"It's Ridiculous!" Destiny Reacts to Viral Jordan Peterson Debate
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
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Steven Bonnell II is a popular American political streamer known online as "Destiny"
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The church has dozens and dozens of armies. Every christian majority country would deploy its military to defend their church puppet masters.
There is no bigger government than a Republican or Conservative aka Theocracy government.
The world's smallest city-state came into existence on the 11th of February 1929 after the signing of the Lateran Treaty. This treaty granted Vatican City the status of a country, bringing to an end a period of political and religious turmoil in Italy. So yes, they do everything that Kerit said they do not do. It does have a de facto military made up of several different armed forces of the Holy See.
Is it me or are you marketing Dr. Peterson's name for views??
Jordan never said that just because something is big it must be bad. That is a complete strawman.
Cruel setup making Destiny look tiny while discussing gigantism.
He makes himself look small by having no spine. Posture is important people 😅
He makes Alex look gigantic!
They could have let him sit on a phone book or something.
He is tiny...and why someone the caliber of alex would have this cretin on is beyond me.
Would be funny if they at the end of the interview revealed the forced perspective illusion with Destiny sitting way in the back lol
It made me laugh how short Destiny looks in that chair. This is the most gnome he's ever looked
Especially as he’s talking about large and small bodies lol 1:34 is **chef’s kiss**
he look like a Deep Gnome
LOLLL ffs I didn't notice til I saw your comment. That one camera angle where they're both on show 😭
the guy has ZERO posture. The way he looks litterally makes me feel unwell somehow.
Destiny's chair is deeper if you compare them, a bit unfair to put guests in that
When Destiny reacts to this convo, all he's going to talk about is how the chair made him look even shorter than he already is
trueeee
He usually sits in the corner of the room so he felt out of place
he seems to have this problem a lot... hmmm
It's also that Alex is actually very tall, so Destiny looks small by comparison. Xd
Part of it is his posture
I must admit, with Destiny and Jordan Peterson in the title and thumbnail, I didn’t think to look at the channel name and got very confused when Alex showed up.
Same same
I must admit I expected hasanabi
You don't have to admit that.
@@JonnyUnforeseen I must admit that I agree with you.
same here lol
I just realized that AOC could refer to two different people: Alex O'Connor and Alexandra Ocasia-Cortez
That's a random 3am thought if I ever saw one but hey, you're right 😂
Come to think of it, I've never seen them both in the same room at the same time.
I hate how americans expect the whole world to know what nonsense they're talking about. None of her names are so difficult that it justifies referring to this woman as an acronym. She's a politician not a rapper.
@@SineN0mine3 Expecting people watching the interview of American politics channel on an American website to understand references to famous American politicians.
Frikken privileged Americans, I swear.
And Acronyms!? Why do proud women like JFK and FDR always get reduced to these silly nicknames like they're rappers!?
@@SineN0mine3 Sorry, is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez really popular outside of America or something? I'd assume 99% of people who know Alexandra Ocasia-Cortez are familiar with the name AOC. Same as MLK and Martin Luther King. And if not, the names are synonymous enough for google to give you the answer.
Also it's not that 'one of her names' is hard it's that she has 3 names and it is long lol. John, F, and Kennedy are not very complicated names yet we still call the dude JFK. It's an American thing I suppose but it has nothing to do with the name being hard to pronounce.
Has anyone pointed out that 'gigantism' is a medical condition yet?
there was an elephant man earlier in the comments here
It's pretty irrelevant to what they're saying
Some people like to appropriate words
Is it when there's a "tumor" between your legs that's giagantic?
yeah, you just did.
Those are the most uncomfortable looking chairs I’ve ever seen in my life.
But also, why are they both just going along with it like this is fine, a perfectly normal way for humans to sit.
Because both are a bit coo coo in the head, a touch of special.😂😂
theyre like a chair couch hybrid. ive seen similar ones before, you really sink in unless you shift forwards towards the edge and sit up straight. or he needs some more pillows or something behind him.
I finally noticed what I find wrong with Destiny, he is not disingenuous, I feel like its some form of autistic inability to see past face value what someone is telling him.
Alex"s interpretation of what Peterson said was exactly what I took from their conversation, otherwise why would he point out specifically the ability to jail you or tax you? CLEARLY he is making a distinction between the abilities of giant institutions if "Giangantism " means big = bad then why would be the point of making that distinction??? They are all the same according to Destiny's interpretation 🤦♂.
