Competing rule sets aside, I'm constantly in awe of the amazing quality of your table set ups. As a life long scale modeler, I most enjoy building the terrain and equipment used in miniature wargames. Playing with them is just icing on the cake for me.
Thanks, Richard! It's such a visual hobby and the modeling element is as important (for us anyway) as the game itself. It's far easier to enjoy a wargame when it looks amazing and draws you in. That applies to ANY game, WW2 or otherwise.
Great review again Gents. I’ve been waiting for this one for a while, the more exposure this excellent game gets, the better. I share the same reservation about the range dice, but if you organise your dice in separate pots for the various units I find it’s not too onerous. I’ve also found that it’s easy to adapt scenarios from other games such as Battlegroup.
Tony made up some very nice, self contained "dice boxes" that have the appropriate assortment of dice inside, each in different colors to help visually see the difference between range, ammo, and shooting dice. So there are definitely ways to help manage the dice.
A particularly excellent Review. I no longer play since Decades, but just listening to you guys discussing the rules takes me back to that time & the sheer enjoyment of it!
Fantastic game, have been using these rules for years. If you can create custom unit cards that have pictures of the dice needed it helps. We have adapted it to modern and Vietnam etc here in Scotland. I do wish it had a bigger following.
Hey Little Wars, An excellent video(s) idea would be you guys reviewing your favorite places for different scales and types of miniatures. IE: What companies do you like to purchase 15mm ww2 from and why? What companies do you like to purchase naval vessels and why? 6mm Roman's, etc. Maybe even a mini series. I think people like myself who really want to get into the hobby would immensely benefit from this knowledge. I think I can speak for many in saying we trust your opinions on the matter greatly because you all are well-seasoned in the hobby. I know these suggestions are sometimes covered in the intros of your videos, but it may also be beneficial to have these reviews in one locality.
Love your reviews, format is great and the reviews valuable and informative. You created a sale, ordered a copy of Fireball Forward, seems as 3rd edition is available. .
This is what Squad Leader tried to do, but so much less elegantly. Same excitement playing this as when I first opened that Squad Leader box. My absolutely favorite WWII rules. Another plus on support would be the listing in either the scenario books or online, of how many figures and vehicles (and types) you need. Really helps with budgeting. Another plus for the beginner is the mini campaign (sort of) in the rulebook and a good selection of scenarios from different theaters.
There are certainly a number of rules and systems that mix dice types, so nothing new there. The way the dice interact here in Fireball is somewhat unique, particularly with the range die.
Thank you for the great review. I have run FBF tutorial games at HMGS cons using the Pouppeville scenario from the rule book several times. It doesn’t take long for players to get used to rolling the right collection of dice. You did a nice job of describing the three factors addressed by a dice roll: weapon type, base range and “effective” range. The player rolls dice for the weapon type and a range die. You get a +1 to your weapon’s “to hit” roll if the distance is inside the number of inches on the range die. Simple. And that red die? Just roll a six. Do you gain anything from inserting a “multiple probabilities mechanic” in to the fire resolution phase? I think so. 1 you get the capacity for weapon differentiation which should please the “rivet counters” as you call them. And 2 you increase the player’s tension in making the shot, which heightens the emotional investment in the gamed situation. And that’s why I really like FBF.
Great review session. I will pick-up a copy of Fireball Forward to go along with my Crossfire rules. So yes, you have successfully helped "expand the community"...lol...good job guys. Mitch
Thanks for putting this up guys! I tend to put stuff on the fb page, and FbF is my favorite WW2 company game by far. I couldn't find the scenario for the Foy written up anywhere, only Crossfire, so would love to see it if possible. Either way, great review, and thank you for these continuing vids!
The scenario is the same as the Crossfire scenario, but has notes about the turn length and what adjustments are needed. Same scenario, same OOB, same objectives!
The D & D comment really cracked me up. It reminded me of my orange bag filled with every kind of dice known to man - and then some known only to orcs!
Nice review. I love that we have two different oppinions about the rules here. There are so many rules out there which are too difficult for myself to understand. I hate to roll too many dice and I use rules in English although I don't speak the language very well.
I’ve looked at these rules a few times but have never tried them. They do look interesting but I have to agree about the amount of dice rolling required. Perhaps it may be with taking another look.
