Very funny!!!! You must remember it's a German car and basically a Bentley in a VW body... So since it is German, "we have ways of finding your wallet!"....
And the moral of the story is, don't go to man dealers for servicing. They are on commission if the cab fiddle the bill above £1,000. Find a local mechanic and make him your friend. That said all high end cars, the spare parts are ridiculously expensive. The Phaeton shares the sane platform as a Bentley, do you are paying Bentley prices to be seen, or not seen in a Volkswagen which no one else as ever heard if or know how luxurious they are.
I bought 2008 year phaeton with 415000km on it, it's really nice car If you can do mainteance and other repairs yourself, biggest problem i have had is that Webasto isn't working, i bought used unit with Price of 75€ and other was rearwheel bearing which i already had, and was pretty easy to change. Mine has 3.0tdi v6 which also is reliable unit. Only expensive thing in this car really is that car taxes are 950€/year, but Passat also had 820€ so not that big Price to play for luxury, also full coverage insurance was 900€ on finland.
hhahahahahaha the vw dealership spent 6 hours to diagnose your shock absorbers. man, that dealership must love seeing your bald head coming in every time
i worked at a vw dealer in the service department and our advisors and management referred Phaeton owners to a high end Euro shop in our city. We wouldn't even do servicing on one and our call center would turn Phaeton owners away.
@@Ilikepie18855 They are happy to do diagnostics. But for example replacing a shock takes x hours according to the book and if the bolts don't come off due to rust and it takes them x+2 hours, they can only charge you x hours.
Living in Switzerland and getting it repaired at a dealer certainly bumps up the prices! I've had my V10 Phaeton for just over 3 years, had the engine out twice to have the turbos, intercoolers, exhaust, injectors, suspension, discs & pads, etc. replaced and still didn't come to anywhere near that cost! You should move to Poland so you can actually afford to run stupid cars like this ;)
Yeah, high cost of workmanship here either means paying lots of money or you have to work on the car yourself. I chose the first option (bankruptcy). 😢😉
Had the Bentley Flying Spur W12 6.0 petrol. Every time is drove it, I cringed that it was a Phaeton in disguised. So I got the Phaeton 3.0 diesel. Now I don't worry about parking & now I'm a common man. Lol Love it... If you want headache free motoring, you just can't beat a Toyota Land Cruiser. Only wear & tare in parts & User luxury, but Swiss army knife in any situation. I still have a 25 year old Cruiser and still it impresses me very day.
@@SacreDro apart from the usual common issues, check for oil leaks. Also the electrics are a major problem with the phaeton. It can be difficult to check though so get a mechanic to connect a laptop and run a diagnostic, but even this might not show up everything.
yeah it's unbelievable... The bulbs for my bixenon 2009 Volvo V50 cost about 150$ here in Romania and you can change them yourself, or pay another 50-70$ if you want them installed by a specialized electrician in a shop.
Audi A4 bought used Rear brakes: 620$ Oil change: 90$ 2 years of ownership and she drives like a dream. 😍 -------------- Honda Civic si 5 year ownership bought new 3 oil changes: 260$☺️ You could have bought my Honda with all the money you spent servicing the phaeton!
Luckily Hoovie has the Wizard... If a VW dealer is that expensive in Switzerland I can't even think of a Rolls/Bentley one lmaooo that Turbo R would be a knife through his wallet
Your story brought back some forgotten memories of my own experiences with expensive German cars. I took delivery of a 1978 733i in November of 1978. I paid 24,500 US dollars, which adjusted for today's dollar is about 100K. I owned the car for a period of 10 years and drove it for approximately 95,000 miles. I no longer remember the details of all the repairs and failures I experienced, during and after the factory warranty expired, but I do remember that my total costs for maintenance and repairs was somewhere between 15 and 20 thousand dollars, even though I did much of the work myself. I sold the car for 6000.00 and never admitted to anyone what a disappointment it was. So yes, despite the fact that my car was new it was a nightmare to own and a complete waste of money.
Another brilliant video! Love them! I can definitely tell that you're not an accountant.... no accountant would ever purchase a car that cost them this much lool. You're a man who clearly loves his cars.
QuickQuips Yep mine is a 2007 Toyota Avalon. Very comfortable and highly equipped for it’s time (Heated and ventilated seats, reclining back seats, etc..). I also have a 2011 BMW and a 2012 Infiniti but nothing come close to Toyota in build quality and comfort
I bought a 2006 Lexus LS430 about the time you bought the Phaeton fo 30 thousand dollars, with similar mileage. I actually was in the market for a Phaeton and and found out VW dealers had no idea how to work on this car and that is in the San Francisco Bay Area. So as of today I have spent maybe $450.00 on unexpected repairs on this Lexus and can get $13,000.00 if I sell it. The Phaeton plant in Dresden is fabulous though. FYI there is only one Phaeton left in the Bay Area that I can tell.
I have a soft spot in my heart for the Phaeton. It is a really nice looking car with a ton of features. I can see why they were only available for 3 models years in the states. I believe (2004 -2006). Correct me if I am wrong. The high MSRP and the ownership costs.
I had a terrible experience with what I thought would be a cheap little Mazda 2. After spending and spending on the peice of crap I ended up trading it in. I just cut my losses other wise it would have cost me more money 🙄
Just watched this video while considering buying a 20+ year old 2004 VW Phaeton W12 in 2024. Thank you for opening my eyes to what a nightmare of a decision this could have ended up being and saving me all the money and trouble!
It costs about $18,250 USD per year to own it. For anyone that’s owned an older exotic, luxury, rare, or a combination of the three types of cars, they will tell you that’s not too bad. Considering whoever bought this new for $120,000 USD (MSRP), and lost close to $100k alone JUST in depreciation, not including maintenance, insurance, fuel, etc.
I bought a 2014 Passat in 2015, it was still in factory warranty w/30.000km. During the 5 months of warranty, it broke down 3 or 4 times, added some 5 pages of "service records". Transmission most expensive of all. 7 or 8 months after the warranty expired, transmission failed again. They wanted 3600EU (with 50% discount for being out of warranty for not so long. Repaired at an independent repair shop for 1200. Then water pump failed (1000EU), some electronic module (800EU) , CNG filling valve (400EU), Then tranny mechatronic module failed (1200EU again), it would not go out of "P", so I had to call a city towing service to lift it up and deliver it to repair shop (350EU). AC compressor failed (600EU), alternator failed (380EU), After that transmission failed again, 2 clutches were replaced (800EU). 2 months later tranny control module failed (around 1000EU). Then heating system went crazy. Cold air coming in all the time, was not possible to drive in winter. Attempted to be repaired a few times, no success. It was repaired later at an independent VW specialist, had to take the whole dashboard out, it set me back over 2000EU. CNG opening valve failed, 350EU. Etc etc, all together I drove around 80.000km in 18 months, sold @110.000. VW never again!
You are a very rich man !!!! i will stick with my Lexus LS430. I heard horror stories of BMW expenses, this one beats all ! I wonder how much will be maintenance cost for a 2005 A8...
I had a 2012 Q7. Great car, but was in the shop every three months needing service. My most expensive visit was almost $5,000, which included tires, and and engine flush.
@@michaelronan7769 I had Hyundai Santa Fe 2012, its pretty big SUV with 3.3L V6. And maintainance cost to me nothing for 2 years. Absolutely reliable car..
Had the Bentley Flying Spur W12 6.0 petrol. Every time is drove it, I cringed that it was a Phaeton in disguised. So I got the Phaeton 3.0 diesel. Now I don't worry about parking & now I'm a common man. Lol Love it... If you want headache free motoring, you just can't beat a Toyota Land Cruiser. Only wear & tare in parts & User luxury, but Swiss army knife in any situation. I still have a 25 year old Cruiser and still it impresses me very day.
There is one for sale near me for $6500 in great condition but after doing the conversion it cost this man $29,000 U.S. dollars for maintenance for four years. That's insane
I live in Switzerland too and I am the owner of a 2004 Audi A8 W12 for one year now. It had some issues that needed to be fixed, thats why the car was for sale cheap. New price of the car was also arround 200k, it has a fridge, massage seats all arround, electric seats in the back,... Its a very nice car to drive, you can sleep on the backseat while somebody drives the car at 200-250km/h. Arround the same amount of things failed on my car, like on your phaeton. But I fixed all of them myself, what made it much cheaper. The car will be sold soon, because it uses way too much fuel. My costs after one year and 11300km: Fuel 3000CHF oil change 100CHF Insurance 1200CHF Tax 1100CHF Tickets for Speeding and parking 80CHF Spare Parts 450 CHF Tires 1200 CHF Maintenance 1300 CHF Cost of Ownership +- 8500CHF Purchase price 6000.- sale price +- 8000.- (online value arround 10000CHF, insurance value 9500.-, realistic price is lower due to low demand) Depriciation (actually attribution, as the car is worth more) -2000.- TCO 6500CHF Cost per Year 6500CHF Cost per km 0.57 CHF (still very high) Costs in Detail www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht/1037619.html Things that failed: exhaust gas leak (not fixed yet) 4x front drive shaft joints (1 or 2 were actually broken, I replaced all 4) 200CHF front brake pads 70CHF New winter tires 18" 235/50 Goodyear 600.- New summer tires 19" 255/40 Pirelli 600.- Alternator (started to leak coolant) 400.- Valve cover gaskets, air mass meters, spark plugs 600.-
OMFG Switzerland is so expensive :) 90 franks for wheel change?? You can do it 4 times for that price a little bit more to the east in Europe. Upper control arm change 1400?? Wow
So what does he mean when he says “wheel change”? That sounds like changing out one wheel (damaged?) for another? I guess he means tire rotation, possibly with rebalancing?
