I chose the R5 over the 1dx mkii. I really wanted to go mirrorless and the EVF was the thing that tipped it over the edge. I do plan on picking up a 1DX MKiii within the next year. I shoot mostly stills and film for a couple local RUclipsrs. I'll be doing stills at Formula Drift this weekend, I'm super excited to test it out.
No one has compared a 1DX Mark III to a Canon R6. That would be an epic/viral video since they both are rumored to have the same sensor and not one is comparing these sensors on RUclips. I would personally love to see that comparison. I just sold my 1DX Mark II and I'm not certain if I'm getting the R5 or R6. What are your thoughts between these 2 cameras. I do a lot of 1080P with 4K 60 and some occasional 120fps HD. I mostly used the 1DX Mark II for the sensor on professional photoshoots. It always handled highlight rolloff better than the 5DM4 and Eos R. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks so much for making this man! I’ve watched all your videos, and I can tell you out in a lot of time to make them quality instead of tons of videos. Really appreciate your work.
Hey! R5 has come but i am still going for 1dx mark iii i know there are some down sides of 1dx mark iii as far as fps and 8k is concerned but still 1dx mark iii does not over heats and its so reliable in client shoots
Omkar Gaonkar depends on what type of work you do. For me, I will be using it primarily as a photo camera and only a little as a video camera. I will use my cinema camera for my main video work
How about photography wise, what is the breakdown? Also, why are people using photo cameras to do videos instead of buying a video camera? Why aren't people buying video cameras and using it for photos?
These cameras shoot 5.5k raw and 8k raw. They are very much hybrid cameras now. The days of them “only being photography cameras” is long gone. Also, for what it’s worth I own several cinema cameras, and still occasionally choose one of these tools for the job.
Thanks for the breakdown Griffin. With your 1DX3 raw footage, which technical LUTs are you using, to normalize the footage? Alexa, or downloading from Canon? Thanks in advance.
The more I see about the R5 overheating issues the more I think Canon can easily fix with software update. If possible, they should at least just cap a recording limit at 8k and 4k 120 but then allow you to jump back to 1080 120 or 4k 60. We'll see what happens I guess. I cancelled my R5 and decided to go with a 1dx mkii. Very stoked on the new purchase! Great video!!
I agree! I would love a 1080 120 update that doesn’t overheat in the R5 and also a version of the 4K 60p that doesn’t overheat as well, even if it comes with a crop or loss of AF
8K is putting too many eggs into too small a basket. But Canon was falling behind and needed to be more competitive and the R5 was born. Thing is, if you need continuous video then get a dedicated video camera. Otherwise, just use the camera within its limits (which is more than enough time) and you'll be fine.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Glad you did a comparison of 1DX mk3 vs R5. I also appreciated your comments about mk2 below in one of the comments. Now it is clear, I stick to my mk2 for some time. Let's hope Canon fixes video issues in R5 mk2 soon.
@@GriffinConway i was thinking to sell my 1dx2 bodies for R5 bodies. i do primarily shoot photos but wanted to really start doing more video. im not sure about the over heating issue with the R5 seems a bit risky. maybe ill stick to the 1 series.... what would you suggest having used the 1dx2 for so long?
Great video, really good comparisons. It works pretty well for shooting wildlife. I shoot a lot of stock footage and you generally don't shoot more than 1-5 mins when you find an animal, and then it takes you another 15-60 mins or more to find something else. I originally planned to shoot everything either 8k RAW or 4k/120p but I quickly found that to be impractical due to file sizes and overheating. Even with long down-times between shots the camera was overheating on me after a couple of hours in the field, and you often spend all day out shooting. So now I basically just shoot 4k/60p with everything, and only use 8k if I really need to crop in post for extra zoom, or 120p if I really need super slow motion. You can shoot wildlife all day if you limit it to 4k/60p and remember to turn it off as soon as you are done shooting an animal. Note the quieter the shutter the better for wildlife, so the loud clicky shutter on the 1 DX Mark III is a big negative for wildlife shooting. The quieter mechanical shutter on the R5 is way better for me.
Interesting take on the shutter. For me I like the loud shutter for working with talent so they can hear when photos are being taken, but if you talent is animals in nature it would probably make sense for the quiet shutter. Thanks for sharing your experience Roger!
@@GriffinConway The R5 has 2 mechanical shutter sounds. It defaults to a quieter hybrid of electronic and mechanical which dampens the sound. The full mechanical is much noisier.
In comparison, 1DXIII shutter is way too loud. I shoot bird/ wildlife and R5 subtle shutter sound is very welcome. Its 45 mp at 12/20 FPS is awesome as I need to crop a lot.
I'm glad to hear you are getting good use out of 4K60 - I was really hoping this would work for my wildlife too - I tried it out and got an overheat warning pretty much straight away after shooting about a thousand images. Normally I wouldn't shoot that many but with birds in flight and 20 FPS it happens. I'll try again. The overheating after stills really took me by surprise with this camera, if it weren't for that, I could get by no problem. Back to 1080 I guess!
@@WillGoodlet I've found that just having the camera on, regardless of what you do with stills or not, causes your video time to reduce rapidly. So it's not that you are shooting a lot of bird stills, the camera is just penalizing you for keeping it powered up. Basically it's a software thing Canon seems to have baked into the firmware. I don't think the camera really detects any overheating through any of this. For now best you can do is power it off and keep it powered off for as much time as possible throughout the day.
I appreciate your thoughts. I have an R5 on order but I plan to hang on to both my 1DX II and III for many years. With the Mark III coming out at the beginning of the pandemic and with sports having been shut down for so many months, it hasn't been getting much attention.
Has your opinion changed on the R5 in 2021? If R5 gets the rumored 1080 120fps with no overheating, will your opinion change as well? Just curious. Great job!
Hey Joe! I actually had a section in here talking about how my older 1dx Mark ii that I sold could reliably record 4K 60p and 120p all day long without heat issues and that would probably be a better buy than the R5 for professionals but the video was getting too long so I cut it out. The 1dx Mark ii is still one of my favorite cameras of all time. It paid for itself many times over in my production.
It is an interesting camera. To be honest I don’t know too much about it. For me, I value the 1DX3 primarily because it is built like a tank and is super weatherproof, so I would choose that one.
That’s true not a ton of info out there. It’s a great camera but it got overlooked by all of the people excited about a cheaper camera with better specs (R5).
