I find arch way easier. Archinstall I'd idiot proof or you might say inode proot then pacstrap with sgdisk can get you ideas to start with shell scripting. Debian, if not prerolled onstall, of which the iso installer is not any easier in my opinion, debootstrap is kinda mystically strange. Been playing with Deb though lately. 🤗
4:40, correction: Debian doesn't come with gimmicks, its Gnome that comes with the gimmicks. Debian uses Gnome as is (stock stock) whereas other distros tailor it
That's why I always install my distros naked (tty only) and manually install the packages I want. Currently I have a Debian install with ≈900 packages with all my applications installed. I think the default Debian install with any desktop has more packages.
Debian can be configured in so many different ways that you can use it, as you only reviewed it in it’s stable form, there is a testing branch and a unstable branch which is at the bleeding edge. Debian is so configurable that you can set it up just about anyway you need it to be.
With so many changes happening in the desktop space (GTK4, Plasma 6 coming soon, the switch to Wayland as a default etc) there will be bugs and breakage, and if you early adopt you will be affected by these first-hand. The whole point of a LTS distro is to guarantee a working environment that stays the same at least until it's safe to upgrade. The payback is that you accept to stay with the current bugs and missing features for a while. In the end, it's a choice: getting you things done or working as a beta tester for Gnome and Plasma.
@@folksurvival I think he's referring to how Fedora KDE will only have wayland and ditch X11. That's why those people are "beta testers." Someone who just wants to do work might have better luck with Debian 12 KDE because of X11. Of course, there are plenty of other KDE distros which use X11 that are more recent than Debian so I don't agree with his point.
When Debian says stable they are not referring to bugs. They are saying application ABIs will not change within the same release and that's why the packages are fixed for such a long time. It's to keep OS updates from breaking dependencies.
thats why if im thinking of proprietary software which does rely on stable dependencies versions for years to come for their software to work, they would rely on debian or an alma or rocky linux. But if they learn about flatpak distribution and port their application for it, they can finally become distro independent, i would hope so, but not all companies do this, so a stable distro with stable deps is needed. And thats the distros i choose from.
@@akashp01welcome to RUclips, everyone copies everyone here lol. I think the miscommunication of stable is from people assuming Linux in general is unstable (buggy). I think this is false though, because a standard user who never uses sudo past installing store apps will likely not break thier OS. This has at least been my experience and I mess around with much more than store apps!
New linux user here. Dude, you don't know for HOW LONG the terms "Stable" , "Rolling release" and sentences like "Debian is Rock Solid, it never breaks!" & "Rolling release distros Arch are meant to break" confused me. Even now it confuses me sometimes. What does "Breaking" even mean???
I want to clarify that my comment was in no way meant to be a criticism of Michael or this video. Michael does a great job with his channel. My intention was only to clarify a very common misconception.
@@akashp01 So when Linux RUclipsrs mention "Debian 12/New Linux Mint is released, and it's ROCK SOLID", it doesn't necessarily mean that it has less bugs or my system will crash less than Windows 10/11 - did I get it correct?
We all have different needs. Some need stability, others need new features, all would like both. Linux has made GREAT progress in the last few years (I've been using it since 2006, I know what it was like 10 years ago). Flatpak IMO really makes a difference in terms of keeping the software up-to-date. With this (flatpak) in mind, Debian 12 seems to be an EXCELLENT choice for workstations.
A question about flatpak (I know, I've googled and it's answered) - so many flatpaks are not "verified" by flathub, and have single users maintaining them. In contrast, packages from the package manager whether dnf, apt, or zypper, are always verified and trustable builds. How does Flatpak address the security / malicious code injection issue? This issue exists in Snaps and AppImages too, so I'm not currently in support of any of those, even though I am total fan of the concept of portable apps - everything contained in one directory, even if it takes 50% more disk space. Immutable distros are something I would love.
I really don't know, why the feature "new" is always thought as an advantage for Linux users. It matters only, if you are just waiting for something eg. missing features of the applications you use, bug fixes etc. But if you like your system as it is now it is not an advantage at all. So if you install new Debian and you like it, you don't have any reason to move to Ubuntu, because it is "newer". The "new" feature was important about 10 years ago, where the Linux desktop was still in construction and there were lot's of features well known from proprietary operating system, that were missing in Linux. But it is 2013 and now most Linux desktop environments give you all what you need. Debian has also some derivatives that are more newbies friendly (MX-Linux, Sparky Linux, LMDE etc.) so telling the newcomers, that Ubuntu is one and the only alternative for pure Debian is absurd.
This. I don't really understand what's so great on the newest versions, apart from rare missing features. I'm just fine using almost only software from Debian stable repos, with a few exceptions.
Debian is great if it has exactly what you want, you configure it once and you can be sure it'll be exactly like that for 5 years, nothing new added and nothing removed.
I've been using Debian Stable on my work desktop for years. Overall, a good experience. The servers, that I write software for, also run on Debian Stable, so using the same as my desktop makes testing easier and more reliable. Looking forward to the update.
This could be achieved by using docker as well while having and keeping an up to date desktop system. Fedora + Rockylinux in my case and any Debian (Testing)/Ubuntu based System + Debian
it's not that nice compared to say Mint. But at least it doesn't feel like you're selling your soul and your family with it, like it's the case with installing windows when the try to force you to create a microsoft account just to run your pc.
Why is the installation process so important? I do that once every couple of years. It's by far faster than updating a macOS or Windows. Even if you install Arch manually.
@@sihilius Click "Domain Join Instead" after selecting "Work or School" and then create a local account when installing Win 11, silly billy. I will say that if you are using Azure AD with Intune/Entra in a corporate environment, Windows 11's zero touch deployment when signing in during initial setup with your M365 credentials is amazing. It's so automated that I don't have to interact and onboard any new employees, install any agents, setup any software, etc (which was the bane of my existence).
I used Debian Testing for a few years, a long time ago. Still stable as hell for regular desktop use and fairly up to date packages. This was before GNOME 3/4 and plugins breaking after each new release of GNOME.
I had Debian 10 on my 10 year old laptop that I use to play music on. I tried OpenSUSE on it recently. The problem with OpenSUSE is that it takes longer to start up and has a ton more updates (as it should) when compared to Debian. I think OpenSUSE has its place but for our old music playing laptops, Debian is a great fit. I plan on putting Debian 12 on that laptop now.
“Stable” in the context of Debian refers to the operating system and most of its packages not changing over time except for security updates and bug fixes. Traditionally, this has been a big disadvantage for people because they miss out on desktop environment features and bug fixes, and many applications go unupdated on a stable distro. However, desktop environments are a lot more mature now, so the new feature’s won’t be missed as sharply, and Flatpaks are a way to get the newest applications rather than being stuck on older versions. For people with very new hardware or who need many applications in their newest versions (maybe compile some programs themselves), Debian is a poor choice. However, if your hardware is not getting an upgrade in the near future, and the up-to-date packages released as Flatpaks do the job for you, then Debian is a good choice. Alternatively, if you want Flatpak set up for you out of the box, ability to install non-free software out of the box, support for new hardware into the future, and a set of powerful graphical tools (not quite at the level of Yast, but still very cool and useful), you can wait for MX Linux 23. MX Linux is basically a better Debian Stable, and I strongly recommend it for users who are fine with Debian’s slow release cycle.
1:54 "Stable is not always good: most users don't care about stability" "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength." - _George Orwell: 1984_
Why not use the testing or "unstable" versions. They are more stable than most distros whilst being kept up to date throughout. Debian Sid is pretty much a rolling release distribution
They are not really a seller, since they don't give any assurance whatsoever. If someone doesn't know what they are doing, then it's not a good idea to use testing or SID branches due to the lack of proper support.
On one of my PC's I have Spiral Linux and love it. Its done by the same guy that did Gecko for OpenSuse. Spiral isn't a "distro", it is more of a Debian installer that basically does all the things you'd find in a "20 Things to do after installing Debian" list plus a few more things-- none of which change its complete compatibility with regular Debian.
I currently use KDE Neon, and I only really play Singleplayer Games and Indie Games. I don’t particularly care about the latest and greatest DE features. I kind of prefer my main PC to be boring and reliable, so I think down the line I’ll switch to Debian 12 and install the backports and use Flatpaks
GNOME Games was previously a part of the GNOME release set. However, it has been moved to the "others" section very recently and will not be a part of the release set after GNOME 45.
I am running Debian 12 as my main OS at home. It's been fantastic. Not having to police updates was extremely important to me for my work. Getting Flatpak up and going was simple and most all of my apps are Flatpaks. Beyond that, it's really been rock solid for so far. I play stuff on Steam and through Lutris when I'm not working. No complaints, no reason to switch away at this time.