OMG. I so wanted one of those. Here in the States, a used one sells for maybe $5000 USD. Now I have an idea why they sell for so little. But they were absolutely beautiful cars for the time and could stand proudly next to other German luxury cars.
Thanks for the great vid! Some reference here... I bought an S 500 Lang (220 chassis, last year model = 2005) 3 years ago, driven then about 145k. It now has 215k and I have spent about 3000€ on service & maintenance at a specialist workshop (including 3-4 services plus new pads & discs rear {brakes are the only thing I did myself} + new battery + oil change on 7G-Tronic). Average fuel consumption 10.8 per 100km and it goes 0-100km/h in 6.3sec. I do think the W12 Phaeton is nicer but I heavily suggest to go for a Merc instead if you're not loaded. I paid around 10k€ for mine in Germany + around 3k€ taxes when I brought it to Finland. Fantastic value and the car has spent zero nights at a workshop = drivable every single day!
I had a 1980 VW Rabbit, when I was a teen in 1986. 1. Ballast resistor wire 2. Fuel pump relay 4. Fuel Pump 5. Alternator 6. Valve body in transmission 7. Starter 8. Fuel injectors 9. Fuel Distributor 10. Fuse Block 11. Front Axles with inner & outer CV joints 12 . Another starter, 13 Heat Shield for starter 14 Speedometer stopped working 15 Water pump started leaking , so I just sold the thing for $150.00 16 . Radiator 17. Ballast Resistor. that control blower. . No! I will NEVER buy another VW. When I watch a game show and someone wins a VW, I shout sell it IMMEDIATELY ! My nextdoor neighbor accused me of making love to the car because I was underneath it so often. Almost forgot 18 Muffler, 19 Catalytic Converter clogged , so that was replaced.
I’ve had a Mercedes S Class and a BMW 5 Series as well as two Volvos in the past. The Volvos weren’t nearly as costly to own as the Mercedes or BMW but you might want to try a Lexus. Though not quite as tightly wound a sport sedan they are excellent as luxury sedans s and there is a rewarding value to that and all that I can tell you is that the ultimate luxury is a car that works every day, never leaves you stranded ever, and that you don’t have to think about. You never go to bed at night with a knot in your stomach upset that your car is driving you to distraction instead of your destination. The greatest luxury is peace of mind. So far only two batteries a set of tires a set of brakes in nine years of ownership. The dealership gives me a choice of picking my car up and dropping off a loaner car at my home for maintenance service and bring it back later to me at work or I can go to the dealership. If I go to the dealership they have an espresso bar, stenographers and neck massagers. Life doesn’t get much better. I thought that my S Class would have been my worst gold digger car but the BMW was even worse.
@@LlyleHunter thanks, i was thinking about buying an Rx and it's good to know they give this kind of great service even for customers who buy cheaper models not just the "flagship " models.
That's quite a bit of money to spend on a used car, good analysis. I purchased a brand new Chrysler Sebring in 2009 and 264,000 miles (425,000km) later, I'm still driving it. My entire car ownership costs less than what you paid in repairs alone. Yikes!
Very informative and articulated story. I have to say the interior looks so seductive. If you had done a PRE-PURCHASE VW dealer inspection report (they cost $AUD900 here in Australia) how many of those faults would have been brought to your attention ie: steering idler arms, brake rotors etc.? The dealerships here have taken to videoing the car during service particularly the underneath showing you and commenting about tyres, brake linings & rotors etc and sending that videoclip to you before you collect the car, in case you want to talk to the service person before you come to collect the car. Perhaps the dealers are learning shocking the customer is bad for business. Just so you know, just hearing you talk thru the history with occasional still pictures keep me captivated with the details, including the slowly released solution to the flickering lights. Well done.such presentations of potential dry data like that, and keeping our interest, is a special skill. You have that skill Thank you
Thanks for the kind words! I actually knew the brakes were due before buying the car. Bought the car of a private seller who was pretty upfront about everything. It was factored in the purchase price. The other things could not have been caught by a PPI as they only came up much later. At the time of purchase the car was in great shape. It had been under extended warranty until a month after I bought it and the previous owner was quite meticulous (He even took the car to Phaeton owners gatherings around Europe). I actually bought a _good_ example of a W12 Phaeton. A bad one would have gotten even more expensive (if that is even imaginable).
While on a skiing vacation in Switzerland a few years ago with my wife, she reversed slowly into another car and put a hairline crack in the other car's grill. The owner (lady who was renting our apartment to us) agreed that the small grill piece affected could be swapped out if we went to the local dealer to get it. Long story short, after 4 visits to the dealer and 3 days later with loads of paperwork, we were given the piece. I slotted it into place in 3 minutes. Basically, you cannot buy a piece from a dealer unless you are the proven owner of the same model. Being Switzerland, it was pricey.
I had my first Phaeton a 2003 for 8 years and it cost me a window regulator, a couple of batteries, tyres, breaks and general servicing, that’s about it. My son has it now and it’s cost a bit more over the last 2 years with reconditioning the transmission, an aircon pump, alternator and pulleys not because it needed them but as the bumper was off and the car was stripped out made sense to do it then, oh and a couple of new headlight lamps for the same reason. The car is now 17 years old and has about 120000 miles on the clock. It runs beautifully drives almost as well as my 2014 phaeton so I’ve been very pleased with it and it been quite cheap over the 10 years and very reliable. So it’s probably been the best car I’ve ever owned. Even better that my Vauxhall Senator 24v although not as fun to drive. I think the phaeton is a bargain second hand luxury car, but it’s best to do any major work yourself or via a good independent garage as VW can be awful at times and the costs horrendously high. Note between getting my second Phaeton I had a 2010 Mercedes S-Class. I had it for a year and I hated it. The add blu system failed twice then the up stream and down stream Nox sensors failed, then the air suspension collapsed at the rear, this then messed up the front. Horrible drive, noisy engine and cost me about £5000 over the year. Now that’s a car that can cost you an absolute fortune. Glad to see the back of it.
The best way to own a car like this is is to get one with a manufacturer backed warranty. I have a BMW insured warranty on my 760. It almost 2k a year however its paid for itself many times over. My rule of thumb is no warranty no dealer.
1 chf / km is still cheaper than taxi, plus if you go by taxi you probably consume alcohol for that money ... and yet it's a w12 ... so it's worth it!!
Except with a taxi you don't spend time going to and from the service center. Even if you get a loaner, which you probably won't everytime, you still lose a lot of time.
I am now 66 years old, we grew up 6 children and I had never money for such an expensive car. The most expensive car we bought was about 12,500 DM approximately 6,300 Euros and I drove it over 460,000 km in miles about 300,000 miles and the cheapest was 250 DM approx. 125 € this one was a Mercedes 220D whom no one maintained properly. With my former Audi A3 TDI I made only 384,000 km (about 250,000 miles) this had 319,000 km (about 200,000 miles) on the speedometer and I had to junk it with 704,655 km on board, I bought this car for 1,900 € but I overturned with it on the motorway and totalled it. The car I drive now an Audi A3 pump injector Diesel I bought with 295,000 km on board and it has now about 452,000 km (approximately 275,000 miles). I do all the repairs alone trying to avoid any repair shop. May the Lord bless and keep you All and have a relaxing Weekend.😊(Consumption for these Diesels was between 3,6 till 4,6 litres per 100 km (approximately 60 Miles)
The list of service doesn't really look that bad at all. A DIYer could have fixed those things pretty easily and inexpensively. Now if the starter or alternator had went out on that W12, that would have been a real nightmare (drivetrain has to be dropped out to replace).
NAT NAT, The car does seem great. Have you done an estimated cost of ownership over the last 5 years? What kind of engine and how many miles are on it?
Justin Aeneas Hi, I‘m from Austria and my Phaeton has the 3.0tdi Diesel motor with 233hp, which isn‘t available in US. I bought it with 146K kilometer for 19K Euro (~21 K USD) and drove 70K kilometer until now. I did two services for 500 USD each, a wheel bearing for 400 USD and this year a transmission flush (for protection) for 660 USD and new steering joints and breakpads at the front for 900 USD.
I love the Phaeton, but VW seems to have a real issue with suppliers. The car uses more individual components than most, but the quality of the parts seems to be a problem.
The problem if you take any car to a dealership the cost is going to be hi never take a car to the dealership no matter what type of car it is that's just 101 car service a good independent mechanic who know his stuff simple
Sure, but here in Switzerland a good Indy easily costs 100+ CHF/USD an hour. So, unless you do the work yourself it's going to be expensive. And even if you DIY your time also has value.
@@swisscarguy Germany is right around the corner no matter where you live in switzerland (50 - 70 km). You could have saved half of the money just by spending 1 hour drive to drop it off in germany. And man, please spend some more time in the internet. The flickering of the xenon lights is a common problem who could have been solved easily. Who starts to replace the whole control unit before trying new light bulbs which cost only 40 Euros each?
