You are correct on the Kroil and JB Bore scrubber, I have used them for years. One addition to your cleaning routine would be to use the bore scrubber pellets with threaded jag. Here is a video from Brownells - Using JB Bore Paste and Kroil with the VFG Bore Pellets. It will give you the result you desire! ruclips.net/video/JaPzrAfemIE/видео.html
@@WildBushGrit brownells should have them in stock. I have them for my .22lr sniper rifle and my .308 1000 yard rifle I built. I have seen some bench rest shooters used a 12” long non movable handle with bronze brush that will let you spin it in the chamber to instantly twist out the carbon.
The video about the chamber brush was from Pursuit of accuracy and using a bore scope is a must, also check out Eric Cortina, he has a great cleaning tutorial using a bore scope
Well I had fun reading through most of the comments made over these last months. A lot of concern over shortening barrel life by "over cleaning" or whatever via using Kroil and JB. There also seems to be disagreement about removing carbon, fouling, copper down to bare metal or not. My father always said to keep your cars and guns clean - a simple truth from a self made man who was USMC through the worst two years of Korea and an incredible hunter and marksman. I have always followed that advice. I clean my firearms after every range session and my cars always look showroom new. I am now 70 years old and have used JB and Kroil on all of my firearms including expensive cut and hand lapped barrels, and some irreplaceable legacy rifles. Not every time. Have you ever used compound on a car's finish? Most of us have. What does it do? It removes the environmental contaminants, dirt, and even microscopic scratches in the clear coat paint. JB has a finer grit than most automotive compounds. Secondly, it is applied with Kroil which is a penetrating oil that allows the paste to slide more smoothly. Thirdly, Brownell's recommends using the wool felt polishing pads on a jag. These are no different than the polishing pads used with the DA random orbit polisher on your car. I use a lot of different products - Wipe Out, the Bore Tech carbon and copper removers, M- Pro 7, and on and on. My standard practice is to run a few patches wrapped on a nylon brush of carbon cleaner through the bore than copper cleaner, then alcohol, then a light coat of oil, then a dry patch. JB and Kroil hands down works the best - after every hundred rounds or so. I don't shoot competitively, but if my rifle is not accurate I don't want it. If I am going to put money into a rifle and ammo (which BTW is getting more expensive and harder to find) then I want the best accuracy I can get out of it. If it is not accurate then it sure as hell is not because it is "too clean." I guess bottom line some folks are okay with driving around in a car or truck or shooting rifles that never get cleaned. Not the image I want others to see. Sure, different strokes for different folks.
Haha, thank you for that! Very well put, Sir! Your father's generation knew something young'un today will never know. JB and Kroil are not for every cleaning. You do it once in a while when you start to get build-up. Also, I'll do it when I buy a used rifle. I'll strip it to bare steel and see what this barrel can do. I'm about to make that follow-up video with my 6.5 Creedmoor. That rifle shoots better than ever. I even brought it to my first F-class open match. Thank you so much for your comment, it has been a pleasure reading you Sir!
I use a bronze brush every time I clean. I've never noticed any negative effects from it. I did briefly try without it but pretty quickly went back to the bronze brushes. I've also used jb with good results. I rarely try to get a barrel spotless though. Just don't let it build up and don't let anything rust.
To start, I am a metallurgical engineer, very familiar with looking at metals through a microscope. When I look at the bore scope images of your "squeaky" clean barrels after Kroil and JB, I see lots of small pits, microscopic tears, and scratches from the barrel machining. Every machined barrel will have those. So your bore may look clean, but it is not smooth. That layer of carbon or copper is needed to make the barrel smooth. It fills the pits and tears and scratches, and that is why it is so difficult to remove without using abrasives. Precision rifle shooters shoot "fouling" shots to fill these surface defects in the bore and make the barrel smooth before the important shots. Your Kroil and JB are cleaning away what needs to be there. The JB works because it is an abrasive. You are actually making you bore slightly larger every time you use it. The Kroil is just a lubricant for the abrasive. There is no gun cleaning magic in the Kroil. Go back to your Hoppes 9. That is all you need. As RUclipsr GunBlue490 says: Forget that you are cleaning a gun. You are just removing excess carbon from a piece of steel and you want to leave a smooth surface. If the micropits and scratches in the surface are full of carbon, so be it, The surface is microscopically smooth. That is what you want.
Excellent response. I was tempted to use a bore scope until I saw the intel that Gunblue490 provided to his viewers. I will add that I use a bronze brush and make 10 passes which equates to 20 when you move the rod forward and backwards. I also purchased a set of bronze brushes in the same caliber from J. Dewey as they are meant to be replaced after some use. The brush is meant to be a disposable item after it begins to wear. Using a bore scope will make you Fixate on hyper cleaning your barrel and thus Reduce its life cycle. If you are a bench rest shooter then that might be a different story.
I agree with you, a bit of fouling is necessary, for best performances. But regardless of the motivation of why someone would want a squeaky clean barrel, I do know that none of the 'commercial method' would help remove a carbon ring on a 22lr rifle for example. I tested a lot, and none of them encourage a bronze brush. But only a bronze brush with some lubricant did the trick. In the absolute, do people need squeaky clean barrels, I don't think so. But if benchrest shooters aims for it, there's gotta be a reason. And for what I can gather, in a good quality barrel, you don't need much fouling to reach peak performance. Cheers mate! I appreciate the comment and conversation!
if I recall correctly, Erik Cortina posed a good argument for bare metal cleaning and that, in a nutshell, eliminates or nearly eliminates the bore variability you get with maintaining a fouled barrel which is constantly changing shot to shot. I've been shooting and loading for over 30 years and have rifles that shoot best when they look like copper pipes in the bore where others lose their accuracy inside of 25 rounds until back to bare metal. For me it boils down to how the barrel performed when new. If I'm getting excellent accuracy, for me, which is 1/4 to 1/2 MOA three shot groups, then I keep that rifle clean like new. In contrast, when I take a new rifle/barrel out and I'm getting 2 inch groups or so at 100 yards from the start, I go the other direction and get more fouling to see if that helps and in many cases it did. I'm referring to my cut and button rifled lapped barrels, not production rifles.
@@WildBushGrit another point to have a clean bore is to have consistent shots. You can't consistently maintain a level of dirty, but you can consistently maintain a level of clean.
@@Accuracy1st It all depends on what you are looking for your barrel to perform. If you are talking about bench rest or long Precision shooting then going to a known staring point makes sense. On the other hand if you are looking to extend the life of your barrel then the repeated continued cleaning to bare metal, will not extend the life of a barrel.
I absolutely believe in Kroil. We use it at the oil refinery on some of the most rotten bolts possible. It chews that corrosion up, those flange studs would not come out without it. I mix it with Shooters Choice on a patch. I believe it is safer than that 7.62 copper remover, that heavy ammonia solvent. I was stoked to see this video I shared it on my Facebook news feed, I have been singing its praises for years. Now I have your video proof.
This is the best video I watched on what actually happens to your barrel when cleaning with Hoppes. I also bought a bore scope and unfortunately my life changed forever. Great video however most shooters will never believe you. I watched a video on Gun cleaning from Brownells of all places, these are two gunsmiths, and they are laughing and chuckling about how they never clean their guns. Their gun cabinets are full of dirty guns and this is completely acceptable. I could not believe what I was watching. The average shooter believes the dirty gun shoots better. Now you know how the government gets over with their disinformation, people believe them.
@@rockylavigna5977 Because of lock-eaze we can clean our rifle and then add graphite as a lubricant until we get in a few fouling shots. I clean my gun then oil it up with Elite gun oil for storage... then mop in Lock-Ease before I shoot. So I can have a clean rifle and not worry about overshooting a clean barrel.
I have held for a long time that cleaning is over done. The barrel is dirtied up with the first few "fouling shots" so what we really have in a firearm barrel is a certain state of equilibrium...it won't be a clean barrel but a barrel with some degree of deposits. I really do not believe that a layer of copper and carbon is a detriment as each successive shot pushes out some of the last deposit so you will reach an equilibrium. That layer is beneficial, as others have commented in protecting the very rough and porous bare steel of the bore. There are so many variables that affect accuracy and accurate shooting I submit that obsessing on clean barrels is a mistake and a waste of time. The benchrest shooters can and do go down that rabbit hole and perhaps with good results. But for the average shooter it is a mistake to chase things like squeaky clean barrels in the name of improved accuracy. There are soooo many shortcomings in off the rack guns and shooter capability that ought to be worked in instead of worrying about an ultra clean barrel. In short most shooters cannot achieve meaningful accuracy improvement through focus on barrel cleaning. I have bolt actions that have had hundreds of rounds down the pipe with zero cleaning....ZERO...and they shoot very, very well.
I have been shooting since the 70’s. I exclusively shoot a 17 Remington, 25gr bullet traveling 4100 fps. I clean my barrel every 100 rounds or so. I have ALWAYS used a bronze brush and I only stroke it in the barrel about 15 times just using Hoppes 9. I get 3500 round on average before the accuracy I need falls off, then I just rebarrel. You have went down the rabbit hole.
Thanks for the video. I would say that yes, get a borescope but do it with the idea of putting whatever one sees in proper perspective. Many will see manufacturing flaws and want a new barrel, but it may very well shoot just fine. Another area of concern is that many will want to clean their guns down to bare steel every time and this is also unnecessary. Each barrel will foul differently and accuracy will degrade differently with each barrel. Take a look through the bore with the scope at that point and make a note of how many rounds of ammo was fired. You will get to where you don't use the scope but a few times a year on any given barrel. The nice thing about scoping the bore is that you know what state it is in despite it looking all bright and shiny by just looking down it with a light. Your video is the first I have seen that brings up the subject of the negative consequences of borescopes. Thanks again for the video.
A borescope is not good for OCDs😂 But jokes aside, I learned a lot looking at my rifles, various brand, various makes, Old Mauser, tikka, brand new barrels and old pitted barrels that if I didn't know the rifle, I would have qualified as good for scrapyard. The borescope is a great way to learn a lot about barrels in general, for this I do recommend it, and I agree 100% with you about having proper perspective. Thank you for the comment! Cheers!
I agree 100%. I looked down the barrel and saw small manufacturing flaws, small pitting, and grime, which I thought was a clean barrel. It is breaking my head.
Im a machinist/gunsmith and 1000yd benchrest competitor. You must keep your barrels clean and clean them as best as you possibly can. Accuracy degrades over time and hard carbon has to come out. You can think differently but when you are competing at 1000yds shooting 10 shot groups measuring 4" then you will see differences if you slack on your cleaning. You may not see a difference shooting 100 or 200yds but your also not shooting very far either.
Just subscribed. I've tried them all but once I found kroil an JB bore compound I've never needed anything else. And it really does restore accuracy on old neglected firearms.
Best thing I ever bought was a bore scope, it's impossible to truly clean a barrel without one. I thought most of my rifles were clean, they are now. I only use nylon brushes especially with copper cleaning agents. I want my barrels spot less, I don't believe that carbon and copper fouling fill in the imperfections to make better accuracy. If you clean down to steel you are starting from a predictable point of accuracy. Everyone has their own beliefs and habits but get yourself a bore scope, you'll be amazed. As a side note, just bought a Browning X bolt in .270win guess what a new barrel looks like? It's filthy and has a little copper fouling from test firing in the factory and it took a while to get it clean. Take care and keep em clean.
110% I couldn't agree more. And without a proper cleaning procedure you can't properly break-in a barrel. Because that carbon or copper fouling will prevent the smoothing of the bore. If you have proper break-in the cleaning is sooo much easier too. You won't need a bronze brush.
