they disabled the transparent slider in the debian 12 mate panel settings. I am doing my own spinoff for christians with customization. This modification is causing problems for my theme. I hope the fix it before they release the final thing.
As a POPos user I have been facing some issues lately like bluetooth disconnecting intermittently and mouse(wireless) not connecting during startup. So I decided to give Arch-Gnome a try and I love it. I find Debian too dated for my use case for eg I use nvim and it still runs on version 0.6 (in Debian) which doesn't have lua support like in 0.9. These minor issue can be fixed through Flatpaks but I guess for very basic softwares like vim I should not rely on Flatpak (imho) as it is hard to figure out the XDG path in flatpak builds(i am a noob) . Debian is Great but Arch seems to be more focused on home use and Debian on server use. I may be wrong as I am most often.
HEY DUDE i have this exact computer and i already removed the spinning disk hdd for a similar sized SSD. BUT when i tried installing debian i had problems logging in SO i installed elementry os instead and now similar log in problems. I STILL get the apple ON SOUND so i suspect some firmware is borking my linux log ins. i was able to use both linux installs for several log ins and ownloaded browsers , updated both systems BUT now a week later it keeps asking me for my root or username login while still in terminal and then it just leaves me hanging at a terminal bash flashing cursor and i have no idea what to do? AM i supposed to modify the firmware to use linux w/o any problems? i honestly have no insterest in ever using mac os as we have a ten yr newer mac thats actually already slower than this one since my bro just reinstalled mac os on here before i started this.
Former Debian contributer here.The installer moves very slowly in terms of graphics. This is because the iso can't ship a display server for technical reasons related to memory usage limits, basically the installer wants to run in as little ram as possible. 64MB or less was the target last i looked. So all the graphics are being drawn on the kernel framebuffer in vesa mode iirc. Part of being the Universal Operating System involves not breaking the experience for users on older hardware if we don't have too
@@pylotlight The Debian people are always open to new volunteers, and new proposals, but keep in mind almost nothing gets done in Debian with out a working prototype. The entire distro is managed with less then 1000 volunteers most of whom aren't paid. jamming a display server on the netinst and first iso, is no easy feat. The early Ubuntu devs tried it back in 05-06 range, couldn't do it, and ended up forking off some code from an outfit called morphos to create the livecd environment and then writing a new installer completely. It might be doable with wayland nowadays, but you ain't getting X11 on there I can tell you that. Sorry for the long winded war story. Wasn't even my war i just watched it happen on irc.
It's important to note that updated versions of some of the software, including the Linux kernel, are available in the official Debian backports repository. I'm currently running kernel 6.1 on Debian 11 which came with 5.10 out of the box. New flatpak, libreoffice and such are also available there if needed. So using Debian stable with the availability of flatpak *and* backports is way easier than it used to be: you still have a rock solid base which doesn't suddenly break on you because some GRUB or systemd stuff got an update, but selected apps can be updated to their newest versions if needed. It's also worth mentioning that if one wants something close to latest and greatest then there's Debian unstable branch which contrary to its name is no less stable than e.g. Arch. Great for enthusiasts and Linux youtubers :).
There's also Debian Testing (named "Trixie" once Bookworm stable is officially released), which would be like running something akin semi-rolling, similar to Fedora. Debian defaults to stable, but you really have a lot of options in terms of how on edge you want to run it; that's what I love about Debian- you always have all the choices available for you within the same system. -edit: typo
Stable means software versions don't change much, that is what makes Arch "unstable". By that definition Debian Sid is just as unstable. If we're talking about "unstable" in the sense that the system might break on you then Sid is way more unstable than Arch from experience. Not only that but on Arch you can check their mainpage in case something requires manual intervention, Debian doesn't have that.
@@benign4823 > If we're talking about "unstable" in the sense that the system might break on you then Sid is way more unstable than Arch from experience. One person's experience is too small of a sample size to matter in a grand scheme of things. So let's put personal experience aside and concentrate on technical factual data. Arch doesn't support partial upgrades: you are supposed to upgrade everything at once or not upgrade at all, otherwise you should expect breakages. And that's a problem because new software versions may have grave bugs, and the only supported way of keeping the old working version is not upgrading at all meaning that _everything else_ doesn't receive bug and security fixes. Debian practices allow holding packages back without breaking other stuff thanks to automatic versioned dependencies against shared libraries. Arch kernel upgrades overwrite currently running kernel wiping its modules which make the running system half-borked until a reboot. For example, inserting a USB drive may not work as it requires a kernel module to be loaded and the only one available is from a different kernel version and therefor fails to load. Also, if new kernel doesn't boot then you don't have a backup unless you prepared one in advance yourself, and the only way of fixing will be booting from a live media and manually reinstalling the kernel from there. Most other distributions, including Debian, save a few previous kernels installed in case you have an issue with the new one, so you always have a working backup kernel available. Debian also has apt-listbugs. It integrates into apt and checks the bugtracker for serious bugs for all packages which are being installed or upgraded. User has a choice of ignoring specific bugs (and they will not be nagged about again), or _dodging_ them: that package is held back and pinned at its current working version, and only when that bug is fixed and the fixed version is uploaded to repository then the pin is automatically removed and that package is allowed to be upgraded. Such an easy way of not having to deal with like 80% of serious issues appearing in new software versions! AFAIK Arch doesn't have anything similar. The list goes on and on. I get that you're using Arch BTW, but there's a reason Debian turns 30 later this year and is still going strong.
@@alex84632 there were (there are) (un)official isos with non free firmware... Not that easy to find in the site. I always googled "debian iso non free firmware" to get there.
Yep I agree IMO just choose the big 3....Debian, Arch or Fedora And go from there all the other distros are just noise Right now I am running Debian 12 and its not bad at all
Debian's motto is "The Universal Operating System", so the installer has to work on every sort of system out there, assuming as little as possible about the hardware. They have their priorities right. Fashion trends are not important immediately, but a good installer will give users options to get there. They have live images too.
I was already strongly considering going to Debian 12 after it finally got released, and this video solidifies that decision. It was the first distro I was running and the distro I ran for the longest before starting to distrohop like crazy. But looking back, I can value some of the simplicity Debian gave me. Outdated packages were never a problem, maybe they couldn't do all the fancy sh*t that I never ended up using anyway on my rolling release desktops, but they did the job, and did it well.
Debian 12 also officially supports LinuxCNC, the open source software for CNC machine control, be it a laser, mill, lathe, and even 6 DOF robots, well anything up to 9 axis, and about a gazillion inputs and outputs! 😃
I've installed Debian 12 a few weeks ago and it has been the best choice for me. Even I've used Fedora for a time, but I had a lot of issues with Nvidia and some packages I needed. Obviously I have switched the APT repostories from bookworm to testing to get the lastest packages after installing it
Someone somewhere had warned me from directly using the testing repo. I guess thats why I used the codename for the next version instead of the 'testing' repository. I think the reason for it was constant updates flooding in or something. If using testing is good enough long term then I might switch too! :)
@@peacemekka The 'testing' (as well as testing-updates and testing-security) repo is just a link to whatever the next codename version repo is as far as I can recall, so in this case+time of posting, 'testing' is the same as Bookworm until 'stable' gets pointed there when it releases and 'testing' gets pointed to the new codename and the cycle repeats. Edit: Also add non-free-firmware for Bookworm and beyond if you're using eg firmware-realtek, firmware-iwlwifi, or other firmware that was in non-free. The firmware has been split out into a separate non-free-firmware repo starting with Bookworm.
I've been using Bookworm with KDE for a few weeks and have been loving it. Wayland on KDE isn't quite where I need it to be yet, so I'm still using X11 (and will need to through Debian 13, at least). Otherwise, no complaints! Debian is fantastic when you just need a system that works the same way every time you turn it on. You're locked into certain bugs through each release, but you can at least rest easy knowing that you won't see any new bugs pop up at the worst possible moment (especially and including bugs which could potentially render your system unusable).
