i understand that. For 100 bugs, you can start play a miniture game, have youre rules, minitures and maybe paint. How many games as big as this are can say that, meaning it as start to play 40k
@@christianvandenboorn6001 Killteam is how I got into 40k aswell. Cheaper, better character models (more personality) and games dont take as long. Imo its the perfect way to try out 40k
@@Screamingtilltheend But they're all the same models as normal 40k. Though, having better diversity in one small squad IS nice. And nothing really stops you from personalizing your normal rank an file troops, especially if they're Elites anyway. (trueborn for drukhari for example, even if a troop choice). Other than that I'm not sure what you mean. I apologize if I'm misunderstanding.
Some fluffy Killteams would have been fun. And they would be a good starting point for people who don't actually like min maxing their own Killteam I guess. Or if they are overwhelmed by the options at first. Gaunt's Ghosts do indeed seem to be a great starting point for that. Kinda like the Underworld's Warbands I guess. Also adds a collector's aspect. Me? I would love new inquisitorial models, like deathcult assassin's, templars and a multipose Inquisitor of course, with weapons of my choice/my own story behind him. Love the new Witchhunter models for AoS, might just kitbash one for 40k/Killteam.
First to pre-order within 0.10 seconds gets an actual copy! Remember - they said it themselves: “not limited” which means - BETTER GET THEM QUICK!! FOMO for real!
If Gaunt’s Ghosts get Kill Team rules (which I hope) and all the new models they are showing this week do too (via White Dwarf probably) then it’s not dead, there just isn’t a ton of new stuff especially for KT maybe
@@patrickgebetsroither2969 honestly, with Datasheets for KT in White Dwarf and an yearly annual, Imwould be fine, mostly. Tweaking Out some balancing problems which could be done via adjusted Datasheets and faction Special Rules and I'd be very happy.
Honestly is the best game GW make - like I love 30k and AT for the setting (and their solid rules) but Aeronautica has the best system and is super fun
Does anyone remember how popular Blood Bowl was during the dark times when there was virtually no support for Specialist Games for years on end, I think if there's enough people who are passionate enough a game system will survive regardless of official support.
I miss it, honestly. Much preferred having a stable ruleset in a single PDF over feeling obligated to keep up with quarterly releases constantly changing the game and spreading the rules over dozens of supplements.
I was going to post how strong Blood bowl was as a Dead game. Agree about Mordheim, though some moved to Frostgrave. War master (and 10mm gaming overall) really reinvigorated by advocates and quality 3D printed sculpt.
@@IsenMike Yep. If I run a league again it will be with CRP rules. I jumped off the GW merry-go-round when they killed off half-finished BB2016. Never again.
I wish they left 40k alone so I can play it in peace, sick of buying books, cards and the rest! Kill Team players should embrace the slow down so you can play in peace and keep your money. ‘Updates’ are nothing more than money grabs, it’s why I like 30k so much, I’ve have the same book for years!
Honestly I kinda feel this. I'm hoping 9th edition lasts at least three to four years once every codex is out with new releases that are refreshes to ranges that already exist, like Eldar, or entirely new codices and model ranges, like Dark Mechanicum, cough cough.
@@leadpaintchips9461 Especially when it didn't take a rocket science to realize how broken, sometimes pointless and arguably stupid a lot of the rules, tweaks, etc were with the Elites and Commanders KT stuff where it's like there's no really good reason to add this much bloat or overcomplication to Kill Team(other than pushing more pricier HQ and elite units) and when all is said and done in purchasing, you could almost spend as much as you would building your way to a regular 40k Combat Patrol list. That was the case with the few local shops I played the revived 2018 Kill Team at where either people just got so bored of those who constantly defaulted to Grey Knight, plasma Guard spam, and Death Guard nonsense or it got to a point where people said, fuck it, let's play combat patrol/low point 40k games
Games never dies. Me and my friends play a lot of games at our local club. Some of them are "dead": we play Mordheim and Warmaster and both were killed by GW ten years ago. Yet we play it, we have taught new players, who now have fun with us and have renewed the group. We also do one interregional tournament per year. The fun never dies. Greetings from Italy and thanks a lot for your videos!! 🤗
Well, tabletop games never die. So long as someone has a copy of the rules, and the players can source minis/terrain/etc that can work with it, they can be played. Video games are a bit harder in this regard. Most games are built with particular hardware and software in mind. Whether this is consoles, or particular operating systems and even motherboards/chips. Many video games are rendered unplayable - or at least radically different - by changes in technology. For some it's harder than others (to name one example, Cryostasis was designed to use a particular graphics chip to render its realistic water effects; even at the time, some machines couldn't run it with the graphics effects it was made for, because they didn't have that chip). Typically, video games need dedicated people to preserve them, fixing bugs and updating code to make them usable on later machines. And then there are the modern thorn in the side of games preservation, the games that rely on a central server to function at all. Not just to connect to other people, but to run in the first place (because a bunch of vital code is stored on the server, and not on the "client" side). If the developer decides to shut the server down, the game is dead unless they either release the source code, or some super dedicated fans devote large amounts of time and energy to recreate the missing pieces of the game on their own. For most such games, it's over. You can't play them, period.
I think the answer to this is that Games workshop was posting job listings specifically to add designers to the KT team, so definitely not dead. Maybe we won't see anything for a while, and they've said that kill team as it stands works and doesn't need to be updated, and I certainly think that's the case until the new codexes are all out.
I agree. Considering that they're hiring Kill Team designers NOW, I suspect that they are currently gearing up to begin a new phase of Kill Team, which will be kicked off with a new edition. But since they are ONLY hiring now, I'd expect a year of design and development, followed by a year of production, before we see the new edition. Assuming those two years can overlap *some*, I'd start looking for the new edition for Christmas 2022. The current edition, with all its flaws (weak campaign system, clunky and confusing flesh-wound mechanic), will work until then.
I think Kill team is the perfect excuse for buying a single box of soldiers just because you would like to paint and have a few of them, not to assemble an army, but just to have a kill team.
I used to play WarmaHordes, got out for a while, and now I’m looking to get into another mini game - kill team is the perfect size to ease into something imo.
Absolutely one of the best things about it because I have no interest in 40k anymore. Not only does it give me a use for some of my models, and bits. It means I can still add a box of cool models to my collection and use them for more than shelf decoration.
Games can 'die' competitively. Tournaments cease. People move on to the next challenge. Narrative driven games don't die as easily IMO. Mordheim/Gorkamorka being greatest examples (from GW anyway). Such a passionate online presence, even after Warcry/Speedfreaks were released, it did not slow passionate players from continuing their campaigns.
I'm not sure if a "boardgame" (let's call kill team that) can ever die - no one is stopping the community (see One Page Rules) from creating their own codices.
@@yaron73 me and my friends we still play Mordheim. We have a large group. Is still fun, and if GW doesn't support it anymore what does it matter? We can very well do it ourselves. 😉
I started playing kill team as my introduction to Warhammer. I got 2 of my friends into the hobby by playing that game with them. I find it mega funny to see a video asking if kill team is dead when I am literally on my way to my friends place to paint some minis and play some rounds of kill team. Nice video.
I think kill team doesnt need new big boxes. But they should release "warzone operation" manuals that have narrative missions and operations for the 40k war fronts in the plot and maybe offer a bundle pack like a box of cadians + genestealer cultists + op book. Or release killteam exclusive hero models or teams. Or to make cheaper, regimental or squad based conversion bits for the narrative characters or squads featured.