Chemist here; amyl acetate and isoamyl acetate dissolved in a solution of synthetic ATF and Stoddard Solvent will have that carbon practically jumping off the metal. I use a 50:50 of the acetates 15% into the solution of which 40:45 is synthetic ATF:Stoddard Solvent. So 15:40:45. The ATF is there to slow the evaporation of the acetates/Stoddard Solvent and by itself allows for some cleaning action. This must be used outside in a well ventilated area and obviously don't get it on wood. You can use chamber plugs to seal the bore and a piece of tape on the crown to prevent evaporation, leave it in for 20 minutes; then look at what comes out. Cheers.
@@WildBushGrit The more pure you can find your acetates, oily banana's for sure :). I have a can of Varsol, which is the same class of low volatility, light hydrocarbon, high flashpoint "safety solvents" that are generic for "Stoddard Solvent". They'll all work well. If you can find a vintage bottle of Hoppe's Nitro Solvent you are going to be in Heaven, not only will it work super well, but it smells wonderful, like the old time gunshops my dad used to drag me into when I was little.
@@jeanettewest I'll try that, thanks for the info! It sounds a lot like Ed's Red, with K1, Mineral Spirit, Acetone and ATF but at different proportions. One thing I've never done was plug the barrel to seal everything. Will def try that next time. :)
@@WildBushGrit I believe you'll find it wonderful for quickly removing carbon. Remember manufacturing companies have to balance efficaciousness with consumer use. Something that works wildly well, but is both highly flammable and potentially dangerous due to absorption qualities simply cannot be sold because some Bubba somewhere will clean their rifle/shotty/pistol at the kitchen table and spill the bottle all over catching the house on fire; despite all the warnings you print on the bottle. And then there will be the ambulance chasing lawyer there to sue. you can replicate almost anything without the use of a laboratory to break the substances down by looking carefully at the MSDS. This document will tell you what the product is composed from, except in those cases where it is an industrial secret, for that, you'll need someone like me. 😊😊
Have been using Kroil for many years, both as a bore cleaner and penetrating oil. There is no better out there. Years as a 1000 yd. competitor and most shooters used Kroil in their cleaning routine.
I have a borescope and use it to track the carbon ring, but honestly the FEEL of the cleaning rod is the best indicator of cleanliness IMO. If you have stubborn copper near the muzzle (and it seems it’s always near the muzzle) and stubborn carbon near the chamber (and it seems it’s always near the chamber), then I think it’s there because that’s the “equilibrium” the barrel needs to be consistent. I will say though that the Tubb Final Finish bullets are a great way to improve the surface finish of the bore. You can feel the difference in the cleaning rod- it’s drastic.
Loved your comment about the borescope 😂, it goes to the saying “ignorance is bliss…”. This is true. Remember, for 22LR, carbon is bad, but the lead fouling is desired.
I usually use Kroil, JB Bore Bright, a nylon brush wrapped with a cleaning patch on new barrels. I just feel more comfortable knowing that any debris left over from manufacturing is not present first trip to the range. It has always been my practice when hunting, to fire a " foul shot " before going into the field. After all, my barrel was fouled when I made my final scope adjustment. I had a dead tree behind the cabin, walk out the door and pow! Besides it was a good way of disposing of old ammo I would not consider to use hunting.
If you love the results of the JB paste, try it with the felt pellets, rather than a patch. Better fit in the bore and applies the JB evenly and consistently.
Had a Mosin m44 with a good bore but black as night so I shot 30 rounds as fast I could then plugged the muzzle with a couple of patches then stuck the bayonet into the dirt , removed the bolt and filled up the total bore after the fire went out . Then I scrubbed with a bronze brush 20 times and then patched it clean and another 10 strokes and a patch to clean the bore . Fricking bright and shinny as new , im still amazed on how clean it got . Top notch stuff for just about anything
Thanks, it is something I would like to test on a vintage barrel and see the difference - the regular cleaning vs the kroil cleaning. Cheers, and thanks again .
My favorites are Patch out with accelerator then iosso on a nylon brush, now I am trying the Thorro Clean Bore Cleaning System from iosso and a partner company. Seems to work really well but always the star of the show is the iosso paste on a nylon brush. I have never tried the JB bore paste, I do not use a bronze brush to often now, almost never.
I never use any solvent with ammonia in it. It will etch the bore. For a heavy carbon fouling chambering such as my wildcat 22-240Wby with an 8 twist, I use brake cleaner on a mop and a bronze brush, followed by Bore Shine. Then oil the chamber and barrel well and patch out prior to shooting.
People crack me up, we go out and use and explosive charge to swage chunk of copper and lead through the bore at hi speed, then argue if a bronz brush is going to harm that bore.
I don't know if it is "harming" the bore or not but I watched a video where a guy used a drill and bronze brush in his Benchmark barrel and apparently it "polished" it but didn't harm it. I decided to do the same thing to an older rifle of mine. Pre and post borescope observation were noticeable. The brush scratched the hell out of the bore. You could easily see the cross marks perpendicular to the bullet path. Most would opine that a bronze brush won't harm the bore but that's with typical use pushing them through with a rod in the direction of bullet travel and reverse. Take a rod, couple it with a drill and give it a go. You'll definitely see cross marks. As such, bronze brushes can and do cause etching in steel. I've seen it. Have yet to see if it affects accuracy though.
@Derek McMurry I guess there is always going to be extreme examples, but if your using one as intended, and I personally don't even use one every time I clean maybe after 500 or so rounds, (I'm way too lazy) I don't see it causing enough damage in the grand scheme of things to warrant me worrying about. But that's my opinion.
@@tlinrin887 I don't think so either. Long ago I used a ammonia based bore cleaner, Warthog 1134 or something like that. Left it too long in a Broughton barrel and it pitted it throughout the bore. Hasn't caused any change in accuracy though
@@Accuracy1stI think you will find that those marks your referring to are machining marks made during manufacture. How can a material softer than steel (bronze) scratch it?. The video you watched with your own eyes has proved it does no harm and still you don't believe it lol.
The million dollar question is this: Have you recorded a measurable change in accuracy since you have adopted the methods you describe? I learned some years ago that my OCD with cleaning had no impact on my accuracy, but I grant that every barrel is different.
Not yet, I'm pretty it wont change much, I might have impact shift with the first 4-5 rounds, but I will report back when I bring that 6.5 out to the range again. Cheers!
Been there. Tried Bore Tech Eliminator in the 6.5CM LRI barrel of my RPR at the range right after a session, barrel was still hot/warm. Had minimal effect. Free All and JB works well. Iosso is great too. Best combo I have seen so far is ThoroClean (Clean and Flush) using a brass brush. Try it, you will thank me.
I use it on my trucks all the time... whenever I have some repairs, the evening before, I'll put a drop on all bolts/nuts, and the next morning, everything comes off real easy.
There is an easy free method to do this! Was shown it by an ex nz army armorer using boiling water. Works incredibly well to remove carbon. Takes a lot of patches though because they come out black for a long time!! I do a normal solvent clean then, using a funnel in the chamber with the rifle standing muzzle down in a coffee mug out of the stock, just slowly pour in a couple of jugs of boiling water. The cup you stand the rifle in ensures the barrel is full of boiling, not just trickling through. It works very well, does no damage and converts any light rust that may be in the barrel. I use this method only if I see rust forming in the bore wich is bad if you leave it there. Not for typical cleaning after a trip to the range. I live in high-ish humidity area so keeping rust out of the bore is needed
Amazing - I use these same products. I use the Bore Tech product after every shoot, then frequently use the Wipe Out and Accelerator. But nothing works like the oil and JB paste. I need to get a scope though. Excellent video. Thanks.
Thanks for the video... I just got a bore scope and like you thought it was squeaky clean... There was hard carbon... I use Hoppies and carbon cleaner. Got more out but I am still seeing carbon streaks.... I will try the Kroil next time.
With abrasives like JB or Iosso pastes, you can also use a hard nylon brush like Iosso's blue ones. Since abrasives will wear the steel a bit, we remove the hard carbon with a bronze brush+solvent and copper every 10 rounds, and to remove the hard carbon layer left we prefer wait more shots (50 to 100). These hard carbon deposits on the 8 first inches are bad for accuracy but let your rifle tell you when complete cleaning is needed instead of your borescope. Beware of the first bullet after such cleaning, often a flyer😉
I don't own a borescope but I found so much carbon fouling even with a slick barrel cleaning regime !!! Using a lead removal cloth , cut to size, and alternating with an ammonia based bore solvent.
@@WildBushGrit I follow it with a medium oil that has a copper trace in it , and I'll leave it in until I use the rifles again. Solvent based ammonia products are less of an issue than water-based products. Giving the barrel a flush with WD-40 and patching will remove the ammonia- based solvent residue too.
@@WildBushGrit Using the lead/carbon removal cloth (Birchwood Casey is my preferred one) was a real eye-opener for me - I'd never known that level of carbon fouling existed !!!
I have recently tried Thurro Clean, it is a very good product for removing hard carbon. Most do not realize that that carbon will get so hard you will not get it out. Many barrels are thought to be shot out when they are just fouled BADLY! Gunsmiths may have to spend many, many hours cleaning, and they just do not have the time for this. Many bore cleaning products are out there that make the cleaning job sound easy, and this appeals to the guys that are into the "Good Enough" category. Many products are nothing more than snake oil, especially if they appeal to the no-stinking bore cleaner crowd.
I have everything that that company makes, on hard carbon, it is worthless! This is not an understatement! Thurro clean works, JB Bore Bright(RED) is also a wonderful product. I hope you try Free All penetrating oil, it is simply fantastic! You can get it shipped from from the parent company. It comes in an aerosol can and a spray can with a trigger, which I prefer.@@WildBushGrit
I haven’t scrubbed my barrels or worried about that in decades and my rifles. Still shoot superb You want some of that fouling and copper in there too smooth over the machining scratches and what have you. I very, very rarely scrub a barrel. My worst nightmare is a bore scope. My OCD won’t allow it. 😂
Fascinating stuff! I've always been interested in the million and one details people have discovered about gun cleaning over the ages. Thanks to bore-scopes more info on what actually works, is available like never before. People have written entire books just on the effects of corrosive ammo, which no doubt has destroyed more guns than every bullet ever manufactured... can you do a video about this OP?
That's an excellent idea 💡! Shooting corrosives ammo and monitoring degradation over time. I just need a new barrel I won't care much 😅. Lemme see what I can do. Thanks 🙏 for the idea!
Glad to have stumbled on to your channel and will be back. I'd be interested in before and after deep cleaning grouping tests as I'm not convinced a rifle needs a shiny bare steel bore to drive tacks.
Thank you very much its one week i try to remove hard carbon with sharp shoot r product and didn't work. Ill try this., i live on south shore of montreal too if you want a spotter for long range shooting
Hey Yannick! Thank you! Let me know if you have question, I made a follow up video on the actual process, ruclips.net/video/gTKKM3j9nBI/видео.html Yes it's always a challenge going the distance when you are shooting alone :) Thanks for offering help, if you know a place not too far I'm also all ears. Cheers!
I inherited an old Mosen rifle that someone shot corrosive ammo through and never cleaned. All other cleaning methods have fallen short. I was thinking of trying your cleaning method here. You think it will help? Its the carbine length version of the rifle, which I really like and its a cool piece of history so im willing to keep trying.
Depending on barrel condition, especially milsurps, I'll use sweets to knock out the junk and neutralize any remaining acids that may be present. I might repeat the process depending on how much copper deposits/layers get a real good look at the barrel condition. Haven't tried kroil and usually use a patch dipped in mineral spirits and that does the trick for me to knock out carbon and lead deposits. Can't go wrong with CLP as an general purpose do all imo.
Great job. As you saw with your bore scope, factory barrels are pretty rough. They foul quickly. If you want to reduce how often you need to use JB, consider using David Tubb’s Final Finish bullet kit. It will lap many of those tooling marks out of your barrel. BUT, I would go shoot your rifle with that squeaky clean barrel and see if it improved your precision. If not, no need to clean that much. Nice content.
