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Africans we’re also the true Jewish peoples and the original American Indians and Vikings and Queen Elizabeth was African but racist won’t acknowledge it. ✊🏾✊🏾
I love this my Grandfather took me around to many places I have seen the Ziggurat of Syria, pyramids of Egypt and Incas - and study cultures for around the world.... The problem is not that she is black the problem is someone taking the culture and twisting it like a white man playing Obama the 1st black president and saying this is a documentary of Reality.....
The truly ironic thing is that Cleopatra was "THE OPPRESSOR" The Ptolemies were a foreign Macedonian Greek dynasty that ruled over the native Egyptians for 300 years. It's telling that in all that time, only one Ptolemy, the last one, Cleopatra herself, even bothered to learn the Egyptian language. Cleopatra's Egypt was not the Egypt of the pharoahs and the pyramids, it was Greek Egypt. An Egypt dominated by a Greek ruling class.
They all had Egyptian names. And held Egyptian religion and culture. There's one contemporary source and mostly destroyed. We actually have very little evidence on their racial make up after 300 years of living in Africa as gods. All we can do is believe a family tree that we know is missing the multiple wives and concubines of each person on the tree. Let's put this in perspective the debate is around the necessary purity of blood of lady with multiple baby daddies and multiple husbands all of whom had wives. You're a white god and Beyoncé feeds you grapes what do you do? 99.9% of all men make black babies. 😂
That is absolutely correct. Although I wouldn't call her an 'oppressor'. Heavy word I mean she was queen after a 300 year old dynasty in a setting of Kingdoms at the time (all Greek). It's basically how the world was run back then, plus before the Ptolemey dynasty, Egypt was under Persian rule and had basically welcomed Alexander with open arms getting him to be crowned in the desert as a Pharao and depicting him with a horn in his head in their paintings and statues. Greeks had deep respect for Egyptians and vice verca. The Ptolemay dynasty while indeed was the ruling class and did not learn or marry Egyptians, made a series of advancments (lighthouse and library of Alexandria) build an amazing network of trade from Egypt, and basically made the coutnry the scientific and philosophic center of the world. Math, science and astronomy took off from 300 bc to 100 ad all with Greek support. It was a great example of two ancient civilizations co-existing and the proof of that is that we see no uprivals from Egyptians to Greek rule. Instead there was deep respect between cultures. That is why 'Oppression' is a heavy word. Thanks
Can't agree here, although the Macedonian were the colonizers, the Egyptians accepted Cleopatra vii as one of their own because she learned the language and was for the people.... The Greeks got their math from the Egyptians or Babylonians who got it from other Africans. Pythagoras basically put out what he learned from the egyptians and pyramids he did not create it. Another thing is the science/alchemy, even Herodotus said this. Lastly, it's documented that one of the Cleopatra sisters was mixed race and also documented that her father was not fully Macedonian as he was the product of an affair.
Cleopatra's ethnicity is not the real problem, the real problem is that people roughly divide people into two dualistic extremes, blacks and whites, which is actually childish and absurd because in reality there are more than two tones in the spectrum. And because this spectrum of hues is vast and diverse, people don't agree on what they mean and who they count as "black" and "white."
Anwar Sadat’s mother was Sudanese and these ignorant modern day Egyptians got pissed about Louis Gossett jr playing him, but didn’t say shit about the 10 commandments movie or The Mummy or Exodus Gods and Kings.
@@adpowell1414 the college I went to automatically assigned most non-white people as being "black" no matter what they considered themselves. You're from India studying here internationally? Black. And so on.
@@bricktwo5849 I found it bull shit that these modern day Egyptians whinning about cleopatra being portrayed by a biracial woman, never once stood up for Mr Hefny who the 🇺🇸 wanted him to claim whiteness
The basis of Jada Pinkett's Cleopatra is "I don't care what they tell you in school, cleopatra was black" She is literally perpetuating African American's own prejudice that they are uneducated. The fact that Jada is also claiming this to be a *Documentary* is a problem - she is trying to claim that her show is factual. This wouldn't have received such criticisms if she made this as a work of fiction.
Emblem of America1798.We aren't black or African American look up the definition of American Webster1828.We are the copper colored people .The real American Indian. Europeans did the same thing in Egypt.Your Miseducated
Of course African Americans are “uneducated “ because we don’t believe the systematic teachings that a white person try to get us to believe. Anything in Africa is of black descent…
No that isn’t the basis of it. That was just an exerpt from someone’s commentary from the project, which by the way ISN’T even released yet! 😂😂 So what are you trying to summarize? 😂 you haven’t even seen it.
@@gew2027 Idiot Agyptians Love us until Today we Help Ägypt back in Time and we like them To Stop Trashtalk and put all europeans in bad Light read the History before
No you’re an Arab Caucasian just like the current colonizers that proclaim to be from the lineage of ancient Kemet. Just like the paintings and busts and how the Greeks called them the sun kissed people your Arab brothers conquered and are attempting to steal history bc you lack your own.
1) Egyptians aren’t Arabs. 2) Hawass is full of crap, and he’s going to be destroyed be the scientific community. 3) in total there have been 7 Cleopatras. The last one is the one with the controversy. This last one was perhaps of Ptolemaic descent. We never had any DNA extraction. 4) however, the Cleopatra that is talked about was found to allegedly have mixed heritage (biracial). Based on cranial metrics she’s “biracial”. Not sure if the measured her limb ratio and body portions. That could contribute to her being tropical adapted, intermediate or cold adapted. 5) many older studies considered Egyptians (Northeast Africans) to be of biracial descent. Modern anthropology has confirmed that ancient Egyptians mostly were indigenous in situ development (local evolution). And during the recent invasions in Egypt, these authors claimed that Egyptians were a nation of biracial people. That is what Europeans themselves wrote. This was between the 16th and 18th century. Now, what did they look like and who were the ancient Egyptians, based on modern science? "Many of the sites reveal evidence of important interactions between Nilotic and Saharan groups during the formative phases of the Egyptian Predynastic Period (e.g. Wadi el-Hôl, Rayayna, Nuq’ Menih, Kurkur Oasis). Other sites preserve important information regarding the use of the desert routes during the Protodynastic and Pharaonic Periods, particularly during periods of political and military turmoil in the Nile Valley (e.g. Gebel Tjauti, Wadi el-Hôl)." (Yale University Department of Egyptology, Theban Desert Road Survey and Yale Toshka Desert Survey) *Some groups (using cemeteries E-01-2, E-03-1, E-03-2, and E-09-4) show some affiliation with sub-Saharan Africans, readable in the pottery assemblage and other grave goods, as well as some morphological features “ (Irish 2010; Kobusiewicz and Kabaciński 2010; Czekaj-Zastawny and Kabaciński 2015).* *”There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.* *In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas* [...] Any interpretation of the biological affinities of the ancient Egyptians must be placed in the context of hypothesis informed by the archaeological, linguistic, geographic or other data. *In this context the physical anthropological evidence indicates that the early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation.* This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection influenced by culture and geography" (Kathryn A. Bard, Egyptians, physical anthropology of Physical anthropology (2015)) “The process of the peopling of the Nile Valley likely shaped the population structure and early biological similarity of Egyptians and Nubians. As others have noted, affinity among Nilotic populations was due to an aggregation of events, including environmental, linguistic, and sociopolitical changes over a great deal of time. This study seeks to *evaluate the relationships of Nubian and Egyptian groups in the context of the original peopling event.* Cranial nonmetric traits from 18 Nubian and Egyptian samples, *spanning Lower Egypt to Lower Nubia and approximately 7400 years,* were analyzed using Mahalanobis D2 as a measure of biological distance. A principal coordinates analysis and spatial-temporal model were applied to these data. The results reveal temporal and spatial patterning *consistent with documented events in Egyptian and Nubian population history. Moreover, the Mesolithic Nubian sample clustered with later Nubian and Egyptian samples,* indicating that events prior to *the Mesolithic were important in shaping the later genetic patterning of the Nubian population.* Later contact through the establishment of the Egyptian fort at Buhen, Kerma’s position as a strategic trade center along the Nile, and Egyptian colonization at Tombos *maintained genetic similarity among the populations”* (Godde K, A new analysis interpreting Nilotic relationships and peopling of the Nile Valley (July 2018)) “Post-Pleistocene climatic improvement in the Northern Hemisphere after ca. 9550 BC allowed human populations to recolonize large parts of North Africa in what is today the Sahara Desert. In the Egyptian Western Desert, the beginnings of human occupation date as early as ca. 9300 BC. Occupation continued until the middle of the third millennium BC when final desertification of the area no longer afforded human occupation. The settlement of the Neolithic cattle and sheep/goat herders developed along with the rhythm of alternating wet and dry climatic oscillations. One of the areas occupied intensively during the early and middle Holocene was Gebel Ramlah. Pastoral populations established their settlements around the shores of a paleo-lake adjacent to a rocky massif, to exploit the local savannah environment. During most of the Neolithic, they buried their dead dispersed outside of their settlements. Only during the Final Neolithic (after ca. 4600 BC) did they place them exclusively in cemeteries. Of six Final Neolithic cemeteries investigated at Gebel Ramlah to date, one is entirely unprecedented, not only in North Africa but also globally at such an early date. For just under 200 years (ca. 4500-4300 BC), it served exclusively for the inhumation of infants who died around (perinate) or shortly after the time of birth (neonate). Thirty-two burial pits contained skeletal remains of 39 individuals, not only infants but also at least two adult females accompanied by perinates/neonates. Older children (> 3 years) were interred at a nearby cemetery that primarily comprised adults. […] The area around Gebel Ramlah was settled since the beginning of the Early Neolithic, and the density of settlement reached its maximum during the El Jerar phase (climatic optimum of the Holocene). Traces from the Middle, Late, and Final Neolithic are less intensive and random. In fact, for the Final Neolithic, we have more information on mortuary behavior than for the settlement pattern and subsistence. Between 4500 and 4300 BC, south-western fringes of the Gebel Ramlah lake served as an extended burial ground for different populations. Different ancestry and relationships of these populations can be followed on the basis of archaeological and, partially, bioarchaeological arguments. These people were certainly mobile, perhaps spending only a few months per year at Gebel Ramlah. The E-09-02 cemeteries for neonates and adults belonged to another, more sedentary group with limited mobility; however, we cannot trace their origins based on the available record. An almost complete lack of grave goods does not allow comparative analyses. On the other hand, peculiar characters of the skeletal remains at these cemeteries-numerous neonatal/perinatal individuals and poorly preserved subadults/adults-do not allow reliable studies based on craniometric or dental data. But, qualitatively, there are no obvious differences among all populations from Gebel Ramlah at the beginning of the Final Neolithic. Thus, the two groups, culturally different, were likely not much different biologically, possibly deriving from the same region of Africa. […] Ethnographic data offer support by showing how radically different children are treated in various African societies (Gottlieb 2004a, b; Pawlik 2004; Kabaciński et al. (2018)).” (Agnieszka Czekaj-Zastawny & Tomasz Goslar & Joel D. Irish & Jacek Kabaciński, Gebel Ramlah-a Unique Newborns’ Cemetery of the Neolithic Sahara,African Archaeological Review volume 35, pages393-405(2018))
@@wa-bu3ke And on top of that. “According to this recent study modern Egyptians are 80% non-African and 20% African. And the non-African admixtures are dated to around 750 years ago. Well, after the foundation of Ancient Egypt or the precursor cultures (Badarians, Tasians, Nabta Playa, etc). […] "Using ADMIXTURE and principal-component analysis (PCA) (Figure 1A), we estimated the average proportion of non-African ancestry in the Egyptians to be 80% and dated the midpoint of the admixture event by using ALDER20 to around 750 years ago (Table S2), consistent with the Islamic expansion and dates reported previously." (Luca Pagan et al., Tracing the Route of Modern Humans out of Africa by Using 225 Human Genome Sequences from Ethiopians and Egyptians) “The Late Period is often singled out as the time when mass immigration into Egypt altered the character of the country” (A Companion to Ancient History Edited by Andrew Erskine -2009) The Muslim conquerors did not attempt a mass conversion of Christianity to Islam, if only because that would have reduced the taxes non-Muslims were compelled to pay, but a number of other factors were at work. Arab “men could marry Christian women and their children would become Muslim. Large-scale Arab immigration into Egypt began during the eighth century.” (A History of Egypt: From Earliest Times to the Present by Jason Thompson - 2009) Trinkhaus found Holocene Egyptians plotting nearer to, or resemble more other tropically adapted peoples like Pygmies, US Blacks and Melanesians. The closest match is with fellow Africans. Southern Europeans like Yugoslavs, Northern Europeans like Belgians, and white Americans are more distant from the US blacks and Egyptians. (Trinkhaus, E. (1981) ‘Neanderthal limb proportions and cold adaptation’. p. 211). Trinkhaus’s results confirm studies going back to the 1950s, and recent limb studies by Zakrewski (2003). Raxter, Ruff et. al. (2008) applied limb analysis to ancient Egyptians. The outcome was the same. US Blacks linked closer to the Egyptians, than whites. (Raxter & Ruff, et al. (2008) Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians. Amer J. Phy Anthro 136 (2), 147-55.)
I like Bridgerton, and I'm not gonna go all "OMG. they Blackwashed Queen Charlotte!". But Bridgerton is a lighthearted playing around with history and is not pretending to be in any way factual. This series is marketed as a documentary, and with that comes stricter standards for trying to be objectively correct.
@@babyboy562 she hasnt are u dummy or something? how many times you ignorants will ignore history Moor means muslim as simple as that even Spanish muslims were called moor and vast majortiy of moors were middle eastern and north african meaning neither white (european) neither black (sub saharan african) in fact moors that were black was a minority and blacks that were soldiers were slave soldiers used by MENA people against Spaniards so Charlotte doesnt have an black ancestry not to mention her so called moor ancestor was 5 generation back
@@childofthelight007 Hate to burst your bubble (ok, that's a lie, I don't hate, but enjoy to do so), but 1. Queen Charlotte's allegedly black ancestor is a woman from Portugal called Madragana who wasn't black. She was not a Moor, but from a "Mozarab" = Iberian family. 2. Even if you, against evidence, refute no. 1, the allegedly black ancestor was a woman that lived 13 (!) generations before Charlotte. That is the best the people who want Charlotte to be black can get. Easy math to find out, that this would be one black ancestor among 8192 ancestors, or 0.01%. So the best take for Charlotte beeing black or "mixed race" is a mixture where literally 99.99% are white.
Cleopatra (Κλεοπάτρα) and her family can't be black African figures because the were Greeks. The Ptolemies originated in the Greek kingdom of Macedonia (Alexander the Great). She was just the last member of a Greek Dynasty that ruled Egypt, as other Greek Dynasties ruled Asian kingdoms in the same period (Bactria, Pergamon, Seleucid Empire, Indo-Greek kingdom etc) {Greek/Hellenistic period of Asia and North Africa}
Most Netflix casting are of black and white mixed race couples. They’re obsessed with black interracial couples and equal representation be damned. It doesn’t surprise me that they would take the mixed race angle in this biased, blackwashed, documentary. That’s why I’m canceling Netflix.
@@MaxTobyMaxtoby-eq7ri Phoenicians that did live around Indo Europeans ...only days away from Anatolia ..have been black and Indo Europeans did not see it
@@JJLV2495 14th Century Occiton Manuscript British Library. They have Cleopatra and family as being black.The paintings are600 years old.And Europeans did them .
“Jada Pinkett Smith isn’t a good historian or even researcher. And that’s important when you’re producing documentaries that aim to educate millions of people on important topics.”
This is 100% true. Jada's is not a historian or researcher since we're being honest. My first major in college was history, I actually got an Associates degree in history. It was tough, but I switched going for my Bachelors. Historians aim for a BA, I got a BS in research science. Eventually, I obtained an MS degree. My professor thought an MA would suit me better.
I said all that to say this, I have a degree. I know Cleopatra was half Greek, and I would still watch the show. The ancient Egyptian's weren't Europeans, but Europeans played them in movie's. Ancient Egyptians' culture, traditions, the way they dressed, and funeral practices can be found all over Africa. By Africans who knew nothing of Egyptians. Yall said nothing about that
@@mannataylor8002 You say she was half Greece like you know what her other half was, we don't know her mother but she could be greek/ some part greek so it would be more correct to say she was at least half greek. Also i hate when people bring double standards when it doesn't apply to everyone, i personally know have arguments about Disney making Nani light skinned which is bad, the character was dark skinned and we should represent dark skinned women. That doesn't mean people can steal my culture, didn't netflix made Achilles black as well some years ago? I personally like african mythology, there are so many things to explore but media just cares for money and over use the same things again and again, Americans should stop profiting from other cultures
@@anna.owo. I study Greek Mythology in College It's actually my favorite. That Black Achilles netflix Bullshid? nobody watched that, but the world knows Troy. That Blk guy wasn't African he was a Blk Greek, Brad Pitt isn't Greek. I guess because he's Pale skinned y'all said nothing. I promise 🙏 you, outside of a handful of dumb BlK people. Blks don't want to steal, be, or have anything to do with Greek culture trust me. You White people kill me lol, the problem isn't about who plays Cleopatra. The problem is White's wanting the power to control. The power to say who's allowed to play this character. Cleopatra may have been Half Greek, or more. Her heart, she was as African as the very first Pharaoh's. Like I said White's play whoever they want.
From my perspective, as someone who studied ancient Egypt for nearly 50 years (I even wrote a book about it), I can assure you that this Netflix documentary is something I wouldn't line a bird cage with.
The issue is over if the movie should be called a documentary. I am fine with someones view that Cleopatra could be black. Just don't call the movie a documentary. It doesn't match with history or her family from Macedonia hence Greek. Another big issue is movies like to refer to Cleopatra as a queen. She was a pharaoh not a queen. It's a mistake many make. Especially, by folks making fictional types of movies of historical figures.
@Cool b jay Well if that is the case then she's just like Bob Marley(Father White, Mother Black), Or like Obama (Mother White, Father Black) or Like Tiger woods(Mother Asian, Father Black) and African Americans normally call such types of mixed race people as black
The issue with gal godot being cast as cleopatra wasn't whitewashing it was that she was Israeli and as you know Egypt a Muslim country doesn't get along all that well with Israel. Gal Gadot is actually more middle eastern looking than European looking though she could pass off as a slightly tan Greek. Most Egyptians acknowledge that Cleopatra was primarily if not almost entirely of Greek descent and given the level of inbreeding that occurred with the Ptolemies as well as contemporary depictions of her most historians and history buffs that have delved into the issue contend that she was probably light skinned. Theories of her mother or paternal grandmother being Egyptian have soundly been debunked as there is simply no evidence or documentation of this and is more a case of wishful thinking by some people as it runs counter to what we had come to expect of the Ptolemies and what lengths they would resort to in order to keep their bloodline pure(ie inbreeding).
That's not true. I've have heard black people complain about Gal Gadot being cast, but here's the thing. there were no Muslims back then. Not for another 500years...so the ancient Egyptians were not Muslims.
@@bobbyschannel349 That doesn't matter, modern day Egyptians are and as descendants of Ancient Egypt can kick up a fuss if they don't like the casting. Black people have exactly zero say about Cleopatra. She was NOT in any way shape or form of sub Saharan African descent. There is not a shred of evidence for this, people need to start reading history books and stop listening to their grandmothers. Also I never understood the obsession of African Americans with Egypt. AA are overwhelmingly of west African descent. The Nubians were east Africans separated by some 3000 miles from west Africa. It is true they ruled Egypt for all of 88 years out of 3000 of Ancient Egyptian civilization but west Africans had exactly zero to do with it. West Africans are about as related genetically and civilizationally to Nubians as Europeans are to Middle Easterners(that is to say not at all). That is like Europeans becoming heavily invested in North Africans claiming that Mansa Musa was actually somehow of MENA(Middle Eastern North African) stock because this way Europeans get to share in the claim somehow? No man, that's not how it works. Insanity pure insanity!
I think the issue is that in the documentary it’s being said that cleopatra was a black woman when she was not, she was Macedonian Greek. By the looks of her profile on her coins and the statues of her, she looks Mediterranean. Her family married and procreated within the family, even half siblings procreating with each other to continue the blood line. I know it’s hard for Americans to understand that just because you are born on the continent of Africa, it doesn’t mean you are black. Elon musk and Charlize Theron are an example, so is the Blade Runner. Africa is a very diverse place. Also, not all Africans look like west Africans. I’ve seen Africans with straight hair, blonde hair, colored eyes, light skin. It’s just depends on the region you are from.
@@MrMuttly55 We don’t know what Cleopatra looked like. She had a high probability to be of mixed heritage. They don’t even know here maternal dna makeup.
how the fuck would you know that you see the problem with you white folks and these arab invaders is you are outraged without any proff where are you'll reciepts you have inherited a bunch of lies nd when someone called your decieving asses out you want to arhe.question where are you plale face people at on the walls in egypt oh yea you arent on them walls so terefore cleopatra was no pale skin white women deal with it because we black people know the truth and no amount of fake ass outrage will change that.now carry on liars.
If this is a subject of exploration that you're genuinely interested in and looking to further understand, then I'd adamantly recommend a book by Senegalese anthropologist and physicist, Cheikh Anta-Diop: 'The African Origin of Civilization, Fact or Fiction?' (1974). Its a great foot into the door of the debate and makes clear why the subject is such a point of contention, especially in 2023 and moving forwards. Unfortunately the debate has been skewed somewhat by its presentation via Cleopatra, who was of the Ptolemaic's, a Macedonian Greek, colonising class at the twilight of Ancient Egyptian civilization, whereas the debate itself is more interested in earlier Pre-Dynastic, Old Kingdom, Middle and New Kingdom dynasties, when Egypt/Kemet's majority population will have been indigenous to the land. After all, Egypt/Kemetic history is incredibly extensive, Cleopatra 7th living closer to the construction of the first 'Pizza Hut', than she ever did to the construction of The Pyramids.
She was Greek, and more than likely... her parents were brother and sisters to keep the Royal bloodline pure. What's disturbing is, they are trying to re-write history.
Ok, so I'm African-American and I see your POV. Initially, I thought this was racist nonsense. But this isn't about black being bad or gross, it's about Egyptian history being pillaged and co-opted. The problem isn't a black actress, it's the incorrect racial labelling of an important Eqyptian figure in a (garbage) documentary. In America, I grew up hearing that Cleopatra was black and was very proud of that fact (so are a lot of people). I've known for decades it wasn't true but some blacks still geniunely believe Cleopatra is being whitewashed by racist. The producers of this series and Netflix are taking advantage of the continuing ignorance/controversy around Egyptian History and reaping attention and ratings. They should be held accountable.
