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6 MORE Warhammer 40k Rules Everybody Gets Wrong!
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- #Warhammer40k
Going deep on some more of the most commonly messed up Warhammer 40k core rules!
Watch Part 1 here: • 8 Warhammer 40k Rules ...
Explanation of the Cover and Obscuring Rules: • How Cover & Obscuring ...
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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
1:36 Pile In & Consolidating
6:11 Psychic Tests & Modifiers
9:23 Modifying Characteristics
11:13 Placing Strategic Reserves
15:32 Objective Secured
17:30 Fighting First/Last
21:10 Outro
I believe the Judiciar rules specifically also cause a further condition, that’s beyond “fight last” - which is: this unit cannot fight until each of YOUR models have fought in the fight phase. Meaning that this adds this restriction onto the regular fight last.
This would mean a charging unit that gets near a Judiciar would not only lose the “charge” bonus for speed of combat, but would then be “ineligible to fight until ALL of your units have fought” meaning no counter-offensive stratagem to fight next, and no fighting before all of my units.
You are completely correct. Judiciar ability is really strong because of that.
Could part three be about all the convoluted new terrain rules please?
Already got u covered m8
ruclips.net/video/IMgvcmmymdk/видео.html
@@TacticalTortoise Have you done one on the Defence Line rule (barricades, etc)?
You can do some pretty dodgy stuff with those, due to how they extend the range at which units on opposite sides can fight, but not their engagement range. For instance you can walk into combat with a unit on the other side of a barricade without charging.
A fun one is you can deepstrike a mawloc on the opposite side of a barricade to an enemy unit, and have it able to fight in melee that turn.
Best fight first fight last explanation ever.
3 sub phases in the fight phase!
I am ready for part 3 already!
This was theeee best fight first explanation I’ve heard yet.
Cheers!
I think it did not address one of the issues that causes so much of the confusion though, namely eligibility. If you have a unit that always fights first and charged my SW Chapter Master and three other squads of marines that all suffer from a traditional fight last effect, his armor of Russ will simply make you ineligible to be selected to fight no matter what, until all of my models fought, even though they all would fight last. They still all go before the chargers. You cannot even use Counter offensive if I chose to begin somewhere else. The traditional fight last DOES work as you explained it, though. (Check Kyria Draxus‘ datasheet for the old wording and the Judiciar or the Armor of Russ for the new one from the top of my head; kinda sure the SW psychic power and the Whirlwind stratagem also have the new wording)
Interestingly, Saga of the Warrior Born has a traditional fight first effect even in the new codex, so these „phase switching“ effects are still around, as that one „only“ lets you alternate with enemy chargers (thus acting like a built-in counter offensive strat) but it seems important to differentiate „fights last“ and „not eligible to fight until“.
Note that fighting in the charger sub-phase and counting as charged are also not the same, SW e.g. wouldn’t get their shock assault or their +1 to hit, unless they were charged.
Though models in base to base contact with a model cannot move during pile-in/consolidation.
yes
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in all 3 sub-steps listed in the combat phase, it's the non-active player (that is, the player whose turn isn't taking place) the one who choses first the model to fight with. So if I charge unit A with unit B, my opponent can't choose unit A to fight first because charging units fight first. BUT, if character C makes a Heroic Intervention into unit B and character C has a Fight First ability (like the Speed of the Primarch warlord trait for Blood Angels), then my opponent can choose a unit to fight before me, because both the charging unit and the Fight First character are placed on top of the list but it's the non-active player the one who starts.
It's clarified in the "Always Fight First/Last" rules (in the Rare Rules section).
Basically the player whose turn it is gets priority for fighting with units who fight first or fight last, and the inactive player gets to pick the first unit to fight normally.
Great video but I seriously think most of these issues stem from people not owning the rulebook or not reading it.
Or just not liking what it says and trying to find a way to interpret the text in a perverse way. Motivated reasoning plays no small part in some common mistakes.
Meh or it’s rules creep combined with constantly changing the rules from what was printed and sold to players in a gambit to increase model sales under the guise of balancing. Reaver jet bikes come to mind. An obvious typo left up so us goobers would spam buy jet bikes.......suckers. The flesh is weak. The machine is strong. All praise to the Toaster god!!!
Regarding Strategic Reserves, being able to come in "as close as i want" to the enemy actually makes this strategy more appealing! Melta ahoooyyy
Yes, but does this need an update?
Easy way to explain ObSec is that it’s XOR:
Neither have it? Doesnt apply
One person has it? Applies for them
Both people have it? Doesnt apply
Ive been playing obsec wrong... Thank you so much these videos have been awesome!
Glad to help! I definitely played it wrong for a long time too until someone called me out on it. xD
Never knew that about ObSec!!
I usually hate videos begging for Likes at the start, brother - you've earned mine! Thanks so much for this.
Cheers!
Rule question about Fall back and heroic intervention. Say for instance that you choose to fall back from combat with a unit in your turn (that had the heroic intervention ability). During the opponents turn (same Battleround) when a unit then are in range again are you able to heroicly intervene even if you did make a fall back move that battleround. Are you also able to fire overwatch beacause it is no longer your turn? Or does the fall back you did this round prevent you from doing these things this battleround?
Ah warhammer, the only game where solving maths problems will determine life or death of models.
The only game like that... besides every other minis game xD
These videos have been great, best explanation of these rules (also the other 2 videos) that as a new player been trying to get head around
I didn’t realize the tactical tortoise was actually shown in every video. You have a new subscriber
Very helpful thank you.
Glad you found it helpful! :)
The fight last rule makes sense, but what if the rule says something along the lines of "that unit is not eligible to fight this phase until after all eligible units from your army have done so" such as The Armour of Russ relic or Murderous Hurricane psychic power for Space Wolves?
Those are examples of "fight last" effects.
Necrons have special ability " enemy unit is not eligible to fight until all ally units fought" Is it superior to fight first?
