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"History can never be used to justify faith": Romila Thapar
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2019
- A panel of speakers that included Romila Thapar, Kunal Chakrabarti, Zoya Hasan, and Valay Singh talked about the history of Ayodhya and more at the book launch of 'Ayodhya: City of Faith, City of Discord' in New Delhi.
In this video, Veteran historian Romila Thapar talks about the necessity of maintaining a distinction between history and belief and congratulated Singh on separating the historical narrative from the narrative that emerges out of faith. Talking about Ram, she says, "Speaking as a historian, there is no cross-evidence for the historicity of the person of Ram." She also talks about how communities of all kinds have appropriated Valmiki's Ramayana and given it a distinctive identity: "The worshipper of Ram can believe whichever of these many versions of Ram he or she chooses to because this is a matter of faith and belief. It doesn't impinge on historicity or history."
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OMG. Macaulay and King Charles would be proud of making such a perfect Brown Sahib !!!!
Ram is Way older than Guautam Budha Chronologically. BS Romila Thapar Purports is Astounding.
Exactly.. And according to her, yudhisthir (born ages and yugs before) was influenced by king ashoka.... 😂😂😂😂
That's Romila Thapper 's ignorance and no one dared to confront here in JNU because she and her family were very close to Brits and Nehru.
Ideology and agendas can never be used to belittle and suppress a thousands of years old continuously living faith.
Fakeness is easy to Believe. Reality needs lost of effort.
@@shafirahamanyeah just like paedophile, rapist, nymphomaniac prophet Mohammed's kafirophobic, bloodlust ideology.
@@shafirahamanpropergating your faith by violence itself pure how much true your faith is 😂😂😂😂😂
what is reality the destruction of temple of solomon by a special group or the conversion of the church of Constantinople to a mosque by the same group or the destruction Ayodhya kashi mathura or the blasting of buddha of Bamiyan, thapar is the first historian which says archeological proof doesn't matter. or who doesn't know the sanskrit but became an ancient indian scholar. wake up to reality my friend the temple is after the court verdict based on a ASI report. so you are right reality takes effort it took us 500 years.@@shafirahaman
Adam , the frist man , 90 ft tall , roaming on earth eight thousand years ago.God created Eve (Hawa) , from Adam's rib .Adam alive thousand years.
All Abrahamic religion based on this story.
Now why there is millions of charch, masjid?
Distorian par excellence! Why do we still tolerate such distorted storytellers who keep making up facts to suit their narratives is beyond me.
Tu research karna chutiyaa
I heard dr.meenakshi and I thought I should hear both cases I'm more convinced with dr.meenakshi bcoz according to what Romila believes it's a story which has been added over years fine but we should respect faith and belief and people have a right to worship and with the archeological survey they found that previously a temple existed over there and it's over . Now challenging the existence of Ram or ravan or some other person is a historical thing and she need to find how this ram character came in and when hinduism started. Stopping someone from worshipping just because she just believe a person named ram existed is kinda unfair.
The is no question of stopping anyone from worshipping any deity or god. Why should there be?
I believe too Meenakshi jain.
she said explicitly in another video that she's not against the faith, we can't dispute that bz it's people who belief in it(ram) but claiming that as Ram's birth place is an issue which is used to make divide between hindu and muslim
Hahahaha...her logic is same as Islam's logic... totally nonsense
@Bot 27 Check Dr Rajiv on romila thapar, there is always two faces of a coin, one you saw, next see Dr Rajiv. Thank you.
@Bot 27 commie shitbot spotted
@@kushagrak960 i can't find it any link please??
@Vasanth commie asshole spotted
@Vasanth commie asshole spotted
The Britishers in collaboration with the Congress and the Communists created such an ecosystem wherein anyone who could speak english fluently would earn the tag of eminent in any field may it be History, Economics, Administration, Diplomacy, Journalism, Art. By that logic if Romilla Thapar is an eminent historian, then Sunny Leone is a legendary actress.
Kindly do these type of videos for religion of peace too.
Criticisms of every religion, culture and ideology exists. But hatred of human beings is homicidal.
Well, you can't distract criticism of your beliefs by using whataboutery against other religions or changing the topic. Stick to the discourse and face it with genuine arguments.
