Why didn't Elrond take the Ring from Isildur after Sauron was defeated?

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 4 фев 2025

Комментарии • 51

  • @CounciloftheRings
    @CounciloftheRings  3 года назад +22

    The channel have reached 500 subscribers, so thanks for all the support! I hope you all enjoyed this video on a topic I've seen many wonder
    One more point to add to this though - When Frodo offers the One Ring to Gandalf in the fellowship of the Ring, Gandalf responds the following:
    "He [Frodo] weighed the Ring in his hand, hesitating, and forcing himself to remember all that Gandalf had told him; and then with an effort of will he made a movement, as if to cast it away - but he found that he had put it back in his pocket.
    Gandalf laughed grimly. 'You see? Already you too, Frodo, cannot easily let it go, nor will to damage it. And I could not "make" you - except by force, which would break your mind. But as for breaking the Ring, force is useless..."
    The Fellowship of the Ring, LoTR Book 1, Ch 2, The Shadow of the Past
    I think this would very likely also apply here as well, if Elrond somehow tried to force Isildur to destroy it. He would simply lose his mind.
    Thanks for all the support you guys give to the channel! I truly appreciate it, it's a dream come true!

    • @dronesclubhighjinks
      @dronesclubhighjinks 4 месяца назад +1

      I just dropped by for a refresher on Isildur!
      January 8, 2022. That is the date on this video in which you are thanking us for 500 subs! Just a few days ago, you were celebrating 25,000! 👏🎉📣🎆

    • @CounciloftheRings
      @CounciloftheRings  4 месяца назад

      @@dronesclubhighjinks Yeah it's nice to see progress though 2023 was a very slow year as I hot 20k on Tolkien's birthday (Jan 3rd). I think I started 2024 out with 22k or so 😁
      So it's nice things are speeding up - which makes sense with more videos coming out

    • @dronesclubhighjinks
      @dronesclubhighjinks 4 месяца назад +1

      @@CounciloftheRings Wow!! 20K in one year is amazing! In approx February and March 2023, something about the algorithm changed drastically. Channels that used to get 10,000 views per video were struggling to get 1000 views. Channels that used to get 2000 views were barely reaching 200. A lot of the smaller channels quit and I don’t blame them.
      I remember it happened shortly after the first season of Velma. There has been such a long stretch of horrible shows starting with She hulk, ROP, Witcher Blood Origin etc so there was lots of fresh content.
      Anyway, very happy for you!! 🙏😎🧡

    • @CounciloftheRings
      @CounciloftheRings  4 месяца назад

      @@dronesclubhighjinks Yeah I noticed as well. I think the algorithm could use some improvements. They often praise new channels, which is fine, but they should be better at recommending "good content" to people interesting in the topic. Now it seems to mainly 'gossip', 'drama' and 'reaction' content that works. I've even done it twice to see how effective it actually is - which should be clear by now. Both have landed in my top 5 most viewed videos. While that is good, I hope to move away from it and just get good views on the videos I truly want to create. I just finished a script for an upcoming one called "The Orc Within Us | Tolkien's Philosophy". I hope it performs well. If you're curious you can see the thumbnail and read the script on Patreon, btw. Let's see how it all goes, it might be done in a week or two, especially with the reviews I've committed to make.
      Cheers! 🧙‍♂❤

    • @dronesclubhighjinks
      @dronesclubhighjinks 4 месяца назад +1

      @@CounciloftheRings wow, that is a very interesting premise for a video! Definitely looking forward to that one! I wonder if the ROP writers were clumsily trying to mention this topic in the first conversation between little girl “Galadriel” and her brother. About touching the light and not knowing until you’ve touched the dark first or something.
      I think we are past the halfway point for rings of power season two so that is good news. Imho it was a mistake to leave two years between seasons. Back when we had television, shows like Star Trek:TNG, and The X-Files had 26 episodes ending on a cliffhanger, then there would be a four or five month break and the next season would start. I remember it being an agonizingly long wait. Then again, those cliffhangers were amazing and the writers and directors were actual professionals!
      Thanks again for all your hard work!!

  • @Dare_To_Game
    @Dare_To_Game 2 года назад +31

    I always tell people. "Because he isn't a murderer." Tolkien was not a consequentialist. Elrond is meant to be a righteous and good character, so therefore, the ends would not justify the means for him.

    • @AesirUnlimited
      @AesirUnlimited 2 года назад

      Maybe if they did a lot more suffering could’ve been avoided.

    • @joshdawson5850
      @joshdawson5850 2 года назад +1

      @@AesirUnlimited That’s the debate between Kantian and Utilitarian moral philosophy right there…

    • @AesirUnlimited
      @AesirUnlimited 2 года назад +3

      @@joshdawson5850 The ends would have justified the means. Elrond deciding to be “good” and “moral” led to countless ages of suffering and death. He looked down on Isildur for making the wrong choice, when he himself made an equally damaging decision at that very same moment. The ring enduring allowed evil to survive and spread throughout middle earth. Countless men, Dwarves, and elves could have been saved if Elrond intervened at that moment.

