Everything I've Ever Wanted to Say on the Problem of Evil/Suffering! | My Rebuttal to

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  • Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 3,4 тыс.

  • @MindShift-Brandon
    @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +273

    So happy to be covering this topic fully finally. Thanks for being here for it!

    • @TonyLambregts
      @TonyLambregts 2 месяца назад +10

      @@MindShift-Brandon thank you for doing these.

    • @patrickthorpe422
      @patrickthorpe422 2 месяца назад +5

      Keep up the great content brother!

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +2

      @@patrickthorpe422 Thank you, will try!

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +2

      @@TonyLambregts Its always my pleasure!

    • @rokkitserjun
      @rokkitserjun 2 месяца назад +19

      This video was definitely a Magnum Opus on the subject. I think it was so nice of @imbeggar to do such a comprehensive video of the lousy apologetics, allowing you to shoot them down so succinctly. It was like he was setting up the pins just right for you to bowl a strike.

  • @bobbarron1920
    @bobbarron1920 2 месяца назад +662

    If boring means no disease, no poverty, no torture, no suffering, no starvation, give me boring.

    • @thing1thing2themediamaniac43
      @thing1thing2themediamaniac43 2 месяца назад +36

      DAMN RIGHT

    • @aliyyenman6181
      @aliyyenman6181 2 месяца назад +22

      Well said!!!

    • @greg-op2jh
      @greg-op2jh 2 месяца назад +13

      💯

    • @davidgalvez5341
      @davidgalvez5341 2 месяца назад +27

      Remember that Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

    • @SteveLomas-k6k
      @SteveLomas-k6k 2 месяца назад +10

      God created a world with no suffering, no pain, no grief or tragedy. And that world still exists to day.. for jellyfish.
      Hence they experience no joy, love, motivation either.
      Would you trade? Me neither.

  • @alexanderbean7737
    @alexanderbean7737 2 месяца назад +861

    Imagine telling a grieving parent who lost their child in the most horrific way possible "hey, at least it ain't boring!"

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +150

      right?! It's infuriating.

    • @BluStarGalaxy
      @BluStarGalaxy 2 месяца назад +137

      They might as well say, "You wouldn't appreciate your remaining kids as much if you didn't lose one."

    • @discontinuedmodel232
      @discontinuedmodel232 2 месяца назад +65

      @BenJones-d8p Or imagine saying "your child is in heaven PRAISING GOD for all eternity - and totally forgot about God letting them suffer a painful early death!" 😇

    • @archbishoprichardforceginn9338
      @archbishoprichardforceginn9338 2 месяца назад +5

      Anem, Gord knew that Perfection would be too boring

    • @chameleonx9253
      @chameleonx9253 2 месяца назад +15

      ​@BenJones-d8pYour child's biomass will be reabsorbed into the ecosystem and redistributed into new biological forms. In that sense, she will have an effectively infinite number of afterlives, provided life continues to exist in some form that's linked to the Earth's chain of being.

  • @clarkkent2379
    @clarkkent2379 2 месяца назад +59

    When I had cancer, it sure wasn't boring, but I'd trade every moment of that excitement for nice, boring health and ease.

  • @Ywabag
    @Ywabag 2 месяца назад +723

    Calling a world without suffering "boring" is cartoonishly evil

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +75

      Agreed!

    • @christasimon9716
      @christasimon9716 2 месяца назад +86

      So either eternal heaven is boring or it contains suffering.

    • @martin2289
      @martin2289 2 месяца назад +7

      In the case of the subject video, quite literally so.

    • @TaeyxBlack
      @TaeyxBlack 2 месяца назад +52

      @@christasimon9716yup. it’s one of many situations where apologists forget all of the elements of their belief system. they’ll make all these excuses about how the earth needed evil in order to be perfect or we’d just be robots or something, but then go on and on about how great it will be once we get to the place with no evil. it’s like they get amnesia. you realize you’re trying to sell an afterlife with no evil to me, right? in your efforts to explain away the problem of suffering, you’ve cut the legs off your sales pitch

    • @Deconstructures
      @Deconstructures 2 месяца назад +21

      It really is. The apologetic here seems to be that most sapient beings are going to suffer for eternity because God finds that interesting.

  • @smoldragon339
    @smoldragon339 2 месяца назад +144

    Funny how a perfect world without free will is existentially boring when an apologist is justifying the existence of suffering, but NOT existentially boring when the apologist is justifying the concept of Heaven

    • @johnfauxnom4221
      @johnfauxnom4221 2 месяца назад +9

      Don't worry, there will be cancer in Heaven, too. Gotta keep things interesting!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 2 месяца назад +1

      Alright so yes the guy he’s reacting to is bad at philosophy.
      I however have a better explanation of how to reconcile a word of suffering with the existence of God, if you would be interested.

    • @smoldragon339
      @smoldragon339 2 месяца назад +4

      ​@@andrewwilson9183 Well first, we should establish what you mean by "God", as everyone has their own definition of what God/a god is. So when you say "God", specifically what are you referring to? And also, does your definition of God include omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 2 месяца назад

      @@smoldragon339
      Yes, that is what I mean when speaking of God

    • @smoldragon339
      @smoldragon339 2 месяца назад +3

      @@andrewwilson9183 I asked two separate questions, and you've only answered the second one. I still don't know what your actual definition of God is, merely that that definition includes omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence.

  • @AdamKlownzinger
    @AdamKlownzinger 2 месяца назад +196

    A perfect God would require no apologetics

    • @Karessertin103
      @Karessertin103 2 месяца назад +8

      this is such an underrated comment

    • @newme1589
      @newme1589 2 месяца назад +4

      That argument doesnt make sense because you cant describe a perfect God because you dont have all the knowledge and capability. Anything resembling "perfection" coming from you would be heavily tainted (and everyone, im not attacking you haha)
      Also, this perfect God gave us freedom of will ... So if someone wants to be an apologetic, they can.
      I just didnt understand your argument, im sorry

    • @shaqyardie8105
      @shaqyardie8105 2 месяца назад +12

      @@newme1589 Where does it say that god gave us free will/freedom of will in the bible? I'm not convinced that this god gave us anything because I'm not even convinced that this god even exists.

    • @JeffryBozes
      @JeffryBozes 2 месяца назад +2

      @@newme1589 why do you believe in free will? Just an assumption? You should be careful with those.

    • @moon_wobble7782
      @moon_wobble7782 2 месяца назад +10

      A perfect god would communicate more clearly and not need the interpreters to speak for him and get it all mixed up.
      Also, why would I only show myself in one form in one small part of the world at a time when documentation is lowest

  • @MrDumdas
    @MrDumdas 2 месяца назад +254

    05:00 so god is entertained by our suffering. Sounds like a super loving dude.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +49

      To be fair i think his point was its boring for us, the bots, but its just as dumb

    • @MrDumdas
      @MrDumdas 2 месяца назад +17

      ​@MindShift-Brandon ohhh, that actually would make more sense. Still a bad argument, but seems like a better point than "god delights in our suffering"... which actually does sound familiar for some reason 🤔.
      I guess I'd wonder how we'd even be capable of getting bored if we're perfect.

    • @sauron69447
      @sauron69447 2 месяца назад +6

      @@MrDumdas So much for being the God of love his followers claim he is

    • @vitriolicAmaranth
      @vitriolicAmaranth 2 месяца назад +3

      ​​@@MindShift-BrandonFor what it's worth, the argument that we only seek struggles and require strife to avoid boredom because we are adapted to a world full of struggle and strife makes the same mistake as most arguments for the existence of God, which is assuming from the start that God exists or God's existence is the most likely explanation for any apparent anomaly (or in this case, that evolution is a real phenomenon or evolution is the most likely explanation for an anomaly in human nature).
      Of course, if we assume there is no evolution and genetics are, I dunno, explained by God making children resemble their parents as an aesthetic choice, we must ask _why God made us capable of boredom._
      Also I realise that you axiomatically disagree with the idea that without struggle we become bored, but I disagree; That is not only not axiomatically false, there us overwhelming evidence that it is true. I think your mistake in reasoning, based on the video, is unintentionally assuming that as boredom is a type of misery and struggle and strife cause misery, struggle and strife cannot be a requirement to stave off boredom.

    • @chameleonx9253
      @chameleonx9253 2 месяца назад +7

      @@vitriolicAmaranth Boredom is an evolved characteristic of certain tetrapods that encourages us to explore and discover new resources to exploit or habitats to colonize. Most likely because the organisms that weren't as curious just hung around doing the same thing until all resources dried up and they died.

  • @shiroamakusa8075
    @shiroamakusa8075 2 месяца назад +166

    You know, at least the Jews admit that God's the author of both good and evil and the only reason to submit is because you're terrified of the guy.

    • @chewxieyang4677
      @chewxieyang4677 2 месяца назад +40

      And so did almost every polytheist adherent of every mythology ever. They never had to pretend their gods are of any embodiment of moral virtue, and are instead someone powerful you beseech for favors, and respect for their authority.

    • @riseofdarkleela
      @riseofdarkleela 2 месяца назад +24

      I accidentally read that as “terrified of the gay” and it still worked 😂😂

    • @Uryvichk
      @Uryvichk 2 месяца назад +15

      Also they had a contract with him. Sometimes you sign a contract with a real jerk, but a deal's a deal, y'know?

    • @apokalypthoapokalypsys9573
      @apokalypthoapokalypsys9573 2 месяца назад

      ​@@Uryvichkwhy, of course the jews would make a deal with even their own god. Classic jews, I bet they even sneaked in a few fine print clauses.

    • @shiroamakusa8075
      @shiroamakusa8075 2 месяца назад +33

      @@Uryvichk It's funny how God's covenant with Abraham contains almost no real duties and obligations for God to fulfill, but requires Abraham's descendents to follow a plethora of rather arbitrary rules and a hard non-compete clause. Old Abe should have hired a lawyer before signing.
      Suddenly that Baal guy looks like a really swell deal.

  • @il.anshin
    @il.anshin 2 месяца назад +160

    The ironic thing about apologetics is that its primary purpose isn't to convince non-believers, but rather to ease the cognitive dissonance of believers who hold their faith primarily due to spiritual experiences or emotional reasons. For these individuals, any self-defeating argument is irrelevant because they believe that, in the end, God will make everything right. William Lane Craig once admitted that he would still hold his beliefs even if all the evidence contradicted them, because his experiences, filtered through a religious and cultural lens, are what he interprets as divine.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +34

      yes its for the choir for sure, my only hope is some of the choir sit in my pews for a few minute and get disillusioned with the lies they are being fed.

    • @gleidhold
      @gleidhold 2 месяца назад +6

      exactly

    • @LolitaBonitaaa
      @LolitaBonitaaa 2 месяца назад +8

      @@il.anshin yep. believing in god requires complete absence of reasoning, cognition and logical thinking. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart. That's why believers need to have "blind faith" so they don't question or analyze anything and remain in the bubble where they (falsely) feel safer.

