While the road trip has gone very well, I'm still not entirely convinced this should be the future, and plenty of my thoughts on the topic are in the video. However, would I do this journey again, yes I would, it went well and the car performed very nicely.
Can I suggest Tim your and my forefathers may of said exactly the same thing about combustion cars when only a few hundred were on the roads. With little or no infrastructure to support them.
Synthetic fuels are much better because it keeps all the benefits of combustion and is more environmentally friendly than an electric car. The only downside is price, but considering how heavily taxed fossil fuels are in Europe, the difference in price shouldn’t be too big.
Tesla knew that mainstream manufacturers would start making better cars then theirs. So they prioritised their charging network as that alone makes it worth buying a Tesla
It’s not that bad, I’ve had an e208 and have never had any issues doing 1000mi road trip and multiple 250mi road trips, apart from 1 10min wait (was a free charger so worth it)
Towards your discussion near the 16:29 mark: one thing nobody has talked about yet (or at least I haven't noticed it being mentioned anywhere) is that if you replace the battery pack of your EV at (say) the 10-year mark, you end up with a nearly-new EV (electric motors basically lasting almost for ever). That way you could get a 60-70 year EV (the 2nd battery pack would probably last 15 years, etc.). The older EV battery pack can still be used in many other applications (people are already doing this): retrofitting to sail boats, as backup power pack for homes (coupled with inverters) etc.
Your mention of the charger cable potentially laying on the paint/wrap, made me realize I have a solution for that problem. There are these 'woolen' fleece & velcro pads made for seat-belt shoulder straps to keep them from, in my case, rubbing on a pacemaker, or your neck, etc. These would be ideal for padding the cable if it must make contact with the bodywork.
Being of a certain age, your closing comments about the demise of engineering triumphs reminded me of the demise of steam trains in my schooldays. Will be just see V12 engined cars in museums, brought out for special events? I won't be around to see that question answered and I am not sad about that.
Well-heeled petrolheads like Shmee will continue to tear around in supercars powered by very expensive synthetic fuels made with renewable electricity, as Porsche proposes; the same fuel that airplanes will need. But as Shmee admits, he drives to the Shmuseum in a quick, quiet, clean BEV before hooning around in a noisy combustion-engined car.
@@chemicalfrankie1030 that's a poor argument. All countries have some wind and solar. Most countries have burned through whatever fossil fuel assets they had, and have to go to war (economic or military) to ensure fossil fuel imports.
A different guy unplugs that Mini. There's a really good chance he was just a guy waiting to talk to Shmee about what owning one is like, because he's tempted o make the switch. It's a very common experience for electric motorists currently.
Been loving the real life implications of the collection. The EV everyday issues, along with the running cost/ spec price videos from the schmuseum have been really interesting. Brings us back to the reality that such an endeavor, though being a dream still has the baggage that comes along with it. "With great power comes great responsibility":)
His experience is his and not yours. Also, he's talking about the Taycan owning experience, that's not all EV's. Lots more charging options for Tesla's and they charge quickly everywhere without issues. I've had mine for 3-years now and love the experience. For a daily driver, it's my favorite car at any price.
This is incredible consumer advice. Compared to 20 min tire sledding reviews, an owner who provides in depth use with pros and cons is immensely valuable. You raise an important point on production , carbon, and how much it takes to offset the production carbon of an electric car AND when electric car batteries become inefficient.
I agree in part but he really does need to try these in a Tesla. While I am not a great fan of the cars (despite having two of them) the infrastructure they have built is a work of art. Also, the carbon footprint of getting a liter of fuel to your pump is never included in the carbon offset calculations and it is enormous when you think of the ships, the tanker trucks, the refineries, the storage, the vehicles and manufacturing required to build and maintain all these etc etc. Whereas, if you have renewable energy as is available in some countries the EV has zero carbon impact after it is built.
@@g0balot I don't entirely agree with your comment either about the zero carbon impact. A lot of electricity is still produced using fossil fuels. The manufacturing process for solar cells also has a carbon footprint as does the process for the manufacture, transport and installation of wind turbines. The elephant in the room with EYs is the environmental impact of extracting lithium for the batteries, that is often overlooked.
@@JustLiveInPeace2 Actually I was thinking of places like Norway which is mostly hydro electric power. Also you have to remember that e.g. wind turbines are also producing electricity for everyday use which otherwise would be made up with coal or gas. I am not an EV advocate for environmental reasons although I see that as an extra benefit but I think we need to be honest. Mining lithium does have an impact but batteries are being recycled and EV's can contribute to a wider plan to get energy emissions down whereas petrol cars can not. As I said, the carbon costs of manufacturing a car, even an electric car, are dwarfed but the footprint of getting a liter of petrol out of a pump. But hey, I am not a radical about this, I am just a guy who bought his first EV so he could use the bus lanes on the way to work and now finds the driving experience so much better and a trip to a petrol station as feeling like a dirty, smelly throwback to a bygone age. I don't begrudge anyone who has a love for petrol cars though but I would encourage daily drivers to try an EV for a while.
It may be worth noting that electric car batteries have a second life as grid storage which will allow us to be more - not completely - independent on renewable energy sources. The water cooled batteries in the latest electric cars are proving to be reliable for over a 100,000 miles whilst retaining more than 80% of their capacity. The average car is scrapped after 14 years in the UK with the majority scrapped by 20 years so an electric car needs to be able to easily last 20 years to keep the average age of cars on our roads up. But yes, driving a slightly more environmentally green car in the UK does little to the overall problem, but it does lead the way for others to follow.
Sure, they can last even longer than ICE cars, but if after 8 years the battery is only 80% or so, that is a problem. It is the most expensive component. We'll better recycle them and reuse the lithium, because we'll have great problems with aquiring that when each year will be made a few dozen millions of EVs (and we have to also add trucks, buses, excavators, bulldozers (I guess we'll have electric ones, too), bikes and all sorts of other machines + the electronics).
the only problem with electric car that nobody talk about is that.... it doesn't exist a natural source of electric energy, electric energy is just a vector of other forms of natural energy. So turning to electric cars without the provider of electricity turning to more clean sources of energy production change absolutely nothing.
There are 1,5 billion vehicles on this planet. 65% are not in rich "western societies". If you believe that this obscure expensive technology could be implemented in Kyrgistan,Bulgaria and Burkina Fasso you're delusional. Right now we are subsidizing rich home owners at the expence of working class slowly being priced out of essential mobility.
If you are referring to total or all encompassing C02 footprint, both the media and especially politicians focus on the usage stage and casually ignore the first production phase as well as the last recycling phase. Ignorance is bliss!
I really liked this content but have we forgotten that petrol cars become less efficient over time and in 8 years your taycan will still do far more miles per charge than my current mg zs and would be worth a lot to me. A Porsche with a degraded totally usable battery has value and will continue do mileage suitable for its user. Not knowing the content of JM on cars discussion, you did not mention burning of fuel and replacing oil over decades of ice usages just emissions of manufacturer. Oil is shipped refined then transported but not calculated even as you dodge the congestion charge because you have no tailpipe emissions. Great points raised thought out and strangely this might actually make petrolheads consider an EV as a second car or daily driver if they have no intention of using the UK network right now.
My 19 year old, 450,000 mile diesel van still does within 5% the mpg it did when it was new. Last year I hired an EV van to see if I could live with one.... Glad I didnt buy one. Once the van was loaded for a days work, the range plumeted from an almost acceptable 180 miles to just 50 miles! I often had to do 2 charges per day and the morning charge which could have been the over night one but, No charge point at home! Add the charge time to the drive time to the charge point, then to another charge point because most seem to be broken/not working.. Then theres the charging wait. The wait if someone is already there. All that wait time, drive time and charging time is a killer for my business, to the point.. I cannot use an EV for my business.
Your thoughts on this electric car are very analytical, very good indeed! One mustn´t forget the anxiety aspects of driving such a car at a long distance. Thanks from Portugal/UK.
Tim, You may have thought you were "waffling on" in the segment "Do Electric Cars Work" however, I felt it was the best part of your video and I would say, and encourage you, to become more of a voice in the matter. Personally I believe the carbon output to produce and maintain and the fact that EV's do not have nearly the life as Internal Combustion engines is a waste. Your comments --- and I've heard you say this before --- that better can be done with improving IC cars and the fuels to inject less emissions is the way to go. Thank you.
This guy is the last person who should comment on sustainability. His lifestyle is extremely unsustainable and his only real defence of it is that he's a "petrol head"
@@italianstallion701 That says nothing about those vehicles' conditions though. Maybe they are worn out? Tesla also exchanged all motors (for allegedly improved constructions) on older models I think twice because it turned out they weren't durable.
They never take the cost of the environmental impact in getting the oil out of the ground, to a refinery, refine it, then to the station for use with a pump .... they only assume the petrol magically got there on it's own. So yes a Polestar 2 (as the example you gave) uses 10 more ton's of CO2 to make ... but it doesn't take 20,000 miles to equalise ... is in the mid thousands .... but C02 isn't the ONLY environmental impact to consider. There are pro's and cons on both ends ... take your kids to school in an EV and you are not exposing other kids to the crap that comes out of an ICE vehicle.
the US car is most lickly military, and my guess they are probably stationed in rammstein or geilenkirchen Germany (maybe a base in belgium i don't know about?)
Shmee, To get a better idea how smooth and anxiety-free EV ownership can be, you should try buying a Model S Plaid and giving it a go with the Tesla supercharger network. 😀
Aikido Toyoda has been saying this but tree huggers wail every time anyone raises concerns even though toyota took it upon itself to develop better technologies. Does anyone know what 40m evs a year will look like?
@@2017NationalChamps well you pay fines if you don't meet emissions targets. So what's the use of developing an ICE platform if you can use it for the next 10 years? You are then forced to develop something your not 100 percent sure about just to avoid fines.
@@2017NationalChamps we tried something new with ICE cars without understanding the consequences and we got climate change. Electric cars excite me but scare me at the same time because I don't believe anyone knows what 40m evs a year will mean for us. Politicians are just pushing these regulations just to please voters and car companies only care about profits no matter what they say. For example EU governments force auto makers to fit OPF filters for EU cars but don't care about cars sold in other continents? Does that sound like they care about global omissions or just their green European cities?
Acctually, second lifetime battery usage in for example homes is already possible. Also batteries can be recycled for 90%. U also dont have to drive hundrets of km. to offset your CO2 Bagpack: "The manufacturing process of a Model 3 currently results in slightly higher GHG emissions than an equivalent combustion engine vehicle. However, based on the global weighted average grid mix, a Model 3 has lower lifetime emissions than an equivalent ICE after driving 5,340 miles." and no i am not a tesla fanboy ;) i just chose the most advanced and efficient car on the market for my usage.
I think it’s hilarious how you always say that you will drive the car until it’s nearly empty and then charge in order to optimize the charging curve and in the next clip you say “I plugged in at 36% and now I’m at 46%” 😂 I would consider
Well none commenting on the situation and outlook of electric driving. Slippery slope, and probably not to everybody’s liking, but resonates with me (in the process of getting my first electric car to join 4 combustion engine cars)
Oh, well as a longtime car enthusiast and 2 year owner of a Model 3 Tesla, let me tell you it’s by far the finest vehicle I’ve ever owned. And speaking as a Mechanical Engineer who’s picky and has designed for major car manufacturers....there’s nothing of any consequence that I would change. In my personal opinion, it’s nuts to buy anything other than a Model 3 or Y today...for a whole host of reasons.
Engineering Explained showed the math on the carbon emissions of electric vs gas and it actually doesn't take long to offset the carbon emissions. It happens pretty quickly.
