@@mrmusiclover87 Correct. However, that does not mean that the allegations themselves would, during the trial, not have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be false. It is in that case that the false-accuser should be punished.
@@louloubrow2171 First of all, no, it's technically not, as "innocent" and "not guilty" do not mean the same thing in a court of law. Secondly, my point is that whether he is found guilty or not, doesn't mean the allegations themselves are false. Remember the oj Simpson trial?
In a case of he said she said it's hard to "prove" a victim is lying. Often there just isn't enough evidence to convict. That's why "not found guilty" doesn't mean by default "innocent". Although I know nothing of this case so I'm not specifically referencing it when I say that...
there was a girl going around doing this to guys who turned her down and eventually the men counter sued for false allegations, loss of work defamation of character and won
Grace saying, "they know what the risks of being in the limelight are", is essentially the same thing as blaming a rape victim for having been dressed in revealing clothing. Disgusting!
Grace is obviously in a wrong show. Having low IQ and limited vocabulary she would be a better fit in a cable TV show about painting nails. Piers, I understand you have to show the "Other sides" opinion but at least get someone capable of having one :)
Women can say such things flippantly because they very rarely end up in such a scenario. They typically do the blame came, false rape etc. How may guys' lives have been destroyed through liars, typically from women but also men like here? They should be banged up. End of!
Purely disturbing n disgusting! I'd really like to know how much she truly believes that once such a thing happens to her! You're in the spotlight too so you are ready to be faced with false accusations! Being cancelled n losing everything right? 😒😠😠😠🤦
After enduring 6 years of being treated as guilty until proven innocent I hope he sues House Of Cards and those who cancelled him for millions! The people who made the false charges against him should be in prison. I am not saying this because I am a KS fan, but because we ALL need to live with the basic legal right of being presumed innocent until proven guilty, otherwise our entire justice system falls apart and any one of us can be wrongfully accused of anything and cancelled!
Kevin was presumed innocent ... he wasn't being kept in jail during trial. The general public had all sorts of theories but that is part of the cost of celebrity.
This is a problem for many men. Accusations equal guilty. And then to just say "well he got off with it" rather than hes innocent. Its a terrible shame.
There's A difference between proven innocent and found not guilty. In the united states anyway. It means that there is no proof but it doesn't necessarily mean a crime didn't happen. Think OJ.
this is the best comment that ive ever read. because that would be the biggest impact in our society. I find it really sad that you only have....22 likes on this one.
That's not the answer. For a basic example, imagine the amber heard case. Depp was found guilty in the UK and by doing so they would be reporting on a lawful ( even if unjust) ruling. So after the us courts deemed him innocent the former journalism would now be deemed retrospectively accusations not fact. You can't control free speech. Also every country has different laws so who's going to hold these people accountable in this situation you put forward? Media should not be censored but it should be accountable for slander or held accountable for intentional misdirection.
I agree with that. The problem is the freedom of information act. Court records are public. I really think that legal accusations against anyone should not be public unless there's a conviction or judgement upholding the allegations.
This is why Johnny Depp asked for Cameras in the court room. If he had not he would not have gotten his reputation back and his victory would have been swept under the rug.
I believe Johnny Depp decision is why the judges and jury are deciding not to just believe so called accuser. We and especially Men better thank that dude
Making false allegations should carry a criminal sentence. You can't just go around accusing ppl of heinous crimes they haven't done without consequences. In print media that is libel even on modest character questioning. These were sickening allegations
You do know his on epsteins flight log right? His a very powerful man and his been exposed multiple times. Look at epsteim he was found not guilty many times and well we know what happened there.
@@BRITAINSFINEST24 being on a flight log doesn't make you guilty. Everyone should have the right of innocent until proven guilty. Imagine if you were falsely accused of something, would you just accept it and be happy because there is subjective evidence out there?
@Jack-dg6ky We all know everyone who got on that private plane knew about or took part in the heinous crimes epstein committed. He's been exposed for it multiple times. And if you can't see how guilty he is, then you need to wake up and step into reality. Jeffery epsteim was found not guilty many times before his arrest. Was he innocent? The guy has money and is a powerful man. Of course, he's gonna get off with it. I've been falsely accused before ya point is? I still deal with the mental problems it's caused me to this day. There's no argument to make there.
I almost lost a job once because a female coworker jokingly said that I had said something inappropriate to her that a manager took seriously. Fortunately, that coworker made it clear that she was making a joke and that I had not said anything inappropriate.
I had the police interview me, my daughter and my ex wife after a disgruntled customer told them I was a p d file because I wouldn't give her a refund which she wasn't entitled to. Yes she should've been charged for lying and wasting police time
@@MonoLith2049when I was 13 me and 6 friends got accused of a gang rape. It was by a girl in my neighbourhood that I had never interacted with in my life, I didn’t even know her. It was a big thing with police trying to pressure us to admit to it. Luckily after a couple weeks she ended up admitting to making up the whole story, she said she did it because she didn’t think anybody cared about her - I still don’t understand it tho, why that was what she decided to do. Some people are seriously twisted But I’m lucky she admitted to it, if she didn’t then I could have been known as some kind of freak sex criminal False accusations are evil
It's true that that there's a difference between "not guilty" and "innoccent", but the man has beaten every legal case brought against him. You don't have to like him, but at some point you have to acknowledge that his life seems to have been taken away from him unfairly.
If you believe in the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" then by implication "not guilty" and "innocent" are one and the same, because "innocent" is the default position , until guilt is proven. If guilt is not proven then innocent remains.
@iykeharrison9161 not true. You're never found innocent only not guilty. The not guilty is usually due to lack of evidence. If you want to be found innocent you have to file a petition to the courts ince found not guilty. It's never given really. Not guilty means the prosecutions case couldn't be made
@@iykeharrison9161???? No, they're not actually the same. "Innocent" isn't one of the choices given to a jury. "Not guilty" means that the prosecution did not meet it's burden of proof to support a guilty verdict.
There's a reason- it's just not been truly exposed. He's upset the machine for some reason, it's just the machine doing what it does best- destruction of an enemy without mercy
Man, my heart breaks for Kevin Spacey, such a wonderful and talented actor. But he is so supreme I do hope we can see more of him, we need good art and he is a master of his!
