This rant doesn’t make a lot of sense in a couple of respects. Number one is the historical context. Charvel started as a parts and repair shop selling replacement necks and bodies for the woefully poor quality that fender was kicking out the door. They were all Strat headstocks in the beginning, it wasn’t until Grover Jackson took over and made the RR Concord that the pointy headstock came about. It proved obviously very popular and became the defacto headstock for the model series. Fast forward to the early 2000’s and they had made thousands of model series but there was a huge desire to see the Strat headstock ala Warren, EVH, and Vivian (his original group of three guitars only 1 had the pointy headstock-the skulls. His holy diver cover, and templar cross we’re both Strat). I love, and grew up with the pointy guitars and own over 30 model series but to a lot of people the Strat was correctly the OG. That coupled with the fact that until the recent resurgence in 80’s popularity pointy headstocks were pretty unpopular. You’ve also missed the fact that charvel has recently released x2 pointy guitars, the Vivian knock off, and the 1888. Also the custom shop toothpaste logo model and the Jack Butler Jackson (made in the same place as their charvel pointys). As to your point about quality I do prefer the quality of the Japanese guitars but I don’t think charvel is having any more issues than any other brand. I’m still seeing tool marks uneven frets and the like on Gibson guitars at x2 the price. And tying this to a fender exec kinda smacks of a personal issue? Either way I love the model series but referring to them as essentially the original guitars is like calling a epiphone lp the original. They both offshore built guitars design to support the USA made marquee brand.
How many pointy head stock strats did charvel make with the gold emblem on the head? You sound well versed about it. I had one but it was stolen. Serial# approximately 5343.......
@@jefferyrichardson1348 honestly I couldn’t tell you production numbers but in the 80’s most of them early on say 83’-85’ were Charvel but that started to change, it pretty much flip flopped so that most were Jackson logo’s. At that time they were the same guitars built by the same builders. Clearly Grover wanted to see his name be the Marquee probably why the Charvels got offshored and Jackson became the USA premium at least until he sold the company
I had a model four back in the day and a USA made jackson fusion. I have four MIM Charvels now. 3 San Dimas and a SoCal. I like these new Charvels better in a lot of respects. I prefer the fender headstock, I prefer the compound radius and they feel perfect in my hands. Everyone has their preferences but I wouldn't trade any of these for my old model four and I'd be disappointed if they went back to that style. They got started modifying Fender Strats and I think the current generation actually represents them very well. Out of these four I have by the way, one of them does have a tiny, and I mean tiny, amount of fret spout. Hard to notice but it's there. The frets are my only complaint but mainly due to size. I'm not a huge fan of Jumbo frets. And stainless would be nice.
I owned a 1987 Charvel 2B bass up until 1993 and totally loved it. That bass was my main one for years. I then traded it for another bass and instantly regretted doing so. I just now found an all original one in the same finish with original case literally moments ago. The bass had to have literally been stored almost all of its life because everything, including the case looks like they are in new condition. Nostalgia kicked in and I pulled the trigger on it. I have literally been looking for another one since 1993. I am so freaking stoked right now!
I know how you feel! I played a 1987 Model 2a when I was in High School that belonged to the guy who taught me. Dreamed of it for years, until finding an 87 Model 5 for $600 in 2005, with the original chainsaw case. It's my graiI, and every luth who touches it audibly gasps at how amazing it plays and sounds. I will be buried with it King Arthur style. So congrats, Brother. I know you're a happy man!
I remember lusting for a Charvel in 1988 onward. I ended up getting A Yamaha RGX110 that I modded out and it was a amazing player. Beautiful Purple and modded with better tuners, pickup (single hum of course), straplocks, and a better bridge. I’ve owned the Model series (Model 2, Model 4 and a 3DR) up until 2013 and they do have a compound radius. I remember them saying and touting that back then. I own two USA Made Charvels from 2008. The neck profile is different. The Models, have a flat back and the USA’s are slightly different and not as flat. Look at the custom order forms from back then! Either a Fender headstock or their pointy. I’d LOVE for Charvel to come out with a “Model tribute” series. Many of us had them, and were staples of our lives. Make it to the Exact specifications of the MIJ ones and I think they will knock it out of the park. When Charvel came out with the USA Production Model, it was aimed towards the early 80’s players to THAT specification. Make it towards the late 80’s players!!! There are a lot of us out there!!!
52 year old lifetime Charvel/Jackson/Fender owner player (Gibson/Ibanez also). For me, I guess it all boils down to personal tastes and expectations. I have owned various MIJ models 1 thru 6, but currently have 3 MIM San Dimas models, all hardtails with the SD pups. I personally love these models. The compound radius, jumbo frets, Strat body contours/headstock, locking tuners and Seymour Duncans just tickle my fancy at this particular point in my playing journey. But I loved my previous MIJ Charvel/Jacksons too at the time I owned them...when I was into the whole 80's hair metal style, lol. 😄 Floyd's, active electronics, metallic candy colors, sharkfins, pointy headstocks...it was good times for me.😁 As my playing and tastes have changed and evolved, so have my preferences and wants/needs in my guitars. For me, the MIM San Dimas HT's meet all my current criteria beautifully, but 30 years ago the Charvel/Jackson's did too. As far as quality issues, well again a large part of that is personal opinion and subjective, but I will say I've seen USA PRS customs with fret sprout and finish issues, Gibson Custom shops with crooked mounted tuners and terrible binding flaws, Fender USA custom shops with misaligned necks and over-torqued hardware, etc. etc... On any given day a fantastic $250 guitar can roll out the door of a factory in Indonesia...and a $4,500 USA POS can arrive at my local GC...and vice versa. If it feels right in my hands, sounds right to my ears and meets my needs I'll play it. No matter the year model, country of manufacture or name on headstock. I loved my old Charvels, but I love my new ones just as much if not more. There can be no comparison for me because they ARE totally different guitars. Made by different factory's with different workers, sourcing different woods, using different finishes and materials, complying with totally different regulations and using totally different equipment and construction techniques...all to meet the perceived needs of the players of that particular moment in time. Great video, thank you for sharing!🙏
I have a Charvel Model 88 that I bought new in 1988. It was made in Japan, but it has never changed since day one. It still plays like butter, no fret sprout and the chainsaw case still has that Charvel smell.
