Three Options For Bluing Steel
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- email: 357mdad@gmail.com
instagram: @357_magdad
Music: "Finding Light" by Dan Lebowitz
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Steel wool has some oil in it to keep it from rusting. If you rinse your steel wool in Acetone, it removes the oil and prevents contamination of the metal to be blued.
I make sure to clean the item after buffing with steel wool.
Nice comparison. The object of bluing is to convert the free iron atoms on the surface to Magnetite. This will remove the free iron so it can not be converted to iron oxide (red rust), which is highly damaging. The magnetite is a very protective layer to red rust formation. This is how the inside of boilers are protected, by the formation of magnetite. Magnetite is a soft material and can be removed quite easily. By multiple applications of all the methods you are able to do more converting. The magnetite is a soft fully material and will absorb oil quite readily. This gives it added protection from iron oxide. Inside a well protected power boiler I have seen the magnetite 1/4" thick, and not a single spot of red rust anywhere, and the boiler is full of hot water.
Thanks for the information!
I'd like to try the rust bluing with a proper factory made rusting solution.
So, wouldn't the hot water convert any oxidized (red rusted) material into magnetite? That seems to me to be the reason it is so thick inside the boiler?
Heating steel above 400'f will cause it to become a "straw" color (light yellow). Around 500'f it becomes brown and at 600'f you begin to see purple/blue. It will then turn gray at 800'f. These are all in the temperature ranges that result in "tempering". Tempering causes carbon steel to lose its hardness regardless of if you dunk it in oil. Also, heating it to where it turns blue will cause the steel grains to become larger which is bad. The only way to remedy this is to heat the steel to where it is no longer magnetic, around 1450'f for your typical carbon knife steel, then depending on the type of steel, either dunk in water or oil. Low carbon steels were typically never hard to begin with and cannot be hardened in this manner. You'd have to heat low carbon steel to non magnetic while in an oxygen free container with carbon surrounding it in order to make it stronger... a total waste of time and money. Basically, don't heat blue any steel that is "mission critical" unless you really know what you're doing.
Thanks for watching, and well said!
I bought a DIY 2400 watt induction heating board for 50 bucks just to play around with this. Been using my stick welder to power it. Didn't know about the oxygen-free thing though, been quenching mild steel in the wife's tea candles (shhh, they're paraffin) with some success.
💡 I got a vacuum pump laying around here somewhere...
I agree with 'Randy Richard in The Shop' that the aim is to get a layer of magnetite. The best way to achieve this is to allow red surface rust (ferric oxide) to form and then subject the component to electrolysis. The cathodic reaction produces hydrogen gas because two oxygen atoms combine with the rust (ferric oxide) to form magnetite. This is much more efficient than boiling it in distilled water which simply 'undissolves' oxygen in the hope that it will attach to the rust as opposed to a proper chemical reaction by splitting the water molecules by electrolysis. You see magnetite on the blackened steel tools that never seem to rust.
Thanks for watching Matt! Check out my long term corrosion test of the rust blued washer:
ruclips.net/video/H9sngIhUGI8/видео.html
Interesting comparison. I use hot blueing for the appearance, rather than surface protection - it might be interesting to overcoat with clear coat (which will help preserve the blueing) 👍🏻🔧
I think you could clear coat it as long as you de-greased the part well.
Extremely helpful and enjoyable. I am researching for a bike frame - would be beautiful but quite the endeavour. Cold blue liquid is probably not a commonly available product to me either. I really enjoyed this video and learned. Thanks
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I think a bike frame would be a real challenge to blue!
I’d also add that although for your purposes all three methods work well, cold bluing is usually the only way to blue larger items. Furniture makers and restorers catering to the industrial/steampunk crowd often use cold bluing to add character to steel decorative elements; I can't imagine trying to rust- or heat-blue a chair frame or loft railing. (Just in case you were wondering why it can be bought in a gallon jug 😅)
Gunsmiths often build a steam tank for rust bluing.