Griffin Conway people got so excited about the R5 and forgot that the 1DXMiii. With the R5 issues, the 1DX is a better video camera hands down. The camera can have all the best specs in the world but if it don’t work then it isn’t the right camera.
Awesome video - just wondering the interview shots at 09:36 - was this shot in 4K HQ on the canon R5 ?? wondering if that would close the gap IQ wise with the others.. Love to see more Canon R5 4K HQ footage & your thoughts ! cheers
Hey bro, I've been really blessed by your videos. Just picked up the 1dx iii! QUESTION: Will recording in log automatically be 10 bit as opposed to 8 bit, or is that something you have to set up in camera? Also, how in the HECK do you create a proxy to edit the 4k files. My MacBook can't play them through, like you mentioned in your video! Thanks and keep em coming!
Hey Simon! Thanks for checking the videos out and glad to hear you have been enjoying them. I’ve been thinking of making a workflow video using h.265 files. When you shoot in canon log on the 1DX3 it automatically shifts it to 10 but h.265, and when you shoot in a non-log profile it shoots in 8 bit. I’ll try to get that workflow video out soon!
The 1dx shutter sounds the best🔥🔥🔥 Great video man! Thank you for putting in all this work for us. It must take a lot. Also I'm sold on the 1dx mark iii. Good upgrade from the mk ii
Awesome! 1dx iii is a great cam. Feel free to use one of the links below for the 1DX iii if you would like to support the channel. They are affiliated links
Hey Griffin! Any tips for working with H.265 codec? I can create proxies during the editing process, but how do you suggest organizing/ renaming your clips and sifting through the footage before loading them into Premiere? I can't preview anything so I'm not sure what clips are what before the editing starts if that makes sense! Really love the channel! Hope you blow up man!
An entertaining comparison if not a very logical one. One is a dedicated pro stills camera (w/video features), the other may share capability but its not for pro use. That means all day reliable operation. I think his comparison showed why they are not in the same category. Neither is a dedicated video camera, but the R5 reached its limit a lot sooner than the much more robust 1DX. People should keep that in mind, when they think because R5 is 8K that its a better camera for less.
One question about the 1dx mark iii and the Ninja V.. Can you monitor Clog 2 Raw output from the camera through the Ninja V? I am trying to do it, but i can only monitor CLog 1 and then i also have no waveforms..
At 9:36 you say the 1DX3 is slightly more detailed. But either the R5 is out of focus, or the 1DX3 is twice as sharp. The difference is huge to me. Look at the lost detail in the hair. Did you use the oversampled quality 4K, or the pixel binning 4K on the R5?
If you think the 1 Dx Mk III is fast moving around the autofocus points, you clearly have not found the „touch & drag“-option on the R5. You can move the autofocus point so much faster and more precisely on a mirrorless, it ´s not even a comparison
1DX MKIII is amazing and I love mine! As for the R5, there are people hacking the internal battery switch to over ride the system... proving its a timer issue and not thermal. too bad it had to come to that, but I bet that Canon is scrambling like mad to update the software... that's if it is possible. Otherwise a R5 MKII will be the only solution.
Does the 1DX Mark III auto focus in 120fps 1080 video setting? I'm seeking autonomous setup on tripod, whilst I walk into the frame for self video recording.
I sold my 1Dx and got the EOS R a while back but really miss the 1dx. Just the way 1dx feels in my hand is really fun to shoot. Now I am torn between 1 Dx iii and R5+ 28-70f2. I primarily shoot family, kids, newborns studio etc. any suggestions
Totally agree, I absolutely love the feeling of the 1dx 3. I like the tilt screen on the r5 though as well as the EVF. Also that 28-70 would probably be the perfect lens for all those uses you mentioned. I might check out the r5 with a battery grip and see if you like it!
Why do you think the 4K comparison looked more "detailed" with the 1DX3? I've seen a few comparisons (Like Parker Wallbeck's) and the R5 was signicantly sharper than the 1DX3 and A7SIII in 4K HQ. I also noticed the 1DX3's 1080/120 was much noisier than the R5 4k/120. Btw, I had a 1DMk3 for about 12 years and it was a beast.
77dris the 1dx iii 4k looked more detailed to my eyes on my monitor so that’s why I added that note on the interview clips. The R5 was shot in 4K “non-hq” mode because in an interview setting I wouldn’t be able to record long enough without overheating in HQ mode. Since it was in an interview use case setting I wanted tit to be applicable to how I would shoot. I know you can use HQ mode with a ninja v but I don’t like using external recorders if you cannot simultaneously record internally. I’ve had too many issues with them and learned not to trust them the hard way. Also, Parker’s video was great, but he used RF lenses on the R5 and EF lenses on the 1dx iii. Most rf lenses are sharper than ef. I used matching lenses on both cameras.
Thanks for the comparison, initially as a wildlife shooter I was going to go for the 1DX iii but the stills capabilities are very good on the R5, especially for someone like me using the shorter 400 f2.8. I'm disappointed about it's habit of overheating after intense stills use (mine certainly does). It's almost perfect for me, I can't use OVF for video as my short distance eyesight has got too bad so the EVF makes it much easier for me to shoot video clips in confined spaces. Really hoping this firmware update adds something. Reliable 4K60 would make it perfect for my use.
The R5 battery life was what pushed me to the 1 DX III. I use a Hoodman loupe on the rear screen for video and when I stack teleconverters on my 600mm and it brings it to f11 and I can only use live view for stills.
What would you recommend between 1dx mark 2 vs R5 for a person who wants to learn videography? I am having a hard time choosing between them. I do photography but want to upgrade for a camera which can do both for me. Thank you.
Both are great options. If you have a local canon dealer that will let you try them out in the shop I would suggest that. Aside from the price difference, I would say a lot of it is personal preference and whether or not you prefer a lighter camera or a bigger heavy duty one
how does the raw on the 1dx in Clog 2 compare to the c500? I use it with the IPB proxies, conforming them when i send the files to the colorist. Works very smoothly.
This was helpful. I know what you mean about overheating and durability. My b-camera is the older 1DC with the C300 MII. We just got our R5 a couple of months ago and thought about swapping it out with 1DC next time we go international. But I think we’ll take all three for peace of mind. Thanks Griffen!