Those are all great points about Charvel that I never really realized until you pointed it out. I love that your first concert was Ratt. Ratt in the 80’s in their prime, Hell yeah! 🤘🏽
I’ve got a Charvel model 6 that I bought brand new in 87-88. Still have the original Jackson pickups and original case. It’s a 32 year old guitar that still sounds fantastic to this day. I will not part with it for anything.
I hear you there. I bought a 1989 Charvel 750XL and wouldn’t get rid of it ever. Built like a tank and sounds incredible. Nothing like the old Charvels.
The new lumber isn’t as stable, the trees are being treated with chemicals to make them grow faster and in turn the grain is not nearly as tight. The drying process is sped up and that’s effecting the quality as well. Older guitars were made better, some new guitars now are better but generally speaking higher priced as a result. A 1000 price point will likely need work to get it to break in
I have a 2019 MIM Charvel and it's one of the best guitars I've ever played. Beautiful fret job (no sprout issues even in the dry winter). Action is super low, finish is flawless, rings acoustically like crazy. Maybe I lucked out
I had a Charvel Model 3 brand new, many many years ago when it just came out somewhere in the 80s. The metal of the trem was so soft, you could spread it on bread and have it for lunch. The rest of the guitar was really fabulous.
Its is a fact. That my 1989 charvel 650 xl made in japan will kick any charvel made recently. The quality is professional level. The workmanship is high quality. And its now vintage. They are getting rare these days and i will hang onto mine until im old n grey then pass it to my boy. I challenge any recent charvel against my beast. Ye will be crushed by its glory.
I disagree about the headstock used to reinforce the Fender brand. To me they have ranked the 3 brands accordingly: Fender=classic, Charvel=hot rodded classic, Jackson= modern. Fender does the strat, Charvel does the hot rodded strat and Jackson the superstrat.
I have a charvel 88 in fact had two. I have a mid 90’s charvel San dimas Strat. I have two new Charvel’s and can honestly say they play just as good as my 88 and 90’s Charvel. I had the jackson pickups and I personally hated the pickups. I still have it somewhere if someone is interested. I agree with you on fret sprout though but I’ve played gibsons that suffer this and worse. Those guitars are 2k and up.
The new Charvel‘s are amazing. I own a few. Pointy head guitars don’t sell these days. Boomers in their basements are not the target consumer for Charvel.
I wasn’t an 80’s kid…. I was a 90’s kid. As I grew older I came to have a certain appreciation for the 80’s era. The tones, the shredding and the awesome gear. I own serval 80’s guitars and I have a small collection of USA 80’s Jackson’s as well as the MIJ Charvel Model 2, 3, 5a and the 88, Amazing instruments! The pointed headstock reminds me of when players required more out of their guitars, a gutless lame twang stock stratocaster just wasn’t cutting it. It’s unfortunate that people today find the lame look of a Fender Stratocaster headstock more desirable. Even before I got into the 80’s era guitars I thought the fender headstocks looked terribly lame.
I had one of the sickle type gold label strats. It was stolen . I sometimes wonder who's got it now. I bought it new in the 80's. Always had problems with it. Other guitars didn't even wanna play it. It was high dollar dollar for bk then. Anyone else out there have one of these axes? Did you have issues?
Don't forget that Charvel started using the Fender Headstocks in the late 80's with the Jake E Lee. Also in the Late 70's Wayne Charvel would add his logo to the modified Strats he worked on. So its a bit disingenuous to say that Fender since Charvel was paying royalties to Fender way back when. Are old Charvels better than current Charvels? Of course but that is true of EVERY major volume manufacturer of Guitars which Charvels are at this point. I had a 91 Jake E Lee Sig and it was terrific, sold it for a pretty penny. I have a current Charvel I bought in 2018 and it is a really great guitar. It's a MIM of course. It plays great and zero fret sprout and I live in one of the most humid place in the US, Houston, TX. And honestly Charvel hasn't been Charvel since Wayne left in 1978. So again its a wee bit disingenuous.
Had a Charvel crackle fusion guitar in the 90's never should not have sold it I miss that guitar. Bought a fender satchel Charvel cause i'm a fan and its not the same old charvel not even close took it back.
I'm pretty sure the model series all have a compound radius. Also, prices are going bonkers on these. I have an 86 Model 3 (with the pickguard) and it just rules, but it needed A LOT of work to get back in playing shape.
Had to route a piece of wood under back plate to access tremolo arm tightening nut. Ugh and the having to take off neck to adjust...this was an early so cal mim...glad they got that bit sorted it plays great though. Only one volume and 3 way pu selector
you are saying charvel isnt the same cause they had pointy headstocks in late 80s but do u know the earlier charvels had the fender style head stock and so did jackson on some strat style guitars untill they got cease and desist from fender and as far as the fender licensed on the back that is what gives them the rights to use it on the jackson and charvel guitars even though they are under fender umbrella they are different companies!
I had owned several 80's Charvels both Pointy and Strat head, the new ones don't even come close. I picked up a DK24 Dark Amber and it had horrendous fret spout, needed a serious shim and had junk electronics. I have addressed all of these issues and now it plays great but the wood feels "young" it isn't properly aged and these necks will move like crazy . the 80's Charvels smoked these new ones, no contest. My 2010 MIJ SoCal makes my DK feel like a toy
TTK, please do a part two of this, but get a USA select HSS, I would put that guitar against any one of my Jackson custom shop, vintage mij Charvel or my 1986 Jackson custom shop. Plus, the really old school charvels had fender headstocks. Great video btw!!!!!🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
my dad has a 88 Charvel Model 2 and then a 86 6b in the chainsaw case, and the frets are unreal on that guitar, both them are absolute players. I recently purchased a new Charvel San Dimas pro mod 2, I agree though, Fender needs to put the old pointy jackson / charvel head stock back on their models.
I'm pretty sure Charvel started off with the Fender style headstock. The greatest Charvel the Green Meanie had the Fender headstock. I think most people probably prefer the fender headstock. I've owned a Model 4 and Fusion deluxe and a Mexican So Cal and to me the MIM is far better. Saying that I agree with the fret sprout issue although I've never had it, but hear it alot.
Hey T.K your spot on about the older Guitars they were built to stand the test of time and have, the pointed headstock makes them stand out from the pack its all about personal choice! Thx great video stay heavy:)
Man that is my favorite case man for that charrley!!! Man ive had several and they are built very well and the ones i have are still in new condition! I love that they are still making that killer case stlye they are the best!!!!
