Pricing Design Work & Creativity (The Guide)
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- Stop trading time for money. Why you should'n't price hourly. Confused about how to price creative services? Are you charging hourly versus value based pricing? Is there a better way to determine what is fair to you and fair to the client? Watch this video and see how much money you are potentially leaving on the table by not pricing the client. Price the client and not the job.
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Who is this bald asian guy with glasses who talks about sales and pricing? My name is Chris Do.
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🔥Watch the 2019 Update: • How To Charge For Desi...
How much do you charge for designing a logo? Are you undercharging your creative work? Learn how to charge 10 times more for a logo. Pricing design services.
Watch Pt 1 here:
• 3 Keys To Success-How ...
Watch Pt 2 here:
• How Will Clients Find ...
3:40 Why logos are worth more to some companies than others?
5:40 Price the client not the job
7:45 What does Blind charge to design a logo?
8:25 How do you quantify/justify the hours to a client?
9:45 Paula Scher's approach
11:40 Pricing role play
13:20 Most entrepreneurs value time. Symmetry of logic.
21:20 Clients don't choose the best option. They choose the least risky option.
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The PROCESS
Credits:
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this is how college courses should be like. It's sad I pay thousands to take college courses and I learn more in a couple youtube videos than literally years of schooling.
Totally agree
Then dont be a stupid american and pay thousands for a school that does nothing to advance your skills. Drop out and pay 1/10 of that money to put yourself trough professional courses. Nobody is forcing you into college *rolleyes*
you're absolutely right, education should update their content
your college sucks apparently, i actually used this exact video on my class i teach.
Community College will help you for cheap, don't go to an Art School.
"charging by the hour punishes me for being good" as an Engineer, that hit home.
I ran into the same problem as a house cleaner. As I got better, I got more efficient and I started to feel resentful that I was actually making less money to do the same job in less time.
@@jamilynncreates3622 well then you increase your hourly rate...
@@jamilynncreates3622 You have 3 choices, depending on what is important to you. You can A) increase your hourly rate, B) take on additional clients since you have more time, C) Outsource.
Or the hidden 4th option: ALL of those things 😎
@@arieagung According to the video she should start charging by the job; doesn’t matter how fast she does it but the end result.
@@jamilynncreates3622 I didn't get it. What do you mean by you were making less money. For example if they paid you 20$/h and you did the job in 30 minutes , then that will mean that you earn 10$ for free right? unless I'm missing a point
This reminds me of my grandfather. He was an aspiring artist. During the Great Depression, he advertised in the newspaper to do portraits, $50 each. He got no replies for weeks. Then one week, the telephone started ringing. He could not figure out why, until he checked the newspaper ad. They had misprinted the price at $500. Now the portraits had value, for $500 my grandfather must be good. It was a good lesson to learn, that a higher price tag means a better product to most people. That higher price reduces risk.
yep!
Loved this comment
was he worth $500? yes the "higher price tag means a better product to most people" but if he's not worth $500 then he's not going to keep that business.
@@collins9708 It forces you to get good fast
Your Grandfather's name? Albert Einstein
"You pay me for what I know, not for my time", something a lot of people just getting in the industry don't understand. Good stuff.
Sorta kinda. From the customer perspective, you're getting paid for what you deliver - increasing their bottom line, essentially. They're just not used to paying for that, directly.
"You price the client and not the job"
Love that.
Absolutely !
But so many designers give way cos they’re desperate to get the job and cant argue their case or the financials well enough mainly cos they don’t ask the client the right questions
No, it's misunderstood: you don't charge the client (that would be discriminatory) you charge how many times your logo is going to be used! 50-100 times per year only on letterheads or 50000-10000 times printed on pruducts?
@@borcsaster well you would have a hard job in getting them to release how many times they actually used it. Plus getting them to agree to PPU (pay per use) is a very difficult task unless they are a larger company
@@the_alchemy_method You are talking in the past tense which is not in hand yet when you're designing a logo! You have to estimate the usage before work! If it's a solo entrepreneur or the company that has no products but only services than the usage will be probably low. But if it's a company with a massive product range and several years in the business the usage is going to be a lot more! Of course, you're a bit in trouble with startups, but the choice is always your's what sum to say, and it's their choice if they want to work with you or not. But you don't decide (or at least you shouldn't communicate it) on the client, because thus you'd say: I like you, I do this job for you for this much, and I don't like you so I do the same job for you for this much. You can have preferences within the clients of course, but I think it's better not to throw it in the client's face, saying: for you, it's this much! So I'd rather say: as I see this logo is going to be used... so the value of it, is... . I think the difference is in communication.
Every time a client emails me about my prices i always watch this video to calm myself down and not panic!!
I just did the same exact thing! Lol
Now I have a pair. How our actions connect can be incredible.
No way, I just thought of doing the same
I am actually freaking out MORE because i am already imagining fighting them over my value and the price i want to earn even though i “deserve” it?? 😭😭😭Anyone else? HELPPPPP
@@GaboyNatienAustralia You don't KNOW that you deserve it. You put it in quotations and thus devaluing your work. From a purely business focused standpoint... It's ok to fail. What would you rather have at the end of a month? 20 clients who said no to the price you made for them but the 21st paid you your 100k or 50 clients who said yes to your negotiated price but at the end you own 20k because you thought your work is not "worth" enough? :) You gotta live that.
I have a degree in Industrial Design and a degree in Business Management. None of the lecturers on either course even came close to joining up the practical materials in a way that made it all as clear as this. This should be mandatory watching for all designers.
Thank you so much Mike.
I’m not a logo design... not even in a creative field at all. Somehow stumbled on this video and found SOOO much value in the conversation. Amazing presentation!