I would love to see you guys review Five Men in Normandy/Five Men at Kursk, two very similar games by Nordic Weasel Games - both squad level-ish skirmishes with campaign rules, Kursk is just kind of a more "chrome"-y version of Normandy - even though it seems that such small scale skirmishes aren't really you guys' thing. Personally, it's one of my favourite rulesets. Keep up the good work!
A small comment on the dice; it's not appliance sciencestry. Roll under the range on that particular range dice and you get a plus 1 to your chance to hit. If you roll two hit dice and roll under on both, even better - +2. No stress really. The real reason for these dice seems to be the need to eradicate the cheese approach of moving to x.01" distance so someone can claim they are out of 'effective range'. Also models the chance that the target is ducking and dukeing in and out of cover and maybe you don't get an effective bead - or maybe you are a bunch of Sgt York's that day. Really, there are not that many weapon systems on the table that you are constantly looking up how many dice to roll either. Takes about 5 mins prep time to print them off or write them down. There's about 6 possible modifiers so no complicated tables. 6 white 6 red 1 blue or black D6, a D&D cube of dice, and bob's your uncle. You could easily drop the mechanic and still play, but contrary to Greg's assertion, I think this is a great mechanic in the game that models the element of luck and gives an element of "Schiesse, Amerikaner 150m, feuer... Verdammte Schwachkoepfe- Ost Front fuer Euch!!!
I have FF (2nd Ed), but haven't tried it yet. As you talked about, there are mechanics, particularly the dice, that seem too "fiddly". Now I'll admit as I get older, my threshold of tolerating "fiddly-ness" goes down, but that's where I am right now. At some point, I may give it a try. PS: I did play D&D, so I can tell the difference between a D12 and a D20!
I believe the publisher switched to Amazon for fulfillment, which is now perfect bound instead of the old spiral binding (our copies of the game are several years old)
I do agree with Greg on this, a consistant mechanic would be much easier to follow. After the first few editions D&D also changed so now, no matter how complicated the rules, the basic dice mechanic remains the same throughout.
Hey Tony, have you ever been up to Wargamers Hobby Shop in Northern Virginia during 80's to early 90s (dad owned that shop). You just look so familiar. Maybe I met you and Bill Rutherford back in the day at one of the HMGS Conventions or the The Little Soldier Shop in Alex, Va. Joe
One of my pet peeves as an old timer playing with rules that were in mimeo, I don't understand the hangup on "presentation". If B&W art work makes the publication cheaper for me then full color does - Well Great! Excellent examples of play (drawn , not photographed) are what constitutes a great presentation. My concept of a great Presentation is: Great drawn examples, a great QRS, use of charts rather that run-on sentences to describe unit functionality (apologies to Phil Barker - give that man a comma), a useful index ( one that goes down at least 2, maybe 3 levels), a table of contents and as an extra - a detailed description of one turn played out on the minimum of one scenario given in the rule book! I have no problem in buying additional books of scenario, but especially like them as a PDF. My $.05 worth! Dick Bryant That's my name, not my personality
Your opinion is worth more than a nickel, Dick! Your experience in Wargaming layouts far surpasses anyone else commenting (including ours!). The full color vs BW debate is very valid. I’d rather pay another $10 for color, but a BW option that’s cheaper appeals to plenty of gamers I think
Thanks for an excellent review. I'm with Gregg on the dice mechanics. Sounds like a better game than Crossfire. One minor thing - all the PDF/print stuff and cost info would have been better at the start of the review, I think, as it really comes under presentation.
We haven't tried it yet, but there's a popular WW2 game called Battlegroup that is basically the same scale as Flames of War and I've heard of a lot FOW players who graduated on to this as a more advanced game. Of course, all of your FOW minis and basing would work perfectly well here with Fireball Forward or with Crossfire, too! Just a smaller scale with only about a company or reduced company per side.
@@LittleWarsTV The only annoyance here is Battlegroup has individual casualty tracking. It's my big problem with that game, it can't decide if it wants to be a platoon-level detailed oriented game down to tracking your damn tank ammo or a large scale one like FoW.
I have been playing FoW with Bolt Action activation dice, instead of I Go You Go, and added Opportunity Fire for units that have not fired yet. I really hate watching tanks move side-by-side from cover across an open area exposing their side armor back to cover without any reaction from the other side.