I bought a limited edition model 2 with Vivian Campbell style graphics with a pointy reverse head stock made in Mexico the head stock dimensions were to small and to thin i was really disappointed pre order took 6 months to get .
I think charvel should offer two pointy head stock 80S throw back models one model 2 reverse headstock fr one hum one vol one with maple neck one with ebony and a 3A 2 hum fr regular pointy head stock same offered with maple or ebony fret board colors black white and candy apple red also keep the pointy head stock shape pitch and dimensions exactly like the originals from the 80S that way we are all covered i love them all have several guitars with both headstocks some custom made some japan some usa and one Mexico love them all.
I think the newer Jackson soloist SLX line are fantastically made. Trash pickups but build quality on mine at least is exceptional. I play that guitar more than my high end guitars and it cost me like $600 lol
my .02, it's a phenomenon kinda...we remember things from the past being better than they may actually have been because of the pure 'warm fuzzies' nostalgia gives us and the no less important fact that we've gotten older/matured/aged and have a more matured perspective. I can tell you, without question one thing out of many that is better today, is the discontinued Kahler whammy that a LOT of guitars employed in the mid to late 80's. People figured it out...the big failure there was having a 'nut behind a nut'. A big potential tuning nightmare. That's gone, the better designed Floyd however lives on.
I just purchased the new Charvel Pro-Mod San Dimas Style 1 HSS FR for 1,049.00 and honestly it's not the euphoric experience I was hoping and waiting for if I am being honest. Given that no shops anywhere near me actively sell Charvel guitars, I had to order it online (which is sadly becoming the norm these days) and the first thing I noticed was fret sprout. It's not the worst I have ever seen, but for north of a thousand dollars, I would expect it to be perfect. The string keeper is installed crooked on the headstock and there are sizeable gaps on both sides of the neck where it meets the body. The playability is ok, it's not the "butter" experience everyone talks about, in fact my 350.00 Jackson JS34 has a much nicer neck, it's bound with ZERO fret sprout and it allows me to get the action lower. The upside is that this is a full sized guitar, not a dinky so the guitar's resonance is far superior to my Jackson and the JB combined with the flat-wound single coils sounds amazing. I'm learning to love it for the guitar that it is, not necessarily the guitar that the internet told me it was.
Your Charvel is an 87, 88 the R on the logo is the giveaway plus the case. The 86 Charvel's came with a tweed case and a TM on the logo. Moreover, I agree the new Charvels are not the same, not just the head stock the neck shape is wrong.
I just know my 2022 Jake E Lee MIM and my 2022 USA Custom Shop JEL both play like soaking wet dreams. Vivan Campbell's Nightswan was a Buddy Blaze built guitar by the way, then mass produced by Kramer. Charvel had nothing to do with it.
Well... Early Charvel's had a Fender headstock until Fender told them to stop using them, then the pointy Charvel headstock appeared. Iv'e had a few Jackson's / Charvel's and have to say I'm amazed at how nice the necks are on the lower end JS32 Jackson's are!!!
If i was on a tight budget i'd get one of those JS32's without a floyd rose.The cheap floyd's always have tuning issues and they don't last long but the hardtail models would be a pretty solid guitar.
@@redgreen6436 had a hardtail V and 2 with the Floyd’s and they were all nice. Trick with Floyd’s is stretching the strings and blocking the trem during string changes. Use to shy away from them until I learned how to set them up, after that they pretty much stay in tune.
@@terryswallace Yeah, string stretching is one thing but you could even polish the saddles and put some graphite lube on there but it's not going to help much if the material is too soft.It's been a while since i had a cheap floyd, maybe they are better these days.I got tired of messing with them years ago, now i only use original ones.
My jackson case for my 91 sl1 is missing a latch but it is a very good case. Actually getting ready to put some emgs in it this week so much better than the new ones.
I have a Jackson Chainsaw case and a Charvel Chainsaw case. I have a Model 5 Charvel and an old Jackson professional. My Charvel case has been to hell and back. I would say I like my old Charvel better than my new ones. The Jackson logos on headstock are terrible now. My old Jackson has the abalone looking logo and the new is nasty silkscreen and it is blurry. The old ones i feel were better quality builds .I saved all my Jackson Pickups and electronics.
I agree about the lie regarding fret sprout. Properly dried wood will never have it. However I disagree about the headstock. IMHO it’s a marketing decision to separate Charvel (Strat-like superstrats) from Jackson (more aggressive sounding and looking guitars)
hmm, I think I disagree. I haven't played many old ones but I own 2 new ones. A 2017 and a 2018. Both Style 2 (Tele) one hard tail and one floyd. Both are awesome guitars and feel very different than anything 'fender' branded i've ever played. As far as a couple of the older 80's Charvel's I've played they actually sounded kind of dead to me...but who knows, maybe I played a couple duds from the 80's and have some good ones from the current batches...
The current production of charvels are equally good. If not better. My 2019 SHP plays and feels great without any issues. I had the first Candy purple 2008 USA socal and my 2019 is a better guitar and plays better. The only complaint is the 3 way switch which cuts off the sound when changing positions. Nothing else.
Too bad the Abby Ybarra pickups were removed. She left Fender and Paul who designed for Fender and her went to Jackson. The J100’s that these came w provided a great strat sound.
I have a 86 model6)with the khaler trem.i have a 94 Jackson USA series soloist with shaller floyd.. Both using emg 81 in the bridge and emg s single coils.. I LOVE THEM BOTH😍
I have had several Charvels and Jacksons. I currently play live with my 06' custom shop Charvel and MIJ Charvel Model 7. I also have a MIJ Charvel Fusion. I like the retro styling and selection of the current models but honestly I have no reason to buy one. If I did, it would be a DeMartini Frenchie.
@@snoopersmokio I have a model 3 and a pro mod. New one is better in every aspect. Clearly you guys don’t understand what FMIC is up too. Also the argument that the older ones were cheaper is wrong when you account for inflation of when the old charvels where manufactured.
Jeez, Charvel used Strat headstocks until Fender put an end to it and Charvel was forced to go with the Jackson pointy headstock shape. I own a vintage Strat head Charvel. There were a lot of well known players that used Strat head Charvels before the company switched to the pointy head. They still made Strat head Charvels for artists even after the switch to the pointy head. When I saw one of Ratt's first stadium gigs opening for Ozzy in 84, Warren was playing 2 Strat head Charvels. Jake was using his Charvel modded white Strat and a Strat head Charvel. As far as fret sprout, I live in an area where we have bone dry winters. Fret sprout and cracked acoustic tops are very common. Manufacturers can't control the climate once the guitars leave the factory. The Jackson pickups were OK, they built their own to save money over buying SD or Dimarzio.