Good one Magdad! I was surprised at how easily they were removed.
Thanks David! I'm not sure any finish would hold up to scraping with a pocket knife!
Great demonstration! I like the magnet trick for polishing. 👍
Glad chuck was able to Flitz!
Thanks Robert! Those little super strong magnets come in handy!
Thank you for showing how bluing was done way back when... I did not know the 3rd, rust method.
Thanks for watching! I tweaked the rusting formula on a recent project and got better results!
ruclips.net/video/4iyyRY8nFdo/видео.html
If you get Mrs. Magdad a new hair dryer for Christmas that one would become Mr. Magdad's dedicated shop dryer! Could also set them outside for a few months to see how they hold up, and revisit!
@357 Magdad That would be a great idea. Get Mrs. Magdad a new hair dryer with all the bells & whistles, whatever that is. After awhile, a hair dryer can become a fire hazard depending on what builds up inside. Kinda like sawdust & finishes build up in a power tool. Just a thought.☺
She lets me use it because she does not use it much. I would like to pick up a heat gun at a yard sale sometime.
I picked up dad a harbor freight one like 25 years ago on a 30% off coupon...he had to take it back twice to get one that worked but that last one still works like a champ.
The oil helps to protect the bluing, which is essentially magnetite, and inert, and is the primary protection for the base metal. Oil seals microscopic pores in the magnetite to prevent the base metal from oxidizing under the magnetite.
Thanks for watching! You may find my follow-up videos interesting!
ruclips.net/video/Z5ubCDqQwt4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/H9sngIhUGI8/видео.html
One fast way to test corrosion resistance is grap a bit of clay from the ground, make a slurry with water. Any iron in contact with clay slurry tends to oxidize in 24h,unless has good surface protection.
Thanks for watching! Check out my corrosion tests on the washers:
ruclips.net/video/Z5ubCDqQwt4/видео.html
Very interesting.
I was surprised the bluing was not abrasion resistant. At least we got some Christmas Flitz. Merry Christmas Mr & Mrs Magdad. You too Chucky Bird. 🎄
Thanks Mark! Merry Christmas!
Another thing to consider: it's not advisable to oil rust blued items for a while after you are done with the last boil and clean. Converted black oxide is still a rust oxide, and will react with oil.
Thanks for watching! I have done quite a bit of research on cold bluing and had not come across your advice.
My first bluing attempt yielded a mottled blue finish on some polished 1055 steel. I used 4 applications and used steelwool washing off the oils in between cleaning. I also got a rainbow effect on polished 1045 steel which steelwool and washing/alcohol rub did mitigate allowing a more solid looking gunmetal finish. Some imperfections showed slightly still after 5 applications. One thing I noticed with this steel is that some rust-looking film formed after a 30 min or afterwaed. It came off with a clean rag and alcohol, and I coated it with a light polymer which kept it from doing that again. The 1066 steel I did, was perhaps the best probably because of the higher grade. While it was only wirebrush cleaned, I still used the same process as the 1045. Every application came out noticeably darker, even and more cleanly than the others. It became the darkest of all I have done. All these were done in a few hours.
I still don't like that it scratches so easily, so I may use a bit of clear coat to protect it more.
Thanks for watching Matthew. I have found that the cold bluing solutions work better if the part is not highly polished. That may be why your 1066 part turned out better. I also soak the part in non detergent 30 weight oil at least over night, usually longer to set the finish. I've got a rust bluing video coming out this weekend that you might find interesting - stay tuned!
Good video and techniques. Some not so pricey, yet effective. Keep in mind that Super Blue has no rust protection properties unless you start with Rust Bluing at first the Perma Blue then Super Blue.
Thanks for watching! I think the thin film of oil provides the corrosion protection as shown by the salt spray test I performed on the blued washers.
@@357magdad it does, but starting the treatment at the metal helps. The oils only back it up.