Destiny is stupid
As someone with gigantism please don’t be scared of me
@@liamthomas2014 "I am not an animal. I'm a HUMAN BEING!"
AHHHH!
Scared? Nah.
Horny? Absolutely 🥴
He got his threads in order and even brushed his hair. I’m proud of Destiny. Our boy is growing up. 😂
Did you just misgender her?
lol. still no tie though.
took a while
He could do better on that shirt
Destiny selling out by changing his look to appease hypebeast.
Had to check the playback speed on this one
Right? Adderall is insane. I never had to slow down a video to understand someone before.
@@dududadadede96 Bruh I'm still watching it on x2
@@TianYuanEX What are you on ? :D
@@dududadadede96 he isnt on adderall and he spoke like this before taking adhd medication
@@TianYuanEX Same. I genuinely don't understand why people have problems with it
Let's not forget that historically, the catholic church pretty much could do all of those things. Religious schisms and even the rise of secularism has neutered the Catholic church, but they absolutely could and would continue to do all of those things if they had not been forced out of their influence over time.
And liberals are doing this now so let address wtf happening rn and then we can talk about history.
And yet the secular dictatorships of the 20th century were all worse than all the worst horrors of Christian theocracy combined.
@@monteraidwhataboutism. This is specifically about the Catholic Church.
@@monteraid Is Russia "liberal"? Practically no matter what your nationality, every government on Earth can tax you, conscript you, throw you in jail, etc. Regardless of the dominant political ideology (fascistic, conservative, liberal, communistic, or whatever). The principle of governance is not intrinsically bad. The whole point is idiotic.
@@abdullahnisar2219 No - it's specifically about gigantism and tyranny. It's happening RIGHT NOW with our corrupt legacy establishment. You either know it, or you are getting played to not know it.
Nice to see you together again and again
Destiny is a genocide apologist
The thing is, Jordan Peterson was saying that the Ring was against Gigantism in all forms: Big Parma, Big Tech, Hollywood, and yes Big Government, but when Destiny shot back the example of the Catholic Church he only gave examples of things Government can do (and the Catholic Church could do historically). This was a clear Motte and Bailey on Peterson's part, since Destiny's point did apply to all the other things that the Right seems to be against Big Parma, Big Tech, and Hollywood have definitely less power than the Catholic Church in many ways.
Agreed, but also it's not the nature of being big that's bad. It's the fact large institutions are corruptible as history has shown. We have to be very cautious with giving too much power to any single entity.
I would agree with you if the church was giving tens of billions of dollars to politicians to push policy for them rather than for the people, like big cooperations are doing. Maybe that is the case and im unaware of it, i would have to research it. I think the general problem is, cooperations should not be allowed to "donate" aka bribe politicians and it should be a federal charge for media, hollywood etc to push agendas unless they have specific disclaimers saying they are a propaganda network. Under my assumption that the church does not donate to politicians i think the difference is that these big cooperations carry the power of the government indirectly by bribing them in our current system and hollywood, media etc are pushing propaganda that can literally ruin your life if you have the "wrong" opinions. I think the current system is just as corrupt and dirty as the Catholic church was back in the day. I also want to say im deeply against religion on the boarder to where i think it should be criminalized due to the obvious problems it brings. Then again it brings some good if we cherry pick it to stop degeneracy in society. Thats just my 2 cents.
How was it Motte and Bailey on Peterson's part when it was destiny to conflate Catholic Church with Big Pharma etc (assuming it was a bad example).So as far as I understand what is being said in this clip, it is Destiny who made the invoked falacy. If you find what I just wrote wrong please but me back to senses because I don't feel strong about it.
In the Peterson clip in this very video, he says that he sees the overlap between the catholic church and the other giants, so if he was employing a motte and bailey, he was doing a poor job at it. And in which ways does the catholic curch hold more power/influence over you/the average person than big pharma, big tech or big government? That seems a pretty ridiculous statement in 2024.
destiny should have responded: "big pharma can't throw you in jail either"
Bad camera angle. Destiny looks like he’s 4’5. 😑
I had to google Destiny to find out if he was a dwarf or something.
Different chairs.
Intellectually, he is.
@@frankiethefish73😂😂😂 same
Crazy that he’s 3’4” irl
Waiting for this collab
The bigness in “Big government” is not the numbers of people in the government, it’s about the number of areas of life that the government is involved in. A totalitarian government run by a dictator is small in number of rulers and big in how much that ruler is in control of.
