Ha ha! Well, tell her I'm flattered, and let her know that *you're* getting a shout out in the episode I plan on recording today :). Hope to have it up tomorrow sometime.
@@AllThingsFascinateI swear, Monk suffers from its design space competing with Fighter, and WotC distinguishes them by making everything the monk does worse to make sure Fighter gets its points
Hey, I love thinking about optimization builds and I’ve been looking for months to find quality content like this. After wading through a bunch of trash like Nerdarchy it’s so refreshing to find thoughtful multi class builds supported with good math. Thank you!
Thanks John! I was in the same boat and, since I couldn't find anything out there that was exactly what I wanted, I decided to just do it myself :P. Glad you're enjoying!
@@logancuster8035 Colby likes sustained over burst. he likes reliable over situational. gloomstalkers are the quintessential burst class. they are the poster boy for "in the right situations, they are very powerful" but in the wrong campaigns, they are meh. with that said, i would've gone gloomstalker as well for more attacks, access to aid/rope trick and an easy way to generate advantage/surprise.
This is incredible content. I love looking into the most optimized way of playing characters. I often don't end up playing my characters out exactly the most optimized way but looking at the most optimized way is soooo helpful to then decide what is willing to be sacrificed for flavor while still having a strong character.
I'd love to see a Way of Open Hand/Battlemaster build from you. Or even a Bladesinger/Monk (MAD) but even possible? Great video! What would you want to see added or fixed for Monks to make them on par with other classes?
The bird race doesn't take away from the wall climbing or slow fall I'd actually argue the opposite since if your flying at 40 feet (cause it's based of walking with is great) and someone reduces your speed to zero you no longer take all the fall damage you'd get cause slow fall and if your ever in a cave or cramped dungeon like the name of the game you can still walk up walls and keep aerial superiority without the space for flight.
Yeah, the only downside there of course is that your spell isn't very sustainable. Still, a nice option for at least one encounter a day, and lets you keep all your Monkiness :).
@@DnDDeepDive Especially post Tashe's, Ranger dip is far better. Favored Foe is Proficiency Bonus times per day, so Monk levels make it better. Stacked with Hunter's Mark from Ranger, you have enough to last all day long even at high level. Monk capstone it just, bad. It only helps if one has used all Ki points. Even if only for levels 19 and 20, a Ranger dip is better than staying full Monk.
@@brettmajeske3525 IMO martials are best multiclassed as aside from fighter most dont have good capstones and its tough for them to keep up with the spellcasters without the versatility and optimization that multiclassing provides. Dipping into 1-2 other martial classes such as the fighter and ranger, helps shore up the monk's weaknesses.
I feel like all the people who love the monk are all the people who played it as their first 5e class. One of my buddies in college ran a game, and I decided to try it out, and now I just keep thinking of new ways to integrate the monk into builds. A lot of stuff there that people underestimate.
*I would love more Monk & Cleric builds .* *[ Edit 1 ] Tasha's adds a lot of new Feats , new alt features & new additional features .* *That can really give the monk a huge boost .* *At level 1 .* *Monks don't have ki points .* *They get it at level 2 & starts with 2 ki points .* *[ Edit 2 ] The ( Default ) restrictions on monk weapons are actually Simply weapons + Short swords that lack the Heavy or Two-Handed properties .* *Which makes a quarter Staff / Staff a odd edge case .*
What I'm thinking is a kensei/gloom stalker, race is grung. Magic item would be boots of striding and springing. Important feats are mobile and sharpshooter. He will have insane hops and be a hard hitting archer.
Ha ha - I always think I'm going to make them shorter and punchier but I have neither the editing chops nor, apparently, the self-control to not be a wind bag :). If it helps, you could always try the podcast form and listen while you're driving or something, but that might put you to sleep and I would hate to cause an accident :P.
Another possibility is go go ranged with Kensei, take the Longbow, take Archery style, at level 9 (Ranger 3, Monk 6) you can make 2 ranged attacks per round doing 1d8+1d6+1d4+DEX and are able to spend a Ki to add another 1d6 to an attack, if they are already at less than their max HP you can also do another 1d8 per round with colossus slayer. With your massive mobility you need never get into hand to hand and with sharpshooter it just gets nastier, and unlike other archers if they close big deal you can now make unarmed attacks.
Monks are cool ... super cool. But they are the worst designed 5e charcter by far ... ranger was the weakest yes ... monk is just badly designed So many fluff which is great please give me fluff thats why fighters are bland they lack fluff their subclass give the fluff. Monks ... as a class all about honing the body and making it perfect ... why its not a d12 hit die class ?? why the unarmed start at a 1d4 .. the same as a tavern brawler ... heck now the unarmed fighting style of a fighter deal more damage than a monk a 1d6 or a 1d8 right at level one !!!! so start at 1d6 up to 1d12 for unarmed strikes stunning strike something so broken yet so heavily resisted and a ki burner . YES it let you potentially have a creature have a quad disadvantage on a save of one of the least immune condetions but thats burning 5 ki points !!! the diamond soul amazing .... way too late at level 14 ... spread that out at level 7 gain one save of your choice. one can choose dex to double down on the dex save or cover another stat like wisdom . at level 11 do it again and at level 14 give the last two saves. empty body AMAZING !! again way too late. eats up alot of ki . takes an action to do. and then be resistant TO EVERY THING ... and Astral self for only yourself .... how is that ever useful !! who is crazy enough to go to the astral plane alone . so change it into an attack that force someone else to go to the astral self and take punch of psychic damage !!! think of doctor strange and the ancient one . and finally ... one of the worst cap stones ... what would 4 ki points DO ... sigh There is alot A LOT of conflict within the Monk and its just badly designed its too mad at least Barbarian MAD you can just focus on Con would boost your AC and make you more survivable. I both love and hate the monk how its super Janky in 5e but hold so much flavor.... same as the ranger so much flavor .... so bad and weak. at least before tasha
agreed. another issue with the monk is it doesnt have a combat identity it clearly excels in. is it a controller? is it a striker? is it a tank? excelling at one thing and being decent at others is better than being above average in multiple things in 5e, especially since we operate in a party concept. the issue with stunning strike as well is that unlike battlemaster maneuvers which are based off of your attack stat, unless you're an astral monk, the save DC will always suck. lastly building around unarmed dmg and no armor will usually be suboptimal once the party gets magical weapons and armor. alot of dms dunno what to give a monk and will usually give them fluff magic items. this is only circumvented if the dm lets you wish list or buy magic items.
I really enjoy you breaking down the numbers. I feel like after a certain point people play monks for flavor and action economy. However if I may make a suggestion, I would look into going with the gloom stalker ranger. You can add your wisdom score to initiative so you can make sure you always go first and also has some other cool features with it as well
Hey Colby love your work! Your depth and detail in your builds is outstanding. Is there a reason you didn’t start with 2 levels of Ranger to get hunters mark from the beginning? I realise you don’t get as many attacks but the increase in damage would account for that over time wouldn’t it?
Thanks! I think getting to extra attack, scaling our unarmed strike damage, and getting more ki points outweighs the Hunter's Mark damage. Especially considering that we'd often have to be using our bonus action to cast and then transfer Hunter's Mark to a new target when our current one dies, meaning no bonus action unarmed strike(s) on those rounds.
I'm a little late here, but I think Gloom Stalker as your subclass would be way better. Dread ambusher for additional attack and movement speed fits right in with the theme of this build. Plus adding WIS to initiative rolls.
That's correct! I'm assuming you're always going to be making unarmed strikes each round - even if you run out of ki, you can still make one as a bonus action.
@@DnDDeepDive You just raised a fascinating point. The text says the unarmed attack has to be a part of the attack action. If your GM clears you to use your bonus action unarmed strike as eligible, then you can make your two weapon attacks every turn! I need to message my GM, thanks!
I might be misreading it, but it looks like the unarmed attack has to be a part of the attack action and not the bonus action. Given that Monk damage on it's own is undertuned, I wonder if there was a sage advice on this subject.
@@Vagran I see your point. Being that Kensei weapons are considered monk weapons, and the unarmed strike is triggered by making the attack action, I assumed that agile parry simply kicks in so long as you make an unarmed strike, but I can see the interpretation being otherwise. The power of agile parry is *greatly* reduced under that reading! Here's my plea to DMs the world over to house-rule that garbage, since, as you say, Monks can use all the help they can get :).
Once you gain the extra attack at 5th level the monk can then, as an attack action make 1 monk weapon attack (in this case the longsword) and 1 unarmed attack. Thus, allowing him to gain the +2AC from Agile Parry. Looking at Sage Advice the question was asked: “When you use an Extra Attack do you have to use the same weapon for all the attacks?” The answer is “Extra Attack imposes NO limitation on what you use for the attacks. You can use regular weapons, improvised weapons, unarmed strikes, or a combination of these options for the attacks” The key phrase here is “a combination of these options for the attacks”.
