Is Hell a Just Punishment? | Christian vs Atheist
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- In this episode I respond to a video by @RedPenLogic on the topic of just punishment for sin.
Please keep in mind that all everything I say here is my subjective opinion, and is intended to deconstruct fundamentalist/evangelical/conservative Christian ideologies from an ex christian perspective
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Outro Music | "Pixels" by Jeff Kaale
tags | Ex christian, deconstructing christianity, exvangelical, former fundie, leaving christianity, gospels, jesus, bible, god, christian, evangelism, apologist, atheist vs christian, agnostic, recovering from religion
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Growing up in a southern Baptist church, I was subjected to the fire and brimstone preachers screaming at the top of their lungs like they were condemning the congregation for coming to listen to the service, the deep psychological effect on young children is just cruel and the parents of children seem oblivious to this.
Not oblivious, full of certainty as to the virtuous effects. My beef is with the establishment (mind doctors and others who know better) for not calling it what it is. CHILD ABUSE.
Yeah, it's terrible that the preacher wanted to save your eternal soul. If there were a fire in your house would you not want him to tell you ? If you had cancer and he knew the cure wouldn't you want him to tell you?
@@kevinjackson2361 First of all I was speaking about the effect that screaming about hell fire has on young children, of course your probably of the believe that if a 5 year old dies, he would be cast into a lake of fire, you should research those words and translations from Aramaic to Greek many are double translations , that early church writers only used the meaning that suited the narrative they created.
@The mesenger the fire is real, your mind virus deity is not.
@@kevinjackson2361 The good thing is that those things you listed are real things that can happen, can be observed, and can be treated/fixed…your god doesnt even qualify for any of these requirements lol
He says we "choose" sin, but I thought we were born sinners? If we were born/made sinners than billions were made to go to hell without choice.
And by not choosing salvation, you are choosing to remain dead in your sin. What’s not clear?
@@bmak76 What if I chose salvation then realized it's BS, does OSAS still stand?
@@Pfsif You’re referring to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and I would assume it does not. However I do believe you are always welcomed back if your heart ceases to be hardened against God. That’s a risky game to play though. Obviously I could be wrong. Also, the concept of “once saved, always saved” isn’t accepted by all Christians.
@@bmak76 Crapola
@@bmak76 why should anyone care what you "would assume"?
Also, what's clear about people who never GOT a chance to "choose" a salvation they never heard of?
I always wonder how a family would feel in heaven knowing a member is in hell for mere lack of belief.
Depends on the family member. You assume a Normal Rockwell family I think. I'd have no problem knowing.
ruclips.net/video/4WB17qv-joc/видео.html
That would make heaven a sorta hell.
@@realigiousrayne That is certainly my thought and I would certainly not think it is fair to be tortured for mere disbelief. I do suspect there is an afterlife but I also believe all religions get it wrong and historically there always seems to be a good reason for why our man made religions came into being.
Lack of belief is literally the only thing that's unforgivable, but it's "unforgivable" because of a mechanical issue in logic. You say "merely", but it's the only thing that's truly problematic. It's the one thing that most affects choice.
On top of that "hell" isn't what we think of when we think of hell. It's a place where God is not. It's "torture" only in that it's a place that is not necessarily in line with the will of God, a place that is "not good".
Since we were made in line with God's Will, and what we like most at the end of the day, the things that are good... We would perceive anyting not good as being torturous.
... Or something like that.
But, how would anyone feel, knowing that anyone is experiencing a life without goodness within it. And especially when it's because they've chosen that life?
Good video. I believe you nailed it!!! "We, humans, DO NOT TORTURE OUR PRISONERS IN JAIL!!!"
At least now, because in the middle ages it was worse than death to be sentenced in a jail. People were getting whipped back then . We really evolved to have more compasion towards prisoners . Some had horrid childhoods and some were bullied by people before they turned the way they are.
Christians speak as if we all signed a contract to exist or something. We didn't even choose to be here yet suddenly we're slaves to a God and are bound to his rules with no way out. That's sickening
God wants us to reach Heaven and experience everlasting bliss.
But He is a libertarian - He won't force us to.
We're born cursed, yet it's our fault that we're cursed. Uhhhhhh......... what?
God isn't too bright, is he?
@@tonybuck1225 Yet the alternative is suffering in Hell? An experience God is responsible for creating in the first place? If God was truly libertarian he would let loose all those who choose not to follow or believe in him. Not create then entrap them
@@jojo_jx7 yes that’s how it works. The creator of the universe makes the rules. He still gives us free choice. He even tells us everything that we enjoy is because of him. Laughter, joy, peace sunshine, friendship, rain, trees, nature..etc hell is simply a place void of God thus everything good. Can’t eat your cake & have it too.
@LeoB The surprising thing is that the texts got written at all.
They need interpretation and explanation - one good reason why the Church exists.
There is only One Church, of course - the Catholic Church that Jesus founded.
I would also ask if infinite suffering is ever just for a finite crime. How can an imposed punishment ever be just if one can never learn from it?
Because it’s not a ‘punishment’ it is a state of one’s soul.
@@ianalan4367 The Christian in the video literally describes it as the 'just punishment for sin'.
Now, I know folks like you want to talk around that through a semantic game. But regardless, the deity that is most often articulated in this world view is omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient. Which is a contradiction because the deity has the power and knowledge to subvert this cruelty of the fate. Why doesn't this ever powerful deity create a cycle of learning for these wayward soles? Even we hope that prisons teach people to be better. The Deity has nothing better than to just cast aside these souls?
@@zotaninoron3548 Stop listening to Christians who have no magisterial authority to teach/interpret Scriptures. A deconstruction of Calvinist theology is not actually a deconstruction of authentic traditional/classical Christian theology. Having said that, I don't really blame people for whom the Christianity they have always known is the modern/Protestant interpretation. It's either the traditional Christianity isn't speaking up enough, or the modernists are much louder.
@@Lerian_V I hate to break it to you but I don't think anyone has any special authority, here. Everyone has their own nonsense they're rationalizing.
There are plenty who believe as the Christian in the video believes and that's all that matters. The contradiction in their belief. I actually think the one in the video is more honest than the first guy, Ian Alan, to reply to me. Because at least he isn't trying to play semantic games to try and rescue an omnipotent deity from the responsibility of the consequences of the creation it is claimed it made. Its cowardly, frankly. The tv series, "The Good Place" actually does a not half bad job destructing many of the inherent issues and managed to resolve a lot of the problems by the end of the series in a pretty reasonable way given the confines of a comedy about philosophy.
But you're more than welcome to throw your own interpretation into the ring and I'll gladly punch holes in it for you. :) I've yet to hear an interpretation of the Christian God that isn't pretty awful. Its actually pretty wild to me that Christians try to cling to the idea that the deity they worship is benevolent considering the monstrous things it gets up to in the bible.
@@zotaninoron3548 I understand that's what you think. But if you knew better, you wouldn't have fallen for the perverted version of Christianity you experienced.
I'm not saying anyone here has authority. I'm not the authority, you're not the authority either; no one here is. It's rather the 2000-year-old Church from which we got the Bible that has the authority to interpret and teach it.
Bottom line: "Sending yourself to hell" is nowhere to be found in the bible. It's a modern-day Christian invention, a manufactured ad hoc meme to avoid being confronted with the fact that their god is pure evil.
"God wants everyone to be saved" (1Timothy)
Of course if God was evil, or even harsh, we would already be in Hell.
@@tonybuck1225 That's just stupid. I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but that very belief deserves ridicule. So your god is considered good because he's going to put us through the grinder here on earth to see who would actually believe in him - and those who don't still go to eternal damnation?
For what? Sins that I was born with without my knowledge? Either way you slice it your god is abysmal and a complete whacko.
@@tonybuck1225Do you not believe that hell is a harsh punishment?
@@tonybuck1225 don't choke on those cherry pits
@@tonybuck1225 ["God wants everyone to be saved" (1Timothy)]
Are you claiming that your God concept is NOT omnipotent and/or NOT omniscient? Why? If one has the capability and knowledge to achieve what one wants, then such should be the outcome.
Another very thoughtful video filled with great rational analogies (on your part anyway 😊). Keep up the good work.
I'm a Christian, and I want to hear more. I think this is great. One thing we all want is the truth. I won't sit here and say, "I know the answer" to everything. Something is definitely off. Especially when it comes to the healing theatrics and demon deliverance sermons. It looks stupid!!!! And it's embarrassing when these wackos fall all over each other, screaming and fish flopping on the ground. It's so fake!!!! I get nervous even writing this but it's my true thought.
Hi I experience supernatural evil in my life but those sermons are fake they're for selling out fear to people no one knows much about the occult except witches pastors can't even outcast demons if they tried
@New Creature Questioning the faith. This is heavy stuff
@New Creature I'm not off path. I'm using the mind God gave me. I've spent the the last two days talking with believers as a non-believer, and its a mess. If God is not the God of confusion why am I confused? I still believe in Christ and faith in the redemption God set up for us. But the American church is wack. I've seen many believers talk to athiest as if they were the bad guy in a comic book. We call them devils tell them they love the dark when they are just asking questions.