Exactly. Like a prison system.
the smaller it is the easier it is to conspire as well.
Yeah Destiny was fighting a pretty big strawman here
@@OleVinny you missed the opportunity to say "giant* strawman"
Indeed, it sure would be bad if the government was instructing people to cut their kids' genitals, or forbidding them from marrying a certain sex, or telling them that they will be punished for eternity if they do not worship something they cannot even verify exists. Oh wait, those are things the catholic church does.
Lol the wide shot
Alex Is way more intellucally honest than Destiny
no. not more honest. is honest. destiny is a cuck snake pretending to sound flowery.
Please drop the episode I’ve been waiting….I’m hungry 😭😭😭
Although I don't agree in general with Peterson's argument, and kind of agree with the general thrust here, that whole approximately 2 minutes from 1:27 onwards going on about how 'ridiculous' the idea is is to miss the whole point. The talk of 'size' here, as it has been used in this context for decades, is not about physical size, but the 'size' of intervention and control.
Exactly. Government overreach isn't equal to size vs. government overreach is highly correlated with size.
I believe that Destiny is trying his very best to avoid this great quote by a famous philosopher, "With great power comes great responsibility".
"I wonder what your post mortem was on that part" was hilarious
Well well well just looked it up and what a nice timing!
"I f*cked it up the other day, but I'll distort the argument he made so that mine looks better. He's ridiculous". But he said something different. "Naaaah, he didn't, he's ridiculous"
He was so thoroughly owned and intellectually defeated that he clearly hasn’t recovered to this day. Changes the conversation into something where he can be right, leaving the actual issue behind entirely because he was wrong.
@YungStinkyWinky Many people with a progressive ideology behave in such a manner.
It appears to me that Destiny can't take the L.
@@YungStinkyWinky How naive I was when I though that when once defeated, people will revisit and change their opinions. His fanbase doesn't seem to have weakend neither. I don't know if discussing things is relevant to be honest
I like this whole "Destiny dresses and presents himself like the intelligent person that he is" arc. So much better than the "troll under a bridge" arc.
Man I hate that stupid hair swipe style. He's uped his wardrobe but used spit and comb to mop his hair. Overall, an improvement nonetheless.
Yeah, the whole "$10 blue tee and sweatpants" look definitely doesn't project a sense of competence outside of playing video games.
it would actually be more ghoulish of him to dress nicely with a suit and tie
Hey, don't knock the troll under a bridge vibe. From Diogenes to Zizek, philosophers found it to be a tough strat to beat.
The "troll under the bridge" look makes him look like a zen master. Or L from Death Note or something. It's what made him unique. I don't think he should dress like a normie.
I'm looking forward to this podcast.
I was there for this lol
I think that Desinty is pretty obviously misunderstanding Peterson's point. Peterson's criticism is not against large countries, it is against large governing bodies that tend to violate subsidiarity. One might ask whether large governments are part and parcel with larger countries and the answer is not necessarily. Of course, when it is scaled, the number of governing officials must increase, but the government's reach does not have to. The comparison between a government and the Catholic Church fell short because the Church is not a governing body in the way the we traditionally conceive of a country's government.
Destiny is intellectual dishonest. He doesn't make the effort necessary to understand things in depth because that is not his goal.
@SaviorMoney-777 you're absolutely wrong and you've clearly never bothered to actually watch him.
Your whole argument rests on the premise that a large government by default is necessarily going to violate principle by virtue of it being large as the only descriptor, but without providing an actual reason.
It makes no sense at all.
The reason why a lot of people cannot stand Peterson is different to why some people can’t stand Destiny. Peterson is always, like a good right wing personality, trying to tinge his arguments with a hint of conspiracy. So although his argument of big state may be powerful, it loses credibility with many because of those conspirical implications. Destiny on the other hand, will denounce any whiff of conspiracy because he feels it perverts productive conversations. I think that on a balance or scale, Destiny’s arguments hold more weight than Peterson’s.
