I love this format , as a beginner one of the things that was really tough to wrap my head around was all the different ways to do the same outcome, in many cases it depends on workflow an personal preference but to understand when to use what is very important to develop ones own workflow , more videos at this format will really be appreciated amazing work guys.
To preserve the UV Seams, you can duplicate the object before beveling and then use the Data Transfer modifier for UV Seam after the bevel modifier, and use the unbeveled original as a source object. Just set the mapping to "Projected Edge Interpolated". [Edit]: Use Alt+D for the duplicate and hide it, so you are still editing just one mesh.
This is actually really illustrative, I never really got why so many experienced modelers used holding edges when edge creasing ostensibly left less excess geometry until now. I honestly thought it was just blender-specific and a lot of educators were unaware of it after learning in another professional 3d package.
great tutorial, great explanation, all on point. I wish all tutorials would be like this and not wasting my time with "and if you didn't install that add on go to preferences, search for bla and check that checkmark"
Working as 3D freelancer a long time now. But never really worked with bevels or autocreases, just did everything by hand wich sometimes results in too much topology or catastrophes. Really helped me understand those things now. Big thanks to you!
@Mocorn It is if you select one loop, but if you have multiple loops selected shift+ctrl+r can make some pretty messy or unexpected geometry (try multiple intersecting loops or two connected faces on a cube as an example) so I prefer to use a bevel, but whatever works!
Awesome tutorial! I brought the video into my audio software and I think if you bring the lows down (0-200hz) it will make it all less bass-heavy. That and a little more de-essing will really bring a lot more clarity! Thank you for making this I'm gonna use all these modeling techniques real soon!
When you're talking about smooth shading, the obvious response is that you need to turn on Auto Smooth (under Normals in the Object Data Properties tab, if anyone's unfamiliar) to make it stop trying to blend over sharp edges, BUT honestly subdiv + crease still tends to create some weirdness, so your main point stands.
I prefer the bevel modifier using weights + mean bevel weights. Easier to work with a low poly model that looks like a high poly model with loops. You can go back and make changes easier and it's just better for me. I also add the weighted normals modifier to smooth surface normals. Also, if you unwrap the model as a low poly with the bevel modifier in place, you can export it and put it in things like Substance Painter and the UVs are perfectly placed where the low poly edges would be even though you are texturing the high poly.
I typically only use creasing when I'm also making the edges sharp. E.g. inside corners/angles or thin outside edges. Also, after you apply the bevel modifier, just unmark seams and use seams_from_islands() to correct the seam placement. It's a bit annoying that this is only available from the UV viewport in recent releases, and this could definitely be automated by the modifier, but it's a useful tool, especially if you're working with contractor assets or imports.
Helpful, I've always used creases as much as possible or even exclusively because I thought it was better looking, easier to use and used less geometry but this clearly shows I was wrong in almost every regard. I'll have to get out of the habbit.
I just defaulted to using edgeloops cuz it felt like i had more control, but fixing or changing the mesh afterwards was always a pain in the butt. It never occurred to me that creasing existed.
adding bevels for sharp corners is lot better than creasing, it gives better reflections and sharpening, and you can also control sharpness from both sides by sliding the supporting loops close or away from main edge, i used to model with crease, but when i switched to maya, used supporting edge method, it's lot more powerful, and with this knowledge it's lot easier to get high paid jobs, good studios will only hire modellers who can use this method, if you want high pay, you must learn this technique.
Crease is very helpful always with value 1 when you need to create complex hard surface smooth shape with a lot of angularity. after apply 2 or 3 levels of subdivisions and apply subdivision. after you have denser mesh to add smaller details on it such as buttons, connectors and etc.
I...think I might get this course when its out. I just started learning sub d workflows. Very nice, would like to learn howto keep poly count lower and figure out how to UV unwrap better. Let me just say UV unwarping is the worst.