Me too
Same. A lot of these concepts are applicable to other matters.
Same XD
Do you need a logo 🔥
The hourly model is broken because it rewards inefficiency. It's as simple as that. Beautiful.
There's never a plain hourly model. If you are being inefficient, your client will only be willing to pay lower hourly rates. Or he is an idiot...
It doesn't reward inefficiency, it's not like people are willing to just pay for whatever hours you use. It does actually encourage reduction in scope creep, but change order limits do a better job of that. It also protects you from unexpected roadblocks, details, client satisfaction, etc. Personally, I think a clear contract and flat rate is better. Due to that, I've made $1k in a hour due to the fact I found a better way to accomplish their goal.
@@maxmaxed2887 that was part of his contract. He said 3 rounds. Client wants more revisions? He can pay more for them.
But the lawyers get to charge at hourly rate. They are perhaps charging what designers are charging per job per hour. The world has never been fair.
30 years ago, when I was first starting IT consulting, I charged "50% of increase in revenue for the first 6 months after the system I developed went live". This worked well when I was talking to the owner of a small to medium sized business. So long at they had integrity & had a clear idea of what they needed.
I took all the risk, when it worked I made a ton of profit (very high hourly rate).
But I found it impossible to do with large enterprises. They found it difficult to calculate the ROI independent of all other activities. My productivity could be derailed by internal inefficiencies, & their legal team were challenged by the non-standard contract.
I'm a grown ass man with my own business and thought lemme watch this as I eat my dinner and remember when I was a broke designer. But dude just blew my mind. About to re-watch it.
Hey grown ass man. Welcome to the Futur.
His business acumen is flaky though he said with e-commerce your cost should be 1/4 retail because it doubles from cost > wholesale > retail but because you get to set your own prices with online stores you don't need to chase these margins since there is no middle man..
@@7-up813 Not if you want retail sales as well. If you are selling for less on your e-commerce site than I can sell it for you in my store, why would I sell it? Those sales reps need payment/commissions as well. The numbers he used were just for the presentation, but those are pretty much on par for retail.
I’m an ass man too 👍
Because of you, I was able to convince my boss to start paying me on salary which is based on my amount of work and quality instead of being paid by the hour. I kept doing my job really quick and I would get penalized.
Don't watch this video before bed, you will be way too inspired to go to sleep. Wish I would have seen this 5 years ago, I just decided to get back into graphic design after years of not doing it and immediately started selling my work and shooting for bigger and bolder jobs. Currently working on my biggest and boldest yet and this just added so much fuel to that fire. I love randomly being thrown inspiration. The universe knows all and will provide what you need when you need it. Thank you for this.
I'm not even a graphic designer and I enjoyed this.
Im more into thiestic v atheistic debates and its funny how im listening to these videos and find bits interesting.
What goes on behind the screens of widely known brands huh lol
I can't draw a straight line to save my life, and I loved this video.
Same, I'm a music producer at the moment.. But this was extremely informative. Perhaps I will have to get into consulting as well.
I initially searched for video editing. Then stumbled into graphics. And RUclips said "I think I know what you wanna see" and brought me here. I knew nothing about this stuff, and after watching it I feel like a consultant already.
It's EXTREMELY valuable info
I can't believe this video was free?!
Jonathan Perucho give knowledge freely and you will live richly.
I have every intention and WILL be purchasing the Core Kit because I just have to repay you for the value you're giving me. Just need to save up a bit more!
Jonathan Perucho thanks man. We have more kits and products coming out. Different price points as well. Plus we will be trying out a new one for one program.
Looking forward to the updates! Thank you always!
I agree with Jonathan. Amazing value, will have to get the products once this gets money in the bank.
I’m seriously blown back about how this channel isn’t bigger, the way you can peacefully do business in a clean and respectful way, making ends meet without being agressive is amazing
Been designing for 26 years now. Luckily I had lots of great business mentors over my years and learned how to be a designer who thinks in terms of business. It is a necessary skill to have in order to set yourself apart from all of the 20 year old Fiverr designers out there doing logos for $10. I also wanted to add that I often tell clients that the process of working with me will be so smooth, easy and enjoyable that I guarantee they will be delighted with the process itself. I cannot tell you how many clients I get who have had horrid experiences with other designers. Making their life easy is also a HUGE part of becoming their go-to designer over and over and over again. So don't just sell a logo, sell the ease with which projects with you unfold.
My goal is 1.5 milion. And i dont want to get paid in cash should i work for a unicorn corp. I dont even sell my art anything or patent. My art is like stocks to me.. i also deleted all my insta where art is viewed. Only kept 3 designs. Almost all artist got the wrong idea about art.. its not about small money. Its about goal and showing something new and rare. But hey im thankful bc like you said they didnt figure it out yet.. otherwise the art market would depreciate. Thanks fivir and instagram .
@@unamistone1906 You talking delirious... I don't understand what message you try to deliver here.
100% agree. Mutual enjoyment of the process is so important. It's sort of like being an Uber driver because every client wants a certain kind of ride... chatty, quiet, informative, etc... Paying attention to every client's subtle indications of what they really want and how they want to get it helps a lot.
Sometimes it's a good idea to ask them...How would you prefer we do this?
Fiver help my business spent only $3k smooth easy and enjoyable!
how can i get clients on fiverr
That argument about time and hourly rate was straight stab to the business client's heart. I clap for you for teaching me how to be a sassy graphic designer. I'll shine like your bald.
bahahha till the end it was ok, but that ''bald''part got me.
yes to the hearth of stingy client that need the compromise for the lowest amount to be ok with the conscience. Poor oaf, and then you see them queue up for the latest iphone that isn't even worth 100 dollars of materials or for everything else that make them happy without care about the price. Man's hypocrisy travels faster than light. ;D But at this point even the most fervent of moralists would have understood that is vain clutch at straws and that it would have been better to dare more value to oneself. ;P
Damn he didn't heart your comment. He must have felt that bald comment.