@@GriffinConway so you also shoot on a C500 correct? We own two C300’s and a C300MII. And hoped we could match the MII to the older C300’s for multicam work, but we find the MarkII to come out more red then the other two older C300’s. Have you run across such a difference in camera chip processing in various Canon models? We usually have right turn arounds and try not to use C-Log and match in camera as much as possible.
Hey Fraser, that’s awesome to hear. The c500 Mark ii is an amazing camera. I’ve got a video coming very soon that is a rig breakdown of my c500 Mark ii
Just a amazing video! Thanks for your real life comparison. This channel is GOAT all the way! How is the R5 now after the firmware 1.10 update? Digging it more? I had the MK2 & EOS R twice. Need to get stuff done. MK3 will be the one for me. Looks like the next firmwares are on the way too. Thanks again! And please make case specific rig vid’s too. Cheers and stay safe!
Griffin Conway Just a heads up, I got some slow card errors with my new 1DXMK3 during a shoot day 3hrs in. I was using a 512gb Agfaphoto 1700/1400 cfexpress card. Did tests with the sama spec (up to 1700/1490) Sandisk with no problems. Angelbird seems to make even better XT-models for sustained high data rate. I was shooting different 4K modes..
Cheer mate! Could you also include your take / configuration on the hdmi output signal to atomos ninja V in clog/10? It seems that the mk3 sends the view assist signal out of the hdmi out if activated and not the plain clog as you would think. Any ideas? Thanks again!
Man, I feel like the 1dxiii is the perfect gimbal camera. I shoot a lot of handheld with my cinema cam, which is typically my A cam but I want to snag a 1dxiii and just leave it balanced on my Ronin MX 24/7 to be able to get those gimbal pickup shots when I need.
And it would matches the c300iii and c500ii so perfectly. It would be such a great b cam. By the way, I got my battery plate from full frame camera co. last week! Thanks so much for the recommendation. It’s like the perfect solution for those cameras 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
So the 1DX3 doesn't overheat, whatever You throw at it....? Any way, funny that You say that if photography is Your thing, get the R5, I am going to buy the 1DX3 because it is probably the last pro optical viewfinder camera that Canon are going to make, it is way out of my economic league, but I gotta have it.... I may get an EVF camera down the line, but I simply got to have thát 0.76x 100% optical viewfinder available in my bag....
Great video, really enjoyed. I’d have to say that the flip screen and 4K 120 are huge advantages over the 1DX. I have the r5 and the 1dx (mark 2) The weight and ibis are also huge fir be. I can hold with a heavy lens in one hand and tap to focus with the other and it looks like it’s on a tripod. This is too hard with the 1dx.
The R5 is a great camera for sure. I like the weight and size because of the size of size of my hands. But when I use small lenses it’s hard to beat the small form factor of the R5. All thy said, I really wish the 1dx iii had a tilt or flip screen and 4K 120p!
This is a very fair review. 👏🏻 When you need to get work done, you have to be able to rely on your tools. The R5 is amazing and I love it, but overheating is not cool. It’s completely frustrating to have a fantastic piece of tech turn into a brick. Also why I’ll keep my 1DX3 in my back pocket - even if I shoot primarily stills.
Griffin Conway Of course. Totally! Not a replacement at all. This is more the 5D4 replacement. All I know is they better include that AF Smart Controller on the R flagship 😂👏🏻
I still have one of my Canon 1Dc cameras, LOL, and the build quality is top notch... a producer nocked one over once and broke a piece of the EF mount off... We were able to use the camera for the rest of the day, can't say the same for the Canon 70-200 2.8 L V2 that was on it, LOL Anyhow, I've been thinking about picking up a 1Dx MK III for an upcoming TV commercial... maybe I'll rent... Appreciate your take on these cams, stay well brother!
My Man. Good job. I feel once you have a 1Dx and get used to that build quality there's no comparison. Once again I think the 1DX is the best hybrid camera. The overheating issue is just downright criminal and useless
Totally agree, that build quality is hard to leave once you get used to it. Looking forward to the mirrorless 1 series body they make after the 1dx iii...all I really don’t like about the 1dx iii is no EVF and no flip screen.
@@GriffinConway That makes sense. Video was really soft compared to the IDX. Thing is the APS-C crop 4k mode is really the way to go IMO for times where you really don't need Full Frame because it's unlimited recording and its very sharp doing a downsample from over 5k. You should do a video on the APS-C crop vs FF...not just on what looks shaper but a video on when would you actually need FF and when you would need APS-C mode based on the RF lens. APS-C would my go to for an interview since I don't need FF.
@@GriffinConway Thanks for the reply man! I unfortunately don't have the luxury of being able to transcode it with my time limits. But somehow the colors on the H.264 are just amazing. Try it out and see for yourself. (and it playsback natively ofcourse)
As a professional videographer isn't it better using a C line camera instead of a 1Dx series ? Pity for the overheating in the R5, it's way better now with the new firmware but in my opinion it must do better As a stills camera the R5 in one of the best out there, if Canon can keep up with the shipping of the pre ordered R5's Here in Belgium and a big part of europe people are still waiting on their pre order, not so good for Canon's name
Depends on the job. If you are shooting photos and videos, sometimes it makes sense to shoot on a hybrid camera. That is what was demonstrated in the video. The production I run has 5 canon cinema cameras we use as our primary video cameras.
I think if Canon adds 1080p 120fps a lot of people can tolerate the R5. Then I don't see any problem doing the most work at these settings and getting only the most important shots in higher resolutions etc. If you really need to shoot talking heads in 8K or 4K HQ then you shouldn't be looking at dslrs / mirrorless bodies in the first place.
I agree 1080 120 would go a long way in making it more useable in the real world, otherwise the 1dx Mark is that was released in 2016 has a more reliable and useable120p
I think people have tried a lot of different things, some more successful than others. For my professional work, I don’t see this as a realistic solution
@@GriffinConway yeah I completing agree with you and understand that but I am kinda trying to decide between them. the s1h is built like a tank ( like the 1dx m3). and has a fan but the af is defenly not as good as canons or Sony
Hi Jack, I actually had a part in the video where I mentioned I am going to order a battery grip since I prefer the larger body but as I was cutting down the video to make it shorter I chopped it out. The ISO for video shooting only goes to 51,200 not 102,400 though. In stills mode it expands to 102,400 on the R5 but not in video.
