For anyone asking about the KSP version, the ModList or where to find this script: see the description The modlist is not exhaustive, i.e. I compiled it off the top of my head trying to recall which mods may be relevant to what you see in the video. There may be some things that I missed.
Yep, I as a HEAVILY Modded player, Can say the game even stock has good physics simulation, But when you add RO And RSS, Principia, You get the extremely realism.
I believe the physics in the game are relative to those of our solar system, So anyone who knows it in real life physics "should" know it in the game too... Theres a good video of one of the Mars Rover Engineers building a whole new one using KSP and nails it!
@@TetraDizzle One of them with the JPL engineer already knew how to play KSP and loved the game. My source is that I spoke with a friend of his at JPL.
Since everyone is asking for the re-entry script to be released: I still need to improve usability somewhat and will get to work on it soon, now that I have a little more time, then I'll release it on github
as a flight simmer, and ksp player, i can say that the approach and touchdown on the runway was so damn good, finally someone who knows how to land properly ( even if you landed just a little bit late from the touchdown zone, but you still did an amazing job ) most ksp players don't know how to flight properly and they just come so high and slam their planes on the runway coz they're coming too fast and landing too late
Thanks, although bear in mind that the Shuttle runways had a special set of black touchdown markings well past the regular white ones. In any case the guidance waypoints in the script are not really precise to the millimetre
there's a miscalc in either the drag or lift profiles (or both), or in the reentry energy available, since airbrakes werent deployed on the shuttle until touchdown. the recoverable error upon reentry was too much energy not too little, but excess energy was easy to burn through a more aggressive flare/stall procedure during short final or additional S-turns if their reentry calcs were way off. either which way, its an impressive physical feat - as well as being pretty damn well modeled in KSP.
It's false that the airbrakes weren't used until touchdown. Read page 5-81 of the Entry flight procedures: gandalfddi.z19.web.core.windows.net/Shuttle/JSC-11542%20-%20Flight%20Procedures%20Handbook%20Rev%20E%20200504.pdf They were first opened around Mach 10 to help with pitch trimming, lowered to 65% prior to TAEM interface, then used to actively modulate dynamic pressure when subsonic. Also this program does not do active drag modulation on a profile like the real Shuttle guidance did, if you read the commentary. Have a look at my more recent work for a closer recreation
I saw a comment about re-entry angle of attack, so I'd like to clarify a couple of things. The Shuttle used a re-entry AoA of 40° only for the first few test flights. The Operational Flight Profile (OFP) called for an initial AoA of 38°, decreasing to 28° after the most intense heating portion and a final linear pitch-down. Source: Shuttle Entry Guidance, Harpold & Graves. I used a modified version of the OFP with lower AoA to increase range as I hadn't yet developed a tool to pick the right entry interface point. The heating glow you see is not because of this choice of AoA but rather the way KSP handles heat on individual parts. The entire part glows as differential heating is not modelled. Likewise, the flame effects are present even on the tail, engines and payload bay because airflow occlusion was somehow buggy in version 1.8.1. In nay case, flame effects in KSP do not depend on temperature but airspeed and G forces.
Very nice accomplishment 👍 Concerning the AoA . The main targeted AoA was still 40 degrees even after the 4 initial test flights . ( sources are from latest version scom / flight data files/ Entry workbook and Handbook) Actually between 37 and 43 ( alpha modulation ) implemented after STS 1 AoA starts to ramp down around Mach 12 to reach 14 degrees ish at Taem interface / Mach 2.5
I stand corrected, I refer mostly to pre-STS-1 technical documents and surely they changed things around as the program evolved. In any case in KSP AoA doesn't have much bearing on heating so I feel free to use it as an additional control variable for ranging
4:38 this seems accurate on KSP's part, during the hypersonic portion of the reentry the tailfin and by extension the airbrake was entirely blanketed by the Shuttle's wake and was effectively useless. The only good way to slow down was managing descent rate
That is correct in principle, but I assure you that this is not the issue since the rudder is useless even in subsonic and low-alpha regimes. The split airbrake part simply does not work and I traced down the issue to Ferram, which doesn't re-calculate the part geometry when the opening animation is called.
