I wish this video gets a lot of attention cuz this is pretty well done talking about arena fighters more in-depth like other arena-fighter videos I've watched.
@@tkm1875 Your statement is why I find FGC toxic, because you basically disregard Gundam Extreme Vs, Dissidia, Pokken and many other well-made arena fighters that people enjoy.
@@tkm1875 I do mention this in the video actually. It's only throw away when bad publishers continue to not support creative passionate developers to make arena fighters. The budgets are awful. They hire bad studios.
What an amazing historical coverage of Arena fighters. I personally fell in love with arena fighters since it was one of those "easy to learn, hard to master" type of games. I absolutely suck at traditional fighting games like tekken, street fighter or even smash bros, but for some STRANGE reason I can somewhat dominate in games line Ninja Storm and even For Honor. I wish devs made more games like those and gave arena fighters a chance.
4:36 Real Robot is a mecha genera in contrast to super robot. Most of the main gundam anime fall into real robot while spinoffs like G Gundam and Gundam Wing are Super Robot (though Gundam Wing's story is more in line with the Real Robot genera)
Amazing video!! I've always really liked arena fighters and mech action games but it never clicked until watching this video how the 2 genres are basically siblings Whereas "arena fighters" focus a bit more on the fighting game side and "mech action games" focus a bit more on the shooting side The Gundam versus games fell like they're right in the middle
Amazing video! No video really talks about this genre in detail. Do you know about "Ninjala"? If so, I would like your thoughts on it. Ninjala was the next multiplayer title Solei worked on after Shinobi Strikers.
This is the ONE arena fighter i never played because i don't have a switch. It looks really fun and quite unique. I would like to try it one day. Have you ever played it?
@@Xionjoreyo Yes. I used to make content for the game, as a competitive player. It has great potential, but it has been going down the similar route of poor decisions much like bleeding edge and gigantic. Like bad balance, p2w, and range being oppressive, to name a few.
@@NazaF21 Yeah, soleil has made two MP games with incredible foundations, only to squander them. They could be so innovative but they stoop to these tactics
@@GatekeeperGuardian-wv3cd honestly, probably ninja storm and tenkaichi. They set the foundation for almost every anime arena fighter afterwards, and are still releasing games 20 years on. What inspired them was 2d anime fighters though if you really want to go deep on the mechanics.
28:22 Sort of like how people call the online Phantasy Star games MMOs even though Sega themselves never actually have. And aside from maybe PSO2NGS, they're really not MMOs.
I feel like Destrega and Ehrgeiz are underrepresented, they are both great and incredibly unique. I think a lot of newer titles go in the wrong direction game design wise. The over-the-shoulder camera is just terrible for local multiplayer. More games need camera work that shows both players. Also, I just started playing Marvel Nemesis, and my god the amount of missed potential is depressing.
I agree! Destrega was the one that really caught me off guard. It really was trying new and interesting things. But yes, most arena fighters are just absurd amounts of untapped potential because publishers just care about tapping into fan base money.
@@Xionjoreyo What are the games at 8:21 and 10:49 ? They look pretty cool. Also, another arena fighter game I enjoyed when I was younger was the Deadliest Warrior games on the Xbox 360, they were pretty fun.
@@Xionjoreyo I’m honestly not sure, I remember liking them when I was a kid, but that was forever ago. Might be a bit jank. You should look into it and see if you’d like it.
Most arena fighters live and die by discord groups. The only arena fighter really "alive" is storm on net play, and obviously Gundam versus in Japan. Honestly just give for honor a try you might like it. But stick to the team modes
It's an excellent for it's purpose (analyzing mechanical innovations in these games) but I felt so sad that you glossed over Budokai Tenkaichi games. Budokai Tenkaichi 3 was many orders of magnitude more popular than any arena fighter before or after and I was wondering why. Left unanswered. I feel like this was the most important game in this genre history, albeit maybe not the most innovative (tho arguably it was somewhat innovative). BT3 in particular had an inmense variety of characters and mechanics, but I do not know many other games in this video to compare. Great video though. I know now why For Honor and Guilty Gear were so succesful.
This is true. I think i could have included a bit more on anime arena fighters. But i felt like they were already well represented in other videos. I will keep this in mind when i do a follow up. They are important to the genre, just weren't the core of what i wanted to go over in the video. I appreciate the feedback though! I will keep this in mind for the next one and focus more on them!
I do remember this! I never played it myself though and it didn't seem too innovative when I looked at it. I could be wrong though! Many games surprised me when I was researching this.