Agile Parry says " If you make an unarmed strike as part of the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei weapon, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and you aren't incapacitated. " This means you MUST use your Attack action to make an unarmed strike NOT your Monk weapon. Attacking with your Monk weapon does NOT qualify, and martial arts states that your Bonus action is an unamred strike. Which also does NOT qualify because it is your BONUS action and NOT your Attack action. So Agile Parry means you only get the +2 AC if your give up using your weapon and only perform unarmed attacks.
problem is, you already get that 1d4 (and better, as you level) by using your bonus attack for unarmed strike (even without spending ki), so I'm not sure that this would be an improvement. And, of course, you couldn't benefit from GWM because it requires the weapon to be heavy, which prevents you from doing a lot of important monkish things...
This is exactly what I'm doing for my character. I'm trying to model it after a Demon Slayer character, so this multiclass is PERFECT. Especially with the proficiencies and other bonuses they get.
This build has me thinking of another build style that would be interesting to see, the combination of tank and sustained dpr. What builds can best balance being able to survive combat while also dishing out the biggest hits.
You actually do want to spend the ki point on deflect missile. IF you have a good target. Now why is that? First we must understand the exact value of a ki point. Flurry of blows lets you make 2 attacks as a bonus action, but since you can already make 1 unarmed attack as bonus action, so the ki point gains you 1 extra unarmed attack. -Whatever this missile is, it is likely to do better damage than 1d4 +dex. -Also there is a small chance you can take out an enemy a little sooner than if you waited for your turn to take this extra attack. That would potentially stop them from taking their turn, but even if the enemy has already had their turn, it might open up the battlefield for your allies to move more freely without taking opportunity attacks. -Lastly, there is a chance you want to spend your bonus action on something other than attacking on your next turn. Of course you probably don't want to make this attack if you have disadvantage because of range, or being in melee, and perhaps the biggest one. If your party is trying to focus down one specific enemy first, and they are not in range. Save your ki for that guy.
A thought: Would it be worth it to take 3 levels into fighter and take the champion subclass? Even starting as a fighter to use d10 hit dice over the monk's d8. Notable benefit: Dueling Great weapon fighting Protection Action surge Second wind Improved critical!
worth a look, sure! That said, a lot of the benefits you list you either already get from the Ranger (dueling) or you can't use in conjunction with martial arts/unarmed defense (Protection, Great Weapon Fighting). Also, we're already getting a d10 by using a longsword with two hands, as that's not prohibited, as the longsword is versatile but not heavy.
No... Ranger has no unarmed strikes, which make up a large part of the build’s damage (since you get two, with Ki). Also no stunning strike, or, well, walking on water etc. :)
@@DnDDeepDive I have not read your spreadsheets so forgive me if the answer is there but, have you ever made a video covering how you do the math of stuff like your builds, calculating sustained damage builds, and calculating nova damage? If not and it's more of a "learn math you plebian" thing, I respect you for keeping hold of the "Maybe someone else did the math" market. Your great attitude and dazzling smile make listening to numbers alot easier, cheers!
@@samuelparis7218 i used to do it all manually, then I discovered this little gem... forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?582779-Comprehensive-DPR-Calculator-(v2-0))
I like to call my build a "Ranker!" Human Variant, Kensei 17 + Gloomstalker 3, Goodberry, Hunter's Mark, Zephyr Strike, Archery fighting style, 10 20 14 8 20 8 Ability Scores, and Sharpshooter feat. Use Ki for Deft Strikes and Focused Aim to get a bonus action Sharpshooter attack. Once Ki runs out use Kensei's Shoot or Hunter's Mark. Prefer backgrounds that give thieves' tools proficiency. Thematically I imagine a Zen archer.
I really appreciate your video. I wanted to play a wood elf Path of the Kensei so I could use a long sword with a dex- build. I like the idea of an agile elf warrior wielding a long sword in two hands. Your suggestions for making this build more viable are great. But I have to ask, wouldn’t a hex blade be a lot better so you could use the hex curse and the spell curse, for every short rest? Then you only need a one level dip. If you did go second level you could get the mage armor invocation to improve your AC too (edit: I looked this up and it mage armor doesn’t work with the monk unarmored bonus). Ranger is cooler thematically though.
Yeah I did a side by side comparison with Lock instead of Ranger but ultimately decided Ranger for both flavor and because you don’t have to invest in Charisma and can just focus on Dex and Wis which are needed by both. Also, the Fighting style is a nice little bump, as is the d8 once per round. In the end, the damage is very comparable (though the lock dip takes a little lead early on.)
So bad I never knew this channel before ! Already subscribed ! I've played a Githzerai Way of the Long Death Monk / Gloomstalker Ranger and it was amazing ! Hunter's Mark really adds up with the number of attacks a monk can dish out and you can still benefit from the spell casting. It is one of my favorite MCs for monks. I've played an Evil Tortle Monk/Paladin of Vengeance (STR-based) and it was probably the stronger, mechanically. You can "dump" DEX, still have an awesome AC, access to hunter's mark and you can Divine Smite with your Monk Weapon. Finally, my third MC for Monk is Cleric. I'm currently playing a Tiefling Monk/Cleric of Light, for thematic purposes. It is awesome to impose disadvantage with reaction and you have a couple of spells to use you concentration. Great content, will keep watching for more !
Ah, but this is why we go Path of the Kensei! "Kensei Weapons. Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don’t already have it. Weapons of the chosen types are monk weapons for you."
@@senorelroboto2 ha ha - right, I think I said something like "if you're here to be the ultimate Kung-fu master OR you're going to 17, take Open Hand and just embrace the sub-par damage" :)
@@DnDDeepDive Too true. Too bad you have to practically play a multi-year campaign to get that sweet "Pai-Mei Special" of insta-death-or-10-d10-necrotic- damage attack. Good things do come to those who wait.
have you ever made a Gnome Rune knight crusher multi class or a gnome rune knight monk. so many interesting ideas and the coolness of taking this small creature and making him large wreaking havoc on the battlefield
I am sorry, but I don't see this build working very well. You put some good numbers on the screen, but that is not what real combat looks like. First. you are looking at a +2 or +3 to concentration, meaning you have a 30-35 % chance of losing hunter's mark every time you take damage. Which you will do, since you are a melee combatant with no way good way to get out of melee combat. Second: basic combat tacticts states, the whole party should target down the enemies 1 at a time, because 2 enemies at half health, deals double as much damage as 1 enemy at full health. Because a competent party will do their best to focus 1 target. You will have set up your hunter's mark almost every other round, preventing you from using your bonus action to attack. Third: you only have 3 1st level spell slots for your hunter's marks. So you will run out really quickly if you lose concentration a couple of times.
Love your presentations but Hex and Hunter's Mark are different. Hunter's Mark "you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a WEAPON attack" while Hex "you deal an extra 1d6 necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack" - no weapon requirement so it applies to unarmed attacks and spell attacks whereas I don't think Hunter's Mark would.
Right! However, as per the Sage Advice Compendium: “The game often makes exceptions to general rules, and this is an important exception: that unarmed strikes count as melee weapon attacks despite not being weapons.” So I think we’re in the clear here. Results may vary, depending on the DM of course :).