On the subject of terrain. I've developed the opinion that any WW2 (or later) game featuring a Battalion or smaller is either located in the desert, or requires all your terrain (and more). Ain't nobody got time to stand in the open when those MG42s open up.
This makes me want to send in my game for review. Haha We wrote it as high schoolers in 2014. I wonder if some high school basement rules would stand up to these lads.
Great review, great game. Liked the review so much I went out to Amazon to buy it. Word of warning though, it is print on demand and it doesn't come with a spiral spine like in the review :(.
Will you guys ever try & review "Arc of Fire" rules? One book. No supplements. Covers the entire 20th Century. I bought copies for $20 from Brigade Games.
Greg & I have known each other for 20 years, I love him like a brother & there are few people I admire more. Greg is quiet & and composed. I'm an old guy with ADD who speaks with his hands & goes off script.
I massively disliked my first play of these rules, at a convention, but it could have been a poorly designed scenario and/or a horribly condescending GM. In that scenario at least, sensible tactics were penalized by the rules, and vice versa. Like, I could have written better rules on the back of an envelope in 10 minutes. So maybe it's the rules themselves. Perhaps I'll try the rules again in the safe petry dish of a scenario/GM that I trust, and we'll see if my opinion changes.
Here’s a question. How come spending thousands of hours painting and playing historical war games gives you zero experience to speak out against the Nazi atrocities being committed by the AFU today? Nothing
Here’s an answer-this is a historical wargaming channel. So we talk about toy soldiers. No one watches our videos to hear us pontificate on politics or current events. Though since you asked, guys here in the club follow the war in Ukraine closely and with great interest.
@@LittleWarsTV Thank you for the response. People are allowed to make that decision. Good luck to you guy's private discernment. Sorry for getting angry I just get fed up with all the propaganda it drives you mad.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Competing rule sets aside, I'm constantly in awe of the amazing quality of your table set ups. As a life long scale modeler, I most enjoy building the terrain and equipment used in miniature wargames. Playing with them is just icing on the cake for me.
Thanks, Richard! It's such a visual hobby and the modeling element is as important (for us anyway) as the game itself. It's far easier to enjoy a wargame when it looks amazing and draws you in. That applies to ANY game, WW2 or otherwise.
Excellent stuff chaps. Been looking forward to this and by a coincidence I am going to put out my Fireball Forward review tomorrow.
Tony's facial expressions starting at 12:00 had me cracking up! 🤣
Great review again Gents. I’ve been waiting for this one for a while, the more exposure this excellent game gets, the better. I share the same reservation about the range dice, but if you organise your dice in separate pots for the various units I find it’s not too onerous. I’ve also found that it’s easy to adapt scenarios from other games such as Battlegroup.
Tony made up some very nice, self contained "dice boxes" that have the appropriate assortment of dice inside, each in different colors to help visually see the difference between range, ammo, and shooting dice. So there are definitely ways to help manage the dice.
Man, what a surprise. This game deserves the exposure. Thanks for doing this.
I am 100% on board with Little Wars TVs reviews of games that are already out. There are so many great rulesets out there that need some love!
A particularly excellent Review. I no longer play since Decades, but just listening to you guys discussing the rules takes me back to that time & the sheer enjoyment of it!
Fantastic game, have been using these rules for years. If you can create custom unit cards that have pictures of the dice needed it helps. We have adapted it to modern and Vietnam etc here in Scotland. I do wish it had a bigger following.
Hey Little Wars,
An excellent video(s) idea would be you guys reviewing your favorite places for different scales and types of miniatures.
IE: What companies do you like to purchase 15mm ww2 from and why? What companies do you like to purchase naval vessels and why? 6mm Roman's, etc.
Maybe even a mini series. I think people like myself who really want to get into the hobby would immensely benefit from this knowledge. I think I can speak for many in saying we trust your opinions on the matter greatly because you all are well-seasoned in the hobby.
I know these suggestions are sometimes covered in the intros of your videos, but it may also be beneficial to have these reviews in one locality.
Love your reviews, format is great and the reviews valuable and informative. You created a sale, ordered a copy of Fireball Forward, seems as 3rd edition is available. .
We are big fans and think it’s a great game! Hope you’ll find it equally fun!
