Kill Team Compendium DISAPPOINTMENT
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 авг 2021
- The upcoming Warhammer 40,000 Kill Team Compendium is a boring stopgap until the REAL Kill Team models come out... and we get to pay for it. Also, Games Workshop sent me this book for review, I forgot to mention that in the video.
Vince Venturella and I made a game! Check out Reign in Hell - Demonic Skirmish Combat at www.reigninhellgame.com
I'm now a partner on Twitch! I paint minis every Friday morning and Monday night, and sometimes take paint breaks (play video games poorly). Follow me: / tabletopminions
Official Tabletop Minions t-shirts: bit.ly/merchbunker
Help support the channel on Patreon, and get access to the Discord: / tabletopminions
Twitter: / tabletopminions
Instagram: / tabletopminions 
Игры
So the compendium would actually be half that size, if they cut out the blank spaces where the abilities are......
You know what else is half sized? Hehehe
@@notme24 definitely not the route my dad took to go to the gas station
Ah yes, paying for white space on pages. Maybe the pinnacle of GW greed.
I thought the whole point of Killteam was to build your own ragtag team of unique models. I had a bunch of kitbash ideas, and now I'm wondering if I should even bother.
You and I are in the same boat. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions I made my own Harkonian Drop Troopers for last editions with 15 guys, a commissar, with several special weapons, a medic and command operator and was still gonna get wiped by things like marines.
You can always play the old version, I have a sneaking suspicion I will be. GW keeps doing this and there is only so many times I can start from fresh.
I strongly suspect the "kitbash" idea is the problem.
Long gone are the days when tanks were made from deodorant bottles and terrain from foam and whatever bitz'n'pieces you had at home. Now it's Games Workshop approved models on Games Workshop approved gaming mats filled with Games Workshop approved terrain.
Have 4 Kill Teams/2 Armies lying around that are now useless. Totally get you. But there is always the old one. Won't jump onto the new one till they fix those rules. If they don't, no more money for them. Never feel forced to buy something you don't like.
Appreciate the open and honest review, Uncle Atom. Will happily continue painting my Infinity minis and everything that I just want to paint.
Considering this is just a stopgap until the actual boxes are released, they should have made this a free download, really. As it is, it's driving me a way from this game rather than wanting to give it a shot.
I totally agree on the free download thing. I wish I had mentioned it in the video. Thanks for watching!
I shouldn't say this but.... you can always can get them for free... Some times that's the right, but not legal, way to do things.
Problem is they won't give all the factions the full fleshed out treatment so unfortunately, you will end up with a two tier system.. Fine if your with your mates but be interesting for tournaments.
After the Indexes at WH40K 8th Ed Launch, I was expecting this. I wasn't expecting the very rigid 'You can Play Choice A or Choice B' options though. Have to admit, it has tempered my enthusasim for pre-ordering. I was only going to get the books (and cards and 'essentials' pack) anyway. Since I run TSons, Tau, and Sisters, I suppose I'll wait till something like BattleScribe updates, and take a look and see if I am jumping into the new edition, or if I would have to build new versions of those previous kill teams...
It's literally GW all over though, they've done it for years. I worked for them when the new CEO changeover was happening - they aren't more community focused as they don't listen, and don't do consumer friendly practises.
It feels like the Compendium should have been a free PDF. I kind of get the drip-feed of data for the new kill team; it’s in line with the service-model GW seem to have chosen to follow. I’m ok with drip-feed to keep the hype train going, but a boring stop gap book at $50 (which can become outdated ant month) is a little sad.
The moment I read "Compendium" I knew it was a book doomed to be fully deprecated within a year or so. They could at least have given us some cool, if OP, rules for those models for the few months they would have been official tournament rules.
Sad? Sounds like standard GW BS to me...
Sums it up well
What gets me is GW continuing to resell you the same books multiple times. I really have a hard time getting into the new version of Necromunda because of the *3* times the game rules have been rereleased. It is also prohibitively expensive to play multiple gangs because you have to keep buying material you already have just the get the few new things, and it's prohibitively expensive for campaign arbitrators and event people who are going to be shouldering the rules so that people can just show up and play.
No thanks. I'll just play a different game using GW miniatures (or not) that let me have fun without having to continually repurchase rules because I chose to support the game when it came out.
more like Consoomium
They did that "band-aid rip-off" in Warhammer Fantasy Battles too. It was for 6th edition, if I recall correctly. The temporary book was called Ravening Hordes. It was free. FREE!! Imagine that.
3rd edition 40k was do different from 2nd so they put very basic rules for all the armies in the back of the core rulebook. Many armies never even got a 3rd edition rulebook.
@@rawhide303 but then, in 2nd edition there were only 10 armies (and the differences between Blood Angels, Dark Angels etc was minimal) so you only had about 150 different units to convert.
Same with Ravening Hordes. Earlier editions of the game didn’t have to deal with the constant churn of new units, expanding armies and new factions which all make the game more interesting
It's almost like lowering the barrier of entry makes it easier for existing fans to make the transition.
Heck, they did it again, sort of, with Age of Sigmar. All the unit stats are available for free on the GW site.
Litrally played dozens of battles with just Ravening Hordes, it was an awesome little nugget of goodness that did the job perfectly. How they've un-learned this lesson ill never understand.
You had to buy the white dwarf to get ravening hordes.
Still a much cheaper alternative to buying a $84(Australia) book.
What hype I had for this has gone down the drain.
So, in the first iteration of kill team, My sniper specialist is an eliminator, my Heavy is a Heavy Intercessor, and my Comms specialist is an Infiltrator. It's thematic, and you can tell who is who based in their kit. Fluffy and fun. This? This is a miss for me.
I think I will stick with the old Kill Team, until they change this team building mechanic... IF they do that is.
How sad, marine player is not the favourite anymore
You mean the fifth iteration. Kill team first existed in 4th, and it was all regulated by the community not gw up till 8th. And the 8th one was the best and was way more balanced than all of the community moderated versions from before. Fucking 7th edition version was the most egregiously unbalanced, with non-marines fielding half an army, with vehicles, while marines of any flavor fielded two squads and no vehicles.
@@47slogra this effects everyone, how do you know that eldar can’t only have a ranger kill team, or a dire avenger kill team. Like this is so limiting that this game might be dead on arrival in a good amount of communities.