@@GriffinConway You are not using the great Raw on the 1DX III ... convert to Clog 2 and it will be so close to the c500. CFExpress cards are a minimal expense ... and hard drive storage cost have plummeted ... and you should be able to pass those cost on to the client. All of my personal video is in Raw ... long form interviews I default to 4K All I to a Video Devices PIX-E5 in ProRes HQ ... prefer the 5.5K Raw overall.
@@GriffinConway Bless you and the 1DX series. For some reason it's the only [Canon] camera where movement is captured so cinematically. I just don't know why?! What's the mojo they inject in that camera that's different than the DSLRs? The 1DX footage feels like a cinema line camera.
Thanks for your video. I appreciate and respect your opinions! In my view, Canon is playing with fire releasing the R5 with such obvious constraints. It is one thing to be in front on specs but another to burn a customer on a job. I hope they can come up with improvements and C-LOG3 in the next firmware.
@@GriffinConway Good to know. Hopefully one more push can put the camera into safe territory. I have read C-LOG3 can be as much as two stops wider than C-LOG. Never used either. Do you think it will be a noticeable difference between the two? Change the camera's image etc...
@@GriffinConway Thanks for your info. Good to know. That is enticing enough for me to wait for the firmware release before making a purchase decision between the R5/R6 and an a7SIII.
1DX3 is kind of a beast. If you are looking at internal codecs, it might be considered the best hybrid camera on the market. 5.5k 60p raw internal is incredible for situations when you can’t use an external recorder like in an underwater housing etc
This video is from 2 years ago, I may have the chance to trade an R6 for the 1 DX Mark III. I want better video, the other person is a photographer that wants a lighter camera.
Pretty much the same conclusions I came up with... but you did it with actual tests.. ).... Also keeping the R5 because I love photography and there the R5 shines... but for sure it is not the camera I am taking to the Everglades with me,, which is a shame because even my old 7D M2 I could always count on
We currently have a go pro hero 8, but really looking for a 2nd camera, so found this really interesting and helpful bro, hope you're well and having a great week so far. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us really appreciate it bro stay safe and catch up again real soon God bless you 🙏👍❤️
Totally agreed! Gear is only there to "enable" us to do what we want. If it hinders what we do, then we don't own them, they own us... (kinda fight club quote there :))
I chose the R5 over the 1dx mkii. I really wanted to go mirrorless and the EVF was the thing that tipped it over the edge. I do plan on picking up a 1DX MKiii within the next year. I shoot mostly stills and film for a couple local RUclipsrs. I'll be doing stills at Formula Drift this weekend, I'm super excited to test it out.
That’s awesome. Totally agree about the EVF, I’m a fan. Wish the 1dx3 had an EVF and tilt screen and it would be perfect
Love the "real world use" section, that's the part other reviewers always miss. Great work, thanks!
Haha I agree! That’s the most important part!
You literally read my mind I was hoping you did a video comparison & you did a great job 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Thanks bro! Always appreciate your support 🙌
@@GriffinConway you're welcome, you always make great videos
Great comparison Griffin. And happy birthday Delanie!
Thanks Matt!! I’ll tell her!
No one has compared a 1DX Mark III to a Canon R6. That would be an epic/viral video since they both are rumored to have the same sensor and not one is comparing these sensors on RUclips. I would personally love to see that comparison. I just sold my 1DX Mark II and I'm not certain if I'm getting the R5 or R6. What are your thoughts between these 2 cameras. I do a lot of 1080P with 4K 60 and some occasional 120fps HD. I mostly used the 1DX Mark II for the sensor on professional photoshoots. It always handled highlight rolloff better than the 5DM4 and Eos R. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Wwooooohhhooooooo!!! This is what i’ve been waiting. Thanks brotha’..more power man!!!
Haha thanks bro!! Appreciate the support
Nice video 👌🏽 but have you update the firmware 1.1 for the R5 ? They said that the overheating is better and you get long time record...
Thanks so much for making this man! I’ve watched all your videos, and I can tell you out in a lot of time to make them quality instead of tons of videos. Really appreciate your work.
Grayson Thayne thanks a lot Grayson! Really appreciate the support and the kind words!
Real world use is everything. Thanks so much for this amazing review!
Hey! R5 has come but i am still going for 1dx mark iii i know there are some down sides of 1dx mark iii as far as fps and 8k is concerned but still 1dx mark iii does not over heats and its so reliable in client shoots
Omkar Gaonkar I like both of them, but I prefer the 1dx iii for professional work as well
Griffin Conway yeah both of them are amazing. But will you recommend R5 as a secondary camera?
Omkar Gaonkar depends on what type of work you do. For me, I will be using it primarily as a photo camera and only a little as a video camera. I will use my cinema camera for my main video work
Griffin Conway exactly
How about photography wise, what is the breakdown? Also, why are people using photo cameras to do videos instead of buying a video camera? Why aren't people buying video cameras and using it for photos?
These cameras shoot 5.5k raw and 8k raw. They are very much hybrid cameras now. The days of them “only being photography cameras” is long gone. Also, for what it’s worth I own several cinema cameras, and still occasionally choose one of these tools for the job.
ThankS hOw do u open the 1DX III RAW files In Adobe PS Or BR
Thanks for the breakdown Griffin. With your 1DX3 raw footage, which technical LUTs are you using, to normalize the footage? Alexa, or downloading from Canon? Thanks in advance.
thank you so much! you really helped me with my decision
This is a GREAT comparison. Love real-world comparisons! Thank you!
Thanks Aaron!
The more I see about the R5 overheating issues the more I think Canon can easily fix with software update. If possible, they should at least just cap a recording limit at 8k and 4k 120 but then allow you to jump back to 1080 120 or 4k 60. We'll see what happens I guess.
I cancelled my R5 and decided to go with a 1dx mkii. Very stoked on the new purchase!
Great video!!
I agree! I would love a 1080 120 update that doesn’t overheat in the R5 and also a version of the 4K 60p that doesn’t overheat as well, even if it comes with a crop or loss of AF
8K is putting too many eggs into too small a basket. But Canon was falling behind and needed to be more competitive and the R5 was born. Thing is, if you need continuous video then get a dedicated video camera. Otherwise, just use the camera within its limits (which is more than enough time) and you'll be fine.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Glad you did a comparison of 1DX mk3 vs R5. I also appreciated your comments about mk2 below in one of the comments.
Now it is clear, I stick to my mk2 for some time. Let's hope Canon fixes video issues in R5 mk2 soon.
