Kukkunni: Historical King of Troy (14th Century BC)
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- Опубликовано: 30 мар 2023
- Legendary city of Troy is best known for its destruction by the Greeks, dated to c. 1200 BCE. However, besides the famous story of the Iliad, this city had a long-lasting history of its own. In this episode, we talk about the earliest historically recorded ruler of Ilion - king Kukkunni.
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📜 Sources & Further Read:
Gary Beckman (1995): Hittite Diplomatic Texts
#TrojanWar #ancientgreece #achaeanhistory #bronzeage #greekmythology #troy #wilusa
Basically, we must give thanks to the hittites for the information on the geopolitical state of Western Anatolia
Great video! There are interesting analogies in Hittite records: Alaksandu-Alexandros?, Kukkunni-Kyknos?, Tawagalawa-Eteocles?, Kagamuna-Agamemnon?, Attarisiya-Atreus?. Even if they are not the same with the known mythological figures, it would confirm that these names ran in the Bronze Age Aegean royal families.
This would be just another prove of the way the Greeks graecize all the pelasgian and Thracian names..
@@ionelghiorghita688This is a quality channel where we try to soberly exchange scholarly evidence. Why don’t you go elsewhere to discuss your fake propaganda with other delusionals?
I think attarisiya could be something Like atreides and not atreus, it would make more sense as agamemnon was more war Like, but it could even be atreus in a more primitive version of the name
@@alps. Oh, I know, you're not intelectual if you are not arrogant!
It's crazy to me we even have information left on 14th century BC.
Yeap, we are much smarter than many 'scienists' present us to be!!!
that human desire to be remembered
We have records from then
@@beepboop204 no, it's called bureaucracy, archived letters and so on...
@@zurgesmiecal its also monuments, tombs, and propaganda. even lists of items and debts and such, are meant to record in order to remember
This kind of information can't be found anywhere else on YT. I love this channel.
Thanks Sal. Appreciate it!
A very interesting program is on the maritime History podcast. 16 that covers what Hittite records and archeology reveal about what now seems a factual Mycenaean attack on Troy (Ilium). The design of boats of that time is explained as an important factor in analyzing the history.
Very informative! It is very rare to find such detailed analysis. If Kukkunni is indeed a rendering of Kyknos, then it might have been a popular name in the area since Achilles also slays a prince by that name in the early stage of the Trojan War, and I think several other minor legendary characters from the area went by that name.
Not much info on him, but enough context for content!
These videos fuel mine and everyone who watches your videos love and obsession of the Bronze Age.
This channel truly is a gem.
It'll be great a video about Alexander. It'll be an excelent complement of this video. Great job, thank you.
Thanks! Videos on Alexander and Walmu are planned as well.
Details from the history of Bronze age only in your channel, congratulations!
Thanks ΡΙΘΥΜΝΑ!
LOVE this channel!!!
Would the kings of Wilusa not speak the Anatolian language Luwi in stead of Mykenian Greek?
and Alexandros not be the Greek rendering of the Luwi name Alaksandu? Greeks did render all foreign names to their liking, Khufu became Cheops, Xšayār̥šā became Xerxes.
No and yes. Everyone rendered foreign names in a memmorable way adapted to their own language features. The ancient Greeks were not an exception, as they literally translated the foreign names in Greek in many occasions. However, the Hittites did exactly the same, so we can’t be sure if the Greek or the Hittite rendering is the original. Let alone that during the Iron Age many individuals in Anatolia ran with dual names (Greek and Anatolian version), which certainly reminds us of the duo Paris/Alexandros. Alaksandu specifically shows no Anatolian structure or etymology, so it is more likely it is a rendering of Alexandros. In other cases, the opposite may be more likely. One would expect the Hittites would record something sounding like Paris not Alaksandu, which makes the finding interesting. In general, dual names could reflect a perplexed multilingual environment, due to multi-ethnic composition of the population or the royal families themselves (intermarriages).
because the name alexander or at least its female version appears on mycenean linear b tablets as one of the names of hera ,alexandru also doesn't agree with the onomstic luwian names we have found as well ,the name alexander does though greeks used multiple names like this for example alexios,alexandridas,aleximachus,alexamenus ect the name alexandru also appears in what was troy at a time where greek influence in asia minor had been increased
i need to dig more into this area. Great upload!! :D now, peanut butter sandwich bowl! COMIN UP excite
Great video ❤
Thank you! Appreciate it as always. Looking forward to your new video!