@New Creature Yes, but I think all of us, definitely including myself, have done a horrible job of representing ourselves. Going out and yelling at people, "You are going to hell," and calling it love never sat well with me. We believe in that as a truth, but they don't. I'm a recovering addict and even in AA or any other 12-step program, we draw people in by attraction, not damn nation. When we have people putting on these theatrical Holy Spirit healings, it looks ridiculous. Well, if you're outside the church looking in, it's confusing and frankly its weird. They can sense the BS, but we still yell at them about hell. Thats just 2+2=4. t's all over place. No wonder they stay clear and make jokes. It's not persecution. It's us acting.
@@Gods-bad-boy I thank you for you keen observations. I hope they bear interesting fruit - one way, or the other?
I myself, find some of the pamphlets that basically start out their pitch with 'you can be exempted' on the cover, to be one of the most awkward.
And also tending, to be quite light, on backstory, too.
This is so good, well said and makes sense. I'm loving your videos Kristi. Each one is so well thought out and clearly delivered. I'm well out of the church scene now days. But it's always great to be reminded why. And you do it it perfectly. Keep em coming. Thank you.
ruclips.net/video/4WB17qv-joc/видео.html
I appreciate your calm, articulate, logical way of explaining these things. :)
How is this logical?
You have explained this so clearly, thank you.
and awfully.
Not only is the speed limit not clearly posted. In Christianity, there are at least five different speed limits at the same location.
If there was a God why wouldn’t he clear up all this confusion instead of letting people pull a random answer out their butt on his behalf. God could easily visit every human being once they reach a certain age and explain to them exactly what the situation is.
good point!
Ask and it is given. "The Book of GOD" can be read in 5 minutes and yet reveals ALL major mysteries! And as for Hell...you're soaking in it! Hell is LIMITATION and SEPARATION, which is your current experience. But the "GOOD NEWS" is that this is temporary, and everyone will return to our natural LIMITLESS condition. "GOD our Savior...will have all men (and women) to be saved and come unto knowledge of the truth." (1Timothy 2:3-4) You don't have any reason to believe this, so you shouldn't. But I am the prophesied return of the biblical prophet Elijah. Kristi is correct that orthodox Christianity doesn't make sense. Yeshua's message has been entirely corrupted to the point that most Christian churches teach a "gospel" that is extremely BAD news! Guilt-based FEAR is your only enemy. The Truth is simple and makes perfect sense. And I have it. Click and ye shall find. (You can reach me via my site.)
So hard to achieve since he’s nonexistent.
God does visit everyone - it's called one's conscience. We all have one.
@@AndJusticeForMe If God were non-existent, the universe would be too.
I remember when I first heard this type of argument: "its not god who does it, its you"... these whole brainwashing thought controlling mechanisms seep into normal life. People will try to tell you they don't, but they do! It teaches people how to detach themselves from responsibility and truth.
There is a real life recursive psychology manipulation based "The Matrix" in this world. It's religious crap like Christiantiy and other so called "just" ways of thinking that are darn good at trapping people in their thinking. Wachowski's weren't far off...
Yes, I live in Brazil, a very Christian country where there is a church on every corner. here the control of religion over people is much greater and they use exactly these responses to control the people
It upsets me that at one point as a child I thought that I’d go to hell for merely misbehaving. It’s sad to know I’m not the only one.
Sin sends people to Hell NOT your behavior, Jesus blood washes all your sins a way past present and future when you trust him ONLEY.
@@theodoreritola7641 sucks to be everyone who never heard of Jesus I guess
SUCKS EVEN WORSE WHEN U KNOW ABOUT HIM AND U REJECT HIM, WHO IS THAT ON ? THAT all you need to do is belive that he died 4 all your sins past present and future sins and when u belive he died 4u presonaly to keep u out of hell and be with him 4 ever u will be saved his promise to them that belive him
@@theodoreritola7641 ok so firstly, you didn't address my point so I assume you concede that it's an immoral thing that is being put forward by your religion.
Secondly, if you punish people for not believing in something you are punishing them for something they fundamentally cannot control. Either I can be convinced and believe that Jesus died for my sins or not based on the information put forward, it's not something I can actively choose. If you doubt that, see if you can believe that there's an invisible dragon living under your bed for the next hour. I bet you can't, because belief is not a choice.
God knows their heart and no he will not send them to hell. He knows their knolage
Just discovered your channel and I'm so glad you came to YT! I never go on TikTok, so I was missing out. A lot of what you describe in your vids is exactly what I felt and realized when Instatyed reading the Bible and questioning everything for myself. I could never have explained it as succinctly as you, so thanks!
hell as a concept is immoral and thus evil. There are no two ways about it. Once you break down hell you quickly realize hell is not about punishment but vengeance. There is nothing constructive with hell, you don't come out of hell a better person as it never ends. Hell isn't about disciple correction or redemption again since it never ends.
@@godfist314 I am not denying anything, and isn't it interesting how you seem to have a different interpretation of the bible than others. If 'god' were real and the bible really the inerrant word of that being, there would be no need for interpretation, the word would be clear.
You also missed the point entirely about hell being immoral and vengeance.
I also note if a 'god' were real it would not need human spokespersons and be able to communicate with me directly.
All people in hell already had a short or long lifetime to repent and turn to the Lord but they chose they chose not to. That is when becoming a better person, correction and redemption can happen, when someone is alive. Once someone is in hell they have exhausted their last opportunity and there is no turning back.
Romans 12:19 KJV - Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
@believestthouthis7 do you not recognise that fact as immoral, unfair and unjust? Infinite punishment for finite crimes and inherited 'sin' is immoral. That's not justice but vengeance.
@@waveman0
Tell that to God at the judgment seat. God is everlasting; He exists outside of time... He has always existed and will always exist. So His punishment OR REWARDS last forever. Choose to trust Him and be His child and you get to live with Him forever! Is that fair? I think that you would find it quite comfortable to be in heaven forever with the Heavenly Father, but if you don't want that, then that's your choice. You choose. He forgives His children the second that they repent and trust in Jesus. That's like refusing a get out of jail free card and whining about it. You don't have to experience eternal punishment but you'd rather do that then say you're sorry to God? The Lord Jesus Christ already died on the cross to pay for our sins. Just accept the free gift and there is no more eternal punishment!
@@believestthouthis7 that's called an unfalsifiable proposition, how did you determine that your 'god' exists outside of time? This also means he/it exists for no time, which is the equivalent of not existing....LoL
Plus the proposition of vicarious redemption is disgusting to me and immoral. What you are suggesting isn't just or moral. I'm not whining about the moral implications of the christian system, rather I am evaluating it.
You are great! You are very logical in your analysis and your rebuttals are flawless. Keep it up, people are listening!
Nice video. Everything you said could be easily thought of by someone who actually wanted the truth, but sometimes people just need to hear it spoken. I’ll check out some of your other videos.
I really appreciate that you approach these topics with respect and clarity. It is easy to see that you have more genuine love for humanity than most christian leaders do. Like you, I can't possibly comprehend how the Bible can be God's infallible word. That doesn't mean, however, that I have to give up on love, respect or the belief in a higher power which we all must figure that out for ourselves. Thank you for your work. Humanity still has a lot of growing up to do, but it starts with just getting honest.
I'm starting to think maybe God is indifferent with us. I am not speaking about the biblical God. There most certainly has to be " a" creator.
I also believe in good and evil. Those forces or energies exist.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You wrote, "I can't possibly comprehend how the Bible can be God's infallible word." Is it possible that God's Word is beyond your understanding? How smart does a person have to be to understand God?
Yet, the basics are easy. God is good; we are not. Wicked people cannot enter into heaven, but will be cast outside with other wicked people. Hell is torment and it lasts forever. However, Christ loves you. He desires your friendship. If you reject Him, He will not pull you into heaven by your ears! If you reject Christ, you will spend forever without God and God is love. Eternity without love. Meditate on that thought for a while. Christ died on a Cross so that, just by asking, you may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@@kenshiloh But wicked people can enter Heaven as long as they believe that Christ died for their sins.
@@kenshiloh "Hell is torment and it lasts forever. However, Christ loves you." Wow, the cognitive dissonance must be maddening for you.
@@Jesselless The word 'believe' has a deeper meaning than most Christians think. To believe on Jesus means that you follow His teachings. That is, He said that the Father will give the Holy Spirit to whoever asks of Him. It is a meeting with God. When a person is filled with the Holy Spirit, that is called being 'born again.'
For example, when I was born the first time, it was with a sin nature. I was in trouble with the authorities and got into a ton of trouble. Then I met Christ and went from hanging out with the worst of people to making friends with solid gold saints. Most of all, I know Christ.
My friend Mike was likewise really bad. For example, he led a riot in San Quinten prison. Even his mother had given up on him. Then one day, I told him about Christ and his life was miraculously changed. He is not the same person that he was. One time, he told me that he had a difficult time dealing with all the hurt and pain he had caused. Now, part of recovery is to make amends if you can, but Mike was still feeling rotten about it. I told him, "Do not worry. Justice has been served. You see, they took Mike's Savior and nailed Him to a Cross."
