When I was a kid, my dad bought and flew a Bonanza. We would go flying on weekends, so much fun. He was an air traffic controller for 35 years. He lost a lot of his work colleagues in their 50's from stress, and he ended up having a nervous breakdown at 55. He retired shortly after. He is now 92 and healthy and enjoys your channel too. Thank you for posting! ❤❤and for doing what you guys do!
Millenials worry about hard work and its shortening of your overall lifespan. Your 92 year young Dad proves that hard work won't kill you. If so, there would be a lot more dead people in America.
I've had a Cherokee for 11 years and my worst annual has been only $5000 - had to replace 2 jugs. The majority of my annuals are between $1-2K. I've always done an owner assisted annual because I've always wanted to know my airplane inside and out. I completely open the airframe up, perform all the routine maintenance tasks, do many of the non-routine tasks with supervision, and close it up myself. My shop is really great about letting me do most of the work with their supervision. Only the most complicated and safety critical tasks are left to them which is how I want it. If your shop allows you to do an owner assisted annual and you can take a week of vacation to do it, I highly recommend it. You'll get a deeper understanding of the systems that make your airplane work.
My shop charged $45.00/hour if we did the work. It charged $50 if you did the work and we supervised. It charged $75 per hour if you did the work with our tools, equipment, and supplies and we supervised. We were not trying to rip off the customer, just make sure that we were paid for our knowledge and not have to deal with mean drunks and users. 🧐
As someone who works at a repair station, I hate seeing big repair for a customer. But I also feel really accomplished when I find stuff that could cause big issues that are hiding or waiting to happen.
I don’t know, I’ve been on both sides of that counter. It’s easier when it’s a 135 operator and pretty much nothing can be put down as MEL. Working classics with decades of life on them and decades more most of the guys look at it differently. Minor hydraulic seepage from a gear actuator won’t kill anything, however if you ever pulled the grasshopper gear off an RG Cessna trying to eliminate a negligible leak you might find you create a bigger issue. I’m lucky that I have been in every end of aircraft ops.
Bonanzas are a keeper airplane even when you have a major repair. Some people say a Cirrus is a better plane (I don’t think so) but the price to get a new or late model Cirrus is outrageous. Bonanza is just all around good airplane. Enough range, speed, control feel and load carrying capacity is remarkable. I have had a 1962 P35 Bonanza for 17 years and still love it.
Guys, I’m nine minutes into it and you asked my opinion. You know better. Wait another three months get a zero hour engine. A no-brainer. I have a Cessna 210 C that broke off three of the eight cylinder bolts on the number four-cylinder. It was 500 hours post overhaul. But it was a field overhaul that I knew nothing about. So…..It has been seven months waiting for our zero time engine to be completed and God be willing we will have it installed next month. But it is a zero time. You guys have an engine that you spent a ton of money, repairing, and that you’re going to be at TBO in 350 hours. I don’t see how that was beneficial when you have so many other assets to fly. IMHO. I appreciate the channel appreciate everything you share.
I totally agree with @iammrvain's advice above, and I've been an A&P/IA mechanic for 35+ years. You guys bought the dog, so you should have bought the collar too, before you buy the farm.
Old (and used up) A&P but I buy into some of the current thinking that under part 91 there is no requirement to observe TBO. Aviation guru Mike Bush has well over 3000 hrs on his TIO-520s in his turbo C-310. Sounds like your maintenance tech did all the right things on the IRAN so with prudent operation and regular borescope inspections you should enjoy a couple thousand more hours. Best of luck. Beautiful airplane BTW.
There is no such thing as a used up A&P. there is no substitute for experience and nothing more valuable to the flying community than high time maintainers. People like you are how I got my ratings, and the confidence to keep planes of my own. People like you are why the vintage section is so well populated at Airventure.
No "cents" cutting corners especially when you will be keeping the aircraft for the foreseeable future. However, it would be a good move if Jeffery or Christian got their A&P certificate. That would move a lot of those labor hours inside the company. Jeffery I also wanted to tell you that you make great videos and the way you tell the story always keeps me interested until the very end. Thanks
Since this Bonanza is a keep forever plane you definitely did the right thing getting everything done I might have gone even further and taken the extra steps to make the rebuild an official overhaul.
I'm pretty lucky to have 3 other co-owners with one being an a&p mechanic. We prep the plane for the annual then ask the mechanic 2 hangers over to sign off. We save a huge amount of money.
I work on the large cabin fleet Citations in Wichita, and see some fairly large work packages come through, knowing there’s likely some six-figure bills that come with some. But then I walk over to the next hangar bay, and see a hangar full of King Airs, Beechjets, Premiers- all torn to pieces with mods, major repairs or inspections, etc., and I really feel a sense of respect and admiration for these owner/operators that have the commitment to get the work done and get back into the air. It takes a real love for these machines to weather these moments…thanks- I salute you!
“Keeping it real” is the fact that aircraft ownership is a complete waste of money just to go out for breakfast or diner flights. The justification for acft expenses is just really dumb for anything other than a business necessity these days.
I loved when you said: Before your annual; “Go in with a list of things you’ve noticed.” Thanks for sharing! My favorite portion of this flight was hearing the count down 400’ 300’… 100’. Nice views too! See you guys soon!
Cool vid. The longest trip I ever took in a private plane was from Central Illinois Regional to Greensboro NC in a Bonanza A36. For an aviation geek (like me) it was epic. The plane belonged to a friend/business associate who piloted the entire round trip. Good memories. You did the right thing with your “blank check” approach to servicing your Bonanza. You are very blessed to have the resources to be able to have that work done. Someone with fewer resources might’ve been forced to permanently walk away. Cheers!
Rod-end bearings...for the ailerons and elevator, make sure you use the proper (water-displacement) spray lubricant often. Those little parts are essential for staying alive. If one seizes, it can snap off, thereby allowing the aileron to suddenly be sucked up into the air-stream thereby going into a full up position. Not a good thing to have happen under any circumstances. If you're lucky, you can overcome the problem by using full opposite rudder and opposite aileron, but control will be minimal, at best. That's why one should always visually check them during every pre-flight walk-around. Those little $20 items can easily ruin your whole day (and life). They take the place of cables that most cheaper planes use, and they're just as essential. If kept properly lubricated, they'll last almost forever. Remember... it's the little things that'll getcha.
I have a F33a that I have maintained similar to yours. We had to re-skin the flaps one year, and re-rig the same engine bay once too. Replaced the cylinders, engine mounts, along with a lot of others issues. 80K total. And I have a King Air 200 that has not had a phase inspection that expensive.
If you are going to keep your Bonanza for many years, think of expensive and cheap annuals as the cost of owning an airplane. Your engine should be good for at least 1,000 hours if not more. She looks great with the paint job and killer panel. I suspect she is now worth more than you have invested. Love your channel.
Bought a plane in January, 2021, 1974 Beechcraft Sport 180 with a Lycoming O-360. Pre-buy was good, a few things that needed to be addressed right away, some we could defer. Seller paid for the former, discounted the plane for the latter. Even did an oil change, no metal found in the filter. First annual in August, metal in the filter. Including the things that were deferred from the pre-buy and additional stuff that was done, about 10K. Continued to run engine, following Lycoming's recommended procedure to monitor metal. It seemed to get better but still making some metal. Oil change in March 2022, much more metal, airplane grounded. Engine removed and sent off for overhaul. Total cost, including labor, parts, and doing additional stuff like refurbishing the engine mount, 41K. So, yeah, I feel you. But the bones are good (mechanic who did annual right after engine was reinstalled complimented me on the state of my airframe) and the engine is fresh. As you say, the next annual should, hopefully, not be a big deal. Yet I can't help but think, famous last words.
Yes, it's a lot of money! Because of your business sense and skill, you were able to pay the bill. You are richly blessed! And Owen, an incredible pilot and an amazing man! What a great example for the kids he mentors!
This is exactly why a have HUGE hesitation about buying an airplane. I've had my eye on F33As for a while. When they're good, they're good. But damn. Talk about a rabbit hole. I do think you did right with not going full on overhaul. You'll should have lots of relatively pain free hours to fly now. Definitely jealous of your F33. Beautiful airplane. Guess I'll keep flying rented Archer IIIs for a while...