@@fivish water is beneficial and makes our crops grow too. How much corn can you grow under water? 😂 The problem isn't what it is, the problem is we have a little too much of it and it's having an adverse effect that we need to address
@@fivish Some CO2 is not a problem, but a lot of CO2 is a problem. Look at planet Venus. Despite being further from the Sun compared to Mercury, the surface temperature of Venus is a lot higher. Why? Because of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Also after a certain point, CO2 is even bad for plant life.
It's been really interesting watching you trip across Europe with the Taycan especially the relative ease of charging, for me over here it's only worth doing if I used an electric for daily from home & install my own charger, but the cost is massive, Rj in Oz
i have a 2015 Tesla model S with 180,000 kms on the clock, it still has 95% of its original range, so I'm not too sure i'll have to scrap it next year as you suggest, it also has a 8 year guarantee on battery and drivetrain...... It still has a value of about 35000 to 40000 euros in France so I cannot see it being `worthless`next year.... I often do trips of 1000kms eg Geneva to London, The 5% lost range, is not a problem as it is getting faster at doing the trip as I can charge at a faster part of the charging curve with better charging availability, The car has free charging, needs much less servicing, and battery costs are reducing between 10 and 20% a year, so when I eventually do need a new battery it will be much cheaper. Only problem is that the cars build quality is average to say the least, and repair costs are very high. with your environmental analysis you forgot to add on the cost of making the fuel which is almost as much a the wasted energy of a thermic car
I love how you can articulate thought and deliver it in such a comprehensive manner, and the fact that I also feel the same way about cars just solidifies my perceptions about the politiking that surrounds EV and Climate Change. Thank you for being such an interesting person that, not only entertains thoroughly, but also educates quite well. 🙌
If you want to reduce your carbon footprint, trade your gasser for an EV unless you live in coal-powered Poland. Or don't own a 2-ton car at all. We need to rapidly end the burning of fossil fuels, and electrifying land transportation is one of the easier problems to solve.
Nice to hear the thoughts from someone indifferent about EVs, most reviews are very pro EV and refuse to see problems or run EV channels so obviously won’t criticise them. Balance is good.
UK seems totally insane with a horrible neglected Charging Network. That is just pathetic. Tim nailed that demanding massive improvement. But he got one fact massively wrong. 8 Year life span is a erroneous false rumour. Rav4 EV from 1990s averaged about 17 years. Modern BEVs are not much better but can do crazy high mileage easily over 300,000 miles. If he wants to argue about emissions and resource consumption please use the accurate lifespan numbers.
The reason most reviews are very pro EV is because they're awesome, underappreciated, and a lot of the common criticisms are misplaced (and frankly often sourced from OEMs, probably trying to delay EV uptake so they can stay afloat with many of their assets tied to ICE manufacturing). The impracticality of an EV in specific use-cases is definitely a noteworthy compromise for some, and there's a few other compromises which should be no secret and need to be addressed. But just because he's not pro-EVs does not make him any less biased than anyone else.
@@Muskar2 people buy EVs because they suit their lifestyle. Sadly they can’t seem to grasp that other people have different lifestyles or driving requirements.
@@Muskar2 i think there are two, equally aweful, forces at work. 1) Estatablished car manufacturers protecting their current investments in ICE 2) Governments pushing and pushing EVs, irrespective of practicality, offering huge tax benefits to EV drivers. Both have their agendas. None can be trusted, best would be to let consumers decide. Realize that once the majority is driving electric, all tax benefits will disappear. Currently we ship our old used cars to developing countries, thus creating a secondhand value. How will this workout for EVs? EVs in Eritrea? Really?
Regarding your lifecycle comment, a) the carbon emissions are based on an assumption that the energy used to make the car is carbon-based which isn’t necessarily true (even steel is now being smelted using electricity not coal), and b) the mechanics of these cars is far simpler than combustion cars so they last longer. Teslas can run happily for 300k miles or so. I admit I’m biased because of my Green Part affiliation but that doesn’t mean I am wrong. It would be be good to have a debate one day perhaps so we can challenge each other respectfully with facts and see whether we can arrive at a consensus. For me I’m afraid I think we have to clamp down on the overall carbon supply chain which is why I support EVs.
Do electric cars work segment was the most aware of what's really going on in the world point I've heard from a automotive youtuber. Bravo for speaking it Shmee!
He got one part factually wrong. 8 Years life span is massively wrong. Rav4 EV from 1990s averaged around 17 years. Modern BEV batteries do not have better Life Span but way better mileage easily over 300,000 miles. Soo if you do a resource consumption and emission comparison you have to use the accurate life span figures.
Interesting video Tim. So annoying that this side of the channel has charger reliability issues. Agree with you totally in terms of how much improvement is needed.
Done two major road trips in the past few months in EVs. First from Norway to Italy in a Polestar 2, then from Oslo to Munich in my Audi E-Tron GT. Mostly without any issues, but where I see you have issues I've also had issues and that is with ABB chargers. Those are so faulty and have many issues regardless of country!
203 cruise liners operated in Europe in 2017. These emitted 62 kilo tons of sulphur oxides. Europe’s 260 million cars produced 3.2 kilo tons in the same period. Clearly motorists are an easy target and seen as the bad people, but going on holidays in pointless floating shopping centres is ok.
These sorts of comments are so frustrating, you understand car emissions also have a significant impact on air quality in urban areas increasing respiratory illnesses in its populations. Our entire mindset of pollution needs to change, it’s not a case of only changing some aspects
With the limited amount of geography available in certain countries it will be difficult to implement charging infrastructure successfully. The main concern is the amount of petrol still available in the earth and how it is extracted, not just carbon emissions. Compare the finite resource of petrol to the 'unlimited reserve' of electricity that is captured through sustainable methods and you will find that this is the main reason for the push for EV's. The remaining petrol should be and will be used for more important means and endeavors of the world.
I completely agree about the furthering of study with engine cleanliness and efficiency alongside cleaner fuels like synthetic fuels would be wonderful
A clean synthetic fuel is going to be the way for the next few decades, I think. All these countries talking about mandating EV's act like they haven't taken a look around at the nearly 100 year old power grids with wires strung up through trees...
@@opmike343 exactly! Don't get me wrong EV's can be cool but Synthetic fuels are a great way to deal with the problem. Especially for cargo ships and planes, they are the big polluters
@@opmike343 The power grid is less carbon intensive than burning fossil fuel, and since wind and solar are The cheapest new generation, it will only get cleaner. If electric utilities can't improve it to meet increasing demand for their product required by the electrification of land transportation, heating, industrial processes, etc. then they're incompetent or badly regulated. Synthetic green fuels will be great for petrolheads like Shmee to continue driving around in their farting and rumbling machines, but they will unavoidably be punishingly expensive because they will require far more of the renewable electricity (that you think is so rickety) than just putting it straight into a battery.
I really like your take on EVs and I think Youre absoutely right....I really hope combustion engine cars never stop and people understand the whole carbon neutral thing
EXCELLENT very balanced review - thank you. It will be a long time before I ever buy an EV ! Even now, I feel I’ll regret doing so, due to short range and time wastage- never to be recovered. Thanks for your very valuable post. Newer ICE are so clean and economical, I do not like being “ forced “ to change.
Other people don't like breathing in the disgusting exhaust you're dumping in their faces but they're "forced" to do so. If I could make you pay for the privilege, I doubt you'd consider it very economical.
Every ICE car burns through literally tons of dirty fossil fuel over its lifetime, directly contributing to global warming. In many places it's cheaper to recharge an efficient EV than to refuel with petrol.
I own an ID4 and in the Republic of Ireland the experience has been pretty good in terms of charging. I've done a bit of travel around the country and there always seems to be a charger at a reasonable distance. The most common are the 22kw chargers with a few "fast chargers" of 50kw... I only know 1 or 2 mainly in VW dealers where you can get the Unity and get the real fast charge experience. But overall... even for long journeys, with the 50kw is quick enough for top ups.
Had the same discussion about EV's & emissions a while ago with a few friends. And i'm as well questioning whether it's the right move at the moment, maybe in the future as technology progresses, but i feel like the overall issue won't be resolved in the next decade. There are so many contributions towards emissions and pollution from EV's, most you have mentioned, pollution from production, increase in production (due to limited life span), waste disposal (what happens to these cars and components when they are not effective anymore), and increase in fossil fuel emissions from coal power companies (Possible the need for more "green energy"). I don't think we are in the position to make such a rapid transition at the moment.
You really should swap the Porsche for a Tesla and compare your experience. I think you'd find many of the problems already solved, especially the charging infrastructure availability, cost and reliability. Also, Engineering Explained did an in-depth comparison of a typical petrol car vs. a Tesla Model 3 and found the cross-over point for emissions at around 47k miles. It's also not true that EVs are scrap after 8 years. An 8 year old Tesla Model S with 350k kms (250k kms on the battery) only loses about 12% of charge. There is also much less to go wrong and wear out. I think you'll find they outlast the typical petrol car, which may be why they hold their value so well on the 2nd hand market.
I’d recommend an Audi etron gt instead of taycan they are practically the same minus the battery problem and quality although a Tesla model a would be great as well they are just different cars tbh and everyone will like different things I personally just don’t like the Tesla screen but others probably would.
Really great video Mr Shmee, and very interesting debate. I remember when we purchased our first diesel car back in 2001 it was supposed to be the right thing to do, as it was more economical and therefore better for the environment, how wrong were we. The biggest problem our planet faces is OVER POPULATION, like you said, so why isn't more being done to limit population growth, this is the number one problem. This is a great debate, so let's here your comments!!!
It's not just the CO2 coming out of your car's exhaust. You must take a look at the whole supply chain. Drilling for the oil, processing the oil, transporting the fuel, damage to water and land from such extractive industries.
You just have to drive around 10000 miles in an EV to completely offset the extra CO2 needed to produce the EV. So EV is still a huge win relative to gasoline car in terms of emissions
There are some technologies developed that can use CO2 from the atmosphere to produce gasoline, making the fuel carbon neutral. The problem with it needs to be done at large scale to become economical and the tech is currently protected by patents. I would prefer to see funding and legislation going towards this rather then EVs
I tested the Taycan for a week. After the first 10 minutes of excitement in Sport Plus mode, it felt exactly like any other EV except you don’t get a sunroof and the Taycan is a boat of a car. One reason I left the UK to move back home to Germany is that the roads in the UK are atrocious and then there is the speed limit and lots of cameras! Top speed in the Taycan is 268 km/h. So, the only - and I mean only - benefit is the acceleration. Only to say, is that if you are into EVs and like Porsches, wait for the Maycan EV due out in early 2022. More power and more useful including a sunroof! 👌🏻
yes, the charging problems... this is why people buy a Tesla over the Porsche, the supercharger network is 100 times better and more reliable than all the other chargers put together...
@@ThePredatherion just basic it’s one of the most advanced cars on the market doesnt mean it has character :/. Tesla’s are simply (and in quite poor quality) built to get from point a to b. They don’t have a driving experience. They have no emotion you can’t talk to it like you can with most. other cars in that price range and above. It’s just bland, characterless and basic
I wonder what would be cheaper for me: Buy a 2nd hand Tesla for 35k EURO, or a 2nd hand Mercedes C63 for 20k EURO, when it comes to doing road trips in Europe. Service and taxes would definitely be more expensive for the C63, but then again the purchase price of the Tesla is higher. What do you guys think?
The construction of an EV does indeed emit more CO2 than that of a comparable ICE vehicle... at least for the time being, as it might change in the future. However, the GHG break-even between eV and ICE does not happen after "tens or even hundreds of thousands of miles", as you said but, in the case of the Tesla Model 3, after some 5'300 miles!!! (Source: Tesla Impact Report 2020, pages 11 and 12). Also, an EV will outlast an ICE vehicle considerably, not the other way around! Batteries will now last in excess of half-a-million miles! EVs conserve their value much much better than ICE vehicles.... whose residual value is going to fall off a cliff in a very few years. So, either your information is biased, or very dated indeed!