@@homerthompson6028 Nah, he's confident.
I like that the audience is asking questions that are relatable. They don't act like they know everything.
I have no idea why I'm watching this but I stuck through because I found your demeanor incredibly attractive. I love your confidence and speaking style.
Thank you
Yeah! The guy has confidence and a calm speaking style. And he need that confidence to charge 15K-30K for a logo and explain to the cliente why he is charging that.
By the way, thanks to your post I discovered a new word in english: demeanor.
I'm here after a year even though, as a writer for a bank, I have nothing to do with this field. Chris really has a way of drawing people into what he's saying. What a fascinating talk. Until next year!
I have taken 20 credits in business classes and literally none of them have taught me this so thank you
Thank you
Drop out
Huge mistake: watching these videos right before going to sleep, cause I get so excited that I just can't close my eyes!
Lol. It's a shot of brian caffeine.
I can relate
Same Here, It get's the ol' mind gears churnin'
I can confirm... I haven't slept for 3 days
Read legal cases and you'll go right to sleep.
Do we all ignore how perfect he just drew this Nike logo
Jacob Wallner i was definitely staring at it the whole time.
Not too similar , trus me got some ocd 😂, the diference and proportion between th base and the end to big , the angle of interior curve ...
But yeah good juob at the end
I immediately thought that! LOL
With ease
i’m finding all these lectures on youtube and it’s like youtube has become my school, i’m so grateful for the information on this platform
Yeap. RUclips University.
I used to do photography as my main job and used to charge so very little because I needed every penny. I was always charging based on what I thought the client could afford and giving them a number that wouldn’t shock them. Now I do photography on the side of my main office job - and having that income security gives me the luxury to be picky about which creative projects I take on. We typically would sit down and discuss what they needed & expected. Then based on that I’d give them a price that I wanted for that job. On some occasions my price exceeded the client’s budget and I respected that, I said I was happy to refer them to someone else, or for them to find an alternative who could meet their budget. I was very calm and nonchalant because I wasn’t desperate about the extra income, I was able to pay my bills with or without them. That allowed me to have that mentality. On majority of occasions the client came back with a new budget to hire me. It was before I found Chris’ Futur channel. I didn’t understand how or why it happened before, I wasn’t doing it as a strategy I just said what I felt. It’s so interesting to hear Chris breaking it down as a pricing/sales strategy.
It's like 4:30AM and I basically took a course on business just now wtf omg.
Haha
its 3:51am and the same wtf
Same lol
4.04...
Its 3:05am for me 😂 and I've already gained more knowledge than collage
I'm 20 and at a design academy in Cape Town and this is exactly what they're teaching us in business class. This kind of thing should be taught in high school and accessible to all designers.
whats the unit called?
@msec Ses no one would hire a designer for marketing...
Jacob Nandi
Cape Town Creative Academy
msec Ses
The lecturers at this academy all either have their own design practices or currently work within the industry, teaching up and coming students as a side hustle and way of giving back & sharing knowledge. Also it’s not a marketing school but geared towards more visual forms of design - Communication Design.
@@ZelltisExx I am a designer, who gets hired to market shit all the time and also consult. most times, they don't even want me to design anything. They just want ideas and a way to increase revenue... Why do they hire me to market? Because I have proven myself that I can foresee where the company is going, direct them to where to focus on, and save them a ton of money by not doing much advertising. I worked for a company that spent $0 on advertising and we were the first company ever to do this, and become hugely successful. Now everyone and their mother follows what we did.
During my BA for transportation design, our class was made to attend a short class that was supposed to be focused on marketing and understanding branding... It hurts me and the others to think that that class realistically cost about $2k. We learned nothing, despite being focused on the topic and it frustratingly distracted from important exams at the end of the semester. I sat up one night and came across this video. My mind was blown to have Chris explain in less than an hour how to approach this massively important but sometimes difficult concept of valuing our work for clients.
Here i am 2 years later getting ready to start off on my own design career, and im coming back to relearn from this video. Thanks so much for this, and the many other videos on your channels!
“Did I say that?” - truly an great example of the power of suggestion applied to a sale’s pitch
the time you realize speech is everything in sales. he just nailed it
A woman told Picasso: “You took just five minutes to do the sketch,” ...
Picasso: “The sketch may have taken me five minutes, but the learning took me 30 years"
yep
benjamín saravia exactly
10:20
Sean P. - There was no one like Picasso in his time though
BeyondSideshow well, you never know, there might be more but they prefer to be hidden, live private life that is. :P
You just exposed the whole brand design industry. Like in a good way.
Took an engineer class (not engineer major), and professor said that the #1 thing that engineers/designers lack out of college is business sense/understanding. This is such a great video in explaining the value of creativity.
Thanks for the great lecture!!!
Thank you
I majored in Physics. We come out of of college with even less business sense than engineers!
0:48 "I always include a brand strategy, even if they say they don't think they need it."
"Including things like a Brand Strategy for a client when the client doesn't request it and isn't paying you for it" is a bad idea. Don't give away your time and work for free. It lowers your value in the eyes of a client when they see that you've got enough free time to provide "Free services" and will open the door for them to not only ask for more free work from you, but also ask you to do extra stuff and spend your time on things for them that the client isn't paying you for. "Hey (Designer) we love the logo/ website/ package/ branding you did for us, and we really liked the BRAND STRATEGY that you gave us. Can you turn the BRAND STRATEGY into a solid powerpoint presentation so that we can show it to potential investors? Also, if you could copy it onto 5 USB thumb drives for us, we'd really love that. Then you're stuck in a position of "Do I now ask for them to pay for this FREE BRAND STRATEGY I've provided? Or do I continue this extra work and time on this for them that I am not charging them for?".