Yeah, maybe they should't have replaced rivets in the firewall and engine bed and just used some good duct tape instead. And the heck with the 3 low cylinders, the engine has 3 more good ones...
If you plan to keep the plane you probably made the right decision to IRAN the engine. Good find on the engine mount and you are very lucky they caught that. However, I would have had the crankshaft and connecting rods NDT and recertified as if an overhaul was being conducted. I have seen too many come poking through the crankcase.(A&P, I.A. 42 years, retired.) Stories, you want stories? Okay. A guy called me and asked me to do an annual on his J-3 that I had not worked on before.. I was getting ready to retire so I blew him off twice, but he was persistent, so the third time I figured, well, how bad can someone screw up a J-3? Boy did I find out. "Fuel not flowing from wing tank" Yup, there is no gasket under the cap, there is a vacuum up there when you are flying right? I found an important AD that was never completed since the 1980s. The exhaust system had to be completely rebuilt, the air filter was the wrong size, the plugs were shot and an intake tube was ready to fall off. When the owner brought it in, he said, "I wasn't sure I was going to make it." Duh, no sh*t. By the time I finished that one I think there were around 30 write ups and a bill of around $3,000. But it flew a lot better than when he came in. A final word of advice; don't let anybody give you a free 401.
I've experienced similar. My Mooney M20J's first annual after I bought it was $42,000 Aus (US$30,000). Didn't include any engine work either - resealing fuel tanks, remove and reskin due to some corrosion, new control cables, etc, etc, etc. However, when I sold it last year, I made over $50k on what I paid for it, due to the ridiculous price rises we've seen in GA aircraft recently. I feel your pain.
As I continue to comment at the very end I say you have a stable way about you and all involved. Sacrifice nothing on safety as you grow and grow. You and your group of great minds to mix. Savor every moment and you will have fond memories.
I was so fortunate with my Cherokee. Annuals were always no problem at all. My guy was retired military crew chief and he did a good job and priced very fair. I had multiple years where it was just base charge! Other years, it might be one or two things in addition to annual but nothing really expensive at all and the Lycoming was perfect the entire time I flew it. Piper and Lycoming made some really reliable stuff back in the day.
We just had the same issue with the landing gear on our A36. Similar cost and repair but happy they found it on the ground and didn’t cause an issue in the air!
Great video for so many reasons...thank you! Yes, I once had a $5000 annual, but at the risk of dating myself it was a Cherokee 180 in 1976. Yup, it happens!
$5,000.00 in '76 was a plenty big wad! In '76, my dad bought a brand spanking new Dodge pick-up, 1/2 ton, 2wd, 318, stripped model, for $3,400.00 and change! So, in relative terms, I'd say your five grand was quite a chunk!
I replaced an IO-550 in my F33A this year. Engine alone $62k so 15k is a good deal. I didn’t have your option because my annual revealed a 1” crack in the block hence the new engine. And yes I was able to get a new engine installed in a three month period but I had to go with an engine builder that had all the parts in stock.
I spent thousands of hours as a full time CFII at Reid-Hillview. Amelia Reid gave me my Commercial Multi-engine rating as well as Multi CFI. Lots of memories. A good tip for saving cylinders from cracking due to sudden cooling I learned flying Navajo’s: in your descent reduce power 2” of manifold pressure per minute. You’ll need to calculate your time to touch down early in your initial descent but it will keep your cylinders happy.
I just have to say...When I first saw your videos with the exotic cars when you and your brother were younger I felt they were really shady...amassing an inventory of hundred thousand dollar cars and all the carrying costs all from selling coins online through a self built app...I mean come on guys lets be honest here lol, we're talking family money here...Anyways fast forward til now, you and your brother are really putting in the work here, learning the ins and outs of all the different species of aircraft and I just have to say I am impressed and you earned my subscription to your channel, I have not watched a video of yours regarding aircraft that I did not like so far. Excellent Job and I really appreciate the content, it is informative and entertaining, you really have a future in this space, either with aircraft or exciting content around it, great job!
Just put in a totally new engine from Continental. The old one had 2,400 hours on it and was still going strong! I've never heard of another IO-520 lasting this long.
Retractable gear, certified aircraft... going to have to budget a minimum of $5k/year for condition inspection... as a base line. That's why many of us fly experimental. Annual condidtion inspection on my RV-6 is approx $300! Oil changes and regular flying are a huge factor on an engine. 40 hours on the oil and don't let the aircraft sit keeps corrosion away. Beautiful bird!
$170k and 500+ days in the shop on my A36. There are some upgrades included in there, but started off with a crankshaft AD and scoring on the cylinder walls. Was a 6 month + wait to get parts or machine shop time, upgraded to the IO-550 since I was able to get that in less time from the factory. Even the brand new engine had some problems though. Going through break in right now.
@@paradoxicalcat7173 Went through a string of about 4 defective magnetos, had to wait for continental to send a new one each time. May 2023 - August 2023 was just an endless magneto loop.
Geeez at first I was going to roast you for wasting your money on this plane. But I come away tail tucked between my legs. That plane looks gorgeous. Then you see the panel and the interior. Well played boys. Well played.
Had a $15k annual on my bonanza this year. New exhaust, prop bulkhead, oil cooler, master cylinder, tires, and a bunch of other stuff. I have owned the plane for 5 years. It’s part of it, but it sucks. I was expecting a clean year. Good luck next year
Having to come up with $$$ like that with no warning kinda becomes a thing with plane ownership. I’ve owned two and the first a little 69 C-150 Trainer still bit me on the first annual. Ended up with a higher cost than the initial investment on Cylinder replacement and other engine work. At least now YOU know what is in it and how it’s being taken care of on your watch. If and when you do sell it any prospective buyers will have a good record of its history. Love the channel, thanks for sharing!
I did incremental, but thorough, maintenance on my Arrow III and was never sorry. In the end I had over 3300 hours on the engine since the previous OH and all the annuals still showed high compression on each cylinder. Good decision 👍
In 1989 I purchased a 1978 Cessna 152 with a 0-235 in it. The previous owner purchased it new tore out the interior only one seat, and placed a 42 gallon chemical tank where the other seat was and cargo area. When I purchased the plane it already had 8000 hours on it in 11 years since new, and on its fourth engine, It was used in east Texas to spray pine beetles during the IPPS beatle problems in the 80s. It had a factory new engine which already had 1600 + hrs on it when I purchased it. I flew that thing until 1998 nine years later and that engine had 3700hrs on it. The only money I ever spent on that motor was spark plugs and oil changes, oh and one used carburetor . The man I sold the plane to put another hundred or so hours on it, and then it was destroyed in a hanger fire.
Several things here to comment on, First I know an M series Skyhawk with over 6000 hours TT on its 320, 3900 of which is SMOH. On another note, not all shops are created equal as not all A&Ps are equal. I have heard of shops obsessing over rivets not being burred. They were like that since the bird was manufactured and clearly had not affected that Bo in her 60+ Years since. An element of practicality is good especially when dealing with classic aircraft. Overhaul intervals are not written in stone. A regularly run engine that is tended to and operated properly should run beyond TBO. now if you pull the crap common to aviators drawn to a particular model that shall remain nameless I.E. aggressive over leaning of the engine, bad hot starts, leaving oil caps on the ground and waiting until someone asks if you have a smoke generator installed on 129.95 before RTB, flash cooling, not opening cowl flaps on the ground (goes double in the heat), removing your own cowl and not checking that the baffles are angled properly or basically doing the ignorant crap I see nearly every day, a light piston most any light piston can be owned and operated fairly reasonably. I recommend “Colvin’s Clinic” and “Owner Assisted Maintenance”. You can drastically cut back on ownership costs by handling what you can under FAR Part 43. More over for anyone operating a classic I would actively seek out shops that cater to classics. They tend to possess tribal knowledge that is sometimes literally generational. This can and often does cut down on shop hours to address squawks, reducing hangar time and by extension that final bill.
They usually say your first annual is the worst. Sorry you had to go through that. I did have my come to Jesus talk with myself and my wife at my first annual. Luckily, she said hang onto it! It is a shock to the system no doubt and I have my gear down and welded. Hang in there. you did a ton of work. Take care of the engine. Don't "baby" it. Run it. Remember that babying aircraft can be just as bad. Especially a 520. Just run it 68-75% power all the time and you'll be in great shape.