This is a great video. One of the problems me and my friends have with the constant updates to games/army books is that we lose track of the rules, if someone doesn't update there's a learning curve or someone has to be left out of the session because they have a book that simply won't work with the new rulesets (such as the 6-7th ed 40k Codex's to 8th). I imagine many casual gamers in the 30's + brackets have a similar issue where one guy upgrades, wants a few new models, brings his book and army to a game session arranged and it won't work with what 2 or 3 of what the other guys have and you just have to make it work somehow or that person is forced to gamemaster the session instead of play. We are guys with jobs, families, and other interests so we are at a disadvantage in that respect. It also slows down the games when people remember old rules that no longer exist and then there's a ton of book flipping to confirm the rule has changed or no longer exists. In short modem GW doesn't really suit the casual gamers of my generation who love the models, products but don't have the time to keep up with every edition, every chapter approved or generals handbook and while we could say lets stick to 4th edition 40k, there's always someone who will drop into a GW store, see a new model and will buy the new book to go with it not thinking its game breaking to use it with their friends because the assumption is made is "its just 40k". We make sessions work as best we can, but the era of 3rd to 5th edition 40k was the easiest to manage and keep up with. The constant releasing (the video game approach) is not something that suits a lot of people for various reasons. Anyhow I hope this gives you another perspective on "dead games" and the constant releasing and releasing of products. - Rage
I thought Mordheim was "dead" too because its so old,, but man was I wrong, it stil has a huge following. I think Kill team looks fun though, I've never really played 40k.. but I also would love to try , Warcry and Bloodbowl.
@@____________838 I'd be a little split there. On the one hand ,getting a revision or just something new is always fun. On the other hand, with the enormouse following the game still has after 20 odd years, would it be necessary and would players even want the revision. An old saying; "if it ain't broke ,don't fix it" :)
Are you kidding? After 20 years of no minis, I bought the kill team box ... and have since spent $4000-$5000 on GW stuff :) Kill team was the easy way to get back in.
Thank you!!! I've played 40 K since Rogue Trader. Kill Team is a great stand alone entry level game, what we used to call "lunch box 40k". They finally got it right. This is game will last as long as people play it. Great video. Thank you, sir
I am part of a few groups who still play games such as Battlefleet Gothic and Epic Armegeddon and I personally love playing older games because I don't have to worry about buying new books over and over.
I'm with you on this. The format and structure of Kill Team is such that, barring any actual rule changes, it doesn't need "support". It just needs the book to be available. When there are no KT-specific kits, what would "support" even look like? It's pretty much a done-deal between editions, and I'm expecting a new one to be at least announced this year.
Kill Team started off as simplified rules for 40k, and it used to be in the Core 40k rulebook. It was an easy way to get a few models and try different armies out, plus it really encouraged you to convert special characters to add a theme to your kill team.
I don’t hope that Kill Team is dead. As I like it very much. My wish is to have all books and Stratagem in just one. If it is dead , I will still play it with the basic manual and Elite.
Youre are REALLY my hero, thank you for remind me to calm a bit down, makes me feel really better. Its so true, that how it goes back in the day and im a bit upset about myself, that i have overssen it, how "greedy" i have become. A big thank you from Austria!!!!
I play Mordheim, a dead game, with my friend, pretty much every weekend (we’re both vaccinated). We’ve done it for the past few years. Great video Uncle!
No, it’s not dead. They just started hiring and there are production issues indicated by Cursed City, so not surprised nothing was announced yet. Of course, I am still disappointed, but not surprised.
I stumbled on Warhammer 40k videos in a desperate search for background noise while I worked from home during covid. And as such, also stumbled on Killteam and your channel. I was kinda wishy-washy on whether or not it was worth my time to actually get into but after spending some time watching your channel, I absolutely love your take and attitude and approach to the hobby, and its been the push I needed to jump into it. I'll be hitting up my local shop this week to build my first Killteam army. Largely, because you made it make so much sense and your enthusiasm for the hobby is infectious. Just so you know, you can count another person getting into the hobby because of your input and passion. Thank you!
Games Workshop just hired 2 full time positions for Kill Team, we just got Pariah Nexus and 3 Kill Zone reissues, plus Kill Zone book. Not dead at all. Main thing we need right now is updated data sheets and points for the other factions to bring them up to Pariah Nexus.
Honestly, if they wanted to slow down how often they update everything, or add new releases, I'd be fine. I don't have FOMO as much much as I end up feeling like I'm just being left in the dust. I'd like a bit of time to get used to a game/army. For example, I bought into Lumineth when they first dropped, only to have practically a new army and battletome land for them a few months later. It was legitimately frustrating.
Yeah, I was looking into maybe trying out 40k until I realized how much money it’d cost to start up from scratch-not just model prices but also because I just have no paints or brushes or any hobby stuff in general-but what got me was when I noticed just how frequently they released codex update books, like immediately after the core book. I was like “boy it seems like the poor players who want to play the AoS big hat elfs are doomed to eternally have new books to buy forever.”Because they release a new unit that’s not in the core army book-even though it was announced a week after the book dropped but probably could’ve had its stats in the army book and then sell the kit later. So yeah from an outsiders perspective I see what you mean that everything is in a constant flux, and i bet it just gets exhausting. Or maybe I have no clue what I’m talking about.
@@okonkwojones As long as you don't think you have to have every single army. And don't try to buy an entire massive army/collection right away, Its not as bad as it seems. Just buy a brush, a couple paints, & a box or 2 of models, by the time you're done those it wont feel so costly to buy the next set of paints/models. Before you know it you have a playable army and a nice collection of hobby supplies. Once you have your armies book/s at most you'll have to buy a book or two each year and that's only for competitive/campaigns settings, which aren't a must in reality as most rules changes can be found online free. I was fearful of the costs in the beginning and its really not as bad as it seems, similar to any hobby tbh. Join the community you wont regret it and if you do the secondary market is stable you can get most of your investment if you decide its not working out.
@@okonkwojones Similar to what pentatonic said, the buy in does not have to be big, especially if you have a friend who wants to get into the game with you. And, if 40k gets to be too much, there's always kill-team or Warcry. As Uncle Atom has said, just because the company no longer updates the game doesn't mean you can't play it. Loads of guys out there are playing old Fantasy Battles.
Absolutely hit the nail on the head. Nothing has been made for the orginal Hero Quest in over 20 years, if you have people willing to play it with you, you can. " Board " games never die!
But these are the key words "... if you have people willing to play it with you..." That's why whether a game is 'dead' or not is a concern for folks who don't have at least one opponent willing to play something that's not supported, mainstream or maybe even a genre/system they don't especially like.
I still play kill team with friends who don't have full 40k armies but still like the universe and just don't have the time for the hobby. It is a great excuse for me to pick up a few models for a faction I want to dip into.
Also, let’s not forget community made fixes+expansions! I feel like the 40k community has forgotten the dark times of 6th-7th, when GW straight up said they didn’t care about the rules. During this time the competitive scene was wholly community driven with ITC rule patches, and clarifications. Likewise when I started Kill Teams it didn’t have any official support, we played the Heralds of Ruin rules, and those are still being kept up to date with nearly monthly updates to this day.
I started 40K back in 2nd Ed. and the new releases actually felt like a big event. Now it just feels like an endless conveyor belt. It's so OTT that now I'm genuinely just like 'meh'.
Blood Bowl. An example of a game that GW stopped selling more then once but still lives on. And one of the few where the rules have not changed very much either
Dead to me is the ability to find people to play with. People who don't have a core group will often head to the shop and play what people there are playing, and people at the shop will always trend towards the new hotness. It's not dead if you have a local scene, but new releases definitely fuel the possibility of there being that scene if you're jumping in basically solo.
Can't agree all that much this time. Yea, you can find some people playing old version of games or games with little support but they are few and far inbetween. The exception being 9th edition of Fantasy Battle but the community is actually supporting this game themselves, so it's not exactly the same. I live in a big city and there probably are some people playing 3-7th edition of Warhammer. But I bet a lot of people have trouble finding a normal, up to date game partner, much less some obscure old versions of the game.
We play Blood Bowl 6.0 and Retromunda in my group of friends. We've got everything we need and no need to throw it all away each time there is a new release. The new minifigures become new additions to our games, sometimes new rules too.
As someone who has played since Rogue Trader, the GW release schedule over the past few years still seems ridiculously fast to me. Also I agree with the comparison to modern video games, people have got used to DLC and "new" editions annually, tabletop games are not and have never (thankfully) been about that.