Cosby show is ugly as the guy himself. Kevin Spacey as an actor is phenomenal and on all the sexual allegations on Spacey I knew from the start most were from the bad reading of all these people Spacey might have flirted with or approached and those gay dudes thought it was grabbing crotch or what not. It's the same when u call a women and touch her shoulder she alleges you have harassed her like wtf?
Douglas Murray is so well-spoken and puts his arguments forward in such a reasoned way, he makes that screechy female look even more ridulous, speaking of being in the public eye. These ppl who make up stories need to prosecuted. What a waste of court time, money and resources. This very thing happened to a hugely popular media personality in Canada. At the height of "Me Too", two women conspired against him. Despite being found "not guilty" and the women proven as liars, his career was never revived. Those women needed to be prosecuted for perjury.
Douglas is absolutely right, as usual. I’m in the US and I never knew until this broadcast that Kevin Spacey was exonerated in the US. What I remember vividly is the accusation and the rewriting of house of cards to write him out of it. It was a terrible shame, because it was a fascinating and unusual program. Very well written and unfortunately, Kevin Spacey didn’t help his cause by immediately outing himself as gay is so that with a real crime. He should not have done that. He felt that his viewers would be more upset that he was gay, and they were with him grooming a younger man. This is been several years back now. So the time in between the revelation and his exoneration here in the US was dramatic. Perhaps Spacey should have had his publicist call in favors to have a press gaggle at the court once he was exonerated, as shown here this week in the UK. I’m afraid I have to agree that is fall from Grace is too far gone, just like Phil Schofield. The greater sin is the grooming, and both gay men thought so too.
This problem is easily solved. "Guilty and the accused is punished. "Not proven" and the case is dismissed. "Innocent" and the accuser is punished for bearing false witness. Can it really be that difficult.
The accusation of women against men would drop like an asteroid from the sky, and women would think twice before ruining innocent men’s lives with endless false allegations.
@@HolyRainbowism One woman accused a footballer she was dating of rape. The charges were dropped, she reunited with him. And now has a baby by him. Bizarre!
My brother got assault charges brought against him for restraining a woman by the wrists while she was punching him .. she called the cops and he didnt . . He beat the charges after a yr of not being able to see his kid. But no repercussions for her false claim.. he got called a woman basher and it was all very humiliating for him. I dont think hes been the same since.
I find the ease with which people attack others on social media really unpleasant. When I speak out against this, I too am attacked. There are a lot of sad people who seem to enjoy being poisonous.
Incredible, I had no idea the great Kevin Spacey had been exonerated! I am so happy to hear he has been proven innocent time and again. I do hope he then does something about suing those who alleged those awful things about him. People need to have consequences (both, personal and economic) for their false accusations.
They arent lying.....I was on set with Spacey im Sydney Australia on the set of Superman returns and he is GUILTY;;;;;;;I guarantee you. He is a predator
I’m not famous or wealthy but I know what it’s like to have people want to bring you down so badly that they will do anything. Some humans are disgusting and pathetic creatures and they need to face justice for making false allegations.
Some joke !? Did any of You comenting here ever been a victim of a narcistic predator ? Mabe try it … See this so many times people suporting and admire narcistic predators
me too, didn't find out until stumbling across this video by complete accident. crazy how news about him being accused was everything then complete silence when he was acquitted.
I'm glad the truth has come out. Kevin Spacey is an actor I've admired since the 80's, and you have to search very hard to find a villain as sinister as Jonathan Doe in Se7en. I'm real pleased for him.
Really pleased for Kevin. The CPS should now be thoroughly punished for pursuing a case with zero merit. We need more than "lessons learnt" or "resignations". We need a publically visible prosecution of those who brought this case and those who made these false accusations. Each one should serve the same prison sentence Kevin would have faced. Austentatious Horror is now my new favourite phrase.
I’m in a movie with Kevin in 2024 and knew this was nothing more than Celebrity Extortion. He’ll be back, in fact on March 22, 2024 in Peter Five Eight. I’m proud to be in this movie with him. Jack Trout
Now, a jury should decide on what to do with these people, who are falsely accusing others, of this heinous crime. This will continue to happen to men until somebody charges these “innocent people” with the lies that ruin lives!!
@@BRITAINSFINEST24 It's Epstein. So Kevin Spacey was fooling around with the girls at Epstein's island? Lol got it. Yes, I'm happy for him as the people who accused him had zero evidence to back up their accusations and, in fact, the evidence showed them to be money-grabbing liars. Have you analyzed the flight logs? Or are you just repeating something you heard while not even being able to spell Epstein correctly?
@Jodie-ux1kn all you have to do is research and you'll find it. Tom hanks is on it, Ellen DeGeneres also. Their are even photos off them both together ON the island.
If the allegations were all false, that is quite disturbing and the claimants should go to prison. They have not only harmed Spacey, but all actual victims of sexual assault.
what does that say about Hollywood, which has become so woke, so self-righteous, it is despicable. I really hope Mr Spacey will be able to get his life back on track. He's an amazing actor!
I was vocally on Team Spacey from the first day of this prolonged travesty of justice. I'm so happy and relieved that he has been exhonerated yet again. He should be celebrated now for the amazingly talented artist that he is. Otherwise, this idiocy is a loss for all of us. How can we make this up to him?
To be fair, if they are talking about the cases where Spacey was found not guilty not getting enough publicity they should also discuss the case where he WAS found guilty not getting much coverage either - the civil case where he was found guilty of breaching the sexual harassment policy on House of Cards and fined $31 million. Kevin was NOT shunned by Hollywood as a result of a 30 year old accusation by Anthony Rapp or because of his alleged misdeeds while running the Old Vic, it was because of his decades of creepy gropey behaviour towards young men which were well known within the industry and had continued contemporarily - as the verdict in the House of Cards case shows.
Or was it just a case of everyone believed he was guilty so they found him thus. Losing a law suit doesn’t necessarily mean his is actually guilty just that the jury thought he was. Because juries don’t always get it right. And the threshold of proof in a civil case is much lower than a criminal one.
@@cyndielake4092 Yes it is always possible, my point though was that Piers and Co shouldn't give the impression that he has been cleared in EVERY case when he was found guilty in a civil case (this was actually held before an arbitrator rather than a jury, who decided in favour of MRC, Kevin appealed the decision but it was upheld by a Los Angeles Superior Court Judge). One of his first reactions to the allegations in the US was to seek “evaluation and treatment” at a sex addiction clinic, which seems an odd response for someone who is completely innocent of any carnal misbehaviour.