Christ paid the penalty for the entire planet. Those in Christ are made brand new. I could give you a hundred stories of lives transformed, but I think you get the picture. I hope you will get to know Christ. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
Lady, I wish you and youtube were around some 50 years ago when I was struggling with these issues. But I am glad you are here now for others
There is a way that seems right, but THE END IS THERE DISTRUCTION Satan has you spiritually blinded, and you don't even see your fate without his son the LORD JESUS CHRIST
@reritola7641 "the end .. disstruction .. satan .. blinded .. lord JC"
You live in dream you can't prove but it is funny
The brainwashing worded on you sadly.
Prove the supernatural events of the bible are real Be the first person to ever do that
That dude’s “two cents”
are worth every penny.
Completely brilliant!! One of the best comments among this whole range of great comments!
@@genewhiteman1811 well if you cannot believe and do not believe that he died for your sins on the cross then he can’t atone for your sins because you don’t believe it actually happened
So are yours! 🙄
@@ciggyjacobs6391 Without faith it is impossible to please God/Jesus Christ. Unbelief (no faith) causes one to be condemned already. Read what Jesus says in the book of John chapter three.
The injustice of hell is what drove me away from Christianity. Even as a child, I recognized that there was something inherently wrng with a belief that "punished you for your sin" but in the same breath told you Jesus died for your sins and now you just have to believe and go to heaven. Then they say murders who repent on their death beds get to go to heaven and the Buddhist monk who lived a non-violent life goes to hell because they were born in Bhutan. All of it is complete crap! It doesn't even matter who sends who to hell, the fact that Hell exists at all is an issue!
It's how Christians who don't understand the nature of God who twist his word into something unlike God that drives people away from him. But God's righteous judgment is strictly corrective and restorative in nature and nobody will be eternally separated from God.
I've said the same thing so many times, as soon as you allow yourself to question christianity, it all falls apart. And that's why they push so hard that "without faith you can't please God." And "we just aren't meant to know God's ways." It appeals to our laziness, giving us an an excuse to stop thinking. To take the easy way out and just accept what you're told. I just wish I would have realized these things much earlier in life. Good on you for putting this information out there.
You will regret believing these lies when you are standing before God.
@@harrisontaylor3751 and Santa won't bring me any presents either.
@@harrisontaylor3751 Ah, you mean like how Satan got to stand before this god, and talk errant nonsense about Job - despite that his view should have counted for no real thing, nor his privilege, to revisit heaven, at time?
Post exile...
And things cannot be a lie if people actually see things, that way, I feel.
@@harrisontaylor3751
To please the Christian god, I'd have to become a hateful sadist. I'll pass. If he wants to prove that he's a hateful sadist after I die, whatever.
that's why Pascal's wager is so futile, if you bear false witness by telling that you believe you're basically sinning on another crime from the list...
The best thing about hell is the fact that it is a human fabrication.
100% true
EVERYTHING about mono-theism is a human fabrication.
Scientists say the center of the earth is full of fire. 🤔 funny the Bible says the same thing!
@@cezz1105 It is not hard to say that if you observe active volcanoes. It is harder for primitive people to know that the earth is not flat.
@@jgestiot 🙄
Love your arguments. Your purpose is to enlighten ignorant people from all faiths.
Red Pen confidently confirms his listeners bias. Just like every other apologist ever.
The listeners don't have to do any thinking.
True. "Learn the liturgy by heart, so you don't have to think. Thinking can lead to sin."
He wants to preach Truth, not Falsehood.
He wants his listeners to go to Heaven, not Hell.
How is any of that wrong ?
Lol theologist have studied the idea of atonement since the beginning of Christianity. You atheists know it all 😂
@@tonybuck1225 Religion ends where knowledge begins, my friend. Therefore, where knowledge exist, there is clearity and no need for faith, speculations or assumptions such as religion has. Do you think there are so many religions because of knowledge or because of faith and assumptions?
@@mariobethell3731 There are no speculations or assumptions in the Bible.
God asks for our trust - which is what faith very largely is.
Hence there is no cut and dried proof of any religion. If there were, faith wouldn't be necessary or a virtue.
You must choose which religion to believe - or none at all.
But it's a matter of faith, whatever choice you make.
The same is true of Science - you belive in the laws of science on trust; you've never tried to prove them.
The same Is true of History - you don't know that Napoleon ever existed. You place faith in the historians.
As a Christian, I love watching your content, because I too want a logical outlook and find many of the traditional views and arguments illogical and self-contradictory. I'm not an atheist, but I'm trying to figure out the truth. So many beliefs aren't built on valid logical arguments. This doesn't automatically make them false, but if they are true, they need to be supported by better arguments. Many of them I too am dissatisfied with. Ever since fundamentalism, American Christianity has been intellectually impoverished.
I would recommend "A Course in Miracles". The best way to describe it is it's a mind training program. It helps you "deconstruct ", as Kristie puts it. Unlearn the garbage, relearn (remember?) truth. I found it after I left the church, and it's changing my life.
I have questioned things a thousand times over, so I hear you.
Might I encourage you, though?
With everything in your power, RUN from this channel and don't look back until you get all the answers you need.
Kristi has an EMBARRASSINGLY low understanding of scripture. I've watched about 3 or 4 of her videos and it's almost like she gets worse every time!
If you have questions, PLEASE don't look here for the answers. She is NOT the one. In fact, MOST atheists don't have a good grasp of scripture.
I would say, try a channel with a person that has "Dr." I front of their name or ANYbody, except Kristie! Here's a list of a few people I know of:
Allen Parr
Corey Minor
Saiko Woods
Andy Woods (Sugarland)
R.C. Sproul (Ligioner)
John MacArthur
Voddie Baucham
Dr. Michael Heiser
Dr. Michael Brown
Melissa Dougherty
Mike Winger
Tony Evans
These are all Christians, but I wouldn't go to ATHEISTS for "answers." I love to talk to them to get their perspective and listen to their concerns, but NEVER to help me understand the Bible.
One
@@alexwhite2330 "Dr" Mike winger 😂😂🤣🤣
Yeah... This my friend is called confirmation bias, and is exactly the reason why listening to people like Kristie is so helpful. The fact that a few supposedly wrong answers (that you cannot prove are wrong) puts you in such state of emergency of appealing to an echo chambear, is quite telling.
People like you is why christianity has been on decline, hearing the old 'dont listen to others because i have the true' is a sure way of damaging any credibility.
As a Christian you know well that there is Godly wisdom and worldly wisdom. If your heart motive in seeking the truth is for God's glory, He will teach you.
@Dave-nh2tg I added this comment to the video, but just in case you don't see it....here is one thinking Christian's summary/rebuttal of the points mentioned.
God possesses the attributes of perfect justice and perfect mercy among other things. But perfect justice requires punishment for every crime committed no matter how small and perfect mercy requires one to not punish any crime no matter how big. While these two attributes seem contradictory they are not when we look at it from God's perspective which He revealed to us in the Bible (otherwise we couldn't possibly fathom the mind of God). All Christian beliefs have this common pillar of the faith which is the substitutive power of Jesus's death as payment for our sins. So while there are countless denominations, none of them that claim to be Christian can deny that Jesus is the payment for our sins. Now, how does this make sense? How is it just that an "innocent" bystander (which Jesus is not a random bystander FYI) takes the place of the criminals? Well it isn't "just". It is God's display of His perfect mercy that He allows Jesus to step in for humans. If this analogy were to be more appropriate, the Judge in His desire to be both perfectly merciful AND just chooses to be merciful to the criminals and to satisfy His desire for justice, He steps down from the judgement seat and takes the place of the criminals and sentences Himself to the punishment meant for the criminals. So His mercy is satisfied in letting the criminals go and His justice is satisfied in that every crime is punished and He bears the punishment. The Bible says the wages of sin is death. So every sin is paid for by "death", not hell. This is why the Israelites had to sacrifice animals for the cleansing of sins in the Old Testament. Thus, God pays Himself the sentence of death for every sin committed by humans. And God dies for those sins. But God being eternal, His human death becomes an eternal "death payment" if you will. Killing the immortal God is how one "person" can pay for all the sins. This is why Jesus is both God and Man. God because He is eternal and man so that He could suffer death as payment. So, in a round about way, God has basically created what appears to be from our viewpoint a "loophole" where He is able to say He is perfectly just and perfectly merciful at the same time. Hell, is where He sentences you if you choose to not accept Jesus's payment for your sin. Then yes, you "pay your own way" and that means eternal death. And since you committed a crime against a being who is eternal, your crime while to you may exist only in a finite point in time, to the eternal being you committed this crime against there is no "time", it is an ever present crime which has to be "constantly" paid for and since you are not an eternal being, your death isn't enough. Thus, you exist in "eternal" death, also know as hell.
"I form light and create darkness. I form good and create evil, I, the Lord do all these things" I forget which verse that is but its definitely worth reading
I cited that to a christian and he called it blasphemy lol
Fantastic explanation! I’ve never heard it answered in this way and it really helped me deconstruct that so much better 👏🏻
It's made worse by the fact that some of the "sins" that are deemed worthy of eternal torture are not anything any rational person could consider morally wrong at all. Two enthusiastically-consenting single adults having sex, for example. Choosing the "wrong" religion to follow. Eating pork products. Eating any meat except fish on a Friday. Eating meat period. Using contraception. Supporting LGBT+ rights. Being LGBT+. There are lots of loopy rules that various denominations claim will result in eternal torture in the afterlife.