@@stevejohnson4105 Due to the ban of old diesel´s in bigger cities recently, the car isn´t worth any money. Now I have to ride it till the end (or till one of the windshield wiper brakes ;))
Welp if it makes you feel any better I bought a $400 Subaru with 300k on the clock off the internet sight unseen, $150 in parts and it was on the road. 3 years later all i have done since is fluids and a radiator + hoses. Its my daily beater. Never broke down nothing else had been changed not even tyres brakes pads - all still good.
generally a good rule of thumb is the maintenance costs remain proportionate to the retail price of the car when new, even while the market value depreciates. There are exceptions but this is the most likely scenario.
I have a 2004 Phaeton with a W12. I've had it for a little over 2 years and have not spent the kind of money you're talking about. Brakes, all around, cost me about $800CDN. Any/all other servicing (that I couldn't do myself) has been quite reasonable. Servicing has not been done at a VW dealership. Couldn't afford that. LOL.
This has not been my experience during two years of ownership of a 2005 Phaeton, even while doing some driving everyday on Texas dirt roads. I am considering upgrading to a newer car if I could afford it. Sounds like owning an auto repair shop in Switzerland would be a good way to increase my income. What area do you live in?
@@DroTheWhale It is V8 4 seater. The power difference between the W12 and V8 makes no sense on roads that do not have autobahn speeds, and who needs a W12 that requires doing an engine out for even simple repairs like replacing the starter? Getting ready to sell it. Great car, but not realistic for the isolated places I live at in Texas and Colorado.
@@DroTheWhale Had the Bentley Flying Spur W12 6.0 petrol. Every time is drove it, I cringed that it was a Phaeton in disguised. So I got the Phaeton 3.0 diesel. Now I don't worry about parking & now I'm a common man. Lol Love it... If you want headache free motoring, you just can't beat a Toyota Land Cruiser. Only wear & tear in parts & Uber luxury, but Swiss army knife in any situation. I still have a 25 year old Cruiser and still it impresses me very day.
"What?!?!" Very nice haha. I own a V6 Diesel Paheton (2009), it has done well so far, but they rip you off on parts. Only for the front rotors (brake) VW wanted 550€s. Bought front AND rear rotor AND pads for 440€ (Brembo!) and had them replaced by a friend. VW wanted around 2500 for this (you could go to any shop instead). Now the trunk stopped working :( My advice anyway: Don't get the big engines. Everything is much more expensive, just fuel and such and if anything fails its more expensive then with the base engines. Second advice: go for all season tires if possible (depending on the climate region you live in) saves you money for switching the wheels all the time. I drive Bridgestone wheater control, they work pretty good
have you had it for a long time and do you related to all these problems? I see the workaround is using aftermarket parts and not use the VW shop. How about suspension, electronics, etc. On a 3.0 TDI I suppose you again have to remove the bumper and headlights to replace a xenon bulb. What is your assessment of the car and cost of ownership to keep it in excellent shape? Is this car worth it in your opinion?
@@p0werl0ve don't buy it. Can't recommend. Doors are rusting from under the chrome lines. Front suspension is whacky and the car eats my tires like nothing so bushings need to be replaced. Air conditioning broke, needed a new condenser. Lots of small issues like the plastic inlays on the doors (outside) are almost falling of, handles of sun visors of the rear window break of (cheaply glued together) and crap like that. Electronics are working though. Used the car from 2017 until now and put 75000km on it, now has 135000km. Didn't spend nearly as much as our friend here though. Like 10000 on repairs / tires / maintenance / tax / insurance, 20000 on depreciation (although it's hard to say what the car really is worth) and 10000 on fuel.
Jesus, these prices make my Mercedes dealership costs seem like a bicycle shop! I've owned my E550 for 9 years and incurred maybe $4000 USD in maintenance fees this past decade. I did do a lot of the work myself, and luckily here in the US the Mercedes air-suspension parts are only about $750 front and $300 rear per shock. I had all of them replaced for about the cost of your diagnostic fee alone!
Crazy for the shock absorber and xenon , I had some similar break on a bmw 7series , original set of BMW bulbs did cost 650EUR . Bought some Osram nightbreaker bulbs instead for 150UER. When I replaced i found out that BMW used Osram as their " original bulb". They just change the packing. For the shock absorber it was very expencive to buy new, 1000eur per shock. So i found a company in Poland named" Nagengast" that does overhaul of shock absorbers. Got new ones for 250EUR each... Mecanical this car was pretty solid (diesel) Electronic wise it could have been very costly. My hobby is car electronics , so i was able to sort out that part my self. if not it would have been just insane. Many stupid faults that repair shops wanted to replace stuff , but a lot was possible to fix cheaply with "know how" I still miss it when doing long distance traveling.. sold it at 180K km because at that time i could see more cost coming.. Most stupid task was replacing broke parking light bulb. Had to disassemble the front of the car and remove the lamp to be able to replace broken bulb. replaced with led to make sure never to do it again... would have been expensive to do at a repair shop.....
Hard to say if it is a big number. Remember that in 2005 this car was one of the greatest ones one could ever get. Secondly, it still overwhelmes at least 99% of other cars - comparing its TCO to power and comfort. There was a comment that for the maintenance cost You could buy a new mazda 6. That is true, however how to compare 2.0 or 2.5 L engine to a V12 - and all other fantastic equipment in year 2005. Lastly, the costs come from OEM parts and official retailer services. I myself have a 97 prelude, which is quite expensive to maintain if serviced at a honda retailer. Example given, a new ABS pump is at least 500chf + service. I bought one, used , original , and working - for 10chf + service (another 20chf) :)
Wowsers i have a 2004 phaeton v8 i got it in 2006 used with 26k miles i have currently 161k miles and nothing major ever broke , every button and function works , idk were your getting service at but u can change the oil yourself with full synthentic and a quart of lucas treatment for about 60 bucks or run to a oil change place for 80 bux .
Your experience mirrors mine with a 3-series BMW (320d). Scaled down somewhat on costs (of course), but compared to the salary I was owning likely not far off. I loved the car, really nice to drive... I knew there was going to be repair costs, I knew all the things that go wrong... In fact the car was on its third Turbo already and had an injector+glowplug job just before I bought it. Then the trend continued. A 1000 here, 800 there. Sure, ZAR and not CHF... but my previous car was a Corolla. This cupped-hand-monthly-begging-routine was new to me. Then the second "hedgehog resistor" (climate control fan speed control module) blew just 4 months apart... and that was the impetus to get rid of it as soon as possible. The one item on the list of known issues I didn't get to, and didn't want to, was LCABs (lower control arm bushes)... The funniest experience was buying a new window regulator (because those also break every 2 years or so). Guy in the dealer looks it up, writes down a new part number (which replaces it). He had to do this 4 times in a row...
Some of these things sound totally unfair like the shock initialization. They should have covered that, the hour rate at the dealer should cover problems with their equipment or knowledge.
I did some sort of calculation for my dream car, a Jaguar XJ12 Series III. Luckily I came to my senses before I bought one and I drive now a Mitsubishi Space Star 1.2 CVT with all options. That is one of the best decisions I ever made.
Excellent Video. Since watching your video, I have changed my mind about purchasing a Phaeton. I was seriously considering it. I'm now looking at a Lexus LS430. Thank you for your sacrifice.
Used to own an LS430 before the Phaeton. It's an awesome car and despite being 'only' a 4.3 vs. the Phaeton's 6.0, the performance is the same. The Lexus V8 is much smoother however. Had I not crashed it, I would most likely still own that car. Only downside for me: no AWD.
U made a range rover look reliable,, Correct me if I’m wrong but based on your story it seems like the cost of ownership and maintenance was the same as owning a Bentley flying spur. One of the logic I would use to buy that car would be that you’re getting a Bentley with a lower cost of ownership but from your video that turns out not to be the case
GAINZ Braahh I wants had a fantasy of owning a budget Spur (phaton w12) glad it never came to be. Prob the flying spur more reliable cant get any worse...
GAINZ Braahh if you read my comment you can tell that I am aware that they are on the same platform. But just as a Toyota and Lexus I assumed the common name plate version would be lesser cost of ownership... but lot of franks to run that vw😆
i knew a lady who had a land rover RR brand new from encino ca (usa) dealer it had 2 major engine issues,the third and final one was one day she woke up to major puddle of motor oil underneath car, she called her attorney, attorney called dealership they exchanged it for another brand new one (gifting her some goodies,i believe lifetime oil changes and free extended warranty) ended up selling that one a few years later (and this was still when they were made in U.K)
Oh thanks. Now I’ll have nightmares tonight. I do appreciate sharing the reality owning this dream car. The interior is fantastic. The paint job is stunning.
lol! I followed along very entertaining! I bought a 2003 Ford F-150 with a 4.2 liter v6, and a 5 speed stick new in January 2003. I still have it. Primary vehicle, so its not a weekend hauler. 270,000 miles (435,000km) later. We are still good. purchase: $17,000.00 fuel: $41,293 oil changes: $2,700.00 Tires: $3,200.00 (80k miles, 125k miles, 200k miles) Clutch: $800.00 Slave cylinder: $300.00 rear main seal: $200,00 ( this was the problem, but I replaced the clutch and slave cylinder because we dug into it that far at 190k miles) Shocks at 80k miles $750.00 Front bushings and shocks at 175k miles $1700 (driveway job, with followup at an alignment shop) Brake pads: $200.00 front brake rotors $60.00 (when I did the front end work) Intake plenum isolator bolts, $95.00 (they were originally made with a rubber that didn't care for ethanol) Serpentine belts $50.00 Spark plugs $100.00 vacuum hose spool. $50.00 ( and I still have most of the spool) radiator hoses at 200k miles $85.00 Insurance $13,600.00 grand total of $82,183 $0.304/mile so in total, I suppose I spent more than you... but for admittedly drastically different result. ...and if we are to be fair, the result has not yet been finalized. I'm still loving it! Over 17 years, she just keeps aging like a fine truck.