How much you charge for a logo?
Me: uhh... i dont know... like $20?
Teacher: alright so $1500
LOL
same i was like 15$
Hi, may I ask you how much you do a month by charging 20 $ a logo or how many client do you get per month ?
Of course, if you think it's too confidential for you, you don't have to answer but I'm pretty interested.
Thank you :)
@@fxded.x8019 can I ask you the same question as for Ausqfx?
Then that one person threw out $20,000 LMAO
@@corinneroe9867 fiver! lol
Not even a graphic designer but still watched this and learnt a lot lmao!
same here....
Same here ... engineer, and works exactly the aame
This guy is not only a designer. Is a business savvy
After watching this I realized how many were further along than myself. There should be a newbie lecture like this, you know for people that want to do business with bigger firms that aren't big themselves with lawyers?
I almost failed English in HS due to allot of really bad teachers through the years who really didn't care if you learned. My senior English teacher wasn't letting anyone through that didn't know enough. I came to her when I knew I didn't have a GPA that would quite make it and she offered me a test grade of whatever scene I drew from the book I was assigned. On the day I brought in the poster-sized illustration which I worked extra hard on and researched the passages of text to illustrate every descriptive word from the book to image, she stared me straight in the eye and asked, "Do you think this deserves an A?" I hesitated and back-peddled, I contemplated out-loud if it was good enough and worthy enough. Finally I answered "yes" as if I were asking a question and I almost failed out that day were it not for her grace. It was not the poster that was worth the test grade. It was the question she asked. If you can't believe what you do no matter how hard you work is worth it, you are voting more that you fail than succeed. Apparently, my teacher was much more than an English teacher. Thank you Mrs. Archambault
"You guys sell what you do, I sell what the world can do!" GENIUS!!
Dude I thought everyone just quite the video before listening to that great line
Mic drop!
what does this mean?
Camille Sergeant i think the world get involved interested by what he work doing, and then the client sell what you do meaning you get result my work and then start you business.
@@innarlife When he goes into a business deal, he isn't constrained by what HE can do; he will pull in other resources to do whatever is necessary to get a solution. He alluded to this when he spoke about the $3M web site - he can get data analytics people, three different web design teams etc. He doesn't think of himself as just a designer - he's a businessman that can manage a complete project solution, design is just one part of it.
I've been in design for over 25 years and I completely believe this. My situation has been 'employee' of 'this and that' big firm that when they found out my skill level either pulled the job from the agency they were using or just loaded me up with design work that they knew cost them more on the outside - I didn't realize I was getting screwed. I completely feel stupid at the moment. In the last 5 weeks I have literally produced approximately 40K worth of work for SALARY - I kid you not. Time to get my head on. God help me.
I think the truth lies in realizing your own worth and asking for it. To be honest, I see average designers killing it financially, and why? They simple go for it. I have to go for it. This vid is something else.
I completely agree with you!!
I've been freelancing for 22 years at hourly wages....no more!
It's really really true. I have a business coach right now and these concepts and the way we're able to make it happen for ourselves is amazing. We don't have to be controlled for 8 hours, while we trade our hours for dollars
❤️❤️❤️
The way you market your brand (in this case your artwork) is everything. Knowing who to showcase your work is half of the battle. Knowing the worth of your own art work is key, placing a price that reflects the work you do.
I work as a diesel mechanic and have lots of side jobs. This really helped me understand my value and how to charge my clients fairly and honestly.
"how many hours did you put into that logo"
My answer: "to make this logo? 3 hours. To be ABLE to make this logo, 6 years."
Big OOF
@K Q 2,50
perfect
It wont be 6 years if they didnt do anything. Logo means nothing, nothing . Just an image, easly draw
@@AriefHidayatDev if they could come up with it and draw it, they wouldn't be looking for designers
The student completely misinterpreted Chris's point. His point is that you price your work according to its value to the customer, not according to its cost to you.
yes.
Still wonder why a company which makes a lot of money should pay more than the little flower shop around the corner. For both the logo has value, for both its face of the company. Than why should a big company pay more if the work takes same amount of time? I find that BS
@@RomboutVersluijs For both, the actual execution of the logo form may take a similar amount of time. But you'd hope that the bigger company has had more research, thought, and nuance put into its conception. After all, they have more direct financial risk riding on it, don't they? Not just in printing business cards for employees, stationary, rolling out signage and documents to stores... but in public and customer perception if they find out there is a reason to change it.
@@gravityhypernova I still find all of that thinking methodology kind of BS. You know the nike swoosh righ... I believe designed for $35 by a student. Of course i can understand that for some companies the process could and should take longer. I also understand they sort calculate time in for all the iterations. With big companies come lots of people involved, the more people the harder it is the find the correct/right tone. Each person as a different look, this makes the process much harder and longer. Im not so sure about the financial risk on their logo though, what the thought behind that actually? PS a small company can have also have big research involved, but what sets it apart is if its a new or existing company. WIth a new company you have more of a fresh start, where as with a restyling you should research why they want it different or changed. Why did the older logo perhaps didnt workout. Not sure what all the renewal stuff has to do with the pricing of a logo, that has nothing to do with pricing your logo.