I have a 1989 F33A. I had a 18 year old IO-550B with 1600 hours on it. I did a swap for a completely overhauled engine from Pacific Continental Engines . It cost 42,000 for that and also did a new prop for 10,000. I now have complete confidence flying over the Sierras in my Bonanza. Lot of money but the security that expenditure provides is priceless.
When I purchased my bonanza, it came with a 520 BB engine that had just been overhauled with an invoice amount of $57,000. Big difference as you mentioned, overhaul adds to value, so it’s not money loss versus Iran and you lose all the value you put into the plane pretty much.
I think I've heard it said regarding expensive things, "If you have to ask how much it costs, you shouldn't be buying it." If spending exorbitant amounts of money help ensure safe flights and getting down on the ground safely, I'd say it is worth it. The alternative is unacceptable under any circumstances.
I always wonder, when you hear of catastrophic engine failure (engine seizing or locking up), was cost-cutting the cause? A properly maintained and repaired engine, be it car or airplane engine, should never do that.
Maintenance (or rather, lack thereof) is usually the cause of mechanical failure. There are also instances of cheap maintenance that create problems, too.
Interesting video and informative. I think these maintenance costs come with the territory. If a boat is a hole in the lake where the money goes, a plane is a black hole in the sky. You don't do it if you can't afford it. If you can and enjoy it then it is no issue.
I feel your pain. Last year I paid over $20K (plus a 5-month wait) for my TB-20 annual. Engine was perfect...but the airframe needed some TLC. Main issue: the control rod bearings had not been lubed properly by the previous mechanic (this aircraft was new to me). Replacement cost: $1160 per rod! Also, the supply was backlogged, thus the long wait to get the bird back. I just finished this year's annual for $3000. Whew!
Honestly, I’m guessing given how thorough this annual was, I think you’ve got a much better airplane that should yield some easier annuals in the future. I think the IRAN was the right choice given the time you would be down waiting. I imagine it will affect the value of your airplane down the road should you sell after TBO, but you likely have a very solid engine for as long as you’d like to fly the debonair.
This is definitely one of the better young flying channels out there guys. I’m only a few videos in and that’s my conclusion already. Well done. Fly well. Fly safe. I’d demand to keep all of the old parts. Every seal ever washer nut and bolt.
Yes, this has happened to me. The first “new owner” annual can be a doosey. I had to have a complete overhaul. New pistons/cylinders, new cam, turn the crank, new lifters, and since we had to remove the engine, new mounts, Overhaul the mag’s, overhaul the alternator. And of course new bearings, new gaskets, case inspection, cleaning, testing, and paint. New fuel and oil lines. New oil cooler. Overhaul prop controller. Overhaul prop. And I’m sure a few more parts that I can’t remember. You guys did the right thing. I bought my plane in Florida. That alone is a major concern. The engine didn’t get run much by the previous owner. And the engine had sat without pickling, for 3 years, in Florida. Of course I found out these things Afterwards.
Very similar situation with my Bonanza 36. Bought it two years ago, last owner deferred a few things as one would expect. Had an annual done right before purchase, took care of the items and thought I was done. NOPE! After paint, interior and full Garmin panel, it was $120k more...but those were all good upgrades. The next annual as the owner at a Beechcraft specialist...$24k...without any engine work. The next year, $19k...again...no engine work. What the $%#$%#!!! I appreciate the very detailed look at the plane and resolving every single item, it is now as good as a new plane coming off the production line. However... Parts are insanely expensive, labor is expensive. The mechanic often said "...Beechcraft is really proud of the engineering and manufacturing of XYZ part..." Which translated into "expensive". Owning a plane is a wonderful and terrifying experience at the same time. I would say for someone buying their first plane...look into a newer LSA if it fits your mission. They may cost more to buy, but a snap to take care of and parts are readily available and affordable. PS....let's meet up one of these days...also flying out of NorCal.
My first F33A annual was $22k with only minimal engine work. All elements of the landing gear needed to be rebuilt and re-rigged. All struts and brakes needed rebuilding. Flap rollers were seized up. There was a cracked engine mount. Magnetos hit their 500 hour time. I had LED wingtip lights and strobes installed (I supplied). I really had to hustle on a side job to not crash our bank account.
Being an aircraft mechanic it’s all relative. If you’re not in a time crunch for your plane then yes get it overhauled while it’s out. Since it’s going to cost you another $5k with that company to remove and install the engine when you decide to do the overhaul. Plus the cost of whatever it is at that time to overhaul it
I had an unexpected Avionic upgrade half year after I purchased my 1992 A36. GFC600, G500TXi, GTX345, G530WAAS Upgrade, G5 as Backup. Constant returning issues with AP (KFC 150) and HSI. Purchase process took almost 4 months after pre-purchase.
It happens: One never knows how much one will wind up paying to get anything--cars, boats, planes, etc.--back to the point where it can be safely used again. Good luck!
In my opinion unless you’re going to sell it you made a very very wise decision to IRAN vs overhaul. I’ve seen engines go 2,000hrs beyond TBO and still having great compressions with very little oil consumption. Flown often, consistently and correctly. What a beauty!! ENJOY!!
@@pcpolice7937 Lycoming I/O 540 ( NON Turbo) on a T-Tail lance. Thats pretty rare of course. It was a beautiful aircraft! Unfortunately it was completely destroyed in a weather related accident.
Here is the learning curve, next time you buy a plane pay some one to do a pretty complete pre-buy would have seen the cam issues for sure. You keep that plane in Az so my guess is it was pitted before you purchased it. as far as the other firewall issue, you may want to talk to the previous owners A&P, something happen to this plane before you guys got it.
I during my PP initial training I regularly flew a C150 with 5500 hours on the engine. They did their own repairs in shop and did everything that a full overhaul would do. They also had a C172 with 4000+ on it and same OH treatment. I observed their work a lot and so had zero concerns about safe engines.😊
If it were me, I think I would’ve just done an engine exchange with continental. I am not judging though. You said you are keeping this airplane forever. If that’s true, I do not fault your decision. Frankly, $15,000 on the engine bill sounds great. I would’ve guessed in the $22,000 range for the work described. The firewall issue sounds a little scary to me. Like maybe there’s more to the story? Final thought for anyone else reading this. Anytime these big board continentals need mag work, I would give serious consideration to an ElectroAir electronic ignition on one side. Preferably the bottom plugs. I just went through a similar situation ultimately replacing all six cylinders. The electronic ignition is single-handedly. The most noticeable improvement I’ve done. No more hot starts. Runs like a dream. I’m quite confident I’ve gained about 3 to 5 knots on the same fuel burn.
Had an annual done on a piper archer III in early 2022, everything seemed normal during the inspection but the LAME found corrosion in the wing spar. Since this occurred, there have been parts shortage and long wait lists. The aircraft is still wing-less and sitting in the hangar waiting for the parts to this date! In the mean time, the decision was made to upgrade the panel to Garmin G5 and dual G430s whilst we wait for the parts to arrive. Been a year and half wait so far. Lots of love from Australia!
When I pointed out the BOAT (break out another thousand) acronym to one of my work colleagues, he noted that PLANE stands for “please leave** another new engine” ** this can also be loan or lend
Scary! But, it's in the past now. I think the expense will just make you love this plane even more. I love it and I'll never even fly in it! That engine sounds almost as great as the 1500hp radials in the T-28s I flew in the Navy.
Perhaps that was "canned" engine noise from a World War II fighter? I would also like to hear actual engine sound from takeoffs on my favorite YT channels such as this one, but not as deafening cabin noise. Big-budget Hollywood films know how to do it right, but is is "sounds like" too much to expect of YT content creators.
Just had my Annual done in California for my 1963 P-35 Bonanza I’ve owned for 34 years! I had the main landing gearbox rebuilt, magnetos rebuilt, go-pilot seat recline mechanism rebuilt, propeller overhauled and I had to replace the hub with a new hub due to corrosion.. (I could have bought a new prop but they were back ordered 3-6 months) ACF corrosion proofing, etc, etc. Prop overhaul ( with new Hub) was $16,000.00. Remainder of annual was $20,000.00. Total $36,000.00. Biggest annual ever in 34 years!! Hopefully next year will be better!!