Exactly. There were rumours floating around KS for decades before any accusations came out. Maybe partly because he chose to deny his sexual orientation - possibly that made it worse.
@@elinstar6034 That's the main reason why he didn't come out earlier probably - being in the closet meant people generally didn't look any closer into his actual behaviour, and any rumours about him making passes at other guys were treated as “proof” he might be gay instead of evidence that he might be a predator. Ironically he often blamed the media for “using sexuality as a weapon,” but that's exactly what he was doing.
@@TheRobin1976 I guess the reason I responded the way I did was you make statement regarding his behavior such as the last line in your most recent post as if you believe he is guilty. This is why the use of the word allegedly is used so often in the media. One so they don’t get sued but also in these types of cases there is no way to prove what he did or didn’t do so those who are deciding in these cases look at the claims and if there are enough allegations assume it must be true. And I agree with your point about Peirs & Co
5 years minimum prison sentence for anyone who makes a proveably false MeToo allegation. It'll prevent lives from being destroyed, and it'll help REAL victim get the attention and justice they deserve.
Nah just sue them if they wrongly accused you. If you can provide proof of motivation and that they deliberately lied, well, ice the cake with some punitive damages for that.
Proving sexual assault is incredibly difficult in court. The only reason weinstein got done was because he abused an entire battalion of women and the evidence was overwhelming. The best advice you can give to anyone who's been abused or worse is to go directly to the police and putting legal barriers in the way is not the right idea. We can discuss ways of illegally outing people before their convicted of anything but there had to be a discussion about balance.
@@nutcracker2916 Well when America has federal employees constantly perjuring themselves in front of Congress on live RUclips or TV with no consequences it kind of sets an example.
İ remember in 2018 when that story pop out, i was saying on facebook that there is no actual proof of him raping or molesting and people fckn attacked me instantly accusing me of defending rapist. Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor, i hope he'll get some good roles.
Looking for money or fame by trashing someone's reputation is despicable and should be prosecuted. Douglas Murray hit the nail on the head, as he always does, and good for Piers Morgan for highlighting this.
It’s very true, I remember when he was first accused he was everywhere, the main media, social media and even some celebrities talked about him. But I didn’t even know or heard that he was exonerated last year 😢
I just wanted to point something out about the American justice system. No one is ever found “innocent.” In criminal trials, a defendant is either found guilty or not guilty. “Not guilty” and “innocent” are not necessarily the same thing. “Not guilty” means that there was not compelling evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. It does not equal absolute innocence.
This. Every time I heard Pierce and the panel say “proven innocent” I am reminded that they don’t understand the legal system whatsoever. Courts and juries don’t deal with innocence.
The two used to be synonymous, but only in recent years has your argument started popping up, when people disagree with the result of a trial usually for idealogical reasons. You are presumed innocent unless the charges against you are proved. If they are found to have not been proved, you are not guilty. Therefore you continue to be in the state of presumed innocence. Unless you want to dispute the principle of presumed innocence, which is a fundamental principle in most if not all of the developed world.
You are 100% incorrect. 'Not guilty' absolutely means 'innocent'. You are 'innocent until proven guilty'. This is a basic tenant of western society. This doesnt mean they 100% definitely didnt do the crime, but without proof of a crime, why does anyone have the right to say someone is not innocent or is guilty? And smear their name? I think it is you who has a fundamental misunderstanding of the justice system. Dunning Kruger in action I think.
Thank You Douglas for yet again bringing common sense to this serious issue that Kevin has been tried, convicted and hung by social media. It disgusts me and I always knew and have said from the beginning that he was innocent. He is a fantastic actor and we love him.
For decades, at least 30 years, I have cautioned young men about whom they spend time with because of how easily someone can accuse them of inappropriate touching (often a grudgeful woman) ,and even their closest friends will have lingering doubts. Men can never successfully defend himself against horrid accusations, the accusing alone leaves a stink, even if it is untrue.
Good God, Grace is someone who talks the most, talks the loudest but says NOTHING. Notice the jokes and Mick and his age, but if the jokes had been at a woman’s expense it would have been outrage and scorn.
Really wish actors had better contractual protections against cancel culture. "Believe all women"/accusers is the same as "guilty until proven innocent" and it is reprehensible. Takes 5-10 years to get proven innocent, but their livelihoods are crippled immediately and forever.
I cant stand people saying " An acquittal doesnt mean innocent". The burden of proving guilt beyong a reasonable doubt is on the prosecutor. It is not the defendant who must prove their innocence. Innocent until proven guilty, never forget that!!!
An acquittal doesn’t mean neither innocent nor guilty. If there are not evidences to condemn him, the probability of his innocence is high. The victims only wanted to destroy his career. I don’t believe he did that.
I lost my job accused of theft years ago didnt get charged next day they let me go, it turned out it was the manager who went to jail but i still lost my job and people said i must have got away with it. This kind of thing happens all the time i feel for KEVIN
Same thing happened with Justin Roiland, the co-crestor of Rick and Morty. All charges were dropped for assault, but he's no longer doing the voices on Rick and Morty.
I hope MR Spacey returns to acting, not only is he very successful, he is also one of the best actors in the world. When i first heard these allegations i calle BS straigh away, now he has been vindicated by multiple courts around the world, good for him, 👏👏👏👏👏
Imagine if a shop keeper put someone’s slanderous messages in their shop window. Prosecuted straight away. Why are Social Media companies getting away with it?
Murdoch's press lead at the time by chief Witchfinder general Wootton. Had energy all right. They had history as Depp once accused The Sun of hacking, when Depp's , then little girl was in Great Ormond St hospital, seriously ill. And private details of it, got published in the newspaper. So Depp publicly accused them. I believe that's why they backed Heard.
@emilyhammonds5632 I've not seen the Dan Wooton scandal covered either. I like Piers, but if you're going to be 'uncensored' you have to be consistent. The way the media reacted to Johnny Depp being proven innocent, and Amber Heard an abuser, is disgraceful. That instance alone was the point I lost all respect for the MSM.
This is exactly what happened to Michael Jackson - and ultimately cost him his life. To this day - music channels dont play his music - the anniversaries of his death are never marked. Its utterly tragic and disgusting.
Same happened to me in south africa. Falsely charged for a murder that I had nothing to do with , withdrawn by a court, yet guilty to this very day 30years later by people. Unreal.