Thank you for the analysis. That's what I try to tell people who try to say EVs are worse for the environment. Yes, making them is more harmful, but once they're done being made, they will never emit another milligram of CO2 again.
@@snakeeyes9246 not only CO2, but also toxic emissions like NOx or micro-particulates. Those are never taken into account and are killing people. EVs obviously emit none of those…
@@francoisbadoux625 yes, that is true too. People just want an excuse to keep ICE vehicles on the road. I am all in for the EV future. The only thing holding me back is money. I guess it's time to start investing.
@@snakeeyes9246 well… I invested in TSLA in March 2013, and then again in June and July of 2019. I could buy half a dozen Model S Plaid if I sold those shares… but won’t, not even one. Tesla still got a huge growth runway ahead! Actually, they have hardly started exercising their muscles!
It’s the design trade offs. It’s not hard to get super range with moderate performance cars. Just car adding batteries and don’t worry too much about handling. Koennigseg has the right idea for super high performance. High HP small motor, just enough batteries for 4 wheel drive but handles amazing because it’s not carrying a ton of batteries. Range and performance issues solved.
Loved the video, good job! One remark: what were the efficiency gains in the last 30 years of R&D in combustion engines? Hint: my dad’s VW Passat in the early nineties was averaging 5 liters of diesel per 100km. Gains have only been marginal in the last 30 years. Now: what were the efficiency gains in the last 5 years for EVs? This is only the beginning of serious R&D invested in EVs. It may not look so much better than ICE now, but probably will be in only a couple of years.
My 19 year old, 450,000 mile diesel van still does within 5% the mpg it did when it was new. 1x 5 min fill up gives me 600 miles with the van loaded without a worry. Last year I hired an EV van to see if I could live with one.... Once the van was loaded for a days work, the range plumeted from an almost acceptable 180 miles to just 50 miles! I often had to do 2 charges per day and the morning charge which could have been the over night one but, No charge point at home! Add the charge time to the drive time to the charge point, then to another charge point because most seem to be broken/not working.. Then theres the charging wait. The wait if someone is already there. All that wait time, drive time and charging time is a killer for my business, to the point.. I cannot use an EV for my business. Glad I didnt buy an EV van.
Reference your talk about emissions, the petrol engine’s only issue is the fuel going into it. When POrsche goes online with their synthetic fuel this issue will disappear. Governments will have to rethink their rules on selling combustion engines.
5:48 sold me on electric!! With chronic back pains I can't sit in the car for long. At the same time I hate taking breaks as, you know, I just enjoy being on the road. Breaks every couple hours for a top off might make a nice solution. Then again, as mentioned a bit later, availability of chargers. in the US I don't think I've seen a charging station in the wild. though, at best I get about 150 miles out of town due to pain. But I'm almost certain we don't have Shell stations pushing charges. Personally I doubt I'll ever have an EV & despise this dream of mandating all vehicles be electric in X years. personally I like the zooms, vrooms and kabooms. Also I'm not entirely sold on this being a smart, clean alternative. lithium is not good & the process of ensuring these battery packs get discarded of properly or recycled? Look at what plastic has done even with recycling... Plus they still need a power plant producing electricity for the charges. And the biggest. The lack of life of an EV & the cost to replace that engine [battery pack]. Tesla wants $24k for a battery replacement!!?? 90% of people with cars can't afford a $2,000 fix to their car let alone a bill....... & you are absolutely right Schmee. More should be going into what can be done to make combustible engines better and cars on the market more friendly to the planet. And yes, the pollution we output from manufacturing, growth, etc are much larger polluters than the vehicles on the road. EV is a false sense of doing something for the planet. 2 cents.
You don't seem to realize that a 2-ton 35 mpg (USA gallons) car will burn through 10 TONS of gasoline over 120,000 miles, that is far filthier to mine, refine, spill than making a battery, and it all goes up in smoke to cause global warming. The problem is burning fossil fuel, and adding a 1/2-ton recyclable battery greatly reduces the tonnage. Even on today's mix of electrical generation. Since the majority of new generation is wind and solar, because it's cheap, EVs will only get cleaner.
The crack on the windscreen makes me so nervous haha It is like that small dent on one door or a scratch on the bumper that nobody notices, but you know where it is and your eyes magnetically get attracted to it.
you covered everything I have been trying to tell people about electric vehicles! outstanding! Prime example of the old dead or dieing battery issue and net worth of the car look at older Toyota Prieus.. Battery is 5000.00 but the car it's needs to go into is only worth 2000.00. I really liked this video. You are not wrong and here in the states we have the very same issues
I like how he starts to explain how expensive it is to charge, but instead of giving a price, it’s a super obscure reference to the cost vs his V12 Ferrari fuel cost? 🤔
£64.55 to fully charge Taycan Turbo S from 0% to 100% at Ionity charging station in UK and returns 200 miles. Ferrari FF V12 costs about £120 full tank and returns around 350 miles.
@@AncientMysteriesAndInnovations Less competitors on the market. They offer 350kW speed and charge 69p per kWh. Only few people use this network in emergency situations. If you charge it at home, it would only cost 5p per kWhor similar rate depending on provider. Mine is Octopus and they offer 7p kWh. Very cheap.
Most owners charge at home on cheap overnight rates. Which significantly reduces the annual spend on, I literally on pay these high rates at fast chargers a handful of times. Including a recent trip to southern Spain . Shmee should report on his annual savings now he can charge at the shmuseum.
I agree with almost everything Tim said. Lots of growing pains soo early in the development stage of deploying EVs. But I object to the false rumor that the batteries are dead in over 8 years. Rav4 EV from 1990s averaged about 17 years of road worthy battery. Modern BEVs are not much better basically the same life span, but they can have way crazier mileage closer to 400,000 Miles on bigger batteries like a Taycan 4S. If you actually compared the Service Life of both ICE & BEV, BEVs are still much cleaner and require tonnes less resources. Even on the UK Dirty Electric Grid mix, which has near zero Crude Oil fueling electric generation. It's very true BEVs require more resource to manufacture thus have worse footprint at ZERO miles. But that does not apply to vast majority of vehicles other than Collector Cars Garage Queens. Fact is BEVs are not 100% clean but still much much cleaner and LESS RESOURCES in sheer tonnage than ICE over their service life.
After 14,000 miles with my first EV I wrote an article for my website. According to the Nissan app the car had saved 3,895kg of CO2 emissions. I understand Nissan base that on the average carbon emissions of our electricity supply. However, the Leaf had been charged with renewables so the CO2 saving was probably greater. Also many EVs will be manufactured carbon neutral if they aren’t already. Look up the new battery factory being constructed in Scandinavia by Northvolt. They’ll supply most of Europe’s manufacturers with carbon neutral batteries.
This video was going so well until you pulled out the EV myth bingo card. It's about 30k miles for an EV to recover the build cost in CO2, and how many cars do you know that have less than 30k after 7 years! Also, there are plenty of EVs that are 7 or 8 years old with 50k plus miles on them, and still at 90% battery capacity, most batteries will last half a million miles without losing more than 25% capacity, and that's current technology!
The ridiculous notion that the car is worthless after 15 years was hilarious too - just because the battery pack doesn't have the same range doesn't in any way make the car worthless, the whole thing reeked of a petrol head trying to justify not wanting an EV. Crappy information, crappily researched, very disappointing.
@@phileasfogg3536 I agree it's a good thing to be doing, but for me it's amazing that in ONLY 30k / 60k miles the EV recovers the CO2, even ignoring the city centre pollution etc., yet the media stories and now Shmee put it across like it's a huge negative against EVs, always taking the highest figure - which is a large luxury vehicle and a poor energy mix - as opposed to the far more common small city car which has a much quicker pay off. I don't get it. EVs will last longer than ICE vehicles, the batteries will last longer and certainly maintain more of their "at birth" usefulness than an engine per mile, and every single mile you do in them you're winning back a CO2.
@@tbourner10 if you believe EVs recover their production carbon costs in 30,000 miles, you are living in dream land. There's so many ways they can hide the true figures, did they take account of building the new production plants and machinery? No? Thought not. Etc etc. They also offset carbon costs. The whole thing is a minefield of lies and deceit
The 3 biggest hurdles going forward are converting power grids to be sourced from renewables, infrastructure, and the management of mineral resource scarcity
I think some of your arguments are exaggerated. Take the Tesla model 3, it has a battery guarantee that covers it for 8 years or 120,000 miles where it must still hold a 70% charge. The battery itself can run for 300k to 500k. And it might cost £8k if you want to replace the battery itself. It will match/exceed the ICE for longevity, but consider the additional parts that an ICE needs, the endless repairs for parts that don't exist in an EV. Just the breaks alone, the EV uses regen and barely uses the main pads. EV don't need oil changes etc. The savings in running and fuel costs are enough to cover a new battery if you ever needed to change. By the time it becomes unsable the whole car will need replacing anyway. You say an ICE car runs for decades, that reminds me of trigger saying he had the same broom for a decade, it just needed 5 new handles and 6 new broom heads. I like mechanical watches, but I pick up a quartz watch for a durable grab and go. It's vinyl vs streaming music. I agree on battery recycling and other enviorment issues that push the pollution elsewhere, but ICE has had 100 years to develop and EV has moved from the zero to the model S Plaid in 10 years. If it meets your daily range needs and you can keep it charged then just buy a model 3/long range plus a weekender ICE for fun. That charging infrastructure is just getting started, they'll be everywhere soon.
EVs have exsisted since later years of 1900s, and a battery change is definitely not 8k, not even for a Nissan Leaf. Try 16k, only then you're getting closer.
@@AP13P you're taking a leaf out of shmees biased or misinformed book. I was clearly talking about tesla when I quoted a model 3. a quick search shows the Nissan leaf battery replacement does not cost £16k at all. If you want to talk about when the very first cars started the its late 1800's for ICE, but ICE took off as that was the tech that could be developed at the time. ICE has had all the funding and you know it. There were models before telsa but only tesla have made mass produced practical use models. The model 3 is the real mass Break through. I feel bad for ICE, but its does feel like you're driving noisy old tech in ICE.
@@Jay-xr3sb it does, because I had to get rid of the 2nd gen Leaf due to that from my fleet. Want to know how much the Tesla battery change is, especially on Model 3 and S? Double that! And ICE cars definitely did not exist in 1800s lmao
@@AP13P The first stationary gasoline engine developed by Carl Benz was a one-cylinder two-stroke unit which ran for the first time on New Year’s Eve 1879.
You have the wrong car for a long road trip. 3 year's ago my family and I undertook a road trip from Edinburgh to Granada in Spain and back. Over 4000 miles. We used our Tesla Model S; only using the Tesla supercharger network. The trip was seamless. This is because Tesla own and service their own network. The map in the car is "live" and informs the driver of any problems , in advance.
Appreciate the thoughts, but there's a lot of information missing or incorrect. This is not the place to address it, but I would suggest doing much more homework before presenting. There are dozens of advanced battery technologies making, now, very quick progress. There are many advanced charging technologies we'll be seeing sooner than later. Battery recycle-ability will 100% improve. Doing an engine rebuild in an ICE rig will soon look ludicrous when replacement battery packs meet market-acceptable pricing. Without aggressive legislation, the industry would do nothing. History is rife with examples. One environmental problem cannot be equated with another - such as population vs. taking ICE cars off the road: they all contribute, and they all need to be addressed. What we can do, we should do. And since we all know humans have a tendency to wait too long to act, the sooner, the better. If you owned an EV in the western US - which has rapidly-maturing charging network, plenty of small companies and individuals attacking each and every new-tech hurdle already - most of what you experienced on this journey would be moot. That is what you have to look forward to, and not too long from now.
My opinion is having a hybrid tech where you have the flexibility to switch between power plants... Petrol or diesel engines can also be used as charging point with in the car and switch off engine to run on batteries... But ofcourse it will increase the weight but hey atleast better this way.. you do not compromise...