    • @mockingbirdarmada
      @mockingbirdarmada Год назад +2

      You find yourself asked that question regularly?

  • @spacejunk2186
    @spacejunk2186 2 года назад +12

    Because Elrond was not a murderer, and because Isildur kind of had a claim on the ring as war spoil. He cut of the ring from Saurons hand. Sauron was the reason he spent 7 years in a sige in Mordor under constant vulcano fire. Sauron killed his father, and preaty much caused the destruction of his home. Then there was also the fact that at that time, nobody really knew what the One Ring actually did or how it worked. This was something Saruman was later tasked to uncover.
    So other than saying "My gut says this is not a good idea", there was really no real reason to object Isildurs choice.

  • @corpsefoot758
    @corpsefoot758 3 года назад +23

    I always thought that Elrond knew he’d become swiftly corrupted by Sauron’s ring as soon as he snatched it, the same exact way Galadriel warned Frodo about offering it to her 🤷‍♂️
    Alternatively, Elrond might simply have chosen not to take the Ring because Isildur would sooner part with his life than with the Ring, and killing Isildur to steal from him would make Elrond as evil as Sauron, thus rendering any moral quest to conquer the Ring’s malice immediately & completely meaningless

    • @CounciloftheRings
      @CounciloftheRings  3 года назад +12

      Yeah totally. Both like Gandalf and Galadriel he too had one of the elf rings, and he would likely have become very powerful wielding both. Resisting the temptation of the Ring could indicate that he was powerful enough to resist the temptation.
      And yeah if he had indeed taken the Ring he would have been no better than Sauron himself.

    • @ColoradoStreaming
      @ColoradoStreaming 2 года назад +4

      In the books a huge factor in how the ring influences you is how you acquired it. Gollum murdered his friend for the ring which is why it corrupted him so quickly, Bilbo won the ring being kind of shady with the riddle so he was affected but not totally corrupted (Although he lied a lot about how he got it), Frodo was given the ring freely which is why he was not corrupted as much despite Sauron having grown in power and his wound by the Morgul knife. If Elrond took the ring by killing Isildur the corruption would be immediate. This is also why Gandalf was careful in how he asked Bilbo to leave the ring to Frodo.

    • @kodesh1674
      @kodesh1674 2 года назад

      @@CounciloftheRings that ring wouldn’t be able to corrupt me

  • @rimservices
    @rimservices 2 года назад +8

    Tolkien doesn't give a definitive answer in Lord of the Rings and Silmarillion who killed Sauron, so yes, "Sauron was thrown down" supposedly by Elendil and Gil-Galad, but as you quote yourself, Isildur claimed to deal the Enemy the deathblow, so likely there was still at least some coup-de-grace business to be done

  • @johnt.inscrutable1545
    @johnt.inscrutable1545 2 года назад +4

    It would have cut the story short for sure. But as you very eloquently explained killing Isildur was not in Elrond’s nature. And listing for trophies to display one’s power and having such is very much a part of the nature of men. Plus, in his grief he can’t be expected to behave 100% rationally. Nor would the ring, even recently wrench from Sauron’s hand, allow itself to be so easily destroyed for it still contained the greater part of Sauron’s will.
    Great job, great video. Liked and subscribed with bells on. Lol.

  • @ellanenish5999
    @ellanenish5999 3 года назад +6

    Pushing Isildur into lava sounds much more insane then Eagles to Mordor

    • @alexdietz7362
      @alexdietz7362 2 года назад

      I know people who would of taken themselves down with him. I like the scene, but it is flawed. maybe it was the strength of elves that was being tested that day too.

  • @ali-aqmusic
    @ali-aqmusic 3 года назад +6

    Great video Mellon, keep up the good work!!

  • @finrod55
    @finrod55 2 года назад +21

    All the good and wise characters in LOTR (& the whole legendarium) subscribe to the ethic of respecting free choice. Gandalf and others say they “didn’t have the right” to do this or that because doing so would have coerced someone against their will. The implication was that coercing another on a world~shaking issue, even for a good cause, would have some negative consequences down the line. Certainly Elrond would know that, especially as he was foresighted..

    • @TheJmlew11
      @TheJmlew11 2 года назад

      I think this needs to be nuanced some. Because to some extent, standing up to evil is indeed infringing upon the ‘choice’ of said evil. More than this notion of ethics applies to those who could do good, and giving them the capacity to choose it, rather than evil. Also there is no sense of utilitarianism in which ‘the needs of the many’ would justify an evil action.