Social media has turned every milksop into a Hulk Hogan, every weak-kneed ninny into an MMA fighter, every opinionated moron into a Thurgood Marshall because of the cloak of anonymity and the scale of numbers.
Interesting conversation. I agree that the media just broadcast the scandal but not the exoneration of the innocent. I agree also that social media needs to be treated like any other broadcaster. Great conversation, shame the blond girl can’t stop shouting!
I was actually told verbatim by my Eastern Civ professor in 2000 (Conan sing-a-long), “men can be trapped in abusive relationships too” in a very straight forward, emotionally honest way- while at the time I lacked envy for my professors bc politics was at best an inconvenience & we were a spectacularly gifted set of students with incredibly specific life goals, I also found my curiosity peaked and my feminist intuitions less theoretical & more humanized. I can’t say I’m not thrilled for Spacey, but if the truth is out I am also very curious about the driving socioeconomic forces behind the entire ordeal. I can’t fathom this post actually being consumed as intended 🥂
Most men are in a abusive relationships, they just don't know it because they turn in to simps and let their wives control their lives. The old snipping the balls and carrying them in their purse thing.
Well said! We live among many liars, people who have been lying for years and attempting to destroy people with lies.. This needs to stop, there should be penalties for the liars.
If there are no consequences for false allegations people will continue to destroy innocent lives. There must be consequences
Just because a jury found him not guilty, doesn't mean the allegations are false.
Tell that to TripAdvisor. Or so many more …. Hard to get past it….peeWee Herman…..so many more.
@@mrmusiclover87 Correct. However, that does not mean that the allegations themselves would, during the trial, not have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be false. It is in that case that the false-accuser should be punished.
@@mrmusiclover87found not guilty on all charges 😳 that's innocent
@@louloubrow2171 First of all, no, it's technically not, as "innocent" and "not guilty" do not mean the same thing in a court of law. Secondly, my point is that whether he is found guilty or not, doesn't mean the allegations themselves are false. Remember the oj Simpson trial?
I hope Kevin Spacey does come back as an actor. He is brilliant.
that's write ...
@@bankafouf.right.
@@bankafouf. That's wrong.
So funny in horrible bosses
Totally Agree ,he is the BEST.
If people are proven to be a liar they should be charged for fraudulent claims and lawsuits.
Absolutely, no question!
In a case of he said she said it's hard to "prove" a victim is lying. Often there just isn't enough evidence to convict. That's why "not found guilty" doesn't mean by default "innocent". Although I know nothing of this case so I'm not specifically referencing it when I say that...
@@aislingnid5163 Yes, I agree with you on those points.
Morgan wouldn't get out of court.
there was a girl going around doing this to guys who turned her down and eventually the men counter sued for false allegations, loss of work defamation of character and won
Yes, people who lie need to be prosecuted, massively.
Agree. There is perjury, a.crime if you lie under oath, but it is rarely if ever prosecuted.
Grace saying, "they know what the risks of being in the limelight are", is essentially the same thing as blaming a rape victim for having been dressed in revealing clothing. Disgusting!
Grace is obviously in a wrong show. Having low IQ and limited vocabulary she would be a better fit in a cable TV show about painting nails. Piers, I understand you have to show the "Other sides" opinion but at least get someone capable of having one :)
She wasn’t excusing it… she was just explaining that when ppl become celebrities they will be targeted and that’s not right… listen to her again
Women can say such things flippantly because they very rarely end up in such a scenario. They typically do the blame came, false rape etc. How may guys' lives have been destroyed through liars, typically from women but also men like here? They should be banged up. End of!
Purely disturbing n disgusting! I'd really like to know how much she truly believes that once such a thing happens to her! You're in the spotlight too so you are ready to be faced with false accusations! Being cancelled n losing everything right? 😒😠😠😠🤦
Can you say hypocrisy.
After enduring 6 years of being treated as guilty until proven innocent I hope he sues House Of Cards and those who cancelled him for millions! The people who made the false charges against him should be in prison. I am not saying this because I am a KS fan, but because we ALL need to live with the basic legal right of being presumed innocent until proven guilty, otherwise our entire justice system falls apart and any one of us can be wrongfully accused of anything and cancelled!
His best friend Jeffrey Epstein should give him a job
You got to be kidding... He had 3 of his accusers killed... It's hard to convict someone when all of the witnesses are dead...
Kevin was presumed innocent ... he wasn't being kept in jail during trial. The general public had all sorts of theories but that is part of the cost of celebrity.
@@Ashley_Schaeffer You better present your evidence of these murders to the Police. In fact, why haven't you done so already?
@joyuk
Pedo apologist
This is a problem for many men. Accusations equal guilty. And then to just say "well he got off with it" rather than hes innocent. Its a terrible shame.
Especially in the family courts.
There's A difference between proven innocent and found not guilty. In the united states anyway. It means that there is no proof but it doesn't necessarily mean a crime didn't happen. Think OJ.
The lad was mate with Jefferey Epstein and flew on his private jet several times. What are you on about lol.
The blonde guest needs to learn that she is not the main character.
You’d love the Black Lives Matter bird, Imrhan 😂
The media shouldn't be allowed to report on accusations.
this is the best comment that ive ever read. because that would be the biggest impact in our society. I find it really sad that you only have....22 likes on this one.
Agreed!
That's not the answer. For a basic example, imagine the amber heard case. Depp was found guilty in the UK and by doing so they would be reporting on a lawful ( even if unjust) ruling. So after the us courts deemed him innocent the former journalism would now be deemed retrospectively accusations not fact. You can't control free speech. Also every country has different laws so who's going to hold these people accountable in this situation you put forward? Media should not be censored but it should be accountable for slander or held accountable for intentional misdirection.
I agree with that. The problem is the freedom of information act. Court records are public. I really think that legal accusations against anyone should not be public unless there's a conviction or judgement upholding the allegations.
The false accuser should be in prison for 10 years then when released made to work the rest of his life to pay Kevin Spacey some compensation.
That blonde girl just yells over everyone. So annoying
Not "yells," the word is "shrieks." I'd rather listen to a flock of crows.
Seems she got a free pass to play reporter, her folks are probably buddies with Piers 🤷🏼♀️
She's plain stupid.
Thick as a plank
She did nail Piers though logically. Piers simultaneously asked for more social media control - oh but not for Trump.