Truly amazing! I guess you're using PID controllers? I've written a landing autopilot for KSP competitor, the Simplerockets 2 game. It follows a precomputed trajectory fully automatically till touchdown on runway, though this is for aeroplanes, not for a space shuttle. If we combined our programs this could be a fully automated landing from space :)
I use just a PD controller for the roll angle, hastening convergence to the optimal roll is not really necessary, copared to dampening oscillations around the optimal value. Internally kOS has its own PIDs to control steering which I didn't mess around with
Obviously, this took a lot of practice. Like I've been saying all along, there needs to be a scripted program in which you can input all the moves in order to secure a air tight landing after every mission. This just proves that you've done this a lot.
Yes and no, in that not every command that is executed is pre-programmed by me. Completely laying out the exact moves leaves zero tolerance for guidance errors and an imprecise deorbit burn. It's preferrable to have a mechanism to correct for ranging deviations in a closed-loop fashion. That's exactly what I do with roll angle modulation.
How did you properly install internal view for the shuttle I have tried so many times and my kerbal camera goes way above the cockpit like if it was sticking it’s head out, and ASET is not loading, it displays only RPM screens
The real Space Shuttle used Cones, you're right. I said Cilinders because that's what I implement in my guidance logic. It is a simplification and in no way simulates the complex TAEM guidance that was used in real life. Those cones were even actively adjutsed based on the instantaneous energy state to follow a reference profile. I figured we could do without all that.
Everyone: wow great vid you sre soooo good at the game!!! Me how has no idea whats going on: why dose he take so long? Just burn a bit to lower your orbit glue 20 parachute at the shuttle and land head first in the sea easy done XD
forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/178381-xxx-space-shuttle-in-development/page/21/ Forum post will link you to both DylanSemrau's version which must be integrated with the latest compatible KSPWheel, JSI, B9PartsSwitch and SSTUTools.dll, or SpaceODY's version which I recokn is complete
There is honestly not much to say about kOS specifically that's not covered in the manual. Of course the manual won't teach you how to solve your problem with code. I got started with kOS quickly because I already knew how to program in other languages, so I suggest you have a look at general programming tutorials
Hello, I am having some issues with the shuttle, and from what I seen, its mostly because Realism Overhaul, I need some assistance with it if it's possible, and thank you.
If you haven't already, I would suggest you write over at the forum thread forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/178381-xxx-space-shuttle-in-development/&ct=1628319853 This way more people will be in a position to help you instead of just me.
Thank you! The kOS addon is public, you may get it at github.com/giuliodondi/kOS-Ferram The script itself is not yet public and I'm not sure whether to release it as it is only designed to fly the Shuttle in RSS. The final approach profile depends on many parameters tuned to reproduce a real Shuttle landing, which do not work for spacecrafts with different L/D ratio (based on some testing I did). The reentry profiles would certainly not work in Stock KSP since the velocity scales are completely different. Maybe I can polish the script and release it in the future, in the meantime if you want to have a go at writing your own we can discuss it via PM. Cheers.
@@giuliodondi I know it's only made for RSS. I dont play stock but only RSS but I have big problems with hitting KSC and the right position so I can land perfectly like you.
RSS for the Real Solar system, plus RSSVE for the fancy graphics. For the Space Centre I use Katniss's KSC with some statics placed with Kerbal Konstructs
As it is, it's an incomprehensible mess of code, I just cannot find the time to sit down and clean it up. I hope in the next weeks I'll be less busy and able to do so. I haven't even played KSP since December.
It requires FAR and it'll never work without. FAR provides a method to calculate the aerodynamic force given arbitrary velocity vector. I'm not aware of anything of the sort in the stock aerodynamic model, although I do admit I've never looked deep into it. Without such a method it's impossible to do trajectory prediction.