Yes! I was so surprised with all the markings! I will look into your suggestion thx! It was just a personal satisfaction milestone, seeing the fouled carbon in there made me OCD :) Accuracy was fine, I'm sure it will be fine again after a couple of shots. :) Thanks a lot for suggestion, I will look into that! Cheers!
chemical exportation regulation i guess. Check for the best penetrant you can get in the uk and give it a try. Look for the aeronautic stuff, they are usually of a higher grade.
@@WildBushGrit Dang! I just did your method and it worked great! Not exactly the same components, but I used what I had. I used an Iosso brush dipped in Hoppe's 9. After scrubbing a few times, I put a patch over a mop and applied Iosso paste. I looked in the bore scope and with that 5 minutes of cleaning, most of the carbon eliminated!
I also tried alot of things to remove carbon and coper build in my barrel (cz527) but there was no luck untill I got to Riflecx bore foam and their other cleaning products. This is geting the job done. Also works extremaly well with my maverick and Canik rival. There is another brand as good called Super Nano i think. I recommend both as these are quite cheap at the same time. Feel free to try! 😀
@@dzod3596 this is my process ruclips.net/video/gTKKM3j9nBI/видео.html but normally if you use the tube provided, it should spread inside and leak at the end of the barrel. thanks :)
I agree with you regarding bore scopes. Since I got mine I've been much more obsessed with cleaning. I just recently tried Kroil and JB for the first time on my Bergara .22lr. I had tried Bore Tech C4 and Eliminator and neither did much but remove the loose stuff using a nylon brush. Like you the patches were coming out spotless. I used Tipton felt cleaning pellets with the JB, not a brush. The pellets are too short and don't hold much JB. Not sure if I should use even use a nylon brush with the JB. Did you use a bronze brush with the JB or just the Kroil?
The video is excellent and your channel is going to big. I’d be interested in how well the rifle grouped after that deep cleaning. Even after a fouling shot or two.
Been using it since birth 😊 any new gun u get I wrap a patch on a brush embedded with kroil and bore bright and hone the barrel no less than 1000 strokes, no break in needed and barrels come clean with like 4 to 6 patches super micro polished.
Hey Vince! No ammonia, both non-embedding, super safe on any type of surface, actually. The JB is made for cleaning barrels, it's really soft and gives a nice polish that will help prevent build-up later on. I will probably show my process with Kroil & JB, but I want to see how it cleans a freshly fired gun. This video was really about getting hard carbon out. I'm also doing some experiments with something called Ed's Red. Essentially a DIY CPL you can make at home from a few basic chemicals. Kerosene, ATF, Acetone and Mineral Spirits. I will compare my result and discuss it then :) Cheers man!
it will certainly clean the rust, for the erosion it wont do much. Start with cleaning it, then shoot it, it might not be ultra accuracte, but with a bit of fouling, you might regain some accuracy if it was down. One way to find out :) lemme know I'm curious!
If you are happy with your accuracy, don't go too hard in there, I'm a special case I often look for trouble :) . I got the borescope on amazon, its from DEPSTECH, the one I bought is no longer available, there are others but I can't find any mention of a 45deg mirror. www.amazon.ca/dp/B08DF7FCL6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
@@WildBushGrit I am also that kind of guy. I am getting better as experience builds, but I still complicate an otherwise functional situation into a learning opportunity unnecessarily. Thank you for answering my question.
Bronze brushes, purchase by the dozen, Pro Shot, Dewey. Plastic brushes use Iosso and montana Extreme. Lots of Snake Oil out there as this video demonstrates. The very best bronze brushes are worn out at 100 strokes(a pass each way). Save the worn Bronze bristle brushes to wrap patches around and use the JB. JB Bore bright(Red) is more agressive than the standard JB. Wild Bush and Grit, great video!
After 40 + years of competitive shooting I might be able to help . First I was wearing at least one barrel out a year both in XTC and LR so I had a lot of new barrels to work with . This notion of breaking in barrels is a wast of time , don't bother . I've gone to matches with one round out of the barrel and won matches when the first shots were taken from standing ..yep zeroing while standing at 200 yards . Ok , first FIND a powder that does not foul , believe me there are some powders that will not shoot the first shot accurately , and there are others that will shoot the first shot after clean right in the middle . And the biggest bane is finding out that the powder your using isn't the same lot to lot and so much so that it can come darn close to blowing the rifle up ! Another problem was I used R22 that was US made then went to buy the next can and it was make in Sweden and was nothing like the old powder . I've also has some really crap powder sold by a company in Tennessee that was great until I got one lot that ruined 5 barrels and kept me off the 1989 Palma team to Australia because it had contamination that made DEEP grooves in the steel and the resulting velocity made vertical strings at 1000 yards . Finding a powder is your #1 PROBLEM ! The ONLY powder I found that was consistent lot to lot and tear to year is made in Finland so you can figure that out . That powder was so GREAT that after 66 rds in XTC and not cleaning it I shot a 200-20X Iron sight string @ 500 yds at Camp Atterbury years ago . NOW cleaning the barrels . First I never had copper fouling and I never used JB or other abrasives , I don't recommend them . While on the 1995 US Palma team to NZ we had been using 2208 which later was relabeled Varget . I shot 435 rds with out cleaning just to see when it would foul out and it didn't while shooting the supplied powder in the US . Then we got to NZ and they had loaded ammo with 2 different lots , one being the good stuff like we had in the US and the other that had a different color and fouled very quickly . With the powder that fouled it did so about a 1/2 in down the throat and GLAZED and no solvent would touch it ! So i reverted to JB and I learned that glazed powder and JB ends up polishing the steel all around the glazed area , polishing steel away while leaving the glazed fouling there ! As a result a ruined barrel ! I put up with this crap powder from Australia for years and it got down to cleaning every 12 shots and even at that I was keeping about 80% of the sighters in Fullbore . Eventually everyone else noticed the problem and then the energy of the powder dropped and the charge had to be moved from 45.5 to over 47 grs of that same powder to get the same velocity with a compressed load that then didn't shoot well ! That Australian powder company knew they had problems and kept making crap the they shut down and supposedly revamped the process , all the while the customers were getting their garbage ! And the other part not all of their powders were bad ! How we dealt with the fouling issue . Bronze brush and old Hoppies #9 and I later made my own Edd's Red , acetone , mineral spirits and automatic transmission fluid . Here is my point some of the solvents you tried are more like detergents and leave the barrel too dry and the steel too bare so that when you fire the first shot your leaving copper in the barrel especially after lapping the barrel with JB , that is a NO NO !! Look what is in Edd's Red , Acetone to break down fouling , the mineral spirits is also a cleaner and leave a fine film as does the automatic transmission fluid which is a light wt hydraulic oil . This cleans and leaves a FILM of lubricant in the barrel that prevents that first round copper fouling ! This formula was developed by Ed Harris at Lake City in the 40-50's and it proved its value in extending the life of proof barrel used in testing ammo lots . What your failing to pick up on is a clean barrel does NOT necessarily equate to an ACCURATE BARREL CONDITION . Kroil is a penetrate lubricant , use to be made from coal and 'can not' be used in engine crank cases as the Germans found out in WW2 ! You can burn it but you can't lubricate with it , aka a fuel but not an oil . As your barrel gets older , I noted yours was nearly new , you will get cracking in the throat . Then when you clean the barrel after a match and then look at the barrel the next week the throat looks fuzzy from the fouling coming out of the cracks from the cleaning of a week before . Solution clean just before the match ! Good Luck , M Maxberry
Wow there's a lot here, thank you for the elaborate and detailed comment. Just want to highlight this is not my typical routine to clean my barrels, I used the JB and kroil to get rid of the old carbon that was stuck there. My go-to now is Ed's red, I did a quick short video about it. It truly works. After a session at the range, while the barrel is still warm, I run a wet patch, and leave it there until I come back home for the cleaning. For the break-in procedure its really depend how much you shoot a year and the manufacturing of the barrel. Most hunters will shot a box top. I know some that shoot 1-2 bullets a year(sad). But its really depend on the barrel manufacturer, some barrel has lots of tooling marks that will reduce your velocity and increase copper fouling. For hunters going through that break-in will help gain velocity and makes cleaning easier. I have rifles that needed 150-200 bullets to reach peak velocity. My only guess here if you get a AAA barrel its probably hand lapped for you then break-in is not needed, but I could be wrong. For years I bought into the popular belief that bronze brushes were bad for a barrel. Which sparks the idea of this video. Question for you, how would you tackle carbon ring or glazed carbon without a bronze brush?
@@WildBushGrit Your question is one that is rather difficult , how to get a glazed carbon ring out ? #1 I would not use JB for that as you'll polish much more steel away before you get that ring out and that will damage the barrel . First you have to understand it is the make of powder that caused the problem and continued use of it will NOT improve that situation , change powder. This type of fouling generally occurs about a 1/2 down the barrel where the checking in the throat is , but it can happen on a nearly new barrel as well. After you have changed powder I would disregard the glazed area do your normal shooting unless your a high precession shooter and when the barrel got hot soak it in Kroil and let it sit then clean it . The problem is that chemicals don't do good work against ring glazed barrel , but shooting , getting it warm and soaking can work . DO not JB until after all of it is out of the barrel . Basically clean it and shoot it out . I know thats not what you want to hear . There are anti carbon solutions that can also be used but many of them are carcinogenic, thats another option .
@@The762nato I'm just seeking practical solutions for newcomers & hunters who wants to up their game.(pun intended) Many aren't reloaders and don't have the luxury of changing powders, they will usually go with what group best in their rifles and stick with it as long as there is a supply. The first rule in my opinion is to not get carbon deposit, but following the procedures in gun cleaning products is what got me here. Without a borescope it was impossible to tell. Bronze brushes are vilified without reason, and I'm 100% convinced the bronze brush did the brunt of the work here. Even after the JB, my rifle still shoot lights out, 1/4 to 1/2 MOA. I truly enjoy this chat, one of the many reason I started this channel, a place where we can share and learn and I thank you for that. This is my short on Ed's Red ruclips.net/user/shortsO4INqIsGIRA?feature=share its just the classic recipe. Have you tweaked your recipe?
OK, I need clarification.....did you use the kroil with JB bore paste on a jag? And then brush? Or brush first? What did you use to apply the JB and kroil? Was it a jag?
I tried it after hearing that when my mate was serving in Iraq would strip their rifles and bath them in diesel that were on base. He served for Australia looking after US assets and stated that it worked best for cleaning.The diesel injector cleaner has diesel in it plus other detergents which I believe helps with the removal of carbon and seems to works well with a brass brush. I now use it to as my first step for a deep clean and any cheap off the shelf diesel injector cleaner works fine. I also clean and store all my rifle bolts with WD40 which seems to be best. I use no bolt lubes and find I get the smoothest action. I believe WD40 has Kerosene as its base, as I use it as a lubricant for trimming my cases and when I anneal my brass with a hot flame I can smell kerosene fumes from the WD40. Conclusion treat your rifle or hand gun like your trucks motor.
I would never ever use red label JB. You can ruin a barrel if you use it with a brush. Bartlien and a few other barrel makers have seen this happened. Believe the target podcast has talked about it.
Red has a smaller grit than blue. If you find the link I'd be interested. My rifle shoots better today than ever. I'm currently working on part 2 and I'll be showing some groups.