Working on the Sabbath.... not honouring your father and mother... wonder how many of these people have ever wanted (covetted) something someone else owns? They will all be eternally punished... apparently
“Hell is, and has never been anything other than, a fiction invented by religions in an attempt to gain power and followers by bludgeoning people into line through threats and fear. As an atheist, I reject this tactic; it is nothing but empty words. Without evidence to back it up, the tattered specter of eternal torment should not sway a rational mind in the least. No one has anything to fear from this myth. The doctrine of Hell is constructed to appeal to the emotions, but collapses when examined by simple conscience or logic.”
-Adam Lee
👍👍
I really appreciate you and what you do. Thank you for everything, I think you do a really good job of doing this the way that it needs to be done.
No one deserves hell period.
The realities of eternal damnation, eternal hell, and eternal punishment are frightening and disturbing. But it is good that we might, indeed, be terrified. While this may sound grim, there is good news. God loves us and wants us to be saved from hell. But because God is also just and righteous, He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished. We are not like God. He is Holy. He hates sin, and we love to sin. Therefore, we need forgiveness. Salvation is a free gift. The problem is, we dont want to give Him control, and live apart from sin, and the desires of this world. Its actually not as bad as you might think, because when you do humble your heart and ask for forgiveness, God sends His Holy Spirit to live on the inside of you, so its not like you are still the same person as you were before. The Holy Spirit radically transforms your mind and heart. You suddenly have a whole new attitude and desire. He fills you with this amazing feeling of peace, love, and joy like you never had before. And you dont even know why you feel so good, because your life might not even be so great. But its something you can only understand when you actually come with faith and call upon His name. Its a wonderful message of salvation, and once you truly invite Him into your life, you will know what I am talking about. Its awesome! Its a supernatural change that occurs the moment you become born again. Nothing to do with church. Its just between you and God. The Holy Spirit is the key. So I would really encourage you to think about it, and I pray you find it in your heart one day to give Him a chance. Once you seek Him and truly experience what He has to offer, then you are going to say, I was right. God is good, and I want to thank Him, and praise Him the rest of my life. All you need to do is simply, humble your heart and pray with faith, I repent of my sins, and I turn to You. You said in Your word that if we confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus,, and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead, we shall be saved. I ask You Father to forgive me of all my sins, and ask You to fill me with the Holy Spirit, and take control of my life. Its not the words, its about your heart. Will pray the Holy Spirit touches your heart, because He cares for you, and He has a special purpose for you. Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Be blessed.
You are right. No one deserves hell. That is why the Bible nowhere threatens us with eternal conscious torment. Churches do. The Bible does not.
@@IsaacNussbaum The book of Revelation does. ;-)
@@wanderer44-xr5si Yes, that was a huge load of bullshit.
@@lepidoptera9337 *"The book of Revelation does."* Many people agree with you. I regret to report that I am not one of them.
its not a choice its a ultimatum. God gets too much credit but not enough blame. I enjoy these type of videos making christians look dumb . keep them coming
If I hold a gun to your head and ask you nicely for your wallet but you refuse so I pull the trigger, you killed yourself for not choosing to give me your wallet.
Christian logic
The real charm in her presentation is the decency and respect she projects in the process of the review.
They believe 1+1 is -3 lol, though I believe in God but I don't know who he Is because humanity has corrupted Bible and his books I still pray to God whoever my creator that Is because I experience the supernatural evils
Enjoying seeing other people look dumb is a mean-spirited form of behavior. However, if you don't like dumb Christians, what must you think of road rage, mass school shootings, meth addiction, and domestic abuse?
There is an element of choice though. If people do not want to go to heaven and spend eternity with God then you must respect their decision. If you put them in heaven against their will they would not be happy,
I'm glad he admitted it. That's why I like your videos Kristi. You are getting some Christians to at least admit what they wouldn't before.
Good point. So many loving Christians conceal what they truly feel about their fellow human beings.
Hi friends
The mark of the beast is coming
You can see the leaders bringing the way to control the buying and selling
And the day will come where you will worship the devil on Sunday with the false Christian faith
Because church and state will unite to control human behavior
Time is short, and if we all keep on the path we're on, we're all going into captivity
And then Jesus will give you what you desire
If we want to run with the devil, then the devil is who will become your God
Also, Jesus created the lake of fire for the devil and his angels
Hell was not created for mankind
You have the right to salvation
The devil has no right to salvation
Jesus died for you
Not for the devil
You can spit in Jesus' face
You can call him the worst names
And he'll love you until the end which you decide to choose
Jesus loves you so much he respects your wishes
See, hell is the grave. This is what is eternal
The grave has no life
The lake of fire is not eternal
The lake of fire makes one pay for their own sins we committed in this world
Jesus wants to take this fate from you
Jesus suffered in your place if you decide to accept him and his truths
Have you ever been rejected by someone you found interesting?
Jesus finds you and me interesting, and he wants a relationship with all of us,
Jesus is in the business to give life
The devil is in the business to take life
Whatever decession you choose, life or death, Jesus will respect your wishes
You decide death rather than life with him for eternity
Then this life will be the only life you will live
Basically, make the best of it as you can
They say when most people face death, the body does all it can to keep that individual alive,
If someone was trying to take your life here on earth
You would fight back to stay alive
Even a dog would fight back to have life
So if love life, then choose Jesus
But if you hate life, stay on the path you're on
Those are the two choices we are given
No life in the hell, fire or in the grave
Basically, it like it was before you were born,
What was life before you were born ?
You didn't exist
@@echoofthevoiceinthewildern3008 So many Christian denominations disagree with your very long screed. Can you guys have a conference and iron out your beliefs? Then, I’ll give it a thorough review.
@@tech-centralusa9671 Maybe you can write Harry Potter passages in rebuttal. We can recite fantasy stories too.
As the fair lass said at the end, it's not about sin or evil being "justly" punished at all, as Red Pen guy claims. It's purely about what a person believes, and how they believe (which or course varies from one Christian denomination to another) that determines whether or not God throws them into hell. A human monster who comes to believe In Jesus on their deathbed will go to heaven, while a perfectly kind and lovely person who doesn't believe will suffer eternal punishment. Nothing just about it.
God is compassion. Therefore a kind person DOES believe in Jesus Christ in their soul, even if not in their head.
God judges our souls, not our minds.
Beside, Hell will never admit a kind person - it would the End of Hell if they did.
The damned are totally, stubbornly and eternally unkind.
The monster who repents and believes in Jesus, ceases to be a monster when, and by, doing so.
@@tonybuck1225 An terrible person "who repents and believes in Jesus" doesn't necessarily thereby become a good person. Maybe they just believe (as Christians say) that if they make an act of repentance and believe hard enough they will escape punishment, while not really changing at all.
@@tonybuck1225 I've known lots of very kind people who I assure you didn't believe in Jesus in their head or in their soul. I've also known many truly awful people who were true believers. If you were honest with yourself, I'm sure you've experienced the same thing in your life. Sorry, but your assertions are absurd.
@@tonybuck1225 Ok, I want evidence that god, heaven, hell and souls are real outside of your man made book or I don't believe you?
Thanks!
I love you kristi the way you go into detail is very reassuring for me since I still doubt myself. Thank you you’re doing a great thing. 💘
Kristi is nothing much. See....What Does the Bible Say About Hell? (Part 1 of 2)....by Spirit and Truth.
@@2fast2block She's already 1000 times more the person than you will ever be. Maybe it's time you rethink your life.
I am learning more easily because I enjoy listening to how well you unpack these difficult topics with clarity. Glad I'm subscribed.
Awesome, thank you!
You make far too much sense vis-à-vis Christian dogma and this other gentleman's explanation rings hollow. He's all sweetness and platitude but RedPenLogic's purported clarification is anything but logical. I'm a recent subscriber Kristi and my only complaint about your channel is that there aren't more of your wonderful videos to indulge. Keep up the great work!
Thanks so much for your support 😊 a lot more videos to come!
Actually she is wrong everyone knows what is a moral law it in everyone heart just like you know when you lie it’s simple a next thing GOD don’t judge you if you don’t know what you was doing wrong the problem is this woman doesn’t understand or read the Bible
How is it possible written in your heart. Does your heart say it's immoral to own slaves? If so then it's in disagreement with the bible. So where is that moral coming from?
@@sblackfox “If you expect respect from others, show it first to yourself. You can’t expect from others what you don’t give to yourself.”
@@Cain-gu5nq if you read history books you will find that those who had slaves knew what they were doing was wrong 😑 the only reason they kept doing it was because of money 💰
Thank you for pushing back... we will all push back together with you!
Your freeing people everyday
If God were real, I hope he would at least have the decency to at least look and feel ashamed and embarrassed before truth of Kristi's words.
Which aren't true, but misunderstandings; and reasonings that try to be clever, but aren't.
@@tonybuck1225 What would you claim as being not true or unreasonable?
@@tonybuck1225What did she misunderstand?
Remember it's the CHRISTIAN God, he's not the only God. Other religions around the world don't buy into this crap.
@@van3363 All gods are man-made. There's no evidence for any of them. It's a control mechanism for the feeble minded.
I'm glad you addressed that guy, all he does is give Christian deception cookie cutter answers. He's not actually thinking about what he's saying.