This is why Johnny Depp asked for Cameras in the court room. If he had not he would not have gotten his reputation back and his victory would have been swept under the rug.
Especially Murdoch's press who were gunning for him. They would have twisted the narrative to favour Heard.
I believe Johnny Depp decision is why the judges and jury are deciding not to just believe so called accuser. We and especially Men better thank that dude
Making false allegations should carry a criminal sentence. You can't just go around accusing ppl of heinous crimes they haven't done without consequences. In print media that is libel even on modest character questioning. These were sickening allegations
and they should be on a register
It should be branded on their face so everyone can see what a lying piece of 💩💩 looks like
You do know his on epsteins flight log right? His a very powerful man and his been exposed multiple times. Look at epsteim he was found not guilty many times and well we know what happened there.
@@BRITAINSFINEST24 being on a flight log doesn't make you guilty. Everyone should have the right of innocent until proven guilty. Imagine if you were falsely accused of something, would you just accept it and be happy because there is subjective evidence out there?
@Jack-dg6ky We all know everyone who got on that private plane knew about or took part in the heinous crimes epstein committed. He's been exposed for it multiple times. And if you can't see how guilty he is, then you need to wake up and step into reality. Jeffery epsteim was found not guilty many times before his arrest. Was he innocent? The guy has money and is a powerful man. Of course, he's gonna get off with it. I've been falsely accused before ya point is? I still deal with the mental problems it's caused me to this day. There's no argument to make there.
Let's bring Kevin spacey back on the screen !! VOTE YES
I almost lost a job once because a female coworker jokingly said that I had said something inappropriate to her that a manager took seriously. Fortunately, that coworker made it clear that she was making a joke and that I had not said anything inappropriate.
I had the police interview me, my daughter and my ex wife after a disgruntled customer told them I was a p d file because I wouldn't give her a refund which she wasn't entitled to. Yes she should've been charged for lying and wasting police time
@@MonoLith2049 It’s disgusting that someone would threaten your livelihood and freedom just to save some money. That woman is a disgusting person.
@@MonoLith2049when I was 13 me and 6 friends got accused of a gang rape.
It was by a girl in my neighbourhood that I had never interacted with in my life, I didn’t even know her. It was a big thing with police trying to pressure us to admit to it. Luckily after a couple weeks she ended up admitting to making up the whole story, she said she did it because she didn’t think anybody cared about her - I still don’t understand it tho, why that was what she decided to do.
Some people are seriously twisted
But I’m lucky she admitted to it, if she didn’t then I could have been known as some kind of freak sex criminal
False accusations are evil
@@MonoLith2049wow that's worst . Can CCTV help in this situation ?
It's true that that there's a difference between "not guilty" and "innoccent", but the man has beaten every legal case brought against him. You don't have to like him, but at some point you have to acknowledge that his life seems to have been taken away from him unfairly.
If you believe in the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" then by implication "not guilty" and "innocent" are one and the same, because "innocent" is the default position , until guilt is proven. If guilt is not proven then innocent remains.
@iykeharrison9161 not true.
You're never found innocent only not guilty.
The not guilty is usually due to lack of evidence.
If you want to be found innocent you have to file a petition to the courts ince found not guilty.
It's never given really.
Not guilty means the prosecutions case couldn't be made
@@iykeharrison9161???? No, they're not actually the same. "Innocent" isn't one of the choices given to a jury. "Not guilty" means that the prosecution did not meet it's burden of proof to support a guilty verdict.
@taylorlibby7642 ...Therefore, he's innocent.
I would be honoured to be blanked by Kevin Spacey. For most people it would be a step up.
Imagine being persecuted for 6 years for no reason whatsoever! Awful. This can happen to YOU!
There's a reason- it's just not been truly exposed. He's upset the machine for some reason, it's just the machine doing what it does best- destruction of an enemy without mercy
@@shaunlynch2019 and Tate
Trump knows all about it
@RealPeterAndrewNolansorry to hear that mate. Terrifying.
None of this happened out of nowhere, it was done for a reason, the media cover what they are told to cover
I just bloody love Douglas Murray! When he talks people should listen!
And isn't afraid to defend The West and Western Values.
I always do !!!
He is a stinky poof
He has his moments of bullshit.
I am not a fan of Douglas Murray and his views at all generally but agree with him 100% on this occasion.
Man, my heart breaks for Kevin Spacey, such a wonderful and talented actor. But he is so supreme I do hope we can see more of him, we need good art and he is a master of his!
I've been a fan of Kevin and still am. One hell of an actor.
Cosby show is ugly as the guy himself. Kevin Spacey as an actor is phenomenal and on all the sexual allegations on Spacey I knew from the start most were from the bad reading of all these people Spacey might have flirted with or approached and those gay dudes thought it was grabbing crotch or what not. It's the same when u call a women and touch her shoulder she alleges you have harassed her like wtf?
Douglas Murray is so well-spoken and puts his arguments forward in such a reasoned way, he makes that screechy female look even more ridulous, speaking of being in the public eye. These ppl who make up stories need to prosecuted. What a waste of court time, money and resources. This very thing happened to a hugely popular media personality in Canada. At the height of "Me Too", two women conspired against him. Despite being found "not guilty" and the women proven as liars, his career was never revived. Those women needed to be prosecuted for perjury.
screechy female....love it....god she was awful and so self-centered....
Douglas is absolutely right, as usual. I’m in the US and I never knew until this broadcast that Kevin Spacey was exonerated in the US. What I remember vividly is the accusation and the rewriting of house of cards to write him out of it. It was a terrible shame, because it was a fascinating and unusual program. Very well written and unfortunately, Kevin Spacey didn’t help his cause by immediately outing himself as gay is so that with a real crime. He should not have done that. He felt that his viewers would be more upset that he was gay, and they were with him grooming a younger man. This is been several years back now. So the time in between the revelation and his exoneration here in the US was dramatic. Perhaps Spacey should have had his publicist call in favors to have a press gaggle at the court once he was exonerated, as shown here this week in the UK.
I’m afraid I have to agree that is fall from Grace is too far gone, just like Phil Schofield. The greater sin is the grooming, and both gay men thought so too.
Kevin is actually Bisexual. Isn't that all the rage in Hollywood these days because white heterosexuals are hated?
I’m with you. This is news to me too😏
Ha . Next joke
NBC Nightly News covered it the day the verdict came out. I was surprised that they did - but they did.