    • @bluecrystal3900
      @bluecrystal3900 2 месяца назад +1

      Very well said 👏

    • @johngavin1175
      @johngavin1175 2 месяца назад +1

      ​​@@MindShift-BrandonI mentioned your video in the comments section of his video. Dunno if that was a good idea or not.

  • @chameleonx9253
    @chameleonx9253 2 месяца назад +179

    Ever notice how every single time an apologist makes an analogy for God, they conveniently forget about the "omnipotent" and "omniscient" part?

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +20

      Yup lol!

    • @JDrocks4ever
      @JDrocks4ever 2 месяца назад +35

      Absolutely! Frank turek got nailed by some dude who’s name I forget rn in a debate when he brought up how sin coming into the world is Gods fault for placing the tree in the garden, while knowing they were going to eat from it before placed it. Franks rebuttal was to suggest that God “couldn’t do better” I.e. this was the best world he could create. Immediately diminished the characteristic of omnipotence lol

    • @chameleonx9253
      @chameleonx9253 2 месяца назад

      @@JDrocks4ever Honestly, I don't know why they ever thought it was a good idea to claim their god was literally omnipotent and omniscient. It would save them a hell of a lot of trouble to just admit that's it's an incompetent loser who can't figure out how to build a halfway decent lifeform without filing it full of hundreds of obvious design flaws.
      Their whole moral philosophy is based on "might makes right" anyway, so what does it matter if their god is a moron? They would still be obligated to obey him out of terror of his unquenchable bloodlust, so why the massive PR campaign?
      Oh... right... it's because he's not real. 🤭

    • @toonyandfriends1915
      @toonyandfriends1915 2 месяца назад

      @@JDrocks4ever God can't, again do away with necessity so it is consistent that there are things God can't do while being omnipotent and theist since the middle ages never denied such a thing. Or else you get things such as God being able too create a square circle or doing things against his nature(he can't) and this was affirmed since the middle ages.
      There are other things you could respond to Frank Turek on this matter as a rebuttal, but i am just here to clarify that this response does not necessarily diminishes omnipotence. I will have to add that i'm doubtful about the specific christian God existant and it seems i have to say such a thing before people start saying things about my intentions.

    • @Explodington
      @Explodington 2 месяца назад +25

      ​@toonyandfriends1915 listing a bunch of things god can't do certainly does diminish his omnipotence. I am also omnipotent, if you don't count all of the things I can't do.

  • @astrinymris9953
    @astrinymris9953 2 месяца назад +180

    Pausing at 14:25 to note that I find it interesting that he doesn't acknowledge that anytime someone uses their "free will" to rape, enslave, rob, or murder *that takes away the victims free will to live as they please*. So in a system with truly free will for everyone, no one would be allowed to commit crimes against against other people's person or property. The system would cause the aggressor bots to freeze up if they tried, or allow the innocent bots to teleport out or throw up a force shield to protect themselves if threatened.
    Eventually, the evil-intentioned bots would learn, "Well, *that* doesn't work." and try something non-evil to fill their time. Or maybe they'd stubbornly continue to try doing evil, but since they couldn't actually harm anyone, all the good people could go on with their lives unmolested. There you go: Problem of evil solved, while retaining free will for everyone.

    • @goldenalt3166
      @goldenalt3166 2 месяца назад +22

      Exactly, God needed to make evil profitable so it would be attractive because ?

    • @terrellkirkman2078
      @terrellkirkman2078 2 месяца назад +22

      Vote @astrinymris9953 for God 2024.

    • @astrinymris9953
      @astrinymris9953 2 месяца назад +5

      @@terrellkirkman2078 🤣🤣🤣 Thank you!

    • @Uryvichk
      @Uryvichk 2 месяца назад +32

      Same problem with Satan, except worse, because many denominations say Satan is irredeemable and can never be saved. But they do think humans can be. So... why does God allow Satan to go around violating human free will, dominating and misleading and tempting and insulting them, potentially resulting in their damnation? It can't be because God values Satan's free will to choose good, because Satan can no longer choose good. So like... make it so he can't interact with human beings at all? You don't have to kill him, just strip him of any power to influence the free will of beings who can still make a meaningful choice.

    • @greschenglin-dz7wj
      @greschenglin-dz7wj 2 месяца назад +2

      ​​@@UryvichkGod says one thing, Satan says something to the contrary. Ball is in your court.
      The only thing the devil has in this scene is his words, and the only influence they have here is suggesting an alternative that goes against what you have been told before. You can either stick with the former and show your trust in God, which is to allow Him to influence you, or choose the latter, putting your trust in someone else and ceding yourself over to their influence in like fashion.
      Much like the Garden of Eden.
      The fruit was never the problem. It's trust.

  • @JeffryBozes
    @JeffryBozes 2 месяца назад +414

    "Sure, God *could* make a universe without babies that get flesh eating disease & experience agony for their short life... but seeing babies suffer is just so much fun!!" - Christians, apparently
    "Sure, heaven is perfect & there is no suffering... but there are no babies in agony?? This place is BORING!" -Christians, apparently

    • @sorryifoldcomment8596
      @sorryifoldcomment8596 2 месяца назад +30

      @@JeffryBozes Yeah, I immediately started thinking about all the species I would simply not create. It would be so easy for me...definitely a lot easier than actually creating them. I would also have no trouble creating an ecosystem that didn't require them, if I had God's absolute power.
      Just...why??

    • @TheMilitantMazdakite
      @TheMilitantMazdakite 2 месяца назад +1

      Lies. When Ahura Mazda created the world, they made it perfect. All of our problems are man-made, or, more accurately, HIERARCHY made!

    • @_ben_miller
      @_ben_miller 2 месяца назад +3

      the god of the bible is described as being able to create and destroy and resurrect at will, and exists in an eternal plane. why would this matter to him?
      also, your logic in your bottom paragraph is nonsense.
      jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. the people who reject him are the ones who choose this world and all of its evils. the ones who accept him desire to be with him in the plane he exists in.
      as to why he allows it at all: to show that man is so evil and foolish that he would choose all of it rather than anything better that involves him.
      unless you believe there is another way of escape of this world other than faith in Jesus of Nazareth, every belief in your worldview will, by default, serve to make you choose this world and choose all the evil in it.
      ie, you are no different than what you project about the creator, except you don't have the power to make it happen. you still want it, though

    • @gregsanich5183
      @gregsanich5183 2 месяца назад

      Remember that unless they were grown in a lab, every one of those babies is guilty of violating a womans bodily autonomy without her consent.
      A crime that is equivalent to grape, and rightly warrants capital punishment without any trial or due process.
      Skin disease is getting off easy.

    • @JeffryBozes
      @JeffryBozes 2 месяца назад +29

      @@_ben_miller Why do you assume it is a choice to not be raised in an environment that leads me to believe that a particular mythology/religion story is true?

  • @FeliciaByNature
    @FeliciaByNature 2 месяца назад +305

    As a software engineer, this guy's understanding of AI hurts like hell. It belongs on the SyFy channel not in a real discussion about anything.

    • @dasbus9834
      @dasbus9834 2 месяца назад +55

      Whenever apologists try to use computer-related metaphors, they fail miserably. Without exception.

    • @archapmangcmg
      @archapmangcmg 2 месяца назад +40

      @@dasbus9834 Whenever they try to argue cosmology, they fail. Biology. Geology. Car design. In fact, they're all failures and almost always in ways you don't need to be an expert in order to spot the lies.

    • @TaylorReedHudson
      @TaylorReedHudson 2 месяца назад +37

      I don’t understand AI that well, and even I listened to that thinking, “This sounds all kinds of wrong.”

    • @Shattered3582
      @Shattered3582 2 месяца назад +12

      I cringed so hard at that part

    • @terrellkirkman2078
      @terrellkirkman2078 2 месяца назад +27

      I'm no software engineer but I know ChatGPT doesn't run on Asimov's 3 laws. 😂😂😂

  • @andytyler6252
    @andytyler6252 2 месяца назад +73

    My middle daughter was 10 years old before she found out some parents hit their children. She was horrified when she witnessed that at Walmart for the first time. Kids grow up just fine without physical punishment. Teaching and guiding by example produces much better adjusted adults. I have 3, beautiful, adult children to attest to my words.

    • @MrBBaron
      @MrBBaron 2 месяца назад +14

      As an old Boomer me and my brother were frequently given "the belt " even for minor transgressions .It hurt like hell. The same could be said of the other kids I knew. The parents didn't hesitate to use physical force to correct bad behavior. It was accepted as normal parental behavior. Even our teachers could use physical punishment in paddling a problem student. Me and bro and my friends turned out to be good productive citizens. I never had kids but I would have never hit them to correct behavior.

    • @katherineg9396
      @katherineg9396 2 месяца назад +2

      God is great at making rules, but he's not much of a teacher.

    • @sorryifoldcomment8596
      @sorryifoldcomment8596 2 месяца назад +2

      Yeah, I was never hit as a child and somehow I was the best behaved child around! Same with my brother. I genuinely can't think of any way it could've benefited us...much less benefited us in ways that could even come close to compensating for the incredible damage it would cause. (I already suffered terrible anxiety, without the fear of being physically assaulted at any moment.)
      Even when I hit puberty and broke my track record of perfect behavior (by self-medicating with the only substances I had access to, which were illegal drugs & alcohol)...physically assaulting me would have been the LAST thing that would've helped! I was already suicidal, in incredible mental anguish, and self-harming as an additional coping mechanism. The only thing that would have helped is the one & only thing that has helped: getting the officially prescribed medication I needed the whole time (because my brain actually needs additional drugs).
      It's terrifying to think about how many people would've looked at my situation and thought the only reason my "bad behavior" continued was because my parents weren't willing to hit me. 🤢
      I am truly horrified when I imagine how my life would've gone had I been raised by Christian/religious extremists who believed their almighty God actively disapproved *not* beating me, and possibly would punish my parents if they didn't physically assault me...plus, they would definitely think my substance use & mental health issues were purely spiritual problems (if not demonic possession), only solved by prayer & physical punishment (maybe an exorcism too). 🤢🤮
      My life was hard enough! 😭

    • @andytyler6252
      @andytyler6252 2 месяца назад +3

      @@sorryifoldcomment8596 I was beaten regularly as a child. It definitely didn't help my anxiety at all. I hope things go well for you. I know it's difficult at times, but it gets better.

    • @andytyler6252
      @andytyler6252 2 месяца назад +1

      @@sorryifoldcomment8596 I had a Christian friend at the time. Even though I stayed overnight a few times, after the cops were called to my house, his family dynamic was always odd to me.
      They weren't physically abusive, but they NEVER talked to each other. Not even a greeting when you walked into the house.
      I've always thought it was interesting how similar our childhoods were, even though they were very different on the surface. They were the family going to church 3 times per week with a nice house and lawn.
      I believe their intentions were good, but we don't necessarily get what we actually need from our parents. I can honestly say I feel pity for my father more than anything else. It's a cycle that's difficult to break. In a strange way, I think I was fortunate because it was very obvious that I needed help.