@@starfallmusicaus I've watched him a bunch of times. That's how I know. Sorry he has you fooled, though.
why is tiny looking so tiny here
Smaller chair, what a power move by Alex 😂
Come on guys 😂😂😂
Little known fact, Alex is actually taller than one might first assume
Alex is over 6 feet tall. I saw him irl and heard he is around 6'2 or something
*They both seem to be completely missing the point here. The point about gigantism is essentially one about entropy; the more moving parts in a mechanism, the higher the probability of it breaking down and malfunctioning because there are more potential points of failure. The same is true of bureaucracy: the larger it becomes and the more bureaucrats in it - the more likely it is to become corrupt. The soviet union and china would be good examples, and probably the US too tbh. The better option is localism, a plurality of smaller, well managed systems. It's quite odd that this went over their heads.*
Destiny's initial pushback was very straw-manny. The size of the federal government and how that might be related to badness has zilch to do with how many states the US is composed of; it is the relative size and complexity of the government to the thing it is governing. Also, while I quite often disagree with JP, and the moniker "gigantism" in this case is a little silly, I would hazard to say that the reason it is bad is because of bureaucracy, for all the kinds of organizations mentioned. Essentially they become unwieldy and too huge for a single person or even group of people to adequately apprehend and direct, which inevitably results in corruption.
Last time i was this early i had to apologise
LOL
You're just excited
Ahhhhaa, you make joke you have sex with man or woman and you very fast have a male orgasmo and because this your penis will no longer be hard enough to pleasure lady or man and they get not satisfied and disappointed and you make apology to try to make situation a little bit better
Happens to the best of us... Nothing worse than having to say "My bad" afterwards. lol
Just want to thank you for making me laugh today, sir 🤣 appreciate it
Destiny sadly has a severe case of contrariness. In these past few years when we all clearly see the perils of big corporations and people unwilling to step aside from power, destiny wants to be the contrarian who says "but not all corporations are bad". Yes, Destiny, we know your prowess in whataboutism, it doesn't discount the fact that the powers in the world right now are becoming more tyrannical. Saturn devoured his son to remain in power. Destiny shouldnt have to look too far to see the political state of his country to admit that.
First decent take I have seen here so far.
Absolutely.
How is the world becoming more tyrannical?
Cope
Could you give an example of how he's a contrarian?
Will this full episode be available for free in a while?
Yes
Sunday or Monday
Drop the whole video
As a very small government guy myself, I think the point you guys are both missing is the human element. People are not commodities. While centralizing government looks good on paper, all it does at the end of the day is reduce living people to names and numbers on a piece of paper. The problem is not the size of the nation but to what degree the government is centralized and the people making decisions about our lives are distanced from us and totally beyond our scope.
Ideally, 90-95% of government and laws in the US should occur at the town level, and towns should be limited to 2500 people so everybody can know every one of 12-24 members of their town council/council of elders and all the policemen, lawyers and judges by name and hold them personally accountable 12-24 town councils all send a representative to a representative council of 12-24 towns that make up a shire, and so on. 12-24 shires make a county. 12-24 counties make a state. They We rejected monarchy in part because of how distant the government from the people and how consolidated the power is.
Great points!
Also, it is true that "power corrupts", so if you have a huge state (or organization, for that matter), it is important to make sure that no singular people or group get too much power over decisions that affect the lives of other people.
It might sound nice on paper but how are you going to go about "enforcing" this size limitation? If we have town a of 2500 which does a great job of setting up schools are we going to forbid people from trying to move from town b to town a? Do we think just the nature of the "competition" between these two places is going to keep us at some steady state of equal levels of services/desirability to live there?
Then we have potential capacity issues for all the different little micro communities. Can you really support all those people on your local tax base? Are we assuming all these people are part time/unpaid? Are all of these communities going to have to have bilateral relations with all the others or is there a county/state structure over the top of them? Will it not be much more efficient/supportive of community needs to consolidate some of those things at those higher echelons and basically end up where we started?
@@Nevins1331 Great questions.
One of the inbuilt limitations of such a system is to require towns to split once they hit 2501 residents. Because towns are almost entirely self-governing, they can banish people and limit any and all immigration to their town, because they are free to maintain their preferred lifestyle. There's also an inherent sink-or-swim utilitarianism built-in to the system, in which all larger than town level governmental support and welfare shuts down and any existing stocked goods are distributed to local-level churches, charities and town councils. In implementing this system, you give people 3-6 months to elect their council, start growing their own food and implement a self-sufficiency and welfare plan and then boom, everyone is completely cut off. The only purpose of federal government is national defense and international diplomacy. Every town is obligated to have 10 active military personnel stationed at military bases and 10 active reserves at home (which two groups may swap back and forth on a one-month-on-duty, one-month-off basis). Towns maybe obviously have their own trade agreements with their neighbors and broker mutually beneficial deals and have joint town events, like a weekly farmer's market, but such things are limited to no more than three towns in scope. In short, you build in certain basic hard limitations to limit the potential centralization of government, because one of the underlying tenets of this form of government is decentralization of power. As much as possible of everything is focused at the local level only, so the people who rule over you answer to you personally.