Regarding the cost, do a comparison for vast majority of owners as they charge at home, with off peak rates and etc. Road trips and the higher costs w DC chargers are such a small % of actual use.
@@absolutium Huh? I charge to 90% (AKA 297 miles) once or twice a week at my house. Rarely go under even 150m range during the week. And at off peak which comes out to $3 for 330 EPA rated miles cost. About the cost of a single gallon of gas these days. Requiring an extra stops during your day, and some in middle of winter, which are never fun. That's vast majority of annual charging needs, but maybe a could weekends where I hit one or two Superchargers.
Best Shmee video ever? Thank you for your honest user assessment of the electric car situation. Electric cars are cool, but they are not the end-all be-all solution to our problems.
Finally someone mentioning the real problems with EVs and thats their long therm usefullnes in terms off battery loosing capacity and making cars useless. And ofcourse the carbon footprint during their production is huge compared to how many kilometres you have to drive to compensate it. So its not so eco friendly compared to convention cars as they rry to convince us. Great vid and thanks for sharing your opinions.
Thank you so much Tim, that opinion bit was gold and needs to be shared around. I wish more people with your following would talk so honestly about their opinion on the subject.
@@Shmee150 it sure is. After driving the Taycan for 1,5 yrs now, I see of the benefits with an EV is actually the possibility to “fuel up” almost wherever you are. There’s always an outlet even in the most remote settlements. This summer I was on holiday on the outer skirts of the Oofoten Islands and the nearest petrol pump was half an hour driving away. The nearest socket was on the wall of our holiday house. 10A/230v is enough for 15-20% on the Taycan’s battery per day.
Much as I love all high end hydrocarbon fuelled cars, I think we need to 'push' a new era of vehicle. The electric motor is supremely elegant in comparison to a combustion engine and will soon deliver a far superior environmental and cost of ownership value proposition. Change always requires resistance but EVs have come a very long way in a very short time. Who knows what electrical power source will prevail but I do hope we can kick our addiction to hydrocarbons.
Unless battery capacities magically double over the next few years, it's going to be very difficult to convince even a person who drives around the city to get one of these
If there's one thing that is not an issue with evs, it's driving around the city. It's driving from one city to the next and onwards that's a bit more awkward.
Here in CA we get a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty on the batteries and electric motive components. This also covers battery degradation. We have a 9/10 year old Chevy Volt with 85k on the clock and zero battery degradation. Clever management systems, along with pack cooling and heating limit degradation substantially. AND this is 10 year old tech. I do think the overall green credentials of EV's need to be properly assessed though, I don't think it's really the long term answer or as green as we think. I bought mine to use the Car pool lane, but actually became a fan of driving electric.
Thank you for such a balanced and realistic viewpoint. I find EV owners online are very evangelical about EVs and usually just talk nonsense (pretending that the costs are close to zero, that a Tesla Model 3 costs less to buy than a Ford Focus, etc). We’ll all probably own EVs in the future, so it’s nice to know the truth.
@@chiron8762 What word would you use to describe such people? People who maintain EVs cost the same to buy as an equivalent ICE car, and cost next to nothing to recharge? I have to admit I’ve never come across an owner of a regular car who claims 300mpg and a purchase cost of half what the car actually does cost. Where have you met such people?
Fantastic points about EVs and the warped logic and politics surrounding them, Tim. As a Tesla Plaid owner, I agree, and I appreciate you being brave enough to go against the narrative on this one. You're right. IMO, we should be doing a lot more investing in synthetic fuels. No need to replace millions of cars and countless infrastructure; but then that's not as shiny (and lucrative) of a political platform, is it?
Has anyone told him about Zap Map and using that to plan journeys? Nice vlog. The car looks fantastic in that green. Looking forward to future videos. Keep up the good work.
You are exactly correct with your opinion on electric cars. Governments and automakers are moving too fast on the change, and they'll basically be worthless in 7 - 8 years when the batteries are greatly reduced. And what do we do with all the batteries???
One thing I notice that likely is missed from the cost calculations for electric cars is greater expense for the real estate associated with fill ups. Filling up a tank with gas takes a couple of minutes, while filling up electric vehicles might average 20 minutes. So there is no way you can service the same number of vehicles in an hour without a lot more real estate dedicated to that service, perhaps as much as 10 times the amount of land use as well as 10 times the number of chargers vs fuel pumps.
@@skierpage And what do you think produces the majority of the electricity, used to power all these electric cars. You are right we need to reduce our dependence on oil, but we still need to generate power. Hence lots and lots of solar, wind, atomic, power is needed.
@@andyglastonbury6032 sure, and we'll get there with cheap wind and solar (and prolonging current nuke plants while hoping for next-gen liquid thorium molten small salt modular blahblah reactors). But all recent studies conclude BEVs have lower CO2 overall than combustion engines already, unless you live in coal-powered Poland.
Hi Tim, you are so correct I work for ford and obviously we have the new Mach e and new kuga mhev and phev, these cars have a battery average life of ten years which after that they have to be changed also all battery’s for vehicles are made out of lithium which has to be dug out of the ground and is still destroying this planet and lithium cannot be recycled easily yet at this moment in time and is a very volatile substance. I personally think as a mechanic that a hydrogen vehicle will be more economical and a lot better to put time and money in, As these vehicle only emit water out of the exhaust. Any food for thought and it’s nice to here someone else speak about these issues it’s yet again rush rush rush and no big thought for the feature.
I couldn’t agree more with your thoughts on EVS and the way politicians are forcing the public and the manufacturers into it with no alternatives. Great video as always!
I think that your view is very balanced with regards to the use of electric cars, I will ordinarily buy a car outright, electric vehicles seem to be best used as a lease vehicle that you use for 2-3 years before returning to the dealer to renew your deal. You are right in your comments, I do think that hybrid cars may be a better solution these would at least negates the issue of range anxiety
When will county’s start building all the new generating facilities, and how will they be fueled, that will be necessary if/when the grid supplies all the energy previously produces by each gas/Diesel vehicles?
Don’t think there is a convincing answer to these questions yet. If every car that currently exists was converted to EV with the current grid we’d have significant issues in generation. Obviously one answer is “we need fewer cars”
Electric cars are fantastic match for the variable production of renewables; you price electricity for when renewables are generating plenty and many people will recharge at those times. In general many people recharge at night when there's little electric demand and wind power is cranking. The electrification of everything possible (heating, industry, the rest of land transportation, ...) will require vast amounts of renewable energy, fortunately it's the cheapest form of new generation so we can afford to do it and electric utilities should make money providing that electricity unless they're badly regulated.
@@JumboStiltskin it does appear Democrats are working overtime to eliminate Americans that can afford a car with their Killer injections (50,000 already killed) marketed as a “vaccine” plus the importing of illegals to replace that will be kept poor and dependent on Government handouts and never own a car, then taxing the successful into poverty!
@@skierpage Renewable energy had NO WHERE near the reliability needed to charge the number of EV’s the Democrats are trying to force on Americans, the VAST MAJORITY of the power required will have to come from OIL, NATURAL GAS, COAL or NUCLEAR! 90% of EVs will be charged at night and just a few in any given neighborhood will overload the current grids ability to supply power, lots of power 80 amps for 6 hours!
The best way to plan a distance beyond your range is to charge when your battery is not below 15-20% and only top it up to 80%. This way you wont have the slow initial charging from 0 to 10% and above 80% when charging slows down again. Like he says: a few top ups along the way (paired with a pi*s stop which we all need!:-) is the new way we will all get used to.
Get a Tesla!! I don’t have any of these problems. Porsche don’t have a charging network. Tesla do and you can go anywhere and not have to worry about it
While the road trip has gone very well, I'm still not entirely convinced this should be the future, and plenty of my thoughts on the topic are in the video. However, would I do this journey again, yes I would, it went well and the car performed very nicely.
You should have gotten a Chevrolet bolt I tried to tell you shmeee But you won’t listen to your better half
Can I suggest Tim your and my forefathers may of said exactly the same thing about combustion cars when only a few hundred were on the roads. With little or no infrastructure to support them.
And the alternative?
Synthetic fuels are much better because it keeps all the benefits of combustion and is more environmentally friendly than an electric car. The only downside is price, but considering how heavily taxed fossil fuels are in Europe, the difference in price shouldn’t be too big.
Need to sell that and wait until you can get a Rimac someday!
UK looks like a total mess for EV charging. You had more charging problems compared to my whole 2 years in Norway o.0
It’s a shambles if you don’t have a Tesla
Currently the UK is looking a bit of a mess for everything.
Hey don't complain about charging stations, we don't even have petrol in fossil stations. 😂
Tesla knew that mainstream manufacturers would start making better cars then theirs. So they prioritised their charging network as that alone makes it worth buying a Tesla
It’s not that bad, I’ve had an e208 and have never had any issues doing 1000mi road trip and multiple 250mi road trips, apart from 1 10min wait (was a free charger so worth it)
Towards your discussion near the 16:29 mark: one thing nobody has talked about yet (or at least I haven't noticed it being mentioned anywhere) is that if you replace the battery pack of your EV at (say) the 10-year mark, you end up with a nearly-new EV (electric motors basically lasting almost for ever). That way you could get a 60-70 year EV (the 2nd battery pack would probably last 15 years, etc.). The older EV battery pack can still be used in many other applications (people are already doing this): retrofitting to sail boats, as backup power pack for homes (coupled with inverters) etc.
I like how in title said “problems" but Shmee still looks happy in the thumbnail
Haha that's how I roll!
@@Shmee150 I hope you meet Chris and i
@Shmee150 is just a great guy....sincerely
@@Shmee150 trade it in for a Plaid, get some money back so it's like he had the taycsn for free 😄
I would smile with that car too ,no matter what
Your mention of the charger cable potentially laying on the paint/wrap, made me realize I have a solution for that problem. There are these 'woolen' fleece & velcro pads made for seat-belt shoulder straps to keep them from, in my case, rubbing on a pacemaker, or your neck, etc. These would be ideal for padding the cable if it must make contact with the bodywork.
I can't get over how beautiful this car has turned out. All the modifications have made it into something quite extraordinary.
I agree Oliver!
This is one of the most beautiful (modern) cars I actually know. A real dream car. Especially in this very spec
I saw a 718 GT4 with Aurum wheels, yellow calipers, and gold wing supports. It looks like a paint swap of Tim's Taycan and GT4.
All the modifications? Like different wheels and a wrap? You’re easily impressed….
@@Jimmythefish577 jeez. Who dropped your ice cream?
Being of a certain age, your closing comments about the demise of engineering triumphs reminded me of the demise of steam trains in my schooldays. Will be just see V12 engined cars in museums, brought out for special events? I won't be around to see that question answered and I am not sad about that.
Well-heeled petrolheads like Shmee will continue to tear around in supercars powered by very expensive synthetic fuels made with renewable electricity, as Porsche proposes; the same fuel that airplanes will need. But as Shmee admits, he drives to the Shmuseum in a quick, quiet, clean BEV before hooning around in a noisy combustion-engined car.
@@chemicalfrankie1030 that's a poor argument. All countries have some wind and solar. Most countries have burned through whatever fossil fuel assets they had, and have to go to war (economic or military) to ensure fossil fuel imports.
Can’t believe a year has passed so quickly with the electric car
Does look nice with the wrap
And wheel colour
Love how the guy charging his Mini next to Tim, on his second stop, is really checking the Taycan out and walks around it.
A different guy unplugs that Mini. There's a really good chance he was just a guy waiting to talk to Shmee about what owning one is like, because he's tempted o make the switch. It's a very common experience for electric motorists currently.
