As a Nord, Moog & Elektron loyalist, I love bare-bones raw synthesis...however, I had an opportunity to play the new Yamaha and I was thoroughly impressed with how sonically dynamic it was. It was both fat & sharp, while simultaneously delivering a satisfying depth. Yamaha nailed it!
@@modularreview1150 yet you can get a cracked version of the entire instrument vst MADE BY YAMAHA for free on your pc and wasted all your monthly for nothing. That's the problem with instruments that don't have analog components.
Just sold my Montage 8 and bought the Montage M8x and wow. I'm blown away at the touch of that keybed, all wood, and the hammer-grade action is amazing. THE PIANO'S ARE AMAZING!!!!!!! I will soon post videos of me playing it. Love your video exploring those analogy sounds OMG, can't wait to find everyone of those sounds you played.
@@John007Jackson and yet you wasted all your money as you can get the official yamaha vst for free posted by some guy on the internet. Lmao. Plus the montage m cheaped out on the power supply and uses a stock clavinova power supply literally zip tied into the instrument. That's what you paid $4500 for? Yikes. And piano vsts are significantly better, and as much as I hate Roland for ruining their reputation with their analog history of releasing instruments that sound worse than their vsts, their piano engine is THE best. Roland rd2000 EX is a significantly better performing piano keybed, significantly smaller and lighter, and actually has value.
Besides demonstrating some of the great capabilities of the instrument, the presentation with views and vantage point over the arena are impressive and aspirational.
Another analog snob here..! I always record with my analog gear, Cwejman, Moog, Oberheim, Studio-Electronics, Juno-60, MKS-70 and more. The big problem has always been getting these sounds translated to the stage, in a more workstation-esque format. With the Montage M, I can program loads of the basic analog sounds in the VA engine and then sample character stuff. The combination is EXTREMELY useful. The fact that each single sound can have 127 (!!!) parts puts this in Kurzweil territory in terms of flexibility... These are good times to be a keyboard player!
Inversely, it's not altogether uncommon to see keys players these days with a modern analogue synths on stage. Case in point, is Sam's rig with the Prophet 6. You see a lot of Sub-37s, Prophets, PolyBrutes, etc. on stage with their digital workstation cousins.
It's great that Yamaha has finally come up with a great virtual analog engine (apart from their mini reface CS which was not professional but a good intro) but now they need to put this into a more affordable package as the competition has had many options in this dept for a long time.
The Yamaha EX5 was the first synth to have the virtual analogue engine, duophonic, but sounds incredible; then there was the AN1x with basically the same engine, 10 note polyphony; then came the the PLG150-AN cards for in the CS6x, S80, S90, Motif, S90ES, MotifES, AN-200, etc. Yamaha had the technology, but abandoned it for decades. I'm super happy that it's back, but there are some other lost technologies as well: Virtual Acoustic (VL synthesis) in the VL1 and EX5, the plugged instruments kind of VA synthesis in the VP1, FDSP (in the EX5) and having your AWM waves being a carrier in your FM synthesis (SY77 & SY99).
Actually: The AN1x (1997) was the first one, one year before the EX5 (1998). I mixed them up, because I myself bought the EX5 the minute it came out and the AN1x just after it, lol.
I don't agree. Analog emulation is a normal thing on workstations since many years. Korg Kronos is a perfect example. Also Kurzweil has a way with VAST. Maybe MontageM is a powerful instrument (I will test it soon). Hopefully with a nice analog editing. I will buy it when its VST will be ready and running. I am used to play live with a computer and midi controllers so I would consider a Montage M8X to let it at home and carrying its library with me. I hope it will be possible. With Korg Keystage (light 61 keys controller with polyphonic aftertouch)
It's probably the better D/A conversion, but to my ears the sounds are a lot more crispy and 'digital' sounding than the original AN1X or PLG200 card. I have an AN200 and it has the PLG200 in it - which is effectively half of an AN1X. These sounds are more cold and less warm and I suspect that's because the Montage M has better D/A conversion than its predecessors the virtual analogue engine based upon.