Very interesting,will give it a try!!! Thanks for sharing!!!
Thanks for watching! Check out my bluing playlist:
ruclips.net/p/PL2LUCgmdqpXOpk4SmLUUxAXQWGICpF_v6
Very cool comparison, Magdad! I think you are correct about the oil being the corrosion resistance feature. The rust blue method sure pitted the washer. The AJB on the washers is my initials, pretty cool.
Thanks AJB! I noticed that the hydrogen peroxide/salt really ate into the soft low carbon steel washer. I've seen other home brew recipes that included vinegar and used less salt.
@@357magdad I have only seen the rust method of blueing on modern remakes of old firearms. I would like to think efforts like ours would last longer but someday someone is going to restore our old restorations of tools...or not. AJB is my birth initials, no meme.
I would be curious how they might look after another 24 wait after spritzing them with the salt water after the last test. Just to see which one seemed to have any better affect on limiting corrosion. Though I suspect they would all rust equally, with the possible exception of the hot bluing one. Very interesting!
I put all four outside this morning! I'm curious how they'll hold up in rain and snow!
Love the info and Ingenuity as usual ....very cool investigation of bluing ...thumbs up! Professor Magdad :]
Thanks D&R! I should have had a white lab coat on while doing the rust bluing - I felt like a mad scientist!
That was great! Thank you for putting that all in one video. It was very informative. It reminded me of a project farm video. 😁
Thanks! I'm glad you found the video helpful!
Which cold bluing solution works best, we’re gonna test that! 😂
The cold looks the nicest but the rust stood up to the sanding very well imo. Flame seems to be the easiest (or tied with cold) and it will work on stainless steel too.
Thanks for watching! Check out my "improved formula" rust blue video:
ruclips.net/video/7lXeT2qzCi0/видео.html
Professional work! Very interessant.👍Thank you for share!
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Tres bon!
There is a fourth one. It's not really bluing but blacking. You heat the metal and dunk it into Linseed oil. You do this several time till you get a nice black finish.
Thanks for the suggestion Ray!
I had no idea boiling red oxide in plain water turned it to black oxide. I'll give it a go
The rust bluing held up really well in my extended outdoor test!
I don't know if I'll ever have a reason to blue any steel, but it was a neat video.
Thanks for watching!
You tend to use it as a visual accent and that's how I would use it too, so it seems Cold Bluing is the best option for that purpose.
I agree, the cold bluing the best for making old tools look fancy!
Great video and very well done thanks for sharing time thanks again and stay safe. 👍👍
Thanks Brian!
Very interesting and educational. I appreciate this video and have added it to my 357 Magdad file. Thank You for sharing.
Thanks Jack! I'm glad the video was helpful!
Hi magdad,
It would be great if you could leave these four washers in their current conditions out in the weather for about 6 months. A comparison then would be cool!
I put them outside this morning!
Update?
I'm doing some research on this subject for a project & this is very informative & helpful. Thank you.
Thanks for watching! I'm glad my video was helpful!
Best explanation I've found so far. Thanks!
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I did a recent project using a different rust bluing solution and had better results.
ruclips.net/video/4iyyRY8nFdo/видео.html
Also do nitre bluing and caustic bluing. Non-binder Charcoal straight, charcoal with added charred bone, charcoal with added bone and pre-1973 ATF (which is whale oil.)
Thanks for watching! Both of those methods are beyond what I want to try in my small basement shop.
Great comparison! I'm still looking for a really durable finish for my tools, but maybe that's just not something that's really realistic for our home shops at reasonable (read: I'm a cheapskate) prices too. Have a great Sunday!
Brownells Alumahyde. It’s like duracoat or cerakoat just cheaper and less color options
Linseed oil diluted with mineral spirits works well on metals. Cheap and easy. I usually follow it up with paste wax.
Thanks Alex! I was impressed that the Johnson's paste wax was able to protect against corrosion!