Hey tone king i think the mexican made fender charvels are amazing and i wouldnt buy a charvel without the fender headstock if i want a pointed headsock ill get a jackson i think fender is putting a lot of attention to the charvel brand and nailing it
I bought 3 charvel from mexico and all guitars frets sprout. They built guitars even the wood are not enought dry and stable. I don't understand why this factory continu the same process in 2021. That's the major problem and default guitar charvel from mexico. Major problems.
Model series guitars did have compound radius fretboards, check out their 1988 catalogue. Don't agree with your statement about the headstocks, Charvel's most sought after models are the actual their Custom shop guitars made till 1986 before moving the production to Japan. A lot of these models did have fender type headstocks. So the current fender made models are just more concentrated on that heritage.
I've owned many! The newer stuff is simply... "Respectable" The real Vintage 80s early 90s greatness is a HUGE leap above what is being thrown out today. The Vintage Model series and ORIGINAL San Dimas USA Models are ALL FAR SUPERIOR!!! There is NO question! It is a FACT!!!! The Current Custom Shop Charvels are the only thing worthy in terms of comparing to the REAL Vintage Charvels. Even some Charvettes would beat the new stuff and that is SCARY! Lol
That's what I was afraid of...I'll keep my MIJ Fusions, thank you. ESPECIALLY since they want so much money for guitars that are not as good as my 80s Japanese pieces.
My bro for this Xmas got me a nice little guitar set-up kit. Has lots of usable but budget tools. The files are small but usable. I added a few smaller tools I have on hand to the kit I just got. It's nice I think it's like 15 bucks on Amazon . Something like that, it has gotten me more in to the tools we need to maintain our guitars. I gotta get another sanding sponge an I want a real fret rocker. The kit DIDN'T have one .
You have too much nostalgia for MIJ Charvel guitars. A San Dimas Charvel pre-pointy headstock is carried by the EVH legacy of the Bumblebee. Check 8Os pics WDM guitars are both S shaped headstocks and pointy. JEL’s guitars were S shaped. Personally if I never see another Charvel/Jacksons S shaped guitar with or without a pointy or Strat headstock it be to soon. Pointy headstocks died in 1987.
Yup. I have a 1991 Japanese preditor and it's a better guitar. The frets are harder or something too. I've never had to have frets even dressed. I have a mexican fender that I had to refret within a out 3 years. I also have an S series from 91 and it also was made in Japan and it doesn't, nor never has had fret sprout or I've not ever needed a fret job. So something is going on.
YAMAHA Guitars are where its at! The Charvels are great and some are better, but overall, you wont go wrong by going with Vintage Yamaha guitars both in Electric and Acoustic. Best value dollarwise EVER!!!!!!!
I seen two new lefty charvels on Sweetwater website. New Charvel & Jackson guitars are nice. But aren't the same or quite as good as the past.....Pre - Fender Charvel & Jackson guitars are NOT fender strats.... Are You listening fender!! And alittle FYI , Lefties favorite color isn't GLOSS BLACK!!...
35 minutes of ads before you get to the conversation you labeled this video for really As far as the headstocks go you seem to have forgotten that many of the early Chevelle‘s had a fender headstock until there was legal issues and they quit doing it that’s why early Kramer had stocks are fender head stocks with a little bit cut off of it these are the most sought after Charbell‘s and Kramers because of the earliest I do like the pointy head shovels with the pointy head logo but they had stock it’s not that big of an issue sure of all used both
8:55 StringGear Guitar Maintenance Workstation
37:50 Vintage Charvel vs. Fender made Charvel discussion
This rant doesn’t make a lot of sense in a couple of respects. Number one is the historical context. Charvel started as a parts and repair shop selling replacement necks and bodies for the woefully poor quality that fender was kicking out the door. They were all Strat headstocks in the beginning, it wasn’t until Grover Jackson took over and made the RR Concord that the pointy headstock came about. It proved obviously very popular and became the defacto headstock for the model series. Fast forward to the early 2000’s and they had made thousands of model series but there was a huge desire to see the Strat headstock ala Warren, EVH, and Vivian (his original group of three guitars only 1 had the pointy headstock-the skulls. His holy diver cover, and templar cross we’re both Strat). I love, and grew up with the pointy guitars and own over 30 model series but to a lot of people the Strat was correctly the OG. That coupled with the fact that until the recent resurgence in 80’s popularity pointy headstocks were pretty unpopular. You’ve also missed the fact that charvel has recently released x2 pointy guitars, the Vivian knock off, and the 1888. Also the custom shop toothpaste logo model and the Jack Butler Jackson (made in the same place as their charvel pointys). As to your point about quality I do prefer the quality of the Japanese guitars but I don’t think charvel is having any more issues than any other brand. I’m still seeing tool marks uneven frets and the like on Gibson guitars at x2 the price. And tying this to a fender exec kinda smacks of a personal issue? Either way I love the model series but referring to them as essentially the original guitars is like calling a epiphone lp the original. They both offshore built guitars design to support the USA made marquee brand.
How many pointy head stock strats did charvel make with the gold emblem on the head? You sound well versed about it. I had one but it was stolen. Serial# approximately 5343.......
I can't even find one for sale..
@@jefferyrichardson1348 honestly I couldn’t tell you production numbers but in the 80’s most of them early on say 83’-85’ were Charvel but that started to change, it pretty much flip flopped so that most were Jackson logo’s. At that time they were the same guitars built by the same builders. Clearly Grover wanted to see his name be the Marquee probably why the Charvels got offshored and Jackson became the USA premium at least until he sold the company
I had a model four back in the day and a USA made jackson fusion. I have four MIM Charvels now. 3 San Dimas and a SoCal. I like these new Charvels better in a lot of respects. I prefer the fender headstock, I prefer the compound radius and they feel perfect in my hands. Everyone has their preferences but I wouldn't trade any of these for my old model four and I'd be disappointed if they went back to that style. They got started modifying Fender Strats and I think the current generation actually represents them very well.
Out of these four I have by the way, one of them does have a tiny, and I mean tiny, amount of fret spout. Hard to notice but it's there. The frets are my only complaint but mainly due to size. I'm not a huge fan of Jumbo frets. And stainless would be nice.