Been loving the real life implications of the collection. The EV everyday issues, along with the running cost/ spec price videos from the schmuseum have been really interesting. Brings us back to the reality that such an endeavor, though being a dream still has the baggage that comes along with it. "With great power comes great responsibility":)
Just buy a model 3 long range, the sport EVs aren't here yet
Just be aware that life is much easier if you choose a Tesla
As I debate whether to get an ev, I really appreciate hearing about your real life experiences and your insight. Thank you.
His experience is his and not yours. Also, he's talking about the Taycan owning experience, that's not all EV's. Lots more charging options for Tesla's and they charge quickly everywhere without issues. I've had mine for 3-years now and love the experience. For a daily driver, it's my favorite car at any price.
This is incredible consumer advice. Compared to 20 min tire sledding reviews, an owner who provides in depth use with pros and cons is immensely valuable. You raise an important point on production , carbon, and how much it takes to offset the production carbon of an electric car AND when electric car batteries become inefficient.
Except it is completely incorrect. Battery range decreases over the use. But tesla are expected to achieve 1000,000 miles.
He forgot to mention the energy needed to extract and transport fuel. It's like 7 barrels of oil to extract one and getting worse.
I agree in part but he really does need to try these in a Tesla. While I am not a great fan of the cars (despite having two of them) the infrastructure they have built is a work of art. Also, the carbon footprint of getting a liter of fuel to your pump is never included in the carbon offset calculations and it is enormous when you think of the ships, the tanker trucks, the refineries, the storage, the vehicles and manufacturing required to build and maintain all these etc etc. Whereas, if you have renewable energy as is available in some countries the EV has zero carbon impact after it is built.
@@g0balot I don't entirely agree with your comment either about the zero carbon impact.
A lot of electricity is still produced using fossil fuels. The manufacturing process for solar cells also has a carbon footprint as does the process for the manufacture, transport and installation of wind turbines.
The elephant in the room with EYs is the environmental impact of extracting lithium for the batteries, that is often overlooked.
@@JustLiveInPeace2 Actually I was thinking of places like Norway which is mostly hydro electric power. Also you have to remember that e.g. wind turbines are also producing electricity for everyday use which otherwise would be made up with coal or gas.
I am not an EV advocate for environmental reasons although I see that as an extra benefit but I think we need to be honest. Mining lithium does have an impact but batteries are being recycled and EV's can contribute to a wider plan to get energy emissions down whereas petrol cars can not.
As I said, the carbon costs of manufacturing a car, even an electric car, are dwarfed but the footprint of getting a liter of petrol out of a pump.
But hey, I am not a radical about this, I am just a guy who bought his first EV so he could use the bus lanes on the way to work and now finds the driving experience so much better and a trip to a petrol station as feeling like a dirty, smelly throwback to a bygone age. I don't begrudge anyone who has a love for petrol cars though but I would encourage daily drivers to try an EV for a while.
It may be worth noting that electric car batteries have a second life as grid storage which will allow us to be more - not completely - independent on renewable energy sources. The water cooled batteries in the latest electric cars are proving to be reliable for over a 100,000 miles whilst retaining more than 80% of their capacity. The average car is scrapped after 14 years in the UK with the majority scrapped by 20 years so an electric car needs to be able to easily last 20 years to keep the average age of cars on our roads up. But yes, driving a slightly more environmentally green car in the UK does little to the overall problem, but it does lead the way for others to follow.
Sure, they can last even longer than ICE cars, but if after 8 years the battery is only 80% or so, that is a problem. It is the most expensive component. We'll better recycle them and reuse the lithium, because we'll have great problems with aquiring that when each year will be made a few dozen millions of EVs (and we have to also add trucks, buses, excavators, bulldozers (I guess we'll have electric ones, too), bikes and all sorts of other machines + the electronics).
the only problem with electric car that nobody talk about is that....
it doesn't exist a natural source of electric energy, electric energy is just a vector of other forms of natural energy.
So turning to electric cars without the provider of electricity turning to more clean sources of energy production change absolutely nothing.
@@monkeymindfrance8356 so wind etc?
There are 1,5 billion vehicles on this planet. 65% are not in rich "western societies". If you believe that this obscure expensive technology could be implemented in Kyrgistan,Bulgaria and Burkina Fasso you're delusional.
Right now we are subsidizing rich home owners at the expence of working class slowly being priced out of essential mobility.
If you are referring to total or all encompassing C02 footprint, both the media and especially politicians focus on the usage stage and casually ignore the first production phase as well as the last recycling phase. Ignorance is bliss!
Really enjoyed that chat and cruise around London,, keeping it so real and enjoyable
I really liked this content but have we forgotten that petrol cars become less efficient over time and in 8 years your taycan will still do far more miles per charge than my current mg zs and would be worth a lot to me. A Porsche with a degraded totally usable battery has value and will continue do mileage suitable for its user. Not knowing the content of JM on cars discussion, you did not mention burning of fuel and replacing oil over decades of ice usages just emissions of manufacturer. Oil is shipped refined then transported but not calculated even as you dodge the congestion charge because you have no tailpipe emissions. Great points raised thought out and strangely this might actually make petrolheads consider an EV as a second car or daily driver if they have no intention of using the UK network right now.
My 19 year old, 450,000 mile diesel van still does within 5% the mpg it did when it was new.
Last year I hired an EV van to see if I could live with one.... Glad I didnt buy one.
Once the van was loaded for a days work, the range plumeted from an almost acceptable 180 miles to just 50 miles!
I often had to do 2 charges per day and the morning charge which could have been the over night one but, No charge point at home!
Add the charge time to the drive time to the charge point, then to another charge point because most seem to be broken/not working..
Then theres the charging wait.
The wait if someone is already there.
All that wait time, drive time and charging time is a killer for my business, to the point.. I cannot use an EV for my business.
The taycan is sadly having battery issues rn
your realistic and critical thoughts on EVs are refreshing and just what we need. Keep it up!
Your thoughts on this electric car are very analytical, very good indeed! One mustn´t forget the anxiety aspects of driving such a car at a long distance. Thanks from Portugal/UK.
Tim, You may have thought you were "waffling on" in the segment "Do Electric Cars Work" however, I felt it was the best part of your video and I would say, and encourage you, to become more of a voice in the matter. Personally I believe the carbon output to produce and maintain and the fact that EV's do not have nearly the life as Internal Combustion engines is a waste. Your comments --- and I've heard you say this before --- that better can be done with improving IC cars and the fuels to inject less emissions is the way to go. Thank you.
This guy is the last person who should comment on sustainability. His lifestyle is extremely unsustainable and his only real defence of it is that he's a "petrol head"
There are 2014 Tesla’s for sale with over 300,000 miles…
@@italianstallion701 That says nothing about those vehicles' conditions though. Maybe they are worn out? Tesla also exchanged all motors (for allegedly improved constructions) on older models I think twice because it turned out they weren't durable.
@@armorgeddon Tesla last hundreds of thousands of miles
@@chrisness Oh hi Elon!
They never take the cost of the environmental impact in getting the oil out of the ground, to a refinery, refine it, then to the station for use with a pump .... they only assume the petrol magically got there on it's own.
So yes a Polestar 2 (as the example you gave) uses 10 more ton's of CO2 to make ... but it doesn't take 20,000 miles to equalise ... is in the mid thousands .... but C02 isn't the ONLY environmental impact to consider. There are pro's and cons on both ends ... take your kids to school in an EV and you are not exposing other kids to the crap that comes out of an ICE vehicle.
yes, then sadly excuses all cars due to another problem...
If we continue to invest in renewable energy then it will equal out very quickly
@@petertwiby7346 yes but the objective is to reach zero pollution, not equal amounts to ICE cars, and sadly, we are very far from that
@@gucciero I thought the aim was to be carbon natural? We're never going to reach zero pollution, it's impossible for a modern world
@@petertwiby7346 yes but even being carbon neutral is kind of impossible, and i think it won't change in the near future, even with newer technologies
the US car is most lickly military, and my guess they are probably stationed in rammstein or geilenkirchen Germany (maybe a base in belgium i don't know about?)
Shmee, To get a better idea how smooth and anxiety-free EV ownership can be, you should try buying a Model S Plaid and giving it a go with the Tesla supercharger network. 😀
It doesn't make sense to mandate full EV at this point. Battery shortages just to start. PHEVs seem like a better solution for quite a while.
Aikido Toyoda has been saying this but tree huggers wail every time anyone raises concerns even though toyota took it upon itself to develop better technologies. Does anyone know what 40m evs a year will look like?
"It doesn't make sense to mandate full EV at this point." But it's not mandated at this point is it?
@@2017NationalChamps well you pay fines if you don't meet emissions targets. So what's the use of developing an ICE platform if you can use it for the next 10 years? You are then forced to develop something your not 100 percent sure about just to avoid fines.
@@sexpistill After 144 years of development of ICE vehicles we can try something new.
@@2017NationalChamps we tried something new with ICE cars without understanding the consequences and we got climate change. Electric cars excite me but scare me at the same time because I don't believe anyone knows what 40m evs a year will mean for us. Politicians are just pushing these regulations just to please voters and car companies only care about profits no matter what they say. For example EU governments force auto makers to fit OPF filters for EU cars but don't care about cars sold in other continents? Does that sound like they care about global omissions or just their green European cities?
Acctually, second lifetime battery usage in for example homes is already possible. Also batteries can be recycled for 90%.
U also dont have to drive hundrets of km. to offset your CO2 Bagpack:
"The manufacturing process of a Model 3 currently results in slightly
higher GHG emissions than an equivalent combustion engine vehicle.
However, based on the global weighted average grid mix, a Model 3
has lower lifetime emissions than an equivalent ICE after driving
5,340 miles."
and no i am not a tesla fanboy ;)
i just chose the most advanced and efficient car on the market for my usage.
I think it’s hilarious how you always say that you will drive the car until it’s nearly empty and then charge in order to optimize the charging curve and in the next clip you say “I plugged in at 36% and now I’m at 46%” 😂 I would consider
I usually take mine down to 10% - 15% on trips, daft to do otherwise
I target 5% in summer and 10% in winter.
I don't like to wait.
Usually have more charge than I need when returning from my rest break.
7-8 year old Tesla’s still have plenty of value and don’t lose as much range as originally predicted
Well none commenting on the situation and outlook of electric driving. Slippery slope, and probably not to everybody’s liking, but resonates with me (in the process of getting my first electric car to join 4 combustion engine cars)
Oh, well as a longtime car enthusiast and 2 year owner of a Model 3 Tesla, let me tell you it’s by far the finest vehicle I’ve ever owned. And speaking as a Mechanical Engineer who’s picky and has designed for major car manufacturers....there’s nothing of any consequence that I would change. In my personal opinion, it’s nuts to buy anything other than a Model 3 or Y today...for a whole host of reasons.
@@johncahill3644 Cost maybe?
Engineering Explained showed the math on the carbon emissions of electric vs gas and it actually doesn't take long to offset the carbon emissions. It happens pretty quickly.
Petrol cars dont emit CARBON, they emit almost no CO and some CO2.
CO2 is NOT polution, its a beneficial gas which makes our crops grow.
@@fivish water is beneficial and makes our crops grow too. How much corn can you grow under water? 😂 The problem isn't what it is, the problem is we have a little too much of it and it's having an adverse effect that we need to address
@@fivish Some CO2 is not a problem, but a lot of CO2 is a problem. Look at planet Venus. Despite being further from the Sun compared to Mercury, the surface temperature of Venus is a lot higher. Why? Because of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Also after a certain point, CO2 is even bad for plant life.
It's been really interesting watching you trip across Europe with the Taycan especially the relative ease of charging, for me over here it's only worth doing if I used an electric for daily from home & install my own charger, but the cost is massive, Rj in Oz
Massive? I paid €450 for mine and installed it myself in a day.
i have a 2015 Tesla model S with 180,000 kms on the clock, it still has 95% of its original range, so I'm not too sure i'll have to scrap it next year as you suggest, it also has a 8 year guarantee on battery and drivetrain...... It still has a value of about 35000 to 40000 euros in France so I cannot see it being `worthless`next year....