@@thejestor9378 Yeah, you're right. I just never thought of the other ones as anything more than supplements, rather than their own games. I started playing in 7th, and it took me two years to realize that Kill Team even existed. They weren't exactly pushing it at the time.
@@acheron1872 Thanks for understanding my point and that I wasn't whining about space Marines not getting any love.
I just can't wrap my head around how they clearly understand that we like specialists and the more narrative elements of the game and dedicate so much of the rulebook to the Crusade-esque system, and then rip away the main draw of the game of making your own, super-personalized squad of dudes. GW's model of charging so much for the rules and stats of units you already own is archaic but this just feels downright insulting.
@Bingus McDrangus , for example, you can't run a Kill Team with a couple tactical marines, a sternguard or 2, a Vanguard, a terminator, an Intercessor, etc... you get ONE squad of guys, like an actual 40k squad....not a team hand picked for the mission made up of elite fighters from your army.... same for Necrons, can't have a couple warriors, a couple immortals, a deathmark, and a lychguard,....instead you get 4 immortals, or 4 deathmarks, or a squad of warriors, etc... CSM can't mix and match however many marines and cultists they want , you get X of one, and Y of another,... or 2X of one... but no option for a Berserker any more... Tau can't have a couple fire warriors, a couple pathfinder, a couple drones, and a stealth suit....
Your options are seriously limited now, and to even HAVE those options at all, you have to buy another $50 book on top of the core book, and can basically bet money, that it will be rubbish 6months to a year from now, and if you play a handful of teams, you can count on 3+ MORE books to buy over the coming months....
No thanks.... GW can shove this new game.... I'm out to buy more sets of KT2018 books...and make some house mods and additions to keep it fresh for another 2 decades or so....the community already made enough missions and packs of content to keep me playing it for at least 5-10 years happily....
I think the fact that the embargo for this book was lifted on release day speaks volumes
Yeah, I feel that was intentional too :(
I also liked how GW promised that all the people that will preordered the new Kill Team will actually receive a box...not like that Cursed City debacle...and when you open the book, ta-daaah, just two factions and no customization whatsoever. Nice move, GW, what a great way to dry-humping wallets of your customers. Because selling new "Kill zones" with fewer terrain pieces is not enought for your shareholders.
So here’s me thinking Stargrave became an even more alluring prospect. Thanks for the videos Adam.
Rogue Stars from Osprey is also a great alternative.
Great comment!!!
What's stopping you ??? Get into it asap, don't bother with killteam. And get into frostgrave while you're at it too
Don't forget Grimdark Future: Firefight.
This made Konflict 47 more alluring to me.
Today, there is no reason to sell rules when You already charge that much for models, terrain and more. I repeat myself, but that high level of entry keeps me from getting into some games. And I won't be the only one.
Paying $100 for rules kept me out of 40k for a very long time (and nearly all together). There's no way I'm paying $100 for only thr rules of a scaled down version of 40k. The game play does look fun but somethings gotta give.
@CHOAM Nomsky OK, Base Rules FAQ, Codex FAQs, Supplement FAQs, Warzone FAQs... Yeah, a printed codex becomes a patchwork a Week later with the First FAQs because some Rules or Point costs weren't proofread.
My hypothesis is that GW no longer targets at newcomers but at hobby whales - the 20% that account for 80% of GW revenue. I have seen people whose cars are barely held together but buy GW plastics like skittles. Many people in this hobby spend wayyyy above their means.
Uncle Atom : “You better like vanilla”
Ultramarine players : “my time to shine”
My first completed painting project was a team of 5 marines; a reiver, an intercessor, 2 sternguard, and an infiltrator.
Now that team is, and sounds like it will remain, wildly illegal for this new "edition?" of KillTeam.
Yeah, I won't be getting these books... :(
You can use that team! Just not in matched play. Matched is lame anyway. If you have battlescribe, make a new list and click Roster after selecting your army's faction. It'll let you access all the units in the army at once and make any kind of list you want.
Not being able to mix and match Kill Teams sucks! What were GW thinking? I hope this is something they rectify in a later expansion...
They are thinking about money.
@@andrewmarkowski308 letting people make kill teams out of lots of different boxes would get them more money.
No worries GW is going to rectify it and charge you 50 Dlls for it with with the updated new book😂😂😂😂
@@captainparty
They are going to sell the rules to you piecemeal. It's obvious with the way the Octarius box is structured. So you are spending more money for less freedom of choice when it comes to list building
I still paint my old rules kill team. I have stopped trying to keep up with their releases. I stopped caring after they released the last Chaos codex in 7th wich was what most Chaos players had wanted and then 1 month later it was out of date.
what happened one month later?
@@alabasterscarf612 One month is a bit of an exaggeration. The 7th edition Chaos Marines Codex was released in December 2016, and 8th edition pre-orders opened in April 2017, with the game going live in June 2017, and the 8th edition Chaos Marines Codex being released in August 2017. The 7th edition Chaos Daemon Codex was released in May 2016, so it was good for about a year. And, despite GW's continued assurances that previous edition Codexes are perfectly compatible with new editions of the game, the reality is always somewhat different. Technically, yes, they are compatible. In actual practice, using the last edition's Codex isn't going to help you make a terribly effective army.
@@frocat5163 wasn't there multiple Chaos SM codex books for 8th, when was the last 8th edition one released, and when was 9th announced?
I feel ya that it might be a bit of an exaggeration, but.... I left Big40K because of basically the same BS....they release an edition, by the time all the armies have a codex, some have 2 or 3 supplements and such added onto their codex, and then just months after the last factions get a book the new edition rolls out.... not gonna try to keep up anymore, not with 5 or 6 armies....so I play a mixed bag of 5th/6th/7th, when I do play 40k at home.... and I play Kill Team mostly the last few years... now it seems I will be playing a legacy version of KT for a good while, as I'm sticking to KT2018.... if not leaving GW rule sets behind completely....
I will buy more novels, maybe movies, and maybe video games....MAYBE.....but as far as rule books go, not likely to be buying anything besides additional OLD books 2nd hand.... currently looking to pick up 3 or 4 more sets of KT2018 Core+Elites, and maybe a Pariah book also....
I'm playing Kill Team with a very small group of close friends and we'll be sticking with Core + Elites 125 pts. We find that this is the best way to enjoy the game and I have zero interest in playing a squad that I didn't get to kit out and modify myself. Weird little niche(and often suboptimal) builds is my bread and butter and the ability to make those is what interested me in KT to begin with.