I have a 1988 Charvel Model 6 in the chainsaw case - bought it new (went in debt)... still have it, still play it. Fantastic guitar.
I owned a 1987 Charvel 2B bass up until 1993 and totally loved it. That bass was my main one for years. I then traded it for another bass and instantly regretted doing so. I just now found an all original one in the same finish with original case literally moments ago. The bass had to have literally been stored almost all of its life because everything, including the case looks like they are in new condition. Nostalgia kicked in and I pulled the trigger on it. I have literally been looking for another one since 1993. I am so freaking stoked right now!
I know how you feel! I played a 1987 Model 2a when I was in High School that belonged to the guy who taught me. Dreamed of it for years, until finding an 87 Model 5 for $600 in 2005, with the original chainsaw case. It's my graiI, and every luth who touches it audibly gasps at how amazing it plays and sounds. I will be buried with it King Arthur style.
So congrats, Brother. I know you're a happy man!
I remember lusting for a Charvel in 1988 onward. I ended up getting A Yamaha RGX110 that I modded out and it was a amazing player. Beautiful Purple and modded with better tuners, pickup (single hum of course), straplocks, and a better bridge.
I’ve owned the Model series (Model 2, Model 4 and a 3DR) up until 2013 and they do have a compound radius. I remember them saying and touting that back then.
I own two USA Made Charvels from 2008. The neck profile is different. The Models, have a flat back and the USA’s are slightly different and not as flat. Look at the custom order forms from back then! Either a Fender headstock or their pointy. I’d LOVE for Charvel to come out with a “Model tribute” series. Many of us had them, and were staples of our lives. Make it to the Exact specifications of the MIJ ones and I think they will knock it out of the park. When Charvel came out with the USA Production Model, it was aimed towards the early 80’s players to THAT specification. Make it towards the late 80’s players!!! There are a lot of us out there!!!
I’d like to point out that Charvels originally had Fender headstocks and they were cooler than the pointies.
ruclips.net/video/JHyd7L5xEDs/видео.html
The fact that he would miss such an obvious fact seriously calls into question any of his other opinions.
He's talking about jackson charvels though
... Duh
Real vintage san dimas charvels were stratheads custom built one off pieces. The pointy mass procuced japanese charvels were not as cool or as good.
I think the pointed vintage Charvel headstocks are cooler, like my model 4 has.
52 year old lifetime Charvel/Jackson/Fender owner player (Gibson/Ibanez also).
For me, I guess it all boils down to personal tastes and expectations. I have owned various MIJ models 1 thru 6, but currently have 3 MIM San Dimas models, all hardtails with the SD pups. I personally love these models. The compound radius, jumbo frets, Strat body contours/headstock, locking tuners and Seymour Duncans just tickle my fancy at this particular point in my playing journey.
But I loved my previous MIJ Charvel/Jacksons too at the time I owned them...when I was into the whole 80's hair metal style, lol. 😄 Floyd's, active electronics, metallic candy colors, sharkfins, pointy headstocks...it was good times for me.😁
As my playing and tastes have changed and evolved, so have my preferences and wants/needs in my guitars. For me, the MIM San Dimas HT's meet all my current criteria beautifully, but 30 years ago the Charvel/Jackson's did too.
As far as quality issues, well again a large part of that is personal opinion and subjective, but I will say I've seen USA PRS customs with fret sprout and finish issues, Gibson Custom shops with crooked mounted tuners and terrible binding flaws, Fender USA custom shops with misaligned necks and over-torqued hardware, etc. etc...
On any given day a fantastic $250 guitar can roll out the door of a factory in Indonesia...and a $4,500 USA POS can arrive at my local GC...and vice versa.
If it feels right in my hands, sounds right to my ears and meets my needs I'll play it. No matter the year model, country of manufacture or name on headstock.
I loved my old Charvels, but I love my new ones just as much if not more. There can be no comparison for me because they ARE totally different guitars. Made by different factory's with different workers, sourcing different woods, using different finishes and materials, complying with totally different regulations and using totally different equipment and construction techniques...all to meet the perceived needs of the players of that particular moment in time.
Great video, thank you for sharing!🙏
I have a Charvel Model 88 that I bought new in 1988. It was made in Japan, but it has never changed since day one. It still plays like butter, no fret sprout and the chainsaw case still has that Charvel smell.
PRS will not use any wood unless it is below 8 percent humidity
Those are all great points about Charvel that I never really realized until you pointed it out. I love that your first concert was Ratt. Ratt in the 80’s in their prime, Hell yeah! 🤘🏽
Saw them in their heyday too! Amazing band that sold million$ of album$!
I’ve got a Charvel model 6 that I bought brand new in 87-88. Still have the original Jackson pickups and original case. It’s a 32 year old guitar that still sounds fantastic to this day. I will not part with it for anything.
I hear you there. I bought a 1989 Charvel 750XL and wouldn’t get rid of it ever. Built like a tank and sounds incredible. Nothing like the old Charvels.
The new lumber isn’t as stable, the trees are being treated with chemicals to make them grow faster and in turn the grain is not nearly as tight. The drying process is sped up and that’s effecting the quality as well. Older guitars were made better, some new guitars now are better but generally speaking higher priced as a result. A 1000 price point will likely need work to get it to break in
Jesus Christ, who was that guitarist we were listening to in the opening minute or so? He's bad assed and then some.
🤣🤣🤣
I have a 2019 MIM Charvel and it's one of the best guitars I've ever played. Beautiful fret job (no sprout issues even in the dry winter). Action is super low, finish is flawless, rings acoustically like crazy. Maybe I lucked out
Or maybe youre a noob and just never played anything better.
They actually did bring back the Vivian Campbell this year?
Yup. Should have done the research. And nobody corrected him live.
@@richlife06 true also model series guitars are going for more money than he’s saying lately
Yeah.... I've got one... tone fool clearly spouts tripe with a side order of twoddle.
I had a Charvel Model 3 brand new, many many years ago when it just came out somewhere in the 80s. The metal of the trem was so soft, you could spread it on bread and have it for lunch. The rest of the guitar was really fabulous.
Charvel did bring back the "Model 2" with the skulls w/ red boxes around them.
In the Ratt video for 'You're in love' from 1985 demartini's charvel has a strat headstock. Did charvel switch to them back then?