Who didn’t know he was gay, it didn’t matter because he is a great actor. He didn’t discuss it because it’s nobodies business.
Spacy and Depp need to make a film together!! Really , they have been put through the ringer!!!!
I’d pay to watch it no matter what is in it 😂. Poor guys.
I think you are onto something!
"House of The Carribean"😂
Lol could be a buddy cop movie about falsely accused officers on the run!
@TopG8733Andrew Tate has groomed women and made money off them pimping them out, he openly admits it
There needs to be consequences to face allegations, they should pay for all damages.
Unbelievable what they did to this innocent man and they face no consequences.
This problem is easily solved. "Guilty and the accused is punished. "Not proven" and the case is dismissed. "Innocent" and the accuser is punished for bearing false witness. Can it really be that difficult.
Yeah it can
The accusation of women against men would drop like an asteroid from the sky, and women would think twice before ruining innocent men’s lives with endless false allegations.
This would work. Really good suggestion.
@@HolyRainbowism One woman accused a footballer she was dating of rape. The charges were dropped, she reunited with him. And now has a baby by him. Bizarre!
My brother got assault charges brought against him for restraining a woman by the wrists while she was punching him .. she called the cops and he didnt . . He beat the charges after a yr of not being able to see his kid. But no repercussions for her false claim.. he got called a woman basher and it was all very humiliating for him. I dont think hes been the same since.
I find the ease with which people attack others on social media really unpleasant. When I speak out against this, I too am attacked. There are a lot of sad people who seem to enjoy being poisonous.
The troll in me wants to attack this content so hard right now lolololol
Unhappy people always lash out at others. I love Kevin Spacey 💞and always will, no matter what the Haters say!
They are mostly cockroaches who would never make a peep to anyone in person.
@@Peekaboo-KittyKevin Spacey loves 14 year olds
I've missed spacey a lot, He's an amazing actor and we should enjoy as much of him as we can
Agreed, I hope they bring back house of cards
@@mk9330 Without that witch that decided to say nothing in his defence!
So easy to accuse, but almost impossible to be found not guilty by everyone who ‘judged’ you on the word of a liar.
Incredible, I had no idea the great Kevin Spacey had been exonerated! I am so happy to hear he has been proven innocent time and again. I do hope he then does something about suing those who alleged those awful things about him. People need to have consequences (both, personal and economic) for their false accusations.
And the liars who made these allegations won't be held to account for that. Anthony Rapp's accomplished career continues unmolested.
I miss Norm.
Yep. That’s how it continues to happen because no one is held accountable
Like Jussie Smollett.
And that is the real travesty...
They arent lying.....I was on set with Spacey im Sydney Australia on the set of Superman returns and he is GUILTY;;;;;;;I guarantee you. He is a predator
As always Douglas, your always spot on! Humble speech from Kevin Spacey, hopefully he can reignite his career.
I’m not famous or wealthy but I know what it’s like to have people want to bring you down so badly that they will do anything.
Some humans are disgusting and pathetic creatures and they need to face justice for making false allegations.
Agreed. They can literally ruin your life.
Been there, but i came out victorious and she was destroyed.
Some joke !?
Did any of You comenting here ever been a victim of a narcistic predator ? Mabe try it …
See this so many times people suporting and admire narcistic predators
As usual , Douglas Murray is 110% right ,our merciless society and media haved cancelled him off the planet .
I commented to a friend about the Russell Brand allegations and said "whatever happened to Kevin Spacey ?". I'd no idea he had been exonerated.
me too, didn't find out until stumbling across this video by complete accident. crazy how news about him being accused was everything then complete silence when he was acquitted.
I'm glad the truth has come out. Kevin Spacey is an actor I've admired since the 80's, and you have to search very hard to find a villain as sinister as Jonathan Doe in Se7en. I'm real pleased for him.
I knew he was innocent from the beginning. They just wanted his money. I love Kevin Spacey 💞and always will, no matter what the Haters say!
Really pleased for Kevin.
The CPS should now be thoroughly punished for pursuing a case with zero merit.
We need more than "lessons learnt" or "resignations".
We need a publically visible prosecution of those who brought this case and those who made these false accusations. Each one should serve the same prison sentence Kevin would have faced.
Austentatious Horror is now my new favourite phrase.
AMEN !
And Reciprocity !
Someone HAS to pay all the damage Kevin suffered.
Plus they stole from us the performance of an amazing Actor !
I do wonder if he wasn't guilty then why did he come out as gay when the accusations happened making him look more guilty than ever?
@@handikappad
honesty ?
@@krixpop Yeah
This is so true. I remember saying damn I hope he is not guilty and coworker accusing me of condoning his actions (which were not proven at that time)
Isn’t it wild
Reminds of me Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. The truth will always out.
saying you hope he is not guilty is also saying you hope he didnt do it, what a leap to make that into condoning it
I’m in a movie with Kevin in 2024 and knew this was nothing more than Celebrity Extortion. He’ll be back, in fact on March 22, 2024 in Peter Five Eight. I’m proud to be in this movie with him. Jack Trout
Douglas always speaks the truth and never holds back. Respect fella 👍
Now, a jury should decide on what to do with these people, who are falsely accusing others, of this heinous crime. This will continue to happen to men until somebody charges these “innocent people” with the lies that ruin lives!!
I didn't know he was found not guilty in the US and I'm happy for him. I, for one, stood up for him on social media.
Have you seen epsteims flight logs? The guy you're "happy" for was on them.
@@BRITAINSFINEST24 It's Epstein. So Kevin Spacey was fooling around with the girls at Epstein's island? Lol got it. Yes, I'm happy for him as the people who accused him had zero evidence to back up their accusations and, in fact, the evidence showed them to be money-grabbing liars. Have you analyzed the flight logs? Or are you just repeating something you heard while not even being able to spell Epstein correctly?
KS went to epstine island?
@@M-Htike No. Josh has no idea what he's babbling about.
@Jodie-ux1kn all you have to do is research and you'll find it. Tom hanks is on it, Ellen DeGeneres also. Their are even photos off them both together ON the island.
The blonde girl has her own justice system here ..
Wait until the system comes for her!
I'm impressed you could decipher her chicken squawk babbling.
Douglas Murray, thank you for your voice of reason as always
If the allegations were all false, that is quite disturbing and the claimants should go to prison. They have not only harmed Spacey, but all actual victims of sexual assault.