I really hope devs can one day fix that UV issue you showed. I mean it could easily be an option, i think it should be default actually. This issue is kinda of annoying and has been there for years
Perhaps even go so far as using a bevel modifier with mean bevel weight, as its none destructive and way easier to edit. Once you use destructive bevel method, its very hard to edit
Tje bevel mod and weight act a bit more as using support loops. I find it to look better lots of times. Also because we can set the segments, its really create of adding detail
Very informative video.. I really like the non-destrictive modifiers of Blender.. coming from Lightwave 3D, it's so damn cool :) (oh btw, the audio could be a little less bass-heavy, my headset is killing me 🤣)
Sometimes I use two layers of subdivision - the first is set to "simple", this can create a similar effect although not sure what advantages it has other than being really easy and non destructive.
I really like the content, but why didn't you use auto smooth or weighted normals with creases? When I model anything with subdiv I almost always use one of those or even both when I need a proper looking shading, no matter the method of making shapes, but especially when use creases. And if saving an editability of a mesh is at consideration - creases is the best option, maybe with slight use of bevel as a modifier.
I didn't think to mention auto smooth since I generally try to avoid the razor sharp edges if at all possible, but it certainly makes sense in some situations. I haven't seen a good use case for using weighted normals with subdiv (only with low poly and beveled stuff), so I'd be curious to see an example if you want to shoot one over via twitter or our discord -JL
Autosmooth & sharp edges are not supposed to work with subdiv at all, it's just blender does it weirdly but they're planning to change it in the future. Creases are not great either, they won't give you proper shading and they won't transfer to other softwares unless you're only using blender.
I'm surprised that sharp edges with auto smooth was never mentioned. I exclusivly use creases that are set to 1 and usually set those same edges to sharp. I pretty much only use this setup for edges that point inwards.
This is a complete misunderstanding of how crease functions and how you should use it. Crease is meant to have supporting geometry, but it's designed with evenly spaced geometry as it's control. use of it can be VERY powerful this way, as you can then add extra details in the even spaced quads and the mesh basically support ITSELF without having to add any extra geometry. also if you use it right, it makes transitions from soft and hard edges INCREDIBLY simple work, to the point it's almost two or three clicks.
im having problem for sculpting , topology gets dense toward bevels so it doesnt spread out well and even with millions of polygons not good for sculpting , how could i solve this?
all higher poly use cases? i know UE5 is gonna make lowpoly stuff for a lot of objects needless for anyone who uses UE5 but anything animated still has to be retopo'd. seems like creases would be more useful in those instances to control shape and edges while still keeping a low subsurf. the higher poly look gets baked into a texture yea? am i missing something that would make this a pointless usecase?
Good question! I would generally avoid subdiv for anything low poly or game-ready (even in UE5...), so I haven't thought about it much. What would be an example where you would use subdiv for low poly except for maybe applying it at the very beginning? -JL
@@cg_cookie i tend to apply subdiv (usually just 1 or 2 levels) after box modeling and using crease to get the shapes and edges i want. after that i remove the loops i don't want, then on to uvs and texture painting. maybe the way i do things is kind of weird. it's based off of this video i saw a while back about how they used subdiv at pixar for different things to get the shapes they want without having to model a lot of complex forms and it lets them turn down the subdiv to make the viewport more responsive. some of the examples they showed were pretty old stuff but i realized that after the subdiv they were actually still as low poly as many modern (maybe not so modern anymore) game objects. it's mostly just me playing around for my own amusement and i can't say most of it is worth looking at.
Wouldn't that mean that creases are highly useless in most of the cases? Like, if you can do everything with Support Loops There's gotta be more uses than just some small or distant geometry
Subd gives a better shading and smoothness. Now, you need this amount of detail doesn't depend on how simple the object is, but how close the viewer is from it as stated.
That would look better, but if going that route why use subdiv in the first place? In a few cases it might make sense, but most of the time I think it would be a waste of polys
creases without edge groups , selection Sets, edges poly edit modifier and only with manual selection all the time is pain in the a.. in blender even 3.3 have nothing dev. since 2.8. and the non destr.workflow is crap... Max is a dream to work with edges and blender miss a develpment point since years, but I know blender is vertex only... So it is what it is.. for beginner okay for Iteration modelling non destructiv modelling its hard... imagin you can select control edge parameter from a list and control creases, hard edges withhout selecting all over again & again the whole time . not only your mouse hand would love it, (time is money) p.s. or you can delete your Support loops after cage baking with one click...dream.. So for modelling Max s is King..