The real question is how much it matters over say shooting a 100 round match. First off, it takes "several" rounds of fouling the barrel for the zero to come back. Second, how much carbon does it take to get the bore back to shooting the best at distance. It's a diminishing return after say the 10th or 12th round where it evens it out on a clean bore, all the way to "so dirty it doesn't group any longer". The better the barrel, the lesser those problems are obviously. I have only used JB and Kroil for 30 years now but that's just the OCD kicking in. Getting the barrel fouled again in a match is the goal.
oh absolutely, i'm not even competing, i'm just hunting under 100 yards most of the time. But I fully embrace my OCD personality 😂, and yes low quality barrel fouls a lot, with lots of machining marks.
It does not take several shots for a high quality barrel to come back to zero after being cleaned to bare metal. Every single one of my many benchrest barrels(Nothing special about the barrel just what I use them for) takes one or two shots to re-zero after cleaning and oiling. Generally only one. You can typically see this on a chronograph as well. You can only be consistently clean you can't be consistently dirty. It is also at peak accuracy without additional "fouling" shots. At benchrest matches(no one shoots smaller groups at any distance at 1000 yards or under) most competitors clean after every single target which can be every ten rounds.
Excellent video sir! I`ve used Kroil and paste for decades. And i`ve tried ALL the snake cleaners that claim to do it better than the next brand, but every one has failed, except KROIL!
MOST shooters (term used loosely) are hunters. Thousands of rounds fired annually from one specific firearm are not obtained and the ranges that game is taken are below 250 yards. That being established, a gun that provides at 1.25" moa is totally acceptable for "standard" hunting scenarios. Copper fouling actually smooths a bore by filling the imperfections within the bore's surface. Once void filling and surface burnishing occurs frictional equilibrium is achieved between the bullet/bore and copper deposition ceases building (e.g. copper on copper). Carbon build-up prevention is far more critical to accuracy longevity than copper "fouling" and EASY OFF oven cleaner takes care of it faster/better than any commercial firearm product I've dumped money into. I mean it's MADE to remove baked on carbon. In a nutshell (for the obsessed)...., new unfired barrel - hand/fire lap, otherwise shoot it (avoid above warm heating barrel), prevent carbon build-up (throat carbon ring included) and have fun.
Yes, I think the Kroil act as a lubricant and a medium, making the bronze brush glide with ease and distribute the grit of the JB evenly. I am amazed how people are still dubious about Bronze brushes... but anyway, to each their own I guess :) thanks for the comment!
Hey, I felt more consistency, that rifle was super accurate to begin with. And I also got better at reloading too. But if you want to see groups check my newer video on this topic.
Wipe Out isn’t really meant to work on hard carbon, I mean, I’m sure the bottle says you can use it for that, but Wipe Out is for your copper fouling. That’s the real purpose, and it works amazing for it.
You used hoppes black mineral oil to clean out fouling? Did you think to use a solvent? And you buy from a guy that keeps his Kroll supply on a snap-on tool box... lol
The Hoppes 3 bottles kit I had was 1 High Performance gun cleaner, 2 high Performance Copper cleaner, 3 High Performance Gun Precision Oil. Whatever that means it didn't work. I don't know what you are referring to as black mineral oil.
Ive been trying to get the hard carbon out of my Tikka Tac A1 aswell and have tried most products except kroil and Jb paste . Is there ever a chance you ll make a video showing your method of cleaning ? Thanks for the advice either way , the bore scope changed my life , i have depression and anxiety now haha jks jks
I've used Iosso's triple action oil and bore paste combo (their version of Kroil and JB) to remove hard carbon in my TAC-A1 with factory barrel. I've yet to use it in my match grade stainless barrels but I've got a rifle with enough hard carbon now I might have to give it a go. When I use the Iosso I run a patch through with the triple action oil and let it set for a while, then use a Parker Hale style jag with a patch wrapped around it with a VERY small amount of bore paste smeared onto it and run it up and down the barrel a few times. I'll usually do 3 or 4 back and forths at the breech end then maybe two full passes before cleaning it out and checking it again with a bore scope. Iosso recommends using their brushes with the bore paste but I've heard too many times from too many people that doing so isn't good, so I've stuck with the paste on a patch method
KROIL oils the best fir guns especially It penitrates the metal preventing corrosion and fills the pores to protect fromthe elements. It works great to loosen (especially on gun) bolts and screws. Second best is blaster that comes in a can. These oils are not TOXIC . Using HOPPES,and BARISTOL are TOXIC
I'm hoping you consider testing just JD paste without the Kroil to see whether Kroil actually adds anything to your cleaning. I'm doubtful that it does, and that JB paste is doing 100% of the cleaning. I'm basing this belief on the fact no other liquid "solvent" seems to make a dent in carbon. I could be wrong, though.
The Kroil is used to facilitate the function of the abrasive. Kroil itself MAY only soften the surface of hard carbon only. But it aides the paste with getting improved spread throughout the bore.
@@Accuracy1st Ah, thanks for the explanation! Sounds like you could then use any liquid to serve this purpose (i.e. Hoppes, Ballistol, any off the shelf oils, etc)?
Yes, the trick was really not being afraid of using the bronze brush. The kroil is lubricating the brush most, oil will work, BUT! :) The kroil is one the best penetrative oil on the market, it will get into all the tiny cracks, under the carbon, inside microscopic gap to loosen up things, and makes it easier with the brush to flake them out.
Hi Audran its a topic that i can't wrap my head around i guess we should both do are own testing if you want to see his video GunBlue490 uploaded 20 march
The one on copper fouling? I saw it this morning. I'm not hell bent on copper fouling personally, (my beef in this video was with the carbon) I do agree with him to some extent...but... but... :) in my barrel I can see the copper turning green, meaning it is oxidizing. What does it mean to the steel underneath, does moisture penetrate the oxidized copper and start attacking the steel, idk to be honest. But here's my thinking. If a brand new clean barrel is shooting fantastic. Keeping it clean will only make it predictable. I never saw a barrel getting more accurate over time, to be honest, maybe I'm not a great shot to begin with :) Or I need to shoot 1000 yards shots to see the difference. Also, I saw a theory that says, cheaper barrels need a level of polish inside for the machining marks to be smooth out. So it would make sense for some to actually see the difference between a cheap clean barrel vs a old seasoned barrel. But for a Tikka which comes with a sub-moa accuracy out of the factory. Maybe its not as black & white. What are your observations?
@@WildBushGrit Hi Audran i like your insight of the condition of your barrel with your bore scope what it was ,and the steps you took to get it copper free ,next step would be to record after any 25 or 50 shots and see which solvent would work well.Since solvants are becoming more advanced we don't know what works best . I do think a brand new barrel should remain clean has you mentioned. All the the best ( SUB)
Do not run a bronze brush with JB at all. I don’t know if you shoot PRS or what but you’re actually polishing out the rifling. A lot of guys are going to CLR, 10 minute soak, flush out with 99% alcohol and go to town with a nylon brush.
But the real question: was that bit of carbon affecting accuracy or barrel life? Probably not. Probably more wear on the barrel trying to remove the last bit.
If your barrel shoots just fine with carbon fouling, you shouldn't scrub it. (honestly most barrel shoots better with 3-5 shots after being cleaned some fouling is indeed needed. I think carbon become a real problem when you have a carbon ring forming in the throat. Increasing pressure and deforming the bullet as it being forced through it. For my own rifle, I can attest, it shoots now way better than it used to.
All barrels are not created equal. There is a huge difference between a "stock" barrel and one that has been precision lapped., and cleaning,or lack thereof should be performed accordingly as per specific requirements. But I'm just an old man so what do I know?
Point taken as a medium I think it would work great. I still use it as a general purpose lube and it works all right. I would never use my own money to buy it. Way over hyped.
The big question is, Does all penetrating oils created equal? :) Kroil is primarily used by the aeronautic industry, there could be a good reason. But you may be right, Ballistol could be working just as well... but tbh :) I prefer the smell of Kroil :)
Ok. I bought a borescope 😭😭😭 Then I bought some Kroil and JB Bore Cleaner. Been RE-CLEANING all my pew pews for 5 days straight. KROIL & JB BORE CLEANER WORKS!!!!!
You are correct on the Kroil and JB Bore scrubber, I have used them for years. One addition to your cleaning routine would be to use the bore scrubber pellets with threaded jag. Here is a video from Brownells - Using JB Bore Paste and Kroil with the VFG Bore Pellets. It will give you the result you desire! ruclips.net/video/JaPzrAfemIE/видео.html
I couldn't find the pellets here(canada) maybe I didnt look hard enough. I'll keep looking, worst case, I'll get some when I visit next time.
@@WildBushGrit brownells should have them in stock. I have them for my .22lr sniper rifle and my .308 1000 yard rifle I built. I have seen some bench rest shooters used a 12” long non movable handle with bronze brush that will let you spin it in the chamber to instantly twist out the carbon.
@hugtango this thread could help your carbon ring issue. (Not sure the tag going to work here.)
The video about the chamber brush was from Pursuit of accuracy and using a bore scope is a must, also check out Eric Cortina, he has a great cleaning tutorial using a bore scope
@@WildBushGrit This guy is right. VFG bore pellets with either JB or Thorroclean is the fastest way to clean a barrel.
Well I had fun reading through most of the comments made over these last months. A lot of concern over shortening barrel life by "over cleaning" or whatever via using Kroil and JB. There also seems to be disagreement about removing carbon, fouling, copper down to bare metal or not.
My father always said to keep your cars and guns clean - a simple truth from a self made man who was USMC through the worst two years of Korea and an incredible hunter and marksman. I have always followed that advice. I clean my firearms after every range session and my cars always look showroom new. I am now 70 years old and have used JB and Kroil on all of my firearms including expensive cut and hand lapped barrels, and some irreplaceable legacy rifles. Not every time.
Have you ever used compound on a car's finish? Most of us have. What does it do? It removes the environmental contaminants, dirt, and even microscopic scratches in the clear coat paint. JB has a finer grit than most automotive compounds. Secondly, it is applied with Kroil which is a penetrating oil that allows the paste to slide more smoothly. Thirdly, Brownell's recommends using the wool felt polishing pads on a jag. These are no different than the polishing pads used with the DA random orbit polisher on your car.
I use a lot of different products - Wipe Out, the Bore Tech carbon and copper removers, M- Pro 7, and on and on. My standard practice is to run a few patches wrapped on a nylon brush of carbon cleaner through the bore than copper cleaner, then alcohol, then a light coat of oil, then a dry patch. JB and Kroil hands down works the best - after every hundred rounds or so. I don't shoot competitively, but if my rifle is not accurate I don't want it. If I am going to put money into a rifle and ammo (which BTW is getting more expensive and harder to find) then I want the best accuracy I can get out of it. If it is not accurate then it sure as hell is not because it is "too clean."
I guess bottom line some folks are okay with driving around in a car or truck or shooting rifles that never get cleaned. Not the image I want others to see. Sure, different strokes for different folks.
Haha, thank you for that! Very well put, Sir! Your father's generation knew something young'un today will never know. JB and Kroil are not for every cleaning. You do it once in a while when you start to get build-up. Also, I'll do it when I buy a used rifle. I'll strip it to bare steel and see what this barrel can do. I'm about to make that follow-up video with my 6.5 Creedmoor. That rifle shoots better than ever. I even brought it to my first F-class open match. Thank you so much for your comment, it has been a pleasure reading you Sir!
I use a bronze brush every time I clean. I've never noticed any negative effects from it. I did briefly try without it but pretty quickly went back to the bronze brushes. I've also used jb with good results. I rarely try to get a barrel spotless though. Just don't let it build up and don't let anything rust.