I run MX Linux. It is moving to a Debian 12 base from Debian 11. Mx Linux supports Flatpaks out of the box. One can wait for the Debian 12 goodness to reach other Debian based Distros. I look forward to putting very slim Debian 12 installation on a very low performance machine. I can run the same Flatpaks on this machine as my Mx boxes. Eventually, they will all be running the same core software and key applications. Debian 12 is a big win for a greater Debian community.
Recently I switched to Fedora from Debian, previously I was too happy with Debian, but after Installing Fedora my happy life with Linux is gone, always trying to fix some bugs caused by new update. going back to debian now.
Overall, Debian is one of my favorite distributions. But you are right, the average user will quickly get bored and want new features. Speaking of stability and serious testing, I found a bug in the installer (in a pseudo-graphical version, perhaps it is still present), and I also once encountered a rather serious bug in the kernel (it was quickly fixed). By the way, I like the pseudo-graphical installer. It may not look very elegant, but (ideally) you only have to see it once. There is a feature that MUST be in any installer in any distribution - ask which key combination to switch the keyboard layout (not only in the GUI, but in the entire system). For some reason, this childhood sore affects so many distributions ...
The default installer is really good in my opinion. It doesn't even matter if you use it with the mouse GUI or the text based one, the usability is really great if you know your stuff (e.g. setting IP addresses, manual partitioning, etc.).
Debian stable is the workhorse ... it simply has to work without issue's, over and over. On the other hand der is Debian testing which is much more stable as someone expect.
All it takes to change to a more "recent" version is to edit one single file. Currently I'm running testing, that's Debian 13 codenamed trixie. So far I have encountered two "problems": 1) ssh had been compromised by someone who worked on a subsystem of ssh. AFAIK, that was discovered on a Friday, and when I looked on Sunday, that bug had already been fixed. 2) For quite some time, updating the system resulted in a steadily growing list of "can't dos". The reason was that the developers were fixing the Y2K38 problem, which affects pretty much the whole kernel and perhaps more. That problem has been fixed, all I had to do was to be patient. I have run unstable for a couple of years, and in that time the system showed exactly one major bug. How's that for running bleeding edge? In summary, it takes more than looking at the stable version before deciding wether Debian is for you.
I'm a new Linux user, I tried to do a full-system upgrade from Bullseye to Bookworm and my PC was unable to boot up, I Googled around with no luck and eventually just tried thee liv so I can save my files and do a clean install over it. I struggled to find the password of the Debian-Live was, but in the end, everything worked fine, and happy with it.
@@MichaelNROH, you are of course right to advise caution but I have used backports extensively for a good few years and, so far, had no problems whatsoever. That doesn't mean others might not have issues but I thought I'd throw my own experience into the mix.
@@neilsmith9473 Oh yeah, I'm not really worried about overall stability all that much but there is minimal difference that's all I'm saying. Backports are basically as good as the stable packages, just not as guruanteed.
Some people just want their computer to work without having to wonder what that thing is going to do, or break after an update. Not just people who use their computer for work.
I use Debian 12 for both my home website server and jellyfin server I love how stable it is and I love how easy and fast it is to install if you don't need a desktop.
Thank you for the video. I don't like changes on my workstation. I want to switch it on and work. That is why I use Debian 11. Can't wait to format and install Debian 12... and yes you are right the web page is confusing! Cheers!
I recently updated to Debian 11 from Debian 10 and will probably keep it this way on my main machines as I could rather seamlessly replicate my current workflow. Still I consider getting 12 on my spare laptop to try it out.
Debian is fine for gaming, I do it all the time. However you do have to know what you're doing if you're trying to play the latest AAA, but for older titles or indie gaming Debian stable works great. Debian is one of the best distros for everything, screw Arch and Fedora!
@@akashp01 Your sentence? Understand that almost 90% of PC Userbase are a Gamers, are you have something against?? We use new technologies(implemented in hardware), my PC are 4 years old but it has powerful hardware. We cant use our hardware at highest rate with Debian, it hase prehistoric packages. I like Debian, but when I see folks like you I more and more starting to dislike it. Debian Sid is what I used, but it is also at behind with packages when it is compared to ArchLinux(GaridaLinux, ArcoLinux) and Fedora, and Windows even it is not Linux distro but it has new Drivers for example.
Just migrated from Windows to Debian last week. The installation is quite okay. Most things are good out of the box. But tweaking takes almost a whole week for me. Luckily GPT helped me a lot on configuring and troubleshooring. It's amazing that it's so comfortable that I don't want to boot into Windows anymore unless I have to.
I dont understand recommending Ubuntu over Debian. One, Ubuntu is based on Debian. Two, my experience with Ubuntu was horrible; the distro did everything different. Maybe things have changed since then. I tried out a lot of distros when I got into Linux. The two I wound up using the most were Debian and a LFS/BLFS ( hey, I had a lot of time on my hands! ). I wound up going back to windows eventually because the programs I wanted to use we a major pain to get going on Linux. I think it is time for me to install another Linux OS and see how far it has come. The videos I have been watching seem to show it has.
I run debian testing (currently called trixie), many people discourage it, but for me, it's been half a year and it just works on my desktop. I am also used to debian based distros so I can solve most typical issues easily. I'm planning on hopping from trixie to the next testing branch "forky" in the future, we will see how much of a hurdle it will be.
The best part that comes with the live iso of Debian, is that boot splash (shining emerald in the case of 12 bookworm) instead of that intimidating scrolling lines of messages from kernel & processes .... during live session. surprisingly it gets set up if I install right from Calamares. That's a bonus for beginners!
I love Debian, that stability and big repos are all I look for in an operating system. You're still right about all your complaints and people should keep that in mind, everyone's talking about Debian 12 like it's going to be a bleeding edge distro from now on just because it has current DEs, but a year or two down the line, it's going to be horribly outdated. If you care at all about new packages, don't use Debian. I don't, so I'll be switching back to my boy from Manjaro eventually. Just need to stop being lazy.
@@thomasgoirand488 It's still less stable than Debian stable and more outdated than most other rolling release distros, the worst of all worlds. I'm not a big fan. I don't really need the most recent packages.
Most people using computers just want them to work and as long as the software they rely on does not give them problems, they don't care if it is the latest version. In fact, for many, the latest changes would derail their workflows and cause them problems. My point is, that most people are not Linux enthusiasts. For them, stability is what they want. I have a friend who is still using Windows 7 and refuses to upgrade. Everything he does on his machine works for him, and he is satisfied with things as they are. Given that on Debian, things are tested and work, that provides comfort for people who want a system that they can just turn on and get things done. Linux has come a long way in ease of use, and this latest version of Debian is an important contribution in that direction. Frankly, if one of my friends or family wanted to try Linux, Debian is the version I would install. Finally, your perspective is one of an expert user, and it is valid in that regard. But you fail to take into account what it takes to attract new users to Linux, it must be easy to use and stable. Debian 12 gives the new user both. Thus, I found your views here valid for experts but shortsighted with regard to average users.
I used Debian last time around 10 years ago, and the experience was... okay. Being stable didn't do anything for me personally, and the problems that came from being an old distro started to appear and I move out of it. Nowadays I think it's a lot easier to use Debian with Flatpaks, AppImages and Snaps, since it means that generally - you could have a rock solid OS, and up to date programs. Personally, I'm happy on Arch Linux and I like being up to date so Debian's main selling point doesn't do much for me, but it's clear why it's a good distro and well respected in the Linux space. I would never recommend it for a beginner though.
I currently use Mint, but I have my boot drive on a removable drive and my home folder on a removable drive. So I plan to install Debian on an alternative drive so I can boot from either one and get to my same home folder on both. I then plan to alternate between Mint and Debian each day for a few months and then decide which I like better.
That's an interesting approach. How's the performance regarding long sessions? Some USB sticks get really hot, even if the directories on them are not being accessed all the time
@@MichaelNROH It's not a USB stick! It's a server grade case with removable SATA bays. 🙂 I run Mint OS on a 1 TB SATA Ironwolf SSD, and my data is on a 6 TB WD Red (which I'm about to upgrade to a 20 TB WD Red Pro one of these upcoming weekends when I get enough free time to let the copy run. For distro testing/hopping, I put the OS on a 1 TB Velociraptor or whatever else I happen to have lying around gathering dust, lol.
Debian Sid offers more of a rolling release format if that's what you're looking for. Debian stable is meant for exactly that, work stations, servers and older machines where you require stability with long term support.
@@illum1n4ti First I should point out Sid and testing are different branches, but as long as you stay away from the AUR maybe. The problem with Manjaro is they hold back packages for a couple weeks, and most AUR builds expect the latest packages. That's why I moved my gaming machine to Garuda. It's very Manjaro like, but closer to Arch. I was just pointing out you can get a rolling release style system with Debian Sid. I know Chris Titus suggests it's more stable than Arch. Personally I only use Debian on mission critical systems, so I stick with the stable branch honesty. I use Garuda and EndeavourOS on my gaming machine and laptop respectfully.
