Being Gay the Medieval Way! | Homosexuality During the Middle Ages...
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- Throughout history, there have always been people who belong to the LGBTQ community. In Antiquity same-sex relations were common, and it was acceptable for men to have both male and female lovers outside of marriage. Regarded as a way of controlling the population, Plato compared the acceptance of homosexuality to democracy and its repression to tyranny. Both the terms heterosexuality and homosexuality were not created until the 19th century, and there was no understanding of these terms in the Middle Ages. No one in medieval Europe would have referred to themselves or anyone else as ‘gay’, ‘straight’, ‘lesbian’, ‘transgender’ or ‘bisexual’. There was only normal and abnormal sexual behaviour, and what was normal was decided by the Christian Church at that time. For the most part, there aren’t many historical resources during the Middle Ages about same sex relationships between women, although any sort of sex that did not result in conception was known as sodomy. In fact, the church was antagonistic to any form of sexual expression at all.
0:00 Introduction
1:42 Justinian
2:42 Sodomy
6:45 Knights
8:52 Persecution
🎶🎶 Music by CO.AG: / @co.agmusic
Narrated by James Wade
Edited by James Wade & Adam Longster
Thank you for watching.
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If a medieval theologist were alive today they'd probably be surprised that we legalized divorce long before gay marriage. Neither were allowed in the middle ages, but the case against divorce was arguably a lot stronger than the case against being gay.
Not that there even is a case to be made against homosexuality to begin with.
@@kenichiotaku3693 pretty sure he’s only speaking in terms of Abrahamic religion, he did say “theologist”
@@bendover9813 I'm not sure I see what your statement has to do with either one of ours
@Straight white unvaccinated male Not if one knows a thing or two about sex ed, biology and the spectrum of sexuality and gender identity. Especially when one is enough of a grown up to not take anything of the supernatural seriously.
@Straight white unvaccinated male Only in your twisted worldview
The Cathares deserve a full episode....thanks.
+
Your welcome.
@@hildahilpert5018 🤔 for what
I remember reading that homosexuality between men was tolerated in Greek and Roman societies but homosexuality for women was frowned upon. The heroes in Greek Tragedies didn't shy away from it. Hercules, the most respected Greek hero in ancient and current times was said to be bisexual. Blatantly bi. No implications, no subtly, just 100% he had boyfriends and wives.
Greek and Roman societies sexual roles were defined as men and women roles. There wasn't really an idea of homosexuality. Men who "received" were viewed as lesser
Greco-Roman sexuality was "Top/Bottom" not Straight/Gay. You could have gay sex as long as you were the one on top: being penetrated by another man was seen as an incredibly shameful act, to the point that in some Scandanavian cultures, you were legally allowed to kill a man if he insinuated you were a bottom.
the difference between homosexuality in classical antiquity and modern homosexuality is they never romanticized it. They were just getting their rocks off, and then they'd go home to their wives. Today it's like everyone drank soy juice and lost every ounce of testosterone in their bodies.
The greek city of Thebes had an elite warrior group called the "Sacred Band" which consisted of 150 couples of homosexual lovers. The expression "lesbian" is based on the greek poetess Sappho of Lesbos who praised the beauty of girlfriends or female students in her works.
@@lanzknecht8599 I know the origin for the term Lesbian. Going off memory, Sappho was criticized for her love for women because she is a woman and not a gay man. Very odd double standard back then. Makes me wonder how'd we go from "women can't be gay but men can" to "all homos shall burn" to what we have now.
Justinian was so deep in the closet he was finding Christmas presents...
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
He was so far in the closet he was in Narnia.
Yeah it was do as I say not as I do for most of the nobility. The debauchery that went on at masked balls comes to mind.
This is why his relationship with Belisarius was so rocky
So deep he's in Narnia
Homosexuality occurs in nature, so it can’t be unnatural. This shows the importance of separation of church and state.
such a lame excuse for a fetish. same sex animals trying to mount eachother is not homosexuality. it's animal domination. those are acts of animals.. humans are more advanced in every way than animals.
Were does homosexuality occur in nature?
Come to think of it, there is homosexuality in nature but no churches.
@@thegodfather_8455 Pandas, albatrosses, dolphins, and many species of primates, to give but a small selection of the whole
@@alexisauld7781 that's interesting never knew that.
Knights can be gay within knighthoods because the love for the homie can be matched by no other
Nicely put haha
I always kiss thy brethren good knight
Brethren before wenches!
So women are useless outside of birth as men naturally don’t love women as much as men
So they were deterred from marriage because they could leave their money to their families and not the church. I’m surprised I hadn’t heard this but at last it makes sense as it always comes back to greed.
No purity, only money. Religion sucks
That's the Catholic church for you.
It was worse than that - there was the concern that bishops - Princes of the Church - would leave their thrones to their children. Then again, how many of the Roman clerics with the title of "Cardinal Nephew" were in fact papal bastards?
In a farm-based society of the Middle Ages, you faced economic ruin if you did not have children, so the consequences were too great to even consider homosexuality. Secondly, the peasantry faced a very difficult and short life, with death and despair all around them, so they were very, very concerned with doing the things which would guarantee an afterlife in heaven. The exceptions to this were the nobility and rulers and clergy who could only maintain their authority by being savagely ruthless.
True, but it looks as though scholars, clerics and nuns found a way to be gay. By their own doctrines they weren't allowed to marry or have kids so that makes sense they would be gay to escape that loophole by serving the church
Many homosexuals married and produced children. Edward II, rumored to be homosexual, fathered four children. If same sex attraction did not interfere with the production of heirs, the private lives of royals and noblemen was generally tolerated.
That Friday the 13th Templar massacre really boils my blood for some reason. I do faintly remember that story from grade school. Idk if it just stripping a group of warriors of their honor, or doing it in such a shameless way and cause you wanted the shiny things in their pockets.
The Templars still exist, and they are still a cancer on the world.
In most parallel universes Friday 13th is celebrated as the downfall of the Banksters, this Universe appears to be the outlier in this case.
Both!