You appear to have a strange take on this subject. I say you "appear" to. I'm not making a judgment. But, you seem to qualify your comment by telling us you're African American as if that either gives you an excuse or a qualification. I find this puzzling because it would have been more pertinent to tell us you are an authority on ancient Egyptian history, rather than announce your ethnicity. The fact that you cite your ethnicity rather than your historical knowledge suggests that your take on all of this is more emotional than intellectual. There is an ongoing debate surrounding the racial makeup of the ancient Egyptians but, in reality, that debate is only so fierce because one side desperately needs their point-of-view to take precedence over the other. The truth is that nobody knows the exact level of pigmentation in the skin of Cleopatra, but it serves one side more for her to be lighter and the other side more for her to be darker. One thing is certain though. Cleopatra and all of Ancient Egypt, in fact, all of the histories of civilization are being un-Blacked wherever they possibly can be. That is what should be held accountable.
Cleopatra was Greek and that's fine. What isn't fine is so called modern day Egyptians saying ancient Egyptians weren't BLACK when science has proven they are and some still today over there in AFRICA!!!
@@melanatednegus174 Nobody in actual (no fanatic ignorants) academia think Egypt as "white" as US mindset see the word. Which is a whole mess on its own, starting from the total misuse of the term "caucasian". It wasn't also 'black' how US think 'black' is. Not a place like 100% people looked like black Americans. No such thing as "black culture" being Egyptian culture very cosmopolite and being more influenced by mediterranean and asian context than African one. 3/4 of the continent had remote influence on it if compared to mediterranean and asian influence. Even being all blackest black they didn't think of themselves as 'black' neither could they call their culture 'black'. Actually no real African ever could think of himself just ad 'black', even today. 'Black' means something homogenous only in the US. Conclusion: it's just unfit to use modern "race" (=skin tone )obsession for Egyptian and the whole ancient world history.
@@melanatednegus174 Scientific studies (linguistics, history, art history, archaeology, anthropology, paleo-genetics, etc.) of the last 40 years clearly show that the population has been predominantly Afro-Asian (Arab/Berber) and a black minority (further in the south) since prehistoric times. So long before the first dynasties. Only the 25th dynasty is certified as black and came from Kush (the Theban dynasties may have been blacks as well but this is unconfirmed and they might have been darker than North egyptians but lighter than Kushites) while only the last dynasty was white and came from Macedonia. For some scientific literature on the subject of the skin color(s) of the ancient Egyptians: - Kathryn A. Bard, « Ancient Egyptians and the issue of race, dans M.R. Lefkowitz, G. MacLean-Rogers (éd.), Black Athena Revisited, Londres, 1996, 103-111. - Frank J. Yurco, Were the Ancient Egyptians black or white?, Biblical Archaeology Review 15 (5), 1989, 24-29, 58. - V. Schuenemann, A. Peltzer, B. Welte et al., Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods, Nature Communications 8 (15694), 2017. - Brenna M. Henn, Laure R. Botigué, S. Gravel, Wei Wang, Abra Brisbin, Jake K. Byrnes, Karima Fadhlaoui-Zid, Pierre A. Zalloua, Andres Moreno-Estrada, Jaume Bertranpetit, Carlos D. Bustamante, David Comas, Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations, PLoS Genetics 8 (1), 2012. - Béatrix Midant-Reynes, Yann Tristant (éd.), Egypt at its origins 2: Proceedings of the International Conference “Origin of the State. Predynastic and Early Dynastic Egypt”, Toulouse, France, 5th-8th September 2005, OLA 172, Louvain, 2008. _Kemp, B. J., Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilisation, Routledge, 07 May 2007. _Keita, S.O.Y., "Genetics, Egypt, and History: Interpreting Geographical Patterns of Y Chromosome Variation", American Journal of Physical Anthropology (1990). _Keita, S.O.Y., "Early Nile Valley Farmers, From El-Badari, Aboriginals or 'European' Agro-Nostratic Immigrants? Craniometric Affinities Considered With Other Data", Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 36, No. 2, pp. 191-208 (2005). _Keita, S.O.Y., "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships", History in Africa, 20: 129-154 (1993): The Origins of Afroasiatic, Ehret, Keita and Newman, Science (2004). _Shriner, D. & Keita, S.O.Y. Migration route out of Africa unresolved by 225 Egyptian and Ethiopian whole genome sequences, 2016.
U left out the lady saying my grandma told me i dont care what they told u in school cleopatra was black.thats why people r trying to ban the show mostly .
@@nytn these dummies don't get the context. The lady said that because her grandma was educated or at least knew how much white people whitewashed history. From Pocahontas to European colonization to anti-Sinicism at the modern age. When they reconstructed King Tut as a Caucasian person by compensating his natural African prognanthism with an overbite, that took the cake! Cleopatra had almost a quarter Persian blood. One of her ancestors came from what is modern-day Uzbekistan/Afghanistan so she wouldn't have been completely Caucasian but this was just one ancestor who was Sogdian. One of the Ptolemies (Ptolemy V, Cleopatra's great-great-great grandfather who married this part-Persian Seleucid princess) was actually born to the King's mistress and not the Queen. Similar instances could have happened down the line but Cleopatra's father was actually not illegitimate as it has been proposed. His parents were rivals with their mother and because this Queen-mother chose her younger son who later replaced Cleopatra's grandfather and also became a friend and ally of Rome, his credibility was what made his heirs the real successor to the Ptolemaic throne.
People try to create a problem where there is none. Cleopatra wasn't black. Coins, statutes, paintings, descriptions by Romans and so on, make this perfectly clear. Had she been black, it would've been proof that she's born to a woman outside of the dynasty or the ruling (greek) class of Alexandria. In that case the Romans, who disliked her with a passion, would've called her illegitimate and made it clear to let everyone and their dogs know about it.
The great degree of inbreeding in the Greco-Macedonian Ptolemaic dynasty is obvious when considering Cleopatra's immediate family. Her father was probably the uncle of Cleopatra's mother (the women in the family were named Cleopatra). There were three uncle/niece and three brother/sister relationships in her lineage (Cleopatra was married to her brothers) that went back to a single set of either great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents, In other words, a relatively small number of ancestors. Or fresh blood.
@@gamer4ever512 Not to mention, Cleopatra was also a name that was passed down to the females in the family. So, you gotta narrow down which Cleopatra you're referring to. Also, whatever happened to Cleopatra's tomb? What happened to Cleopatra's children that she had with Mark Anthony and Julius Cesar?
@@Neku628 Her tomb has not been found yet. Her son with Caesar was killed. Her children with Antony were taken back to rome and raised by Antony's ex wife and Octavian's sister Octavia. The two boys most like died young of some childhood illness. The girl was the only one to reach adulthood and she was married off to a king. I forgot which country but she did become a queen through marriage.
Yea true but they also found her sisters tomb in turkey and when doing DNA lab work saw that she had traces of other ethnic groups one of those groups was in Africa .
Conveniently we're supposed to ignore the fact that Greeks deplored incest. And culturally these marriages were sexless. And that clearly these names functioned as titles. And that the family tree is incomplete. And that there were multiple wives and concubines that are known that don't appear on the incomplete family tree. And that this family had no known birth defects. Tye 300 years that this Macedonian family lived in Africa which is important to say because culturally men and women had the same agency and the lines went through the mothers which led a why there is so much confusion in the diets place. Plus we're to disregard the fact that were arguing about the purity of a bloodline of a lady with 3 husbands and 2 baby daddies both of whom had wives. A lady who was accused of the sexual appetite of a man. And this was normal in her family. You're a with god and Beyoncé feeds you grapes what do you do? 99.9% of men make black babies and if your women and Michael b Jordan feeds you grapes you do the same thing and the you say he's the son of a god. It's not definitive but objectively there's more evidence against her being of pure blood.
Maybe you don’t fully get the reason behind the outrage from most Egyptians , it’s not just that she was represented by a black actress by itself, that would have been fine with most like how many other ethnicities representing cleopatra were fine and attracted little outrage before. The problem is with the Afrocentrist narrative that claims that modern Egyptians are invaders who colonized egypt from the blacks that built it and ruled it, then pretended to be Egyptian and stole black history , a movement that Jada is sympathetic to. Average Egyptians have been on the receiving end of this kind of narrative for years now, and JPS has Afrocentrism tendencies. That’s why having a black cleopatra from such a producer within the climate of such a movement outraged Egyptians , and rightly so. That’s why most Egyptians are annoyed by this, not for merely having a black actress as cleopatra. If a black woman played cleopatra but there was no Afrocentric movement claiming modern non black Egyptians are invaders, this wouldn’t attract a fraction of a fraction of the current outrage and it would be just a small number of racists complaining instead of the big reaction you see from most Egyptians today. There was one black dynasties that ruled Egypt, and many pyramid building dynasties in Sudan south of Egypt, if Jada chose that that would have been fine, it chose a trope commonly used by the afrocentrist movement that the ethnically Greek cleopatra and the many non black Egyptian rulers are fabrications by later invaders wanting to steal black history. There are many incidents documented on RUclips from African American and African British tourists going to Egypt and calling the people there invaders or making such racist Afrocentric commentaries in front of Egyptian sights. That’s where the problem lies for most egyptians.
Egypt was invaded by Arabs and they wiped out almost every Egyptian. I bet Egyptians aren't even 10% of Egyptian citizens. I don't understand how people get mad when the truth of colonisation is talked about
Black Americans are so racist and insecure about themselves, so they try to steal other ethnic cultures/history! They hate themselves so much they can’t OWN real blck American history of arriving to America in SHIPS being SOLD, again insecurity and delusion they can’t admit this happened! Like blck Americans think “it’s boring” “bad history” so they steal others to make themselves “look better”!
2:35 I don’t think you realize why people are angry. It’s not exactly a show as in a drama like game of thrones or a ancient mummy curse movie. It’s a documentary with historical facts, that’s the reason people are angry, it’s a documentary. They are really choosing their words wisely when they said “people shouldn’t get upset over the casting choices over a show” when they put it like that yea it’s stupid, the words they are using are manipulative. It’s not just a show, it’s a documentary they are twisting words
Judging from the portraits and sculptures made of her during her lifetime, she wasn't black. Also, the portraits and sculptures of most pharoahs her preceeded her indicate that they weren't black either. There were black pharoahs of Egypt: the 25th dynasty who were Nubians (the Kushite empire) who ruled from 744 - 656 BCE, just under 100 years.
Hi Danielle. I've been subscribed since you were at 1k subs, now you're 10k plus - congrats! I'm glad of the direction that your channel has taken. It's not only about Lola (or your family) anymore, it's also about race & ethnicity - who's black, who's white, native, African, North African, Egyptian, etc. We need to talk about these things, as we are all humans. Congrats and more power to you!
Hi Danielle, According to facts, Cleopatra was Macedonian (Greek), and her ancestor was Ptolemy who was one of Alexander the Great's generals who took over Egypt after Alexander's death, and established the Ptolemic Dynasty. It's also facts that this dynasty practice incest as the ancient pharaohs to keep their ruling blood line pure. She was the only one in her line that learned and spoke Egyptian which help to make her popular with the Egyptian. The Ancient Egyptians of the Old, Middle, Kingdom were black as their southern neighbors Kush. Historically, Egypt started changing genetically when the Hittites, Nubian, Syrians, Greeks, (the Ptolemic Dynasty), Romans, and Arabs, conquerd and ruled Egypt at a certain time and assimilate sexually into the Modern Egyptians we know today. So to answer the question was Cleopatra black or white, her line was Mediterranean Greek.
If the person in ancient egypt has roots in another part of the world, like the Greek Cleopatra, that doesn't make to much sense. Should Elon Musk, who was born in Africa, be portrayed by a black actor? Obviously not. And the same should work for Κλεοπάτρα.
Yes, Cleopatra was African (because Egypt is in Africa), but she was not black. I don't understand why a bunch of mostly African Americans (trapped in the narratives of Afrocentrism) are so confused by this, but not every part of Africa is populated by black people. I think there is no debate here! It is a well-known fact that she was Greek/Macedonian, with a little bit of Iranian, and that the Ptolemaic Dynasty was incestuous, so it is very unlikely that she will have even a bit of Egyptian blood (also, ancient Egyptians were not black, and the current Egyptian population is representative of this, they did not go away, if anything now they have more admixtures with black-Subsaharan people than before). So yes! She was African, as are the North Africans that do not look anything at all like the Sub-Saharan black populations. I think it is really bad because it is supposed to be a documentary, and it is as inaccurate as casting Liz Taylor. Why not cast a Greek/Macedonian actress?
This was well said and consistent with my informal research on the topic! I have been trying to, as an AA myself, understand why my community has this weird fixation on Egypt. Egypt was never a black territory. There are so many actual areas that are home to black people that could be explored, yet they chose to try to culturally apropriate MENA countries.
Funny I get mistaken as being Egyptian all the time but if I go by Jim Crow laws I’m black aka African American… Also, North African also have sun-Saharan DNA along with every country that conquered North Africa… North African are more of a mix race…
I agree that if there is GOING to be outrage from the Egyptians...they should be just as made about many other "Cleopatras" in film. I THINK Angelina Jolie played her once, too.
Americans are so confused. The USA does not consider the Spanish as Europeans but as Latinos yet the Portuguese are considered Europeans. Ignorance knows no bounds. When it comes to Geography the US gets an abysmal 'F'
The africans hopped unto boats and literally sailed down the nile by assists from gravity. Mother nature insurgently and inconspicuously displaced them to the east and west with the sahara's desertification. Africans of many stripes, all hued, ended up on the nile value by luck and word of mouth of the life giving, reliable river. They stayed, built, innovated and thrived until they conquered by foreigners the last of whom sought (and did) make slaves of some of them and continue to undermine their humanity to this day.
I like the video and the thoughtful exploration. I am not sure about the race or skin color of Cleopatra. I think the problem with trying to figure out what someone was in ancient times( race wise) is a challenge because it is not a thing then. I also think people sometimes conflate the beginning of the Egyptian dynasties to the end. The first dynasties were closely tied to Kush and they both were indigenous to Africa. So by today's classifications, those Egyptians would be consider to be black. Those two civilizations traded together, married, fought etc. Later people from SW Asia came and integrated with Egyptians. Later people from Persia and Assyria came and conquered Egypt. Certainly, there was integration after the Pharaohs regained power so you have a cultural mix. I feel like Egypt is an example of a place that people of many cultures and skin tones influenced not just one group.
not true. it is proven that after the ice age and in the wake of agricultural revolution, egypt first was inhabited by farmers who migrated from the levant and mesopotamia (middle east).these people later unified egypt and stated the first dynasty. they spoke semitic language, which originated in levant. even dna test done on ancient egyptians mummies revealed they are more closely related to the people of the ancient near east (middle east). the kushites you mention were at modern day sudan and ethiopia, where nile originates. they had their own empire. also, getting conquered by persia and assyria doesn't mean their dna changed to persians and assyrians. many empires conquered egypt, but they didn't slaughter the egyptians. and they also didn't mass migrate to egypt. egypt always had a huge population due to its large agricultural output. no empires who conquered egypt were big enough in population to replace the native egyptians. modern egyptians are not ethnically arab, they are only culturally arab. the arab empire were not numerically large enough to even replace 1/4th of egypt's native population. modern dna testing shows that the average egyptians only has about 9% arab dna in them, the rest are native egyptian dna.
@mishterkhalid3117 Hey there. cite a source pls. I have never heard this re: movement after the ice age from Levant. Christopher Ehret a scholar and the Boston Museum of Fine Arts differ with you that indigenous Africans were not very present in Ancient Egypt.
@@mishterkhalid3117 this study was not done well. Read it for yourself. They tested 3 mummies only one gave viable sample. Plus the area was an area known to be inhabited by foreigners and only covers the late period.
Jada poorly invested her money and unwisely chose her daugher's "african" queen. She would have done better to go further back into eqyptian antiquity for that - queen Tiye, Nefertiti or the one that fought against the romans from nubia. They would only have Hawass as the only prominent idiot railing against such a film. But Jada, true to being controversial, dropped the ball.
This apparently is a series and I did watch a bit of her "Njinga" documentary, hoping to learn something. But honestly? It was very over-idealised "African" and smacked so much of that scene in Roots where OJ Simpson is the dad, and chases after Kunta... everything in Africa portrayed as gorgeous and lovely, but OJ is stiffly acting the entire part except for the chase scene? It felt awkward like that. (Roots on the whole - excellent - but there were a few scenes that were poorly done/ historically inaccurate.) I couldn't watch all of "Njinga" and given how badly it was done, I think Jada Smith may have (allegedly lol) bribed or begged someone to cause this "controversy" so people will watch her series!!! Terrible stuff.
The big controversy is not the series itself, the problem most are having is in the word "Documentary". It is not factual that she was black, it should be listed as fiction, then I think most would not care really, and just would not watch it...
When claiming something is a documentary, you need to have factual proof, not a Hollywood vision that may or may not have been accurate. Now when James Cameron did Titanic he said was a documentary/ fiction movie. Most of the story was accurate except Rose and Jack and the old lady and the necklace. He admitted they were fictional but everything else about the sinking was accurate. Jada took liberties with history to give it a Hollywood twist and in the process minimized the actual history of the Egyptians. I do believe they weren’t any happier with Liz Taylor as Cleopatra. If I remember correctly they thought she was much too old to play Cleopatra. I thought I read that somewhere once or maybe a Liz Taylor documentary. But I don’t think they sued her over it.
Do I know? Cubans were against Fidel Castro being played by a white actor even though the movie wasn't a documentary and they somehow won the debate. That is why I don't watch Netflix. Coz it hates white people and doesn't produce movies with inteligent story.
When Persian people criticised the 300 Move not just for using black people as Persians but also for distortion of Iranian history and culture in so many ways we get accused of being racist, being narcissistic, having inferiority complex and received all kinds of craps but here the story continues this time for Egypt and I can't wait to see which country going to be the next, until people understand all nations should be respected in the way they are and not the entire world circle arounds one especial race or country
I have always thought of Cleopatra as a reddish brown, Egyptian woman of color with Black hair. The Blond Greek concept is completely new to me, never heard of it before. The Europeans depicted Cleopatra as a very pale skin woman with Red hair and say that her looks can be verified by some coins that exist which of course could be a depiction of anyone and the idea that the Ptolomy family tree was completely and entirely derived from incestuous relationships. This again is something that is questionable to say the least. Certainly there may have been a great deal of incest in the family, but entirely? No one had relations with any person outside of the family for 300 years? Really? What is intriguing to me also is the fact that they take great pains to state that the Greeks and the Romans kept meticulous records of the Ptolomy dynasty family tree, except for Cleopatra's grandmother, who they say might have been a concubine and her mother, which for some reason no one has any knowledge of. Given this information, logically, there is a possibility that she could have been Black or at least have Black blood, which according to the "one drop" rule, would in the eyes of America, make her a Black woman. There is also the point that while some Egyptians seek to deny their Black African lineage, Southern Egypt was populated by indigenous Black Sudanese, called even today, Nubians. So again, there is the possibility that her Grandmother was a Nubian and her mother was an Egyptian or even Nubian herself. It is no surprise that Dr. Zahi Hawass is claiming that Cleopatra was Greek and had Blond hair, even though she was born in Africa and her mother's ethnicity is unknown. He is completely indoctrinated with a Eurocentric view and has many times previously been found to make inaccurate statements to support the European narrative when it comes to the Black African lineage of Egyptians, even when confronted with the facts. No Egyptian depiction of Cleopatra shows her as a pale skin or yt person. It is my contention that if anyone is trying to conceal facts or promote a false narrative, it is the Europeans since they cave compiled such a detailed back story of her, yet conveniently have no real knowledge of her Grandmother and mother. This tells me that at some point they lost track of what was going on with the family tree or they are hiding the truth because it is inconvenient. Fun fact, (" in 2009 the BBC reported that scientists were surprised to learn that Cleopatra’s blood sister, Arsinoe, had an African mother. ")
Christ , you dont need War and Peace part one to explain , I've never seen a blond haired blue eyed Egyptian , our boss in work years ago was half Egyptian, he was what I'd say Woggy , a good splash of the tarbrush , i dont know if youre familar with the term. It's a debate over how much tarbrush she was exposed to , either a lot if she was Nig Nog , or a little bit less if she was a Wog . In either case Light Skinned means nothing , it depends what she was compared with , light compared to Africans , dark compared to proper Whites as in Northern Europeans , ie light hair , blue eyes.
@@SexyBeautifulBabe You say that as a way to try to insinuate she was white. Yes, she was Greek but that doesn't mean she was white. In 1000 years from now people like you will say "Giannis Antentkumpou wasn't black, he was Greek!" These things are nothing new. She was what would describe today as black or mixed
I'm Egyptian, A COPTIC CHRISTIAN EGYPTIAN. I shout that out loud because we are the most pure blooded Egyptians out there and that's not only my opinion that's what Egyptologists, Historians and Scientists also agreed on, and I tell you that every word that Bassem Youssef said is right and I totally agree with him. Yes Egypt had lots of mixed cultures throughout its history like for example: Assyrians, Greeks, Romans and Arabs, but the Egyptian blood didn't mix and change that much and that's because for centuries we Egyptians had a golden tradition rule to marry our cousins, and that tradition is still present until now especially in Upper Egypt(from Assiut to Aswan), Although that tradition seems silly and bad from a scientific biological point of view, but that doesn't matter, silly or not we kept that tradition of marrying our cousins for centuries and that helped us to preserve our pure Egyptian blood not mixed as long as we could, and the result is what you see now and that is Modern Egyptians looks typical to their Ancient Egyptian Ancestors, just look at my skin color and Bassem Youssef's skin color we are almost the same although he is a Muslim who was born and lived in Cairo and I am a Coptic Christian who was born and lived in Luxor and there is almost a 1000 km distance between us, doesn't that tell you a thing or two about who Ancient Egyptians were and what they looked like? With all due respect for all the Black people and all the other ethnicities out there, but we Egyptians are special very special, WE ARE NOT Black or White or Yellow, Not Europeans or Africans or Asians, Not Assyrians or Persians or Israelites or Nubians or Greeks or Romans or Arabs or French or Italians or Germans or British or Turkish or Ukrainians, Not Middle Easterners or Caucasians or Mediterraneans or Levants or Amazigh or Berbers or even North Africans. WE ARE EGYPTIANS, WE ARE VERY UNIQUE!