Thanks for checking the video out Andrey! I agree the 1dx2 is still a beast!
@@GriffinConway i was thinking to sell my 1dx2 bodies for R5 bodies. i do primarily shoot photos but wanted to really start doing more video. im not sure about the over heating issue with the R5 seems a bit risky. maybe ill stick to the 1 series.... what would you suggest having used the 1dx2 for so long?
Great video, really good comparisons. It works pretty well for shooting wildlife. I shoot a lot of stock footage and you generally don't shoot more than 1-5 mins when you find an animal, and then it takes you another 15-60 mins or more to find something else. I originally planned to shoot everything either 8k RAW or 4k/120p but I quickly found that to be impractical due to file sizes and overheating. Even with long down-times between shots the camera was overheating on me after a couple of hours in the field, and you often spend all day out shooting. So now I basically just shoot 4k/60p with everything, and only use 8k if I really need to crop in post for extra zoom, or 120p if I really need super slow motion. You can shoot wildlife all day if you limit it to 4k/60p and remember to turn it off as soon as you are done shooting an animal. Note the quieter the shutter the better for wildlife, so the loud clicky shutter on the 1 DX Mark III is a big negative for wildlife shooting. The quieter mechanical shutter on the R5 is way better for me.
Interesting take on the shutter. For me I like the loud shutter for working with talent so they can hear when photos are being taken, but if you talent is animals in nature it would probably make sense for the quiet shutter. Thanks for sharing your experience Roger!
@@GriffinConway The R5 has 2 mechanical shutter sounds. It defaults to a quieter hybrid of electronic and mechanical which dampens the sound. The full mechanical is much noisier.
In comparison, 1DXIII shutter is way too loud. I shoot bird/ wildlife and R5 subtle shutter sound is very welcome. Its 45 mp at 12/20 FPS is awesome as I need to crop a lot.
I'm glad to hear you are getting good use out of 4K60 - I was really hoping this would work for my wildlife too - I tried it out and got an overheat warning pretty much straight away after shooting about a thousand images. Normally I wouldn't shoot that many but with birds in flight and 20 FPS it happens. I'll try again. The overheating after stills really took me by surprise with this camera, if it weren't for that, I could get by no problem. Back to 1080 I guess!
@@WillGoodlet I've found that just having the camera on, regardless of what you do with stills or not, causes your video time to reduce rapidly. So it's not that you are shooting a lot of bird stills, the camera is just penalizing you for keeping it powered up. Basically it's a software thing Canon seems to have baked into the firmware. I don't think the camera really detects any overheating through any of this. For now best you can do is power it off and keep it powered off for as much time as possible throughout the day.
was waiting for that type of comparison. thanks man for putting in the hours :)
Thanks a lot Basti! Appreciate you checking the video out bro!
I appreciate your thoughts. I have an R5 on order but I plan to hang on to both my 1DX II and III for many years. With the Mark III coming out at the beginning of the pandemic and with sports having been shut down for so many months, it hasn't been getting much attention.
Thank you for checking the video out! I agree the mark iii is an awesome camera. Still my favorite stills camera of all time
Has your opinion changed on the R5 in 2021? If R5 gets the rumored 1080 120fps with no overheating, will your opinion change as well? Just curious. Great job!
Great video. R5 overheating. Yeah, I'm out. I'm sticking with my 1DX mark ii for now. It delivers.
Hey Joe! I actually had a section in here talking about how my older 1dx Mark ii that I sold could reliably record 4K 60p and 120p all day long without heat issues and that would probably be a better buy than the R5 for professionals but the video was getting too long so I cut it out. The 1dx Mark ii is still one of my favorite cameras of all time. It paid for itself many times over in my production.
@@GriffinConway Thanks. Good note on the 1DX mark ii. Gotta love the kit you already own in this environment.
Brilliant real-world no bull-dust review, thank you!
What do you think about the Leica SL2? Is it a better choice of camera over the 1Dx Mark III?
It is an interesting camera. To be honest I don’t know too much about it. For me, I value the 1DX3 primarily because it is built like a tank and is super weatherproof, so I would choose that one.
It seemed like the 1dx fell off the radar pretty quick. Right now though it's my dream camera.
That’s true not a ton of info out there. It’s a great camera but it got overlooked by all of the people excited about a cheaper camera with better specs (R5).
Griffin Conway people got so excited about the R5 and forgot that the 1DXMiii. With the R5 issues, the 1DX is a better video camera hands down. The camera can have all the best specs in the world but if it don’t work then it isn’t the right camera.
@1:25 how do you set C-Log 2 on 1DX Mk3?
Awesome video - just wondering the interview shots at 09:36 - was this shot in 4K HQ on the canon R5 ?? wondering if that would close the gap IQ wise with the others..
Love to see more Canon R5 4K HQ footage & your thoughts ! cheers
Hey bro, I've been really blessed by your videos. Just picked up the 1dx iii! QUESTION: Will recording in log automatically be 10 bit as opposed to 8 bit, or is that something you have to set up in camera? Also, how in the HECK do you create a proxy to edit the 4k files. My MacBook can't play them through, like you mentioned in your video! Thanks and keep em coming!
Hey Simon! Thanks for checking the videos out and glad to hear you have been enjoying them. I’ve been thinking of making a workflow video using h.265 files. When you shoot in canon log on the 1DX3 it automatically shifts it to 10 but h.265, and when you shoot in a non-log profile it shoots in 8 bit. I’ll try to get that workflow video out soon!
@@GriffinConway Dude so helpful! That cleared it up! Appreciate what you're doing out here
The 1dx shutter sounds the best🔥🔥🔥
Great video man! Thank you for putting in all this work for us. It must take a lot. Also I'm sold on the 1dx mark iii. Good upgrade from the mk ii
Awesome! 1dx iii is a great cam. Feel free to use one of the links below for the 1DX iii if you would like to support the channel. They are affiliated links
Hey Griffin! Any tips for working with H.265 codec? I can create proxies during the editing process, but how do you suggest organizing/ renaming your clips and sifting through the footage before loading them into Premiere? I can't preview anything so I'm not sure what clips are what before the editing starts if that makes sense! Really love the channel! Hope you blow up man!
