The Reason Rocky Marciano never faced Nino Valdes: Archie Moore beats Nino Valdes I in Color
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- Опубликовано: 17 дек 2022
- Archie Moore vs. Nino Valdes (1st meeting) - 1953-03-11
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🎥 Footage Credit: MyDeuxSense
Archie Moore W 10 Nino Valdes I
• Archie Moore W 10 Nino...
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I know this isnt the fight for the mandatory fight to fight against Marciano, but in the second fight it was but there is no footage of that. it was similar probably. More of Nino Valdes will follow
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Archie is controlling Valdes by his elbows, hes using his own elbows to move and parry Valdez on the inside then throw a combination upstairs. He later told George how to control an opponent with pushing and parrying at their elbows and shoulders, set them up in the exact position you want before you punch,
Marciano retired early primarily because he knew he needed to fight more than two great opponents per year in order to keep his skills sharp, but he already cleared out his division. It's a shame that Valdes, Hurricane Jackson and other great heavyweights from the mid-to-late '50s weren't able to challenge him and keep him in the game long enough for Floyd Patterson, Ingo, Liston, pime Ali and other '60s fighters to get their crack at him. Those fights that never happened could have revitalized the sport beyond what we can even imagine.
Marciano of course would have to keep evolving his style in order to keep up as he got older. He may not have been able to remain as great without relying on his insane training regimen and stamina. But he could have offset the effects of aging if he kept learning new skills and kept getting gradually more scientific, which would have been fascinating to see. He probably never would have lost his overall strength and punching power.
I think an eventual fight between Marciano and Liston might have been the greatest in history, regardless of who would win. Prime Ali would have been an even more interesting opponent for Marciano, since their styles were so different.
My understanding is his back was giving him problems and it was becoming harder to train hard.
I don't think fighting more would have fixed that.
It's true that he did have a bad lower back. It was from an injury he had in childhood. He found ways to train around it and to even fight with it. Surely it was an incentive to retire, along with discovering that his manager was swindling him out of a lot of money. But the bigger issue was that he knew he needed great opponents at least every few months, otherwise he'd end up going out as tragically as the previous great champions, and he didn't want to do that to his legacy.
Marciano would of had to wait until 58 for a Liston fight at the earliest. I thin with the Rock's style and age (Hitting almost 35), someone was going to take him down before Liston became a top contender.
@@greek1237 Yes, good point. Usually when boxers improve with age, it's because they rely less on their physicality, and physicality was the main ingredient to Rocky's success. The only way for him to thrive as an old man in the ring would be if he could either evolve a totally different style or continue his insane training regimen as if he were Jack LaLane.
Or perhaps do a bit of both? He really was becoming more skilled and accurate before he got rusty from running out of frequent challengers. He started out his career with wild haymakers, but eventually made his left hook and his upper cut in both hands just as deadly, and was making all of them land more often. He could have kept improving his techniques.
I often fantasize about what could have happened if Joe Louis, Lee Savold, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, and Archie Moore could have taught Rocky some of their wisdom! 😅
They say a boxer's punching power is the last thing to go. Competitive bodybuilders and powerlifters eventually stop gaining size and strength, but boxers probably don't lose their punch. All of these athletes continue to improve their endurance for many years, and Rocky really enjoyed his training. But how long can anyone hold on to their stamina? And then there's the question of timing, reflexes and speed, which probably suffer the most with age.
We'll never know for sure, but I do think it's all worth thinking about. And we'll probably never again see a heavyweight boxer retire with so many wins, unless there's a miraculous revolution in the sport!
No? Because he was already past his prime
Archie had four arms. Dangerous, well rounded, unprecdictable. Great video👍🏻💯
It really is not Marciano's fault that the old masters like Moore or Walcott or Charles where beating these young up and coming contenders. Moore pretty much clean out the division to get his shot.
Indeed! The old mongoose did all the heavy lifting and cleaned out the division for Rocky. Maybe if Moore had only fought 2 fights per year like Rocky and spent 6 months in training camp preparing for his fight against Marciano he would've won.
@@richardmilliken8705 Oddly it was taxes that force Rocky's hand at 2 fights year, being the heavyweight champ, he was going to get paid the highest. taxes where at the highest at the time in the 50's, and if he made more than 2 or so defenses, Rocky would be paying more in taxes, than getting money back.
@@greek1237 Rocky was already in the top income tax bracket before he became the Heavyweight Champion. Al Weill's decision to have Rocky only fight two fights per year had to do with Marciano getting maximum recovery after each fight and 6 months of intense training gave Rocky the edge in conditioning over his opponents.