Recently rewatched Equilibrium starring Christian Bale and it got me thinking of a Kensei Monk 8/Hunter Ranger 12 build. Point Buy: 15 Dex and Wis 12 Int and Con 8 Str and Cha Custom Lineage (+2 Dex) Feat: Gunner (+1 Dex, proficiency with firearms, ignore the loading property and no disadvantage firing at a target within 5ft aka melee range, just like the short range Gun Kata in the final scene between Preston and DuPont.) Skill: Perception Custom Background: Insight, Sleight of Hand Monk 8: Str and Dex saving throws, Athletics, Acrobatics Martial Arts Unarmoured Defence/Movement (15ft at Monk lvl 8) 8 ki points to spend on Step of the Wind, Patient Defence or Flurry of Blows Deflect Missiles Ki-Fueled Attack (Crossbow Expert doesn’t apply but you’ll be able to unload a bunch of shots later on, which is handy for going one on one with DuPont) Kensei Weapons (by the end it’s 2 pistols from the DM’s guide which deal d10 piercing damage and a longsword substituting the ceremonial katana held by Tetragrammaton Clerics) Kensei Shot (kind of moot tbh) Agile Parry (which will get insane by the end of the build) Way of the Brush (painting if you want to understand art after going off the Prozium and regaining your emotions or Calligraphy if you want to be a god) Slow Fall ASI (+2 Dex to cap it off for maximum accuracy but not yet, that’s coming at lvl 8) Extra Attack Stunning Strike Ki Empowered Strikes/Magical Kensei Weapons (to punch through thick kevlar vests and motorcycle helmets) Deft Strike (which will help with the double tap action later on) Evasion (the Gun Kata is based on the most predictable firing positions that assailants will take up in order to dodge enemy fire and return it more precisely) Stillness of Mind (you don’t need Prozium to keep your centre) Sharpshooter (somehow you never miss. You’re one of the TV Trope codifiers of Improbably Aiming Skills) Ranger 12: Investigation Favoured Foe (damage now is better than damage later, sacrificing a bonus action for a d6 that you can get for 1 ki from a Deft Strike or this feature 6 times per short/long rest is a lot better than one tied to your spell slots. Also, Favoured Enemy is incredibly situational.) Canny (Perception to shoot behind your back or Athletics to mitigate the dumped Strength along with your saving throw proficiency.) Fighting Style - Archery (you use guns. ‘Nuff said.) Zephyr Strike (makes you harder to pin down in combat) Jump (save thise Ki for Deft Strike) Hunter’s Prey - Colossus Slayer (for 1d10 + 1d6 + 1d8 + 5 on one attack, 1d10 + 1d6 +5 on another and 1d10 + 5 on your bonus action gained by spending a ki on Deft Strike and activating Ki-Fueled Attack.) Observant (odd numbers don’t do anything and you are very perceptive.) Roving (not in character but can be useful) Defensive Tactic - Multiattack Defence (at the end, it’s 26 AC with UD, this and Agile Parry, making you very hard to hit.) ASI (+2 Wis) Enhance Ability (you’re kind of a Mary Sue) Darkvision (you’re relying on more than muzzle flash to detect enemy movement in the darkness) Land’s Stride (more mobility) Nature’s Veil (again, not in character but still can be useful) Conjure Barrage Multiattack - Volley (This is the true Gun Kata and can clear you a hallway’s worth of guards on your way to the big boss) ASI (+2 Wis, capping it off for max AC, spell save and Monk DC and perception, active and passive.)
Keen blade doesn't seem like a very good ability. It only applies to 1 of your attacks. +3 to hit and damage sounds like a lot, but if you want your +2 AC from kensei, you need to do unarmed attacks for one of your attacks that are part of the attack action, and your flurry of blows is also unarmed. So 1 of your 3-4 attacks gets +3 to hit and damage, at the price of 3 ki points and your bonus action. So this is about how your combat is going to go. Round 1: Bonus action: Keen Blade Action: 1 sword attack, 1 unarmed (to get +2 AC) Round 2: Bonus action: Hunter's mark Action: 1 sword attack, 1 unarmed (to get +2 AC) Round 3: Action: 1 sword attack, 1 unarmed (to get +2 AC) Bonus action: 2 unarmed strikes. Round 4: Bonus action: reapply your hunter's mark (If your team did their job, your original target should be dead by now). Action: 1 sword attack, 1 unarmed (to get +2 AC) Round 5: Action: 1 sword attack, 1 unarmed (to get +2 AC) Bonus action: 2 unarmed strikes. Round 6: Combat is winding down, and you get to use your great speed to take down a fleeing enemy.
I, too, love the concept of the monk and it is my favorite class. I have hated that it was so underpowered for so long. My first character when I came back to D&D was a Kensi Dragon Born. My DM wouldn't allow multiclass so I never thought of it...but this seems AMAZING! I am going to rebuild that character...now to find a new game that I can play this!
Quick note on One with Blade, it's use for this multiclass shines on the rounds where you cast/move hunters mark. You won't get your BA unarmed/fob, but it nets you a bit of extra damage that doesn't require a second roll. So basically first round of combat is Hunter's mark - Longsword attack, spend ki to do your MA die damage, second attack Longsword as you aren't trying to trigger your BA unarmed or FoB. Second round Longsword attack, unarmed attack spend ki, FoB on BA.
Instead of Colossus Slayer for the extra 1d8 damage, I'd take Horde Breaker for an extra attack which if it hits does LOTS more damage, plus it's another chance to stun.
I think at this point I’ve seen at least all of the D&D Optimized builds and I just went back to watch this one. I gotta say, seeing Colby in the early days is charming af lol.
using the martial arts feature of the monk you can use dex instead of str for attack rolls of monk weapons (as long as they aren't heavy) and unarmed strikes. by using dedicated weapon on a longsword, the monk can now use dex with longswords.
I love the idea of the swords...person with Kensai taking a longsword (katana) but with a Kenshin flare, using quick draw type attacks but never fully drawing the weapon. Instead shoving the hilt into the enemy, then slamming the sheath down the blade to generate a second impact or partially drawing the weapon to stop an attack or quick drawing the hilt into the opponents weapon before it gains momentum kinda emphasizing my +2 to ac from the Kensai feature and/or even your wisdom bonus to AC since you're well trained in watching your enemies attacks. (mechanically making unarmed strikes which works cause it's blugeoning damage but for flavor using the sword hilt and sheath) I've got ideas for trying to give the longsword reach by binding up the blade in the sheath before it's fully drawn or using a chain but I'm not gonna force my DM to try to figure out/balance that out for me 😂 all that said though with Tashas changes I feel Kensai is best suited for ranged attacks over melee really
I'm totally late here but I love monks as well. I think utilizing their speed and ki point dash action with the mobile feat is a great way to go. You will sacrifice your damage by a ton but you will be so hard to even target with an attack the DM will be forced to throw you in a 30 by 30 room. I love your build so much though. A monk that can hang in damage dealing is so cool!
You could do monk/druid ultimate terrain controller with pushing, stuns and knocking from monk and spells like entangle, fog, gust of wind from druid, not to mention spike growth, wall of stone and bones of the earth
As Life from the Loamly said, it can be better vs higher AC targets. I'd also add that it is good to use when you crit, as you would then add 2 martial arts die.
I love the Kensei and I would love to see you take another run at it. The way of bushido warrior I am such a big fan of rp wise. Though my party does bot always love my Tabaxi who refuses to sneak up on enemies
Love this build Cory! For all my first 4 characters I played all non-magical characters (a Battlemaster Fighter, A Barb/Stronk, and a Theif rogue). Even now in my first 5e foray into playing a magical PC I can't help but take half fighter levels 😅. I appreciate the ranger multiclass and honestly never thought of it. What's your opinion on this build now post tasha's what with Dedicated Weapon, the Crusher feat, etc.? Would you still go Kensei Monk? My thoughts are it might be more optimized to take the 4 levels in ranger for the ASI and have a higher balance of WIS and DEX while going Open Hand Monk for more battlefield control/advantage generation.
This is funny. For a known optimizer, your fave class is the worst class in dnd 5e: the monk. haha. Anyway nice to know. Mine's the ranger. I don't play monks anymore because they aren't good at dmg, I'd probably lean more into a debuffer type monk with dmg as just secondary, while also avoiding weapon use as I wouldn't feel "monkish" anymore. I'd use mercy monk 6 for the auto-poison effect (no save), and of course battlemaster 4 for action surge and a bunch of maneuvers for more control/debuff (with a higher save dc compared to stunning strike since you can base it off of dex). I wouldn't use ki points on stunning strike. I'd just save those ki on flurry of blows and focused aim. Going with battlemaster allows you to get reaction attacks like riposte or brace so you can even impose poisoned to enemies attacking you. moreover, you can still contribute even if the enemy is immune to poison by either imposing fear, prone, or disarm. Plus as a mercy monk, you can function as a backup healer. I'd pick up the superior technique fighting style and martial adept feat to just add more superiority dice and maneuvers to make it feel like i have more martial arts moves. I'd reflavor/rename the maneuvers as martial arts moves. Action surge of course for the times you need to tag multiple BBEGs. Picking up mobile at later levels will help with the moving around.
@@DnDDeepDive Yeah, imo its arguably the best "monk". The kensei for me feels more like an asian themed weapon user in the vein of the samurai. Though i think with a mercy monk, its best to have a conversation with the DM before playing it. If the DM plans to run a campaign filled primarily with poison immune enemies (like facing alot of undead), then the mercy monk will feel useless in most fights. In those cases, a monk player would be better off with maybe kensei or sun soul (if DM will use alot of monsters vulnerable to radiant dmg).
