Why did SIRIUS ask JAMES to switch to PETER?
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- Sirius thought that Peter was weak, he also knew there was a potential spy in the order ... so why in the world would he risk switching to Peter? It doesn't make sense ... it might have bought James and Lily a little bit of time but that's about it ... #harrypotter #siriusblack #dumbledore #voldemort
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Sirius wanted to out think voldemort, he would be a decoy secret keeper.. let everyone believe it was him, have them chase him. Make Peter the real secret keeper who was supposed to lay low. Sirius wanted to protect Peter to, since everyone thought it was him no one would go looking for Peter. His mistake of course was overestimating peters loyalty to himself and the Potters.
Pp
Yes this makes much more sense
This furthers the idea he was willing to die for his friends going so far as to be bait that should he ever be caught he'd die and voldemort would gain nothing. It's a gross mischaracterization to paint him a coward trying to throw Peter under the bus rather than him courageously being Bait for one of the darkest wizard's of all time to chase so that his friends would remain safe and unsuspected... he truly loved James and im beyond certain he would have died for him
And i think sirius assumed when the time came and Voldemort caught him he would have went down fighting or killed himself
It still makes no sense cause no material what if Sirius remained their secret keeper than he wouldn’t be able to be interrogated about the potters whereabouts. So why would he switch it?
Sirius explains that in prisoner of Azkaban that voldemort will obviously think the secret keeper is sirius and he said nobody will ever think someone like peter will be made secret keeper when there is sirius and remus and then james and lily will be safe. It was all part of their plan
That's what I was about to say. They were bros and he would have been the first go to. They even got to Lily's friends and family and we know that because of her sister's reaction to hearing about dementia(can't spell it, didn't look it up😂). Vernon was to dumb to even bother with, but they knew her sister was jealous of her abilities. Peter was a suck up and coward. I honestly believe he would have been my LAST choice. It makes me wonder if he heard where they were but wasn't supposed to.
@@RosebyanyothernameYahudi-id6rdPetunia knows about dementors because she overhears Lily and Snape talking about it before their first year at hogwarts. It is completely unrelated to this.
Yea except james could make himself the secret keeper... or lily... this was all written for plot convenience. Otherwise he would have been .entioned earlier.
True
He also didn't trust Remus because he kept going on secret missions to recruit werewolves.
I find it funny that dialogue from the book is used to make the argument, and yet the plot hole being suggested is explained in the book.
Exactly
They gotta have "content"
These people don’t read.
@@dylanstacey3514 that’s because reading is gay
@@NotDuncan dude is that one annoying sibling who says shit to annoy others
I think it’s the same as having Hagrid take Harry to the Weasley house over having him ride with Mad eye. Mad eye was the most capable and seemed like the one you would most trust with a valuable asset(Harry). So he is the one you would go after first while Hagrid is the least likely. Same thing but with Sirius being mad eye and Peter being Hagrid
The only difference is that Hagrid is loyal to the death and beyond. And, Peter is so much of a rat, even his animagus is a rat. They should have known that Peter couldn't be trusted.
I agree with the point you are making here
Only I would like to add that in the context of this book and the power of love things are different than in our muggle world.
There is a significance in Hagrid being the one who takes him out of that home as he was the one who took him from the ruins of his first home and brought him to Privet drive.
I'm sure Dumbledore had his reasons for making that plan in the same way he did leaving Harry with the Dursleys
Well no, Hagrid takes Harry because Mad Eye knew Voldermort would be there, and he also knew Voldermort would come straight for him, believing that Harry would only go with the most experienced, and toughest member of the Order... That's how Tonks explains it in the books. Which is why Mad-Eye insists that Mundungus goes with him, because Mundungus was expendable.
Yes, I realize, the book never mentions that Mad-Eye knew Voldermort would be there.... but I do believe he found out from their spy, Snape.... I mean how else do you think the Order found out about Thickness being under the Imperious curse, or that Snape knew to go to Grimmauld place to have his tongue tied so he wouldn't beable to tell Voldermort about the place? It would not be hard for Snape to convince Voldermort that he put Moody back under the Imperious curse, considering he spent most of Harry's 4th year under it. So that if they were seen together by DeathEaters, Snape would have an excuse. Also, this would mean the Dumbledore told Moody about his plan to have Snape kill him. He wouldn't have told him the whole plan, but I can see him going with the same story the Snape told Bellatrix, about him being injured in his duel with Voldermort at the Ministry. Then he would have truthfully told Moody that he was dying, that he only had about a year, and that he was going to use his death to help erase all doubt in Voldermort's mind about Snape..... so that Snape could continue being their spy.. He would've had to tell this to Moody, because if he hadn't, Moody would've dropped everything, and made it his personal mission to capture Snape..... Not the most rational choice, but fits Mad-Eye 's character....