You should visit this place!
Just a suggestion, in the map of Mycenaean influence area you didn't include west Thessaly, this is wrong because the kingdoms of Trikki, Ithome and Oichalia who ruled from Podaleirios and Machaon son's of Asclepius take part in the Trojan war.
Good point. The focus was on Troy so I actually didn't put too much attention on where exactly I was drawing the line. But you're right!
@@WanaxTVapart from western Thessaly you may also check the borders in western Greece. Ephyra and the necromancery of Acheron in Epirus have Mycenean remains. Last but not least, the Mycenean world should not be equated with the Greek bronze age world. Not only because of the survival of other prehestoric identities among Myceneans, but also because of the existence of northwestern Greek tribes in Epirus and Macedonia. The maps could show them also beyond the Mycenean territory.
"I can't turn you Wilusa, if I do I'm gonna lusa my mind..." with apologies to Otis Redding.
Believe it or not, my last name is Kukuni. I am Greek. And am archaeologist by profession.
Qfar domethenie ka fjala kukuni perkthejeni ne anglisht domethenien
I have decided to believe you.
Good 4 U . I love history
Çdo gjuh i njeh fjalt e huaja ashtu si i përshtatet gjuhës se saj nëse se njeh at gjuh. Por kur e njeh e kupton si ata👶
I was named after this city
good luck sending someone an email
"Hi, my name is troy, please click the links and download and open the attachments...
That's the bame by the hittites?
Hittites were Allies to the trojans .The name of the greek king was Agamemnon non gagamemnon. This is how hittites could pronounce it. Thus trojan king's name kukumi again is how hettites could pronounce it.Trohan King's nephew was Ajax fighting for the Greeks as Leader of his troops. The geonomogical tree or trôjan Kings could be found on ancient written sources. Hettites fought against Egyptians as well, and then Alex ( greek name 66 time appears in iliad as pyrros and Neoptolemus as well as stated hither, appears in different sound in hettites documents. All this would question the relationship between trojans and hettites as established hither
Very interesting, TY.
However my mind became focused on the early statement of "a thousand ships" (re. the Trojan War): is that even possible?, I wonder. In the Second Punic War Rome had "only" 200 warships (and still clear naval superiority over Carthage) and in the very aftermath of the Trojan War the destruction of Ugarit was apparently caused by a mere seven ships. Thus the 1000 ships figure seems like a highly inflated one, IMO.
1000 Homeric ships :)
IIRC, in Illiad there is enumeration of ships and commanders, and this does not come to 1000.
Yes? Why is this impossible? The Island of Dana, location for Danaus, the guy who BROUGHT the concept of Shipbringing to Greece in Greek legends, had a harbor for 260 ships. The Sea Peoples were all over this island. There is also evidence they had multiple bases all over cyprus. I don't see why 250 Ships from Dana alone accounting for 25% isn't reasonable?
@@kvici - Per the catalog of ships (Illiad) it's exactly 1116 ships.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalogue_of_Ships
@@giffica - I think the Greeks were excellent sailors even before invading Greece (by sea from Montenegro) but their city states were not more powerful than Rome or Carthage when taken together, so I still find the figure very far fetched, unrealistic.
@@LuisAldamiz en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Island
According to recent research, there were many shipyards in Dana Island, probably dating to the Late Bronze Age (c. 1200 BC). Assistant professor Hakan Öniz says that the island was the largest proven shipyard in the ancient world
As you see this shipyard is 1/3rd of the force of the Iliad. It accounts for the Danaoi, who were 1/3rd of the Greek coalition. The Achaens are another 1/3rd
I think you should not make claims like "greece was small" in that era when we dont know yet how big it was. The vast majority of Greek territory is located in Turkey who has systemically covered up evidence of ancient greece so its hard tk verify. Archrology is ripe with propaganda.
The king of Argos, or Sparta, or who was the wanax in 1450 BC who sent messengers to meet Thutmose iii?
- I know who of my predecessors conquered it but i don't know who of my predecessors lost it afterwards because it's too long ago - lol
Propaganda was so cute back then
And whit a diplomatic charm of "actually it dosent mater because it was long ago. Lets be friends"
@@joaoespecial4168the easiest way to hide the truth.
what about King Priam was he even a real figure?