The Alex O’Connor argument was Peterson argument. Destiny coping…nice guy but I wallows in denial sometimes.
Funny because JP tried to point out to him the dangers of trying to win vs searching for the truth.
I think the gigantism problem in institutions stems from the situations where there is no countervailing force to limit an organisation's natural tendency towards bureaucratic sprawl. A company in a competitive market cannot grow itself without the new added parts paying for themselves. This is not the case with government, or with large companies that hold some degree of monopolistic power.
where is full episode ?
Peterson's argument is really more about monopolies of power than "gigantism". As an individual, you can't opt out of federal laws. You can opt out of some state laws by moving state. State governments are good because there are many of them competing for your tax revenue, not necessarily because they're small.
Most people in the world can’t opt out of state laws, it’s something quite unique to the US. The real question should be why the government is so large in some respect but tos small in others. For example compare spending on social security to what agencies like the CIA and military consume. However the right wing only seems to be concerned about the size of government when it comes to helping out the population the government is supposed to protect
@@daikucoffee5316 There is also freedom of movement within the EU. Obviously it's more challenging with language barriers etc. but sort of similar.
Re: size of budgets vs size of government, I'm not sure that's the same argument. Big budgets and small government would mean more of the money makes it to the people who need it rather than administrators.
@@christophrowley There is freedom of movement but you there are only a few countries which allow you to move there and only if you have a job. Think more green card than the US state system.
"just move to another country"
"just move to another state"
You can opt out of some state laws or tax rates by moving, unless you can't
Spicy when Jorbson Fanboys come up against Destiny Fanboys 😂
Fair XD
Ground news is a great idea. Perhaps there is some synergy with community notes on X?
Peterson didn't seem to be suggesting that gigantism is bad, just that conservatives are suspicious of it.
I think Alex's point was in line with Peterson's. Perhaps I missed something here.
but conservatives in general arent.
conservatism basically started because it shuddered edmund burke at the thought of the french revolution and its implications.
literal lower class peasants having a say in anything like at all was something he spat on.
its jus specifically "anglo-american conservatives" (dunno if thats a real description even well now it is) that want as little government intervention as possible and also that is very selective because we are still talking about conservatism here.
just look at the last 60 years of us politics (or any eu country for that matter) and see which political parties where just all to happy to limit the freedoms and rights of all sorts people from women over gay people to children to what cultural goods should be allowed to consume and which should not.
always a conservative modus operandi never a liberal one.
not for nothing was conservatism more or less a direct answer to liberalism and the egalitarianism that just had its philosohpical uprising at that time.
"thats an alex oconor argument not a jordan peterson argument" is wrong. Jordan was not making the claim that because something is big it is intrinsically bad. He was referring to gigantism in the same way alex is here in this video.
Do you have an issue with Destiny's response to that?
I went back and rewatched that segment of the conversation, and that was not the claim he initially made. Peterson was making the argument that gigantism in institutions raises people's suspicions of those institutions across political lines, Destiny brought up the Catholic church as a counter to that, because many people on the right who are catholic have no problem with gigantism in that institution. Peterson then shifted the goalpost by talking about qualities that go beyond gigantism, yet he attributed the suspicion of those qualities as suspicion of gigantism itself. It's not that Tiny strawmanned Peterson, it's that Peterson changed his argument after Destiny brought up the church. Everything he brought up that governments can do that the church can't is also applicable to other things that the right distrusts, such as big pharma, big tech, and hollywood. Those things can't conscript you, imprison you, or force you to pay them money just to exist, yet they are large and distrusted by the right.
Peterson was incredibly unclear with which is point meant, so I don't blame Destiny tbh lol
Thanks for this , saved me having to go back and watch original debate@@specialknees6798
Peterson uses vague terminology, then moves his goalposts when you counterpoint him. But you’re the simpleton who isn’t listening and/or understanding him.
Because of some former friends and Peterson himself, it’s extremely recognizable.
Peterson is the last person to say all x is better than all y. So destiny using that frame and attacking it is a strawman argument. All organizations and hierarchies require maintenance. Larger ones require more effort in that maintenance and effective leadership to survive. Otherwise they deteriorate and fall victim to free riders who exploit those conditions.