@@athenamorales7321they didnt know Peter wasnt to be trusted yet. They knew he was a coward, but he was their friend nonetheless.
@@niaselah3348Harry was left with the dursleys because they were his only BLOOD family left and lily's protection wasn't fully understood. They thought it might not work if he lived anywhere else. That's why he HAD to go back to the dursleys home every year till he turned 17. I highly recommend the audiobooks because people miss so much. Also both parents gave their lives protecting Harry so I always wondered why he didn't receive protection from both parents. They never stated it's a mother child thing and they prove it isn't when Harry dies in DH 2 and gave everyone the same protection his mother gave him. Which is the main reason why nobody else died from that point onwards. So I don't know why he wasn't protected by both parents.
Because the fact Sirius was James' best friend was public knowledge. He would be 'too obvious' of a choice for a secret keeper
Okay but he already planned on dying for their protection anyway.
Sirius was the obvious choice, so they’d go after him and torture the name of the real secret keeper out of him, and then EZPZ they catch the fat rat and kill the potters. All he managed to do (at least in his POV) was doom not only him, but one of this friends to death for the sake of James, when really Peters death wouldn’t have been necessary in that scenario
Your missing the point though, none of that matters. Sirius and James being best buds and everyone knowing that doesn’t matter.
If Sirius was made the Secret Keeper, The Fidelis Charm prevents the information from being interrogated or extracted out of you.
So regardless of wether Sirius was caught or not it wouldn’t matter. Because as I stated once the Fidelis Charm is cast and whoever is made to be the secret keeper, that information is safe. There is no known way or magic to force the information your trying to get out of the Secret Keeper. Which is the whole point of the Charm.
The ONLY known way to get said info, is by the Secret Keeper VOLUNTARILY giving it up.
See how it’s kind of a big plot hole now?
@@spookyghost2689your acting as if Sirius would actually sell out his friends.
@@Ninjastorm164 true but there are a LOT of ways to force someone to tell the truth. Regardless of their intentions
@dylanfry7978 No, you are SO wrong. Think about this scenario:
Sirius is the secret keeper. He tells everyone in the order (including the spy for voldemort). Sirius gets hunted down and killed because he is unwilling to give up the secret. Now everyone in the order, including the spy, is now a secret keeper. Voldemort knows where the Potters are.
It makes perfect sense. A better move would have been to make James the secret keeper, like Bill and Arthur in deathly hallows. Or Dumbledore since he is the only one Voldemort is afraid of.
It IS still utterly stupid that James didn't become secret keeper himself.
At first, we were led to believe that the people being hidden couldn't be the keeper, yet in book 7 Bill is mentioned as the secret keeper for Shell Cottage... his own house.
It isn’t stupid at all, Bill had to leave shell cottage to go out for supplies and to find information on the world. That made him vulnerable, he became a weak link because he had to leave the protection of the charm and thus he put his whole household at risk every time he left the house. Bill didn’t have an invisibility cloak, and of Lord Voldemort was looking for Bill he would’ve eventually found him on an outing. James was literally being specifically hunted unlike Bill by Voldemort himself. Having the secret keeper be someone else would mean that the other person could themselves be safe, and apparate to the doorstep of the Potters to visit and bring supplies without exposing any of the members of the household. Furthermore James’ invisibility cloak was being borrowed by Dumbledore at the time, Lily expresses that James felt cooped up and wanted to have an outing but that Dumbledore had his cloak. Had he had his cloak maybe he would’ve been secret keeper, but he still had Voldemort looking for him specifically. Bill was never in Voldemorts radar, sure the Weasley family was under general surveillance by the ministry at that point, but no one was expecting to specifically hunt down Bill Weasley. With Voldemort hunting the Potters, having someone else do the chores, get the supplies, and bring information to them without exposing any of them to being possibly traced by remaining under the protection of the Fidalius charm was probably the smartest decision they could’ve made.
Yeah, JK Rowling made a mistake when she made Bill his own Secret Keeper, she should have just kept it that you can't be your own. There was already a pothole with no explanation for why James and Lily didn't accept Dumbledore’s offer to be Secret Keeper, she added another one when she made Bill his own.
@@saphiramystique2086she didn’t only make Bill his own secret keeper. She also made Arthur the secret keeper of aunt Muriel when he and his whole family lived there.