@@RomboutVersluijs You are right and wrong. You have to change your thinking to understand that the risk in time/profits lost, .etc. due to a bad creative strategy is inherently greater with companies that have a larger market cap. In all likelihood, the local flower shop won't require focus groups, or nearly as much research or deliberation in to creative strategy as a flower company startup with a pre-money market valuation of hundreds of millions. The Nike logo imo is the exception (reason why you are right) that proves the rule. Of course, this is not to say the billion dollar company wouldn't be widely profitable, and have great brand recognition with a logo designed by an art student straight out of school. But as the clients generally want to minimize risk, they tend not to take that approach if they can afford it.
Overall, you are wrestling with what most clients wrestle with. Creativity isn't something with a tangible value. The speakers point, is to understand your market and what your clients are willing to pay (like in any negotiation).
Came here to procastinate, when I should have done a Social Media Strategy for a potential customer...
Left with some good inspiration.
Totally worth it :D
Wish me luck with the pitch.
Worth it
@@thefutur the pitch worked out fine. We now have a 15k monthly contract. *-*
@@ClemensAlive very nice!
@@ClemensAlive this is great how many clients do you have now?
Luck
Thank you for making me feel sane by thinking "if I can't design it, I can hire someone else to at their rate and still make a good profit, because I'm an entrepreneur." I thought I was insane for thinking that until you just said it. Thank you. How do I start to market my web and graphic design firm?
I understand Chris' frustration when he asks questions to the audience because he's trying to shift their perspective for a moment. It's hard to get someone else in the right mindset to have these conversations. Thanks for helping us Chris!
I recently spoke with Chris on Linkedin for advice and he simply said, "Make some noise." Now I have a youtube channel and my productivity levels are through the roof. Thank you and see you in a few years time...
Good luck!!!
The Futur Thank You!
@@koriecull love it!
If only all teachers had enthusiasm like this during class...
It's because the results aren't dependent on thier skills.
Johnathan Bruh ...and in my humble opinion: you need to find new teachers :)
Mine did! Very dedicated staff at the Art Institute & Bellevue College
"You sell what you can do, I sell what the world can do."
Powerful stuff man.
What that mean?
The price of a logo depends on the client, if its a local one store taco shop probably just $500 but if its a taco shop with 5 or more stores probably $3K to $5K. If u are designing a logo for a product that will be sold all over USA maybe from $10k and up. U see kids its all about the level of the business u are designing for. U can't charge $10K to a small plumbing company of 3 employees. Find out the level of the client and how much money they make to figure out your price!
That’s pricing the client. Perfect.
That's what I was wondering while watching the video. Perfect comment!
@msec Ses But the value you're giving depends on the scale of the client's business.
@msec Ses The value you're giving isn't minimal. You are giving the clients security. They want to feel secure with every aspect of their company, logos included. Not to mention they are talking about whole re-branding's and brand strategies, etc. If the company feels insecure about any of it or has to re-call a logo at some point it is costly $$. Business is a very mental thing. And if anything rather than taking advantage you are doing a service to these smaller companies by drastically reducing your prices, plain and simple.
Something not mentioned in this video but that is also important is that you have to be competent. He is confident because he is competent. He is going to do his job well whether it is a small company or a large one and he knows that. That is one place where he draws that confidence from to be able to charge on a gradient scale. A lot of the designers confused in this seminar were probably not as confident in their own work so it was harder to process. Or they were still coming from a 'worker's mentality.
"value you're giving (which is always minimal)." This sounds more like projecting, and/or coming from a non-business point of view. Hours spent is not the only thing that denotes worth. Even though most 'jobs' will tell you this. The $/hr model is flawed and starts unraveling quickly in the realm of artistic creation; music, art, branding, etc; and business as well. The value he is giving the company is his self, his work ethic and his word. And I doubt they would be minimal.
See that does make perfect sense but is it ethical? I don’t want to pay $100 for a gallon of milk at my local grocery store just because my income is higher while my neighbor pays $3.50. That’s what I’m not understanding. How do you justify the price differences when you’re getting business by word of mouth and the clients are two different income brackets?
I've been a freelancer for 10 years and had to (and still am) learn all these lessons the hard way. Listen to this guy! Charge on the value you represent to your client and not on the number of hours you need. Learn how to negotiate plus analyse the details and needs of their business.
How's the Life of a Freelancer? I'm new to it and looking to pursue it as a full time income from home as I am a single mother...
"I sell what the world can do." That closing statement was everything.
Time is never in the budget, but we want it quick.
Good perspective on pricing creativity.
It is priceless.
I'm just a recent graduate in I.T and this really was an eye opener for me, this is what schools should have taught there students. "HOW TO VALUE YOURSELF"
Xcidia n
*Woman charges $20k for a logo*
*Me selling logos for £5* : uhhhh...
Change. It’s up to you.
Same🤦🏻♀️
I'm selling for $1 and $2 😭
Take some pride. Add some Zero's my artist friend!
@@thefutur Especially those clients who doesn't have any idea about logo pricing and just bring up prices they think it should be.
Although he's talking about Logo's, this really can be applied to anything. What a fantastic speaker!
It looks like I have to arrange a meeting with all my past clients and tell, there has been an error in the calculation of the charges, got to rectify that. :(
Lmao
😂
🤣 🤣 🤣
😂😂😂😂
What do you do for a living?
"You guys, sell what you can do. I sell what the world can do."
HOLY CRAP !
so profound words, always the best things are said at final
@Mohammad Almtab I think it means if he can't do it alone, he'll charge 3million and contract others to do it ;)
That's the EXACT reaction I just had when I heard that.
Thus I shall be the 300th like
What a line!
I watched this 3 years ago but didn't understand it, but after I worked in a studio for a while does charging now makes sense. I see my art director argue with the client all the time when they ask about why is it so expensive, and my AD always winsss just like Chris here. This is seriously content not meant to be for public eyes cause I think this is a superpower lol
Thanks
Nice job Chris! The key of this video is the minute 20:27: "It doesn't matter because the first day I started, I wanted to charge these rates anyways."