It didn't matter whether Rocky fought 1 fight or 8 fights per year, he was still going to be paying more in taxes than he was receiving in adjustable income.
Earl Walls of Canada was considered as an opponent but when that offer was taken back Walls decided to retire.
I wonder if the foreign press felt Moore had won? Outsiders frequently lost close decisions in American rings.
Good question. From the film it looks dominant. Yet i would have liked to see rocky face valdez as well
Rocky should've fought 2 more times. Beating Valdes and one more, maybe Hurricane or a young Patterson, and then retire. A young jumping fast Floyd would've been tough but. Floyd had a glass chin so Marciano KO 6
Floyd patterson vs marciano would have been interesting. I think patterson could have started leading on points maybe even dropping marciano but ultimatly i guess marciano would stop him. Still would have been nice to see marciano fight on. He would have but he wanted to get out of his contract
@@LegendsofBoxinginColor he promised his wife too.... And his lower back was bothering him.... "2 or 3 more good fights left in me...".... And probably paranoid about keeping the ZERO..... he should have fought twice more.... 32 is too young to retire. He should've done it in honor of Jersey Joe and Archie and Joe Louis, all of whom had the balls to fight at 37/38/39.... Patterson had that leaping left hook that KOed Archie in the Fall of '56. Marciano may have gotten caught with it.... Floyd was way faster and younger. Like 11 years younger!!! But Rocky gets up.... Can't be KOed!!! And pounds out Patterson by the 8th round, max.
@@3rdStoneObliterum also good points
@@3rdStoneObliterum Like at other swarmers, Dempsey shot at 32, Tyson shot at 32, Frazier shot at 32, 32 was the right time for a swarmer to get out. They really do not last long at the top.
@@greek1237 Marciano was not a 'swarmer', he was a pressure fighter.
I can't see Marciano having much trouble against Valdes, even though Nino was a big, strong, willing opponent. As for him retiring too early, it was probably just at the right moment. Rocky was supposedly serious about coming back to fight Johansson, but when Floyd scored a terrific KO in the second Ingo bout, he gave up on the idea. Rocky-Floyd in '55 or 56 would be one thing, but Floyd of 1960-61 would have been too fast for an aging Rocky.
Valdez got destroyed by Eddie Machen I don't think Rock would have any problems with him
Rocco would destroy patterson and Valdez keep dreamin
Sorry, this does not hold up to scrutiny. Valdes was No. 1 contender for two years prior to their later fight,--which took place only a few days. before Rocky gave a title shot to the visibly out-of-shape Don Cockell. And where Valdes had beaten Charles, who got two shots at Marciano, Cockell had lost to a middleweight. Marciano's excellent biographer Mike Stanton says Weill and Marciano didn't want a tough fight with a Valdes or a Moore--and they got a really soft touch in Cockell. Valdes had to stay active and eventually lost one, all the while less deserving fighters got title shots. Had Marciano fought Valdes, he'd finally have taken on a big, powerful heavyweight in his prime and had an answer to critics who note that his big wins were all against small or over-the-hill fighters.
He should have fought him regardless yes. And instead of cockell who was a trash opponent
VALDEZ wasn't much bigger nor any better than Rex Layne who Marciano smashed into into oblivion
Valdes was slow. Rocky would've had little trouble with him. On the other hand, Patterson would have been more than a handful for Rocky in 1956. I think Marciano's decision to retire came at the perfect time.
Valdes was the top contender for two years. But title shots went to the terribly overweight Cockell and Charles-two shots-who’d lost to Nino and had lost two of his previous four fights prior to Marciano. Those are the facts, plain and simple.
In May of 1954, Ring Magazine ranked Charles as the #1 Ranked Heavyweight Contender and Valdes was ranked #2. Every month there was a new Ring Magazine Boxing Rating. And Ring Magazine was not the Legal Governing Body of Boxing, the NBA Boxing Comission was. Valdes had lost 4 fights in a row in 1953 to Jackson, Baker, Moore and Billy Gilliam.
Valdes refused to give Charles a rematch and Nino's wins over Parker & McBride were very dull fights so both Ring Magazine & the NBA had Charles ranked as the #1 Contender in May, 1954. Moore had beat Valdes two times and Baker, Johnson, Satterfield, all beat Valdes and Nino didn't beat Cockell until 9/1955.
Valdes lost 6 of his 8 Boxing matches from 5/1955 - 9/1956 to Moore, Satterfield, Baker, Machen, Folley and Machen in a rematch.