Meh. The problem with Monks is that they are "well rounded" in a game that relies on "focused roles". They seem like they are really fun to play, and I get a lot of ideas from them. Their prime Stats (Dex, Wis and Con) all cover the most common Saving Throws. But, ultimately, they fall short. I've considered a Monk/Barbarian(Zealot) mix for the +1d6, but it takes 3 levels of Barb to get that.
i wouldn't say they are well rounded. i think the main problem is they are mediocre in all possible archetypes (striking, contolling, tanking). they aren't supports, summoners or healers either. and yes you are right. 5e is all about hyper-focus in a role (being excellent at one thing) with possible elements of other roles over being a jack of all trades. I think thats a decent multiclass if you really wanted barb and wanted to play a str monk. but if you don't like to invest too many levels you can just get 2 barb for rage and reckless attack. if you wanted a dex/wis monk then, definitely pick something else than barb. i recommend fighter for action surge and unarmed fighting style. battlemaster is also a good subclass to increase dmg and add control elements.
Rob, when I say "well rounded", I mean "jack of all trade, master of none". They're not bad characters at a lot of things, they just arent great at any one thing. I wanted the Zealot for the extra D6 per round. But going Str on Monk stretches the stats out a lot. Of course, what I _really_ want to play is a Monk with Tavern Brawler, where any Improvised Weapon counts as a Martial Arts Weapon. I to walk into a fight, and take up any random thing at all. Or just take his shirt off, and kick people's asses with that. Or a shoe. :) Still, the extra D6 from Zealot would have been nice.
@@Joemantler yeah you could say the monk is a jack of all trades (though he doesn't have alot of trades unlike the bard which is what i meant). the monk is more of a jack of some trades, master of none. i agree that hes not bad at those some things but in 5e, if you aren't at least great in one thing (which will be your typical role in a party) then it's a bad class. in fact monk is widely regarded as the worst class in 5e. agreed that would make you a bit MAD if you didn't give up dex/con/wis. i'd personally just do it this way via point buy: 15 str (+racial bonus), 14 dex, 12 con, 8 int, 14 wis, 8 cha. if you're really just after the d6 bonus on zealot, then there are other classes that can give you that (or close to it but with lesser level investments) or even better (but will have concentration). stuff like favored enemy, hex, hunter's mark, sneak attack, maneuvers, divine smite, unarmed fighting style, colossus slayer, dreadful strikes, gathering swarm, hexblade's curse, , etc. if you really want to play a tavern brawler monk, i suggest to go for it. that can be optimized anyway. I think battlemaster again just fits well as it alleviates your action economy problem (no need to spend your bonus action to get a dmg boost so you can just use flurry of blows or grapple with your bonus action). fits with the theme as well as you have moves like trip attack, push attack, grappling attack, brace, riposte, etc. just be forewarned that it'll take a lot of levels before martial arts improvised weapon becomes a significant improvement as your martial arts die only moves up to a d8 at level 11 monk. i suggest just ignoring martial arts altogether (stick with your d4 or at most d6) and get dmg bonuses like the ones i mentioned above from other classes which can give you a better dmg bump than what the monks give you (they are very bad at this but if you want to major in monk, go for it) with less levels invested. if what you're more interested in playing is a tavern brawler (not really a monk) then it opens up more options for us to make it better. i admit the visuals of dealing alot of dmg by beating an enemy over the head with your shoe is funny. i imagine you taking your shoe off and laying the smackdown on a giant. lol.
imo depends on what you want to do but i'd say definitely not that combo. thats very bonus action intensive already with rage, step of the wind, flurry of blows, wild magic (if you roll the bonus action) and astral arms. imo at its base both classes already eat up alot of bonus actions. best to pick subclasses that give you something without spending your bonus action... something like zealot and mercy. personally, i'd throw in 2 levels of fighter for action surge and the unarmed fighting style.
I'd love to see a kensei monk with the new features in Tasha's and the feats Gunner and sharp shooter, I think you'd be getting 3 shots with the pistol any around you spend a kid point on your action to add martial arts die damage to one of your shots. Alternatively you could use one hit to stunning strike and then the second attack and bonus stack with the pistol in close quarters.
Sounds good, I have been playing with this concept in case my current character kicks the bucket. I'm considering taking mink to 5 for extra attack and then fighter for a one level dip to get archery fighting style. I considered 2 into ranger for it and hunters mark though but I'd miss out in an ASI so I'm not sure if that is worth it. Then again who plays to 20 🤣
Come join the conversation at reddit.com/r/DnDoptimized/
"Those Ki points are very valuable".
Missed opportunity: Ki points are key.
joke would have been a bit off
@@lord6617 yeah if this was a musical I'd say they missed a ki
🙄 my gf started watching this with me.. and I was like cool maybe she's getting more interested in d&d!!
Nope
She just thinks your hot. 😆🤣😂
Ha ha! Well, tell her I'm flattered, and let her know that *you're* getting a shout out in the episode I plan on recording today :). Hope to have it up tomorrow sometime.
Haha 🎉
"There is more to life than numbers people... Have I taught you nothing?!" hehe Love it
Tongue firmly in cheek ;)
It aggravates me that WotC thinks monks wouldn't be proficient with polearms and other two-handed/heavy weapons
Literally some of the most iconic monk weapons
@@AllThingsFascinateI swear, Monk suffers from its design space competing with Fighter, and WotC distinguishes them by making everything the monk does worse to make sure Fighter gets its points
I love the Last Airbender T-Shirt choice for a monk build.
Thank you! I've been sad that more people haven't mentioned it :'(
@@DnDDeepDive My character took the this Tradition Way of the Kensei, he is a Variant Human name Makish.
Hey, I love thinking about optimization builds and I’ve been looking for months to find quality content like this. After wading through a bunch of trash like Nerdarchy it’s so refreshing to find thoughtful multi class builds supported with good math.
Thank you!
Thanks John! I was in the same boat and, since I couldn't find anything out there that was exactly what I wanted, I decided to just do it myself :P. Glad you're enjoying!
Checkout Treeantmonk too
@@Mr911superstar +1
@@DnDDeepDive if Thanos was good
The Ranger/Monk multi got a lot more interesting with Tashas!
Yup. more tools to work with to somehow make monks competitive/viable.
I’m pretty shocked he didn’t recommend Gloomstalker.
@@logancuster8035 Colby likes sustained over burst. he likes reliable over situational. gloomstalkers are the quintessential burst class. they are the poster boy for "in the right situations, they are very powerful" but in the wrong campaigns, they are meh.
with that said, i would've gone gloomstalker as well for more attacks, access to aid/rope trick and an easy way to generate advantage/surprise.
This is incredible content. I love looking into the most optimized way of playing characters. I often don't end up playing my characters out exactly the most optimized way but looking at the most optimized way is soooo helpful to then decide what is willing to be sacrificed for flavor while still having a strong character.
Thanks and glad you're enjoying! :)
Level 1 See above [monk 1]
Level 2 @12:57 [monk 2]
Level 3 @15:00 [monk 3: way of the kensei]
Level 4 @17:29 [monk 4: bump dex]
Level 5 @17:50 [monk 5]
Level 6 @21:20 [ranger 1]: talk to DM about revised ranger]
Level 7 See above [ranger 2: dueling-FS]
Level 8 @26:49 [ranger 3: Hunter-Colossus Slayer]
Level 9 @27:25 [monk 6]
Lvel 10 See above [monk 7]
Level 11 @30:39 [monk 8: bump dex]
Level 12 @30:58 [monk 9]
Level 13 @31:20 [monk 10]
Level 14 See above [monk 11]
Level 15 @34:06 [monk 12: bump wis]
Level 16 @34:27 [monk 13]
Level 17 @34:35 [monk 14]
these are good timestamps. i saw that you've done this for a couple of other vids. keep it up. :)
I'd love to see a Way of Open Hand/Battlemaster build from you. Or even a Bladesinger/Monk (MAD) but even possible? Great video! What would you want to see added or fixed for Monks to make them on par with other classes?
I love playing monks and subclassing with a weapon as the focus is a route I've never taken before! I'm glad I found this video
The bird race doesn't take away from the wall climbing or slow fall I'd actually argue the opposite since if your flying at 40 feet (cause it's based of walking with is great) and someone reduces your speed to zero you no longer take all the fall damage you'd get cause slow fall and if your ever in a cave or cramped dungeon like the name of the game you can still walk up walls and keep aerial superiority without the space for flight.
How about Variant Human with the Magic Initiate feat for either Hex or Hunter's Mark to keep it a 20th level Monk?
Yeah, the only downside there of course is that your spell isn't very sustainable. Still, a nice option for at least one encounter a day, and lets you keep all your Monkiness :).