This is what Squad Leader tried to do, but so much less elegantly. Same excitement playing this as when I first opened that Squad Leader box. My absolutely favorite WWII rules. Another plus on support would be the listing in either the scenario books or online, of how many figures and vehicles (and types) you need. Really helps with budgeting. Another plus for the beginner is the mini campaign (sort of) in the rulebook and a good selection of scenarios from different theaters.
I immediately thought "like when Squad Leader was still fun" 1st time I played these rules
The multiple dice shapes remind me of StarGrunt.
There are certainly a number of rules and systems that mix dice types, so nothing new there. The way the dice interact here in Fireball is somewhat unique, particularly with the range die.
Thank you for the great review. I have run FBF tutorial games at HMGS cons using the Pouppeville scenario from the rule book several times. It doesn’t take long for players to get used to rolling the right collection of dice. You did a nice job of describing the three factors addressed by a dice roll: weapon type, base range and “effective” range. The player rolls dice for the weapon type and a range die. You get a +1 to your weapon’s “to hit” roll if the distance is inside the number of inches on the range die. Simple. And that red die? Just roll a six. Do you gain anything from inserting a “multiple probabilities mechanic” in to the fire resolution phase? I think so. 1 you get the capacity for weapon differentiation which should please the “rivet counters” as you call them. And 2 you increase the player’s tension in making the shot, which heightens the emotional investment in the gamed situation. And that’s why I really like FBF.
Well said
Great review session. I will pick-up a copy of Fireball Forward to go along with my Crossfire rules. So yes, you have successfully helped "expand the community"...lol...good job guys. Mitch
You guys are great together. Excellent work (aside from causing me to spend more money on more rules… 😂)
Those examples using the scenarios are amazing.
Excellent review. Ordered. Will give it a try.
I'll definitely have a look at this one !
Thanks for putting this up guys! I tend to put stuff on the fb page, and FbF is my favorite WW2 company game by far.
I couldn't find the scenario for the Foy written up anywhere, only Crossfire, so would love to see it if possible.
Either way, great review, and thank you for these continuing vids!
Was on the Little Wars website
The scenario is the same as the Crossfire scenario, but has notes about the turn length and what adjustments are needed. Same scenario, same OOB, same objectives!
@@oblomovbruce9979 the crossfire one was. I’ll check again to see if the fbf translation is up.
@@LittleWarsTV Ah! Perfect! Thanks. Will check it out. Thanks! I saw another fbf scenario about Foy, but this one looked a bit more meaty :)
The D & D comment really cracked me up. It reminded me of my orange bag filled with every kind of dice known to man - and then some known only to orcs!
I’ve been impressed with the number of supplements.
Agreed. Very prolific in terms of scenarios and extra material!
Nice review. I love that we have two different oppinions about the rules here. There are so many rules out there which are too difficult for myself to understand. I hate to roll too many dice and I use rules in English although I don't speak the language very well.
I’ve looked at these rules a few times but have never tried them. They do look interesting but I have to agree about the amount of dice rolling required. Perhaps it may be with taking another look.
Just a good set of rules, don't let dice scare you away from a good small action WW2 game
Yea it’s totally worth a second look. Love your buildings by the way! Just ordered a whole bunch of them!
Thank you Greg 👍🏻 They will be on their way to you within the next few days.
Will it work with 54mm figures?
Sure
Given the active discussion you guys had in the small difference in some of the point scores, maybe you need to add a rating for palaver per point.😅
Hahah
I would love to see you guys review Five Men in Normandy/Five Men at Kursk, two very similar games by Nordic Weasel Games - both squad level-ish skirmishes with campaign rules, Kursk is just kind of a more "chrome"-y version of Normandy - even though it seems that such small scale skirmishes aren't really you guys' thing. Personally, it's one of my favourite rulesets. Keep up the good work!
Any opportunity to compare FB with O-Group?
We do enjoy O Group as well! So perhaps a review will be in order!
Ahh, dice..... I think it does not sound too complex. Love different dice used in one game.
Welp, I thought Greg didn't like card activation games. Great review guys, thanks!
21:47 looks like something got missed in editing?
Yup, looks like it!