To start, I am a metallurgical engineer, very familiar with looking at metals through a microscope. When I look at the bore scope images of your "squeaky" clean barrels after Kroil and JB, I see lots of small pits, microscopic tears, and scratches from the barrel machining. Every machined barrel will have those. So your bore may look clean, but it is not smooth. That layer of carbon or copper is needed to make the barrel smooth. It fills the pits and tears and scratches, and that is why it is so difficult to remove without using abrasives. Precision rifle shooters shoot "fouling" shots to fill these surface defects in the bore and make the barrel smooth before the important shots. Your Kroil and JB are cleaning away what needs to be there. The JB works because it is an abrasive. You are actually making you bore slightly larger every time you use it. The Kroil is just a lubricant for the abrasive. There is no gun cleaning magic in the Kroil. Go back to your Hoppes 9. That is all you need. As RUclipsr GunBlue490 says: Forget that you are cleaning a gun. You are just removing excess carbon from a piece of steel and you want to leave a smooth surface. If the micropits and scratches in the surface are full of carbon, so be it, The surface is microscopically smooth. That is what you want.
Excellent response. I was tempted to use a bore scope until I saw the intel that Gunblue490 provided to his viewers. I will add that I use a bronze brush and make 10 passes which equates to 20 when you move the rod forward and backwards. I also purchased a set of bronze brushes in the same caliber from J. Dewey as they are meant to be replaced after some use. The brush is meant to be a disposable item after it begins to wear. Using a bore scope will make you Fixate on hyper cleaning your barrel and thus Reduce its life cycle. If you are a bench rest shooter then that might be a different story.
I agree with you, a bit of fouling is necessary, for best performances. But regardless of the motivation of why someone would want a squeaky clean barrel, I do know that none of the 'commercial method' would help remove a carbon ring on a 22lr rifle for example. I tested a lot, and none of them encourage a bronze brush. But only a bronze brush with some lubricant did the trick. In the absolute, do people need squeaky clean barrels, I don't think so. But if benchrest shooters aims for it, there's gotta be a reason. And for what I can gather, in a good quality barrel, you don't need much fouling to reach peak performance. Cheers mate! I appreciate the comment and conversation!
if I recall correctly, Erik Cortina posed a good argument for bare metal cleaning and that, in a nutshell, eliminates or nearly eliminates the bore variability you get with maintaining a fouled barrel which is constantly changing shot to shot. I've been shooting and loading for over 30 years and have rifles that shoot best when they look like copper pipes in the bore where others lose their accuracy inside of 25 rounds until back to bare metal. For me it boils down to how the barrel performed when new. If I'm getting excellent accuracy, for me, which is 1/4 to 1/2 MOA three shot groups, then I keep that rifle clean like new. In contrast, when I take a new rifle/barrel out and I'm getting 2 inch groups or so at 100 yards from the start, I go the other direction and get more fouling to see if that helps and in many cases it did. I'm referring to my cut and button rifled lapped barrels, not production rifles.
@@WildBushGrit another point to have a clean bore is to have consistent shots. You can't consistently maintain a level of dirty, but you can consistently maintain a level of clean.
@@Accuracy1st It all depends on what you are looking for your barrel to perform. If you are talking about bench rest or long Precision shooting then going to a known staring point makes sense. On the other hand if you are looking to extend the life of your barrel then the repeated continued cleaning to bare metal, will not extend the life of a barrel.
I absolutely believe in Kroil. We use it at the oil refinery on some of the most rotten bolts possible. It chews that corrosion up, those flange studs would not come out without it. I mix it with Shooters Choice on a patch. I believe it is safer than that 7.62 copper remover, that heavy ammonia solvent. I was stoked to see this video I shared it on my Facebook news feed, I have been singing its praises for years. Now I have your video proof.
Good point about the ammonia solvent, all the product I used are non-embedding and ammonia free. Thank you for sharing it! Cheers!
This is the best video I watched on what actually happens to your barrel when cleaning with Hoppes. I also bought a bore scope and unfortunately my life changed forever. Great video however most shooters will never believe you. I watched a video on Gun cleaning from Brownells of all places, these are two gunsmiths, and they are laughing and chuckling about how they never clean their guns. Their gun cabinets are full of dirty guns and this is completely acceptable. I could not believe what I was watching. The average shooter believes the dirty gun shoots better. Now you know how the government gets over with their disinformation, people believe them.
@@rockylavigna5977 Because of lock-eaze we can clean our rifle and then add graphite as a lubricant until we get in a few fouling shots. I clean my gun then oil it up with Elite gun oil for storage... then mop in Lock-Ease before I shoot. So I can have a clean rifle and not worry about overshooting a clean barrel.
I have held for a long time that cleaning is over done. The barrel is dirtied up with the first few "fouling shots" so what we really have in a firearm barrel is a certain state of equilibrium...it won't be a clean barrel but a barrel with some degree of deposits. I really do not believe that a layer of copper and carbon is a detriment as each successive shot pushes out some of the last deposit so you will reach an equilibrium. That layer is beneficial, as others have commented in protecting the very rough and porous bare steel of the bore. There are so many variables that affect accuracy and accurate shooting I submit that obsessing on clean barrels is a mistake and a waste of time. The benchrest shooters can and do go down that rabbit hole and perhaps with good results. But for the average shooter it is a mistake to chase things like squeaky clean barrels in the name of improved accuracy. There are soooo many shortcomings in off the rack guns and shooter capability that ought to be worked in instead of worrying about an ultra clean barrel. In short most shooters cannot achieve meaningful accuracy improvement through focus on barrel cleaning. I have bolt actions that have had hundreds of rounds down the pipe with zero cleaning....ZERO...and they shoot very, very well.
Once again man, the production quality is top notch. You’ll be at a million subscribers in no time.
Thank you Jeff! Much appreciated! Don't hesitate if there is a topic you believe I should cover :)
My biggest concern is the carbon ring building up in the throat. This seems like a good method to bust those out. Thanks
Kroil has got me out of some tough spots but I would never thought to put down the 280 Ackley bore. Learn something new every day..................
I have been shooting since the 70’s. I exclusively shoot a 17 Remington, 25gr bullet traveling 4100 fps. I clean my barrel every 100 rounds or so. I have ALWAYS used a bronze brush and I only stroke it in the barrel about 15 times just using Hoppes 9. I get 3500 round on average before the accuracy I need falls off, then I just rebarrel. You have went down the rabbit hole.
Thanks for the video. I would say that yes, get a borescope but do it with the idea of putting whatever one sees in proper perspective. Many will see manufacturing flaws and want a new barrel, but it may very well shoot just fine. Another area of concern is that many will want to clean their guns down to bare steel every time and this is also unnecessary. Each barrel will foul differently and accuracy will degrade differently with each barrel. Take a look through the bore with the scope at that point and make a note of how many rounds of ammo was fired. You will get to where you don't use the scope but a few times a year on any given barrel. The nice thing about scoping the bore is that you know what state it is in despite it looking all bright and shiny by just looking down it with a light. Your video is the first I have seen that brings up the subject of the negative consequences of borescopes. Thanks again for the video.
A borescope is not good for OCDs😂 But jokes aside, I learned a lot looking at my rifles, various brand, various makes, Old Mauser, tikka, brand new barrels and old pitted barrels that if I didn't know the rifle, I would have qualified as good for scrapyard. The borescope is a great way to learn a lot about barrels in general, for this I do recommend it, and I agree 100% with you about having proper perspective. Thank you for the comment! Cheers!
I agree 100%. I looked down the barrel and saw small manufacturing flaws, small pitting, and grime, which I thought was a clean barrel. It is breaking my head.
Im a machinist/gunsmith and 1000yd benchrest competitor. You must keep your barrels clean and clean them as best as you possibly can. Accuracy degrades over time and hard carbon has to come out. You can think differently but when you are competing at 1000yds shooting 10 shot groups measuring 4" then you will see differences if you slack on your cleaning. You may not see a difference shooting 100 or 200yds but your also not shooting very far either.
Just subscribed. I've tried them all but once I found kroil an JB bore compound I've never needed anything else. And it really does restore accuracy on old neglected firearms.
Thanks & Welcome aboard! It does work! The skeptics are the ones who never tried it.
Best thing I ever bought was a bore scope, it's impossible to truly clean a barrel without one. I thought most of my rifles were clean, they are now. I only use nylon brushes especially with copper cleaning agents. I want my barrels spot less, I don't believe that carbon and copper fouling fill in the imperfections to make better accuracy. If you clean down to steel you are starting from a predictable point of accuracy. Everyone has their own beliefs and habits but get yourself a bore scope, you'll be amazed. As a side note, just bought a Browning X bolt in .270win guess what a new barrel looks like? It's filthy and has a little copper fouling from test firing in the factory and it took a while to get it clean. Take care and keep em clean.
110% I couldn't agree more. And without a proper cleaning procedure you can't properly break-in a barrel. Because that carbon or copper fouling will prevent the smoothing of the bore. If you have proper break-in the cleaning is sooo much easier too. You won't need a bronze brush.
I agree. A borescope is a must for anyone who is serious about firearms.
Chemist here; amyl acetate and isoamyl acetate dissolved in a solution of synthetic ATF and Stoddard Solvent will have that carbon practically jumping off the metal. I use a 50:50 of the acetates 15% into the solution of which 40:45 is synthetic ATF:Stoddard Solvent. So 15:40:45. The ATF is there to slow the evaporation of the acetates/Stoddard Solvent and by itself allows for some cleaning action. This must be used outside in a well ventilated area and obviously don't get it on wood. You can use chamber plugs to seal the bore and a piece of tape on the crown to prevent evaporation, leave it in for 20 minutes; then look at what comes out. Cheers.
But its gonna smell like bananas isn't it? :)
@@WildBushGrit The more pure you can find your acetates, oily banana's for sure :). I have a can of Varsol, which is the same class of low volatility, light hydrocarbon, high flashpoint "safety solvents" that are generic for "Stoddard Solvent". They'll all work well. If you can find a vintage bottle of Hoppe's Nitro Solvent you are going to be in Heaven, not only will it work super well, but it smells wonderful, like the old time gunshops my dad used to drag me into when I was little.
@@jeanettewest I'll try that, thanks for the info! It sounds a lot like Ed's Red, with K1, Mineral Spirit, Acetone and ATF but at different proportions. One thing I've never done was plug the barrel to seal everything. Will def try that next time. :)
@@WildBushGrit I believe you'll find it wonderful for quickly removing carbon. Remember manufacturing companies have to balance efficaciousness with consumer use. Something that works wildly well, but is both highly flammable and potentially dangerous due to absorption qualities simply cannot be sold because some Bubba somewhere will clean their rifle/shotty/pistol at the kitchen table and spill the bottle all over catching the house on fire; despite all the warnings you print on the bottle. And then there will be the ambulance chasing lawyer there to sue. you can replicate almost anything without the use of a laboratory to break the substances down by looking carefully at the MSDS. This document will tell you what the product is composed from, except in those cases where it is an industrial secret, for that, you'll need someone like me. 😊😊
Have been using Kroil for many years, both as a bore cleaner and penetrating oil. There is no better out there. Years as a 1000 yd. competitor and most shooters used Kroil in their cleaning routine.
I have a borescope and use it to track the carbon ring, but honestly the FEEL of the cleaning rod is the best indicator of cleanliness IMO. If you have stubborn copper near the muzzle (and it seems it’s always near the muzzle) and stubborn carbon near the chamber (and it seems it’s always near the chamber), then I think it’s there because that’s the “equilibrium” the barrel needs to be consistent.
I will say though that the Tubb Final Finish bullets are a great way to improve the surface finish of the bore. You can feel the difference in the cleaning rod- it’s drastic.
Loved your comment about the borescope 😂, it goes to the saying “ignorance is bliss…”. This is true. Remember, for 22LR, carbon is bad, but the lead fouling is desired.
3:38 This is the best part that makes me comfortable! Thanks man
I just got a bore scope, so yep here i am looking for ways to get better cleaning results.