With as much racial mixing all over the world as there has been over the eons, I find it hard to believe that Egyptians are as genetically distinct as you’re stating. I find it especially difficult to swallow for a nation as monumental in its historical importance as Egypt. Much of the history that was published indicates different racial groups living there from far regions of the known world at that time. So to say that Egyptians only bred with their own group and most often did so with blood relatives, I’m not buying it. It doesn’t even seem genetically healthy to continually marry cousins and produce healthy children. I just really beg to differ. Maybe I’m ignorant, but I thought that Cleopatra was of at least partial Greek heritage. Also, I was also made aware that the so-called Nubians had ruled Egypt for a while as well. But you’re insisting that Egyptians are an ethnically distinct and pretty much genetically pure group? How??? As far as I’m concerned, this backlash against black Cleopatra has got the usual pathological racial bias against black people that has been spread all over the world. Just tells me that it’s better to be labeled anybody but black…..I haven’t noticed the level of backlash against white people playing these roles since movies began. And no, I haven’t watched the series yet, but perhaps I will just to see what the buzz is all about.
It''s most common to think of everyone as TV and Movies have portrayed them. I read that there were many Cleopatras in real life. Since white actors have portrayed black people many times without outrage, why not vise-versa?
@@blackcommunion3820 Was that meant to be sarcastic?Ever Heard of "BLACKFACE"? I'll share 4 and you can google the countless other incedents... Film: "Elizabeth, Michael and Marlon" (2016) Joseph Fiennes Played Michael Jackson Film: "The 33" (2015) Juliette Binoche as Maria Segovia Laurence Olivier as Othello 1965 The Birth of a Nation was released in 1915
who the fuck came up the idea that "actually cleopatra ethinicity is highly debated " it is a sentence that a person come up with before making some shit up historically
I'm confused with Netflix Cleopatra was part of the Talmaic Dynasty, who wasn't indigenous to Acient Egypt. they were the invaders / colonisers . so how can you have an indigenous person to the continent playing that part. it's like the whites in America & Australia played by a native
The problem here is that North Africa is very close to southern Europe and it is likely that the genome of North Africans is closer to those of southern Europe than Sub-Saharan Africa. That being said one must acknowledge that those born on the continent of Africa are not all racially Negroid. In fact on the US census if born in North Africa you are to identify as Caucasian. Some don't feel this is accurate but at the same time one could argue that southern Italians should not be classified as Caucasian. Born in Africa does not equate automatically with being black. There has been a push by Afro centrist to portray the founders of the great Egyptian Civilization as sub-Saharan African and he is reacting in general to this effort. The problem is that the reaction is so ferocious and in reality the Mediterranean people (including North Africans) are a mixed race as is the actress. It is this aspect that is inappropriate on the Egyptian side. The reaction however is to more than just the actress but to a general push to portray the builders of the great pyramids as Sub-Saharan for political "wokeness" .
Please actually do real research . Yea Egypt land is in proximity to europ but if you actually read their own words and study their culture and track their DNA . They came from South Africa upwards . The majority of the old kingdom and middle kingdoms empires were in southern Egypt not near the coast of Egypt because the Nile flows backwards . In other words they were not a costal people . Also they share many many many Dna ,cultural and linguistic Traits with what we would call modern day Sudan . Not only that they literally said their ancestors came from the beginning of the Nile river. Guess what the Nile river flows from tow parts of Southern Africa . I will take the words from the actual people of that time any day over a modern day Egyptologist with a agenda or biased based on modern times .
Thank you for your video. As a student of history, I noticed that many people speak on the identity of the Egyptians based on the population you see today in Egypt, which in a sense is true. They are the current Egyptians, but if you want to know who the ancient Egyptian were, you don’t have to guess. They told you who they were by the art on the temple and pyramid walls. Look at the sculpture of the oldest Pharoahs, and look at the head of the Sphinx. They told you who they were because they knew this day would come.
If you know HOW much the Greeks stole you will know more about Egypt. The old Egyptian kingdom were darker skinned more phenotypically african people only because it was "pre conquered" Egypt. I always thought Cleopatra was mixed race due to being apart of the Ptolemys. Current Egyptians are children of the colonialist. Arabs, greek admixture over thousands of years. And they are also colorist who think they are superior to sub saharan africans. . But over the years Egyptian culture that has been conquered are now whitewashed due to colonialism. People want to keep egypt white because of those damn pyramids. Lol. But the ancestors of the modern day Egyptians did NOT build those things. The ANCIENT egyptians were the literal children of subsuharan nubians.
Also the greeks conquered Egypt first. The greeks called them ethiopians which was the blanketed name for africans. Now if the greeks has to conquer them and the arabs werent occupying them yet, where did these ORIGINAL ehyptians come from. They are the children of subsuharan africans. If you look at their ancient relations with Kush you will see the similarities. Also eypt was trading with the southern europeans so there was race mixing there but full white with "blacks"neighboring them in the south uh. No. Not the ancients.
@kinegiros That's Not quite clear,because During Alexander's Great's lifetime All Macedonian generals were ordered to take Persian wives,they Even had a mass ceremony, Ptolemy may of been one of these commanders,Alexander did this to create a ruling elite caste ,who would rule the territories of his empire after his death,thus meaning Cleopatra may have had some Persian ancestry,but I agree She was definitely Mostly Greek Macedonian..
@@peterroberts7684 All historical records indicate that she belonged to the Ptolemaic dynasty, which was primarily of Greek and Macedonian origin. She was highly inbred and had intermarriage within the Ptolemaic family which was well-documented. And this inbreeding was with all of her white relatives. Nothing to do with any mixed-race heritage. There is no concrete evidence whatsoever that she had any "mixed race/Persian" DNA other than speculation of a relative who was not Macedonian. It would be like some white dude saying he is 1/32nd Cherokee and looks absolutely nothing like any Cherokee.
@@kinegiros So you know better than the ancient written sources? How so? The Cleopatra we are talking about is Cleopatra VII. Her ancestor Cleopatra I was from the Seleucid empire and merried to Egypt (Ptolemy V) for political reasons, trying to bring peace to the hostile empires (didn't work). That alone doesn't make her Iranian, as the Seleucids are, like the Ptolemies, Macedonian, but the Grandfather of this Cleopatra I was King Mithridates II of Pontus, a Persian. The daughter of this Mithridates, Laodice, merried Seleucid King Antiochus III, these are the parents of Cleopatra I.
As far as I understand, Cleopatra was Egyptian but not black. She was African because Egypt is in Africa. But if black means having dark skin, Cleopatra probably wasn't black.
As many people have said, she had Greek ancestry. I think the problem people are having is if she had partial sub-Saharan ancestry. She was African, as Egypt is in Africa. The Egyptians historically have always depicted themselves and the sub-Saharan Africans they encountered as differently though. They would paint themselves as a reddish skinned, which could be interpreted as brown or olive complected. Historically, there were some Pharaohs from the south that were of African ancestry, but they were long long before Cleopatra’s time. The other thing is that if she was from Alexandria, well, that was a very Greek city. If her mother was from there, she more than likely was also Greek, or at least had mixed Greek and Egyptian heritage. So knowing that, it’s doubtful that she was sub-Saharan in appearance and probably looked heavily what we would today consider as Mediterranean.It’s doubtful she was blond and fair skinned. She was most likely at best olive complected. I understand wanting to make her sub-Saharan African in appearance. Representation is important. Seeing yourself in media is important. Lying about it is not helpful though because in the end it is not true. Just like the people that want her to be an "African queen" want to be seen, the Egyptians want to be seen too though. Egyptians still exist. They have changed over time, but you probably see the same faces there as you saw thousands of years ago. Cheating them out of their own history by changing her appearance, to please a group of American activists in Hollywood is wrong. There are numerous historical images of Egyptians from her time. They look a lot like Egyptians do today. In all fairness, I’d default to that. It may not be perfect, but it will be closer to the truth. All that said, she’s an actress playing a role. Unless they are pushing the sub-Saharan part, why is it any different than Elizabeth Taylor, a white woman, playing the part?
When have you ever seen an African tribe have a white queen? Never! This story just sounds made up. No African tribe would ever do that. I descend from both and no. I just think the Greeks wanted so bad to be Egyptian they stole this story and injected themselves into Egyptian history. All Greek mythology was stolen from Kemet.
@@jeannerogers7085 Scientist say she was mixed race with black ancestry. No African tribes would ever have a white queen. Greeks stole their mythology from Egypt I don't believe nothing they say.
I can see you know nothing about Egyptian history. First off, the original inhabitants of that land were Africans. From the founding, the place was called Kemet. Present day occupiers if the land came there around 625 a.d and before them other invaders. I don't know what monuments you're describing to depict ancient Kemet, but nearly all the ones that exist depict them with very distinctive african features.
Actually, the mere fact that Jada Pinkett-Smith is behind this, I surely will NOT watch. She has RUINED my man Will Smith, and has caused him too much pain. But I was taught that Cleopatra was of Macedonian descent. That would make her Greek looking in appearance. But it is possible that there was Egyptian in her bloodline too, which would give more of an Arab look as well as the Greek look.
This s a nice video. I have tutored college-level history, and so I have studied this period (the classical era). I do not have much interest personally in Egypt though. I read an amazing biographical historical fiction years ago about Cleopatra. It taught me a lot. You are spon on when you said that her dad's side is well known and unquestionably Greek. BUT yes, the maternal lineage gets questionably. Her mother likely was either fully egyptian or part, because Cleopatra was known to be one of the few in her entourage who spoke Egyptian. However, I always tell people that African does NOT equal black. That's an important takeaway from your video. Ancient or indigenous Africans were likely of a darker complexion, but genetic studies indicate that they were genetically close to caucasians. Another takeway, dark skin does NOT equal black. Regardless, since her dad was 100% white (despite this in argument of the article author you cited- I would hold does NOT mean necessarily that he nor cleopatra was BLOND), she probably was not dark in complexion. The actress, I learned from you, is of mixed ancestry. So, I mean... I guess that's not too bad of a choice. right? If cleopatra was mixed and the actress is mixed...close enough? I still do feel like Jada Smith picking someone to represent "black queen" kinda their actress choice inapropriate. Cleopatra is NOT a black queen and trying to pass her off as one does a DISSERVICE to the many BLACK queens that have existed throughout history.
i agree there are other egyptian queens and pharoahs that could of have their story told. especially if jada wanted to show representation for her daughter. Hatshepsut has a wonderful story of ruling as a pharoah despite it being abnormal in that time and ended up creating prosperity for egypt. I dont know i feel like instead of forcing a queen to be black for the sake of representation is just as bad as white washing a black story. why not choose real representation and the stories we have never heard of.
Those genetic studies show that Egypt was conquered and not the original Egyptians. Especially if the were close to caucasians. The murals tell the story.
I find much of your comment logical and correct except even though her complextion may not have been black,she most likely belonged to the black race.based on evidence we DO have.
It’s crazy that when they portray Egyptians as white in old Hollywood no one argues that but does this it’s crazy but Egypt is what it is a place of many tones and faces
From what I have read, Cleopatra's family was of Greek origin but they had lived in Egypt for 400 years; some mixing with Egyptians was likely. Egyptians are mostly North African but many do appear to have significant Sub-Saharan ancestry. There is a Roman burial ground in Turkey and Cleopatra's sister may be buried there (a long back story and I can't remember the details); the burial grounds are for the most part only for very important people (generals, royals etc). The grave/temple has ancient Egyptian symbols on it; the remains in the vault are mixed white/black ancestry.
It was well known that the members of the Hellenistic (Greek) Royal families married their close relatives in order to keep pure the royal bloodline. A mixed child would be outside of a marriage, it would live in the shadows of the Palace and it would never sit on the Throne of any Hellenistic Kingdom since for the ancient Greeks "all non-Greeks considered as barbarians".
Sorry, but you are wrong. The Ptolemy’s married with other Greek Houses. The Seleucid’s, the Macedonians. They were also known to marry brother and sister. There was some Persian ancestry from Cleopatras great great grandmother. They didn’t even speak the language. They spoke Greek. The Ptolemaic dynasty did everything they could to separate themselves from the people they ruled. Incorporating Greek philosophy and architecture. They were buried in Greek style tombs. Cleopatra was as black as Jesus was white.
Egyptians are not North Africa, there is no such thing in taxonomy called "North African" not for humans any way. Egypt's population today is Arabid which is derived from the Armenoid Caucasian type settling in the Middle East millennia ago. Ancient Egyptians were Ethiopid a classification for Africans of Hamitic type.
@@Userkaf_II "settling in the Middle East millennia ago" dude the same people live in that region for 40 000 years your people are not even 7 000 years old Even ancestors of Indo Europeans did come to live in that region 10 000 years ago ---3 000 years before you have even been made
@Brad Gerber Anatolians (ancestors of Indo Europeans) and Natufians did live together in many regions as if they are one Natufians are in essence Egyptians and Greeks are the product of that "living together " They came to Europe around 6-8 000 years ago And no ,they didn't have your dna ..we would know it through the testing of any European And yes Greeks did never stop having contacts with Egyptians or Natufian regions Even the name philistine originated from the Greeks and one of their expeditions 4000 years ago
The Cleopatras were of the Ptolemaic Egyptian Greek aristocracy. The main point of confusion is the misunderstanding that Egyptians and Kemites are one and the same. They are not! The focus always seems to be on the so-called Egyptians of the Ptolemaic period who changed the name of the region and the Neteru of Kemetic folklore around 325BCE. If the European established Kemet (A Bantu word), why would they have to change the name? Today there's more of a cosmopolitan mixture of Roman, Greek and the "Johnny come lately" Arabs (approx. 600CE) who are claiming to be Egyptians, and they're right. None of them are of Kemet. The temples and pyramids were already built when the Greeks invaded. As a matter of fact there are more pyramids in Nubia than in the Nile valley. Where are the pyramids of Europe? I know I went in a little too deep but I had to get this perspective out. Ancient history is a hobby of mine and I've been at it with passion for at least 20 years. If you need receipts on what I've posted, I have sources.
To me, Cleopatra was of Greek origin, no doubt. That doesn't mean that the Egyptian people wasn't of dark skin. To me, they did have a darker skin, akin to the Middle Eastern peoples, and some paintings do show them as having a reddish skin tone, in comparison of lighter Europeans and darker Nubians. Looks like there was a dynasty of black pharaohs as well. But to me, they were neither black nor white: they were like Middle Eastern people.
BTW, one thing that bothers me is that they always focus on just a few important female characters and make them black, while there's so much important characters that went overlooked. Amanirenas was a one-eyed black Nubian queen, who led military campaigns against Egypt. Amanitore built great wonders of the Nubian kingdom, such as temples and pyramids. Further south, we have Ana Nzinga, the "Mother of Angola", one remarkable people who fought against European invaders.
Important to remember that race is a false European construct. Africans identifying by race, in my personal experience, is quite recent. I have had many friends and neighbors from all parts of Africa and the concept of race has always come up. As one man once told me, "People in Africa have varied skintones, but they are no less black."
@@panamasrose Franz Boas and Ruth Benedict ..people that stand behind the rejections of breeds have been Shasu of YHWH and they did have their own goals ..same people did write things like this "Slavs, ...are the most rebellious people in the world.........can be destroyed, but never conquered. That is why this seed is subject to elimination, and at first - to a sharp reduction in its number." For not knowing breeds that folks did speak alot about breeding
@@panamasrose oldest fossil of South Africa is Hofmeyr skull put that fossil between a west african and a European ...how long will you need to decide to who he is related ( hint ancestors of Hofmeyr did never leave africa) for breeds don't existing we are a bit too capable to define them
Im sorry, but there is no uncertainty about Cleopatra's mother. The mother of Cleopatra VII was Cleopatra VI Tryphaena. It is very well documented. Also there is no way on planet Earth that one of the Ptolemy's would have had offspring with someone outside the Macedonian lineages, they were very racist and simply would not have done so.
Lisa, that was so nice, thank you! Honestly, until I started looking into my family ancestry I had no idea how complex things could get, lots of emotions.
@@nytn Egypt had Nilo-Saharan and Nubian people up until 8th century before the Arab conquest. Even one of the former Queen's Hatshepsut of the Fifth dynasty. Egypt was linked to Nubian / Kush and Punt which is where Hatshepsut came from. Most people see Egypt as black West African but has also been mainly North East African up to what is the current day Somalia. It is presumed that Egyptian language is linked closer to Semitic but it has very close genetic ( paternal haplogroup E-M78 being the main Egyptian paternal lineage which is what more related to the current day North East African genetic descendants ) and linguistic closeness to Cushitic languages. One close word to look at is the word Ra which was an Egyptian which is now used as the prefix and suffix in Cushitic language. The word Qorraxdu / Qurrax being the sun or Breakfast being Quraac (this being from the Somali language). The Sun God was at its high of worship during the 5th dynasty of Queen Hatshepsut. Lastly the religious practice of circumcisions. Most Egyptian women are circumcised in the first or second degrees. The practice probably originated in Pharaonic Egypt, in which it was invested with mythological significance. This is also practiced till this day in most North East African countries that had links to Egypt. So to conclude Egypt, has always been linked to the region around it but have been historically separated after the 8th century after Arabic took over. Before it was the slow language change and the elites being the new conquering groups like Alexandria having lot of Southern European influence. The Persian during their reign and later with the Turks and their Slavic slaves ( which is where we got the word Slave from). The people being lighter as they are more Northern than the Sub-Saharan people by a few shades but the history is linked to its region, North East Africa. Sorry for the rant. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68 wayback.archive-it.org/all/20171010093322/academic.oup.com/mbe/article/24/6/1300/984002/Tracing-Past-Human-Male-Movements-in-Northern#77759287 - E-M78 dna links.
I always wondered about this myself. I have heard that America is the Old Egypt (Ta'meri/Tamerikaans). Ancestry DNA test are only for entertainment because it shows you where people with similar DNA qualities reside present day. They have refused to allow DNA testing on any mummies extracted from the tombs that they have found. Why is that I wonder?
Africa and black are not synonymous. Ancient Egyptians were not all black either. That is clear from ancient Egyptian artefacts. Black people did exist there but it is unlikely they were the ruling class. They were a Mediterranean culture and it is important to understand that they themselves would not have thought in terms of being African, it really wasn’t a thing back then. Were they dark skinned? Well that depends upon what you think of as dark skinned now, in the 21st century! It is our construct not theirs. Mostly too it is a construct based around what American people think, and then reverberated around the world. And no matter what you believe about Cleopatra your views on this, unless you are Egyptian, are very subjective. I was brought up with multiple images of the past, especially Middle Eastern and North African biblical images as being hugely whitewashed, both in Traditional European depictions of the bible and more recent depictions in the movies and other forms of image making. I ALWAYS knew that Cleopatra as depicted in the movies ( Liz Taylor) was not accurate or factual, and I was around when it was released. So I was never under any illusions that she was white. At the time Greeks were not considered white either! So what we have left are contemporary images of her to go on, and those do not appear to depict her as black. My guess is she was neither, but like Mediterranean people have been for as long as people have depicted them that she was a shade of indeterminate non-white that we call brown! I can absolutely understand Egyptians being aggravated by this, it is a white world argument that is going on, even when conducted by black people, because not everywhere in the world has this binary division. In fact there are places where you can go where colour is not political and where whatever people actually are is accepted, no matter there skin tone. Mostly these are not places with this binary legacy of a mess. Do I think it is ok for any character from the past to be portrayed by a black person? Well yes, why not. Just don’t politicise is or make it about fact. It is as valid in terms of ACTING as a white Cleopatra. It is when you insist that either represents the REALITY of the past accurately. We cannot even trust DNA tests fully in this respect as they are mainly done by companies that set phenotypes and dna according to some odd biases, because of how they classify the world and the past. It would be interesting to see what would be the results of Egyptian dna tests and data gathering done with modern Egyptian biases! I mean how much closer to reality would that get us? As people who have used the well known companies know the interpretation of data can change massively over time. Anyway I think the whitewashing of the past is not in doubt. We know it occurred. However is it necessary to be that kind of rigid when we look at ‘not whiteness’? Humans exist in a spectrum what is so difficult about accepting that? I think that would be a better thing to pass to the future than compounding the problem. Maybe then it would cease to be problematic. So many modern issues tied up in all of this, and really does a Netflix interpretation dictate reality? Or determine our own sense of self based on its depictions of the past? Or can we pass on pride in our being without going through the movies. How about cultivating strong self imagining of each child’s being and worth without reliance on skin as a mediator? There are literally billions of humans who are neither white nor black, who do not want to be seen as either, or to have their ancestors regarded as either. Do they have a voice in this! I think the Egyptian outcry is about this. The POV of the plurality of Africa, and the diversity of it’s history. And let’s not forget language either…… kings and queens are the uppermost tip of a pyramid in which there is no representation of the vast majority of humans, do we really want to model the future on that and everything it represents? We focus on the Pharaohs and rulers of ancient Egypt but in reality the art of that time shows depictions of people in all sorts of professions and occultations, at work, at leaure and play, as all sorts of human, maybe the focus would be more interesting if those people were reimagined. Not the tiny few who lived in unimaginable luxury.
Hi! I recently found your channel, and love the content. As far as the Egyptian backlash, this is NOT the first time. Basically, it boils down to anti-Black sentiment on their part. The most famous Egyptian president of the 20th century, Anwar Sadat (1970-81) was a BLACK Egyptian of Nubian descent. After he was assassinated, Hollywood made a movie about his life, starring Lou Gossett Jr., a well-known African American actor in the 80s. The same Egyptian press and government officials were livid that a Black man was portraying Sadat, who was another Black man!! They banned the film (1984) and boycotted Columbia Pictures. This just shows how bigoted their power structure is. Lou Gossett Jr looked almost identical to Sadat!! All of this info can be Googled. When I was visiting Dubai in 2017, people assumed I was Black Arab or "something". I met several Egyptians and they were all Black, and darker than I am. They immediately called me "brother" and said I should visit Egypt some day. Most contemporary Egyptians are not Black, but enough are. In Cleopatra VII 's reign, Egypt was much more diverse, and hadn't yet experienced half of its invasions. Many more people were Black or Brown. If her sister Arsinoe IV was mixed race (it's documented), why wouldn't Cleopatra VII be mixed as well.... especially since no one knows for sure who her mother was??