@@edwardmiessner6502 Ahhhh this one definitely awake ...
Weren't the templars frequently awful, like thieves/rapists/drunks? And they killed a lot of innocent people during the crusades. I think very few of them were actually heros...
Hey awesome vid! But i just wanted to say that there are more than one view on this subject, we briefly touched it in my medieval history class at uni too. I was always taught that in the middle ages homosexuality laws (when present, not always the case) were enforced very rarely and sporadically, starting to be enforced more vigorously just by the end of the middle ages and into the late 15th / early 16th century. Florence itself as you cited, simply fined homosexual acts, but usually only in cases of rape and pedophilia.
Renowned italian medievalist Alessandro Barbero supports this thesis, and points out how homosexuality is a fairly common theme in literature as well, tho usually for hilaric purposes. The Decameron, a collection of Italian stories from the 1300s features two for example, in which the protagonist is an homosexual, as in "no interest in women" with this well known in their community.
I don't want to jump to conclusions, nor to pose as an expert, but I think it's important to differenciate from what were rules and lecutures by the church and powers and what was the actual societal stance in this regard, because that is an error i see people do WAY TOO OFTEN while studying medieval history.
We know for a fact that sex was no taboo in general in the middle ages as it is has led us to belive, due to the fact that documents and sources we have on the medieval society mostly comes from scholars of the church and other clergymen, which had extremly biased views, that were probably distinct and disconnected to the feelings and lifestyle of the common people. Medieval non religious literature is instead full of sex, as it was naturally their own society, despite the efforts of the churcch to regulate it. a common trope in the stories that they left us (especially in french literature) is of the image of the local priests as the seductors of women, as it was common to make fun of the clergy that preached rules they themselves didn't respect, such as concubinage, which remained common for priests throughout the middle ages despite being a banned and condemned practice.
Now I agree that we shouldn't base ourselves just on literature and "folk" culture to find answers to this subject, but to just look into the writings of scholars and clergymen and pointing it out as "how homosexuality was viewed in the middle ages" is EVEN MORE misleading.
I think that it is safe to assume that the common idea of the medieval church as an Orwellian "all seeing eye" that is costantly on the hunt for people who had sex the wrong way is a myth. and that for the most part, these acts went on unnoted and unpunished.
But the middle ages was a long and very fractured time period and it's hard to pin down a common answer, because as in many societies of the past and of today it proably varied a lot, based on your local community, place, social status wether you live in a city or in the countryside and many other factors.
sorry for possible grammar mistakes, english is not my first language
Firstly, homosexuality is not an act - sodomy certainly is. No distinction was made between homosexuality and sodomy until very recently. Sodomy has been decriminalised FAR longer than homosexuality. It was most certainly punished very avidly, and was often used to denounce neighbours, husbands, wives, lovers, enemies, or political rivals. Where anti homosexuality laws existed, the punishments were invariably rigorously enforced, unless you were of a rank and status that allowed you to escape punishment. Might I suggest avoiding more religious accounts of persecution of "enemies of God", or those written with Christian or heteronormative bias. I recommend a book titled "Homosexuality & Civilization" (2003) by the late scholar Prof. Louis Crompton. It provides a very thorough and graphic account of punishments, statistics, and hidden statistics for those interested in discovering the full extent of the persecution of homosexuals - past and present.
@@wordscapes5690 Hi.
>"Firstly, homosexuality is not an act - sodomy certainly is. No distinction was made between homosexuality and sodomy until very recently. "
Yes, tho in this context sodomy is all sexual activity between two people that does not result in conception, Oral sex between a man and a woman would have been sodomy as well, i was referring specifically to homosexual activity.
>"It was most certainly punished very avidly"
Not necessarily, especially in a very decentralized and unburocratic society like medieval Europe.
Evidence suggests that for the large part of the middle ages homosexuality when occouring went mostly under the radar. Like probably many other things they considered "perverse", as homosexuality as you pointed was percieved as a perverse act, not an identity.
>"Might I suggest avoiding more religious accounts of persecution of "enemies of God", or those written with Christian or heteronormative bias."
That's LITTERALY the entire point of my previous comment, that was my argument.
I hope i didn't came across mean.
Great points! I totally agree.
@@gabrielboi3465 Just being a homosexual doesn’t mean you go around just having sex with the same gender, you fall in love with someone idiot.
@@gabrielboi3465 first off, your English is very clear and completely understandable. :) this is a great comment and thank you for sharing! I was wondering if you could recommend books or articles that expound on the things you've said here.
To be honest, I anticipated that being gay in medieval Europe would be significantly more difficult than it turned out to be. Surprisingly, the situation was somewhat similar to present-day Saudi Arabia or Iran. One could even argue that being gay in medieval Europe was preferable to being gay in modern Saudi Arabia, as there was an opportunity for repentance in medieval Europe, whereas in Saudi Arabia, homosexuality is punished by hanging.
In the middle ages it was not such a kind place even well into 1700's homosexuality in the Western world led to trial, prison and executions even in the Netherlands one of the most liberal countries in the time, with the Utrecht sodomy trials of 1730. Sodomy was a criminal offense and often let to mutilation and death, do some research. Gay rights is something of the 20th century in the west and a gradual process, people went to prison in Europe or 'voluntary' (pressure by doctor) castrated well into the 1950's.
I think medieval genital mutilation as a punishment is way worse than hanging, but that's just my opinion
@@Njuregen SODOMY WAS A FILTHY BUSINESS. Anal sex is more a modern tradition on gay community. Before modern showers and other anal clean methods, get into anal sex leave the top with that smell that everybody can recognize.
Proof these countries never left medieval thinking
Whenever I think of ancient homosexuality I always remember that episode of “Peep Show” (series 2 I think) when Mark thought he might be gay and attracted to his boss Johnson. He concluded that there was nothing wrong with homosexuality, because after all, “it was popular with the Romans and they got a lot done”. 😂
And............where is Rome? Rome became that way immediately before they were relegated to the garbage can of history by barbarians, lack of food, and a general societal malaise that signalled the demise of their culture. And here we are.