.
Nice video, I have watched a few videos on bluing, this is the one that has saved me some money.
Bluing would be useless for my tools, I am going to stick with enamel paints after watching this.
Thanks.
Thanks for watching! Paint is a great finish option!
Can you flame blue but then dip in the bluing salutation? Just asking ....love your content
Thanks for watching! I'm not sure - maybe I'll give it a try!
Very well explained sir.
Thanks for watching! I have a rust bluing video coming up this weekend!
Also oil blacking. Heat as hot as willing to go, preferably cherry then dip in dirty engine oil.
However for superior results send the parts for chemical blacking at your local plating company. Ensure the parts have as good a finish as possible prior to plating. This is how engineering companies do it.
Thanks for watching Brian! Be careful, heating the part to cherry red will remove the temper. You may also make the part brittle by quenching it too quickly in the oil.
Heat bluing works better if you heat the part on a bed of metal chips that you heat from below. More even, gives great results.
OK thanks!
@@357magdad have you ever seen Clickspring?
That was interesting. You got me interested in blueing and I have done a couple. Still learning from you. Thanks
Thanks Glen! I enjoy experimenting with different finishes!
Brownells gunsmithing catalog has a bunch of different products for bluing. I enjoy your videos and your little buddy.
Thanks for watching! I want to try their Oxpho Blue next!
Thanks for the great comparisons. Could come in handy one day .👍
Worked great I used rust blue got my trigger solid black
I done it a lot a got way way darker results
I like the way you did that thank you it lets us all see what blowing of those kinds does thank you very much keep up the good work
Thanks Roger! I'm glad you found the video helpful!
Great comparison and breakdown.
I have a tip. If you have a nice, blued knife blade, do not use a kydex sheath. They are brutal.
That is pretty neat Thank you for the video
Thanks for watching!
One thing that I would mention is I personally dont consider your flame bluing technique to be true bluing per say. Hot salt bluing and rust bluing is mostly used, as mentioned, for pacifying steel and giving a minor layer of rust protection to the steel, while your flame bluing is really only used for aesthetic reasons. I could be wrong on this however!
Cold bluing is also primarily aesthetic, but is meant to mimic true rust/hot bluing.
Thanks for watching! I chose options that are feasible for someone to do at home.
I use heat bluing on antique clock screws. I have had clocks over 150 years old with the original bluing still protecting the screws from rusting.
Like the project farm of the tool community!
That "heat blueing" that you're talking about is known as "color case hardening".
Thanks for watching! Color case hardening is a different, more complicated process that hardens the surface of the steel and adds color based on chemicals added when heating.
Great tutorial! Great results too! 😃👍
Thanks ScoutCrafter! I'm glad the Johnson's paste wax was able to protect against corrosion!
The problem with Cold Bluing is it has no resistance to abrasion, acids from fingerprints, nor chemicals used to clean guns.
Cold blue is mostly for looks.
Whale oil used to be the preferred oil back in the day. Not so much of it around these days I guess...
That is interesting Martin!
Cool stuff! You always do a great job bluing. That perma blue looks like it’s the easiest one to use. However that rust bluing really is fun to watch. 😀👍
The rust bluing is fun - I feel like a mad scientist!
Thanks for the info 👍 been wondering about different coatings... way back in the early 80s I restored a old chest wrapped in tin ..and leather. It was very rough... I used a product called rustmort? It turned the rust dark brown and was very durable! I kept the chest for many years and it never turned.. has anyone heard of this?
Very cool. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching Daniel! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Thanks for showing the options
I thought it would be good reference!
