Montage M vs Juno 106: Can the Montage M AN-X Engine Duplicate a Juno-106?
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- The new AN-X virtual analog engine inside the Montage M is an amazing, capable synth engine? But can it duplicate the sound of a classic analog synth like the Juno-106? In this video I deconstruct a patch on my Juno-106, then try to see if I can recreate it on the Montage M using only the AN-X engine.
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0:00 Intro
0:19 The AN-X Engine
1:52 Select & Deconstruct Juno-106 Patch
3:52 Initial AN-X Patch Design
10:14 Turn Up the Resonance!
15:26 So How Close Was It?
#MontageM #ANX #Juno106 
Видеоклипы
Yamaha needs to update their filters to some different emulations of older Roland and Moog and Korg , Sequential vintage synths, and I think you'd get much closer. Great job Scott !
1985 "this juno is neat, but can't wait until we have affordable synths with digital oscillators, a nice digital stage piano and maybe one day, synths that play samples won't cost $200,000."
2023 "does it do a good juno?"
^ you win the synth-er-net today, my friend. 😂😁👊🏻
The difference that you're missing is that you are playing the Montage patch in the wrong octave. That's why it sounds brighter. Any tweets on the filter don't correct the brightness issue because either the Oscillators are tuned an octave too high or you are playing it an octave too high. Great video however because that would be the real test of the ANX engine
I'm playing it in the exact same octave...but now that I listen back to the video, what I think is going on is that the sub oscillator in the Juno is configured octaves below, and I set up the sub in the Montage only one octave below.
@ScottsSynthStuff And to my ears, the higher oscillator could be turned down a bit.
That was exactly what I was hearing too!
@@ScottsSynthStuff So far I remembrer, there is no choice for an extra octave below on the sub with the original Juno 106. But the Juno have a bass boost on the HPF filter when is set to 0
😂
Emulation of different sounds is not only a challenge but a sound designer's constraint, which does make one creative and experienced. I'm sure many 80's bands couldn't afford Brand X synthesizer tried to emulate their favorite patches or upgraded to another brand, but still created something wonderful that helped a song hit the charts. Limitations aren't all bad. Thanks for the lesson, I think I will give it a try on my Hydrasynth tonight. Who knows what fun I will discover!
The Hydra is a very capable synth.
Once seen, the rogue hair is never unseen! lol Great comparison video, cheers!
My m8x got delayed by a month and I’ve been given a free MODX6 rental while I wait. You’re not making the wait easy! Fantastic attempt at recreating the analog sound of the mighty Juno 106. Please keep the Montage M videos coming
Really like that hair sticking up... it kinda looks like an antenna that you're getting advanced knowledge from - an alien source to provide us with inside information!
Great video! I think the Montage offers the best effects and filters. I have played the 106 extensively and LOVED it over many other synths. I still favor the Oberheim (OB-8 back in the day). I really want the Montage M, but, for now, my analog is Omnisphere only because of the AMAZING audio interface in the Montage. Hope to get the Montage M someday. As a giggling musician, my Montage is well worn not looking pristine enough for resale. Anyway. I always look forward to your videos!!
I think that will have made quite a few Juno owners smile.
Bit cubic zirconia Vs diamond in the end. Both shiny.
Consumers won't/don't care and can't tell the difference, but it's everything to a synth head.
I also like to program old Jupiter 8 and Juno 106 and JX8p sounds. I currently have a Fantom 7 and a Korg Nautilus, and I've made quite a few sounds for the Nautilus. Mainly Juno 106, JX8p sounds, but also a lot of Jupiter 8 and I was able to get it pretty close to the original. I plan to buy Montage M7 and sell Fantom 7. I feel that sound programming will be fun for me with Montage M. I have already programmed a lot of sounds mainly for the Roland Fantom 7, for example Jean Michel Jarre sounds, and JP8K sounds, which I also did for the Nautilus, but I got even closer to the real sound. This is a very good thing to learn to program.
Winner by knockout ---Juno 106 and every other Analog synth
You know!! I have to chuckle a bit inside... This was a great video... but I'm kinda realizing tonight I'm sure spending a lot of time watching tons of YT videos and I love them (esp yours!).. I recently posted my first live setup back in the late 70's early 80's on a Facebook group and was amazed at how many of us started out just having fun with a Farfisa 345 and a Leslie cabinet and a string synth... and then maybe a decent piano to sound "decent" and it was rough..... Now.... 40 years later, here we are comparing super powerful synths and sounds and getting caught up in GAS!!! LOL!!! I'm not complaining because I am 100% guilty of it!!! Now that I have all this "stuff" I just want to get back to just playing and creating or copying sounds (if you're playing live, etc).... I wonder if we're all subliminally getting sucked into all this gear and complex MIDI routings, effects chains, and all these DAW features that we're forgetting to actually just "play" and "create" your own thing..... :) Again, I am 100% guilty as charged with all this!! I think there's quite a few out there that feel that way... IDK...
100% Guilty as charged 😂😅
That was delightful Scott❤
Thanks Dom! Just a bit of fun.
The Juno was my first synth and my first love. It was on ALL my songs in the 80's and early 90's. You are spot on about the filter and stepping "issue". It's always the issue with emulations of vintage synths. There is also a classic detune wobble in the Juno that is also unique and does interesting things in a mix that are hard to precisely reproduce. Is the ANX good enough? For the Juno I'd say yes. But the 106 is easy. Let's try an old Arp or an OBXa sound.
I would really say the Juno 106 wins this one. Of course with more tweaking you might actually get closer.