I love it-- I've had TWO dsitros (NEPTUNE 9 and SPARKY) based on it and they were GREAT- and DEBIAN 12 it'self is GREAT. stable- fast as arch- with the BS... and NO keybanging crap needed.. and if you use FLATPAKS you can make most anything you run be " up to date"--- besidses all the fuss about being UP TO DATE-- does NOT mean one needs to be updated every 10 minutes or it's OLD.. that's just STUPID.. like the fools that think they NEED that..
Honestly, I have been using a multitude of linux distros for many years. Latest...greatest....Arch Linux, OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, Fedora, Ubuntu (all derivatives), and so many more. At this point all I want is a stable experience that doesn't break and isn't changed every month/week/day. Yes, it will get less current over time but there's definitely something to be said for "it just works" and leave it at that.
An informative video. I've been using Debian for over ten years. For me, the pluses highlighted in the video are what make it my logical choice. I use it for 3D rendering, server utils, LibreOffice, programming, video and photo editing, and general tinkering around. The stability is paramount, and now with the advent of Nvidia drivers, I can utilise a very nice graphics card with it. Having been a Windows user since the '90s and MSDOS prior, Debian is super stable and nowadays compatible compared to current Windows releases. I've had to remedy a number or recent bugs in Windows updates that have been publicised recently, and I'm glad I'm on Debian as my main OS. Like Michael said, though: it's not for everyone - especially those who aren't used to command line interfacing.
I just installed debian yesterday on a laptop and I can confirm it's not as "user friendly" as some other distros. But I found the installation process to be pretty straight forward. This is the first time I have ever installed debian and it seems okay-ish for now. I was using PoP OS until last year when that wouldn't install on my system for their newest LTS release. So I switched to Ubuntu 22.04 which was absolutely fantastic until everything started breaking a few weeks ago and about a million re-installs doesn't fix anything. So far, debian 12 has been a bit of a pain to get working right. For example sudo doesn't work until you edit some files, you have to setup flatpak as you stated, and it doesn't have a nice "additional drivers gui" (which I know is an ubuntu thing), etc... I'm currently trying to get my nvidia card to work as my screen is now just a black screen with a blinking curser. ..lol. But once I figure out how to fix that I hope to give it a spin.
A bit late but, if you leave the root password blank during installation, sudo is configured automatically. That's simply the Debian way of doing it and it warns you during the install.
@@yigitorhan7654 Appreciate it! that's good to know as I'm going to install Debian12 on another system shortly. I guess I should have read all the warnings :).
The “Debian way” is to switch to super user and then run your commands that require sudo Basically you do: su Switch to root. And then run apt update apt upgrade Etc etc
Wanting the *newest stuff* in software is like wanting a prototype phone. Like, why would I want the iPhone 15, or whatever, *before* it hits the market? Why would I want the testing prototype? Which is guaranteed to be unstable in a few hardware & software areas. That's why it's still being tested. Is it cool to get your hands on that prototype? Yeah, it's interesting, it's exciting! But if I want something *reliable* so that I can *work*, then no thank you to the "latest and greatest". Just give me something that has been tested and improved in the last 6-12 months. Something that I can be sure works great, and gives me no headaches. I want to work. I don't want shiny things that are not guaranteed to function reliably. Software that was updated yesterday will *always have a few issues*. The more changes that were done to it, the more issues it will have. Every distro has its purpose. Can't compare them in a vacuum. Like "Arch has newer stuff. Debian is 2 years behind." Ok, true. But what do you want from your distro? You use super new hardware? Play games? You want the latest improvements in the video drivers? Go with Arch. You do boring work to pay boring bills? Go with Debian. You do both? Install both!
Distro packages don't matter nearly as much as they used to. On my current system, I've deployed far more Flatpaks, added several project repos, installed loose DEBs from websites, and built and deployed from source. I'm not doing anything outlandish either, just VMs, games, office applications and the like. It's just not that hard to find a more up-to-date source if your distro's repo gets stale, not like it used to be.
I use computers mainly to browse these days. I installed Debian 12 and it's extremely stable. I haven't had a SINGLE crash on any app, or applet etc. Basically, the desktop environment is very stable too, not just the kernel. On Ubuntu, I get crashes from included apps, or applets, or other parts of the DE, 1-2 times per HOUR. The only bug I found on Debian (and that bug was there since the previous release too) was that the audio from my sound card was too low pitch (kernel bug that ubuntu has fixed). But other than that one bug, I haven't encountered anything else wrong with the system.
@@MichaelNROH Crashing apps 1-2 times an hour is not reliability. The kernel is reliable, because it's tested with modern suits and architected by the best engineers in the world -- who work at massive corporations. The kernel development these days has nothing to do with the early '90s dev community, or the desktop environment dev community. It's just big corporations with a dog in a fight. The desktop stuff on top, is not reliable at all, since it doesn't enjoy the same participation that the kernel is. Debian is the only distro I know where the DE and the gui apps are more stable than in other distros, because they do longer testing.
I am Debian user and works fine (using KDE Plasma). Honestly, this is the how install Linux from the right way (my opinion), because you got the basic base and the rest is up to you for customize. You have the control of your OS. But, i agree about the complexity in setup Debian, but still is the best distro and the base for others variants. If you don't fell comfortable, the best for beginners is Linux Mint. Is good, stable and solid too. Again, is up to you what distro you want.
People behind debian take their time with testing but what you get is fully woring distro which basicaly guarantees that it will work with hardware the intend to support. I personally love debian and i might switch over to it instead on windows 11 or 12. It does have learning curve but with graphical user interface does make things easier for newbees. I am not power user but i have good understanding over commands and can use them. Debian doesn't support proprietary software but simce it's yours to do what you want they still maintain them. You can use it for whatever you want.
Stable is not only about not crashing but also about function. Your system will not suddenly look and behave totally differently after a update, and software won't stop working because the newest version of a library don't support it any longer. You install it and it works for five years. Longer if your don't care about security updates. If you want the bleeding edge there's Debian Sid and many other distributions, but you might have to spend some time figuring out where Gnome has moved that setting, figuring out why a program suddenly stopped working after an update, and reinstall the Nvidia driver with every update.
My first move to linux from win 11 was fedora..and had a problems with it(lol) at first it was ok but more further it was going the more errors i get,i was quick on words about it..screen flicker ..sometimes vlc freezes the video for 2 sec..etc..and constant gnome shell notification alert that something isnt working properly..and the last drop that spilled the glass, was that you cannot do timeshift to external usb hard as a backup(when you live boot it dosent allow you to install fedoras backup tool)..so if os brakes you can do a clean install..but then i though what distro is major and has gnome interface to select..well debian 12..i was stunned how stable it is..with no error reports, no flickering, videos runs smoothy..ok packages are not the newest but that is the point of stability..bleeding edge distros are for testers mainly..not a casual user..ok debian requires a little more terminal but all in all..for me it is a best gnome distro out there..if i can call it a distro lol:D rather Universal OS..fast boot..stable nice looking..just wow..if there was an option to timeshift fedoras btrfs file system..I will never write this comment..and prayed for next update to fix things :D p.s. i totaly agree with older stuff on debian..nvidia drivers what repo is offering is 525..i would say install and forget it for some longer time..but after fedora..and all distros with newest features which brakes every once in a while, i say learn that terminal and dive into debian 12, set it up and use it with no fear to something brake..ok only if you do it on purpose i think xD
Funny how you say Debian isn't beginner friendly when I started with Debian 5 back then, haha! Raspbian on the first versions of the Raspberry Pi were also fun to mess around. Thanks for informing me that there is a new debian so i can update my debian installation though! And glad to know we are basically neighbor countries, I come from Switzerland :)
Went and installed on my test bed system. Worked as I expected, no surprises. But not to the point where I'd go changing our daily drivers away from MINT. Why we're still running MINT some 4 years on? We like it, it has been stable, and it is NOT MS Windows 10.
All the reasons you site Debian might not be my daily driver is precisely why I installed Proxmox on one PC, antiX, laptop, and trying Pop OS on a potential work box, still undecided. If I were really a sharp tool I'd be building my own slackware debian or arch homelab & production box. You're to the point & on topic which makes your videos worth my time. Noticed you first on OBS tutorials. Hope you make more videos on Proxmox Cli settings & configuration run w/ Proxmox a tiling wm setup that I can work frm directly like a work station without the over head🤣 thank you
i had the dilema even to pick fedora or debian..but now i know that i choose right:D honestly all linux distros are stable..and if you dont mess too much with it it will work.All people which use debian are no casual users dont let the gnome UI fools you:D. But for those who like gnome and are a casual user they will most likely go on fedora,cause it has the best integration, and the newest release, and updates comes every 2 days or so.But still for experienced people debian is probably the better choice.
im an Elementry os user for like 8 yrs after ubuntu went mainstream and started selling all our data. SO why is debian better than elementry and how should i install being a Elementry os fan in the past?