@@alexstone691 The biggest issue was that I was getting random kwin crashes from time to time; I don't think X11 has crashed once on me with extensive usage. There were also just a bunch of weird, little things that make quality of life worse. Just 2 examples: - If I launch LibreOffice while it's a pinned icon on the task manager, it opens up a new icon instead of remaining under the active icon (the same goes for Chromium progressive web apps). - If you tile two windows side by side (left/right sides of screen) and the left window is active, there's a huge unclickable area for the right window near the shadow of the left window. Because of my peculiar workflow, this in particular is a deal-breaker.
True story: I was assisting someone who wanted to move away from Windows since their Windows XP computer was long in the tooth....I showed this person Linux Mint.....ZorinOS....Pop-OS....Fedora....Ubuntu....OpenSuse...and KDE Neon....and when they kept asking me "what else ya got"?...I finally just showed them Debian 11....I then showed him the LXqT....LxDE....Cinnamon......Gnome......XFCE desktops....and when I showed him MATE?...he chose THAT running Debian 11. Sometimes it doesn't have to be flashy?....it has to be comprehensible to the user. He had no problem using LibreOffice...Firefox..and eVince PDF reader...now?...he calls me almost every few months to thank me profusely for making his PC "a joy to use" again! So while I happen to be a "Fedoran" for LIFE?...there are some folks out there who don't need the bright, flashy stuff....they just need an OS that makes them productive again without getting in the way.
I install the Window Manager I use after the initial install. I console boot. I don't run a Display Manager. On initial reboot my PC comes up in the console. Then I install a temporary Window Manager and work in that to setup my system. It is more involved but I like the finer control.
I've been a Debian fanboy for years, don't care about old packages if it means that trademark Debian stability. Sadly I had to go with Manjaro on this PC because Debian 11 doesn't support my 6600. Might be moving back home soon though, Debian's the best.
Tu as nommé un chapitre "Debian 21 is a great desktop" I was looking for this video, using debian unstable since january and didn't have any problem until now! My favorite distro by far. Stable vanilla experience, up to date desktops and deb ecosystem. Thanks for the video
I had this idea for a while now - rock stable and slow-moving Debian base with flatpaks for user applications, but I never could be bothered to actually format my SSD and test it. Thanks for checking it out!
Same idea but i am thinking of going even older with almalinux, ive been using silverblue with basically everythinf in a container or a flatpak and i had no issues except few apps
@@alexstone691 if you've got the storage to spare then cool. But me personally I feel paranoid when I see flatpak dependencies installing(the size of each! especially when I see an app that is a few megabytes by itself but pulling a ~400mb gnome dependency!). Sure a few apps are cool but it quickly escalates when you have a lot of apps. I do use flatpaks, but I always prefer a distro native package over them.
Debian rocks it's like the best all rounder os for me. Runs great on old stuff and runs great on modern stuff. when you get debian you have the most stable linux experience which is also very customizable. If you are a debloat nerd like me, follow an online guide for installing raw debian-minimal with some window manager. you will get a system running at 250 mbs of ram used on cold boot.
Thanks, Nick, for an honest and balanced review. After I started my Linux journey, almost two decades ago, I constantly switched between Ubuntu and Debian releases. However, when the latter resolved enough number of manual 'fixes', I have never been disappointed with any new Debian releases. It's perfect on the server, or on the desktop. Cheers.
Great to see Nick showcasing this amazing Linux distro! Debian 12 looks like a great release, and I'll probably try LMDE 6 when it comes out (based on Debian 12). Having the non-free firmware included in the official ISO means that people new to Debian won't accidentally download a free software-only ISO, and have missing drivers. To make Debian a bit more beginner-friendly, they just need a driver manager (for Nvidia graphics), localisation manager, and a graphical upgrade tool (assuming Gnome Software and KDE Discover can't already do distro upgrades for Debian). Hopefully we'll see these things in the future. The Debian live ISOs have the Calamares installer, which you can use instead of the classic Debian installer. You can launch Calamares after booting into the live environment. Calamares doesn't have as many features compared to the Debian installer, but it's easier to use I guess.
Truly enjoyed this video. I think Debian and the team that builds it represents the high bar in technology collaboration and impact. Open source and free software continues to drive innovation and your excellent presentation has made Linux a more relatable concept.
honestly it’s great to see debian get an upgrade, even though I don’t use debian at all. I personally go to arch, but watch fedora changes- if a new technology is good enough for fedora, I’m adopting it
I don't care if it has an "old look." Old very often works, and works well at that. How something functions is my litmus test, not colors, or fonts, or the shape of buttons, or anything like that.
I'm absolutely loving Debian 12 with Gnome and backports. My ideal distro; the one I've been dreaming of for years. Stable, good looking and it's easy to use the latest versions of apps by way of Backports and Flatpak. I really couldn't ask for more.
Use debian stable for servers and debian testing for desktops, nothing better than this if you just wanna get your work done and not think about your operating system, both are solid once you set it up according to your needs.
This is a bad advice as testing while its stable it sometimes introduces broken packages and may require user intervention and probably following mailing lists for such problems
@@alexstone691 I would even say debian testing is less stable than Manjaro Arch.. And that's saying something lol. No hate toward Manjaro, it's just that manjaro is not as stable as vanilla arch.
@@alexstone691 the packages are introduced to unstable first then if and when no RC-bugs are reported it moves to testing.Before adding a package to unstable repos it is vetted throughly and if it is found to be broken its not gonna be added even to the unstable repos. so this is how it moves unstable>testing>stable. ive tried to include the official document links here too for your ease but its keep getting deleted because of the comment filters.
I run Debian Unstable on my own workstations. I could upgrade every day, but I keep it down to a bit less than that. ;) Yes, that can be a lot of fun when things break. Keeps you on your toes.
I was distrohopping much more than the usual this whole year. Decided to come back to Debian since Debian 9 and to give it a try to Debian 12 Testing and oh god, I'm feeling like I came back home after travelling for a long time
I have Debian 12 RC installed with Gnome. Since Debian 12 started coming with firmware and multimedia codecs by default, it's a terrific desktop now. You DO need knowledge to fill in utiliities (my choices - sudo apt install gufw neofetch lm-sensors nautilus-admin gnome-cards-data pulseaudio-utils flatpak gnome-software-plugin-flatpak gnome-shell-extension-manager gnome-package-updater). Steam can be installed directly from Steam's repo from several articles guiding you. And there's a zillion bloat games and other unnecessary gnome apps to delete. Once set up it's solid as stone.
My first and current os is Ubuntu. And it's so much annoying the fans suddenly starts running so fast (as much as possible), heating issue, laggy. Now I decided to switch to debian. But I am in confusion should I choose debian or mint. My laptop configuration Core i3 5th gen Intel processor, 8 gb ram, 120gb ssd
@@LazyProgrammer when i started with linuc Iwas also having these condierations. I realised, it is all debian anyhow, I just get to choose what goes in and what not. It is super stable, like incredibly stable ... I had no issues with it all these years. One thing, I am not big in shiny new stuff, so that may be a thing. But All the tools i actually need I have them and all works really well.
Great video! It's exactly why I use Debian. I enthusiastically recommend Debian over Ubuntu usually, simply because of stability and it's "good enough" even for gaming. However, you are right about Linux moving fast in that area. Been using Debian 12 (latest) at work and home since December 2022, it's been ROCK SOLID. My last PC at work is using Debian 10... which has also been rock solid, going to upgrade it next week.
Thank you for this video! _Finally_ the release is in sight ^^ and thank you for showing me the Synaptic Package Manager. It had a three-clicks-solution for my "held back package"-problem :D
I've always recommended Debian for desktop because of the rock solid stability and the truly extensive documentation and wide compatibility for when you need to install a 3rd party package.
Great video. Thanks for breaking down the details for us. I've been running my home and business on Debian stable for years. I run Linux Mint on laptops because it 'just works' but for work and main workstation, the Debian stable philosophy and software suits perfectly. We're not cutting edge anything here. After all, my main workstation is still HASWELL in 2023. :)
Perfect timing! I was just considering switching to Debian for more stability compared to a rolling release distro. I'm still on the fence, because I have gotten used to always having the latest packages, but this video certainly helps!