Bought a very well maintained Phaeton recently. Looked like new until 3 km later when someone ram into me. The shell of the door without paint is 5000 euro here in spain. Insurance will be happy:) I'll keep this awesome car. I passed a rolls royce today and I felt sorry for him even I had a dented rear door.
I thought seriously about buying one of these - for inexpensive luxury motoring! How lucky I was to get something else! Thank you for sharing and my commiserations.
Big part of this costs are for included work hours. Example: light bulb for 3 usd plus 2-3 hours of disassembly / assembly bumper, headlight, airvents and other small parts to chage it, including VAT at the end = a few thousand franks.
I have an Audi A8 W12 from the same era. Its a similar car, similar problems. thankfully the engine and transmission have been bulletproof but Wipers. AC, window blinds, are all currently on the blink. The worst part of these cars is even if you buy a replacement part from Ebay or a parts seller. You still have to go to a certified Audi dealer to get the new part coded to your car or it just wont work.
You should try a ROLLS, Bentley, or Lambo- maybe you can finally bankrupt yourself..... This is Insane. Bless your ❤️. This was like a difunctional relationship that you couldn’t quit.
I thought E38 are solid and reliable ! I dive Lexus LS430 but always have a soft corner for E38 which I feel is one of the prettiest car ever ! People always make E38 to be very reliable !!!
@@EzerEben I bought it used with 192K miles on it. It is a 2005. Any 15 year old car will have it's share of issues. "Reliable" does not mean it is "Brand new". You always look it relative to other Luxury cars that are 15 years old. My front passenger side door lock actuator does not work and the telescoping steering is not working (tilt works). If you are handy with maintenance, you will save a lot. I cannot turn on a wrench and has to get everything done. Changing spark plugs on this one is a lot easier than on a Camry or ES300/350. Brake pads changing is easiest from what I heard/saw. However, the parts are expensive. One of my Mufflers were rusted. Instead of using the genuine Lexus Muffles for $550, I used Walker one for $300. It does not break down often like German cars, but when it does, parts are expensive. Overall, it is a very good car and drives very smooth with minimum road noise. I am older person and like soft smooth ride. Having said that, i somehow misses seeing the long hood and the start of W126 :) Navigation on LS430 sucks! BTW with over 193K miles, Transmission fluid has never been flushed or changed and it shifts perfectly ! All windows, sunroof, seats, A/C , folding side mirrors, CD and Cassatte Tape works. Yes, I use Cassate tapes :)
Hello from Canada. Back in 2012-2013, I owned a 2004 Volkswagen Phaeton W12 Premier Edition in Klavierlack Black for about 9 months before it was written off in a flood. I purchased it at around 180,000km and it was written off at around 215,000km. I must have been lucky because in half the kms that you drove, my cost was around $13,000 CAD ($10000 USD). However, my fuel economy averaged between 19L-26L/100km in the city and 12L - 15L/100km on the highway. A full tank would only give me about 300km of range.
But the biggest cost of all was the CHF 200,000 depreciation which hit the original owner(s). Fancy Xenon lights and the air suspension are virtually certain to need replacing after a few years.
I owned a 1997 Mitsubishi colt from 2007 to 2014. I bought it for 3950 euros. Totally i spent about 500 euros in 7 years. It still was a good car when i sold it. It had a small crack in the exhaust manifold i didnt feel like fixing so i got rid of it. Got 700 euros for it.
Buy the 3.0 diesel. I had the Bentley flying Spur W12 6.0 petrol. So so sore. Enjoying the Phaeton diesel so much more. Or Toyota Land Cruiser, Uber luxury & just wear & tare in parts. Swiss army knife in all situations. My 25 year old Cruiser is not for sale ever.
I hade a Audi A6 2,4 from 2006 with 130000km on the clock. It was fully serviced and had only two prior owners. Is truly was a gem. But oh boy! Everything was expensive and complicated to repair. I was nervous every time i drove it. Never again.
![How expensive was it to own a cheap Porsche 911 (996) Turbo? Total Cost of Ownership [TCO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4pqxtNSYNy8/mqdefault.jpg)
![How expensive was it to own a cheap Porsche 911 (996) Turbo? Total Cost of Ownership [TCO]](/img/tr.png)
The seats weren't massaging you. They were trying to locate your wallet.
reinplat 😂😂😂
Very funny!!!! You must remember it's a German car and basically a Bentley in a VW body...
So since it is German, "we have ways of finding your wallet!"....
😅😅😅😅😅
reinplat pre nup?🤔😂
Comment of the year!!! 😂
The guy at the dealership retired 5 years early because of you.
hahahahahaha
😂😂😂😂😂 he is done for
I think it's expensive not because of phaeton, but because of Switzerland ;)
And the moral of the story is, don't go to man dealers for servicing. They are on commission if the cab fiddle the bill above £1,000. Find a local mechanic and make him your friend.
That said all high end cars, the spare parts are ridiculously expensive. The Phaeton shares the sane platform as a Bentley, do you are paying Bentley prices to be seen, or not seen in a Volkswagen which no one else as ever heard if or know how luxurious they are.
Wrong. Buy a Phaeton and you will learn the hard way.
france or germany is literally right there idk why would anyone pay so much for basic stuff
Exactly and of top he is a typical arrogant swiss
I bought 2008 year phaeton with 415000km on it, it's really nice car If you can do mainteance and other repairs yourself, biggest problem i have had is that Webasto isn't working, i bought used unit with Price of 75€ and other was rearwheel bearing which i already had, and was pretty easy to change. Mine has 3.0tdi v6 which also is reliable unit. Only expensive thing in this car really is that car taxes are 950€/year, but Passat also had 820€ so not that big Price to play for luxury, also full coverage insurance was 900€ on finland.
hhahahahahaha the vw dealership spent 6 hours to diagnose your shock absorbers. man, that dealership must love seeing your bald head coming in every time
Bwahahahhahahaha
Service writer got a woodie every time he came in. Man I’d buy your car used in a heart beat. You replaced everything but the doors
Nothing against what Renault charges at dealerships
Seems he kept that dealership from going bust
They love to give tons of coffee and free wi-fi so joke is on them xD
Cars like this you don't take to the dealership.
i worked at a vw dealer in the service department and our advisors and management referred Phaeton owners to a high end Euro shop in our city. We wouldn't even do servicing on one and our call center would turn Phaeton owners away.
@@brandonfriesen5389 why? They made too much $$$ already?
@@Ilikepie18855 Because you have book time for certain repairs and it takes twice as long sometimes but you only get payed for book time.
@@ast5515 but wasnt he charged over $1000 for 6 hours of diagnostic at VW? Unless it's part of a service plan that was purchased ?
@@Ilikepie18855 They are happy to do diagnostics. But for example replacing a shock takes x hours according to the book and if the bolts don't come off due to rust and it takes them x+2 hours, they can only charge you x hours.
This guy is the reason the VW service team is always in maldives for holidays
Living in Switzerland and getting it repaired at a dealer certainly bumps up the prices! I've had my V10 Phaeton for just over 3 years, had the engine out twice to have the turbos, intercoolers, exhaust, injectors, suspension, discs & pads, etc. replaced and still didn't come to anywhere near that cost! You should move to Poland so you can actually afford to run stupid cars like this ;)
Yeah, high cost of workmanship here either means paying lots of money or you have to work on the car yourself. I chose the first option (bankruptcy). 😢😉
Had the Bentley Flying Spur W12 6.0 petrol.
Every time is drove it,
I cringed that it was a
Phaeton in disguised.
So I got the Phaeton
3.0 diesel.
Now I don't worry about parking & now I'm a common man.
Lol
Love it...
If you want headache free motoring, you just can't beat a Toyota
Land Cruiser. Only wear & tare in parts &
User luxury, but Swiss army knife in any situation. I still have a 25 year old Cruiser and still it impresses me very day.
Any common issues with it, like suspension, transmission and other stuff?
Was looking at a 3.0 TDI V6 from 2009 or up.
@@SacreDro apart from the usual common issues, check for oil leaks. Also the electrics are a major problem with the phaeton. It can be difficult to check though so get a mechanic to connect a laptop and run a diagnostic, but even this might not show up everything.
I can see the pain in this man’s eyes
Well he probably has a good job and it's Switzerland. But yeah still it's so expensive
Funniest comment here!!!
4000 $ for xenon bulbs in switzerland 😂😂😂 that s robery
Thats how it is in swizerland😅
@@MikeRuef94 I would have took a vacation and got it done for 1500 somewhere else lol
yeah it's unbelievable... The bulbs for my bixenon 2009 Volvo V50 cost about 150$ here in Romania and you can change them yourself, or pay another 50-70$ if you want them installed by a specialized electrician in a shop.