I found this video discussion helpful. I'm a novice and either Linux Mint or Kubuntu will work for me as a daily driver. I considered Debian and maybe when I get more proficient with Linux I'll try it. The video convinced me to not consider Debian at this time.
I only installed Debian 12 because it supports 32 bit laptops, as I have a pretty old laptop with very limited specs (even storage space is less than 100GB), so it was like a revival to the laptop, so far I'm not facing any issues because it's no professional use just for basic home use, so I guess it should be fine
Using Debian 12 32-Bit with MATE on my Old Toshiba Satalite A135, It is FAR from the best desktop, but runs WAY better than Win10. I litterly just use it for watching videos in bed. Tried something better like Cinnamon, but I had issues with Lutrus/Wine, and videos just didn't work as well.
I'm not sure what you mean by the default ISO being "advanced". Can you elaborate? I just installed Debian 12 about 6 times on VMs to give it a test drive with each Desktop Environment and I found it to be perfectly usable for anyone who has installed an operating system in the last 10 years. Sure it looks antiquated and doesn't have a live feature, but I found it intuitive, at the very least. Otherwise, your criticisms are valid but as you pointed out, they're also strengths. I think the main thing I agree with, is that all additional software/games/etc should be optional or excluded by default. For this reason, I used to install Debian from a minimal ISO and manually install what I wanted from scratch.
Last year I moved from using windows all my life to Manjaro. Yesterday I decided to change again and was on the fence on either Mint or Debian. I think I'll go for the first one since I'm still fairly noob and don't have much time to tinker with. Just hope that this time I'll get some sound out of my midi keyboard, since this is the reason I'm switching distros. Although Ardour showed sound on the Master output and Jack was connected to system playback, nothing happened. Thanks for the video
I'm in the process of testing all of my games and apps on another computer under Linux Mint but if I decide to blow away my Windows 10 install on my gaming rig I'm leaning towards a minimal install of Debian. I like stability.
I installed Debian 12 and no crash no bug, no problem so far...run fine, nvidia and so on...blender, gimp, kdenlive, meshroom. unreal engine, adobe substance, Davinci...all works flawlessly....smooth, sleek...try yourself, dont follow any suggestion...Distro Hoping is not good....Debian based, arch based are still on bumpy rooad...if you want rock solid and stable distro...consider Rocky, Alma, CentOS (that is it).... OriginPC eone-15x (AMD R9 3950x)
The blood from chasing the bleeding edge and the complexity of dealing with instability are two of the main things pushing people away from Linux. The graphical installation is obviously a factor in the poor website design since it is already there. With any distro, you have to consider the use case. Debian also has the benefit of being developed by a non-profit, and the spin-off problems with Red Hat deciding to stop supporting open source make that a current issue. How many distros are about to disappear because they are based on RHEL source code? CentOS just went EOL... Yes, the main download page should have easy and advanced ISOs clearly labeled and a note about internet connectivity requirements, but again that is a web design issue, not a distro issue. Many default apps could be left out, and flatpack should be supported and set as default out-of-the-box. Many users see computers as an appliance to get work or play accomplished. That's why Windows and Apple have such a market share in the desktop space. Some of us are put off by changes to desktop managers that seem niche or change for the sake of change. I'm too busy to relearn where to find some settings every few months. JMTC YMMV
Uhhh, yeah experimental is tough. The thing is, that many other libraries are not up to date and could result in a system crash if an app tries to call it
I had Debian for years. Decided to try PopOS cause I gave it to a friend and had to switch back because PopOS got weird on my dual boot system! Debian's install was so much easier 😅
I use Debian since a year (after Ubuntu). Im not install any program. At the first login with just a blackscreen (CMD) I install KDE or Gnome, then reboot. And there is no bloatware. I tried out testing branch. It contains really really recent softwares like kernel, and almost all day there is new update, but Nvidia-drivers not working on testing branch sadly. (Nvidia-smi crash). I Think I will swap to main branch again.
I remember when Debian proudly announced Debian 6 Squeeze to release with a Linux kernel free of all blobs. I used it myself during that period and kept doing so for Wheezy but given that was also the time when Valve just came to Linux... damn... that was a hell trip compared to using Kubuntu or openSuSE. One nice thing about Debian is that they still keep 32bit support arround, so I can have a current Linux on my semi vintage ThinkPad X60t which is a lovely laptop but suffers from having only a 32bit CPU. I too use it on my NAS in some capacity as OpenMediaVault is based on Debian but to give Debian Stable another chance on my desktop would make me want to use Windows 7 again.
I am a very basic computer user emails Web browsing you know basic stuff I used to distribute hope quite a bit until I hoped onto debian 11 never hoped again yes it's tricky to get working compared to mint but it's raw stability and just rightness has made me just stick with it never think of hoping now very happy debian user
Recently installed Debian and had issue after issue after issue. Installed OpenSuse instead and no issues thus far. So much smoother. I guess Debian just didnt have the bugs worked out on the laptop I installed it on.
ubuntu has constant crashing and freezing slow appopening than became broken ,FOREVERRR GONE. so now debian 12 it is I HAVENT CRASHED 1S WOOOOOHEEEEEY. smooth like butter. idk anything about linux and this 1 is more userfriendly than ubuntu. might go horribly wrong soon but uptill now its fine.
I dove in head first, steam runs wonderfully. I've had zero issues with native linux games running the Nvidia proprietary drivers. The proton games with gold and platinum compatibility I've had zero problems with. Flatpak and Snap work great. The Gnome software store is an absolute dog, it's so slow. Virtualbox isn't available natively yet unfortunately.
i've installed about 10 linux and debian is one of the only ones that worked right away. The install was a little tricky and i'm very new to linux. I installed Zorin lite and I think its one of my favorites but I was unable to get the wifi working.
I could not go further than half the video. I feel like I am listening to a young man telling me that is generation is the best (way of thinking, way of doing etc) and the only thing I would like to tell him is: stay humble and respect your elders.
3 месяца назад
People say Debian stable is old. The stable release has a 2 year cycle, like Ubuntu's LTS. What's the big deal? Ok so they might not be at up to date but it's not THAT bad.
If I'm ever asked to uninstall Windows 11 from a laptop for my father-in-law, I will definitely install Debian! Then I don't have to solve problems every week! I personally use Arch & Debian on my systems, and Windows 11 for Serato DJ because this does not work very well on Linux distros.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I haven't used Debian for over 25 years, but after getting extremely tired of unstable environments, switching back to Debian feels like coming home.
I find arch way easier. Archinstall I'd idiot proof or you might say inode proot then pacstrap with sgdisk can get you ideas to start with shell scripting.
Debian, if not prerolled onstall, of which the iso installer is not any easier in my opinion, debootstrap is kinda mystically strange.
Been playing with Deb though lately. 🤗
@@derrekvanee4567 I recently switched to debian after some unstable package (I don't know which one) corrupted my home directory.
4:40, correction: Debian doesn't come with gimmicks, its Gnome that comes with the gimmicks. Debian uses Gnome as is (stock stock) whereas other distros tailor it
Indeed.
Vanilla gnome is best... I recommend installing debian as cli only and install vanilla-gnome
That's why I always install my distros naked (tty only) and manually install the packages I want.
Currently I have a Debian install with ≈900 packages with all my applications installed.
I think the default Debian install with any desktop has more packages.
@@jit_x I install i3.
@@jit_x interesting
Debian can be configured in so many different ways that you can use it, as you only reviewed it in it’s stable form, there is a testing branch and a unstable branch which is at the bleeding edge. Debian is so configurable that you can set it up just about anyway you need it to be.
Debian has backports repo, allowing you to install recent versions of many apps and packages. While still remaining pretty stable.
With so many changes happening in the desktop space (GTK4, Plasma 6 coming soon, the switch to Wayland as a default etc) there will be bugs and breakage, and if you early adopt you will be affected by these first-hand. The whole point of a LTS distro is to guarantee a working environment that stays the same at least until it's safe to upgrade. The payback is that you accept to stay with the current bugs and missing features for a while. In the end, it's a choice: getting you things done or working as a beta tester for Gnome and Plasma.
Gnome and Plasma are desktop environments, not distros.
@@folksurvival read twice ?
@@idjdbrvvskambvvv9007 Already did.
@@folksurvival I think he's referring to how Fedora KDE will only have wayland and ditch X11. That's why those people are "beta testers."
Someone who just wants to do work might have better luck with Debian 12 KDE because of X11.
Of course, there are plenty of other KDE distros which use X11 that are more recent than Debian so I don't agree with his point.