Vajon, miért jött Troy népe ...a
Kárpát - medencébe ? .....
- mit gondoltok ?
:)
They didn't, they were all ready relatives. Homer is saying about the Thracians coming to help them relatives and Ahile is known to be born in Danube delta. Instead they got to Rome and tech them the romanian language! 😅Possibly very true!
Pedig olvasható, hogy kelet európába mentek , s itt alapitják - "Sicambriát -
Karpat- medencében.....
what was his greek name? troy just had 3 monarchs Ilos, Laomedon and Priam according to the iliad.
they were myths
I had a Staff dog when i was younger called TROY, Loved that name for my dog, never knew anything about Troy city being a kid at the time
Është shqip,dhe tregon për një fatkeqësinë dialektin geg,gig,grek dhe do të thotë KU KU NE.this is in albanian.arvaniti/arbaniti.
in leanguish albania gegh old dialect translate is may head uni kukuni
lol kukuni isn't the actual name but the hittite version
haha .only in albanian leanguish is the truth @@wankawanka3053
@@esonago4948 you are such an embarrassment haha
@@esonago4948Where's the evidence, monkey?
@@wankawanka3053😂 it doesn’t matter! There’s an Albanian translation for everything!
LONG LIVE TROJANS 🇹🇷💪
Bro used the homosexual flag for troy😂😂😂
@@wankawanka3053 no because this 🇬🇷 is the HOMOSEXUAL ⚣ FLAG 😉
So the Mongolian Turks worshipped Greek Gods
@@cosmomusa that is the thinking the TROJANS didn't worship GEY greek gods but HITTITE GODS LIKE the storm GOD TARHUNTA AND ILUYANKA
@@cosmomusa the TURKS are the only successors of the TROJANS and not GEY greeks or HOMOSEXUAL europeans 😉
🙂🙃🙃😂🙂🙂
What are u? 4 year old? Wtf🤣👉
🇺🇲🧟♂️🍔🍟🍿
Kukkuu!
Kuka siellä?
Imagine what the last 500,000+ years of humanity looked like. You are correct, whatever you imagined, it has most likely happened at some point.
So, fall of Troy caused Bronze Age collapse.
Not sure where anyone has read the word greek or helen in Troy. The actual book never used those names. But he used pellasgian, dardanian, illyrian. Troy was populated by the illyrian tribes of Brigas( frageans) and myze. Ruled by a Dardanian dynasty. Look in all ancient maps and locate these tribes, and you will find the actuar castle of troy. It is not in anatolia or Turkey. Ilios means star in illyrian. There were many cities called ilios during that time. Homer said there were 2 rivers sorrounding Troy. There are no rivers in this region where Troy was found in today Turkey. The walls he said are massive. There are no massive wall found in Troy. There is a mountain next to the castle where zeus and other gods watched the battle. There are no mountains found in Troy. You could have watched the pellasgian sheeps from the walls of Troy. The shore line of that Troy is 100 miles away. Maybe they had better vision then. Then homer said there was the vast sea behind the pellasgian sheeps anchored in front of Troy. Well there is the dardanelles in Turkey where supposedly the sheeps were anchored. The Thracians who were allies of Troy could have burned them to the ground. There were forest next to Troy where timber was taken to build staff. There are no forests in the vicinity of Troy. Wow..I can continue and still not find one similarity. So where is the real Troy? Was Troy a city or a region. The pellasgians raviged all castles around Troy. How many castles are in the region where Troy supposedly has been found? Zero. Homer's masterpieces were re-written in the 7th century by the anatolians(greeks) in their new language because the old greek dialect dissappeared after the sllavic invasion and other asian tribes that moved in this region. First they had to translate the book from illyrian to greek. It was at this time that helen was added to the new version of the book. Now everyone is confused and go with it. It is so sad, to see people spend money and go to see Troy in Turkey. What a lie. Does any one know what Troy means? If this was a greek city, then what does it mean? Actually if you buy property in this small country today and register it to the title company it is called ( Troja, Trojet) . Right there in the title it states this is your troy(troja). Troy means property, land that belongs to you. You own it. So in a few words. The war of Troy was the biggest civil war between all the illyrian tribes of north and south. This ensures that Troy is on the adriatik see . Read the book Troy by Elena Kocaqi. You will learn something.