@@minkorrh I'm confused... Are you implying it was gays who were responsible for the fall of Rome?
@@karrg7832 that would be my guess as well
Actually homosexuality was equally shunned by the Romans and ancient Greek. At least in the open. Ancient Greeks called them kinaidei, shameful men, and anyone caught, both top or bottom, would be punished by losing all civil rights. Athenian citizens even lost the right to call themselves Greek, they were considered barbarian. Plato called for the death penalty for kinaidei. So the modern notion of the ancients being tolerant to open homosexuality is false.
It's comparable to the situation in many Arab countries. Morocco is considered a secret gay paradise for example. Just that openly they will never admit to this. Or for example read up on homosexuality in Saudi Arabia..
@@minkorrh the history understander has logged tf on lmao
I remember my friend once said he thinks seeing LGBT people in media / movies is “pushing the woke agenda” because it’s “not natural”. Like my brother on earth, what the _fuck_ you on about? That’s his Christian upbringing coming in hot lmao. But ofc he didn’t want to hear me saying that.
I apologize for my previous comment. I still dislike most conservatives except fiscal conservatives.
A few years earlier you truely changed my mind about how brainwashed we are due to patriarchy amd binarity. I watched this video and I was shocked that it never came to my mind that medieval christian values werent universal for the rest if the world. History truely gets written by the heroes, and there is a reason why nobody has a school history book about the queerness of people back in the days. Thank you so much for opening my eyes, for me you are a special stepping stone in my path in life
It is wierd how similar this discretion of medieval era to the current islamic world i live in😢 hope we here can have these rights in the future
"Thou shalt not kill", but boy do the church LOVE to kill.
"Remember soldiers, high fives when greeting women, manly tongue kisses when greeting men!" - King Leonidas, probably.
😂 😂
Amazingly accurate, I love this take 🎉
@@ambriajenna3263 your a women don’t you feel useless to men valueless
Sooo manly 😹😹
And to this day the struggles of being part of the LGBTQIA + community is still very hard. I as an American 🇺🇸 living in the USA can honestly say that currently in 2024 it is hard being LGBTQIA here. Many conservative states (especially) southern states have passed and legalized anti-lgbt laws. I live and am from California and even here where it is supposedly a progressive state even here it’s hard. A lot of Americans are starting to become conservative and it’s scaring me. This is actually a universal worldwide problem where the entire LGBTQIA+ community is suffering. Try being LGBTQIA+ in Latin America, Asia, Africa or the Middle East…..it’s even harder over there.
I'm a gay man. Grab your nuts and stand up! You are more free in America in 2024 than at any time in history. Whining about being oppressed when there is nothing that you can't do that a straight man can, makes you look uneducated! LGBT is the highest station in our current system, your endless complaints about struggle will get us all X'ed!! Are you that narcissistic that you think, you not being the center of the world means the world is wrong? You have NO IDEA what struggle is! Even amoung gays in America from the last 80 years you have it better. I am sick to Sunday of this attitude. GROW A PAIR! YOU ARE AMERICAN! ACT LIKE IT. stop whining about oppression and live your life. Many of us gave our lives so you could marry and have medical rights and any other right that any other citizen has. Ask Ryan White if you are oppressed, ask Rock Hudson if you are oppressed, ask Freddie Mercury if you are oppressed, and ask Matthew Shepherd if you are oppressed. You can't because they are not with us because they know what oppression is. Joker, what a waste!
A consistent theme, and one that continues to the present day, is that most homophobia comes from religion, specifically the Judeo-Christian (and also Islamic) family of faiths. It is no coincidence that countries that still lag behind with regard to LGBT rights are countries where religions have real power. That LGBT people have gained acceptance in the western world is largely because of the waning influence of religions there. If you want to improve treatment of LGBT people then criticise religions and religious organisations at every opportunity. They are the enemy of LGBT people. Secular, atheist and humanist groups are not homophobic, but then we don't base our morals on stupid beliefs about imaginary friends who live in the sky. As Voltaire is said to have remarked, "Men who believe absurdities will commit atrocities."
Imagine: people starving to death on planet earth, and some losers still getting hung up on who is allowed to love who. Let love rule.
It had nothing to do with the regular people, it was the super rich and wealthy trafficking children and exploiting them. And the sodomy happening in most churches where pedos would come into contact with young children. Much like they do today.
you mean disgusting hedonism?
Amen!
The church has been allowed too much power for way too long.
The church has always been a front for the Roman empire, whose blood lines and members still exist today through various organizations, basically some illuminati shit
God allows it man does not.
@@latergator4154 lol
Jesus warned of these wolves in sheeps clothing. Devil's hiding behind the Cross.
@@leonieromanes7265 numbers 31:18
The Church shouldn't have allowed the clergy to own any property - another proof of its' corruption long ago.
*acts gay medievally*
*bursts into flames for the real medieval gay experience*
hear ye hear he 🏳️🌈
Great video. People offended by history or LGBT shouldn't have clicked on a history video with a rainbow thumbnail then smh
You put a lot of effort into your videos and they're informative, keep it up homie
@Tyler Pruitt if they "disagree" with someone's existence then I don't really see how it is different from thinking less of them.
Bum hole for pooping!
As long as you don't get offended right
@Tyler Pruitt lol but yeah, they do.
@Tyler Pruitt Respect is an obligation. Specially when it doesn't harm you. Compliance isn't a factor. It isn't a matter of agreeing or not. You either respect or face consequences for it. That's how society works.
Important to remember that a lot of places around the world today still hold these views. Cheers ✌🏼
Sad to say you can still be murdered in todays world simply for being gay
@Careful with that Vax Euegene not thank god , these people are being murdered for being gay it’s not just frowned upon , they will kill you
It will take humanity a long time to stray away from the thousands of years of ignorant savagery it's trained itself to do, that is if we don't get hit with a meteor or blow ourselves up first.
My heart weeps for all of the innocents murdered over the course of human history
thank christ for that
@Careful with that Vax Euegene really?