So based on recent hiring posts on gw's website. The posted some positions for their kill team R&D. So we are probably going to be getting a new version of kill team in about another year
Honestly it's not that we can't keep playing, but after how they've been treating customers, particularly with Cursed City, it's just hard to trust them.
You can play KT with the Core Book and the now-old monopose ork/AM/CC models that are sold for like $5/box. Sure, the minis may not represent the weapons you select for them, but still, you can have WH40K minis for cheap and roll with them. :)
This makes me think of necrominda where for years people were using living rules to play even though I'd not seen anything from GW. I see the boxed games more as side games they come out and those who want can just play and continue but they are also games that likely won't be supported for long term. It's not always a bad thing
I've introduced several people to the game of KillTeam and subsequently to the hobby over the past few years. After painting one team for KillTeam, I bought and painted a second one, then a 3rd, and then a fourth. They were each a wonderful mini-break from the slog of painting loads of Orks for 40K. Half of those friends got into the hobby, some in KillTeam and some in 40K. At least one has started into Warcry and anothet into AoS. If it weren't for this pandemic, this would have created my own physical gaming group and continued to add more. Currently, it's a virtual group with a lot of emphasis on learning to paint the models and also the collecting, building, and kitbashing of terrain. Even a couple of those friends who didn't get into the hobby are reading the books from Black Library and playing the video games. Once the pandemic risk has lessened, I'm sure they would still meet for a night of several games of KillTeam with my models. For this alone, I love the game of KillTeam. I'll probably always play the game when I'm not battling out with my Orks in 40k. It might even be about time to paint up another team, but now I've got a box full of Warhammer Quest: Cursed City models to paint and another boxed game to play.
What you're describing is stability. A game doesn't need a monthly update to be alive, in fact I'm not a fan of constant rapid change. Release a good product and people will enjoy it. Sure expand and develop the line over time, but those things should be pleasant surprises and feel more natural. Well at least that's what I'd like.
Not having a starter set available, and info on what you actually need to get started with Kill Team is a huge bar for someone who wants to get into it. And lack of new players is what makes games/hobbies feel like they're dying. I would love to just buy the starter set and get going, but I have to chase down minis, terrain, tokens, and rules separately, and that's a big task. I'm gonna do it because I'm a huge nerd, but I don't know a lot of people who are willing to go to such lengths.
I love the attitude and the patience. I will say, though, that it stinks that Pariah Nexus added a big (and uneven) balance change to Astartes. As an illustrative example, Astartes Flamers are 12". But just Astartes Flamers. This is either an unnecessary buff, or an oversight. So while I can wait for a new (and probably unnecessary Core book) I would like to see points costs and statline updates sooner rather than later. That's my 2¢
While I appreciate GW doesn’t make as much money on the Kill Team rule books as models, I just want them to put out full rules for all the factions that don’t have sub-factions/elites/commanders so Kill Team 1.0 could be complete or drop in a KT 2.0 with all the rules (or however many additional books that takes).
Well remember there's still Saturday, personally I'm hoping for both AOS and Kill Team, but I'm expecting kill team exclusive figures. Hear me out, Gaunts Ghosts could be a start. If they start moving more to focusing on Black Library characters for kill team. New models and new updates would be automatic sellers to the readers.
I wish Kill Team had the same model support as warcry, necromunda or underworlds. I'd love to see obscure xenos races, chaos cults and more of the weird obscure stuff.
The point of Kill Team is that it doesn’t require model support. It uses the currently available 40k models. It’s a different market segment than Warcry and Necromunda. Thanks for watching.
Let me say that it could be even better if gw doesn't make a new version of a game. BB is just the best example. At 50 years old I prefer ti fix odd rules and add few more I like
Blood Bowl is one where I cringe with horror when GW wants to change anything. I feel we got the lightest touch and best of deals with their 2020 update and that they showed unusual restraint, but I was worried they would ruin it.
I never got involved in Kill Team. I have been an avid fan of Space Hulk for decades, however. It’s what introduced me to the 40K world and started me down a very long Tyranid path. Hoping for updates all the time!
I used to be okay with the slow release and just figured things needed time to work on. Then the old world died. Now if an army or game hasn’t been touched in a few years I just assume they are getting the axe.
I think the biggest issue around why games "die" is that, when your main player base is focused around a game store rather than a group of friends or a local club, it gets very hard to find opponents for anything but the "mainstream" games. WH40k & AoS are the universals (and increasingly Star Wars Legion), but even for a well supported second tier GW game like Kill Team, I managed to get in a total of 3 games in total against anybody other than my girlfriend. There just weren't that many players willing to commit to buying into the more niche games, and so it becomes self-reinforcing - nobody buys into Necromunda because nobody else buys into Necromunda. One has to go out of one's way to find a community for something other than the main games - We're just lucky here in Cape Town that there is a shop that specifically caters for the more experimental among us, and stocks Malifaux, Infinity, the Batman Game, etc, but it still means that the entire city is served by that one location, so yeah. Anyway.
I'm still playing X-Wing first edition as well. I still play the old Mage Knight Rebellion skirmish game too. They still work and need no updates to play. Having forty five plus minis, I will be playing for a long time. Well until I get arthritis or carpal tunnel. Great point Atom.
I want to share a datapoint of one (myself). I used to play a bunch of 40k, but have been out of it in any serious way since 4th edition. I've bought the new editions main box set, but that's about it. When Kill Team came out, I bought the new box, but it also got me to buy a LOT of new models. I also have my eye on other models that I would never buy otherwise (customs kill team as an example). I wonder how many other people there are like me where kill team or other "side games" like kill team keep GW getting a steady stream of money flowing from me? I love when games let me re-use models I have, but the reality is I also wind up buying lots of new models. Basically the ability to use old models helps me justify buying in, and then I just buy new stuff because well I'm human ;)
I've got back in to wargames through rpgs. I have plenty of fully functional rpg books on my shelf that can be brought out every few years and still play exactly as well as they ever did.
Entirely agree. Even Shadow War Armageddon (which is basically 2nd edition with current edition models) isn't dead. They don't need to update it because it's already freaking perfect. :) Hell. People still love and play Mordheim and Inqisitor.
My friend and I love kill team! We did try 40k first... And it's just not our cup of tea. The learning curve for newcomers is steep, the ruleset is humongous, an average game is too long and the cost of the hobby is simply unreasonable. You have to cut corners if you want to get your army done in reasonable time, which makes painting more like a chore than a fun and relaxing hobby. Lastly, GW business model that makes you buy those new models and books by constantly shifting the balance, over and over again is not something we wanted to support. We love that kill team is static! We can play and learn the game on our pace without worrying that a new update would drop and flip everything upside down.
On the model side, the did do Kill Team : Rogue Trader which had a bunch of minis. Would love to see them doing a self contained story game like that, maybe with Inquisitors....
My friends and I still play Mordheim, and it’s been “dead” for over 15 years! Just like you said, we look to change some rules if we don’t like them and we just play!
I think what they should do is treat it a bit like underworlds and release dedicated kill team squads with unique models - people would pay all the money for a unique squad of guard or marines or genestealer cults.
I would be more sour about the lack of stuff for Warcry at Warhammer Fest if it weren't for the free support to play the new elves, the monthly releases of campaigns to play and as you said, the amount of stuff it got in the last year. My main game is far from forgotten. As for the surprise on Saturday I would be overjoyed to see a return to an old favourite: GORKAMORKA!
I don't own any miniatures myself but if I were to start painting, I would buy something small that's cool to look at, easy to play and is relatively fast to play. Kill Team or Necromunda would surely come in handy in this situation for me.