An entertaining comparison if not a very logical one. One is a dedicated pro stills camera (w/video features), the other may share capability but its not for pro use. That means all day reliable operation. I think his comparison showed why they are not in the same category. Neither is a dedicated video camera, but the R5 reached its limit a lot sooner than the much more robust 1DX. People should keep that in mind, when they think because R5 is 8K that its a better camera for less.
One question about the 1dx mark iii and the Ninja V.. Can you monitor Clog 2 Raw output from the camera through the Ninja V? I am trying to do it, but i can only monitor CLog 1 and then i also have no waveforms..
At 9:36 you say the 1DX3 is slightly more detailed. But either the R5 is out of focus, or the 1DX3 is twice as sharp. The difference is huge to me. Look at the lost detail in the hair.
Did you use the oversampled quality 4K, or the pixel binning 4K on the R5?
Regular 4K on the R5. The HQ mode overheats too fast
Nice, How about the dynamic range?
If you think the 1 Dx Mk III is fast moving around the autofocus points, you clearly have not found the „touch & drag“-option on the R5. You can move the autofocus point so much faster and more precisely on a mirrorless, it ´s not even a comparison
I’ve used it and don’t like it. I shoot with my left eye so my nose always hits the screen and accidentally moves the AF point
Griffin Conway I shoot with my left eye as well and I love touch & drag. Maybe my nose is too small to interfere :-)
@@GriffinConway That could actually be a feature. "Look ma, no hands!!!" :)
1DX MKIII is amazing and I love mine! As for the R5, there are people hacking the internal battery switch to over ride the system... proving its a timer issue and not thermal. too bad it had to come to that, but I bet that Canon is scrambling like mad to update the software... that's if it is possible. Otherwise a R5 MKII will be the only solution.
Looks like we got an update for the R5 that is supposed to help. I haven’t tested it myself yet though. As for the 1DX3 it is still a beast!
Does the 1DX Mark III auto focus in 120fps 1080 video setting? I'm seeking autonomous setup on tripod, whilst I walk into the frame for self video recording.
I sold my 1Dx and got the EOS R a while back but really miss the 1dx. Just the way 1dx feels in my hand is really fun to shoot. Now I am torn between 1 Dx iii and R5+ 28-70f2. I primarily shoot family, kids, newborns studio etc. any suggestions
Totally agree, I absolutely love the feeling of the 1dx 3. I like the tilt screen on the r5 though as well as the EVF. Also that 28-70 would probably be the perfect lens for all those uses you mentioned. I might check out the r5 with a battery grip and see if you like it!
Why do you think the 4K comparison looked more "detailed" with the 1DX3? I've seen a few comparisons (Like Parker Wallbeck's) and the R5 was signicantly sharper than the 1DX3 and A7SIII in 4K HQ. I also noticed the 1DX3's 1080/120 was much noisier than the R5 4k/120.
Btw, I had a 1DMk3 for about 12 years and it was a beast.
77dris the 1dx iii 4k looked more detailed to my eyes on my monitor so that’s why I added that note on the interview clips. The R5 was shot in 4K “non-hq” mode because in an interview setting I wouldn’t be able to record long enough without overheating in HQ mode. Since it was in an interview use case setting I wanted tit to be applicable to how I would shoot. I know you can use HQ mode with a ninja v but I don’t like using external recorders if you cannot simultaneously record internally. I’ve had too many issues with them and learned not to trust them the hard way. Also, Parker’s video was great, but he used RF lenses on the R5 and EF lenses on the 1dx iii. Most rf lenses are sharper than ef. I used matching lenses on both cameras.
Every time you post a video 🔥🔥🔥. got my bell notifications on!! Thank you for this #GOAT 🐐
Thanks a lot Malo! I appreciate you bro!
also when comparing the 4k was this the 4K HQ on the R5 or regular 4K ?
Thanks for the comparison, initially as a wildlife shooter I was going to go for the 1DX iii but the stills capabilities are very good on the R5, especially for someone like me using the shorter 400 f2.8. I'm disappointed about it's habit of overheating after intense stills use (mine certainly does). It's almost perfect for me, I can't use OVF for video as my short distance eyesight has got too bad so the EVF makes it much easier for me to shoot video clips in confined spaces. Really hoping this firmware update adds something. Reliable 4K60 would make it perfect for my use.
I agree 4K 60 that doesn’t overheat would go a long way. I wish the 1dx iii has an EVF and flip screen and it would be perfect
The R5 battery life was what pushed me to the 1 DX III. I use a Hoodman loupe on the rear screen for video and when I stack teleconverters on my 600mm and it brings it to f11 and I can only use live view for stills.
What would you recommend between 1dx mark 2 vs R5 for a person who wants to learn videography? I am having a hard time choosing between them. I do photography but want to upgrade for a camera which can do both for me. Thank you.
Both are great options. If you have a local canon dealer that will let you try them out in the shop I would suggest that. Aside from the price difference, I would say a lot of it is personal preference and whether or not you prefer a lighter camera or a bigger heavy duty one
@@leohotv hey. I bought 1dxmark 2. it's good but go with r6.
how does the raw on the 1dx in Clog 2 compare to the c500? I use it with the IPB proxies, conforming them when i send the files to the colorist. Works very smoothly.
Check my c500 mark ii vs 1dx Mark iii video...the raw is almost identical
This was helpful. I know what you mean about overheating and durability. My b-camera is the older 1DC with the C300 MII. We just got our R5 a couple of months ago and thought about swapping it out with 1DC next time we go international. But I think we’ll take all three for peace of mind. Thanks Griffen!
I always wanted a 1dc but never got one. Such an awesome camera and built like an absolute tank.
@@GriffinConway so you also shoot on a C500 correct? We own two C300’s and a C300MII. And hoped we could match the MII to the older C300’s for multicam work, but we find the MarkII to come out more red then the other two older C300’s. Have you run across such a difference in camera chip processing in various Canon models? We usually have right turn arounds and try not to use C-Log and match in camera as much as possible.
Great review. Thank you 🙏
Another great review. Pleasure watching them.
Thanks for the support!
Hi thank you I some day soon I will get a Canon 1D X mark III, I will stat saving up in 2024.
Great job, great video man!
Thanks Jason!
Hey griffin! Could you make a new video regarding experience with the new firmware update for the r5?
Hey Felipe! Just updated yesterday and used it on a job today. I will use it some more and probably make a review video in a little while
Griffin Conway As a teaser, how’d it do ?
New C500 mark ii owner. Would love to see more videos on it and how you rig it out for shoots! Keep up the solid videos!