Yup. Didn’t fit with the rant here, so overlooked.
@@richlife06 Or he’s just unknowledgeable
I agree I’m with you tone king. I own an 1988 model 1 says made in Fort Worth Texas this guitar kicks some serious ass think they were made in Japan
The quarter Sawn necks that were made in Japan were super strong and stable and the fret work was very good.
Its is a fact. That my 1989 charvel 650 xl made in japan will kick any charvel made recently. The quality is professional level. The workmanship is high quality. And its now vintage. They are getting rare these days and i will hang onto mine until im old n grey then pass it to my boy. I challenge any recent charvel against my beast. Ye will be crushed by its glory.
I disagree about the headstock used to reinforce the Fender brand. To me they have ranked the 3 brands accordingly: Fender=classic, Charvel=hot rodded classic, Jackson= modern. Fender does the strat, Charvel does the hot rodded strat and Jackson the superstrat.
I have a charvel 88 in fact had two. I have a mid 90’s charvel San dimas Strat. I have two new Charvel’s and can honestly say they play just as good as my 88 and 90’s Charvel. I had the jackson pickups and I personally hated the pickups. I still have it somewhere if someone is interested. I agree with you on fret sprout though but I’ve played gibsons that suffer this and worse. Those guitars are 2k and up.
The new Charvel‘s are amazing. I own a few. Pointy head guitars don’t sell these days. Boomers in their basements are not the target consumer for Charvel.
The pointy headstock era belongs to the Gen X'ers. Boomers buy Gibsons. lol
I wasn’t an 80’s kid…. I was a 90’s kid. As I grew older I came to have a certain appreciation for the 80’s era. The tones, the shredding and the awesome gear. I own serval 80’s guitars and I have a small collection of USA 80’s Jackson’s as well as the MIJ Charvel Model 2, 3, 5a and the 88, Amazing instruments! The pointed headstock reminds me of when players required more out of their guitars, a gutless lame twang stock stratocaster just wasn’t cutting it. It’s unfortunate that people today find the lame look of a Fender Stratocaster headstock more desirable. Even before I got into the 80’s era guitars I thought the fender headstocks looked terribly lame.
I had one of the sickle type gold label strats. It was stolen . I sometimes wonder who's got it now.
I bought it new in the 80's. Always had problems with it. Other guitars didn't even wanna play it. It was high dollar dollar for bk then.
Anyone else out there have one of these axes? Did you have issues?
I'll put my '87 MiJ Model 5 against ANYTHING Charvel makes today.
Any time, anywhere.
Don't forget that Charvel started using the Fender Headstocks in the late 80's with the Jake E Lee. Also in the Late 70's Wayne Charvel would add his logo to the modified Strats he worked on. So its a bit disingenuous to say that Fender since Charvel was paying royalties to Fender way back when. Are old Charvels better than current Charvels? Of course but that is true of EVERY major volume manufacturer of Guitars which Charvels are at this point. I had a 91 Jake E Lee Sig and it was terrific, sold it for a pretty penny. I have a current Charvel I bought in 2018 and it is a really great guitar. It's a MIM of course. It plays great and zero fret sprout and I live in one of the most humid place in the US, Houston, TX. And honestly Charvel hasn't been Charvel since Wayne left in 1978. So again its a wee bit disingenuous.
Had a Charvel crackle fusion guitar in the 90's never should not have sold it I miss that guitar.
Bought a fender satchel Charvel cause i'm a fan and its not the same old charvel not even close took it back.
Once I got my 86 model 4 it was over. Maybe not the world’s best guitar. But definitely the best I ever played
New to the channel. Love the video and all of the knowledge. Thank you.
You guys owe me a dollar every time he says “ok?”
I'm pretty sure the model series all have a compound radius. Also, prices are going bonkers on these. I have an 86 Model 3 (with the pickguard) and it just rules, but it needed A LOT of work to get back in playing shape.
Had to route a piece of wood under back plate to access tremolo arm tightening nut. Ugh and the having to take off neck to adjust...this was an early so cal mim...glad they got that bit sorted it plays great though. Only one volume and 3 way pu selector
JEEZ, the ads are every 1:30? Great video though TTK. Glad to know big guitar makers are pulling the wool over our eyes.
I love my new charvel they're killing it but of course the nostalgia of yesteryears will always have older heads saying it's not as good.
TTK Vivian Campbell guitar was just put out with pointy headstock in 2020. Great guitar after luthier gets it’s hands on it.
I love that CHARVEL. I love the old headstock better.
you are saying charvel isnt the same cause they had pointy headstocks in late 80s but do u know the earlier charvels had the fender style head stock and so did jackson on some strat style guitars untill they got cease and desist from fender and as far as the fender licensed on the back that is what gives them the rights to use it on the jackson and charvel guitars even though they are under fender umbrella they are different companies!
I had owned several 80's Charvels both Pointy and Strat head, the new ones don't even come close. I picked up a DK24 Dark Amber and it had horrendous fret spout, needed a serious shim and had junk electronics. I have addressed all of these issues and now it plays great but the wood feels "young" it isn't properly aged and these necks will move like crazy .
the 80's Charvels smoked these new ones, no contest. My 2010 MIJ SoCal makes my DK feel like a toy
TTK, please do a part two of this, but get a USA select HSS, I would put that guitar against any one of my Jackson custom shop, vintage mij Charvel or my 1986 Jackson custom shop. Plus, the really old school charvels had fender headstocks.
Great video btw!!!!!🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
my dad has a 88 Charvel Model 2 and then a 86 6b in the chainsaw case, and the frets are unreal on that guitar, both them are absolute players. I recently purchased a new Charvel San Dimas pro mod 2, I agree though, Fender needs to put the old pointy jackson / charvel head stock back on their models.
I'm pretty sure Charvel started off with the Fender style headstock. The greatest Charvel the Green Meanie had the Fender headstock. I think most people probably prefer the fender headstock. I've owned a Model 4 and Fusion deluxe and a Mexican So Cal and to me the MIM is far better. Saying that I agree with the fret sprout issue although I've never had it, but hear it alot.
I believe they brought the green meanie back this year right?
The new Charvel Japan MJ guitars are great quality. Just started making them again last year at Fender Japan.
They look fantastic. But are more expensive than what the old Japanese Charvel used to cost (700 to 850 dollars with a case)
Is there a special place to find older Charvels? I’ve spent hours and days looking for older ones online, reverb, eBay, etc, they aren’t there??