Hey, love the channel 🙂 technical audio question. Are you using a audio gate? I’m listening with studio head phones and can hear when your threshold is cutting your audio to 0DB - maybe you’re editing manually. Total get it with cars going past making noise 🙂 have you tried adding a second audio track of quiet room noise (without the cars of course) to help make it less obvious when the audio goes to 0DB - maybe fade in and down where you make the cuts and where the gate is happening. If you wanna chat I’m happy to help. Just a friendly broadcast operator helping out 🙂
The GW game I've played the most is Confrontation, that got such a small amount of support that the rules were only ever printed in White Dwarf back in the very early 90s. It just so happened that a bunch of us found the rules and started playing it, using the necromunder models etc. Games don't need support, they need players...
I agree - if you and a mate still have a 3rd edition codex and rules, you can play, so it isn’t “dead”. There is a frustration that the rules for the newer models aren’t updated and actually there are some glaring difficulties with the rules that need sorting. Compared to Warcry - the data sheets are added regularly via White Dwarf etc. So it feels more looked after. The rules are less difficult than AoS instead of more (kill team is definitely not an “easy” version of 40K and could be much slicker). I did note that GW put out a job advert for a Kill Team lead role, and my personal hope is that maybe next WH fest (2022) they will release a new Killteam more akin to Warcry’s simplicity (no injury rolls or tonnes of to hit modifiers)... that’s my 10 cents anyway!
One merely needs to go to the forum Yaktribe to find 'dead' games still being played, from Mordheim and Gorkamorka, to a community edition of Necromunda that survived the fall of Specialist Games. Great thing about miniatures, the graphics stay the same and don't really get dated (though models may improve the your own skill level....). I don't mind Killteam only existing as self contained books. I can pick up models off my shelf and play two factions easier with it and get my kids into 40k that way.
I played Kill Team but I made a point of NOT using GW models. Their are far better models out there for less money. It also undercuts GW which is always the best course of action. Just make sure you buy your models from local game stores. THAT is what really matters.
Hahaha I just got back from a session of original rogue trader and saw this video! Games never die, if people want to play then good on them. GW are doing really well at the moment - peace and love
“Does it matter” is the true question that needs to be answered when it comes to a game being “dead” or not. Sometimes hardcore gamers use the term “dead” to describe any game they don’t like. That causes deliberate confusion about the question. A game can only be truly considered dead (IMHO) if both of these conditions apply: 1. The developer isn’t working on it anymore, and 2. No one plays it. Kill Team had a new box set come out recently, and considering its sales and scarcity, I’d say people still play it. No one can force anyone to like Kill Team. If you don’t like it, don’t play it. No need to shame existing fans for playing something that doesn’t directly appeal to you. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Kill team is fine with just the core book! They just released pariah nexus, I purchased the book, board, card and terrain off eBay just for the scenarios! Like you said, 40K models go hand in hand. I started kill team to dip into different factions. I play imperial guard, and Space Marines in 40K. In kill team I built a 100 point Tau and 100 point Night Lords Teams. This allowed me to do something new without going overboard on an army with little cost! Also I travel a lot, kill team is portable. Find local hobby shops before hand for off time. And if I found an Epic group I probably would try to build an Epic Army!!!
In regards to the dead games and adjust the rules if you want to: when the nurgle blessing broke out last year I lost ability to play my 2016 edition of SpaceHulk with friends, so I dug up on the internet the original Deathwing manual from way back way and played a singleplayer. Also when that was getting boring a bit added few other nids into the game.
I think they should do Kill Team 2.0 when most (if not all) of the codices have been updated to 9th. Then they should go back to one condensed, stripped down rulebook with all the stats. Limit the unit choices (looking at you marines!) to some troops and a couple of elites at most and incorporate competitive rules. Make it a gateway game as well as a easy to get into competitive game.
I think the entire premise of "boxed games" should be that they are basically self-contained games that don't need any updates. Kill team is great for that, with all the stats and stuff. The flip side though, is that you need to have new stuff to keep attention on that product. You also need to justify the space you take up on a shelf in the FLGS, if they have limited space and the newest & bestest takes up that space and turns, then Kill Team gets bumped. They do need a Underworlds style team thing for Kill Team I think. Warcry style boxes could work, but I think a hero team would be more of a draw myself than a squad of generics.
Honestly with less releases than the insanity of Warhammer 40k's meta shifting every time we get a new codex, I think Kill Team is a much more relaxed gaming environment. Theres less of a worry about playing the most viable team or having your faction completely thrown into disarray with rules/points changes
I would love an Inquisitor 28 with a campaign system like Stargrave/Five Parsecs From Home. The campaign for Kill Team is lackluster at best. With new models of course.
You went over this it and I think I agree, the whole game-is-dead-so-I-guess-I-won't-play-anymore, seems to be a thing that gained traction after video games got big. To my mind, a tabletop game being "dead" makes absolutely no sense. I still play Epic from time to time when I get the itch.
I stopped getting into all the new editions of 40k and Age of Sigmar. I spend more time getting into a new edition than actually playing it in the end. Instead I'll start a narrative campaign with a rebel grrrl-gang vs. Imperial Guard vs. Chaos Renegades vs. Genestealer Cultists vs. Salamanders using the community edition Necromunda Rules with some Kill-Team influence for the vehicles with my roomies. I'm so excited!
As a store owner, the Kill Team Core book is the single strongest tool I have to get new players into Warhammer overall.
i understand that. For 100 bugs, you can start play a miniture game, have youre rules, minitures and maybe paint.
How many games as big as this are can say that, meaning it as start to play 40k
Always satisfying to hear!
@@christianvandenboorn6001 Killteam is how I got into 40k aswell. Cheaper, better character models (more personality) and games dont take as long.
Imo its the perfect way to try out 40k
@@Screamingtilltheend But they're all the same models as normal 40k. Though, having better diversity in one small squad IS nice. And nothing really stops you from personalizing your normal rank an file troops, especially if they're Elites anyway. (trueborn for drukhari for example, even if a troop choice).
Other than that I'm not sure what you mean. I apologize if I'm misunderstanding.
@@rain6353 Of the fact that you only need one box of minitures to build and paint. So you can realy go out to make something out of it.
These new Gaunt's Ghosts scream KILLTEAM to me.
Really hope they Release them as a package and not as Single character Models, cost then may be prohibitive.
Some fluffy Killteams would have been fun. And they would be a good starting point for people who don't actually like min maxing their own Killteam I guess. Or if they are overwhelmed by the options at first. Gaunt's Ghosts do indeed seem to be a great starting point for that. Kinda like the Underworld's Warbands I guess. Also adds a collector's aspect.
Me? I would love new inquisitorial models, like deathcult assassin's, templars and a multipose Inquisitor of course, with weapons of my choice/my own story behind him. Love the new Witchhunter models for AoS, might just kitbash one for 40k/Killteam.
First to pre-order within 0.10 seconds gets an actual copy! Remember - they said it themselves: “not limited” which means - BETTER GET THEM QUICK!! FOMO for real!
If Gaunt’s Ghosts get Kill Team rules (which I hope) and all the new models they are showing this week do too (via White Dwarf probably) then it’s not dead, there just isn’t a ton of new stuff especially for KT maybe
@@patrickgebetsroither2969 honestly, with Datasheets for KT in White Dwarf and an yearly annual, Imwould be fine, mostly. Tweaking Out some balancing problems which could be done via adjusted Datasheets and faction Special Rules and I'd be very happy.
I broke at "Aeronauticus Idontplayicus" lol :D
😂😂😂
@@redscope897 yes no one plays it, hence why there's been 2 expansions so far
Honestly is the best game GW make - like I love 30k and AT for the setting (and their solid rules) but Aeronautica has the best system and is super fun
"Aeronauticus Idontplayicus" 0:46
I've heard, adeptus titanicus: the best game nobody plays.
Does anyone remember how popular Blood Bowl was during the dark times when there was virtually no support for Specialist Games for years on end, I think if there's enough people who are passionate enough a game system will survive regardless of official support.
There's a super vibrant online Mordheim community right now that reminds me of how popular blood bowl was.
I miss it, honestly. Much preferred having a stable ruleset in a single PDF over feeling obligated to keep up with quarterly releases constantly changing the game and spreading the rules over dozens of supplements.