Going to hell is not a just punishment, punishment has to do with correction, having someone burn forever in hell is nothing more than satisfying your own vengeance with hatred, and that's not God.
I also like how this guy says that hell is the just punishment for sin, and that Jesus took our punishment for sin, that would mean Jesus would have had to been sent to hell for forever like we would have, and that didn't happen.
Anyway you cut it Cain has been suffering much longer than Hitler. Not a just punishment. Cain murdered just one man, Hitler murdered millions.
You do not understand who you are talking about, Jesus was not a ordinary man. He was life itself. His death upon the cross had the reverse effect as it would have been for us. God cannot die, but as a man he can pay the penalty of our sin. Which the Bible says the wages of sin is death. And that is not just physical death, but spiritual which is the second death. Jesus cried upon the cross, Father why have you forsaken me.
@@daviniarobbins9298 do you have independent knowledge of that, or is it something you believe?
@@tnyeh if Jesus gave his life for your sins, does it still count if he decided to live again?
@@4um360 Yes, that is the resurrection, or more bluntly our resurrection. Jesus said I have power to lay down my life and I have power to take it again.
Huge fan of your TikTok vids and now your YT vids. Glad to see you're gaining traction and a following. The breakdown you did was superb. It really baffles me that seemingly intelligent and supposedly compassionate people adopt and excuse this utterly asinine reasoning. Outside of Christianity, if anyone explained to you a penal system where people are medically kept alive so they could be tortured indefinitely, even for the most innocuous crimes, we'd intuitively know that would be sick and demented. Yet so many Christians not only believe it, but some even relish at the idea of that punishment being exacted on others. It's bonkers. 🤦🏿♂
Problem is, the idea of hell and the maniuplation the powerful use to tell the masses they are deserving of hell -- religious or like you said a earthy eternal menttal imprison type of hell? If technology advances far enough (and humans survive) they WILL TRY to justify such a hell like sentence for the worst offenders. It won't be religious but it will be the same thing. "This serial killer tortured and killed dozens! He got up on the stand and addmitted he feels no guilt and even said he would kill more if he could. So OF COURSE this techonlogy we have to trap his mind in a mental reality that is nothing but agony for millions of years is justified! Who would argue with that?!". That's just it man, this black and white, "they deserve the idea of hell" appliles to human nature in general unfortunately.
@@godfist314 Without faith it is impossible to please God/Jesus Christ. Unbelief (no faith) causes one to be condemned already. Read what Jesus says in the book of John chapter three.
You don't go to hell for your sins; you go to hell for your lack of faith in Jesus Christ. Even a person like Hitler can go to heaven if he accepts Christ but me, I go to Hell over a simple lack of faith. How is that fair and just?
I’m a ex Jehova’s Witness. I’m so happy someone like you are speaking up so clearly about the subjectivity of the Bible and religion. Your work is the work of the True “God” 😉 that universe force that wants us to evolve beyond limitation. 👏🏼👏🏼
Mormonism is not Christianity it is pretty much not Biblical at all. Also what Universe force are you talking about?
@@harrisontaylor3751 Jehova's witnesses and Mormans are not the same thing.
I think nature and the process of life is a universe force.
We have many ways out. Do you know we raise from the dead people who are in hell thus can baptist and turned into a christian without worrying about hell? Matthew 10:8 for those in hell already. And we can time travel for those who are currently alive and don't believe so...we have ways out.
My mother was devout catholic, but not in a nasty way, she would shout at me that I was going to hell once... but she didn't mind or judge gay people. The religion never stuck on me, but it still left some traces that took root in the way I'm thinking... I can imagine the Jehova's are even more of a cult, secluded, keeping outsiders really out and guarding the insiders from outside influence, frowing on contact with outsiders...
On your statement that the universe would want us to evolve... I've come to terms with the idea that nature doesn't judge, predators also need to feed their young, bacteria make you ill, but that's not because they're evil, they just want to reproduce, there is no evil intent. Nature doesn't select certain individuals and kills off others, it's just so that the best equipped manage to leverage their advantage and thrive...
I do like the statement: 'we are the eyes through which the universe observes itself'... we give meaning, we evolved empathy and build a set of rational rules on it... you could then even say that I think if there's a god it is the sum of all conscious life on earth, including many of the animals...
@@harrisontaylor3751 everyone is entitle to believe what they want to believe, if I want to speak about a universe to describe my belief to the unknown, I don’t have to explain it to you and you don’t have to believe it. Also, JW and Mormons are not the same things. Thanks.
Just discovered you yesterday, and what you are saying throughout your videos really resonates with me, even though I'm a practicing catholic. Your Adam & Eve video was spot on and so good....that story always bothered me so much. Thanks so much for your thoughtful insights, keep them coming, love hearing a different take on all this. Really enjoying your channel so far
It's not thought out, it's all made up by Kristi. See....What Does the Bible Say About Hell? (Part 1 of 2)....by Spirit and Truth.
@@2fast2blockI form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do all these things. [8] Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
@@undrwatropium3724 that does not go with 1 John 1:5, James 1:7 and others. The bible has about 212 figures of speech, one is the Idiom of Permission. God made all, Adam gave power he had to Lucifer and his angels. To be brief, look at Ex. 4:21, 7:3. It was Pharaoh though that did it to his OWN heart and the news Moses gave, God knew it would have that effect...Ex. 7:22, 8:15,19, 9:34, etc. You though don't like the truth.
@@2fast2block 🏆 for the mental gymnastics
@@undrwatropium3724 NO, it was clear and it was clear your verse showed you don't know what you're talking about in light of how it was meant.
How can infinite punishment for finite sins be just? It can't because we will always eventually reach a point where the punishment surpasses the crimes committed.
How about infinite forgiveness just for believing? How is this just?
It’s almost like this whole game is about power and money…
@@galens2543 ... while a lifetime spent in the selfless service of others counts for nothing at all!
@@rhrrtt Agreed. I’ll live a good life, helping to elevate others, under my own terms and be confident in that. That will be enough for any reasonable deity.
@@galens2543 Yes ... and an unreasonable deity will pretty much do whatever he wants anyway, regardless of any promises he might have made.
the "atonement" that xtians say was fulfilled through geesus . . . . . is fake!!
he did NOT take eternal punishment!!
There IS no "lamb" being punished right now as we speak!!
all geesus did was lose 1 weekend. & even then there's so much about his "supposed" death & resurrection that is simply just fabricated & conjured up.
There is literally zero proof of any of those events that xtians claim took place. & even still . . . xtians say that it was 3 days & 3 nights
. . . . . uh . . . . . No it wasn't!! Even their own book says it wasn't 3 days & 3 nights.
The xtian story is fabricated , conjured up , mangled & butchered
Walk away from it
Thank you so much.. Kristy..your very wise for your age..don't let anyone try to stop you like your family..or friends ❤❤
You're a smart cookie, Kristi and it's great that you overcame the propaganda and social pressures to see the reality behind the scam of religion. It's about control and the promotion of blind obedience... to other people. But the fact that you are helping others to see reality... that's pure gold and the world owes you endless gratitude for that.
My friend, it's too bad that you are engaging in the same kind of black-and-white thinking you decry, as you toss all "religion" in the same trash bin. Have you fully explored EVERY religion in existence? The fact that fundamentalist Christianity is unsupportable bullshit says NOTHING at all that can be generalized to ALL religions.
King Henry the eighth said religion is for peasants not royalty
The words of Christ are not a scam. How dare you! You mock the words of eternal life, the only hope for the human race?
What do you have to offer the world? Are you an atheist? If so, then you came from nothing and are going to nothing, but you have 'something' to say? I hope you will make this right with God before your day in court. God will judge the world in righteousness. Every lie, every treason, will be brought to light. Heaven is real, but so is hell. It won't bring the temperature down one degree simply because you don't believe. Christ died on a Cross because He loves you. He desires your friendship. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@@kenshiloh , the scam is getting people to believe they have "the words of Christ". There's no such thing, Ken. Do you think the Bible quotes Jesus? Do you ACTUALLY think that? The Jesus character of the Bible spoke Aramaic, not English. And guess what? No one followed him around recording the things he said and did. Don't believe me? Try a Bible scholar with a Ph.D. in New Testament Studies!
- "𝑆𝑡𝑖𝑙𝑙, 𝑡𝑜 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑦𝑒𝑡 𝑓𝑢𝑟𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 𝑜𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑖𝑠𝑠𝑢𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑒𝑣𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑤𝑒 𝑑𝑜 𝑛𝑜𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒, 𝐼 𝑛𝑒𝑒𝑑 𝑡𝑜 𝑠𝑡𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑤𝑒 𝑑𝑜 𝑛𝑜𝑡 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑎 𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑙𝑒 𝑟𝑒𝑓𝑒𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝐽𝑒𝑠𝑢𝑠 𝑏𝑦 𝑎𝑛𝑦𝑜𝑛𝑒 - 𝑝𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑛, 𝐽𝑒𝑤, 𝑜𝑟 𝐶ℎ𝑟𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑖𝑎𝑛 - 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑤𝑎𝑠 𝑎 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑚𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑎𝑟𝑦 𝑒𝑦𝑒𝑤𝑖𝑡𝑛𝑒𝑠𝑠, 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑐𝑜𝑟𝑑𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑠 ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑑𝑖𝑑." -- 𝑩𝒂𝒓𝒕 𝑫. 𝑬𝒉𝒓𝒎𝒂𝒏
How does that grab you, Kenny? Not what your church is telling you? Hmmm, I wonder which one is collecting hundreds of billions of dollars each year telling their version. I wonder why NO ONE has been able to show Dr. Ehrman to be wrong.