@allah allah not only idol worshippers but literally any person that is not muslim.
@allah allah obviously automatically offers and freebies come your way when you behave like this
@allah allah calm down bro. Quran does teach hatred against non muslim, so does manusmriti, vedas and puranas against shudras, mlechhas and atheists. Also, many historians do not believe that adam, moses and abraham existed, so clearly they are against christianity and islam too.
@@shalinitiwariscorner5210 Genuine arguments? Please ask Romila Thaper to have a dialoge with Meenakshi Jain or Rajiv Malhotra.
She makes most logical arguments
It’s bound to rile and annoy most sanghis coz if they lack one thing in their life is logic and patience to listen and consider an alternative view which may not be aligned to theirs.
Yes she made a great speech about Yudhisthira being inspired by Ashoka.... lol.... no wonder Leftist illiterates and piddis of the highest order treat her like some enigma... If this lie uttered by her is logic... then u might well say u are The prophet who split the moon into two. The problem with bigots who starts name calling any and sundry is that they are so drenched in illogic and hatred of anything non colonial or non leftist that they are unable to digest the truth...And that Apex court already has thrown her logic into the dustbin... who dont u search that bin and worship those pieces ... might be u will get salvation
She is one who told that i went to England to learn about Indian culture she was the one who despite of getting thousands of asi finding her gang supreme court "without reading the asi we gave your report"
@@punisherwarlord there is proof of Ashoka but not if yudhisthira
@@punisherwarlord mahabharata was not written at single point in time. It has been revised continuously over time. It is possible that the part where Yudhisthir questions his right to rule was written after ashoka's rule.
Sir, your ignorance prevents you from realizing that every word you just said can be applied to you as well. This is a two way street. Anyhow its pointless talking to people who think they already know everything because they were spoonfed by colonialists like romila thapar by their NCERT bullshit.
If Romila Thapar is a historian, then I am god.
You need some amount of brain in cranial cavity to understand her lecture.
You are a loafer
If you are god..I'm God..gods are obedient to God
God ka pata nahi, lodu zaroor ho tum
Romila Thapar is historian and you are chutiya.
Thapar madam,Why I would need to know Ramayan from the perspective of Buddhist, Jain, Japanese, Malaysian,Mapila Muslim etc etc.....it's our faith and our culture you can only comment on it . You talk about narratives and stories only. You are the most famous so called historian of India what are the sources of your yarns. I am no historian but why were you so afraid of an open debate with Mr Sitaram Goel on this very topic ?
She was even called to the court during the final hearings of the Ram Mandir case for their expert opinion. But they never went. Listen to J Sai Deepak, he delves into the incident deeper. These people are done for. Their days are numbered.
Is Ramayana older than Mahabharata?
Some lobbies in India think that being able to speak fluent english means you can question the 'historicity of rama'. Good luck to them.
didn't even show up to SC to present her "facts" lol
Congress promoted average academicians and historians and they remained loyal. RT is one such example.
This lady has done a great damage to Indian history. calling her historian is wrong. She had been Darbari historian. Even knowledge of sanskrit is lacking. No Indian history without it
Valmiki Ramayan was written between 400 BCE-400 CE (3:30). . . and "has multiple and differing versions over regions and over time" (6:30). . . also Buddhist and Jain versions of the Ramayana (12:00). . . as well as a version (Mapila) from Kerala with the context of an Islamic background (18:40) . .. the Ramayana represents "a shared cultural idiom" (22:22)
I had heard the opponents of Left Historians such as Ms. Romila Thapar, diss her scholarship because of the extreme prejudice that cloaks it. Had never heard her speak before and thought let me listen to her, and from just her opening remarks, I understand why they say so.
I could not believe my ears when she says: "The accepted opinion of the 'more serious scholars' (note her emphasis) is that the Valmiki Ramayan was written between 400 BCE and 400 CE- a period of 800 years," whereby she tries to completely make Rama and his story to be some fanciful fable, written by a bunch of individuals. How do these people explain that people around the time of Lord Mahavira and Buddha knew of Rama?
All attempt of these Left historians and the Communist Parties of India to show that Hindus are blindly following something that's derived from Buddhist practises. They have a bunch of Mohammadeans supporting the, because it serves their Islamic cause, which is the same as that of the Left and the Christians- divide Hindu society, weaken them and then move in for the kill.