My first annual for my 1968 V35A was about $60K, plus I bought I new engine to replace my 2600 hour existing engine. My second annual was $24K. My third comes up in 4 months. We will see... 🙂
I was used to ARC incl. a 100h inspection at appr. 3300,- without any specials. Then I learned about the Pilot Owner Maintenance as it is regulated by EASA in Europe. The last ARC incl. the 100 h Inspection was 1300,- only and it included a new weighing of the plane 😎 I‘m very happy with that 😊🎉
I know you're perfectly fine doing what you did with the IRAN and were at TBO anyway. If you're keeping the plane it doesn't matter, IRAN vs. OH. You'll be good for a very long time. I own a Turbo Arrow II that had a freshly overhauled engine (Cont TSIO-390FB) when I bought it. In fact that's the reason I bought it. The engine had 100 hours on it, that I put on it, when I observed it smoking on start up. I flew it back to TX where I bought it, and had them remove it and IRAN it. SURPRISE!, the number one piston rod bearing was destroyed and the shop said it was within a flew hours of coming apart. 44K and 7 months later I still don't have my plane back (parts) and I still owe for the annual, another 10k most likely! Wow, SURPRISE! You did the right thing! By the way, everyone told me not the IRAN the engine. So, there you have it.
We also had cylinder head issue with our continental in our C210..we usually chose not to rebuild and bought a reman from the factory..seemed to be the most cost effective way at the time..really wanted to do a 550 conversion but never happened..we never had big $$$$ annual but we had a shop that really stayed on on top of our annuals and we did a lot of preventive maintenance..
My dad was a TWA pilot back in the day. He owned a V35B and there was always anxiety related to the annual. He really wanted a Baron but the cost of the annual kept him in a single engine plane.
Longest I've seen was 425hrs past TBO on my Bonanza. I think you have a pretty good plan on longevity. Enjoy these videos, I think you got a pretty good deal on the cost's associated, especially the engine tunnel and rigging the gear!!!
Doooods, sweeeet Bonanza!!! That panel!!!!! Super hefty bill but for sure you did the right thing on that Conti. If you were to flip it, it’s a crap shoot whether you’d recoup but you’re hanging on to it. I’ve discovered pitted lifter faces before, even on both engines of a 310 (IO520). Some say it’s the oil, some say moisture from sitting, yet others say manufacture defect. I really don’t know. Ridiculous how much parts are for aircraft, seriously. It sounds like your mechanic is competent, ethical and transparent. Perfect for that gorgeous Beech! Great video skills too!
I think you did the right thing. Almost a complete OH, and you saved 15-25k. Break in properly! Aggressively lean (almost stopped, then enrich a bit) during taxi out and taxi in.
When was working on my Pilot's license, I was in the Air Force and stationed at Moffett Naval Air Station in Sunnyvale. My long cross country was to Ukiah, and then to Livermore and back. I flew over the Golden Gate at 8,000 feet. Just magic.
I was lucky enough to get to fly a friends new 94/ F33- alot. The Owner traveled overseas a lot, and I was the CFII that checked him out when he bought the airplane, so it was a nice situation. I agreed to pay for an annual one year. The airplane was basically new, so it was something like $1,800 at Roselle Aviation at Janesville, WIS. A long time ago. When he decided to sell it, I flew it back to Wichita to the Broker, but made a stop at Beech field to visit the factory. They were very nice, and gave me a tour. I miss that airplane.
Yep when I bought my cheaftin twin engine it came with a fresh 100 hour MR when it when in for its first 50 hour service the amount of things they found was ridiculous it cost me so much money to fix but it gets you thinking exactly what shops are doing as a example my fire extinguisher was out of date by 13 years how can something so simple like that get ignored but so many things were out of date or out of time but I bought the plane with a fresh mr they will put bandages on things for a quick sale 😡😡😡
Wow! My father in-law owned 4 planes at one time doing a lease back and 25 years ago he told me he spent $25,000 on a complete rebuild of his Mooneys engine and I decided right then and there that flying and owning a plane was not going to happen for me. Your F-33 looks absolutely stunning!
Major props to the whole JR team. Always making videos exciting and always elaborating! Some people just think your a bunch of rich kids, but only real ones know the story and grind! Keep it up man, absolutely amazing content and very entertaining!
The last annual on my Cessna 150 cost about $4000. All the ones previous in the last 6 years were between $750-1500. It was a Timebuilder that I was operating on a pretty low budget. Now I have my airline job and some extra cash so we decided to take care of all the things I’ve been “putting off” for the last several years. Now she should be good to go for years to come.
I own a Beechcraft Sierra BE24 and I had a rough go these last 4 months. Over 10k in repairs. First was a cylinder, mag harness was bad and air intake housing was broken. The first flight back I lose the audio panel so while it went in for repairs I said do the prop eddy current test and my IFR recert so that was more. Now the battery is weak and getting replaced. Normally I never spent more than 3k tops on annuals and I do all suggested items but this year with the cylinder going bad it hurt hard!!! I would never rent anymore though, the schedule was always booked and it was getting 150 plus per hour. I can come and go with my own plane and I don't owe anything on it as I paid cash. I would say if you got your bonanza for that 30k change then it's not so bad. A good running one would be well over 100k so you're in a good spot! Keep it up, it's very pretty.
Considering how much a new Bonanza costs today, it still seems like a deal. But when I learned to fly, it cost $12.50/hr for the Cessna 152 and $5/hr for the instructor. $17.00/hr for a 172!
When was this? I’m out here paying 178$ an hour for the plane and 70$ for instructor, but I’m guessing inflation contributed a lot to the numbers you gave?
Average annual for my 2009 Cessna 400 is about 6-10 grand a year on average. This year I decided to order a factory new TSIO550. Engine shipped yesterday for a whopping 105K. N43TT
When I was a kid, my dad bought and flew a Bonanza. We would go flying on weekends, so much fun. He was an air traffic controller for 35 years. He lost a lot of his work colleagues in their 50's from stress, and he ended up having a nervous breakdown at 55. He retired shortly after. He is now 92 and healthy and enjoys your channel too. Thank you for posting! ❤❤and for doing what you guys do!
my impression is a lot of these guys existed on cigarettes and coffee???
@@henryostman5740I'm 55 a D.O.D. retiree and I totally healthy.. gym proper diet and one coffee a day (and I live in Mexico 🇲🇽) cheers 🥂 Bro
Millenials worry about hard work and its shortening of your overall lifespan. Your 92 year young Dad proves that hard work won't kill you. If so, there would be a lot more dead people in America.
Not having work to do will more likely kill you.@@jamesburns2232
Strong coffee and cigarettes at work, stronger stuff while off duty.
I've had a Cherokee for 11 years and my worst annual has been only $5000 - had to replace 2 jugs. The majority of my annuals are between $1-2K. I've always done an owner assisted annual because I've always wanted to know my airplane inside and out. I completely open the airframe up, perform all the routine maintenance tasks, do many of the non-routine tasks with supervision, and close it up myself. My shop is really great about letting me do most of the work with their supervision. Only the most complicated and safety critical tasks are left to them which is how I want it. If your shop allows you to do an owner assisted annual and you can take a week of vacation to do it, I highly recommend it. You'll get a deeper understanding of the systems that make your airplane work.
I have done many annuals that way.
My shop charged $45.00/hour if we did the work. It charged $50 if you did the work and we supervised. It charged $75 per hour if you did the work with our tools, equipment, and supplies and we supervised. We were not trying to rip off the customer, just make sure that we were paid for our knowledge and not have to deal with mean drunks and users. 🧐
@@jamesburns2232 Charge $120 per item if the owner unable to close it back after opening it
As someone who works at a repair station, I hate seeing big repair for a customer. But I also feel really accomplished when I find stuff that could cause big issues that are hiding or waiting to happen.
I don’t know, I’ve been on both sides of that counter. It’s easier when it’s a 135 operator and pretty much nothing can be put down as MEL. Working classics with decades of life on them and decades more most of the guys look at it differently. Minor hydraulic seepage from a gear actuator won’t kill anything, however if you ever pulled the grasshopper gear off an RG Cessna trying to eliminate a negligible leak you might find you create a bigger issue. I’m lucky that I have been in every end of aircraft ops.