  • @Porthidium
    @Porthidium 2 месяца назад +57

    34:07 Damn man, this brought tears to my eyes. You worded that perfectly. As an former Christian father in a Christian family: thanks for doing what you do.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +7

      appreciate that! thanks for being here.

    • @newme1589
      @newme1589 2 месяца назад +2

      To point out what you said, as an ex hardcore atheist, now Christian:
      You not following Christ doesnt make you a bad father. If one of your children becomes Christian, and you're against that, thats another case.
      The priest that does evil but follows Christ, ending in heaven, is from what i understand, a bit of a strawman argument, because yes, path to heaven is through Christ. However, if that love for Him is genuine, you're not gonna do evil. And if you do, you repent and you always improve.
      So the priest that does evil, cannot have a relation with Christ, as He is described in the bible (it can be an imagined Christ to fit his needs, so therefore a false Christ)
      In your case, from what i understand, God is just. If you were given information about Christ and you reject Him for your own satisfaction/superiority/pride etc, then thats bad news.
      However, (i assume you did this) you looked at your life, at knowledge presented, and concluded Christianity is fake, however you will apply Christ teachings to your children (love, humility, etc) ... I cant say whats gonna happen, but i cant say you will go to hell, but because He is just, you will not get tricked into hell if you genuinely dont deserve it.
      Sorry for the bad experiences with Christians, as an ex hardcore atheist, i can always relate to atheists ! Take care 😊

  • @BluStarGalaxy
    @BluStarGalaxy 2 месяца назад +265

    A chef is making a cake and while preparing the batter half a dozen cockroaches fall in. When guests at the restaurant are served the cake they have a feeling that something is very wrong and inquire to the chef. The chef admits that he allowed the cockroaches to fall in and that it was something that was just bound to happen. When the guests get mad about his carelessness other guests defend the chef and berate the guests that are mad saying that they wouldn’t have been able to do any better and in reality they should not have expected to have the cake any other way.

    • @AdamKlownzinger
      @AdamKlownzinger 2 месяца назад +63

      Well said. Except we’re not even just talking about a chef, we’re talking about the best possible chef. And yet not only would the best possible chef not do such a thing, your run of the mill chef wouldn’t either

    • @CatDaddyGuitar
      @CatDaddyGuitar 2 месяца назад +8

      @@AdamKlownzinger 👍🏼👍🏼

    • @CatDaddyGuitar
      @CatDaddyGuitar 2 месяца назад +23

      @@AdamKlownzinger lol and who's running the kitchen for roaches to be around in the first place??

    • @ellyam991
      @ellyam991 2 месяца назад +44

      "Which cake would you rather have? A perfect cake that would be BORING or a cake full with surprises - sometimes not good ones?"

    • @abiliv-lf9tz
      @abiliv-lf9tz 2 месяца назад +10

      @AdamKlownzinger
      Naw he was the best chef in the kitchen cuz ik there's definitely better chefs out there 😭

  • @ayemiksenoj5254
    @ayemiksenoj5254 2 месяца назад +48

    The biggest problem with this "boring" argument is no one would KNOW life was boring!!
    All they would know is good and perfection is NORMAL!
    One of the major problems with evil is how NORMAL it is.
    Due to that we've become complacent, apathetic, disillusioned, hopeless, ect to the trauma, illness, pain, and suffering of others and at times ourselves.
    We've simply resolved ourselves to "it is what it is" because the world's issues are so severe what can we really do?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@ayemiksenoj5254

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад +1

      @@ayemiksenoj5254 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the existence or goodness of God by a standard you don’t think exists.?

    • @ayemiksenoj5254
      @ayemiksenoj5254 Месяц назад +2

      @@andrewwilson9183, please excuse me but I'm really starting to wonder if people read or if they just feel compelled to say something?
      Did you READ what I said or feel compelled to comment?
      When and where did I say I was an atheist?
      Also, you don't have to believe in organized religion to believe in God.
      I personally know several people who aren't part of any religion and believe in God more than any religious person I ever met.
      So, after you answer my questions, I'll answer yours.
      I asked 3 just to be clear and I won't answer you until you answer all 3.
      I have to make sure you're reading what I say first.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@ayemiksenoj5254 1. Yes I felt compelled, however from what I read it appeared as though you were supporting the video. Brandon did heart you after all. That is sufficient for all your questions.
      2. I am aware that people can believe in God outside of any particular religion. I never claimed otherwise. You were also assuming.

  • @Ponera-Sama
    @Ponera-Sama 2 месяца назад +339

    Hot take: If unspeakable evil and horror are the logical and inevitable result of free will, then free will is evil, and God is evil for creating it.

    • @andytyler6252
      @andytyler6252 2 месяца назад +19

      @Ponera-Sama The only thing free will can do is damn us, if you believe you can't save yourself without jesus.

    • @judethree4405
      @judethree4405 2 месяца назад +18

      Simple, yet hard hitting point!

    • @Headroomtalking
      @Headroomtalking 2 месяца назад +1

      Which would be true if Enoch died

    • @Uryvichk
      @Uryvichk 2 месяца назад +27

      Yep, that's the fundamental fatal flaw of the Free Will Defense: There is no good, principled, ethical reason why God should prefer the expression of free will to the point of allowing every other bad thing. Nothing about it is inherently good, at least not enough to be more valuable than everything else; and if it's only instrumentally good, then to whatever extent it results in the opposite of good, it shouldn't be valued by God.

    • @justanotheropinion5832
      @justanotheropinion5832 2 месяца назад

      ⁠@@Uryvichk another fundamental flaw is all of the evil that has zero relationship to free will.
      Natural disasters. Childhood cancer. There is immeasurable pain and suffering in this world. It serves no purpose and cannot be defending by free will.
      According to biblical logic God caused it with intention, rendering the bible logically impossible.

  • @kyrroti
    @kyrroti 2 месяца назад +60

    As a god with perfect foreknowledge, he’d be able to iterate on the program BILLIONS of times. He’d be able to fine tune all the variables in order to get the outcome he wants. According to this guy, the world is exactly how god wants it to be.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +23

      exactly. this is the best of all possible worlds according to Yahweh and this logic, and yet i can remove one single tornado and improve it.

    • @Uryvichk
      @Uryvichk 2 месяца назад +4

      Weirdly, I'm not clear on what the difference would be between God imagining something and God actually creating it. Would God actually create every universe iteration to see how it goes, or is God somehow capable of imagining a universe without creating it? How would we know whether we're in an actually-created universe or one God just imagines?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@Uryvichk
      That’s a good question concerning omniscience. I suppose it may be argued that God has active knowledge of events that take place, and passive or indirect knowledge of counterfactuals.
      In other words, by having a knowledge of the presence of certain things, there is also knowledge of the corresponding absences of that presence.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@kyrroti So?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@kyrroti I thought you atheists do not believe in objective morality

  • @narellepayne1455
    @narellepayne1455 2 месяца назад +50

    If a real-life clinical trial was failing so spectacularly, the Ethics Committee would stop the trial.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@narellepayne1455
      You’re assuming what moral obligations God is bound to.
      All we know is that God is bound to consistency

  • @beanpie2912
    @beanpie2912 2 месяца назад +93

    The way that I saw the I am Beggar video and thought "Brandon should react to this, I hope he does." I guess prayer does work 🙏😅

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +20

      Lol!

    • @riseofdarkleela
      @riseofdarkleela 2 месяца назад +2

      larf larf

    • @johngavin1175
      @johngavin1175 2 месяца назад +3

      I hope others react to it too. Like Rhino or GMS for instance. Or maybe SirSic?😅

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@beanpie2912 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@johngavin1175 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @survive323
    @survive323 2 месяца назад +400

    God can't be around evil yet he created it. Knowing all along what he was doing.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +61

      One of s thousand issues!

    • @CatDaddyGuitar
      @CatDaddyGuitar 2 месяца назад +44

      And yet, apparently, no one can escape his presence, according to David.

    • @MarkMiller-gt5tu
      @MarkMiller-gt5tu 2 месяца назад

      ​@@CatDaddyGuitarIf you want a good 😂 laugh watch "Little Darryl The First 48"

    • @Chuck-se5hh
      @Chuck-se5hh 2 месяца назад +12

      Well said!!!!!!

    • @charlesclaridy8646
      @charlesclaridy8646 2 месяца назад +5

      Go read 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1st Chronicles 21:1. Use a KJV. Notice who prompts David. Not the same? Or is it the same?

  • @reneeweber7102
    @reneeweber7102 2 месяца назад +40

    Many aspects of the Christian world view can be summed up with this:
    “From what position of privilege”
    Nailed it Brandon.

    • @swagpenguin2151
      @swagpenguin2151 2 месяца назад

      There’s people in Africa who die for there faith I beg to differ.

    • @mossystone584
      @mossystone584 2 месяца назад +4

      @@swagpenguin2151 there are people in africa who were made christian by people who genocided them and enslaved them, and those were justified by the bible

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@mossystone584
      I don’t think you understand African history

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@mossystone584
      Ethiopia is a historically Christian society, and most of the Africas conversion to Christianity has come in the past few decades.

    • @mossystone584
      @mossystone584 Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 the Ivory coast

  • @MrFiddler1959
    @MrFiddler1959 2 месяца назад +82

    I think the only argument worse than "perfection is boring" is "evil/suffering is the refiner's fire." I taught elementary school for 38 years. If I had used any of the tactics the biblical God used to teach a lesson or to discipline I would be rightly incarcerated for life in solitary confinement.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +8

      100%!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад +2

      @@MrFiddler1959 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @unbrokenativee
      @unbrokenativee 20 дней назад +1

      @@andrewwilson9183so you’re assuming that Atheists can’t have any moral compass because they don’t subscribe to any specific religion? Or worse give any examination of said religion simply because they don’t believe in it? Sad.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 20 дней назад

      @
      No, I did not say any of that reread the comment

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 20 дней назад

      @@unbrokenativee
      I never once used the word religion.
      What I said was, you cannot simultaneously say that “the concept of God is evil” and “good and evil do not objectively exist”.

  • @JumpyDragon56
    @JumpyDragon56 2 месяца назад +26

    This was one of the biggest problems I have when I was doubting. There was no good answer to all the suffering and evil if God was as all-powerful, all-loving, all-forgive, all-knowing, etc. Thank you for talking about all the cop-outs that results in these questions. Huge like!!! I'm going to save this for future use because I know I'll need it in my back pocket.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +2

      Glad you found it so useful. Thanks for watching!

