Winter Kharkov Wargame
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2018
- In this episode, Little Wars TV bundles up for the snowy Ukrainian steppes to explore one of the most famous panzer operations of World War II. Tony and Steve discuss Erich von Manstein's defense of the Don River in February 1943, also known as the Donets Campaign or the Third Battle of Kharkov. Steve questions Manstein's memoirs, "Lost Victories," before four players re-fight part of the SS Panzer Corps counter-attack on February 19th in epic 6mm scale on two tabletops. Can the 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" secure a crossing over the Orel River to maintain the rigid German timetable? Find out this week on Little Wars TV! It's a microarmor brawl in the snow!
Visit www.LittleWarsTV.com for bonus content and much more! Check back here on RUclips for our "Fistful of TOWS 3" rule review and another awesome two-minute terrain tutorial.
If you're a fellow World War 2 history fan and enjoy what we do here, please subscribe, leave us a comment below, and let your other history-minded friends know where to find us! Our season one finale is now just around the corner! 
Игры
You lads have the perfect balance between bit of history teaching and wargaming. Your tables are stunning, and you generally look like your having a blast. Keep up the good work!! Best wargaming channel on RUclips. Only downside is I’m left with a feeling of jealousy every time I watch. lol
The good news is that we don't have to pretend to be having fun--we love playing these battles. It's such a great hobby and we're just hoping it can find a wider audience to learn about it. Thanks for watching and spreading the word, Alzy.
2 years later, I still rewatch this episode again and again. One of my favorites! I wonder if you ever plan to revisit the Eastern Front and specifically Operation Bagration, arguably the most important and massive strategic operation in the whole of WW2... Any ruleset will do, but to do this justice, it would have to be suitable for massive operational battles.
Bagration is boring. Nothing AGC had could have stopped it with the German reserves in the south.
You guys DEFINITELY gotta do Way More Eastern Front Battles from WW2 !!!!!!!!!!!! 💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥🔥⚔⚔⚔⚔⚔
Thirty years from now, when you’re sitting by the fire, with your grandson on your knee, and he asks you what did you do in the great Kharkov re-enactment, you won’t have to say “Well, I shoveled s*** in The Ukraine.
really awesome history guys bravo bravo
No bastard ever won a war by shoveling s*** for his country. He won it by making the OTHER poor, dumb bastard shovel s*** for HIS country.
I love that movie
@@stuartbaxter-potter8363 Yes, I remember when Patton said that outside the latrine
I Understood That Reference 😎
Good stuff lads..great context..history, narrative and simulation....proper wargaming
Well, have fun putting a division (or even battalion) on table and playing the battle in a reasonable timeframe in 1:1
Kailux will do old bean
And now there is fighting in the same conditions in the same area
these multi-table games are absolutely awsome. would love to spend a saturday doing this
I LOVE THIS!...I am planning on doing a whole set of Easter Front battles and uploading these to RUclips...THIS IS INSPIRATIONAL!
Great to hear! We'd love to see more wargamers uploading their best games to RUclips. Looking forward to seeing your games!
Got to love the *Easter* front
@@lenixthepie_4041 Yeah.. :) Just noticed...EASTER! :)
@@asenaemre That was a joke, would love to actually see some Eastern front battles on your channel!
@@S_sleepin (I could tell) :)
You guys should do battles from the Napoleonic Wars like Austerlitz , Jena-Auerstadt, etc
If you like the Napoleonic Wars, I think you'll really enjoy our Season One finale--Marengo!
ruclips.net/video/zbh4G5RUqbY/видео.html
Guys I absolutely love the way you bring these actions to life, love the historic background, love the tabletop gaming and the effort to bring the action to the table...
Loving too the picture of Field-Marshal Viscount Slim on the wall behind you.... Well respected officer and one of the best Governor General's Australia ever had....
Everyone in the club picks one hero to hang on the wall and someone here picked Slim! A fine choice, indeed. It was interesting to hear "Lindybeige" name Slim as one of his favorite commanders of all time in that interview, too.
Hello from Russia to you, guys. Your guy in shapka with a bottle of the Swedish vodka was outstanding, of course. Lol
Nice report and good gaming, if serious. I enjoyed it. The rules seem interesting. Except a moment when Russian t-34s were so easily beaten by Panzers III. It is a big flaw in the rules if the Russian t-34s were supposed to be inferior to the German medium tanks especially Pz-III.
Any way I am looking forward to see your video on the rules.
P.S. Russians never threw their cavalry against tanks. We were not as crazy. Lol
Glad you enjoyed the joke of a Russian player drinking Swedish vodka. The T-34s are more than a match for PzIIIs and IVs. The T-34 was a better tank all around and did brew up several panzers in the game. But Steve's tanks were far outnumbered on the far flank, by 3 to 1. Not a fair fight! We will be sure to let Steve and Chal know their Russian cavalry tactics were a bit too crazy.