Great demo and video showing off the AN-X engine. I love my M8x. There’s been a lot of complaining about the M6 and M7 not having PAT or the GEX key bed. To me for a live gig board the less weight and FSX key bed makes sense. I got the M8x as a stay in the studio board. It’s nice to see videos like yours getting out there that shows off the great sound and isn’t negative.
thanks! yeah I support making compromises to keep the weight down on this board. That's really the one big upside of the ModX6...so easy to take anywhere. As of now, I'm taking the montage around in a big road case and I'm definitely missing the convenience of the ModX in it's little backpack soft case.
@@AudioAtmos and yet you wasted all your money as you can get the official yamaha vst for free posted by some guy on the internet. Lmao. Plus the montage m cheaped out on the power supply and uses a stock clavinova power supply literally zip tied into the instrument. That's what you paid $4500 for? Yikes. And piano vsts are significantly better, and as much as I hate Roland for ruining their reputation with their analog history of releasing instruments that sound worse than their vsts, their piano engine is THE best. Roland rd2000 EX is a significantly better performing piano keybed, significantly smaller and lighter, and actually has value.
I've been eyeing this one closely even though I'm not a fan of most workstation style keyboards. But the thought of all Yamaha's engines - especially FM and AN now - under one hood is appealing. As for the analog stuff, most presets I've heard so far sound a bit generic. However, I've heard one or two where people really start twisting knobs and playing with circuit drift, etc., and I must say, it ventures eerily close to Prophet territory!
yeah it would be cool if they hadn't reserved the poly aftertouch for just the m8x. I don't find myself using that a whole lot anyway though. I probably would more if I wasn't playing it in a band context, where a lot of the nuances get lost. @@productamadeus8745
FYI, to those that may not know the M6 and M7 will receive complete PAT midi info from another controller/synth that has PAT. Not exactly a perfect solution, but nice to know.
We appreciate your video. And we especially appreciate the minimal talking. So many guys do reviews on this keyboard, and all you hear is blah blah blah blah blah. Thank you.
thanks! yeah I knew I wanted to show the sounds and also share a few thoughts, and it took some thinking to figure out how to balance those things. I tend to gravitate towards the "all sounds no talk" type of videos when I'm curious about a product.
yeah it would have been cool to have had it at the time of the tour rig video. One of the other keyboard players was bringing a prototype of it to rehearsals for the past year, so I already had some sense that it was capable of richer and deeper sounds than the ModX. I still have a lot of love for the ModX though...there's definitely a place for prioritizing weight and convenience.
I’m always hearing the argument of analog vs digital vs analog emulation but what most don’t understand is analog and digital are not the same including emulation. It not because of controls are warmth or aged circuits. What makes the real difference is a process called “antialiasing”. As in images , antialiasing is a process of limiting the amount of data a processor has to compute. To be effective at reproducing an analog sound in the exact same way it would need to be digitally recorded at around 1140kbps which is much higher than the max of 198kbps used in digital recording. Now most ears can’t tell the past 41kbps but surprisingly humans can hear with more than their ears. It is found hair follicles move with high frequency and body cavities will respond to low frequency sounds. True analog will always sound and feel better than digital due to down sampling.
Analog emulation, when done right, is very close to the real thing now. I don’t think many people can tell the difference. You have to listen to the same sound right next to each other, and even then it can be tricky. Check out Vulture Culture’s comparison of the Matrix 6 to the new Gforce OB-X plug-in with similar patches. It is very hard to tell the difference on some of the sounds.
Interesting observation. I’ve never had the chance to play an analog synth, so it’s interesting to hear you say it’s pretty good. My main question is how this compares to Roland’s offering (ZenCore) and the Korg Kronos/Nautilus only AL-1.
imo, I'm not very impressed with the Roland zen cores, but maybe I just never got why the big Phantom had to be that expensive. Have a Kronos 2 73 and nothing still beats its posibilities. I love the sound of the new Montage M. Definetly want one. Just wish I could combine the Yamaha quality keybeds with the Hydrasynth's touch strip. Would have been a true showstopper like the CS 80. At least Yamaha is moving forward while Korg is moving backwards. Like many others I have a feeling that the Nautilus just is the last iteration of the Oasys too squeeze the last money out of people while figuring out if it's worth it to make a new showstopper board.