The best part of Kill Team was every faction got updated at the same time. And now it's just like 40k where the meta will be the latest release... sad.
Incredibly disappointed that for each step forward new KT took it also takes one step backward. What I loved about 2018 KT was how you had freedom to choose your team and loadout, mix and match to have heavy hitters, tanks, or mobility within the same faction (if available). Now it’s just…incredibly limiting, and it does not seem like it was made for balancing or to fit the rules better, it only seems it was done to sell more books later. It is not a cheap compendium either. Well, while I already purchased the Octarius box, seems it’s back to Stargrave!
The Octarius box, by itself, is fine. Rules are okay, especially if you enjoy narrative campaigns. And of course, the models are very good. But interesting listbuilding has certainly taken a hit, and that’s something I loved about Kill Team. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions They'll sell that option back to you, further down the line. GW going to GW.
@@tabletopminions something I loved about Kill team too :(
It sounds like one squad fighting one squad. Maybe that's how a disciplined force like Guard or Marines might fight, but Orks or Chaos need to be more ragtag.
Yea, thematically for space marines, a single combat squad going in and getting the job done is accurate. It's just not that much fun to play.
I had a space wolf kill team with eliminator, terminator and Intercessor Sergeant as a leader… And now I can’t… that’s very sad, you know…
I know that feel well. I just finished my fully kitbashed iron hands killteam with both an eliminator and bladeguard sergeant. 3 months well spent .
I enjoy the listbuilding returning to the fluff. Eleminator + Termi + Int Sarge... Well... I appreciate that kind of lists are dead. 😁
I have NUMEROUS rosters of SM chapters.... and feel ya... Space Wolves basically didn't exist, same for most unique chapters, without using the Elites expansion.... but I have multiple rosters made up of a few tactical, a few vets of different sorts, a few have a termie, most have 1-3 primaris, etc... now almost none of my rosters are usable in this new garbage ....errr...game.... same for most my other rosters.... can't use my Necrons, as I built 2 Deathmarks and 2 Immortals,.... can't use my Tau as it was a couple firewarriors, a couple pathfinder, and a stealth suit.... fleshed out my GSC with some purestrain genestealers.... of well over 10 rosters, I think I could field like 3 bland and boring teams now.... sticking to KT2018 personally....and looking to buy a few more sets of those old books...instead of $250 for this new box and compendium, and who knows how many boxes or books in the next year to add to that....
For people who don't buy Octarius and just wanted to get into the game with models and teams they already have this seems like such a bad way to showcase the new system. While I like the models in the new box, its a bit expensive for what it is considering the amount of random stuff i have sitting around from other kill teams. I didn't expect them all to be useable as is (but proxies are always fine) but this really just makes me wonder why I would switch to this version at this point in time. It really feels like GW is asking me to wait until the 2 faction box that I really really want is released, especially if they're all going to be octarius price. Or even longer if they release compendium books a year later, or even bundle rules with the individual killteam faction boxes. Being drip fed rules for other factions and not knowing when/if my faction is going to get a box is pretty frustrating.
then a few weeks after all the 2 faction sets are completed there will be a new edition of kill team lol
I can't help thinking that the GW product planning starts with the question 'So how do we make even more money than last time?'. Only after answering that do they start on the actual content.
It’s cheaper to build kill teams in this. Especially space marine teams.
I got the same feeling from this. GW have always used their rules to drive model sales, but it's never been this blatant.
I'm out.
@@Mikey__R Not defending GW, but I have to state you're kind of wrong. They clearly are focusing on making it as simple as possible to grab a single box and go play a game. You're free to leave by the way, hope you have a good one. I just need to make sure people don't blindly hate and actually understand that is a new system and we as a community will have time to adjust and diversify if we need be.
@@davetorres1893 bruh I’m sure you could do that before too, they didn’t force you to take one of each
@@davetorres1893 I think you're right, this is an entirely new system that just shares its name with the old. I think my brother and I will stick to 2nd ed when we do eventually meet up to play. I've floated the idea of using Stargrave rules with our GW models, but he wasn't too keen.
Anyway, I'm not noisily rage-quitting and burning my models, sorry if I gave that impression. I'll continue to paint GW models as they are gorgeous and I'll keep reading the HH novels as I love the lore. I'm just not going to play the new Kill Team.
I get why they are doing what they're doing with this new edition. I was hoping for something more in between killteam and warcry to be honest. Thank you for the informative video.
Yeah they're trying to streamline it and set it up as a new system for lots of books, but I still prefer the last edition with the synergy between core, elites, commanders etc. The options were staggering and this feels so restrictive like switching from android to an iPhone lmao. Did they just want to kill plasma spam style teams that badly? 🤔
@@choomcraft4480 I didn't play kill team in a competitive group or have any desire to so I had no idea plasma was so powerful. The amount of books is just crazy these days. I completely gave up on trying to keep up with necromunda. My friends and I just started playing the original instead.
@@kaibe5241 you're feelings are valid.
@@kaibe5241 Totally. Just leave it in inches like dafuq? They just want to add an extra step of difficulty lol Games Workshop man, doing shit that doesn't make sense
@@choomcraft4480 yeah but without using points, if you did it with points you can just increase the points until they are balanced with everything else, i dont get GW's war on points, warhammer has always been a game of statistics and wargamers do not find maths hard!
See, this is why I like you and your channel - honesty instead of unbridled joy over every new release.
That's why I don't like his channel, if you check 95% of the review are, I'm disappointed old stuff was better, EVERY, SINGLE, TIME. He represent something that is everywhere in the old fart wh community, this idea that every time they came out with something new it completely invalidate old edition. Explain to me what is stopping him to play kill team 2019 with his necron team with the rules he loves so much.
@@TheOniraf they don't print the books anymore? People keep jumping and playing the new stuff so finding games is hard? They won't make updates for new units? Honestly it's a fair criticism, I presume you watch the whole video.
Man this is rough. I have noticed a trend of GW bleeding customization from their games and this seems to be another step towards it.
Thanks for the honest review!
I went from being interested in new kill team to deciding to wait and see in one video. Glad you we able to explain this new killteam
Very, very disappointing. Also just saw that they made some existing loadouts from the last edition illegal. Plague Champions can no longer take a plasma gun. Now both of my 2 leader loadouts I had are illegal and if I want to be WYSIWYG for events and stuff, I need to scrounge up a new model just to play the new edition which I'm honestly less and less excited about every time I find out something new about it.