Instead of thinking about the argument he immediately thought of how small he felt and how his comeback should have been bigger, I mean “snappier”.
All of these people are on Adderall all the time.
Like all podcasters? He talked just as fast pre vyvanse fyi.
And that's a good thing!
Yes because you need drugs to use your brain...
Sarcasm, btw. Drugs make you dumber.
@@SineN0mine3 Don't you mean way more funny? The mental fk'd schizo's walking around screaming stuff no one can understand is so good. Best live show on earth.
Ok how tall is Destiny actually because in this he looks like a big 1st grader.
5'8"
I think Destiny is right when it comes to the logic that the size of something doesn’t intrinsically make something good or evil. But I think the thing that I imagine most libertarians care more about is if something becomes evil can you stop it. It’s why people are more scared of larger dogs than smaller dogs. It’s not that bigger. Dogs are more likely to be evil because that’s just not true. But if a Rottweiler tries to bite your arm off, it’s gonna be more successful than a Yorkshire terrier. When things are small, they’re easier to crush. It’s basically the logic of every battered person in existence. They’ve been abused once and so they view anything that could hurt them as naturally evil. This isn’t my belief by the way. I’m just trying to provide the best steel man that I can even though it seems like I’m judging them in the middle of doing so.
But the problem is that being easier to crush means it's easier to corrupt them. Smaller government is much easier to corrupt than larger. We saw this is the old west. Rich ranchers could buy the local government with very little money. Buying the FBI takes way more money.
@@russellward4624 you dont need to buy the entire thing when its so large, all you need is a select few key people within those large orgs.
people have been and always will be the weak link.
Bigger dogs are often more useful
@@russellward4624 Not really. There are a lot of small people who refuse to be corrupted. They may have no power, but the opposition's strength doesn't make them budge. They do get destroyed, but only because they're overpowered or outnumbered and refuse to wield.
That wasn't the argument though.
He was pointing out people with a particular political view have an aversion to large organizations. Not that big = bad. Pretty disingenuous by Destiny here.
this chair setup😅🙅🏼♂️🤣
drop the full episode lil bro
4:13 - "That's fine, but that's an Alex O'Connor argument, not Jordan Peterson argument". No, the only issue here is that you perverted Peterson's argument into absurd "if it's big, then it's bad", which is not what Peterson argued.
As always, a great conversation from alex
Never imagined reaching the end of the comments in 1 minute... did not realize I was this early.
1:34 tell that my wife. *dad laugh
I don't know what you guys dont get. Women are on average shorter then men and Destiny is a woman's name
*Black stripper woman's name.
It is also a possible strippers name
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The title of this video could also be : "Alex very politely exposes Destiny's cliche score-card style debate tactics." - OR - "Alex teaches Destiny how to engage in good faith".
Calm thoughts needed for all
Being a public intellectual has got to be exhausting.
Luckily not something Destiny has to worry about
How charitable of you
Why do you even have this guy on your channel??
Exactly. He's everywhere at this point, I'm tired of it. Like, he's on three Lex Fridman episodes😭
@@nathanaeldean he's such an idiot too. Interviewing idiots I can understand, reacting with idiots? Makes no sense
Where did you get that white shirt?
my two favorite content creators ❤️
paywalls kinda cringe
I can also make good arguments 2 months after a conversation 😂
he doesnt even make a good argument, he retardedly confuses peterson argument and battle a dumbed down argument 2 months later.
What a weird point to make. Can he only talk about it if he came on Alex's podcast right after the JP debate? You don't think he made these arguments on his own channel right after the debate?
When Jordan Peterson uses a world like giagantism, he’s really talking about the concept of the Tower of Babel in the Bible; that everyone comes together to form an institution that has a lot of power for the purpose of a utopian society. But his point is that the outcome of that is actually quite nightmarish, but this is his angle, it’s a very aesthetic argument.
Is this a demonstration of the practical effects used on the set of LOTR?
Isn't the Swiss guard in the Catholic church a military? It's just a much smaller military than it has been the past. Didn't that church tax people in the past when they controlled the various Papal states?
@@markadams7046 not to mention the indulgences and essentially leveraging of royals for their armies and mercenaries to expand the Holy Roman Empire.
Basically, expect to see that again if magically all our modern governments disappeared.
"Boundaries shift, new players step in, but power always finds a place to rest its head."