Yes it is superior, as the unit is considered not eligible to fight. So any ability that would say, 'select a unit eligible to fight this turn' cannot be used on it.
actually.... Necrons don't have that ability. the Silent King lacks the word "eligible," making it worse than the other ones. If it says you aren't eligible to fight, you can't do anything. Otherwise you can still spend 2cp to interrupt and fight. T-T
@@raze667 check psycomanser harbringer of dispair effect and sauteh crawn relic ;)
@@totktonadafrakc5948 Fair enough. I expect that SK is worded that way because he effects everything in his melee, instead of just one thing.
@@raze667 correction: it does specify eligible.
“Those units cannot fight until all other eligible units from your army have done so”
The key there is “cannot fight” meaning even Counterattack strat cant help.
The characteristics-modification stuff introduces a weird precedent, kind of, which requires a ruling.
Considering that weapon S modifies the S of the model using it, rather than the S of the attack, we now require a ruling on the order in which modifiers that set a using model's S to a constant (most ranged weapons) with stuff like +1S.
The intent seems to be that those +1S buffs shouldn't affect stuff like shooting boltguns and stuff, but this interaction doesn't have any sort of rules support currently.
EDIT: Also, 'reinforcement units' also refers to stuff like summoned units. GW messed up the terminology and called two different things the same.
Very good video.
Allow me a few questions.
Where can I get those models to play 40K on tts?
How do you measure vertical in tts?
How do you measure diagonals in height with tts?
Love the video, so first of, thanks for making it. One thing I can't understand, is the interpretation of reinforcements. I've seen a few battle reports from US/Canda using reinforcement points for units with abilities that grant you "Deep strike" but it's an ability you don't utilize until deployment, and as such can't count as a reinforcement unlike "summon/spawn" that adds more models to your army.
The DS model are already in your army, and as such shouldn't need separate points. page 241 states that reinforcements are units ADDED to the army.
But you use DS as an ability during deployment, and nowhere does it say, that you need to pay separate points for them.
I might be entirely wrong here, but I haven't been able to find the wording you use (aprox. 10:30) about reserves.
But still a solid video, and looking forward to digging in to the rest of the series.
First off, under the Movement phase section of the rules is a bit titled 'Reinforcements'. It specifies there that units using a rule that allows them to set up anywhere not on the battlefield (or embarked) are called Reinforcements - so as Strategic Reserves are not set up on the battlefield, they count for this rule. As for the reinforcement point thing, you are right in that unless the unit is added to your army or replacing a unit that has been destroyed, it does not cost reinforcement points. So units setting up in teleportariums or using jump pack deployment etc do not cost reinforcement points UNLESS they were not part of your army initially and you were able to summon them/add them to your army after the battle begins.
Ignore ap1 & or 2 vs doctrines & other ap increasing effects. From my understanding ignore sets the original ap value from 1or2 to 0 then you add on any ap bonuses from doctrines or additional effects.
That is incorrect. Let's take a bolt rifle with ap1 shooting a salamander. With no doctrine bonus that ap1 is negated by the salamander's own rule and basically he gets to roll his save as if the gun was ap0.
With doctrine bonus that gun goes to ap2 and now the salamander's rule that lets him ignore ap1 is useless. He must roll his save against an ap2 gun so he goes from needing a 3+ to save to now needing a 5+ to save.
@@raedkhalil6937 okay what about Sisters of Battle that can ignore ap1 & ap2. Same bolt rifle shoots at her how does that stack.
A: Doctrine modifies the ap to ap -2, sisters ignore it
Or
B: sisters ignore kicks in turning the bolt rifle to 0 and then doctrines kick in giving it ap-1?
@@tylerambeault1641 It would be scenario A. Bolt Rifle is AP1, doctrine bumps to AP2. Sister ignores AP2, so it's as if the marine shot her with AP0.
If the marine somehow got to AP3, the sister would not ignore it and get hit by an AP3 gun.
@@raedkhalil6937 okay. So if I have that same bolt rifle at that same sister but my 6s to wound got extra ap-1
@@tylerambeault1641 Sister ignores AP1 and AP2. Bolt rifle is AP1 and during doctrine AP2. Let's say doctrine is active.
Bolt rifle shoots 2 shots, first shot is standard. You roll a 6 to wound for the second shot.
First shot will be AP2 which the sister will ignore and treat as AP0.
Second shot is AP3 now and the sister will not ignore it. She now needs to roll a save against AP3.
I’m still confused by damage not spilling over from one model to another.
Just fyi, you can't position models like that out if strategic reserves, believe me, I've tried. Every model must be within 1 inch of your board edge if you are deploying within 9 inches of an enemy unit
Nice video. I've had this debate about the entire charging / fight first / last multiple times and it's even come up at local tournaments. I like the idea of thinking of it as sub phases as it's easier to explain. But also pointed out another step we were doing wrong was for example if a unit charges a Judiciar and he uses his ability to make them fight last then instead of fighting in the "last" sub phase the unit now has both rules as it charged and fights in the middle phase.
I think the Judiciar's ability is different. It makes the unit non-eligible to fight at all, so it would fight after everyone else, even if it charged. It wouldn't fight in the 'middle' phase. In a similar manner to the Armor of Russ.
Judiciar’s Tempormortis and Silent King’s Obsience Generator is different from other fight last sources such as Paroxysm.
Paroxysm allows for Fight First to override it. But Judiciar and SK force the unit to be unable to attack until all other eligible units have fought
These really cleared up a lot for me. For the objective secure rules, what happens if you and your opponent not only both have "objective secure" models on the objective, but also have an equal amount of models on it as well? Does nobody hold the objective or do both hold it?
It's Contested, so no one holds it
@TREVY
@TacticalTortoise
Has anyone corrected the 13 minute mark of strategic reserves?