@@LittleWarsTV ok, thanks for the answer.
I as a Swede prefer Russian vodka but I think he was secretly trying to go "neutral" and avoid the carnage?
T-34s being on par with Pz III does not seem like a flaw in the rules for me. Now I do not know how the rules work so I cant really say how it is represented there, but there is more to tanks than just guns and armor. Crew quality and good command probably has the most influence on the outcome of such battles (well, that is partially how the germans were able to defeat T-34s and KVs in 1941 without having long barrels after all) and I presume it is taken into effect in the rules. The big flaw of T-34 was a two men turret, while Pz III was kinda a revolutionry tank due to it's 3 men turret - that made target acquisition much easier and allowed for a significantly more efficient operating of the tank.
Leaving the crews/command and designs aside, it should also be noted that, even despite having better armor the T-34 was a pretty bad tank survive-ability wise. Due to poor quality of steel and in turn the armor itself (russian factories were pumping out tanks and other equipment at such a rate that quality control was at a rather low level, if there even was any at some places) was so bad that the tank did not even have to be penetrated for the plate to shatter and create enormous spalling inside the tank. There was a study examining around 900 destroyed russian tanks(sadly I forgot where and when that happened), and it turned out that around half of them were not even penetrated, yet the interior was wrecked and crew killed.
So, while T-34 historically was definitely more maneuverable, had better armor and better gun, Panzer III was a fair match for it, due to poor quality of armor and Panzer III's better crew positions.
Just found this channel, top notch stuff. I have only ever played ASL as an advanced wargame, but man all of these videos are great. I love the history lesson before hand. This makes me want to start my own club! Good stuff, cheers from MO guys!
What an atmospheric (lovely fur cap!) and gorgeous table (and room!), a beautiful looking game for a famous battle, love the armies, especially plane and cavalry, ouch poor cavalry!...👍👍
That’s just all I need in 2020 an ice fishing vacation on the Volga. Good job guys.
22:06
OFC you know who owns that farm. WE own the farm. It's OUR farm. :P
Sieze means of production, Komrade!
Enjoyable game once again. Interesting scale, do not see many of these "Operational" scale games. You guys always leave us wanting more !
Any Zulu's on those hills ?
I’m planning to do some gaming with Fistful of TOWs soon. It is good to see it in action and I look forward to your rules review.
Great video as always.
Enjoyed very much, thanks for putting this together and sharing.
Big fan of Fistful of TOWS 3 gaming mostly modern action
Another amazing video ! Keep up the great work guys
Great stuff guys - very entertaining. Keep up the good work.
Great vid and game. And good of you to give a thought on the ss atrocities.
I am a new subscriber. Your videos are entertaining and fun to watch as well as historically informing. Looking forward to your new season and keep up the good work.
Thanks for subscribing and joining us here! Much more to come in the new season!
Excellent material for the memories gentlemen, well done, good show!
Alright, another great game play and report. I never played those rules, and seem to be pretty good for those grand-tactical settings. Again, great vid!
Fantastic as always!
These games are absolutely wonderful guys, Well done!
really enjoy this series thanks
Thank you for watching!
Start to finish; great video
Thank you, Bill! Glad you enjoyed this one.
Great stuff again chaps.
You guys do fun and good work
Just found the channel, great stuff guys. Have you ever thought of reproducing the "Year of Victories" of the Marquis of Montrose. During the Scottish portion of the War of the 3 Kingdoms.
Awesome video 👌
My favorite period of the Russian front. Great video, but stukas did not have 20mm cannon and for goddsakes...its CA-VAL-RY. Keep up the good work guys.
My personal opinion on playing the "villains" in historical games is simple. You're not the actual people who committed the acts. If you want to portray a historical event, then someone will have to portray each of the sides. In this way, we remember what happened so that it hopefully never happens again.
Great point Russ.
@@myunpopularyoutubechannel and both sides committed horrific atrocities against both soldiers and civilians. There were German units that would engage American or British units just to turn around and surrender to them. This was because they didn't want captured by the Soviets.
Wow! Love this one!
Excellent stuff. I have just written my own set of micro armour rules!
Cool. My rules are late war ww2.
I’m curious what changes you made to the rules. I’ve just got into them and like the idea of simplifying them a bit for convention gaming.
Encore un super moment passé avec votre joyeuse équipe de pousseur de plomb....
Les décors toujours fantastiques, combien de temps pour réalisé cette superbe table...
Toujours avec les règles Rommel ?
Bien à vous les wargammeurs
Phil ancien des Dragons de Vaires sur Marne France
It felt rather sinister when the audio cuts away right before the discussion of SS divisions.
what a great video!