Do you think we have the writings of people who knew Jesus, heard Jesus speak, or at least saw Jesus? NAME ONE!
We have...
• Not one word written by Jesus
• Not one word about Jesus from any witness
• Not one word about Jesus written in the time of Jesus
• Not even one credibly sourced reference to Jesus
• No inscriptions to Jesus from the time of Jesus
• No monuments to Jesus from the time of Jesus
• No artifacts for Jesus from the time of Jesus
Now, would you like to try again? I've read over 80-books on theology, many from highly accredited Bible scholars, mostly focused on Christianity. I've studied theology for more than 25-years and if what you've shown so far is an indication of what you can offer... I can "BIBLE" circles around you.
Have a great day!
@@kenshiloh
Nonsense. Keep your delusions to yourself. You only believe this because you were brainwashed to believe it. If you were born in a different culture or time period you would believe in a different god. So stop acting like the thing you were indoctrinated to believe in obviously real. It isn’t.
Just today I was thinking about how the whole concept of hell makes no sense... How are you going to feel pain for eternity if the body (the one we know feels pain) stays in the physical world? We also know that third degree burns can damage the nerve endings that make you feel pain. If the soul also feels pain, how come we don't feel anything when we go under general anesthesia? Or is the pain of the soul activated when you die?
And thus I went into a rabbit whole of thought 😂
If you asked these questions to a pastor he'd tell you you're thinking too much and it'll all make perfect sense in the end, you just have to have faith and stop thinking and being logical and asking hard questions 😂
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 My husband is an agnostic atheist and he told me point blank _"you can't explain things that are in separate categories, therefore you can't explain fantasy with logic. According to the bible in the apocalypse when Jesus comes to reign the world, dead people will be resurrected (body and all) and then they will go to the judgement, so you're supposed to go to heaven and hell with your body"_
And I'm still here thinking... But our bodies decompose, how's *_that_* gonna work? 😂
Heaven doesn't make any sense either. Probably why no believer can explain exactly what it will be like.
All you get are useless platitudes.
@@SaraHinata
You literally have to believe in MAGIC 🎩 ✨️
To believe religions nonsense
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 once you go dark, you never come back! My brain is free to ask questions. There's no way for me to sit in a sermon without going through the motions in my head. That'll be tortuous 😂
You dont have free will
If you dont have a choice in the matter of believing or not
And if you dont you will be punished
Its like putting a piece of candy infront of a child and saying i will beat you if you take the candy and i will beat you if you dont and then say the child got a choice
That’s like saying you don’t have a choice to shoot and rob a person. You can shoot him and go to prison, or you can make the right choice and not do it 🤷♂️
@@baseball_dude1363 .
No, not the same thing. It would be more like a judge setting you up to commit a crime and just waiting for it to happen, so they can put you in prison.
@@grahvis It's called entrapment. Amazingly, our flawed human justice system is far more fair than this God of theirs. Weird, huh.
@@lindysvloglife The mean Calvinist god. I'm Catholic, our understanding is different.
@@Lerian_V Nah. I've read the Old Testament, same hateful vengeful misogynist genocidal god figure that all the Abrahamic religions 'worship' no matter the label.
I'll pass, thanks. And my point stands, no matter the label, it is the same god figure springing from the Old Testament that told his people to commit genocide, rape women and girls, etc etc etc., then presumes to pass judgement on the rest of us.
You can cherry pick the bible all you want to, the rest of us see through the bs and hypocrisy.
btw, Eve didn't know right from wrong until she ate the fruit. Therefore she could not have known it was wrong to eat in the first place.
and if god already knew he was sending jesus to be crucified, that proves he knows things before they happen ... so he already knew that eve would fail this test. so what does that say about him? don't blame the mouse for getting eaten by the snake when u put the mouse in the box with the snake
@@dagg310 Also, he built humans flawed on purpose. He did not give us perfect strength of will, or the ability to perfectly resist temptation, or the ability to perfectly set aside curiosity. He built significant flaws into our software. He set us up to fail right from the start. It's a feature, not a bug.
@@mr.mediocregamer9653 Judaism evolved over a long period of time. As a result some parts of the Old Testament depict versions of God that are somewhat at odds with others, and occasionally preserves stories that don’t make logical sense. So I think it’s a mistake to treat all parts of the Bible as equally literal. I mean, I get why theologians and preachers do that, but if thinks like The Fall of Man and Cain and Abel are fables, they did have a meaning originally, and it was considered important, or they would not have been preserved.
So I don’t think we can take the fall literally,a nd I also don’t think we can take modern religious interpretations of it literally because those kinds of stories predate our concept of God.
In his novel, “Ishmael,” Ian Quinn makes a reasonably solid argument that the Garden of Eden represents a transition from a hunter/gatherer society to an agrarian one, but as told by people after the fact trying to understand what happened, but not quite remembering it.
Excellent point. If Christians really believed that and wanted the fewest people in hell, then they would have to let Christianity die out. However, to do that they would have to disobey the bible's commandments to go out and preach the gospel, thereby condemning themselves to hell.
Yeah, the most loving thing a parent could do to their infant - according to the bible - would be to end their lives. Skip the tribulations of earth and go straight to heaven. Amazing, isn't it?
@@Finckelstein BIBLE is the only book which:
heals, guides, judge, warns, helps.
Bible guides souls out from Babylon.
Bible helps to let go from Babylonian entertainments.
Bible helps us see, what has value.
Bible fills souls with knowledge, with peace.
Bible clears out future, for both, for the saved and for the lost.
Bible gives us stories from which to learn, and through which GOD warns us, the generations lived after.
Don+t stay muslim, catholic, Hindu, new ager, atheists, ignorant, satanic, Mormons,
dont be a thief and a robber.
John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Religions are masonic lies, false ways into heaven which masons have made.
Follow not nor believe masons, who give you lies after lies.
Seek out CHRIST, follow HIM and leave lies behind and your old life in the BABYLON:
Revelation 17:2
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Revelation 18:3
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
That’s not how sin works.
@harrisontaylor3751 So explain to me, please, how sin works. I've never understood the concept that I must follow what some ancient deity says is good or bad. Even if he was real, he would be an absentee father. He seems to strangely interact with humans less and less as our ability to detect him increases more and more. And I want my morality to be based on evaluating choices based on its effect on sentient beings. I think if you are only blindly following some dictate from a god to be much less moral then if you are actually engaged in seeking and evaluating what are the best actions for mankind.
How do you know there is a hell
This is a very good video. I'm glad I subscribed.
We won’t be glad on the Day of Judgement
@@harrisontaylor3751 I'm not worried about it. If the Christian's god is real (and that's a big "if"), then I have committed way less sin than God. I have never committed genocide, never owned slaves, never condoned incest, and never murdered anyone, but the Christian's god has done all of these things and more. So I think I will be fine.
Excellent video!! Towards the end you brought up that essentially the only crime judged by God is the one of not worshipping him. I've had discussions with fanatics on social media and bring up that according to this doctrine Jeffery Dahmer is in heaven while his victims are being tortured forever in Hell, which I find abhorrent
it takes a special level of indocterination to think that eternal torture is a just punishment for a finite crime
Eternal torture is not a just punishment for _any_ crime. That is why the Bible nowhere threatens us with eternal conscious torment. Churches do. The Bible does not.
@@IsaacNussbaum Yes, we can all pretend that Revelation isn't in the bible. But it is. Is it the musings of a mentally ill person? Yes. So why did god allow the musings of a mentally ill person to become part of his book? :-)
@Shebathebigcat *"So I'm not sure why Isaac thinks it's not there."* I am not sure why you would bring it up in a discussion of eternal conscious torment but yes, the Lake of Fire is discussed in the Bible.
@@lepidoptera9337 *"...we can all pretend that Revelation isn't in the bible."* We could but I wouldn't recommend it.
@@IsaacNussbaum And, yet, that is what you are doing. You are not even following your own recommendations. :-)
C: Are you a Christian?
A: No, I'm an atheist
C: Then you'll go to hell for your sins
A: I don't believe in sins, and I haven't committed any crimes either. I'm a good law abiding citizen
C: You're still going to hell !!! YOU are a SINNER !!!
A: (yawns) Yeah...whatever. btw, guess who is also there in hell?
C: Satan?
A: Well, besides Satan. Someone we can be sure, absolutely sure is going to be there in hell....
C: Who??? Tell me???
A: Let me help you. What are the properties of a tri-omni god?
C: Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient
A: That's right. Your god is everywhere, including hell. We'll see him there
C: Uh...uuhhh......uugghh
curious about your assertion that you don't believe in sins. Would you say it is ok to torture babies for fun?
🤯 that’s all I’m gonna say
What do you mean by good?
No. There is no justification for eternal torment. Period.