That’s the job; better problems found and sorted in the maintenance hanger than at 500ft
Yep exactly, I found a trim cable 90% frayed on a Piper Arrow that hadn’t been caught
Exactly ❤!
Bonanzas are a keeper airplane even when you have a major repair. Some people say a Cirrus is a better plane (I don’t think so) but the price to get a new or late model Cirrus is outrageous. Bonanza is just all around good airplane. Enough range, speed, control feel and load carrying capacity is remarkable. I have had a 1962 P35 Bonanza for 17 years and still love it.
Guys, I’m nine minutes into it and you asked my opinion. You know better. Wait another three months get a zero hour engine. A no-brainer. I have a Cessna 210 C that broke off three of the eight cylinder bolts on the number four-cylinder. It was 500 hours post overhaul. But it was a field overhaul that I knew nothing about. So…..It has been seven months waiting for our zero time engine to be completed and God be willing we will have it installed next month. But it is a zero time. You guys have an engine that you spent a ton of money, repairing, and that you’re going to be at TBO in 350 hours. I don’t see how that was beneficial when you have so many other assets to fly. IMHO. I appreciate the channel appreciate everything you share.
I totally agree with @iammrvain's advice above, and I've been an A&P/IA mechanic for 35+ years. You guys bought the dog, so you should have bought the collar too, before you buy the farm.
Old (and used up) A&P but I buy into some of the current thinking that under part 91 there is no requirement to observe TBO. Aviation guru Mike Bush has well over 3000 hrs on his TIO-520s in his turbo C-310. Sounds like your maintenance tech did all the right things on the IRAN so with prudent operation and regular borescope inspections you should enjoy a couple thousand more hours. Best of luck. Beautiful airplane BTW.
We have an engine at our flight school with over 4000 hours
There is no such thing as a used up A&P. there is no substitute for experience and nothing more valuable to the flying community than high time maintainers. People like you are how I got my ratings, and the confidence to keep planes of my own. People like you are why the vintage section is so well populated at Airventure.
Came here to say this. I’ve seen a Cessna 310 with over 3000 hours on the engines without a full overhaul
Exhaust valves on lycomings don’t seem to go much past TBO
I would run that Continental a long time though ow
No "cents" cutting corners especially when you will be keeping the aircraft for the foreseeable future. However, it would be a good move if Jeffery or Christian got their A&P certificate. That would move a lot of those labor hours inside the company. Jeffery I also wanted to tell you that you make great videos and the way you tell the story always keeps me interested until the very end. Thanks
Since this Bonanza is a keep forever plane you definitely did the right thing getting everything done I might have gone even further and taken the extra steps to make the rebuild an official overhaul.
Yeah, you really do get your moneys worth, between VREF and leave of mind.
I totally agree on the overhaul!
Should have zeroed the engine!!
I'm pretty lucky to have 3 other co-owners with one being an a&p mechanic. We prep the plane for the annual then ask the mechanic 2 hangers over to sign off. We save a huge amount of money.
I work on the large cabin fleet Citations in Wichita, and see some fairly large work packages come through, knowing there’s likely some six-figure bills that come with some. But then I walk over to the next hangar bay, and see a hangar full of King Airs, Beechjets, Premiers- all torn to pieces with mods, major repairs or inspections, etc., and I really feel a sense of respect and admiration for these owner/operators that have the commitment to get the work done and get back into the air. It takes a real love for these machines to weather these moments…thanks- I salute you!
I appreciate you guys keeping it real about the costs of ownership, that Bonanza looks awesome!
Always! Thank you!
“Keeping it real” is the fact that aircraft ownership is a complete waste of money just to go out for breakfast or diner flights. The justification for acft expenses is just really dumb for anything other than a business necessity these days.
Channel your energy into something positive, not lashing out at folks who enjoy flying for the sake of flying. @@tropicthndr
My favorite part of this video is the smile on Jeff's face when he's talking on the radio. Inspiring!
I loved when you said: Before your annual; “Go in with a list of things you’ve noticed.” Thanks for sharing! My favorite portion of this flight was hearing the count down 400’ 300’… 100’. Nice views too! See you guys soon!
Yes! Thank you!
Cool vid. The longest trip I ever took in a private plane was from Central Illinois Regional to Greensboro NC in a Bonanza A36. For an aviation geek (like me) it was epic. The plane belonged to a friend/business associate who piloted the entire round trip. Good memories. You did the right thing with your “blank check” approach to servicing your Bonanza. You are very blessed to have the resources to be able to have that work done. Someone with fewer resources might’ve been forced to permanently walk away. Cheers!
Rod-end bearings...for the ailerons and elevator, make sure you use the proper (water-displacement) spray lubricant often. Those little parts are essential for staying alive. If one seizes, it can snap off, thereby allowing the aileron to suddenly be sucked up into the air-stream thereby going into a full up position. Not a good thing to have happen under any circumstances. If you're lucky, you can overcome the problem by using full opposite rudder and opposite aileron, but control will be minimal, at best. That's why one should always visually check them during every pre-flight walk-around. Those little $20 items can easily ruin your whole day (and life). They take the place of cables that most cheaper planes use, and they're just as essential. If kept properly lubricated, they'll last almost forever. Remember... it's the little things that'll getcha.
I have a F33a that I have maintained similar to yours. We had to re-skin the flaps one year, and re-rig the same engine bay once too. Replaced the cylinders, engine mounts, along with a lot of others issues. 80K total. And I have a King Air 200 that has not had a phase inspection that expensive.
If you are going to keep your Bonanza for many years, think of expensive and cheap annuals as the cost of owning an airplane. Your engine should be good for at least 1,000 hours if not more. She looks great with the paint job and killer panel. I suspect she is now worth more than you have invested. Love your channel.
i say over 100k
I can't comment with knowledge about the engine decision, but I'm happy to see there is still hope for the younger generation in you guys!
Bought a plane in January, 2021, 1974 Beechcraft Sport 180 with a Lycoming O-360. Pre-buy was good, a few things that needed to be addressed right away, some we could defer. Seller paid for the former, discounted the plane for the latter. Even did an oil change, no metal found in the filter. First annual in August, metal in the filter. Including the things that were deferred from the pre-buy and additional stuff that was done, about 10K. Continued to run engine, following Lycoming's recommended procedure to monitor metal. It seemed to get better but still making some metal. Oil change in March 2022, much more metal, airplane grounded. Engine removed and sent off for overhaul. Total cost, including labor, parts, and doing additional stuff like refurbishing the engine mount, 41K. So, yeah, I feel you. But the bones are good (mechanic who did annual right after engine was reinstalled complimented me on the state of my airframe) and the engine is fresh. As you say, the next annual should, hopefully, not be a big deal. Yet I can't help but think, famous last words.
Yes, it's a lot of money! Because of your business sense and skill, you were able to pay the bill. You are richly blessed! And Owen, an incredible pilot and an amazing man! What a great example for the kids he mentors!
This is exactly why a have HUGE hesitation about buying an airplane. I've had my eye on F33As for a while. When they're good, they're good. But damn. Talk about a rabbit hole. I do think you did right with not going full on overhaul. You'll should have lots of relatively pain free hours to fly now. Definitely jealous of your F33. Beautiful airplane. Guess I'll keep flying rented Archer IIIs for a while...
That shop saw you coming, not saying they did anything incorrect but they did a very good job of selling you hours.
Yeah, maybe they should't have replaced rivets in the firewall and engine bed and just used some good duct tape instead. And the heck with the 3 low cylinders, the engine has 3 more good ones...
If you plan to keep the plane you probably made the right decision to IRAN the engine. Good find on the engine mount and you are very lucky they caught that. However, I would have had the crankshaft and connecting rods NDT and recertified as if an overhaul was being conducted. I have seen too many come poking through the crankcase.(A&P, I.A. 42 years, retired.)