The excerpt you explained, says at least one model within 1" of board edge,
But rule seems to say today,
Entire unit wholly within 1" of board edge...
Also seems to say that the unit may even be placed inside engagement, so long as respecting the other rules.
Cool video. HormaGAUNT, TermaGANT. Gant vs Gaunt.
Hormagaaant
HoRmAgAaAnT!
HORMAGAAANT!
hrmrgnt
Small caveat for the always fights first/last thing. A model needs to have a rule that states it always fights 1st (regardless of charging) in order to cancel the fight last ability. Pg361 p2 " If a unit is under the effect of both a rule that lets it always fight first in the Fight Phase and a rule that says it cannot be selected to fight until all other units have done so, it instead fights as if neither rule is affecting it" Since charging just gives it "fights first" not "always fights first" a fight last ability would take effect. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd like to get this right as much as the next guy but this is my interpretation.
Following. My only friend I'm playing with at the moment is Necrons and I'd like to make sure we're resolving his Silent King's "fight last" ability correctly
“At the start of the Fight Phase. If there are any enemy units within Engagement Range of Szarekh, then until the end the phase, those units cannot fight until all other eligible units from your army have done so”
All of your Fight First AND Fight Normal units get to fight before the Obscience Generator’d units can fight. Because they become ineligible to even be chosen to fight.
This even prevents things like the Counterattack stratagem
@@Joshobeb For the Silent King ability, the units around the Silent King count as being affected by a 'fight last' ability. But the very important distinction is it does not say they are not eligible to fight. They are still considered eligible but they have been bumped to the back of the line. You would be able to use the Counterattack stratagem for example and if they charged you would be able to fight 'normally'.
This differs from an ability like the Tempormortis from the Judiciar. His ability specifically says the unit is not eligible to fight. By doing so it makes stratagems or abilities like Counterattack unable to be used on these units and even if they charged they will not be able to fight at all until every other eligible unit has done so.
Not sure if in old version but my friend who brought me in to wh40k, he and the entire shop he Plays at thought that "A" is for armor: like a wonds(W) but for "AP"
wtf that obsec rule. it's actually worded that way but I would've never noticed that
What about the warrior born warlord trait for space wolves? It doesn’t say it fights first, it says at the beginning of the fight phase this unit fights if you choose to.
I have the same question, please clarify this point trevi!
@@dracodelcaosherrera6861 I believe all the fight first and fight last abilities, although worded differently, are treated the same.
You forget to mention something, when a unit with the fight first ability, like charged, are under the effect of a fight last and an aditional fight first ability they don't fight normally, but first.
So let's assume Ragnar Blackmane charges with a unit of Wolfguard an opponent unit that has the ability to make them or one of them fight last they still fight first, because Ragnar has the aura ability that every unit, including himself, in it always fight first.
So fight first get canceled by fight last and fight last then again by fight first and so on. This ofc works the other way around, too!
ff < fl < ff / fl < ff < fl
Now the Primaris Rhino just have to get the keyword flying back or Primaris are allowed to enter the older Marine vehicles, like in the lore, to make Ragnar (and Judicar and Bladeguard and ...) useful again ... :D
This has been FAQ'd. They cancel each other out and you fight normally. It doesn't matter how many fight first's. They don't stack.
Strat reserves was so useful!
Re: Strategic Reserves
I've had a lot of people tell me I can't deploy SR units in the corner on turn 3 because my unit is within 6" of their table edge. This does not appear to be what the rule is saying to me but everyone I have seen is playing it that way. Can you help me figure out a way to explain why the rule doesn't work that way? Or am I just wrong?
I guess this is the rule: 'Starting from the third battle round, Strategic Reserve units that arrive can be set up wholly within 6" of any battlefield edge other than the enemy's battlefield edge.' So on the third turn you can set up anywhere within 6'' of any edge, except the opponets edge. Which is to say not within 6'' of the opponets edge but within 6'' of any other. Idk i got confused now too haha. The more you think about it the harder it is. it would be easier if they just clarify...
It refers to what you are measuring from so you are measuring from the side edge . Basically it I sent creating a no go zone it’s describing the edge you walk in from
@@Twotailedkit So the no go zone 6'' of opponets battlefield edge and everything else not within 6'' of any other edge? :)
@@viktorf6798 treat it like this. 1. choose edge allowed so on turn 2 its any part of an edge not touched by opponents deployment zone. move models dierectly in up to 6" from the point of entrance along edge. . on turn three same rules apply except that its all edges except opponents edge itself (not deployment zone) move in as above. so think of corner where opponents edge meets edge that meets it. i choose the edge right next to corner. i move in 6" i may be moving within 6" of the opponents edge, but thats fine as im comming in from an edge that is not the opponents. does that make sense. its hard to explain without diagrams
@@Twotailedkit That is a excellent explanation without diagram :O it clariefied it perfectly! Thank you!
Hey Tortoise, I'd absolutely love your take on this weird interaction / rule ;
"The Sister Superior can additionally be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list, or can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Melee Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun."
Taken from the battle sisters (Adepta Sororitas) datasheet from the latest codex
I'd heard people say, that because of the first part of the sentence, that you can take an additional weapon for melee and still keep your boltgun - but doesn't that contradict the second part of the choice?
Essentially people seem to think you can have an ADDITIONAL melee weapon and boltgun but not A melee weapon and boltgun...
My interpretation of this is that the 'additional melee' refers to already having one melee (so you can take an additional melee to duel wield) and having any melee replaces your boltgun for that sister.
So could you clarify, what does this rule actually mean & what is a legal loadout for a sister superior - thanks!
In this case, taking the melee weapon in addition to the boltgun is fully legal, meaning that most Sisters Superior should be taking a free chainsword. I don't know why the rules give that choice, since it's always better to have the free boltgun in addition to whatever melee option you want. The same is true with Sergeants in IG Infantry Squads, who have the same wording in their wargear options.