Welcome to the rabbit hole :)
I usually use Kroil, JB Bore Bright, a nylon brush wrapped with a cleaning patch on new barrels. I just feel more comfortable knowing that any debris left over from manufacturing is not present first trip to the range. It has always been my practice when hunting, to fire a " foul shot " before going into the field. After all, my barrel was fouled when I made my final scope adjustment. I had a dead tree behind the cabin, walk out the door and pow! Besides it was a good way of disposing of old ammo I would not consider to use hunting.
If you love the results of the JB paste, try it with the felt pellets, rather than a patch. Better fit in the bore and applies the JB evenly and consistently.
Had a Mosin m44 with a good bore but black as night so I shot 30 rounds as fast I could then plugged the muzzle with a couple of patches then stuck the bayonet into the dirt , removed the bolt and filled up the total bore after the fire went out . Then I scrubbed with a bronze brush 20 times and then patched it clean and another 10 strokes and a patch to clean the bore . Fricking bright and shinny as new , im still amazed on how clean it got . Top notch stuff for just about anything
Thanks, it is something I would like to test on a vintage barrel and see the difference - the regular cleaning vs the kroil cleaning. Cheers, and thanks again .
Break cleaner cleans out the barrel really well
My favorites are Patch out with accelerator then iosso on a nylon brush, now I am trying the Thorro Clean Bore Cleaning System from iosso and a partner company. Seems to work really well but always the star of the show is the iosso paste on a nylon brush. I have never tried the JB bore paste, I do not use a bronze brush to often now, almost never.
I never use any solvent with ammonia in it. It will etch the bore.
For a heavy carbon fouling chambering such as my wildcat 22-240Wby with an 8 twist, I use brake cleaner on a mop and a bronze brush, followed by Bore Shine.
Then oil the chamber and barrel well and patch out prior to shooting.
"solvent with ammonia in it. It will etch the bore." impossible, your talking about a steel barrel, unless yours are made from cheese?
People crack me up, we go out and use and explosive charge to swage chunk of copper and lead through the bore at hi speed, then argue if a bronz brush is going to harm that bore.
😂 I know right!
I don't know if it is "harming" the bore or not but I watched a video where a guy used a drill and bronze brush in his Benchmark barrel and apparently it "polished" it but didn't harm it. I decided to do the same thing to an older rifle of mine. Pre and post borescope observation were noticeable. The brush scratched the hell out of the bore. You could easily see the cross marks perpendicular to the bullet path. Most would opine that a bronze brush won't harm the bore but that's with typical use pushing them through with a rod in the direction of bullet travel and reverse. Take a rod, couple it with a drill and give it a go. You'll definitely see cross marks. As such, bronze brushes can and do cause etching in steel. I've seen it. Have yet to see if it affects accuracy though.
@Derek McMurry I guess there is always going to be extreme examples, but if your using one as intended, and I personally don't even use one every time I clean maybe after 500 or so rounds, (I'm way too lazy) I don't see it causing enough damage in the grand scheme of things to warrant me worrying about. But that's my opinion.
@@tlinrin887 I don't think so either. Long ago I used a ammonia based bore cleaner, Warthog 1134 or something like that. Left it too long in a Broughton barrel and it pitted it throughout the bore. Hasn't caused any change in accuracy though
@@Accuracy1stI think you will find that those marks your referring to are machining marks made during manufacture. How can a material softer than steel (bronze) scratch it?. The video you watched with your own eyes has proved it does no harm and still you don't believe it lol.
The million dollar question is this: Have you recorded a measurable change in accuracy since you have adopted the methods you describe? I learned some years ago that my OCD with cleaning had no impact on my accuracy, but I grant that every barrel is different.
Not yet, I'm pretty it wont change much, I might have impact shift with the first 4-5 rounds, but I will report back when I bring that 6.5 out to the range again. Cheers!
Been there. Tried Bore Tech Eliminator in the 6.5CM LRI barrel of my RPR at the range right after a session, barrel was still hot/warm. Had minimal effect. Free All and JB works well. Iosso is great too. Best combo I have seen so far is ThoroClean (Clean and Flush) using a brass brush. Try it, you will thank me.
Sure! i'll add this to my list of thing to try! Thanks for tips!
Be careful with ThoroClean. I have heard that is a liquid version of Iosso.
Kroil is a gunsmiths good friend. Good stuff.👍 It helps with tough carbon deposits, & can be used for a ton of other stuff, as well.
I use it on my trucks all the time... whenever I have some repairs, the evening before, I'll put a drop on all bolts/nuts, and the next morning, everything comes off real easy.
There is an easy free method to do this! Was shown it by an ex nz army armorer using boiling water. Works incredibly well to remove carbon. Takes a lot of patches though because they come out black for a long time!! I do a normal solvent clean then, using a funnel in the chamber with the rifle standing muzzle down in a coffee mug out of the stock, just slowly pour in a couple of jugs of boiling water. The cup you stand the rifle in ensures the barrel is full of boiling, not just trickling through. It works very well, does no damage and converts any light rust that may be in the barrel. I use this method only if I see rust forming in the bore wich is bad if you leave it there. Not for typical cleaning after a trip to the range. I live in high-ish humidity area so keeping rust out of the bore is needed
Wow, first time I'm hearing about this!
Thanks! I have to try it now! :)
Cheers!
The JB products cleaner compound & polish brought my 40yo 30-06 barrel back to bright & clean
Amazing - I use these same products. I use the Bore Tech product after every shoot, then frequently use the Wipe Out and Accelerator. But nothing works like the oil and JB paste. I need to get a scope though. Excellent video. Thanks.
Thanks for the video... I just got a bore scope and like you thought it was squeaky clean... There was hard carbon... I use Hoppies and carbon cleaner. Got more out but I am still seeing carbon streaks.... I will try the Kroil next time.
you can start with Kroil or Free-All. Wet the bore first, then go to your abrasive
My only complaint the smell of Kroil I love the smell of hoppies #9
Too bad perfume for women is not made in Hoppies 9 smell@@JohnDoe-pf5ys
With abrasives like JB or Iosso pastes, you can also use a hard nylon brush like Iosso's blue ones. Since abrasives will wear the steel a bit, we remove the hard carbon with a bronze brush+solvent and copper every 10 rounds, and to remove the hard carbon layer left we prefer wait more shots (50 to 100). These hard carbon deposits on the 8 first inches are bad for accuracy but let your rifle tell you when complete cleaning is needed instead of your borescope. Beware of the first bullet after such cleaning, often a flyer😉
I don't own a borescope but I found so much carbon fouling even with a slick barrel cleaning regime !!! Using a lead removal cloth , cut to size, and alternating with an ammonia based bore solvent.
My only hesitation with ammonia, is you need a bomb proof way of taking it out of the barrel or action, it will damage steel if left in too long.
@@WildBushGrit I follow it with a medium oil that has a copper trace in it , and I'll leave it in until I use the rifles again. Solvent based ammonia products are less of an issue than water-based products. Giving the barrel a flush with WD-40 and patching will remove the ammonia- based solvent residue too.
@@WildBushGrit I'll swab the inside of the internal barrel/action union (knoxform ?) with homemade q-tips if there's a build-up of solvent.
thanks for the tip/info I am all up for learning new things! Thank you! :)
@@WildBushGrit Using the lead/carbon removal cloth (Birchwood Casey is my preferred one) was a real eye-opener for me - I'd never known that level of carbon fouling existed !!!
I have recently tried Thurro Clean, it is a very good product for removing hard carbon. Most do not realize that that carbon will get so hard you will not get it out. Many barrels are thought to be shot out when they are just fouled BADLY! Gunsmiths may have to spend many, many hours cleaning, and they just do not have the time for this.
Many bore cleaning products are out there that make the cleaning job sound easy, and this appeals to the guys that are into the "Good Enough" category. Many products are nothing more than snake oil, especially if they appeal to the no-stinking bore cleaner crowd.
120%! I love this comment so much! I'll try to find the Thurro and give it a try. At the moment my go-to is Patch-Out.
I have everything that that company makes, on hard carbon, it is worthless! This is not an understatement!
Thurro clean works, JB Bore Bright(RED) is also a wonderful product. I hope you try Free All penetrating oil, it is simply fantastic! You can get it shipped from from the parent company. It comes in an aerosol can and a spray can with a trigger, which I prefer.@@WildBushGrit
Kroil the oil that Creeps. Yes it does work especially with JB.
I haven’t scrubbed my barrels or worried about that in decades and my rifles. Still shoot superb
You want some of that fouling and copper in there too smooth over the machining scratches and what have you.
I very, very rarely scrub a barrel. My worst nightmare is a bore scope.
My OCD won’t allow it.
😂
Don't go there man XD save your sanity!
Use the bronze brush without the 4x2. Lot better results. Put 10,000 rds through my L85A1 and never had any problems with carbon build up.
Hey! sorry, what do you mean by the 4x2? Cheers!
Probably because you don't have a bore scope so you can't see it.
Fascinating stuff! I've always been interested in the million and one details people have discovered about gun cleaning over the ages. Thanks to bore-scopes more info on what actually works, is available like never before. People have written entire books just on the effects of corrosive ammo, which no doubt has destroyed more guns than every bullet ever manufactured... can you do a video about this OP?
That's an excellent idea 💡! Shooting corrosives ammo and monitoring degradation over time. I just need a new barrel I won't care much 😅. Lemme see what I can do. Thanks 🙏 for the idea!
Glad to have stumbled on to your channel and will be back. I'd be interested in before and after deep cleaning grouping tests as I'm not convinced a rifle needs a shiny bare steel bore to drive tacks.
Kroil and JB bore cleaners what is what I used for years it was recommended to me by a champion benchrest shooter.
What procedure did you use with Kroll and JB?
TY
Yes pretty soon! I'm working on a follow-up video, also including my groups and a full report on my 1000 yards session :)
i always patch the barrel with kroill at range while still warm..
By far the best advice on gun cleaning, if you can wet it while still hot. You'll save tons of time.
Thank you very much its one week i try to remove hard carbon with sharp shoot r product and didn't work.
Ill try this., i live on south shore of montreal too if you want a spotter for long range shooting
Hey Yannick! Thank you! Let me know if you have question, I made a follow up video on the actual process, ruclips.net/video/gTKKM3j9nBI/видео.html Yes it's always a challenge going the distance when you are shooting alone :) Thanks for offering help, if you know a place not too far I'm also all ears. Cheers!
I inherited an old Mosen rifle that someone shot corrosive ammo through and never cleaned. All other cleaning methods have fallen short. I was thinking of trying your cleaning method here. You think it will help? Its the carbine length version of the rifle, which I really like and its a cool piece of history so im willing to keep trying.
it worth a try and wont damage anything, it might even help remove some rust inside the barrel after the corrosive ammo.
Depending on barrel condition, especially milsurps, I'll use sweets to knock out the junk and neutralize any remaining acids that may be present. I might repeat the process depending on how much copper deposits/layers get a real good look at the barrel condition. Haven't tried kroil and usually use a patch dipped in mineral spirits and that does the trick for me to knock out carbon and lead deposits. Can't go wrong with CLP as an general purpose do all imo.
Thanks for the info, what do you mean by sweets? Do you use a bronze brush too?
@WildBushGrit Sweets 7.62 solvent. I generally use copper or nylon brushes for routine maintenance after that.
Depending on barrel condition, I might lead lap it using a mild compound to remove hard carbon deposits.
@@hoffmiermp Thanks again! Will look into that.
I guess that's doing something similar to the JB compound.
Very informative and time saving video thank you for sharing 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Great job. As you saw with your bore scope, factory barrels are pretty rough. They foul quickly. If you want to reduce how often you need to use JB, consider using David Tubb’s Final Finish bullet kit. It will lap many of those tooling marks out of your barrel. BUT, I would go shoot your rifle with that squeaky clean barrel and see if it improved your precision. If not, no need to clean that much. Nice content.