Just this month, laws against homosexual acts and even thoughts have been passed in Uganda. the situation in Nigeria and other
African nations is no better. These laws reflect the British colonial heritage. This is exacerbated by the increased influence of some retrograde Christian sects in Africa.
Islam and Judaism are
opposed to homosexuality
as well as Christianity.
Also, what makes you think
that before meeting Europeans
that people in Africa (or any
other place) did not have
taboos against homosexuality
(or not) .... We don't know.
@@here_we_go_again2571 We may not know much, but that is irrelevant to this modern law making.
@@greggi47
Laws reflect (codify) the values of a
society. If the people of those countries
believe that homosexual relationships
are not beneficial for the society they
have the legal and moral right to make
laws that reflect those values.
That is just the way it is. Outsiders do
not have the right to impose their
values upon those societies. Those
who are opposed to the law have
the right to move elsewhere (once
they are adults) or to challenge those
laws peacefully (once they are adults).
HINT: "Gay Pride" parades are not the
way to win people to the view of pro-
homosexuality -- These events are vulgar
and degrading to the participants and
an insult to the society in which these
are held.
*A better solution might be to encourage*
*No P.D.A.s (No Public Displays of Affection)*
*for both heterosexual and homosexual*
*couples.* This would also entail censorship
or rating of film, TV and stage plays.
BTW: Islam, Judaism, Christianity prohibit
ALL sex outside of the bonds of "marriage"[1]
*This includes BOTH heterosexual and*
*homosexual relationships*
With "marriage" being both a legal
(arrangement, as approved by the state)
and spiritual vows given before clergy
and the couple's family, relatives.
I think the EU has it right with a state-
sponsored legal arrangement (civil
union sometimes called civil marriage)
That way a couple that wants a legal
arrangement to protect the partners
and offspring can have it
AND IF DESIRED
Followed by a private ceremony
held within a church, etc. to
satisfy the spiritual needs/wants
and cultural norms of that
particular group of people.
This allows any sort of "church"/
"religion" = Broad categories to
be sure! to adhere to the groups
beliefs.
___________________________
1.) "Marriage" being 1 man and 1 woman
...... (Christianity & modern Judaism) and
...... 1 man and multiple women (Islam)
The purpose being to create an institution
that provides a framework within a family
setting to support and raise the result(s)
i.e. child(ren) of a heterosexual relationship.
It's sad as an african that we are embracing this western ideals which have completely faded out in the western world 😢
this comment section is a whole ass circus lmfao. pretty good video, i was hoping there'd be a section about people that were actually LGBTQ from history though
There’s literally 5 comments sit down child. Stop being so sensitive.
@@TRUEDJRI "persecution is my favourite part of the video" totally isn't clown shit, right? gfy
@@natalyst first off child said person is most likely trolling. You’re feeding him stop 2 you can kindly go play in traffic. Idk who you are telling me to gfy but wrong person bud sit down
@@TRUEDJRI you're not cool, or a badass. calling people "child" is fucking cringe, and you're not some action movie main character that can hunt me down so you're not the "wrong person" either. i feel bad for your carer, they deserve way better than having to spend time with you :(
@@TRUEDJRI your point about the troll is valid, but please dont act like telling someone to go play in traffic is cool and edgy. You sound like someone who needs to relax. The op just said the comments were stupid which is true, and those "5" comments all have comments on them. Which is where the real shit show is as you can see. You call them a child but...you were the one who felt the need to tell off a "child" on RUclips lol
I genuinely cannot believe that now, in 2023, I am seeing comments from Christians talking about whether or not a naturally occurring thing is natural or not. By definition your god is not natural, he is a supernatural being and only exists as a concept. If anything, homosexuality is even more natural than the concept of your god. If something can occur on earth, it is a natural event. It’s as simple as that, magic is not natural therefore it does not exist on earth, homosexuality is natural therefore it exists on earth.
Religious nutcases love to cherry pick their favourite parts of their book.
I enjoyed this but need to mention 2 criticisms - your title implies life in medieval times for homosexuality, yet most of the video talks about those who were opposed to it and some of the consequences. The other point is that you mention most of these trends have been erased. Hmm..there are well over 60 countries in the world who criminalize homosexuality and many of these countries still use the death penalty for homosexuals. Aside from that even in the US they were voting on the right to marriage for same sex couples not long ago. So we still have a long way to go
Thank you for this educational video friend. Love ❤️ is love ❤️ Amen 🙏.
Funny how it was more at anger of monetary loss than any revulsion over said acts!
A year later and the US is trying to roll all of the progress back.
Thank you.
Very interesting.
Thank you.
Peace 💕🇺🇲
hope all my fellow lgbts from hundreds of years ago are resting in peace
🏳🌈⃠
Wow... You need to think your grammar though better. I hope it was an accident that you basically said "I hope all my fellow LGBTs are dead". You know for a fact that they are all resting in peace, therefore, grammatically the most reasonable interpretation of your comment is negative. Shameful.
@@awesomeferretyou must be fun at parties
@@coelacanthfan people who say strange things and then reply with irrelevant statements when they are asked about them aren't very fun at parties too. If only you knew how many parties I've thrown...
You accidentally exposed what kind of a person you are, so good day, and I wish you the best. I'm out before this nonsense goes too far.
Something you kinda missed about the Templar, the French king was the debt form the war yes, but a MASSIVE part of their debt was to the Templar’s. Lol so what do you do if you don’t want to pay your debts? Bring up false charges lol
So… they weren’t gay?
@@kibbykibby Some were, but probably biggest part was just false accused. It was just a political cause/pretext to solve money, power and influence issues.
Lending money to absolute monarchs has always been fraught with danger. While the profits can be good, there is always the danger that this sort of thing will happen to you. It's a tactic that has been used against Jews right up to modern times and against any other minority that can be used as a convenient scapegoat in order to seize their wealth.
I respect that you made this video even though I can hear in your voice that you don't have your normal enthusiasm in this video for.obvious reasons.