Stories, you want stories? Okay. A guy called me and asked me to do an annual on his J-3 that I had not worked on before.. I was getting ready to retire so I blew him off twice, but he was persistent, so the third time I figured, well, how bad can someone screw up a J-3? Boy did I find out. "Fuel not flowing from wing tank" Yup, there is no gasket under the cap, there is a vacuum up there when you are flying right? I found an important AD that was never completed since the 1980s. The exhaust system had to be completely rebuilt, the air filter was the wrong size, the plugs were shot and an intake tube was ready to fall off. When the owner brought it in, he said, "I wasn't sure I was going to make it." Duh, no sh*t. By the time I finished that one I think there were around 30 write ups and a bill of around $3,000. But it flew a lot better than when he came in. A final word of advice; don't let anybody give you a free 401.
Fortunately it had good fabric.
Haven't finished the video, but I can predict my response: "This is why I rent."
I've experienced similar. My Mooney M20J's first annual after I bought it was $42,000 Aus (US$30,000). Didn't include any engine work either - resealing fuel tanks, remove and reskin due to some corrosion, new control cables, etc, etc, etc. However, when I sold it last year, I made over $50k on what I paid for it, due to the ridiculous price rises we've seen in GA aircraft recently. I feel your pain.
Prebuy, prebuy, prebuy
@@javadocF16 Did it. I used a shop recommended by another Mooney owner. Ended up being a waste of money.
The two best days of owning a plane are the day you buy it and the day you sell it
That is a beautiful F33A, nice job guys....
As I continue to comment at the very end I say you have a stable way about you and all involved. Sacrifice nothing on safety as you grow and grow. You and your group of great minds to mix. Savor every moment and you will have fond memories.
I was so fortunate with my Cherokee. Annuals were always no problem at all. My guy was retired military crew chief and he did a good job and priced very fair. I had multiple years where it was just base charge! Other years, it might be one or two things in addition to annual but nothing really expensive at all and the Lycoming was perfect the entire time I flew it. Piper and Lycoming made some really reliable stuff back in the day.
We just had the same issue with the landing gear on our A36. Similar cost and repair but happy they found it on the ground and didn’t cause an issue in the air!
The time involved with experimental is about the same, but the DYI cost structure and pride is wonderful.
Having a top end overhaul is all you needed. TBO is a recommendation… I have a 36 with Top end and 2000 + on the case. No problems
That is the hope, 3000 hours here we come!
Today we learned the value of a proper prebuy inspection.
Great video for so many reasons...thank you! Yes, I once had a $5000 annual, but at the risk of dating myself it was a Cherokee 180 in 1976. Yup, it happens!
$5,000.00 in '76 was a plenty big wad! In '76, my dad bought a brand spanking new Dodge pick-up, 1/2 ton, 2wd, 318, stripped model, for $3,400.00 and change! So, in relative terms, I'd say your five grand was quite a chunk!
I replaced an IO-550 in my F33A this year. Engine alone $62k so 15k is a good deal. I didn’t have your option because my annual revealed a 1” crack in the block hence the new engine. And yes I was able to get a new engine installed in a three month period but I had to go with an engine builder that had all the parts in stock.
Wow $62k holy smokes! Glad it’s all back together though!
I spent thousands of hours as a full time CFII at Reid-Hillview. Amelia Reid gave me my Commercial Multi-engine rating as well as Multi CFI. Lots of memories. A good tip for saving cylinders from cracking due to sudden cooling I learned flying Navajo’s: in your descent reduce power 2” of manifold pressure per minute. You’ll need to calculate your time to touch down early in your initial descent but it will keep your cylinders happy.
I just have to say...When I first saw your videos with the exotic cars when you and your brother were younger I felt they were really shady...amassing an inventory of hundred thousand dollar cars and all the carrying costs all from selling coins online through a self built app...I mean come on guys lets be honest here lol, we're talking family money here...Anyways fast forward til now, you and your brother are really putting in the work here, learning the ins and outs of all the different species of aircraft and I just have to say I am impressed and you earned my subscription to your channel, I have not watched a video of yours regarding aircraft that I did not like so far. Excellent Job and I really appreciate the content, it is informative and entertaining, you really have a future in this space, either with aircraft or exciting content around it, great job!
Just put in a totally new engine from Continental. The old one had 2,400 hours on it and was still going strong! I've never heard of another IO-520 lasting this long.
Retractable gear, certified aircraft... going to have to budget a minimum of $5k/year for condition inspection... as a base line. That's why many of us fly experimental. Annual condidtion inspection on my RV-6 is approx $300! Oil changes and regular flying are a huge factor on an engine. 40 hours on the oil and don't let the aircraft sit keeps corrosion away. Beautiful bird!
Agree, that is why I own and fly an RV-8.
With the annuals being that much cheaper is it as safe?
$170k and 500+ days in the shop on my A36. There are some upgrades included in there, but started off with a crankshaft AD and scoring on the cylinder walls. Was a 6 month + wait to get parts or machine shop time, upgraded to the IO-550 since I was able to get that in less time from the factory. Even the brand new engine had some problems though. Going through break in right now.
Get a new hobby.
Why?
What was wrong with the new engine?
@@paradoxicalcat7173 Went through a string of about 4 defective magnetos, had to wait for continental to send a new one each time. May 2023 - August 2023 was just an endless magneto loop.
Geeez at first I was going to roast you for wasting your money on this plane. But I come away tail tucked between my legs. That plane looks gorgeous. Then you see the panel and the interior. Well played boys. Well played.
Had a $15k annual on my bonanza this year. New exhaust, prop bulkhead, oil cooler, master cylinder, tires, and a bunch of other stuff. I have owned the plane for 5 years. It’s part of it, but it sucks. I was expecting a clean year. Good luck next year
Having to come up with $$$ like that with no warning kinda becomes a thing with plane ownership. I’ve owned two and the first a little 69 C-150 Trainer still bit me on the first annual. Ended up with a higher cost than the initial investment on Cylinder replacement and other engine work. At least now YOU know what is in it and how it’s being taken care of on your watch. If and when you do sell it any prospective buyers will have a good record of its history. Love the channel, thanks for sharing!
I did incremental, but thorough, maintenance on my Arrow III and was never sorry. In the end I had over 3300 hours on the engine since the previous OH and all the annuals still showed high compression on each cylinder. Good decision 👍
Wow that’s awesome!
Way to go guys ! As long as your doing it do it right ! 7 to 10 years from now if you do this again you can plan on doubling that ! 😱
In 1989 I purchased a 1978 Cessna 152 with a 0-235 in it.
The previous owner purchased it new tore out the interior only one seat, and placed a 42 gallon chemical tank where the other seat was and cargo area.
When I purchased the plane it already had 8000 hours on it in 11 years since new, and on its fourth engine, It was used in east Texas to spray pine beetles during the IPPS beatle problems in the 80s.
It had a factory new engine which already had 1600 + hrs on it when I purchased it.
I flew that thing until 1998 nine years later and that engine had 3700hrs on it.
The only money I ever spent on that motor was spark plugs and oil changes, oh and one used carburetor .
The man I sold the plane to put another hundred or so hours on it, and then it was destroyed in a hanger fire.
As non-pilot and wanna be the speed of the radio calls is scary. Watching you do the radio calls was a little shot of adrenalin. great video
Several things here to comment on,
First I know an M series Skyhawk with over 6000 hours TT on its 320, 3900 of which is SMOH. On another note, not all shops are created equal as not all A&Ps are equal. I have heard of shops obsessing over rivets not being burred. They were like that since the bird was manufactured and clearly had not affected that Bo in her 60+ Years since. An element of practicality is good especially when dealing with classic aircraft. Overhaul intervals are not written in stone. A regularly run engine that is tended to and operated properly should run beyond TBO. now if you pull the crap common to aviators drawn to a particular model that shall remain nameless I.E. aggressive over leaning of the engine, bad hot starts, leaving oil caps on the ground and waiting until someone asks if you have a smoke generator installed on 129.95 before RTB, flash cooling, not opening cowl flaps on the ground (goes double in the heat), removing your own cowl and not checking that the baffles are angled properly or basically doing the ignorant crap I see nearly every day, a light piston most any light piston can be owned and operated fairly reasonably. I recommend “Colvin’s Clinic” and “Owner Assisted Maintenance”. You can drastically cut back on ownership costs by handling what you can under FAR Part 43. More over for anyone operating a classic I would actively seek out shops that cater to classics. They tend to possess tribal knowledge that is sometimes literally generational. This can and often does cut down on shop hours to address squawks, reducing hangar time and by extension that final bill.
