Destiny on Jordan Peterson, Voting, and Political Principles
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
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- VIDEO NOTES
Steven Bonnell II is a popular American political streamer known online as Destiny.
- LINKS
Destiny: @destiny
- TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Why Destiny Got Banned From Twitch
10:16 Should Social Platforms Be Liable for What People Post?
19:00 Being Governed By the Popular Vote
31:55 The Ethics of Voting
42:27 Debating Jordan Peterson
53:35 Does Anyone Have Political Principles?
1:03:22 Legal and Moral Principles
1:16:06 Just Stop Oil's Radical Action
1:29:31 Why Just Stop Oil Won't Turn Violent
1:49:16 The Last Time Destiny Changed His Mind
2:03:32 Dissecting Jordan Peterson's Debating Style
- CONNECT
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The Internet should be 100% freedom of speech
You are wrong about the fact that Peterson has no problem giving a short answer to the definition of woman. He clearly stated that this is an incredibly complicated question I think (in a Convo with Matt Walsh)
you are a gay little youtube shill or you would talk to people with opinions that matter. go debate nick fuentes, or anyone who is serious about the JQ. no, instead you talk to wastes of air like destiny. I shit on people like you. fake ass nggas.
Why do you look like you’ve got 5X less testosterone than all males from human history? You make the west look so weak.
What does ground news do about truth? If Trump gets 50% of people to believe the moon is made of cheese, would ground news start to say that NASA papers have a left wing bias?
Destiny has aged spectacularly well considering the fact that his child was already performing concerts in the 90s.
Finally someone making new joke
Underrated
Holy shit new joke
@@ashspeaks1i dont get the joke 😢 what
@@annieyesiam2758a band callled Destiny’s child that formed in the 1990’s
Joe Rogan calls him a Wikipedia warrior, but Terrence Howard a genius lmao
Well Joe likes controversial figures and people who think differently . Destiny being a Wikipedia warrior is just a insignificant smug .
@@RupeshKumar-ni1vd Or in other words "which person would my fanbase of υnedυcated manchildren like the most". quite smart.
@@noterrormanagementif your idea of "educated" means using Wikipedia, well we'll just leave it there.
@@curiositycloset2359 Oh he said that reading a few Wikipedia articles makes someone educated? He said that? That's something he actually said and it isn't something you just made up?
Why don't you engage with the meat of the argument? Joe platforms and praises people who likely have actual brain damage. Joe doesn't seem to like people who think carefully about anything. Why don't you address that?
Lol man children. Girl just admit you're bitter 😂 Destiny is genuinely disabled mentally, and that's your rock? Bub.... He doesn't think, he "feels" shit. He doesn't have an ounce of intelligence, that actually means anything. I genuinely tried to give this guy a fair shake. I couldn't stand 5 minutes of his incessant ranting, without facts. Even the way he talks, he can't help but let his leftist, feable mind, guide him to his opinion.
You're every reason why true democracy, is a cancer.
Also, since you're so superior, how about you indulge all of us in your educational experience. Would love to see a university link to your master's degree. How about a successful business? Lobbying group that is still active? Anything?
Don't throw stones darlin. Your walls are crumbling. @@noterrormanagement
Destiny looks like if Deadpool got beheaded and now he's sitting in a chair waiting for his body to grow back to adult size.
I love you guys so much, this one made my day 😭😭😭
These comments killin me, why is that chair so fucking tiny 😭😭
He a court jester
I was only hearing it, at 1:45:27 is when I realized that Alex looks like he's talking to a child omg
What an intellectually stimulating comment. 🤨
The discussion about the importance of voting only really framed it in a large-scale way, like voting for presidencies. But folks need to remember that local elections are often of incredible impact to your day-to-day and sometimes only a few hundred people are voting on the issue. Your vote has a much larger proportional impact on local elections, which are arguably of larger consequence.
Very true. Local elections are not talked about nearly enough.
Your vote has less sway over the results of a national election, but those results are of greater consequence.
Local elections are less consequential, but in some cases, you and your friends could get together and flip the election.
and many people forget….Gore lost to Bush because of 537 votes in Florida
These two tools don't even know what Peterson was trying to say. Yet they think their formulating a retort against it? Couple of tards
@@sammyismuff It depends on what you mean by local elections. Governor and city council and mayoral elections can have a huge impact on things like HOUSING and transportation. You can vote for certain judges which might be the difference between a bunch of rec drug users spending a lot of time in jails (costing taxpayers a ton of money in the process) vs spending that time with their spouse and kids. You might be able to vote for the local sheriff which could be the difference between a lot of poor people getting their stuff stolen during a traffic stop and being able to pay their monthly rent (some of them become homeless as a consequence). And there are even less prioritized institutions which have local elections that can be very important like ones related to schooling, which is important to everyone whether the youth is indoctrinated or taught proper critical thinking skills and self improvement skills etc.
It's not the president or even senators or congressmen who are responsible for how many homeless people there are, or how many people OD, or how many food deserts there are, how bad the minimum wage laws or work safety laws might be, or how often the power goes out when the weather is bad. They can pass things to put a bandage on the problem but a lot of problems come from these more local institutions not prioritizing the majority of their people. State's rights can be good and it can be bad, people have to vote to make it good.
