The trans war on reality, with Helen Joyce | The Brendan O’Neill Show
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2024
- Helen Joyce, author of ‘Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality’, talks to Brendan O’Neill about the totalitarian nature of trans ideology, the abuse of ‘detransitioners’, and why men must not be allowed in women’s sports, women’s prisons and women’s changing rooms.
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Helen is razor sharp and her book is brilliant. The tide will turn when more detransitioners come forward with lawsuits, it's only a matter of time.
It is sad how the corporate stakeholder's LGBTQ organizations have a misogynistic agenda oust Lesbians, Bi and straight women, but it's downright hypocrisy when they ignore and silence the voices and input of those who have detransitioned.
Ready to donate on behalf of every one of them. We need class action lawsuits.
@@mariegrace1476 Yes, but the people who will pay will be the tax payer, while the people responsible will be shoved around the system like so many dodgy priests.
@@JH-vy7uy I’m a gay man. I’ve been saying this for years. Everything I’ve pointed out 8 years ago has come to pass. The local community has declared me persona non grata despite the political backlash it causes against all 🏳️🌈-individuals. Such a dumb mob.
@@MFRUclips683 I'm still grateful that you speak up. Just being blunt, but usually gay men are not as impacted by the events that have been occurring, so even if they have a different perspective there's really only costs and very little benefit to speaking against the grain. So thank you! I don't think many people realize that silence is condoning, as it says "I see nothing wrong here". This corporate push for west coast identity politicking over midwestern liberalism only occurs because the stakeholders have power over media, tech, art and academia. Of course they push a polarizing agenda of tail chasing. Because midwest liberalism is focused on unionization and class struggles, and that's more threatening than shallow identities that can be triangulated. Centralization has accelerated their power to influence. A friend of mine served in the Don't Ask Don't Tell era, and when he got out and went to college, there was an LGBTQ advocacy group. He applied for a position with the group because he was passionate about veteran experiences during Don't Ask Don't Tell era, military sexual trauma, harassment, (coercive/retaliatory discharge) and he wanted to ensure that veterans still connected with the resources meant for them (repair any alienation). They interviewed him and said to his face that they wanted a diverse panel and weren't sure they needed another white man's perspective. The irony? No one on the panel was a veteran. This dumbing down of "lazy humanitarianism", and appeal to youthful narcissisms, will have a negative effect on social work focus. I worry about the future.
Let's be real: politeness is often lying.
And lying is often politeness…
Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote, “Good manners are made up of petty sacrifices.”
@@jean_mollycutpurse_winchester Emerson couldn't bear being around most people.
George Carlin said that political correctness is fascism disguised as politeness.
@@dianepeterson1186 George carline is right!
I can’t stand ‘fake nice’ people who think they deserve the right to control others. Invariably hypocrites.
As a man, I have to agree. Anyone who thinks it’s transphobic for a father to worry about that "male-bodied individual" in his daughter’s changing area simply is naive about men.
thank you for an authentically "male" perspective on the TransMess
I think it's even more basic than that. Biological girls and women are deserving of private, safe spaces.
@@biggregg5 Yes, that is one of the reasons that this whole issue makes me so furious.
@@susanhopemason
I agree
I stand with Helen Joyce, Rosie Duffield and J. K. Rowling!
And Mia Forstater.
And Kathleen Stock!
One of my liberal friends and myself went at it the other day on the issue of trans women athletes competing against women. When I asked him if he felt men have physical advantages over women...he said he didn't think so. I asked him if he felt men were physically stronger than women...he said he didn't think so. How about faster...he said he didn't think so. When I brought up the fact that men in track and field completely obliterate women in regards to finishing times, he simply wouldn't acknowledge that. When asked that because men have a biological physical advantage over women in athletics and therefore trans women have this advantage over women...his solution was that women simply need to train harder.
This is what we're dealing with in society today...tribal collective irrationality on steroids...which is what women will need to start pumping through their veins in order to ATTEMPT to TRY and compete with men competing against them.
Yeah, one of the things liberals can have a problem with is the idea that equality has to equal identical, so for example with black people and white people there can’t be any studies that show any significant difference between how the races respond to anything because that would be racist. With men and women there can’t be any significant difference between the sexes and any attempt to say that women are inherently weaker than men in any way is misogynist. So the next logical step is if people only think women are weaker because of a misogynist culture that consistently portrays women as weaker than there’s no real reason to separate the sports by sex, it’s just done because of tradition which is a social construct. The only reason they haven’t made inroads into desegregating the sports is they don’t want to look like they’re taking something away from women and enough of them realize there are meaningful differences to keep the crazy in check.
JFC....any thing to get men who play dress up to compete against women, huh? Smh..
I have run into this in a different way. I recently went to a "progressive" retreat. The new bathrooms were "gender neutral", meaning anyone of any gender could walk into this bathroom. As a woman i was horrified. Any man can walk in while i am in there, do his business in the stalls and shave while i am putting on make-up- right next to me. Any total stranger .
My friend said it did not bother her. This seemed incredible to me until i reflected (from years of knowing her) that she is a woman who is out of touch with her own feelings and goes along with liberal group- think, whatever it may be. She is not used to thinking (or feeling) for herself..
Last time I checked the science proved Trans athletes only belong in their gendered categories, how can you get into an argument over scientific fact?
Show your friend this relay race with both men and women.
ruclips.net/video/-ym42lV1ka8/видео.html
I remember when people who "identified" as Napoleon were given help. Nobody thought they should be put in charge of the French army.
or more to the point anorexics were not provided with slimming pills and those who were concerned that they were making a mistake - were not arrested and prosecuted by the police..