The 'or' between the first and second part of the rule is crucial here. It doesn't force you to pick pick the second option. You can equip a melee weapon while keeping your boltgun or you can replace your boltgun for a melee weapon.
The reason GW did this is because of how the kits come and they want people to have legal loadouts from just the stuff in the box. Since you can build your sister superior without the boltgun they want it to be a legal loadout in the game.
@@wjpjr7854 I get the argument but can't see why it's allowed. As per the second part of the choice, taking a melee replaces a boltgun but why would giving you another melee not mean you lose your boltgun - one choice contradicts the other ?
@@wjpjr7854 And just to caveat - the IG don't have the same wording. Theirs is a lot more concise!
"The Sergeant may replace their laspistol with an item from the Ranged Weapons list.
• The Sergeant may take a chainsword or a power sword."
@@bdmango764 Oh interesting. Thank you for the correction.
Regarding fight sequence, unless I am mistaken, ordering starts with the player whose turn it is NOT, i.e. The inactive player. Meaning, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that if unit A charges unit B, and unit B has fight first, unit B may fight before unit A.
Active player chooses the first unit to fight during the 'fight first' and 'fight last' steps of the phase, but the other player chooses first in the 'fight normally' step.
@@TacticalTortoise where can I find this written? Because what I read in the rulebook (§1 pg. 228) contradicts that
Units that gain deepstrike from deploying cannot trigger that ability if they arent deployed during the deployment step.
@TacticalTortoise great video. I wanted to clarify the Obsec rule though. The way you explained the rule in your video (I.e. just a binary on or off and then it goes to the number of total models) would mean that rules that make obsec models count as 2 obsec models each would be meaningless. That fact that these rules exist (and are becoming increasingly common) makes me think that obsec does depend on whoever has the most obsec models near the objective. What do you think?
They just count as 2 models for the purposes of determining who has more models on the objective.
You actually made a mistake with the fight first/fight last segment. Fight last abilities only cancel Fight first abilities and charging is NOT a fight first ability.
Specific wording from the rare rules section: If a unit can always fight first is made to fight last, it fights as if not affected by either rule.
This means if a unit that charged is made to fight last (without having a fights first ability), it fights last (goes to the 3rd sub-phase, not the second).
Enjoyed the video.
40k has a lot of rules, many of them complicated beyond belief sometimes.
Keep in mind that rule states "*rule* that always let's it fight first", not ability. Charging is a rule that let's units fight first (the fight phase rule *literally* state that verbatim), so it would cancel out fight last abilities.
@@TacticalTortoise But it specifically says "ability". Having successfully charged is NOT an ability, it's a state.
Also, as you said charging let's you fight first but fights last only cancels out with *ALWAYS* fights first. Charging is only *situationally* fights first.
Probably doesn't need a whole video but I have had so many people miss use the command reroll Strat since 9th changed it
If i have a infiltrator scuad whit this ability:
Omni-scrambler: Enemy units that are set up on the battlefield as reinforcements cannot be set up within 12" of this unit.
And une unit of Interceptor use his rule that say: once per battle, instead of moving this unit normally in the Movement phase, you can choose for them to make a teleport shunt. At the end of the Movement phase, remove all of the models in the unit from the battlefield, then immediately set them up anywhere that is more than 9" from any enemy models.
They shoud be placed more than 9 or more than 12? and plz if is more than 12, where can I read about that ability counts as reinforcements?
THX 4 all!!
So I need to end my pile in/consolidate move closer to the enemy than I was before.
Does that mean I can't circle around an enemy when I'm already touching its base?
(can't go from 0" to 0")
Hey was wondering if you could go in depth about objectives like how to secure an objective? Are troops the only one to hold them or can other units do that? I'm confused lol
ruclips.net/video/f24q4NWdj4A/видео.html
:)
Thank you this helps alot
Hey I had another question about the saviour protocols for tau drones specifically when it stats the attack sequence ends what does that mean exactly? Thank you for the helpful videos too :)
What is your take on the ignone -x ap when you have x ap but +y ap from another rule? For example say you shoot s -1AP weapon into a model that has a rule ignore -1AP but you have a rule that gives you additional -1 AP. Do you have -1 or -2 AP in the end? And as a theoretic extension what if the additional ap requires you to have -1 ap already?
Pretty sure they’ve FAQed this. Any ignore xAP abilities look at the modified AP. Not the original AP characteristic.
You look at the modified AP value:
Let's take a bolt rifle with ap1 shooting a salamander. With no doctrine bonus that ap1 is negated by the salamander's own rule and basically he gets to roll his save as if the gun was ap0.
With doctrine bonus that gun goes to ap2 and now the salamander's rule that lets him ignore ap1 is useless. He must roll his save against an ap2 gun so he goes from needing a 3+ to save to now needing a 5+ to save.
there have been some arguments about how fight first/last works. people there seem to make a distinction between 'not eligible to fight' and 'not eligible to be selected to fight'. some people vehemently argue that the latter breaks the fight first/last rule and always fights last regardless of whether it can fight first or not. I think regardless of specific wording, the RAI is about as clear as you can get out of GW.
also, how doe's interrupting work with regards to fight first/last?
It's an open question rn; IMO not being able to fight prevents you from fighting even if you've been selected thanks to CA, but it def needs clarification.
So apparently it's been faq'd
*Pages 361-362 - Rare Rules, Always Fight First/Last
Add the following paragraph to the end of this Rare Rules entry:
‘Note that the Counter-offensive Stratagem requires you to select
a unit that is eligible to fight. This means that if a unit is under
the effects of a rule that says that it is not eligible to fight until
after all other eligible units have done so, you will not be able to
select that unit to use the Counter-offensive Stratagem.’
I love that turtle photo, made my day
I'll let him know you approve :P
So, when arriving from Strategic Reserves on turn 3, do i have to stay 6" away from the enemy battlefield edge (as in not within 6" of the enemy battlefield edge?)