I feel that the polyphonic aftertouch that's not in the m6/7 isn't that big of a deal as you still can assign this via an external midi source because its exactly the same operating structure. I'll be saving $$$ and getting the m6. ❤
It is a big deal, because ppl are buying workstations to have all in one box! It’s crazy even to think about buying a keyboard for 4.500€ and needing additional external MIDI controller to play it optimally. I think costumers should have some dignity and show to big brands that they can’t do whatever they want with crazy prices and still get our support. And BTW AN-X VA engine is nothing huge. Roland and Korg have virtual analog synth engines for a long time. And Roland will in Fantom add ACB sound engine with simple firmware update, comparing to Yamaha that discontinued old Montage and MODX for the sake of one additional sound engine. And BTW Roland ACB virtual analog engine is the best digital engine that emulates analog synths, because it’s modeling analog behavior. So instead of discontinuing old workstation and make new one that is almost the same as old one, just to sell it for crazy price Yamaha could make firmware update to old Montage, so old owners would not have to sell their old Montages and buy new for crazy price, because Roland and Korg are doing it on that way. Roland even expended user memory with firmware update, yet Yamaha discontinued MODX and introduced MODX+ to expend user memory.
IMHO, Yamaha not including PAT on the M6/M7 boards was a huge swing and a miss! Korg's Nautilus AT 61-key workstation may be a better alternative... they've had VA sound engines for quite some time now plus FM and physical modeling. If the lack of more physical buttons/knobs/sliders is not an issue for you, you'll be saving even more $$$!
These are some interesting points. I'm curious how the keyboard does over the longer term, because in a certain sense that will validate whether they provided the sounds and functionality that the market wanted. I'm very curious to try the Roland ACB engine now that you mention it.@@roggyo
@@roggyo ... I'm not so sure I understand why Roland would require, let alone be capable of, ACB when the Fantom series has the Zencore technology. From my understanding, they released Zencore because of complaints that ACB was a huge resource hog.
It sounds good on its own right, but it doesn't sound analog, not VCO at least, maybe late 80's DCO at best. In my opinion the best analog-sounding workstation is still the Kronos/Nautilus.
@@borispradel1037 someone that actually knows what they are talking about. As a korg Kronos 2 88 user, I can agree. Just look at dream theaters Jordan rudess.
Where is your Osmose? Seriously. For driving a lead or any single note mission.....that's the arrow I'd want in my quiver. Subscribed, TY for this one. PS: did you ever have a Access Virus?
Hey Sam, congrats on your channel. Cool stuff and informative. Can I ask you what in ear monitors you use/recommend? Or any considerations regarding in ears? I’m ready to buy a pair but have 0 experience with them . Thank you!
Hi Duakeys! so I'm actually yet to have a decent pair of IEMs. Right now I use the Shure 215s, and I don't like them. I also use those noise cancelling headphones that you'll sometimes see construction workers or people who work on airport tarmacs wear. I put those over my IEMs for even better isolation and it works very well, although it doesn't look very cool. I'm planning to get some molds done in the next month or so.
Bro, how many of the typical sounds [old, nothing new here] do you use in the songs from that concert? Any PAD only? With an SY-77 you would have had more than enough, greetings!
You mean, how many of the sounds in the concert are on the old MontagesModXs as well? Probably most of them actually. Since I just got the board I haven't had a lot of time to integrate new things into the set...and the set has been basically the same for a few months now.
I notice that you used on-ear or over-ear headphones in the short live clip you showed. Is that your usual monitoring setup or was it just because the Montage was a new board? Thanks
Good question! I use shure 215 in-ear monitors, and occasionally I put protective earphones over them...the kind construction workers or people who work on airport tarmacs use. I do this just for some extra isolation. I don't really like my IEMs, and it's just such a loud and boomy stage that the little bit of extra protection helps me have a clear sound.
yeah it's pretty steep for sure. If I'm going strictly off of price I'd choose the ModX. It can do most of what I need...and I have other boards for the analog sounds. That being said I do love the new Montage and a lot of the new features are very useful to me.
I'm not sure. One of the other guys in the band has a Kronos as part of his rig, but he uses it for completely different sounds so it's hard to say. I'll have to check it out.
The AN-X engine really changed the game for workstation synths. It obviously cannot do as many things as a Prophet or a Moog, but it's close. Add the ease of use that digital brings and it's a clear winner for the stage. It will never be a replacement for those classic synths, but it was never designed with that in mind.