Hey Fraser, that’s awesome to hear. The c500 Mark ii is an amazing camera. I’ve got a video coming very soon that is a rig breakdown of my c500 Mark ii
Just a amazing video! Thanks for your real life comparison. This channel is GOAT all the way! How is the R5 now after the firmware 1.10 update? Digging it more? I had the MK2 & EOS R twice. Need to get stuff done. MK3 will be the one for me. Looks like the next firmwares are on the way too. Thanks again! And please make case specific rig vid’s too. Cheers and stay safe!
Thanks a lot! I plan on doing lots more shooting with the new firmware and I will make an updated video. Thanks for checking it out!
Griffin Conway Just a heads up, I got some slow card errors with my new 1DXMK3 during a shoot day 3hrs in. I was using a 512gb Agfaphoto 1700/1400 cfexpress card. Did tests with the sama spec (up to 1700/1490) Sandisk with no problems. Angelbird seems to make even better XT-models for sustained high data rate.
I was shooting different 4K modes..
Cheer mate! Could you also include your take / configuration on the hdmi output signal to atomos ninja V in clog/10? It seems that the mk3 sends the view assist signal out of the hdmi out if activated and not the plain clog as you would think. Any ideas?
Thanks again!
Did you use the super 35mm mode on the R5. Saw a video that found that mode to be very good.
No I didn’t test that mode at all
Great video, big guy. Very helpful.
Thank you!!
Very helpful, thanks for doing this!
Thanks Anthony!
Man, I feel like the 1dxiii is the perfect gimbal camera. I shoot a lot of handheld with my cinema cam, which is typically my A cam but I want to snag a 1dxiii and just leave it balanced on my Ronin MX 24/7 to be able to get those gimbal pickup shots when I need.
I agree Sam! For quick shots it’s really great and the reliable AF is amazing for gimbal work. I use it on my ronin s quite a bit
And it would matches the c300iii and c500ii so perfectly. It would be such a great b cam.
By the way, I got my battery plate from full frame camera co. last week! Thanks so much for the recommendation. It’s like the perfect solution for those cameras 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
I like your style. You just sad about all the points in real world use. Thank you for your job!
Haha thanks.
So the 1DX3 doesn't overheat, whatever You throw at it....?
Any way, funny that You say that if photography is Your thing, get the R5, I am going to buy the 1DX3 because it is probably the last pro optical viewfinder camera that Canon are going to make, it is way out of my economic league, but I gotta have it....
I may get an EVF camera down the line, but I simply got to have thát 0.76x 100% optical viewfinder available in my bag....
Nice work as usual. Enjoy the R5 when in use!
Always appreciate the support Mike!
Bro. I just wanted to jump in right away before the video is even done. Thank you for this comparison. Very very helpful!
Thanks a lot! I appreciate you checking the video out!
Great video, really enjoyed. I’d have to say that the flip screen and 4K 120 are huge advantages over the 1DX. I have the r5 and the 1dx (mark 2)
The weight and ibis are also huge fir be. I can hold with a heavy lens in one hand and tap to focus with the other and it looks like it’s on a tripod. This is too hard with the 1dx.
The R5 is a great camera for sure. I like the weight and size because of the size of size of my hands. But when I use small lenses it’s hard to beat the small form factor of the R5. All thy said, I really wish the 1dx iii had a tilt or flip screen and 4K 120p!
Does the 1dx mark III provide more than 12 stops of dynamic range when shooting Raw?
I have never scientifically tested but I would guess it is 12-13 stops
love your review style
this is the perfect comparison that ı can find about r5 vs 1dx mark 3 thx fot the everything
thanks for the video dude!
Great review! Subscribed
Thanks Michael!
Great comparison of the cameras!
ED PR thanks a lot!
Thank you so much for sharing this video. A very fair review.
This is a very fair review. 👏🏻 When you need to get work done, you have to be able to rely on your tools. The R5 is amazing and I love it, but overheating is not cool. It’s completely frustrating to have a fantastic piece of tech turn into a brick. Also why I’ll keep my 1DX3 in my back pocket - even if I shoot primarily stills.
I agree! 1dx 3 is a beast. Even though the R5 has better specs I still feel it is not a flagship replacement
Griffin Conway Of course. Totally! Not a replacement at all. This is more the 5D4 replacement. All I know is they better include that AF Smart Controller on the R flagship 😂👏🏻
I still have one of my Canon 1Dc cameras, LOL, and the build quality is top notch... a producer nocked one over once and broke a piece of the EF mount off... We were able to use the camera for the rest of the day, can't say the same for the Canon 70-200 2.8 L V2 that was on it, LOL Anyhow, I've been thinking about picking up a 1Dx MK III for an upcoming TV commercial... maybe I'll rent... Appreciate your take on these cams, stay well brother!
My Man. Good job. I feel once you have a 1Dx and get used to that build quality there's no comparison. Once again I think the 1DX is the best hybrid camera. The overheating issue is just downright criminal and useless
Totally agree, that build quality is hard to leave once you get used to it. Looking forward to the mirrorless 1 series body they make after the 1dx iii...all I really don’t like about the 1dx iii is no EVF and no flip screen.
9:08 Which 4K mode are you shooting at? HQ or regular?
The only mode that would be suitable for an interview without an external recorder is the regular 4K, so that’s what I used.
@@GriffinConway That makes sense. Video was really soft compared to the IDX. Thing is the APS-C crop 4k mode is really the way to go IMO for times where you really don't need Full Frame because it's unlimited recording and its very sharp doing a downsample from over 5k. You should do a video on the APS-C crop vs FF...not just on what looks shaper but a video on when would you actually need FF and when you would need APS-C mode based on the RF lens. APS-C would my go to for an interview since I don't need FF.
Can you match the Clog 2 Canon Raw from the 1dx mark iii with the H.264 Colors? I cant seem too..
I think the key is shoot in h.265 because it is 10 bit and will allow you to shoot in clog 1. It is pretty easy to match the clog 1 to clog 2
@@GriffinConway Thanks for the reply man! I unfortunately don't have the luxury of being able to transcode it with my time limits. But somehow the colors on the H.264 are just amazing. Try it out and see for yourself. (and it playsback natively ofcourse)
Great stuff Griffin! 🤙
Thanks!
As a professional videographer isn't it better using a C line camera instead of a 1Dx series ?