A small comment on the dice; it's not appliance sciencestry. Roll under the range on that particular range dice and you get a plus 1 to your chance to hit. If you roll two hit dice and roll under on both, even better - +2. No stress really. The real reason for these dice seems to be the need to eradicate the cheese approach of moving to x.01" distance so someone can claim they are out of 'effective range'. Also models the chance that the target is ducking and dukeing in and out of cover and maybe you don't get an effective bead - or maybe you are a bunch of Sgt York's that day. Really, there are not that many weapon systems on the table that you are constantly looking up how many dice to roll either. Takes about 5 mins prep time to print them off or write them down. There's about 6 possible modifiers so no complicated tables. 6 white 6 red 1 blue or black D6, a D&D cube of dice, and bob's your uncle. You could easily drop the mechanic and still play, but contrary to Greg's assertion, I think this is a great mechanic in the game that models the element of luck and gives an element of "Schiesse, Amerikaner 150m, feuer... Verdammte Schwachkoepfe- Ost Front fuer Euch!!!
I have FF (2nd Ed), but haven't tried it yet. As you talked about, there are mechanics, particularly the dice, that seem too "fiddly". Now I'll admit as I get older, my threshold of tolerating "fiddly-ness" goes down, but that's where I am right now. At some point, I may give it a try. PS: I did play D&D, so I can tell the difference between a D12 and a D20!
Sans guns it’s pretty straightforward for infantry
so where do you get the ring bound rule book it's a paper back on amazon you guys do awesome reviews
I believe the publisher switched to Amazon for fulfillment, which is now perfect bound instead of the old spiral binding (our copies of the game are several years old)
Aaaannnddd…another rule set goes into the shopping cart. I love CF too, so I think I’ll love this.
If you like Crossfire, you’ll find much to like here.
Does Mark's Game Room have a channel? Can you provide the link?
He’s starting one this summer! We will be sure to link to it when it happens….
I do agree with Greg on this, a consistant mechanic would be much easier to follow. After the first few editions D&D also changed so now, no matter how complicated the rules, the basic dice mechanic remains the same throughout.
Hey Tony, have you ever been up to Wargamers Hobby Shop in Northern Virginia during 80's to early 90s (dad owned that shop). You just look so familiar. Maybe I met you and Bill Rutherford back in the day at one of the HMGS Conventions or the The Little Soldier Shop in Alex, Va.
Joe
One of my pet peeves as an old timer playing with rules that were in mimeo, I don't understand the hangup on "presentation". If B&W art work makes the publication cheaper for me then full color does - Well Great! Excellent examples of play (drawn , not photographed) are what constitutes a great presentation. My concept of a great Presentation is: Great drawn examples, a great QRS, use of charts rather that run-on sentences to describe unit functionality (apologies to Phil Barker - give that man a comma), a useful index ( one that goes down at least 2, maybe 3 levels), a table of contents and as an extra - a detailed description of one turn played out on the minimum of one scenario given in the rule book! I have no problem in buying additional books of scenario, but especially like them as a PDF. My $.05 worth!
Dick Bryant
That's my name, not my personality
Your opinion is worth more than a nickel, Dick! Your experience in Wargaming layouts far surpasses anyone else commenting (including ours!). The full color vs BW debate is very valid. I’d rather pay another $10 for color, but a BW option that’s cheaper appeals to plenty of gamers I think
THANK YOU GUYS.
You're very welcome! Bigs fans of Fireball Forward here.
Thanks for an excellent review. I'm with Gregg on the dice mechanics. Sounds like a better game than Crossfire. One minor thing - all the PDF/print stuff and cost info would have been better at the start of the review, I think, as it really comes under presentation.
I think BATTLEGROUND WWII by EASY EIGHT is the best WWII Skirmish scale game. Have you guys tried it?
It does not sound familiar no
@@LittleWarsTV I can send you a PDF copy of the game.
Foy table looks great.
I'm looking to kinda leave flames of war rules, is there anything similar to that regarding composition of force.
Open for suggestions.
We haven't tried it yet, but there's a popular WW2 game called Battlegroup that is basically the same scale as Flames of War and I've heard of a lot FOW players who graduated on to this as a more advanced game. Of course, all of your FOW minis and basing would work perfectly well here with Fireball Forward or with Crossfire, too! Just a smaller scale with only about a company or reduced company per side.