Hello mate. Can you deepstrike turn 1? I was reading the rules, and it only says that you can do it during the reinforcements step on one of your movement phases. Does this include turn 1? As I habe been playing that they are only able to turn 2 onwards (except for drop pods where it specifically says it can drop on turn 1)
Default rule is yes you can deploy turn 1. But, Matched Play Eternal War, Matched Play Grand Tornament Pack 2020 and Narative Play Crusade have the turn 2 restriction built in. (I Don't know on the new Malstrom of War from WD though) So from my understanding, it is really only available to be used in Open War game.
During open or narrative play, yes. In the various matched play mission packs, you would have to read the rules under 'declare reserves and transports'. For example, the Eternal War mission pack (The one in the core rule book) says "In Eternal War missions, Strategic Reserve and Reinforcement units can never arrive on the battlefield in the first battle round. Any Strategic Reserve or Reinforcement unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round counts as having been destroyed".
Thanks appreciate it!
Can fight last abilities stack? Say my swarmy charges in but was hit by whatever that artillery that makes things fight last and my opponent space wolf player uses armor of russ. Does that put swarmy back into the fight last phase?
That turtle is new Votann unit?
With the new fights last rule saying you're not eligible to fight until all others are done, dose that interact differently than the older rules that stated it fights last.
Not really; there's an open question regarding whether or not units that "fight last" can interrupt use Counter Offensive, but most events rule that you can't.
@@TacticalTortoise I believe that is in the faq they put out. And it dose block the use of the interupt strat.
Definitely got your pile in demo wrong, bearing in mind the following applies. i) The Vets are both in the same unit, ii) the unit declared a charge on the Gaunt only iii) The Genestealer is either a separate unit from the Gaunt or is not in coherency with the Gaunt and either model should have been removed at the end of their turn as per coherency rules. iv) In any case the second Vet should also be "piling in" on the Gaunt". (You did not state that the charge had been declared against both units or that the Vets were separate units and thus the "pile in move" was not governed by proximity of the Genestealer the Vet did not charge. You should have used two Gaunts in coherency but one an inch behind the other to demo "pile in" obligations.
So basically you confused that one even more.
Whether a fighting unit declared another unit as its charge target has zero bearing on how it piles in/consolidates. Every model just moves towards the enemy model that is closest to it; that's it.
Nice one trevvy! 👍
Thanks 👍
When can I declare our weapons are useless And fall back from combat?
During your movement phase, if a unit from your army is in combat with an enemy unit, you must choose to have it either Remain Stationary (does not move this phase) or Fall Back (move up to your movement characteristic, so long as you end the move outside of combat). This means that you can only fall back during your movement phase, and cannot advance at the same time, unless the units/models falling back have a rule that says they can.
@@wjpjr7854 Hahaha, I think he was joking. "Our Weapons are Useless" was a rule in older editions, where the "Always Wound on a 6" wasn't a thing. If you literally could not wound your foe (eg a Space Marine punching a Wraithlord), you could declare that and fall back from combat voluntarily.
Though your earnest response is very clear and much appreciated regardless!
I would love to have you as an opponent, I wouldn't have to worry about screwing up the rules
We play all the time in the Discord! xD
was the genestealer declared as the target of the attack too? before the pile-in move? or was he just standing there, minding his own business, when, suddenly, out of nowhere, a VanVet dropped on his ass? (and dropped his ass)
Does any of the rules here (or the 1st video) has been FAQ? If so do you plan an update?
In your next vid on this subject can you add an addendum to the turn 3 Strategic Reserves that not being able to choose your opponents board edge does not mean you can not use the side edge to measure your 6" from and still deploy models within 6"of their edge on the corners.
Also can you cover the diference between fight last and ineligible to fight. They are two very different things.
On the whole modifiers calculation; last edition is worded exactly the same as this edition. When they FAQed it last edition it felt like someone was replying without checking the rules and going on what they knew to be true from earlier editions. I sent emails pointing this out but nothing was done. Didn't bother me though. But this is an example of people asking for FAQs on rules that are clear in the rulebook but we are use to them being diferent that we assume something is wrong or missing, so we ask for FAQs. Obsec is also in a similar position.
Thanks for the comment! :)
IIRC the modifiers were the same in 8e, but when they were calculated was not - I believe the 8e core book was FAQ'd so that base strength was modified first, then the same done with attack strength (so 2x Str weapons would double other Str buffs), but tbh it's been a while and none of those files exist any more so I don't remember xD
Not that it really matters either way tbf
@@TacticalTortoise
Its been brought up to me recently, that the Strat reserve rule states.
The entire unit must be wholly within 1", in order to break the 9 inch bubble... (but also in such case, the unit may be deployed even in engagement with the enemy)
I learned so many things, more than I expected
Love these videos, really help me learn the game again.
Now for my Noob question, Does Dmg distribution differ between unit classes in melee for eg does Mortarion if he was fighting a troop unit of ten marines would I allocate wounds to just one target or does the dmg carry over?? Same question applies to say a Deathshroud terminator and plague marine etc
Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question.
PS keep up the good work 👍
Damage does not spill over from one model onto another, unless the weapon explicitly mentions that it does. An attack that does 5 damage against a unit of 10 space marine intercessors would only deal the 2 damage required to kill the first marine, with the rest being lost. In Death Guard specifically, the Flail of Corruption had a rule that let it do this in 8th edition, but no longer does since the 9th edition codex was released.
If you want to deal overflow damage like this, mortal wounds are the main way to do this, as each mortal wound is a separate 1-damage wound.
In 40k damage does not carry over unless specific abilities say they carry over.
Example: Mortarion fights a unit of 10 marines. Each marine has 2 wounds.
Let's say Mortarion hits and wounds 7 times and the marines fail all their saves.