Please refute the arguments put by Dr. Meenakshi Jain where she has openly shown that Romila Thapar and the other historians from the Indian Left hagiography sent their "students" as experts in the recent Ayodhya Case before the SC and exposed their shallow knowledge and understanding of anything remotely connected with Lord Rama. Any other 'more serious scholars', Ms Thapar, apart from you and the other high priests of your clergy?
Pertinent analysis
She is a distorian not historian
Yes. Distortionate she is!?
She is a historian and I respect that to the core.
Science, history and religion and 3 different things.
Science believes that humans are evolved from apes, Muslims, Jews and Christians believes in Adam and eve.
This does not exist in Hinduism.
Every person believes in something according to their believes, evidence, knowledge and level of understanding.
Person who experienced paranormal activities believes in Ghost other don't.
She is talking as a historian and disrespecting her because she doesnot fit into out mindset or religious believe is absurd.
There are many people who believe in atheistism/agnostics etc.
So I respect all.. If uh believe in religion good if not then also goodm
Adam , the frist man , 90 ft tall , roaming on earth eight thousand years ago.God created Eve (Hawa) , from Adam's rib .Adam alive thousand years.
All Abrahamic religion based on this story.
Now why there is millions of charch, masjid?
The quality of psuedo-raam bhakts can be gauged from their comments!
Thanks maam❤ history rely upon evidence not on faith. People r making fun of her as if they r great researchers of history. Historians cross-check their facts. No-one gets a job by publishing distorted facts. Romila has got life time achievement award in humanity.❤
Komsa maal fook ke yeh message type kara tha?
@@aksshaysharma96 konsa maal fuk ke tumne reply back Kiya?
@@aksshaysharma96 cpi ka.
@@aksshaysharma96maal fukne ki jarurat nhi
@@nationalist11tumne bjp ka maal fuka hai??
You cannot convince people like R. S. Sharma, Romila Thapar, Irfan Habib, D. D. Kosambi, D. N. Jha, Suraj Bhan etc. All i can do is to tear, reap them apart with your superior intellect and razor sharp argument.
Then please do that..
Most of the self proclaimed historians have never visited to actual historical sites. The actual historical sites say something and Romila Thapar wrote something. 🤣🤣🤣 LoL.
She was never a self proclaimed historian. You probably heard her name very recently. Any student of history in the last four decades will swear by her momentous work in history.... The problem is, making statements earlier required a person to be an authority on some matter on which one may give a talk. In the social media era every Tom. Sick and Harry who would not qualify to be a student in a premier university, is giving speech or sometimes sermons.
@@anandarup1 We live in a post-truth country where sadly the Hindutva view of history is promulgating. People would rather listen to random youtubers spouting superficial nonsense rather than professionals who are heralded by the academia. I fear for what will happen to us as a nation.
@@anandarup1 Well sir rather than lecturing us you yourself should have studied his books and try to understand the fact that all her works are mere assumptions but not evidence based approach.
@@motorprotein1797 Well you should fear about the status of your logic and the stupid basis you utilize to come to the conclusion that the nation is in danger.
Till date this academically backed lady had never ever taken an evidence based approach rather she has been utilizing her thoughts to make the course of history. You should stop blindly following the academia and start understanding things through facts and evidences
@@shriyashsaxena5559 u r a frustatrated person. You are not a student of history. I have no intention to lecture u. It will bounce back, as u have no training in history
But she and her colleagues like Irfan Habib...members of the Darbari Historians club...they re wrote history...to create a new faith. What they did to history...can never be forgiven. Neither were they true...nor were they true to their vocation.
there is truth everyone knows Mohd Habib for Romilas cabal plagiarized the research and hard work of Sir Jadunath sarkar and then shamelessly twisted it to please leftists in power and Nehru and started the detoriation of truth in Indian history
What is true? You or right wing scholar never given proof against it.... Just spreading false propaganda
Corrupt and intellectually bankrupt Historian Club would be more appropriate for people like Romila Thapper and Irfan Habib.
I would not even spit on her grave
She gets money from London to teach all this nonsense
You get money from a loafer to write this comment
😂
What her thoughts on Jews and Muslims? Muslims give reference of Quran....