Using Debian as Desktop distro since Woody, i never found a better desktop distro since Wheezy. Also never had any need to use some clunky stuff like flatpak. On windows user crys about new desktop designs and want the 10 yr old look and feel back, on linux: "Oh no, it's not the latest and greatest", i don't get it. And yes, i play my games, have the lastetest nvidia-driver and the latest blender running on it. Most of the time, solutions are just a quick google search away. It's easyer then to uninstall bloatware on windows 10. XD
Debian Sid user for 2 years now. It stopped my hopping and runs perfectly. Not a single issue so far on my T480 (with unfree drivers). Looking forward to the upcoming versions of Debian. Good video tho.
Love Debian. It's the rock solid foundation from which so many other distros and projects are built up from. It's good that the desktop is now for accessible for being used as a solid workstation with less hoops to jump through. Who knows what people will come up with for the desktop with a more accessible solid foundation to stand on? I'm looking forward to seeing what creative minds will do to it.
On my side I use debian testing, very stable, no problem at all. But I suggest that you know how to run debian, because, sometimes (very rare times) you can get in trouble with some updates... But most of the times, upgrade are ok and you are on a "rolling release"...
Thanks for the review, I've been using Linux since 1999. While I was studying computer science, I used Slackware. Debian was the other one that I was willing to consider, but I never did. Slackware did everything I needed. After finishing college , I worked in a Microsoft shop and used Macs at home. Now, I'm using Mint and love it and regret not using Debian all those years ago. The learning back then would have helped me now. That being said, I have and old MacBook Air with Slackware 15. I love going to the command line doomby-doombing out changes to config file and keeping on going.
It appears that GNOME 43 is the mobile-friendly environment I always wanted, and it is quite valuable as a desktop environment too. Not to mention that it's also the most gorgeous of the bunch.
I'm actually considering switching because the sheer update frequency on fedora and the fact that it forces you to restart if you do it through the app center is pretty annoying. I also mostly use flatpaks now with a few exceptions.
I've been a Debian Sid (unstable) user since forever ago. It's ironic that Debian's so-called unstable is far more stable than most other distros out there. It's basically a high-quality rolling release.
All bloggers: debian is very stable and well tested, you are unlikely to run into a bug Me: found two bugs in debian stable, one in the kernel, the other in the text installer. I use text installer, btw. No, not because I'm a cool hacker (I am not). I just like the way it looks and is easier to control without a mouse. Overall, Debian is one of my favorite distributions. And one of the few that still supports 32-bit x86. So I install it with XFCE on older computers. I don't like two things. First, by the end of its life cycle, it becomes outdated, I get bored and install something more recent. Second, I'm missing something like an AUR. I use a couple of programs that are not in the repositories. So I have to install them with more complex methods (eg build from source).
Debian was my first Linux experience in late 1998, i've used windowmaker at first, then enlightenment.. and right now i'm using Debian 12 since 3 months or so.. many greetings from Brunswick in Germany 🙂
I got into Linux about a year ago, and distro hopped half a dozen times. Mint, Ubuntu, Manjaro, NixOS, back to Mint, and finally to Debian 12 Plasma. I think I've finally found a distro I'll be sticking with long-term. NixOS was a nightmare for a beginner. Ubuntu was okay. I liked Manjaro, and Mint was my main distro, and I really enjoyed it but still always wanted something "more" so I kept hopping. Debian has me hooked! Huge thanks to all of the devs, maintainers and contributors to ALL of these projects.
If trends like Flatpak advancements and desktops getting more mature continue as they have been, I'll seriously consider switching to Debian with Debain 14 or so (from Arch). Desktop Linux used to feel way too immature for me to intentionally use an older version, but this seems to be changing. Debian 12 is not yet there for me (for example, because of gaming), but I'm definitely watching it with great interest.
Yeah, 12 is still going to be a bit early for a few things. Gaming is one, but HDR is another big one. HDR is not really supported yet, but KDE plasma 6.0 is supposed to be adding HDR support, and I expect other DEs will be starting to get it in the next couple years. The next debian stable release that has further flatpak progress and HDR supporting desktop environments might be worth considering for me, but I don't want to be waiting on that to make it in for years.
Salut, thanks for your videos! I switched from Ubuntu to the testing version of Debian 12, and it really does have everything I need as a developer. I face less bugs and issues than before and the user experience is really smooth depending on which desktop environment we use. Greetings from Normandy :)
This comes in clutch for me as I've been planning on moving away from Arch and my first option was debian. Stability is important for me. On arch I went for months (maybe even a year) without updating cause I dont really like things changing all the time and that ended up breaking things and causing dependency hells over and over again. Happy to see debian will be an even better option now!
I put Debian 12 on a Ventoy USB along with Pop_OS, Ubuntu 23.04, and Mint Vera. After live booting each I landed on Debian 12 Gnome after comparing them for the umpteenth time that night. I will say that I accidentally installed a boot partition to the nvme and hdd. That led to Grub issues and I ended up using MX Workbench to live boot the laptop again and used the Boot Repair utility to reinstall Grub. After a reboot it was great to have a 12 year old HP laptop feel similar to when it was new. I feel like I can do anything with those ISOs nearby now. I’m glad Debian is the backbone for them all. I left Windows 10 in 2017 and haven’t looked back. I feel like I graduated from the beginner distros to intermediate by using Debian. Here’s to learning Linux and moving toward advanced in the future.
Debian's great but people keep forgetting something, Debian has decently modern packages when a new release is out, given that debian releases are 2 years apart, after 6-8 months of Debian 12 being out, it already starts to become kinda outdated for many people and people who wants to try debian gets pushed back cus "its old". After a year or so of release, people just consider debian as a grandpa with unusably old packages and then a new release appears after 2 years, its decently modern and the cycle continues. Debian's own manual suggests normal users to use Debian Testing due to it always having modern packages and being mostly stable. Im genuinely considering debian 12 from Arch, I did use Debian 11 for quite a while early this year
That about the 'testing' branch… I had never read that part of the manual. 🤯 I find it interesting that it mentioned that, because my reason for switching to that branch was because I wanted KDE Neon without the handholding features it inherited from Kubuntu LTS!
@@TheLinuxEXP cant say everything is magically solved due to flatpaks tho, stuff like window managers and many commandline programs arent flatpaks, so it kinda sucks. But given how fast Linux developement is headed, we might just have a minimal immutable core and everything including the DE/WM as a flatpak.
Mint is a great choice for anyone looking for quick productivity on a stable system, beginner or advanced. For a workstation, in my opinion, it is a great choice. I still like Debian, though, even if I haven't used it as a desktop distro for a while.
Great video. Thanks, man! Linux user since late 90s. Tried basically every distro except for the really obscure ones. Recently disillusioned with Manjaro, tried OpenSuSE for 3 months and it wasn't for me. Haven't looked at Debian for a long time (except as a server). I like what I see here. Going to go for it.
I always run Debian on my servers, SID on a newer laptop too which is always very stable for me. I have deb stable on an older machine too and all versions have been very stable over the years.
Hi Nick, just as an update to your excellent review. Debian 12 now uses a Calemares installer which makes it just as easy to install as any of the top Distros. The big plpus for me is that with an ageing MacBookPro any distro based on Ubuntu 24.04 and that includes Mint 22 takes almost 4 mins to boot! Also Fedora 40 with ever advancing kernels is becoming difficult to get Broadcom wifi working. The trusty RPMFusion kmod-wl method is failing. So... installed Debian 12 with Gnome and followed their Wiki WL on Broadcom and my MacBook is up and running. I think I will be resisting chasing the latest and greatest from now on!
PICK THE KDE and it won't look old any more.. I ran XEBIAN- which is Debian 12 with xfce on it (testing) and had NO issues . I'm not very techy and had no problem with any of it... and it worked GREAT with my older equipment with no problems!!!
Debian with the Cinnamon DE has been my daily for at least 3 years now, since I experienced a lot of bugs within Mint. Downloads with the non-free firmware have been available far longer than that.