Danielle, this is a hot topic and you have handled it with your usual flair. In recent years, it has come to my attention that what actually happened does not always match what is reported AFTER the event. I approach written content with caution because of that. Statues or other tangible representations of people and/or events hold more weight for me since it is difficult (but not impossible) to alter objects that are out there in the public domain. The texture of the hair in the bust that was shown in this video appears to be kinky, but I am sure that both sides of this argument can explain that to support their personal beliefs. 😉 I love how your channel is a place where conversations of race, identity, DNA, etc. can be discussed. Thank you for keeping us thinking and questioning everything. ❤
Cleopatra was an inbred Greek and would not have looked like local Egyptians. It would be like saying a the daughter of a British governor, born in 1800s India would look Indian just because she happen to be born there. The debate over the color of the average ancient Egyptian is separate topic from this.
I find your videos interesting and I respect your perspective I think it is insightful . Now in regards to Cleopatra first she was a Greek woman with a little African ancestry remember she was part of the Ptomely dynasty which was created when Alexander the Great died his general Ptomely took over Egypt .Furthermore Cleopatra wasn’t really an Egyptian , Egypt at this time was not the Egypt of the Pharaohs the real Egyptians who built the Sphinx , The pyramids , the Egyptians mystery school containing the secrets of science and astrology the Egypt of builders so scientifically advanced engineers today can’t figure out how they built pyramids and monuments . She has no connection or lineage to Imhotep , Akhenaten, Djoser, Menes , Nefeteri it’s like saying the Spanish conquistadors built the Aztec pyramids . She was just part of the colonizers who usurped the real Egyptians just like the Arabs who occupy Egypt now, they have nothing to do with ancient Egypt they came to Egypt when Islam was spread and yes there were some here before like the Hyksos but they were considered foreigners to the actual Egyptians and were expelled after 80 years . In fact the word Egypt is a Greek word the actual land is called Kemit and not Egypt . The Greeks lived 2000 years after the Egyptians and much of what we are told about “Egypt” comes through this perspective .When you go to Egypt and your go on a “tour” of the famous sites you only learn the perspective of the current rulers of this land . Cleopatra is no women to be proud of there are many many other actual real Egyptian queens starting with Nefeteri to make movies about . This media obsession with her is laughable.
Cleopatra was not black. She was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, which means that she was Macedonian Greek. She was inbred as all royal Egyptian rulers were expected to marry with other family members in order to keep the bloodline pure. Just look at how messed up King Tut's DNA was. His parents were brother and sister!...Yuck! She spoke numerous languages, including Egyptian, but her first language was Greek. It's not that hard to figure out.
Thanks for sharing your video and views! There are a few things here, that I think confuse a lot of people - especially in the US. 1. Africa is a massive continent, and people look very different, depending on where they are from - e.g. North Africa, West Africa, etc. A blanket comment of ‘all African’s are black’ (which is what Jada alludes too), is incorrect, and narrow minded. North Africans are a Mediterranean people - they don’t look like someone from Senegal, or Kenya, or Nigeria. And that’s the same for someone from Ethiopia, who would look different to someone from Ghana, Cameroon or Mali. 2. DNA evidence shows Egyptians of today, are the descendants of Ancient Egyptians. So if Cleopatra was half Greek and half Egyptian, she would still look Mediterranean, and no sub-Saharan. 3. Cleo’s identity is not as debated as Netflix/Jada make it out to be. Most academics agree that her family practiced inbreeding, and any theories around her mother are just that - theories, and they vary. The most common are she was Greek, she was Egyptian, or she may have been Iranian (through the Seleucid kingdoms to the east). While their is unfortunately a political agenda behind the person cast to play her in the upcoming documentary, this is offensive to both Egyptians and Greeks - who share a part on Cleo’s history, and using the excuse of “is debated” as an open door to cast whoever, just goes to show the lack of detail or investigation done in producing this “documentary”.
Thank you so much for this thoughtful contribution to the conversation. I hate to think the casting choice was more political agenda than artistic margin, but we live in a different world these days.
Modern nA of present day Egyptians does NOT trace there lineage back to the ancient Egyptians. The ancient Egyptians showed the world who they were from thousands of temple writings and pictures and statues. They was an Kemet African civilization and people. Perhaps if people remove the modern day prejudice against black people then we all will see what the Greeks said on the subject
We Africans are equally outraged about this. We really don’t care about cleopatra. But why blame Netflix ? There are a lot of questions the whole world need answers to that not a single Egyptian can provide. So of course the misappropriation of your culture will continue. Give the world the answers it needs. 1. How was the pyramids built. And what was its purpose. ? 2. Why was the name changed from kemet to Egypt ? 3. What do the glyphs mean. ? 4. What the Egyptian/ kemet spirituality all about and many more unanswered questions Until then. You are Arabs and Egypt/ Kermit is not Arab. So don’t blame Netflix. We west Africans don’t care about cleopatra. We have so much problems already.
Her father or grandfather was one of Alexander the Great 's friends and generals. She could have been a light complexion and able to pass like many of us. Great video Danielle!
a lot further back than that 335 or so BC and she was around 45BC but she was surrounded by Greeks from teachers to generals not much interaction with everyday Egyptians
@@cathleenhunzeker1344 possible but we aren't talking her interaction here. We are talking racial mak up/Ethnicity. Ya wouldn't know I am mixed by looking at me, but I am.
She was Greek, not African American and not "black". "Black people" don't exist. There is no country called "Black" or "Blackrica" or "Blackriland" or "Blaxico". The term "black people" emerged as a self-identifying term for African Americans during the mid-1960s as part of the Civil Rights Movement and the Black Power movement. And I'm pretty sure the pyramid builders were not African Americans (aka "black") who lived AFTER 1960.
I looked at a fair amount Ancient Egyptian art and they seemed to have a variety of features and skin shades. Cleopatra was Greek but if we don't know her mother's heritage it seems hard to be sure what she looked like.
Her mother was 90% likely to be Cleopatra V, her father's wife. The only reason it's not "confirmed" is that there are no documents explicitly stating it. That said, there were NO accusations that she was illegitimate, and if she had been her political enemies would have jumped at the opportunity to use that against her.
Finally and intelligent conversation on this. We just dont know for sure what half her heritage is. Honestly this wouldnt be a big deal if she was a white actress
Nice content..historians are not quite united when it comes to topic about cleopatras skin color. Personally I would pick the historical theories and opinions prior to the Netflix issue, I feel like those are less biased and more objective. These new opinions and theories coming out this 2023 are either politically motivated and have some underlying agendas.
Actually historians are quite sure she was not black and llooked caucasian. They are also sure ancient were never black. They were brown skin semitics. Egyptians are not happy because afrocentrics keep trying to steal egyptian history
What historians are you talking about. There are literal accounts on her appearance by numerous people. Ffs it's recorded that she had light skin and red hair
@@joelhungerford8388 what accounts are you talking about?, Red haired?. you mean the the images from Pompeii and Hurculaneum during her period?, But those are NOT CONFIRMED to be Cloepatra, some historians just assumed that those are images of Cleopatra. White skin?, you mean that poem from Lucan describing her having white breast? but Lucan havent seen Cleopatra in flesh, lemme guess, you just begin searching stuff this 2023? Well enlighten me and let me see or give me links of those accounts that you are talking about perhaps I just missed something.
Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian!!!!!!! She's from Greece!!! What's this obsession with the color anyway?! EGYPTIANS ARE African because Egypt is located I. AFRICA. SOO WHY DOES THIS matter on the skin color?? Just Being from a country that's inside africa isn't enough for The people I'm 80% German and I'm sure if I lived in Egypt and I was outside in the sun my skin would be very very dark!! Everyone wants Racism ro stop but nobody ever shuts up about the color of someone skin. It's such a sad a pathetic argument when people haven't stopped to say. Wait cleo isn't even Egyptian and it's Hot in Egypt and it's in Africa so.. yes I'm sure their skin is dark. Also go to Egypt today. The people today will show you the true skin of Egyptians. Why would color change from then till today!?!?!? Stop segregating everyone due to color and get your facts correct before speaking on it! Love and Light Beautiful ones 🤍💙💚💜🦄💫👽🛸
Even if that would be the case, what has it to do with Cleopatra? There are more than 1000 years between them and Tut is definetly not related to Cleopatra in any way.
From what we know is I think it is safe to say Cleopatra was most likely Greek in appearance. But it does show that Egyptians society has the typical global colorism issue. It seems the answer is that Egyptians span from whitish middle eastern appearance to caramel color african appearance. But there seems to be a huge outrage if someone mistakes them for being mostly african in appearance but very little outrage if people mistake them for being a population that is 100 % in middleastern with some european appearance. The fact that they are listed as white in the US census does the job of erasing dark skin Egyptians and by definition could be said to be erasing egyptian identity. Fact is most people even the majority of black americans think Egypt is located in the middle east next to other middle eastern countries and think the population is 95% middleastern.
@@Berserker-ep3rs That’s what you want to believe. I had a good friend in college who is Egyptian along with here WHOLE family. She is my complexion with Afro textured hair. One day we were walking across 7th Avenue in NYC after class, she used to dress very eccentric and was wearing a very loud and bright neon yellow coat when 3 young guys walking in the opposite direction crossed our paths started laughing and dissing her to her face in Arabic. Why??? Because they didn’t think she understood them because obviously they didn’t think she was one of them because she didn’t fit phenotype that they thought Egyptians look like! So, please miss me on that we’re not sub Saharan Africans nor were your ancestors mess. Kmt!
@Berserker we have numbers from barbers...prices ....many women for that you did not sleep with them and today you have 6-8% of their dna ( almost all of it introduced through women ) that your ancestors did not have
As a history nerd of mixed ethnicity I think Hollywood was wrong on both accounts of first whitewashing then blackwashing Cleopatra. Egyptians are allowed to be upset but civilised please and no hate mail, especially as actresses just do what the director tells them to after being casted. I think the people of Egypt in the time of the Pharaoh's will have looked pretty similar to the people living there today, and that is neither white nor black but a Mediterranean/Middle Eastern mix. So I understand that after repeated cultural appropriation the Egyptians get ticked off.
When you say Pharos would look like the people living there today what do you mean . As far is I’ve seen the old kingdom and Middle Kingdom when the pyramids were built the people their looked different then the people their now.
@@Maatson_ I think only the dress and hair styles changed, the skin color in Egypt looks pretty similar now than it did 4,000 years ago. The last 2-3 generations more people will have worked inside which will lead to lighter skin tones in the really long run.
@@mogreen19 I appreciate the input but I beg to differ, at the end of the middle kingdoms and most of the new kingdoms Egypt was concurred by the Hyksos , the Persian , Greek a few others and the Arabs which are still their today . Egypt became a melting pot of mixed races way after the pyramids were built. Also Egypt was not a costal country in old kingdoms majority of their kingdoms were in southern Egypt. they also had More cultural ties to what is modern day Sudan their neighbors. Not only that they stated their ancestors came from the beginning of the Nile well that’s in Southern Africa at two main points . I say all this to say that their ancestors has a strong connection to souther Africa aka Sudan Ethiopia and Kenya then it did europ , not until the late middle kingdoms and new kingdoms when it became a melting pot . Even when it became a melting pot we have several Greek and Roman writers who describe the difference between the Egyptian and the other groups that came and mixed with them.
This is almost as bad as Tolkien fans flaming black dwarves. Tolkien drew on Norse mythology and most Norse dwarves were dark. Yes, Cleopatra was of a Greek dynasty but the Ptolemies had been in Egypt for centuries. Even with their taste for incest it is unlikely they were still purely Greek. Upper Egypt aka Nubia was in the Egyptian civilization and even ascendant at times. Ani in the book of the dead is fairly dark and shows a very tightly curled hair type. The actress is almost certainly darker than Cleopatra, certainly lighter than some Pharaohs and probably lighter than a few of Cleopatra's ancestors.
My "problem" with the black dwarves and elves wasn't that they were black, it was that this series was meant as a PREQUEL to the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings movies. And as such one has to wonder what happened to all the black people to make for an all-white cast (excepting Orcs!) in the original LOTR movies that timeline-wise were meant to happen later.
Maybe Hollywood should make a real and true movie about the American .Look up the definition for American first Edition1828 and look at them pennies. Europeans did the same thing with the Egyptian and Cleopatra .Also look up Emblem of America1798 this is how white people white wash history
Black Genesis: The prehistoric origin of ancient Egypt/Kemet presents proof that an advanced Black African civilization inhabited the sahara long before pharaonic Egypt/Kemet reveals Black Africa to be at the Genesis of ancient civilization and the human story.
@@Chris-dt5td she was not white, she was black and the word black in convoluted also. Her sisters DNA indicated that she was Nubian, she that should help clarify the color, hopefully.
I don’t intend to watch this documentary. I did watch the British show that cast a black actress as Anne Boleyn but that was a fictional account not a documentary.
The Arab population of Egypt today are not the original ancient Egyptians by blood which is a fact. They are only Egyptians by invasion and now because they live there. Muslims invaded Egypt and Arabs are now the majority population. Europeans invaded the Americas but Europeans are not the original ancient Native Americans. That is the same fact about Egyptians. Ancient Egyptians had to convert to Muslim or die. However, the people of ancient Egyptians were not Muslim until they were forced to convert in order to live. DNA doesn't lie so the Egyptians who are of Arab descendants are not from the bloodline of the original ancient Egyptians who were black before admixture. The Grecians have not found any records in Greece claiming that Cleopatra's mother was European. Remember that Europeans are great at documenting their lineages. Therefore for Greece to never show any records of Cleopatra's mother, she may have been Egyptian which were a people of melanated skin tones of different shades of black. However, no Egyptian records share who Cleopatra's mother was and if she was Egyptian. The original ancient Egyptians were black. A black or mixed race Cleopatra is more realistic to me that a Grecian Cleopatra. Too bad there is no available records about who her mother was or should I say there's no remaining records of who her mother was. Europeans all through history have lied about the true identity of many people of color.
Your brother is handsome and does look Arab. 🙂 I will check out the documentary. People get their panties in a wad over stuff like this. See how this concept of 'race" has been used to hurt us all? . We haven't been taught our true history, and one day everything will come to life. And I think then the whole world will be shocked. Original people from that land were black. I remember writing something about this in a paper in grad school, and my professor made sure to correct my (small) comment telling me something about Greece, and etc. As long as the mainstream history is accepted, this is not likely to be corrected. I like how you said, "how we discuss identity as a whole." And that is it. It's all been twisted and so we have to go through this. But that's another subject for another time. That's my 0.2. Sending love to you!
She was Macedonian, with no black African DNA like myself. Black to most people means Sub Saharan. That being said, we Sub Saharans aren't homogenious. Some of us are extremely dark, and others are light, with varying phenotypes. But genetically few people in ancient Egypt have our DNA so she definitely wasn't black or African exactly she was more so Eurasian.
George, I need to read up on this. Was the continent of Africa not called Africa at that time? I guess it matters if we are retroactively applying labels. Thanks for the comment
@@nytn the African continent was named Africa in the 17th century. During roman times, Africa was a province of the roman empire that consisted of north africa, Tunisia, Algeria and Libya (at least some parts of these countries).
@@nytn you are welcome. Also, to bring more context. Egypt during the reign of Cleopatra VII was still within the Hellenistic period. After her death, it got annexed into its roman province and the Hellenistic period in Egypt ended. Egypt, up until Cleo’s death, was conquered by various foreign powers, right before the greeks were the achaemenedic persians and after her the romans who annexed it as their province. Back then, as greek rulers over Egypt, Cleopatra’s family did not throughout the 300 years want to assimilate with the Egyptian civilization and married within the family as this would ensure both the purity of the bloodline and the social class they belonged to. Cleopatra that we know of the most was the 7th and last. She was also married to her brothers. (Just not at the same time lol), the only one of her entire family to learn the Egyptian language and had children with both Caesar and mark antony.
@@dreamiden Scipio Africanus was a Roman general who fought in Africa tho' - are you saying that the Romans just called that northern area Africa, but didn't have the concept that it was a continent as yet? Interesting.
Something that’s missed in these discussions is the fact that many cultures want to be closely identified with Europeans more than their own identity. You will notice this phenomenon in South and Central America and Middle East. They want to be more recognized with European ancestry than indigenous ancestry. The comment on your brother was clear example when you mentioned it. People of colour outside the west would bleach their skins to avoid their ancestry.
...and white ppl go to the beach / solarium to get darker skin and europeans talk more about their ancestry outside of europe. Very weak arguments all together.
why would you struggle about Cleopatra race? there are pure Black queens, Like Queen Taytu, who won Italy battle ( The Battle of ADWA) Ethiopia. I think Jeda need to produce this documentary.
The consensus among scholars is that she was a light skinned Macedonian greek. Now, there is some Syrian blood that got into the Ptolemaic line from an earlier marriage with a Seleucid queen, which was no other than Cleopatra I, introducing that name in the lineage, the famous one is Cleopatra VII. The Seleucids were Greeks too, but they intermarried more often with the local nobility, meanwhile the Ptolemies inbreeded, so it’s even harder that she had any strong non-greek trait. Now, as her mother been a black concubine, it is a ridiculous long shot, if there had been any hint that she was a bastard, that would have been used by her enemies in Rome, particularly Octavian, would have written about it long and often, to discredit her, and there are just no records. If her mother wasn’t Cleopatra VI most likely would have been someone from a reputable noble family, and she being from Alexandria, a greek city, most likely, it would have been someone greek.
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Please do a video about how the human race originated in Africa. I am sure most scientists and scholars will all agree to this documented fact. Thanks
Africans we’re also the true Jewish peoples and the original American Indians and Vikings and Queen Elizabeth was African but racist won’t acknowledge it. ✊🏾✊🏾
@@MostBeautifullest Id love to talk to someone about this topic, I'll look into it! Thanks for the suggestion
@@MostBeautifullest not really it not a fact.....
I love this my Grandfather took me around to many places I have seen the Ziggurat of Syria, pyramids of Egypt and Incas - and study cultures for around the world.... The problem is not that she is black the problem is someone taking the culture and twisting it like a white man playing Obama the 1st black president and saying this is a documentary of Reality.....
The truly ironic thing is that Cleopatra was "THE OPPRESSOR" The Ptolemies were a foreign Macedonian Greek dynasty that ruled over the native Egyptians for 300 years. It's telling that in all that time, only one Ptolemy, the last one, Cleopatra herself, even bothered to learn the Egyptian language. Cleopatra's Egypt was not the Egypt of the pharoahs and the pyramids, it was Greek Egypt. An Egypt dominated by a Greek ruling class.
They all had Egyptian names. And held Egyptian religion and culture. There's one contemporary source and mostly destroyed. We actually have very little evidence on their racial make up after 300 years of living in Africa as gods. All we can do is believe a family tree that we know is missing the multiple wives and concubines of each person on the tree.
Let's put this in perspective the debate is around the necessary purity of blood of lady with multiple baby daddies and multiple husbands all of whom had wives.
You're a white god and Beyoncé feeds you grapes what do you do? 99.9% of all men make black babies. 😂
That is absolutely correct. Although I wouldn't call her an 'oppressor'. Heavy word I mean she was queen after a 300 year old dynasty in a setting of Kingdoms at the time (all Greek). It's basically how the world was run back then, plus before the Ptolemey dynasty, Egypt was under Persian rule and had basically welcomed Alexander with open arms getting him to be crowned in the desert as a Pharao and depicting him with a horn in his head in their paintings and statues. Greeks had deep respect for Egyptians and vice verca. The Ptolemay dynasty while indeed was the ruling class and did not learn or marry Egyptians, made a series of advancments (lighthouse and library of Alexandria) build an amazing network of trade from Egypt, and basically made the coutnry the scientific and philosophic center of the world. Math, science and astronomy took off from 300 bc to 100 ad all with Greek support. It was a great example of two ancient civilizations co-existing and the proof of that is that we see no uprivals from Egyptians to Greek rule. Instead there was deep respect between cultures. That is why 'Oppression' is a heavy word. Thanks
Can't agree here, although the Macedonian were the colonizers, the Egyptians accepted Cleopatra vii as one of their own because she learned the language and was for the people.... The Greeks got their math from the Egyptians or Babylonians who got it from other Africans. Pythagoras basically put out what he learned from the egyptians and pyramids he did not create it. Another thing is the science/alchemy, even Herodotus said this.
Lastly, it's documented that one of the Cleopatra sisters was mixed race and also documented that her father was not fully Macedonian as he was the product of an affair.
@@ScarabChronicles so if the Egyptians accepted her as you say, how was she an 'oppressor'? She can't be both
@@Underground_Caveman5353 I didn't say she was an oppresser, that was the previous commentator 😊
Cleopatra's ethnicity is not the real problem, the real problem is that people roughly divide people into two dualistic extremes, blacks and whites, which is actually childish and absurd because in reality there are more than two tones in the spectrum. And because this spectrum of hues is vast and diverse, people don't agree on what they mean and who they count as "black" and "white."
Daniel, absolutely. I think that creates most of the problems
Daniel, agree 100%
Anwar Sadat’s mother was Sudanese and these ignorant modern day Egyptians got pissed about Louis Gossett jr playing him, but didn’t say shit about the 10 commandments movie or The Mummy or Exodus Gods and Kings.
@@adpowell1414 the college I went to automatically assigned most non-white people as being "black" no matter what they considered themselves. You're from India studying here internationally? Black. And so on.
@@bricktwo5849 I found it bull shit that these modern day Egyptians whinning about cleopatra being portrayed by a biracial woman, never once stood up for Mr Hefny who the 🇺🇸 wanted him to claim whiteness
The basis of Jada Pinkett's Cleopatra is "I don't care what they tell you in school, cleopatra was black"
She is literally perpetuating African American's own prejudice that they are uneducated.
The fact that Jada is also claiming this to be a *Documentary* is a problem - she is trying to claim that her show is factual.
This wouldn't have received such criticisms if she made this as a work of fiction.
Exactly.... and THAT is why they are being sued. Portraying this as historical accuracy is the problem.
Emblem of America1798.We aren't black or African American look up the definition of American Webster1828.We are the copper colored people .The real American Indian. Europeans did the same thing in Egypt.Your Miseducated
Of course African Americans are “uneducated “ because we don’t believe the systematic teachings that a white person try to get us to believe. Anything in Africa is of black descent…
No that isn’t the basis of it. That was just an exerpt from someone’s commentary from the project, which by the way ISN’T even released yet! 😂😂 So what are you trying to summarize? 😂 you haven’t even seen it.