@@LittleWarsTV The only annoyance here is Battlegroup has individual casualty tracking. It's my big problem with that game, it can't decide if it wants to be a platoon-level detailed oriented game down to tracking your damn tank ammo or a large scale one like FoW.
I Ain’t Been Shot Mum from TooFatLardies would be another option.
I have been playing FoW with Bolt Action activation dice, instead of I Go You Go, and added Opportunity Fire for units that have not fired yet. I really hate watching tanks move side-by-side from cover across an open area exposing their side armor back to cover without any reaction from the other side.
Have no idea what your talking about! Way to many different dice for me.Lmao thanks for another great review.
Mark is the best!
It sounds like what "Flames of War" could have been but for their need to sell a lot of models.
This was a weird sequel to Milton Bradley's fireball island.
On the subject of terrain.
I've developed the opinion that any WW2 (or later) game featuring a Battalion or smaller is either located in the desert, or requires all your terrain (and more).
Ain't nobody got time to stand in the open when those MG42s open up.
This makes me want to send in my game for review. Haha We wrote it as high schoolers in 2014. I wonder if some high school basement rules would stand up to these lads.
I have Fireball Forward 2nd edition, what is the difference between 2nd and 3rd edition?
Some editing, some different scenarios, some minor tweaks
@@tonymarano913 Thanks Tony, so it's not a must buy?
I don't think so if you have Second Edition. There did not appear to be any major mechanical differences.
I have 1st edition, as it happens, and have never been able to find out what changes were made into he 2nd, except for the binding. Does anyone know?
@@liberalhyena9760 Sorry I never saw 1st edition.
Great review, great game. Liked the review so much I went out to Amazon to buy it. Word of warning though, it is print on demand and it doesn't come with a spiral spine like in the review :(.
Thanks for letting us know! We like spiral bindings….
Will you guys ever try & review "Arc of Fire" rules? One book. No supplements. Covers the entire 20th Century. I bought copies for $20 from Brigade Games.
Heard of it but never played!
What happened to the older guy that looks like Adam West?
You'll have to be more specific. We were under the impression that everyone in our club qualified as older, classy, and unimpeachably handsome.
You speak the......truth..lol
Ha, my 1st wife was right. If you tied my hands I'd be unable to speak!
Greg !!!
I was playing with a friend and for some reason used D12s when D20s were called for. Totally wrecked the game and we had to start over.
I really wish you guys would change your scoring from 1-5 since you never rank things below a 5.
Generally speaking anything that low never gets enough playtime to wartant a review
Looks like Greg's a talk down, mark nice kinda guy. Tony's more talk up mark hard.
Greg & I have known each other for 20 years, I love him like a brother & there are few people I admire more. Greg is quiet & and composed. I'm an old guy with ADD who speaks with his hands & goes off script.
Haha that's right show him the hand.
😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
I massively disliked my first play of these rules, at a convention, but it could have been a poorly designed scenario and/or a horribly condescending GM. In that scenario at least, sensible tactics were penalized by the rules, and vice versa. Like, I could have written better rules on the back of an envelope in 10 minutes. So maybe it's the rules themselves. Perhaps I'll try the rules again in the safe petry dish of a scenario/GM that I trust, and we'll see if my opinion changes.
We'll run it for you Timo! I think you'll love it with a proper scenario.
@@LittleWarsTV Awesome. You guys like it, so it is worth another try.
Geez Timo. I hope I wasn’t that GM or that wasn’t one of my scenarios. Apologies if either and let’s give it another go at Historicon this summer.
@@michaeldecarlo6945 The good thing is I honestly don't remember the name! Anyway, good on you, and maybe I will take you up on it.
I have to agree, those dice sound unnecessarily complex.
Yeah, I'll just stick with Crossfire for company level.
Here’s a question. How come spending thousands of hours painting and playing historical war games gives you zero experience to speak out against the Nazi atrocities being committed by the AFU today? Nothing
Here’s an answer-this is a historical wargaming channel. So we talk about toy soldiers. No one watches our videos to hear us pontificate on politics or current events. Though since you asked, guys here in the club follow the war in Ukraine closely and with great interest.
@@LittleWarsTV Thank you for the response. People are allowed to make that decision. Good luck to you guy's private discernment. Sorry for getting angry I just get fed up with all the propaganda it drives you mad.