Yes, my Plague Champion is also invalid with the plasma gun that was already molded on the model. I thought that was a dumb plan. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions , I think a lot of people will find their leader has a no longer valid loadout.... most of my well over 12 rosters wouldn't move into this new game... was initially stoked, now I'm just sad that it going to be more difficult to find a game, as I'm sticking to KT2018 or other rule sets.... can't wait to see your Sci-Fi game, ....get to work, we need it sooner rather than later....lol. cheers
I bought the previous version of the Killteam book literally 2 days before the edition was announced, so I originally felt a little daft. Now, I couldn't feel like I'd made a better decision! This is absolute Orkpants.
The funny thing is that on ebay now are a lot of players that are getting rid of the "old" Kill Team rules and killzones as they are switching to the new "Fire Team" hype train. They will crash and burn very soon, but now it is the perfect time to obtain all the books and add-ons for the old Kill Team.
can you still it to the store
@@nightkids29 Yeah but I wouldn't want to; my point was that I don't want to go anywhere this new edition - what had at first seemed like bad luck on my part now feels like very good luck!
"They all can't be bangers!"
True but this case none of them are bangers (ex Ork and DKoK)
What you did there… I see it.
::slow clap::
I see what you did there!
::clap gains tempo to a roaring furry of clapping::
Luckily, there is a tone of better rule sets like kill team. And all of the are cheaper. Even free sometimes
Got any recommendations?
@@ashley587 carnevale by ttcombat
Onepagerules
For example: Stargrave (competition, coop, solo, campaign), Brutality (you can use any resonable size model in it: fantasy, historical, sci-fi, grim dark, any, coop, competition, solo, campaign), Horizon Wars: Zero Dark (solo, competition, coop, campaign)
@@ashley587 Grimdark Furture: Firefight, basically simpler, more fun and free for all the army lists and core rules ($5 for the full rules with some extra stuff) Killteam
was so stoked to start building and painting my new necron killteam this morning. should've known that gw would just make this a cash grab. so disappointing. thanks Atom for an honest review. seems everyone is talking about how cool this is...and I honestly just don't see the hype. maybe, if they release a Necrons "octarius style box" down the road, (and it'll probably be way down the road since they had so much new material in early 9th for 40k)...I may consider it then. but for now, my preorders have been canceled.
Personnaly i will consider the models, but i will stick with the old rules
You’re absolutely right - they will release the Necrons down the line … but who knows when? This is GW telling you to buy other models “in the meantime” or stick with the current KillTeam. I’m thinking most people will stick with current KT and impulsive idiots like me will be buying the themed boxes as they come out. I’m a goddamn Magic the Gathering player, what can I say???
An advantage I see is that they have not been removing online posts of the new compendium. So i would probably just screenshot/download it online. Then wait for the Necron focused expansion.
Before you get too bummed out by this video: You can still have fun with the compendium Necrons. Their options are similar to what existed in the last edition's Core book. Atom is understandably upset with how boring Primaris Marines ended up being in the compendium, but plenty of other teams (Necrons included) are in a reasonable spot.
@@matthewking6489 as someone who bought Pariah Nexus just a few months ago...seeing Necrons step backward back down to only 4 model options is a kick in the teeth
Honestly the combination of GWs recent behavior, these reviews, and my schedule leads me to just wanting to skip this altogether
I was in again just because my Uncle wanted to play, But seeing this video Im out, Total cash grab
Will you do a review of One Page Rules Grim Dark Future Fire fight? , it is the skirmish equivalent. The rules sheet describes moving in unit coherency but that only applies to a very few types of models, the vast majority are units of 1. It's like the small space bugs come in units of 3, etc.
I know I’ve downloaded it, saw the unit coherency diagram, and thought, “oh, this isn’t what I thought it was.” If that’s only used for certain units, then I’ll look it over again. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions It is essentially for groups of weak models to avoid activation spam issues since it uses alternating activations. For example something like 3 giants would be like a single entity in the game acting as a group.
@@tabletopminions Units like Guard Conscripts or Necromunda Juves come in groups of 3 because they are so cheap. It actually works surprisingly well balance wise.
I have been looking through RUclips all week trying to see what the new kill team was gonna be like. I appreciate your video. I was originally going to pick up the books to play at my local shop, but at that price I’m going to have to wait. Also I’m sad the way the marine teams ended up being at launch. I was gearing up to build a soup squad but I guess I’ll have to hope the rules come for it later. Bummer. Thanks for the awesome video!
Looks like Grimdark Future Firefight will have some more exposure.
What’s that?
@@BB-pn2qv killteam on one page from the creators of 40k on one page. Its fast, simple and fun!
@@vanxthenecron3059 And free!
And every force has a ton of units and options. Tried it yesterday actually and had a blast.
It's really good !
My excitement levels have gone from sky high to barely interested in this new edition. And I've been a big salesman for it in out local group
It’s a shame I just spent like 200 dollars on marines and space wolves stuff to make a kill team and now I’m hearing all I get to use are one unit? Why even sell all this crap then?
Thanks for this I’m now going to hang fire on buying the new Kill Team. This is where I feel GW gets it wrong with the need to buy all these rules then releasing interim books with limited choices.
Glad I just decided to keep on truckin’ with my old stuff. Almost everything seems to be a step backwards for my tastes.
Thanks for the insight, so glad I decided to not checkout my cart with the core rules and compendium today. Watching this afterwards… we’ll I think I’m going to keep playing the old version….
Thanks Uncle Atom. I had suspicions already, but the greater picture wasn't clear at all.
Rolling along the second half of my 40s, I'm getting helluva picky about the games I actually support. New KT doesn't qualify.
Yes GW sells rules/armylists bit by bit and update often. They can not charge 100 GBP but they can charge GBP 40 and sell it in three parts over say six months :)
So buy this compendium to be able to playa faction at all. The the box/factions et with it to get from basic to full options/depths.
New stuff to buy within 3-6 months required. AND then addons next cycle :)
They're happily asking for £60 for the two books on the hopes everyone buys Octarius box and the terrain in its place for £125. Honestly GW have just spelled out that the new Kill Team is pulling a Sims, and trying to tempt people forward on an incomplete package without half the previous editions features. I'll be sticking to the current edition and getting my friends to build lists for the current book for the next year, or at least till this new one actually has enough armies expansions for everyone to play something fun.