@@Xionjoreyo look it up some more it's Rare I never see anything on it, it's always jump force Naruto and dbz, Saint Seiya soldiers soul as an arena fighter should be talked about more too
Not all anime games need to be arena fighters. Some source material lend themselves to be RPG, JRPG, MMO, Character Action (DMC likes) or traditional 2D fighters. Devs just choose the lazy way out sometimes.
This is true. But i would also say not all arena fighters need to be mediocre. I would also add, anime games of any genre have been pretty mediocre titles in general. Most games only break out of mediocrity by being handled by a great developer who can work with limited resources.
"Arena fighters are 3D" Ultimate Ninja started out as a 2D game, though, and most of the mechanics in Ultimate Ninja 3 and 4 directly mirror the Storm games. Is this implying that games like that are actually just fighting games, because I would disagree. Your point of view is too narrow. Sure, many arena fighters evolved from the 3D Mech fighter, but anime arena fighters did not. Instead games like Storm and Tenkaichi hail from the same legacy as 2D anime fighting games. They arose from a persistent need to simplify fighting game gameplay for a broader audience, that's why they have mechanics like autocombos, one button specials and supers, assists, multiple health bars, manual meter charging, combo breakers, and one button reversals. I encourage you to look at games like the Butoden series to witness how 2D anime arena fighters evolved into the 3D Storm and Sparking games we have today, which make up the vast majority of the arena fighter genre by volume of sales and were completely glossed over in this incredibly shallow video.
I don't disagree, but this video is not "the history of anime arena fighters" or "the evolution of arena fighter mechanics". It's "brief" for a reason. If i went into detail on how each genre evolved mechanically, what inspired it and what specific innovations took place for each game, we would be here for six hours. You could do a video of that length alone just on the Ultimate ninja series (which has has been done before iirc) let alone the entire sub-genre. The point of the video was to provide a brief overview of where arena fighters evolved from, with specific leanings towards isometric and mecha style arena fighters and their mechanics because they were the progenitor's of the genre and most of their mechanics bleed over into almost every arena fighter to some extent. Also, Getting too strict about what is or isn't an arena fighter is pointless for the most part. I never said i was the definitive voice on this. I even provide conflicting viewpoints. Nobody agrees. Especially in japan. I also don't think it's fair to focus on the games that are popular because there is already pretty good material on them. I give you that I could have went into more detail on anime AF's as a whole. Perhaps a small section dedicated to their own mini-evolution. But i personally think anything more than that would have dragged on the runtime. It was never about going in depth. Just providing the starting point, then showing how that starting point influenced everything else. It was shallow because that was the goal. Regardless, thanks for your feedback!
@@Xionjoreyo "I also don't think it's fair to focus on the games that are popular because there is already pretty good material on them." Please point me to this material because that's what I was looking for, and I haven't found anything. I found your video through youtube search, that's why my comment sounds strict, I was looking for something and didn't find what I was looking for at all. You made a good video, but assuming that you don't need to cover the biggest share of this subgenre because "it's already been done" is incredibly reductive. Even if it has been done, you can't assume everyone has seen that content. One of the most popular games in the world right now is Sparking Zero and I have seen zero in-depth content on how that game came to exist. If I had never looked into this subject myself your video would have left me dazed, confused, and worst of all, misinformed. I'd think Sparking Zero was inspired directly by the Gundam ExVersus games, because that's what you talked about for an inordinate amount of time in this video. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you just completely glossed over half of the subgenre because you assumed prior knowledge that your audience doesn't necessarily have. I'm not going to sit here and tell you what kind of videos you should make, only you can decide that, but you literally put Goku and Naruto in your thumbnail, and then you completely glossed over them. Managing audience expectations is important, and I felt misled when I finished watching this video. If I sound too harsh, I'm sorry, this is not my first language and it's hard to convey emotion through text for me. At the end of the day your video is very informative. I know I probably sound like an anime arena fighter fanboy to you right now but I actually have a massive arcade games collection on my computer and your video helped me discover some of its hidden gems, so I thank you for that. If you ever make an addendum or a part 2 or if you can point me to someone who does cover this subject more thoroughly, then I would be really thankful, because I'd love to learn more about how some of my favourite games came to exist, and what their inspirations were, the same way you covered the games you dedicated more time to in this video. I know you could spend 6 hours on this topic, but even 5 to 10 more minutes would have sufficed in my opinion. Not like youtube hates 6 hour videos or anything, I watch creators like Mauler all the time.