That would look better, but if going that route why use subdiv in the first place? In a few cases it might make sense, but most of the time I think it would be a waste of polys
great video, but please equalize your audio not to be this boomy next time.. I have really good speakers and the audio is really rich in low-frequency sounds.. on a good quality headset it's even worse.. it's not great for my ears.
The creased model looks like trash simply because you didn't turn auto-smooth on, which is really doing people a disservice and making creases look worse then they are. In fact, they all look like they're made of soft materials because you're not using auto-smooth. There's really no reason not to when doing hard-surface, since it keeps your flat planes flat. While keeping the rounded look of the edges.
That would definitely look better, but if going that route why use subdiv in the first place? In a select few cases it might make sense, but most of the time I think it would be a waste of polys. Besides the bevel shader (which is awesome) and weighted normals (which also relies on the amount of geometry and suffers the same issue), how does auto-smooth keep the rounded look of the edges?
it is, creases is better avoided and if subdiv is not necessary, using auto-smooth and weighted normal modifier on the mesh with bevels or/and bevel modifier is polygon wise alternative, for hard surface without curves definitely. Only one thing... for some reason nobody actually understands new Blender doesn't have auto-smooth function anymore. It's only modifier now as far as I know. I use addon "old autosmooth" but anyway, for newest Blender, autosmooth is modifier, for older versions is here Properties > Data > Normals > Autosmooth checkbox (usually 30-60 degrees or something between these is used, depends on your project)
@@polygrind if you want to work in big studios, you will have to use supporting loops, you can't just depend on creases that much, you will need sharper corners and perfect reflections, you can only achieve that with supporting loops, not with creases.
![[DOKKAN BATTLE] Worldwide Campaign Announcement Video Part 2!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JpT5Voak6WA/mqdefault.jpg)
Auto smooth -> Weighted Normals modifier is a life savior for these kinds of stuff
How could I do that method??
I love this format , as a beginner one of the things that was really tough to wrap my head around was all the different ways to do the same outcome, in many cases it depends on workflow an personal preference but to understand when to use what is very important to develop ones own workflow , more videos at this format will really be appreciated amazing work guys.
To preserve the UV Seams, you can duplicate the object before beveling and then use the Data Transfer modifier for UV Seam after the bevel modifier, and use the unbeveled original as a source object. Just set the mapping to "Projected Edge Interpolated".
[Edit]:
Use Alt+D for the duplicate and hide it, so you are still editing just one mesh.
Wow a big name took the mound. It's great to see Wiresoul leave the comment :-)
This is actually really illustrative, I never really got why so many experienced modelers used holding edges when edge creasing ostensibly left less excess geometry until now. I honestly thought it was just blender-specific and a lot of educators were unaware of it after learning in another professional 3d package.
great tutorial, great explanation, all on point. I wish all tutorials would be like this and not wasting my time with "and if you didn't install that add on go to preferences, search for bla and check that checkmark"
Maybe Blender could add an "edgeloop modifier" that generates non destructive edgeloops, similar to the bevel modifier.
You can actually do that using the bevel mod, it just only works to an extent
Add a bevel and set the "Shape" to 1.
Working as 3D freelancer a long time now. But never really worked with bevels or autocreases, just did everything by hand wich sometimes results in too much topology or catastrophes. Really helped me understand those things now. Big thanks to you!
Instead of beveling at 1:46 you can press shift+ctrl+r to create loops on both sides of the selected loop
this tips is included inside the course
SO helpful holy crap
So ctrl-b and shift-ctrl-r does exactly the same if you don't move the mouse too much?
@@Mocorn Yeah when you have a subdiv theres probably not a whole lot of difference, but i think shift-ctrl-r is pretty useful for a lot of other uses
@Mocorn It is if you select one loop, but if you have multiple loops selected shift+ctrl+r can make some pretty messy or unexpected geometry (try multiple intersecting loops or two connected faces on a cube as an example) so I prefer to use a bevel, but whatever works!
Ive always avoided this workflow up until hopefully now onwards. Very useful info thanks
Great, hope it makes things easier!
Awesome tutorial! I brought the video into my audio software and I think if you bring the lows down (0-200hz) it will make it all less bass-heavy. That and a little more de-essing will really bring a lot more clarity! Thank you for making this I'm gonna use all these modeling techniques real soon!