How they changed the game? Roland and Korg workstations have virtual analog engines, FM synthesis and even wavetable synthesis for a long time. And in addition to all that Organ and piano engines comparing to Yamaha. Korg has even physical modeling synth engine in their workstations for a long time. Yamaha used to have in EX5 workstation from the end of 90s physical modeling, VA and FM synth engines in addition to samples. It’s EX5 was their last decent synth workstation, after they focused on samples and bred and butter sounds. So Yamaha with new Montage M showed that their synth department is still sleeping. It’s a pity, because they used to make good synths!
@@roggyo Good point. However, FM is a proprietary technology of Yamaha. I believe the FM sounds on the other boards are samples, not the actual operators that are on Yamaha boards. (correct me if I'm wrong on that). With the Montage series, you can start completely from scratch with the FM engine, add and structure the operators however you want, and then process the sound through their dedicated SmartMorph engine plus effects, of course. You have real-time control of the FM synthesis engine much the way you can control changes with subtractive/wavetable synthesis. I don't know that any other brand gives you that. FM synthesis has historically been complex and difficult, but the Montage series makes that much more user-friendly. With the Montage M series, you now have all of that synthesis control on top of their world class AWM2 samples. I almost bought a Kronos years ago because I always loved Kong synth sounds the most. Unfortunately back then I wasn't as financially well off as I am now, and anyway I've always loved Yamaha's AWM2 samples best. Now I have a Hydrasynth Deluxe sitting next to my Montage, LOL!
@@vanessajazp6341 FM is not proprietary of Yamaha, though they do a stellar job of implementing it. The 8 operator version in the montage does have some neat tricks though that's unique to that engine. I think where the Yamaha really shines is actually more to do with the quality of the outputs. They just sound very good, especially within a band context.
@@dynoroad Most literature I've seen over the years always notes FM synthesis as proprietary to Yamaha. It's a complex form of synthesis developed in the early 70's that never saw any success until the developer sold the rights to Yamaha and they used it for their groundbreaking DX keyboards. Almost every #1 hit from the mid-80's had a DX somewhere in the mix.
@@georgegeorgio1751 you can believe them of course, but my ears hear it as a top clear quality synth. It sounds huge in all senses. I hope I will release a sound library for this synth soon, to show how it can be good.
@@X22GJP i didn't claim that as well. It's a virtual analog engine. Now VA's have progressed quite a bit. If you want a point of comparison then for example the Nord Lead A1 sounds way more convincing as a VA. The sounds coming out of the AN-X sound like a 90's VA, very digital and not very convincing as an analog emulation
As a Nord, Moog & Elektron loyalist, I love bare-bones raw synthesis...however, I had an opportunity to play the new Yamaha and I was thoroughly impressed with how sonically dynamic it was. It was both fat & sharp, while simultaneously delivering a satisfying depth. Yamaha nailed it!
@@modularreview1150 yet you can get a cracked version of the entire instrument vst MADE BY YAMAHA for free on your pc and wasted all your monthly for nothing. That's the problem with instruments that don't have analog components.
Just sold my Montage 8 and bought the Montage M8x and wow. I'm blown away at the touch of that keybed, all wood, and the hammer-grade action is amazing. THE PIANO'S ARE AMAZING!!!!!!! I will soon post videos of me playing it. Love your video exploring those analogy sounds OMG, can't wait to find everyone of those sounds you played.
@@John007Jackson and yet you wasted all your money as you can get the official yamaha vst for free posted by some guy on the internet. Lmao. Plus the montage m cheaped out on the power supply and uses a stock clavinova power supply literally zip tied into the instrument. That's what you paid $4500 for? Yikes. And piano vsts are significantly better, and as much as I hate Roland for ruining their reputation with their analog history of releasing instruments that sound worse than their vsts, their piano engine is THE best. Roland rd2000 EX is a significantly better performing piano keybed, significantly smaller and lighter, and actually has value.
Besides demonstrating some of the great capabilities of the instrument, the presentation with views and vantage point over the arena are impressive and aspirational.