Just pirate all thier material like i do. Fuck giving any more of my money, I use old models and stolen books.
@@andypreece1754 it's not like pirating the books will release the content at any faster a rate to enjoy it beyond the 2 factions they'll release each quarter, but you do you and publicise your decision to break copyright laws as much as you want. It's not like GW have been publicly witch-hunting against the community or anything else of the likes lately.
@@QDurlstonP piracy is a distribution problem. GW are masters at distribution problems.
$100 dollars for 2 books to be able to play the game…. Eff that.
'Temporarily' then the 'real' rules come out later.
Don't forget you then have to acquire the models.
Yeah, think I'm in the same frame of mind.
First time playing a tabletop game?
@@infinitedm5396 well, there’s a bunch of tabletop games where the rules are free. One Page Rules - Grimdark Firefight, Starbreach, and even Infinity.
So let’s not pretend that paying $100 for rulebooks before you can even get to the table is the norm, yeah? That’s not normal, and you know it.
I remember seeing the old 4th or 5th edition 40K rules where Kill Team was just a squad vs perhaps two troops and an HQ but the kill team was able to take a wide variety of stuff because their mission was to assassinate the HQ unit... that was what inspired me to play 40k because I liked games such as Xcom. It's also part of why the (it was either GBA or DS) handheld 40k game I played was my favorite.
Thank you for reviewing this, I think I'll wait to see what the special boxes are and how they handle the rules for the different factions before jumping in on this version of kill team.
That kinda sucks. Marines should allow you to take whichever combination makes for a good Kill-Team for fair points. It would be great to have an Eliminator sniper, a normal or heavy Intercessor and then maybe lead by a Blade Guard. Basically Deathwatch should be the standard, a team full of disparate specialists that have a combination of skills
But how do you balance a that against armies that dont have the same spread of units and specialists that marines have?
How does an Imperial Guard team compare when they’re left without armour and support and still compete without breaking the game?
Well I see WHY GW did what they did, though I dont agree with it. Balancing points wise has always been a headache for them. By just making it "You take X team" they are able to more easily balance and adjust things. Is this a GOOD design? No as it does limit variability as most armies have what 5 to maybe 6 model type choices for Kill Team. Which means there are only so many combinations you can have. But it was done for the sake of balance.
Yeah, and other factions should suck when kill team full of different sergeants attack them...
@@captainparty The sad joke is, in two months there will be a box with a diverse Space Marine kill team.
@@captainparty this is why I said for fair points. When I say they should have access to things I am mainly talking about from a modelling perspective but in game I would fully expect there to be trade offs. It just doesn't make sense why a specialised team would be made with an inflexible roster. Other factions would compensate with more models on the board and whichever special abilities their operatives should have. Guard could have a sniper, vet with shot gun, Special weapons and demo-guy with grenade launcher etc AND still fill out some spots with regular Guardsmen, or maybe even a Priest etc. Likewise I would fully expect that T'au Kill-Team for instance wouldn't be limited to pulse rifle troops only, but might have a drone, a stealth battlesuit etc. In light of GW's road map and their likely plan to sell specific boxes of Operatives for each faction I guess they don't want us converting up our own from stuff we already have.
Don’t think I’ve ever seen atom be so discouraged. I’m still in a “wait and see” mode before I buy this. It seems GW is steering you towards the box set. Doesn’t seem worth it to pick up all the ancillaries because it will cost almost as much as the core box. Need to see some bat reps before I jump in. I’m too hesitant with GW stuff lately
There are some bat reps out there (Ash Barker's page) but they are using the Boxes Set stuff, nothing from the Compendium... so yeah... be nice to see some reviews from people playing with Compendium forces as well.
The real bummer is that the box sets are limited... and there are 3 more boxes coming... but we don't know what they are.
So do I buy this box? Or the next one? Or the one after that? How do I know if *this* is my favorite box, or if the next one will be? I guess I'm just supposed to buy all them?
@@yyzhed considering the fact that GW is claiming that the box set it still in stock they really don't seem as limited as people feared, then there's the fact that they'll become made to order for the weekend if they run out.
@@Eclipsed_Embers it's... Still the pre-order weekend. Of course it's still in stock.
@@yyzhed other games ran out before this point. Cursed City only lasted about an hour and 15 minutes
Looks like I'm sticking to Starbreach/Stargrave and Infinity. The idea of buying several kill team codexes doesn't really jive with me.
Preach and I'm nervous to see what comes next because I fear that GW might use this whole thing as a way to leverage certain armies who are in need of love but they'll try to get you on the hook for buying shit that only comes about in a box set.
Like watch there'll be some amazing GSC thing to come about but the only way of getting it is through a KT box.
Heyo, pity about the state of the book, but what did you think about the campaign playability of the compendium options? I was thinking of doing a video on it since KT does hold a special place in my heart, but if there isn't mechanical support for running a campaign with them then I won't bother prepping.
Also no beast snaggas in the compendium, boo.
The campaign system (at least) seems solid. You’ll have a little more customization as your Compendium models level up over time, but they’ll still be bland in comparison to the bespoke Kill Team forces. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions AHH! he said "bespoke"! This word needs to remain where it was originally intended to be used: custom-made clothes.
Any new Infinity players around here? Free and actually good rules are nice, ey?
Yup!
Been collecting Infinity for two or so years. It's my main game. I got four armies and then some. I still buy the actual rulebooks, because I like the damn company, and I know that that rulebook will be actual for more then 2-3 years.
The only thing I am upset with Corvus Belli about is they are switching to all plastic models soon.
@@harrisonlorens3585 same, but at least they’re upfront about why
@@edwarddeguzman3258 they have already said that they change only big models like tags remotes and heavy beasts.
So you basically can't build killteams in the new killteam game... weird.
And until your army book comes out you'll be disadvantaged against players that have a 'cool' army list.
Honestly it feels like this weird indecisive middle ground where both the previous version of kill team and necromunda offer alternatives that seem to more concretely cover certain bases better depending on what you want. As a Necromunda player this feels like a just as pricey but more cut down game and for the kill team diehards at my FLGS they are just sticking with arena because it gives them what they want.