@@gew2027 Idiot Agyptians Love us until Today we Help Ägypt back in Time and we like them To Stop Trashtalk and put all europeans in bad Light read the History before
I’m an Arab and Arabia is in Asia so I’m a samurai by Netflix logic
They didn't make her a profession. Bad comparison. Also the actress is MIXED
No you’re an Arab Caucasian just like the current colonizers that proclaim to be from the lineage of ancient Kemet. Just like the paintings and busts and how the Greeks called them the sun kissed people your Arab brothers conquered and are attempting to steal history bc you lack your own.
1) Egyptians aren’t Arabs.
2) Hawass is full of crap, and he’s going to be destroyed be the scientific community.
3) in total there have been 7 Cleopatras. The last one is the one with the controversy. This last one was perhaps of Ptolemaic descent. We never had any DNA extraction.
4) however, the Cleopatra that is talked about was found to allegedly have mixed heritage (biracial). Based on cranial metrics she’s “biracial”. Not sure if the measured her limb ratio and body portions. That could contribute to her being tropical adapted, intermediate or cold adapted.
5) many older studies considered Egyptians (Northeast Africans) to be of biracial descent. Modern anthropology has confirmed that ancient Egyptians mostly were indigenous in situ development (local evolution). And during the recent invasions in Egypt, these authors claimed that Egyptians were a nation of biracial people. That is what Europeans themselves wrote. This was between the 16th and 18th century.
Now, what did they look like and who were the ancient Egyptians, based on modern science?
"Many of the sites reveal evidence of important interactions between Nilotic and Saharan groups during the formative phases of the Egyptian Predynastic Period (e.g. Wadi el-Hôl, Rayayna, Nuq’ Menih, Kurkur Oasis). Other sites preserve important information regarding the use of the desert routes during the Protodynastic and Pharaonic Periods, particularly during periods of political and military turmoil in the Nile Valley (e.g. Gebel Tjauti, Wadi el-Hôl)."
(Yale University Department of Egyptology, Theban Desert Road Survey and Yale Toshka Desert Survey)
*Some groups (using cemeteries E-01-2, E-03-1, E-03-2, and E-09-4) show some affiliation with sub-Saharan Africans, readable in the pottery assemblage and other grave goods, as well as some morphological features “
(Irish 2010; Kobusiewicz and Kabaciński 2010; Czekaj-Zastawny and Kabaciński 2015).*
*”There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.*
*In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas* [...]
Any interpretation of the biological affinities of the ancient Egyptians must be placed in the context of hypothesis informed by the archaeological, linguistic, geographic or other data.
*In this context the physical anthropological evidence indicates that the early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation.*
This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection influenced by culture and geography"
(Kathryn A. Bard, Egyptians, physical anthropology of Physical anthropology (2015))
“The process of the peopling of the Nile Valley likely shaped the population structure and early biological similarity of Egyptians and Nubians. As others have noted, affinity among Nilotic populations was due to an aggregation of events, including environmental, linguistic, and sociopolitical changes over a great deal of time. This study seeks to *evaluate the relationships of Nubian and Egyptian groups in the context of the original peopling event.* Cranial nonmetric traits from 18 Nubian and Egyptian samples, *spanning Lower Egypt to Lower Nubia and approximately 7400 years,* were analyzed using Mahalanobis D2 as a measure of biological distance. A principal coordinates analysis and spatial-temporal model were applied to these data. The results reveal temporal and spatial patterning *consistent with documented events in Egyptian and Nubian population history. Moreover, the Mesolithic Nubian sample clustered with later Nubian and Egyptian samples,* indicating that events prior to *the Mesolithic were important in shaping the later genetic patterning of the Nubian population.* Later contact through the establishment of the Egyptian fort at Buhen, Kerma’s position as a strategic trade center along the Nile, and Egyptian colonization at Tombos *maintained genetic similarity among the populations”*
(Godde K, A new analysis interpreting Nilotic relationships and peopling of the Nile Valley (July 2018))
“Post-Pleistocene climatic improvement in the Northern Hemisphere after ca. 9550 BC allowed human populations to recolonize large parts of North Africa in what is today the Sahara Desert. In the Egyptian Western Desert, the beginnings of human occupation date as early as ca. 9300 BC. Occupation continued until the middle of the third millennium BC when final desertification of the area no longer afforded human occupation. The settlement of the Neolithic cattle and sheep/goat herders developed along with the rhythm of alternating wet and dry climatic oscillations. One of the areas occupied intensively during the early and middle Holocene was Gebel Ramlah. Pastoral populations established their settlements around the shores of a paleo-lake adjacent to a rocky massif, to exploit the local savannah environment. During most of the Neolithic, they buried their dead dispersed outside of their settlements. Only during the Final Neolithic (after ca. 4600 BC) did they place them exclusively in cemeteries. Of six Final Neolithic cemeteries investigated at Gebel Ramlah to date, one is entirely unprecedented, not only in North Africa but also globally at such an early date. For just under 200 years (ca. 4500-4300 BC), it served exclusively for the inhumation of infants who died around (perinate) or shortly after the time of birth (neonate). Thirty-two burial pits contained skeletal remains of 39 individuals, not only infants but also at least two adult females accompanied by perinates/neonates. Older children (> 3 years) were interred at a nearby cemetery that primarily comprised adults.
[…]
The area around Gebel Ramlah was settled since the beginning of the Early Neolithic, and the density of settlement reached its maximum during the El Jerar phase (climatic optimum of the Holocene). Traces from the Middle, Late, and Final Neolithic are less intensive and random. In fact, for the Final Neolithic, we have more information on mortuary behavior than for the settlement pattern and subsistence. Between 4500 and 4300 BC, south-western fringes of the Gebel Ramlah lake served as an extended burial ground for different populations. Different ancestry and relationships of these populations can be followed on the basis of archaeological and, partially, bioarchaeological arguments.
These people were certainly mobile, perhaps spending only a few months per year at Gebel Ramlah. The E-09-02 cemeteries for neonates and adults belonged to another, more sedentary group with limited mobility; however, we cannot trace their origins based on the available record. An almost complete lack of grave goods does not allow comparative analyses. On the other hand, peculiar characters of the skeletal remains at these cemeteries-numerous neonatal/perinatal individuals and poorly preserved subadults/adults-do not allow reliable studies based on craniometric or dental data. But, qualitatively, there are no obvious differences among all populations from Gebel Ramlah at the beginning of the Final Neolithic. Thus, the two groups, culturally different, were likely not much different biologically, possibly deriving from the same region of Africa.
[…]
Ethnographic data offer support by showing how radically different children are treated in various African societies (Gottlieb 2004a, b; Pawlik 2004; Kabaciński et al. (2018)).”
(Agnieszka Czekaj-Zastawny & Tomasz Goslar & Joel D. Irish & Jacek Kabaciński, Gebel Ramlah-a Unique Newborns’ Cemetery of the Neolithic Sahara,African Archaeological Review volume 35, pages393-405(2018))
@@wa-bu3ke
And on top of that.
“According to this recent study modern Egyptians are 80% non-African and 20% African. And the non-African admixtures are dated to around 750 years ago. Well, after the foundation of Ancient Egypt or the precursor cultures (Badarians, Tasians, Nabta Playa, etc).
[…]
"Using ADMIXTURE and principal-component analysis (PCA) (Figure 1A), we estimated the average proportion of non-African ancestry in the Egyptians to be 80% and dated the midpoint of the admixture event by using ALDER20 to around 750 years ago (Table S2), consistent with the Islamic expansion and dates reported previously."
(Luca Pagan et al., Tracing the Route of Modern Humans out of Africa by Using 225 Human Genome Sequences from Ethiopians and Egyptians)
“The Late Period is often singled out as the time when mass immigration into Egypt altered the character of the country”
(A Companion to Ancient History Edited by Andrew Erskine -2009)
The Muslim conquerors did not attempt a mass conversion of Christianity to Islam, if only because that would have reduced the taxes non-Muslims were compelled to pay, but a number of other factors were at work. Arab “men could marry Christian women and their children would become Muslim. Large-scale Arab immigration into Egypt began during the eighth century.”
(A History of Egypt: From Earliest Times to the Present by Jason Thompson - 2009)
Trinkhaus found Holocene Egyptians plotting nearer to, or resemble more other tropically adapted peoples like Pygmies, US Blacks and Melanesians. The closest match is with fellow Africans. Southern Europeans like Yugoslavs, Northern Europeans like Belgians, and white Americans are more distant from the US blacks and Egyptians. (Trinkhaus, E. (1981) ‘Neanderthal limb proportions and cold adaptation’. p. 211). Trinkhaus’s results confirm studies going back to the 1950s, and recent limb studies by Zakrewski (2003). Raxter, Ruff et. al. (2008) applied limb analysis to ancient Egyptians. The outcome was the same. US Blacks linked closer to the Egyptians, than whites. (Raxter & Ruff, et al. (2008) Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians. Amer J. Phy Anthro 136 (2), 147-55.)
@@TheRealCompensatormodern egyptians are arab.
I like Bridgerton, and I'm not gonna go all "OMG. they Blackwashed Queen Charlotte!". But Bridgerton is a lighthearted playing around with history and is not pretending to be in any way factual. This series is marketed as a documentary, and with that comes stricter standards for trying to be objectively correct.
Queen Charlotte have black Moorish blood in her veins do your research.
Hate to burst your bubble but Queen Charlotte's descendants were "black" moors on at least one side of her parents.
@@babyboy562 she hasnt are u dummy or something? how many times you ignorants will ignore history Moor means muslim as simple as that even Spanish muslims were called moor and vast majortiy of moors were middle eastern and north african meaning neither white (european) neither black (sub saharan african) in fact moors that were black was a minority and blacks that were soldiers were slave soldiers used by MENA people against Spaniards so Charlotte doesnt have an black ancestry not to mention her so called moor ancestor was 5 generation back
@@childofthelight007 Hate to burst your bubble (ok, that's a lie, I don't hate, but enjoy to do so), but
1. Queen Charlotte's allegedly black ancestor is a woman from Portugal called Madragana who wasn't black. She was not a Moor, but from a "Mozarab" = Iberian family.
2. Even if you, against evidence, refute no. 1, the allegedly black ancestor was a woman that lived 13 (!) generations before Charlotte. That is the best the people who want Charlotte to be black can get. Easy math to find out, that this would be one black ancestor among 8192 ancestors, or 0.01%. So the best take for Charlotte beeing black or "mixed race" is a mixture where literally 99.99% are white.
Cleopatra (Κλεοπάτρα) and her family can't be black African figures because the were Greeks. The Ptolemies originated in the Greek kingdom of Macedonia (Alexander the Great). She was just the last member of a Greek Dynasty that ruled Egypt, as other Greek Dynasties ruled Asian kingdoms in the same period (Bactria, Pergamon, Seleucid Empire, Indo-Greek kingdom etc)
{Greek/Hellenistic period of Asia and North Africa}
Most Netflix casting are of black and white mixed race couples. They’re obsessed with black interracial couples and equal representation be damned. It doesn’t surprise me that they would take the mixed race angle in this biased, blackwashed, documentary. That’s why I’m canceling Netflix.
Look up the Phoenicians who started greece they where black
@@MaxTobyMaxtoby-eq7ri Phoenicians that did live around Indo Europeans ...only days away from Anatolia ..have been black and Indo Europeans did not see it
@@MaxTobyMaxtoby-eq7ri Having dark or olive-toned skin doesn't make you black, just like having curly hair doesn't either.
@@JJLV2495 14th Century Occiton Manuscript British Library. They have Cleopatra and family as being black.The paintings are600 years old.And Europeans did them .
“Jada Pinkett Smith isn’t a good historian or even researcher. And that’s important when you’re producing documentaries that aim to educate millions of people on important topics.”
This is 100% true. Jada's is not a historian or researcher since we're being honest. My first major in college was history, I actually got an Associates degree in history. It was tough, but I switched going for my Bachelors. Historians aim for a BA, I got a BS in research science. Eventually, I obtained an MS degree. My professor thought an MA would suit me better.
I said all that to say this, I have a degree. I know Cleopatra was half Greek, and I would still watch the show. The ancient Egyptian's weren't Europeans, but Europeans played them in movie's. Ancient Egyptians' culture, traditions, the way they dressed, and funeral practices can be found all over Africa. By Africans who knew nothing of Egyptians. Yall said nothing about that
@@mannataylor8002 You say she was half Greece like you know what her other half was, we don't know her mother but she could be greek/ some part greek so it would be more correct to say she was at least half greek. Also i hate when people bring double standards when it doesn't apply to everyone, i personally know have arguments about Disney making Nani light skinned which is bad, the character was dark skinned and we should represent dark skinned women. That doesn't mean people can steal my culture, didn't netflix made Achilles black as well some years ago? I personally like african mythology, there are so many things to explore but media just cares for money and over use the same things again and again, Americans should stop profiting from other cultures
@@anna.owo. I study Greek Mythology in College It's actually my favorite. That Black Achilles netflix Bullshid? nobody watched that, but the world knows Troy. That Blk guy wasn't African he was a Blk Greek, Brad Pitt isn't Greek. I guess because he's Pale skinned y'all said nothing. I promise 🙏 you, outside of a handful of dumb BlK people. Blks don't want to steal, be, or have anything to do with Greek culture trust me.
You White people kill me lol, the problem isn't about who plays Cleopatra. The problem is White's wanting the power to control. The power to say who's allowed to play this character. Cleopatra may have been Half Greek, or more. Her heart, she was as African as the very first Pharaoh's. Like I said White's play whoever they want.
The overwhelming majority of people whining about this aren’t any kind of historians at all .
From my perspective, as someone who studied ancient Egypt for nearly 50 years (I even wrote a book about it), I can assure you that this Netflix documentary is something I wouldn't line a bird cage with.
The problem is the main claim coming from the African and European scholars who disagree with you is that Egyptology itself is the culprit.
Don't try to pass the buck. Garbage has nothing to do with Egyptology.@@ḵulagaaw
The issue is over if the movie should be called a documentary. I am fine with someones view that Cleopatra could be black. Just don't call the movie a documentary. It doesn't match with history or her family from Macedonia hence Greek. Another big issue is movies like to refer to Cleopatra as a queen. She was a pharaoh not a queen. It's a mistake many make. Especially, by folks making fictional types of movies of historical figures.
Well , we well know her greek/ macedonian father's side, but do you know her mother's side?
@Cool b jay Well if that is the case then she's just like Bob Marley(Father White, Mother Black), Or like Obama (Mother White, Father Black) or Like Tiger woods(Mother Asian, Father Black) and African Americans normally call such types of mixed race people as black
@Cool b jay No way
The issue with gal godot being cast as cleopatra wasn't whitewashing it was that she was Israeli and as you know Egypt a Muslim country doesn't get along all that well with Israel. Gal Gadot is actually more middle eastern looking than European looking though she could pass off as a slightly tan Greek. Most Egyptians acknowledge that Cleopatra was primarily if not almost entirely of Greek descent and given the level of inbreeding that occurred with the Ptolemies as well as contemporary depictions of her most historians and history buffs that have delved into the issue contend that she was probably light skinned. Theories of her mother or paternal grandmother being Egyptian have soundly been debunked as there is simply no evidence or documentation of this and is more a case of wishful thinking by some people as it runs counter to what we had come to expect of the Ptolemies and what lengths they would resort to in order to keep their bloodline pure(ie inbreeding).
That's not true. I've have heard black people complain about Gal Gadot being cast, but here's the thing. there were no Muslims back then. Not for another 500years...so the ancient Egyptians were not Muslims.
@@bobbyschannel349 That doesn't matter, modern day Egyptians are and as descendants of Ancient Egypt can kick up a fuss if they don't like the casting. Black people have exactly zero say about Cleopatra. She was NOT in any way shape or form of sub Saharan African descent. There is not a shred of evidence for this, people need to start reading history books and stop listening to their grandmothers.
Also I never understood the obsession of African Americans with Egypt. AA are overwhelmingly of west African descent. The Nubians were east Africans separated by some 3000 miles from west Africa. It is true they ruled Egypt for all of 88 years out of 3000 of Ancient Egyptian civilization but west Africans had exactly zero to do with it. West Africans are about as related genetically and civilizationally to Nubians as Europeans are to Middle Easterners(that is to say not at all). That is like Europeans becoming heavily invested in North Africans claiming that Mansa Musa was actually somehow of MENA(Middle Eastern North African) stock because this way Europeans get to share in the claim somehow? No man, that's not how it works. Insanity pure insanity!
Actually Gal Gadot is so close to Cleopatra since she has ancestors from Egypt and Greece. The only eypgtian problem was she is Israeli
No it is because Gal Gadot is not Greek. Cleopatra was a Greek-Persian woman. Not Israeli.
she is Ashkinasi European Hebrew mostly
I think the issue is that in the documentary it’s being said that cleopatra was a black woman when she was not, she was Macedonian Greek. By the looks of her profile on her coins and the statues of her, she looks Mediterranean. Her family married and procreated within the family, even half siblings procreating with each other to continue the blood line. I know it’s hard for Americans to understand that just because you are born on the continent of Africa, it doesn’t mean you are black. Elon musk and Charlize Theron are an example, so is the Blade Runner. Africa is a very diverse place. Also, not all Africans look like west Africans. I’ve seen Africans with straight hair, blonde hair, colored eyes, light skin. It’s just depends on the region you are from.
Elon Musk and Charlize are the results of colonizers.
It's not hard for Americans to accept and understand what you are saying. It is hard for afrocentric black Americans to accept what you are saying.
@@MrMuttly55 We don’t know what Cleopatra looked like. She had a high probability to be of mixed heritage. They don’t even know here maternal dna makeup.
how the fuck would you know that you see the problem with you white folks and these arab invaders is you are outraged without any proff where are you'll reciepts you have inherited a bunch of lies nd when someone called your decieving asses out you want to arhe.question where are you plale face people at on the walls in egypt oh yea you arent on them walls so terefore cleopatra was no pale skin white women deal with it because we black people know the truth and no amount of fake ass outrage will change that.now carry on liars.
Indigenous Egyptians are black . Also , Macedonians are genetically related to Ethiopians so it’s not far fetched to claim her as black .
If this is a subject of exploration that you're genuinely interested in and looking to further understand, then I'd adamantly recommend a book by Senegalese anthropologist and physicist, Cheikh Anta-Diop: 'The African Origin of Civilization, Fact or Fiction?' (1974). Its a great foot into the door of the debate and makes clear why the subject is such a point of contention, especially in 2023 and moving forwards.
Unfortunately the debate has been skewed somewhat by its presentation via Cleopatra, who was of the Ptolemaic's, a Macedonian Greek, colonising class at the twilight of Ancient Egyptian civilization, whereas the debate itself is more interested in earlier Pre-Dynastic, Old Kingdom, Middle and New Kingdom dynasties, when Egypt/Kemet's majority population will have been indigenous to the land. After all, Egypt/Kemetic history is incredibly extensive, Cleopatra 7th living closer to the construction of the first 'Pizza Hut', than she ever did to the construction of The Pyramids.
She was Greek, and more than likely... her parents were brother and sisters to keep the Royal bloodline pure. What's disturbing is, they are trying to re-write history.
Ok, so I'm African-American and I see your POV. Initially, I thought this was racist nonsense. But this isn't about black being bad or gross, it's about Egyptian history being pillaged and co-opted.
The problem isn't a black actress, it's the incorrect racial labelling of an important Eqyptian figure in a (garbage) documentary. In America, I grew up hearing that Cleopatra was black and was very proud of that fact (so are a lot of people). I've known for decades it wasn't true but some blacks still geniunely believe Cleopatra is being whitewashed by racist. The producers of this series and Netflix are taking advantage of the continuing ignorance/controversy around Egyptian History and reaping attention and ratings. They should be held accountable.
You appear to have a strange take on this subject. I say you "appear" to. I'm not making a judgment. But, you seem to qualify your comment by telling us you're African American as if that either gives you an excuse or a qualification.
I find this puzzling because it would have been more pertinent to tell us you are an authority on ancient Egyptian history, rather than announce your ethnicity.
The fact that you cite your ethnicity rather than your historical knowledge suggests that your take on all of this is more emotional than intellectual.
There is an ongoing debate surrounding the racial makeup of the ancient Egyptians but, in reality, that debate is only so fierce because one side desperately needs their point-of-view to take precedence over the other.
The truth is that nobody knows the exact level of pigmentation in the skin of Cleopatra, but it serves one side more for her to be lighter and the other side more for her to be darker.
One thing is certain though. Cleopatra and all of Ancient Egypt, in fact, all of the histories of civilization are being un-Blacked wherever they possibly can be. That is what should be held accountable.
Cleopatra was Greek and that's fine. What isn't fine is so called modern day Egyptians saying ancient Egyptians weren't BLACK when science has proven they are and some still today over there in AFRICA!!!
So the Egyptian government is sueing Netflix because they're confused about their own heritage.
@@melanatednegus174 Nobody in actual (no fanatic ignorants) academia think Egypt as "white" as US mindset see the word. Which is a whole mess on its own, starting from the total misuse of the term "caucasian". It wasn't also 'black' how US think 'black' is. Not a place like 100% people looked like black Americans. No such thing as "black culture" being Egyptian culture very cosmopolite and being more influenced by mediterranean and asian context than African one. 3/4 of the continent had remote influence on it if compared to mediterranean and asian influence. Even being all blackest black they didn't think of themselves as 'black' neither could they call their culture 'black'. Actually no real African ever could think of himself just ad 'black', even today. 'Black' means something homogenous only in the US. Conclusion: it's just unfit to use modern "race" (=skin tone )obsession for Egyptian and the whole ancient world history.
@@melanatednegus174 Scientific studies (linguistics, history, art history, archaeology, anthropology, paleo-genetics, etc.) of the last 40 years clearly show that the population has been predominantly Afro-Asian (Arab/Berber) and a black minority (further in the south) since prehistoric times. So long before the first dynasties. Only the 25th dynasty is certified as black and came from Kush (the Theban dynasties may have been blacks as well but this is unconfirmed and they might have been darker than North egyptians but lighter than Kushites) while only the last dynasty was white and came from Macedonia.
For some scientific literature on the subject of the skin color(s) of the ancient Egyptians:
- Kathryn A. Bard, « Ancient Egyptians and the issue of race, dans M.R. Lefkowitz, G. MacLean-Rogers (éd.), Black Athena Revisited, Londres, 1996, 103-111.
- Frank J. Yurco, Were the Ancient Egyptians black or white?, Biblical Archaeology Review 15 (5), 1989, 24-29, 58.
- V. Schuenemann, A. Peltzer, B. Welte et al., Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods, Nature Communications 8 (15694), 2017.