Putting Destiny in that chair is blatant sabotage.
His head to shoulders ratio is so quack. LUL
Heh, I think it is more the fault of Destiny's bad posture. Hopefully he works on that.
He looks like a tiny little person. I was only listening to this. Not watching. But i looked at the comments and had to look when ibsaw thiam omg ita hilarious😂😂
@@sathrielsatanson Bro, try sitting with perfect posture in a chair like that without looking like an anxious autist. They're actual videographical sabotage, you either lean forward and perch on the outer rim like a pigeon, or you melt into the oversized seat of the chair like a slovenly gnome.
Big head... Big brains 🧠 But all things have a price
destiny doesn't look very gigantism here
that camera angle plus 46:52 out of context... GOLD
@@ludvig5597LOL 😂
@@ludvig5597😂
30:38
@@benauxo 🤐
This conversation kind of boils down to "the average person isn't actually engaging in complex thought"
Destiny has nothing more really to say. He thinks because he has money and time that makes him a critical thinker. I dont understand how anybody can be convinced by the intellectual jerking off of being a rational-scientific debate bro.
@@felixmuller9672 I can understand not liking him but thinking he is stupid is a self report
@@Scorned where did i state that?
@@felixmuller9672 please articulate your position further with examples and why Destiny is wrong.
@@yupimawesome hes wrong and gay actually
Alex O’Conners impression of Peterson had me dying, when he did the hands thing lol
the hands were such a good detail
Timestamp?
@@AdvancedSquadLeaderI’d start at 2:03:50
Destiny's style went from NEET gamer to GTA Vice City character
He lives in Miami after all
Gta vice city character is hilarious
Miami Steve
Destiny always seemed to me like more of a Captain America before the serum, kind of guy.
He's Cuban
took 73 episodes for alex to finally have a black woman on, think about that...
Destiny is a womans name remember that
Glad he's being inclusive to the fellow lesbian activists
these will never be funny
@@egoncholakianfan I find it funny
@@JackBurtonsHaulageCono one cares
2:04:50 Seeing Alex imitate JBP's mannerisms when he starts tweakin is one of the most funny things i've seen this year lol
Really!!?? Humm, you need to get out more.
@@chrism6257 Nah i'm good.
@@chrism6257 If he went outside, he would exposed to all the women who would pounce upon his adonis physique. It's dangerous for him to go outside, because he might drown in all of the female nether fluids.
@@chrism6257maybe you need to get in more 😤
“Everything you do in life will be insignificant, but it’s important that you do it”
-Gandhi
The entire conversation around voting had me thinking of this. Destiny preaching the Gandhi message
Omg, why did Alex gave him such a little chair, looks ridiculous 😭
The chair isn't little, if you look at the seat levels from the ground, they are the same height, only the chair backs are different heights. Destiny is 5'8 and Alex is... tall, I don't know how much exactly but probably around 6'2.
Notice the size of Alex's chair. Power move.
The missing back of the chair really does make Destiny look ridiculous. That and he stupid hair do
Why does Destiny’s torso look so small but his head looks so big in proportion?
@@Vitamin.Z A smart man in a small body
This conversation was SUCH a treat. I dont think I've laughed on a philosophy podcast as much as today. I like when you nad steven talk. Feels like two differently backgrounded friends just exploring
you're very easily treated
@@murkartik thank you
“Exploring” 🙄 they just like hearing themselves talk
Why are you laughing tho? Are you ok?
@@ParkerBG Have you never had an actual conversation before?
I just found out that Jordan Peterson was asked "What is a woman" once, and his answer was "Marry one and find out"
lmaoo that is a hilarious response. When you are married to women you end up finding the most intimate things about them that you might not as parent or siblings or friends.
Oh yeah I forgot that. Ironically despite the chatter around the boilerplate answer he might give, Destiny uploaded a video where he discusses what this is actually a better answer than the shit he's talking about in this conversation. Perhaps he had forgotten. Lol
@@confounded_feline Source please?
@@noorzanayasmin7806it's from the what is a woman documentary with matt Walsh. If you do Jordan peterson what is a woman. It should be the top result.
@@JohnDavidSullivan okay thanks
2:04:12 is genuinely so hilarious -- The rest of the conversation was quite edifying too. Thank you!
*Insert strong judgmental evaluation of video before I could possibly have seen the video.*
unbelievably true
ACTUALLY, bononilly supports the genocide of Terran's and promotes military tactics such as 'retard baiting'. I heard so on tiktoks so he is wrong in this video, spamming marines takes real skill.
i think it's not a totally unfair reaction given that destiny is a genocidal freak
@@tylerwilliam97 And you a terrorist apologetic. See, not only two, everyone can play that game.
@@tylerwilliam97says who?
25:43
- It cænt be this way
- You mean it c𝒂n't?
- It cænt be the case
- That's interesting. So it's not "it c𝒂n't"?