This feels like its not made for an audience, its assuming an audience will come because of the recognisable names and thats not a strong starting point for any game. Its one more thing lately that feels a lot more Kirby era GW and its not a welcome trend to see coming back.
Wow - that was unusually downbeat ☹️. How have GW got this game so wrong? I was a bit annoyed that I only picked up the 2018 kill team rulebook a few months ago (and then the new edition was hinted) but it seems like there is little reason to move onto the new rules atm.
More and more reasons for me to get into one page rules
Man this really made me angry for some reason.
I was so excited when hearing that the rules were more similar to Warcry while maintaining abilities, but then it turns out specialists are not a thing in Matched Play (For some reason?) and that SMs are limited to one unit type per team.
It goes against the spirit of the game entirely. Part of the charm was having specialized models for each task and giving them names, but that's now impossible. We'll see how I break this down to my playmate, who has a team of rievers, scouts, and intercessors.
So I have the 2018 core starter set… what books do I need to remain current?
I never picked up elites or whatnot
Grimdark future. Stargrave. Just two examples of other games that let you use your GW models.
Games workshop has basically becoming a video game company that's constantly trying to sell you "New" downloadable content or season passes...
Unfortunately it’s the way of the future
@@kevinmorthorst521 I honestly think 3-D printing is the way of the future particularly if this keeps.
@@chriskoeder1229 that is a possibility if the tech keeps getting better.
As I expected. Every faction list building is so limited that you can play 3 combinations max so everybody will have same teams. Take for example admech. You can either have 10 skitarii, 5 skitarii and 4 sicarians or 8 sicarians. So basically you can build 3 same teams every time. No more mixing. Just premade lists by GW.
Some options are straight better than others and will never be taken. Why take chainsword when power sword is straight free upgrade? I don't see balance when you have space marines with 5 models fire team when custodes can take either 4 custodes or 2 custodes and 5 sisters of silence.
Overall it's way worse system than previous edition list building. I was pretty much skeptical for new KT but still thinking about pre-order. After seeing compedium I know that's not the game for me. New kill team is bastard child of boardgame and wargame with some odd rules and strange designs. Feels like a cash grab with day 1 dlc compedium (is there any sensible reason why it could not be included in rulebook?). I don't want to pay to beta test game so GW can decide later if they gonna scrap it, change it or release new rules with warcry style boxes.
Thanks for the information, I'm currently trying not to buy any new models for the rest of the year, and work through my backlog. I was worried about missing out on the new kill team set, but after hearing about this and how it affects the choices I think I'm better of waiting and seeing what comes out and how it evolves over the upcoming year. I'll stick with my current version of kill team and finish off what I have and get started with my Warcry boxes gathering dust. Great video!
Appreciate the honest take! I loved the customization aspect of KT. I have tons of books and a few people who are perfectly fine playing the current edition (which got me into miniature wargaming during COVID), so I may hold off on the new edition until specific factions I’m interested in come out.
to be honest: just play the old version, the game isnt GONE or anything. everthing is still there
Agreed!
Lets be realistic, I see this argument alot, the real thing though is that 99,9% are moving on to the new flashy stuff all of the time.
@@UnkaStunka yeah, it does depend on the people you play with. If you like to play games with whoever turns up at the club / shop that day, then you are probably going to have to play with the current rules.
But if you play with the same regular crowd in your friends garage, which is actually how the majority of tabletop games are played, then you can agree amongst yourselves which rules to play.
So, I really don't think it is 99.9% of players, but it might be 99.9% of your LOCAL players. You could always ask if anyone wants to play 2nd ed rules?
@@Mikey__R While my 99,9% was certainly pulled out of the air, I actually doubt that most play at home players stay with the old edition, more than the clubs Im with you there, but who actually knows about the garage players?
I my self play at several clubs and game at homes as well, everybody I know and know of jump on the new stuff.
Not saying that as a indicator how it is world wide, but Im sure one of GW's biggest cash flow comes from making new editions for their games all the time.
Cheers!
@@UnkaStunka and new rules drive new model sales, as people find their old models either aren't legal under the new rules, or don't play as well as they'd like. That's pretty much the business model.
I think there is definitely an element of chasing the shiny new thing with the GW hype train, and a lot of people are addicted to their weekly Saturday endorphin rush. But that only applies when the new thing is actually shiny, if it's actually not all that good then maybe you'll see fewer people wanting to chase it?
The kill team I created while waiting for this is unusable
Some of the models can't even use their weapons because they don't have rules for them...
Ha! Ha! 😂👉
One page rules firefight will allow you to use those models ... Or an older version of kill team .
Sounds pretty stupid to build a Kill Team for an unreleased game system that you know nothing about.
Why did you build an army beofre you saw the rule book?
@@matthewcampbell3146 Because nobody expected Killteam to become this inflexible, dry dogshit
Your screen presence is amazing. The 'boom' to the previous video link got a laugh from me.
100 EUR/USD for two books? Sod that. On the other hand, sounds like a good time to write a supplementary rulebook for Reign in Hell, amirite? :)
Well, not getting the new KillTeam.
Time to work on making a Reign in Hell community!
I painted 5 Incursors, 5 Reivers, and 5 Infiltrators in the hopes i can mix and match… now i just have three kilteams
At least you have a Roster now.
@@martylund8411 true
Why wouldn’t they at least give you the option to play with points, over “fire teams”?
I'm new to the hobby and mainly do mini paints. I was planning on buying Nachmund since the KT starter set is not available in my country. Then found out that I have to buy the core rule book as well as the compendium to play other factions. Maybe grimdark is the way to play.
Wow... thanks for the overview.Glad I ordered Stargrave earlier this week. It looks like I'm better off waiting for the probable release of updated compendium(s?) with the real kill teams.
The thing that worries me most about the way they seem to be going with the new business model is that when the new armies are released, they will be more or less set armies (like veteran and kommandos) So even if your faction gets an update, if you don't like that pre-made army list well, I guess you're not wanting to play kill team
I really appreciate your candor. Thanks for your hard work in making helpful and informative videos.
It's not quite as bad for a lot of the other factions from what I've seen - marines really got the short end on this one. That being said, it really is far too restrictive. Here's hoping they introduce some system for mix-and-matching from the different fireteams, but that'll probably come in another book for £30.
I think daemons and Eldar are way off as well. Very disappointed, daemons needed like 20 mins of extra effort. And time to type it in. And Tallens seem way overtuned.