I was going to post how strong Blood bowl was as a Dead game. Agree about Mordheim, though some moved to Frostgrave. War master (and 10mm gaming overall) really reinvigorated by advocates and quality 3D printed sculpt.
@@IsenMike Yep. If I run a league again it will be with CRP rules. I jumped off the GW merry-go-round when they killed off half-finished BB2016. Never again.
Yes, and then the new blood bowl game rules have scared away a lot of the old fans
Of all your skills and abilities, the one that allows you to come up with and say things like "Aeronauticus Idontplayicus" is one of the greatest
I just always screw up that fake Latin that GW likes to use. My brain just doesn’t properly process it. Thanks for watching!
I wish they left 40k alone so I can play it in peace, sick of buying books, cards and the rest! Kill Team players should embrace the slow down so you can play in peace and keep your money. ‘Updates’ are nothing more than money grabs, it’s why I like 30k so much, I’ve have the same book for years!
The 'live service' model for any game just mucks with pricing, and doubly so for games that require actual material to be bought during each 'update'.
I agree..thats why i stopped playing 40 altogether. It just a constant stream of updates and bigger and better.
Honestly I kinda feel this. I'm hoping 9th edition lasts at least three to four years once every codex is out with new releases that are refreshes to ranges that already exist, like Eldar, or entirely new codices and model ranges, like Dark Mechanicum, cough cough.
@@leadpaintchips9461 Especially when it didn't take a rocket science to realize how broken, sometimes pointless and arguably stupid a lot of the rules, tweaks, etc were with the Elites and Commanders KT stuff where it's like there's no really good reason to add this much bloat or overcomplication to Kill Team(other than pushing more pricier HQ and elite units) and when all is said and done in purchasing, you could almost spend as much as you would building your way to a regular 40k Combat Patrol list.
That was the case with the few local shops I played the revived 2018 Kill Team at where either people just got so bored of those who constantly defaulted to Grey Knight, plasma Guard spam, and Death Guard nonsense or it got to a point where people said, fuck it, let's play combat patrol/low point 40k games
Check out One Page Rules!!
Games never dies. Me and my friends play a lot of games at our local club. Some of them are "dead": we play Mordheim and Warmaster and both were killed by GW ten years ago. Yet we play it, we have taught new players, who now have fun with us and have renewed the group. We also do one interregional tournament per year. The fun never dies. Greetings from Italy and thanks a lot for your videos!! 🤗
Well, tabletop games never die. So long as someone has a copy of the rules, and the players can source minis/terrain/etc that can work with it, they can be played.
Video games are a bit harder in this regard. Most games are built with particular hardware and software in mind. Whether this is consoles, or particular operating systems and even motherboards/chips. Many video games are rendered unplayable - or at least radically different - by changes in technology. For some it's harder than others (to name one example, Cryostasis was designed to use a particular graphics chip to render its realistic water effects; even at the time, some machines couldn't run it with the graphics effects it was made for, because they didn't have that chip). Typically, video games need dedicated people to preserve them, fixing bugs and updating code to make them usable on later machines.
And then there are the modern thorn in the side of games preservation, the games that rely on a central server to function at all. Not just to connect to other people, but to run in the first place (because a bunch of vital code is stored on the server, and not on the "client" side). If the developer decides to shut the server down, the game is dead unless they either release the source code, or some super dedicated fans devote large amounts of time and energy to recreate the missing pieces of the game on their own. For most such games, it's over. You can't play them, period.
I think the answer to this is that Games workshop was posting job listings specifically to add designers to the KT team, so definitely not dead. Maybe we won't see anything for a while, and they've said that kill team as it stands works and doesn't need to be updated, and I certainly think that's the case until the new codexes are all out.
Conversation over tbh
Came here to say this☝🏻
Yep. This edition of Kill Team might well be dead, but the game as a whole most definitely is not.
Yep, applications closed earlier this week for "Product Designer (Kill Team)", and the role was also to line manage a small team...
I agree. Considering that they're hiring Kill Team designers NOW, I suspect that they are currently gearing up to begin a new phase of Kill Team, which will be kicked off with a new edition. But since they are ONLY hiring now, I'd expect a year of design and development, followed by a year of production, before we see the new edition. Assuming those two years can overlap *some*, I'd start looking for the new edition for Christmas 2022. The current edition, with all its flaws (weak campaign system, clunky and confusing flesh-wound mechanic), will work until then.
I think Kill team is the perfect excuse for buying a single box of soldiers just because you would like to paint and have a few of them, not to assemble an army, but just to have a kill team.
I used to play WarmaHordes, got out for a while, and now I’m looking to get into another mini game - kill team is the perfect size to ease into something imo.
Absolutely one of the best things about it because I have no interest in 40k anymore. Not only does it give me a use for some of my models, and bits. It means I can still add a box of cool models to my collection and use them for more than shelf decoration.
Chess hasn't had an update in centuries, man; it is totally dead!
Games can 'die' competitively.
Tournaments cease.
People move on to the next challenge.
Narrative driven games don't die as easily IMO.
Mordheim/Gorkamorka being greatest examples (from GW anyway).
Such a passionate online presence, even after Warcry/Speedfreaks were released, it did not slow passionate players from continuing their campaigns.
let's not forget that the community around the "dead" Blood Bowl is what led to them bringing it back as a supported game in 2016.
Same thing with Middle Earth in 2018
I'm not sure if a "boardgame" (let's call kill team that) can ever die - no one is stopping the community (see One Page Rules) from creating their own codices.
Yes
There are still people playing Mordheim, it's been a few years now but we had a big group playing a few times a month.
@@yaron73 me and my friends we still play Mordheim. We have a large group. Is still fun, and if GW doesn't support it anymore what does it matter? We can very well do it ourselves. 😉
I agree with Robert.
There's also the new Commanders International and the Kill Team Championships 2021 rules packets.
Just like they did with Cursed City on BoarGameGeek
I started playing kill team as my introduction to Warhammer. I got 2 of my friends into the hobby by playing that game with them.
I find it mega funny to see a video asking if kill team is dead when I am literally on my way to my friends place to paint some minis and play some rounds of kill team.
Nice video.
How weird same here...
Dang yall should meet up and kiss instead of play killteam.....
@@B-AirJordan yeah sex is cool ‘n all, but have you ever sat in the same room as your mate and spent 8 hours building/painting some models together?
I think kill team doesnt need new big boxes. But they should release "warzone operation" manuals that have narrative missions and operations for the 40k war fronts in the plot and maybe offer a bundle pack like a box of cadians + genestealer cultists + op book. Or release killteam exclusive hero models or teams. Or to make cheaper, regimental or squad based conversion bits for the narrative characters or squads featured.
This is a great video. One of the problems me and my friends have with the constant updates to games/army books is that we lose track of the rules, if someone doesn't update there's a learning curve or someone has to be left out of the session because they have a book that simply won't work with the new rulesets (such as the 6-7th ed 40k Codex's to 8th). I imagine many casual gamers in the 30's + brackets have a similar issue where one guy upgrades, wants a few new models, brings his book and army to a game session arranged and it won't work with what 2 or 3 of what the other guys have and you just have to make it work somehow or that person is forced to gamemaster the session instead of play. We are guys with jobs, families, and other interests so we are at a disadvantage in that respect. It also slows down the games when people remember old rules that no longer exist and then there's a ton of book flipping to confirm the rule has changed or no longer exists. In short modem GW doesn't really suit the casual gamers of my generation who love the models, products but don't have the time to keep up with every edition, every chapter approved or generals handbook and while we could say lets stick to 4th edition 40k, there's always someone who will drop into a GW store, see a new model and will buy the new book to go with it not thinking its game breaking to use it with their friends because the assumption is made is "its just 40k". We make sessions work as best we can, but the era of 3rd to 5th edition 40k was the easiest to manage and keep up with. The constant releasing (the video game approach) is not something that suits a lot of people for various reasons. Anyhow I hope this gives you another perspective on "dead games" and the constant releasing and releasing of products. - Rage
I thought Mordheim was "dead" too because its so old,, but man was I wrong, it stil has a huge following. I think Kill team looks fun though, I've never really played 40k.. but I also would love to try , Warcry and Bloodbowl.