Great to see Debian get some love. As somebody who checked out Linux because Win 8 was a mess I really appreciate it's stability. Like others pointed out here, though the stable release does have a reputation for being a bit old, there is both a "testing" branch which keeps things more up to date, and a "sid" branch which resembles a rolling release. But for me personally, I haven't had any issues with a delay in packages. Browsers are always up to date (including Firefox, Firefox-esr and Chromium); and as mentioned above flatpaks, snaps, or app images can remedy those issues regardless of the repos. Certainly a distro I'd wholeheartedly recommend for anybody with similar preferences to me.
Debian 12 is boss. The new installer, flatpacks and the latest DEs makes it a competitor in the average user daily driver arena along with Mint, Fedora & Ubuntu, without compromising its bulletproof stability. If my data, my work progress, or productivity are on the line, I only trust Debian.
I just love Debian 12 with Cinnamon desktop. The first I do is installing the liquorix kernel and wine, because I use it mainly for music production. My main Daws are Bitwig, Reaper and Ardour, and now Live 12, the latter will run under wine.
I have just come to Debian for the first time ever from Arch and Arch based distros, bleeding edge to rock solid stable. I'm hooked! It's really nice and with my sweet KDE theme and all my other ricing there is no visible difference whatsoever between Arch KDE and Debian KDE. I have a lot of experience in Ubuntu so I was sudo apt installing everything from the get-go, I don't even need the software center but it's nice to have.
Thanks for making this video! I've been testing pre-release builds of Debian 12 on their testing branch on a secondary PC, but with it being officially released on the stable branch, I have a 'GO' signal to go ahead and update my servers, all of which currently run Debian 10! (I usually stick to even-numbered Debian and Devuan releases)
I've been running MX Linux on a home theater PC for well over a year now, which uses Debian Stable as its base. It uses a best of both worlds approach for that kind of system, of course using Debian it's extremely solid, but also came with extra refinements like newer driver support and flatpak out of the box. Looks as though Debian has caught up in that regard, which is nice all around. MX still has some curation and QoL improvements so I'd say they're still worth checking out.
Ever since Debian 12 was released, I've been running Debian with KDE on X11 (due to ongoing NVIDIA driver issues) I have zero complaints about it, have never experienced a crash due to instability and even most of the games I do play run fine under Proton & proprietary drivers. Although the kernel is older than on my Arch install, I'll happily take stability+flatpak since my use case is changing from experimentation to getting real work done.
I've been so out of the loop on Linux for years now. I didn't realise 12 was that new when I downloaded it last week, been pretty happy with it so far.
I love debian 💙. Just gave it a try a few weeks ago and its perfect for me. I need stable software, not latest features. And though I'm in the terminal 98% of the time I use i3wm without a desktop environment. Debian is my personal best linux experience so far.
Man, the Linux desktop experience has changed A LOT in the last couple of years. I used to daily Debian Testing, moved to Mint but honestly kept doing stuff the old school way
Sounds like the first Debian version I can recommend to (some) non-professionals. Wading through manuals to get a mostly working computer is not the definition of fun for quite a lot of people.
It's important to clarify that the Steam Flatpak comes with its own set of graphics drivers (Mesa) that are usually pretty up to date, so older drivers in Debian shouldn't be much of an issue. In fact every Flatpak app uses the Mesa version that comes with Flatpak runtimes.
Ah Debian. The old reliable brick house of Linux. It's not fancy, it doesn't do anything super out there. But when it comes to reliability, Debian is your best bet. You can spin up a Debian server, ignore it for a decade and it'll be fine. Speaking of rock solid: Linux Mint have a version based on Debian that I've been curious about. I wonder how it compares to their Ubuntu based version and if there's a noticeable difference for a regular day to day user.
The current Linux Mint based on Debian has older packages than the one based on ubuntu. It is mainly because of the version it is based on. If you want a new Linux Mint based on Debian 12 i think you might need to wait a bit till they release it.
I've been on this Linux journey for couple years now, I've been using Manjaro, Elementary OS, Ubuntu and now last couple weeks Debian, and i must admit Debian is the most trouble free experience by far. With all the previous distros I tried I had problems with screen flickering i915 psr, suspend and battery draining on my Tuxedo Infinity Book pro 14, meaning that with Debian I can actually focus on things that are most interesting to me.
I'm using Debian 12 Bookworm about a month and I must say that this version is the best Debian made. Totally reliable and stable. Combining with Flatpak you turn the system a power ful one.
I find Debian 12 has been making a great base for Steam flatpak gaming on an AMD GPU - since the flatpak handles the Mesa bit for you! been using it this way for about 3 months now
It's good to see some love to the base of basically all the distros I've used. I don't even remember when it was the last time I used Debian and, because of that, I saw some things in the video that got me like "Wow, they seriously didn't change that one". But everything else looks kinda current.
I've been using Debian Testing as my first "everyday" use of Linux on my laptop (I still use Windows on Desktop since I've not been happy with hardware compatiblity.) I've been really happy with it and will probably follow Bookworm into stable and stay there, using backports as needed.
about the installer: i actually like debian's installer, because it's so much faster than the others (for example: it does not take a whole 2 minutes to just manage partitions), and ability to choose desktop environment in installer is just great!
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they disabled the transparent slider in the debian 12 mate panel settings. I am doing my own spinoff for christians with customization. This modification is causing problems for my theme. I hope the fix it before they release the final thing.
Why am I not allowed to so much as mention M1nt in your comment section?
As a POPos user I have been facing some issues lately like bluetooth disconnecting intermittently and mouse(wireless) not connecting during startup. So I decided to give Arch-Gnome a try and I love it. I find Debian too dated for my use case for eg I use nvim and it still runs on version 0.6 (in Debian) which doesn't have lua support like in 0.9. These minor issue can be fixed through Flatpaks but I guess for very basic softwares like vim I should not rely on Flatpak (imho) as it is hard to figure out the XDG path in flatpak builds(i am a noob) . Debian is Great but Arch seems to be more focused on home use and Debian on server use. I may be wrong as I am most often.
HEY DUDE i have this exact computer and i already removed the spinning disk hdd for a similar sized SSD.
BUT when i tried installing debian i had problems logging in
SO i installed elementry os instead and now similar log in problems.
I STILL get the apple ON SOUND so i suspect some firmware is borking my linux log ins.
i was able to use both linux installs for several log ins and ownloaded browsers , updated both systems
BUT now a week later it keeps asking me for my root or username login while still in terminal and then it just leaves me hanging at a terminal bash flashing cursor and i have no idea what to do?
AM i supposed to modify the firmware to use linux w/o any problems?
i honestly have no insterest in ever using mac os as we have a ten yr newer mac thats actually already slower than this one since my bro just reinstalled mac os on here before i started this.
Can someone help me when i install debian 12 on my hp all-in-one it just stops in configuring apt
Former Debian contributer here.The installer moves very slowly in terms of graphics. This is because the iso can't ship a display server for technical reasons related to memory usage limits, basically the installer wants to run in as little ram as possible. 64MB or less was the target last i looked. So all the graphics are being drawn on the kernel framebuffer in vesa mode iirc. Part of being the Universal Operating System involves not breaking the experience for users on older hardware if we don't have too
Thanks for the explanation!
There should be a spin/iso separate for a better graphical installer or something :P
@@pylotlight the best graphic is that of the non-graphical installer 😎
@@pylotlight The Debian people are always open to new volunteers, and new proposals, but keep in mind almost nothing gets done in Debian with out a working prototype. The entire distro is managed with less then 1000 volunteers most of whom aren't paid. jamming a display server on the netinst and first iso, is no easy feat. The early Ubuntu devs tried it back in 05-06 range, couldn't do it, and ended up forking off some code from an outfit called morphos to create the livecd environment and then writing a new installer completely. It might be doable with wayland nowadays, but you ain't getting X11 on there I can tell you that. Sorry for the long winded war story. Wasn't even my war i just watched it happen on irc.
@@pylotlight Oh god... no. Silly fragmentation like that is not a good dev experience.
Pretty funny that debian stable now has a newer kernel than mint
Yeah, it is funny. Clem was asked about whether 6.1 would be offered in the upcoming 21.2 release on the blog, but I never saw any answer made.