If you are historian thn I am allah
History can't be misused to justify a particular ideological position
But can history be used to distort perception and develop false narrative, as done by her?
Wow you might not adhere to what she says or might Condemn her !!! but she does make a point !!! a great point indeed . she puts you at thought. she has logic and does not loose talk like other such as Mr Malhotra
Parigter has shown that the kings ayodyha vidheha and Vaisala are of dravidian origin he has also shown that the early hymns of the veda were composed in a proto dravidian language
Wait!! Did I hear her say that it's not REVEALED txt but written by human!! 🤣🤣.. I stopped watching the video right there..
....yes and a book compiled 200 years after the so called revelations is authentic...
Hmmm.....
What is it that drives these people ?
I have always heard that history is written by the winner. However, post independence , Indian history has been mysteriously written by losers - aish Romila Thapar & Company
What an excellent presentation. It is so simple and rational that History can just be used for reassuring a faith with which it cannot have anything to with each other. Still unfortunately many need a talk and a book on it.
Hilarious!!
She nevr come to debate as guys like meenakshi jain and vikram will rip her
No Matter how much you so called Eminent Historians try Truth will prevail
She is just a history teacher not an Archaeologist. She makes her own conviction without taking into facts.
Very interesting perspective of the Epics from a study of the various texts.I didn't realise the Indian and Malaysian Ramayana were different.
She is deceiving students....
So what it's her birthright
Typical commentary , seeking to obfuscate and delude , typical Romila rant, Faith evolves over decades and centuries , and it’s historical significant is very relevant to followers of faith.
Valmiki doesn't claim it is revealed to him by god.
So it was originally only a poem and later it was appropriated by "centrally administered hindu religion"
I dare anyone defend her for not clouding her judgment based on semitic religion and imposing it on hinduism.
@Human Being explain to me the reason you think i applied to get that segregation.
And then explain to me why that is wrong.
@Human Being the term semitic and its origin is not the central issue i was addressing. I admit i could be wrong in using the terminology.
Let me correct it by replacing it with monotheistic religions namely Muslim Christian and Jews.
I used the term to loosely refer to these three. I am sure its not absolutely wrong as its used synonymously. It might not be absolutely correct. But then again, take the loose point i was trying to make.
Clouding the judgement on hinduism by applying a similar lense you apply for abrahamic/semitic/monotheistic religions.
Correct me where i am wrong. But always tell me why i am wrong.
@Human Being also. Please give some example of non centrally administered semitic religions.
Well, excluding those who would be considered pagans though.
@Human Being i am ready to debate why that binary holds.
There is a clear distinction between semitic religions and hinduism, one god vs many gods for example.
Its a clear binary distinction. I am ready to present my case, and i am already doing that.
Please come up with an argument. Go watch this channel is not an argument. Present a strong argument from that video and lets talk. Okay?
@Human Being i think you've proved my point about ram through the pervasive stories of shiva.
The point is not about christianity or muslims. The point was to highlight their similarities and compare that to hinduism.
And in that context, putting them in the same basket is not wrong.
The point i am making is deeper than just the fictious central authority of hinduism which went onto convert tribals into hinduism just like romila thapar claims it was.
I take your point too. Its wrong to put islam and christinaity into the same basket, when youre discussing about them. True.
I take that point.
But they are very much similar when certain qualities are considered and compared with hinduism or easter thoughts.
East/west is the rough binary i am making.
What a liar this lady Romila Thakur is. Really shameful
History cannot be used to justify faith but it's the faith of millions which needs to be honoured and they dont care history either
She is a historian
not a spiritual master. She was not asked about the existence of God, or the existence of Sri Ram.
She was asked about the existence of a Ram Temple, a physical structure that existed & was demolished to build a Masjid !
She was asked about the FAITH and commitment of the PEOPLE of Ayodhya & restof India, towards the Ram Mandir - not about HER FAITH or lack of it !
PROSECUTE her for PERJURY !
Truth is bitter.
In absolute awe of her🍁♥️
Ge
Naturally, as she white washed the barbarism of your Desert cult.
@@jadabeswarbhattacharjee3537 My religious identity needs no conclusive remarks from "people of nowhere"
@@syedsaimashowkat5302 Then stay in isolation of Desert.