    • @iwilldi
      @iwilldi 2 месяца назад +2

      Just make god as foolish as causality and give god a companion Satan as unreliable as chaos and there you go.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@JumpyDragon56
      The Atheist argument from suffering is fallacious

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@JumpyDragon56 I thought you atheists do not believe in objective morality

  • @kevinnazario1015
    @kevinnazario1015 2 месяца назад +114

    On the 2023 earthquake in Turkey that killed over 45,000 people there was a story that totally demolished me.
    There was this man who was working when the quake hitted. When he returned home, his entire neighborhood was gone. It was a set of six story buildings. He lived with his elderly mother, his wife, his two boys and one girl. While looking through the rubble the found the girl's arm . She was alive under tons of debris. There was no way to extract her. The man sat next to her on a chair, holding her hand as she slowly died asking him to save her. She died. The girl was already decomposing, the man was still there holding her hand. His eyes lost. I cannot imagine what was in his mind. He lost his entire family. His entire neighborhood. And for what? Is someone gonna have the balls of quoting Job on me?
    I don't give a shit about the divine plan. If the plan is more important than the suffering of the innocent,then there is no benevolent god. Is a cruel sadistic overlord.
    I don't know what happened to that man. But the image if him holding his daughter's hand from under the rubble will forever haunt me.

    • @njhoepner
      @njhoepner 2 месяца назад +12

      God wanted the entertainment value.

    • @stephenbedford1395
      @stephenbedford1395 2 месяца назад +15

      That tragic story encapsulates the problem of natural evil, which no Christian has ever been able to 'theodicy' their way out of.

    • @badboyb123-n9k
      @badboyb123-n9k 2 месяца назад +4

      ​@BenJones-d8pso... You're agreeing on the biblical God not being omnipotent?

    • @Michael-el7iy
      @Michael-el7iy 2 месяца назад +3

      it's a long read but please read this You understand a lot more...............
      Before I begin, I want to acknowledge something upfront: words often feel hollow in the face of overwhelming tragedy like this. What that man went through is beyond heartbreaking. No human being should endure such pain, and any answer we try to offer has to begin from a place of humility and respect for the depth of his suffering. I don’t claim to have a perfect answer. But I’ll try to offer a perspective that grapples with both the agony of this situation and the profound questions it raises.
      The objection here is clear, and it cuts deep: How can anyone reconcile this kind of unspeakable suffering-of a father watching his child die slowly, unable to save her-with the belief in a benevolent, all-powerful God? Isn’t such suffering proof that God either doesn’t exist or, worse, that He is indifferent or cruel?
      So, the first thing we have to admit is that this suffering feels like a cosmic betrayal. Not just of the father, but of all of us. And when we're betrayed, we look for someone to blame, and in this case, God becomes that target. And rightly so, because if God exists and allowed this, doesn’t He bear the ultimate responsibility?
      Now, let’s take this head-on. The idea that God has a ‘divine plan’ can feel deeply unsatisfying in situations like this. It feels almost callous to suggest that this father’s loss was part of some grand narrative. So, if there is a God, how do we make sense of His silence in such moments? There are a few things to consider, none of which erase the suffering, but they do force us to think deeper about the nature of the divine.
      First, we have to reject a simplistic view of God’s plan, one where God micromanages every event and deliberately designs every tragedy. If God were a puppet master pulling every string, then yes, we would be right to call Him cruel. But what if, instead, God has created a world with genuine freedom-freedom in human choices, freedom in nature-and that freedom comes with risk, randomness, and the possibility of immense suffering? What if God is not the architect of every event, but the force that seeks to heal and redeem even the worst moments
      You mentioned Job, and I get it-Job’s story often feels like the ultimate cop-out when it comes to suffering. But maybe there’s something deeper there than just ‘God works in mysterious ways.’ In the story of Job, God doesn’t give easy answers to suffering; instead, He challenges Job by showing him the vastness and complexity of the universe, a universe that operates on principles far beyond human comprehension. But here’s the kicker: God never dismisses Job’s pain. He never minimizes it. Instead, Job is invited to wrestle with his grief, his anger, and his sense of injustice-because these feelings are real and valid
      But here’s where the real existential challenge comes in: If God doesn’t exist, does that make the situation any better? Does it erase the suffering or make it more bearable? If there is no God, no transcendent reality, then suffering like this becomes pure absurdity. It has no meaning, no purpose, no hope. The father’s pain, his daughter’s death, all of it becomes just a cruel twist of fate in a meaningless universe. But if there is a God, even one who we don’t fully understand, then there is at least the possibility of redemption. Maybe, and I emphasize maybe, this suffering can be transformed-not erased, not justified, but transformed-into something that we can’t yet see
      It’s not a comforting answer, but it’s a profoundly different view of reality. Either the universe is utterly indifferent, or there is a God who grieves with us, who suffers with us, and who ultimately promises to make things right, even if we can’t see it in the moment. And perhaps, this is the hardest thing to accept: that there is meaning and hope, even in the face of unimaginable suffering, but we may never fully grasp it in this life
      I know that’s not a tidy answer. There’s no ‘silver lining’ to a tragedy like this. But maybe, just maybe, the existence of a God who allows freedom, who weeps with us, and who ultimately offers redemption is not as absurd as it first seems. Maybe, when all else falls apart, we’re left with two choices: despair in a meaningless universe or cling to the hope that somehow, in ways we can’t understand, suffering will be redeemed. I’ll leave you with that to think about

    • @yasutakeuchi
      @yasutakeuchi 2 месяца назад +1

      This is heartbreaking.
      Some assholes out there get hard at the thought of exploiting these types of tragedies, for thé sake of entertainment. I guess the world not being boring is the divine plan.
      Smh. Fkin ridiculous.

  • @CalamariPlaysStarfield
    @CalamariPlaysStarfield 2 месяца назад +192

    As a dude with Autism, Hydrocephalus, Has lost both my brothers and my stepsister for reasons that we're totally out of my control, Has more body issues than I'd like to admit. I could do a better job than this God, blindfolded, hands behind my back, and with a full blown Concussion. This God can shove it

    • @joshuamoody7729
      @joshuamoody7729 2 месяца назад +23

      I am also somebody that has autism, but I also have a rare disease on top of that called Tuberous Sclerosis that causes it. The main things I deal with are noncancerous tumors on my brain and cysts that grow on both of my kidneys. I have no doubt in my mind that I would’ve done a much better job than whatever supposedly created us. One thing I would do to start with as an example is: making it extremely punishable or hard for folks to get wealthy off of the backs of those who are suffering with an illness/disability no matter if it’s mental or physical.

    • @CalamariPlaysStarfield
      @CalamariPlaysStarfield 2 месяца назад +8

      @@joshuamoody7729 *Slow clap* Beautiful! Perfection 🤌🏻

    • @terrellkirkman2078
      @terrellkirkman2078 2 месяца назад +11

      According to the OC God made you that way and put you through all of that trauma because otherwise, your life would be boring! (Note he doesn't say who it's boring *for* )

    • @CalamariPlaysStarfield
      @CalamariPlaysStarfield 2 месяца назад +1

      @@terrellkirkman2078 Than that God is an absolute fucking dick for even allowing me to be born in the first place, assuming it knows I would feel this way, and get a one way ticket to the burning place because he set my ass up. Again, this God can take it's plan, flip it sideways and shove it up his "All Powerful, All Knowing" ass, I would put all Good, but we all know that's fucking false

    • @quinn0517
      @quinn0517 2 месяца назад +1

      Autistic, narcoleptic, idiopathic chronic inflammation, and I need a heart transplant.
      At least that imbegar guy isn't bored though, right?

  • @funkypunkypine
    @funkypunkypine 2 месяца назад +28

    Huh, my bad. Here I am thinking that woodworking and sewing and skiing and reading and sculpting are things I can do to stave off boredom. If only I had known the only way to not be bored is to be bad I could have saved myself a lot of missed time and missed opportunity.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +11

      Yes how naive of you. Dont you know war and pain is all that is fun?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@funkypunkypine I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @daysoftheboo
    @daysoftheboo 2 месяца назад +61

    Defending god is like defending an abusive husband/ boyfriend/girlfriend/
    parent, defending god is basically the same as defending and making excuses for an abuser
    It's unhealthy and toxic

    • @pratiwi16
      @pratiwi16 2 месяца назад +15

      If things go well, then it's all because of god.. If things go bad, it'S because our fault to be tempted by evil...
      Exactly like an abusive partner / abusive parent!

    • @daysoftheboo
      @daysoftheboo 2 месяца назад +2

      @@pratiwi16 you spoken like a victom who makes excuses for their abuser

    • @daysoftheboo
      @daysoftheboo 2 месяца назад +4

      @@pratiwi16"he abuses me because he loves me"

    • @pratiwi16
      @pratiwi16 2 месяца назад +2

      @@daysoftheboo nope.. I agree with your statement!

    • @daysoftheboo
      @daysoftheboo 2 месяца назад +2

      @@pratiwi16 oh, I got confused
      Because my parents are extremely religious and then and they're crazy religious friends make the most extreme insane excuses for god
      Very very offensive to survivors of abuse of any kind , so I wasn't sure if you were also making excuses for god AKA the man or men who invented god

  • @AztecLos13
    @AztecLos13 2 месяца назад +33

    So this guy watched the Matrix and heard Agent Smith’s story about the first Matrix was paradise and perfect. But people couldn’t handle it and it crashed and the lost many crops. Definitely reminded me of that scene.

    • @Llortnerof
      @Llortnerof 2 месяца назад +8

      This guy sounds like all his knowledge about the topic comes from science fiction. Because holy crap, that's not how any of this works.

    • @michaelhenry1763
      @michaelhenry1763 2 месяца назад +1

      Excellent analogy. That’s funny. I thought he was thinking about I am Robot. But your pick makes better sense.

  • @Nick-Nasti
    @Nick-Nasti 2 месяца назад +15

    Love your work.
    Summary of apologist arguments: “don’t think too hard about it”

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад

      Thank you!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@Nick-Nasti
      It’s the other way around, but most their arguments are dumb to be fair.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@Nick-Nasti I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @Nick-Nasti
      @Nick-Nasti Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 because we judge your imaginary god by morals, not “objective” morals. Morals exist whether they are objective or subjective.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@Nick-Nasti
      That doesn’t make any sense.
      Morals based on what standard?

  • @CJoyArt
    @CJoyArt 2 месяца назад +40

    One of my best and dearest Christian friends asked me (after I admitted I'm agnostic), "Are you just letting your emotions get the best of you since you god has not intervened in so much suffering?" My response was that it would be emotionally easier to believe in a loving god that cares about not just me, but the rest of the world." She didn't have a response.
    Thank you Brandon for this excellent video. I am always blown away with your ability to show, with scripture, the audacity of this god.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +12

      its so frustrating to see believers miss the point so hard and at the same time be so hypocritical. Thank you for this!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@CJoyArt I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @zethian1
      @zethian1 16 часов назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 hey how about you do your own research agnostic means a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God. so not an athiest

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 16 часов назад

      @@zethian1 the principle applies all the same

  • @iamdanielmonroe
    @iamdanielmonroe 2 месяца назад +19

    The problem with the “boring” issue he stated is that boredom is an emotion that we feel and perceive as the flawed and imperfect human beings that we are. If God made us perfect and content, we would not even fathom the concept or feeling of boredom because we would not want for anything outside of what was set before us and programmed into us. Sure it’s boring to “us” as we currently exist, but that’s because we crave drama, excitement, highs and lows in order to have a sense of fulfillment and value. Perfectly designed beings wouldn’t need that to even have a sense of something being boring.