@@kennowaybonaparte9451it‘s not stupid. It’s way better to be the secret keeper within the house. After all you can share the secret so anyone you share it with can visit you while nobody other than you can tell it to anyone. And since you’re under the protection of the charm nobody can find you. In book 7 we learn that Bill gave the secret to Lupin who was able to visit them. So James could have been the secret keeper while also sharing the secret with Sirius, Dumbledore, Bathilda and whoever else they wanted to see.
@@chcucivtxzclccucifudohzfu6766 It also states in the book that nearly all forms of communication are able to be intercepted by adversaries. Such as umbridge monitoring the owls and fireplaces. The ministry was full of death eaters. They were monitoring for even a hint of the potters whereabouts. Moody had to hand deliver the information of the Headquarters of the Order to Harry and then immediately burn the note. Using any form of communication besides direct apparition within the Fidelius charms boundaries were susceptible to being intercepted and used by Voldemort who was specifically hunting the Potters. Bill was never specifically hunted by Voldemort himself. So yes, it would’ve been very stupid to do any of that which you’d know if you actually paid attention to any of the lore.
They say in the books that he switched because he was afraid Lupin was a traitor and he knew everyone would overlook Peter and come after him anyway. He was trying to keep buying everyone more time. 🤷♀️
Unfortunately, he fell for the same thing he was counting on everyone else falling for - He was aware someone in their circle was a mole, and he never thought it could possibly be Peter. Then he specifically chose Peter to keep the secret because he assumed no one would ever think it could possibly be him. But Peter was a rat the whole time.
Peter was literally a rat though most of the series 😅
He was a coward the whole time. A mole constantly listening. He would have been my last choice lol😂 he reminded me of Randall from Recess
@@RosebyanyothernameYahudi-id6rd props for bringing up Randal and the Recess!!! I love that cartoon
Absolutely did not suggest that in the book
They should’ve chosen Lupin instead of Peter
You have to remember context. Sirus was 21 yr old and he was thinking, probably in a stupid confident way, that he could outmaneuver Voldemort by picking Peter. Also sirus was doubting lupin allegiance at the time due to the times. Remember the first wizarding war was very different than the second. Nobody knew who was on who side, people were disappearing, and everyone was under attack. Situs probably was on his guard and never thought Voldemort would go to a weakling like Peter nor did he suspect Peter was the spy. Thus led to the plan that made Peter secret keeper and thus very realistically it was a combination of bad decision making, putting trust in wrong person and being in environment where stress was high and people were constantly on edge
I would have probably worked if peter stayed loyal to his friends and not to the dark lord
Sirius' plan was to trick Voldemort himself, remember when they switch to Peter. Sirius went into hiding so he wanted Voldemort after him while Peter hide and the Potters hide.
After thry were found dead he knew who the snitch was and it was why Hagrid didn't want him to take baby Harry as he thought he was a Death Eater which is why he left his flying motorbike with Hagrid
He gave Hagrid the bike to get Harry while he went after wormtail
He gave his motorbike to save Harry yet for the next 13 years everyone believed he was a traitor, a death eater and after Harry?..
Sirius would’ve been the obvious choice as a secret keeper. That’s why he wanted Peter to be the keeper. It would’ve worked if Peter didn’t betray them
Why not lupin
@tarnpreetsingh8042 at the time Sirius thought Lupin was a traitor. He knew there was a mole in the Order but didn't think the mole was Peter.
@@spencerhulcy727 ohhh ok
If the secret keeper dies everybody who knows the secret will become the secret keeper. Sirius suspected lupin to be the spy so he didn't want him to become the secret keeper.
Actually it was literally because he was James closest friend so everyone would assume it was him, Sirius planned to act as bait and a fake keeper since he knew no one would assume it was Peter. The biggest mistake he made was assuming Peter would be loyal since Peter went to Voldemort about it. Sirius was willing to put himself in danger and die for the potters.
Oh I missed that everyone becomes secret keeper in case the first one dies 😮 Do you by any chance remember where it was mentioned in the books?
Then, if Peter told anyone besides Voldemort where the Potters were, those people should have felt something in case Peter died? So they could've guessed that he was actually alive!!
I probably need to re-read the books, I remember only his missing finger at the crime scene 🙈 but now that I think of it why was Peter even there in the first place? Did he literally bring Voldemort with him?
@@4eburawka18 Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallow-
They were often joined by other Order members for dinner now,
because the Burrow had replaced number twelve, Grimmauld Place
as the headquarters. Mr. Weasley had explained that after the
death of Dumbledore, their Secret-Keeper, each of the people to
whom Dumbledore had confided Grimmauld Place’s location had
become a Secret People in turn
@@joshuarobinson6011 (the Secret Keeper must actively choose to reveal the secret; they cannot be tricked or forced by magical or non-magical means.) so anyone knowing who the secret keeper is would not have mattered
@@gajapokemonz5736 thank you so much! 🙏🏻
Because Sirius was their best friend, he was the logical choice. They were trying to choose someone who wouldn't be expected to be a secret keeper
They should have pick Voldemort then, the Dark Lord would never see that coming!