Nihilism will have to wait, new Alex O Connor just dropped
The big chair. That was a visual Capra gag in It's A Wonderful Life.
what on earth is this chair? 😂
Edited: I watched the complete episode and understand now. They were being playful in this conversation and this is just a small clip so it doesn’t cover the entire dynamic of the conversation.
I This is like a parent sitting down with a child and helping him walk through his thoughts and feelings and trying to make him feel better at the same time.
How exactly? Alex was asking destiny's position and destiny was answering.
You're simping too hard for one of them lol. It was a mutual conversation where both of them brought up valid disagreements with eachothers views.
Alex was trying to help destiny through his “cope” interpretation of Jordan’s point.
Jordan was obviously not arguing big = bad. Only a man desperate to rewrite history to win an argument could possibly have interpreted it like that.
@@PooeyBum11How is it a cope exactly? What did they say here that was inaccurate?
@@milantarbuk1039he willfully misinterpreted Petersons argument and then argued against that
Theres a sort of academic discussion to be had about gigantism and whatnot, but its not actually happening with right wingers. Time and time again, when its some social issue that they dont like suddenly having big government heavy-handedly interfere is a positive. On this point, steven is probably correct - most peoples positions arent derived from principles (regardless of political affiliation, but particularly glaring on the right with this issue).
Furthermore, just because gigantism may be cause for alarm its not an all or nothing situation. There are instances where you may need a large entity to act on a grand scale in a way free/independent individuals cannot. It is absolutely a matter of degrees and trafeoffs.
If you want to have an "academic" discussion about anything, you need to lose stupid terms like "right wingers."
@SaviorMoney-777 why? Right wingers the term for a right wing voters, which is the right wing of the political compass. That is Academically taught.
@@danielessex2162 Well first of all, "academia" in general, is a joke, and nothing more than an indoctrination into a cult in most cases at this point, and "right wing" is a term used to qualify, or discredit someone before even hearing what they have to say. You can say it doesn't for you, but it does for most libtards, who actually believe the Democratic Party is working in their interest, which they aren't.
@@SaviorMoney-777 A bit sensitive there? The term isnt ideal but it is decent shorthand, in the same way that left winger/leftie is. The left/right dichotomy is simplistic but does capture the rough bimodal distribution of people's stances on some issues.
With regard to JBP all the negative implications that you are reading into the term actually do apply, he may have technically been an academic but the vast majority of what he does is demagoguery and bluster. For one example no worthwhile academic would dismiss an entire well-founded field of study whilst equivocating on the definition of the word "environment" to the point of meaninglessness.
It’s evidence of your bias though. Many of the so called “right wingers” openly admitted during those conversations that if the death rate of Covid was something insane like 10% they would be in favour of mandates. You probably never heard that though because your side was too busy trying to censor and attack anyone for “wrong speak”
It’s not right wingers who become so dogmatic on these issues that conversations can’t happen. It was literally you establishment leftist sycophant types who wanted to censor and shut down conversation to the point it wasn’t possible to have a nuanced discussion.
You literally guys banned nuanced discussion. Maybe think about that before you blame the right for the lack of open and academic discussions.
Who won the Jordan v Destiny debate? What is the general consensus on this?
Jordan in mine
I came here to comment about the chairs, I see everyone has beaten me to it!
Destiny didn't listen to Peterson's argument... the whole point of Peterson's point is to mention that gigantism isn't inherently bad. Still, it can be bad and worth curtailing things like government because it can do conscription, tax and having a military..... how could he not understand that is because he doesn't want to understand him but dunk on him. He proved Peterson's sentiment of Desitny correct
That was clearly not Peterson's point
So you projected the will to get a dunk on someone and missed the whole point...
@@DDDarwin27 you tell me then, why did Peterson bring up taxation, ability to put you in jail, and ability to conscript you in military service as a differentiation from government and religion? Good luck…
@@RanEncounter maybe, tell me the point… or are you just posting nonsense?
@@BrianShh The original point literally was that organizations that are too large are bad because of the power and potential for corruption but when given the example of Catholic Church Peterson gave irrelevant points on taxation (the church did that too), the ability to put someone to jail (the church had that too or even worse with stoning and execution on the spot), and the ability to conscript you in military service (the crusades). All of these were irrelevant to the actual topic at hand.
Destiny is totally right that when he says that the organization has the capacity to do either large amounts of good, large amounts of bad or anything in between. It is more about the way the organization is structured. You cannot just make a huge generalization like Peterson did.