@@DnDDeepDive Especially post Tashe's, Ranger dip is far better. Favored Foe is Proficiency Bonus times per day, so Monk levels make it better. Stacked with Hunter's Mark from Ranger, you have enough to last all day long even at high level. Monk capstone it just, bad. It only helps if one has used all Ki points. Even if only for levels 19 and 20, a Ranger dip is better than staying full Monk.
@@brettmajeske3525 IMO martials are best multiclassed as aside from fighter most dont have good capstones and its tough for them to keep up with the spellcasters without the versatility and optimization that multiclassing provides. Dipping into 1-2 other martial classes such as the fighter and ranger, helps shore up the monk's weaknesses.
I feel like all the people who love the monk are all the people who played it as their first 5e class.
One of my buddies in college ran a game, and I decided to try it out, and now I just keep thinking of new ways to integrate the monk into builds. A lot of stuff there that people underestimate.
Yes… my first was a Lizardfolk monk and I still dream of them…
There was a missed opportunity here to call the Warlock Variant the "Foot-Lock(er)"
This is a cool aesthetic to think about. Cool reason to come up with a one handed long sword only user, which I rarely see in D&D.
*I would love more Monk & Cleric builds .*
*[ Edit 1 ] Tasha's adds a lot of new Feats , new alt features & new additional features .*
*That can really give the monk a huge boost .*
*At level 1 .*
*Monks don't have ki points .*
*They get it at level 2 & starts with 2 ki points .*
*[ Edit 2 ] The ( Default ) restrictions on monk weapons are actually Simply weapons + Short swords that lack the Heavy or Two-Handed properties .*
*Which makes a quarter Staff / Staff a odd edge case .*
What I'm thinking is a kensei/gloom stalker, race is grung. Magic item would be boots of striding and springing. Important feats are mobile and sharpshooter. He will have insane hops and be a hard hitting archer.
this build would be really good with the gloom stalker ranger subclass
I really enjoyed these videos my man, but they're so prolonged for my quarantine-attention-deficit ass :(
Ha ha - I always think I'm going to make them shorter and punchier but I have neither the editing chops nor, apparently, the self-control to not be a wind bag :). If it helps, you could always try the podcast form and listen while you're driving or something, but that might put you to sleep and I would hate to cause an accident :P.
Try 1.25 speed! Sometimes my ADHD brain can handle the 1.5!
Another possibility is go go ranged with Kensei, take the Longbow, take Archery style, at level 9 (Ranger 3, Monk 6) you can make 2 ranged attacks per round doing 1d8+1d6+1d4+DEX and are able to spend a Ki to add another 1d6 to an attack, if they are already at less than their max HP you can also do another 1d8 per round with colossus slayer. With your massive mobility you need never get into hand to hand and with sharpshooter it just gets nastier, and unlike other archers if they close big deal you can now make unarmed attacks.
GloomStalker is the way to go with the wisdom based initiative bonus, plus the extra attack on the first round of each combat.
Monks are cool ... super cool.
But they are the worst designed 5e charcter by far ... ranger was the weakest yes ... monk is just badly designed
So many fluff which is great please give me fluff thats why fighters are bland they lack fluff their subclass give the fluff.
Monks ... as a class all about honing the body and making it perfect ... why its not a d12 hit die class ??
why the unarmed start at a 1d4 .. the same as a tavern brawler ... heck now the unarmed fighting style of a fighter deal more damage than a monk a 1d6 or a 1d8 right at level one !!!! so start at 1d6 up to 1d12 for unarmed strikes
stunning strike something so broken yet so heavily resisted and a ki burner . YES it let you potentially have a creature have a quad disadvantage on a save of one of the least immune condetions but thats burning 5 ki points !!!
the diamond soul amazing .... way too late at level 14 ... spread that out at level 7 gain one save of your choice. one can choose dex to double down on the dex save or cover another stat like wisdom . at level 11 do it again and at level 14 give the last two saves.
empty body AMAZING !! again way too late. eats up alot of ki . takes an action to do. and then be resistant TO EVERY THING ...
and Astral self for only yourself .... how is that ever useful !! who is crazy enough to go to the astral plane alone . so change it into an attack that force someone else to go to the astral self and take punch of psychic damage !!! think of doctor strange and the ancient one .
and finally ... one of the worst cap stones ... what would 4 ki points DO ... sigh
There is alot A LOT of conflict within the Monk and its just badly designed its too mad at least Barbarian MAD you can just focus on Con would boost your AC and make you more survivable.
I both love and hate the monk how its super Janky in 5e but hold so much flavor.... same as the ranger so much flavor .... so bad and weak. at least before tasha
agreed. another issue with the monk is it doesnt have a combat identity it clearly excels in. is it a controller? is it a striker? is it a tank? excelling at one thing and being decent at others is better than being above average in multiple things in 5e, especially since we operate in a party concept. the issue with stunning strike as well is that unlike battlemaster maneuvers which are based off of your attack stat, unless you're an astral monk, the save DC will always suck. lastly building around unarmed dmg and no armor will usually be suboptimal once the party gets magical weapons and armor. alot of dms dunno what to give a monk and will usually give them fluff magic items. this is only circumvented if the dm lets you wish list or buy magic items.
I really enjoy you breaking down the numbers. I feel like after a certain point people play monks for flavor and action economy. However if I may make a suggestion, I would look into going with the gloom stalker ranger. You can add your wisdom score to initiative so you can make sure you always go first and also has some other cool features with it as well
Aye - this one came out before Gloom Stalker was a thing, but I’ve got a build for them available :)
Hey Colby love your work! Your depth and detail in your builds is outstanding.
Is there a reason you didn’t start with 2 levels of Ranger to get hunters mark from the beginning? I realise you don’t get as many attacks but the increase in damage would account for that over time wouldn’t it?
Thanks! I think getting to extra attack, scaling our unarmed strike damage, and getting more ki points outweighs the Hunter's Mark damage. Especially considering that we'd often have to be using our bonus action to cast and then transfer Hunter's Mark to a new target when our current one dies, meaning no bonus action unarmed strike(s) on those rounds.
I'm a little late here, but I think Gloom Stalker as your subclass would be way better. Dread ambusher for additional attack and movement speed fits right in with the theme of this build. Plus adding WIS to initiative rolls.
agreed. plus perpetual advantage as long as you aren't in broad daylight in an open space without anything that casts shadows.
Gloom stalker is from Tasha’s right? Cause I believe this video was before that was released.
A spear is the best monk weapon. Same damage dice, versatile, and can be thrown.
It also has a different damage type than your unarmed strikes which can be useful from time to time.
I thought the Kensei Monk only gets the parry +2 to AC after making an unarmed attack while holding the kinsei weapon.
That's correct! I'm assuming you're always going to be making unarmed strikes each round - even if you run out of ki, you can still make one as a bonus action.
@@DnDDeepDive You just raised a fascinating point. The text says the unarmed attack has to be a part of the attack action. If your GM clears you to use your bonus action unarmed strike as eligible, then you can make your two weapon attacks every turn! I need to message my GM, thanks!
I might be misreading it, but it looks like the unarmed attack has to be a part of the attack action and not the bonus action. Given that Monk damage on it's own is undertuned, I wonder if there was a sage advice on this subject.
@@Vagran I see your point. Being that Kensei weapons are considered monk weapons, and the unarmed strike is triggered by making the attack action, I assumed that agile parry simply kicks in so long as you make an unarmed strike, but I can see the interpretation being otherwise. The power of agile parry is *greatly* reduced under that reading! Here's my plea to DMs the world over to house-rule that garbage, since, as you say, Monks can use all the help they can get :).
Once you gain the extra attack at 5th level the monk can then, as an attack action make 1 monk weapon attack (in this case the longsword) and 1 unarmed attack. Thus, allowing him to gain the +2AC from Agile Parry.
Looking at Sage Advice the question was asked: “When you use an Extra Attack do you have to use the same weapon for all the attacks?” The answer is “Extra Attack imposes NO limitation on what you use for the attacks. You can use regular weapons, improvised weapons, unarmed strikes, or a combination of these options for the attacks”
The key phrase here is “a combination of these options for the attacks”.
Aarakrocra would be best to be honest... the ability to do slashing instead of bludgeoning if you wanted has been very helpfull
The way of long death monk and Fiend patron pact of the blade. Interesting combination of features I think.
Agile Parry says " If you make an unarmed strike as part of
the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei
weapon, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee
weapon. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of
your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and
you aren't incapacitated. "
This means you MUST use your Attack action to make an unarmed strike NOT your Monk weapon. Attacking with your Monk weapon does NOT qualify, and martial arts states that your Bonus action is an unamred strike. Which also does NOT qualify because it is your BONUS action and NOT your Attack action.
So Agile Parry means you only get the +2 AC if your give up using your weapon and only perform unarmed attacks.