🤣
The beauty of language
Aluminum can't be the best way to hold methane
No no no, you’re getting it wrong. It’s “it Kant be this way”
Eh, "tomayto"/"tomahto"
Its Alex's only flaw. Hes br*tish 🤢
2:13:40 as a physics undergraduate, I honestly dismiss this 'objects don't actually touch' point by asking 'what do you mean by touch', ironically enough.
yeah its a terrible analogy by alex, we have reductive models to provide insights into complex phenomena. A quantum physicist would be able to explain why approximating a moving cow as a sphere is helpful while also being able to explain what makes the model wrong.
@michaelc.5327 Some people say alcohol's a drug. It's not a drug; it's a drink.
@@tcritt Alcohol is a disinhibitor, depending on the amount it can make you potentially numb like certain drugs, but it's main characteristics is that you don't care about consequences of your actions ...
but it's pretty clear the question that would be asked by 99.99% would be regarding the edge of the object having exactly 0 distance to the other objects edge, however deep we can define edge and object?
@@valkiyri I'm quoting a comedy sketch, you utterly boring individual.
Australian here. Compulsory voting reinforces the idea that every vote counts and is why you are lawfully obligated to do so.
It makes no sense one minute to say that compulsory voting is bad and the next go on to talk about how it's much better for everyone to vote.
Also Aussie, and Alex even mentions that you can do a donkey vote. People that truly don't care don't have to weigh in, they can just put in an empty slip
Your point is like saying we should have compulsory mandates for everyone to have a job. Sure, we believe that everyone having a job would benefit society, but we shouldn’t make getting a job compulsory
Should all things that are better for people to do be compulsory?
@@RayWilliamJohnson95Paying taxes are compulsory. They are meant to serve the community and thw common good. Much like more people voting would.
@@blahblahbag8715no. only voting. and paying taxes.
My favorite response that I heard to what would convince you that God is real came from Matt Dillahunty when he said “I don’t know, but if God is real, he would know and if it was important for me to know him, he’d know how to convince me he’s real”
that doesn't address the problem of the question though no? Wasn't the purpose of that thought experiment to check how biased your thinking is on the subject, if you couldn't possibly think of a way god could change your mind, then something is clearly wrong. The question wasn't whether or not god could change your mind, because that's obvious, if god existed, your mind could just be changed through will alone if god wanted it to be.
@@ragegaze3482 the answer to the question is literally the first line "i dont know"
@@ragegaze3482 Yeah that's true, it just works for me on a personal level when dealing with friends and family. I think the Boghossian method they discussed is a pretty good way to weed out bias and I could think of arguments that could move me somewhat to the other side, but I could always argue myself back again due to having arrived at my personal bias through years of argumentation.
@@ragegaze3482 That may have been the purpose of the thought experiment but if it was it totally fails. If someone ask you what would convince you that 2 plus 2 equals 3 and you could not possibly think of something then that is not evidence of bias its just evidence that you are intellectually incapable of coming up with a way to prove something so absurd. The actual purpose of the thought experiment is an attempt to make you give an argument for the existence of god so the apologist does not have to.
Seems like a delusional self important ass thought that one up
Peterson: "What do you mean by God? What do you mean by mean? Answering these questions would be very complicated"
Also Peterson: *Proceeds to make strong assertions about anything when it suits him*
@@sunflare8798 It's ok if you don't understand him! Don't act like you get it.
@@emanuelephrem4307Why would anyone listen to a shallow druggie pop psychologist who couldn't even control his own life?
Yes because transgenderism has been known for 2 thousand year followed by billions of people just like god! You are such a tool.
@@emanuelephrem4307but he does do this. Claims things are really too complicated to understand and then claims he understands something like vaccinations and climate change.
I miss the days when the comments were filled with genuinely thoughtful and funny insights, rather than the same old recycled jokes from pseudo-intellectuals.
Bro is not dodging the Peter Dinklage comparisons now
Watching these two is pure joy.
It’s like Superman and Batman.
If Superman was a philosophy nerd and Batman was woman’s name.
Catwoman more like it. Looking sexy in the latex. Puuuurfectiny
Destiny is a name for a political streamer
Generally an uninformed or misinformed streamer, depending on what BS he’s rationalizing for, that day… He seems a bit more polite and rational than usual here, talking with Alex though. Usually he’s just confidently spouting his opinions as fact, using some Wikipedia article it seems like he skimmed over that day to “prepare” for the debate.. I’ve usually only seen him debate conservatives he has a serious beef with though, where it seems like his goal is just to contradict everything the other person says regardless of what’s true or not. I haven’t watch a ton of his stiff though.
@@aalvarez2914give an example of when he’s intentionally being wrong just to contradict his opponent
@@aalvarez2914scizopost of the day! Congrats! You disagree w someone on the internet!
@@aalvarez2914give an example where his supposed reliance on Wikipedia has actually cost him in a conversation, or an example where he’s clearly uninformed within a conversation
@@aalvarez2914I honestly don’t know how in good faith you can completely destroy his character and worth and then add at the bottom “but I haven’t watched a ton of his stuff”. It’s clear you haven’t, nobody who has would come away from his conversations genuinely believing this. Anybody who has engaged with him knows that he doesn’t just skim through a Wikipedia article, or is purposefully a contrarian. It’s just so so so bad faith
Funny JP say they can't tax, no military and can't conscript... but they did all of these things historically.