I often do trips of 1000kms eg Geneva to London, The 5% lost range, is not a problem as it is getting faster at doing the trip as I can charge at a faster part of the charging curve with better charging availability, The car has free charging, needs much less servicing, and battery costs are reducing between 10 and 20% a year, so when I eventually do need a new battery it will be much cheaper. Only problem is that the cars build quality is average to say the least, and repair costs are very high.
with your environmental analysis you forgot to add on the cost of making the fuel which is almost as much a the wasted energy of a thermic car
I like how the ionity chargers have an led light on the front based on the level of charge. Dunno if anyone has noticed that
I love how you can articulate thought and deliver it in such a comprehensive manner, and the fact that I also feel the same way about cars just solidifies my perceptions about the politiking that surrounds EV and Climate Change. Thank you for being such an interesting person that, not only entertains thoroughly, but also educates quite well. 🙌
18:36 very briefly you hit the nail on the head! “I think there’s probably more to it”
If you want to reduce your carbon footprint, trade your gasser for an EV unless you live in coal-powered Poland. Or don't own a 2-ton car at all.
We need to rapidly end the burning of fossil fuels, and electrifying land transportation is one of the easier problems to solve.
Nice to hear the thoughts from someone indifferent about EVs, most reviews are very pro EV and refuse to see problems or run EV channels so obviously won’t criticise them. Balance is good.
UK seems totally insane with a horrible neglected Charging Network. That is just pathetic. Tim nailed that demanding massive improvement.
But he got one fact massively wrong. 8 Year life span is a erroneous false rumour. Rav4 EV from 1990s averaged about 17 years. Modern BEVs are not much better but can do crazy high mileage easily over 300,000 miles. If he wants to argue about emissions and resource consumption please use the accurate lifespan numbers.
The reason most reviews are very pro EV is because they're awesome, underappreciated, and a lot of the common criticisms are misplaced (and frankly often sourced from OEMs, probably trying to delay EV uptake so they can stay afloat with many of their assets tied to ICE manufacturing). The impracticality of an EV in specific use-cases is definitely a noteworthy compromise for some, and there's a few other compromises which should be no secret and need to be addressed. But just because he's not pro-EVs does not make him any less biased than anyone else.
@@Muskar2 people buy EVs because they suit their lifestyle. Sadly they can’t seem to grasp that other people have different lifestyles or driving requirements.
@@paulsm77 So are you seriously hypothesizing EV owners are more prone to tunnel vision?
@@Muskar2 i think there are two, equally aweful, forces at work. 1) Estatablished car manufacturers protecting their current investments in ICE
2) Governments pushing and pushing EVs, irrespective of practicality, offering huge tax benefits to EV drivers. Both have their agendas. None can be trusted, best would be to let consumers decide. Realize that once the majority is driving electric, all tax benefits will disappear.
Currently we ship our old used cars to developing countries, thus creating a secondhand value. How will this workout for EVs? EVs in Eritrea? Really?
Regarding your lifecycle comment, a) the carbon emissions are based on an assumption that the energy used to make the car is carbon-based which isn’t necessarily true (even steel is now being smelted using electricity not coal), and b) the mechanics of these cars is far simpler than combustion cars so they last longer. Teslas can run happily for 300k miles or so. I admit I’m biased because of my Green Part affiliation but that doesn’t mean I am wrong. It would be be good to have a debate one day perhaps so we can challenge each other respectfully with facts and see whether we can arrive at a consensus. For me I’m afraid I think we have to clamp down on the overall carbon supply chain which is why I support EVs.
Do electric cars work segment was the most aware of what's really going on in the world point I've heard from a automotive youtuber. Bravo for speaking it Shmee!
He got one part factually wrong. 8 Years life span is massively wrong. Rav4 EV from 1990s averaged around 17 years. Modern BEV batteries do not have better Life Span but way better mileage easily over 300,000 miles. Soo if you do a resource consumption and emission comparison you have to use the accurate life span figures.
Interesting video Tim. So annoying that this side of the channel has charger reliability issues. Agree with you totally in terms of how much improvement is needed.
Are the chargers in the UK unreliable? Wrong adjective.
Done two major road trips in the past few months in EVs. First from Norway to Italy in a Polestar 2, then from Oslo to Munich in my Audi E-Tron GT. Mostly without any issues, but where I see you have issues I've also had issues and that is with ABB chargers. Those are so faulty and have many issues regardless of country!
💞
203 cruise liners operated in Europe in 2017. These emitted 62 kilo tons of sulphur oxides. Europe’s 260 million cars produced 3.2 kilo tons in the same period. Clearly motorists are an easy target and seen as the bad people, but going on holidays in pointless floating shopping centres is ok.
These sorts of comments are so frustrating, you understand car emissions also have a significant impact on air quality in urban areas increasing respiratory illnesses in its populations. Our entire mindset of pollution needs to change, it’s not a case of only changing some aspects
With the limited amount of geography available in certain countries it will be difficult to implement charging infrastructure successfully. The main concern is the amount of petrol still available in the earth and how it is extracted, not just carbon emissions. Compare the finite resource of petrol to the 'unlimited reserve' of electricity that is captured through sustainable methods and you will find that this is the main reason for the push for EV's. The remaining petrol should be and will be used for more important means and endeavors of the world.
You would think there would be the facility to charge while on the channel tunnel train
I completely agree about the furthering of study with engine cleanliness and efficiency alongside cleaner fuels like synthetic fuels would be wonderful
A clean synthetic fuel is going to be the way for the next few decades, I think. All these countries talking about mandating EV's act like they haven't taken a look around at the nearly 100 year old power grids with wires strung up through trees...
@@opmike343 exactly! Don't get me wrong EV's can be cool but Synthetic fuels are a great way to deal with the problem. Especially for cargo ships and planes, they are the big polluters
@@opmike343 The power grid is less carbon intensive than burning fossil fuel, and since wind and solar are The cheapest new generation, it will only get cleaner. If electric utilities can't improve it to meet increasing demand for their product required by the electrification of land transportation, heating, industrial processes, etc. then they're incompetent or badly regulated.
Synthetic green fuels will be great for petrolheads like Shmee to continue driving around in their farting and rumbling machines, but they will unavoidably be punishingly expensive because they will require far more of the renewable electricity (that you think is so rickety) than just putting it straight into a battery.
I really like your take
on EVs and I think Youre absoutely right....I really hope combustion engine cars never stop and people understand the whole carbon neutral thing
EXCELLENT very balanced review - thank you. It will be a long time before I ever buy an EV ! Even now, I feel I’ll regret doing so, due to short range and time wastage- never to be recovered.
Thanks for your very valuable post.
Newer ICE are so clean and economical, I do not like being “ forced “ to change.
Other people don't like breathing in the disgusting exhaust you're dumping in their faces but they're "forced" to do so. If I could make you pay for the privilege, I doubt you'd consider it very economical.
Every ICE car burns through literally tons of dirty fossil fuel over its lifetime, directly contributing to global warming.
In many places it's cheaper to recharge an efficient EV than to refuel with petrol.
I’ll say it: Taycan is my favorite Shmee-mobile.
I own an ID4 and in the Republic of Ireland the experience has been pretty good in terms of charging. I've done a bit of travel around the country and there always seems to be a charger at a reasonable distance. The most common are the 22kw chargers with a few "fast chargers" of 50kw... I only know 1 or 2 mainly in VW dealers where you can get the Unity and get the real fast charge experience. But overall... even for long journeys, with the 50kw is quick enough for top ups.
Had the same discussion about EV's & emissions a while ago with a few friends. And i'm as well questioning whether it's the right move at the moment, maybe in the future as technology progresses, but i feel like the overall issue won't be resolved in the next decade. There are so many contributions towards emissions and pollution from EV's, most you have mentioned, pollution from production, increase in production (due to limited life span), waste disposal (what happens to these cars and components when they are not effective anymore), and increase in fossil fuel emissions from coal power companies (Possible the need for more "green energy"). I don't think we are in the position to make such a rapid transition at the moment.
You really should swap the Porsche for a Tesla and compare your experience. I think you'd find many of the problems already solved, especially the charging infrastructure availability, cost and reliability. Also, Engineering Explained did an in-depth comparison of a typical petrol car vs. a Tesla Model 3 and found the cross-over point for emissions at around 47k miles. It's also not true that EVs are scrap after 8 years. An 8 year old Tesla Model S with 350k kms (250k kms on the battery) only loses about 12% of charge. There is also much less to go wrong and wear out. I think you'll find they outlast the typical petrol car, which may be why they hold their value so well on the 2nd hand market.
thanks for educating him. wish everyone could read this comment and learn something.
Switch this beauty for a Tesla?!?! 😂
I’d recommend an Audi etron gt instead of taycan they are practically the same minus the battery problem and quality although a Tesla model a would be great as well they are just different cars tbh and everyone will like different things I personally just don’t like the Tesla screen but others probably would.
Really great video Mr Shmee, and very interesting debate. I remember when we purchased our first diesel car back in 2001 it was supposed to be the right thing to do, as it was more economical and therefore better for the environment, how wrong were we. The biggest problem our planet faces is OVER POPULATION, like you said, so why isn't more being done to limit population growth, this is the number one problem. This is a great debate, so let's here your comments!!!
Elon Musk said there aren't "enough people" and "civilization will crumble" if we don't have enough children.
It's not just the CO2 coming out of your car's exhaust. You must take a look at the whole supply chain. Drilling for the oil, processing the oil, transporting the fuel, damage to water and land from such extractive industries.
You just have to drive around 10000 miles in an EV to completely offset the extra CO2 needed to produce the EV. So EV is still a huge win relative to gasoline car in terms of emissions
There are some technologies developed that can use CO2 from the atmosphere to produce gasoline, making the fuel carbon neutral. The problem with it needs to be done at large scale to become economical and the tech is currently protected by patents. I would prefer to see funding and legislation going towards this rather then EVs
I tested the Taycan for a week. After the first 10 minutes of excitement in Sport Plus mode, it felt exactly like any other EV except you don’t get a sunroof and the Taycan is a boat of a car. One reason I left the UK to move back home to Germany is that the roads in the UK are atrocious and then there is the speed limit and lots of cameras! Top speed in the Taycan is 268 km/h. So, the only - and I mean only - benefit is the acceleration. Only to say, is that if you are into EVs and like Porsches, wait for the Maycan EV due out in early 2022. More power and more useful including a sunroof! 👌🏻
yes, the charging problems...
this is why people buy a Tesla over the Porsche, the supercharger network is 100 times better and more reliable than all the other chargers put together...
Seriously, why don’t people get that?!
people want choice rather than boil down buying preference to basically the size of the gas tank and whether there is a gas station in range.
This is the most biased comment I’ve seen in a while. Anyone who buys a Tesla has no character and is basic
@@HelixIsDumb If buying the most advanced cars on the market is basic to you then sure
@@ThePredatherion just basic it’s one of the most advanced cars on the market doesnt mean it has character :/. Tesla’s are simply (and in quite poor quality) built to get from point a to b. They don’t have a driving experience. They have no emotion you can’t talk to it like you can with most. other cars in that price range and above. It’s just bland, characterless and basic
I wonder what would be cheaper for me: Buy a 2nd hand Tesla for 35k EURO, or a 2nd hand Mercedes C63 for 20k EURO, when it comes to doing road trips in Europe. Service and taxes would definitely be more expensive for the C63, but then again the purchase price of the Tesla is higher. What do you guys think?
buy a C220 Diesel ;)
The construction of an EV does indeed emit more CO2 than that of a comparable ICE vehicle... at least for the time being, as it might change in the future. However, the GHG break-even between eV and ICE does not happen after "tens or even hundreds of thousands of miles", as you said but, in the case of the Tesla Model 3, after some 5'300 miles!!! (Source: Tesla Impact Report 2020, pages 11 and 12).