I hope Kevin spacey comes for all those people who ruined his life we need to go back to actually proving people guilty not guilty by public opinion
Don't you think it's strange that he came out gay after being accused of touching boys
He already did. They all died mysteriously at the same time.
Tell that to his victims.
@@TruthSeekingElf I honestly don't care
@@VampireHub616 no not really everyone seems to be gay in today's world
Love me some Kevin Spacey! Incredible actor! Hope he returns!
Jeffrey Epstein loved him too best friends he went to pedo Island numerous times
@@carlossus4973 is there another season due?
That Grace is infuriating.
Hope Kevin and Piers will have a sit down together.
When did we all start to accept people talking over each other? Halt the conversation and call the person out if they interrupt. Just don't allow it.
what does that say about Hollywood, which has become so woke, so self-righteous, it is despicable. I really hope Mr Spacey will be able to get his life back on track. He's an amazing actor!
The “justice” system takes FOREVER now, which is not how it use to be. 🇺🇸
Love Douglas Murray!......speaks truth!
I was vocally on Team Spacey from the first day of this prolonged travesty of justice. I'm so happy and relieved that he has been exhonerated yet again. He should be celebrated now for the amazingly talented artist that he is. Otherwise, this idiocy is a loss for all of us. How can we make this up to him?
False accusers should get double the sentence the accused was going to receive, that would put a stop to a lot of it .
To be fair, if they are talking about the cases where Spacey was found not guilty not getting enough publicity they should also discuss the case where he WAS found guilty not getting much coverage either - the civil case where he was found guilty of breaching the sexual harassment policy on House of Cards and fined $31 million. Kevin was NOT shunned by Hollywood as a result of a 30 year old accusation by Anthony Rapp or because of his alleged misdeeds while running the Old Vic, it was because of his decades of creepy gropey behaviour towards young men which were well known within the industry and had continued contemporarily - as the verdict in the House of Cards case shows.
Or was it just a case of everyone believed he was guilty so they found him thus. Losing a law suit doesn’t necessarily mean his is actually guilty just that the jury thought he was. Because juries don’t always get it right. And the threshold of proof in a civil case is much lower than a criminal one.
@@cyndielake4092 Yes it is always possible, my point though was that Piers and Co shouldn't give the impression that he has been cleared in EVERY case when he was found guilty in a civil case (this was actually held before an arbitrator rather than a jury, who decided in favour of MRC, Kevin appealed the decision but it was upheld by a Los Angeles Superior Court Judge). One of his first reactions to the allegations in the US was to seek “evaluation and treatment” at a sex addiction clinic, which seems an odd response for someone who is completely innocent of any carnal misbehaviour.
Exactly. There were rumours floating around KS for decades before any accusations came out. Maybe partly because he chose to deny his sexual orientation - possibly that made it worse.
@@elinstar6034 That's the main reason why he didn't come out earlier probably - being in the closet meant people generally didn't look any closer into his actual behaviour, and any rumours about him making passes at other guys were treated as “proof” he might be gay instead of evidence that he might be a predator. Ironically he often blamed the media for “using sexuality as a weapon,” but that's exactly what he was doing.
@@TheRobin1976 I guess the reason I responded the way I did was you make statement regarding his behavior such as the last line in your most recent post as if you believe he is guilty. This is why the use of the word allegedly is used so often in the media. One so they don’t get sued but also in these types of cases there is no way to prove what he did or didn’t do so those who are deciding in these cases look at the claims and if there are enough allegations assume it must be true.
And I agree with your point about Peirs & Co
5 years minimum prison sentence for anyone who makes a proveably false MeToo allegation. It'll prevent lives from being destroyed, and it'll help REAL victim get the attention and justice they deserve.
Amen to that 🙏
Nah just sue them if they wrongly accused you. If you can provide proof of motivation and that they deliberately lied, well, ice the cake with some punitive damages for that.
Proving sexual assault is incredibly difficult in court. The only reason weinstein got done was because he abused an entire battalion of women and the evidence was overwhelming. The best advice you can give to anyone who's been abused or worse is to go directly to the police and putting legal barriers in the way is not the right idea. We can discuss ways of illegally outing people before their convicted of anything but there had to be a discussion about balance.
No one seems to get prosecuted for perjury , which surely lying on oath is ?
@@nutcracker2916 Well when America has federal employees constantly perjuring themselves in front of Congress on live RUclips or TV with no consequences it kind of sets an example.
İ remember in 2018 when that story pop out, i was saying on facebook that there is no actual proof of him raping or molesting and people fckn attacked me instantly accusing me of defending rapist.
Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor, i hope he'll get some good roles.
I love Douglas Murray. He speaks facts. He does his research. I feel so sorry for any guest who is against Douglas Murray
Looking for money or fame by trashing someone's reputation is despicable and should be prosecuted. Douglas Murray hit the nail on the head, as he always does, and good for Piers Morgan for highlighting this.
I hope he can resurrect his career. This case just proves that not all allegations are true.
Douglas Murray & Esther are once again the voices of reason.
Grace is just blabbering without making a point!
Mr. Morgan thank you so much for telling the truth. You have never been a follower but a leader.
It’s very true, I remember when he was first accused he was everywhere, the main media, social media and even some celebrities talked about him. But I didn’t even know or heard that he was exonerated last year 😢
Innocent until proven guilty - not in this day and age.
how about we keep the accused name out of the newspaper just like they do with the accuser even if it comes out as false
I just wanted to point something out about the American justice system. No one is ever found “innocent.” In criminal trials, a defendant is either found guilty or not guilty. “Not guilty” and “innocent” are not necessarily the same thing. “Not guilty” means that there was not compelling evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. It does not equal absolute innocence.
This.
Every time I heard Pierce and the panel say “proven innocent” I am reminded that they don’t understand the legal system whatsoever. Courts and juries don’t deal with innocence.
The two used to be synonymous, but only in recent years has your argument started popping up, when people disagree with the result of a trial usually for idealogical reasons. You are presumed innocent unless the charges against you are proved. If they are found to have not been proved, you are not guilty. Therefore you continue to be in the state of presumed innocence. Unless you want to dispute the principle of presumed innocence, which is a fundamental principle in most if not all of the developed world.
@@beeepsSpot on!
Thank you!
You are 100% incorrect. 'Not guilty' absolutely means 'innocent'. You are 'innocent until proven guilty'. This is a basic tenant of western society.