And they literally were the state in the case of The Papal State, occupying Rome and some surrounding towns for centuries. Good point.
I wonder what percentage of Catholics would volunteer for an army if the Pope called for it.
And how is the political make-up of governments that have not existed for hundreds of years in a different part of the world relevant to the current situation? They are talking about the current level of scrutiny one should have NOW. I don't get the sense that JP even supports theocracy on any level.
@@TheSuperXNova
Am I right in assuming that you think that our governmental structure is so far removed from what occurred in the middle ages that biases about gigantic entities isn't applicable?
And the people who advocate for the authority of the Catholic Church quite literally believe that they can determine one's eternal fate in the afterlife, making force and taxation feel microscopic in comparison.
I appreciate this more lighthearted and less focused talk on a variety of topics for Steven, i feel hes been through a lot of hard debates recently and this was probably refreshing. Keep those more laser podcasts coming though please Alex, thats why im here. No one disects the truth like you do
Alex's Jordan Peterson impression😂😂
Someone please time stamp this cuz I missed it.
Please, somebody time-stamp it
@@absolutenothing7094 2:04:20 He has to have done this a lot to be that good at it.
I'm sure this comment section will be wonderful.
Just like your mom's 🐈 is
Reading youtube comments is one of the fastest ways to go insane, why am I here...
I literally scrolled 10 comments and realized it's such a waste of time. There is nothing intellectual here
Think again
@@ronpudding9598 just like your mom
the only reason i clicked this video was because so many people posted pictures of destiny in a tiny chair and I thought "this can't be true. these pictures must me edited". Nope, tiny chair is real
So is his def0rmed, ET physique 😂.
@@invincible8115 touch grass if your think an average guy is deformed. the internet isn't doing you any good
Loved this conversation, it just got better and better, wasn’t bored at any point ❤️
To be honest, considering Alex's last discussion with Destiny on ethics I really didn't think I would be agreeing this often with Destiny as I did.
What did you disagree with destiny in the ethics discussion? I felt he did pretty well there
@@lordmew5 the vegan stuff was pretty much on alex's side, the idea that you can torture an animal simply because you own it because its the only way to justify you eating meat, even steven would agree that it would give him some kind of disgust or feeling of wrongess to see people doing those things.
@@Kan-ovaI'm pretty sure Destiny was just biting the bullet and trying to maintain consistency and doesn't actually feel that way about animals
@@KkernelSanders whatever the case may be, i dont think destiny argued that point well.
@@KkernelSanders vegan gains fuming right now
Finally more female representation on the channel. Its nice to see a strong woman with a womans name.
Kinda hard to see the world as it is when Feminine neuroticism guides your every move. Furthermore, becoming a "good debater" will be the opposite of good if truth is what you seek. Dont become your own echo chamber. Dont become a sophist.
misgendering cis people as a joke = funny and lighthearted
misgendering trans people as a joke = bigoted
A strong independent black woman for that matter. 💅
@@Elias2293I genuinely can’t tell if you’re playing along with the bit or if you’re being serious lol
@@W333L clean up your room first and you ll be able to tell ma boy
Inconsistency near the end. They assume Peterson would answer "what is a woman?" with "adult human female", but Destiny recently reacted to a clip of Person answering "marry one and find out". Destiny even said it was the best answer.
Marry one and find out is really a non answer since you're telling the person to figure it out themselves. Destiny probably agreed with the answer in a comedic sense as in "the best answer is to just not engage with the question because it's pointless to try to convince people" or something along those lines. This was probably done for comedic effect rather than his actual stance on the issue (Just like peterson answer was also just for comedic effect, I am sure there are plenty of clips of him answering the questions seriously).
Your Peterson impression near the end was hilarious. I don't know if you were doing the hand gestures intentionally 😂
That is arguably the most devious angle you could put on someone. Poor Destiny - he looks like a smurf
It’s the back-of-a-spoon lens.
I think he could care less while he's counting his millions
@@Theactivepsychosyou mean convex?
@@sethivaltas619 nope, I mean back-of-a-spoon lens. It’s a made up lens that makes you look like you’re looking in the back of a spoon. It’s is convex but specifically like the back of a spoon with is much more distorted than a simple convex. But you kind of ruined it now so I take it back. You forced my hand…
…girls name.
@@Theactivepsychos wouldn’t a distorted convex lens still be convex though? Like whaaat bro
Edit: don’t forget *strong black woman* as well lol
Great discussion. I appreciate the work that both of you do.
Also, Billy the Blue Ranger called. He wants his belt back.
what work does destiny do aside from encouraging the israeli genocide of gaza and badly defending israel with the wikipedia articles he reads during his "debates"
@tylerwilliam97 well, it seems you have seen some of Destiny's arguments, done some research to come to your own conclusions, and are willing to expound them publicly. It's not the work Destiny intended to do, but I imagine you feel it has value
@@tylerwilliam97he has never encouraged the Israeli genocide of Gaza. The only thing I’ve heard him say is that what Israel is doing is not a genocide, because if killing the whole population was their goal they would’ve easily done it by now. Genocide is an active attempt to eradicate a people, and Destiny doesn’t see enough evidence that shows Israel’s goal is to kill all palestinians.