Elen say bullshit
troy had trojans who are never comsidered illyrian or dardanian in the iliad , greeks get called achaians and many other names ,i can tell that you are a pathetic albanian so please tell when exactly were the illyrian called albanian or even sqhiptar in all of history i would love to know 😂
Maurico Druon, secretary of the French Academy: "Albanians belonging to those people older than History itself. Albanian grandparents participated in the war of Troy, led by Achilles (on one side) and Hector (the other side) ".
Troy was a battle between North Albanians/ Illyrians Gheg und South Albanians/Pelasgians Tosk. Helen was never the reason! There were some religious conflicts between Illyrians and Pelasgians.
Troy was not a city, but a region with 12 communities in North Albania. You find all the myths of that time stamped on the North Albanian folkloric costumes.
Aksend ,,troy,,end ,,shkodra,,illyrian,pellazgjan,,pipell,,,troajan. Historia,,pellazjan,,,,homerian,,spik,,,albanian,,truth,,histori,,,,troja pellazge ,,aksend. ,,shkodra ,,no no ,troja,turqia,,,Anatolia,,no,,,,troja ,,shkodra,,,aksend
Moussaka ,,,, orange juice,,,, chairs ,,,, Back pain ,,,, Lamia ,,,, kato patisia ,,,, when you have a piece of lettuce on your teeth ,,,, sea breeze ,,😂😂😂😂
Go take your medications.
Do you know what you are talking about. For a start: when is Greece created, obviously you don't know and you talk about. When Troy was created? you have two mixed happenings. Greece is created 1832 AD, and Troy is 1200BC, what got to do Troy with something not existing for 3000 years. A concurred city states, be Aleksandar, then Roman emperor, then ottoman emperor, and you talk about Greece. I think you better study history or check on this name:Greece: (OTTO THE FIRST AND THE ONLY ONE KING OF GREECE. German Bavarian: Otto Fredrich Ludwig von Bayern, 1 June 1815 - 26 July 1867 AD) was a first Bavarian Prince as a King who Ruled Greece from the establishment of the monarchy on 27 May 1832, under the Convention of London, until he was deposed on 23 October 1862. Prove me, if I'm wrong. The history is gone up to shit.
stop crying so much lol greece gets name dropped all the time in ancient sources 😉
Albanian,,spik,,,homerian,,,pellazjan pipell,,illyrian,,truth dhe historihjan,,,home ri,,,leka i math,,ylli,,Dia drita
🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱
They are Today’s Albanians
No they weren’t. The albanian ethnogenesis dates to the 6th century AD and was the result of contact with the invading pagan Slavs somehwere in the central Balkans.
In what dream you saw that
😂 great joke
@@Elstocks21 according to you Serbs are the oldest people on earth 🌍
@@shefkipajaziti1181Your joke is so funny it made me nearly die of laughter💀💀💀
This is nonesense. Hittites were not real. Find proof from any ancient writer that mentions hitiites. And name them
Ramses II, Tukulti-Ninurta I, the tablets of Byblos and Ugarit.
😂😂 the war happened in albania the city of Lezha and the war was between ilirian and pellazg people not greek read the homer it is not the place in turky
Hahaha Albanian fantasies be like
@@wankawanka3053every video about Ancient Greek history there’s always some Albanian claiming it’s Albanian and not Greek.
Literally every video!
jealousy i guess@@malamatinas1
MY ANCESTOR 🇹🇷🔪💪☝️
Your ancestors are from Mongolia....where the celestial Turks had their first khaganate....As a Turk you have nothing common with that area...Your ancestors conguested these lands centuries later.....and finaly since you conquested these lands you have added NOTHING .....Just mosques.....Thousands of tourists that go to Turkey are going to admire the magnificent Roman , Greek and Hellenistic ancient cities,temples , mosaics , ancient theatres...etc etc....not the mosques....
Your Turkish mongol not Trojan
@@kingafar816 and you are HOMOSEXUALS and have nothing to do with the TROJANS only TURKS 🇹🇷💪☝️
😂😂😂😂
@@wankawanka3053🏳️🌈🇬🇷 ⚣
Fantasia me greke kur nuk kishte greke. Is fantasize with Greeks where this Greeks was not egziston .fantasies historian.
Cry poor Albanian you have no history 😂
Troy actually fell around 730 BC, and there was no Dark Age. Read Velikovsky's "The Dark Age of Greece" soon to be published; also my "Gods, Heroes and Tyrants".
You base your entire viewpoint on a single dude?