@@GeorgePerakis No, i appreciate your feedback. I do think i could have done more for anime arena fighters. I also concede that when i say "more material", i mean that there are popular content creators that have covered the games when they came out E.g. Shikas clouds, and the recent deluge of videos talking about the "state of anime arena fighters". As for history of the sub-genre "anime" as a whole, that doesn't really exist and i could have done better representing it. There's a few videos i like. Prov's "Why Are There No Competitive Arena Fighters?" for some history of the comp scene of isometric arena fighters. Daz is bimbo has "A Deep Dive into Competitive NARUTO: Ultimate Ninja STORM" if you like that series There was a great one on tenkaichi mechanics but i can't find it currently, i will update this comment if do. But no, i think you have some really fair criticism. It was my first time doing a video like this and negative feedback is important. I will strive to do better in the future! Thank you for your comment! Edit: Jagger1407 has great video's on tenkaichi mechanics
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
People should talk about Gundam Extreme Versus more often.
It should not be ignored. It’s influence is pretty damning…
I wish this video gets a lot of attention cuz this is pretty well done talking about arena fighters more in-depth like other arena-fighter videos I've watched.
Glad you enjoyed it man. The history is rarely talked about!
The genre is ass though. It's become the throw-away anime game genre.
@@tkm1875 Your statement is why I find FGC toxic, because you basically disregard Gundam Extreme Vs, Dissidia, Pokken and many other well-made arena fighters that people enjoy.
@@tkm1875 I do mention this in the video actually. It's only throw away when bad publishers continue to not support creative passionate developers to make arena fighters. The budgets are awful. They hire bad studios.
Youd die by kid Sakura in Naruto. Get good kid.@@tkm1875
I would give you over 9000 thumbs ups for acknowledging the existence of the almighty Gotcha Force!!
Also Kill La Kill!!!
Great video man!
Yes, gotcha force was so ahead of its time!
What an amazing video seriously! So many new discoveries for me thank you sir.
Glad you liked it!
What an amazing historical coverage of Arena fighters. I personally fell in love with arena fighters since it was one of those "easy to learn, hard to master" type of games. I absolutely suck at traditional fighting games like tekken, street fighter or even smash bros, but for some STRANGE reason I can somewhat dominate in games line Ninja Storm and even For Honor. I wish devs made more games like those and gave arena fighters a chance.
Yeah it's an entirely different and unique skillset. to play arena fighters. So it's awesome you get to show your skills in a genre that suits you!
I thought I lost this video, glad I found it again. so few people seem to really go into the mechanical history of game genres, this is great
This is the exact kind of historical deep-dive I wanted. Thanks for the great video!
Glad you liked it!
Aw no mention of Phantom Dust. I feel like that paved the way for mobas like smite that have arena fighter influence
I find it infinitely amusing that tank games lead to gundam games.
Just as the Guntank lead to the Guncanon lead to RX-78-1 Prototype Gundam
That's a pretty funny way to look at it loll
Great video 👍
4:36 Real Robot is a mecha genera in contrast to super robot. Most of the main gundam anime fall into real robot while spinoffs like G Gundam and Gundam Wing are Super Robot (though Gundam Wing's story is more in line with the Real Robot genera)
ah, i did not know this. Thanks for the info!
You absolutely deserve more views on this video. Good fucking work. Please don’t stop making videos.
Very well done
Amazing video!! I've always really liked arena fighters and mech action games but it never clicked until watching this video how the 2 genres are basically siblings
Whereas "arena fighters" focus a bit more on the fighting game side and "mech action games" focus a bit more on the shooting side
The Gundam versus games fell like they're right in the middle
I agree! They evolved in parallel. Now AF have their own sub-genres like the gundam VS style games. It's really cool to see how this stuff evolved!
Amazing video! No video really talks about this genre in detail. Do you know about "Ninjala"? If so, I would like your thoughts on it. Ninjala was the next multiplayer title Solei worked on after Shinobi Strikers.
This is the ONE arena fighter i never played because i don't have a switch. It looks really fun and quite unique. I would like to try it one day. Have you ever played it?
@@Xionjoreyo Yes. I used to make content for the game, as a competitive player. It has great potential, but it has been going down the similar route of poor decisions much like bleeding edge and gigantic. Like bad balance, p2w, and range being oppressive, to name a few.
@@NazaF21 Yeah, soleil has made two MP games with incredible foundations, only to squander them. They could be so innovative but they stoop to these tactics
Great video
Appreciate it!
I loved this video, I remember play GuntZ: the duel who make a mix of genres in your gameplay haha
Thanks! Gunz was super unique and technical.