I can’t speak on how good or bad his defense of Israel is because I don’t know enough about the conflict to qualify any opinions I have. (Something tells me you don’t either if you are this loose with your judgements on Destiny)
But that all aside, Destiny’s done some great work speaking out against the red pill/manosphere spaces and showing how they’re wrong in almost every measurable way. He’s done a good job at combating conservatives and their talking points, showing how inconsistent their beliefs can be. These are just a few quick examples but the guy isn’t some raging dipshit like you seem to think.
@@LordGrantius that’s an interesting perspective to look through. Nicely done👌
@@tylerwilliam97 He's a vital advocate for American democracy in a landscape that is increasingly trending towards autocracy
always fun to listen to both
I think Alex gave Destiny the smaller chair so it didn't look like there was a huge size difference between the two in the single shots, but that only works when you don't cut to a wide shot where we can clearly see that Destiny could use a thimble for a hat.
Is Destiny turning into Alex or Alex turning into Destiny in the thumbnail picture?
Alex is so respectful throughout the entire conversation. Very cool!
Yes how he sat through all Destiny’s BS is unbelievably resilient.
@@edl4374 Name the BS
@@steoderfragt1821 friend! I see nothing wrong with you inherently, but maybe try and branch out from destiny. watch more Penguinz0 or Wendigoon, stuff thats more apolitical, if you're really feeling excited today try out noah samsen or hasan. Sure destiny is a fine lad, but he has harmful ideas and creates a community that happily leads along with it, but also im a dummy on the internet so you don't have to listen to me.
@@edl4374 Found the bullshitter in the comments. Great job buddy. Now leave and troll on your peoples pages. Like The fallen state with JLP. Should fit right around you and your IQ.
@@steoderfragt1821 the bs starts at the beginning of the video and goes all the way up to the end. 😂
Great stuff, one of my favorite conversation combos, love you both
Alex, consider adding an introduction to your podcasts. It’s a bit jarring to jump right into a lengthy discussion and it would be nice to hear some background info on each guest.
Yeah I had to google who that guy is on Wikipedia first.
Just heard the first couple minutes, and I think calling anyone subhuman is fair cause to be banned for hate speech. I don't think that policy should change. It's fine to advice to ignore someone you think has horrendous opinions or behavior, but calling someone subhuman is what dictators and autocrats do, and I don't think it creates a healthy conversation. Maybe if the rhetorical opponents had a history of calling others subhuman for their opinions (maybe they do in this case) and this was a ironic retort, there could be a case for it, like a 'turning their arguments on them' sort of thing, but in general, I am fine with banning this, on both sides.
By healthy conversation, I mean even among your own group. It may very possible be that there is no current option for a healthy conversation with your opponents, but just for your own sake and the sake of the people that agree with you and the quality of your intra-group conversation, I think it's better to keep a better level of conversation.
2:11:50 I absolutely love Alex‘ analogy here. I never thought Peterson was trying to obfuscate things unnecessarily; quite the opposite. Once you pushed through his initial „resistance“, the conversation led to much more meaningful and deep insights than if he just answered „Yes, I do think it happened historically“.
I found it to be a bad defense. No respectable quantum physicist would have difficulty explaining an interaction to a child. They can provide a framework that is as understandable as 'balls bouncing' while pointing out exactly that there are complications like 'the ball doesn't quite touch'. Every single physics textbook in the history of the world provided 'approximate a cow as a sphere' without obfuscating that the cow is not actually a sphere. Whether Peterson was trying to obfuscate, I don't take a position on, I just think Alex's defense analogy was pretty silly. In fact physicists would agree on the majority that reductive models are helpful rather than harmful for explaining complex phenomena.
Regardless of the analogy i think Alex navigated his JP conversation very well. He didn't see him coming in with bad faith. Got him to explain why he doesn't answer straight and then proceeded to answer it according to his own epistemology and in a straight forward manner.
@@michaelc.5327 But Jordan Peterson wasn‘t speaking to a child. He was engaged in an intellectual conversation; why would he reduce his position to a simple version thereof?
@@SergiusGBE One can have the perspective or knowlege of a child without being a child in specific niche areas. for instance I could ask you what the Holy Roman Empire is. Let's also say you don't know but you want or need to learn.
Now i could instantly go into detail about its formation, Charlemaigne, the relationship with the papacy and so on, but if you didn't know about charlemaigne, the papacy or geopolitics of middle ages europe its probably not going to help you. So instead I could give a very reductionist, but mostly true, statement that it was a loose german coalition from the middle ages to the 19th century where small individual german states within the empire had high degrees of autonomy, but still pledged to help each other in times of war, and had to pledge allegiance to an emperor.
You now have a very rough idea of what it is, and a foundation for further learning should the want or need arise. This is essentially the same as the analogy in physics for children, but of course applied to a different scenario, which most adults wouldn't know about.
Another great episode, love the energy of your conversations with Steven. Ethics and Politics, what next?
Alex tries to steelman is opponents arguments while Destiny takes them at face value. Example: Jordan Peterson and Gigantism.