When Debian says stable they are not referring to bugs. They are saying application ABIs will not change within the same release and that's why the packages are fixed for such a long time. It's to keep OS updates from breaking dependencies.
thats why if im thinking of proprietary software which does rely on stable dependencies versions for years to come for their software to work, they would rely on debian or an alma or rocky linux. But if they learn about flatpak distribution and port their application for it, they can finally become distro independent, i would hope so, but not all companies do this, so a stable distro with stable deps is needed. And thats the distros i choose from.
@@akashp01welcome to RUclips, everyone copies everyone here lol.
I think the miscommunication of stable is from people assuming Linux in general is unstable (buggy). I think this is false though, because a standard user who never uses sudo past installing store apps will likely not break thier OS. This has at least been my experience and I mess around with much more than store apps!
New linux user here. Dude, you don't know for HOW LONG the terms "Stable" , "Rolling release" and sentences like "Debian is Rock Solid, it never breaks!" & "Rolling release distros Arch are meant to break" confused me. Even now it confuses me sometimes.
What does "Breaking" even mean???
I want to clarify that my comment was in no way meant to be a criticism of Michael or this video. Michael does a great job with his channel. My intention was only to clarify a very common misconception.
@@akashp01 So when Linux RUclipsrs mention "Debian 12/New Linux Mint is released, and it's ROCK SOLID", it doesn't necessarily mean that it has less bugs or my system will crash less than Windows 10/11 - did I get it correct?
Laughs from Debian stable. Seriously you cannot go wrong with debian and you can tailure it how ever you want 😂
We all have different needs. Some need stability, others need new features, all would like both.
Linux has made GREAT progress in the last few years (I've been using it since 2006, I know what it was like 10 years ago). Flatpak IMO really makes a difference in terms of keeping the software up-to-date. With this (flatpak) in mind, Debian 12 seems to be an EXCELLENT choice for workstations.
The only thing is the companies learn about flatpak and port their applications to it, it would make a big difference for them and for us.
"Multi boot for the love of the distros", as I always say.
@@paxdriverthere's distrobox for that
A question about flatpak (I know, I've googled and it's answered) - so many flatpaks are not "verified" by flathub, and have single users maintaining them. In contrast, packages from the package manager whether dnf, apt, or zypper, are always verified and trustable builds. How does Flatpak address the security / malicious code injection issue?
This issue exists in Snaps and AppImages too, so I'm not currently in support of any of those, even though I am total fan of the concept of portable apps - everything contained in one directory, even if it takes 50% more disk space. Immutable distros are something I would love.
I really don't know, why the feature "new" is always thought as an advantage for Linux users. It matters only, if you are just waiting for something eg. missing features of the applications you use, bug fixes etc. But if you like your system as it is now it is not an advantage at all. So if you install new Debian and you like it, you don't have any reason to move to Ubuntu, because it is "newer".
The "new" feature was important about 10 years ago, where the Linux desktop was still in construction and there were lot's of features well known from proprietary operating system, that were missing in Linux. But it is 2013 and now most Linux desktop environments give you all what you need.
Debian has also some derivatives that are more newbies friendly (MX-Linux, Sparky Linux, LMDE etc.) so telling the newcomers, that Ubuntu is one and the only alternative for pure Debian is absurd.
It's a need that private companies imposed on people in order to sell them more products.
This. I don't really understand what's so great on the newest versions, apart from rare missing features. I'm just fine using almost only software from Debian stable repos, with a few exceptions.
I'm loving my Debian 12 setup. I've tried others, but I always come back to Debian
Debian is great if it has exactly what you want, you configure it once and you can be sure it'll be exactly like that for 5 years, nothing new added and nothing removed.
I've been using Debian Stable on my work desktop for years. Overall, a good experience. The servers, that I write software for, also run on Debian Stable, so using the same as my desktop makes testing easier and more reliable. Looking forward to the update.
This could be achieved by using docker as well while having and keeping an up to date desktop system. Fedora + Rockylinux in my case and any Debian (Testing)/Ubuntu based System + Debian
If Debian has the worst installation process you saw, I assume you never installed Arch.😂
Yeah, debian install is really easy
it's not that nice compared to say Mint. But at least it doesn't feel like you're selling your soul and your family with it, like it's the case with installing windows when the try to force you to create a microsoft account just to run your pc.
Why is the installation process so important? I do that once every couple of years. It's by far faster than updating a macOS or Windows. Even if you install Arch manually.
lfs: 🗿
@@sihilius Click "Domain Join Instead" after selecting "Work or School" and then create a local account when installing Win 11, silly billy. I will say that if you are using Azure AD with Intune/Entra in a corporate environment, Windows 11's zero touch deployment when signing in during initial setup with your M365 credentials is amazing. It's so automated that I don't have to interact and onboard any new employees, install any agents, setup any software, etc (which was the bane of my existence).
I used Debian Testing for a few years, a long time ago. Still stable as hell for regular desktop use and fairly up to date packages. This was before GNOME 3/4 and plugins breaking after each new release of GNOME.
I had Debian 10 on my 10 year old laptop that I use to play music on. I tried OpenSUSE on it recently. The problem with OpenSUSE is that it takes longer to start up and has a ton more updates (as it should) when compared to Debian. I think OpenSUSE has its place but for our old music playing laptops, Debian is a great fit. I plan on putting Debian 12 on that laptop now.
“Stable” in the context of Debian refers to the operating system and most of its packages not changing over time except for security updates and bug fixes. Traditionally, this has been a big disadvantage for people because they miss out on desktop environment features and bug fixes, and many applications go unupdated on a stable distro. However, desktop environments are a lot more mature now, so the new feature’s won’t be missed as sharply, and Flatpaks are a way to get the newest applications rather than being stuck on older versions.
For people with very new hardware or who need many applications in their newest versions (maybe compile some programs themselves), Debian is a poor choice. However, if your hardware is not getting an upgrade in the near future, and the up-to-date packages released as Flatpaks do the job for you, then Debian is a good choice.
Alternatively, if you want Flatpak set up for you out of the box, ability to install non-free software out of the box, support for new hardware into the future, and a set of powerful graphical tools (not quite at the level of Yast, but still very cool and useful), you can wait for MX Linux 23. MX Linux is basically a better Debian Stable, and I strongly recommend it for users who are fine with Debian’s slow release cycle.
1:54 "Stable is not always good: most users don't care about stability"
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
- _George Orwell: 1984_
Debian is most useful as a server OS. You can forget about your server and leave it for years and it will still be running.
Why not use the testing or "unstable" versions. They are more stable than most distros whilst being kept up to date throughout. Debian Sid is pretty much a rolling release distribution
They are not really a seller, since they don't give any assurance whatsoever. If someone doesn't know what they are doing, then it's not a good idea to use testing or SID branches due to the lack of proper support.
The bloat applications you get rid of are usually a part of the desktop environment and not Debian itself
Nah, fedora ships with basic default gnome with firefox and libreoffice
@@ninetysixvoid 🤦♂️
On one of my PC's I have Spiral Linux and love it. Its done by the same guy that did Gecko for OpenSuse. Spiral isn't a "distro", it is more of a Debian installer that basically does all the things you'd find in a "20 Things to do after installing Debian" list plus a few more things-- none of which change its complete compatibility with regular Debian.
I currently use KDE Neon, and I only really play Singleplayer Games and Indie Games. I don’t particularly care about the latest and greatest DE features. I kind of prefer my main PC to be boring and reliable, so I think down the line I’ll switch to Debian 12 and install the backports and use Flatpaks
GNOME Games was previously a part of the GNOME release set. However, it has been moved to the "others" section very recently and will not be a part of the release set after GNOME 45.
I am running Debian 12 as my main OS at home. It's been fantastic. Not having to police updates was extremely important to me for my work. Getting Flatpak up and going was simple and most all of my apps are Flatpaks. Beyond that, it's really been rock solid for so far. I play stuff on Steam and through Lutris when I'm not working. No complaints, no reason to switch away at this time.
What Display/Window Manager are you using?
I run MX Linux. It is moving to a Debian 12 base from Debian 11. Mx Linux supports Flatpaks out of the box. One can wait for the Debian 12 goodness to reach other Debian based Distros. I look forward to putting very slim Debian 12 installation on a very low performance machine. I can run the same Flatpaks on this machine as my Mx boxes. Eventually, they will all be running the same core software and key applications. Debian 12 is a big win for a greater Debian community.
Recently I switched to Fedora from Debian, previously I was too happy with Debian, but after Installing Fedora my happy life with Linux is gone, always trying to fix some bugs caused by new update. going back to debian now.
Yeah. Fedora is doing the same for me. I am also going back to debian
Overall, Debian is one of my favorite distributions. But you are right, the average user will quickly get bored and want new features.
Speaking of stability and serious testing, I found a bug in the installer (in a pseudo-graphical version, perhaps it is still present), and I also once encountered a rather serious bug in the kernel (it was quickly fixed).