Audio editing is the bane of my existence (already did both to some degree) but I'll keep working at it, thanks 👍 -JL
@@cg_cookie I’m no pro, but feel free to DM me if you’d like any help!
Exactly. The suboptimal leveling of the audio is the only issue about this video.
When you're talking about smooth shading, the obvious response is that you need to turn on Auto Smooth (under Normals in the Object Data Properties tab, if anyone's unfamiliar) to make it stop trying to blend over sharp edges, BUT honestly subdiv + crease still tends to create some weirdness, so your main point stands.
I prefer the bevel modifier using weights + mean bevel weights. Easier to work with a low poly model that looks like a high poly model with loops. You can go back and make changes easier and it's just better for me. I also add the weighted normals modifier to smooth surface normals. Also, if you unwrap the model as a low poly with the bevel modifier in place, you can export it and put it in things like Substance Painter and the UVs are perfectly placed where the low poly edges would be even though you are texturing the high poly.
Very high quality tutorial, striking the very fundamentals of modelling. Thanks for this.
I typically only use creasing when I'm also making the edges sharp. E.g. inside corners/angles or thin outside edges. Also, after you apply the bevel modifier, just unmark seams and use seams_from_islands() to correct the seam placement. It's a bit annoying that this is only available from the UV viewport in recent releases, and this could definitely be automated by the modifier, but it's a useful tool, especially if you're working with contractor assets or imports.
Helpful, I've always used creases as much as possible or even exclusively because I thought it was better looking, easier to use and used less geometry but this clearly shows I was wrong in almost every regard. I'll have to get out of the habbit.
I just defaulted to using edgeloops cuz it felt like i had more control, but fixing or changing the mesh afterwards was always a pain in the butt. It never occurred to me that creasing existed.
The feet are so helpfull for a curved cloth tuft sorta bed which that curve is what im looking for so blessed so far ty
shift e, -1 turns creases to 0
I've never heard of the crease tool until this video and I understand why.
Im the 1000th viewer, Congrats!
The cute little thing looks like Chibi Robo :)
Now I finally understand why do people keep adding tons and tons and tons (help me saying "and tons") of edge loops!
And tons!
@@cg_cookie ;)
adding bevels for sharp corners is lot better than creasing, it gives better reflections and sharpening, and you can also control sharpness from both sides by sliding the supporting loops close or away from main edge,
i used to model with crease, but when i switched to maya, used supporting edge method, it's lot more powerful, and with this knowledge it's lot easier to get high paid jobs,
good studios will only hire modellers who can use this method, if you want high pay, you must learn this technique.
Thanks for the simple explanations :)
Crease is very helpful always with value 1 when you need to create complex hard surface smooth shape with a lot of angularity. after apply 2 or 3 levels of subdivisions and apply subdivision. after you have denser mesh to add smaller details on it such as buttons, connectors and etc.
I...think I might get this course when its out. I just started learning sub d workflows. Very nice, would like to learn howto keep poly count lower and figure out how to UV unwrap better. Let me just say UV unwarping is the worst.
I hope it helps! This might also be worth watching first if you want more on UVs in general: cgcookie.com/course/fundamentals-of-texturing-in-blender
I really hope devs can one day fix that UV issue you showed. I mean it could easily be an option, i think it should be default actually. This issue is kinda of annoying and has been there for years
Thank you! Very Helpful!
Great video!
Another option which I find myself using quite often is instead of rounding the edges at all, i use the bevel node.
Perhaps even go so far as using a bevel modifier with mean bevel weight, as its none destructive and way easier to edit. Once you use destructive bevel method, its very hard to edit
Tje bevel mod and weight act a bit more as using support loops. I find it to look better lots of times. Also because we can set the segments, its really create of adding detail
Very informative video.. I really like the non-destrictive modifiers of Blender.. coming from Lightwave 3D, it's so damn cool :) (oh btw, the audio could be a little less bass-heavy, my headset is killing me 🤣)
Sometimes I use two layers of subdivision - the first is set to "simple", this can create a similar effect although not sure what advantages it has other than being really easy and non destructive.
Would creases be good to use if you were making something that needs a super sharp edge, like a sword or knife?