I know Peterson very much likes his narratives, over simplifications and stories, but we have to actually look at the specifics and facts of the case to come to an accurate conclusion.
i wish i could pay attention to anything in this video; but destiny being about 3’5 in that chair 💀
also the catholic church cannot "sentence you to hell"... it doesn't work that way. Even if excommunicated. If anyone reads the catechism of the catholic church they will know this.
I had to play Destiny on 0.75 speed
Destiny is really good at debating guys that aren't in the room. Good for him.
Gigantism doesn't just mean "big".
Elaborate numbnuts
Kinda does though
@@milantarbuk1039 it doesn’t, but feel free to keep up the straw man 👍
@@0xiahWhat does it mean then?
@@milantarbuk1039🤦♂️ no it doesn't, even in medical terms it doesn't refer to someone who is simply big.
THEY CANT TAX YOU!?!?!
Laughs in German
Is that Lil Dicky? Woah
Destiny's problem is that he can't say "I'm wrong" or "you're right." He's hard wired to overwhelm anyone he's talking to with x10 emotional rants about how he's right and the other is wrong. I don't take him seriously and I wish podcasters and the like didn't either. He IS smart AND logical, don't get me wrong, but it's his tactics that are so asinine and I wish people would understand this and move on from having him in EVERY conversation like, let's hear from a better adjusted adult next time and not this ridiculous gnome who can't even brush his hair.
He says "but I could be wrong" very often, and he has always admitted it when he is wrong on something on stream. The only reason you have this position on Destiny is because you never watched his stream for longer than 5 minutes. Your accusation is quite literally completely false.
Alex, your interpretation is correct. Destiny is stuck on this one. He’ll work it out eventually. I think his ego is hurting him on this topic a bit. The same when Peterson said Covid vaccines aren’t vaccines. Technically speaking (and I mean in a genuinely technical sense) the Covid vaccines are gene therapies. You can read into the categorization of vaccine being applied to skip red tape.
Even without that though, it’s rather intuitive to understand how a vaccine works vs a gene therapy. If the technology needs to use your cells to create its very own viral cell component by way of rna, then it’s not the same as simply injecting dead virons/virus components/etc.
The comment above is so wrong about reality, it may bend space time. Because I have been staring at it for a minute that from my perspective felt like a week.
How can something be gene therapy that never enters the cell nucleus?
How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How? How?
Larger organizations can often be problematic because the centralization of power and decision-making means that those making decisions are disconnected from the consequences and lack essential information and intelligence. Additionally, it increases the risk of corruption since fewer people are making high-stakes decisions and are more susceptible to bribes or other incentives.
Why do this video about a 3 month old debate now?
Destiny x Alex O'Connor is hands down my favorite collab! Would love to see more collaborations with him! Much love
Destiny is a fool.
Yeah but he's controversial and brings views which is nice when you got something to sell.
Destiny is just completely strawmanning the big government criticism here, and strawmanning Peterson's point
3:16 I thought the video was speeding up, even Alex was speaking faster
Sounds like this dude is using a lot of words to defend the fact that he got taken to school by Jordan with one sentence.
dude literally reduced peterson's argument to: if it's big its automatically bad, and if it's small, it's automatically good; when that was not his argument at all. destiny is something else man. i can't stand this ape. dude is either braindead or possessed by his ego
1:34 "I don't think that being large or small has the characteristic of being good or bad"
Destiny, 2024
😂
Which logically follows. If there's a large guy with a massive frame who is your normal everyday person is he more bad necessarily than a smaller normal dude ?
Large and small are not characteristics for good or bad. They are characterisitics for the amount if a particular entity is god or bad.
When my girlfriend says that size matters: 1:27.
Destiny is so focused on logical fallacies that the point flies over his head
Small is not automatically good and big is not automatically bad. The only thing that is likely is that big is rich and influential and small is not
The church can't tax? Y'all haven't ever heard of mandatory tithing before? I know people who are sufficiently cowed by their church that they have an automatic deduction of 10% of their after-tax income to go directly to their church.
Plus, it's only been a couple of decades since the Catholic church lost its administrative control over Quebec, in Canada, and they were the local tax collectors.
And, yes, giant does not automatically mean bad just as small scale isn't defacto virtuous.
Don't for a minute think Alex didn't plan everything to do with that chair... Machiavellian brilliance.