I have all the DLCs but I don't think I'm using any part from them. I don't know what you mean by "builders". Every mod in the list has a purpose and is required to re-create what you see.
No, I'm sorry. There's plenty of resources and instructions for each individual mod, not to mention existing youtube tutorials. Everything is a google search away
@@luckyizzac I didn't do anything particular to get it, it was just always there as far as I can recall. Maybe it has to do with settings like shadow quality or light sources
really sad to be honest, that you write everything, instead of talking us viewers through the video, so i personally can´t really enjoy the re-entry, because, i had to stop the video, to read what you written down, that was very uncomfortable...the video was great, also that you wrote a script for the re-entry, next time, talk to us^^
For anyone asking about the KSP version, the ModList or where to find this script: see the description
The modlist is not exhaustive, i.e. I compiled it off the top of my head trying to recall which mods may be relevant to what you see in the video. There may be some things that I missed.
You should try the shuttle in Flight gear, it's fantastic, and free.
There's people who can play the game, and then there's literal astronauts in training
Yep, I as a HEAVILY Modded player, Can say the game even stock has good physics simulation, But when you add RO And RSS, Principia, You get the extremely realism.
I believe the physics in the game are relative to those of our solar system, So anyone who knows it in real life physics "should" know it in the game too... Theres a good video of one of the Mars Rover Engineers building a whole new one using KSP and nails it!
@@gabrielramos1835 hi how do I download mods?
@@ice_kubson8038 ckan
@@TetraDizzle One of them with the JPL engineer already knew how to play KSP and loved the game. My source is that I spoke with a friend of his at JPL.
Since everyone is asking for the re-entry script to be released:
I still need to improve usability somewhat and will get to work on it soon, now that I have a little more time, then I'll release it on github
Thank you very much!
The script has been released, just for the record. I published a dedicated video for it with the link to the repository
@@giuliodondi Thanks again!
U da g.o.a.t
Damn, that was as dramatic as watching the real thing. You had me holding my breath a couple of times. Fantastic work!
you deserve a lot more credit than you get
What mod
I expected the reentry auitomatic script only, but this dude literally made full-auto guidance of Buran system
Wow this is fantastic. Great work!
I've been working on a kOS script to do the same thing recently. Nowhere near finished lol.
as a flight simmer, and ksp player, i can say that the approach and touchdown on the runway was so damn good, finally someone who knows how to land properly ( even if you landed just a little bit late from the touchdown zone, but you still did an amazing job ) most ksp players don't know how to flight properly and they just come so high and slam their planes on the runway coz they're coming too fast and landing too late
Thanks, although bear in mind that the Shuttle runways had a special set of black touchdown markings well past the regular white ones.
In any case the guidance waypoints in the script are not really precise to the millimetre
@@giuliodondi one question, are you italian ?
@@xalbertek9516 Yes
@@giuliodondi infatti mi sembrava strano il tuo nome ahaha
He landed in the touchdown zone though? Touchdown zone: first bar markings up to the last one. He didn't land late
there's a miscalc in either the drag or lift profiles (or both), or in the reentry energy available, since airbrakes werent deployed on the shuttle until touchdown. the recoverable error upon reentry was too much energy not too little, but excess energy was easy to burn through a more aggressive flare/stall procedure during short final or additional S-turns if their reentry calcs were way off.
either which way, its an impressive physical feat - as well as being pretty damn well modeled in KSP.
It's false that the airbrakes weren't used until touchdown. Read page 5-81 of the Entry flight procedures: gandalfddi.z19.web.core.windows.net/Shuttle/JSC-11542%20-%20Flight%20Procedures%20Handbook%20Rev%20E%20200504.pdf
They were first opened around Mach 10 to help with pitch trimming, lowered to 65% prior to TAEM interface, then used to actively modulate dynamic pressure when subsonic.
Also this program does not do active drag modulation on a profile like the real Shuttle guidance did, if you read the commentary. Have a look at my more recent work for a closer recreation
Molto bravo, molto bello. Good stuff. Wonderful explanation of what is going on.