Another analog snob here..! I always record with my analog gear, Cwejman, Moog, Oberheim, Studio-Electronics, Juno-60, MKS-70 and more. The big problem has always been getting these sounds translated to the stage, in a more workstation-esque format. With the Montage M, I can program loads of the basic analog sounds in the VA engine and then sample character stuff. The combination is EXTREMELY useful. The fact that each single sound can have 127 (!!!) parts puts this in Kurzweil territory in terms of flexibility... These are good times to be a keyboard player!
Inversely, it's not altogether uncommon to see keys players these days with a modern analogue synths on stage. Case in point, is Sam's rig with the Prophet 6. You see a lot of Sub-37s, Prophets, PolyBrutes, etc. on stage with their digital workstation cousins.
You used 2 of my factory Performances in the demo 👍😁😎
Awesome! which ones? Thank you for your amazing work!
It's great that Yamaha has finally come up with a great virtual analog engine (apart from their mini reface CS which was not professional but a good intro) but now they need to put this into a more affordable package as the competition has had many options in this dept for a long time.
The Yamaha EX5 was the first synth to have the virtual analogue engine, duophonic, but sounds incredible; then there was the AN1x with basically the same engine, 10 note polyphony; then came the the PLG150-AN cards for in the CS6x, S80, S90, Motif, S90ES, MotifES, AN-200, etc.
Yamaha had the technology, but abandoned it for decades. I'm super happy that it's back, but there are some other lost technologies as well: Virtual Acoustic (VL synthesis) in the VL1 and EX5, the plugged instruments kind of VA synthesis in the VP1, FDSP (in the EX5) and having your AWM waves being a carrier in your FM synthesis (SY77 & SY99).
Actually: The AN1x (1997) was the first one, one year before the EX5 (1998). I mixed them up, because I myself bought the EX5 the minute it came out and the AN1x just after it, lol.
I don't agree. Analog emulation is a normal thing on workstations since many years. Korg Kronos is a perfect example. Also Kurzweil has a way with VAST.
Maybe MontageM is a powerful instrument (I will test it soon). Hopefully with a nice analog editing. I will buy it when its VST will be ready and running. I am used to play live with a computer and midi controllers so I would consider a Montage M8X to let it at home and carrying its library with me. I hope it will be possible. With Korg Keystage (light 61 keys controller with polyphonic aftertouch)
It's probably the better D/A conversion, but to my ears the sounds are a lot more crispy and 'digital' sounding than the original AN1X or PLG200 card. I have an AN200 and it has the PLG200 in it - which is effectively half of an AN1X. These sounds are more cold and less warm and I suspect that's because the Montage M has better D/A conversion than its predecessors the virtual analogue engine based upon.
Great demo and video showing off the AN-X engine. I love my M8x. There’s been a lot of complaining about the M6 and M7 not having PAT or the GEX key bed. To me for a live gig board the less weight and FSX key bed makes sense. I got the M8x as a stay in the studio board. It’s nice to see videos like yours getting out there that shows off the great sound and isn’t negative.
thanks! yeah I support making compromises to keep the weight down on this board. That's really the one big upside of the ModX6...so easy to take anywhere. As of now, I'm taking the montage around in a big road case and I'm definitely missing the convenience of the ModX in it's little backpack soft case.
@@SamGutman So would you welcome a lightweight less costly ModX6 like version of the new series?
for sure. I did just come from the ModX6 though. The number one thing I miss about it is the size and weight.@@georgegeorgio1751
@@SamGutman And the thing i'll like about it is that it would be affordable.
@@AudioAtmos and yet you wasted all your money as you can get the official yamaha vst for free posted by some guy on the internet. Lmao. Plus the montage m cheaped out on the power supply and uses a stock clavinova power supply literally zip tied into the instrument. That's what you paid $4500 for? Yikes. And piano vsts are significantly better, and as much as I hate Roland for ruining their reputation with their analog history of releasing instruments that sound worse than their vsts, their piano engine is THE best. Roland rd2000 EX is a significantly better performing piano keybed, significantly smaller and lighter, and actually has value.
I've been eyeing this one closely even though I'm not a fan of most workstation style keyboards. But the thought of all Yamaha's engines - especially FM and AN now - under one hood is appealing. As for the analog stuff, most presets I've heard so far sound a bit generic. However, I've heard one or two where people really start twisting knobs and playing with circuit drift, etc., and I must say, it ventures eerily close to Prophet territory!