Let's also say Mortarion does 4 damage per hit. So 4x7 is 28dmg against the marine's 10x2 20 wounds.
If damage carried over those marines are super dead.
But since in 40k damage does not carry over, each hit does its full damage to one model.
So the first model takes 4dmg, only has 2 wounds and dies.
Repeat for each hit that went through and you have 7 dead marines and 3 are left alive (regretting ever getting close to the daemon primarch).
Damage from a single attack does not carry over, however, every hit he does is an attack, so in your case with Mortarion if you use his "Eviscerating blow" you have 7 attacks, so even if all of your attacks go through you can at most kill 7 modells.
@@wjpjr7854 thank you, all responses have cleared this up for me. Totally understand it now.
@@raedkhalil6937 thank you, all responses have totally made it understandable now
I'm a bit confused about the reinforcements step to be honest, It says after you have put a unit from reserve into play, the reinforcements step immediately stops, so how I interpret it is that you are not able to do anything else after that unit has been placed on the battlefield, except for placing another unit from reserve.
So you are not able to do any stratagems/abilities in that step on that unit unless it says so, like the necron stratagem: prismatic dimensional breach.
And stratagems that say at the end of the movement phase have to be done before the reinforcement step.
But now some people tell me you are still able to do actions which is at the end of the movement phase, so i'm not sure anymore, I hope you could answer this if possible.
The Reinforcements Step takes place during the Movement Phase.
End of Movement Phase abilities take place *after* the reinforcement step ends.
because in the rules it says after having set up all your reinforcement units, the movement phase ends and immediately go to the psychic phase, making me think you are not able to do anything anymore, but thanks, love your vids, i also play tyranids
Well if you charge and enemy then pile in away from it to a unit you did not charge you shouldnt be able to fight it because you cannot target it only the ones you have charghed/heoircally intervened.
For the purposes of Strategic Reserves, how are battlefield edges determined when deployment zones are in corners, such as the Sweep and Clear mission? Are you unable to place SR within your enemy's zone since those edges are a corner, or do you only count the long/short edge?
It says which battlefield edge belongs to each player on the mission map
@@TacticalTortoise Damn. Should kick myself in the ass for that one.
Mortal wounds makes my brain hurt. Somethings stop them, others don’t and it’s not completely clear most of the time.
Even if 4 mortal wounds are applied; they are applied one at a time. Easiest to imagine them all as separate “attacks” which is why they carry between models and while things like FNP can stop them, -1D effects don’t because you can’t reduce damage below 1
Can you comment some on moveing in to difficult terrain and then in the chargephase charge Out of your difficult terrain in to a new difficult ground. For example chargeing your Skorpekh destroyers from one crater in to a squad of marines in another crater 7inch away. How long charge do you need? There are 9 inch between the models. You have two Skorpekh destroyers in one crater and the marines are standing in the middle of another one.
Do you get a -4 penalty for moving thru/touch two different grounds or do you not get the minus for moving in the terrain where you alertast are standing at the start of your charge phase?
Difficult Ground applies the penalty on a per-terrain-feature basis, so moving from one piece of difficult terrain to another would subtract 2" for each feature.
Pretty rare that that comes up tho; board are generally more interesting when identical terrain is distributed more widely over the area.
So if a unit has fight first and charged but also had the fight last effect placed on them, do they then fight in the middle phase? It's not like the charging and fight first "stack" and the fight last only removes one? Just having one of them moves you to the first sub phase and then anything else moves you out of it back to middle?
Now here’s a question for unit that has high volume wargear options and I’m shooting into a troop unit with the HQ unit behind it. Can I place all shots on the troop unit and the last shot on the HQ?
I have a question on overwatch
I am being charged by 10 bezerkers
If I pay the CP to overwatch (lets say aggressors for instance) and I wipe out the entire squad of bezerkers (or they fail to make the charge distance). If the same squad is then charged again by a different squad are they still able to overwatch because they were selected and "available to shoot overwatch in the charge phase" ?
Would love to get your opinion on this and any rules clarification as well.
Love the vids. Keep em coming
No. You can overwatch against ONE unit that is selected to charge them.
@5:05 the consolidating out of combat. Isn’t it base to base with the genestealer, Therefor not able to move? Or in the game base to base literal and if you are .1 mm away from someone’s base, you are able to move, since your are in engagement range not base to base?
Does anyone know what nihilikh dynasty keyword is, I think they left out the dynasty keyword rules out of the book.
If you charge with a single unit, then fight last gets applied to it, does your opponent choose the first unit to fight?
As I understand the rules you fight with all charging/fight first units then opponent picks who fights first in the mid fight phase.
Fighting with slanesh special rule? 2 Marine units charges 2 slanesh unit. Marine unit one attacks then slanesh then pay 2 cp for interior for 2nd slanesh unit fights before 2 marine unit. Is that correct
Got a question about "Model uses full wounds profile" types of strats. Say you hit a vehicle with the void dragon power, that causes said vehicle to be considered at half wounds until your next turn. Do you use half the maximum wounds or does the strat overrule the power?
I would imagine does divide it by half, but then when the opponent uses the stratagem it would just knock it to full wounds, the PEMDAS rule I think.
So I was reading into the Rare Rules section of the Core book earlier, and I found an interesting rule that I think a lot of people don’t know about.
Attacker’s Priority
Now, this isn’t to do with the fight phase, but instead has to do with which rules take precedence. The example they gives is simple, always hit on a 2+? (Say for example, a Vindicare that hasn’t moved) and attacking something like a Culuxes that treats incoming attacks as 6+ to hit? Attacker has priority, you’re hitting on 2’s.
Now with the Drukhari codex available for pre-order, this brings an interesting thing to light. Poisoned weapons, in particular Relic versions or Stinger weapons, that always wound on 2+ (except vs Vehicles and Titanic)
This ignores Inner Circle, this ignores Transhuman, this ignores Arcane Genetic Alchemy. They force rolls of 1-3 to always fail. But you always wound on 2+. Thus, Attacker’s Priority, you’re wounding on 2’s
While you're technically correct; the abilities you mentioned all have clauses that state they override Attacker's Priority.