@@edmundt.buckley6858 ❤
It's important to note that updated versions of some of the software, including the Linux kernel, are available in the official Debian backports repository. I'm currently running kernel 6.1 on Debian 11 which came with 5.10 out of the box. New flatpak, libreoffice and such are also available there if needed.
So using Debian stable with the availability of flatpak *and* backports is way easier than it used to be: you still have a rock solid base which doesn't suddenly break on you because some GRUB or systemd stuff got an update, but selected apps can be updated to their newest versions if needed.
It's also worth mentioning that if one wants something close to latest and greatest then there's Debian unstable branch which contrary to its name is no less stable than e.g. Arch. Great for enthusiasts and Linux youtubers :).
im in the same condition as you, LMDE 5 based on Debian 11 with kernel 6.1
anything is more stable than arch
There's also Debian Testing (named "Trixie" once Bookworm stable is officially released), which would be like running something akin semi-rolling, similar to Fedora. Debian defaults to stable, but you really have a lot of options in terms of how on edge you want to run it; that's what I love about Debian- you always have all the choices available for you within the same system. -edit: typo
Stable means software versions don't change much, that is what makes Arch "unstable".
By that definition Debian Sid is just as unstable.
If we're talking about "unstable" in the sense that the system might break on you then Sid is way more unstable than Arch from experience.
Not only that but on Arch you can check their mainpage in case something requires manual intervention, Debian doesn't have that.
@@benign4823
> If we're talking about "unstable" in the sense that the system might break on you then Sid is way more unstable than Arch from experience.
One person's experience is too small of a sample size to matter in a grand scheme of things. So let's put personal experience aside and concentrate on technical factual data.
Arch doesn't support partial upgrades: you are supposed to upgrade everything at once or not upgrade at all, otherwise you should expect breakages. And that's a problem because new software versions may have grave bugs, and the only supported way of keeping the old working version is not upgrading at all meaning that _everything else_ doesn't receive bug and security fixes. Debian practices allow holding packages back without breaking other stuff thanks to automatic versioned dependencies against shared libraries.
Arch kernel upgrades overwrite currently running kernel wiping its modules which make the running system half-borked until a reboot. For example, inserting a USB drive may not work as it requires a kernel module to be loaded and the only one available is from a different kernel version and therefor fails to load. Also, if new kernel doesn't boot then you don't have a backup unless you prepared one in advance yourself, and the only way of fixing will be booting from a live media and manually reinstalling the kernel from there. Most other distributions, including Debian, save a few previous kernels installed in case you have an issue with the new one, so you always have a working backup kernel available.
Debian also has apt-listbugs. It integrates into apt and checks the bugtracker for serious bugs for all packages which are being installed or upgraded. User has a choice of ignoring specific bugs (and they will not be nagged about again), or _dodging_ them: that package is held back and pinned at its current working version, and only when that bug is fixed and the fixed version is uploaded to repository then the pin is automatically removed and that package is allowed to be upgraded. Such an easy way of not having to deal with like 80% of serious issues appearing in new software versions! AFAIK Arch doesn't have anything similar.
The list goes on and on. I get that you're using Arch BTW, but there's a reason Debian turns 30 later this year and is still going strong.
The hardest part about Debian is trying to find the right iso😅
Their website is… not great
Now that the official ISO includes non-free firmware, it should be a lot easier
I use the net install.
@@1pcfred used it too before but it failed to detect my wifi. Wasn't a great experience
@@alex84632 there were (there are) (un)official isos with non free firmware... Not that easy to find in the site. I always googled "debian iso non free firmware" to get there.
Debian 12 user here:
It’s amazing! Truly, it’s actually so much better than Ubuntu and it’s super easy to use
I concur!
Debian is always the best. If there was something better I'd be running that.
im waiting the release day after tomorrow in June 10, im anxious.
@@1pcfred Fedora is pretty good, but DNF can be sooo slow, even if you modify how many concurrent downloads are going on, etc.
Yep I agree IMO just choose the big 3....Debian, Arch or Fedora
And go from there all the other distros are just noise
Right now I am running Debian 12 and its not bad at all
Debian's motto is "The Universal Operating System", so the installer has to work on every sort of system out there, assuming as little as possible about the hardware. They have their priorities right. Fashion trends are not important immediately, but a good installer will give users options to get there. They have live images too.
I was already strongly considering going to Debian 12 after it finally got released, and this video solidifies that decision. It was the first distro I was running and the distro I ran for the longest before starting to distrohop like crazy. But looking back, I can value some of the simplicity Debian gave me. Outdated packages were never a problem, maybe they couldn't do all the fancy sh*t that I never ended up using anyway on my rolling release desktops, but they did the job, and did it well.
what is the difference between choosing multiple DEs in Debian and only 1? which is better and why?
@@orca_ballkde and gnome is goat. For old pc I would recommend lxqt
Debian +xfce will always have a special place in my heart.
I prefer the full version, but to each their own. Ubuntu is great, without the Snapd, and add Bleachbit, Preload, TLS, and Stacer. (;
Like Arch and i3
what is the difference between choosing multiple DEs in Debian and only 1? which is better and why?
Mine also
It’s the first linux distro i used a decade plus ago and I haven’t distro hopped at all. Changed the theme but that’s it. Seems the way.
Debian gets better!
Tell me how I should encourage my family to switch to Linux after Windows 10 Support ends in 2025. I can't throw all hardware in the garbage 🤔
@@Gabesvault If they won't switch make it into servers, give the hardware a new use!
@@Gabesvault tell them it's windows 11
@@Vancha112 😂👍
@@Gabesvault "hey let's not spend another 1-10k we don't need to."
Debian 12 also officially supports LinuxCNC, the open source software for CNC machine control, be it a laser, mill, lathe, and even 6 DOF robots, well anything up to 9 axis, and about a gazillion inputs and outputs! 😃
Oh cool! Are you guys using LinuxCNC more in industry now?
I've installed Debian 12 a few weeks ago and it has been the best choice for me. Even I've used Fedora for a time, but I had a lot of issues with Nvidia and some packages I needed.
Obviously I have switched the APT repostories from bookworm to testing to get the lastest packages after installing it
Someone somewhere had warned me from directly using the testing repo. I guess thats why I used the codename for the next version instead of the 'testing' repository. I think the reason for it was constant updates flooding in or something.
If using testing is good enough long term then I might switch too! :)
@@peacemekka The 'testing' (as well as testing-updates and testing-security) repo is just a link to whatever the next codename version repo is as far as I can recall, so in this case+time of posting, 'testing' is the same as Bookworm until 'stable' gets pointed there when it releases and 'testing' gets pointed to the new codename and the cycle repeats.
Edit: Also add non-free-firmware for Bookworm and beyond if you're using eg firmware-realtek, firmware-iwlwifi, or other firmware that was in non-free. The firmware has been split out into a separate non-free-firmware repo starting with Bookworm.
I've been using Bookworm with KDE for a few weeks and have been loving it. Wayland on KDE isn't quite where I need it to be yet, so I'm still using X11 (and will need to through Debian 13, at least). Otherwise, no complaints! Debian is fantastic when you just need a system that works the same way every time you turn it on. You're locked into certain bugs through each release, but you can at least rest easy knowing that you won't see any new bugs pop up at the worst possible moment (especially and including bugs which could potentially render your system unusable).
What in particular is not working for you on kde wayland? I found it a pretty pleasant experience
@@alexstone691 The biggest issue was that I was getting random kwin crashes from time to time; I don't think X11 has crashed once on me with extensive usage. There were also just a bunch of weird, little things that make quality of life worse. Just 2 examples:
- If I launch LibreOffice while it's a pinned icon on the task manager, it opens up a new icon instead of remaining under the active icon (the same goes for Chromium progressive web apps).
- If you tile two windows side by side (left/right sides of screen) and the left window is active, there's a huge unclickable area for the right window near the shadow of the left window. Because of my peculiar workflow, this in particular is a deal-breaker.
Flatpak doesn't work for me. However, Nala is better anyways.