They should have let Albus Dumbledore be the secret keeper.
But then the book wouldn't have happened.
if I remember correctly, Dumbledore offered
The fact that Dumbledore didn’t at any point waste Voldemort is the biggest plot hole of all.
@@ludrixte1938he had to find the horcruxes first and he wasnt able to do that. By the time he even found the first one (well second really) he was old and Harry had to do a lot of the leg work. The first horcrux found was the diary. Yes dumbledore knew what it was but couldnt say anything in front of Harry.
@@ImReverseGiraffelmaoooo this made me LOL this is soooo true
You said “If Sirius was so WILLING to die for the Potters, why didn’t he?” Well my Friend, if I recall well, Harry is one of the Potters and if my memory doesn’t fail me, Sirius did die Protecting his Godson… Everything he ever did was in the best interest of his “Adoptive Family” 😊
Oh and The Potters did not went into hiding because You-Know-Who was after their son but because You-Know-Who wanted to recruit the Potters and they refused, so for their own safety and their son’s, they went into hiding… Seriously, know your story before b*thing on Sirius or whatever you were attemptin’ to do there !
Also he WAS willing to die for the Potters before too, he was fully aware he was the obvious choice and decided to act as bait anyways
Don’t forget that Peter was already in the service of the dork lord. No one thought Peter would ever be given such a responsible bit of work. Sadly, Sirius overthought the thing. He was always willing to die for the cause or his friends as he eventually did. But calling into question that decision or casting aspersions on his courage is “not very nice of you”.
The reason was because others knew it was Sirius, and they didn't fully trust them. Sirius himself says that he didn't tell Remus they had made the switch because he didn't fully trust Remus.
Also, Dumbledore offered to be the secret keeper, but they said "no" because they didn't fully trust him, but he did know/believe that it was Sirius.
It was just one additional layer of protection they thought of to even further reduce the number of people who knew who the actual secret keeper was.
Because, if my beloved Sirius died defending The Potters, he wouldn’t have been around for his godson, Harry! Plain and simple!
Well that's briefly and beautifully explained in the POA.
Infact, that's exactly what Sirius Black wanted - he wanted voldemort and everyone to bliv that he was the keeper.
So if voldemort comes chasing, it will be behind Sirius whom he will go, which keeps the potters safe following the fact that the secret keeper was changed since nobody would even think about pettigrew being one.
Sirius' idea was actually a brilliant one 🥹
He succeeded what exactly he wanted with the plan.
The whole wizarding world always believed that Sirius was the keeper and who betrayed them.
Sirius would've been undoubtedly be happy to die rather than betraying the potters 🥹💗💎
It was that dumb pettigrew who exploited the plan and misused the Black's & Potter's trust on him out of his greed for power..
It actually would have the most sense for dumbledore to be their secret keeper however if anyone else had been the secret keeper it would have been a very different story 🤷♀️
He figured no one would suspect peter being the secret keeper
A better question would be, how did Voldemort figure out the Potters were using a Fidelius Charm in the first place?
It seems as though Peter went to Voldemort and VOLUNTEERED the info, and that would get around a LOT of problems with this...
Maybe THAT'S why Rowling wrote it that way - it's too hard to get around the Fidelius Charm any other way!
I honestly thought he’d done this as to help himself and others confirm Peter’s loyalty. The fact in Azkaban when he’s (Sirius) told by Harry that he’s seen Peter at Hogwarts on the map concludes his thought that he wasn’t actual loyal because he would’ve been dead by then had Voldemort figured it out.
He wanted to blindside Voldy but was blinsided by Peter... 😢
I think the reasoning was also that since it was well known that Sirius was best friends with James. Peter was kinda forgotten about. So if the death eaters would have captured Sirius the actual secret keeper would be safe (theoretically)
Could also be that Regulus was still thought to be alive. And maybe Sirius was worried that if Regulus asked hime he would have given it up
... which, we learn in DH, Regulus was until right around the beginning of HBP!
In all honesty, James should've made lily the secret keeper of vice versa
Nonsense. Do you honestly think that James made the whole secret keeper decision without Lily's knowledge or say in all of it?
@paulyb7267 or they should have decided it together, why would they make it anyone other than the two of them?
@robertmiller3529 They did decide it together. James and Lily both made the secret keeper to be Sirius, and later (after Sirius's persuasion) changed it to Peter.