@@Noverbia in Belarus serviceman will install new bixenon bulbs for 10$
The wages are also higher in Switzerland...
Audi A4 bought used
Rear brakes: 620$
Oil change: 90$
2 years of ownership and she drives like a dream. 😍
--------------
Honda Civic si 5 year ownership bought new
3 oil changes: 260$☺️
You could have bought my Honda with all the money you spent servicing the phaeton!
Hoovie, eat your heart out.
Luckily Hoovie has the Wizard... If a VW dealer is that expensive in Switzerland I can't even think of a Rolls/Bentley one lmaooo that Turbo R would be a knife through his wallet
The Wizard must have a brother who lives in Switzerland! Lol.
Your story brought back some forgotten memories of my own experiences with expensive German cars. I took delivery of a 1978 733i in November of 1978. I paid 24,500 US dollars, which adjusted for today's dollar is about 100K. I owned the car for a period of 10 years and drove it for approximately 95,000 miles. I no longer remember the details of all the repairs and failures I experienced, during and after the factory warranty expired, but I do remember that my total costs for maintenance and repairs was somewhere between 15 and 20 thousand dollars, even though I did much of the work myself. I sold the car for 6000.00 and never admitted to anyone what a disappointment it was. So yes, despite the fact that my car was new it was a nightmare to own and a complete waste of money.
Sorry for unearthing this repressed memory.
I bet his haircut cost him 35 franks.
35 Franks, are you crazy? I only use premium dog salons!
Harcix You mean polish.
Another brilliant video! Love them! I can definitely tell that you're not an accountant.... no accountant would ever purchase a car that cost them this much lool. You're a man who clearly loves his cars.
13 years and 204k kms on my Toyota. ZERO issues even the leather and interior still look like new
Yeah. Maybe an Avalon, Lexus LS, or trying a Genesis G90 could fill the large comfy sedan gap that the Phaeton left.
QuickQuips Yep mine is a 2007 Toyota Avalon. Very comfortable and highly equipped for it’s time (Heated and ventilated seats, reclining back seats, etc..). I also have a 2011 BMW and a 2012 Infiniti but nothing come close to Toyota in build quality and comfort
ye, but point was you drive a Toyota, nothing wrong with it, and he was driving a W12 Phaeton, which is S class or better.
You don't drive much at the rhythm of my parents you would be at 390k km
@@p0werl0ve theres no way people think phaeton is better than S class.
Title should be: Cost of owning a VW if you only take it to the dealer for everything.
ii think he even go to service when he just needs fill gas xD
This reminds me a lot of DeMuro's experience with his Range Rover and his CarMax warranty.
Range Rover's are money pits and newer land rover's
Pro Tip: just stay at home.
Antiochia ad Taurum more like pro demand nowadays
Pro pro tip. Get a bicycle 🚲 and a Lexus ES hybrid
I bought a 2006 Lexus LS430 about the time you bought the Phaeton fo 30 thousand dollars, with similar mileage. I actually was in the market for a Phaeton and and found out VW dealers had no idea how to work on this car and that is in the San Francisco Bay Area. So as of today I have spent maybe $450.00 on unexpected repairs on this Lexus and can get $13,000.00 if I sell it. The Phaeton plant in Dresden is fabulous though. FYI there is only one Phaeton left in the Bay Area that I can tell.
I have a soft spot in my heart for the Phaeton. It is a really nice looking car with a ton of features. I can see why they were only available for 3 models years in the states. I believe (2004 -2006). Correct me if I am wrong. The high MSRP and the ownership costs.
Most dealerships are a RIPOFF!
We call them stealerships in England I avoid them at all cost
I had a terrible experience with what I thought would be a cheap little Mazda 2. After spending and spending on the peice of crap I ended up trading it in. I just cut my losses other wise it would have cost me more money 🙄
Every* not most.
Just watched this video while considering buying a 20+ year old 2004 VW Phaeton W12 in 2024. Thank you for opening my eyes to what a nightmare of a decision this could have ended up being and saving me all the money and trouble!
That's a cost of a new Toyota GT86 just in maintenance cost alone. Loved the video!!
It costs about $18,250 USD per year to own it. For anyone that’s owned an older exotic, luxury, rare, or a combination of the three types of cars, they will tell you that’s not too bad. Considering whoever bought this new for $120,000 USD (MSRP), and lost close to $100k alone JUST in depreciation, not including maintenance, insurance, fuel, etc.
I would do most of the repairs myself with aftermarket parts. Could probably get that maintenance cost down to about 10k.
DANA GROUP never opened the bonnet on one have you lol.
open the hood for brakes
I'd love to do my own maiintenance but I don't have a convenient work space.
I bought a 2014 Passat in 2015, it was still in factory warranty w/30.000km. During the 5 months of warranty, it broke down 3 or 4 times, added some 5 pages of "service records". Transmission most expensive of all. 7 or 8 months after the warranty expired, transmission failed again. They wanted 3600EU (with 50% discount for being out of warranty for not so long. Repaired at an independent repair shop for 1200. Then water pump failed (1000EU), some electronic module (800EU) , CNG filling valve (400EU), Then tranny mechatronic module failed (1200EU again), it would not go out of "P", so I had to call a city towing service to lift it up and deliver it to repair shop (350EU). AC compressor failed (600EU), alternator failed (380EU), After that transmission failed again, 2 clutches were replaced (800EU). 2 months later tranny control module failed (around 1000EU). Then heating system went crazy. Cold air coming in all the time, was not possible to drive in winter. Attempted to be repaired a few times, no success. It was repaired later at an independent VW specialist, had to take the whole dashboard out, it set me back over 2000EU. CNG opening valve failed, 350EU. Etc etc, all together I drove around 80.000km in 18 months, sold @110.000. VW never again!
Wow !
You are a very rich man !!!! i will stick with my Lexus LS430. I heard horror stories of BMW expenses, this one beats all ! I wonder how much will be maintenance cost for a 2005 A8...
Not anymore after owning the Phaeton. 😥
Good Choice on the LS430 . Had one myself.
I had a 2012 Q7. Great car, but was in the shop every three months needing service. My most expensive visit was almost $5,000, which included tires, and and engine flush.
@@michaelronan7769 I had Hyundai Santa Fe 2012, its pretty big SUV with 3.3L V6. And maintainance cost to me nothing for 2 years. Absolutely reliable car..
@@spacemaster5206 didn't change oil?
Noah Ray it comes with oil from factory you know
Had the Bentley Flying Spur W12 6.0 petrol.
Every time is drove it,
I cringed that it was a
Phaeton in disguised.
So I got the Phaeton
3.0 diesel.
Now I don't worry about parking & now I'm a common man.
Lol
Love it...
If you want headache free motoring, you just can't beat a Toyota
Land Cruiser. Only wear & tare in parts &
User luxury, but Swiss army knife in any situation. I still have a 25 year old Cruiser and still it impresses me very day.
I guess you had a full curly long hair before buying that money pit that has left you with a bald head🤫🤗.🤗🥴
Endless money pit
There is one for sale near me for $6500 in great condition but after doing the conversion it cost this man $29,000 U.S. dollars for maintenance for four years. That's insane
I live in Switzerland too and I am the owner of a 2004 Audi A8 W12 for one year now. It had some issues that needed to be fixed, thats why the car was for sale cheap. New price of the car was also arround 200k, it has a fridge, massage seats all arround, electric seats in the back,... Its a very nice car to drive, you can sleep on the backseat while somebody drives the car at 200-250km/h.
Arround the same amount of things failed on my car, like on your phaeton. But I fixed all of them myself, what made it much cheaper. The car will be sold soon, because it uses way too much fuel.
My costs after one year and 11300km:
Fuel 3000CHF
oil change 100CHF
Insurance 1200CHF
Tax 1100CHF
Tickets for Speeding and parking 80CHF
Spare Parts 450 CHF
Tires 1200 CHF
Maintenance 1300 CHF
Cost of Ownership +- 8500CHF
Purchase price 6000.-
sale price +- 8000.- (online value arround 10000CHF, insurance value 9500.-, realistic price is lower due to low demand)
Depriciation (actually attribution, as the car is worth more) -2000.-
TCO 6500CHF
Cost per Year 6500CHF
Cost per km 0.57 CHF (still very high)
Costs in Detail
www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht/1037619.html
Things that failed:
exhaust gas leak (not fixed yet)
4x front drive shaft joints (1 or 2 were actually broken, I replaced all 4) 200CHF
front brake pads 70CHF
New winter tires 18" 235/50 Goodyear 600.-
New summer tires 19" 255/40 Pirelli 600.-
Alternator (started to leak coolant) 400.-
Valve cover gaskets, air mass meters, spark plugs 600.-
this video made W12 Phaeton prices in Switzerland drop dramatically
OMFG Switzerland is so expensive :) 90 franks for wheel change?? You can do it 4 times for that price a little bit more to the east in Europe. Upper control arm change 1400?? Wow
But you also earn way more in Switzerland
So what does he mean when he says “wheel change”? That sounds like changing out one wheel (damaged?) for another? I guess he means tire rotation, possibly with rebalancing?