Yes! I was so surprised with all the markings! I will look into your suggestion thx! It was just a personal satisfaction milestone, seeing the fouled carbon in there made me OCD :) Accuracy was fine, I'm sure it will be fine again after a couple of shots. :) Thanks a lot for suggestion, I will look into that! Cheers!
I love Kroil as a penetrating oil. Sadly it is not imported here in the U.K. for some official reason!
chemical exportation regulation i guess. Check for the best penetrant you can get in the uk and give it a try. Look for the aeronautic stuff, they are usually of a higher grade.
Wait, do you apply the Kroil to the brush with the JB paste at the same time?
it's a 2 steps, I soak the brush with kroil, until all hard carbon is out. Then I use a mop, soaked with Kroil and JB to finish the cleaning.
@@WildBushGrit Dang! I just did your method and it worked great! Not exactly the same components, but I used what I had. I used an Iosso brush dipped in Hoppe's 9. After scrubbing a few times, I put a patch over a mop and applied Iosso paste. I looked in the bore scope and with that 5 minutes of cleaning, most of the carbon eliminated!
I also tried alot of things to remove carbon and coper build in my barrel (cz527) but there was no luck untill I got to Riflecx bore foam and their other cleaning products. This is geting the job done. Also works extremaly well with my maverick and Canik rival. There is another brand as good called Super Nano i think. I recommend both as these are quite cheap at the same time. Feel free to try! 😀
I'll look into it! thanks for the info!
How do you apply foam into barrel? Tried and it keeps returning backward 😮 😮💨...Thank you! Nice video 👍
@@dzod3596 good products have long aplicator straw that you can put into barrel and moving back you are filling the barrel with foam.
@@dzod3596 this is my process ruclips.net/video/gTKKM3j9nBI/видео.html but normally if you use the tube provided, it should spread inside and leak at the end of the barrel. thanks :)
I agree with you regarding bore scopes. Since I got mine I've been much more obsessed with cleaning. I just recently tried Kroil and JB for the first time on my Bergara .22lr. I had tried Bore Tech C4 and Eliminator and neither did much but remove the loose stuff using a nylon brush. Like you the patches were coming out spotless. I used Tipton felt cleaning pellets with the JB, not a brush. The pellets are too short and don't hold much JB. Not sure if I should use even use a nylon brush with the JB. Did you use a bronze brush with the JB or just the Kroil?
Hey There! I wrapped a cotton patch around a bronze brush with JB and Kroil. Thanks!
The video is excellent and your channel is going to big. I’d be interested in how well the rifle grouped after that deep cleaning. Even after a fouling shot or two.
Thanks mate! :) Yes this summer going with that 6.5 for a 1000 yards session, I will report back :) thanks again, much appreciated!
Been using it since birth 😊 any new gun u get I wrap a patch on a brush embedded with kroil and bore bright and hone the barrel no less than 1000 strokes, no break in needed and barrels come clean with like 4 to 6 patches super micro polished.
Hi Audran love your topic does kroil contain ammonia and is JB to abrasive for the barrel thanks in advance
Hey Vince! No ammonia, both non-embedding, super safe on any type of surface, actually. The JB is made for cleaning barrels, it's really soft and gives a nice polish that will help prevent build-up later on. I will probably show my process with Kroil & JB, but I want to see how it cleans a freshly fired gun. This video was really about getting hard carbon out. I'm also doing some experiments with something called Ed's Red. Essentially a DIY CPL you can make at home from a few basic chemicals. Kerosene, ATF, Acetone and Mineral Spirits. I will compare my result and discuss it then :) Cheers man!
A barrel on one of my rifles looks like it has a lot of rust and has eroded. Will these 2 help? I cant even tell there was in there! 😄
it will certainly clean the rust, for the erosion it wont do much. Start with cleaning it, then shoot it, it might not be ultra accuracte, but with a bit of fouling, you might regain some accuracy if it was down. One way to find out :) lemme know I'm curious!
Wow! I bet there's a lot of us in the same boat with you thinking our barrels are clean. Which borescope is that? Thanks for sharing!
If you are happy with your accuracy, don't go too hard in there, I'm a special case I often look for trouble :) . I got the borescope on amazon, its from DEPSTECH, the one I bought is no longer available, there are others but I can't find any mention of a 45deg mirror. www.amazon.ca/dp/B08DF7FCL6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
@@WildBushGrit I am also that kind of guy. I am getting better as experience builds, but I still complicate an otherwise functional situation into a learning opportunity unnecessarily. Thank you for answering my question.
Thanks for the quick chat.
Take care! = )
Bronze brushes, purchase by the dozen, Pro Shot, Dewey. Plastic brushes use Iosso and montana Extreme. Lots of Snake Oil out there as this video demonstrates. The very best bronze brushes are worn out at 100 strokes(a pass each way). Save the worn Bronze bristle brushes to wrap patches around and use the JB. JB Bore bright(Red) is more agressive than the standard JB.
Wild Bush and Grit, great video!
Thank you Sylvia! thanks a lot! :)
After 40 + years of competitive shooting I might be able to help . First I was wearing at least one barrel out a year both in XTC and LR so I had a lot of new barrels to work with . This notion of breaking in barrels is a wast of time , don't bother . I've gone to matches with one round out of the barrel and won matches when the first shots were taken from standing ..yep zeroing while standing at 200 yards . Ok , first FIND a powder that does not foul , believe me there are some powders that will not shoot the first shot accurately , and there are others that will shoot the first shot after clean right in the middle . And the biggest bane is finding out that the powder your using isn't the same lot to lot and so much so that it can come darn close to blowing the rifle up ! Another problem was I used R22 that was US made then went to buy the next can and it was make in Sweden and was nothing like the old powder . I've also has some really crap powder sold by a company in Tennessee that was great until I got one lot that ruined 5 barrels and kept me off the 1989 Palma team to Australia because it had contamination that made DEEP grooves in the steel and the resulting velocity made vertical strings at 1000 yards . Finding a powder is your #1 PROBLEM ! The ONLY powder I found that was consistent lot to lot and tear to year is made in Finland so you can figure that out . That powder was so GREAT that after 66 rds in XTC and not cleaning it I shot a 200-20X Iron sight string @ 500 yds at Camp Atterbury years ago .
NOW cleaning the barrels . First I never had copper fouling and I never used JB or other abrasives , I don't recommend them . While on the 1995 US Palma team to NZ we had been using 2208 which later was relabeled Varget . I shot 435 rds with out cleaning just to see when it would foul out and it didn't while shooting the supplied powder in the US . Then we got to NZ and they had loaded ammo with 2 different lots , one being the good stuff like we had in the US and the other that had a different color and fouled very quickly . With the powder that fouled it did so about a 1/2 in down the throat and GLAZED and no solvent would touch it ! So i reverted to JB and I learned that glazed powder and JB ends up polishing the steel all around the glazed area , polishing steel away while leaving the glazed fouling there ! As a result a ruined barrel ! I put up with this crap powder from Australia for years and it got down to cleaning every 12 shots and even at that I was keeping about 80% of the sighters in Fullbore . Eventually everyone else noticed the problem and then the energy of the powder dropped and the charge had to be moved from 45.5 to over 47 grs of that same powder to get the same velocity with a compressed load that then didn't shoot well ! That Australian powder company knew they had problems and kept making crap the they shut down and supposedly revamped the process , all the while the customers were getting their garbage ! And the other part not all of their powders were bad !
How we dealt with the fouling issue . Bronze brush and old Hoppies #9 and I later made my own Edd's Red , acetone , mineral spirits and automatic transmission fluid . Here is my point some of the solvents you tried are more like detergents and leave the barrel too dry and the steel too bare so that when you fire the first shot your leaving copper in the barrel especially after lapping the barrel with JB , that is a NO NO !! Look what is in Edd's Red , Acetone to break down fouling , the mineral spirits is also a cleaner and leave a fine film as does the automatic transmission fluid which is a light wt hydraulic oil . This cleans and leaves a FILM of lubricant in the barrel that prevents that first round copper fouling ! This formula was developed by Ed Harris at Lake City in the 40-50's and it proved its value in extending the life of proof barrel used in testing ammo lots . What your failing to pick up on is a clean barrel does NOT necessarily equate to an ACCURATE BARREL CONDITION . Kroil is a penetrate lubricant , use to be made from coal and 'can not' be used in engine crank cases as the Germans found out in WW2 ! You can burn it but you can't lubricate with it , aka a fuel but not an oil . As your barrel gets older , I noted yours was nearly new , you will get cracking in the throat . Then when you clean the barrel after a match and then look at the barrel the next week the throat looks fuzzy from the fouling coming out of the cracks from the cleaning of a week before . Solution clean just before the match !
Good Luck , M Maxberry
Wow there's a lot here, thank you for the elaborate and detailed comment. Just want to highlight this is not my typical routine to clean my barrels, I used the JB and kroil to get rid of the old carbon that was stuck there. My go-to now is Ed's red, I did a quick short video about it. It truly works. After a session at the range, while the barrel is still warm, I run a wet patch, and leave it there until I come back home for the cleaning. For the break-in procedure its really depend how much you shoot a year and the manufacturing of the barrel. Most hunters will shot a box top. I know some that shoot 1-2 bullets a year(sad). But its really depend on the barrel manufacturer, some barrel has lots of tooling marks that will reduce your velocity and increase copper fouling. For hunters going through that break-in will help gain velocity and makes cleaning easier. I have rifles that needed 150-200 bullets to reach peak velocity. My only guess here if you get a AAA barrel its probably hand lapped for you then break-in is not needed, but I could be wrong. For years I bought into the popular belief that bronze brushes were bad for a barrel. Which sparks the idea of this video. Question for you, how would you tackle carbon ring or glazed carbon without a bronze brush?
@@WildBushGrit Your question is one that is rather difficult , how to get a glazed carbon ring out ? #1 I would not use JB for that as you'll polish much more steel away before you get that ring out and that will damage the barrel . First you have to understand it is the make of powder that caused the problem and continued use of it will NOT improve that situation , change powder. This type of fouling generally occurs about a 1/2 down the barrel where the checking in the throat is , but it can happen on a nearly new barrel as well. After you have changed powder I would disregard the glazed area do your normal shooting unless your a high precession shooter and when the barrel got hot soak it in Kroil and let it sit then clean it . The problem is that chemicals don't do good work against ring glazed barrel , but shooting , getting it warm and soaking can work . DO not JB until after all of it is out of the barrel . Basically clean it and shoot it out . I know thats not what you want to hear . There are anti carbon solutions that can also be used but many of them are carcinogenic, thats another option .
@@The762nato I'm just seeking practical solutions for newcomers & hunters who wants to up their game.(pun intended) Many aren't reloaders and don't have the luxury of changing powders, they will usually go with what group best in their rifles and stick with it as long as there is a supply. The first rule in my opinion is to not get carbon deposit, but following the procedures in gun cleaning products is what got me here. Without a borescope it was impossible to tell. Bronze brushes are vilified without reason, and I'm 100% convinced the bronze brush did the brunt of the work here. Even after the JB, my rifle still shoot lights out, 1/4 to 1/2 MOA. I truly enjoy this chat, one of the many reason I started this channel, a place where we can share and learn and I thank you for that. This is my short on Ed's Red ruclips.net/user/shortsO4INqIsGIRA?feature=share its just the classic recipe. Have you tweaked your recipe?
OK, I need clarification.....did you use the kroil with JB bore paste on a jag? And then brush? Or brush first? What did you use to apply the JB and kroil? Was it a jag?
I made a video on my process with better explanation. The video is in two parts. ruclips.net/video/gTKKM3j9nBI/видео.html
You should try diesel injector cleaner and nylon brush.
uh! that's interesting, I will look into that. thx!