Play the blood bowl video game. You can catch it on sale for $3 on steam occasionally. Got me into the actual tabletop
Mordheim will never die, its a great game still
@@NicodemousBain absolutly. We were a small group that played weekly, with our own buildings, but thats over 16years ago. Glad to see the passion 😎
How would you feel if Mordheim was revived?
@@____________838 I'd be a little split there. On the one hand ,getting a revision or just something new is always fun. On the other hand, with the enormouse following the game still has after 20 odd years, would it be necessary and would players even want the revision. An old saying; "if it ain't broke ,don't fix it" :)
Are you kidding? After 20 years of no minis, I bought the kill team box ... and have since spent $4000-$5000 on GW stuff :) Kill team was the easy way to get back in.
Thank you!!! I've played 40 K since Rogue Trader. Kill Team is a great stand alone entry level game, what we used to call "lunch box 40k". They finally got it right. This is game will last as long as people play it. Great video. Thank you, sir
I am part of a few groups who still play games such as Battlefleet Gothic and Epic Armegeddon and I personally love playing older games because I don't have to worry about buying new books over and over.
I'm with you on this. The format and structure of Kill Team is such that, barring any actual rule changes, it doesn't need "support". It just needs the book to be available. When there are no KT-specific kits, what would "support" even look like? It's pretty much a done-deal between editions, and I'm expecting a new one to be at least announced this year.
My friends and i decided to try 1st edition D&D and thats what we prefer to play now over any other edition.
Kill Team started off as simplified rules for 40k, and it used to be in the Core 40k rulebook. It was an easy way to get a few models and try different armies out, plus it really encouraged you to convert special characters to add a theme to your kill team.
I don’t hope that Kill Team is dead. As I like it very much. My wish is to have all books and Stratagem in just one.
If it is dead , I will still play it with the basic manual and Elite.
Youre are REALLY my hero,
thank you for remind me to calm a bit down, makes me feel really better.
Its so true, that how it goes back in the day and im a bit upset about myself, that i have overssen it, how "greedy" i have become.
A big thank you from Austria!!!!
I haven't had an update in years, am I dead? 😳
Are you a game? Then yes.
RIP Ben. You had a good run!
Yes! I am feasting on your soul.
Idunno about you, but my servers have had alot of issues with down time and lag.
I play Mordheim, a dead game, with my friend, pretty much every weekend (we’re both vaccinated). We’ve done it for the past few years. Great video Uncle!
No, it’s not dead. They just started hiring and there are production issues indicated by Cursed City, so not surprised nothing was announced yet. Of course, I am still disappointed, but not surprised.
THIS.
The hiring has been very recent, so I expect it won't be teased now.
@@Gumlass1 That's also true though. But there's the excellent community-made packets so I'm not too concerned.
@@PPPointyEars Nice to see you on here! Pointy! Join the Command Point discord someday, would be great to play you!
@@BB-pn2qv have I asked you this before? Are you in the Kill-Teams group on FB?
I stumbled on Warhammer 40k videos in a desperate search for background noise while I worked from home during covid. And as such, also stumbled on Killteam and your channel. I was kinda wishy-washy on whether or not it was worth my time to actually get into but after spending some time watching your channel, I absolutely love your take and attitude and approach to the hobby, and its been the push I needed to jump into it. I'll be hitting up my local shop this week to build my first Killteam army. Largely, because you made it make so much sense and your enthusiasm for the hobby is infectious. Just so you know, you can count another person getting into the hobby because of your input and passion. Thank you!
Games Workshop just hired 2 full time positions for Kill Team, we just got Pariah Nexus and 3 Kill Zone reissues, plus Kill Zone book. Not dead at all. Main thing we need right now is updated data sheets and points for the other factions to bring them up to Pariah Nexus.
Honestly, if they wanted to slow down how often they update everything, or add new releases, I'd be fine. I don't have FOMO as much much as I end up feeling like I'm just being left in the dust. I'd like a bit of time to get used to a game/army.
For example, I bought into Lumineth when they first dropped, only to have practically a new army and battletome land for them a few months later. It was legitimately frustrating.
Yeah, I was looking into maybe trying out 40k until I realized how much money it’d cost to start up from scratch-not just model prices but also because I just have no paints or brushes or any hobby stuff in general-but what got me was when I noticed just how frequently they released codex update books, like immediately after the core book.
I was like “boy it seems like the poor players who want to play the AoS big hat elfs are doomed to eternally have new books to buy forever.”Because they release a new unit that’s not in the core army book-even though it was announced a week after the book dropped but probably could’ve had its stats in the army book and then sell the kit later.
So yeah from an outsiders perspective I see what you mean that everything is in a constant flux, and i bet it just gets exhausting.
Or maybe I have no clue what I’m talking about.
@@okonkwojones As long as you don't think you have to have every single army. And don't try to buy an entire massive army/collection right away, Its not as bad as it seems. Just buy a brush, a couple paints, & a box or 2 of models, by the time you're done those it wont feel so costly to buy the next set of paints/models. Before you know it you have a playable army and a nice collection of hobby supplies. Once you have your armies book/s at most you'll have to buy a book or two each year and that's only for competitive/campaigns settings, which aren't a must in reality as most rules changes can be found online free. I was fearful of the costs in the beginning and its really not as bad as it seems, similar to any hobby tbh. Join the community you wont regret it and if you do the secondary market is stable you can get most of your investment if you decide its not working out.
@@okonkwojones Similar to what pentatonic said, the buy in does not have to be big, especially if you have a friend who wants to get into the game with you. And, if 40k gets to be too much, there's always kill-team or Warcry. As Uncle Atom has said, just because the company no longer updates the game doesn't mean you can't play it. Loads of guys out there are playing old Fantasy Battles.
Absolutely hit the nail on the head. Nothing has been made for the orginal Hero Quest in over 20 years, if you have people willing to play it with you, you can. " Board " games never die!
But these are the key words "... if you have people willing to play it with you..." That's why whether a game is 'dead' or not is a concern for folks who don't have at least one opponent willing to play something that's not supported, mainstream or maybe even a genre/system they don't especially like.
I still play kill team with friends who don't have full 40k armies but still like the universe and just don't have the time for the hobby. It is a great excuse for me to pick up a few models for a faction I want to dip into.
I play Star Fleet Battles from time to time. That game has not been updated since 2009. Games don’t ever really die.
SFB is still going. Amarillo Design is still publishing.
Also, let’s not forget community made fixes+expansions!
I feel like the 40k community has forgotten the dark times of 6th-7th, when GW straight up said they didn’t care about the rules. During this time the competitive scene was wholly community driven with ITC rule patches, and clarifications.
Likewise when I started Kill Teams it didn’t have any official support, we played the Heralds of Ruin rules, and those are still being kept up to date with nearly monthly updates to this day.
"well.....that's also an answer" hahaha. Your quip, Sir... is very sharp, and ultra enjoyable.
I started 40K back in 2nd Ed. and the new releases actually felt like a big event. Now it just feels like an endless conveyor belt. It's so OTT that now I'm genuinely just like 'meh'.
Totally agree with you on this. I started playing KT for fun and I have enjoyed playing it with friends.
Blood Bowl. An example of a game that GW stopped selling more then once but still lives on. And one of the few where the rules have not changed very much either
I'd just like it if they put out an FAQ that covered the Adepta Sororitas Killteam
Now that would be cool.
are Seraphim an option for them now or not? I can't find anything online and I don't want to buy books blind
@@TaliesinBHeidkamp No. Just Battle Sisters, Arco-Flagellants, a singular Repentia, and for Commanders a Canoness or Mistress of Repentia.