Mate, that was epic! Thank you. New subscriber
Excellent video on the flying brick! :)
DUDE this is epic, I've been looking for something like this for ages
I saw a comment about re-entry angle of attack, so I'd like to clarify a couple of things.
The Shuttle used a re-entry AoA of 40° only for the first few test flights. The Operational Flight Profile (OFP) called for an initial AoA of 38°, decreasing to 28° after the most intense heating portion and a final linear pitch-down. Source: Shuttle Entry Guidance, Harpold & Graves.
I used a modified version of the OFP with lower AoA to increase range as I hadn't yet developed a tool to pick the right entry interface point.
The heating glow you see is not because of this choice of AoA but rather the way KSP handles heat on individual parts. The entire part glows as differential heating is not modelled. Likewise, the flame effects are present even on the tail, engines and payload bay because airflow occlusion was somehow buggy in version 1.8.1. In nay case, flame effects in KSP do not depend on temperature but airspeed and G forces.
Very nice accomplishment 👍
Concerning the AoA . The main targeted AoA was still 40 degrees even after the 4 initial test flights . ( sources are from latest version scom / flight data files/ Entry workbook and Handbook)
Actually between 37 and 43 ( alpha modulation ) implemented after STS 1
AoA starts to ramp down around Mach 12 to reach 14 degrees ish at Taem interface / Mach 2.5
I stand corrected, I refer mostly to pre-STS-1 technical documents and surely they changed things around as the program evolved.
In any case in KSP AoA doesn't have much bearing on heating so I feel free to use it as an additional control variable for ranging
4:38 this seems accurate on KSP's part, during the hypersonic portion of the reentry the tailfin and by extension the airbrake was entirely blanketed by the Shuttle's wake and was effectively useless. The only good way to slow down was managing descent rate
That is correct in principle, but I assure you that this is not the issue since the rudder is useless even in subsonic and low-alpha regimes. The split airbrake part simply does not work and I traced down the issue to Ferram, which doesn't re-calculate the part geometry when the opening animation is called.
@@giuliodondi ah ok, nevermind then
Truly amazing! I guess you're using PID controllers? I've written a landing autopilot for KSP competitor, the Simplerockets 2 game. It follows a precomputed trajectory fully automatically till touchdown on runway, though this is for aeroplanes, not for a space shuttle. If we combined our programs this could be a fully automated landing from space :)
I use just a PD controller for the roll angle, hastening convergence to the optimal roll is not really necessary, copared to dampening oscillations around the optimal value.
Internally kOS has its own PIDs to control steering which I didn't mess around with
I'm impressed, you did an amazing job!
Obviously, this took a lot of practice. Like I've been saying all along, there needs to be a scripted program in which you can input all the moves in order to secure a air tight landing after every mission. This just proves that you've done this a lot.
Yes and no, in that not every command that is executed is pre-programmed by me.
Completely laying out the exact moves leaves zero tolerance for guidance errors and an imprecise deorbit burn. It's preferrable to have a mechanism to correct for ranging deviations in a closed-loop fashion. That's exactly what I do with roll angle modulation.
Mod users creating the most insane and beautiful script ever:
Meanwhile me playing on console with mods disabled :( :
I don't play ksp, but damm, that was impressive
It blows my mind 🫣
that was a cleeeean landing. Nice work
This is truly impressive.
this is satisfying to watch
amazing video and great explanation, thank you
The Delta V meter is having a stroke trying to figure out whether you have 76m/s or 134m/s left.
NASA should make a big space shuttle cockpit for KSP and astronauts can train
SpaceX program
Ugly ahhh and goofy ahhhhhh spaceX Elon MOSK stuff
NASA fans: 🗿🍷
You should make that script into a mod!
So it's basically a power-off 180, but way bigger, way faster, and way harder. Gotcha.
My space shuttle system dosent have working IVA and it is not stable during reentry
Nicely done!