Hey T.K your spot on about the older Guitars they were built to stand the test of time and have, the pointed headstock makes them stand out from the pack its all about personal choice! Thx great video stay heavy:)
Man that is my favorite case man for that charrley!!! Man ive had several and they are built very well and the ones i have are still in new condition! I love that they are still making that killer case stlye they are the best!!!!
I bought a limited edition model 2 with Vivian Campbell style graphics with a pointy reverse head stock made in Mexico the head stock dimensions were to small and to thin i was really disappointed pre order took 6 months to get .
You get fret sprout with lack of humidity.
Dude!!!! WHO is the guitarist you have in the pre vid?
I have a charvel model A 1 And fusion from back in the day,Mij, they both are AWESOME!
I agree 👍 1980 that was I have friends as chavel model 6 xl750
I have MIJ Charvels,they beat most of other guitars.in mass production there are little differences in parts but built quality does the difference
I think charvel should offer two pointy head stock 80S throw back models one model 2 reverse headstock fr one hum one vol one with maple neck one with ebony and a 3A 2 hum fr regular pointy head stock same offered with maple or ebony fret board colors black white and candy apple red also keep the pointy head stock shape pitch and dimensions exactly like the originals from the 80S that way we are all covered i love them all have several guitars with both headstocks some custom made some japan some usa and one Mexico love them all.
I have several Charvels from the '80s. They are all still fantastic guitars.
they are well built and just really easy to play. Pete Thorn has acknowledged how great the necks are
I liked the look of those old Surfcasters, wish I would have bought one back then.
Happy New Year, Louis. 🤘
I think the newer Jackson soloist SLX line are fantastically made. Trash pickups but build quality on mine at least is exceptional. I play that guitar more than my high end guitars and it cost me like $600 lol
my .02, it's a phenomenon kinda...we remember things from the past being better than they may actually have been because of the pure 'warm fuzzies' nostalgia gives us and the no less important fact that we've gotten older/matured/aged and have a more matured perspective. I can tell you, without question one thing out of many that is better today, is the discontinued Kahler whammy that a LOT of guitars employed in the mid to late 80's. People figured it out...the big failure there was having a 'nut behind a nut'. A big potential tuning nightmare. That's gone, the better designed Floyd however lives on.
I just purchased the new Charvel Pro-Mod San Dimas Style 1 HSS FR for 1,049.00 and honestly it's not the euphoric experience I was hoping and waiting for if I am being honest. Given that no shops anywhere near me actively sell Charvel guitars, I had to order it online (which is sadly becoming the norm these days) and the first thing I noticed was fret sprout. It's not the worst I have ever seen, but for north of a thousand dollars, I would expect it to be perfect. The string keeper is installed crooked on the headstock and there are sizeable gaps on both sides of the neck where it meets the body. The playability is ok, it's not the "butter" experience everyone talks about, in fact my 350.00 Jackson JS34 has a much nicer neck, it's bound with ZERO fret sprout and it allows me to get the action lower. The upside is that this is a full sized guitar, not a dinky so the guitar's resonance is far superior to my Jackson and the JB combined with the flat-wound single coils sounds amazing. I'm learning to love it for the guitar that it is, not necessarily the guitar that the internet told me it was.
I love your videos. I have a model 1,and a fusion.Great guitars.
Your Charvel is an 87, 88 the R on the logo is the giveaway plus the case. The 86 Charvel's came with a tweed case and a TM on the logo. Moreover, I agree the new Charvels are not the same, not just the head stock the neck shape is wrong.
I just know my 2022 Jake E Lee MIM and my 2022 USA Custom Shop JEL both play like soaking wet dreams. Vivan Campbell's Nightswan was a Buddy Blaze built guitar by the way, then mass produced by Kramer. Charvel had nothing to do with it.
Well... Early Charvel's had a Fender headstock until Fender told them to stop using them, then the pointy Charvel headstock appeared. Iv'e had a few Jackson's / Charvel's and have to say I'm amazed at how nice the necks are on the lower end JS32 Jackson's are!!!
If i was on a tight budget i'd get one of those JS32's without a floyd rose.The cheap floyd's always have tuning issues and they don't last long but the hardtail models would be a pretty solid guitar.
@@redgreen6436 had a hardtail V and 2 with the Floyd’s and they were all nice. Trick with Floyd’s is stretching the strings and blocking the trem during string changes. Use to shy away from them until I learned how to set them up, after that they pretty much stay in tune.
@@terryswallace Yeah, string stretching is one thing but you could even polish the saddles and put some graphite lube on there but it's not going to help much if the material is too soft.It's been a while since i had a cheap floyd, maybe they are better these days.I got tired of messing with them years ago, now i only use original ones.
My jackson case for my 91 sl1 is missing a latch but it is a very good case. Actually getting ready to put some emgs in it this week so much better than the new ones.
I have a Jackson Chainsaw case and a Charvel Chainsaw case. I have a Model 5 Charvel and an old Jackson professional. My Charvel case has been to hell and back. I would say I like my old Charvel better than my new ones. The Jackson logos on headstock are terrible now. My old Jackson has the abalone looking logo and the new is nasty silkscreen and it is blurry. The old ones i feel were better quality builds .I saved all my Jackson Pickups and electronics.
just bring back 80’s hockey headstocks
Happy NewYear TTK and the whole gear nut community - where else would you hear “I love microfibre cloths” 🤘
I agree about the lie regarding fret sprout. Properly dried wood will never have it.
However I disagree about the headstock. IMHO it’s a marketing decision to separate Charvel (Strat-like superstrats) from Jackson (more aggressive sounding and looking guitars)
hmm, I think I disagree. I haven't played many old ones but I own 2 new ones. A 2017 and a 2018. Both Style 2 (Tele) one hard tail and one floyd. Both are awesome guitars and feel very different than anything 'fender' branded i've ever played. As far as a couple of the older 80's Charvel's I've played they actually sounded kind of dead to me...but who knows, maybe I played a couple duds from the 80's and have some good ones from the current batches...
I think my CHARVEL/Jackson red guitar is a model 5.
Totally agree TK. New Charvelle’s are WAY overpriced & quality is not what it was in the 80s
Are you sure you’re talking about the right guitars?
The current production of charvels are equally good. If not better. My 2019 SHP plays and feels great without any issues. I had the first Candy purple 2008 USA socal and my 2019 is a better guitar and plays better. The only complaint is the 3 way switch which cuts off the sound when changing positions. Nothing else.