They usually say your first annual is the worst. Sorry you had to go through that. I did have my come to Jesus talk with myself and my wife at my first annual. Luckily, she said hang onto it! It is a shock to the system no doubt and I have my gear down and welded.
Hang in there. you did a ton of work. Take care of the engine. Don't "baby" it. Run it. Remember that babying aircraft can be just as bad. Especially a 520. Just run it 68-75% power all the time and you'll be in great shape.
I have a 1989 F33A. I had a 18 year old IO-550B with 1600 hours on it. I did a swap for a completely overhauled engine from Pacific Continental Engines . It cost 42,000 for that and also did a new prop for 10,000. I now have complete confidence flying over the Sierras in my Bonanza. Lot of money but the security that expenditure provides is priceless.
When I purchased my bonanza, it came with a 520 BB engine that had just been overhauled with an invoice amount of $57,000. Big difference as you mentioned, overhaul adds to value, so it’s not money loss versus Iran and you lose all the value you put into the plane pretty much.
I think I've heard it said regarding expensive things, "If you have to ask how much it costs, you shouldn't be buying it." If spending exorbitant amounts of money help ensure safe flights and getting down on the ground safely, I'd say it is worth it. The alternative is unacceptable under any circumstances.
Thanks for stating the obvious, Jerry
I always wonder, when you hear of catastrophic engine failure (engine seizing or locking up), was cost-cutting the cause? A properly maintained and repaired engine, be it car or airplane engine, should never do that.
Maintenance (or rather, lack thereof) is usually the cause of mechanical failure. There are also instances of cheap maintenance that create problems, too.
Interesting video and informative.
I think these maintenance costs come with the territory. If a boat is a hole in the lake where the money goes, a plane is a black hole in the sky.
You don't do it if you can't afford it. If you can and enjoy it then it is no issue.
I feel your pain. Last year I paid over $20K (plus a 5-month wait) for my TB-20 annual. Engine was perfect...but the airframe needed some TLC. Main issue: the control rod bearings had not been lubed properly by the previous mechanic (this aircraft was new to me). Replacement cost: $1160 per rod! Also, the supply was backlogged, thus the long wait to get the bird back. I just finished this year's annual for $3000. Whew!
Wow, that sucks. But at least you know that your plane is safe for you and your love ones to enjoy, and for us to watch your adventures.
Honestly, I’m guessing given how thorough this annual was, I think you’ve got a much better airplane that should yield some easier annuals in the future. I think the IRAN was the right choice given the time you would be down waiting. I imagine it will affect the value of your airplane down the road should you sell after TBO, but you likely have a very solid engine for as long as you’d like to fly the debonair.
This is definitely one of the better young flying channels out there guys. I’m only a few videos in and that’s my conclusion already. Well done. Fly well. Fly safe. I’d demand to keep all of the old parts. Every seal ever washer nut and bolt.
Yes, this has happened to me. The first “new owner” annual can be a doosey. I had to have a complete overhaul. New pistons/cylinders, new cam, turn the crank, new lifters, and since we had to remove the engine, new mounts, Overhaul the mag’s, overhaul the alternator. And of course new bearings, new gaskets, case inspection, cleaning, testing, and paint. New fuel and oil lines. New oil cooler. Overhaul prop controller. Overhaul prop. And I’m sure a few more parts that I can’t remember.
You guys did the right thing.
I bought my plane in Florida. That alone is a major concern. The engine didn’t get run much by the previous owner. And the engine had sat without pickling, for 3 years, in Florida. Of course I found out these things Afterwards.
Very similar situation with my Bonanza 36. Bought it two years ago, last owner deferred a few things as one would expect. Had an annual done right before purchase, took care of the items and thought I was done. NOPE! After paint, interior and full Garmin panel, it was $120k more...but those were all good upgrades. The next annual as the owner at a Beechcraft specialist...$24k...without any engine work. The next year, $19k...again...no engine work. What the $%#$%#!!!
I appreciate the very detailed look at the plane and resolving every single item, it is now as good as a new plane coming off the production line. However...
Parts are insanely expensive, labor is expensive. The mechanic often said "...Beechcraft is really proud of the engineering and manufacturing of XYZ part..." Which translated into "expensive".
Owning a plane is a wonderful and terrifying experience at the same time. I would say for someone buying their first plane...look into a newer LSA if it fits your mission. They may cost more to buy, but a snap to take care of and parts are readily available and affordable.
PS....let's meet up one of these days...also flying out of NorCal.
The next owner will thank you for all the hard work.
My first F33A annual was $22k with only minimal engine work. All elements of the landing gear needed to be rebuilt and re-rigged. All struts and brakes needed rebuilding. Flap rollers were seized up. There was a cracked engine mount. Magnetos hit their 500 hour time. I had LED wingtip lights and strobes installed (I supplied). I really had to hustle on a side job to not crash our bank account.
Being an aircraft mechanic it’s all relative. If you’re not in a time crunch for your plane then yes get it overhauled while it’s out. Since it’s going to cost you another $5k with that company to remove and install the engine when you decide to do the overhaul. Plus the cost of whatever it is at that time to overhaul it
I had an unexpected Avionic upgrade half year after I purchased my 1992 A36. GFC600, G500TXi, GTX345, G530WAAS Upgrade, G5 as Backup.
Constant returning issues with AP (KFC 150) and HSI. Purchase process took almost 4 months after pre-purchase.
Wow sweet panel!
It happens: One never knows how much one will wind up paying to get anything--cars, boats, planes, etc.--back to the point where it can be safely used again. Good luck!
In my opinion unless you’re going to sell it you made a very very wise decision to IRAN vs overhaul. I’ve seen engines go 2,000hrs beyond TBO and still having great compressions with very little oil consumption. Flown often, consistently and correctly.
What a beauty!! ENJOY!!
2000 hours BEYOND TBO? Which engine have you seen do that?
@@pcpolice7937 Lycoming I/O 540 ( NON Turbo) on a T-Tail lance. Thats pretty rare of course. It was a beautiful aircraft! Unfortunately it was completely destroyed in a weather related accident.
Here is the learning curve, next time you buy a plane pay some one to do a pretty complete pre-buy would have seen the cam issues for sure. You keep that plane in Az so my guess is it was pitted before you purchased it. as far as the other firewall issue, you may want to talk to the previous owners A&P, something happen to this plane before you guys got it.
I during my PP initial training I regularly flew a C150 with 5500 hours on the engine. They did their own repairs in shop and did everything that a full overhaul would do. They also had a C172 with 4000+ on it and same OH treatment. I observed their work a lot and so had zero concerns about safe engines.😊
If it were me, I think I would’ve just done an engine exchange with continental. I am not judging though. You said you are keeping this airplane forever. If that’s true, I do not fault your decision. Frankly, $15,000 on the engine bill sounds great. I would’ve guessed in the $22,000 range for the work described. The firewall issue sounds a little scary to me. Like maybe there’s more to the story? Final thought for anyone else reading this. Anytime these big board continentals need mag work, I would give serious consideration to an ElectroAir electronic ignition on one side. Preferably the bottom plugs. I just went through a similar situation ultimately replacing all six cylinders. The electronic ignition is single-handedly. The most noticeable improvement I’ve done. No more hot starts. Runs like a dream. I’m quite confident I’ve gained about 3 to 5 knots on the same fuel burn.
Had an annual done on a piper archer III in early 2022, everything seemed normal during the inspection but the LAME found corrosion in the wing spar. Since this occurred, there have been parts shortage and long wait lists. The aircraft is still wing-less and sitting in the hangar waiting for the parts to this date! In the mean time, the decision was made to upgrade the panel to Garmin G5 and dual G430s whilst we wait for the parts to arrive. Been a year and half wait so far. Lots of love from Australia!
G430 better be cheap! They won't be supported much longer. GTN650 would be much better.
When I pointed out the BOAT (break out another thousand) acronym to one of my work colleagues, he noted that PLANE stands for “please leave** another new engine”
** this can also be loan or lend
Scary! But, it's in the past now. I think the expense will just make you love this plane even more.
I love it and I'll never even fly in it! That engine sounds almost as great as the 1500hp radials in the T-28s I flew in the Navy.