I'm a "client", a non-designer and this opened my eyes! I am looking to ask for a proposal with the same question wondering why do designers charge different price. Now I can decide better ☺️ thank youu!
The sad truth,
I'm into Motion Graphics and Animation in case you need me, I'm ready
Nike paid a student designer $35 for the swoosh logo in 1971.
that is so sad
Then they offered her a position there and she worked there for a while
Pretty sure she later got some shares of the company, and seeing as said company was Nike, it worked out pretty well in the end.
Davidson would work for Nike for several more years until the company needed the help of major advertising agencies. Knight recognized he'd gotten a "pretty good bargain" and her contributions did not go unnoticed. In 1983, Davidson says she was invited to a surprise reception by Nike where the company served her chocolate swooshes and gifted her Nike stock and a gold swoosh ring. She has reportedly never sold any of that original stock.
Nearly 50 years later, the design is unchanged, having adorned countless celebrities and athletes. The company remains one of the world's most valuable brands - a brand Davidson's work helped build.
It's a role to which Davidson gives little weight. "When I see my design in everyday life today," she explained in one interview, "it's a little surreal and strange. While I'm proud of what I did, in some way I see it as just another design. It was Phil and the employees at Nike that turned the business into what it was. If they didn't have the savvy, it would have been just another drawing."
@@kathrinschmidt-ks-wohndesi584 how is that a scandal?
The student designer got paid what they were after. $35
Each person chooses their own wages in life.
I found this channel about two days ago, safe to say it has freaking changed my life. Thank you so much.
Thanks for sharing! Keep digging. Let's see how far we go together.
holy shit me too
and I ain''t even designer.
8 Month later, how did it go?
Did you just said i am 20k woth and you will pay this or i dont work for you?
Are you homeless now? ;)
Gabie Moret same. The info here has given me a whole new way of thinking and approaching this situation
Man... this aged so well. I never came across this until now.
You'lve pretty much been teaching similar concepts across all your content, but it never gets old and is always relevant.
Thanks!
Even as a regular private corporation employee, this conversation brings so much value. I have an immense amount of experience in my industry, moved to a new state across the country, applied for my industry in the new state asking for my old rate. Private corporations look at me like I'm crazy. I value my skills, expertise, and quality of work more than they value it.
I've watched this about 15 times... (or listened in the background while I am working) and continually get inspired to know my worth...I've got over 18 years of experience and still feel like I am constantly "giving deals" to everyone.
I'm not even a designer and here I am learning about the economics of it
same here
I always love it when Chris roleplays, His answers are so wise.
Totally applying this to my life! I price my work way too low and clients still haggle. Thank you
I’m a photographer and this information is so valuable! Thank you for putting this type of content out there.
You’re very welcome
photographer too, learn so much
Yep me too.. I think we all should know a little about everything specially business. Thats what make difference between the teacher and the student.
Photographer as well, this was great!
This is the #1 design channel! I've been designing for six years now and I think I've made every business mistake under the sun. I took business classes, but there wasn't one class on the DESIGN business at my school. If only I'd had these videos back then I'd have saved myself so many headaches, and I'd be so far ahead of the game! Better late than never I guess! Thanks so much for making these.
Devin Holmes I have a lot of questions for you Devin. Can you message me on FB? This is Chris btw.
Hi Chris, I don't have a FB, but I sent a LinkedIn invite.
accepted.
Now, you can create your own coursework and create a new online business program & academy with any of these learning management programs that you can utilize to build your courses. Then you can coach a small group of students who needs that help and you can provide them with your course for about $350 but... If they also want you to coach them through this process, let's say that you had created 12 modules for the 12 steps to become successful in making your business in graphic design. You can easily charge $3500 for your 12 week business program. Easy
what i like about this video is somewhere around 10 mins into it theres valuing your services and that can be applied to any bussiness and idk about ya'll but i'm downloading this video before he puts it in a course and sells it rather have this info for free for life.
i’m watching you’re video right now and i i always like to say, that whenever somebody ask you how many hour you work!
Its not about the time you spend doing the logo because you could spend the whole day doing just one logo but the knowledge and experience you have to understand the value of the client to give the same value for your work !!
Easily the most asked question for any creative business and it almost always gets the same answer: "it depends" This was remarkably helpful
I understand what he is saying. If you are confident in your work you don't have to discuss how many hours one outs in a project. Plus an underdog will only tell someone how much they put in because they feel as if they will make more money and literally they can be done in 10 minutes and charge up to build their clientele versus someone who is known and very branded and get your branding visibility out there. One will be building his or her reputation and the other will make you quickly visible because of they are already established and known. Some times quick isn't always good.
This is where all the nice people hang out on the internet
@@crowlsyong go to bed.
When you said “you guys understand that?” I nodded my head like I was there 😂 oh my I’d love to be there eh
haha. next one you should come.
5:28 "You price the client, not the logo." - I love that!
But is that fair? I've often wondered about that. Is it fair to charge a bigger client more money just because he's bigger/got a bigger budget? How do you justify it? BBC broadcasting spent millions on updating their existing logo by some super minor changes. You have to wonder whether they could not have done it cheaper by just hiring a talented designer for $5000, which would still be a lot for rounding some edges and whatever minor changes were done
Hi Larry, I thought the same (is it reallt fair?) BEFORE watching the video. But listening to Chris on pricing based on size of the risk the business has to bear, it makes sense to me now. Hope watching the full episode again, not necessarily convince you the same way, but at least open up a room for you to consider why others would think so?