@paulyb7267 my question is why wouldn't they use someone who is protected by the charm? That would have been the safest option
Because he didn’t need to. There’s a difference between what he did for Harry-blocking a killing curse-and avoiding death by providing other solutions. Besides, Wormtail was always slimy.
But if a secret keeper dies, everyone he told becomes secret keeper, whitout the said protections. This is, how in the books the Trio lost the HQ in Grimmauld square Yaxley held on them, as they apparated, getting inside the spell's area. Also in the books, its mentioned that the Potters had visitors almost everyday, meaning at least half a dozen "secondary keeper", who becomes active the moment the original dies, or possibly loses its soul in a dementor attack. One of them would crack the time, because some of them aren't fighters, death eaters capture them, or one of their relatives. Not to mention, Sirius suspected Remus, who James wouldn't let him leave out. So if Voldemort catches the original secret keeper, he won because of the too many "secondaries". So the manouver to appoint someone Voldemort wouldn't even think about in probably the top 10 possibilities is genius, because he would hunt for this top 10 list first, winning devades to Harry to grow up to the Prophecy
I wonder if Rowling thought of it or just got lucky :)
Why couldn't James and Lily just be each other's secret keeper?
Ikr, there won't be any informations leak if there's no information at all. 😂
You cant be a keeper to your own secret for that same reason it was Dumbledoor who was keeping the secret for Grimwould where the main meating place for the order of the Phoenix insted of Sirius who lived there.
@@pavelogorek6575 Dumbledore had to be Sirius's secret keeper because you can't be your own secret keeper. Here I'm saying Lily and James could have just performed the spell on each other. Bill was able to do so where he and Fleur were staying. Even if we're saying for some reason that was an exception and the secret keeper can't live in the location, the potters still could have lived separately for a while. At the very least, Lily and Harry could have been made safe. It's one of the biggest plot holes in the series.
The replies to your comment are wrong. But this is from the fandom and jk R
It should be noted that even the inhabitants of the secret location can become a Secret Keeper, so one must wonder why James or Lily didn't become their own Secret Keeper, instead of having their friends become one which would have effectively made them a prime target for Voldemort. But this can be explained by what Flitwick says in the third book: "not even if he had his nose pressed against their sitting room window!". Suggesting that in the Potters' case not the location but James and Lily themselves are the secret. Meaning that when one of them was the secret keeper nobody would be able to see or hear them and they wouldn't be able to disclose their secret to anyone else.
@@ajl9772
Perhaps because of Harry? Lily's location could have James as secret keeper and vice versa for James' location. But they would both need to be able to meet with their baby
If u have read the books then u should know why he did it........basically sirius wanted voldermort to think that a strong person like sirius would be kept as a secret keeper and no one would ever think that a weak person such as wormtail (aka peter)...would he a secret keeper so if voldermort wanted to capture the secret keeper it would be sirius not peter........
Because as James’s best friend he was the obvious choice of Secret Keeper, as proven when that is what basically everyone believes. Making someone that wasn’t Sirius Secret Keeper would have better kept them hidden and well Secret 🤷♀️. Or it would if they hadn’t made the mistake of all trusting a Rat.
If Sirius was the secret keeper, wi delete 7 books and 8 movies 😂😂😅
The point is the dark Lord was supposed to think that black was the secret keeper because he was the obvious choice But switching to Pettegrew meant that he could torture black to his hearts content and still wouldn’t get the location of the Potters out of him because the dark Lord would be torturing the wrong man which was Black’s plan all along.
It would've saved everyone A LOT of heartache, if DUMBLEDORE, James or Lily, had been made the keepers😪. Unfortunately James trusted his friends, more than himself. He refused Dumbledores offer, & asked Sirius. But Sirius knew that HE was the obvious choice (after Dumbledore), followed by Lupin. Peter was the least qualified, & therefore the last one to be targeted. But by then, everyone would know that MoldyWarts was on their trail & they could act. They wouldn't have been caught off guard, like that night.
Unfortunately they all trusted the most selfish & cowardly. It was a stupid mistake, because they all knew that Peter was very cowardly & not talented. Common sense dictates that this rat would squeal in a heartbeat, to save his own disgusting tail. If I recall correctly, Dumbledore & Lupin had their doubts about making Peter the keeper. But Lupin said " James would have regarded it as the height of dishonor to mistrust his friends.”. But James's blind trust in his "friend", doomed himself & his family.