How can God say, “You will either love me or you will go to hell” and then call that free will? We cannot and do not love God on our own. This can be seen in every day life. We live in a world that does not really want to know God. This is no surprise because the Bible already says, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD. Romans 3:11 We Must Believe In Christ A man or woman goes to hell because they do not believe in Jesus Christ. Loving God is not the issue. Yes, God does command us to love others, but it is never a requirement to enter heaven. Why? Because we cannot love the way God wants us to love without His help. Romans 5:5 tells us that God’s Holy Spirit gives us His love. After we become His child, He helps us to love Himself and others. . . . Because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. Romans 5:5 Because God Loves Us he Warns Us By telling us what we must do to escape hell, God has not only been honest with us: He has shown us that He loves us. This question assumes that God has a choice. It assumes that God is able to honor whatever choice we want to make. The question assumes that God is like us. “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.” Isaiah 55:7-8 We are called to respond to Jesus. We are called to believe. The major fact about God that we miss is that He is holy and we are not. He has told us that evil cannot live in His presence. God calls us to believe in His son for the forgiveness of our sins so that He can declare us to be holy. God calls us to trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins. Jesus showed us that He loved us by dying for us. The only way that God could help us escape hell is by having Jesus die for us so that we could do one of the simplest things on earth - believe or trust Jesus to forgive our own sins! There is no proof of an afterlife, but the bible has changed more lives than any other book. And there is no way you can be 100% certain there is not. So why take any chances? The Holy Spirit is the one who transforms your heart and mind, and fills you with the love for God. But you must receive it with faith and a humble heart. That is why we are all given free will to choose. I pray the Holy Spirit changes your heart someday before your time is up. Jesus warns us to choose wisely: “Enter through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow is the road that leads to life, and only a few find it”. Be blessed
You are right. There is no justification for eternal torment. That is why the Bible nowhere threatens us with eternal torment. Churches do. The Bible does not.
Great job with the content and presentation.
thank you!
So few people are real thinkers, you are one of the few.
Her entire argument is applying todays societal norms to debunk the bible as if god needs to comply with those norms💀 “real thinker” lol sure
I have always found the hell concept very disturbing.
1. If Hell is a punishment for disobeying God and Satan would torture you for that, would it not make Satan a servant of God, doing his will ? I mean, God wants to punish you, and Satan is doing just that, right ?
2. If Satan is not the servant of God but his enemy, why would he torture someone who had done harm to his enemy ? I personally think he would congratulate that person from "breaking free" from the rules, no ?
Very confusing.
Hey, don't bring logic into this... Stories aren't supposed to make sense, they're just meant to provide a shared cultural background. ^^
Satan doesn't torture or punish anyone.
The moment one believes in Satan, Sin, Hell, Judgement... your screwed!
As the story of Job demonstrates, satan works at god's behest
Very nice observation. When will Christians start thinking for themselves? Are Christians possessed by some evil entity?
I had the same questions about hell as a kid. It just didn't seem right, what about people who never heard about the bible and going to hell. Even as a young guy it just felt messed up, because it is!
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 When we're kids, our minds are not so polluted by what our society says we should think and feel. It's not a critique; it's an observation of an experience this person had. It rang true for them. If it doesn't ring true for you, that's your own business. What does ring true for you?
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 why do you come here EVERY DAY hinging on her every word,,if as you say,,she is easily debunked.. Wouldnt that get boring ?? Maybe you are lusting after her and even if it was to discredit her, NO ONE ever likes or appreciates your comments. You are one heck of a Narcissist,, thinking yourself to be so much clever 'or than you are., maybe you should find a new outlet (make your own videos since you have so much to say and see how well that goes for you)
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 scammer you are like paul
Hebrews 11:6
“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
who said they went to hell? God is just, if they haven't heard of the gospel, then they might be spared. i don't know what happens, but we can always hope for the best
hell is for the devil and his squad
Also, we have various types of evidence for biblical events, if anyone is interested
Absolutely love your content!! I deconstructed over a year ago. You’re putting voice to the very thoughts I’ve had on Christianity and religion as a whole.
🫶
@jezebelvibes your videos are well needed, so much misinformation out there and it's becoming more important for people take the time to really analyze why they believe things
I've watched a few of your videos now and I must say, I love your content. You are very likeable and understanding and thoughtful but most importantly you've been there, seen it, got the T-Shirt and been spat out the other side!!
I take my hat off and bow before you. Fantastic stuff, keep up the great work.
Good stuff! Well said!!!!
The imagery of God as a judge that promises not to send you to prison as long as you shower praise and admiration on him turned my stomach. In real life, we find judges that take bribes to be reprehensible, but when God does it, this is perfectly just? Thank you so much for making these videos.
great point
That imagery is incorrect. God clearly desires authenticity. He refused the sacrifices of the Israelites quite often because those sacrifices were given with insincere hearts. He even said he prefers someone to be cold to him rather than lukewarm. He can't stand lukewarmness. Fake Christians bother him much more than authentic atheists. Remember Jesus's #1 enemies were fake religious people.
The image you're describing is just incorrect.
The image you described is very correct.
@@theboombody If Christianity needs "authenticity"; belief is not chosen; only felt; god is punishing people for something blatantly out of their control; that is a dictator/fascist/evil what have you.
I'm an ExMuslim and have been watching your content on TikTok for a while. I can relate so much to your criticisms of Christianity with my views on Islam and especially this paticular video. Thank you for making this RUclips Channel! 💯
More amazing food for thought. Thank you.
You always articulate so well Kristi. Fantastically, explained!
Really enjoying your content, thanks Kristi. 🙂
You thank her for lying to you?
@@harrisontaylor3751 I see her as open-minded, just requiring, you know, actual evidence.
I like your content cuz it's allowing discussion and empowering to the audience. :) thanks Kristi
Like your content, you explain your reasoning very well, I have thought the same thoughts for a long time over many of the same things you go over. Great video and hope you do more new stuff soon
What does Hell accomplish anyway? There's a finality to it as once you're there you can never leave. You're there just suffer forever and ever in the most horrible torment you can imagine. What is the purpose of this? Is it to make God feel better? Is sending somebody there really the actions of something that is supposed to be the ultimate being of benevolence?
all fantastic questions
Sounds more like the ultimate saddist than the ultimate being of benevolence.
It's purpose was for the devil and his angels. Unfortunately Satan is so wicked that he wants to take as many people there with him as possible. That makes Satan feel better, not God. God would much rather have everyone come to repentance and have a relationship with Him. Instead, they reject their Creator.
2 Peter 3:9 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Matthew 25:41 KJV - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Logic wins again! Excellent video!!
🫶
lol so “logic wins again” but you believe the Big Bang theory 😂
@@baseball_dude1363 I am assuming you don't accept the "Big Bang theory". So, what is wrong with the theory?
Please note that acceptance or rejection of the "Big Bang theory" doesn't change the vacuousness of God claims.
@@MyContext the theory is more far fetched then somebody being responsible for creating everything. The odds of the “big bang” happening and creating everything you know are in the hundreds of trillions (if not much more) most scientists say there is no God and the Big Bang is responsible, but they have no real evidence or documentation. That being said, at least historians and scholars (even if they’re an atheist) can tell Us that Christ existed.
@@baseball_dude1363I love the Big Bang theory it was made by a Catholic Priest to attest further to the glory of God.😅
Excellent video. You are a refreahing and clear new voice.
Thank you for watching!
this awesome girl is a true vision of what America looks like to me. love it, thanks Kristi
"What am I afraid of? Whom did I betray? In what medieval kingdom does justice work this way?" David Bazan
Loving your analogies and analysis of scripture and belief.
Appeal to emotion, or argumentum ad passiones, is an informal fallacy characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.
An appeal to fear also known as fear-mongering, (argumentum ad metum or argumentum in terrorem), is a fallacy in which a person attempts to create support for an idea by attempting to increase fear towards an alternative. An appeal to fear is a common tactic in religions, marketing, politics, and media.
join us here to shred these communist manipulators
Hi Kristi, love your videos! This person also made a video about how Christians are not "picking and choosing" which bible verse to follow. Would love to see you make a response to that video too. Keep it up!
If Heaven is such a wonderful place, why does God have to add an additional punishment if you miss out on it? Why would God have to add Hell as a punishment? It's BS!
And hes all knowing meaning HE CHOOSES NOT YOU. Talk about bs smh
@@Blixxerd Oh really? Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime? I don't think just thinking a thought of lust is the same as killing someone. But in God's eyes, we all get the same punishment. Like I said, it's all BS!
So I am going to hell because I do not believe but murderers, rapists and pedophiles can go to heaven if believe....that's so screwed up
John 3:16 is a very well known scripture.But read all of John chapter 3 and it will answer your question.
God's standard for justice in the old testament was an eye for an eye. How would eternal torment in hell for say stealing a candy bar harmonize with God's own standard? And where is the mercy that the Bible repeatedly says God is rich in? Mercy in a judicial setting involves the judge exercising discretion to pardon or mitigate punishment for a crime. And they sometimes do (without requiring a scapegoat to take the punishment on behalf of the offender,). So God is less merciful than humans?
Then explain why he sent Jesus to die on the cross.
That was a really well thought out video that made so much sense!