Correct - user "Vagran" and I hashed this out in some previous comments - no impact on your DPR, of course, but definitely hurts your tankiness!
Returning the projectile is essentially the same as a flurry of blows though. Its essentially 1 ki for an extra attack.
The expert class ranger doesn't require concentration for hunters mark and you get it at level 1. You could also take hex from magic initiate feat.
How does the DPR change if you take Polearm Master at 4th and stay with the Quarterstaff or Spear so you get the bonus 1d4 on your attacks?
problem is, you already get that 1d4 (and better, as you level) by using your bonus attack for unarmed strike (even without spending ki), so I'm not sure that this would be an improvement. And, of course, you couldn't benefit from GWM because it requires the weapon to be heavy, which prevents you from doing a lot of important monkish things...
I think if you want to go ranger 4, take it after monk 8 to not delay combat abilities
This is exactly what I'm doing for my character. I'm trying to model it after a Demon Slayer character, so this multiclass is PERFECT. Especially with the proficiencies and other bonuses they get.
The push continues.
How about either a single build or a double build to build around, Tiny Servant?
Why do monks usually pick a quarterstaff? Wouldn't a spear be better because you can throw it?
This build has me thinking of another build style that would be interesting to see, the combination of tank and sustained dpr. What builds can best balance being able to survive combat while also dishing out the biggest hits.
You arent talking about a tank if what you're looking for is survival. A tank is about threat redirection 1st then survival.
The level 6 feature is also better to use on high ac targets, its guaranteed that way
Warlock: eldtritch blast. Now your monk is Goku.
You actually do want to spend the ki point on deflect missile. IF you have a good target. Now why is that?
First we must understand the exact value of a ki point. Flurry of blows lets you make 2 attacks as a bonus action, but since you can already make 1 unarmed attack as bonus action, so the ki point gains you 1 extra unarmed attack.
-Whatever this missile is, it is likely to do better damage than 1d4 +dex.
-Also there is a small chance you can take out an enemy a little sooner than if you waited for your turn to take this extra attack. That would potentially stop them from taking their turn, but even if the enemy has already had their turn, it might open up the battlefield for your allies to move more freely without taking opportunity attacks.
-Lastly, there is a chance you want to spend your bonus action on something other than attacking on your next turn.
Of course you probably don't want to make this attack if you have disadvantage because of range, or being in melee, and perhaps the biggest one. If your party is trying to focus down one specific enemy first, and they are not in range. Save your ki for that guy.
did you ever remake this build with the Tasha's Ranger, Custom Origin options? Level 1 Ranger is a huge deal now
I would probably want to homebrew an amulet that doubles ki. Or at least allows you to add your wisdom bonus, per level.
A Ronk? A Rank?
I would take horde breaker for the extra attack, since you are hitting pretty hard anyway even on a secondary target.
A thought: Would it be worth it to take 3 levels into fighter and take the champion subclass? Even starting as a fighter to use d10 hit dice over the monk's d8.
Notable benefit:
Dueling
Great weapon fighting
Protection
Action surge
Second wind
Improved critical!
worth a look, sure! That said, a lot of the benefits you list you either already get from the Ranger (dueling) or you can't use in conjunction with martial arts/unarmed defense (Protection, Great Weapon Fighting). Also, we're already getting a d10 by using a longsword with two hands, as that's not prohibited, as the longsword is versatile but not heavy.
Won't a 2WF Ranger pretty much do the same thing but better except for flavour?
No... Ranger has no unarmed strikes, which make up a large part of the build’s damage (since you get two, with Ki). Also no stunning strike, or, well, walking on water etc. :)
"a monk ranger would be cool.... huh. I wonder if.."
types monk ranger 5e into youtube, sees ur beautiful face
"knew it."
Ha ha yes! Ooof, this is an old one. Not my best work but... hope you enjoy :)
@@DnDDeepDive I have not read your spreadsheets so forgive me if the answer is there but, have you ever made a video covering how you do the math of stuff like your builds, calculating sustained damage builds, and calculating nova damage? If not and it's more of a "learn math you plebian" thing, I respect you for keeping hold of the "Maybe someone else did the math" market.
Your great attitude and dazzling smile make listening to numbers alot easier, cheers!
@@samuelparis7218 i used to do it all manually, then I discovered this little gem... forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?582779-Comprehensive-DPR-Calculator-(v2-0))
I like to call my build a "Ranker!" Human Variant, Kensei 17 + Gloomstalker 3, Goodberry, Hunter's Mark, Zephyr Strike, Archery fighting style, 10 20 14 8 20 8 Ability Scores, and Sharpshooter feat. Use Ki for Deft Strikes and Focused Aim to get a bonus action Sharpshooter attack. Once Ki runs out use Kensei's Shoot or Hunter's Mark. Prefer backgrounds that give thieves' tools proficiency. Thematically I imagine a Zen archer.
I really appreciate your video. I wanted to play a wood elf Path of the Kensei so I could use a long sword with a dex- build. I like the idea of an agile elf warrior wielding a long sword in two hands. Your suggestions for making this build more viable are great. But I have to ask, wouldn’t a hex blade be a lot better so you could use the hex curse and the spell curse, for every short rest? Then you only need a one level dip. If you did go second level you could get the mage armor invocation to improve your AC too (edit: I looked this up and it mage armor doesn’t work with the monk unarmored bonus). Ranger is cooler thematically though.
Yeah I did a side by side comparison with Lock instead of Ranger but ultimately decided Ranger for both flavor and because you don’t have to invest in Charisma and can just focus on Dex and Wis which are needed by both. Also, the Fighting style is a nice little bump, as is the d8 once per round. In the end, the damage is very comparable (though the lock dip takes a little lead early on.)
@@DnDDeepDive I have listened to several of your videos but I haven’t looked at your charts until just now. They are really cool!
@@aaronarndt5956 Thanks! Glad at least one person is getting some use out of them! :P
So bad I never knew this channel before ! Already subscribed !
I've played a Githzerai Way of the Long Death Monk / Gloomstalker Ranger and it was amazing !
Hunter's Mark really adds up with the number of attacks a monk can dish out and you can still benefit from the spell casting. It is one of my favorite MCs for monks. I've played an Evil Tortle Monk/Paladin of Vengeance (STR-based) and it was probably the stronger, mechanically. You can "dump" DEX, still have an awesome AC, access to hunter's mark and you can Divine Smite with your Monk Weapon.
Finally, my third MC for Monk is Cleric. I'm currently playing a Tiefling Monk/Cleric of Light, for thematic purposes. It is awesome to impose disadvantage with reaction and you have a couple of spells to use you concentration.
Great content, will keep watching for more !
Thanks and Welcome!
12:10 Longsword is not a Monk weapon though and you'll be using STR for your attack and damage rolls.
Ah, but this is why we go Path of the Kensei! "Kensei Weapons. Choose two types of weapons to be your kensei weapons: one melee weapon and one ranged weapon. Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties. The longbow is also a valid choice. You gain proficiency with these weapons if you don’t already have it. Weapons of the chosen types are monk weapons for you."
@@DnDDeepDive Whoops. You mentioned Exploding Palm Technique earlier, so I just got it in my head that you picked Open Hand. My B
@@senorelroboto2 ha ha - right, I think I said something like "if you're here to be the ultimate Kung-fu master OR you're going to 17, take Open Hand and just embrace the sub-par damage" :)
@@DnDDeepDive Too true. Too bad you have to practically play a multi-year campaign to get that sweet "Pai-Mei Special" of insta-death-or-10-d10-necrotic- damage attack. Good things do come to those who wait.
Monk/rogue/possibly fighter for a while build as a shadow monk/assassin rogue/echo knight fighter.
have you ever made a Gnome Rune knight crusher multi class or a gnome rune knight monk. so many interesting ideas and the coolness of taking this small creature and making him large wreaking havoc on the battlefield
I am sorry, but I don't see this build working very well.
You put some good numbers on the screen, but that is not what real combat looks like.
First. you are looking at a +2 or +3 to concentration, meaning you have a 30-35 % chance of losing hunter's mark every time you take damage. Which you will do, since you are a melee combatant with no way good way to get out of melee combat.
Second: basic combat tacticts states, the whole party should target down the enemies 1 at a time, because 2 enemies at half health, deals double as much damage as 1 enemy at full health. Because a competent party will do their best to focus 1 target. You will have set up your hunter's mark almost every other round, preventing you from using your bonus action to attack.
Third: you only have 3 1st level spell slots for your hunter's marks. So you will run out really quickly if you lose concentration a couple of times.
Six levels of Swarmkeeper Ranger, Two of Spore Druid and the Rest Monk of your choice. Most tactical monk build.