Also, an EV will outlast an ICE vehicle considerably, not the other way around! Batteries will now last in excess of half-a-million miles! EVs conserve their value much much better than ICE vehicles.... whose residual value is going to fall off a cliff in a very few years.
So, either your information is biased, or very dated indeed!
Thank you for the analysis. That's what I try to tell people who try to say EVs are worse for the environment. Yes, making them is more harmful, but once they're done being made, they will never emit another milligram of CO2 again.
@@snakeeyes9246 not only CO2, but also toxic emissions like NOx or micro-particulates. Those are never taken into account and are killing people. EVs obviously emit none of those…
Exactly!
@@francoisbadoux625 yes, that is true too. People just want an excuse to keep ICE vehicles on the road. I am all in for the EV future. The only thing holding me back is money. I guess it's time to start investing.
@@snakeeyes9246 well… I invested in TSLA in March 2013, and then again in June and July of 2019. I could buy half a dozen Model S Plaid if I sold those shares… but won’t, not even one. Tesla still got a huge growth runway ahead! Actually, they have hardly started exercising their muscles!
It’s the design trade offs. It’s not hard to get super range with moderate performance cars. Just car adding batteries and don’t worry too much about handling. Koennigseg has the right idea for super high performance. High HP small motor, just enough batteries for 4 wheel drive but handles amazing because it’s not carrying a ton of batteries. Range and performance issues solved.
Loved the video, good job! One remark: what were the efficiency gains in the last 30 years of R&D in combustion engines? Hint: my dad’s VW Passat in the early nineties was averaging 5 liters of diesel per 100km. Gains have only been marginal in the last 30 years. Now: what were the efficiency gains in the last 5 years for EVs? This is only the beginning of serious R&D invested in EVs. It may not look so much better than ICE now, but probably will be in only a couple of years.
My 19 year old, 450,000 mile diesel van still does within 5% the mpg it did when it was new. 1x 5 min fill up gives me 600 miles with the van loaded without a worry.
Last year I hired an EV van to see if I could live with one....
Once the van was loaded for a days work, the range plumeted from an almost acceptable 180 miles to just 50 miles!
I often had to do 2 charges per day and the morning charge which could have been the over night one but, No charge point at home!
Add the charge time to the drive time to the charge point, then to another charge point because most seem to be broken/not working..
Then theres the charging wait.
The wait if someone is already there.
All that wait time, drive time and charging time is a killer for my business, to the point.. I cannot use an EV for my business. Glad I didnt buy an EV van.
Before watching the video i have to say that the Taycan looks unreasonably good in gloomy weather
Reference your talk about emissions, the petrol engine’s only issue is the fuel going into it. When POrsche goes online with their synthetic fuel this issue will disappear. Governments will have to rethink their rules on selling combustion engines.
"Certainly uncertain" I like that.
5:48 sold me on electric!! With chronic back pains I can't sit in the car for long. At the same time I hate taking breaks as, you know, I just enjoy being on the road. Breaks every couple hours for a top off might make a nice solution.
Then again, as mentioned a bit later, availability of chargers. in the US I don't think I've seen a charging station in the wild. though, at best I get about 150 miles out of town due to pain. But I'm almost certain we don't have Shell stations pushing charges.
Personally I doubt I'll ever have an EV & despise this dream of mandating all vehicles be electric in X years. personally I like the zooms, vrooms and kabooms. Also I'm not entirely sold on this being a smart, clean alternative. lithium is not good & the process of ensuring these battery packs get discarded of properly or recycled? Look at what plastic has done even with recycling... Plus they still need a power plant producing electricity for the charges. And the biggest. The lack of life of an EV & the cost to replace that engine [battery pack]. Tesla wants $24k for a battery replacement!!?? 90% of people with cars can't afford a $2,000 fix to their car let alone a bill.......
& you are absolutely right Schmee. More should be going into what can be done to make combustible engines better and cars on the market more friendly to the planet. And yes, the pollution we output from manufacturing, growth, etc are much larger polluters than the vehicles on the road. EV is a false sense of doing something for the planet. 2 cents.
You don't seem to realize that a 2-ton 35 mpg (USA gallons) car will burn through 10 TONS of gasoline over 120,000 miles, that is far filthier to mine, refine, spill than making a battery, and it all goes up in smoke to cause global warming.
The problem is burning fossil fuel, and adding a 1/2-ton recyclable battery greatly reduces the tonnage. Even on today's mix of electrical generation. Since the majority of new generation is wind and solar, because it's cheap, EVs will only get cleaner.
The crack on the windscreen makes me so nervous haha It is like that small dent on one door or a scratch on the bumper that nobody notices, but you know where it is and your eyes magnetically get attracted to it.
Not to mention it's illegal to drive with such a crack
I thought I was the only one who noticed that geesh
@@p.k.7111 is it? Wow ...🤔
@@Arqfrancisconeves If it's obscuring line of sight, like in this case, then yeap
Guess how many thousands that will cost to fix?
you covered everything I have been trying to tell people about electric vehicles! outstanding! Prime example of the old dead or dieing battery issue and net worth of the car look at older Toyota Prieus.. Battery is 5000.00 but the car it's needs to go into is only worth 2000.00. I really liked this video. You are not wrong and here in the states we have the very same issues
I like how he starts to explain how expensive it is to charge, but instead of giving a price, it’s a super obscure reference to the cost vs his V12 Ferrari fuel cost? 🤔
£64.55 to fully charge Taycan Turbo S from 0% to 100% at Ionity charging station in UK and returns 200 miles. Ferrari FF V12 costs about £120 full tank and returns around 350 miles.
@@borinvlogs Why is it so expensive? I wonder if it is less in the States
@@AncientMysteriesAndInnovations Less competitors on the market. They offer 350kW speed and charge 69p per kWh. Only few people use this network in emergency situations. If you charge it at home, it would only cost 5p per kWhor similar rate depending on provider. Mine is Octopus and they offer 7p kWh. Very cheap.
Most owners charge at home on cheap overnight rates. Which significantly reduces the annual spend on, I literally on pay these high rates at fast chargers a handful of times. Including a recent trip to southern Spain . Shmee should report on his annual savings now he can charge at the shmuseum.
I agree with almost everything Tim said. Lots of growing pains soo early in the development stage of deploying EVs.
But I object to the false rumor that the batteries are dead in over 8 years. Rav4 EV from 1990s averaged about 17 years of road worthy battery. Modern BEVs are not much better basically the same life span, but they can have way crazier mileage closer to 400,000 Miles on bigger batteries like a Taycan 4S.
If you actually compared the Service Life of both ICE & BEV, BEVs are still much cleaner and require tonnes less resources. Even on the UK Dirty Electric Grid mix, which has near zero Crude Oil fueling electric generation. It's very true BEVs require more resource to manufacture thus have worse footprint at ZERO miles. But that does not apply to vast majority of vehicles other than Collector Cars Garage Queens.
Fact is BEVs are not 100% clean but still much much cleaner and LESS RESOURCES in sheer tonnage than ICE over their service life.
Less resources? It seems we are trading in one resource for many more. Ev's need a ton of natural finite resources as well.
Nice to see you’re seconde charge was @ my home town.
I really like the content on your 2 channels! Keep up the good work.
After 14,000 miles with my first EV I wrote an article for my website. According to the Nissan app the car had saved 3,895kg of CO2 emissions. I understand Nissan base that on the average carbon emissions of our electricity supply. However, the Leaf had been charged with renewables so the CO2 saving was probably greater.
Also many EVs will be manufactured carbon neutral if they aren’t already. Look up the new battery factory being constructed in Scandinavia by Northvolt. They’ll supply most of Europe’s manufacturers with carbon neutral batteries.
This video was going so well until you pulled out the EV myth bingo card. It's about 30k miles for an EV to recover the build cost in CO2, and how many cars do you know that have less than 30k after 7 years! Also, there are plenty of EVs that are 7 or 8 years old with 50k plus miles on them, and still at 90% battery capacity, most batteries will last half a million miles without losing more than 25% capacity, and that's current technology!
The ridiculous notion that the car is worthless after 15 years was hilarious too - just because the battery pack doesn't have the same range doesn't in any way make the car worthless, the whole thing reeked of a petrol head trying to justify not wanting an EV. Crappy information, crappily researched, very disappointing.
@@JohnBaxendale he said worthless in 7 or 8 years!!! He's a bloke who never had an old car! (Out of warranty= worthless apparently 😜)
@@phileasfogg3536 Thing is the Polestar report does not account for the CO2 emissions regarding the extraction & transport of petrol.
@@phileasfogg3536 I agree it's a good thing to be doing, but for me it's amazing that in ONLY 30k / 60k miles the EV recovers the CO2, even ignoring the city centre pollution etc., yet the media stories and now Shmee put it across like it's a huge negative against EVs, always taking the highest figure - which is a large luxury vehicle and a poor energy mix - as opposed to the far more common small city car which has a much quicker pay off. I don't get it. EVs will last longer than ICE vehicles, the batteries will last longer and certainly maintain more of their "at birth" usefulness than an engine per mile, and every single mile you do in them you're winning back a CO2.
@@tbourner10 if you believe EVs recover their production carbon costs in 30,000 miles, you are living in dream land. There's so many ways they can hide the true figures, did they take account of building the new production plants and machinery? No? Thought not. Etc etc. They also offset carbon costs. The whole thing is a minefield of lies and deceit
The 3 biggest hurdles going forward are converting power grids to be sourced from renewables, infrastructure, and the management of mineral resource scarcity
I think some of your arguments are exaggerated.
Take the Tesla model 3, it has a battery guarantee that covers it for 8 years or 120,000 miles where it must still hold a 70% charge.
The battery itself can run for 300k to 500k. And it might cost £8k if you want to replace the battery itself.
It will match/exceed the ICE for longevity, but consider the additional parts that an ICE needs, the endless repairs for parts that don't exist in an EV.
Just the breaks alone, the EV uses regen and barely uses the main pads. EV don't need oil changes etc.
The savings in running and fuel costs are enough to cover a new battery if you ever needed to change. By the time it becomes unsable the whole car will need replacing anyway.
You say an ICE car runs for decades, that reminds me of trigger saying he had the same broom for a decade, it just needed 5 new handles and 6 new broom heads.
I like mechanical watches, but I pick up a quartz watch for a durable grab and go.
It's vinyl vs streaming music.
I agree on battery recycling and other enviorment issues that push the pollution elsewhere, but ICE has had 100 years to develop and EV has moved from the zero to the model S Plaid in 10 years.
If it meets your daily range needs and you can keep it charged then just buy a model 3/long range plus a weekender ICE for fun.
That charging infrastructure is just getting started, they'll be everywhere soon.
EVs have exsisted since later years of 1900s, and a battery change is definitely not 8k, not even for a Nissan Leaf. Try 16k, only then you're getting closer.
@@AP13P you're taking a leaf out of shmees biased or misinformed book.
I was clearly talking about tesla when I quoted a model 3. a quick search shows the Nissan leaf battery replacement does not cost £16k at all.
If you want to talk about when the very first cars started the its late 1800's for ICE, but ICE took off as that was the tech that could be developed at the time. ICE has had all the funding and you know it.
There were models before telsa but only tesla have made mass produced practical use models. The model 3 is the real mass Break through.
I feel bad for ICE, but its does feel like you're driving noisy old tech in ICE.
@@Jay-xr3sb it does, because I had to get rid of the 2nd gen Leaf due to that from my fleet. Want to know how much the Tesla battery change is, especially on Model 3 and S? Double that!
And ICE cars definitely did not exist in 1800s lmao
@@AP13P The first stationary gasoline engine developed by Carl Benz was a one-cylinder two-stroke unit which ran for the first time on New Year’s Eve 1879.