Maybe my Christian friends wouldn't agree, but I see it this way: "you go where you belong" in eternity (whatever eternity is). It's magical thinking to hold that an evil person who lived a life of anger & bitterness will sudden enter the gates of heaven after their body dies because God is so forgiving. How is their soul/spirit ready or willing to encounter the Divine? That doesn't mean there is an eternal hellfire for everyone who isn't a Christian. But a healthy respect for the idea of divine justice is a strong incentive to live a good life. Some writings that are helpful to me on the heaven/hell issue: C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce, and Sadhu Sundar Singh, The Spiritual World.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts!
"It's magical thinking to hold that an evil person who lived a life of anger & bitterness will sudden enter the gates of heaven after their body dies because God is so forgiving. How is their soul/spirit ready or willing to encounter the Divine? "
I agree 100% they're probably not ready or willing; that's why in Orthodox Christianity purgatory is talked about. It's for "purging" what is impure. Even though sins are forgiven, and one will get to heaven, and though God extends mercy through forgiveness, justice demands some payment by the individual. After death, if a debt is still owed, the soul goes to Purgatory which is a kind of suffering, but unlike damnation, the suffering of purgatory ends when the punishment is served and then upon exit from purgatory, eternity is spent in heaven.
@@LouisGiliberto people who believe in gods and religions like christianity will be in a shock when they will not see what they expect when they die.
@@ETERNALCYCLES Yes, a lot of people believe that we won't see a religious ending. I support their right to believe that.
@@LouisGiliberto I.e. it's basically Kama Loca or Bardo from Buddhism...
Just done a bit differently, and with probably, more branding, and maybe... whip-ping?
At least, Dante style.
Don’t forget not only do you go to jail but all your kids do too.
Up to the 3rd and/or 4th generation... This bit always seemed stupidly unjust to me.
Punishments at least have explanations behind them. Oftentimes if you discipline a child, it is meant to make them learn from their mistakes. Hell is not that. The person is sent there to burn forever and they can't do anything about it.
They don't WANT to do anything about it - they would rather burn than repent.
Even if they just shouted for mercy - or just "Help !" - God would rescue them.
Actually, discipline is where one learns to not make a particular mistake again. The term “discipline”, in fact, means “instruction” and “learning”. Even within the secular justice system, the sentence is meant to teach the offender the lesson of not committing a particular crime again, and so is rightly considered discipline.
Outright punishment, on the other hand, teaches no lesson whatsoever. It serves merely to inflict pain upon the offender and give the administrator his or her jollies. Such is rightly called torture. By way of an example, simply consider the torture inflicted at Guantanamo Bay and in the so-called detention centers in Iraq. Those on the receiving end of such treatment learned no lesson whatsoever while those meting out the torture were gleeful. I can speak only for myself, but I would call that sadistic. That lasted only a certain period of time.
However, according to the Bible, God intends to mete out similar punishment-and even worse, including fire, brimstone and maggots-to those he says make the “choice” to reject him, and that for eternity-as though whether to exercise faith in his existence or not were a choice-while he laughs at their anguish. That’s, not Divine justice, but, rather, Divine sadism! And for what purpose? According to the Bible, he will do this for the vindication of his name. So, Divine vindictiveness is added to Divine sadism. If any of us were so vindictive and sadistic as to torture people, we would, at best, find ourselves permanently in a room with stripped sunshine and padded walls. Yet, if the most vile, disgusting and violent character in all of fiction is said to do it, he is called “the Judge of all the earth” who does what is right.-Genesis 18:26.
@@thomash.schwed3662 Makes sense. Meant to say discipline instead of punishment there but lopped both together because some use that interchangeably.
@@tonybuck1225 And how do you know that? If anything, who is the one who makes the rules on who goes to Hell? If you said God, then yes, he does. From what I am seeing, if a god exists, he created people Fully knowing they would be imperfect and wind up burning in Hell for eternity. God could have created mankind good without them having the inclination to do evil. He could have created the universe in a way that sin does not happen if he hated it so much. Instead, of all the universes he could have chosen from, he chooses the one that he knows that mankind would fail and become "wicked" which would require him to send half of humanity to Hell to burn forever for the most trivial of reasons. That is not a loving god.
Which makes it gross how some equate God to being like a parent. Would you leave your own child to burn in the basement if they disobeyed?
@LeoB I know by virtue of the Church's teachings. Which I believe to be true.
The worldview is that of the Christian faith; it isn't mine, since I didn't devise it.
Absolutely brilliant video. You explained this topic better than even Matt Dillahunty.
It's worse than that. A devout Orthodox Jew that never sinned is still "stained" by original sin and damned to hell while a Christian child murderer that repents and asks forgiveness goes to heaven. How is that a just system? I'd be pissed if I actually believed any of it.
Believe and receive, doubt and do without.
You do a great job of showing the confident presenters to simply be presenters of nonsense. This style of working to get people to think is something that I really appreciate. I suspect your relatability makes you even more effective for those that happen upon your material who might not otherwise agree.
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This particular video reminded me of a DarkMatter2525 video:
Christian Justice
ruclips.net/video/VWAUhadJzTk/видео.html
Thank you for sharing! I'll have to check that video out!
@@christophergibson7155 The Bible glorifies genocide, human sacrifice and the rape of children.
@@christophergibson7155
You would really need to make a case for the claim of deception. The following questions would seem to be relevant to whatever case being made with regard to her presentation.
1. What is your criteria for what is and what is not moral?
2. What (if anything) is your delineation between what is torture versus what is punishment?
3. What is your criteria/concept of the idea of competence and responsibility?
4. Do you consider cognitively impaired people to be responsible and/or competent with regard to the idea of being judged?
@@christophergibson7155 how is it deception? She explained salvation and how it isn’t just. Where have we been deceived. We sin and Jesus takes the punishment if you say a lil prayer. Is that justice?
@@christophergibson7155
[Deception defined is when you believe something to be true when in fact it is a lie.]
That is NOT the common definition of deception.
Most understand deception to be the act of presenting something in a way that results in another being mislead as to what is correct. Deception is not the same as lying since NONE of what is being presented need be a lie but rather it leaves another misinformed and/or misdirected as to what is the case.
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[#1. Morality are universal laws by which God Himself governs mankind.]
Laws can be instances of what is directed under a moral criteria, but does not denote what is being used as the criteria. I am asking for the criteria for what denotes what is moral and what denotes what is immoral.
[#2. Punishment is justice administered for moral law breaking. Torture is to inflict severe pain on any individual immorally.]
Do you consider killing a person for working on a particular day to be a just punishment?
[3. Competence is the capability to handle situations with confidence. Responsibility is taking personal acceptance for your actions or decisions]
Given your definition, it seems that you would not understand how God claims are failures due to the deficiencies observed of reality with respect to the idea.
The idea of competence as it is commonly understood is about a level of proficiency/excellence given various points of understanding with regard to capabilities. The fact of our imperfections is itself evidence against the idea of a supposed perfect entity.
[4. Only God knows the cognitive state of each individual. ]
This did not answer my question.
*Do you consider cognitively impaired people to be responsible and/or competent with regard to the idea of being judged?*
I hate the argument that we are deserving of hell because we choose to sin. For the sake of argument, let's pretend Christianity is true. Original sin makes everyone born a sinner. So it is not the sin we may commit in our lives that determines if we go to hell, since we are already guilty of being born a sinner. The punishment for one sin is the same as for a million sins. So sins we commit in our lives has no bearing on being sent to hell. It is only belief in god and religiously kissing god's butt that determines if we go to hell or not.
@@Mar-dk3mp how do you know all that?
You rock my socks Kristi! Thank you! Thinking of starting a channel called Justice for Job! 😅
If God is omnipresent everywhere at all times , then how can people ever be seperate from God, considering God is everywhere?
Only thing I would push back on is that a solely punitive justice system should NOT be the goal. I would much rather it focus on rehabilitating and educating criminals as to why their actions are detrimental to society, as well as acknowledging the socio-economic conditions that cultivate criminal action in the first place. If we fixate on punishment, it only incentivises criminals to avoid getting caught and makes us no more moral than an abusive parent.
I agree. I would prefer rehabilitation, but the argument being made is that sin must be punished- so I'm working within that framework.
I have very unpopular views on justice and punishment. I would much prefer we work to rehabilitate those who break the laws for sure.
God offers WAY MORE than just rehabilitation. He offers JUSTIFICATION as well as RECONCILIATION, too!
You commit a crime and society will mostly likely ALWAYS hold it against you. Not God!
@@alexwhite2330 No, PEOPLE offer rehab in the name of gods. Do you think it matters which god? And why is it that some folks can be rehab'd by education and compassion without a god? Also, what are you suggesting is being justified and/or reconciled?
This is why Kristi and I advocate for CHANGING society for the better. Is there a way to change God for the better or does your god not do the fiery torture basement when folks displease them?
I think it is funny how Christians love for justice to be served. But what they don't understand that Justice, Justitia, or Themes is a Goddess. So they are literally serving a goddess when they wish for this. As many of their traditions are based on pre Christian deities.
What is that goofy crap? Justice is justice.
I'm a English learner, the content of your Chanel is very good and interesting, I'll use it to improve my comprehension. ❤
There's something about stating that eternal torture is good and fair calmly and with a big smile on your face that is so creepy to me
Big same