- Brenna M. Henn, Laure R. Botigué, S. Gravel, Wei Wang, Abra Brisbin, Jake K. Byrnes, Karima Fadhlaoui-Zid, Pierre A. Zalloua, Andres Moreno-Estrada, Jaume Bertranpetit, Carlos D. Bustamante, David Comas, Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations, PLoS Genetics 8 (1), 2012.
- Béatrix Midant-Reynes, Yann Tristant (éd.), Egypt at its origins 2: Proceedings of the International Conference “Origin of the State. Predynastic and Early Dynastic Egypt”, Toulouse, France, 5th-8th September 2005, OLA 172, Louvain, 2008.
_Kemp, B. J., Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilisation, Routledge, 07 May 2007.
_Keita, S.O.Y., "Genetics, Egypt, and History: Interpreting Geographical Patterns of Y Chromosome Variation", American Journal of Physical Anthropology (1990).
_Keita, S.O.Y., "Early Nile Valley Farmers, From El-Badari, Aboriginals or 'European' Agro-Nostratic Immigrants? Craniometric Affinities Considered With Other Data", Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 36, No. 2, pp. 191-208 (2005).
_Keita, S.O.Y., "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships", History in Africa, 20: 129-154 (1993): The Origins of Afroasiatic, Ehret, Keita and Newman, Science (2004).
_Shriner, D. & Keita, S.O.Y. Migration route out of Africa unresolved by 225 Egyptian and Ethiopian whole genome sequences, 2016.
U left out the lady saying my grandma told me i dont care what they told u in school cleopatra was black.thats why people r trying to ban the show mostly .
I know, there was so much to include I missed reading that part and just had the words up!
@@nytn just watch the trailer u cant miss that part
💯. Surprised she didn't bring it up. It was the highlight of all this bullshit lol
@@nytn these dummies don't get the context. The lady said that because her grandma was educated or at least knew how much white people whitewashed history. From Pocahontas to European colonization to anti-Sinicism at the modern age. When they reconstructed King Tut as a Caucasian person by compensating his natural African prognanthism with an overbite, that took the cake! Cleopatra had almost a quarter Persian blood. One of her ancestors came from what is modern-day Uzbekistan/Afghanistan so she wouldn't have been completely Caucasian but this was just one ancestor who was Sogdian. One of the Ptolemies (Ptolemy V, Cleopatra's great-great-great grandfather who married this part-Persian Seleucid princess) was actually born to the King's mistress and not the Queen. Similar instances could have happened down the line but Cleopatra's father was actually not illegitimate as it has been proposed. His parents were rivals with their mother and because this Queen-mother chose her younger son who later replaced Cleopatra's grandfather and also became a friend and ally of Rome, his credibility was what made his heirs the real successor to the Ptolemaic throne.
People try to create a problem where there is none. Cleopatra wasn't black. Coins, statutes, paintings, descriptions by Romans and so on, make this perfectly clear. Had she been black, it would've been proof that she's born to a woman outside of the dynasty or the ruling (greek) class of Alexandria.
In that case the Romans, who disliked her with a passion, would've called her illegitimate and made it clear to let everyone and their dogs know about it.
The great degree of inbreeding in the Greco-Macedonian Ptolemaic dynasty is obvious when considering Cleopatra's immediate family. Her father was probably the uncle of Cleopatra's mother (the women in the family were named Cleopatra). There were three uncle/niece and three brother/sister relationships in her lineage (Cleopatra was married to her brothers) that went back to a single set of either great-grandparents or great-great-grandparents, In other words, a relatively small number of ancestors. Or fresh blood.
Cleopatras parents were brother and sister.
@@gamer4ever512 Not to mention, Cleopatra was also a name that was passed down to the females in the family. So, you gotta narrow down which Cleopatra you're referring to. Also, whatever happened to Cleopatra's tomb? What happened to Cleopatra's children that she had with Mark Anthony and Julius Cesar?
@@Neku628 Her tomb has not been found yet. Her son with Caesar was killed. Her children with Antony were taken back to rome and raised by Antony's ex wife and Octavian's sister Octavia. The two boys most like died young of some childhood illness. The girl was the only one to reach adulthood and she was married off to a king. I forgot which country but she did become a queen through marriage.
Yea true but they also found her sisters tomb in turkey and when doing DNA lab work saw that she had traces of other ethnic groups one of those groups was in Africa .
Conveniently we're supposed to ignore the fact that Greeks deplored incest. And culturally these marriages were sexless. And that clearly these names functioned as titles. And that the family tree is incomplete. And that there were multiple wives and concubines that are known that don't appear on the incomplete family tree. And that this family had no known birth defects. Tye 300 years that this Macedonian family lived in Africa which is important to say because culturally men and women had the same agency and the lines went through the mothers which led a why there is so much confusion in the diets place.
Plus we're to disregard the fact that were arguing about the purity of a bloodline of a lady with 3 husbands and 2 baby daddies both of whom had wives. A lady who was accused of the sexual appetite of a man. And this was normal in her family.
You're a with god and Beyoncé feeds you grapes what do you do? 99.9% of men make black babies and if your women and Michael b Jordan feeds you grapes you do the same thing and the you say he's the son of a god.
It's not definitive but objectively there's more evidence against her being of pure blood.
Maybe you don’t fully get the reason behind the outrage from most Egyptians , it’s not just that she was represented by a black actress by itself, that would have been fine with most like how many other ethnicities representing cleopatra were fine and attracted little outrage before.
The problem is with the Afrocentrist narrative that claims that modern Egyptians are invaders who colonized egypt from the blacks that built it and ruled it, then pretended to be Egyptian and stole black history , a movement that Jada is sympathetic to.
Average Egyptians have been on the receiving end of this kind of narrative for years now, and JPS has Afrocentrism tendencies. That’s why having a black cleopatra from such a producer within the climate of such a movement outraged Egyptians , and rightly so.
That’s why most Egyptians are annoyed by this, not for merely having a black actress as cleopatra.
If a black woman played cleopatra but there was no Afrocentric movement claiming modern non black Egyptians are invaders, this wouldn’t attract a fraction of a fraction of the current outrage and it would be just a small number of racists complaining instead of the big reaction you see from most Egyptians today.
There was one black dynasties that ruled Egypt, and many pyramid building dynasties in Sudan south of Egypt, if Jada chose that that would have been fine, it chose a trope commonly used by the afrocentrist movement that the ethnically Greek cleopatra and the many non black Egyptian rulers are fabrications by later invaders wanting to steal black history.
There are many incidents documented on RUclips from African American and African British tourists going to Egypt and calling the people there invaders or making such racist Afrocentric commentaries in front of Egyptian sights.
That’s where the problem lies for most egyptians.
Egypt was invaded by Arabs and they wiped out almost every Egyptian. I bet Egyptians aren't even 10% of Egyptian citizens. I don't understand how people get mad when the truth of colonisation is talked about
@@moreece1713you’re wrong and this has been proven again and again by DNA
Yet the afrocentrists wonder why egyptians hate them.
Black Americans are so racist and insecure about themselves, so they try to steal other ethnic cultures/history! They hate themselves so much they can’t OWN real blck American history of arriving to America in SHIPS being SOLD, again insecurity and delusion they can’t admit this happened! Like blck Americans think “it’s boring” “bad history” so they steal others to make themselves “look better”!
So in the year 4000 are we going to be saying Elon Musk was black, he is African, born in Pretoria?
With the way things are going that be 300 years
I always laugh when people get upset about calling him African!
They might be confused in a thousand years if his picture does not survive.
Facts
We all know white people have white washed history!! Please stop faking victimhood !!!😂😂😂
2:35 I don’t think you realize why people are angry. It’s not exactly a show as in a drama like game of thrones or a ancient mummy curse movie. It’s a documentary with historical facts, that’s the reason people are angry, it’s a documentary. They are really choosing their words wisely when they said “people shouldn’t get upset over the casting choices over a show” when they put it like that yea it’s stupid, the words they are using are manipulative. It’s not just a show, it’s a documentary they are twisting words
I agree with you, the authority of the genre matters. I also wonder just because someone calls it a documentary, but if it's NOT, is it?
Judging from the portraits and sculptures made of her during her lifetime, she wasn't black. Also, the portraits and sculptures of most pharoahs her preceeded her indicate that they weren't black either. There were black pharoahs of Egypt: the 25th dynasty who were Nubians (the Kushite empire) who ruled from 744 - 656 BCE, just under 100 years.
This would be like saying the Germanic Vandals were Black, because they had a kingdom in North Africa during Roman times
Hi Danielle. I've been subscribed since you were at 1k subs, now you're 10k plus - congrats! I'm glad of the direction that your channel has taken. It's not only about Lola (or your family) anymore, it's also about race & ethnicity - who's black, who's white, native, African, North African, Egyptian, etc. We need to talk about these things, as we are all humans. Congrats and more power to you!
Hi Danielle, According to facts, Cleopatra was Macedonian (Greek), and her ancestor was Ptolemy who was one of Alexander the Great's generals who took over Egypt after Alexander's death, and established the Ptolemic Dynasty. It's also facts that this dynasty practice incest as the ancient pharaohs to keep their ruling blood line pure. She was the only one in her line that learned and spoke Egyptian which help to make her popular with the Egyptian. The Ancient Egyptians of the Old, Middle, Kingdom were black as their southern neighbors Kush. Historically, Egypt started changing genetically when the Hittites, Nubian, Syrians, Greeks, (the Ptolemic Dynasty), Romans, and Arabs, conquerd and ruled Egypt at a certain time and assimilate sexually into the Modern Egyptians we know today. So to answer the question was Cleopatra black or white, her line was Mediterranean Greek.
I wish I had not cut out the part where I talked about Ptolemy. Thank you for mentioning that!
Kind of the most important part.
She was black!
Please don't include Nubians as outsiders, Nubians are Egyptians too, there were in Kemet (Egypt)
since ancient times, Egypt is also their land.
Wasn’t cleopatras mother and sister African? Her dad was Greek though.
i think hollywood in general should cast EGYPTIAN ACTORS to play ancient Egyptians....full stop
Only if they are Black Egyptian actors not the recessive Arabs of Albion’s who live there now……..nice try though ✊🏾
If the person in ancient egypt has roots in another part of the world, like the Greek Cleopatra, that doesn't make to much sense. Should Elon Musk, who was born in Africa, be portrayed by a black actor? Obviously not. And the same should work for Κλεοπάτρα.
Yes, Cleopatra was African (because Egypt is in Africa), but she was not black. I don't understand why a bunch of mostly African Americans (trapped in the narratives of Afrocentrism) are so confused by this, but not every part of Africa is populated by black people. I think there is no debate here! It is a well-known fact that she was Greek/Macedonian, with a little bit of Iranian, and that the Ptolemaic Dynasty was incestuous, so it is very unlikely that she will have even a bit of Egyptian blood (also, ancient Egyptians were not black, and the current Egyptian population is representative of this, they did not go away, if anything now they have more admixtures with black-Subsaharan people than before). So yes! She was African, as are the North Africans that do not look anything at all like the Sub-Saharan black populations. I think it is really bad because it is supposed to be a documentary, and it is as inaccurate as casting Liz Taylor. Why not cast a Greek/Macedonian actress?
This was well said and consistent with my informal research on the topic! I have been trying to, as an AA myself, understand why my community has this weird fixation on Egypt. Egypt was never a black territory. There are so many actual areas that are home to black people that could be explored, yet they chose to try to culturally apropriate MENA countries.
Funny I get mistaken as being Egyptian all the time but if I go by Jim Crow laws I’m black aka African American… Also, North African also have sun-Saharan DNA along with every country that conquered North Africa… North African are more of a mix race…
I agree that if there is GOING to be outrage from the Egyptians...they should be just as made about many other "Cleopatras" in film. I THINK Angelina Jolie played her once, too.
Americans are so confused. The USA does not consider the Spanish as Europeans but as Latinos yet the Portuguese are considered Europeans. Ignorance knows no bounds. When it comes to Geography the US gets an abysmal 'F'
The africans hopped unto boats and literally sailed down the nile by assists from gravity. Mother nature insurgently and inconspicuously displaced them to the east and west with the sahara's desertification. Africans of many stripes, all hued, ended up on the nile value by luck and word of mouth of the life giving, reliable river. They stayed, built, innovated and thrived until they conquered by foreigners the last of whom sought (and did) make slaves of some of them and continue to undermine their humanity to this day.
I like the video and the thoughtful exploration. I am not sure about the race or skin color of Cleopatra. I think the problem with trying to figure out what someone was in ancient times( race wise) is a challenge because it is not a thing then. I also think people sometimes conflate the beginning of the Egyptian dynasties to the end. The first dynasties were closely tied to Kush and they both were indigenous to Africa. So by today's classifications, those Egyptians would be consider to be black. Those two civilizations traded together, married, fought etc. Later people from SW Asia came and integrated with Egyptians. Later people from Persia and Assyria came and conquered Egypt. Certainly, there was integration after the Pharaohs regained power so you have a cultural mix. I feel like Egypt is an example of a place that people of many cultures and skin tones influenced not just one group.
not true. it is proven that after the ice age and in the wake of agricultural revolution, egypt first was inhabited by farmers who migrated from the levant and mesopotamia (middle east).these people later unified egypt and stated the first dynasty. they spoke semitic language, which originated in levant. even dna test done on ancient egyptians mummies revealed they are more closely related to the people of the ancient near east (middle east). the kushites you mention were at modern day sudan and ethiopia, where nile originates. they had their own empire.
also, getting conquered by persia and assyria doesn't mean their dna changed to persians and assyrians. many empires conquered egypt, but they didn't slaughter the egyptians. and they also didn't mass migrate to egypt. egypt always had a huge population due to its large agricultural output. no empires who conquered egypt were big enough in population to replace the native egyptians. modern egyptians are not ethnically arab, they are only culturally arab. the arab empire were not numerically large enough to even replace 1/4th of egypt's native population. modern dna testing shows that the average egyptians only has about 9% arab dna in them, the rest are native egyptian dna.
@mishterkhalid3117 Hey there. cite a source pls. I have never heard this re: movement after the ice age from Levant. Christopher Ehret a scholar and the Boston Museum of Fine Arts differ with you that indigenous Africans were not very present in Ancient Egypt.
@@mishterkhalid3117 this study was not done well. Read it for yourself. They tested 3 mummies only one gave viable sample. Plus the area was an area known to be inhabited by foreigners and only covers the late period.
@@mishterkhalid3117 best refute of this study 📖 be heard ruclips.net/user/liveS_DD4nmyoss?si=A9AmGC16GYLRLmnU
Jada poorly invested her money and unwisely chose her daugher's "african" queen. She would have done better to go further back into eqyptian antiquity for that - queen Tiye, Nefertiti or the one that fought against the romans from nubia. They would only have Hawass as the only prominent idiot railing against such a film. But Jada, true to being controversial, dropped the ball.
This apparently is a series and I did watch a bit of her "Njinga" documentary, hoping to learn something. But honestly? It was very over-idealised "African" and smacked so much of that scene in Roots where OJ Simpson is the dad, and chases after Kunta... everything in Africa portrayed as gorgeous and lovely, but OJ is stiffly acting the entire part except for the chase scene? It felt awkward like that. (Roots on the whole - excellent - but there were a few scenes that were poorly done/ historically inaccurate.) I couldn't watch all of "Njinga" and given how badly it was done, I think Jada Smith may have (allegedly lol) bribed or begged someone to cause this "controversy" so people will watch her series!!! Terrible stuff.
@@JaneAtwellRobinson1825NY yeah, using egypt to further clout chase.
@@2008topshelf allegedly lol yep
The big controversy is not the series itself, the problem most are having is in the word "Documentary". It is not factual that she was black, it should be listed as fiction, then I think most would not care really, and just would not watch it...
I bailed on Netflix a longggg time ago so I wont be able to see it either!
The painting of Cleopatra in the14 th century Occiton Manuscript British library says she's black .It was painted600 year's ago by Europeans
When claiming something is a documentary, you need to have factual proof, not a Hollywood vision that may or may not have been accurate. Now when James Cameron did Titanic he said was a documentary/ fiction movie. Most of the story was accurate except Rose and Jack and the old lady and the necklace. He admitted they were fictional but everything else about the sinking was accurate.
Jada took liberties with history to give it a Hollywood twist and in the process minimized the actual history of the Egyptians. I do believe they weren’t any happier with Liz Taylor as Cleopatra. If I remember correctly they thought she was much too old to play Cleopatra. I thought I read that somewhere once or maybe a Liz Taylor documentary. But I don’t think they sued her over it.
And there are many artifacts such as coins, sculptures, and paintings, showing that she was white, dating back to the 1st century ce.
Do I know? Cubans were against Fidel Castro being played by a white actor even though the movie wasn't a documentary and they somehow won the debate. That is why I don't watch Netflix. Coz it hates white people and doesn't produce movies with inteligent story.
When Persian people criticised the 300 Move not just for using black people as Persians but also for distortion of Iranian history and culture in so many ways we get accused of being racist, being narcissistic, having inferiority complex and received all kinds of craps but here the story continues this time for Egypt and I can't wait to see which country going to be the next, until people understand all nations should be respected in the way they are and not the entire world circle arounds one especial race or country
I have always thought of Cleopatra as a reddish brown, Egyptian woman of color with Black hair. The Blond Greek concept is completely new to me, never heard of it before. The Europeans depicted Cleopatra as a very pale skin woman with Red hair and say that her looks can be verified by some coins that exist which of course could be a depiction of anyone and the idea that the Ptolomy family tree was completely and entirely derived from incestuous relationships. This again is something that is questionable to say the least. Certainly there may have been a great deal of incest in the family, but entirely? No one had relations with any person outside of the family for 300 years? Really? What is intriguing to me also is the fact that they take great pains to state that the Greeks and the Romans kept meticulous records of the Ptolomy dynasty family tree, except for Cleopatra's grandmother, who they say might have been a concubine and her mother, which for some reason no one has any knowledge of. Given this information, logically, there is a possibility that she could have been Black or at least have Black blood, which according to the "one drop" rule, would in the eyes of America, make her a Black woman. There is also the point that while some Egyptians seek to deny their Black African lineage, Southern Egypt was populated by indigenous Black Sudanese, called even today, Nubians. So again, there is the possibility that her Grandmother was a Nubian and her mother was an Egyptian or even Nubian herself. It is no surprise that Dr. Zahi Hawass is claiming that Cleopatra was Greek and had Blond hair, even though she was born in Africa and her mother's ethnicity is unknown. He is completely indoctrinated with a Eurocentric view and has many times previously been found to make inaccurate statements to support the European narrative when it comes to the Black African lineage of Egyptians, even when confronted with the facts. No Egyptian depiction of Cleopatra shows her as a pale skin or yt person. It is my contention that if anyone is trying to conceal facts or promote a false narrative, it is the Europeans since they cave compiled such a detailed back story of her, yet conveniently have no real knowledge of her Grandmother and mother. This tells me that at some point they lost track of what was going on with the family tree or they are hiding the truth because it is inconvenient. Fun fact, (" in 2009 the BBC reported that scientists were surprised to learn that Cleopatra’s blood sister, Arsinoe, had an African mother. ")
Christ , you dont need War and Peace part one to explain , I've never seen a blond haired blue eyed Egyptian , our boss in work years ago was half Egyptian, he was what I'd say Woggy , a good splash of the tarbrush , i dont know if youre familar with the term.
It's a debate over how much tarbrush she was exposed to , either a lot if she was Nig Nog , or a little bit less if she was a Wog .
In either case Light Skinned means nothing , it depends what she was compared with , light compared to Africans , dark compared to proper Whites as in Northern Europeans , ie light hair , blue eyes.
Nope sorry .. she was Greek
Exactly!!!!!!
@@SexyBeautifulBabe You say that as a way to try to insinuate she was white. Yes, she was Greek but that doesn't mean she was white.
In 1000 years from now people like you will say "Giannis Antentkumpou wasn't black, he was Greek!"
These things are nothing new. She was what would describe today as black or mixed
@@victory7763 she was white .. get over it
I'm Egyptian, A COPTIC CHRISTIAN EGYPTIAN.
I shout that out loud because we are the most pure blooded Egyptians out there and that's not only my opinion that's what Egyptologists, Historians and Scientists also agreed on,
and I tell you that every word that Bassem Youssef said is right and I totally agree with him.
Yes Egypt had lots of mixed cultures throughout its history like for example: Assyrians, Greeks, Romans and Arabs, but the Egyptian blood didn't mix and change that much and that's because for centuries we Egyptians had a golden tradition rule to marry our cousins, and that tradition is still present until now especially in Upper Egypt(from Assiut to Aswan), Although that tradition seems silly and bad from a scientific biological point of view, but that doesn't matter, silly or not we kept that tradition of marrying our cousins for centuries and that helped us to preserve our pure Egyptian blood not mixed as long as we could, and the result is what you see now and that is Modern Egyptians looks typical to their Ancient Egyptian Ancestors, just look at my skin color and Bassem Youssef's skin color we are almost the same although he is a Muslim who was born and lived in Cairo and I am a Coptic Christian who was born and lived in Luxor and there is almost a 1000 km distance between us, doesn't that tell you a thing or two about who Ancient Egyptians were and what they looked like?
With all due respect for all the Black people and all the other ethnicities out there, but we Egyptians are special very special, WE ARE NOT Black or White or Yellow, Not Europeans or Africans or Asians, Not Assyrians or Persians or Israelites or Nubians or Greeks or Romans or Arabs or French or Italians or Germans or British or Turkish or Ukrainians, Not Middle Easterners or Caucasians or Mediterraneans or Levants or Amazigh or Berbers or even North Africans.
WE ARE
EGYPTIANS,
WE ARE
VERY UNIQUE!
Cleopatra was Greek.
And yes Egyptians aren't invaders. Modern day Egyptians are the descendants of ancient Egyptiansa and anyone saying otherwise is racist. Point blank.
With as much racial mixing all over the world as there has been over the eons, I find it hard to believe that Egyptians are as genetically distinct as you’re stating. I find it especially difficult to swallow for a nation as monumental in its historical importance as Egypt. Much of the history that was published indicates different racial groups living there from far regions of the known world at that time. So to say that Egyptians only bred with their own group and most often did so with blood relatives, I’m not buying it. It doesn’t even seem genetically healthy to continually marry cousins and produce healthy children. I just really beg to differ.