@@stevenschnepp576 😭
Umm acts of faith, some real elite option?
Dead to me is the ability to find people to play with. People who don't have a core group will often head to the shop and play what people there are playing, and people at the shop will always trend towards the new hotness.
It's not dead if you have a local scene, but new releases definitely fuel the possibility of there being that scene if you're jumping in basically solo.
Spend the last 6 months painting old 40k orks. Then a month ago a mate and I played our first game of 40k 2nd ed since the mid 90’s. It was a blast.
Can't agree all that much this time. Yea, you can find some people playing old version of games or games with little support but they are few and far inbetween. The exception being 9th edition of Fantasy Battle but the community is actually supporting this game themselves, so it's not exactly the same.
I live in a big city and there probably are some people playing 3-7th edition of Warhammer. But I bet a lot of people have trouble finding a normal, up to date game partner, much less some obscure old versions of the game.
We play Blood Bowl 6.0 and Retromunda in my group of friends. We've got everything we need and no need to throw it all away each time there is a new release. The new minifigures become new additions to our games, sometimes new rules too.
They literally just started interviews for a new person to come into the kill team development team. The application ended Sunday 3rd I believe.
As someone who has played since Rogue Trader, the GW release schedule over the past few years still seems ridiculously fast to me. Also I agree with the comparison to modern video games, people have got used to DLC and "new" editions annually, tabletop games are not and have never (thankfully) been about that.
So based on recent hiring posts on gw's website. The posted some positions for their kill team R&D. So we are probably going to be getting a new version of kill team in about another year
Mordheim has been “dead” for a number of years now, still has a strong, dedicated community.
Yeah but it was hit extra hard when Warhammer Fantasy ended.
"strong"
Honestly it's not that we can't keep playing, but after how they've been treating customers, particularly with Cursed City, it's just hard to trust them.
You can play KT with the Core Book and the now-old monopose ork/AM/CC models that are sold for like $5/box. Sure, the minis may not represent the weapons you select for them, but still, you can have WH40K minis for cheap and roll with them. :)
This makes me think of necrominda where for years people were using living rules to play even though I'd not seen anything from GW. I see the boxed games more as side games they come out and those who want can just play and continue but they are also games that likely won't be supported for long term. It's not always a bad thing
I've introduced several people to the game of KillTeam and subsequently to the hobby over the past few years. After painting one team for KillTeam, I bought and painted a second one, then a 3rd, and then a fourth. They were each a wonderful mini-break from the slog of painting loads of Orks for 40K.
Half of those friends got into the hobby, some in KillTeam and some in 40K. At least one has started into Warcry and anothet into AoS. If it weren't for this pandemic, this would have created my own physical gaming group and continued to add more. Currently, it's a virtual group with a lot of emphasis on learning to paint the models and also the collecting, building, and kitbashing of terrain. Even a couple of those friends who didn't get into the hobby are reading the books from Black Library and playing the video games. Once the pandemic risk has lessened, I'm sure they would still meet for a night of several games of KillTeam with my models.
For this alone, I love the game of KillTeam. I'll probably always play the game when I'm not battling out with my Orks in 40k. It might even be about time to paint up another team, but now I've got a box full of Warhammer Quest: Cursed City models to paint and another boxed game to play.
What you're describing is stability. A game doesn't need a monthly update to be alive, in fact I'm not a fan of constant rapid change. Release a good product and people will enjoy it. Sure expand and develop the line over time, but those things should be pleasant surprises and feel more natural. Well at least that's what I'd like.
Not having a starter set available, and info on what you actually need to get started with Kill Team is a huge bar for someone who wants to get into it. And lack of new players is what makes games/hobbies feel like they're dying.
I would love to just buy the starter set and get going, but I have to chase down minis, terrain, tokens, and rules separately, and that's a big task.
I'm gonna do it because I'm a huge nerd, but I don't know a lot of people who are willing to go to such lengths.
I love the attitude and the patience. I will say, though, that it stinks that Pariah Nexus added a big (and uneven) balance change to Astartes. As an illustrative example, Astartes Flamers are 12". But just Astartes Flamers. This is either an unnecessary buff, or an oversight. So while I can wait for a new (and probably unnecessary Core book) I would like to see points costs and statline updates sooner rather than later.
That's my 2¢
While I appreciate GW doesn’t make as much money on the Kill Team rule books as models, I just want them to put out full rules for all the factions that don’t have sub-factions/elites/commanders so Kill Team 1.0 could be complete or drop in a KT 2.0 with all the rules (or however many additional books that takes).
My speculation is that tomorrow may actually be Old World-related, but we'll see.
I hope not. My wallet can't take that.
*narrator voice*: It wasn't.
Adam Troke mentioned Gaunt's Ghosts for Kill Team during the Black library Twitch session. So Kill Team has been mentioned during Warhammer Fest.
I agree, Broken Realms seems to be the Psychis Awakening dfor AOS, which makes it seem likely that we will have a new edition mid year.
Well remember there's still Saturday, personally I'm hoping for both AOS and Kill Team, but I'm expecting kill team exclusive figures. Hear me out, Gaunts Ghosts could be a start. If they start moving more to focusing on Black Library characters for kill team. New models and new updates would be automatic sellers to the readers.
"Back in the day" - :D Makes me chuckle. I started in 1989 with first edition. Some of my miniatures were sculpted in the mid 80s. ;)
I still regularly play rules released 32 years ago. Yeah I'm an old fart.
I wish Kill Team had the same model support as warcry, necromunda or underworlds. I'd love to see obscure xenos races, chaos cults and more of the weird obscure stuff.
The point of Kill Team is that it doesn’t require model support. It uses the currently available 40k models. It’s a different market segment than Warcry and Necromunda. Thanks for watching.
Let me say that it could be even better if gw doesn't make a new version of a game. BB is just the best example. At 50 years old I prefer ti fix odd rules and add few more I like
Blood Bowl is one where I cringe with horror when GW wants to change anything. I feel we got the lightest touch and best of deals with their 2020 update and that they showed unusual restraint, but I was worried they would ruin it.
@@madscientist916 fully agree with you
I never got involved in Kill Team. I have been an avid fan of Space Hulk for decades, however. It’s what introduced me to the 40K world and started me down a very long Tyranid path. Hoping for updates all the time!
I used to be okay with the slow release and just figured things needed time to work on. Then the old world died. Now if an army or game hasn’t been touched in a few years I just assume they are getting the axe.
I think the biggest issue around why games "die" is that, when your main player base is focused around a game store rather than a group of friends or a local club, it gets very hard to find opponents for anything but the "mainstream" games. WH40k & AoS are the universals (and increasingly Star Wars Legion), but even for a well supported second tier GW game like Kill Team, I managed to get in a total of 3 games in total against anybody other than my girlfriend. There just weren't that many players willing to commit to buying into the more niche games, and so it becomes self-reinforcing - nobody buys into Necromunda because nobody else buys into Necromunda. One has to go out of one's way to find a community for something other than the main games - We're just lucky here in Cape Town that there is a shop that specifically caters for the more experimental among us, and stocks Malifaux, Infinity, the Batman Game, etc, but it still means that the entire city is served by that one location, so yeah. Anyway.
I'm still playing X-Wing first edition as well. I still play the old Mage Knight Rebellion skirmish game too. They still work and need no updates to play. Having forty five plus minis, I will be playing for a long time. Well until I get arthritis or carpal tunnel. Great point Atom.
Agree 100%. My wife and I still play the core Kill Team, we still play 1st edition X-Wing, and we play older versions of other box games.
I want to share a datapoint of one (myself). I used to play a bunch of 40k, but have been out of it in any serious way since 4th edition. I've bought the new editions main box set, but that's about it. When Kill Team came out, I bought the new box, but it also got me to buy a LOT of new models. I also have my eye on other models that I would never buy otherwise (customs kill team as an example). I wonder how many other people there are like me where kill team or other "side games" like kill team keep GW getting a steady stream of money flowing from me? I love when games let me re-use models I have, but the reality is I also wind up buying lots of new models. Basically the ability to use old models helps me justify buying in, and then I just buy new stuff because well I'm human ;)
I've got back in to wargames through rpgs. I have plenty of fully functional rpg books on my shelf that can be brought out every few years and still play exactly as well as they ever did.