Definitely! Other game who I love is Phantom Dust, the combat so unic and singular, that's an experience I'll never feel again@@Xionjoreyo
Gotcha force mentioned 🎉🎉
I really want to study the genre, but I'm not really sure where I should start. Any suggestions?
Depends on which ones you prefer. Anime, mecha, isometric?
@@Xionjoreyo Probably anime of the three listed.
@@GatekeeperGuardian-wv3cd honestly, probably ninja storm and tenkaichi. They set the foundation for almost every anime arena fighter afterwards, and are still releasing games 20 years on.
What inspired them was 2d anime fighters though if you really want to go deep on the mechanics.
Gotcha Force mentioned! :D
28:22 Sort of like how people call the online Phantasy Star games MMOs even though Sega themselves never actually have.
And aside from maybe PSO2NGS, they're really not MMOs.
Dissidia Duodecim to this day is still the best arena fighter for me.
It stands out as one of the most unique and well designed ones for sure! Also respect for repping hazama!
24:14? What game is this?
Family battle on steam
I feel like Destrega and Ehrgeiz are underrepresented, they are both great and incredibly unique.
I think a lot of newer titles go in the wrong direction game design wise. The over-the-shoulder camera is just terrible for local multiplayer. More games need camera work that shows both players.
Also, I just started playing Marvel Nemesis, and my god the amount of missed potential is depressing.
I agree! Destrega was the one that really caught me off guard. It really was trying new and interesting things.
But yes, most arena fighters are just absurd amounts of untapped potential because publishers just care about tapping into fan base money.
@@Xionjoreyo It would be a good idea if indie devs decided to make more of them.
@@Xionjoreyo What are the games at 8:21 and 10:49 ? They look pretty cool. Also, another arena fighter game I enjoyed when I was younger was the Deadliest Warrior games on the Xbox 360, they were pretty fun.
@@beans9872 keriotosse and Keroro Gunsou: Meromero Battle Royale Z
I never played the deadliest warrior games. Are they good?
@@Xionjoreyo I’m honestly not sure, I remember liking them when I was a kid, but that was forever ago. Might be a bit jank. You should look into it and see if you’d like it.
6:36 what was the name of the game?
Astraia. Came out in 2001. Decent game. Just not something people played/remember.
What arena fighters are people playing today thats not a 2D/Side fighter? Should i play for honor?
Most arena fighters live and die by discord groups. The only arena fighter really "alive" is storm on net play, and obviously Gundam versus in Japan. Honestly just give for honor a try you might like it. But stick to the team modes
Kid Icarus Uprising is the best arena fighter on the 3DS.
I had no idea about this until this comment lmao
It's an excellent for it's purpose (analyzing mechanical innovations in these games) but I felt so sad that you glossed over Budokai Tenkaichi games.
Budokai Tenkaichi 3 was many orders of magnitude more popular than any arena fighter before or after and I was wondering why. Left unanswered. I feel like this was the most important game in this genre history, albeit maybe not the most innovative (tho arguably it was somewhat innovative).
BT3 in particular had an inmense variety of characters and mechanics, but I do not know many other games in this video to compare.
Great video though. I know now why For Honor and Guilty Gear were so succesful.
This is true. I think i could have included a bit more on anime arena fighters. But i felt like they were already well represented in other videos. I will keep this in mind when i do a follow up. They are important to the genre, just weren't the core of what i wanted to go over in the video.
I appreciate the feedback though! I will keep this in mind for the next one and focus more on them!
Damn I miss anarchy reigns
Saint Seiya soldiers soul?
I do remember this! I never played it myself though and it didn't seem too innovative when I looked at it. I could be wrong though! Many games surprised me when I was researching this.
@@Xionjoreyo look it up some more it's Rare I never see anything on it, it's always jump force Naruto and dbz, Saint Seiya soldiers soul as an arena fighter should be talked about more too
Not all anime games need to be arena fighters.
Some source material lend themselves to be RPG, JRPG, MMO, Character Action (DMC likes) or traditional 2D fighters.
Devs just choose the lazy way out sometimes.
This is true. But i would also say not all arena fighters need to be mediocre. I would also add, anime games of any genre have been pretty mediocre titles in general. Most games only break out of mediocrity by being handled by a great developer who can work with limited resources.