  • @Crafty_Spirit
    @Crafty_Spirit 2 года назад +11

    Unfinished Tales as I recall implies that Isildur eventually decided to hand over the ring to Elrond for safekeeping, so yeah I think he started to resist the ring.
    Too bad that an Orc warband had lingered in the vales of Anduin since the preparation phase for the War of the Last Alliance. That force was sent to intercept the army of Gil-Galad and Elendil. The orcs did not dare to attack and waited the whole war out xD
    Later, the sad state of what was left from the host of Greenwood and Lórien passed by and this encouraged the orcs to later attack Isildur's host, alongside with the malicious call from the One Ring.
    Isildur could not know that the grievous losses Oropher's and Amdir's people suffered would bite back at him as well 🤔

  • @GravityCreations100
    @GravityCreations100 3 года назад +4

    Absolutely amazing brother! Keep up the excellent work! Looking forward to the more such videos and the marvelous growth of the channel!🤩🤩

    • @CounciloftheRings
      @CounciloftheRings  3 года назад +1

      Thanks man! Yeah I have a lot in mind including a ton of theories I've come up with myself (of course backed up my bits of lore). I'm currently struggling editing the last bits of the next video - The Geography of Middle-Earth: Mountains.
      Lots of stuff in that to dive into

  • @Enerdhil
    @Enerdhil 3 года назад +2

    Great video. Concise and clear.👍

  • @Dino-god69
    @Dino-god69 2 года назад +2

    I always assumed he didn’t wanna kill the King of Men and start a war lol

  • @920mario
    @920mario 3 года назад +1

    Great video! This scene came to mind and i was wondering Why didn't he

  • @cyrusvile6622
    @cyrusvile6622 2 года назад +2

    I always thought that the ring petrified Elrond similar to everyone else. We see that hobbits at mere sight of the ring are paralyzed [frodo and bilbo], elves are stronger. But still not strong enough. So he could not strike the ring barer

  • @RayThomasFilms
    @RayThomasFilms 2 года назад

    Also, he could just put the ring on and it would make him invisible and "you can't fight what you can't see! Float like a butterfly sting like the king of men...

  • @kakonoteouji4876
    @kakonoteouji4876 2 года назад +2

    Cause you willingly couldn't destroy the Ring could only be destroyed accidentally. Plus Isildor was his great something nephew. Least that how I see it though could be wrong.

  • @altynnazar
    @altynnazar 4 месяца назад

    because if he did, there would be no movie, no books, it would end right there, no Frodo

  • @alasdair_10
    @alasdair_10 3 года назад +3

    Is the Witch King of Númenor? If he is from Númenor, can he be consider a kind of black numenorean?

    • @CounciloftheRings
      @CounciloftheRings  3 года назад +5

      Yes we know that three of the nazgûl were lords from Númenor. One of these would later be known as the Witch-king.
      No he wasn't a black numenorean (King's men). They are both evil, but their story is different. The King's men were formed around 2221 in the Second Age and in 2251 the Witch-king appeared as a Ringwraith for the first time. Would likely have taken more than 30 years to turn a man into a wraith.
      We don't know exactly when the witch-king was given a ring of power, but Sauron took the 9 rings during the sack of Eregion in 1697 second age and some time after that he gave them to Men (3 of these were lords of Numenor and 1 (Khamûl) was a ruler in Rhûn). So I'd assume the witch-king got the ring somewhere between 1701-2200. I would assume it takes some time before he turned into a wraith. Personally I'd think Sauron gave it around 1900-2100, but we can never know.

    • @rimservices
      @rimservices 2 года назад

      @@CounciloftheRings also he is always described as the tallest of the Nine, and height is a staple feature of Numenoreans in Tolkien's books, e.g. Elendil

  • @brunorothwell4662
    @brunorothwell4662 3 года назад +4

    HE HE HE HA

  • @TrainerCTZ
    @TrainerCTZ 8 месяцев назад

    Isildur never used the ring?

  • @jon368100
    @jon368100 4 месяца назад

    Because then there wouldn’t be a story.

  • @nellyfrittata8319
    @nellyfrittata8319 2 года назад

    How was Isildur taken down by orcs when he had the power of the ring?

    • @realDarkPeterson
      @realDarkPeterson Год назад +2

      The Ring betrayed him. It has a will of its' own, and the power of the Ring is Sauron's power alone. Whatever power you may receive from wielding it is only loaned power. It may decide to betray you at any given time. The Ring's sole objective is to return to Sauron. During the ambush, it altered its' shape to slip out of Isildur's fingers.

  • @920mario
    @920mario 3 года назад

    So Arogan married his cousin?

    • @CounciloftheRings
      @CounciloftheRings  3 года назад +5

      Yeah in a sense, though I would say it’s more disturbing to marry your ‘foster sister’, as Elrond more or less adopts Aragorn.

    • @tominiowa2513
      @tominiowa2513 3 года назад +8

      First cousin, 64 times removed (if I counted correctly).

    • @920mario
      @920mario 3 года назад

      @@tominiowa2513 damnnnnnnnnn

    • @CounciloftheRings
      @CounciloftheRings  3 года назад +1

      @@tominiowa2513 Hahah legend ❤