The right tool for the job I adhere to. If I want analog, I want to use a full analog synth. Granted the M sounds great however, but it falls a bit short on that creaminess of a full real analog.
It would be cool if they in the future could add ai to listen and analyze an input signal and figure out closest setting. Great video Scott. It’s definetly a great synth engine. There is no va synth that is perfect. But they are getting better and better. I still like the Kronos too. Incredible what people can get out of its 3 va engines, even the ms20 and polysix is definetly not perfect replicas of the real ones. However I do like that eg the polysix have way more polyphony than the originals. Yamaha need to up the polyphony of the anx to at least 16, better yet 32 notes
Its like comparing a Tesla spaceship with a beetle car from the 40´s but i get the message. A very cool interesting post. One thing to point out is... how long did it take to create the AN-X sound? Thats a valid question. The time put in to a finished product is important.
Nice exercise and good way to test parameters editing. Good results in few seconds. I am really bored by all these comments about juno playing better. Those analog fanatics are so old fashioned. Keep working with old machines, guys, if you like them.
Recreating existing sounds is harder than just creating new ones, haha.
In addition to the octave thing, the Juno when the HPF is off actually has a bass boost in effect. You could use the EQ in the Montage to replicate this.
Maybe using the 2 filters together in the AN-X engine could get the resonance sounding closer? Filter resonance seems to be the hardest thing to get right in a VA synth.
The new forthcoming Yamaha M softsynth computer program might have some additional programming capabilities but we shall soon find out in 2024. Yes more advanced updated filters would help. Conversely what can the M ANx do that the Juno can not?
Two good points - yes, the AN-X can do FAR more than the Juno can.
19:33 you can get a perfect filter sweep even with only 127 steps ( midi cc's ) if the synth has an internal smoothing algo to interpolate between values
The old nord lead ( almost 30 years) did it
Hey Scott, perhaps also shifting or playing an octave lower on the montage would make listening to the approximation easier
I'm playing it in the exact same octave...but now that I listen back to the video, what I think is going on is that the sub oscillator in the Juno is configured octaves below, and I set up the sub in the Montage only one octave below.
I've found there are some really good Juno recreations available for the regular Montage & MODX. Depending on the particular patches needed, you might not even need the AN-X engine to replicate some of the good sounds fairly close.
Still for those looking for great analog sounds, a computer and VST's are pretty hard to beat for the sonic variety, price or portability. There are several Juno 106 VST clones include some made by Roland. And yes, there are many VST's today that can do filter sweeps without noticeable stepping, but many older ones had that issue. Things have improved.
A friend of mine has an original Juno 106 he used in his band, and I never found the Juno 106 to be that great for the kinds of analog sounds I'd use, with a few exceptions. His band liked my sounds so much better (coming mostly from VST's), that they told me they'd kick him out if I'd join. I said...no way. I wouldn't do that to someone, and especially not a friend of mine.
I'm generally more into the sound of the OB-X, Prophet 5 & Mini Moog and I use a lot of synth lead sounds. I play rock and not synth pop, but I've done some.
A MODX + a laptop with VST's, or a cheap iPad is much more capable than the AN-X engine of the Montage M, and a lot cheaper and lighter too.
Very true. I have Diva, Reveal Spire and Pigments and that gives me an amazing diversity of analog/wavetable 4-oscillator (Spire) capabilities. It is mind dazzling! Oh, and the three of them combined was $274.
Juno sounds better to me :) Not sure why emulate analog when 21th century analog technology is so much smaller and reliable than its 80s counterpart.
Great that you went to effort of doing this when you could just turn to your left and use the fantom 😂
I think the ANx was based on a Prophet 5. After Yamaha bought Sequential and all that. Those filters will sound different from the Juno I would think.
Can you do a Roland Juno plugin (ACB) vs the actual Juno shootout?🤓
I already have: ruclips.net/video/3VQjrYPrpVw/видео.html
When you play the Juno you have it an octave lower than the Montage...
I'm playing it in the exact same octave...but now that I listen back to the video, what I think is going on is that the sub oscillator in the Juno is configured octaves below, and I set up the sub in the Montage only one octave below.
I was noticing that too
@@ScottsSynthStuff Maybe the same octave on the keyboard, but not with the sound... just try it again transposed down -1 oct on the M ;)
Omg, Juno just hit on Montage face kkk 😂 analog just sound more right and real
Cool.
You can make a Montage sound 80% like a Juno, but you can not make the Juno sound 0,001% like a Montage haha
Your playing it an octave too high on the anx.
I'm playing it in the exact same octave...but now that I listen back to the video, what I think is going on is that the sub oscillator in the Juno is configured two octaves below, and I set up the sub in the Montage only one octave below.
This is the perfect example of why people buy analogue and virtual analogue synths. This sound took 30 seconds to perfect on the Juno and after 5-10 minutes a seasoned synth programmer only came halfway into the same ballpark. Workstations and all in one synths are great, but not for fast programing of good analogue type sounds.
Keep in mind the Juno is an extremely simple synth, with a single oscillator and limited modulation options - and those that are there, are hard-wired to specific sources. Flexible complex modern VA synths can do the same thing - but there are simple more things to modify, so it's going to take longer.
@@ScottsSynthStuff My point exactly,
Juno uses phase locked DCOs
Oh yes I forgot
indeed
Juno sounds better, Montage much more digital sounding.
Indeed Yamaha fail into this VA engine
Juno ftw. Roland is the best. It just makes eargasms…