The church used to have a same-sex union ceremony called "brother-making" until clerics realized that same-sex couples were being provided a cover for homosexuality or "sodomy": in the 13th & 14th Centuries for Wester Europe, as late as the 19th in Southeastern Europe. (John Boswell, _Same-sex Unions in Premodern Europe_ )
The historical revisionism is strong with this one.
lol, Right? Their copium is almost as strong.
THIS CHANEL IS NOTHING MORE THAN A FRAUD!
How exactly lmao, he's citing sources from the time
@@morisan42 Fill your boots
ruclips.net/video/LmtaWSQmbnQ/видео.html
He’s not though, he’s cherry picking and probably fabricating/misleading. He disproves his own arguments if you actually listen
Just think, there's a good chunk of people in the world that would like for all of this stuff to continue (sadly it does in some countries where gays are murdered).
I absolutely do want this stuff to continue.
@@Dr.TJ_Eckleburg oh so you're just a bad person, thanks for letting everyone know!
@@Dr.TJ_Eckleburg Why? How about not being involved in something that is absolutely none of your business,
@@cerise4689 Don't feed the troll
They're not murdered.They know the countries laws and consciously break them resulting in conflict
How christian of them. Murdering other people 😅
Kinda glad that I live in the 21st century where it is, for now at least, legal here in Britain
Hearing about the genital torture was like a gut punch, that's sick. People are so crazy.
Absolutely, what is so sick is that god and his hench men on earth, are allowed and have always been allowed, to control male and female sexual sensations. We stand scandalized in todays world to hear of the African and Arab girls who suffer genital mutilation as part of their cultures. But we can´t castrate our rapists??????? The female body is still not her own, that is the right that we need to win as females. But the male genitals are wrapped in cotton wool now, we can´t touch those oh no! Precious! The precious male seed!!!! Hypocrasy is religious doctrination and when coupled with man-made gods on earth as well, is to subjugate all to the inhuman practices of homo erectus.
Hamurabi's law
Hello, transphobe! Wild how it's now politically correct to be tranphobic (but only if you're a Democrat apparently).
There are plenty of religious people alive today who would happily return to this kind of persecution.
thankfully religion's dying out.
What makes you think that it has ever stopped completely? Sodomy is still an offence in parts of the British Commonwealth, in Putin's Russia and much of the Moslem world. Even in the liberal West, it's only about 50 years since we were imprisoning and/or flogging homosexuals.
@@zoeymckeown3194Just as how not all people can be vegans or only omnivore, not all people can become only atheist or religious. This is something that will stay with us forever.
These people have a fundamentalist mindset and I am glad I got rid of that.
Even though their suffering has long since ended I feel a great sense of sympathy to the evils that were committed by those in power in the middle ages.
Women didn’t suffer quite as much during the Middle Ages as they did during the Tudors for example. In general it was a rubbish time but there are some misconceptions….. some.
I agree with both of you-
Humans are capable of great evil and hatred, and it's crazy to think there are still societies like this today-
Let's not argue over who had it worse, let's instead agree never to have such a bad system ever again.
Never understood the grouping of LGBTQ
It is important to remember that being gay, lesbian, etc. was not an identity until very recently in history. People weren't "gay" back then the way people might say they are now, it wasn't seen as a separate sexuality, rather an act or a deed that some people did. Applying recent terms like "LGBTQ" and whatnot is very misleading, as there was no gay community for almost all of history and these people would not have seen themselves as something separate from heterosexuals the way it is seen today.
Regardless of the ancient or current labels used by society---or the labels people attribute to themselves---homosexual love and attraction is a perfectly normal part of human sexuality. It is as ancient as humanity itself. It is part of the human experience and always has been.
@@tuckerplum8085 Of course, I was not implying that homosexuality is unnatural or wrong, simply that interpretations of homosexuality have changed throughout history.
😑
Would be nice if the homosexuals went back to that mindset of "it's the same as being straight. Do not treat me any different" but now it's all about labels, trends, personality, and most make it their ENTIRE identity to a point that every single activity, interest, hobby has to have a gay label and they expect non-homos or even bisexuals (yes even bis) to treat them like they are literal royalty. For some reason I've seen gays exclude bisexuals. I don't know why that's a thing now. Anyway, being gay for my generation and the gen after me is the new goth.
@@RozettaVyper first off, generalization will not win you any friends. Not all "gays" act the same way, like not all "straights" are intolerant troglodytes. The fact of the matter is that sexuality, like all aspects of human behavior, exists on a spectrum. Some people are attention whores, gay or straight. Some people are dramacidal, gay or straight. See what I'm getting at?
Just had a medieval history exam at university and came here to decompress.
Just learned of your channel from "Top 5's" and came over and subscribed immediately. Not only for the information that you provide, but also for the manner in which you deliver it. You make the points in your video very engaging and enjoyable to listen to even for an old man like myself. You're never to old to learn.
One's never too old to learn, indeed. I resolved that I'd spend my life learning rather than pretending to be learned and I'm only 27. If I could do something to extend my life expectancy into centuries, I would just do it to see what I can learn and how the world changes around me through said centuries... probably even given the downside of witnessing everyone I care about die of old age around me while I'm a let's say 364 years old youngster.
Who could care how old you are!! So what?!
This comment section is a right mess
What a time to be alive!
I wonder what things we consider normal today would be seen as horrifying to people a thousand years from now...
Hot cheetos, probably. And burning the sludge of rotted, buried corpses as fuel.
Not wearing veils.
@@KL-hr2kj Cremation has always been a thing tho
I mean…they kinda lived in a cesspool so they have no right to judge lol
TikTokers definitely
Por favor dono do canal, disponibiliza as legendas em *Português (BRASIL)*
As always - key drivers: power, money, punish others, religion as a scapegoat
THE TITLE IM CRYING
If I had a time machine I would love to give a copy of the Kamasutra to one of those church guys just to see them have a mental breakdown
Nah id show em the best gay bhole gape vid i know of
Even better show them a vid of Bukkake with a bowl XD
I am curious: what would happen if you then travel back to your time? 😂
The kamasutra idea is quite interesting
It's main purpose is not to promote it, but simply to demonstrate as a fact
Even the hindu temples depict sexual act on their outside walls as dialectism to go beyond - stepping into the innertiority
😂😂😂😂 kamas shastra explains explicitly about gays and lesbians
and yet they were totally cool with child marriage. -.- more things change the more things stay the same I guess.