@@larryphotography I definitely think it's fair. A company printing £1million worth of branded content who makes £2million straight from that right now is more likely to have £20k to spend on making the brand connect more with customers and potentially see an increase in sales of 1-5%. That would at the very least see them break even or see up to an extra 100K in revenue. Somebody spending £100k on the same thing is much less likely to spend £20k on a rebrand so the brand itself is simply not worth as much to them at this point in time - you will need to charge less. You could obviously hire Joe Shmoe after a friend said he knows how to use illustrator and he could do a great job. You roll the dice and he does a great job first time with no problems. Amazing. You've saved so much money.
Though what is more likely - from a business point of view - is that Joe Shmoe, while talented in how to use illustrator, has no idea how to communicate with you, can't deal with your issues through the process, didn't specify exactly what you were going to get... There's just so much that could potentially go wrong and you need this job done by the end of the month. Maybe a big company would be willing to hire 10 inexperienced designers and choose 1 of those results and they MIGHT get something like what they want but I think they would much rather have the confidence of 1 established and proven company who they can show their investors, directors etc. and be assured that the job they want done will be done well, in the time frame they need and have the numbers to back it all up.
I can understand why people would think that it's 'just a logo' but I don't think those people appreciate the importance of brand. Big business knows the importance of that logo.
Equally though this is not the only way you can do it. You can charge a flat rate that pays your bills and lets you do what you need to do and if that makes you happy and you just love the process and working on that then that's awesome and you do you. The money 'lost' means nothing to you but I'm sure a company that needs that money to pay employees, bills etc. is going to want to do their best to get the most out of their business. Just my thoughts.
@@ZupaTr00pa thank you for your reply, I think that you touched on many valid points. My question is also, is it fair that if it's a small company you charge less and a big company more, assuming the same amount of work needs to be done and that you always are reliable and work well and don't deliberately do small jobs badly (which I'm sure would put you out of business pretty quickly)
@@larryphotography I think it's an interesting discussion for sure.
In the broadest most surface level you would probably consider the difference to be unfair and I think if you as an individual are uneasy with that feeling then this pricing method is not for you and you should think of something else. I think this is one of the reasons Chris says to try and get the client to tell you what the value to them is going to be by asking the right questions.
One of the really interesting things Chris said here was that the people who are good at what they do would get punished because they were faster at doing the job if they work based on an hourly rate or something similar and because most people immediately jump to 'this is how long it's going to take and this is my rate'. Clients understand the money and the numbers - that's their language - but what you've done is played your cards blind. Maybe they had a budget of 50k to spend and you've said you can get the work done for 10k. Of course they're going to take that deal and you'd be none the wiser to the other 40k. If you ask the questions so that the client determines the value of what a new brand could be, then they've already justified the purchase to themself through the use of numbers and money - the language they speak.
I can see why it may seem a little 'snake oil salesman' but ultimately there's a reason the client comes to you - they can't do it themselves. They don't have the creative staff or the time to do it. But they need to have confidence in you to be able to perform and if you talk to them in terms of real business impact I think that's where the confidence comes from.
Great lesson. My problem was always lack of confidence and how to properly communicate why I charge what I charge.
Same here. After years of experience, I decided I wanted to switch things up and see how working by the hour worked and boy did I realize that charging by the hour was the biggest mistake I have ever made in my life! I thought I was charging a reasonable amount and I was but what I didn't realize is the people I was working for were a bunch of cheap asses, nickel and diming everything. This woman had the audacity to say well " it takes me 3 hours to clean my house", this woman is a liar, by the looks of it! With piles of clothes through the hallways, I can tell she had never cleaned her house. I usually can estimate how long it takes me but she didn't even tidy up her house. If the house was maintained cleaned then it might take 3 hours but it also depends if they tidy up, which this woman didn't, that's the reason why I assumed that charging by the hour would be reasonable because she had a mess. But no all I heard was criticism. Not on me but on my cleaning partner, oh no she's too slow. My last straw was when she asked me to clean after her dog. First of all I was in the middle of something in the second floor; and I was almost finished upstairs plus the incident occurred in the first floor, I was no where near it. Second, I had already cleaned the first floor, third my job is to clean the house not clean after her dog. And of course I was ignoring her when she started calling my name because she hired a house cleaner not a gopher! So as soon as I finished, I came downstairs and she tells me, can you pick up this smear of 💩, my dog just had an accident, she had already picked it up since I was ignoring her because I was upstairs trying to finish her mess but I cant believe she had the audacity to tell me to clean after her dog! I didn't sign up to be her gopher or servant! That's exactly what she wanted a servant! At this rate I'm never going to finish! What she wanted was a slave, let me know when you finish up that task and I'll let you know, how about, you read my checklist or better yet make me a checklist but no she just wanted someone to boss around. I wasnt getting paid enough for that! I definitely learned my lesson! Don't ever charge by the hour!
When I started my first brand I was so impatient when I ask for a design. Like every day I ask "you done it?". But I learn the major lesson with time is magic in the effort of the design, and I ask for highly detailed design. But now I'm with my second brand and if I ask for design, I happily give the time of the world and upfront payment first, I know not everyone work with this but I dont want to waste artists time. So if I ask you to do me a design. First I ask how much, i will give you much detail on idea. Even draw it myself for a idea. Then I pay first and then happily wait till the moment we have the finish product! #respectyourdesigners
My last graphic design class before graduation was about business. All we did was transcribe text and implement our own design. A whole semester wasted on a teacher who gave instruction to reword text, made us work and contributed to nothing, while getting paid to give a 5 minute speech and wasted our hour night class away.
Thanks to the Futur, I realize those are the people you don't want to work with. Chris knows how to lead and that's golden.
thanks!