@@TacticalTortoise ah yes; i forgot about the “irrespective of any abilities the attacking weapon or model may have” well that’s annoying
Can your opponent have more than 1 table edge in some missions?
Ill give you a weird rule interaction, a character and a 3 man unit are in combat with an enemy unit. The enemy unit in their turn has pistols, and is in base ontact with both the charcter and the 3 man unit. can they shoot the character, or does look out sir say they have to shoot the 3 man squad? Riddle me this bat man
It would depend from model to model. Each model that is closer to the character than they are to the 3-man unit would be able to shoot the character with their pistols.
If you have a special scenario where one model is base to base with both the character and the 3-man unit then the owner of that model gets to choose which enemy model is closer to his model.
those tyranid models are so smol
I think they mostly just look small cuz most of the TTS marine minis are 25mm based guys scaled up so their bases are 32mm.
@@TacticalTortoise i think thats part of it, but the physical models also overhang their bases way more. hormagaunts wouldnt look misplaced on an AoS cavalry base
So this might be a dumb question (sorry if it is) but full re-rolls...how exactly do they work? If I read the BRB correctly, they are performed before any modifiers. Is that correct? Thus a "Gaant" (died laughing btw) w/ WS 4+ and + 1 to hit rolls a dice roll of a 3; they would have to re-roll the dice results of 3s as it's a failed roll, correct?
I ask, as I have seen some battle reports re-roll (in my example above) only the 1s and 2s.
It will depend heavily on the wording of the reroll ability.
In previous editions the wording was reroll 'failed' hit rolls. On top of that rules say you reroll dice before any modifiers are applied to them. That meant that in old editions if you hit on 3+ and have a -1 to hit you would be able to reroll a 1 and a 2 but not a 3 even though a 3 would end up missing once modifiers are applied.
GW has been moving away from that recently and now rewords the abilities in the game to just say reroll hit rolls so you can reroll whatever you want. The issue is not all abilities have been updated yet (and some will never be updated such as models in Legends). So depending on the reroll ability you will either be able to reroll all hits or only some failed hits because of modifiers.
This video is wrong. It treats charging as a "fight first ability", which it is NOT. Selecting chargers to fight first is just the way the rules are sequenced, just like Psychic comes before Shooting. And that is at the heart of all these debate (ignoring people who just didn't read the rare rules section for a moment).
And look, I understand why people woul be confused, GW has not made it explicitely clear. And the fact that GW has not stepped in to clarify this via FAQ is just mystifying to me. At this point they just should bring back initiative and be done with it, but that is not going to happen until at least the next edition, so until then, they should clarify this via FAQ. The best thing we can do, is write them about it
The sequencing rules single out "unit(s) under the effects a rule that always lets (them) fight first in the Fight" (direct quote), and the charging rules state "units that made a charge move this turn fight first in the fight phase" (another direct quote).
So while I agree it could be slightly clearer, it's pretty apparent to me the rules were meant to interact in this way.
ok, so I had a weird interaction i would like a ruling on unit a and unit b charge unit c , they both succeed unit a, kills unit c ,and consolidate to the next closest unit. unit d, unit b also consolidates to the next unit - ( unit D ) and pulls them in engagement range can unit b fight unit d?
No. On a turn that a unit charges, it is only allowed to allocate attacks against units that it declared as charge targets.
It's allowed to pile-in and consolidate into other units, but can't make attacks against them.
One question I have on adding and multiplying strength characteristics is auras of add 1 to strength. The unit before they charged had 5 strength because of the aura. So would it still be strength 9, which I believe it is, or strength 10 because at the time the unit charged they were technically Strength 5.
You simply follow the order as described in the book. Division first, multiplication next, addition and then substraction.
The unit is S4 and charges with a power fist/thunder hammer. They are within a +1S aura when they fight.
If we follow the order described in the book the unit will have 4×2+1=9S
Not a ruling question but what do you think about a turn based digital game that emulates tabletop warhammer? Like TTS but actually designed for warhammer. It would get people into the game that the physical hobby is too expensive for. Also you could make the game a lot faster since you dont have to do a lot of the tracking yourself, move things irt ect.
Maybe do it for kill team if the big lists would be too much idk I think this is a huge untapped market.
I don't think GW would ever launch such a project; would cut into their core business model (selling overpriced plastic kits) way too much.
best video EVER! well done!
What happens if you have 2 "fight first" (figth first abilities + charge) on your models and 1 "fight last" ? Are you still in the "fight first" categories?
And the other way arround, what happens if your opponent stacked 2 "fight last" on your charging unit?
I would personally say the number of abilities would not end up mattering. The fight first and fight last abilities would cancel each other out, no matter how many of each is stacked on that unit.
But I would not be too surprised if I ended up being wrong. That's how I'd play it personally though.
In the Fight first/ last section, the 3 sub sections switch between starting with the active player and not active player, shouldnt it always be "Starting with the player whose turn is not taking place"?
No; the inactive player only picks first for units "fighting normally"
@@TacticalTortoise is there a clarification on this, as core rules only state the above quoted, and would seem to apply to the whole fight phase. And this would have a massive impact on how we play with heroic intervention
@@TacticalTortoise ive found the problem. Ive never played 8th ed so had no idea about the rule where charging units can only attack units they declared a charge against, this rule is no longer written in 9th so now im even more confused
modifying characteristics a have particular weird case, which is Logan Grimnar's Axe when using one hand wield.
What's weird about it? It adds 2 to your Str for those attacks.
@@TacticalTortoise the number of attacks. Since the rule says Logan strikes twice per attack, it makes the multiplication after the addition of any additional attacks such as shock assault
@@user-zc5xv5cd2w what's complicated about it? Let's say Grimnar has an attack characteristic of 4 and he has S4.