Jordan Peterson was actually getting at something important, but his argument wasn't completely developed yet. Destiny completely shut him down because of this... Alex, on the other hand, helps Peterson develop the argument by recognizing what Peterson is trying to get at, even though the presented argument isn't fully developed. This is why some people don't like Destiny... He doesn't try to see the value in what his opponents are saying.
This is my first time hearing of and listening to destiny. I can’t really put my finger on why I find him somewhat off-putting. Calling anyone subhuman is shitty and disgusting, but there’s something more to it than just that.
Personally, JP has poisoned the intellectual well so much I am relieved when someone cuts off his word vomit. I used to have a very good opinion on JP until he started screeching about pronouns and went full grift.
Does JP have some good ideas sometimes? Probably, but it’s so wrapped in tired rhetoric that I can’t take him seriously anymore.
I’m not a destiny fan much at all, but at least he answers a question when he is asked and doesn’t need a ton of time to break a question down and debate the origin of each word when the topic is so far from that.
Very surprised this comments section is this tame compared to the one where Alex posted that the video is coming. Bunch of hate comments on that one for no good reason.
Mostly real fans here now, come back in a few days for your dose of hate lol.
Their comments were literally about how they were going to skip this video….because they weren’t interested in listening to Destiny….
❤
Most of it wasn't hate, just people being critical.
Haters take longer to show up. Come back in a week.
"No good reason," lol
been waiting for this collab.
You know Alex has interviewed Destiny before right?
@@stevesmith4901 Nobody on RUclips generally knows anything. Which s why we are on RUclips.
@@kevinjohnson1427i don’t know if I agree, but you certainly got me to cackle
Bizarre to see this guy appear somewhat reasonable in this interview, and then read the utter psychopathic statements he makes on Twitter...
He has always been extreme. He only controls himself when he is interviewed or dealing with important people. Jordan Peterson debate: stayed cool on stage, afterwards on his own channel started bashing JP like crazy. People who only see him on other channels have better view of him than they would otherwise.
@@user-pi4qo3zc2e Sounds like a massive coward. Unsurprising.
@@Novarcharesk mhh i dont think so realy. its more opportunism. its seems he has little problem being very direct and confrontational with people if he sees fit.
@@mattis1389 Yeah, like a coward picks and chooses when to show themselves honestly, or put a mask on.
@user-pi4qo3zc2e You have clearly never watched any of the thousands of hours of hos own content that's available on his channel or you would make such a silly statement as this.
Way to go getting Destiny on the podcast Alex!! Along my favorite content is when the two of you interact. 🎉
Two people I always enjoy watching discuss issues. Keep up the great work guys 👍
Here I was, watching this, thinking that Destiny is kind of a reasonable guy... And now, HOLY SHIT!
Enjoyed this chat…thank you.
Holy shit I loved this conversation between you two. Especially when it came into really digging into principles and how there really is deeper things in question than said broad principle, like how you two brought it up it also largely becomes about what that principle is applying to often even more so than the broad principle itself.
Great food for thought here a lot of which I'm probably going to be thinking about for a long time to come and actively applying to my way of thinking. Thank you for this discussion it was fantastic.
"When balls touch each other why do they move in the same direction" - Alex O'Connor, 2024
That depends on the elasticity of the collision. So, logically, (in scenarios a)… ***
That's the guy from Vaush
Lmao
Alex and Steven look like brothers who constantly fought as children and now begrudgingly have polite conversations over the holidays.
This was a fantastic watch. Thank you for the video :)
To be honest, I strongly believe that Destiny is definitely one of the political streamers in the world.
But what do you mean by one? and of? and political? and streamers? and world?
Ah - very astute of you my dearest jappachronicler. how did we not see this until now, sure one of the streamers in time. Truly.
Truly. Truly one of the streamers in the world. One amongst many.
@@Vitamin.ZMany? There's only 3
@@franklingoodwin there’s only 3 streamers in the world?
2:04:51 Alex even did the facial expressions and hand movements. I'm dying.
Enriching conversation! I will hold only one principle from now on: watching Alex‘ podcast every time it comes out, even if it means the world has to end ;)
Active counter on how many times Destiny made me check if I was in 1.25x speed: 3
The voting problem is one of emergence, not a paradox
people don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of emergence on basically every level
Its neither voting is just logical lets say there's a 1/100,000,000 chance that your vote was the deciding one then if yours wins you get 4 years where 300,000,000 people are ruled by better laws for 4 years this seems like a pretty good deal to me
@@connorgaming2313 First of all, if you are talking about the United States, then unless you live in a swing state, the odds that your vote will decide the election are more like 1 in 100 trillion. Second of all, even if you do live in a swing state, the odds that the election will turn on one vote is still far less than 1 in 100 million. Third, this calculus only makes sense for a utilitarian. Fourth, you need to take account how much better the laws would be. If they marginally improve the lives of a handful of people, obviously it's illogical to go out and vote on the 1 in less than 100 million chance it will make a difference. Fifth, you need to take into account uncertainty. How certain are you that this election will actually make the difference you think it will make?
Depending on where you are, there's not even any chance at all. Not 1 in X. Literally 0.
We could have every vote be worth an equal amount (1 in 100 million) by doing sortition (1 random persons vote is selected).