@@syedsaimashowkat5302 People of Nowhere huh??? you are saying this??? the same cult which says bringing in CAA will render muslims as people of nowhere... so Maam CAA has come.... which makes u a person of Nowhere
No doubt great historian....
She is an Honest Historian of our country.
I love your historiography and learned how to write one! Love you.
Mulli
Fakkad
Are u too going to write false history?
She doesnt know sanskrit pali..etc..why she is even a indian historian. A western parrrot
So a faith of 2500 years old king is history ?
Lady......how can the evidence of Shri Rama still be intact? Such an ancient time.
Has she or would she do such an elaborate explanation or put together facts on Mohammad and Koran, as she did for Valmiki, Ram and Ramayana 😅
Kashi Mathura next.
😂old charming witch
😂😂😂
Mapilla version 🤪
So people have been appropriating this Sanatana Dharmic texts
Great historian
Very informative. I quote 108 Ramayanas.
Did she atleast read Full text of Valmiki Ramayan .Mahabharath ,and upanishads .I doubt .
Forget about 4 Vedas which these type of people coukdnt understand .
To write Maha Bharths history above should be needed thoroughly.
All what we seeing are paid and influential ,monetary mind talks nd write for some hidden agenda .
She was given $ Millions as prize money for this durty work in US. This info is on Google and Wikipedia.@SunilKumar-sl2bu
Well explained and insightful as always. As a student of history I found this video very useful.
She presents her narrative sensibly, unlike rajiv malhotra
Yes, talk in polished English like her relatives who grace TV channels do, and distort facts as suited to your communist ideology and then get wah-wahi for talking "sensibly". Red-washing history, is all she and her ideologue, Irfan Habib have been doing all these decades. The Left-inclined group in the Congress after Independence knew that cultivating a new crop of Leftists would mean they would have to 'catch-them-young.' They ensured they were part of the education ministries, departments, institutions everywhere and their insidious work has paid off - Indians themselves doubt their history. Glorified one a s "Father" and another as a "Chicha", to ensure their supporters in the Congress did not meddle in their work.
Mandi toh bangaya.
Priya bhakt, mandi = market. Mandir = temple. Waise...mandi hi ban gaya hai desh..
What a speech!
Mulla
@manu manu Be Indian first then Hindu and Muslim- by the time that an individual (or group ) turns only the follower of a particular religion it opens the gate to intolerance, hate and terrorism (group or state). Pakistan and Taliban are the best examples. India is a great nation and Indians are lovely people do not become Pakistan or Pakistanis. Being an Indian in itself is a great privilege. This is a piece of advice from your Afghan/Pathan brother. The Indian philosophy is far superior to instructions written in the book of Manu.
@@8Mrsaid sharia law is degenerate dont compare it with anything
@@8Mrsaid Book of Manu says where women are respected there is paradise... Where as your Jihadi book from 1400 year ago says Women are like Tilt to be abused anyway by a Man.... and i rest my case
Rectum of India…
She is so awesome!!!
She is one of the best...please read The History of India. Excellent, every Indian should read it, I don't care whether Muslim or Hindu or Christian...
Check Dr Rajiv on romila thapar, there is always two faces of a coin, one you saw, next see Dr Rajiv. Thank you.
am py one does not need to learn sanskrit to do that !!
@am py sanskrit is not the only ancient Indian language
@am py Lol...you made me laugh, man. :D
Kudos to your knowledge and though wisdom, Prof. Romila Thapar. Kudos and salutes!
When the haters will start learning the truth from perception created by their AKA. I am afraid- it is going to be late...very late.
The entire world's historians and scholars noticed the manipulation happening as you presented.
Ohh gyani
only you are the real truth speaker n. And everybody is just stupid
@@SHARMA-rc2fq Sharme, everyone is not stupid but RULED by intellectually bankrupt: Enjoy Acche DIn!
Adam , the frist man , 90 ft tall , roaming on earth eight thousand years ago.God created Eve (Hawa) , from Adam's rib .Adam alive thousand years.
All Abrahamic religion based on this story.
Now why there is millions of charch, masjid?
Buddha has a monument on home. There is no monument for Ram
Anti national historian Congressi pithu.