The name is "Liddell Hart", not "Hart". Used to be my most trusted WWII historian. Later on I know he was the one responsible for the German Military Myth.
I worked on the TOW night sight in the late 1800's and early 1990's.
Fantastic table and game, are the figure's 10mm with 6mm tank's, truck's and infantry support weapon's ?
Not officially, but that's a common problem with scale creep where the infantry sculpts look nice but dwarf the vehicles; this can be further accentuated when the infantry are based and the vehicles are not.
Hahahaha I love the punishments you guys come up with!
Hey guys, I just discovered your channel and website. This and the Agincourt videos captured my interest. The videos are very fun! Now, a couple of questions: the table and miniatures for Kharkov are simply gorgeous (though I'm unconvinced about Fistful of Tows... too many rules and phases, huge manual... not for me. I'd probably play this using Crossfire). I know the minis are 10mm, but what are they? Would you consider videos about the hobby aspect, basing and painting 10mm snow-covered minis for WW2? (Now that I think about it, a similar video about Agincourt would also rock!)
I believe the models (if 10mm) are Pendraken, if they are 6mm, GHQ and Heroics and Ros
wow, chal must have a really good commissar at had, keeping the troops "motivated"
I try honestly I do try but I can't seem to wrap my head around rules that have SAVES .....A good set is where after all modifiers you roll to see 1 of 3 things 1. Kill 2. Suppress 3. Miss. Not the " a battery of 105mm has just hit your platoon and hit 5 guys, now role a bunch of dice to make those nasty shells bounce away like balloons ".
I hate games with saves, but don't mind it too much in Fist Full Of TOWs as that's how it models cover.
We'll have our Fistful of TOWs 3 rule review available next week, digging into the mechanics a bit more. But as Tony said earlier, in this game you can't think of it as an "armor save" (which would, I agree, be very cheesy). Here, a saving throw is how you claim cover. Rather than apply some kind of modifier to the attacker's roll, it helps keep the defender engaged and doing something during his opponent's half of the turn.
Hey Rick. FFT3 uses a d6 based combat system. And it originally had "to hit" modifiers for terrain (usually -1 or -2). The problem with that was that there just wasn't enough room in the d6 system for many modifiers. An average quality stand will hit on a 4+ at effective range. At long range, a 5+. A -2 modifier makes the to hit roll impossible. Or, if you use a "6 always hits" mechanic, then there's no difference between hard and soft cover at long range. Fair quality stands hit on a 5+ at effective range and 6+ at long range, so the problem is worse. The saving throw for hard cover (4+) is statistically sounder - it reduces *all* "to hit rolls by 50%.
I would've stayed with a modifier but for these issues.
Wait there were cossacks in active combat in ww2?
Love the Burnside muttonchops. Should have been a Civil War battle just because of that! Why is Steve drinking vodka inspired by Sweden?
What !!! Swedish Vodka !!! Love this channel and your vids.
Hah, we were hoping someone would notice that.
Quick question, were the tables orientated the right way. On your situation map it implies the Germans are advancing over the railway line on the Northern table but in the game the Russians were behind the railway embankment or have I got it wrong?
My Understanding was by this point in history, Calvary had Anti-Tank Weapons. Also If I Had access to KV Tanks (KV-2's in particular) They would have been Front and Center.
Heah guys, pardon my ignorance. But what scale are your units 1/285? Totally great battle.
We generally refer to this as 6mm, but if we're getting specific...these are Heroics and Ros miniatures. H&R is closer to 1/300 scale, whereas GHQ is 1/285. You have to squint to see the difference!
I love the inclusion of a bottle of Vodka, but.... Absolut is from Neutral Sweden! A bottle of 360 or Stoly would have been spot on (And tastes better!) ;-)
Hah, yes we are aware. This is an ongoing gag at the club. We've had an unopened bottle of Absolut sitting on our bar for....about 5 years! We like to use it as a prop in videos now just because we find it funny that it's the only bottle in the club we don't drink. This is more of a brown liquor group!
Stoli is now Latvian - a Luxembourg group makes it. 360 is great Missouri sippin' Vodka. If you can get your hands on Kutskova if it is still around - that one is great Moscow Vodka.
what is that song played throughout the video? it seems familiar but i cant put my finger on it.
How big are these individual mats? Looks very cool with the winter theme💪🏽
What mini’s did you use? I’m trying to get into 6mm and just got the Fistful of Tows free rules. Looking forward to it!
These are all Heroics & Ros miniatures. They have an excellent website for ordering, too.
@@LittleWarsTV What did you guys use for bases? Is that a cut material or something you can buy?