I wish they would do a wavetable engine as well. That and poly aftertouch and I’m sold!
yeah it would be cool if they hadn't reserved the poly aftertouch for just the m8x. I don't find myself using that a whole lot anyway though. I probably would more if I wasn't playing it in a band context, where a lot of the nuances get lost. @@productamadeus8745
@@SamGutman Yep. The real play here is gonna be the Montage VST. Like literally is that just Halion configured to sound different?
FYI, to those that may not know the M6 and M7 will receive complete PAT midi info from another controller/synth that has PAT. Not exactly a perfect solution, but nice to know.
@@AudioAtmos Well that’s good but kinda defeats the purpose by having 2 big ole keyboards.
We appreciate your video. And we especially appreciate the minimal talking. So many guys do reviews on this keyboard, and all you hear is blah blah blah blah blah. Thank you.
thanks! yeah I knew I wanted to show the sounds and also share a few thoughts, and it took some thinking to figure out how to balance those things. I tend to gravitate towards the "all sounds no talk" type of videos when I'm curious about a product.
Nice rehearsal room ;)
Sounds phenomenal!
Great keyboard , after watching your tour rig video i thought you might like it 🙂👍
yeah it would have been cool to have had it at the time of the tour rig video. One of the other keyboard players was bringing a prototype of it to rehearsals for the past year, so I already had some sense that it was capable of richer and deeper sounds than the ModX. I still have a lot of love for the ModX though...there's definitely a place for prioritizing weight and convenience.
Sounds amazing great video!
thanks!
Thanks for spending $10k per hour at this rehearsal space to bring us this video
Great location for the play thru video 😅😊👍🏼
I’m always hearing the argument of analog vs digital vs analog emulation but what most don’t understand is analog and digital are not the same including emulation. It not because of controls are warmth or aged circuits. What makes the real difference is a process called “antialiasing”. As in images , antialiasing is a process of limiting the amount of data a processor has to compute. To be effective at reproducing an analog sound in the exact same way it would need to be digitally recorded at around 1140kbps which is much higher than the max of 198kbps used in digital recording. Now most ears can’t tell the past 41kbps but surprisingly humans can hear with more than their ears. It is found hair follicles move with high frequency and body cavities will respond to low frequency sounds. True analog will always sound and feel better than digital due to down sampling.
Analog emulation, when done right, is very close to the real thing now. I don’t think many people can tell the difference. You have to listen to the same sound right next to each other, and even then it can be tricky. Check out Vulture Culture’s comparison of the Matrix 6 to the new Gforce OB-X plug-in with similar patches. It is very hard to tell the difference on some of the sounds.
I'd be very curious to do some kind of blindfolded test...or something like that.
I was glad to come across your video. Subscribed.
thanks! welcome!
Interesting observation. I’ve never had the chance to play an analog synth, so it’s interesting to hear you say it’s pretty good.
My main question is how this compares to Roland’s offering (ZenCore) and the Korg Kronos/Nautilus only AL-1.
imo, I'm not very impressed with the Roland zen cores, but maybe I just never got why the big Phantom had to be that expensive. Have a Kronos 2 73 and nothing still beats its posibilities. I love the sound of the new Montage M. Definetly want one. Just wish I could combine the Yamaha quality keybeds with the Hydrasynth's touch strip. Would have been a true showstopper like the CS 80. At least Yamaha is moving forward while Korg is moving backwards. Like many others I have a feeling that the Nautilus just is the last iteration of the Oasys too squeeze the last money out of people while figuring out if it's worth it to make a new showstopper board.
Thank You for this VId!!! :)
I feel that the polyphonic aftertouch that's not in the m6/7 isn't that big of a deal as you still can assign this via an external midi source because its exactly the same operating structure. I'll be saving $$$ and getting the m6. ❤
It is a big deal, because ppl are buying workstations to have all in one box! It’s crazy even to think about buying a keyboard for 4.500€ and needing additional external MIDI controller to play it optimally. I think costumers should have some dignity and show to big brands that they can’t do whatever they want with crazy prices and still get our support. And BTW AN-X VA engine is nothing huge. Roland and Korg have virtual analog synth engines for a long time. And Roland will in Fantom add ACB sound engine with simple firmware update, comparing to Yamaha that discontinued old Montage and MODX for the sake of one additional sound engine. And BTW Roland ACB virtual analog engine is the best digital engine that emulates analog synths, because it’s modeling analog behavior. So instead of discontinuing old workstation and make new one that is almost the same as old one, just to sell it for crazy price Yamaha could make firmware update to old Montage, so old owners would not have to sell their old Montages and buy new for crazy price, because Roland and Korg are doing it on that way. Roland even expended user memory with firmware update, yet Yamaha discontinued MODX and introduced MODX+ to expend user memory.