Well, in my personal opinion I would o ly partly agree. Take a closer look at the Tactical Marines, Scouts and Deathwatch Fire Teams. They can mix and match pretty good, although I can understand, that the SM people are disappointed, that all their shiny new Promaris Dudes are quite boring - for the first time at least.
Marines have the most fire teams in the game. They have great stats and special abilities.
@@tomryan3768 as he showed in the video Space Marines don't seem to have any special abilities in this new version of Kill Team, they might have amazing stats and the largest number of Fire Team options but they all just seem really basic.
@@tomryan3768 as he shows in the video, a fire team of assault intercessors is one sergeant, 4 marines. No weapon choices. No team composition choices.
It doesn’t matter how good their stats are, that is boring.
WOW.
Dissapointed indeed. And here I was, planning to craft unique minis and Kill teams for myself.
You can still do that. For now they'll be similar models but you won't need many of them. You take one box and mold the team, then if they allow for mixed team list later you build into those. Yes I wish they would just give us the fluid stuff day 1, but on the bright side this means they can actually at least try and balance this game.
Except now the squads only allow for one type of playstyle. atleast in the old version, I could have one heavy gunner laying suppressive fire to the enemy, while my cqc guy flanked and ran towards the enemy.
it used to feel like every mini you put into your kill team, had their own role in it. Now it's just all the same.
@@EllaTheSuccubus24 Which I don't like either. All I'm saying Is that it's alright to say "I'm waiting". Watch some batreps, look out for community homebrew, paint your stuff. Hell go play another system for a bit, but don't feed the negative wave. Critique the game fairly, be dissapointed, but the community can change how they play if they want. We can brew up a better system bulding on the Octarius skeleton using the models we want. Just takes time and effort.
@@davetorres1893 Fair enough. I just feel really dissapointed, cause I've been planning to get into Kill team for awhile now and the announcement for Kill team 2.0 got me really psyched up. and now just hearing this horseshit has just lost all my interest in a game I've had massive interest in.
But, I guess we'll see what the future holds.
@@EllaTheSuccubus24 Like I said, watch battle reps, save up your money. Then apply your patronage as you see fit.
About a week before they announced Octarius I had finally found the 2019 annual so my wife could play with her Sister's Of Battle. I'm kinda glad to know I still have good cause to play the old kill team for the time being.
Well I was excited for the new kill team. Even bought and started customising a box of pathfinders. Sucks to know they won’t really be supported until some unknown time (or even at all). I’ll check back in in two years time to see if it’s still a mess. Really disappointing :(
Thanks for this. I was gonna buy the rulebook, compendium and some terrain thinking that would allow me to play complete games of new kill team. I'll save my money for something else now
When this was announced I was felt meh about it, then I watched your reviews video and was more interested and then this has just killed it off again.
Only thing I think this does is allow a new player to only buy one box model for the space marines to get going, which I guess is nice for them.
But for me I'll just stick to small games of 40k when I want to play. Or the old rules.
New players could already just buy one box of models to play Kill Team. It may not be optimal, but you could do it. Now with Space Marines they are RESTRICTED to only buying one box.
@@pronumeral1446 and don't forget the books and I suspect the Tac-op cards are required also, so by the time you get the models, books and cards might as well just get the box set, $100 for books, 18 for cards and 60 for a box of marines
So the moral of the story is don't buy the new kill team. Look for the old system or buy uncle atoms new demon game. 😉
GW is the best at providing disappointments these days,only Blizzard can match
Atleast GW is being sued for sexual misconduct
@@matthewcampbell3146 yet
@@matthewcampbell3146 Are they?
It’s such a shame my current and previous passion are run by two terrible companies ruining the good that came before them
Idk man, blizzardactivsion seems to have taken the lead by a wide margin
I think the one advantage with this setup is most of these fire teams seem to be consistent with what you'll actually find in a single unit's box. *For now,* we won't need video guides of which combo of boxes will be the cheapest to build a team.
Yup that's really lame. I've said this on another video, but i'm not sure how that makes sense from a business perspective. I mean i'd have gladly bought a box of heavy intercessors just to have one big heavy bolter guy, but now it seems rather unlikely. I general i'm really sad about how GW has moved away from customization options for "our dudes". Like, those new Orks and guardsmen look great, but everyone is going to have them and they probably will look quite same-y. And when they release new killteams it'll probably be the same deal. I know you can swap heads and stuff like that but that's not really what i would call customizaiton. When last KT released folks came up with all sorts of cool looking teams.
Oddly enough, the Space Marines one feels like the most boring one. I just don't get why we can't even mix assault and standard intercessors, since they're basically the same with different loadouts. Plus i think almost every other faction gets two fire teams. Would it have been so hard to have like, i don't know, a team of three intercessors who can be range or assault, and a team of maybe two heavy intercessors ? I know you can always house rule stuff but man ...
I know there are tons of other games out there where i could use my space marine models, but i never manage to really get into them. They never feel right to me. I mean if i have to buy a box of models made especially for the new killteam, i can as well play necromunda. I don't know, it's just a shame really.
Anyway. Thanks for the video Adam !
Edit : Death Guard, Custodes and Kroots look cool though. Also Admech. Maybe.
Saved me some money with this review. I think I'll pick up the old rules or play something else.
Does anyone know if compendium includes the 2 kill teams from the Rogue Trader expansion?
Not included
Thanks for the video, love the explanation and that it wasn't just a review of "the best" fire teams or somesuch. Put my preorder today and hope the new system will be well suited for 4 players free for all. My biggest gripe with the turntaking in 40k and old Kill Team was that playing more than 2 people isn't supported by the rules.
But like yourself, gonna have to shelf my old teams and perhaps build new ones. Excited to see how Chaos Daemons are structured now.
KT2018 works great with 3 or 4 players....
Saw this coming as soon as the showed the "factions" on the Kill Team website. Total bummer, the general rules look a lot more fitting for a small skirmisher, but the lack of diversity is a hard pass.
Alienating alot of old Kill Team players is not a smart move imo, but it's GW so whatever. Time to look at other skirmish systems again.
Play Grim Future Firefight, its free and the rules are one page long!
One Page Rules my man! Use what ever miniatures and the same rules.
Why to look after other skirmish game´s systems when you already have at least Necromunda and a current "old" Kill Team?
@@petrbouda1741 Because GW is wearing out it's welcome.