How this problem (uv map in non-destructive workflow) is handled by other softwares? There are some solutions that Blender could look up to?
I really like the content, but why didn't you use auto smooth or weighted normals with creases?
When I model anything with subdiv I almost always use one of those or even both when I need a proper looking shading, no matter the method of making shapes, but especially when use creases.
And if saving an editability of a mesh is at consideration - creases is the best option, maybe with slight use of bevel as a modifier.
I didn't think to mention auto smooth since I generally try to avoid the razor sharp edges if at all possible, but it certainly makes sense in some situations. I haven't seen a good use case for using weighted normals with subdiv (only with low poly and beveled stuff), so I'd be curious to see an example if you want to shoot one over via twitter or our discord -JL
Autosmooth & sharp edges are not supposed to work with subdiv at all, it's just blender does it weirdly but they're planning to change it in the future.
Creases are not great either, they won't give you proper shading and they won't transfer to other softwares unless you're only using blender.
When do you think the course will be up on the site? Looks cool
1:46 - you can use Ctrl+Shift+R instead
I'm surprised that sharp edges with auto smooth was never mentioned. I exclusivly use creases that are set to 1 and usually set those same edges to sharp. I pretty much only use this setup for edges that point inwards.
7:50 what is you select your edge loops and pull them up the desired axis while using proportional editing? Would that not work the same?
1:12 much easier way is select the edges, bevel them, use low threshold and turn up profile
Does the best practise is to apply all your modifiers before doing UV unwrapping?
Yo what is the material you have applied here? That's nice
#Gold
This is a complete misunderstanding of how crease functions and how you should use it. Crease is meant to have supporting geometry, but it's designed with evenly spaced geometry as it's control. use of it can be VERY powerful this way, as you can then add extra details in the even spaced quads and the mesh basically support ITSELF without having to add any extra geometry. also if you use it right, it makes transitions from soft and hard edges INCREDIBLY simple work, to the point it's almost two or three clicks.
im having problem for sculpting , topology gets dense toward bevels so it doesnt spread out well and even with millions of polygons not good for sculpting , how could i solve this?
all higher poly use cases?
i know UE5 is gonna make lowpoly stuff for a lot of objects needless for anyone who uses UE5 but anything animated still has to be retopo'd.
seems like creases would be more useful in those instances to control shape and edges while still keeping a low subsurf. the higher poly look gets baked into a texture yea?
am i missing something that would make this a pointless usecase?
Good question! I would generally avoid subdiv for anything low poly or game-ready (even in UE5...), so I haven't thought about it much. What would be an example where you would use subdiv for low poly except for maybe applying it at the very beginning? -JL
@@cg_cookie i tend to apply subdiv (usually just 1 or 2 levels) after box modeling and using crease to get the shapes and edges i want.
after that i remove the loops i don't want, then on to uvs and texture painting.
maybe the way i do things is kind of weird.
it's based off of this video i saw a while back about how they used subdiv at pixar for different things to get the shapes they want without having to model a lot of complex forms and it lets them turn down the subdiv to make the viewport more responsive.
some of the examples they showed were pretty old stuff but i realized that after the subdiv they were actually still as low poly as many modern (maybe not so modern anymore) game objects.
it's mostly just me playing around for my own amusement and i can't say most of it is worth looking at.
Ah that makes sense though to get the initial shapes right. Thanks for the full explanation!
I thought this course was releasing in August.
It was supposed to, but I couldn't finish it in time. Sorry about that!
how did you enable being able to see the tris and faces at the bottom right on 2.93?
Ehm... aren't those artifacts just normals being mean to blender ? :O
That's fixable with an auto normal, or a weighted normal modifier :I (?)
Wouldn't that mean that creases are highly useless in most of the cases?
Like, if you can do everything with Support Loops
There's gotta be more uses than just some small or distant geometry
9:54 is there any reason to use the subdivision modifier on this object at all? Surely you can reach the same result with just the bevel modifier?
Subd gives a better shading and smoothness. Now, you need this amount of detail doesn't depend on how simple the object is, but how close the viewer is from it as stated.
And of course, the purpose of the mesh
@@noturne54 Smoother in what way exactly?