This doesnt mean they 100% definitely didnt do the crime, but without proof of a crime, why does anyone have the right to say someone is not innocent or is guilty? And smear their name?
I think it is you who has a fundamental misunderstanding of the justice system. Dunning Kruger in action I think.
Thank You Douglas for yet again bringing common sense to this serious issue that Kevin has been tried, convicted and hung by social media. It disgusts me and I always knew and have said from the beginning that he was innocent. He is a fantastic actor and we love him.
For decades, at least 30 years, I have cautioned young men about whom they spend time with because of how easily someone can accuse them of inappropriate touching (often a grudgeful woman) ,and even their closest friends will have lingering doubts. Men can never successfully defend himself against horrid accusations, the accusing alone leaves a stink, even if it is untrue.
Good God, Grace is someone who talks the most, talks the loudest but says NOTHING.
Notice the jokes and Mick and his age, but if the jokes had been at a woman’s expense it would have been outrage and scorn.
Really wish actors had better contractual protections against cancel culture.
"Believe all women"/accusers is the same as "guilty until proven innocent" and it is reprehensible.
Takes 5-10 years to get proven innocent, but their livelihoods are crippled immediately and forever.
This is so sad, Kevin needs to come back.
I cant stand people saying " An acquittal doesnt mean innocent". The burden of proving guilt beyong a reasonable doubt is on the prosecutor. It is not the defendant who must prove their innocence.
Innocent until proven guilty, never forget that!!!
An acquittal doesn’t mean neither innocent nor guilty. If there are not evidences to condemn him, the probability of his innocence is high. The victims only wanted to destroy his career. I don’t believe he did that.
Just because a defendant is found not guilty it doesn't mean they are innocent.
The court needs to start jailing the people who lie and destroy people
What's the difference between innocent and not guilty? Just ask OJ Simpson...
Yet he lost a civil case .
Exactly!
Well yeah, he was guilty af. The civil case was a slam dunk.
Unfortunately these days people are guilty until proven innocent I wish him well
Those false allegators should be put to prison
I lost my job accused of theft years ago didnt get charged next day they let me go, it turned out it was the manager who went to jail but i still lost my job and people said i must have got away with it. This kind of thing happens all the time i feel for KEVIN
Poor man’s career is ruined as legally innocent in theory 😢
Just like OJ
Isaac Kappy is dead.
Why did it even go to court if with the lack of proof? What happens to the liars who dragged em to this?
Same thing happened with Justin Roiland, the co-crestor of Rick and Morty. All charges were dropped for assault, but he's no longer doing the voices on Rick and Morty.
Should sue for unfair dismissal.
I hope MR Spacey returns to acting, not only is he very successful, he is also one of the best actors in the world.
When i first heard these allegations i calle BS straigh away, now he has been vindicated by multiple courts around the world, good for him, 👏👏👏👏👏
Imagine if a shop keeper put someone’s slanderous messages in their shop window. Prosecuted straight away. Why are Social Media companies getting away with it?
Kevin needs to tell the world who these liars were that accused him
I agree but where was this same energy for Johnny Depp? He was proven to be innocent.
Murdoch's press lead at the time by chief Witchfinder general Wootton. Had energy all right. They had history as Depp once accused The Sun of hacking, when Depp's , then little girl was in Great Ormond St hospital, seriously ill. And private details of it, got published in the newspaper. So Depp publicly accused them. I believe that's why they backed Heard.
My thoughts exactly maybe because piers works for the same company as Dan Wootton
@emilyhammonds5632 I've not seen the Dan Wooton scandal covered either. I like Piers, but if you're going to be 'uncensored' you have to be consistent. The way the media reacted to Johnny Depp being proven innocent, and Amber Heard an abuser, is disgraceful. That instance alone was the point I lost all respect for the MSM.
@@simonbrandy9662 Yes, Maybe as much as I like Piers. he perhaps should rename his show. Piers Morgan Cherry picking ?
Men that fight and win their cases still lose. They never regain their careers.
This is exactly what happened to Michael Jackson - and ultimately cost him his life. To this day - music channels dont play his music - the anniversaries of his death are never marked. Its utterly tragic and disgusting.
Kevin spacey is not a paedophile
Same happened to me in south africa. Falsely charged for a murder that I had nothing to do with , withdrawn by a court, yet guilty to this very day 30years later by people. Unreal.
Social media has turned every milksop into a Hulk Hogan, every weak-kneed ninny into an MMA fighter, every opinionated moron into a Thurgood Marshall because of the cloak of anonymity and the scale of numbers.
Interesting conversation. I agree that the media just broadcast the scandal but not the exoneration of the innocent. I agree also that social media needs to be treated like any other broadcaster. Great conversation, shame the blond girl can’t stop shouting!
Can anyone name one intelligent thing Grace has ever said?
Piers constantly showing his true colors by having Douglas Murray as a a co-host non stop
Mr. Murray is so right! Media is to blame too.
I was actually told verbatim by my Eastern Civ professor in 2000 (Conan sing-a-long), “men can be trapped in abusive relationships too” in a very straight forward, emotionally honest way- while at the time I lacked envy for my professors bc politics was at best an inconvenience & we were a spectacularly gifted set of students with incredibly specific life goals, I also found my curiosity peaked and my feminist intuitions less theoretical & more humanized. I can’t say I’m not thrilled for Spacey, but if the truth is out I am also very curious about the driving socioeconomic forces behind the entire ordeal.
I can’t fathom this post actually being consumed as intended 🥂
I can't fathom someone so self inclined to bolster themselves up as a super gifted person having any humility or any actual talent or intelligence.
You're a bloody mentalist!
Most men are in a abusive relationships, they just don't know it because they turn in to simps and let their wives control their lives. The old snipping the balls and carrying them in their purse thing.
well you tried to sound fancy, didn't you?
You had double helpings of alphabet soup and have been farting fancy words ever since.
Every time I hear Grace talk, my ears bleed 🤦🏻♂️
The alleged perpetrator should be kept anonymous until a guilty verdict is reached. If they’re found not guilty then they should remain anonymous.
The only way to stop false accusations is to start punishing those who make false claims worse than the punishment they are claiming.
Death penalty .
Well said! We live among many liars, people who have been lying for years and attempting to destroy people with lies.. This needs to stop, there should be penalties for the liars.
We also live among many abusers… let’s not punish victims.