  • @BladeValant546
    @BladeValant546 2 месяца назад +51

    This was my issue growing up as a Methodist preachers kid with a sick mom and being poor. I was always upset how my dad served and the Bible says he takes care of his own we always seemed to be struggling and my mom never was healed.
    Basically, I prayed and served myself even going to Bible school and always was met with silence. So if there is some plan I'm not aware of it.
    Not to mention the plethora of fictional universes that are awesome. Why didnt god make star trek, pokemon world, insert better worlds we created.

    • @terrellkirkman2078
      @terrellkirkman2078 2 месяца назад +6

      TBH the idea that God is a barely adequate software engineer who likes reality shows like Locked Up Abroad and 90 Day Fiancé over Star Trek and Pokémon makes more sense than most Christian apologetics.

    • @Chronorust
      @Chronorust 2 месяца назад +1

      The scapegoat for them in this situation is "it's god's plan that you suffer and things will eventually get ebtter" over and over until something finaly does go right, or it never does and that's also "God's plan". Like with what happen with the Trump rally atendee that died protecting his family from getting shot. Very convienant for them.

    • @kevincrady2831
      @kevincrady2831 2 месяца назад +2

      Why didn't he make a world without smallpox? _We_ managed it, and the universe didn't fall apart.

    • @terrellkirkman2078
      @terrellkirkman2078 2 месяца назад

      @@kevincrady2831 but imagine how exciting it is for him to watch and see if the ani-vax people can bring it back? Creating a world without small pox (or any other disease) is like creating a reality competition without an elimination ceremony .

  • @erinimagines
    @erinimagines 2 месяца назад +72

    I never understand when people say God allows bad things to happen to bring him glory and that it's worth it?? NO It's not!

    • @iwilldi
      @iwilldi 2 месяца назад +8

      God is glorious in his absurdity.

    • @2pacaveli257
      @2pacaveli257 2 месяца назад +2

      Thank God's Angel Lucifer for his assistance 😂

    • @blueStarKitt7924
      @blueStarKitt7924 2 месяца назад

      😔😔😔

    • @Existidor.Serial137
      @Existidor.Serial137 2 месяца назад +5

      Yes! why does he need to be glorified?? He is 100% perfect. He doesnt need anything. Is he narcissist?

    • @ShadowTheHedgehog56696
      @ShadowTheHedgehog56696 2 месяца назад +3

      @Existidor.Serial137 Not only is he A narcissist, he is THE narcissist!

  • @MarkMiller-gt5tu
    @MarkMiller-gt5tu 2 месяца назад +36

    I'm never "bored" watching "mindshift"😊.

    • @CatDaddyGuitar
      @CatDaddyGuitar 2 месяца назад +8

      Is there a sufficient amount of evil? 😂😂

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +7

      lol thanks!

    • @charlesclaridy8646
      @charlesclaridy8646 2 месяца назад +4

      Definitely.

    • @johngavin1175
      @johngavin1175 2 месяца назад +3

      I agree as well. This was a good one and a doozy,for sure.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@MarkMiller-gt5tu I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @Hexsmasher2099
    @Hexsmasher2099 2 месяца назад +208

    Every single apologetic that tries nullify the reason for evil to exist is nothing but horseshit

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +26

      Agreed

    • @littlebitofhope1489
      @littlebitofhope1489 2 месяца назад +1

      Be nice. Horseshit is very useful and is good in the garden. It holds a lot of moisture. Use Carnivore shit as an insult because it stinks to high heaven just like apologetics. Pun intended.

    • @Uryvichk
      @Uryvichk 2 месяца назад +3

      Many of them come from Alvin Plantinga. Hint: There's a connection between this point and your point.

    • @advocacynaccountablity
      @advocacynaccountablity 2 месяца назад +1

      That part.

    • @littlebitofhope1489
      @littlebitofhope1489 2 месяца назад +1

      Well, I don't know why you can say Horseshit and I can't. But here we are.

  • @Venaloid
    @Venaloid 2 месяца назад +15

    I think the analogy of a computer simulation really obscures the fact that we're talking about thinking feeling beings here. I think most people, if faced with the choice of creating one of those two simulations, if they were reminded that these are real thinking feeling beings they were about to create, would create the perfect first world to avoid having all the blood on their hands from the other one.

  • @mibph9548
    @mibph9548 2 месяца назад +99

    this video can be summarized in: congratulations now heaven is pointless

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +15

      indeed!

    • @johngavin1175
      @johngavin1175 2 месяца назад +6

      Reminds me of Godless Engineer's opinion of heaven. Definitely dont wanna go.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад +1

      @@johngavin1175
      Heaven is misunderstood

    • @bloxygaming991
      @bloxygaming991 25 дней назад +1

      @@andrewwilson9183 Do not keep trying to convince non believers you and I believe in a beautiful reality and that is what God wants He wants us to believe with our faith he is real. Bless you 🙏

  • @johnnybravo9972
    @johnnybravo9972 2 месяца назад +61

    Comparing humanity to a computer program is so idiotic because the engineers can pull the plug or reset the program at literally any time, like God who is outside of Time and Space

    • @charlesclaridy8646
      @charlesclaridy8646 2 месяца назад +7

      God can't pull the plug or do a reset if he chooses?

    • @archapmangcmg
      @archapmangcmg 2 месяца назад +19

      They could also pull out one person, one instance of the code, run debug on it and do whatever changes, pop it back into a smaller simulation to see if the patch worked after running all their pre-checks, before putting it into general use.
      So damned many options for the engineers, including rewinding time locally (since they apparently have COMPLETE logs of everything already) or just .. yeah. God would have literally infinite better options than Original Sin, Heaven and Hell and natural disasters and all the BS.

    • @riseofdarkleela
      @riseofdarkleela 2 месяца назад +2

      @@archapmangcmgthanks for this comment that warms my nerdy heart

    • @war0nheaven
      @war0nheaven 2 месяца назад

      @@charlesclaridy8646it can't do anything as far as i'm concerned. especially when outside space and time.

    • @archapmangcmg
      @archapmangcmg 2 месяца назад +3

      @@riseofdarkleela My pleasure!
      @imbeggar's video is a study in how freaking incompetent the "perfect" god is. And how dull he is for not thinking of all the other options. He just blindly asserts that no other way can work.
      While showing that "another way" works by sending Jesus.
      He already NEEDS tweaking to be practical because that's what Christianity claims to be true.

  • @Dzemaily
    @Dzemaily 2 месяца назад +9

    OMG.. so many valid points man.. Every Christian needs to watch this.. the only answer is to say ‘his ways are not our ways’ cos there’s no way to explain this logically

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +4

      Appreciate that very much!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@Dzemaily I thought you atheists do not believe in objective morality

  • @TaylorReedHudson
    @TaylorReedHudson 2 месяца назад +135

    Hell isn’t for wrongdoers. It’s for non believers, regardless of how good or bad they were. The Bible makes that explicitly clear.

    • @BeccaYoley
      @BeccaYoley 2 месяца назад +9

      Bingo!

    • @Johnathan1800
      @Johnathan1800 2 месяца назад

      Do you not realize how screwed up that sounds though oh never mind I forgot you Christian’s don’t have an ounce of empathy.

    • @pratiwi16
      @pratiwi16 2 месяца назад +44

      Exactly like what a childhood teacher of mine said... No matter how good you are as a person, if you don't believe in god, you will end up in hell.. But if you are a bad person and do lots of bad things, but in the end, you surrender yourself to god and ask for forgiveness, every bad things will be forgiven and you're gonna go to heaven
      My brain as a child could not Accept it, so does my brain as an adult now

    • @thegreatgazoo7579
      @thegreatgazoo7579 2 месяца назад +1

      Let's see... God created hell because not believing in him is infinitely horrible, yet he isn't going to show you he exists well enough to make you believe......or......Priests invented the idea of hell in order to scare people into accepting the religion that supports them as priests. Which of these two is more likely?

    • @Johnathan1800
      @Johnathan1800 2 месяца назад +22

      @@TaylorReedHudson Do you not realize how messed up that whole idea is so everyone that never believed in their particular god gets torched forever not very loving or just.

  • @AV-of6yj
    @AV-of6yj 2 месяца назад +14

    You know that feeling when someone says something and you go, “that’s exactly what I was thinking, I just didn’t know how to put it into words and articulate it”…that’s how I feel whenever I watch these videos. Thank you, Brandon🙌🏼

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +3

      So glad to help vocalize!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@AV-of6yj I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @SydBodeker
    @SydBodeker 2 месяца назад +10

    Hearing problem of evil apologetics makes me wanna stick tooth picks in my eyes. Great video so far, every point you're making is on point. I appreciate you and what you do

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +3

      Same, its just so inexcusable. Thank you!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@SydBodeker the problem of evil is a fallacy

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@SydBodeker I thought you atheists do not believe in objective morality

  • @aaron_thatsmyname
    @aaron_thatsmyname 2 месяца назад +10

    28:09 "Oops! Does that offend someone?" Had me rolling. It is so ridiculous when you say it out loud.
    Thank you for continuing to take on subjects like this. It is so helpful in navigating the BS engrained in my thinking.

  • @suicune2001
    @suicune2001 2 месяца назад +31

    One issue with the whole free will argument is desires we're born with. I was born with a high amount of empathy. I don't WANT to harm anyone. I feel bad when I make others feel bad. So, do I lack free will? Do people who are just genuinely really nice and good people lack free will? Do priests who prey on children have more free will than me when their actions are also a result of a desire they were born with?
    Free will goes out the window when we're not all on the same playing field.

    • @blueStarKitt7924
      @blueStarKitt7924 2 месяца назад +1

      Yes, but those who prey children are not born with that desire, if I get it right.🤷

    • @suicune2001
      @suicune2001 2 месяца назад +4

      @@blueStarKitt7924 Some probably are since it's sooooo widespread. Others it might be a consequence of their upbringing which they had no control over.

    • @blueStarKitt7924
      @blueStarKitt7924 2 месяца назад

      @@suicune2001 🤔

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@suicune2001
      Will can override desires or augment them

    • @suicune2001
      @suicune2001 Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 Eh, to a point. Will is a finite resource. We don't have infinite amounts of it.

  • @jordanrobinson9064
    @jordanrobinson9064 2 месяца назад +20

    As a quote from the fictional character in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Fuhrer King Bradley once said: “God is nothing but a construct created by man to inspire fear and promote order”!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 2 месяца назад

      Sounds great, we need order

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@jordanrobinson9064 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @jordanrobinson9064
      @jordanrobinson9064 Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 Objective Morality is a human concept that only exists within humanity on Earth, not the entire cosmos itself, that is why atheist denies its existence.