Kan ke niche bajaunga buriya....
There should be a way to define fake historians one def is here
This Romila studied what subjects in which college/university of India and if not studied
in India then what authority she has on Indian
history,in fact what she talk about the Indian
history is for away from truth.
Rohila is a pride of india.
You just misspelt *disgrace with pride!!
@@keshavthakur8395 shut up thakur idiot
Hard to digest for a common andhbhakat 😂
Where was your knowledge in SC?
Romola Thapar is a communist leader not at all a historian ...No base of her tought...
put her in jail
These north in nomads from steppe took from Buddhist moral stories to them to their own . trying to authorize foreign land and wealth with their knowledge.these uncivilized barbarian nomads don't worshipped any Indian Tamil gods.they don't have any major God .they worshipped sun,moon,night(nish)fire,ragu,vaju(air)and did yagna.fire ritual's by these hunting and gathers.
But, Sinauli is Saying They also used to Worship Shiva. And, Shiva is a Tamil God. So, How Can There Will be difference.
Wait, Mr.VelMurugan Ancient Ramyana and Vedas are Written in 4000-5000 years ago and Buddha exists in 300 B.C. Which is 2300 years ago. How can they took from Buddist Morals . I mean What Weed Do you take Daily Shit Head!!!
@@rahulrajss723 lied bop RSS cell.
@@rahulrajss723 when they started worshiping Shiva. They don't worshiping Shiva in Vedas.and they are nickering worshiping Shiva and linga clearly in rigveda.soma is not Shiva that is their toxicated alcohol.those Shiva temple and shivaism is belong to the native Tamil origin .the vedic bramins slowly merging shivaids after Sankara he himself met acetic sadhus the real name shidas. Build mutt in kanjipuram traveling all over India, fake promotion if shivaism. But actually he himself smartha once earlier he mocked. Dravidian Sisu to thrugna sambanthar one of the first Aryan smartha bramin converted Tamil shivism and became Murthy nayanar means saint. Still kanjipuram mutt not allowed in major shivaids temples. They still follow Jagna that anti shivaids rituals and fire worshipping smartha.
Yeah go to the nearest DMK office to collect your free TV, a saree and some utensils for writing this.
Naniji, aap ghar baitho, ho gaya aapka! Distorian!
Ramayana copied from Buddhist Jataka "Dasaratha Jataka"
Lol... Have you read any of religious books !!
@@keshavthakur8395 yes I can teach you free if you wanna be my student
@@userXsurl First, you need some basic knowledge about history !!
@@keshavthakur8395 the basic is Ramayana/Mahabharata didn’t mentioned in History..Know why?? Coz they were fairy tales..But Buddha was mentioned in history...That's the basic kiddo..
@@userXsurl Lol you even know the timeline of both ?? Ramayana and Mahabharat happened many years ago buddha .. How can you find palaces or architectural work of that time ... Only evidence is literary evidence and just like buddhist texts have written about lord buddha ramayana and mahabharat were written on life of lord rama & Krishna !! And, people even before buddha's age knew about lord rama .Get out of propagandist ideology and open your brain first kiddo
This lady is so pure❤
Gyan Dene ko kaun bola apko aunty?
History ka to kachda kar dia, ab Gyan bhi pelogi?
23:25 min of complete fuckin nonsense
Fir file kar do
she is the biggest fraud
Ms Romilla Thapar is not logical.
budhiya
Khandrat Batatey Hain Imarat Azeem Thee ,Nehru had eye for such people.
Abe history matlab assumptions hota hai.
Itihas ki mata ..
Lal salam
If you wouldn't born in this land who were mother of history of Indian
You saved this country to prove this country is made by British....and mogal...rest all so called hindu came from Mongolia
She has a colonial mindet
Romila thapar is act like witch
Iske 10 khasam honge pakka is
Thapar madam,Why I would need to know Ramayan from the perspective of Buddhist, Jain, Japanese, Malaysian,Mapila Muslim etc etc.....it's our faith and our culture you can only comment on it . You talk about narratives and stories only. You are the most famous so called historian of India what are the sources of your yarns. I am no historian but why were you so afraid of an open debate with Mr Sitaram Goel on this very topic ?