Maybe I’m ignorant, but I thought that Cleopatra was of at least partial Greek heritage. Also, I was also made aware that the so-called Nubians had ruled Egypt for a while as well. But you’re insisting that Egyptians are an ethnically distinct and pretty much genetically pure group? How??? As far as I’m concerned, this backlash against black Cleopatra has got the usual pathological racial bias against black people that has been spread all over the world. Just tells me that it’s better to be labeled anybody but black…..I haven’t noticed the level of backlash against white people playing these roles since movies began. And no, I haven’t watched the series yet, but perhaps I will just to see what the buzz is all about.
Yes you are mixed blood and ancient Egyptians were BLACK dark skinned people not the ones you see today from colonization and invasion.
@@brandillysmomhe or she is full of shit saying modern Egyptians are of pure blood. Pure lies is more like it
It''s most common to think of everyone as TV and Movies have portrayed them. I read that there were many Cleopatras in real life. Since white actors have portrayed black people many times without outrage, why not vise-versa?
True!
Cleopatra being portrayed as a White woman is accurate. This is a documentary which should follow facts.
What white actors have portrayed black people. ???
@@blackcommunion3820 Was that meant to be sarcastic?Ever Heard of "BLACKFACE"?
I'll share 4 and you can google the countless other incedents...
Film: "Elizabeth, Michael and Marlon" (2016) Joseph Fiennes Played Michael Jackson
Film: "The 33" (2015) Juliette Binoche as Maria Segovia
Laurence Olivier as Othello 1965
The Birth of a Nation was released in 1915
who the fuck came up the idea that "actually cleopatra ethinicity is highly debated " it is a sentence that a person come up with before making some shit up historically
I'm confused with Netflix
Cleopatra was part of the Talmaic Dynasty, who wasn't indigenous to Acient Egypt. they were the invaders / colonisers . so how can you have an indigenous person to the continent playing that part. it's like the whites in America & Australia played by a native
The problem here is that North Africa is very close to southern Europe and it is likely that the genome of North Africans is closer to those of southern Europe than Sub-Saharan Africa. That being said one must acknowledge that those born on the continent of Africa are not all racially Negroid. In fact on the US census if born in North Africa you are to identify as Caucasian. Some don't feel this is accurate but at the same time one could argue that southern Italians should not be classified as Caucasian. Born in Africa does not equate automatically with being black. There has been a push by Afro centrist to portray the founders of the great Egyptian Civilization as sub-Saharan African and he is reacting in general to this effort. The problem is that the reaction is so ferocious and in reality the Mediterranean people (including North Africans) are a mixed race as is the actress. It is this aspect that is inappropriate on the Egyptian side. The reaction however is to more than just the actress but to a general push to portray the builders of the great pyramids as Sub-Saharan for political "wokeness" .
Please actually do real research . Yea Egypt land is in proximity to europ but if you actually read their own words and study their culture and track their DNA . They came from South Africa upwards . The majority of the old kingdom and middle kingdoms empires were in southern Egypt not near the coast of Egypt because the Nile flows backwards . In other words they were not a costal people . Also they share many many many Dna ,cultural and linguistic Traits with what we would call modern day Sudan . Not only that they literally said their ancestors came from the beginning of the Nile river. Guess what the Nile river flows from tow parts of Southern Africa . I will take the words from the actual people of that time any day over a modern day Egyptologist with a agenda or biased based on modern times .
Thank you for your video. As a student of history, I noticed that many people speak on the identity of the Egyptians based on the population you see today in Egypt, which in a sense is true. They are the current Egyptians, but if you want to know who the ancient Egyptian were, you don’t have to guess. They told you who they were by the art on the temple and pyramid walls. Look at the sculpture of the oldest Pharoahs, and look at the head of the Sphinx. They told you who they were because they knew this day would come.
If you know HOW much the Greeks stole you will know more about Egypt.
The old Egyptian kingdom were darker skinned more phenotypically african people only because it was "pre conquered" Egypt.
I always thought Cleopatra was mixed race due to being apart of the Ptolemys. Current Egyptians are children of the colonialist. Arabs, greek admixture over thousands of years. And they are also colorist who think they are superior to sub saharan africans. . But over the years Egyptian culture that has been conquered are now whitewashed due to colonialism. People want to keep egypt white because of those damn pyramids. Lol. But the ancestors of the modern day Egyptians did NOT build those things. The ANCIENT egyptians were the literal children of subsuharan nubians.
lol
They are African black. The oldest mummy is black
@@t.nelson9345 i know. it was from wakanda.
EXCELLENT!!!
Also the greeks conquered Egypt first. The greeks called them ethiopians which was the blanketed name for africans. Now if the greeks has to conquer them and the arabs werent occupying them yet, where did these ORIGINAL ehyptians come from. They are the children of subsuharan africans. If you look at their ancient relations with Kush you will see the similarities. Also eypt was trading with the southern europeans so there was race mixing there but full white with "blacks"neighboring them in the south uh. No. Not the ancients.
Evidence?
:crickets:
It's my understanding that she was of Greek and possibly Iranian decent, yet born in Africa.
Great video, as always!
@Berserker Iran literally means Aryan though.
She was totally greek Macedonian from ptolemeus family never have to do something with Iran
@kinegiros That's Not quite clear,because During Alexander's Great's lifetime All Macedonian generals were ordered to take Persian wives,they Even had a mass ceremony, Ptolemy may of been one of these commanders,Alexander did this to create a ruling elite caste ,who would rule the territories of his empire after his death,thus meaning Cleopatra may have had some Persian ancestry,but I agree She was definitely Mostly Greek Macedonian..
@@peterroberts7684 All historical records indicate that she belonged to the Ptolemaic dynasty, which was primarily of Greek and Macedonian origin. She was highly inbred and had intermarriage within the Ptolemaic family which was well-documented. And this inbreeding was with all of her white relatives. Nothing to do with any mixed-race heritage.
There is no concrete evidence whatsoever that she had any "mixed race/Persian" DNA other than speculation of a relative who was not Macedonian. It would be like some white dude saying he is 1/32nd Cherokee and looks absolutely nothing like any Cherokee.
@@kinegiros So you know better than the ancient written sources? How so?
The Cleopatra we are talking about is Cleopatra VII. Her ancestor Cleopatra I was from the Seleucid empire and merried to Egypt (Ptolemy V) for political reasons, trying to bring peace to the hostile empires (didn't work). That alone doesn't make her Iranian, as the Seleucids are, like the Ptolemies, Macedonian, but the Grandfather of this Cleopatra I was King Mithridates II of Pontus, a Persian. The daughter of this Mithridates, Laodice, merried Seleucid King Antiochus III, these are the parents of Cleopatra I.
As far as I understand, Cleopatra was Egyptian but not black. She was African because Egypt is in Africa. But if black means having dark skin, Cleopatra probably wasn't black.
As many people have said, she had Greek ancestry. I think the problem people are having is if she had partial sub-Saharan ancestry. She was African, as Egypt is in Africa. The Egyptians historically have always depicted themselves and the sub-Saharan Africans they encountered as differently though. They would paint themselves as a reddish skinned, which could be interpreted as brown or olive complected. Historically, there were some Pharaohs from the south that were of African ancestry, but they were long long before Cleopatra’s time. The other thing is that if she was from Alexandria, well, that was a very Greek city. If her mother was from there, she more than likely was also Greek, or at least had mixed Greek and Egyptian heritage. So knowing that, it’s doubtful that she was sub-Saharan in appearance and probably looked heavily what we would today consider as Mediterranean.It’s doubtful she was blond and fair skinned. She was most likely at best olive complected.
I understand wanting to make her sub-Saharan African in appearance. Representation is important. Seeing yourself in media is important. Lying about it is not helpful though because in the end it is not true. Just like the people that want her to be an "African queen" want to be seen, the Egyptians want to be seen too though. Egyptians still exist. They have changed over time, but you probably see the same faces there as you saw thousands of years ago. Cheating them out of their own history by changing her appearance, to please a group of American activists in Hollywood is wrong. There are numerous historical images of Egyptians from her time. They look a lot like Egyptians do today. In all fairness, I’d default to that. It may not be perfect, but it will be closer to the truth. All that said, she’s an actress playing a role. Unless they are pushing the sub-Saharan part, why is it any different than Elizabeth Taylor, a white woman, playing the part?
Great point about Elizabeth Taylor!
Cleo was Macedonian Greek thru and thru, as Ptolemy and descendants imported brides and did mix with the. local Egyptians or anyone else.
When have you ever seen an African tribe have a white queen? Never! This story just sounds made up. No African tribe would ever do that. I descend from both and no. I just think the Greeks wanted so bad to be Egyptian they stole this story and injected themselves into Egyptian history. All Greek mythology was stolen from Kemet.
@@jeannerogers7085 Scientist say she was mixed race with black ancestry. No African tribes would ever have a white queen. Greeks stole their mythology from Egypt I don't believe nothing they say.
I can see you know nothing about Egyptian history. First off, the original inhabitants of that land were Africans. From the founding, the place was called Kemet. Present day occupiers if the land came there around 625 a.d and before them other invaders. I don't know what monuments you're describing to depict ancient Kemet, but nearly all the ones that exist depict them with very distinctive african features.
Actually, the mere fact that Jada Pinkett-Smith is behind this, I surely will NOT watch. She has RUINED my man Will Smith, and has caused him too much pain. But I was taught that Cleopatra was of Macedonian descent. That would make her Greek looking in appearance. But it is possible that there was Egyptian in her bloodline too, which would give more of an Arab look as well as the Greek look.
This s a nice video. I have tutored college-level history, and so I have studied this period (the classical era). I do not have much interest personally in Egypt though. I read an amazing biographical historical fiction years ago about Cleopatra. It taught me a lot. You are spon on when you said that her dad's side is well known and unquestionably Greek. BUT yes, the maternal lineage gets questionably. Her mother likely was either fully egyptian or part, because Cleopatra was known to be one of the few in her entourage who spoke Egyptian. However, I always tell people that African does NOT equal black. That's an important takeaway from your video. Ancient or indigenous Africans were likely of a darker complexion, but genetic studies indicate that they were genetically close to caucasians. Another takeway, dark skin does NOT equal black. Regardless, since her dad was 100% white (despite this in argument of the article author you cited- I would hold does NOT mean necessarily that he nor cleopatra was BLOND), she probably was not dark in complexion. The actress, I learned from you, is of mixed ancestry. So, I mean... I guess that's not too bad of a choice. right? If cleopatra was mixed and the actress is mixed...close enough? I still do feel like Jada Smith picking someone to represent "black queen" kinda their actress choice inapropriate. Cleopatra is NOT a black queen and trying to pass her off as one does a DISSERVICE to the many BLACK queens that have existed throughout history.
the Roman depiction of her was quite pale with fair hair
i agree there are other egyptian queens and pharoahs that could of have their story told. especially if jada wanted to show representation for her daughter. Hatshepsut has a wonderful story of ruling as a pharoah despite it being abnormal in that time and ended up creating prosperity for egypt. I dont know i feel like instead of forcing a queen to be black for the sake of representation is just as bad as white washing a black story. why not choose real representation and the stories we have never heard of.
Those genetic studies show that Egypt was conquered and not the original Egyptians. Especially if the were close to caucasians. The murals tell the story.
The painting from the14 the Century Occiton Manuscript British Library has her as what European people say is black.This was painted600 years ago
I find much of your comment logical and correct except even though her complextion may not have been black,she most likely belonged to the black race.based on evidence we DO have.
It’s crazy that when they portray Egyptians as white in old Hollywood no one argues that but does this it’s crazy but Egypt is what it is a place of many tones and faces
The old Hollywood movies are fictional The Netflix show claims to be a documentary. See the difference here?
From what I have read, Cleopatra's family was of Greek origin but they had lived in Egypt for 400 years; some mixing with Egyptians was likely. Egyptians are mostly North African but many do appear to have significant Sub-Saharan ancestry. There is a Roman burial ground in Turkey and Cleopatra's sister may be buried there (a long back story and I can't remember the details); the burial grounds are for the most part only for very important people (generals, royals etc). The grave/temple has ancient Egyptian symbols on it; the remains in the vault are mixed white/black ancestry.
It was well known that the members of the Hellenistic (Greek) Royal families married their close relatives in order to keep pure the royal bloodline. A mixed child would be outside of a marriage, it would live in the shadows of the Palace and it would never sit on the Throne of any Hellenistic Kingdom since for the ancient Greeks "all non-Greeks considered as barbarians".
Sorry, but you are wrong. The Ptolemy’s married with other Greek Houses. The Seleucid’s, the Macedonians. They were also known to marry brother and sister. There was some Persian ancestry from Cleopatras great great grandmother. They didn’t even speak the language. They spoke Greek. The Ptolemaic dynasty did everything they could to separate themselves from the people they ruled. Incorporating Greek philosophy and architecture. They were buried in Greek style tombs. Cleopatra was as black as Jesus was white.
Egyptians are not North Africa, there is no such thing in taxonomy called "North African" not for humans any way.
Egypt's population today is Arabid which is derived from the Armenoid Caucasian type settling in the Middle East millennia ago.
Ancient Egyptians were Ethiopid a classification for Africans of Hamitic type.
@@Userkaf_II "settling in the Middle East millennia ago"
dude the same people live in that region for 40 000 years
your people are not even 7 000 years old
Even ancestors of Indo Europeans did come to live in that region 10 000 years ago ---3 000 years before you have even been made
@Brad Gerber Anatolians (ancestors of Indo Europeans) and Natufians did live together in many regions as if they are one
Natufians are in essence Egyptians and Greeks are the product of that "living together "
They came to Europe around 6-8 000 years ago
And no ,they didn't have your dna ..we would know it through the testing of any European
And yes Greeks did never stop having contacts with Egyptians or Natufian regions
Even the name philistine originated from the Greeks and one of their expeditions 4000 years ago
The Cleopatras were of the Ptolemaic Egyptian Greek aristocracy.
The main point of confusion is the misunderstanding that Egyptians and Kemites are one and the same. They are not!
The focus always seems to be on the so-called Egyptians of the Ptolemaic period who changed the name of the region and the Neteru of Kemetic folklore around 325BCE. If the European established Kemet (A Bantu word), why would they have to change the name?
Today there's more of a cosmopolitan mixture of Roman, Greek and the "Johnny come lately" Arabs (approx. 600CE) who are claiming to be Egyptians, and they're right. None of them are of Kemet.
The temples and pyramids were already built when the Greeks invaded. As a matter of fact there are more pyramids in Nubia than in the Nile valley. Where are the pyramids of Europe?
I know I went in a little too deep but I had to get this perspective out. Ancient history is a hobby of mine and I've been at it with passion for at least 20 years. If you need receipts on what I've posted, I have sources.
I appreciated this! I am diving into something unfamiliar to me (I focus on US history in the South mostly) so I am learning in public.
To me, Cleopatra was of Greek origin, no doubt. That doesn't mean that the Egyptian people wasn't of dark skin. To me, they did have a darker skin, akin to the Middle Eastern peoples, and some paintings do show them as having a reddish skin tone, in comparison of lighter Europeans and darker Nubians. Looks like there was a dynasty of black pharaohs as well. But to me, they were neither black nor white: they were like Middle Eastern people.
BTW, one thing that bothers me is that they always focus on just a few important female characters and make them black, while there's so much important characters that went overlooked. Amanirenas was a one-eyed black Nubian queen, who led military campaigns against Egypt. Amanitore built great wonders of the Nubian kingdom, such as temples and pyramids. Further south, we have Ana Nzinga, the "Mother of Angola", one remarkable people who fought against European invaders.
Important to remember that race is a false European construct. Africans identifying by race, in my personal experience, is quite recent. I have had many friends and neighbors from all parts of Africa and the concept of race has always come up. As one man once told me, "People in Africa have varied skintones, but they are no less black."
@@panamasrose Franz Boas and Ruth Benedict ..people that stand behind the rejections of breeds have been Shasu of YHWH and they did have their own goals ..same people did write things like this
"Slavs, ...are the most rebellious people in the world.........can be destroyed, but never conquered. That is why this seed is subject to elimination, and at first - to a sharp reduction in its number."
For not knowing breeds that folks did speak alot about breeding
@@panamasrose oldest fossil of South Africa is Hofmeyr skull
put that fossil between a west african and a European ...how long will you need to decide to who he is related
( hint ancestors of Hofmeyr did never leave africa)
for breeds don't existing we are a bit too capable to define them
@@panamasrose youre an actual imbecil lololol
Personally I'll look more towards Africans for any African history rather than towards African-Americans.
African but not black.
Im sorry, but there is no uncertainty about Cleopatra's mother. The mother of Cleopatra VII was Cleopatra VI Tryphaena. It is very well documented. Also there is no way on planet Earth that one of the Ptolemy's would have had offspring with someone outside the Macedonian lineages, they were very racist and simply would not have done so.
I don't have an opinion, just wanted to say that to post the most interesting discussions. Thank you for sharing! ❤
Lisa, that was so nice, thank you! Honestly, until I started looking into my family ancestry I had no idea how complex things could get, lots of emotions.
@@nytn Egypt had Nilo-Saharan and Nubian people up until 8th century before the Arab conquest. Even one of the former Queen's Hatshepsut of the Fifth dynasty. Egypt was linked to Nubian / Kush and Punt which is where Hatshepsut came from. Most people see Egypt as black West African but has also been mainly North East African up to what is the current day Somalia.
It is presumed that Egyptian language is linked closer to Semitic but it has very close genetic ( paternal haplogroup E-M78 being the main Egyptian paternal lineage which is what more related to the current day North East African genetic descendants ) and linguistic closeness to Cushitic languages. One close word to look at is the word Ra which was an Egyptian which is now used as the prefix and suffix in Cushitic language. The word Qorraxdu / Qurrax being the sun or Breakfast being Quraac (this being from the Somali language). The Sun God was at its high of worship during the 5th dynasty of Queen Hatshepsut.
Lastly the religious practice of circumcisions. Most Egyptian women are circumcised in the first or second degrees. The practice probably originated in Pharaonic Egypt, in which it was invested with mythological significance. This is also practiced till this day in most North East African countries that had links to Egypt.
So to conclude Egypt, has always been linked to the region around it but have been historically separated after the 8th century after Arabic took over. Before it was the slow language change and the elites being the new conquering groups like Alexandria having lot of Southern European influence. The Persian during their reign and later with the Turks and their Slavic slaves ( which is where we got the word Slave from). The people being lighter as they are more Northern than the Sub-Saharan people by a few shades but the history is linked to its region, North East Africa.
Sorry for the rant.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68
wayback.archive-it.org/all/20171010093322/academic.oup.com/mbe/article/24/6/1300/984002/Tracing-Past-Human-Male-Movements-in-Northern#77759287
- E-M78 dna links.
@@nytn See how Iman and Neferti look a like.
I always wondered about this myself. I have heard that America is the Old Egypt (Ta'meri/Tamerikaans). Ancestry DNA test are only for entertainment because it shows you where people with similar DNA qualities reside present day. They have refused to allow DNA testing on any mummies extracted from the tombs that they have found. Why is that I wonder?
Cleopatra was Macedonian Greek, with some Persian ancestry. Save the argument for earlier Egyptian queens who better fit the criteria.
Africa and black are not synonymous. Ancient Egyptians were not all black either. That is clear from ancient Egyptian artefacts. Black people did exist there but it is unlikely they were the ruling class. They were a Mediterranean culture and it is important to understand that they themselves would not have thought in terms of being African, it really wasn’t a thing back then. Were they dark skinned? Well that depends upon what you think of as dark skinned now, in the 21st century! It is our construct not theirs. Mostly too it is a construct based around what American people think, and then reverberated around the world. And no matter what you believe about Cleopatra your views on this, unless you are Egyptian, are very subjective. I was brought up with multiple images of the past, especially Middle Eastern and North African biblical images as being hugely whitewashed, both in Traditional European depictions of the bible and more recent depictions in the movies and other forms of image making. I ALWAYS knew that Cleopatra as depicted in the movies ( Liz Taylor) was not accurate or factual, and I was around when it was released. So I was never under any illusions that she was white. At the time Greeks were not considered white either! So what we have left are contemporary images of her to go on, and those do not appear to depict her as black. My guess is she was neither, but like Mediterranean people have been for as long as people have depicted them that she was a shade of indeterminate non-white that we call brown! I can absolutely understand Egyptians being aggravated by this, it is a white world argument that is going on, even when conducted by black people, because not everywhere in the world has this binary division. In fact there are places where you can go where colour is not political and where whatever people actually are is accepted, no matter there skin tone. Mostly these are not places with this binary legacy of a mess. Do I think it is ok for any character from the past to be portrayed by a black person? Well yes, why not. Just don’t politicise is or make it about fact. It is as valid in terms of ACTING as a white Cleopatra. It is when you insist that either represents the REALITY of the past accurately. We cannot even trust DNA tests fully in this respect as they are mainly done by companies that set phenotypes and dna according to some odd biases, because of how they classify the world and the past. It would be interesting to see what would be the results of Egyptian dna tests and data gathering done with modern Egyptian biases! I mean how much closer to reality would that get us? As people who have used the well known companies know the interpretation of data can change massively over time. Anyway I think the whitewashing of the past is not in doubt. We know it occurred. However is it necessary to be that kind of rigid when we look at ‘not whiteness’? Humans exist in a spectrum what is so difficult about accepting that? I think that would be a better thing to pass to the future than compounding the problem. Maybe then it would cease to be problematic. So many modern issues tied up in all of this, and really does a Netflix interpretation dictate reality? Or determine our own sense of self based on its depictions of the past? Or can we pass on pride in our being without going through the movies. How about cultivating strong self imagining of each child’s being and worth without reliance on skin as a mediator? There are literally billions of humans who are neither white nor black, who do not want to be seen as either, or to have their ancestors regarded as either. Do they have a voice in this! I think the Egyptian outcry is about this. The POV of the plurality of Africa, and the diversity of it’s history. And let’s not forget language either…… kings and queens are the uppermost tip of a pyramid in which there is no representation of the vast majority of humans, do we really want to model the future on that and everything it represents? We focus on the Pharaohs and rulers of ancient Egypt but in reality the art of that time shows depictions of people in all sorts of professions and occultations, at work, at leaure and play, as all sorts of human, maybe the focus would be more interesting if those people were reimagined. Not the tiny few who lived in unimaginable luxury.
Hell yes Cleopatra was African! My mamma said so & I believe it! She had plates in her mouth, bones through her nose, and lowrider boobs. ❤️🙏
No she wasn't African. She was greek-mecadonian
Bulak ancient aliens 🤦
Egypt is a country, Africa is a continent. Egypt is in Africa, isn't it? So yes, Cleopatra was African as well as Egyptian.