It was in the books that he suggested Peter to be secret keeper beceause he should go for Sirius because he was powerfull and Peter was weak he thought that Voldemort whould go for him and not Peter but he betrays
Simply because if he did so, we would not have had a lot of great time.
why James can’t be the secret keeper, like what the Weasley family did? The secret keeper lives inside the house was protected, if you never leave the house, you are 100% safe.
This is the real plot hole created in the last book
"If he would die for the potters, then why didn't he?" *Proceeds to show Sirius dying for Harry Potter*
Unlike the others, Wormtail is probably the least best at dueling.
Making Sirius the secret keeper means he will need to stay low, lest he die and reveal everything. If he wants to fight, he can't be the secret keeper.
Hence probably why they don't choose Dumbledore too. Not that they know he has the elder wand though.
The reason why It's because everyone would suspect Siri a serious was James and Lily Potter's Godfather for Harry everyone would suspect that he was the secret keeper so serious knew that instead of him being the secret keeper and having you're taken over by voldemort voldemort as you said would just somehow through dark magic or whatever find out that it's Where they were living in godrick's hollow so he said instead of doing it on Syria's do it to Peter who would suspect the wizard who was a fool who couldn't even Protect himself Which is why Peter hid behind power
After death, everyone who knows becomes secret keeper. If serious was the keeper, he inevitably gets killed, and the secret is out. Instead, he was a decoy meant to run while peter laid low and hides, whitch lets be honest, was wormtails strength.
Voldemort would think Sirius as secret keeper and if sirius dies, everyone he told about the secret will be secret keepers, just like when Dumbledore died as he was secret keeper of Grimmauld place. So they made Peter as no one would suspect him.
You guys know nothing about HP. When the secret keeper dies, everyone who knows the location becomes the secret keeper. Voldy has spies even in the order. All he needs to do is to kill keeper and he can access to Harry.
Where's it say that? If it was that simple, then why would Sirius think it would work (even before switching to Peter). Then his point about dying would be so moot...
@@NateBraska It is that simple. They used Peter because they assumed Voldy would never guess that.
@@onursenduran961 but where does it say "when the secret keeper dies, everyone who knows the location becomes the defect keeper"? That doesn't make sense. That makes the spell pretty pointless.
@@NateBraska it is in the books. After Dumbledore died everyone became secret keepers of the Order so they just left there deserted ASAP.
The only time that we know of that happening once, in the Deathly Hallows,after dumbledore dies,everyone who has been to grimauld place after the protective charms were put in place became secret keepers this included snape.
However snape was able to keep this knowledge from voldemort.
The death waters only learned of grimauld place after Harry Ron and Hermione accidentally take a death eater to grimauld place after escaping the ministry thereby revealing grimauld place to the ministry and also Voldemort.
The whole point was Sirius was sacrificing himself as a red herring. He was the most obvious person to be the keeper. Therefore if he hauls ass and runs from Riddle, he can keep him occupied on a wild goose chase while Peter would stay hidden. Sirius wouldn't know where Peter was hiding so he couldn't be tortured into revealing where he was.
This feels like more than a huge reach and more like trying to make Sirius out to just be a coward. The way I read it all, is that it was just SB overthinking it and also being deceived by PP's lack of loyalty and extreme fear on LV
Here is a question
PS I’m not the most knowledgeable person in Harry Potter
Anyway, why didn’t they make James or Lily, the secret keeper?
They would’ve been able to tell their friends, but nobody else would be able to know, and nobody else would be able to tell
I dont think verisatium or imperius curse works on fidelus charm. Fidelus charm only works when the person states the information by his own wish. It was a basic common sense that Potter would have hided in home, so just telling the address of home wouldn't discharm the fielus charm. It only works when the secret keeper betrays.
Here's a question, why couldn't the secret keeper ALSO be put under an Unbreakable Vow? Like, if he even willingly speaks to Voldemort or his Death Eaters, instant death. If he fails to lay low, death. What happens when the secret keeper dies? Does the secret die with them? Does the charm break? I feel like few more spells could have been used in tandem to help protect the Potters. Imagine if the Potters could create Portkeys and kept an item in Harry's room to be used for that purpose if they're ever found. Those magic mirrors that Sirius and James used would be a BIG help for emergency communication.
If a secret keeper dies anyone who was told the secret becomes a new secret keeper. Everyone in the order of the phoenix new where the potters were so if the secret keeper dies they all become new secret keepers
Additionally they knew someone in the order was a spy for Voldemort so if they became the secret keeper they'd just tell Voldemort where the potters are
This is one question I’ve been wanting to know for a very long time thank you for answering it
What i actually find bewildering is that Sirius, suspecting there was a traitor, chose his friend who had the animagus form of a rat. Animagus forms are KNOWN to be evocative of someone's personality! It's why they *tend* to be the same as your patronus charm. Even if you don’t think "rat=traitor" you must know that *something* in his heart has informed that animagus transformation. Why not pick Dumbledore, or the Longbottoms or literally fucking anybody else. Shit, even when trying to outsmart Voldemort, Pettigrew is an *awful* choice. He is *literally* the 3rd most obvious candidate after Sirius and Lupin.