You didn't get quite as far forward in history as to mention the "Acte to punish the vice of Buggerie." (aka Buggery Act) of 1533, which made buggery (which included sodomy and bestiality) a capital crime under civil law. Sodomy had previously been dealt with in England as an ecclesiastical offence, but Henry VIII was in the process of stripping the Church of its power and appropriating it to the Crown. It remained a capital offence until 1861, although the last executions in England were in 1835. Much of the former British Empire still has anti-sodomy laws in place, even in places where the original native culture was tolerant of homosexuality.
Just a friendly reminder, God loves ALL the children of creation!
I maintain that it is far easier to understand the medieval mindset as someone raised in a devout Christian denomination, because I think for most other folks, it's hard to grasp how _intensely_ and how _pervasively_ The Church™️ made itself known and how absolutely it was just a part of every act of everyday life for everyone. The only likeness would be something like how the internet or tv/film/entertainment media is a part of everyone's lives (at least in the west) but that still doesn't do it justice.
Saying that, as someone who has remained religious as an adult, this is how I view things.
Insofar as I can break it down, there is a great difference between in your own mind thinking homosexuality is wrong/disagreeing with the morality of homosexual relationships in light of what you believe God wants, and thus committing to not, in your own life, enter into a homosexual relationship for oneself (private/personal abstention) .... and _actively campaigning against_ those who you feel "choose" or live their lives contrary to how you wish to do so according to your own beliefs.
The former is, in my opinion, acceptable, and doesn't hurt anyone (except maybe yourself if ur deep in the closet, or if you push this stance inappropriately znd in a strict/absolutist/judgemental way onto others in your life, such as your children or close family/friends, instead of in a more accepting, or at the very least a _neutral_ way), whereas publically declaring others to be "sinful" and "wrong" and to go so far as to _punish people for being homosexual or trans under a law,_ I believe interferes with those people's agency, human right to personal choice and personal happiness, and the God-given right and ability to control their own destiny; the human right live their life in freedom and without fear of persecution, judgement, ostracism or social rejection.
It is my opinion (and has ALWAYS been my opinion) that if you say you want to live a "Christ-like life" that ABSOLUTELY MUST include the hard yards too, not just the easy stuff,, , ....
Which,,, ... ,, sweatie, ..,,,, this means _loving your [trans/gay/queer/lesbian/nonbinary/insert any "controversial" sexuality here^] neighbour,_ as they are, even though they live a life you don't support, you can still love them as a human. It's not just about picking and choosing whoever you feel you _want_ to love.
This is because dang, if God is indeed real you best bet he has a reason for saying what he has said, and I highly doubt he intended for his Good Baptist Christian (Twice Divorcee At 37 Bcs She Married At 18 Because She Was Already Pregnant And Smoking) Wifey named Karen (bless her soul) to _cherry pick the easiest people to love_ and just handily leave out all those gays and transgenders and ****ers and ****s and all those other slurs she probably uses because to her (cognitive dissonance is a doozy, huh) they are not _real_ folk deserving of love and kindness..... !! No. _That's not how it works._
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^except zoofiles and MAPs and all those abhorrent creepy mfs. Fek those guys. I respect them as humans but I struggle, lads, I struggle.... they are not under the LGBTQ+ banner, tho, i think we can all agree
Edit: grammar and spelling corrections
This comment deserves a lot more recognition
@@suzuya4717 ty (i might be biased tho)
Sadly- in the United States- as well as other countries where fascist ideation is taking place- the age old scapegoating of Queer people is back on the game board. We Stand Vigilant Against this smoldering evil agitation and fight against its collective lunacy. 🇺🇸🦖☄️
Japan is secular and yet they are homophobic.
I'd like to add that in the whole bible there aren't as many statements against homosexuallity as most people think.
The only two times where homosexuality is mentioned as a sin is in leviticus (and just about man), amidst many other laws that most christians don't follow as either consider them to be about higene and specific for that time, or that they are no longer in place since the new covenant with Christ. (like koshed foods or using fringes in the borders of clothes etc.)
And in some letters of Paul who wrote about topics, most of the time giving his personal opinion in matters, opinions that also a lot of christian denominations dont follow, such as celibacy etc.
Nowadays most schollars agree that in the case of Sodom and of the book of judges, the sin was rape, and in the bible it's shown as expecially bad as it is against someone's guests. In both cases mobs gather to demand to have sex (rape) with someone's guests, and that's the sin.
Also, another aspect to point out is that the concept we have of homosexuality is recent, and in those times it didn't exist. Different aspects of what we consider homosexuality could have been see with diferent eyes.
Interesting, i read that Chatars even thought sex within marriage was an evil act 🤔
Yeah I read they were even more puritan than the Church itself
Please make videos of what life was like for Jewish people in medieval period.
Talmud made it hell to live in Jewish rules in medieval times.
God. They had it so terrible! They got blamed for literally everything!
Great idea!
The "church" has so much to answer for, for so many reasons
Good vid!
There is a great book called “Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe” by John Boswell. It’s a must read on this subject.
It's very dated now sadly, and some of the concepts it describes have since been either debunked, or our understanding increased ie differentiating between adelphopoiesis and same-sex marriages as we know them today. It's definitely an interesting read for anyone interested, so long as that is kept in mind
Lesbians: making the earth shake since 666AD
From a lot of these guys I think it’s a massive case of ‘methinks the lady doth protest too much’. Like why are you thinking about gay sex so much huh?
Or maybe they just had a totally different culture and mindset, and you're a lemming? Could be that too.
@@barbieblues7639 could also be that I was joking on the internet, craaazzzzy idea
Mary Whitehouse and Lord Longford spring to mind.
I'll be sure to visit Ca-style on my next trip to Spain. Sounds like an interesting place.