Entirely agree. Even Shadow War Armageddon (which is basically 2nd edition with current edition models) isn't dead. They don't need to update it because it's already freaking perfect. :)
Hell. People still love and play Mordheim and Inqisitor.
My friend and I love kill team! We did try 40k first... And it's just not our cup of tea. The learning curve for newcomers is steep, the ruleset is humongous, an average game is too long and the cost of the hobby is simply unreasonable. You have to cut corners if you want to get your army done in reasonable time, which makes painting more like a chore than a fun and relaxing hobby. Lastly, GW business model that makes you buy those new models and books by constantly shifting the balance, over and over again is not something we wanted to support. We love that kill team is static! We can play and learn the game on our pace without worrying that a new update would drop and flip everything upside down.
On the model side, the did do Kill Team : Rogue Trader which had a bunch of minis. Would love to see them doing a self contained story game like that, maybe with Inquisitors....
My friends and I still play Mordheim, and it’s been “dead” for over 15 years! Just like you said, we look to change some rules if we don’t like them and we just play!
A group plays battle tech.. one guy pulled out a map set that was still wrapped from late 90s.....
I think what they should do is treat it a bit like underworlds and release dedicated kill team squads with unique models - people would pay all the money for a unique squad of guard or marines or genestealer cults.
I'm used to historicals there haven't been any new armies for Napoleanics in years.
I would be more sour about the lack of stuff for Warcry at Warhammer Fest if it weren't for the free support to play the new elves, the monthly releases of campaigns to play and as you said, the amount of stuff it got in the last year. My main game is far from forgotten.
As for the surprise on Saturday I would be overjoyed to see a return to an old favourite: GORKAMORKA!
I did not realize that all I needed to play kill team was just that book goddamnit
So, KillTeam will live forever in our hearts and basements with friends. Kinda like that to be honest.
Kill team is popular in Thailand. Sadly with pendamic still going any warhammer shop are not allow to open the table yet.
I don't own any miniatures myself but if I were to start painting, I would buy something small that's cool to look at, easy to play and is relatively fast to play. Kill Team or Necromunda would surely come in handy in this situation for me.
Hey, love the channel 🙂 technical audio question. Are you using a audio gate? I’m listening with studio head phones and can hear when your threshold is cutting your audio to 0DB - maybe you’re editing manually. Total get it with cars going past making noise 🙂 have you tried adding a second audio track of quiet room noise (without the cars of course) to help make it less obvious when the audio goes to 0DB - maybe fade in and down where you make the cuts and where the gate is happening. If you wanna chat I’m happy to help. Just a friendly broadcast operator helping out 🙂
The GW game I've played the most is Confrontation, that got such a small amount of support that the rules were only ever printed in White Dwarf back in the very early 90s. It just so happened that a bunch of us found the rules and started playing it, using the necromunder models etc. Games don't need support, they need players...
I still play some of the same games I played in the '70's
I agree - if you and a mate still have a 3rd edition codex and rules, you can play, so it isn’t “dead”.
There is a frustration that the rules for the newer models aren’t updated and actually there are some glaring difficulties with the rules that need sorting.
Compared to Warcry - the data sheets are added regularly via White Dwarf etc. So it feels more looked after. The rules are less difficult than AoS instead of more (kill team is definitely not an “easy” version of 40K and could be much slicker).
I did note that GW put out a job advert for a Kill Team lead role, and my personal hope is that maybe next WH fest (2022) they will release a new Killteam more akin to Warcry’s simplicity (no injury rolls or tonnes of to hit modifiers)... that’s my 10 cents anyway!
One merely needs to go to the forum Yaktribe to find 'dead' games still being played, from Mordheim and Gorkamorka, to a community edition of Necromunda that survived the fall of Specialist Games. Great thing about miniatures, the graphics stay the same and don't really get dated (though models may improve the your own skill level....). I don't mind Killteam only existing as self contained books. I can pick up models off my shelf and play two factions easier with it and get my kids into 40k that way.
I played Kill Team but I made a point of NOT using GW models. Their are far better models out there for less money. It also undercuts GW which is always the best course of action. Just make sure you buy your models from local game stores. THAT is what really matters.
I and a few friends still play Spacelords, a game that died already in the 90s still fun.
Hahaha I just got back from a session of original rogue trader and saw this video! Games never die, if people want to play then good on them. GW are doing really well at the moment - peace and love
“Does it matter” is the true question that needs to be answered when it comes to a game being “dead” or not. Sometimes hardcore gamers use the term “dead” to describe any game they don’t like. That causes deliberate confusion about the question.
A game can only be truly considered dead (IMHO) if both of these conditions apply:
1. The developer isn’t working on it anymore, and
2. No one plays it.
Kill Team had a new box set come out recently, and considering its sales and scarcity, I’d say people still play it.
No one can force anyone to like Kill Team. If you don’t like it, don’t play it. No need to shame existing fans for playing something that doesn’t directly appeal to you.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Kill team is fine with just the core book! They just released pariah nexus, I purchased the book, board, card and terrain off eBay just for the scenarios! Like you said, 40K models go hand in hand. I started kill team to dip into different factions. I play imperial guard, and Space Marines in 40K. In kill team I built a 100 point Tau and 100 point Night Lords Teams. This allowed me to do something new without going overboard on an army with little cost! Also I travel a lot, kill team is portable. Find local hobby shops before hand for off time.
And if I found an Epic group I probably would try to build an Epic Army!!!
I actually think Saturday will be the official revealing of Warhammer Fantasy Old World/World That Was they teased a while back. Square bases and all.
In regards to the dead games and adjust the rules if you want to: when the nurgle blessing broke out last year I lost ability to play my 2016 edition of SpaceHulk with friends, so I dug up on the internet the original Deathwing manual from way back way and played a singleplayer. Also when that was getting boring a bit added few other nids into the game.
I think they should do Kill Team 2.0 when most (if not all) of the codices have been updated to 9th. Then they should go back to one condensed, stripped down rulebook with all the stats. Limit the unit choices (looking at you marines!) to some troops and a couple of elites at most and incorporate competitive rules. Make it a gateway game as well as a easy to get into competitive game.
I think the entire premise of "boxed games" should be that they are basically self-contained games that don't need any updates. Kill team is great for that, with all the stats and stuff. The flip side though, is that you need to have new stuff to keep attention on that product. You also need to justify the space you take up on a shelf in the FLGS, if they have limited space and the newest & bestest takes up that space and turns, then Kill Team gets bumped.
They do need a Underworlds style team thing for Kill Team I think. Warcry style boxes could work, but I think a hero team would be more of a draw myself than a squad of generics.
Honestly with less releases than the insanity of Warhammer 40k's meta shifting every time we get a new codex, I think Kill Team is a much more relaxed gaming environment. Theres less of a worry about playing the most viable team or having your faction completely thrown into disarray with rules/points changes
I would love an Inquisitor 28 with a campaign system like Stargrave/Five Parsecs From Home. The campaign for Kill Team is lackluster at best. With new models of course.
You went over this it and I think I agree, the whole game-is-dead-so-I-guess-I-won't-play-anymore, seems to be a thing that gained traction after video games got big. To my mind, a tabletop game being "dead" makes absolutely no sense. I still play Epic from time to time when I get the itch.
I stopped getting into all the new editions of 40k and Age of Sigmar. I spend more time getting into a new edition than actually playing it in the end. Instead I'll start a narrative campaign with a rebel grrrl-gang vs. Imperial Guard vs. Chaos Renegades vs. Genestealer Cultists vs. Salamanders using the community edition Necromunda Rules with some Kill-Team influence for the vehicles with my roomies. I'm so excited!