With your KSC mod it's like playing F-Sim 😀
Awesome video, thanks for posting. Love KSP. Nowhere near your skill level.
Amazing work man
Bro your videos are awesome, can u tell me the name of the mod "Reentry and approach assistant" is it KER?
The orbiters split rudder air brake did not work most of the time because of the high angle of attack it flies at.
you can believe me that the split rudder that comes with this Shuttle mod does not work period.
@@giuliodondi you’re saying it doesn’t work even when flying horizontally at almost no angle of attack?
@@sidv4615 exactly, obviously I came to your same conclusion but that's not the issue
How did you properly install internal view for the shuttle I have tried so many times and my kerbal camera goes way above the cockpit like if it was sticking it’s head out, and ASET is not loading, it displays only RPM screens
post bug reports on GitHub please
Just wanted to say that it is not Heading Alignment Cilinders, but rather Heading Alignment Cones
The real Space Shuttle used Cones, you're right. I said Cilinders because that's what I implement in my guidance logic. It is a simplification and in no way simulates the complex TAEM guidance that was used in real life. Those cones were even actively adjutsed based on the instantaneous energy state to follow a reference profile. I figured we could do without all that.
@@giuliodondi ahh, ok, thank you
man... awesome!
I'm your 1,000 subscriber
cheers 🍻
Love from brazil 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Now THIS is Pod Racing 😃😃
How about you teach us how to install all of these mods?
ruclips.net/video/5Qx6qRKsLuQ/видео.html&ab_channel=RaizSpace
ruclips.net/video/k310jKB91qE/видео.html&ab_channel=RaizSpace
@@giuliodondi I think a video from your perspective would be faster, and much simpler.
Pull up Cougar! Pull up Cougar! PULL UP COUGAR!!!!!!!!
Awesome
Everyone: wow great vid you sre soooo good at the game!!!
Me how has no idea whats going on: why dose he take so long? Just burn a bit to lower your orbit glue 20 parachute at the shuttle and land head first in the sea easy done XD
Side speed brakes extending from the OMS pods? We wish!!!
how u got sss in ksp 1.8.1
forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/178381-xxx-space-shuttle-in-development/page/21/
Forum post will link you to both DylanSemrau's version which must be integrated with the latest compatible KSPWheel, JSI, B9PartsSwitch and SSTUTools.dll, or SpaceODY's version which I recokn is complete
nice! love it! Very good!!
Can you make a video on kos programming?
There is honestly not much to say about kOS specifically that's not covered in the manual. Of course the manual won't teach you how to solve your problem with code.
I got started with kOS quickly because I already knew how to program in other languages, so I suggest you have a look at general programming tutorials
Hello, I am having some issues with the shuttle, and from what I seen, its mostly because Realism Overhaul, I need some assistance with it if it's possible, and thank you.
If you haven't already, I would suggest you write over at the forum thread forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/178381-xxx-space-shuttle-in-development/&ct=1628319853
This way more people will be in a position to help you instead of just me.
@@giuliodondi Alr thanks.
Your fucking crazy, mad props!!
Wow, amazing! Are you gonna hsare you script and kOS add-on any soon ?
Thank you!
The kOS addon is public, you may get it at github.com/giuliodondi/kOS-Ferram
The script itself is not yet public and I'm not sure whether to release it as it is only designed to fly the Shuttle in RSS.
The final approach profile depends on many parameters tuned to reproduce a real Shuttle landing, which do not work for spacecrafts with different L/D ratio (based on some testing I did). The reentry profiles would certainly not work in Stock KSP since the velocity scales are completely different.
Maybe I can polish the script and release it in the future, in the meantime if you want to have a go at writing your own we can discuss it via PM. Cheers.
@@giuliodondi I know it's only made for RSS. I dont play stock but only RSS but I have big problems with hitting KSC and the right position so I can land perfectly like you.
@@giuliodondi Pls, share this script. Its epic!
Do please share the script; I have been looking for this very thing (shuttle reentry script for RSS-RO) for years. It would be greatly appreciated.
hey can u give the list of mods ur using there?
amazing, what mod did you use for the extended navball?
it's the Principia mod, which gives you a lot more than just a navball.