Perhaps that was "canned" engine noise from a World War II fighter? I would also like to hear actual engine sound from takeoffs on my favorite YT channels such as this one, but not as deafening cabin noise. Big-budget Hollywood films know how to do it right, but is is "sounds like" too much to expect of YT content creators.
Way cool, you guys rock. Best of all with the overhaul and tons of fun flying her around. Cheers from Switzerland
Just had my Annual done in California for my 1963 P-35 Bonanza I’ve owned for 34 years! I had the main landing gearbox rebuilt, magnetos rebuilt, go-pilot seat recline mechanism rebuilt, propeller overhauled and I had to replace the hub with a new hub due to corrosion.. (I could have bought a new prop but they were back ordered 3-6 months) ACF corrosion proofing, etc, etc. Prop overhaul ( with new Hub) was $16,000.00. Remainder of annual was $20,000.00. Total $36,000.00. Biggest annual ever in 34 years!! Hopefully next year will be better!!
My first annual for my 1968 V35A was about $60K, plus I bought I new engine to replace my 2600 hour existing engine. My second annual was $24K. My third comes up in 4 months. We will see... 🙂
I think it was a good decision if you are planning on keeping the plane. its a beautiful plane for sure...
Probably one of the nicest 33s out there now - looks awesome
I was used to ARC incl. a 100h inspection at appr. 3300,- without any specials.
Then I learned about the Pilot Owner Maintenance as it is regulated by EASA in Europe. The last ARC incl. the 100 h Inspection was 1300,- only and it included a new weighing of the plane 😎 I‘m very happy with that 😊🎉
The more complex they are the bigger the bills will be.
I know you're perfectly fine doing what you did with the IRAN and were at TBO anyway. If you're keeping the plane it doesn't matter, IRAN vs. OH. You'll be good for a very long time. I own a Turbo Arrow II that had a freshly overhauled engine (Cont TSIO-390FB) when I bought it. In fact that's the reason I bought it. The engine had 100 hours on it, that I put on it, when I observed it smoking on start up. I flew it back to TX where I bought it, and had them remove it and IRAN it. SURPRISE!, the number one piston rod bearing was destroyed and the shop said it was within a flew hours of coming apart. 44K and 7 months later I still don't have my plane back (parts) and I still owe for the annual, another 10k most likely! Wow, SURPRISE! You did the right thing! By the way, everyone told me not the IRAN the engine. So, there you have it.
Any GA plane is going to soak up as much money as you have. It's a rich man's hobby
We also had cylinder head issue with our continental in our C210..we usually chose not to rebuild and bought a reman from the factory..seemed to be the most cost effective way at the time..really wanted to do a 550 conversion but never happened..we never had big $$$$ annual but we had a shop that really stayed on on top of our annuals and we did a lot of preventive maintenance..
My dad was a TWA pilot back in the day. He owned a V35B and there was always anxiety related to the annual. He really wanted a Baron but the cost of the annual kept him in a single engine plane.
Lots of $$$$, but beautiful Airplane!!! Worth it!! Bonanza's are GREAT planes!! Yours is now in near perfect shape too, be very grateful for that.
Will, I'm the survivor of a Cessna 150 crash in Mesquite Texas back in 1985, money well spent!!
Longest I've seen was 425hrs past TBO on my Bonanza. I think you have a pretty good plan on longevity. Enjoy these videos, I think you got a pretty good deal on the cost's associated, especially the engine tunnel and rigging the gear!!!
Doooods, sweeeet Bonanza!!! That panel!!!!!
Super hefty bill but for sure you did the right thing on that Conti. If you were to flip it, it’s a crap shoot whether you’d recoup but you’re hanging on to it. I’ve discovered pitted lifter faces before, even on both engines of a 310 (IO520). Some say it’s the oil, some say moisture from sitting, yet others say manufacture defect. I really don’t know.
Ridiculous how much parts are for aircraft, seriously. It sounds like your mechanic is competent, ethical and transparent. Perfect for that gorgeous Beech!
Great video skills too!
Yea I’ve been trying to figure out what causes the corrosion pitting issues.
I think you did the right thing. Almost a complete OH, and you saved 15-25k. Break in properly! Aggressively lean (almost stopped, then enrich a bit) during taxi out and taxi in.
When was working on my Pilot's license, I was in the Air Force and stationed at Moffett Naval Air Station in Sunnyvale. My long cross country was to Ukiah, and then to Livermore and back. I flew over the Golden Gate at 8,000 feet. Just magic.
If it’s good enough and the expert say it’s good then you did the right thing. Happy many hours of flying. The colours lid great.
I was lucky enough to get to fly a friends new 94/ F33- alot. The Owner traveled overseas a lot, and I was the CFII that checked him out when he bought the airplane, so it was a nice situation. I agreed to pay for an annual one year. The airplane was basically new, so it was something like $1,800 at Roselle Aviation at Janesville, WIS. A long time ago. When he decided to sell it, I flew it back to Wichita to the Broker, but made a stop at Beech field to visit the factory. They were very nice, and gave me a tour. I miss that airplane.
Yep when I bought my cheaftin twin engine it came with a fresh 100 hour MR when it when in for its first 50 hour service the amount of things they found was ridiculous it cost me so much money to fix but it gets you thinking exactly what shops are doing as a example my fire extinguisher was out of date by 13 years how can something so simple like that get ignored but so many things were out of date or out of time but I bought the plane with a fresh mr they will put bandages on things for a quick sale 😡😡😡
Wow! My father in-law owned 4 planes at one time doing a lease back and 25 years ago he told me he spent $25,000 on a complete rebuild of his Mooneys engine and I decided right then and there that flying and owning a plane was not going to happen for me. Your F-33 looks absolutely stunning!
Real beautiful airplane. Worth all the money just the way it looks inside and out.
Major props to the whole JR team. Always making videos exciting and always elaborating! Some people just think your a bunch of rich kids, but only real ones know the story and grind! Keep it up man, absolutely amazing content and very entertaining!
I appreciate that! Thank you!
@@JRAviation no worries man! Where’s can I inquire with business opportunities as well?
Owen and the bay tour legit never gets old
I spent the month of July in 1970 on Treasure Island (Navy) on my way to Pearl Harbor. Interesting place.
Your decision was sensible, I have a friend that has a lyc io 720 at Lycon in California that has been there for 2 years
My Cardinal RG first annual was $15k, 4 new cylinders, second annual was $13k with new G5s. Lots of catchup maintenance.
The last annual on my Cessna 150 cost about $4000. All the ones previous in the last 6 years were between $750-1500. It was a Timebuilder that I was operating on a pretty low budget. Now I have my airline job and some extra cash so we decided to take care of all the things I’ve been “putting off” for the last several years. Now she should be good to go for years to come.
I own a Beechcraft Sierra BE24 and I had a rough go these last 4 months. Over 10k in repairs. First was a cylinder, mag harness was bad and air intake housing was broken. The first flight back I lose the audio panel so while it went in for repairs I said do the prop eddy current test and my IFR recert so that was more. Now the battery is weak and getting replaced. Normally I never spent more than 3k tops on annuals and I do all suggested items but this year with the cylinder going bad it hurt hard!!! I would never rent anymore though, the schedule was always booked and it was getting 150 plus per hour. I can come and go with my own plane and I don't owe anything on it as I paid cash. I would say if you got your bonanza for that 30k change then it's not so bad. A good running one would be well over 100k so you're in a good spot! Keep it up, it's very pretty.
Considering how much a new Bonanza costs today, it still seems like a deal.
But when I learned to fly, it cost $12.50/hr for the Cessna 152 and $5/hr for the instructor. $17.00/hr for a 172!
When was this? I’m out here paying 178$ an hour for the plane and 70$ for instructor, but I’m guessing inflation contributed a lot to the numbers you gave?
@@abdullaal-obaidi833 this was 1970. When I got my IFR in mid ‘90’s, it was $95/hr for a 172 and $50/hr for the instructor.
That had to be back in the 70s when I took my courses@@abdullaal-obaidi833
$12.50/ hr, were 1960’s prices! Beach Air, LGB.
Heck ,I remember those days.
Average annual for my 2009 Cessna 400 is about 6-10 grand a year on average. This year I decided to order a factory new TSIO550. Engine shipped yesterday for a whopping 105K. N43TT
105k holy smokes!