Just found your channel and it is wonderful. As a historian, and a wargammer it scatches all of my itches... however, your Russian makes me cringe every time you say Kharkov... the city is spelled Ха́рьков in Russian, meaning it is an initial H sound, but since it is harder than an English H, it is usually spelled in English KH, thus Kharkov. Dont say that initial K, but stress the H instead... thanks and keep up the wonderful work.
This is a great game.
This is great. I get so tempted to play division scale games. When are you going to play Crossfire?
We enjoy playing Crossfire in the club, so it's most definitely on the radar!
@@LittleWarsTV Awesome!
Time to update the scenario.
"Glory to the Motherland!" I want a bottle of his vodka.
Great vid bravo chaps. Paulus wasn't a "von". Near everyone does that, you are not alone :-)
What miniatures line is used in this game?
Heroics and Ros, 6mm scale.
The defense of the town plays into my own impression on Soviet soldiery, like, once you tell them to sit and stay, it takes a hell of a lot to force them out
I'm just imagining a stalingrad game by his group.
Who do you get your miniatures from?
In this video, the minis are Heroics and Ros, 6mm scale.
Which are the rules of the game?
What is the scale of the models? I want to 3d print them
These are all 6mm scale!
size and brand of the minis?
@@tonymarano913 thx
what ruleset is it?
where do you get the minis
These are from a UK company called Heroics & Ros. Very affordable 6mm scale minis!
Do you guys ever cover the English Civil War?
We haven’t games this in the club…yet! Definitely a historical blind spot for us
@@LittleWarsTV Thirty years war even. Not the most popular period I admit.
Please, help me, is it 6mm models?
Yes, these are!
massive room ..tiny tables ...
History has no feelings. It is what it is, and you need the full picture of it
Now for real in 2022
this is just great ! what rules are you using? .... i wish i had a group for 6mm wargaming
I just snapped a sherman gun do they come with spare
I thought "A fistful of TOW" was about Cold War/ Modern combat 😳
What is the score playing at 10:30?
Manta D3 Dance of the Knights.
@@DiviAugusti Is it? They sound similar but I do not believe it is.
Maybe I'm wrong. It's what I thought of when I heard it.
@@DiviAugusti actually my good sir you are correct. It's just a different rendition of it I can't seem to find for the life of me.
@@noahdefrancisco2911 I don’t think it is... I’ve been trying to work this out too!
One day they'll learn to pronounce cavalry
5 to 1 or 8 to 1? What difference would it matter? You’re still going to get your ass kicked pretty hard. The fact that he came out intact and able to fight another day speaks volumes.
What is your guys opinion of flames of war?
I don't think anyone in the club has played it. I know we haven't played it as a club. I think maybe Greg or Steve played it once at a convention. I think we all just assume it is Warhammer 1940k or never bothered with it because we already had other systems that suited us.
Also it's supper expensive
@@littlenapoleon1321 our whole hobby is super expensive. Lol
@@levsharus5899 Lmao. True. Warhammer is a bitch for me XD
PS. Absolute vodka is Swedish not Russian......but still....it has the same effect...
Anyone gonna mention the "Russian" has a Swedish vodka?
It was one of the greatest military maneuvers in history. There’s no need to be revisionist for its own sake. Next you’ll be telling us how Napoleon at Austerlitz was “overrated”, or some such nonsense.
lmao, they borderline went there, trying to compare austerlitz to ulm
von Paulus, von Guderian, von Zeiztler, von Lol
A
von Paulus? … Paulus…
As I try to tell people a lot of the time on this subject. Not all Germans were nazis, majority of the time when it came to it, if you weren’t already in the Wehrmacht it wasn’t always easy to avoid being sent to the SS and as strange as it sounds. Not all people who fought in the SS were horrible people
rules used?
Have you actually watched the video or read the description?
or even use the word please and thank you in the same sentence.
Tony Marano love those rule and game them here in northern Virginia
A military buff myself, nothing embarassed me more than the hero worshippers. They give us a bad name! I read Liddell Hart as a kid. Now I'm tired of him.
Russia invaded Ukraine same time, down to the week, same place. The Little Wars guys could have told them an early thaw would cook their goose. Hubris is timeless.
Thats swedish vodka haha
Glad you picked up on that joke!
Absolut Vodka is Swedish I think. Definitely not Soviet...
Nemiroff from Ukraine would have been a way more accurate and more tasty option.
Just going to gloss over the soviet atrocities I guess.
This is war, not the Queen's afternoon tea party
@@Sheyl3319 They brought it up like the atrocities were unique to the germans.
@@cyclone8974 i'm pretty sure none of them is Soviet biased. We all know the atrocities that all the beligerents cause. There's no need to criticize them
Manstein was german. He has german name. Not german name with english pronunciation. More respect, please. Thanks.
😁😄😆😅 come on..."Absolut" is Swedish not Russian😆😅🤣