Warren and Vivian played mostly Fender style headstocks in the 80's.
Too bad the Abby Ybarra pickups were removed. She left Fender and Paul who designed for Fender and her went to Jackson. The J100’s that these came w provided a great strat sound.
I just bought a model 5fx
I have a 86 model6)with the khaler trem.i have a 94 Jackson USA series soloist with shaller floyd.. Both using emg 81 in the bridge and emg s single coils.. I LOVE THEM BOTH😍
I have had several Charvels and Jacksons. I currently play live with my 06' custom shop Charvel and MIJ Charvel Model 7. I also have a MIJ Charvel Fusion. I like the retro styling and selection of the current models but honestly I have no reason to buy one. If I did, it would be a DeMartini Frenchie.
Evh guitars covered appeals to all styles of players Charvel should fallow this concept.
Couldn’t disagree more. the new charvels are awesome.
Have you played an old Charvel? I have played both. There is no comparison. Model 6s are FAR better and cost less.
@@Lordhumongus Just a question, how are they better? What is actually better in them?
Said everybody else who bought a new Charvel, haha
@@snoopersmokio I have a model 3 and a pro mod. New one is better in every aspect. Clearly you guys don’t understand what FMIC is up too. Also the argument that the older ones were cheaper is wrong when you account for inflation of when the old charvels where manufactured.
@@stevekoz I don’t know much about this stuff, I just know Charvel isn’t making left handed basses anymore
Jeez, Charvel used Strat headstocks until Fender put an end to it and Charvel was forced to go with the Jackson pointy headstock shape. I own a vintage Strat head Charvel. There were a lot of well known players that used Strat head Charvels before the company switched to the pointy head. They still made Strat head Charvels for artists even after the switch to the pointy head. When I saw one of Ratt's first stadium gigs opening for Ozzy in 84, Warren was playing 2 Strat head Charvels. Jake was using his Charvel modded white Strat and a Strat head Charvel. As far as fret sprout, I live in an area where we have bone dry winters. Fret sprout and cracked acoustic tops are very common. Manufacturers can't control the climate once the guitars leave the factory. The Jackson pickups were OK, they built their own to save money over buying SD or Dimarzio.
Hey tone king i think the mexican made fender charvels are amazing and i wouldnt buy a charvel without the fender headstock if i want a pointed headsock ill get a jackson i think fender is putting a lot of attention to the charvel brand and nailing it
Happy New Year Louis
I bought 3 charvel from mexico and all guitars frets sprout. They built guitars even the wood are not enought dry and stable. I don't understand why this factory continu the same process in 2021. That's the major problem and default guitar charvel from mexico. Major problems.
You forgot to mention the model 7
Model series guitars did have compound radius fretboards, check out their 1988 catalogue. Don't agree with your statement about the headstocks, Charvel's most sought after models are the actual their Custom shop guitars made till 1986 before moving the production to Japan. A lot of these models did have fender type headstocks. So the current fender made models are just more concentrated on that heritage.
Happy New Years TK!
I'll take the CARVIN X100B and call it a day.
Dude! I’m sleeping on that. Ok it’s worth it.
I've owned many! The newer stuff is simply... "Respectable" The real Vintage 80s early 90s greatness is a HUGE leap above what is being thrown out today. The Vintage Model series and ORIGINAL San Dimas USA Models are ALL FAR SUPERIOR!!! There is NO question! It is a FACT!!!! The Current Custom Shop Charvels are the only thing worthy in terms of comparing to the REAL Vintage Charvels. Even some Charvettes would beat the new stuff and that is SCARY! Lol
That's what I was afraid of...I'll keep my MIJ Fusions, thank you. ESPECIALLY since they want so much money for guitars that are not as good as my 80s Japanese pieces.
My bro for this Xmas got me a nice little guitar set-up kit. Has lots of usable but budget tools. The files are small but usable. I added a few smaller tools I have on hand to the kit I just got. It's nice I think it's like 15 bucks on Amazon . Something like that, it has gotten me more in to the tools we need to maintain our guitars. I gotta get another sanding sponge an I want a real fret rocker. The kit DIDN'T have one .
You have too much nostalgia for MIJ Charvel guitars. A San Dimas Charvel pre-pointy headstock is carried by the EVH legacy of the Bumblebee. Check 8Os pics WDM guitars are both S shaped headstocks and pointy. JEL’s guitars were S shaped.
Personally if I never see another Charvel/Jacksons S shaped guitar with or without a pointy or Strat headstock it be to soon. Pointy headstocks died in 1987.
Yup. I have a 1991 Japanese preditor and it's a better guitar. The frets are harder or something too. I've never had to have frets even dressed. I have a mexican fender that I had to refret within a out 3 years. I also have an S series from 91 and it also was made in Japan and it doesn't, nor never has had fret sprout or I've not ever needed a fret job. So something is going on.
Cameron cooper on RUclips is a big modern CHARVEL user, it’s not CHARVEL to my mind, it’s a fancy fender. And they’re hugely expensive.
YAMAHA Guitars are where its at! The Charvels are great and some are better, but overall, you wont go wrong by going with Vintage Yamaha guitars both in Electric and Acoustic. Best value dollarwise EVER!!!!!!!
I really want to like the new charvels, but I just can't. There really is no comparison to the old charvels mij
I seen two new lefty charvels on Sweetwater website.
New Charvel & Jackson guitars are nice. But aren't the same or quite as good as the past.....Pre - Fender
Charvel & Jackson guitars are NOT fender strats....
Are You listening fender!!
And alittle FYI , Lefties favorite color isn't GLOSS BLACK!!...
It’s been years.. been busy these past few months.. so cool to see he still makes great videos after all these years..
wood expands and contracts with seasons and climate changes. that's the cause of "fret sprout"
What’s up TK!!
35 minutes of ads before you get to the conversation you labeled this video for really
As far as the headstocks go you seem to have forgotten that many of the early Chevelle‘s had a fender headstock until there was legal issues and they quit doing it that’s why early Kramer had stocks are fender head stocks with a little bit cut off of it these are the most sought after Charbell‘s and Kramers because of the earliest I do like the pointy head shovels with the pointy head logo but they had stock it’s not that big of an issue sure of all used both
tone king is an idiot. he's only the king of buying stuff
Japanese model versions are far better as an import than anything else