He charges and decides to use one hand wield.
Thanks to shock assault he gets 5 attacks and then the one hand wield turns each of those attacks into 2 swings for a total of 10 attacks. Then you swing all those attacks a 4+2 to S6.
@@raedkhalil6937 I never said it was complicated. I said it was particular weird case because I constantly had to explain to people why my Logan would add attacks first and make multiplication later on hits
@@user-zc5xv5cd2w ah I see what you mean now. It's a potential point of confusion for newer players that would think it falls under the same process as calculating Strength.
Can you perils on a double 1 while playing Custom Craftworld trait “children of prophecy”?
Whats that program you used to demonstrate?
Regarding the pile in, Isn't there a rule that says if you were in engagement range with a unit that has models moved in a such away where you are no longer in melee combat, you still get to fight that unit? I don't have the book in hand but I remember reading this.
That is only if you charged that turn. If you did not charge then you can only fight if you are within engagement range. If you charged, even if the unit you were in engagement range is not there you will still be able to pile in, fight any units you declared for that charge and then consolidate.
Raed Khalil is correct. I have started making use of this more recently and it is rage inducing but legal. I have had opponent's immediately quit games when I have done this though, so just consider that, although it is entirely within the rules, some people will consider it cheating. I have had the same thing with using 'look Out Sir' to protect characters in engagement range with a vehicle/monster that tries to shoot them, where you have another unit also in engagement range but closer. Rules as written that works, but try telling that to some players . . .
@@raedkhalil6937 but according to what has been shown in this video, if you have been charged and they pile in and consolidate away from the unit that has been charged. The unit that has been charged can no longer pile in or fight because they are not in engagement range of anyone.
@@annorgothica7771 Yes that is correct. The distinction is between units that were charged and units that charged. If a unit charged, it gets to pile and consolidate, no matter if units are within engagement range of it when it is activated to fight. If a unit was charged, then it can only pile in and consolidate if it is within engagement range.
@@smritivipin Are you making attacks even if the charging unit is outside engagement? If so, thats not correct. A charging unit can always pile in and consolidate but only attack if within engagement after pile in.
Gotta question for you; when a ability confers the " May move as though it's the movement phase" effect on a unit, does that allow that unit to make a Advance or is it only allowed to move its normal movement (plus any modifiers)? I.e. Adepta Sororitas Dominion Vanguard ability.
Out-of-phase movement is always considered a Normal Move unless the ability specifies otherwise
what if you both have the exact same amount of models with objective secured on the point? (eg: me 3x custodes // friend 3x custodes). Do you not score or score in your own turn?
Neither one scores because neither one controls it.
The way the strength modifiers work in the example you gave sounds a bit unintuitive. The way I thought about it was that the imperium sword trait makes your character stronger, and then the weapon doubles your character strength. Understand now that’s not how it works, but intuitively it sounds like it should work that way.
Like the imperium sword isn’t really a modifier, instead it just increases his base stat, and thats the base you should use for modifiers on top of.
Worked like that in 8th, 9th changed it to how it was explained in the video
@@alexandersmith1264 Ye understand how it works, but I just think it the way it used to work sounds like it makes more sense.
Okay: super specific one. How does stooping dive work into a fight last power?
You fight "normally"
Hey, great vid.
So if i have a unit that charged and also has the rule to fight first on top of that. But it also has a debuff to fight last on them. What happens? Does one fight first gets canceled out by the fight last, but the second lets the unit still fight first?
This is a good question; as far as I can see, fight first abilities (inc. charging) don't 'stack', so if you have *one or more* fight first abilities active and get hit by a fight last, you still fight "normally".
This may change with an FAQ or clarification in the future, tho.
Do reinforcements follow some of the rules as strategic reserves?
The other way around; strategic reserves follow the Reinforcement rules but not all Reinforcements are strategic reserves.
I am very curious about how exactly one should settle D3 damage with attacks/shots; do we roll each d3 to determine a damage value for each hit/shot, or do you roll one d3 and use that value for all attacks and shots?
You roll 1D3 for each shot/hit.
Example: Unit A shoots, hits and wounds 4 times against unit B. Unit B fails all saves.
Unit B has 3 models with 2 wounds each. You roll each D3 damage hit one at a time.
First hit: roll 1dmg
Second hit: roll 3 dmg
Third hit: roll 2dmg
Fourth hit: roll 1dmg
In this scenario, the first hit does one wound on the first model. He only has one wound left. The next damage of 3 becomes a bit wasted since the model only had one wound left and dies. Second model takes 2dmg and dies, third model takes 1dmg and lives.
From 4 shots you would expect to kill all 3 enemy models in that unit but because of the way D3 dmg rolls are made you can end up with this scenario where the unit survives.
Damage is rolled after saves. Generally you roll all hits, wounds, and saves(assuming the save profile is uniform) then roll the d3 damage either individually, or a number of d3 that could theoretically kill the target (roll 1d3 on a made with 3 or fewer remaining wounds, 2d3 on a model with 4-6, etc)
Each attack is rolled separately. If you have 3 unsaved wounds that are D3 damage each, you would roll the dice one at a time to determine the damage dealt by each attack.
You roll a seperate D3 for each attack that got through. Because in theory, all of the attack rolls in 40k are rolled one after the other, its just a common thing to roll multiple attacks together if there is no reason to roll them "slow". An example for when to roll slow would be if you have damage D3 and the enemy unit your attacking has models with 3 wounds,. You have to roll one D3 after the other because if you for example roll: 3, 3, 1, 1, 1, then you kill 3 models, but if you roll: 1, 1, 3, 1, 3, then you only kill 2 modells, even though you rolled exactly the same numbers, only in a different order, since damage isnt carried over usually.
Thanks everyone!