But you're wrong about the swing state part. Mathematically, if the election is close (it is in 2016, 2020, 2024) there must be a state where a voter has more than a 1 in 100 million chance of swinging the election
I love the way both of these humans speak. Whether how they speak to each other, what they talk about, or how they unpack ideas. Just beautiful ideation. Good faith at its core.
This grew incredibly more frustrating as they were unable to admit of any principles that weren't absolute. I get that that's standard in the US, but other countries like France have rights or principles that need to be balanced against each other, which seems so much more sensible way to judge things. For example, you have a right to free speech, but that runs into somebody else's right to not be lied about. You have a right to swing your fist, it ends at somebody else's face. Many rights are contraposed to other people's rights, and if you view any of them as absolute, it will end in absurdity.
Once you get away from the fact that a right needs to be absolute to exist, then we can have more productive discussions. But it sounds like they only made it maybe halfway there.
Great discussion, really enjoyed it and really enjoyed you touching on and analyzing other debates you were both involved in.
Amazing conversation!
2:19:10
What? How is it a tautology? Only normies would give that circular definition.
How is it so absurd?
Adult human female
Adult= finished physiological maturation
Human= homo sapien [or whatever biological term you want; Bipedal great ape, etc.]
Female= an organism that produces immobile gametes
Peterson does not give this answer btw. He gives his “your interaction with others determines your identity” type of answer, and I think he throws in the “you have biological underpinnings that direct your behavior” but he is very heavy on the relationship aspect of these types of labels.
It's because they subscribe to this quasi-academic, nebulous, post modern, nothing can truly be defined, world view that 95% of normal grass touching people don't care to interact with. It's the same stupid shit as "wElL wHaT iS a ChAiR?!?!" Sure I get the thought experiment, a horse has 4 legs and you can sit on it, but I asked you to grab a chair from the next room to add to this table. It's so tiresome and pedantic at this point.
This is nonsense.
People reach maturity at different ages and times. If by "physiological maturation" you mean finished puberty then by this definition there are 13-year-olds you'd classify as an adult. Not to mention that there are drugs available that can either speed or halt this process.
"Homo Sapiens" is our genus, there have been many Homo Sapiens that we do not consider human.
By your definition of female a woman who has reached menopause is no longer a woman as they no longer produce "immobile gametes"
Stop trying to to prescriptively define these things, there are always details that make it seem silly.
I think a lot of the beginning discussion would pair very well with a guest that is familiar with the work of the French Catholic philosopher, Rene Girard. It would be cool to have a Girardian here. If possible, Paul Dumouchel would be an excellent guest because of his book, The Barren Sacrifice
Great conversation - well done both of you.
This was a great conversation to see what Destiny is actually about, great conversation
Been waiting for this one.
Loved this!
Destiny is so interesting
As interesting as the back of a wall
great talk
When a company gets large enough it needs to be subject to additional regulation.
The average person has no patience for nuance
Such an entertaining convo!
surprised I've been listening to this for as long as I have - I've watched a few videos / interviews with both, but hearing them discuss things together, I find myself agreeing with more than I previously did (Destiny especially really goes into more detail on thoughts in this one.) I disagree with some (actually, many) points, I'm a liberty absolutist I guess, and more of an individualist with voluntary community, but overall I think both of you are honest, intelligent and genuinely good hearted young men that just want to try to figure out how to best help 'society' and 'government' work. Really enjoying this - thanks for putting it on youtube.
I really would like to see more monologue videos by Alex.
Personally it was like hearing Alex talk about things and Destiny serving as input.
That the internet was created by public funds really should be the end of this debate. Aside from the creation of the ARPANET, that became the internet, the fiber optic cable networks built for it to run on were also made possible by public funds. Money collected by phone companies for public infrastructure is what was used along with other federal funds. All public money for what should be public infrastructure'. That both were created and made possible using public funds and serve a critical public need should be end of the debate. They are public utilities - regardless of who owns them.
Public infrastructure is the fiber optic cables not the companies which use it. Imagine a water company that uses public utility water from the city and has a patented process they do to the water. No reasonable person would argue that the use of the city water means the processed water should be public utility by extension. It is the same with the internet (at least it used to be before net neutrality was significantly gutted) just because a company sends data through public infrastructure it does not mean that the company should be considered a utility.
If you can create the currency why tax the public who can barely afford rent?
Retard comment 🤣 Whether or not something was or wasn't funded by stolen taxpayer money has fuck all to do with legitimising it. You aren't owed anything that someone else has to provide.
@@user-fz7re8kk1tit should be a utility because the company could never operate without the water. Water is a natural occuring resource and everything in Earth depends on it for survival.
Your position would give grounds for corporations to privatize water and then effectively bar anything/anyone from a right to exist.
Always love to see this crossover.
What a wonderful, refreshing conversation. Thank you both so much.
1:42:10 Nice attempt to slip in a Ground News add there Alex. It would've been perfect.
I would like to drink a cup of tea or a glass of wine with this two gigants.
Love your work Alex!
Gay
@@liberalbias4462 Can't see it, mate.
"You are rewarded not according to your work or your time but according to the measure of your love."