Be sure to take your buddy Jaquesss with you
This give goin medieval on that ass a whole new meaning! 🤣
Always amusing to see the ratio of like and dislike for every video trying to talk about homosexuality in the past in a objective, Historical fact driven view. Looks like some people can't handle the idea homosexuality is as old as sexuality itself.
You can see dislikes?
@@lhoman8426 Yep with the "Return RUclips Dislike" extension.
@@wai828 ah cool, thanks
Fact-driven to a point. I'd like to know where the existence of "trans" people were recorded or referenced in history.
@@nocount1 I was talking about homosexuality, not transgenders. Feel free to do some research if you're curious about them. I looked a bit and it seems there a lot of interesting things about that. :)
The biggest thing I learned from this video was that if you pissed off the Catholics back then, they were very likely to hit you with the ole “I dunno man, that’s kinda gay”
literally every euroamerican today and they all descend from the same gay motherland. isnt it ironic : P
"Ah yes my son, which original sin has you committed today", "Wait you murdered your entire family so you could have your families estate - oooh a bag of money, I'm sure you repented right?"
Anyone who requested that a door be closed, would be burned at the stake...
It was quite informative but terribly nausea inducing. All those poor people tortured and murdered because they only wanted to express Love.
Being gay isn't about love idiot, learn the difference between love and lust.
Especially that we know that they are born that way. Just like a straight man can’t change, gay people can’t change either. The radical right wing still reject this fact today.
The thumbnail is so funny 😂
It isn't meant to be. The illustration of two men tenderly embracing comes from an illuminated bible and iirc depicts the young David and the royal Prince Johnathan coming together for a passionate kiss.
@@edwardmiessner6502 What's the story with those two, it says that David's love for Jonathan was greater than his love for women?
It always makes me laugh when hardcore heteros talk about how "masculine" people like the Greeks and Spartans were. Do they just not get it??? 😂😂😂😂
Funny that the people spouting disgust at sex are the ones clearly thinking about it the most 👀
Had a nun civics teacher who tied just about every class to sex somehow, including a memorable one about whether death row inmates should be able to preserve their sperm.
@@docstockandbarrel that's both sad and hilarious.
@@leonieromanes7265 indeed. Superintendent was a priest. Embezzled a bunch of money and ran off with his girlfriend.
@@docstockandbarrel generally the most crooked people are those who claim to have the hot line to God.
@@leonieromanes7265 often the case, unfortunately
Like Christopher Hitchens said- "Religion poisons everything!"
Really, nothing poisons like religion.
Hey mate. For future reference. As a non American “clerk” is pronounced “clark” rhyming with “lark”. Great video.
and derby as darby, we know. but we prefer trying to say words as they are spelled whenever possible. We make it easier for the many foreigners trying to learn our crazy language.
YOU'RE JUDGING AN ENGLISH GUYS ENGLISH LOL
7:45 I wonder if that has anything. To do with Friday the 13th being considered bad luck now.
So there was an entire religious order that was very modern? That's amazing!
Plato also said "In his ideal city, he says in his last, posthumously published work known as The Laws, homosexual sex will be treated the same way as incest. It is something contrary to nature, he insists, calling it "utterly unholy, odious-to-the-gods and ugliest of ugly things" - Why did you leave that part out?
You know very well why that part was left out. This whole channel is nothing but cherrypicking subjective propaganda.
The fact that humans have been fucking same sex humans since humans became human is proof that homosexuality is most certainly NOT against nature.
@@m0tv1nd can you explain pls
Because it's for medieval history. Not ancient.
He talks about Plato early on in the video. What type of degenerate are you?@@RlingCap-uk6rk
I’m curious about where you’re from. Your pronunciation of many words sounds so different from mine.
The most striking was when you pronounced the b in debt. For me, “Debt” never has a b sound in it. Aquineas sounds like akwinas. Theologian sounds like Theo-lojan.
Cool vid.
Why does anyone care who anyone else sleeps with?...it is baffling to me! I am hetero and in my fifties and always hoped I'd be blessed with a gay child or niece or nephew and I love all my cishets more than anything I just thought I'd have been a good parent or aunt to a child who was born not hetero. So many have to struggle with the people who should love them unconditionally. It just shouldn't matter. People are people. No one should care about their love/sex lives. We shouldn't be judged at all but character should be the true measure if there is to be one. I'm only one person and this is my opinion only. It would be a better and kinder world.
Lol, that's a lie.
This comment warms my heart as a bisexual :D
It would improve your presentations if you pronounced names correctly. I suppose it’s a lack of what used to be called a classical education.
@@bradpaul8576 what?
@@salamilidaintgonfit7576 thank you I appreciate your kindness! And your reply to Paul....I too have to say what? Maybe he doesn't get cishets which is cisgender heterosexual....otherwise I'm not sure what he could tell I pronounced wrong! Lol! Oh well, thank you for being you!
I remember watching a documentary on the templars and the Fruday 13th massacre. It had those typixal, low budget acting scenes of fully-clad knights "kissing" by the alter lol
Men being men. That’s just how men are men.
04:08 That's Pope Leo the Great from 5th century, not Leo IX from the 11th century.
It's most shameful that the persecution of gay men has been stemmed from "Christianity". Jesus never taught that.
Jesus’s teaching doesn’t mean shit, he’s dead
@@mylerwilson4879 😄
Seriously?
@@mikuspalmis
1)What’s said in the bible is not provable
2)A lot of what is said is not really not actually about Jesus, it’s more of a construction from the gospels to make you fall into their propaganda
@@mylerwilson4879 Well your first reply is gone so there's no context now since I don't remember what you said and it definitely doesn't have to do with your reply now since I tend to agree with that.
Who the fuck told the Church we could control the weather?! Now we have to make a 2nd arc.
It’s all over when we learn how to weaponize our natural disaster powers
From memory there was a period of time that masturbation (only men, women had no sexual desire at all, and they could totally hold hands, kiss their girl friends and sleep in the same bed and it was totes cos they were just "dear friends") was thought to ruin a man's fertility forever. Later on, however, many Puritan sects thought that masturbation should be encouraged as it kept people celebate because instead of having sex with each other, they were "releasing the tension", as it were. There's also that enduring myth (I hope it's a myth ☹️) that nannies would masturbate their young male charges to make them go to sleep which is frankly kind of absolutely disturbing if true.