IMHO, Yamaha not including PAT on the M6/M7 boards was a huge swing and a miss! Korg's Nautilus AT 61-key workstation may be a better alternative... they've had VA sound engines for quite some time now plus FM and physical modeling. If the lack of more physical buttons/knobs/sliders is not an issue for you, you'll be saving even more $$$!
These are some interesting points. I'm curious how the keyboard does over the longer term, because in a certain sense that will validate whether they provided the sounds and functionality that the market wanted. I'm very curious to try the Roland ACB engine now that you mention it.@@roggyo
I do wonder though how important PAT is to most people. I guess we'll see@@GrayGhostDog1
@@roggyo ... I'm not so sure I understand why Roland would require, let alone be capable of, ACB when the Fantom series has the Zencore technology. From my understanding, they released Zencore because of complaints that ACB was a huge resource hog.
It sounds good on its own right, but it doesn't sound analog, not VCO at least, maybe late 80's DCO at best. In my opinion the best analog-sounding workstation is still the Kronos/Nautilus.
a few people have said that...I'll be sure to check it out
@@borispradel1037 someone that actually knows what they are talking about. As a korg Kronos 2 88 user, I can agree. Just look at dream theaters Jordan rudess.
Where is your Osmose? Seriously. For driving a lead or any single note mission.....that's the arrow I'd want in my quiver. Subscribed, TY for this one. PS: did you ever have a Access Virus?
Not snob, analog is a different class of instrument. Not obsolete like a 486 PC. Instrument in its own right. When you play them live you can feel it.
Hey Sam, congrats on your channel. Cool stuff and informative. Can I ask you what in ear monitors you use/recommend? Or any considerations regarding in ears? I’m ready to buy a pair but have 0 experience with them . Thank you!
Hi Duakeys! so I'm actually yet to have a decent pair of IEMs. Right now I use the Shure 215s, and I don't like them. I also use those noise cancelling headphones that you'll sometimes see construction workers or people who work on airport tarmacs wear. I put those over my IEMs for even better isolation and it works very well, although it doesn't look very cool. I'm planning to get some molds done in the next month or so.
Thank you Sam! I really appreciate your reply, and congrats on all your work! You are truly making it happen. Much respect and much success to you!
Thanks!@@Duakeys best wishes to you!
Oh you had me at zelda
Bro, how many of the typical sounds [old, nothing new here] do you use in the songs from that concert? Any PAD only? With an SY-77 you would have had more than enough, greetings!
You mean, how many of the sounds in the concert are on the old MontagesModXs as well? Probably most of them actually. Since I just got the board I haven't had a lot of time to integrate new things into the set...and the set has been basically the same for a few months now.
I notice that you used on-ear or over-ear headphones in the short live clip you showed. Is that your usual monitoring setup or was it just because the Montage was a new board? Thanks
Good question! I use shure 215 in-ear monitors, and occasionally I put protective earphones over them...the kind construction workers or people who work on airport tarmacs use. I do this just for some extra isolation. I don't really like my IEMs, and it's just such a loud and boomy stage that the little bit of extra protection helps me have a clear sound.
@@SamGutman thanks for reply 👍🏼
I couldn't imagine paying close to five grand for the montage.
Did you say 5 Gs
I guess I'll stick with ableton live and my yamaha mox
Imagine you pay 4 to 5 thousand for a roland or yamaha and two years later they render it pretty much obsolete with a flashy few new presets dang
yeah it's pretty steep for sure. If I'm going strictly off of price I'd choose the ModX. It can do most of what I need...and I have other boards for the analog sounds. That being said I do love the new Montage and a lot of the new features are very useful to me.