True story: I was assisting someone who wanted to move away from Windows since their Windows XP computer was long in the tooth....I showed this person Linux Mint.....ZorinOS....Pop-OS....Fedora....Ubuntu....OpenSuse...and KDE Neon....and when they kept asking me "what else ya got"?...I finally just showed them Debian 11....I then showed him the LXqT....LxDE....Cinnamon......Gnome......XFCE desktops....and when I showed him MATE?...he chose THAT running Debian 11. Sometimes it doesn't have to be flashy?....it has to be comprehensible to the user. He had no problem using LibreOffice...Firefox..and eVince PDF reader...now?...he calls me almost every few months to thank me profusely for making his PC "a joy to use" again! So while I happen to be a "Fedoran" for LIFE?...there are some folks out there who don't need the bright, flashy stuff....they just need an OS that makes them productive again without getting in the way.
As a Debian user, I found this overview of Debian 12 to be very thorough and informative. It is one of the best I have seen. Great job.
Been running debian sid for years. Highly recommend
Is that the unstable repo?
same here, I can't glorify it enough
Being able to pick your desktop environment when installing debian is very convenient. I wish more mainstream distros did so.
I install the Window Manager I use after the initial install. I console boot. I don't run a Display Manager. On initial reboot my PC comes up in the console. Then I install a temporary Window Manager and work in that to setup my system. It is more involved but I like the finer control.
@@1pcfredreal chads use tmux as their wm
@@aleclowry7654 gigachads use Twin
Wow! Looking forward to watching this new Linux Experiment video!
I've been a Debian fanboy for years, don't care about old packages if it means that trademark Debian stability. Sadly I had to go with Manjaro on this PC because Debian 11 doesn't support my 6600. Might be moving back home soon though, Debian's the best.
It is your 6600 so you support it.
People, pick ONE distro stick to it and get your work done. Your life will be much better when you STOP distro hopping.
Tu as nommé un chapitre "Debian 21 is a great desktop"
I was looking for this video, using debian unstable since january and didn't have any problem until now! My favorite distro by far. Stable vanilla experience, up to date desktops and deb ecosystem.
Thanks for the video
Woops, I’ll fix that!
@@TheLinuxEXP lol
wen dabion 22 eta?
I had this idea for a while now - rock stable and slow-moving Debian base with flatpaks for user applications, but I never could be bothered to actually format my SSD and test it.
Thanks for checking it out!
Same idea but i am thinking of going even older with almalinux, ive been using silverblue with basically everythinf in a container or a flatpak and i had no issues except few apps
Been using that for years, 98% jas worked without issue. Only my old wifi module had formware issues but got it manually and it's been rock solid
Flatpaks eat a shit ton of space though.
@@peacemekka i have a 120gb ssd and honestly have not noticed
@@alexstone691 if you've got the storage to spare then cool. But me personally I feel paranoid when I see flatpak dependencies installing(the size of each! especially when I see an app that is a few megabytes by itself but pulling a ~400mb gnome dependency!). Sure a few apps are cool but it quickly escalates when you have a lot of apps. I do use flatpaks, but I always prefer a distro native package over them.
Thanks for showcasing Debian 12 Nick! Good to see Debian getting closer to being a modern desktop experience.
i use arch btw
Debian rocks it's like the best all rounder os for me. Runs great on old stuff and runs great on modern stuff. when you get debian you have the most stable linux experience which is also very customizable. If you are a debloat nerd like me, follow an online guide for installing raw debian-minimal with some window manager. you will get a system running at 250 mbs of ram used on cold boot.
Thanks, Nick, for an honest and balanced review. After I started my Linux journey, almost two decades ago, I constantly switched between Ubuntu and Debian releases. However, when the latter resolved enough number of manual 'fixes', I have never been disappointed with any new Debian releases. It's perfect on the server, or on the desktop. Cheers.
Ok
Great to see Nick showcasing this amazing Linux distro! Debian 12 looks like a great release, and I'll probably try LMDE 6 when it comes out (based on Debian 12). Having the non-free firmware included in the official ISO means that people new to Debian won't accidentally download a free software-only ISO, and have missing drivers. To make Debian a bit more beginner-friendly, they just need a driver manager (for Nvidia graphics), localisation manager, and a graphical upgrade tool (assuming Gnome Software and KDE Discover can't already do distro upgrades for Debian). Hopefully we'll see these things in the future.
The Debian live ISOs have the Calamares installer, which you can use instead of the classic Debian installer. You can launch Calamares after booting into the live environment. Calamares doesn't have as many features compared to the Debian installer, but it's easier to use I guess.
LMDE is amazing, I will switch back to LMDE 6 to it when it does comes out
Just upgraded from Bullseye, everything went smoothly.
Truly enjoyed this video. I think Debian and the team that builds it represents the high bar in technology collaboration and impact. Open source and free software continues to drive innovation and your excellent presentation has made Linux a more relatable concept.
honestly it’s great to see debian get an upgrade, even though I don’t use debian at all. I personally go to arch, but watch fedora changes- if a new technology is good enough for fedora, I’m adopting it
A cool feature added in gnome 42 is the ability to extend your monitor as a virtual display via RDP, so you can use a tablet as a secondary screen.
I don't care if it has an "old look." Old very often works, and works well at that. How something functions is my litmus test, not colors, or fonts, or the shape of buttons, or anything like that.
I'm absolutely loving Debian 12 with Gnome and backports. My ideal distro; the one I've been dreaming of for years. Stable, good looking and it's easy to use the latest versions of apps by way of Backports and Flatpak. I really couldn't ask for more.
Use debian stable for servers and debian testing for desktops, nothing better than this if you just wanna get your work done and not think about your operating system, both are solid once you set it up according to your needs.
This is a bad advice as testing while its stable it sometimes introduces broken packages and may require user intervention and probably following mailing lists for such problems
@@alexstone691 I would even say debian testing is less stable than Manjaro Arch.. And that's saying something lol.
No hate toward Manjaro, it's just that manjaro is not as stable as vanilla arch.
@@Ironpants57 never used manjaro long enough for it to break as it was broken since it was always broken on install
@@alexstone691 the packages are introduced to unstable first then if and when no RC-bugs are reported it moves to testing.Before adding a package to unstable repos it is vetted throughly and if it is found to be broken its not gonna be added even to the unstable repos. so this is how it moves unstable>testing>stable. ive tried to include the official document links here too for your ease but its keep getting deleted because of the comment filters.
I run Debian Unstable on my own workstations. I could upgrade every day, but I keep it down to a bit less than that. ;)
Yes, that can be a lot of fun when things break. Keeps you on your toes.
I was distrohopping much more than the usual this whole year. Decided to come back to Debian since Debian 9 and to give it a try to Debian 12 Testing and oh god, I'm feeling like I came back home after travelling for a long time
Debian is where old Linux users go to retire.
I have Debian 12 RC installed with Gnome. Since Debian 12 started coming with firmware and multimedia codecs by default, it's a terrific desktop now. You DO need knowledge to fill in utiliities (my choices - sudo apt install gufw neofetch lm-sensors nautilus-admin gnome-cards-data pulseaudio-utils flatpak gnome-software-plugin-flatpak gnome-shell-extension-manager gnome-package-updater). Steam can be installed directly from Steam's repo from several articles guiding you. And there's a zillion bloat games and other unnecessary gnome apps to delete. Once set up it's solid as stone.
I use debian as my only OS for years. It has always been nearly perfect to me. It is nice to hear about news comming up with 12. :)
My first and current os is Ubuntu. And it's so much annoying the fans suddenly starts running so fast (as much as possible), heating issue, laggy. Now I decided to switch to debian. But I am in confusion should I choose debian or mint. My laptop configuration
Core i3 5th gen Intel processor, 8 gb ram, 120gb ssd
@@LazyProgrammer when i started with linuc Iwas also having these condierations. I realised, it is all debian anyhow, I just get to choose what goes in and what not.
It is super stable, like incredibly stable ... I had no issues with it all these years.
One thing, I am not big in shiny new stuff, so that may be a thing. But All the tools i actually need I have them and all works really well.
I actually find Debians classy look beautiful.