Do an oxidation test without the oil to have an accurate test of the finish
Check out my extended corrosion test:
ruclips.net/video/Z5ubCDqQwt4/видео.html
And my long term rust blue test:
ruclips.net/video/H9sngIhUGI8/видео.html
Great video, thanks.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Check out my follow up videos:
ruclips.net/video/Z5ubCDqQwt4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/H9sngIhUGI8/видео.html
Very interesting. Thank you
I'm glad you found it interesting! Check out my follow up tests:
ruclips.net/video/Z5ubCDqQwt4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/H9sngIhUGI8/видео.html
highly informative video. i have made an awning from angle iron that will be exposed to the outdoors, do you suggest bluing or simply applying a coat of epoxy paint will be better?
I think you would be better off painting a large item.
Awesome. Thank you for this video
Thanks For watching Wayne! I just made a playlist with all of the bluing videos in it!
Great test, thank you, much appreciated 🍻👍👍
Thanks Chris!
Very helpful! Thanks
Thanks for watching! I'm glad my video was helpful!
Very helpful and interesting - thanks!
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you found my video helpful!
What a lot of shagging around with chemicals that produce a poor result, the only one was the heat blue which produces a lovely blue color when polished and heated evenly and cooled quickly at the right temperature,I know from a lot of experience of producing the new blue color on clock hands and screws.
Thanks for watching! I enjoy shagging around in the shop!
@@357magdad sometimes shagging is more fun.
Are there all equal to rust protect? Did some cold bluing and the part started rusting again the day after the 24hours in oil. Maybe one of my step wasn’t done properly 😅 (not following you method tho, now I’m doing more research)
I’m trying to refinish pliers because they were pretty rusted. Would there be a finish better than bluing?
Cold blue will not prevent rust. Check out my video on rust bluing:
ruclips.net/video/7lXeT2qzCi0/видео.html
Interesting, informative video. Thanks.
Thanks Ben!
Interesting technique and comparison
Thanks!
I guess you could use a laquer or other transparent coating after bluing to protect it further and retain the nice colour?
I tend to use bluing where I don't want to paint. I have tried waxing the parts with success.
I have gotten good results with flame bluing as well
Thanks for watching! Flame bluing is really handy for small hardware.
Nice video.
Thank you!
Does the length of time a bluing agent is applied effect either the depth of color, or how deep the blued layer is that results?
I've found that leaving the Perma Blue / Super Blue on too long negatively affects the finish. Multiple coats with steel wool buffing in between seems to yield the best results for me.
Interesting experiment, Thanks 👍👍
Thanks Sparky! I have the washers sitting outside it the weather to see what happens.
@@357magdad 👍 😊
Thanks for showing 3 ways of doing this ..I am going to try flame blueing on a project part
If your careful, you can tune into the exact shade of blue / purple before quenching in oil.
great information....thanks for sharing.
Thank you!
Very well done and executed DIY video. Question: Can 2 cycle motor oil be used for heat bluing? The stuff I have is all ready blue! 😄
Thanks, Wakodahatchee Chris
Thanks for watching! I bet any oil would work!
I just put stuff on top of the kitchen gas cooker until il glows red, then dump it into a can containing oil. Any oil.
Thanks for watching! Flame bluing is an option - just make sure the "stuff" you heat glowing red isn't heat treated (like a blade or tool).
the cold bluing really is for touch-ups i dont give great protection at all and its worn off easy. For rust bluing u used wrong mix i think becouse rust was not unifrom and fine but it makes little holes, u also forget to try the 4th method :) boiling in Sodium bicarbonate, which gives great and strong blueing.
Thanks for watching! I have had success with an improved DIY rust bluing solution:
ruclips.net/video/4iyyRY8nFdo/видео.html
@@357magdad thats nice
Very interesting😊
Thanks for watching! Check out my further tests with these washers:
ruclips.net/video/Z5ubCDqQwt4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/H9sngIhUGI8/видео.html
thanks i used the hot blueing on some stripper clipps
Thanks for watching!
So you Spritzed the Flitz?
The Flitz was spritzed!
There is many types of cold bluing. Some work better than others.
I've had good results with Birchwood Casey's Perma Blue and Super Blue. I've heard good things about Oxpho Blue - I'd like to give it a try next!