@@merren2306 Smooths out the curvature of the mesh.
@@noturne54 doesn't a bevel with a higher segment count achieve the same using fewer polys?
Holding edges = Support Loops?
How about weighted normals?
ok, but what about Mark Sharp function?
That would look better, but if going that route why use subdiv in the first place? In a few cases it might make sense, but most of the time I think it would be a waste of polys
It is quite sad how a completely non-destructive workflow is still not really an option.
Watch this tutorial: ruclips.net/video/v9CXeprYW1M/видео.html
Sure you used shade smooth and it worked but it won't work if you want to 3d print.
creases without edge groups , selection Sets, edges poly edit modifier and only with manual selection all the time is pain in the a.. in blender even 3.3 have nothing dev. since 2.8. and the non destr.workflow is crap...
Max is a dream to work with edges and blender miss a develpment point since years, but I know blender is vertex only...
So it is what it is.. for beginner okay for Iteration modelling non destructiv modelling its hard...
imagin you can select control edge parameter from a list and control creases, hard edges withhout selecting all over again & again the whole time . not only your mouse hand would love it, (time is money)
p.s. or you can delete your Support loops after cage baking with one click...dream..
So for modelling Max s is King..
never even heard of a crease loopcuts are way easier that I never bothered to learn something so complex
why not just sharpen the edges to fix shading?
That would look better, but if going that route why use subdiv in the first place? In a few cases it might make sense, but most of the time I think it would be a waste of polys
@@cg_cookie I mean with the crease method. you can get really good shading with less geo even for big details.
2:20 how the hell were you selecting those edges so quickly?
The magic of video editing 😄 Don't want to waste people's time!
Hold Control and select vertex/edges/faces
your mics a bit bass boosting me but good tutorial
but its non reversable... Thats why I always use creases, its non destructive
👍👍👍👍👍
Kinda drepressing how much extra steps you have to take to get this really basic stuff done in blender
The polygon count doesnt matter if youre planning to use in on ue5 though, the future is bright.
Ngl Pothead (nice name) kinda looks like Chibi Robo.
great video, but please equalize your audio not to be this boomy next time.. I have really good speakers and the audio is really rich in low-frequency sounds.. on a good quality headset it's even worse.. it's not great for my ears.
Me with 1 bevel segment and Weighted normal , what that's easy with just 1k tris.
All those problems want me to stop learning 3D modeling.
The creased model looks like trash simply because you didn't turn auto-smooth on, which is really doing people a disservice and making creases look worse then they are. In fact, they all look like they're made of soft materials because you're not using auto-smooth.
There's really no reason not to when doing hard-surface, since it keeps your flat planes flat. While keeping the rounded look of the edges.
That would definitely look better, but if going that route why use subdiv in the first place? In a select few cases it might make sense, but most of the time I think it would be a waste of polys. Besides the bevel shader (which is awesome) and weighted normals (which also relies on the amount of geometry and suffers the same issue), how does auto-smooth keep the rounded look of the edges?
I have a better technique with creases
Thanks for sharing
The rest of the community :argue about subdivision surfaces and bevels
Me using remesh to smooth my edges : Your politics bore me
Is this still relevant?
it is, creases is better avoided and if subdiv is not necessary, using auto-smooth and weighted normal modifier on the mesh with bevels or/and bevel modifier is polygon wise alternative, for hard surface without curves definitely. Only one thing... for some reason nobody actually understands new Blender doesn't have auto-smooth function anymore. It's only modifier now as far as I know. I use addon "old autosmooth" but anyway, for newest Blender, autosmooth is modifier, for older versions is here Properties > Data > Normals > Autosmooth checkbox (usually 30-60 degrees or something between these is used, depends on your project)
@@Jungheinz thanks
Loops? People are still using that tecnique?
it gives better results, and it's proper way to model something, atleast in industry
you will get paid more with this aproach
@@xd1845 no it doesn't
@@polygrind if you want to work in big studios, you will have to use supporting loops, you can't just depend on creases that much, you will need sharper corners and perfect reflections, you can only achieve that with supporting loops, not with creases.
@@xd1845 It's not creases
@@polygrind then what
first
less bass with your mic please :(
second
So langsam ey, typ biste echt ned hier.