By the way, I like the pseudo-graphical installer. It may not look very elegant, but (ideally) you only have to see it once. There is a feature that MUST be in any installer in any distribution - ask which key combination to switch the keyboard layout (not only in the GUI, but in the entire system). For some reason, this childhood sore affects so many distributions ...
The default installer is really good in my opinion. It doesn't even matter if you use it with the mouse GUI or the text based one, the usability is really great if you know your stuff (e.g. setting IP addresses, manual partitioning, etc.).
I like using Debian Unstable (Debian sid) because it's rolling-release and is still easy to use for my colleagues who are used to Ubuntu
Debian stable is the workhorse ... it simply has to work without issue's, over and over. On the other hand der is Debian testing which is much more stable as someone expect.
All it takes to change to a more "recent" version is to edit one single file. Currently I'm running testing, that's Debian 13 codenamed trixie. So far I have encountered two "problems":
1) ssh had been compromised by someone who worked on a subsystem of ssh. AFAIK, that was discovered on a Friday, and when I looked on Sunday, that bug had already been fixed.
2) For quite some time, updating the system resulted in a steadily growing list of "can't dos". The reason was that the developers were fixing the Y2K38 problem, which affects pretty much the whole kernel and perhaps more. That problem has been fixed, all I had to do was to be patient.
I have run unstable for a couple of years, and in that time the system showed exactly one major bug. How's that for running bleeding edge?
In summary, it takes more than looking at the stable version before deciding wether Debian is for you.
I'm a new Linux user, I tried to do a full-system upgrade from Bullseye to Bookworm and my PC was unable to boot up, I Googled around with no luck and eventually just tried thee liv so I can save my files and do a clean install over it. I struggled to find the password of the Debian-Live was, but in the end, everything worked fine, and happy with it.
I'm glad it worked out 😅
No problem! There's Debian backports to install newer versions on top of a stable release.
Backports should be used with caution though. Not every package or application does work all that well with other dependencies.
@@MichaelNROH I've read they are tested carefully. I didn't had issues with server packages.
@@MichaelNROH, you are of course right to advise caution but I have used backports extensively for a good few years and, so far, had no problems whatsoever. That doesn't mean others might not have issues but I thought I'd throw my own experience into the mix.
@@neilsmith9473 Oh yeah, I'm not really worried about overall stability all that much but there is minimal difference that's all I'm saying. Backports are basically as good as the stable packages, just not as guruanteed.
Some people just want their computer to work without having to wonder what that thing is going to do, or break after an update. Not just people who use their computer for work.
I use Debian 12 for both my home website server and jellyfin server I love how stable it is and I love how easy and fast it is to install if you don't need a desktop.
Debian is the goat on servers 😏
Thank you for the video. I don't like changes on my workstation. I want to switch it on and work. That is why I use Debian 11. Can't wait to format and install Debian 12... and yes you are right the web page is confusing! Cheers!
I recently updated to Debian 11 from Debian 10 and will probably keep it this way on my main machines as I could rather seamlessly replicate my current workflow. Still I consider getting 12 on my spare laptop to try it out.
Debian is fine for gaming, I do it all the time. However you do have to know what you're doing if you're trying to play the latest AAA, but for older titles or indie gaming Debian stable works great. Debian is one of the best distros for everything, screw Arch and Fedora!
Not sure why am I watching this, I am not planning on ever using debian.
@@akashp01 Your sentence? Understand that almost 90% of PC Userbase are a Gamers, are you have something against?? We use new technologies(implemented in hardware), my PC are 4 years old but it has powerful hardware. We cant use our hardware at highest rate with Debian, it hase prehistoric packages. I like Debian, but when I see folks like you I more and more starting to dislike it. Debian Sid is what I used, but it is also at behind with packages when it is compared to ArchLinux(GaridaLinux, ArcoLinux) and Fedora, and Windows even it is not Linux distro but it has new Drivers for example.
@@akashp01 Sure. Not gonna argue with lowminded limited brains.
@@akashp01 Fedora linux
Me neither, I don't even consider to use Linux until December this year.
you just like his content :>
Just migrated from Windows to Debian last week. The installation is quite okay. Most things are good out of the box.
But tweaking takes almost a whole week for me. Luckily GPT helped me a lot on configuring and troubleshooring.
It's amazing that it's so comfortable that I don't want to boot into Windows anymore unless I have to.
I installed Debian on my old laptop a couple of days ago. I love it! But I switched the repos from bookworm to sid (unstable) for updates.
I recently migrated to debian testing after years of being an Archer, just to learn my way around servers :D
I dont understand recommending Ubuntu over Debian. One, Ubuntu is based on Debian. Two, my experience with Ubuntu was horrible; the distro did everything different. Maybe things have changed since then. I tried out a lot of distros when I got into Linux. The two I wound up using the most were Debian and a LFS/BLFS ( hey, I had a lot of time on my hands! ).
I wound up going back to windows eventually because the programs I wanted to use we a major pain to get going on Linux. I think it is time for me to install another Linux OS and see how far it has come. The videos I have been watching seem to show it has.
I run debian testing (currently called trixie), many people discourage it, but for me, it's been half a year and it just works on my desktop.
I am also used to debian based distros so I can solve most typical issues easily.
I'm planning on hopping from trixie to the next testing branch "forky" in the future, we will see how much of a hurdle it will be.
The best part that comes with the live iso of Debian, is that boot splash (shining emerald in the case of 12 bookworm) instead of that intimidating scrolling lines of messages from kernel & processes .... during live session.
surprisingly it gets set up if I install right from Calamares. That's a bonus for beginners!
I love Debian, that stability and big repos are all I look for in an operating system. You're still right about all your complaints and people should keep that in mind, everyone's talking about Debian 12 like it's going to be a bleeding edge distro from now on just because it has current DEs, but a year or two down the line, it's going to be horribly outdated. If you care at all about new packages, don't use Debian. I don't, so I'll be switching back to my boy from Manjaro eventually. Just need to stop being lazy.
The solution: Debian testing. Try it, it's a way more stable than you may think.
@@thomasgoirand488 It's still less stable than Debian stable and more outdated than most other rolling release distros, the worst of all worlds. I'm not a big fan. I don't really need the most recent packages.
Most people using computers just want them to work and as long as the software they rely on does not give them problems, they don't care if it is the latest version. In fact, for many, the latest changes would derail their workflows and cause them problems. My point is, that most people are not Linux enthusiasts. For them, stability is what they want. I have a friend who is still using Windows 7 and refuses to upgrade. Everything he does on his machine works for him, and he is satisfied with things as they are. Given that on Debian, things are tested and work, that provides comfort for people who want a system that they can just turn on and get things done. Linux has come a long way in ease of use, and this latest version of Debian is an important contribution in that direction. Frankly, if one of my friends or family wanted to try Linux, Debian is the version I would install. Finally, your perspective is one of an expert user, and it is valid in that regard. But you fail to take into account what it takes to attract new users to Linux, it must be easy to use and stable. Debian 12 gives the new user both. Thus, I found your views here valid for experts but shortsighted with regard to average users.
I used Debian last time around 10 years ago, and the experience was... okay. Being stable didn't do anything for me personally, and the problems that came from being an old distro started to appear and I move out of it. Nowadays I think it's a lot easier to use Debian with Flatpaks, AppImages and Snaps, since it means that generally - you could have a rock solid OS, and up to date programs.
Personally, I'm happy on Arch Linux and I like being up to date so Debian's main selling point doesn't do much for me, but it's clear why it's a good distro and well respected in the Linux space. I would never recommend it for a beginner though.
Immutable diestros is the way. Everything else is left behind bitting the dust.
I currently use Mint, but I have my boot drive on a removable drive and my home folder on a removable drive.
So I plan to install Debian on an alternative drive so I can boot from either one and get to my same home folder on both.
I then plan to alternate between Mint and Debian each day for a few months and then decide which I like better.
That's an interesting approach.
How's the performance regarding long sessions?
Some USB sticks get really hot, even if the directories on them are not being accessed all the time
@@MichaelNROH It's not a USB stick! It's a server grade case with removable SATA bays. 🙂
I run Mint OS on a 1 TB SATA Ironwolf SSD, and my data is on a 6 TB WD Red (which I'm about to upgrade to a 20 TB WD Red Pro one of these upcoming weekends when I get enough free time to let the copy run.
For distro testing/hopping, I put the OS on a 1 TB Velociraptor or whatever else I happen to have lying around gathering dust, lol.
@@fredashay Nice! I use usb hard drive for my data and internal drive for install, but your setup sounds really interesting.
@@AnotherSkyTV It's a Supermicro case. Was pretty reasonable, actually. I don't need alien faces and colored neon lights inside my case, lol.
Debian 12 = Perfection.