@@cbpitt01 I believe he meant just to take one set of wheels off, and put on another set with season tyres.
Cyraxas007, I didn’t even think of that. Where I live, we have snow (1”-4”) about two times per season, so hardly anyone bothers to use winter tires.
We regularly buy used cars for 1400 in Serbia and person is considered well situated if he/she can buy car that costs a couple of thousand € :)
*puts on sunglasses and makes wild hand gestures* endless money pit!
"Rev Up Your Phaetons"....!!!
You forgot to mention the Celica.
@@paulwhite8024 And the $5000 fancy scan tools.
... that's what happens when you buy German instead of buying Toyota. Ha Ha Ha Ha. (queue donkey face)
OMG. I so wanted one of those. Here in the States, a used one sells for maybe $5000 USD. Now I have an idea why they sell for so little. But they were absolutely beautiful cars for the time and could stand proudly next to other German luxury cars.
I’ve had an 04 v8 since 2011. Other than the impossible alignment and a few batteries it’s been pretty good. Alone cheaper than our 3 series.
Still have it, how many km does it have now?
Nice to see that the engine was generally okay though, I was a little surprised
Thanks for the great vid! Some reference here...
I bought an S 500 Lang (220 chassis, last year model = 2005) 3 years ago, driven then about 145k. It now has 215k and I have spent about 3000€ on service & maintenance at a specialist workshop (including 3-4 services plus new pads & discs rear {brakes are the only thing I did myself} + new battery + oil change on 7G-Tronic). Average fuel consumption 10.8 per 100km and it goes 0-100km/h in 6.3sec.
I do think the W12 Phaeton is nicer but I heavily suggest to go for a Merc instead if you're not loaded. I paid around 10k€ for mine in Germany + around 3k€ taxes when I brought it to Finland. Fantastic value and the car has spent zero nights at a workshop = drivable every single day!
~ENDLESS MONEYPIT~
as Scotty says
No, Endless Endless Moneypit
....as they age... 😁🤣
Only stoopid people buy them. Ha....ha....ha....(grinning hyena meme).
@TheOerdin I know. That's why I'd only get a japanese or korean one.
I had a 1980 VW Rabbit, when I was a teen in 1986.
1. Ballast resistor wire
2. Fuel pump relay
4. Fuel Pump
5. Alternator
6. Valve body in transmission
7. Starter
8. Fuel injectors
9. Fuel Distributor
10. Fuse Block
11. Front Axles with inner & outer CV joints
12 . Another starter,
13 Heat Shield for starter
14 Speedometer stopped working
15 Water pump started leaking , so I just sold the thing for $150.00
16 . Radiator
17. Ballast Resistor. that control blower.
.
No! I will NEVER buy another VW.
When I watch a game show and someone wins a VW, I shout sell it IMMEDIATELY !
My nextdoor neighbor accused me of making love to the car because I was underneath it so often.
Almost forgot
18 Muffler,
19 Catalytic Converter clogged , so that was replaced.
I’ve had a Mercedes S Class and a BMW 5 Series as well as two Volvos in the past. The Volvos weren’t nearly as costly to own as the Mercedes or BMW but you might want to try a Lexus. Though not quite as tightly wound a sport sedan they are excellent as luxury sedans s and there is a rewarding value to that and all that I can tell you is that the ultimate luxury is a car that works every day, never leaves you stranded ever, and that you don’t have to think about. You never go to bed at night with a knot in your stomach upset that your car is driving you to distraction instead of your destination. The greatest luxury is peace of mind. So far only two batteries a set of tires a set of brakes in nine years of ownership. The dealership gives me a choice of picking my car up and dropping off a loaner car at my home for maintenance service and bring it back later to me at work or I can go to the dealership. If I go to the dealership they have an espresso bar, stenographers and neck massagers. Life doesn’t get much better.
I thought that my S Class would have been my worst gold digger car but the BMW was even worse.
Yeah, tell me about BMWs... How many turbos did you change? I honestly think the turbo is the worst designed part in a BMW.
What Lexus model did you have?
@@verliebt3465 I have a 2015 RX350 and a 2011 ES350
@@LlyleHunter thanks, i was thinking about buying an Rx and it's good to know they give this kind of great service even for customers who buy cheaper models not just the "flagship " models.
@@LlyleHunter I drive a 2005 LS430 with 192K miles and original Engine and Transmission. the Transmission fluid has not been changed even once !
That's quite a bit of money to spend on a used car, good analysis.
I purchased a brand new Chrysler Sebring in 2009 and 264,000 miles (425,000km) later, I'm still driving it. My entire car ownership costs less than what you paid in repairs alone. Yikes!
Very informative and articulated story.
I have to say the interior looks so seductive.
If you had done a PRE-PURCHASE VW dealer inspection report (they cost $AUD900 here in Australia) how many of those faults would have been brought to your attention ie: steering idler arms, brake rotors etc.?
The dealerships here have taken to videoing the car during service particularly the underneath showing you and commenting about tyres, brake linings & rotors etc and sending that videoclip to you before you collect the car, in case you want to talk to the service person before you come to collect the car.
Perhaps the dealers are learning shocking the customer is bad for business.
Just so you know, just hearing you talk thru the history with occasional still pictures keep me captivated with the details, including the slowly released solution to the flickering lights. Well done.such presentations of potential dry data like that, and keeping our interest, is a special skill.
You have that skill
Thank you
Thanks for the kind words!
I actually knew the brakes were due before buying the car. Bought the car of a private seller who was pretty upfront about everything. It was factored in the purchase price. The other things could not have been caught by a PPI as they only came up much later. At the time of purchase the car was in great shape. It had been under extended warranty until a month after I bought it and the previous owner was quite meticulous (He even took the car to Phaeton owners gatherings around Europe). I actually bought a _good_ example of a W12 Phaeton. A bad one would have gotten even more expensive (if that is even imaginable).
It's a VW.... Even if it were perfect when delivered, things would've started breaking in short order.
While on a skiing vacation in Switzerland a few years ago with my wife, she reversed slowly into another car and put a hairline crack in the other car's grill. The owner (lady who was renting our apartment to us) agreed that the small grill piece affected could be swapped out if we went to the local dealer to get it. Long story short, after 4 visits to the dealer and 3 days later with loads of paperwork, we were given the piece. I slotted it into place in 3 minutes. Basically, you cannot buy a piece from a dealer unless you are the proven owner of the same model. Being Switzerland, it was pricey.
I had my first Phaeton a 2003 for 8 years and it cost me a window regulator, a couple of batteries, tyres, breaks and general servicing, that’s about it. My son has it now and it’s cost a bit more over the last 2 years with reconditioning the transmission, an aircon pump, alternator and pulleys not because it needed them but as the bumper was off and the car was stripped out made sense to do it then, oh and a couple of new headlight lamps for the same reason. The car is now 17 years old and has about 120000 miles on the clock. It runs beautifully drives almost as well as my 2014 phaeton so I’ve been very pleased with it and it been quite cheap over the 10 years and very reliable. So it’s probably been the best car I’ve ever owned. Even better that my Vauxhall Senator 24v although not as fun to drive. I think the phaeton is a bargain second hand luxury car, but it’s best to do any major work yourself or via a good independent garage as VW can be awful at times and the costs horrendously high. Note between getting my second Phaeton I had a 2010 Mercedes S-Class. I had it for a year and I hated it. The add blu system failed twice then the up stream and down stream Nox sensors failed, then the air suspension collapsed at the rear, this then messed up the front. Horrible drive, noisy engine and cost me about £5000 over the year. Now that’s a car that can cost you an absolute fortune. Glad to see the back of it.
The best way to own a car like this is is to get one with a manufacturer backed warranty. I have a BMW insured warranty on my 760. It almost 2k a year however its paid for itself many times over.
My rule of thumb is no warranty no dealer.
1 chf / km is still cheaper than taxi, plus if you go by taxi you probably consume alcohol for that money ... and yet it's a w12 ... so it's worth it!!
Except with a taxi you don't spend time going to and from the service center. Even if you get a loaner, which you probably won't everytime, you still lose a lot of time.
I am now 66 years old, we grew up 6 children and I had never money for such an expensive car. The most expensive car we bought was about 12,500 DM approximately 6,300 Euros and I drove it over 460,000 km in miles about 300,000 miles and the cheapest was 250 DM approx. 125 € this one was a Mercedes 220D whom no one maintained properly. With my former Audi A3 TDI I made only 384,000 km (about 250,000 miles) this had 319,000 km (about 200,000 miles) on the speedometer and I had to junk it with 704,655 km on board, I bought this car for 1,900 € but I overturned with it on the motorway and totalled it. The car I drive now an Audi A3 pump injector Diesel I bought with 295,000 km on board and it has now about 452,000 km (approximately 275,000 miles). I do all the repairs alone trying to avoid any repair shop. May the Lord bless and keep you All and have a relaxing Weekend.😊(Consumption for these Diesels was between 3,6 till 4,6 litres per 100 km (approximately 60 Miles)
The list of service doesn't really look that bad at all. A DIYer could have fixed those things pretty easily and inexpensively. Now if the starter or alternator had went out on that W12, that would have been a real nightmare (drivetrain has to be dropped out to replace).