Great video! It's exactly why I use Debian. I enthusiastically recommend Debian over Ubuntu usually, simply because of stability and it's "good enough" even for gaming. However, you are right about Linux moving fast in that area.
Been using Debian 12 (latest) at work and home since December 2022, it's been ROCK SOLID.
My last PC at work is using Debian 10... which has also been rock solid, going to upgrade it next week.
Thank you for this video! _Finally_ the release is in sight ^^
and thank you for showing me the Synaptic Package Manager. It had a three-clicks-solution for my "held back package"-problem :D
I've always recommended Debian for desktop because of the rock solid stability and the truly extensive documentation and wide compatibility for when you need to install a 3rd party package.
Great video. Thanks for breaking down the details for us. I've been running my home and business on Debian stable for years. I run Linux Mint on laptops because it 'just works' but for work and main workstation, the Debian stable philosophy and software suits perfectly. We're not cutting edge anything here. After all, my main workstation is still HASWELL in 2023. :)
Perfect timing! I was just considering switching to Debian for more stability compared to a rolling release distro. I'm still on the fence, because I have gotten used to always having the latest packages, but this video certainly helps!
Debian installer looks old.
Me: still using the debian lovely console installer
dselect 4evah!
Using Debian as Desktop distro since Woody, i never found a better desktop distro since Wheezy. Also never had any need to use some clunky stuff like flatpak. On windows user crys about new desktop designs and want the 10 yr old look and feel back, on linux: "Oh no, it's not the latest and greatest", i don't get it.
And yes, i play my games, have the lastetest nvidia-driver and the latest blender running on it. Most of the time, solutions are just a quick google search away. It's easyer then to uninstall bloatware on windows 10. XD
Debian Sid user for 2 years now. It stopped my hopping and runs perfectly. Not a single issue so far on my T480 (with unfree drivers). Looking forward to the upcoming versions of Debian. Good video tho.
it's the best dist for now
Love Debian. It's the rock solid foundation from which so many other distros and projects are built up from. It's good that the desktop is now for accessible for being used as a solid workstation with less hoops to jump through. Who knows what people will come up with for the desktop with a more accessible solid foundation to stand on? I'm looking forward to seeing what creative minds will do to it.
I have been using it since Sarge in 2005.
On my side I use debian testing, very stable, no problem at all.
But I suggest that you know how to run debian, because, sometimes (very rare times) you can get in trouble with some updates...
But most of the times, upgrade are ok and you are on a "rolling release"...
Thanks for the review, I've been using Linux since 1999. While I was studying computer science, I used Slackware. Debian was the other one that I was willing to consider, but I never did. Slackware did everything I needed. After finishing college , I worked in a Microsoft shop and used Macs at home.
Now, I'm using Mint and love it and regret not using Debian all those years ago. The learning back then would have helped me now. That being said, I have and old MacBook Air with Slackware 15. I love going to the command line doomby-doombing out changes to config file and keeping on going.
It appears that GNOME 43 is the mobile-friendly environment I always wanted, and it is quite valuable as a desktop environment too. Not to mention that it's also the most gorgeous of the bunch.
I'm actually considering switching because the sheer update frequency on fedora and the fact that it forces you to restart if you do it through the app center is pretty annoying. I also mostly use flatpaks now with a few exceptions.
I've been a Debian Sid (unstable) user since forever ago. It's ironic that Debian's so-called unstable is far more stable than most other distros out there. It's basically a high-quality rolling release.
All bloggers: debian is very stable and well tested, you are unlikely to run into a bug
Me: found two bugs in debian stable, one in the kernel, the other in the text installer.
I use text installer, btw. No, not because I'm a cool hacker (I am not). I just like the way it looks and is easier to control without a mouse.
Overall, Debian is one of my favorite distributions. And one of the few that still supports 32-bit x86. So I install it with XFCE on older computers.
I don't like two things. First, by the end of its life cycle, it becomes outdated, I get bored and install something more recent.
Second, I'm missing something like an AUR. I use a couple of programs that are not in the repositories. So I have to install them with more complex methods (eg build from source).
Debian was my first Linux experience in late 1998, i've used windowmaker at first, then enlightenment.. and right now i'm using Debian 12 since 3 months or so.. many greetings from Brunswick in Germany 🙂
I got into Linux about a year ago, and distro hopped half a dozen times.
Mint, Ubuntu, Manjaro, NixOS, back to Mint, and finally to Debian 12 Plasma.
I think I've finally found a distro I'll be sticking with long-term.
NixOS was a nightmare for a beginner. Ubuntu was okay.
I liked Manjaro, and Mint was my main distro, and I really enjoyed it but still always wanted something "more" so I kept hopping.
Debian has me hooked!
Huge thanks to all of the devs, maintainers and contributors to ALL of these projects.
If trends like Flatpak advancements and desktops getting more mature continue as they have been, I'll seriously consider switching to Debian with Debain 14 or so (from Arch). Desktop Linux used to feel way too immature for me to intentionally use an older version, but this seems to be changing. Debian 12 is not yet there for me (for example, because of gaming), but I'm definitely watching it with great interest.
Yeah, 12 is still going to be a bit early for a few things. Gaming is one, but HDR is another big one. HDR is not really supported yet, but KDE plasma 6.0 is supposed to be adding HDR support, and I expect other DEs will be starting to get it in the next couple years. The next debian stable release that has further flatpak progress and HDR supporting desktop environments might be worth considering for me, but I don't want to be waiting on that to make it in for years.
Using it for two month! Really good expirience!
Salut, thanks for your videos! I switched from Ubuntu to the testing version of Debian 12, and it really does have everything I need as a developer. I face less bugs and issues than before and the user experience is really smooth depending on which desktop environment we use.
Greetings from Normandy :)
I have been running LMDE for a while now. I like the subtle Mint additions, but I want to go pure Debian with my next OS install. Debian for life.
This comes in clutch for me as I've been planning on moving away from Arch and my first option was debian. Stability is important for me. On arch I went for months (maybe even a year) without updating cause I dont really like things changing all the time and that ended up breaking things and causing dependency hells over and over again. Happy to see debian will be an even better option now!
Very good my friend ! Debian is Debian. Version 12 is fantastic !
I put Debian 12 on a Ventoy USB along with Pop_OS, Ubuntu 23.04, and Mint Vera. After live booting each I landed on Debian 12 Gnome after comparing them for the umpteenth time that night. I will say that I accidentally installed a boot partition to the nvme and hdd. That led to Grub issues and I ended up using MX Workbench to live boot the laptop again and used the Boot Repair utility to reinstall Grub. After a reboot it was great to have a 12 year old HP laptop feel similar to when it was new. I feel like I can do anything with those ISOs nearby now. I’m glad Debian is the backbone for them all. I left Windows 10 in 2017 and haven’t looked back. I feel like I graduated from the beginner distros to intermediate by using Debian. Here’s to learning Linux and moving toward advanced in the future.
Debian's great but people keep forgetting something, Debian has decently modern packages when a new release is out, given that debian releases are 2 years apart, after 6-8 months of Debian 12 being out, it already starts to become kinda outdated for many people and people who wants to try debian gets pushed back cus "its old". After a year or so of release, people just consider debian as a grandpa with unusably old packages and then a new release appears after 2 years, its decently modern and the cycle continues.
Debian's own manual suggests normal users to use Debian Testing due to it always having modern packages and being mostly stable.
Im genuinely considering debian 12 from Arch, I did use Debian 11 for quite a while early this year
That about the 'testing' branch… I had never read that part of the manual. 🤯
I find it interesting that it mentioned that, because my reason for switching to that branch was because I wanted KDE Neon without the handholding features it inherited from Kubuntu LTS!
Fortunately this is no longer such a problem, thanks to Flatpak!
I liked Linux 20 years ago so what's another two years? I still use Athena widget software. My customized xcalc is leet. i.imgur.com/mCfOBIe.png
@@TheLinuxEXP cant say everything is magically solved due to flatpaks tho, stuff like window managers and many commandline programs arent flatpaks, so it kinda sucks. But given how fast Linux developement is headed, we might just have a minimal immutable core and everything including the DE/WM as a flatpak.