  • @Anyox17
    @Anyox17 2 месяца назад +17

    Brandon!! This really is your magnum opus. So eloquently and intelligently articulated. It’s very interesting that suffering is what seems to make so many people turn toward/need religion. It was the opposite for me; facing the realities of immense suffering is what made me turn away from religion altogether. The magnitude of suffering that exists in this world should be enough to break any theological spell a person may be under. The fact that people see this suffering and double down defending god, even becoming pompous and narcissistic about it is absolutely mind blowing. Maddening and sinister!
    Thank you for your stellar work. Your channel has become my favorite!

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +3

      Thank you for all that very lovely feedback!

    • @saifernandez8622
      @saifernandez8622 2 месяца назад +2

      Thats the point, when you overfocus on your own suffering and feelings (narcissism) you belive on a personal being that somehow gives meaning to your life. when you focus on the whole picture, other people and creatures then you stop believing in personal gods.

    • @infinitedeath1384
      @infinitedeath1384 2 месяца назад +1

      ​@@MindShift-BrandonI can't help but reinforce the point. This may be the best video that any Atheist could possibly make, I really don't see anyone doing a better job than you.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад +1

      @@Anyox17
      Disagree, as an Atheist turned Deist I can honestly say that the argument from suffering against God, is the WORST argument for Atheism

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@infinitedeath1384 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @incredulouspasta3304
    @incredulouspasta3304 2 месяца назад +19

    _"At least they could say, 'we did it on our own'"_
    I immediately thought of the Tower of Babel.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +6

      right?! its such a weird claim of goodness

    • @incredulouspasta3304
      @incredulouspasta3304 2 месяца назад +1

      @@MindShift-Brandon Honestly, it's kind of refreshing to hear a Christian say that. I personally value personal accomplishment, but the Bible story condemns it.
      I think he'd have a ghost of a point, if he weren't trying to argue on behalf of Christianity.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@incredulouspasta3304 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @incredulouspasta3304
      @incredulouspasta3304 Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 1. Some atheists believe in objective morality, and some don't.
      2. Subjective morality doesn't imply there is no standard. A subjective standard is still a standard.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@incredulouspasta3304
      Not a standard that can levied at God. What is the foundation of objective morality if not God

  • @AssassinoJake
    @AssassinoJake 2 месяца назад +43

    14:29 "religion and philosophy, [but if you choose the wrong religion you burn for eternity]"

    • @DIYWeekend
      @DIYWeekend 2 месяца назад +1

      Judgement day won't be a theology exam.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@AssassinoJake
      Most Christians don’t believe that all non Christians are necessarily damned.
      Salvation is in a persons inner positive disposition towards God

  • @firebornliger
    @firebornliger 2 месяца назад +98

    I do love how, in order to defend their "tri-omni" God, they have to make his utterly incompetent, moronic, and an absolute rat-bastard.
    Of course, the tri-omni thing is so obviously a retcon to the mythology, that it alone creates all sorts of issues in elevating a former war-god into the entirety of his pantheon.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@firebornliger
      Is the God of Deism tri Omni?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@firebornliger I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @firebornliger
      @firebornliger Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183
      What you have just claimed is subjective morality.
      Moral standards that change a great deal over the course of the thousands of years the book was written, and thus change drastically within the book.

    • @firebornliger
      @firebornliger Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 "what standard,"
      The standard that causing direct harm for your own gain is some degree of wrong.
      Reductive, perhaps, but the baseline must be somewhere.
      This scales from killing an animal (or plant) for food being not wrong at all, as long as you attempt to not waste it.
      To many forms of harm being inflicted upon another human for nothing more than your own emotional fulfillment being drastically evil.
      This is the start of where your God becomes, not only amoral, but actively evil.
      In your mythology, all things, even the spirits of evil that he created, are within his control. He allows them to run rampant in the world to, in the words of the scripture, increase his glory. He lets evil exist simply for his own pride.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@firebornliger
      You did make a moral statement

  • @Charlotte_Martel
    @Charlotte_Martel 2 месяца назад +9

    This truly is your best video, Brandon! Mazel tov! You could not be more correct: if an existence w/o suffering is "boring" (the most insipid excuse that I've ever heard), then how will that change in heaven?

  • @jmwild1
    @jmwild1 2 месяца назад +21

    God is perfect, I guess that makes Him boring. "But He's God so He can't be boring!" Special pleading!

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +3

      Indeed!

    • @kevincrady2831
      @kevincrady2831 2 месяца назад +1

      Also, he can't suffer adversity (well, except for that one time when he incarnated as a human and had a really bad weekend for your sins), so he can't experience strength, victory, or heroism. Glory hog that he is, that must make him utterly miserable. Maybe that's why he's such a giant torture-monster.

    • @jmwild1
      @jmwild1 2 месяца назад +2

      @@kevincrady2831 God's a diva. He also gets really jealous if you even look in another deity's direction.

  • @justadude7752
    @justadude7752 2 месяца назад +87

    Ok but right from the beginning: no, if I was a PERFECT being I wouldnt even have the desire or want to create anything (nevermind not be able to create something without suffering). Because me just being me is perfect enough as is. No need for anyone or anything else👌

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +11

      Exactly! I get to this for sure

    • @justadude7752
      @justadude7752 2 месяца назад +6

      @@MindShift-Brandon guess I spoke to soon^^

    • @airbus7373
      @airbus7373 2 месяца назад

      Makes sense but ultimately they means you wouldn’t be here

    • @justadude7752
      @justadude7752 2 месяца назад +8

      @@airbus7373 yeah, and it wouldnt hurt me one bit, would it?

    • @airbus7373
      @airbus7373 2 месяца назад +2

      @@justadude7752 indeed, if that's how you feel, then there are options available. Options that I and everyone else would never want you to take. But also options that can heal you and make you come out the other side, like I did.
      I just can't fathom a world in which we don't exist. Bodies trapped, in nothing but blackness, without the ability to do anything.

  • @californiadoll6273
    @californiadoll6273 2 месяца назад +48

    You deserve an award!!! The way you use logic is incomparable to anyone else. You're definitely the #1 BEST atheist channel on RUclips!!! ❤

    • @Chuck-se5hh
      @Chuck-se5hh 2 месяца назад +5

      Indeed.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +6

      far too kind, but thank you.

    • @Jake-zc3fk
      @Jake-zc3fk 2 месяца назад +5

      Yes he is!

    • @TaylorReedHudson
      @TaylorReedHudson 2 месяца назад +9

      Agreed. There are other atheist RUclipsrs that I think might be a little more entertaining, but here he always gets straight to the point and hits the nail on the head so hard in ways that are just undeniable.

    • @Chuck-se5hh
      @Chuck-se5hh 2 месяца назад +5

      @@TaylorReedHudson Definitely true.

  • @timothymulholland7905
    @timothymulholland7905 2 месяца назад +20

    God's only fault, only weakness, that excuses everything, is that he doesn't exist.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@timothymulholland7905 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @James-wv3hx
    @James-wv3hx 2 месяца назад +36

    And if God knows the future. Then he wouldn't kneed to spend All of his time keeping track of everybody's sins.

    • @johntiggleman4686
      @johntiggleman4686 2 месяца назад +1

      @James-wv3hx BINGO!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@James-wv3hx I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @James-wv3hx
      @James-wv3hx Месяц назад +1

      @@andrewwilson9183 When I was 4 years old and heard about a talking snake I knew it was a scam. And when I was 8 years old my friend and I were walking behind a Church and the Pastor came out with a stick and told us to knock off the beautiful yellow flowers on acres of land because they were evil weeds. We just walked away. That creep had NO business telling us what to do! He was trying to groom us. Ammon Hillman says that Jesus was a pedo child sex trafficker. He explains it in Graffic details on the Danny Jones Podcast. He refuses any money offered to him. And he says that Preachers are hucksters and cowards because none will debate him.

    • @James-wv3hx
      @James-wv3hx Месяц назад +1

      @@andrewwilson9183 When I was 4 years old I thought Jesus was gay because he loved to wash men's feet and rub oil on each other's bodies like at P Diddy freakoffs. And that it's a sin to have sexual thoughts about women. Do Christian men have to think of Jesus to get an erection? Ammon Hillman says that Jesus was a pedo child sex trafficker in his interview on the Danny Jones Podcast.

  • @Shventastic
    @Shventastic 2 месяца назад +44

    I just can't understand the lack of imagination that goes into how they would create a world different than the god of the Bible. "Nope, ship shape!"

    • @brenatevi
      @brenatevi 2 месяца назад +8

      They are benefitting from the way the world is, so any change is seen as an attack on their benefits.

    • @archapmangcmg
      @archapmangcmg 2 месяца назад +6

      Omni-impotence and omni-incompetence are the hidden attributes of their omni-god.

    • @ziploc2000
      @ziploc2000 2 месяца назад +5

      I sometimes use the expression god-goggles, but really it's god-blinkers or a god-blindfold.
      Once you lock your thinking into "god-dunnit", and that god is a tri-omni god, you have to ignore a lot of things to retain that way of thinking. It curtails curiosity and imagination.

  • @ddab5345
    @ddab5345 2 месяца назад +6

    One of your best videos yet. Thank you for beeaking this video down and making it inescapablly simple.

  • @kettei7743
    @kettei7743 2 месяца назад +52

    Before going further in the video, one problem I found with ImBeggar's argument is the statement he does later on that a "permanent punishment" (alluding to eternal hell), this while small, is a devastating flaw because as you all know, no crime deserves infinite punishment. This is a problem that makes the PoS infinitely worse

    • @archapmangcmg
      @archapmangcmg 2 месяца назад +10

      Do you mean Problem of Suffering or Piece of Shit?
      I mean, the sentence works fine for both meanings!

    • @kettei7743
      @kettei7743 2 месяца назад +6

      @@archapmangcmg uhh, problem of suffering

    • @archapmangcmg
      @archapmangcmg 2 месяца назад +4

      @@kettei7743 Okay cos a being that would hurt someone (much less a lot of people) infinitely is also a PoS.

    • @archapmangcmg
      @archapmangcmg 2 месяца назад

      @BenJones-d8p Meanwhile, you're sentenced to go there for lying to Nazis to protect Jews.
      And next to you, a career politician who told nothing but self-serving lies. God's "justice"!

    • @Gringo7213
      @Gringo7213 2 месяца назад +3

      Second problem, what is punishment for eternity supposed to achieve? It certainly does not rehabilitate.

  • @James-wv3hx
    @James-wv3hx 2 месяца назад +31

    This is a perfect example of why I believe that it is All made up to scam people out of their money 🤑.

    • @n.c.1201
      @n.c.1201 2 месяца назад +2

      @@James-wv3hx Exactly. All the way back to Ananias and Sephira!!

    • @justanotheropinion5832
      @justanotheropinion5832 2 месяца назад +2

      Money plays a role, but politics/power is the raison d’être.
      Kinda convenient how god always favors the victor, and the victor is always the good guy.

    • @tradergirljam
      @tradergirljam 2 месяца назад +1

      Scamvangelism in a nutshell 😂

    • @ulysses7653
      @ulysses7653 2 месяца назад +1

      I think religion was the first attempt at answering questions.
      It was the first attempt at philosophy.
      But as the age of religion increased, so did the number of opportunists and conformists.