Pity for the overheating in the R5, it's way better now with the new firmware but in my opinion it must do better
As a stills camera the R5 in one of the best out there, if Canon can keep up with the shipping of the pre ordered R5's
Here in Belgium and a big part of europe people are still waiting on their pre order, not so good for Canon's name
Depends on the job. If you are shooting photos and videos, sometimes it makes sense to shoot on a hybrid camera. That is what was demonstrated in the video. The production I run has 5 canon cinema cameras we use as our primary video cameras.
I think if Canon adds 1080p 120fps a lot of people can tolerate the R5. Then I don't see any problem doing the most work at these settings and getting only the most important shots in higher resolutions etc. If you really need to shoot talking heads in 8K or 4K HQ then you shouldn't be looking at dslrs / mirrorless bodies in the first place.
I agree 1080 120 would go a long way in making it more useable in the real world, otherwise the 1dx Mark is that was released in 2016 has a more reliable and useable120p
Nice. I love my 1DXm3 - it’s so bummer that the R5 has so much potential but can’t quite deliver.
1dx 3 is only getting better with the upcoming firmware update too!
Great comparison man! Gotta love the reliability of the 1DXIII! I wish they would give us log3 or even log2 in 10-bit on the 1DXIII.
Same! And a time lapse mode wouldn’t hurt either!
@@GriffinConway and animal eye focusing
Has anyone thought about swapping out the batteries and card before it overheats. Since that seems to be what is taking up the temperature.
I think people have tried a lot of different things, some more successful than others. For my professional work, I don’t see this as a realistic solution
what do you think about the s1h vs r5
I haven’t ever shot with the s1h. Specs look great but I don’t have any lenses for that system so I was never too in interested in trying it
@@GriffinConway yeah I completing agree with you and understand that but I am kinda trying to decide between them. the s1h is built like a tank ( like the 1dx m3). and has a fan but the af is defenly not as good as canons or Sony
Great review 👏 but I have to say you were slightly too biased towards your 1DX iii😊😊. Just subscribed, cheers!
Haha thanks Modikoe! I bought both so I’m not too biased for one or the other. They are both great cameras.
Thank You For AMAZING Review
Very Very Useful
Thank you!
So Expand the ISO range to 102400 and buy a grip? That would get the R5 closer to the 1DX mk3.
Hi Jack, I actually had a part in the video where I mentioned I am going to order a battery grip since I prefer the larger body but as I was cutting down the video to make it shorter I chopped it out. The ISO for video shooting only goes to 51,200 not 102,400 though. In stills mode it expands to 102,400 on the R5 but not in video.
@@GriffinConway The Canon cripple hammer lurks its ugly head again I suppose.
In other news Lightroom, camera raw, etc all got updated today.
The one shot of the C500 looked so good! Enjoyed the review in general though.
Haha I thought the same thing. I like both the R5 and 1dx but I think the c500 colors grade much easier
@@GriffinConway You are not using the great Raw on the 1DX III ... convert to Clog 2 and it will be so close to the c500.
CFExpress cards are a minimal expense ... and hard drive storage cost have plummeted ... and you should be able to pass those
cost on to the client.
All of my personal video is in Raw ... long form interviews I default to 4K All I to a Video Devices PIX-E5 in ProRes HQ ...
prefer the 5.5K Raw overall.
Thank you for this
I shoot high school sports and I was thinking of the R5 but undecided
Mostly photos or videos? They are both good options
96% Photos, I am just started down the video road.....
Thank u Griffin for this video
Thanks Leo!
@0:50 - @0:52 - what camera shot those BTS shots? [guess it's the same one also from @0:23 ?]
:23 was the eos r and :50 :52 was the 1DX3
@@GriffinConway Bless you and the 1DX series.
For some reason it's the only [Canon] camera where movement is captured so cinematically. I just don't know why?! What's the mojo they inject in that camera that's different than the DSLRs? The 1DX footage feels like a cinema line camera.
Yes I needed this video thank you
Jayfilmsvideography awesome thanks for checking it out!
Good stuff bro 👍🏽
Thanks Teddy!
Thanks for your video. I appreciate and respect your opinions! In my view, Canon is playing with fire releasing the R5 with such obvious constraints. It is one thing to be in front on specs but another to burn a customer on a job. I hope they can come up with improvements and C-LOG3 in the next firmware.
I heard clog3 is confirmed and coming to the R5. Also, since the last firmware update it is performing much better now
@@GriffinConway Good to know. Hopefully one more push can put the camera into safe territory. I have read C-LOG3 can be as much as two stops wider than C-LOG. Never used either. Do you think it will be a noticeable difference between the two? Change the camera's image etc...
@@timpolster I am very familiar with both and the change is significant. It is a noticeable improvement in dynamic range in clog 3
@@GriffinConway Thanks for your info. Good to know. That is enticing enough for me to wait for the firmware release before making a purchase decision between the R5/R6 and an a7SIII.
It’s so sad that canon still does not offer a great mirrorless camera for video work :( it really puts a bad light on the whole company
1DX3 is kind of a beast. If you are looking at internal codecs, it might be considered the best hybrid camera on the market. 5.5k 60p raw internal is incredible for situations when you can’t use an external recorder like in an underwater housing etc
The sparring slow-mo was fantastic. They're still friends right? 😁
Haha yes they are!
you are OG :) thanks for the comparison
Thank you!
Thank you for this video!
This video is from 2 years ago, I may have the chance to trade an R6 for the 1 DX Mark III. I want better video, the other person is a photographer that wants a lighter camera.
Yes finally!
Haha took a little longer than expected!
Pretty much the same conclusions I came up with... but you did it with actual tests.. ).... Also keeping the R5 because I love photography and there the R5 shines... but for sure it is not the camera I am taking to the Everglades with me,, which is a shame because even my old 7D M2 I could always count on
Totally agree Bryan! Reliability is key for users like us!
We currently have a go pro hero 8, but really looking for a 2nd camera, so found this really interesting and helpful bro, hope you're well and having a great week so far. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us really appreciate it bro stay safe and catch up again real soon God bless you 🙏👍❤️
That’s awesome! Thanks for the kind comment I appreciate it 🙏
I appreciate your work
Thank you!
Totally agreed! Gear is only there to "enable" us to do what we want. If it hinders what we do, then we don't own them, they own us... (kinda fight club quote there :))
Exactly! And I love the fight club reference haha