Doesn't tap water introduce other chemicals into the process?? I would of thought distilled water or just an acetone bath would be better.
I'm not sure what "process" you are talking about. I used distilled water for rust bluing. Cold bluing manufacturers recommend rinsing in tap water.
Well done!
Thanks!
Thanks!
You're welcome!
I wonder if you can achieve a darker finish with combined techniques and would that make it more corrosion resistant!
Thanks for watching! The cold blue and rust blue will darken with repeated applications. The rust bluing is the best for corrosion protection. Check out my long terms tests!
ruclips.net/video/Z5ubCDqQwt4/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/H9sngIhUGI8/видео.html
bluing doesnt really claim to b scratch resistant, simply oxidation..
Thanks for watching! I was curious how scratch resistant it was.
nice vid! Thanks. Do you think that boiling in water could also affect the hardening of wheel bolts? I also heard of hydrogen embrittlement. Could the peroxide also affect the strength of wheel bolts?
Thanks for watching! 212 degree water and the low concentration of the common drug store grade hydrogen peroxide I used has no effect on the steel.
I did try to cold blue couple of nuts, after a while they got covered by a thin layer of rust, which goes with a wipe. Do you have any idea why this is happening?
Make sure you rinse with water after application, then buff with 0000 steel wool and soak in oil.
I think rust bluing can be the best but not so much when you speed up the rusting process so much. I have seen a video on here of someone using a 1 hour rust blue process that did not leave pits. I don't remember their name though. I believe they used a similar solution but not as strong.
Thanks for watching! I've had better luck with a slightly different rusting formula:
ruclips.net/video/4iyyRY8nFdo/видео.html
@@357magdad Thanks I'll check that out!
Just like everything else on youtube you won’t know what you prefer until you do it yourself.
Interesting Video! Cool!!
Thanks Bill! I have a follow up video coming soon!
@@357magdad Merry 🎄
It would be interesting to know what kind of reaction is taking place in cold bluing.
I believe the cold bluing deposits a coating of copper on the part with chemicals added to make it appear black.
difference in reduction potential between iron and selenium dioxide. iron is oxidized to iron (II) (III) oxide, magnetite. selenium is reduced to elemental selenium. black color is from the magnetite.
I've tried birchwood Casey and I've learned that no matter what you do it's got a coating of selenium and to me it smells nasty and I'm not only one who hates that smell. I've read online people avoid refurbished guns becaue you cannot get rid of the selenium oder
I sniffed several projects that I've blued with either Birchwood Casey Perma Blue or Super Blue and I can't detect any odor. A rifle is a lot larger than anything I've worked on, so maybe the odor is more detectable.
@@357magdad I blued a pair of pliers and it's horrid I can't stand the smell. Maybe I'm allergic to selenium because after I use them for a few minutes I can smell it on my hands for the rest of the day and it's nasty.
@@maddawgnoll I don't have any interest in guns. All I know is the websites that manufacturer blueing say it's a selenium reaction that makes the color and it smells nasty to me. And doesn't come off your hands for hours after you touch it. I don't want anything to do with that smell.
@@maddawgnoll thanks brother I hope so. I restored a beautiful pair of pliers from spain. And the smell keeps me away.
That was great! Clay tried the flame blueing, but we were thinking in F when we should have been thinking in C🤣. Cheers
Thanks Joe! Even with the propane torch I get carried away and get things too hot sometimes!
Some samurai armour was coated in a dark rust patina called russet iron (instead of urushi lacquer). Would the rust process shown here be how that was done?
Could be!
Very helpfull, thank you 🙂
Thanks Amos! I have an update on the rust blued washer coming up this weekend!
Very informative Magdad. Thanks. I just blued a King Dick wrench with great results. Will put in upcoming video.
Thanks John! I'm glad you had success with the bluing!
I got your package - thank you!