  • @chig0mate18
    @chig0mate18 2 месяца назад +4

    imbeggar used to be my go-to channel when I was a Christian so I was READY for your response to this video

  • @ellyam991
    @ellyam991 2 месяца назад +35

    Imagine programming these simulations in a way where there's freedom, but only between good choices. There a bot could choose between excercise or visiting their grandma, we just erase the possibility of thinking about, oh idontknow, child abuse. No rewriting of anything, no monitoring bad thoughs, just not even having the capacity to from the get go. We could have greatness in exploring the universe, in developing art, in teaching one another stuff, all without things like cancer. Maybe the programmes wouldn't find such a world as interesting, but why is their opinion the only one that matters here and not the ones from their test subjects?

    • @DIYWeekend
      @DIYWeekend 2 месяца назад

      Good cannot exist without evil. If you could put a computer chip in your child's brain to force them to only ever do or be good, would you? Do you not see the ethical problems that arise when robbing someone of their agency? Would your kid be better off living like some sort of ant drone, only doing what you tell them to do, or would it be better if they had the ability to be evil but chose to be good instead?

    • @ellyam991
      @ellyam991 2 месяца назад +5

      @@DIYWeekend no. I'm not talking about forcing people to follow one straight path, but to choose between a giant collection of good paths. That doesn't take agency away, and makes for a better world where cancer and child abuse are not concepts one could even consider

    • @DIYWeekend
      @DIYWeekend 2 месяца назад

      @@ellyam991 good compared to what?

    • @ellyam991
      @ellyam991 2 месяца назад +5

      @@DIYWeekend against what god/the programmers knew could happen. They are said to be all knowing after all. If this seems strange, consider they designed a heavenly place where the good bots go where no evil happens, so they could've just done that from the start

    • @Uryvichk
      @Uryvichk 2 месяца назад

      @@DIYWeekend "Good cannot exist without evil. If you could put a computer chip in your child's brain to force them to only ever do or be good, would you?"
      No, because I don't believe in violating someone else's consent, but you've poisoned the well by phrasing it this way. Let's remove the well-poisoning and ask the real question: Would YOU put a computer chip in YOUR OWN brain to force yourself to only ever do good?
      The answer is yes, yes I would. Obviously I would. Why wouldn't I? The chip makes it so that I can only ever do or be good. That's good, by definition. I want that. I SHOULD want that, because I should desire to do more good things and fewer bad things, and this chip lets me do only good things and no bad things. So obviously I should get the chip installed in my brain. Would you not? Why do you want the ability to do evil? What possible reason could you have for leaving open the possibility of not doing good? Do you WANT to do evil?
      You see, when the question is put this way, suddenly it no longer is quite the gotcha you might think it is. It is in fact perfectly rational to render yourself unable to do wrong and only able to do good. Everyone of sound mind should get such a chip installed, provided it is safe and can't malfunction and actually does what it claims to do.

  • @TheSkyGuy77
    @TheSkyGuy77 2 месяца назад +5

    If I created my own world, I wouldn't make disease a thing.
    I wouldn't make psychopaths incapable of empathy.
    I wouldn't make a world of total perfection, but it wouldn't have extreme unnecessary suffering either.

  • @hamobu
    @hamobu 2 месяца назад +23

    If suffering is the result of free will, I wonder if there's more free will in Sudan then in Sweden.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +5

      really interesting point that would be fun to play with.

    • @airbus7373
      @airbus7373 2 месяца назад +2

      Admittedly I have a friend from the Dominican Republic, going to college in the US, who says there’s more free will there, although it’s less safe. People do get used to their environments

    • @michaelhenry1763
      @michaelhenry1763 2 месяца назад +2

      Ironically, people in dire, suffering situations have less free-will, not more.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@hamobu
      Willful evil is a consequence of free will. Some evil is inculpable

  • @roykalager2360
    @roykalager2360 2 месяца назад +42

    The people who think a peaceful world would be boring. Are not creative. People would be more open and fun in general. If they didn't have to worry about so many things. If they realized how much suffering stifles/restricts people.

    • @whitemountainapache3297
      @whitemountainapache3297 2 месяца назад +10

      Yes, pain doesn't bring people closer to God, but makes them angry.

    • @roykalager2360
      @roykalager2360 2 месяца назад +7

      @@whitemountainapache3297 Happiness is a way better way of bring people together.

    • @michaelhenry1763
      @michaelhenry1763 2 месяца назад

      I know right. That is why societies do not flourish is war zones.

    • @AllanPeak-ye5qs
      @AllanPeak-ye5qs 2 месяца назад +3

      My creativity went way down when I was sick.

    • @roykalager2360
      @roykalager2360 2 месяца назад +1

      @@AllanPeak-ye5qs That does happens. But when the pain goes away you will be able to think more.

  • @jamie5mauser
    @jamie5mauser 2 месяца назад +42

    Dang even a world without human trafficking alone would be so much of a better place. And the lack of trafficking would somehow make this world boring? That’s a serious stretch

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +12

      yup, its a truly gross excuse.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@jamie5mauser I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 15 дней назад

      @CrabO2
      Your statement is irrelevant to my statement.
      You do not believe in objective good.
      As for human trafficking, God allows it, thus it is good somehow, though it still violates the prescriptions of providence

  • @Fearia6
    @Fearia6 2 месяца назад +68

    If you find the idea of world peace boring, please seek therapy.

    • @blacknbougie8021
      @blacknbougie8021 2 месяца назад +6

      Right‼️💯‼️just think of the fun ppl could have if we didn't have to worry about such things. The very ppl who will perish from famine, dissentary, Malaria etc, imagine the creative ways they'd entertain themselves & others by simply not having to worry about sickness. I have no doubt through hunger & disease alone, we've lost some incredible ppl. Innovators, inventors, scientists etc.

    • @Viky.A.V.
      @Viky.A.V. 2 месяца назад +1

      Brilliant! It' really scary how many people out there need therapy(

    • @blueStarKitt7924
      @blueStarKitt7924 2 месяца назад

      ​@@blacknbougie8021Yes.😔

    • @pinky9440
      @pinky9440 2 месяца назад

      Imagine how boring heaven is going to be.

    • @infinitedeath1384
      @infinitedeath1384 2 месяца назад +2

      @@Fearia6 Honestly peaceful times bring fun. If people are not suffering and not at war, we will create good ways to entertain ourselves. Look at all the art people have created, movies, tv shows, anime, and video games. Freaking video games! They're the most fun in my opinion. And they want to believe that life without suffering is boring? It's just so absurd.

  • @goldenalt3166
    @goldenalt3166 2 месяца назад +14

    Proposal for free-will preserving world patch 4.0:
    1. Children under age 3 are immune to natural disasters, infection and cancer.
    2. A person who's suffering can accept heaven and immediately die.
    (Engineers confirmed these patches don't break free will or turn everyone into robots.)

    • @adriani9432
      @adriani9432 2 месяца назад

      Why only children under the age of 3? Why can't everyone be immune to cancer?

    • @goldenalt3166
      @goldenalt3166 2 месяца назад

      @@adriani9432 Apparently, some people may want cancer, or to cause cancer, or to overcome cancer, or to cure cancer. I figure 3yo is about the emotional age of Adam and Eve's sin so we start getting into conflict with the Bible at some older ages.
      Apparently, God is mighty invested in free will until you die.

  • @meertin298
    @meertin298 2 месяца назад +19

    Pain could hurt half as much as it does and it would still provide enough evolutionary impetus for the species but would limit our misery.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@meertin298
      By what standard is misery bad?

    • @meertin298
      @meertin298 Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 Let's instead call it suffering. Physical suffering requires no philosophical standard of good or bad. Pain beyond a certain threshold is objectively bad for the animal experiencing it. A gazelle having its bones crushed under the force of a lion's bite is objectively bad for the gazelle. I know where your question is leading, and it doesn't work with physical pain.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@meertin298
      Are you not making a prescriptive statement?

  • @thomashugus5686
    @thomashugus5686 2 месяца назад +10

    You sir are my favorite anti-apologist!! Extremely well presented, logical and rational!!

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад

      Thank you so much for that!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@thomashugus5686 I thought you atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So by what standard do you assume that suffering is bad, and that God shouldn’t cause suffering?

  • @BeccaYoley
    @BeccaYoley 2 месяца назад +10

    17:42 Great point! If suffering is necessary for happiness, then why do Christian parents strive to keep their children away from harm?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад +1

      @@BeccaYoley That is a good point, but the argument from suffering is still a terrible argument.

  • @RegalLouise247
    @RegalLouise247 2 месяца назад +11

    I think the "you'd have done it the same way" argument is so privileged. Imagine going to a starving child in Turkana and tellin him, "if you had God's power and were the one who made it, you'd have made it so you'd still have to slowly starve to death ".

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@RegalLouise247 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @JamesRichardWiley
    @JamesRichardWiley 2 месяца назад +38

    Pointless suffering perfectly cancels out the claim of a loving, compassionate all powerful god.
    God does not "allow" suffering, He CREATES suffering. He is the Creator of all things.
    The twisted logic of mister anonymous @imbeggar‬ is a perfect example of what religion (god belief) does to an otherwise intelligent person.
    This is how you share and spread cognitive dissonance.

    • @blueStarKitt7924
      @blueStarKitt7924 2 месяца назад +1

      😔😔😔

    • @NightmareRex6
      @NightmareRex6 2 месяца назад

      well humasn free will cause lots the suffering, God is reponsable for etenaly roasting in hell tho for not beliving right "faith"!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 2 месяца назад

      God determines what is good. God allows suffering, because there is some sufficient goodness to it. Even if we don’t understand it.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@JamesRichardWiley I thought you atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So by what standard do you assume that suffering is bad, and that God shouldn’t cause suffering?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@NightmareRex6
      That isn’t even what most Christians believe

  • @DAYSE368
    @DAYSE368 2 месяца назад +3

    Your arguments completely demolish this awful myth of a good god full of love.
    What a relief to watch this video!!! 👏👏👏

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад

      Thank you very much!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@DAYSE368 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @widescreennavel
    @widescreennavel 2 месяца назад +19

    In Exodus, God clearly states that if "God lets it happen" a murderer can go to a designated safe zone. That's pretty on the nose.

  • @BluStarGalaxy
    @BluStarGalaxy 2 месяца назад +31

    In Imbeggar’s example he has the individuals given the concepts of right and wrong when they were created. So not like the Genesis account where knowledge of right and wrong is only obtained after eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You need knowledge to be able to resist the temptation but the temptation is the knowledge. Insane.

    • @niddy-2.0
      @niddy-2.0 2 месяца назад +1

      Not to mention that post-fall, whatever the "embedded goodness & evil" software patch is an absolute joke. PROVE that all societies, for all time, didn't accept at least ONE violent, oppressive, dismissive, ignorant with no ability, or understanding to push back on it. They may have some consensus on some, but the point is one disables the patch for that time & place.