Usually i do not comment i like your presenting style such a warm and welcome
I'm planning on switching to debian 12 already
It's about time
Package date is no longer an issue with distro agnostic package managers exiting now
Debian Sid offers more of a rolling release format if that's what you're looking for. Debian stable is meant for exactly that, work stations, servers and older machines where you require stability with long term support.
I think Manjaro is more stable than Debian test. maybe i am wrong
@@illum1n4ti First I should point out Sid and testing are different branches, but as long as you stay away from the AUR maybe. The problem with Manjaro is they hold back packages for a couple weeks, and most AUR builds expect the latest packages. That's why I moved my gaming machine to Garuda. It's very Manjaro like, but closer to Arch. I was just pointing out you can get a rolling release style system with Debian Sid. I know Chris Titus suggests it's more stable than Arch. Personally I only use Debian on mission critical systems, so I stick with the stable branch honesty. I use Garuda and EndeavourOS on my gaming machine and laptop respectfully.
Too late, austrian comrade
Already fell in love with this distro😂😂😂😂😂😂
I love it-- I've had TWO dsitros (NEPTUNE 9 and SPARKY) based on it and they were GREAT- and DEBIAN 12 it'self is GREAT. stable- fast as arch- with the BS... and NO keybanging crap needed.. and if you use FLATPAKS you can make most anything you run be " up to date"--- besidses all the fuss about being UP TO DATE-- does NOT mean one needs to be updated every 10 minutes or it's OLD.. that's just STUPID.. like the fools that think they NEED that..
Honestly, I have been using a multitude of linux distros for many years. Latest...greatest....Arch Linux, OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, Fedora, Ubuntu (all derivatives), and so many more. At this point all I want is a stable experience that doesn't break and isn't changed every month/week/day. Yes, it will get less current over time but there's definitely something to be said for "it just works" and leave it at that.
An informative video. I've been using Debian for over ten years. For me, the pluses highlighted in the video are what make it my logical choice. I use it for 3D rendering, server utils, LibreOffice, programming, video and photo editing, and general tinkering around. The stability is paramount, and now with the advent of Nvidia drivers, I can utilise a very nice graphics card with it. Having been a Windows user since the '90s and MSDOS prior, Debian is super stable and nowadays compatible compared to current Windows releases. I've had to remedy a number or recent bugs in Windows updates that have been publicised recently, and I'm glad I'm on Debian as my main OS. Like Michael said, though: it's not for everyone - especially those who aren't used to command line interfacing.
I just installed debian yesterday on a laptop and I can confirm it's not as "user friendly" as some other distros. But I found the installation process to be pretty straight forward. This is the first time I have ever installed debian and it seems okay-ish for now. I was using PoP OS until last year when that wouldn't install on my system for their newest LTS release. So I switched to Ubuntu 22.04 which was absolutely fantastic until everything started breaking a few weeks ago and about a million re-installs doesn't fix anything. So far, debian 12 has been a bit of a pain to get working right. For example sudo doesn't work until you edit some files, you have to setup flatpak as you stated, and it doesn't have a nice "additional drivers gui" (which I know is an ubuntu thing), etc... I'm currently trying to get my nvidia card to work as my screen is now just a black screen with a blinking curser. ..lol. But once I figure out how to fix that I hope to give it a spin.
A bit late but, if you leave the root password blank during installation, sudo is configured automatically. That's simply the Debian way of doing it and it warns you during the install.
@@yigitorhan7654 Appreciate it! that's good to know as I'm going to install Debian12 on another system shortly. I guess I should have read all the warnings :).
@@ebg100 Another tip. When installing proprietary Nvidia drivers, don't forget to enable 32 bit repos prior to entering the command.
The “Debian way” is to switch to super user and then run your commands that require sudo
Basically you do:
su
Switch to root. And then run
apt update
apt upgrade
Etc etc
Wanting the *newest stuff* in software is like wanting a prototype phone. Like, why would I want the iPhone 15, or whatever, *before* it hits the market? Why would I want the testing prototype? Which is guaranteed to be unstable in a few hardware & software areas. That's why it's still being tested. Is it cool to get your hands on that prototype? Yeah, it's interesting, it's exciting! But if I want something *reliable* so that I can *work*, then no thank you to the "latest and greatest". Just give me something that has been tested and improved in the last 6-12 months. Something that I can be sure works great, and gives me no headaches. I want to work. I don't want shiny things that are not guaranteed to function reliably.
Software that was updated yesterday will *always have a few issues*. The more changes that were done to it, the more issues it will have.
Every distro has its purpose. Can't compare them in a vacuum. Like "Arch has newer stuff. Debian is 2 years behind." Ok, true. But what do you want from your distro? You use super new hardware? Play games? You want the latest improvements in the video drivers? Go with Arch. You do boring work to pay boring bills? Go with Debian. You do both? Install both!
Distro packages don't matter nearly as much as they used to. On my current system, I've deployed far more Flatpaks, added several project repos, installed loose DEBs from websites, and built and deployed from source. I'm not doing anything outlandish either, just VMs, games, office applications and the like. It's just not that hard to find a more up-to-date source if your distro's repo gets stale, not like it used to be.
My Xfce install doesn't have all the useless stuff. That's a Gnome matter.
Simple correction: Debian does not have a standard desktop. The preinstalled programs come from the App Suites of the DEs (like GNOME).
Debian use to have only a tarball to install it, they didn't shipped an installer (until 3.1 or so) because "you just install debian once".
I use computers mainly to browse these days. I installed Debian 12 and it's extremely stable. I haven't had a SINGLE crash on any app, or applet etc. Basically, the desktop environment is very stable too, not just the kernel. On Ubuntu, I get crashes from included apps, or applets, or other parts of the DE, 1-2 times per HOUR. The only bug I found on Debian (and that bug was there since the previous release too) was that the audio from my sound card was too low pitch (kernel bug that ubuntu has fixed). But other than that one bug, I haven't encountered anything else wrong with the system.
I mean, most Distros are incredible reliable, even if considered unstable. It's all about smoothing remaining edges.
@@MichaelNROH Crashing apps 1-2 times an hour is not reliability. The kernel is reliable, because it's tested with modern suits and architected by the best engineers in the world -- who work at massive corporations. The kernel development these days has nothing to do with the early '90s dev community, or the desktop environment dev community. It's just big corporations with a dog in a fight. The desktop stuff on top, is not reliable at all, since it doesn't enjoy the same participation that the kernel is. Debian is the only distro I know where the DE and the gui apps are more stable than in other distros, because they do longer testing.
I am Debian user and works fine (using KDE Plasma). Honestly, this is the how install Linux from the right way (my opinion), because you got the basic base and the rest is up to you for customize. You have the control of your OS. But, i agree about the complexity in setup Debian, but still is the best distro and the base for others variants. If you don't fell comfortable, the best for beginners is Linux Mint. Is good, stable and solid too. Again, is up to you what distro you want.
People behind debian take their time with testing but what you get is fully woring distro which basicaly guarantees that it will work with hardware the intend to support. I personally love debian and i might switch over to it instead on windows 11 or 12. It does have learning curve but with graphical user interface does make things easier for newbees. I am not power user but i have good understanding over commands and can use them. Debian doesn't support proprietary software but simce it's yours to do what you want they still maintain them. You can use it for whatever you want.
Stable is not only about not crashing but also about function. Your system will not suddenly look and behave totally differently after a update, and software won't stop working because the newest version of a library don't support it any longer. You install it and it works for five years. Longer if your don't care about security updates. If you want the bleeding edge there's Debian Sid and many other distributions, but you might have to spend some time figuring out where Gnome has moved that setting, figuring out why a program suddenly stopped working after an update, and reinstall the Nvidia driver with every update.
My first move to linux from win 11 was fedora..and had a problems with it(lol) at first it was ok but more further it was going the more errors i get,i was quick on words about it..screen flicker ..sometimes vlc freezes the video for 2 sec..etc..and constant gnome shell notification alert that something isnt working properly..and the last drop that spilled the glass, was that you cannot do timeshift to external usb hard as a backup(when you live boot it dosent allow you to install fedoras backup tool)..so if os brakes you can do a clean install..but then i though what distro is major and has gnome interface to select..well debian 12..i was stunned how stable it is..with no error reports, no flickering, videos runs smoothy..ok packages are not the newest but that is the point of stability..bleeding edge distros are for testers mainly..not a casual user..ok debian requires a little more terminal but all in all..for me it is a best gnome distro out there..if i can call it a distro lol:D rather Universal OS..fast boot..stable nice looking..just wow..if there was an option to timeshift fedoras btrfs file system..I will never write this comment..and prayed for next update to fix things :D p.s. i totaly agree with older stuff on debian..nvidia drivers what repo is offering is 525..i would say install and forget it for some longer time..but after fedora..and all distros with newest features which brakes every once in a while, i say learn that terminal and dive into debian 12, set it up and use it with no fear to something brake..ok only if you do it on purpose i think xD
Funny how you say Debian isn't beginner friendly when I started with Debian 5 back then, haha! Raspbian on the first versions of the Raspberry Pi were also fun to mess around.