The best thing about Kill Team was the flexibility and modelling opportunities to make a small force of eclectic operatives. That is now gone.
Look at Pete the Wargamer’s space marine kill team. No longer usable.
Not being able to mix unit types is an absolute joke. What a step backwards.
It’s a pass from me.
The SM in the compendium is even two or three steps back... I am still asking myself what they were thinking when they mad SM, the biggest faction, THAT dull?
@@KrullMaestaren imagine playing against someone with the Veteran Guardsman team or the Kommandos team.
“Ok, so you have all these different models and each one has its own unique weapons and rules.
I’m playing Assault Intercessors, so I have 5 guys with pistols and swords, and no special rules.”
Fun.
As a guard player I'm really lucky that vet guardsman exist because non-scion guardsman literally had 1 possible list.
@@marks6928 "okay you move your necrons/tyranids/marines up and I call in an airstrike, and an artillery strike, and heal with my medic..." The lack of abilities will make players resent the bespoke teams and the game at large probably.
Wait, so the new edition is really that restrictive? Last edition my KT had four different unit types with a wide variety of equipment.
I don’t know if you can answer this specifically but considering the major issue here seems to be the fire team mechanic, how does that work with gellerpox and the rogue trader team? Are those pretty much out now or are they even in there?
there isn't a new box for kill team by now is there?
Pete the Wargamer's converted Kill-Team is the sort of thing I would want to make
Seen the Grey knights he made?
just stay with the old rules. Change about them what you want - alternating turns etc.
This sounds like a good idea. I might try that for homebrewing old KT with alternating activations of miniatures or maybe alternating turns in moving :D thanks for that
I can see special Kill Team boxes coming where the Squad Leaders give some sort of bonus rules.
Are the starstriders in the compendium?
So, why make all these changes? I thought Kill Team was supposed to be an intro to the more expensive games...but now it's expensive and dull.
They want to make as much money as they possibly can. I guess you don't know how modern corporations work.
Why make these changes?
Money. That simple.
@@andrewmarkowski308 if they want to make as much money as possible they should make and sell dope shit, not push out garbage.
@@T0mm3n that's not how capitalism works. Scamming customers, anti-consumer behavior, and pushing trash always has a higher profit margin. On top of that its easy, most executives are dumber than a dog turd and it doesn't take much brains to scam compared to making good products. That's why every large corporation is on awful.
It's not supposed to be an intro, but it will be a better one since you're building a squad that can directly go to big 40k
The new game is better than KT1 from batreps and stuff I have seen so far, but the new barrier to entry is bad. I'm not surprised at all the KT Compendium is an index, or that you have to homogenize your space marines, but some of the options for how to build a team are really disappointing. You can't build a Deathwatch Kill Team, as shown on on the front of the "Deathwatch Kill Team" box of minis, since you can't build the sergeant as shown. Do I trust GW to fix those things if/when boxes come out for each faction? Probably not.
I'd been looking to get into the LotR Battle Companies sub game.
Until I saw I needed to buy four 50-60 dollar books, then the minis...
The compendium is... uh... a really bad shelf filler? Until your teams new warzone book and box is released. More $$$ for GW and probably Elites in the future :/
The compendium teams are just bad in some cases.
I know that the variety of models has been quite limited, but just reading the necron equipment section I am already having several ideas to customize my kill team models.
Vanilla is delicious.
We just had friends over for breakfast and taught them how to play KT2.0. They were stoked to blow the dust off of some old 40k troops and play a game that didn’t take hours. They weren’t overwhelmed with crunch, which makes it a great re-entry point, and fun to play for experienced folks.
The compendium was the first thing we recommended they buy, and use *ahem* online ‘resources’ until they decide to take the plunge. They can use the book to judge if they’re going to use their old models or buy and paint up something new with the context of their fresh play experience.
Meanwhile, at our house, we have containers of armies that we can grab and go without trying to remember a ton of special rules, what each model is built as, et al.
I get how the hardest of hardcore, crunch monster, tournament guys would be disappointed, but I think it’s a great book, making everything accessible.
I'm happy I already took the jump into Frostgrave & Stargrave. I'm looking forward to your next game, because I don't like the theme of RiH (despite the rules being awesome).
Next game will be sci-fi, so hopefully that’ll be more to your liking. Thanks for watching!
@@tabletopminions I intend to buy it day 1 😁
@@tabletopminions same boat, I don't like the theme of the game you released.... almost bought it just because it was YOUR creation....
Can't wait for a sci-fi game , hopefully it's a skirmish game that fits nicely with my 20 year collection of various SM, Orks, CSM, Grey Knights , Tau, Necrons, GSC, AdMech, etc.... can't wait to see what you create next...and what videos you're making in coming months... your honest and non-fanboy videos are great, and your gaming preferences are much like own...
Cheers
Isn‘t the idea of a low model count skirmish game essentially the ability to build cool, diverse teams with many options? What the hell? I assume they completely butchered the system because of competitive tournaments. Everyone knows it works the other way around. A good popular game with a broad fanbase has enough enthusiasm and people so that a competitive scene can evolve out of it. It never works the other way around. This version of Kill Team will sadly fail and die a slow death.
If one went with Space Marines and built the Scouts, they do offer more weapon options, but that is about it.
@@andrewcook3983 But its not about the options on that particular model, its about having bunches of different models. As Adam said you used to be able to have a KT for Necrons of like 3 warriors 3 Immortals a Deathmark and like 2 Flayed ones. Now? Warriors and Immortals, or Warriors and Deathmarks, or Warriors and Flayed ones, or Immortals and Deathmarks. The new system has made it from having 4+ different actual model types to at MAX having 2.
@corrinavatan ok, maybe just don't play with min-maxing assholes instead of butchering the entire point and feel of the game.
It's also bad for business. To build a diverse Kill Team you might need to buy 2 or 3 boxes of different troops. Now, you are restricted to buying one box of Assault Intercessors (for example) to play.
Makes no sense.
@corrinavatan
Your complaint doesn't make sense, as that can be applied to basically every wargame when playing against people who are WAAC gamers. Obviously it's not a friendly/casual game when your opponent is bringing a cracked list.
Would you recommend to get into the old/ current Kill Team as of now?
If you want to get into the last version of the game, you’ll certainly be able to buy the books online. Thanks for watching!
somebody at the design table heard "you can play kill team with just one box of miniatures" and thought that it was a maximum not a minimum