Mint is a great choice for anyone looking for quick productivity on a stable system, beginner or advanced. For a workstation, in my opinion, it is a great choice. I still like Debian, though, even if I haven't used it as a desktop distro for a while.
I’m hyped for when MX Linux updates to the Debian Bookworm base. Easy distro for beginners, and completely sane for gaming on older hardware.
Great video. Thanks, man! Linux user since late 90s. Tried basically every distro except for the really obscure ones. Recently disillusioned with Manjaro, tried OpenSuSE for 3 months and it wasn't for me. Haven't looked at Debian for a long time (except as a server). I like what I see here. Going to go for it.
I always run Debian on my servers, SID on a newer laptop too which is always very stable for me. I have deb stable on an older machine too and all versions have been very stable over the years.
Hi Nick, just as an update to your excellent review. Debian 12 now uses a Calemares installer which makes it just as easy to install as any of the top Distros. The big plpus for me is that with an ageing MacBookPro any distro based on Ubuntu 24.04 and that includes Mint 22 takes almost 4 mins to boot! Also Fedora 40 with ever advancing kernels is becoming difficult to get Broadcom wifi working. The trusty RPMFusion kmod-wl method is failing. So... installed Debian 12 with Gnome and followed their Wiki WL on Broadcom and my MacBook is up and running. I think I will be resisting chasing the latest and greatest from now on!
For me I just use kernel from stable branch and all packages from testing, this give me great experience with stability
I am currently running Debian 12 with GNOME 43, 6.1 kernel, and it is running super great. I am very happy with it.
PICK THE KDE and it won't look old any more.. I ran XEBIAN- which is Debian 12 with xfce on it (testing) and had NO issues . I'm not very techy and had no problem with any of it... and it worked GREAT with my older equipment with no problems!!!
Debian with the Cinnamon DE has been my daily for at least 3 years now, since I experienced a lot of bugs within Mint.
Downloads with the non-free firmware have been available far longer than that.
Great to see Debian get some love. As somebody who checked out Linux because Win 8 was a mess I really appreciate it's stability. Like others pointed out here, though the stable release does have a reputation for being a bit old, there is both a "testing" branch which keeps things more up to date, and a "sid" branch which resembles a rolling release.
But for me personally, I haven't had any issues with a delay in packages. Browsers are always up to date (including Firefox, Firefox-esr and Chromium); and as mentioned above flatpaks, snaps, or app images can remedy those issues regardless of the repos.
Certainly a distro I'd wholeheartedly recommend for anybody with similar preferences to me.
Debian 12 is boss. The new installer, flatpacks and the latest DEs makes it a competitor in the average user daily driver arena along with Mint, Fedora & Ubuntu, without compromising its bulletproof stability. If my data, my work progress, or productivity are on the line, I only trust Debian.
I just love Debian 12 with Cinnamon desktop. The first I do is installing the liquorix kernel and wine, because I use it mainly for music production. My main Daws are Bitwig, Reaper and Ardour, and now Live 12, the latter will run under wine.
I love Debian. For more than a decade actually. ❤❤❤ Super happy about the driver too. Finally! Awesome
I have just come to Debian for the first time ever from Arch and Arch based distros, bleeding edge to rock solid stable. I'm hooked! It's really nice and with my sweet KDE theme and all my other ricing there is no visible difference whatsoever between Arch KDE and Debian KDE. I have a lot of experience in Ubuntu so I was sudo apt installing everything from the get-go, I don't even need the software center but it's nice to have.
Thanks for making this video!
I've been testing pre-release builds of Debian 12 on their testing branch on a secondary PC, but with it being officially released on the stable branch, I have a 'GO' signal to go ahead and update my servers, all of which currently run Debian 10! (I usually stick to even-numbered Debian and Devuan releases)
I've been running MX Linux on a home theater PC for well over a year now, which uses Debian Stable as its base. It uses a best of both worlds approach for that kind of system, of course using Debian it's extremely solid, but also came with extra refinements like newer driver support and flatpak out of the box. Looks as though Debian has caught up in that regard, which is nice all around. MX still has some curation and QoL improvements so I'd say they're still worth checking out.
For non systemD uses, i like mx and devuan. Mx worked well for an use case: usb 2.0 live with persistence
Ever since Debian 12 was released, I've been running Debian with KDE on X11 (due to ongoing NVIDIA driver issues) I have zero complaints about it, have never experienced a crash due to instability and even most of the games I do play run fine under Proton & proprietary drivers. Although the kernel is older than on my Arch install, I'll happily take stability+flatpak since my use case is changing from experimentation to getting real work done.
Always excited about new Debian version!
I've been so out of the loop on Linux for years now. I didn't realise 12 was that new when I downloaded it last week, been pretty happy with it so far.
I love debian 💙. Just gave it a try a few weeks ago and its perfect for me. I need stable software, not latest features. And though I'm in the terminal 98% of the time I use i3wm without a desktop environment.
Debian is my personal best linux experience so far.
Man, the Linux desktop experience has changed A LOT in the last couple of years. I used to daily Debian Testing, moved to Mint but honestly kept doing stuff the old school way
I already run Debian on my home server and I maintain a project that targets Debian Stable. Really tempted to run it on my desktop now.
Sounds like the first Debian version I can recommend to (some) non-professionals. Wading through manuals to get a mostly working computer is not the definition of fun for quite a lot of people.
I love how stable and so smooth and easy for beginners and power users as well. Can't live without Linux ❤
It's important to clarify that the Steam Flatpak comes with its own set of graphics drivers (Mesa) that are usually pretty up to date, so older drivers in Debian shouldn't be much of an issue. In fact every Flatpak app uses the Mesa version that comes with Flatpak runtimes.
Ah Debian. The old reliable brick house of Linux. It's not fancy, it doesn't do anything super out there. But when it comes to reliability, Debian is your best bet. You can spin up a Debian server, ignore it for a decade and it'll be fine.
Speaking of rock solid: Linux Mint have a version based on Debian that I've been curious about. I wonder how it compares to their Ubuntu based version and if there's a noticeable difference for a regular day to day user.
The current Linux Mint based on Debian has older packages than the one based on ubuntu. It is mainly because of the version it is based on. If you want a new Linux Mint based on Debian 12 i think you might need to wait a bit till they release it.
Nice, just jumped back to debian from Fedora (I kinda have mixed feeling on F38)
I've been on this Linux journey for couple years now, I've been using Manjaro, Elementary OS, Ubuntu and now last couple weeks Debian, and i must admit Debian is the most trouble free experience by far. With all the previous distros I tried I had problems with screen flickering i915 psr, suspend and battery draining on my Tuxedo Infinity Book pro 14, meaning that with Debian I can actually focus on things that are most interesting to me.
I'm using Debian 12 Bookworm about a month and I must say that this version is the best Debian made. Totally reliable and stable. Combining with Flatpak you turn the system a power ful one.
I love debian. I dont have fancy PC. Just use it for daily computing. Lite image and video editing using GIMP and shotcut. Really stable.
Thank you for this information for only end users. Now, could you please make another video of Debian 12 for software developers?
I find Debian 12 has been making a great base for Steam flatpak gaming on an AMD GPU - since the flatpak handles the Mesa bit for you! been using it this way for about 3 months now
It's good to see some love to the base of basically all the distros I've used. I don't even remember when it was the last time I used Debian and, because of that, I saw some things in the video that got me like "Wow, they seriously didn't change that one". But everything else looks kinda current.
I've been using Debian Testing as my first "everyday" use of Linux on my laptop (I still use Windows on Desktop since I've not been happy with hardware compatiblity.) I've been really happy with it and will probably follow Bookworm into stable and stay there, using backports as needed.
I’m running a Debian 11 as my daily driver for Java coding and 12 as my private OS. Love both of them 😉
about the installer: i actually like debian's installer, because it's so much faster than the others (for example: it does not take a whole 2 minutes to just manage partitions), and ability to choose desktop environment in installer is just great!
D12 looks and sounds boss.
Debian is over-leveling and it's awesome.