A monk that deals poison damage... sounds promising.
Doesn't hunter's mark only work with weapon attacks, and thus not unarmed strikes?
why does he he pronounce it "nitch", Its niche with a soft "ch". like "neesh"
Love your presentations but Hex and Hunter's Mark are different. Hunter's Mark "you deal an extra 1d6 damage to the target whenever you hit it with a WEAPON attack" while Hex "you deal an extra 1d6 necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack" - no weapon requirement so it applies to unarmed attacks and spell attacks whereas I don't think Hunter's Mark would.
Right! However, as per the Sage Advice Compendium: “The game often makes exceptions to general rules, and this is an important exception: that unarmed strikes count as melee weapon attacks despite not being weapons.” So I think we’re in the clear here. Results may vary, depending on the DM of course :).
@@DnDDeepDive Thanks for the clarification!
I would say Rank instead of Monger, food for thought :)
what would you suggest for a tabaxi who can use their claws?
Instead of Monger you could of called it Rank.
Recently rewatched Equilibrium starring Christian Bale and it got me thinking of a Kensei Monk 8/Hunter Ranger 12 build.
Point Buy:
15 Dex and Wis
12 Int and Con
8 Str and Cha
Custom Lineage (+2 Dex)
Feat: Gunner (+1 Dex, proficiency with firearms, ignore the loading property and no disadvantage firing at a target within 5ft aka melee range, just like the short range Gun Kata in the final scene between Preston and DuPont.)
Skill: Perception
Custom Background: Insight, Sleight of Hand
Monk 8:
Str and Dex saving throws, Athletics, Acrobatics
Martial Arts
Unarmoured Defence/Movement (15ft at Monk lvl 8)
8 ki points to spend on Step of the Wind, Patient Defence or Flurry of Blows
Deflect Missiles
Ki-Fueled Attack (Crossbow Expert doesn’t apply but you’ll be able to unload a bunch of shots later on, which is handy for going one on one with DuPont)
Kensei Weapons (by the end it’s 2 pistols from the DM’s guide which deal d10 piercing damage and a longsword substituting the ceremonial katana held by Tetragrammaton Clerics)
Kensei Shot (kind of moot tbh)
Agile Parry (which will get insane by the end of the build)
Way of the Brush (painting if you want to understand art after going off the Prozium and regaining your emotions or Calligraphy if you want to be a god)
Slow Fall
ASI (+2 Dex to cap it off for maximum accuracy but not yet, that’s coming at lvl 8)
Extra Attack
Stunning Strike
Ki Empowered Strikes/Magical Kensei Weapons (to punch through thick kevlar vests and motorcycle helmets)
Deft Strike (which will help with the double tap action later on)
Evasion (the Gun Kata is based on the most predictable firing positions that assailants will take up in order to dodge enemy fire and return it more precisely)
Stillness of Mind (you don’t need Prozium to keep your centre)
Sharpshooter (somehow you never miss. You’re one of the TV Trope codifiers of Improbably Aiming Skills)
Ranger 12:
Investigation
Favoured Foe (damage now is better than damage later, sacrificing a bonus action for a d6 that you can get for 1 ki from a Deft Strike or this feature 6 times per short/long rest is a lot better than one tied to your spell slots. Also, Favoured Enemy is incredibly situational.)
Canny (Perception to shoot behind your back or Athletics to mitigate the dumped Strength along with your saving throw proficiency.)
Fighting Style - Archery (you use guns. ‘Nuff said.)
Zephyr Strike (makes you harder to pin down in combat)
Jump (save thise Ki for Deft Strike)
Hunter’s Prey - Colossus Slayer (for 1d10 + 1d6 + 1d8 + 5 on one attack, 1d10 + 1d6 +5 on another and 1d10 + 5 on your bonus action gained by spending a ki on Deft Strike and activating Ki-Fueled Attack.)
Observant (odd numbers don’t do anything and you are very perceptive.)
Roving (not in character but can be useful)
Defensive Tactic - Multiattack Defence (at the end, it’s 26 AC with UD, this and Agile Parry, making you very hard to hit.)
ASI (+2 Wis)
Enhance Ability (you’re kind of a Mary Sue)
Darkvision (you’re relying on more than muzzle flash to detect enemy movement in the darkness)
Land’s Stride (more mobility)
Nature’s Veil (again, not in character but still can be useful)
Conjure Barrage
Multiattack - Volley (This is the true Gun Kata and can clear you a hallway’s worth of guards on your way to the big boss)
ASI (+2 Wis, capping it off for max AC, spell save and Monk DC and perception, active and passive.)
Can you try building a Master of elements Monk using way of 4 elements monk with a dip into genie warlock for the 10 minute short rests and cantrips?
Keen blade doesn't seem like a very good ability. It only applies to 1 of your attacks.
+3 to hit and damage sounds like a lot, but if you want your +2 AC from kensei, you need to do unarmed attacks for one of your attacks that are part of the attack action, and your flurry of blows is also unarmed. So 1 of your 3-4 attacks gets +3 to hit and damage, at the price of 3 ki points and your bonus action.
So this is about how your combat is going to go.
Round 1:
Bonus action: Keen Blade
Action: 1 sword attack, 1 unarmed (to get +2 AC)
Round 2:
Bonus action: Hunter's mark
Action: 1 sword attack, 1 unarmed (to get +2 AC)
Round 3:
Action: 1 sword attack, 1 unarmed (to get +2 AC)
Bonus action: 2 unarmed strikes.
Round 4:
Bonus action: reapply your hunter's mark (If your team did their job, your original target should be dead by now).
Action: 1 sword attack, 1 unarmed (to get +2 AC)
Round 5:
Action: 1 sword attack, 1 unarmed (to get +2 AC)
Bonus action: 2 unarmed strikes.
Round 6:
Combat is winding down, and you get to use your great speed to take down a fleeing enemy.
I, too, love the concept of the monk and it is my favorite class. I have hated that it was so underpowered for so long. My first character when I came back to D&D was a Kensi Dragon Born. My DM wouldn't allow multiclass so I never thought of it...but this seems AMAZING! I am going to rebuild that character...now to find a new game that I can play this!
Quick note on One with Blade, it's use for this multiclass shines on the rounds where you cast/move hunters mark. You won't get your BA unarmed/fob, but it nets you a bit of extra damage that doesn't require a second roll. So basically first round of combat is Hunter's mark - Longsword attack, spend ki to do your MA die damage, second attack Longsword as you aren't trying to trigger your BA unarmed or FoB. Second round Longsword attack, unarmed attack spend ki, FoB on BA.
Instead of Colossus Slayer for the extra 1d8 damage, I'd take Horde Breaker for an extra attack which if it hits does LOTS more damage, plus it's another chance to stun.
Monger.. as in.. warmonger... oh nevermind.
Question: I started as a level 1 ranger but I want to be a monk, when should I start taking monk levels?
ASAP :)
I think at this point I’ve seen at least all of the D&D Optimized builds and I just went back to watch this one. I gotta say, seeing Colby in the early days is charming af lol.
One question: How come we're taking a longsword that uses STR instead of DEX? Won't we miss on attack rolls?
using the martial arts feature of the monk you can use dex instead of str for attack rolls of monk weapons (as long as they aren't heavy) and unarmed strikes. by using dedicated weapon on a longsword, the monk can now use dex with longswords.
I love the idea of the swords...person with Kensai taking a longsword (katana) but with a Kenshin flare, using quick draw type attacks but never fully drawing the weapon. Instead shoving the hilt into the enemy, then slamming the sheath down the blade to generate a second impact or partially drawing the weapon to stop an attack or quick drawing the hilt into the opponents weapon before it gains momentum kinda emphasizing my +2 to ac from the Kensai feature and/or even your wisdom bonus to AC since you're well trained in watching your enemies attacks. (mechanically making unarmed strikes which works cause it's blugeoning damage but for flavor using the sword hilt and sheath) I've got ideas for trying to give the longsword reach by binding up the blade in the sheath before it's fully drawn or using a chain but I'm not gonna force my DM to try to figure out/balance that out for me 😂 all that said though with Tashas changes I feel Kensai is best suited for ranged attacks over melee really
I'm totally late here but I love monks as well. I think utilizing their speed and ki point dash action with the mobile feat is a great way to go. You will sacrifice your damage by a ton but you will be so hard to even target with an attack the DM will be forced to throw you in a 30 by 30 room. I love your build so much though. A monk that can hang in damage dealing is so cool!