Read the books
The answer is so obvious. Sirius knew there was a traitor among the order, they suspected Remus. Presumably Remus knew where James, Lily and Harry lived but wasn't the secret keeper so all Voldemort had to do was kill the secret keeper and everyone who knew the secret would become the secret keeper.
So I think Sirius was trying to give James and Lily an extra layer of protection by changing the secret keeper without anyone knowing.
Its all explained easily in the books. He thought voldy would be gunning for him as "secret keeper" so Sirius acted as decoy while peter was the real one. His personality at the time was cocky and too self assumed, borderline stupid. I mean, the sole fact he abandons baby Harry to recklessly chase after peter into a trap says it all 😂
In book 3, Sirius said that Voldemort would not suspect that Peter is the secret keeper and that’s the reason why he convince the Potters to make Peter thei secret keeper.
What if it wasn't the actual Sirius black who urged them to change the keeper to Peter was if Peter helped them capture Sirius make a polyjuice of him and convince the potters to make it pettigrew so pettigrew could tell Voldemort
He knew they would come after him and try to kill him. If he could not evade them and they did kill him, then the charm would weaken and all who visited the potters would be secret keepers too. He always assumed he could evade the death eaters but if he could not he knew he would be killed and the charm would still be intact, fully protecting his best friend and his family.
The real mystery; how could someone as imaginative as J.K. Rowling come up with such an unimaginative name for the villains as "Death Eaters..."? With all that wonderful brain power and imagination, you would think she would come up with something a little less... Lame.
He thought that voldemort would think that he is the secret keeper, in turn, keeping Peter sagetoo. But he didn't know that he would willingly snitch on them.
Sirius already had death eaters coming after him and he knew that so he decided hey mine as well try to protect the potters with an even further staff and make pedigrew the secret key
It would be obvious that sirius is the secret keeper
Because the writers forgot that plot hole 😂😂
I don’t think Veritaserum would of worked like that J.K. Rowling has said that it works on it “works best upon the unsuspecting, the vulnerable and those insufficiently skilled” which Sirus is none of those. And its not like Sirus rolling up to where Voldemort’s hide out and asking for a drink that Voldemort spike. And i think Volemort would of considered and maybe was making a spell or at least was before petgriew turned
Because he was Harry's godfather. If something happened to them, HE was supposed to take Harry. Peter would have been better as to have someone to protect Harry.
Thank you.
He regreted that's why he was depressed all those time and this is the reason why he helped Harry after overcoming his emotional breakdown.
Tell me you've never read the book without telling me you've never read the book.
I think everybody knew, including Sirius, that no one would ever believe Peter was the secret keeper because he blabbed everything. Hagrid Kane and serious was there with his bike when Lillian James were killed. It is my guess that he was guarding and waiting hoping to capture or Battle Voldemort himself and at least give Lily and James a chance to escape. He knew that Peter would blab and Voldemort would come and give him a chance to battle. He wanted to bring goodness to the line of Black rather than all the negative darkness that was typical of his family.
I think it shows his faith and loyalty in his friends. Can you imagine having a friend that you trust more than yourself? Especially when it comes to such an important matter - life or death really. He knows himself, knows that he would never give it up but just in case he decides to go with Peter. The level of trust in his friends is so incredible and impressive but overlooked when it comes to Sirius.
They both cast the charm making each other the keepers now it’s invincible
Actually it was because Sirius would have been the obvious choice, but they would never suspect anyone as pathetic and weak as Peter. Sirius says this himself. He was willing to die for them, but why would he ever choose death over Voldemort not even knowing who the Secret Keeper was? That would be stupid.
This was explained pretty clearly in the books at least. They knew there was a spy, and Sirius suspected Lupin. So he came up with the plan to secretly switch to peter beliveing the spy will send voldemort after himself.
Did u even read the books at all? In prisoner, Sirius explained that he wanted ppl 2 think he was the keeper so voldy would go after him, not his friends. So Sirius WAS willing to die 4 his friends while discrating voldy
I kinda assumed that Sirius just assumed Voldemort would suspect himself instead of Peter.
It was implied that Sirius thought Remus was the traitor so he was trying to keep Remus out of the loop not knowing Peter was actually the traitor.