Hi! I recently found your channel, and love the content. As far as the Egyptian backlash, this is NOT the first time. Basically, it boils down to anti-Black sentiment on their part. The most famous Egyptian president of the 20th century, Anwar Sadat (1970-81) was a BLACK Egyptian of Nubian descent. After he was assassinated, Hollywood made a movie about his life, starring Lou Gossett Jr., a well-known African American actor in the 80s. The same Egyptian press and government officials were livid that a Black man was portraying Sadat, who was another Black man!! They banned the film (1984) and boycotted Columbia Pictures. This just shows how bigoted their power structure is. Lou Gossett Jr looked almost identical to Sadat!! All of this info can be Googled. When I was visiting Dubai in 2017, people assumed I was Black Arab or "something". I met several Egyptians and they were all Black, and darker than I am. They immediately called me "brother" and said I should visit Egypt some day. Most contemporary Egyptians are not Black, but enough are. In Cleopatra VII 's reign, Egypt was much more diverse, and hadn't yet experienced half of its invasions. Many more people were Black or Brown. If her sister Arsinoe IV was mixed race (it's documented), why wouldn't Cleopatra VII be mixed as well.... especially since no one knows for sure who her mother was??
the evidence shows Cleopatra was black ancestry
Cleopatra was Greek
Danielle, this is a hot topic and you have handled it with your usual flair. In recent years, it has come to my attention that what actually happened does not always match what is reported AFTER the event. I approach written content with caution because of that. Statues or other tangible representations of people and/or events hold more weight for me since it is difficult (but not impossible) to alter objects that are out there in the public domain. The texture of the hair in the bust that was shown in this video appears to be kinky, but I am sure that both sides of this argument can explain that to support their personal beliefs. 😉
I love how your channel is a place where conversations of race, identity, DNA, etc. can be discussed. Thank you for keeping us thinking and questioning everything. ❤
your sweet personality shines even when discussing some of the prickly topics! I noticed the hair on that bust as well.
Danielle, you are too kind. Thank you for the compliment. I like that term - “prickly topics”. 😉
Cleopatra was an inbred Greek and would not have looked like local Egyptians. It would be like saying a the daughter of a British governor, born in 1800s India would look Indian just because she happen to be born there. The debate over the color of the average ancient Egyptian is separate topic from this.
I find your videos interesting and I respect your perspective I think it is insightful . Now in regards to Cleopatra first she was a Greek woman with a little African ancestry remember she was part of the Ptomely dynasty which was created when Alexander the Great died his general Ptomely took over Egypt .Furthermore Cleopatra wasn’t really an Egyptian , Egypt at this time was not the Egypt of the Pharaohs the real Egyptians who built the Sphinx , The pyramids , the Egyptians mystery school containing the secrets of science and astrology the Egypt of builders so scientifically advanced engineers today can’t figure out how they built pyramids and monuments . She has no connection or lineage to Imhotep , Akhenaten, Djoser, Menes , Nefeteri it’s like saying the Spanish conquistadors built the Aztec pyramids . She was just part of the colonizers who usurped the real Egyptians just like the Arabs who occupy Egypt now, they have nothing to do with ancient Egypt they came to Egypt when Islam was spread and yes there were some here before like the Hyksos but they were considered foreigners to the actual Egyptians and were expelled after 80 years . In fact the word Egypt is a Greek word the actual land is called Kemit and not Egypt . The Greeks lived 2000 years after the Egyptians and much of what we are told about “Egypt” comes through this perspective .When you go to Egypt and your go on a “tour” of the famous sites you only learn the perspective of the current rulers of this land . Cleopatra is no women to be proud of there are many many other actual real Egyptian queens starting with Nefeteri to make movies about . This media obsession with her is laughable.
That is actually what I was surprised about. Why not make a documentary about Nefeteri who had more claim to black African ancestry than Cleopatra.
Cleopatra was not black. She was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, which means that she was Macedonian Greek. She was inbred as all royal Egyptian rulers were expected to marry with other family members in order to keep the bloodline pure. Just look at how messed up King Tut's DNA was. His parents were brother and sister!...Yuck! She spoke numerous languages, including Egyptian, but her first language was Greek. It's not that hard to figure out.
Thanks for sharing your video and views!
There are a few things here, that I think confuse a lot of people - especially in the US.
1. Africa is a massive continent, and people look very different, depending on where they are from - e.g. North Africa, West Africa, etc. A blanket comment of ‘all African’s are black’ (which is what Jada alludes too), is incorrect, and narrow minded. North Africans are a Mediterranean people - they don’t look like someone from Senegal, or Kenya, or Nigeria. And that’s the same for someone from Ethiopia, who would look different to someone from Ghana, Cameroon or Mali.
2. DNA evidence shows Egyptians of today, are the descendants of Ancient Egyptians. So if Cleopatra was half Greek and half Egyptian, she would still look Mediterranean, and no sub-Saharan.
3. Cleo’s identity is not as debated as Netflix/Jada make it out to be. Most academics agree that her family practiced inbreeding, and any theories around her mother are just that - theories, and they vary. The most common are she was Greek, she was Egyptian, or she may have been Iranian (through the Seleucid kingdoms to the east).
While their is unfortunately a political agenda behind the person cast to play her in the upcoming documentary, this is offensive to both Egyptians and Greeks - who share a part on Cleo’s history, and using the excuse of “is debated” as an open door to cast whoever, just goes to show the lack of detail or investigation done in producing this “documentary”.
Thank you so much for this thoughtful contribution to the conversation. I hate to think the casting choice was more political agenda than artistic margin, but we live in a different world these days.
Modern nA of present day Egyptians does NOT trace there lineage back to the ancient Egyptians. The ancient Egyptians showed the world who they were from thousands of temple writings and pictures and statues. They was an Kemet African civilization and people. Perhaps if people remove the modern day prejudice against black people then we all will see what the Greeks said on the subject
Except it's not a “show.” it's presented as a documentary. It's literally in the title.
They should make a movie where malcom x is white and michael jordan is korean
Double Standard
White American actors playing Cleopatra = "Exotic"
Black American actors playing Cleopatra = "Lies"
Make a documentary about Rosa Parks as a WHITE person
We Africans are equally outraged about this. We really don’t care about cleopatra. But why blame Netflix ? There are a lot of questions the whole world need answers to that not a single Egyptian can provide. So of course the misappropriation of your culture will continue. Give the world the answers it needs.
1. How was the pyramids built. And what was its purpose. ?
2. Why was the name changed from kemet to Egypt ?
3. What do the glyphs mean. ?
4. What the Egyptian/ kemet spirituality all about and many more unanswered questions
Until then. You are Arabs and Egypt/ Kermit is not Arab.
So don’t blame Netflix. We west Africans don’t care about cleopatra. We have so much problems already.
Im West African, too (other side of the family). I cant answer those questions, but I appreciated reading them!
Make a documentary about Langston Hughes as a WHITE person
:crickets:
Her father or grandfather was one of Alexander the Great 's friends and generals.
She could have been a light complexion and able to pass like many of us.
Great video Danielle!
a lot further back than that 335 or so BC and she was around 45BC but she was surrounded by Greeks from teachers to generals not much interaction with everyday Egyptians
Thank you, it's interesting how it's usually the same conversation presented in infinite ways.
@@cathleenhunzeker1344 possible but we aren't talking her interaction here. We are talking racial mak up/Ethnicity.
Ya wouldn't know I am mixed by looking at me, but I am.
@@nytn Yes indeed. I am sure if we could do her ethnicity she'd be mixed. Just like US.
Get out of here with that complexity bs
She was Greek, not African American and not "black".
"Black people" don't exist. There is no country called "Black" or "Blackrica" or "Blackriland" or "Blaxico".
The term "black people" emerged as a self-identifying term for African Americans during the mid-1960s as part of the Civil Rights Movement and the Black Power movement.
And I'm pretty sure the pyramid builders were not African Americans (aka "black") who lived AFTER 1960.
I looked at a fair amount Ancient Egyptian art and they seemed to have a variety of features and skin shades. Cleopatra was Greek but if we don't know her mother's heritage it seems hard to be sure what she looked like.
I have too!
The painting of Cleopatra14 Century Occiton Manuscript British Library say she was black
Look at the coins with her profile.
Her mother was 90% likely to be Cleopatra V, her father's wife. The only reason it's not "confirmed" is that there are no documents explicitly stating it. That said, there were NO accusations that she was illegitimate, and if she had been her political enemies would have jumped at the opportunity to use that against her.
Finally and intelligent conversation on this. We just dont know for sure what half her heritage is. Honestly this wouldnt be a big deal if she was a white actress
Nice content..historians are not quite united when it comes to topic about cleopatras skin color. Personally I would pick the historical theories and opinions prior to the Netflix issue, I feel like those are less biased and more objective. These new opinions and theories coming out this 2023 are either politically motivated and have some underlying agendas.
Actually historians are quite sure she was not black and llooked caucasian. They are also sure ancient were never black. They were brown skin semitics. Egyptians are not happy because afrocentrics keep trying to steal egyptian history
What historians are you talking about. There are literal accounts on her appearance by numerous people. Ffs it's recorded that she had light skin and red hair
@@joelhungerford8388 what accounts are you talking about?, Red haired?. you mean the the images from Pompeii and Hurculaneum during her period?, But those are NOT CONFIRMED to be Cloepatra, some historians just assumed that those are images of Cleopatra. White skin?, you mean that poem from Lucan describing her having white breast? but Lucan havent seen Cleopatra in flesh, lemme guess, you just begin searching stuff this 2023? Well enlighten me and let me see or give me links of those accounts that you are talking about perhaps I just missed something.
Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian!!!!!!! She's from Greece!!! What's this obsession with the color anyway?! EGYPTIANS ARE African because Egypt is located I. AFRICA. SOO WHY DOES THIS matter on the skin color?? Just Being from a country that's inside africa isn't enough for The people I'm 80% German and I'm sure if I lived in Egypt and I was outside in the sun my skin would be very very dark!! Everyone wants Racism ro stop but nobody ever shuts up about the color of someone skin. It's such a sad a pathetic argument when people haven't stopped to say. Wait cleo isn't even Egyptian and it's Hot in Egypt and it's in Africa so.. yes I'm sure their skin is dark. Also go to Egypt today. The people today will show you the true skin of Egyptians. Why would color change from then till today!?!?!? Stop segregating everyone due to color and get your facts correct before speaking on it! Love and Light Beautiful ones 🤍💙💚💜🦄💫👽🛸
When considering Cleopatra, bear in mind that King Tutankhamun was an Egyptian pharoah who was, without much doubt anymore, a black person.
"King Tut was BLACK. I deny DNA."😂
Even if that would be the case, what has it to do with Cleopatra? There are more than 1000 years between them and Tut is definetly not related to Cleopatra in any way.
From what we know is I think it is safe to say Cleopatra was most likely Greek in appearance. But it does show that Egyptians society has the typical global colorism issue. It seems the answer is that Egyptians span from whitish middle eastern appearance to caramel color african appearance. But there seems to be a huge outrage if someone mistakes them for being mostly african in appearance but very little outrage if people mistake them for being a population that is 100 % in middleastern with some european appearance. The fact that they are listed as white in the US census does the job of erasing dark skin Egyptians and by definition could be said to be erasing egyptian identity. Fact is most people even the majority of black americans think Egypt is located in the middle east next to other middle eastern countries and think the population is 95% middleastern.
Very very interesting!!! Proud black woman over here! 👋🏽 I never understood why it’s so frowned upon to be black?
if you are speaking about color ...see doll test
if about race it is for the most part because "racial profiling"
@@Berserker-ep3rs That’s what you want to believe. I had a good friend in college who is Egyptian along with here WHOLE family. She is my complexion with Afro textured hair. One day we were walking across 7th Avenue in NYC after class, she used to dress very eccentric and was wearing a very loud and bright neon yellow coat when 3 young guys walking in the opposite direction crossed our paths started laughing and dissing her to her face in Arabic. Why??? Because they didn’t think she understood them because obviously they didn’t think she was one of them because she didn’t fit phenotype that they thought Egyptians look like! So, please miss me on that we’re not sub Saharan Africans nor were your ancestors mess. Kmt!
@@tishainnis You do understand that Egyptians did import millions of your girls in the last 1000 years and some did have kids
@Berserker not true at all but you keep believing in that on some Santa is real type ish
@Berserker we have numbers from barbers...prices ....many women for that you did not sleep with them
and today you have 6-8% of their dna ( almost all of it introduced through women ) that your ancestors did not have
As a history nerd of mixed ethnicity I think Hollywood was wrong on both accounts of first whitewashing then blackwashing Cleopatra. Egyptians are allowed to be upset but civilised please and no hate mail, especially as actresses just do what the director tells them to after being casted. I think the people of Egypt in the time of the Pharaoh's will have looked pretty similar to the people living there today, and that is neither white nor black but a Mediterranean/Middle Eastern mix. So I understand that after repeated cultural appropriation the Egyptians get ticked off.
When you say Pharos would look like the people living there today what do you mean . As far is I’ve seen the old kingdom and Middle Kingdom when the pyramids were built the people their looked different then the people their now.
@@Maatson_ I think only the dress and hair styles changed, the skin color in Egypt looks pretty similar now than it did 4,000 years ago. The last 2-3 generations more people will have worked inside which will lead to lighter skin tones in the really long run.
@@mogreen19 I appreciate the input but I beg to differ, at the end of the middle kingdoms and most of the new kingdoms Egypt was concurred by the Hyksos , the Persian , Greek a few others and the Arabs which are still their today . Egypt became a melting pot of mixed races way after the pyramids were built. Also Egypt was not a costal country in old kingdoms majority of their kingdoms were in southern Egypt. they also had More cultural ties to what is modern day Sudan their neighbors. Not only that they stated their ancestors came from the beginning of the Nile well that’s in Southern Africa at two main points . I say all this to say that their ancestors has a strong connection to souther Africa aka Sudan Ethiopia and Kenya then it did europ , not until the late middle kingdoms and new kingdoms when it became a melting pot . Even when it became a melting pot we have several Greek and Roman writers who describe the difference between the Egyptian and the other groups that came and mixed with them.
Cancel Netflix. Too much race baiting!
I actually dont have it anymore! I feel like everything turns into us vs them these days...
@@nytn Its a right and wrong conversation.The truth versus a lie
The lady that's playing her is of mixed race not black. Black people are dark skin not light
This is almost as bad as Tolkien fans flaming black dwarves. Tolkien drew on Norse mythology and most Norse dwarves were dark. Yes, Cleopatra was of a Greek dynasty but the Ptolemies had been in Egypt for centuries. Even with their taste for incest it is unlikely they were still purely Greek. Upper Egypt aka Nubia was in the Egyptian civilization and even ascendant at times. Ani in the book of the dead is fairly dark and shows a very tightly curled hair type. The actress is almost certainly darker than Cleopatra, certainly lighter than some Pharaohs and probably lighter than a few of Cleopatra's ancestors.
My "problem" with the black dwarves and elves wasn't that they were black, it was that this series was meant as a PREQUEL to the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings movies. And as such one has to wonder what happened to all the black people to make for an all-white cast (excepting Orcs!) in the original LOTR movies that timeline-wise were meant to happen later.
"Tolkien was RASCIST like ME."
Nope
Before I go must thanks Danielle for a great show and content 😊
Cleopatra was Greek. Even her name is Greek.
She was half Greek with biracial genes. Also realize that a lot of Greeks at that time were biracial.
@@chidede She wasn't "bi-racial" she was of Macedonian/Greek lineage.
And no they weren't. You're conflating ethnicity with race.
In school i learned cleopatra was greek, from the ptolemy leaders, and had red hair. Don't expect to learn anything from hollywood or netflix.
Well maybe an Egyptian should make a movie about bob marley
They have
Maybe Hollywood should make a real and true movie about the American .Look up the definition for American first Edition1828 and look at them pennies. Europeans did the same thing with the Egyptian and Cleopatra .Also look up Emblem of America1798 this is how white people white wash history
Or MLK
@@90000cg they already have and had a foreigner actor
Black Genesis: The prehistoric origin of ancient Egypt/Kemet presents proof that an advanced Black African civilization inhabited the sahara long before pharaonic Egypt/Kemet reveals Black Africa to be at the Genesis of ancient civilization and the human story.
🙏🏽🙌🏾
I think about the pictures of her on the walls in Egypt and that is of a woman of color.
Yes it is
Not sure what woman of color means to you in this context?
@@Chris-dt5td she was not white, she was black and the word black in convoluted also. Her sisters DNA indicated that she was Nubian, she that should help clarify the color, hopefully.
Not her sister.
I had always thought she was greek
I don’t intend to watch this documentary. I did watch the British show that cast a black actress as Anne Boleyn but that was a fictional account not a documentary.
Good point, I think the idea of a story vs documentary definitely matters!
The Arab population of Egypt today are not the original ancient Egyptians by blood which is a fact. They are only Egyptians by invasion and now because they live there. Muslims invaded Egypt and Arabs are now the majority population.
Europeans invaded the Americas but Europeans are not the original ancient Native Americans. That is the same fact about Egyptians. Ancient Egyptians had to convert to Muslim or die. However, the people of ancient Egyptians were not Muslim until they were forced to convert in order to live. DNA doesn't lie so the Egyptians who are of Arab descendants are not from the bloodline of the original ancient Egyptians who were black before admixture.
The Grecians have not found any records in Greece claiming that Cleopatra's mother was European. Remember that Europeans are great at documenting their lineages. Therefore for Greece to never show any records of Cleopatra's mother, she may have been Egyptian which were a people of melanated skin tones of different shades of black. However, no Egyptian records share who Cleopatra's mother was and if she was Egyptian.
The original ancient Egyptians were black.
A black or mixed race Cleopatra is more realistic to me that a Grecian Cleopatra. Too bad there is no available records about who her mother was or should I say there's no remaining records of who her mother was. Europeans all through history have lied about the true identity of many people of color.
Make a documentary about Serena Jameka Williams as a WHITE person
:crickets:
Your brother is handsome and does look Arab. 🙂 I will check out the documentary. People get their panties in a wad over stuff like this. See how this concept of 'race" has been used to hurt us all? . We haven't been taught our true history, and one day everything will come to life. And I think then the whole world will be shocked. Original people from that land were black. I remember writing something about this in a paper in grad school, and my professor made sure to correct my (small) comment telling me something about Greece, and etc. As long as the mainstream history is accepted, this is not likely to be corrected. I like how you said, "how we discuss identity as a whole." And that is it. It's all been twisted and so we have to go through this. But that's another subject for another time. That's my 0.2. Sending love to you!
Leave the Greeks alone, they don't want to be bothered with you-go annoy some other group
Is it true that Netflix next factual documentary about Hitler has him cast as an African ?
She was Macedonian, with no black African DNA like myself. Black to most people means Sub Saharan. That being said, we Sub Saharans aren't homogenious. Some of us are extremely dark, and others are light, with varying phenotypes. But genetically few people in ancient Egypt have our DNA so she definitely wasn't black or African exactly she was more so Eurasian.
AND YOU ARE A FAKE AS WE ALL KNOW,SORRY
I seen some Africans that apart from skincoulor look pretty much European. It is really odd actually.
Is Steph Curry a subsaharan African?
@@michaelpettersson4919 where from?
@@facetofloor he is mixed race with Eurasian and African heritage.
The people of north Africa are not black . They are Mediterranean.
Simply put she technically wasn't born in africa because that area was occupied by the alexandrian empire at the time. By greeks.
George, I need to read up on this. Was the continent of Africa not called Africa at that time? I guess it matters if we are retroactively applying labels. Thanks for the comment
@@nytn the African continent was named Africa in the 17th century. During roman times, Africa was a province of the roman empire that consisted of north africa, Tunisia, Algeria and Libya (at least some parts of these countries).
@@dreamiden Thank you! That changes things a bit doesnt it?
@@nytn you are welcome. Also, to bring more context. Egypt during the reign of Cleopatra VII was still within the Hellenistic period. After her death, it got annexed into its roman province and the Hellenistic period in Egypt ended. Egypt, up until Cleo’s death, was conquered by various foreign powers, right before the greeks were the achaemenedic persians and after her the romans who annexed it as their province.
Back then, as greek rulers over Egypt, Cleopatra’s family did not throughout the 300 years want to assimilate with the Egyptian civilization and married within the family as this would ensure both the purity of the bloodline and the social class they belonged to. Cleopatra that we know of the most was the 7th and last. She was also married to her brothers. (Just not at the same time lol), the only one of her entire family to learn the Egyptian language and had children with both Caesar and mark antony.
@@dreamiden Scipio Africanus was a Roman general who fought in Africa tho' - are you saying that the Romans just called that northern area Africa, but didn't have the concept that it was a continent as yet? Interesting.
Seems to me Cleopatra was mixed race. But more important...beautiful and smart. Able to compete on world stage. Albeit deadly.
Something that’s missed in these discussions is the fact that many cultures want to be closely identified with Europeans more than their own identity. You will notice this phenomenon in South and Central America and Middle East. They want to be more recognized with European ancestry than indigenous ancestry. The comment on your brother was clear example when you mentioned it. People of colour outside the west would bleach their skins to avoid their ancestry.
...and white ppl go to the beach / solarium to get darker skin and europeans talk more about their ancestry outside of europe. Very weak arguments all together.
She's not a Egyptian. She's Cheese from kimmit.
why would you struggle about Cleopatra race? there are pure Black queens, Like Queen Taytu, who won Italy battle ( The Battle of ADWA) Ethiopia. I think Jeda need to produce this documentary.
I agree that there are plenty of other stories out there to pick from
The consensus among scholars is that she was a light skinned Macedonian greek.
Now, there is some Syrian blood that got into the Ptolemaic line from an earlier marriage with a Seleucid queen, which was no other than Cleopatra I, introducing that name in the lineage, the famous one is Cleopatra VII. The Seleucids were Greeks too, but they intermarried more often with the local nobility, meanwhile the Ptolemies inbreeded, so it’s even harder that she had any strong non-greek trait.
Now, as her mother been a black concubine, it is a ridiculous long shot, if there had been any hint that she was a bastard, that would have been used by her enemies in Rome, particularly Octavian, would have written about it long and often, to discredit her, and there are just no records. If her mother wasn’t Cleopatra VI most likely would have been someone from a reputable noble family, and she being from Alexandria, a greek city, most likely, it would have been someone greek.