@@AP13P if you can buy a whole model 3 for £40k then the battery doesn't cost £32k.
I've looked it up, you're full of it.
Nice to see a satisfied customer next to the ABB chargers I service in Belgium.
You have the wrong car for a long road trip. 3 year's ago my family and I undertook a road trip from Edinburgh to Granada in Spain and back. Over 4000 miles. We used our Tesla Model S; only using the Tesla supercharger network. The trip was seamless. This is because Tesla own and service their own network. The map in the car is "live" and informs the driver of any problems , in advance.
Keeping my 2012 Honda CR-V for a while longer I guess. Thanks for being so honest about the overall experience of owning an electric vehicle.
Appreciate the thoughts, but there's a lot of information missing or incorrect. This is not the place to address it, but I would suggest doing much more homework before presenting. There are dozens of advanced battery technologies making, now, very quick progress. There are many advanced charging technologies we'll be seeing sooner than later. Battery recycle-ability will 100% improve. Doing an engine rebuild in an ICE rig will soon look ludicrous when replacement battery packs meet market-acceptable pricing. Without aggressive legislation, the industry would do nothing. History is rife with examples. One environmental problem cannot be equated with another - such as population vs. taking ICE cars off the road: they all contribute, and they all need to be addressed. What we can do, we should do. And since we all know humans have a tendency to wait too long to act, the sooner, the better. If you owned an EV in the western US - which has rapidly-maturing charging network, plenty of small companies and individuals attacking each and every new-tech hurdle already - most of what you experienced on this journey would be moot. That is what you have to look forward to, and not too long from now.
My opinion is having a hybrid tech where you have the flexibility to switch between power plants... Petrol or diesel engines can also be used as charging point with in the car and switch off engine to run on batteries... But ofcourse it will increase the weight but hey atleast better this way.. you do not compromise...
Regarding the cost, do a comparison for vast majority of owners as they charge at home, with off peak rates and etc. Road trips and the higher costs w DC chargers are such a small % of actual use.
You need to consider that the battery array hates to be fully charged.. and thats the only scenario working for night charge.
@@absolutium Huh? I charge to 90% (AKA 297 miles) once or twice a week at my house. Rarely go under even 150m range during the week. And at off peak which comes out to $3 for 330 EPA rated miles cost. About the cost of a single gallon of gas these days. Requiring an extra stops during your day, and some in middle of winter, which are never fun.
That's vast majority of annual charging needs, but maybe a could weekends where I hit one or two Superchargers.
@@m40dot I dont think you undertand..
Have you noticed when buying a cellphone or a laptop battery comes precharged at around 60%?
@@absolutium Yeah, and then the rest of it's life it's charges to 100%, or near it, and often used to
@@m40dot case in point.. you have two choices.. either charge for longevity or charge for long distance.. night charging allows for one.
Best Shmee video ever? Thank you for your honest user assessment of the electric car situation. Electric cars are cool, but they are not the end-all be-all solution to our problems.
Finally someone mentioning the real problems with EVs and thats their long therm usefullnes in terms off battery loosing capacity and making cars useless. And ofcourse the carbon footprint during their production is huge compared to how many kilometres you have to drive to compensate it. So its not so eco friendly compared to convention cars as they rry to convince us. Great vid and thanks for sharing your opinions.
Thank you so much Tim, that opinion bit was gold and needs to be shared around. I wish more people with your following would talk so honestly about their opinion on the subject.
Probably Great having an EV these days with Brexit and skyrocketing fuel prices in the UK😉 Come to Norway, we have ALOT of fuel and electricity🤩
It's definitely a solution to the problem
@@Shmee150 it sure is. After driving the Taycan for 1,5 yrs now, I see of the benefits with an EV is actually the possibility to “fuel up” almost wherever you are. There’s always an outlet even in the most remote settlements. This summer I was on holiday on the outer skirts of the Oofoten Islands and the nearest petrol pump was half an hour driving away. The nearest socket was on the wall of our holiday house. 10A/230v is enough for 15-20% on the Taycan’s battery per day.
over 18 kroner for bensin ja, hjelper ikke å ha tonnevis av bensin når prisene er så høye som de er nå
@@huso7796 nja, vi har iallefall på pumpene. 20,47NOK for V-Power98 som lekebilen går på…
Much as I love all high end hydrocarbon fuelled cars, I think we need to 'push' a new era of vehicle. The electric motor is supremely elegant in comparison to a combustion engine and will soon deliver a far superior environmental and cost of ownership value proposition. Change always requires resistance but EVs have come a very long way in a very short time. Who knows what electrical power source will prevail but I do hope we can kick our addiction to hydrocarbons.
Unless battery capacities magically double over the next few years, it's going to be very difficult to convince even a person who drives around the city to get one of these
If there's one thing that is not an issue with evs, it's driving around the city. It's driving from one city to the next and onwards that's a bit more awkward.
Here in CA we get a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty on the batteries and electric motive components. This also covers battery degradation. We have a 9/10 year old Chevy Volt with 85k on the clock and zero battery degradation. Clever management systems, along with pack cooling and heating limit degradation substantially. AND this is 10 year old tech.
I do think the overall green credentials of EV's need to be properly assessed though, I don't think it's really the long term answer or as green as we think. I bought mine to use the Car pool lane, but actually became a fan of driving electric.
Thank you for such a balanced and realistic viewpoint. I find EV owners online are very evangelical about EVs and usually just talk nonsense (pretending that the costs are close to zero, that a Tesla Model 3 costs less to buy than a Ford Focus, etc). We’ll all probably own EVs in the future, so it’s nice to know the truth.
@@chiron8762 What word would you use to describe such people? People who maintain EVs cost the same to buy as an equivalent ICE car, and cost next to nothing to recharge?
I have to admit I’ve never come across an owner of a regular car who claims 300mpg and a purchase cost of half what the car actually does cost. Where have you met such people?
Fantastic points about EVs and the warped logic and politics surrounding them, Tim. As a Tesla Plaid owner, I agree, and I appreciate you being brave enough to go against the narrative on this one. You're right. IMO, we should be doing a lot more investing in synthetic fuels. No need to replace millions of cars and countless infrastructure; but then that's not as shiny (and lucrative) of a political platform, is it?
Lot less graft and corruption involved in that plan, hence why it's never going to happen.
Has anyone told him about Zap Map and using that to plan journeys? Nice vlog. The car looks fantastic in that green. Looking forward to future videos. Keep up the good work.
A Better Route Planner is another one
@@MetalMike50 Yeah i had forgotten about that one.
You are exactly correct with your opinion on electric cars. Governments and automakers are moving too fast on the change, and they'll basically be worthless in 7 - 8 years when the batteries are greatly reduced. And what do we do with all the batteries???
The so called experts are now saying we have to share cars in the future to limit its production and the emissions it makes.
Theyre a bunch of pillocks.
I've only seen experts tell people to use public transport more frequently (if they are good enough)
To be honest. That makes sense.
Fun fact: Car manufactures are using car sharing business models to sell even more cars than before…
One thing I notice that likely is missed from the cost calculations for electric cars is greater expense for the real estate associated with fill ups. Filling up a tank with gas takes a couple of minutes, while filling up electric vehicles might average 20 minutes. So there is no way you can service the same number of vehicles in an hour without a lot more real estate dedicated to that service, perhaps as much as 10 times the amount of land use as well as 10 times the number of chargers vs fuel pumps.
Very true, however I fear the size of the real estate won't increase, what will increase will be the queues 😂
So we need AC charging where cars are parked.
I would rather see every roof in the UK covered with Solar panels connected to batteries,. charging small city hybrids rather than full EV’s.
Exactl, and why isn't this being done? Because it doesn't fit in with their Agenda 2030
We need to stop burning fossil fuels, not continue to burn fossil fuels online journeys.
@@skierpage And what do you think produces the majority of the electricity, used to power all these electric cars. You are right we need to reduce our dependence on oil, but we still need to generate power. Hence lots and lots of solar, wind, atomic, power is needed.
@@andyglastonbury6032 sure, and we'll get there with cheap wind and solar (and prolonging current nuke plants while hoping for next-gen liquid thorium molten small salt modular blahblah reactors). But all recent studies conclude BEVs have lower CO2 overall than combustion engines already, unless you live in coal-powered Poland.
Thats probably the best and most honest video on electric cars on RUclips. Great job Tim!
We need a better battery technology for it to be viable to me, they still don’t go far enough on a single charge and weigh too much
No, we dont need electric cars. We can have them but we dont need them.
solid state batteries is what's needed to make them viable.
To clarify I don’t want them either lol
Hi Tim, you are so correct I work for ford and obviously we have the new Mach e and new kuga mhev and phev, these cars have a battery average life of ten years which after that they have to be changed also all battery’s for vehicles are made out of lithium which has to be dug out of the ground and is still destroying this planet and lithium cannot be recycled easily yet at this moment in time and is a very volatile substance. I personally think as a mechanic that a hydrogen vehicle will be more economical and a lot better to put time and money in, As these vehicle only emit water out of the exhaust.
Any food for thought and it’s nice to here someone else speak about these issues it’s yet again rush rush rush and no big thought for the feature.
I couldn’t agree more with your thoughts on EVS and the way politicians are forcing the public and the manufacturers into it with no alternatives. Great video as always!
There are hydrogen cars but for some reasons they're pushed to the side.
@@raarmasu Because the only methods to produce hydrogen require vast amounts of electricity, EV's are way more practical, convenient and efficient.
I think that your view is very balanced with regards to the use of electric cars, I will ordinarily buy a car outright, electric vehicles seem to be best used as a lease vehicle that you use for 2-3 years before returning to the dealer to renew your deal. You are right in your comments, I do think that hybrid cars may be a better solution these would at least negates the issue of range anxiety
When will county’s start building all the new generating facilities, and how will they be fueled, that will be necessary if/when the grid supplies all the energy previously produces by each gas/Diesel vehicles?
Don’t think there is a convincing answer to these questions yet. If every car that currently exists was converted to EV with the current grid we’d have significant issues in generation. Obviously one answer is “we need fewer cars”
Electric cars are fantastic match for the variable production of renewables; you price electricity for when renewables are generating plenty and many people will recharge at those times. In general many people recharge at night when there's little electric demand and wind power is cranking.
The electrification of everything possible (heating, industry, the rest of land transportation, ...) will require vast amounts of renewable energy, fortunately it's the cheapest form of new generation so we can afford to do it and electric utilities should make money providing that electricity unless they're badly regulated.
@@JumboStiltskin it does appear Democrats are working overtime to eliminate Americans that can afford a car with their Killer injections (50,000 already killed) marketed as a “vaccine” plus the importing of illegals to replace that will be kept poor and dependent on Government handouts and never own a car, then taxing the successful into poverty!
@@skierpage Renewable energy had NO WHERE near the reliability needed to charge the number of EV’s the Democrats are trying to force on Americans, the VAST MAJORITY of the power required will have to come from OIL, NATURAL GAS, COAL or NUCLEAR! 90% of EVs will be charged at night and just a few in any given neighborhood will overload the current grids ability to supply power, lots of power 80 amps for 6 hours!
The best way to plan a distance beyond your range is to charge when your battery is not below 15-20% and only top it up to 80%. This way you wont have the slow initial charging from 0 to 10% and above 80% when charging slows down again. Like he says: a few top ups along the way (paired with a pi*s stop which we all need!:-) is the new way we will all get used to.
That 20-80% charging advice is standard fare for iPhones.
You sure it applies to a 2-tonne piece of moving steel?
Get a Tesla!! I don’t have any of these problems. Porsche don’t have a charging network. Tesla do and you can go anywhere and not have to worry about it
@@Dvw87 yeah baby!!! Xxx
100% agree with you on your opinions. Exemptions should be made - if not, a hybrid approach.
Well done Shmee. I truly appreciate your honest thoughts about the situation. Keep up the great work.