Maybe it would have been better to let Remus be secret keeper
I know he said he was willing to die for them but I kinda think that he knew something was special about Harry and he wanted someone that he knew would be able to take care of Harry so he told the potters to switch so he could be there to tell Harry exactly what happened
The fact that it doesn't make sense was the whole point bro
Yea, and after getting nothing out of Sirius Voldy was gonna be like: yea my bad, see you around right?
To make a friend nobody cares about feel important
This was addressed Sirius thought it was a good faint, but also admitted to being a coward.
I mean the fact that Sirius trusted Peter more than Lupin because they had some issues says a LOT about his fuckups.
Sirius thought it would be too obvious and that nobody would suspect peter to be the secret keeper
They couldve gobe lupin, because sirius wouldve beeb the obvious choice, and with how down talked on werewolves are, they wouldnt think of it to be him
Part of the reason why he asked them to switch to Peter was that he didn’t trust himself with the secret but it was still all part of a bigger plan. They let the idea that Sirius was the secret keeper spread so that the real secret keeper would be kept just that, a secret. They did not know however that Wormtail was secretly in league with Voldemort and was bound to tell him. That was a flaw in the plan that they did not see coming bc they had no idea that he was working for voldemort.
Bro, the truth serum “ I forgot what it was called” would have saved so many live and dept with so many problems
For that reason exactly, Voldemort would first have to break Sirius to find out about Peter, giving the potters and dumbledore more time.
he did die for the potters he died in the 6th movie protecting harry
5th
My head cannon was that the Rat, Peter, put it in Sirius' head beforehand and was aldreasy working for Voldemort. Basically pointing out that Sirius would be the most likely target and the safest bet was to put the secret with someone they would never expect. I could see a young Sirius (who made some impulsive, emotional decisions as a wiser adult) quickly going with this last minute try to save his friends, ultimately leading to their demise
They knew Sirius would be a decoy. He was the most obvious secret keeper. It was the potter’s decision.
When the secret keeper dies, everyone who knew the secret is now the secret keeper. That makes the spell a lot less useful.
Just in my opinion… I feel like Sirius would have died for the potters but idk I could be wrong
Everyone seems to forget that the way the Fidelius charm works is when the original secret keeper dies, everyone they told becomes a secret keeper as well, which would quickly dilute the effectiveness of the charm. Sirius would have definitely been willing to die before revealing the secret, but then when he died then everyone he told would suddenly become targets as well. Had Peter gone to ground and Sirius gone out fighting before Voldemort could extract his memories, the likelyhood of it being revealed that Peter was the secret keeper would be extremely low considering he was the weakest of the group. It likely not cross Voldemorts mind that they'd give such an improtant duty to someone so weak. In fact he'd likely just assume they did the bait and switch to hide the fact that Dumbledore was secret keeper. It's pretty well known that Dumbledore originally offered.
I think it’s helpful to remember too that Peter knew Voldemort would kill him if he discovered Peter was secret keeper and that’s likely what prompted Peter to use the Potters to buy his own life. Which is the only thing that kept the Dark Lord from killing him anyway.
Sirius was the obvious choice, no one would've expected them to choose Peter over him
Tell me you didn't read the books without telling me that you didn't read the books.
Dude. It LITERALLY explains this in the books. EVERYONE thought that it was Sirius, and he played on that to act as a decoy. No one suspected Peter was the secret keeper; meanwhile, Sirius is over there drawing all the heat, keeping those hunting the Potters focused on him. Even if he got caught, it's not like they can torture information that he doesn’t have out of him, so the Potters are safe, and in the end, it's more likely that Voldie and co. will assume that he's too loyal to tell them, rather than the Secret Keeper is someone else. Admittedly, this was never tested (that we know of), but his intentions were to draw the heat so Peter could stay under the radar. If Peter stays alive and uncaught, so do the Potters. If Peter is never even suspected, then the odds of the Potters being exposed is nil.
He stated in the books that he would be the most obvious candidate and everyone knew that they’d come after him for sure but no one would suspect Peter and rightfully so, he had the right idea it’s just that no one expected Peter to turn on them
A Secret Keeper can only reveal the secret if they choose to what everyone seems to be overlooking is if you're getting tortured long enough you're going to willingly give up that information otherwise the spell would have to make you immune to all physical pain
There's also the fact that if Sirius was the Secret Keeper, captured and killed by Voldemort because he can't get the information from him, thus leaving Harry with no one if the events unfolded the same with that slight alteration.
Peter transforms into a rat, not only could wormtail have come up with the idea of hiding himself in the form of a rat, but Sirius could have thought of it himself.
Or, you know, it was a last minute idea that no one thought through properly...