If all you want is a different navball, I suggest to look for a dedicated mod
What mod are you using for Kennedy space center and real scale earth? If you could link it, i would aprecciate it
RSS for the Real Solar system, plus RSSVE for the fancy graphics. For the Space Centre I use Katniss's KSC with some statics placed with Kerbal Konstructs
What Mods do you use for this? It looks just like the real earth! Also, the shuttle looks just like the real thing as well. How do you do it?
RSS for the real Earth plus Katniss Cape Canaveral, Space Shuttle System for the Shuttle, Realism Overhaul for real-world configs
how'd you make the shuttle so realistic. mine always look horrible
It's the Space Shuttle System mod
What music did you use
3000mm/s touchdown, holy xD
what mod did you use to make it look so real
Could you please share your reentry script please
As it is, it's an incomprehensible mess of code, I just cannot find the time to sit down and clean it up. I hope in the next weeks I'll be less busy and able to do so.
I haven't even played KSP since December.
@@giuliodondi ok thanks
@@giuliodondi hi, this is a treasure man. pls share it as it is, or if you need help, i will help you. but pls release it.
Good video
you forgot to do the explosion
Could this work in stock aerodynamics, or is FAR needed?
It requires FAR and it'll never work without.
FAR provides a method to calculate the aerodynamic force given arbitrary velocity vector. I'm not aware of anything of the sort in the stock aerodynamic model, although I do admit I've never looked deep into it.
Without such a method it's impossible to do trajectory prediction.
i thought you were gonna stall XD
how did you get your atmosphere to look like that? i got all the mods but the stars still show up
To dim the skybox you need Distant Object Enhancement plus possibly a reshading/postfx mod
so the mod for the releastic earth and builders are on the mod list? also do you use any dlc's?
I have all the DLCs but I don't think I'm using any part from them.
I don't know what you mean by "builders". Every mod in the list has a purpose and is required to re-create what you see.
@@giuliodondi oof typo i ment buildings
Do you have a tutorial for how to download those mods?
No, I'm sorry. There's plenty of resources and instructions for each individual mod, not to mention existing youtube tutorials.
Everything is a google search away
@@giuliodondi can you tell me how you got the iva to get affected by the light outside???
@@luckyizzac I didn't do anything particular to get it, it was just always there as far as I can recall.
Maybe it has to do with settings like shadow quality or light sources
What is the mod for the space shuttle and cockpit?
DECQ Space Shuttle System with RO configs forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/178381-xxx-space-shuttle-in-development/
Search for how to land the shuttle from space.
What mods are you using?
What navball texture is that?
Principia
What mod
rss, ro
Pollars are down
we're not playing the same game....
sent a friend request over discord :)
Wait is this ksp?
yep, with mods:D Real solarsystem and realism overhaul and some others
GAME NAME
Kerbal Space Program, but with fuckton of gigabytes of mods
Air glo check
This isn’t supposed to be real right?
Game Name
read the title wtf dude. btw this is with mods
Bro se sei italiano mi iscrivo
Come vuoi :)
Weee
Columbia
plane
ANIMATION
The Space Shuttle is "She"??!?!?
Ships and naval vessels are treated as feminine in English by tradition, the same applies to spacecrafts
@@giuliodondi Thanks a lot! I'm not native speaker. And I was confused for a moment :)
Btw the video is great!
Lo weak scan
Do you have Discord account?
Yes, my uname is Dolin#4214
Your unnecessary comments and crap all over the screen need to be removed.
How is he supposed to tell the audience what's happening? Also he needs this stuff to program his scripts. Please don't be rude and disrespectful.
really sad to be honest, that you write everything, instead of talking us viewers through the video, so i personally can´t really enjoy the re-entry, because, i had to stop the video, to read what you written down, that was very uncomfortable...the video was great, also that you wrote a script for the re-entry, next time, talk to us^^