    • @norrecvizharan1177
      @norrecvizharan1177 2 месяца назад +6

      I know right, and that’s on top of how ridiculous it is to put the “do not touch!” Tree right smack dab in the middle of their living area (aka the garden).

    • @BluStarGalaxy
      @BluStarGalaxy 2 месяца назад +5

      @@norrecvizharan1177 Yep, putting the tree there and then creating the snake to tell them to eat from it. Seems like this deity was literally doing everything in his power to make them disobey him. Omniscient yet pretends like he is giving them a choice. He knew what the result would be. It’s like a game of “how can I mess with them to keep myself entertained.”

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +5

      yes, quite a few times he was unwilling to have it all start as poorly as the perfect god of his religion did.

    • @BluStarGalaxy
      @BluStarGalaxy 2 месяца назад +3

      ⁠​⁠@@MindShift-BrandonI bet it was very intentional also. He didn’t pick the plan in Genesis because it would make his deity look bad. He picks a different one. How can one improve on perfection? 🤪

  • @elizabethduran3435
    @elizabethduran3435 2 месяца назад +4

    I’m new to your channel, thanks to the podcast with Kristy Burke (I follow her). Your arguments are well thought and explained in a way easy to understand. I wish my evangelical family and friends would see your videos with an open mind! Thank you!

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +1

      Appreciate that very much and thanks for coming over!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@elizabethduran3435 I thought you atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So by what standard do you assume that suffering is bad?

  • @CatDaddyGuitar
    @CatDaddyGuitar 2 месяца назад +22

    Haha, so the "engineers" who can intervene into the thoughts of their "robots" have to have a mediator now to communicate their thoughts and intentions for them? Perfectly logical conclusion.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +4

      lol! yup

    • @johngavin1175
      @johngavin1175 2 месяца назад +2

      I dunno if I considered it clever or obnoxious how he just slid robot Jesus in there. 😂

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@CatDaddyGuitar
      Well if that is what God decided then it’s what God decided

    • @CatDaddyGuitar
      @CatDaddyGuitar Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 What God? Which God? The one who wants to be worshipped "above all other Gods " , but remains hidden, behaves like a typical tribal god and has just as much agency in your life as a Marvel character? Groovy 👍🏼 let me know when you can actually show that.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@CatDaddyGuitar the vague God of monotheism

  • @jaclynlevy5644
    @jaclynlevy5644 2 месяца назад +4

    Truly one of your best. Perfection might not exist, but this video is close!

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад

      Ha! Too kind

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@jaclynlevy5644 I thought you atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So by what standard do you assume that suffering is bad, and that God shouldn’t cause suffering?

  • @VelmadeM0naco
    @VelmadeM0naco 2 месяца назад +12

    It would a good idea Brandon to do a separate video on the zoroastrian influence on Christianity, esp given the problem of evil argument.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@VelmadeM0naco I thought you atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So by what standard do you assume that suffering is objectively bad?

    • @VelmadeM0naco
      @VelmadeM0naco Месяц назад

      @andrewwilson9183 I was referring to the problem of evil in a zoroastrian dualistic context. Evil can be explained with zoroastrianism because there is a separate God of evil called Angra Maniyu that was not created by the 'good' god Ahura Mazda. I'm obv simplifying the issue, but that's the general context. As for my own morality, now I can't speak for all atheists, but I tend to get my sense of good and evil from my ability to empathize with others.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@VelmadeM0naco
      My argument is that if there is no objective good or evil, then God if real, is morally neutral.
      So you can’t simultaneously claim that the idea of God is evil and that objective morality doesn’t exist simultaneously.

  • @RevenantStar
    @RevenantStar 2 месяца назад +54

    Immediately I could tell the IMbeggar guy has no idea what he's talking about by his assertions about Ai

  • @Daniel-tj6ux
    @Daniel-tj6ux Месяц назад +4

    I really glad stumble at your channel and it really helped me alot since i begin my deconstructing journey. Love from indonesia ❤

    • @adriani9432
      @adriani9432 Месяц назад +2

      Hello! Ex-Muslim turned atheist from Indonesia! As ex-members of Abrahamic faiths, I feel a sense of comraderie with ex-Christians in the fight against toxic religion, and indeed ex-Christians played a pivotal role in my deconversion.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  Месяц назад +1

      Thanks for being here!

  • @aak2931
    @aak2931 2 месяца назад +13

    Excited for this one!!!

  • @mmoreno7137
    @mmoreno7137 2 месяца назад +8

    To me one of his mistakes is saying we have to make a simulation world that exactly mirrors the real world. Many people I have talked things over with would have made a different world in the first place. Many have said they would eliminate predation or animal suffering. So this guys proof is just I'm making stuff up? How is it an inevitable effect of intervention that the simulation would crash? I mean this guys microphone glitched what he really said was "everything worked out and it was perfection."

  • @mrnaizguy
    @mrnaizguy 2 месяца назад +6

    My friend is a biologist who yesterday told me that in some parts of the world praying mantises catch small birds, firmly hold them with their strong arms and eat them alive. How exactly is this level of suffering necessary for the free will of humans?

  • @jessosaikh
    @jessosaikh 2 месяца назад +7

    Deconstructing is so scary.. I don’t sleep at night anymore because I’m scared that if God is real He will drag me to hell

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +6

      keep going! it gets better and easier. Just keep learning.

    • @2pacaveli257
      @2pacaveli257 2 месяца назад +2

      Trust me, biblical God in the bible is not real, especially ex Christians knowledge, just live your life with morals and gratitude, life is a evolution from a matrix simulation !

    • @jessosaikh
      @jessosaikh 2 месяца назад +1

      @@MindShift-Brandon Thank you very much 🙏

  • @GarrettRHall
    @GarrettRHall 2 месяца назад +5

    Brandon, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, although I admire and respect all of your work, it’s these videos that you present with such passion, fire, honesty, and vulnerability that really have the greatest impact in my opinion. It’s one thing to break down arguments with rationality and a scholarly approach, it’s quite another when you simply come at this from a human being and present the thoughts and experiences that you’ve endured when engaging with Christianity. I can so relate to everything you’ve said here. Thanks for another incredible video. And that dude’s video that you deconstructed was absolutely absurd. It amazes me that Christians would actually think so little about the content they’re creating.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад

      Thank you so much man

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@GarrettRHall I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @leslieyancey5084
    @leslieyancey5084 2 месяца назад +9

    I would much prefer boredom over what we have now. At least the boredom would be peaceful!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@leslieyancey5084 I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @devourlordasmodeus
    @devourlordasmodeus 2 месяца назад +4

    I can understand and appreciate how good waters tastes without having to have been extremely thirsty, I can like food without having to have starved, I don't get why so many people have this problem apparently but it makes absolutely no sense.

  • @ssstbc
    @ssstbc 2 месяца назад +3

    This guy must've just watched The Matrix Reloaded....his premise is the speech given by the Architect! Another great vid, Brandon, thanks 👍

  • @Devious_Dave
    @Devious_Dave 2 месяца назад +3

    Good, thorough vid. Hopefully IMBeggar will see it & reflect on the evident inconsistencies in his religious thinking.

  • @ReasonQuest
    @ReasonQuest 2 месяца назад +5

    Brutal honest insight, Brandon. Excellent video. Your point about natural disasters could have applied to question #6. "If all the bots freely chose to follow the protocols, or Him, would there be any evil and suffering?" Well, evil (depending on how it's defined) no. But suffering, yes, because there are outside influences not controlled by the bots, nor written into their protocols (that the engineers allow), such as natural disaster.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад

      Thanks so much!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@ReasonQuest I thought you atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So by what standard do you assume that suffering is bad, and that God shouldn’t cause suffering?

    • @ReasonQuest
      @ReasonQuest Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 Do you not agree that suffering is bad? Why do you try to avoid suffering? If you are like most people, and you think useless suffering is bad, you certainly don't get that morality from God; "his book" is full of needless suffering-at his own hand.
      I get my morality the same place we all do: culture, societal norms, the drive to succeed, and learned human empathy. This is why "morality" changes from culture to culture and group to group. I bet the Puritans who settled in the New World-people who believed in the same God and Bible you probably do-would be horrified to see what goes on in churches today. Just the clothing would make them shudder.
      If "God's objective morality"-from the Bible-is the standard for life on Earth, you can have it; I want nothing to do with it.

  • @Fox_of_Void
    @Fox_of_Void 2 месяца назад +3

    I can't imagine being bored in a world where I know I'm safe to live in and be around other people, no mental illness to tire me out and no long hours at work that take up all my time in a day. There's just too much to do and explore to ever be bored.

  • @AcerbusFive
    @AcerbusFive 2 месяца назад +3

    Brother, you Christi, Derek, and Mr Hitchens have helped me break the chains of religious slavery this last year and a half

  • @MattDaMediaGuy
    @MattDaMediaGuy 2 месяца назад +5

    I think this @iambeggar is a perfect example of a confusion among many people. They don't seem to differentiate between knowledge and some guy just saying stuff. This content is like the fast food of apologetics. I hope we adopt critical thinking as a virtue in our society soon. Otherwise we're vulnerable to people like this.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +2

      yes, if you need proof of this, go look at the comments on his video. Awareness and education are powerful tools!

    • @MattDaMediaGuy
      @MattDaMediaGuy 2 месяца назад +1

      @@MindShift-Brandon If I'm being honest I think we are making our way into a brighter future. Religion is waning and our systems seem to be showing signs of improving. Its almost like our immune system is finally learning to fight the infection. Its ironic, the more power Christians try to grab the more they are exposed and the more pushback the general public gives. But I could be wrong, no idea.

  • @ryanerickson3063
    @ryanerickson3063 2 месяца назад +3

    So in order for some people to feel like they are better than everyone else untold people must suffer and we are all held back.

  • @LL-kh6gv
    @LL-kh6gv 2 месяца назад +4

    Bro, your logic is really really good. So many power points to take away.

    • @MindShift-Brandon
      @MindShift-Brandon  2 месяца назад +1

      so glad to hear it, thank you!

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@LL-kh6gv I thought you atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So by what standard do you assume that suffering is bad, and that God shouldn’t cause suffering?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@LL-kh6gv I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@LL-kh6gv I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

  • @TaeyxBlack
    @TaeyxBlack 2 месяца назад +25

    this is one of the biggest points of double-speak in christianity: adam and eve were terrible sinners who wanted to go their own way and defy god, sinning against a perfect being and dooming all of humanity to death and eternal suffering. through the exact same action, they were also responsible for instantiating the very element necessary for the best possible world, saving us from a life of robotic boredom. they are simultaneously our undoing and our saviors.

    • @andrewwilson9183
      @andrewwilson9183 Месяц назад

      @@TaeyxBlack I thought Atheists didn’t believe in objective morality. So how can you judge the goodness or existence of God by a standard you don’t believe exists?

    • @TaeyxBlack
      @TaeyxBlack Месяц назад

      @@andrewwilson9183 where in my comment am i judging the morality or existence of a god?