Path of the beast barbarian plz
Gosh i love that intro music
You could do monk/druid ultimate terrain controller with pushing, stuns and knocking from monk and spells like entangle, fog, gust of wind from druid, not to mention spike growth, wall of stone and bones of the earth
Here is a question... how would you replicate "afro samurai" in DnD 5e?
Monk-Ranger? --the Manger?
Doesn't it only give you that boost in AC if you make an unarmed attack instead of a weapon attack?
I thought agile parry only came if you made an unarmed strike with your action
As Life from the Loamly said, it can be better vs higher AC targets. I'd also add that it is good to use when you crit, as you would then add 2 martial arts die.
Can the shadow monk be optimized to the point where people are scared of thier own shadows?
Ha!
Grung grappler!
I love the Kensei and I would love to see you take another run at it. The way of bushido warrior I am such a big fan of rp wise. Though my party does bot always love my Tabaxi who refuses to sneak up on enemies
You'll probably enjoy the build I just finished editing :) (out next week!)
Monk/ Ranger should be dubbed Monger or Rank
You just dont seem enthused about this one
I love monks! But maybe I was feeling bad about how underpowered they are? ;)
I am going to call this the "RONK" (Ranger- mONK) it has a friendlier ring than "monger" and it reminds my of my favorite Aurer, Tonks.
it's auror (in hermione voice). :)
I recommend RANK
Watching this in 2022, I hear “take what you want” and miss “pick your favorites.”
Ha ha - poor little Monger. Never gets any love :).
Love this build Cory!
For all my first 4 characters I played all non-magical characters (a Battlemaster Fighter, A Barb/Stronk, and a Theif rogue). Even now in my first 5e foray into playing a magical PC I can't help but take half fighter levels 😅. I appreciate the ranger multiclass and honestly never thought of it.
What's your opinion on this build now post tasha's what with Dedicated Weapon, the Crusher feat, etc.? Would you still go Kensei Monk? My thoughts are it might be more optimized to take the 4 levels in ranger for the ASI and have a higher balance of WIS and DEX while going Open Hand Monk for more battlefield control/advantage generation.
Thanks! Actually, I updated it post-Tashas, and I think I'd go Astral Monk - check it out here - ruclips.net/video/z0H5ZItATAM/видео.html
Sweet shirt!
Thanks! I've been waiting for some Aang love! :)
Power Word Kill is also save or die sometimes
Kensei may be using a weapon but they can run up walls.
This is funny. For a known optimizer, your fave class is the worst class in dnd 5e: the monk. haha. Anyway nice to know. Mine's the ranger.
I don't play monks anymore because they aren't good at dmg, I'd probably lean more into a debuffer type monk with dmg as just secondary, while also avoiding weapon use as I wouldn't feel "monkish" anymore. I'd use mercy monk 6 for the auto-poison effect (no save), and of course battlemaster 4 for action surge and a bunch of maneuvers for more control/debuff (with a higher save dc compared to stunning strike since you can base it off of dex).
I wouldn't use ki points on stunning strike. I'd just save those ki on flurry of blows and focused aim. Going with battlemaster allows you to get reaction attacks like riposte or brace so you can even impose poisoned to enemies attacking you. moreover, you can still contribute even if the enemy is immune to poison by either imposing fear, prone, or disarm. Plus as a mercy monk, you can function as a backup healer.
I'd pick up the superior technique fighting style and martial adept feat to just add more superiority dice and maneuvers to make it feel like i have more martial arts moves. I'd reflavor/rename the maneuvers as martial arts moves. Action surge of course for the times you need to tag multiple BBEGs. Picking up mobile at later levels will help with the moving around.
Right!? Good ideas re: Mercy Monk
@@DnDDeepDive Yeah, imo its arguably the best "monk". The kensei for me feels more like an asian themed weapon user in the vein of the samurai. Though i think with a mercy monk, its best to have a conversation with the DM before playing it. If the DM plans to run a campaign filled primarily with poison immune enemies (like facing alot of undead), then the mercy monk will feel useless in most fights. In those cases, a monk player would be better off with maybe kensei or sun soul (if DM will use alot of monsters vulnerable to radiant dmg).
Great series! Thank you.
Meh. The problem with Monks is that they are "well rounded" in a game that relies on "focused roles". They seem like they are really fun to play, and I get a lot of ideas from them. Their prime Stats (Dex, Wis and Con) all cover the most common Saving Throws. But, ultimately, they fall short. I've considered a Monk/Barbarian(Zealot) mix for the +1d6, but it takes 3 levels of Barb to get that.
i wouldn't say they are well rounded. i think the main problem is they are mediocre in all possible archetypes (striking, contolling, tanking). they aren't supports, summoners or healers either. and yes you are right. 5e is all about hyper-focus in a role (being excellent at one thing) with possible elements of other roles over being a jack of all trades.
I think thats a decent multiclass if you really wanted barb and wanted to play a str monk. but if you don't like to invest too many levels you can just get 2 barb for rage and reckless attack. if you wanted a dex/wis monk then, definitely pick something else than barb. i recommend fighter for action surge and unarmed fighting style. battlemaster is also a good subclass to increase dmg and add control elements.
Rob, when I say "well rounded", I mean "jack of all trade, master of none". They're not bad characters at a lot of things, they just arent great at any one thing.
I wanted the Zealot for the extra D6 per round. But going Str on Monk stretches the stats out a lot.
Of course, what I _really_ want to play is a Monk with Tavern Brawler, where any Improvised Weapon counts as a Martial Arts Weapon. I to walk into a fight, and take up any random thing at all. Or just take his shirt off, and kick people's asses with that. Or a shoe. :)
Still, the extra D6 from Zealot would have been nice.
@@Joemantler yeah you could say the monk is a jack of all trades (though he doesn't have alot of trades unlike the bard which is what i meant). the monk is more of a jack of some trades, master of none. i agree that hes not bad at those some things but in 5e, if you aren't at least great in one thing (which will be your typical role in a party) then it's a bad class. in fact monk is widely regarded as the worst class in 5e.
agreed that would make you a bit MAD if you didn't give up dex/con/wis. i'd personally just do it this way via point buy: 15 str (+racial bonus), 14 dex, 12 con, 8 int, 14 wis, 8 cha.
if you're really just after the d6 bonus on zealot, then there are other classes that can give you that (or close to it but with lesser level investments) or even better (but will have concentration). stuff like favored enemy, hex, hunter's mark, sneak attack, maneuvers, divine smite, unarmed fighting style, colossus slayer, dreadful strikes, gathering swarm, hexblade's curse, , etc.
if you really want to play a tavern brawler monk, i suggest to go for it. that can be optimized anyway. I think battlemaster again just fits well as it alleviates your action economy problem (no need to spend your bonus action to get a dmg boost so you can just use flurry of blows or grapple with your bonus action). fits with the theme as well as you have moves like trip attack, push attack, grappling attack, brace, riposte, etc. just be forewarned that it'll take a lot of levels before martial arts improvised weapon becomes a significant improvement as your martial arts die only moves up to a d8 at level 11 monk. i suggest just ignoring martial arts altogether (stick with your d4 or at most d6) and get dmg bonuses like the ones i mentioned above from other classes which can give you a better dmg bump than what the monks give you (they are very bad at this but if you want to major in monk, go for it) with less levels invested.
if what you're more interested in playing is a tavern brawler (not really a monk) then it opens up more options for us to make it better. i admit the visuals of dealing alot of dmg by beating an enemy over the head with your shoe is funny. i imagine you taking your shoe off and laying the smackdown on a giant. lol.
I've been thinking about what a Barbonk would play like... maybe Wild Magic + Astral Self?
I've thought a lot about this but haven't come up with a good one yet. On the list :)
imo depends on what you want to do but i'd say definitely not that combo. thats very bonus action intensive already with rage, step of the wind, flurry of blows, wild magic (if you roll the bonus action) and astral arms. imo at its base both classes already eat up alot of bonus actions. best to pick subclasses that give you something without spending your bonus action... something like zealot and mercy.
personally, i'd throw in 2 levels of fighter for action surge and the unarmed fighting style.
I'd love to see a kensei monk with the new features in Tasha's and the feats Gunner and sharp shooter, I think you'd be getting 3 shots with the pistol any around you spend a kid point on your action to add martial arts die damage to one of your shots. Alternatively you could use one hit to stunning strike and then the second attack and bonus stack with the pistol in close quarters.
I've got a ranged Kensei monk on the list!
Sounds good, I have been playing with this concept in case my current character kicks the bucket. I'm considering taking mink to 5 for extra attack and then fighter for a one level dip to get archery fighting style. I considered 2 into ranger for it and hunters mark though but I'd miss out in an ASI so I'm not sure if that is worth it. Then again who plays to 20 🤣
Palobardbarian. Aka, Skillit.