- St. Catherine of Siena
"Are you alive?"
"well when you mean 'alive' what exactly do you mean because..."
are you physically living or do you feel more alive?
If social media companies banned all speech except the speech they agree with, then they absolutely should be considered publishers of the content on their sites. The reason for that is because the protections themselves are the result of companies arguing they shouldn’t be liable for what’s on their sites because they’re merely hosting the content of others, and the content they’re hosting doesn’t originate from them and doesn’t necessarily express their views. However, if you curate all content on your site so that it essentially expresses your views, you’re negating the entire reason for the protection you were given in the first place-thus you shouldn’t be protected.
You know this law in question also protects these platforms from civil liability of people they have banned or had their content moderated? The law also explicitly states that even if the content is constitutionally protect.
The distinction between a publisher and a social media service is that a publisher invites people to provide content for them, social media doesn't. Content generators for social media are third parties that essentially invite themselves to provide that content and that is why the service is not held liable. Publishers seek out and invite people to provide content for them that will also go through an editor before being published so therefore the publisher is liable for what they publish. There is obviously a very clear difference between publishers and social media here and whether social media bans people they don't agree with doesn't change that fact.
@@ArnoldFlibble This is correct
As said above I think you have a very flawed take on publisher vs platform legal distinctions. If social medias were considered publishers then you would fundamentally see a change in how social media operates.Im not talking about Alex jones coming back to social media I’m talking about required picture ID for creating accounts, conducting background checks of users in order to post. If social media companies are considered legal publishers they are now liable for everything their users post. When someone on the warthunder Reddit leaks classified information, Reddit would now be found criminally responsible for committing a felony. What happens when online Instagram escorts get caught? Instagram could be charged with breaking pimping and pandering for facilitating prostitution. You have to think beyond first order effects of what you’re saying.
@@user-fz7re8kk1t Not sure what you are arguing against. They aren't considered publishers, legally. That is the point.
All your examples are criminal not civil. The protection that exists is from civil litigation not criminal.
@@user-fz7re8kk1t That’s good and all, but seriously doesn’t consider the intended utility and material operational difference between a publisher and social media platform. Using laws that predate social media, made specifically to address the emergent legal problems of telephone communications, is inherently flawed. Phone companies, publishing companies, and social media companies are all materially different in utility, organizational model, and just about everything else.
What you are suggesting just punishes social media companies for some perceptive flaw they carry, not establishing an ethically grounded rule going forward from an actually understanding of law or business.
The printing press was a new form of media that had drastic changes on the world. It made the protestant reformation possible, and there was a big war in Europe over that. The world has growing pains with each new media. I trust that eventually we'll work our way through this new change as well.
the biggest difference between the printing press and the internet is you needed to be wealthy to get your message out through the printing press.
I mostly agree with the discussion of principles here, except for a sort of tie in with something you guys touched on earlier. Destiny was saying when the problems a society has become increasingly complex, our intuition on how to fix those problems becomes decreasingly reliable. I think for that same reason, humans just relying on unwavering principles is admirable to most, and maybe for good reason?
Maybe we tend to subconsciously acknowledge that a lot of the issues related to a principle may be too complex for any one person to fully analyze all the subtleties of it, so as humans we just use principles to paint a solution with a guiding rule because it's the best we generally can do.
What a great convo!
34:55 Alex caught that too
Jerk off hand at philosophy while speaking to one of our modern philosophers.
He makes it easy to dislike him.
Destiny needs to chill with those spider man hands 😂
Fr 😂💀💀
Adderall lmaoo
@@likejimi5845 He's always done those, some weird ADHD/Autism trait.
@@admiral7599 Are you saying that gesturing while you speak is an ADHD/Autism trait or that the particular way he gestures is an ADHD/Autism trait, and how do you know?
@@DiogenesNephew It can be a trait, just like walking gait is affected by both disorders. To clarify, not everyone that does it has it, but it's often a common sign associated.
Destiny and O’Connor killing it with their conversations. I love both of them.
First video of Alex ive seen since he was just starting uni? Glad to see hes still doing things. Even if its interviewing the embodiment of twitter.
Amazing conversation, i feel like Destiny and Alex are two of the most reasonable and logical people on youtube today
Reliability is a virtue. In that sense saying "I appreciate that my opponent stands up for their beliefs" could be taken as asserting that the opponent obtains that virtue, the virtue of reliability.
Until someone is reliably something we don't want them to be.
@dannyvoid better to reliably be something we don't like. As opposed to be unreliable.
I know what to do with reliably horrible people. Unreliable people fool others more easily
@@Mr.Braggadociowhat if someone goes against their principles (that you don’t like) to do things that you do like. They’re continuously going against their principles but you’d prefer that to them sticking to the undesirable ones.
@finnmacmanus5723 if they reliably go against their bad principles to do things I think is good that's is just being reliable. I am happy with that.
@@Mr.Braggadocio what if it’s not reliable, they are occasionally breaking bad principles to do good things, would you say they’d be more virtuous if they just stuck to their principles?
Great convo, like when you guys talk, 2 of the smarter internet ppl
Great discussion! Love seeing Destiny and Alex talk.