I tried it after hearing that when my mate was serving in Iraq would strip their rifles and bath them in diesel that were on base. He served for Australia looking after US assets and stated that it worked best for cleaning.The diesel injector cleaner has diesel in it plus other detergents which I believe helps with the removal of carbon and seems to works well with a brass brush. I now use it to as my first step for a deep clean and any cheap off the shelf diesel injector cleaner works fine. I also clean and store all my rifle bolts with WD40 which seems to be best. I use no bolt lubes and find I get the smoothest action. I believe WD40 has Kerosene as its base, as I use it as a lubricant for trimming my cases and when I anneal my brass with a hot flame I can smell kerosene fumes from the WD40. Conclusion treat your rifle or hand gun like your trucks motor.
I heard of people using ATF and Ed's Red I made some Ed red myself, it works, but nothing spectacular IMO. I will definitely try it.
I would never ever use red label JB. You can ruin a barrel if you use it with a brush. Bartlien and a few other barrel makers have seen this happened. Believe the target podcast has talked about it.
Red has a smaller grit than blue. If you find the link I'd be interested. My rifle shoots better today than ever. I'm currently working on part 2 and I'll be showing some groups.
@@WildBushGrit it was a bartlien interview on believe the target
Well done
The real question is how much it matters over say shooting a 100 round match. First off, it takes "several" rounds of fouling the barrel for the zero to come back. Second, how much carbon does it take to get the bore back to shooting the best at distance. It's a diminishing return after say the 10th or 12th round where it evens it out on a clean bore, all the way to "so dirty it doesn't group any longer". The better the barrel, the lesser those problems are obviously. I have only used JB and Kroil for 30 years now but that's just the OCD kicking in. Getting the barrel fouled again in a match is the goal.
oh absolutely, i'm not even competing, i'm just hunting under 100 yards most of the time. But I fully embrace my OCD personality 😂, and yes low quality barrel fouls a lot, with lots of machining marks.
It does not take several shots for a high quality barrel to come back to zero after being cleaned to bare metal. Every single one of my many benchrest barrels(Nothing special about the barrel just what I use them for) takes one or two shots to re-zero after cleaning and oiling. Generally only one. You can typically see this on a chronograph as well. You can only be consistently clean you can't be consistently dirty. It is also at peak accuracy without additional "fouling" shots. At benchrest matches(no one shoots smaller groups at any distance at 1000 yards or under) most competitors clean after every single target which can be every ten rounds.
Excellent video sir! I`ve used Kroil and paste for decades. And i`ve tried ALL the snake cleaners that claim to do it better than the next brand, but every one has failed, except KROIL!
MOST shooters (term used loosely) are hunters. Thousands of rounds fired annually from one specific firearm are not obtained and the ranges that game is taken are below 250 yards. That being established, a gun that provides at 1.25" moa is totally acceptable for "standard" hunting scenarios.
Copper fouling actually smooths a bore by filling the imperfections within the bore's surface. Once void filling and surface burnishing occurs frictional equilibrium is achieved between the bullet/bore and copper deposition ceases building (e.g. copper on copper). Carbon build-up prevention is far more critical to accuracy longevity than copper "fouling" and EASY OFF oven cleaner takes care of it faster/better than any commercial firearm product I've dumped money into. I mean it's MADE to remove baked on carbon.
In a nutshell (for the obsessed)...., new unfired barrel - hand/fire lap, otherwise shoot it (avoid above warm heating barrel), prevent carbon build-up (throat carbon ring included) and have fun.
Erik Cortina uses CLR.
yeah but apparently some manufacturers will void your warranty, I think he made a video about that 10 months ago.
Thanks for the review. I’ve used J&B compound with great success but pairing it with the Kroil really helped…plus the bronze brush helped too.
Yes, I think the Kroil act as a lubricant and a medium, making the bronze brush glide with ease and distribute the grit of the JB evenly. I am amazed how people are still dubious about Bronze brushes... but anyway, to each their own I guess :) thanks for the comment!
Awesome review. Subscribed!
hello brother i have a question... after cleaning what you experience is about accuracy is that more accurate or are groups spread out?
Hey, I felt more consistency, that rifle was super accurate to begin with. And I also got better at reloading too. But if you want to see groups check my newer video on this topic.
ruclips.net/video/gTKKM3j9nBI/видео.html
Thanks!
Wipe Out isn’t really meant to work on hard carbon, I mean, I’m sure the bottle says you can use it for that, but Wipe Out is for your copper fouling. That’s the real purpose, and it works amazing for it.
Dont use brass brushes. Use nylon Iosso brushes. Especially for chrome lined barrels.
Chromium is the third hardest thing on the planet, good luck wearing it down with brass.
I second not buying a borescope. It has ruimed my life. Ignorance is bliss.
😂 worst 40$ spent, it made me spend 4 times more! 😂
@@WildBushGrit And additional time cleaning a barrel.
.bonne réponse
You used hoppes black mineral oil to clean out fouling? Did you think to use a solvent? And you buy from a guy that keeps his Kroll supply on a snap-on tool box... lol
The Hoppes 3 bottles kit I had was 1 High Performance gun cleaner, 2 high Performance Copper cleaner, 3 High Performance Gun Precision Oil. Whatever that means it didn't work. I don't know what you are referring to as black mineral oil.
Ive been trying to get the hard carbon out of my Tikka Tac A1 aswell and have tried most products except kroil and Jb paste .
Is there ever a chance you ll make a video showing your method of cleaning ? Thanks for the advice either way , the bore scope changed my life , i have depression and anxiety now haha jks jks
Ahahaha, yeah man, that bore scope ruined my life! I guess I'm ought to make a follow up video on that. I will!
I've used Iosso's triple action oil and bore paste combo (their version of Kroil and JB) to remove hard carbon in my TAC-A1 with factory barrel. I've yet to use it in my match grade stainless barrels but I've got a rifle with enough hard carbon now I might have to give it a go. When I use the Iosso I run a patch through with the triple action oil and let it set for a while, then use a Parker Hale style jag with a patch wrapped around it with a VERY small amount of bore paste smeared onto it and run it up and down the barrel a few times. I'll usually do 3 or 4 back and forths at the breech end then maybe two full passes before cleaning it out and checking it again with a bore scope. Iosso recommends using their brushes with the bore paste but I've heard too many times from too many people that doing so isn't good, so I've stuck with the paste on a patch method
KROIL oils the best fir guns especially
It penitrates the metal preventing corrosion and fills the pores to protect fromthe elements. It works great to loosen (especially on gun) bolts and screws. Second best is blaster that comes in a can. These oils are not TOXIC . Using HOPPES,and BARISTOL are TOXIC
Kroil is just crazy, you have to use it to fully understand. I know nothing about their toxicity, but I try to avoid drinking any of them :)
I'm hoping you consider testing just JD paste without the Kroil to see whether Kroil actually adds anything to your cleaning. I'm doubtful that it does, and that JB paste is doing 100% of the cleaning. I'm basing this belief on the fact no other liquid "solvent" seems to make a dent in carbon. I could be wrong, though.
The Kroil is used to facilitate the function of the abrasive. Kroil itself MAY only soften the surface of hard carbon only. But it aides the paste with getting improved spread throughout the bore.
@@Accuracy1st Ah, thanks for the explanation! Sounds like you could then use any liquid to serve this purpose (i.e. Hoppes, Ballistol, any off the shelf oils, etc)?
Yes, the trick was really not being afraid of using the bronze brush. The kroil is lubricating the brush most, oil will work, BUT! :) The kroil is one the best penetrative oil on the market, it will get into all the tiny cracks, under the carbon, inside microscopic gap to loosen up things, and makes it easier with the brush to flake them out.
@@toddprickett6376 Possibly, but Kroil and Free-all have been shown to be best over and over
Hi Audran its a topic that i can't wrap my head around i guess we should both do are own testing if you want to see his video GunBlue490 uploaded 20 march
The one on copper fouling? I saw it this morning. I'm not hell bent on copper fouling personally, (my beef in this video was with the carbon) I do agree with him to some extent...but... but... :) in my barrel I can see the copper turning green, meaning it is oxidizing. What does it mean to the steel underneath, does moisture penetrate the oxidized copper and start attacking the steel, idk to be honest. But here's my thinking. If a brand new clean barrel is shooting fantastic. Keeping it clean will only make it predictable. I never saw a barrel getting more accurate over time, to be honest, maybe I'm not a great shot to begin with :) Or I need to shoot 1000 yards shots to see the difference. Also, I saw a theory that says, cheaper barrels need a level of polish inside for the machining marks to be smooth out. So it would make sense for some to actually see the difference between a cheap clean barrel vs a old seasoned barrel. But for a Tikka which comes with a sub-moa accuracy out of the factory. Maybe its not as black & white. What are your observations?
@@WildBushGrit Hi Audran i like your insight of the condition of your barrel with your bore scope what it was ,and the steps you took to get it copper free ,next step would be to record after any 25 or 50 shots and see which solvent would work well.Since solvants are becoming more advanced we don't know what works best . I do think a brand new barrel should remain clean has you mentioned. All the the best ( SUB)
@@vincebelmonte7710 Thanks Vince!
Great video...Thank you
I would not substitute normal cleaning products for JB. AFTER a 1,000 and condition of barrel then I’d use JB but NOT as a regular cleaning product.
No, it is not a regular cleaning product. It helps removing old carbon deposit on neglected firearms.
Thank you for this video. Good bless
Do not run a bronze brush with JB at all. I don’t know if you shoot PRS or what but you’re actually polishing out the rifling. A lot of guys are going to CLR, 10 minute soak, flush out with 99% alcohol and go to town with a nylon brush.
But the real question: was that bit of carbon affecting accuracy or barrel life? Probably not. Probably more wear on the barrel trying to remove the last bit.
If your barrel shoots just fine with carbon fouling, you shouldn't scrub it. (honestly most barrel shoots better with 3-5 shots after being cleaned some fouling is indeed needed. I think carbon become a real problem when you have a carbon ring forming in the throat. Increasing pressure and deforming the bullet as it being forced through it. For my own rifle, I can attest, it shoots now way better than it used to.
All barrels are not created equal. There is a huge difference between a "stock" barrel and one that has been precision lapped., and cleaning,or lack thereof should be performed accordingly as per specific requirements. But I'm just an old man so what do I know?
Baked on carbon effects the best made match barrels.
Point taken as a medium I think it would work great. I still use it as a general purpose lube and it works all right. I would never use my own money to buy it. Way over hyped.
Kroil is a penetrating oil, so my guess is that Ballistol will work just as good….
The big question is, Does all penetrating oils created equal? :) Kroil is primarily used by the aeronautic industry, there could be a good reason. But you may be right, Ballistol could be working just as well... but tbh :) I prefer the smell of Kroil :)
I would choose Kroil every time, since Ballistol smells like dirty feet.
Thanks
Bronze brush and turtle wax chrome polish.
Ok thanks
Thank you sir
They say bronze brushes are good as long as you don't use
abrasives. If you use abrasives nylon brush.
I would love to get your source, if you don't mind.
Ok. I bought a borescope 😭😭😭
Then I bought some Kroil and JB Bore Cleaner.
Been RE-CLEANING all my pew pews for 5 days straight.
KROIL & JB BORE CLEANER WORKS!!!!!
You bet it works! and it make subsequent cleaning much faster too. Welcome to the club!
Try Free All vs Kriol.
Try Thurro Clean
Next, try wrapping Fine bronze wool in a bronze bristle or plastic brush to scrub with JB, etc
Lol, just got a bore scope, I know exactly what you mean.
ahahaha, good luck!
I know my 700spsv shoots better witb a dirty barrel. I cleaned it and it took 5 shots to get it back.
yeah its usually the case, in my experience you need a 2 to 5 rounds to get to peak accuracy.