"Arena fighters are 3D" Ultimate Ninja started out as a 2D game, though, and most of the mechanics in Ultimate Ninja 3 and 4 directly mirror the Storm games. Is this implying that games like that are actually just fighting games, because I would disagree. Your point of view is too narrow. Sure, many arena fighters evolved from the 3D Mech fighter, but anime arena fighters did not. Instead games like Storm and Tenkaichi hail from the same legacy as 2D anime fighting games. They arose from a persistent need to simplify fighting game gameplay for a broader audience, that's why they have mechanics like autocombos, one button specials and supers, assists, multiple health bars, manual meter charging, combo breakers, and one button reversals. I encourage you to look at games like the Butoden series to witness how 2D anime arena fighters evolved into the 3D Storm and Sparking games we have today, which make up the vast majority of the arena fighter genre by volume of sales and were completely glossed over in this incredibly shallow video.
I don't disagree, but this video is not "the history of anime arena fighters" or "the evolution of arena fighter mechanics". It's "brief" for a reason. If i went into detail on how each genre evolved mechanically, what inspired it and what specific innovations took place for each game, we would be here for six hours. You could do a video of that length alone just on the Ultimate ninja series (which has has been done before iirc) let alone the entire sub-genre. The point of the video was to provide a brief overview of where arena fighters evolved from, with specific leanings towards isometric and mecha style arena fighters and their mechanics because they were the progenitor's of the genre and most of their mechanics bleed over into almost every arena fighter to some extent.
Also, Getting too strict about what is or isn't an arena fighter is pointless for the most part. I never said i was the definitive voice on this. I even provide conflicting viewpoints. Nobody agrees. Especially in japan.
I also don't think it's fair to focus on the games that are popular because there is already pretty good material on them. I give you that I could have went into more detail on anime AF's as a whole. Perhaps a small section dedicated to their own mini-evolution. But i personally think anything more than that would have dragged on the runtime. It was never about going in depth. Just providing the starting point, then showing how that starting point influenced everything else. It was shallow because that was the goal.
Regardless, thanks for your feedback!
@@Xionjoreyo "I also don't think it's fair to focus on the games that are popular because there is already pretty good material on them." Please point me to this material because that's what I was looking for, and I haven't found anything. I found your video through youtube search, that's why my comment sounds strict, I was looking for something and didn't find what I was looking for at all.
You made a good video, but assuming that you don't need to cover the biggest share of this subgenre because "it's already been done" is incredibly reductive. Even if it has been done, you can't assume everyone has seen that content. One of the most popular games in the world right now is Sparking Zero and I have seen zero in-depth content on how that game came to exist.
If I had never looked into this subject myself your video would have left me dazed, confused, and worst of all, misinformed.
I'd think Sparking Zero was inspired directly by the Gundam ExVersus games, because that's what you talked about for an inordinate amount of time in this video. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you just completely glossed over half of the subgenre because you assumed prior knowledge that your audience doesn't necessarily have.
I'm not going to sit here and tell you what kind of videos you should make, only you can decide that, but you literally put Goku and Naruto in your thumbnail, and then you completely glossed over them. Managing audience expectations is important, and I felt misled when I finished watching this video.
If I sound too harsh, I'm sorry, this is not my first language and it's hard to convey emotion through text for me. At the end of the day your video is very informative. I know I probably sound like an anime arena fighter fanboy to you right now but I actually have a massive arcade games collection on my computer and your video helped me discover some of its hidden gems, so I thank you for that.
If you ever make an addendum or a part 2 or if you can point me to someone who does cover this subject more thoroughly, then I would be really thankful, because I'd love to learn more about how some of my favourite games came to exist, and what their inspirations were, the same way you covered the games you dedicated more time to in this video. I know you could spend 6 hours on this topic, but even 5 to 10 more minutes would have sufficed in my opinion. Not like youtube hates 6 hour videos or anything, I watch creators like Mauler all the time.
@@GeorgePerakis No, i appreciate your feedback. I do think i could have done more for anime arena fighters. I also concede that when i say "more material", i mean that there are popular content creators that have covered the games when they came out E.g. Shikas clouds, and the recent deluge of videos talking about the "state of anime arena fighters". As for history of the sub-genre "anime" as a whole, that doesn't really exist and i could have done better representing it.
There's a few videos i like.
Prov's "Why Are There No Competitive Arena Fighters?" for some history of the comp scene of isometric arena fighters.
Daz is bimbo has "A Deep Dive into Competitive NARUTO: Ultimate Ninja STORM" if you like that series
There was a great one on tenkaichi mechanics but i can't find it currently, i will update this comment if do.
But no, i think you have some really fair criticism. It was my first time doing a video like this and negative feedback is important. I will strive to do better in the future! Thank you for your comment!
Edit: Jagger1407 has great video's on tenkaichi mechanics
Great video