I bought an Audi 8 years old, owned it for 8 years, and spent the same money again on maintenance, covering only 13K miles. I feel your pain.
You have such a great sense of humor! I still cry when I think about cost of ownership.
I‘m owning a 2008 Phaeton for 5 years and it‘s a great car!
Yeah great. For mechanics.
apachelives but it's worth it. The perfect luxury car!
NAT NAT,
The car does seem great.
Have you done an estimated cost of ownership over the last 5 years? What kind of engine and how many miles are on it?
Justin Aeneas Hi, I‘m from Austria and my Phaeton has the 3.0tdi Diesel motor with 233hp, which isn‘t available in US.
I bought it with 146K kilometer for 19K Euro (~21 K USD) and drove 70K kilometer until now. I did two services for 500 USD each, a wheel bearing for 400 USD and this year a transmission flush (for protection) for 660 USD and new steering joints and breakpads at the front for 900 USD.
@@lordnat1968 , thank you sir!
I love the Phaeton, but VW seems to have a real issue with suppliers. The car uses more individual components than most, but the quality of the parts seems to be a problem.
That's what happens when you award the lowest bidder the contracts for buy-parts...
Thanks for the insight on the Phaeton they look luxurious and they sell on average for 9k U.S. in 2020. I was tempted ... I’ll pass on them ;)
Dirt cheap if you go to a regular mechanic.
The problem if you take any car to a dealership the cost is going to be hi never take a car to the dealership no matter what type of car it is that's just 101 car service a good independent mechanic who know his stuff simple
Sure, but here in Switzerland a good Indy easily costs 100+ CHF/USD an hour. So, unless you do the work yourself it's going to be expensive. And even if you DIY your time also has value.
@@swisscarguy Germany is right around the corner no matter where you live in switzerland (50 - 70 km). You could have saved half of the money just by spending 1 hour drive to drop it off in germany. And man, please spend some more time in the internet. The flickering of the xenon lights is a common problem who could have been solved easily. Who starts to replace the whole control unit before trying new light bulbs which cost only 40 Euros each?
No offense, I own the diesel version of the phaeton since three years now and I know how many problems this car makes :D
@@123Bliff time for you to sale or trash it
@@stevejohnson4105 Due to the ban of old diesel´s in bigger cities recently, the car isn´t worth any money. Now I have to ride it till the end (or till one of the windshield wiper brakes ;))
Welp if it makes you feel any better I bought a $400 Subaru with 300k on the clock off the internet sight unseen, $150 in parts and it was on the road. 3 years later all i have done since is fluids and a radiator + hoses. Its my daily beater. Never broke down nothing else had been changed not even tyres brakes pads - all still good.
generally a good rule of thumb is the maintenance costs remain proportionate to the retail price of the car when new, even while the market value depreciates. There are exceptions but this is the most likely scenario.
An exception to this rule would for example be a Honda NSX (1990-2005); which is a car that is quite reliable and is fun to drive.
I have a 2004 Phaeton with a W12. I've had it for a little over 2 years and have not spent the kind of money you're talking about. Brakes, all around, cost me about $800CDN. Any/all other servicing (that I couldn't do myself) has been quite reasonable. Servicing has not been done at a VW dealership. Couldn't afford that. LOL.
This has not been my experience during two years of ownership of a 2005 Phaeton, even while doing some driving everyday on Texas dirt roads. I am considering upgrading to a newer car if I could afford it. Sounds like owning an auto repair shop in Switzerland would be a good way to increase my income. What area do you live in?
The Zurich area. Good mechanics are always welcome, but hardly ever cheap.
But is it a W12?
@@DroTheWhale It is V8 4 seater. The power difference between the W12 and V8 makes no sense on roads that do not have autobahn speeds, and who needs a W12 that requires doing an engine out for even simple repairs like replacing the starter? Getting ready to sell it. Great car, but not realistic for the isolated places I live at in Texas and Colorado.
I feel you. But this also explains why this hasn’t been your experience is my point lol
@@DroTheWhale
Had the Bentley Flying Spur W12 6.0 petrol.
Every time is drove it,
I cringed that it was a
Phaeton in disguised.
So I got the Phaeton
3.0 diesel.
Now I don't worry about parking & now I'm a common man.
Lol
Love it...
If you want headache free motoring, you just can't beat a Toyota
Land Cruiser. Only wear & tear in parts &
Uber luxury, but Swiss army knife in any situation. I still have a 25 year old Cruiser and still it impresses me very day.
Thank You So Much Swiss Review for the lesson! You are very entertaining too! Wow , didn't know VW is that expensive to maintain! 🤓
"What?!?!" Very nice haha. I own a V6 Diesel Paheton (2009), it has done well so far, but they rip you off on parts. Only for the front rotors (brake) VW wanted 550€s. Bought front AND rear rotor AND pads for 440€ (Brembo!) and had them replaced by a friend. VW wanted around 2500 for this (you could go to any shop instead). Now the trunk stopped working :( My advice anyway: Don't get the big engines. Everything is much more expensive, just fuel and such and if anything fails its more expensive then with the base engines. Second advice: go for all season tires if possible (depending on the climate region you live in) saves you money for switching the wheels all the time. I drive Bridgestone wheater control, they work pretty good
have you had it for a long time and do you related to all these problems? I see the workaround is using aftermarket parts and not use the VW shop. How about suspension, electronics, etc. On a 3.0 TDI I suppose you again have to remove the bumper and headlights to replace a xenon bulb. What is your assessment of the car and cost of ownership to keep it in excellent shape? Is this car worth it in your opinion?
@@p0werl0ve don't buy it. Can't recommend. Doors are rusting from under the chrome lines. Front suspension is whacky and the car eats my tires like nothing so bushings need to be replaced. Air conditioning broke, needed a new condenser. Lots of small issues like the plastic inlays on the doors (outside) are almost falling of, handles of sun visors of the rear window break of (cheaply glued together) and crap like that. Electronics are working though. Used the car from 2017 until now and put 75000km on it, now has 135000km. Didn't spend nearly as much as our friend here though. Like 10000 on repairs / tires / maintenance / tax / insurance, 20000 on depreciation (although it's hard to say what the car really is worth) and 10000 on fuel.
Jesus, these prices make my Mercedes dealership costs seem like a bicycle shop! I've owned my E550 for 9 years and incurred maybe $4000 USD in maintenance fees this past decade. I did do a lot of the work myself, and luckily here in the US the Mercedes air-suspension parts are only about $750 front and $300 rear per shock. I had all of them replaced for about the cost of your diagnostic fee alone!
Ian Derzsi Mercedes is king💪
tbh some of those "repairs" weren't really needed. Still expensive regardless!
Crazy for the shock absorber and xenon , I had some similar break on a bmw 7series , original set of BMW bulbs did cost 650EUR . Bought some Osram nightbreaker bulbs instead for 150UER. When I replaced i found out that BMW used Osram as their " original bulb". They just change the packing. For the shock absorber it was very expencive to buy new, 1000eur per shock. So i found a company in Poland named" Nagengast" that does overhaul of shock absorbers. Got new ones for 250EUR each... Mecanical this car was pretty solid (diesel) Electronic wise it could have been very costly. My hobby is car electronics , so i was able to sort out that part my self. if not it would have been just insane. Many stupid faults that repair shops wanted to replace stuff , but a lot was possible to fix cheaply with "know how" I still miss it when doing long distance traveling.. sold it at 180K km because at that time i could see more cost coming.. Most stupid task was replacing broke parking light bulb. Had to disassemble the front of the car and remove the lamp to be able to replace broken bulb. replaced with led to make sure never to do it again... would have been expensive to do at a repair shop.....
"if your lights flicker, just ignore it, deal with it, get rid of the car" L O L
Hard to say if it is a big number. Remember that in 2005 this car was one of the greatest ones one could ever get. Secondly, it still overwhelmes at least 99% of other cars - comparing its TCO to power and comfort. There was a comment that for the maintenance cost You could buy a new mazda 6. That is true, however how to compare 2.0 or 2.5 L engine to a V12 - and all other fantastic equipment in year 2005. Lastly, the costs come from OEM parts and official retailer services. I myself have a 97 prelude, which is quite expensive to maintain if serviced at a honda retailer. Example given, a new ABS pump is at least 500chf + service. I bought one, used , original , and working - for 10chf + service (another 20chf) :)
You my friend, are going straight to heaven!
Wowsers i have a 2004 phaeton v8 i got it in 2006 used with 26k miles i have currently 161k miles and nothing major ever broke , every button and function works , idk were your getting service at but u can change the oil yourself with full synthentic and a quart of lucas treatment for about 60 bucks or run to a oil change place for 80 bux .
Great video, love the Phaeton. 3.0 TDI is probably the cheapest one to run :D
Your experience mirrors mine with a 3-series BMW (320d). Scaled down somewhat on costs (of course), but compared to the salary I was owning likely not far off. I loved the car, really nice to drive... I knew there was going to be repair costs, I knew all the things that go wrong... In fact the car was on its third Turbo already and had an injector+glowplug job just before I bought it. Then the trend continued. A 1000 here, 800 there. Sure, ZAR and not CHF... but my previous car was a Corolla. This cupped-hand-monthly-begging-routine was new to me. Then the second "hedgehog resistor" (climate control fan speed control module) blew just 4 months apart... and that was the impetus to get rid of it as soon as possible. The one item on the list of known issues I didn't get to, and didn't want to, was LCABs (lower control arm bushes)...