I do know that the dutch government got a lot of flack for encouraging young people to masturbate by switching out the ol' "apple a day keeps the doctor away" with something less SFW... a tad excessive, in my opinion, but it is nonetheless curious to see how varying attitudes around the date with the rosy-fingered palm are to this day, and how some people must be immortal, because they've never left the middle ages!
I don't think young men need any encouragement to masturbate.
@@RadioJonophone 99.9% of all boys do it, and the rest tell lies. Parents used to heap so much guilt on their children for two things - sex and religion.
It's absolutely true that it helps to ensure a quick sleep. My fave " sleeping pill" - it really works from personal usage.
@@danMdan But surely by the time it works as a sedative, you no longer have a nanny. It has been suggested that masturbation is nature's way of increasing fertility by ensuring that every ejaculation is fresh.
@@peterc.1618 In the modern 2023 world yes is the answer, but in the Victorian era rich families kept Nannies on for years (as a sort of substitute parent), and boys reached maturity much later than now. Two children were produced, an heir and a spare, for the family money and house. Parents saddled their children with all sorts of guilt in them days. Look up the poem which starts - "They f**k you up your mum and dad, they don't mean to but they do ........." by (I think) Phillip Larkin.
The key is that they didn't conceptualize "homosexuality", I don't think this was clear enough in the video.
For most of the time the actual crime was acting against the "natural/divine" order of men and women having their own roles and men being the "master" and the women being the submissive one. Two men having sex broke this "divine order" because the other man was made into a woman / took the woman's role. And women were the cause of original sin and sub human and soulless. The man was holy and the image of God.
Two women having sex _was_ considered wrong. But you see, *they didn't believe two women could have sex,* what ever it was they did wasn't sex, because there was no penis involved (I mean there are still people who think like this) ...Unless a *dildo* was used. Then a woman was taking the role of a man which was blasphemous, because you know - sub human vs. divine masculinity etc.
This was patriarchy at it's absolute pinnacle, I would say.
So women had it easier what comes to this. Atleast sort of.
Christianity wasn't originally so misogynistic (on the contrary really, wealthy women patrons were essential to christianity's survival and growth in the first centuries, they infact also acted basically in the role of priests), but by the middle ages it had turned sour like that. There's bunch of reasons for that, but one reason is that the earlier pagan cultures had often powerful female spiritual leaders, and the beliefs/religions had many female deities. It was easier to crush the previous religious systems by attacking womanhood. It wasn't all sunshine and roses in the earlier cultures, but in many women and men were seen as quite equal.
But we're talking of thousands and hundreds of years and lots of different peoples, even in just the middle ages, so there has always been fluctuation in how homosexuality and gender equality were seen.
There are records that show that at some point the orthodox church recognized samesex partnerships.
There was an absolutely unbelievable find in Finland recently. They found something like a 1000 years old remains of an intersex person that had had physical features of both sexes. They had worn female attire but had obviously been a highly revered member, probably of leader status, in their community. I think they had female clothing as I said, but some objects that were usually owned by men. Not quite sure about that.
Wow, surprisingly insightful comment to find here. Thank you :D
The intro is not propaganda…. People literally take things WAY WAAAYYY outta proportion…. He is just simply reminding people that BACK in the day being gay was a death sentence and today (in most of the world) it is accepted. However even in the Middle East Russia and even in the south of the US people are still linched at the thought of it… smarten up shut up and watch the video.
South of the US? like literally Texas? Riiight... so much for being "smarten up". You're just one those people who happily get trapped in your own circle bubble. Seeing through the lens of every social media.
@@muai09 I actually live in a progressive state lmao. And I actually hate social media so. Sit down
@@TRUEDJRI 👍👍, sit down.
@@muai09 glad you listened
I'm gay, in my 50's, and live in the "South US" as it happens. I've NEVER heard of ANYONE being lynched for being gay. Ever. So much for these "progressives" actually being truly informed before cringe posting.
I am happy to see you have taken the time to school these people about all that was created.
Sodom and Gomorrah was the time when homosexuality was punished and "FORGIVEN"
No one was to continue to punish them. NO FRICKEN ONE
Sodom Gomorrah isn't even about punishing homosexuality. At best, it is about punishing rape and abuse of foreigners. The Bible speaks about Sodom and Gomorrah multiple times, see Ezekiel, and homosexuality is never its issue. It talks about abusing the poor and vulnerable more often.
The fact that modern people read the story and immediately use it to mistreat gay people, repeating the actual sin of Sodom and Gomorrah by abusing the vulnerable, says a lot.
Officially done with this channel. “What was normal was determined by the church“? You’ve got to be kidding me
I wonder if that is why friday 13th has such a bad reputation.
I'm so happy hostile attitudes towards non-straight people have started to decrease gradually. 🙏
Thank you for illuminating some of the ugliest chapters of the human story. I am constantly amazed at the number of contemporary people who ignore history, embrace long-discredited mythologies and propound barbaric judgments over what is essential, natural human behavior.
Natural human behavior isn't putting it up the pooper. That's disfunctional and anti-productive.
Well you see it's delusional people. Both homosexual men, women, and cultists. Homosexuals are clouded by the delusions that they want their own gender as a sex partner, so they don't expand the population, so I can understand why they wouldn't want people to be homosexual back in the medieval days or so and so. Then there's the church, I don't know why it's still here. Either way I don't think I would still support the LGBTQ because they only dent the population and a lot of wasted potential.🥲
So humanity has not learned much from history.
Where does that plato quote come from? I can find no source for it on google.
I'm gay but nothing to do with lgbwhatever
@@doanwurrah4534 Most of them have bad habits and are not good long term partners.
Being gay is that you are part of the community, this comment makes no sense
Bad for you. Lgbtq+ is a liberation movement, and accepts every orientation and gender identity.
@@vinvyl957 Internalized homophobia is a hell of a thing