Thanks for informing me that there is a new debian so i can update my debian installation though!
And glad to know we are basically neighbor countries, I come from Switzerland :)
Went and installed on my test bed system. Worked as I expected, no surprises. But not to the point where I'd go changing our daily drivers away from MINT. Why we're still running MINT some 4 years on? We like it, it has been stable, and it is NOT MS Windows 10.
and here is why i suggest devuan based on debian or even better refracta...
All the reasons you site Debian might not be my daily driver is precisely why I installed Proxmox on one PC, antiX, laptop, and trying Pop OS on a potential work box, still undecided. If I were really a sharp tool I'd be building my own slackware debian or arch homelab & production box. You're to the point & on topic which makes your videos worth my time. Noticed you first on OBS tutorials. Hope you make more videos on Proxmox Cli settings & configuration run w/ Proxmox a tiling wm setup that I can work frm directly like a work station without the over head🤣 thank you
Why this distro still insists on installing 47 games plus a Thai terminal is completely beyond me.
Did you use the net install iso?
it's Gnome's fault, that's what they provide by default and it's not modified for debian unlike other distros
@@Ben-hg3bz Actually I did, and installed just the stock Debian with no DE. Then I installed the base Gnome DE, so I missed all the extra junk.
i had the dilema even to pick fedora or debian..but now i know that i choose right:D honestly all linux distros are stable..and if you dont mess too much with it it will work.All people which use debian are no casual users dont let the gnome UI fools you:D. But for those who like gnome and are a casual user they will most likely go on fedora,cause it has the best integration, and the newest release, and updates comes every 2 days or so.But still for experienced people debian is probably the better choice.
I agree. Stable and Unstable does not mean that a system is not stable.
I like Debian's stability not because it's "unbreaking", but because it's unchanging
im an Elementry os user for like 8 yrs after ubuntu went mainstream and started selling all our data.
SO why is debian better than elementry and how should i install being a Elementry os fan in the past?
I found this video discussion helpful. I'm a novice and either Linux Mint or Kubuntu will work for me as a daily driver. I considered Debian and maybe when I get more proficient with Linux I'll try it. The video convinced me to not consider Debian at this time.
I only installed Debian 12 because it supports 32 bit laptops, as I have a pretty old laptop with very limited specs (even storage space is less than 100GB), so it was like a revival to the laptop, so far I'm not facing any issues because it's no professional use just for basic home use, so I guess it should be fine
Using Debian 12 32-Bit with MATE on my Old Toshiba Satalite A135, It is FAR from the best desktop, but runs WAY better than Win10. I litterly just use it for watching videos in bed. Tried something better like Cinnamon, but I had issues with Lutrus/Wine, and videos just didn't work as well.
I'm not sure what you mean by the default ISO being "advanced". Can you elaborate? I just installed Debian 12 about 6 times on VMs to give it a test drive with each Desktop Environment and I found it to be perfectly usable for anyone who has installed an operating system in the last 10 years. Sure it looks antiquated and doesn't have a live feature, but I found it intuitive, at the very least.
Otherwise, your criticisms are valid but as you pointed out, they're also strengths. I think the main thing I agree with, is that all additional software/games/etc should be optional or excluded by default. For this reason, I used to install Debian from a minimal ISO and manually install what I wanted from scratch.
Last year I moved from using windows all my life to Manjaro. Yesterday I decided to change again and was on the fence on either Mint or Debian. I think I'll go for the first one since I'm still fairly noob and don't have much time to tinker with. Just hope that this time I'll get some sound out of my midi keyboard, since this is the reason I'm switching distros. Although Ardour showed sound on the Master output and Jack was connected to system playback, nothing happened. Thanks for the video
I'm in the process of testing all of my games and apps on another computer under Linux Mint but if I decide to blow away my Windows 10 install on my gaming rig I'm leaning towards a minimal install of Debian. I like stability.
I installed Debian 12 and no crash no bug, no problem so far...run fine, nvidia and so on...blender, gimp, kdenlive, meshroom. unreal engine, adobe substance, Davinci...all works flawlessly....smooth, sleek...try yourself, dont follow any suggestion...Distro Hoping is not good....Debian based, arch based are still on bumpy rooad...if you want rock solid and stable distro...consider Rocky, Alma, CentOS (that is it).... OriginPC eone-15x (AMD R9 3950x)
The blood from chasing the bleeding edge and the complexity of dealing with instability are two of the main things pushing people away from Linux. The graphical installation is obviously a factor in the poor website design since it is already there. With any distro, you have to consider the use case. Debian also has the benefit of being developed by a non-profit, and the spin-off problems with Red Hat deciding to stop supporting open source make that a current issue. How many distros are about to disappear because they are based on RHEL source code? CentOS just went EOL...
Yes, the main download page should have easy and advanced ISOs clearly labeled and a note about internet connectivity requirements, but again that is a web design issue, not a distro issue. Many default apps could be left out, and flatpack should be supported and set as default out-of-the-box.
Many users see computers as an appliance to get work or play accomplished. That's why Windows and Apple have such a market share in the desktop space. Some of us are put off by changes to desktop managers that seem niche or change for the sake of change. I'm too busy to relearn where to find some settings every few months. JMTC YMMV
The most appealing thing about Debian to me is that whenever folks describe Debians cons, they all look like pros to me.
Aight, I will install it after watching this then lol
If you install GNOME from the deb file (experimental), it has the latest version of GNOME, but beware that it may break your system.
Uhhh, yeah experimental is tough. The thing is, that many other libraries are not up to date and could result in a system crash if an app tries to call it
I had Debian for years. Decided to try PopOS cause I gave it to a friend and had to switch back because PopOS got weird on my dual boot system! Debian's install was so much easier 😅
I use Debian since a year (after Ubuntu). Im not install any program. At the first login with just a blackscreen (CMD) I install KDE or Gnome, then reboot. And there is no bloatware.
I tried out testing branch. It contains really really recent softwares like kernel, and almost all day there is new update, but Nvidia-drivers not working on testing branch sadly. (Nvidia-smi crash). I Think I will swap to main branch again.
I remember when Debian proudly announced Debian 6 Squeeze to release with a Linux kernel free of all blobs.
I used it myself during that period and kept doing so for Wheezy but given that was also the time when Valve just came to Linux... damn... that was a hell trip compared to using Kubuntu or openSuSE.
One nice thing about Debian is that they still keep 32bit support arround, so I can have a current Linux on my semi vintage ThinkPad X60t which is a lovely laptop but suffers from having only a 32bit CPU.
I too use it on my NAS in some capacity as OpenMediaVault is based on Debian but to give Debian Stable another chance on my desktop would make me want to use Windows 7 again.
I am a very basic computer user emails Web browsing you know basic stuff I used to distribute hope quite a bit until I hoped onto debian 11 never hoped again yes it's tricky to get working compared to mint but it's raw stability and just rightness has made me just stick with it never think of hoping now very happy debian user
I'm watching this video after installing Debian. But I still liked your video.
Recently installed Debian and had issue after issue after issue. Installed OpenSuse instead and no issues thus far. So much smoother. I guess Debian just didnt have the bugs worked out on the laptop I installed it on.
Debian 12 with plasma. Perfect.
ubuntu has constant crashing and freezing slow appopening than became broken ,FOREVERRR GONE. so now debian 12 it is I HAVENT CRASHED 1S WOOOOOHEEEEEY. smooth like butter. idk anything about linux and this 1 is more userfriendly than ubuntu. might go horribly wrong soon but uptill now its fine.
I dove in head first, steam runs wonderfully. I've had zero issues with native linux games running the Nvidia proprietary drivers. The proton games with gold and platinum compatibility I've had zero problems with. Flatpak and Snap work great. The Gnome software store is an absolute dog, it's so slow. Virtualbox isn't available natively yet unfortunately.
i've installed about 10 linux and debian is one of the only ones that worked right away. The install was a little tricky and i'm very new to linux. I installed Zorin lite and I think its one of my favorites but I was unable to get the wifi working.
I could not go further than half the video. I feel like I am listening to a young man telling me that is generation is the best (way of thinking, way of doing etc) and the only thing I would like to tell him is: stay humble and respect your elders.
People say Debian stable is old. The stable release has a 2 year cycle, like Ubuntu's LTS. What's the big deal? Ok so they might not be at up to date but it's not THAT bad.
If I'm ever asked to uninstall Windows 11 from a laptop for my father-in-law, I will definitely install Debian!
Then I don't have to solve problems every week!
I personally use Arch & Debian on my systems, and Windows 11 for Serato DJ because this does not work very well on Linux distros.
It is a stable distribution, not an unbreakable distribution. I blew mine in pieces.
Nothing in life is "unbreakable".