The funniest experience was buying a new window regulator (because those also break every 2 years or so). Guy in the dealer looks it up, writes down a new part number (which replaces it). He had to do this 4 times in a row...
Some of these things sound totally unfair like the shock initialization. They should have covered that, the hour rate at the dealer should cover problems with their equipment or knowledge.
I did some sort of calculation for my dream car, a Jaguar XJ12 Series III. Luckily I came to my senses before I bought one and I drive now a Mitsubishi Space Star 1.2 CVT with all options. That is one of the best decisions I ever made.
Calling a Mitsubishi 1.2 with a CVT a best decision is just wrong 😁
Great video, this mirrors what has happened to my friends who purchased VW products new, even under warranty.
This car on its own has contributed a significant amount to global warming!
Excellent Video. Since watching your video, I have changed my mind about purchasing a Phaeton. I was seriously considering it. I'm now looking at a Lexus LS430. Thank you for your sacrifice.
Used to own an LS430 before the Phaeton. It's an awesome car and despite being 'only' a 4.3 vs. the Phaeton's 6.0, the performance is the same. The Lexus V8 is much smoother however. Had I not crashed it, I would most likely still own that car. Only downside for me: no AWD.
U made a range rover look reliable,,
Correct me if I’m wrong but based on your story it seems like the cost of ownership and maintenance was the same as owning a Bentley flying spur. One of the logic I would use to buy that car would be that you’re getting a Bentley with a lower cost of ownership but from your video that turns out not to be the case
Maybe because Bentley flying spur and phaeton shares the same platform basically the same car with different emblems
GAINZ Braahh I wants had a fantasy of owning a budget Spur (phaton w12) glad it never came to be. Prob the flying spur more reliable cant get any worse...
GAINZ Braahh if you read my comment you can tell that I am aware that they are on the same platform. But just as a Toyota and Lexus I assumed the common name plate version would be lesser cost of ownership... but lot of franks to run that vw😆
But that thing is literally a Bentley Flying Spur man. The technology is in sane!
i knew a lady who had a land rover RR brand new from encino ca (usa) dealer it had 2 major engine issues,the third and final one was one day she woke up to major puddle of motor oil underneath car, she called her attorney, attorney called dealership they exchanged it for another brand new one (gifting her some goodies,i believe lifetime oil changes and free extended warranty) ended up selling that one a few years later (and this was still when they were made in U.K)
Oh thanks. Now I’ll have nightmares tonight. I do appreciate sharing the reality owning this dream car. The interior is fantastic. The paint job is stunning.
You could have taken the car to a local trusted mechanic and spent way less than thant.
lol! I followed along very entertaining!
I bought a 2003 Ford F-150 with a 4.2 liter v6, and a 5 speed stick new in January 2003. I still have it. Primary vehicle, so its not a weekend hauler. 270,000 miles (435,000km) later. We are still good.
purchase: $17,000.00
fuel: $41,293
oil changes: $2,700.00
Tires: $3,200.00 (80k miles, 125k miles, 200k miles)
Clutch: $800.00
Slave cylinder: $300.00
rear main seal: $200,00 ( this was the problem, but I replaced the clutch and slave cylinder because we dug into it that far at 190k miles)
Shocks at 80k miles $750.00
Front bushings and shocks at 175k miles $1700 (driveway job, with followup at an alignment shop)
Brake pads: $200.00
front brake rotors $60.00 (when I did the front end work)
Intake plenum isolator bolts, $95.00 (they were originally made with a rubber that didn't care for ethanol)
Serpentine belts $50.00
Spark plugs $100.00
vacuum hose spool. $50.00 ( and I still have most of the spool)
radiator hoses at 200k miles $85.00
Insurance $13,600.00
grand total of $82,183
$0.304/mile
so in total, I suppose I spent more than you... but for admittedly drastically different result.
...and if we are to be fair, the result has not yet been finalized. I'm still loving it! Over 17 years, she just keeps aging like a fine truck.
You cost per mile is waaaay lower than mine. You did good!
Finland is expensive but wow.. That’s not completely the cars fault those prices are hideous
Bought a very well maintained Phaeton recently. Looked like new until 3 km later when someone ram into me. The shell of the door without paint is 5000 euro here in spain. Insurance will be happy:) I'll keep this awesome car. I passed a rolls royce today and I felt sorry for him even I had a dented rear door.
How is the car now, I am looking at a 30 TDI 2009 and up.
So the rumours about that car are true....RIP your bank account.
Thanks, it's slowly recovering.
I thought seriously about buying one of these - for inexpensive luxury motoring! How lucky I was to get something else! Thank you for sharing and my commiserations.
1 swissfranc is about 1 euro. He spent only in repairs about as much as a brand new mazda 6
can you convert to US Dollar
Big part of this costs are for included work hours. Example: light bulb for 3 usd plus 2-3 hours of disassembly / assembly bumper, headlight, airvents and other small parts to chage it, including VAT at the end = a few thousand franks.
All that money just to keep a car that looks like an oversized Passat. It's just a very expensive taxi!
I have an Audi A8 W12 from the same era. Its a similar car, similar problems. thankfully the engine and transmission have been bulletproof but Wipers. AC, window blinds, are all currently on the blink. The worst part of these cars is even if you buy a replacement part from Ebay or a parts seller. You still have to go to a certified Audi dealer to get the new part coded to your car or it just wont work.
You should try a ROLLS, Bentley, or Lambo- maybe you can finally bankrupt yourself..... This is Insane. Bless your ❤️. This was like a difunctional relationship that you couldn’t quit.
A very good and honest review. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I had an 2001 E38 BMW 740il that was just as expensive and frustrating to own.
I thought E38 are solid and reliable ! I dive Lexus LS430 but always have a soft corner for E38 which I feel is one of the prettiest car ever ! People always make E38 to be very reliable !!!
@@nasarazam , you sir have one of the most reliable cars ever made. I am thinking of getting one. How has it worked for you?
@@EzerEben I bought it used with 192K miles on it. It is a 2005. Any 15 year old car will have it's share of issues. "Reliable" does not mean it is "Brand new". You always look it relative to other Luxury cars that are 15 years old. My front passenger side door lock actuator does not work and the telescoping steering is not working (tilt works). If you are handy with maintenance, you will save a lot. I cannot turn on a wrench and has to get everything done. Changing spark plugs on this one is a lot easier than on a Camry or ES300/350. Brake pads changing is easiest from what I heard/saw. However, the parts are expensive. One of my Mufflers were rusted. Instead of using the genuine Lexus Muffles for $550, I used Walker one for $300. It does not break down often like German cars, but when it does, parts are expensive. Overall, it is a very good car and drives very smooth with minimum road noise. I am older person and like soft smooth ride. Having said that, i somehow misses seeing the long hood and the start of W126 :)
Navigation on LS430 sucks! BTW with over 193K miles, Transmission fluid has never been flushed or changed and it shifts perfectly ! All windows, sunroof, seats, A/C , folding side mirrors, CD and Cassatte Tape works. Yes, I use Cassate tapes :)
@@nasarazam , thank you for the impressive, detailed response. I'm interested more in the car now and will looks for some to test drive.
Hello from Canada. Back in 2012-2013, I owned a 2004 Volkswagen Phaeton W12 Premier Edition in Klavierlack Black for about 9 months before it was written off in a flood. I purchased it at around 180,000km and it was written off at around 215,000km. I must have been lucky because in half the kms that you drove, my cost was around $13,000 CAD ($10000 USD). However, my fuel economy averaged between 19L-26L/100km in the city and 12L - 15L/100km on the highway. A full tank would only give me about 300km of range.
My dude, you bought a VW Phaeton basically on Halloween...
But the biggest cost of all was the CHF 200,000 depreciation which hit the original owner(s). Fancy Xenon lights and the air suspension are virtually certain to need replacing after a few years.
Are you sure that you were going to service department???? Not to swiss banker for repairs?
I owned a 1997 Mitsubishi colt from 2007 to 2014.
I bought it for 3950 euros.
Totally i spent about 500 euros in 7 years.
It still was a good car when i sold it.
It had a small crack in the exhaust manifold i didnt feel like fixing so i got rid of it.
Got 700 euros for it.
I have owned 9 phaetons from 2010 and I don’t think that I spent more then 8000$ on all 9 in repairs ( some of the repairs were made by me)
It’s very comfortable and if you can repair it yourself is ok you can find second hand parts
Yeah I love Volkswagen‘s but I will never own a phaeton and you showed me many reasons why.
Buy the 3.0 diesel.
I had the Bentley flying Spur W12 6.0 petrol.
So so sore.
Enjoying the Phaeton diesel so much more.
Or Toyota Land Cruiser,
Uber luxury & just wear & tare in parts.
Swiss army knife in all situations. My 25 year old Cruiser is not for sale ever.
Sees video *laughs in Toyota*
I hade a Audi A6 2,4 from 2006 with 130000km on the clock. It was fully serviced and had only two prior owners. Is truly was a gem. But oh boy! Everything was expensive and complicated to repair. I was nervous every time i drove it. Never again.
Makes my CL 55 AMG Kompressor deserve a financial award for deal of the decade ;)