Now that's what we call a lecture..! Subbed immediately after watching this..hope to get to see more video like this!
Thanks! Welcome to the channel.
Same here. 1st Video too. He hit the nail on the head. #100
Subbed while watching. I can tell I'm about to love this channel.
Yup... exactly what i did... man you are good and you earned my sub and respect...
Looking forward to more from you.
yeah hell ya i subbed.
@@thefutur
I'm mind f*ing blown by how much value you add to people listening through! AMAZING videos guys!
"You guys sell what you do, I sell what the world can do." Mind blown
This is powerful and inspirational! It makes me want to start my own business, get my logo, create dress shirts to back my brand, along with business cards, web pages, RUclips videos, powerpoint slide overlays, etc.. etc... Great stuff!
Lets do it
I graduated in business and information technology and in art and design and I can confirm that it is a potent combination. My knowledge of the minutia of business systems gives me a unique perspective when interacting with clients.
So if you are serious about being financially and creatively successful it makes sense to understand your client and their world. Those who make the greatest gains in this field are those that understand both sides of the business and how to exploit them for personal gain.
I feel fortunate that my interests span both disciplines and I am a natural sales person. I would literally jump at the opportunity to sell ice to Eskimo’s. Ultimately what makes you a stand out is to live for the challenge, once you start to become successful it isn’t about the money, it’s about the win.
Thank you Chris, for making this available. Your presentation should be mandatory at art school so that the most important element of the art business is made a priority it serves to be.
Respect!
I’m not even planing on become a graphic designer and I learned a lot and kept me interested in the video, That’s the power of enthusiasm 💯
That was the key component to everything in this video, “You guys sell what you can do, I sell what the world can do!” Wow impressive I think that just change my game, confidence and ready set go.
I can guarantee that. ❤thanks crazy how hearing something a certain way can change everything ❤❤❤
Boom!
I seriously can't believe there are designers who keep charging by the hour. What we (are supposed to) sell is value, so much so the price becomes irrelevant. A client (or any of us) will find anything expensive if the price is higher than the value. So don't focus on costs, effort, time or the art you're producing: sell your designs in terms of how good they solve a business or human problem, or need. By the way, this was a very instructive video. Only thing missing was intellectual rights / copyright which is key in pricing graphic design (logos included). What we're trading is not the art but the usage.
some designers have been successful licensing their work to clients. so if you are, kudos to you.
ANd how would you value a logo to a startup or a very small business, there come the issues of calculating a proper pricing. You cant value a log for a new company. How can you value a logo for a big company? Pricing logos is very hard i think, there can be so many steps which make the time 5-10 times longer.
13:30 holy crap it makes complete sense. I just saved the client time therefore that saved time is what I'm worth.
Shea Lee Yessss
Just discovered this guy. Incredible valuable content. Started implementing lots of his advice in my daily client meetings. One of those people who provide value instead of blowing lots of whistles and bells to sell their courses. Grateful for this content.
Welcome to the Futur
Do you need a logo
God, you are a life saver! Has been waiting eons for someone to teach me the most sensible approach to charging clients. Respect! Thank you.
Glad to help
Thank you for throwing out numbers! I hate hearing "it depends." I'm new to the business world, so I have very little reference for how much money companies even HAVE. I was charging waaaay to little for my time. I was thinking I had to design faster to compensate. I thought I was just not a good enough designer.
Omg! I am a spiritual business coach and I am currently working on a project that I am working for Empath Introverts. So I got a business coach who is also a great speaker and she's been teaching us in the Spiritpreneur Warrior Business program and one topic of discussion that we've had deeply, is how do we know what to charge? And how do we break it up?
It seriously does depend on upon your niche market and who you want to be working with as customers and who are these people? What are their needs? Strengths? Goals and objectives? What do they FEAR the most? And where do they feel least confident?
Now.. If you have your unique style and presence in your business worldview and your own business branding, coupled with your core values and your manifesto.. You can charge a very decent chunk for your specific niche market specialty. That client will be so attracted to your work that they will be more than happy to provide you with full payment. Especially if you're walking them through the process of designing and building. You're sort of coaching them through the process of designing each element and creating something that is unique and stands out.
My areas are Empowerment for Empath Introverts such as I, the spiritual Entrepreneurship, spiritual marketing, Transformational Leadership coaching, etc So.. I would pay $4000 for my entire branding to be created but only by the designer who works for and with spiritual Entrepreneur's, lifestyle and well-being bloggers, Inspirational RUclipsrs,... It's all about the self worth, the story used for the marketing and the message that the coach, entrepreneur, or creative, happens to be engaged in. You always want to Niche down as far as you can. The more specific you you are within your areas of expertise, the more successful you will be finding your business in. It's a mindset
Wow this fella is dropping some serious knowledge.
Came here because youtube put the video in the queue after watching a couple of videos about design, left in pc while i was doing some stuff (kind of like listening a podcast) and it blew my mind from the other corner of the house. "Clients don't choose the best option" im living that situation right now, and now i understand everything. Immediately subscribed.
This is powerful information.
I'm an illustrator and former professional tattoo artist.
What i see not being taught in school is the value of intellectual properties , trademarks and copyrights.
I have ripped myself off by being a "nice guy" too many times. This video is great for pros.
Excellent lecture. I'm a recently retired military member finishing up my last few classes of my BA degree and everything you said made complete sense, especially about the need for creatives to learn and understand business language to extrapolate the client's value of the job.
10:24 and on is the most profound thing I have listened to this whole entire month. From a solopreneur working to become an entrepreneur: Thank you for sharing your wisdom. 💪
The business of design in my life just changed 🤜🏽🤛🏽 thanks Chris