I realise they’re a good few years old now Sam, but analog engine wise, how does this sound compared to a Kronos?
I'm not sure. One of the other guys in the band has a Kronos as part of his rig, but he uses it for completely different sounds so it's hard to say. I'll have to check it out.
Sound good do like better then the mox8
The AN-X engine really changed the game for workstation synths.
It obviously cannot do as many things as a Prophet or a Moog, but it's close. Add the ease of use that digital brings and it's a clear winner for the stage.
It will never be a replacement for those classic synths, but it was never designed with that in mind.
How they changed the game? Roland and Korg workstations have virtual analog engines, FM synthesis and even wavetable synthesis for a long time. And in addition to all that Organ and piano engines comparing to Yamaha. Korg has even physical modeling synth engine in their workstations for a long time. Yamaha used to have in EX5 workstation from the end of 90s physical modeling, VA and FM synth engines in addition to samples. It’s EX5 was their last decent synth workstation, after they focused on samples and bred and butter sounds. So Yamaha with new Montage M showed that their synth department is still sleeping. It’s a pity, because they used to make good synths!
@@roggyo Spot on! I was thinking the exact same thing.
@@roggyo Good point.
However, FM is a proprietary technology of Yamaha. I believe the FM sounds on the other boards are samples, not the actual operators that are on Yamaha boards. (correct me if I'm wrong on that).
With the Montage series, you can start completely from scratch with the FM engine, add and structure the operators however you want, and then process the sound through their dedicated SmartMorph engine plus effects, of course. You have real-time control of the FM synthesis engine much the way you can control changes with subtractive/wavetable synthesis. I don't know that any other brand gives you that. FM synthesis has historically been complex and difficult, but the Montage series makes that much more user-friendly.
With the Montage M series, you now have all of that synthesis control on top of their world class AWM2 samples.
I almost bought a Kronos years ago because I always loved Kong synth sounds the most. Unfortunately back then I wasn't as financially well off as I am now, and anyway I've always loved Yamaha's AWM2 samples best.
Now I have a Hydrasynth Deluxe sitting next to my Montage, LOL!
@@vanessajazp6341 FM is not proprietary of Yamaha, though they do a stellar job of implementing it. The 8 operator version in the montage does have some neat tricks though that's unique to that engine. I think where the Yamaha really shines is actually more to do with the quality of the outputs. They just sound very good, especially within a band context.
@@dynoroad Most literature I've seen over the years always notes FM synthesis as proprietary to Yamaha.
It's a complex form of synthesis developed in the early 70's that never saw any success until the developer sold the rights to Yamaha and they used it for their groundbreaking DX keyboards. Almost every #1 hit from the mid-80's had a DX somewhere in the mix.
What artist do you go on tour with?
Right now I'm with Lauryn Hill & The Fugees
Only thing thar sounds analog is the cs 80
Noise and rubbish; and a immature guy turning a knob. Boring, and nearly no music
Dude are you in front of a green screen
nope! although it has crossed my mind that when I'm on the road I should figure out a way to green screen myself into my basement studio.
An1x can do same i think)
at less quality with more noise and distortion but some loke lo fi.
@@georgegeorgio1751 less quality? Lofi? Are you a joke?😄😄 it's a most clear quality synth I ever heard.
@@NatLifeSounds Not from what some of my friends have said , they owned one for a few years.
@@georgegeorgio1751 you can believe them of course, but my ears hear it as a top clear quality synth. It sounds huge in all senses. I hope I will release a sound library for this synth soon, to show how it can be good.
@@NatLifeSoundsThe Montage has a much higher quality DAC and overall sound quality. It’s a fact.
It sounds too clean.. it's as simple as that..
Nothing analog about this... more like 90's VA
Agree..
Nobody is saying it is analog...high horse, off it, all that jazz.
@@X22GJP No, but it is supposed to emulate analog…..
@@X22GJP i didn't claim that as well. It's a virtual analog engine. Now VA's have progressed quite a bit. If you want a point of comparison then for example the Nord Lead A1 sounds way more convincing as a VA. The sounds coming out of the AN-X sound like a 90's VA, very digital and not very convincing as an analog emulation
With this much cpu power i'm sure there'll be updates that will overshadow what Nord can do.
I love my new M7😊