'Give me a man who's lucky.'
Napoleon.
@@Johnconno identifies as lucky
@@CiceroSolo jayesee doesn't 'identify' as anything.
Because it's the latest hula-hoop, remember all those 'toxic' people?
We are enabling people to be their own little Napoleons…
And we’re all marching around and standing on our heads to do their bidding…
I was a terrible tomboy when I was young. This lasted until the age of 14-16. My parents let me go with it and just used to laugh and shake their heads when I was climbing trees, kicking footballs or play-fighting with my male classmates. Now I would be classified as transgender and the boys would fight me for real and I'd probably wind up getting hurt. Sure, I'd hate to wear a dress when we had guests, big fights with Mum, etc. I'm in my 50s now and I sometimes wonder about this when I hear these kinds of conversations. Would I have been better off as a man? I occasionally still wish I was male because I think males often have an easier time of it. At the same time I'd have a scarred body, my system would be mucked up with hormones, etc. So idk. I'm straight, not transsexual, and I knew many girls who were tomboys. But I know one thing. If I'd gone home and told my Dad that there were boys in my changing-room he'd have probably gone out with a shotgun. He was an educated, moderate gentleman and was NOT intolerant of anyone's right to live the way they wanted. But the thought of his little girl being put in danger would have enraged him. Go figure.
Your father was a member of an endangered species -- the gentleman.
@@DieFlabbergast He certainly was. So was my husband who died in October. I've been very lucky with the men in my life. It didn't mean Dad didn't give me a clip round the ear a couple of times but I remember thinking that when I got married I wanted someone just like him. And I was lucky. I did.
I was also a tomboy when I was young, I think if I were young today would I be convinced I was trans and go ahead in mutilating my body. I'm glad I grew up in a different time because I wouldn't be the woman I am today.
People confuse men having an easier time of it as a generalisation, men doubt themselves less in general, men are less bothered about what other people think of them, but men have to be very careful in groups of men, the crap that women give eachother will only get you a very nasty smack in the mouth and find themselves very quickly ostracised from the group.
@@gimmemore9709 You'd probably be MADE to feel you were trans. This is what's so pernicious about not letting children be children.
I’m on the last chapter of her new book and - my word - it’s opened my eyes. I’m flabbergasted that gender ideology has gained so much traction, and that it has been allowed to so fundamentally undermining people’s ability to speak coherently about sex and gender. It is having devastating effects on female rights and people are too cowardly to call it out.
I always thought the phrase “war on women” was ridiculously hyperbolic. I’m now starting to revise that judgement.
I very much recommend Helen’s book!
Another one peaked! Spread the word! 👏
Welcome to your disillusionment, enjoy the ride.
'Trans' by Helen Joyce: required reading.
@@Little_Sidhe hello, there. I am just wondering if you are - 9 months later - still of the opinion that people who read a book and find it insightful are disillusioned?
Love from Ghana. X
The trans movement doesn't just want you to submit. It wants you to deny science and the empirical process.
“When my son was 4 yrs old, he thought he was a Queen's Guard. He refused to wear anything but a red t-shirt and black trousers, a hat with a leaf taped to the side (the plume) and he marched everywhere. We didn't drop him off at Buckingham Palace and demand the Queen validate him.” Mia _CryMeARiver
Sounds like you don't understand the basic scientific facts of gender identity. That's cute! You're like a toddler with grabby hands trying to be an adult!
@@blackriver2531 Sounds like you don't understand the basic scientific facts of biological sex !!!
@@blackriver2531 explain gender to me, then. I'm listening.
😂😂My sons friend insisted he was a fox and it literally took until he hit year 2 at school to get him to take his furry tail off. We didn't let the local hunt chase him down, either🤔😂
When people say "I use gender pronouns as a courtesy", what they really mean is that they are willing to collude with unreality to some degree.
I love the quote, “I am not obliged to humor your psychosis.”
If it is just he or she, I think I can comply. But, I know that isn't the end of it.
I don’t mind using terms like “transman” and “transwoman” for the same reasons I say seahorse and guinea pig. I’m using “man” and “woman” in those terms figuratively, not literally.
I won’t lie and say the transwomen are literally woman. I believe the vast majority of people do not believe that is literally true either.
@@onepartyroule Transman and transwoman aren't pronouns; 'she' and 'he' are.
@@aucourant9998 Obviously (?)
Listening to Helen Joyce is like turning the lights on in a dark room.
This is the most respectful, non condescending, informative, straightforward, non biased conversation video I've heard on this topic on any social platform, EVER. Thank you!
I am agreeably surprised at the open mindedness of Brendan O'Neill. This is the first time I have tuned in and will be tuning in for other podcasts as a result. He thinks of women as human beings. Amazing.
First time here too, totally agree with you and subbing as well.
Thank you so much for this! As a detransitioner I relate to so much of this! I especially agreed to the part of how our current way of living causes dissociation and we are not connected to our bodies so it's easier to start believing in these ideas.
Very interesting take on things. I appreciate your perspective.
I agree on this. In grade6-9 I struggled with my sexuality and moving to a new country with none looking like me and living in an abusive, tense house hold. I also had severe mental health struggles, I started thinking I was a guy (i didn't know what trans people were) and trauma induced dissociation really didn't help. Good thing I was bullied out of that :)
Uh.... humans know what their gender is. If you detransitioned that was just another step on the path to finding your true self 😂 wtf are you rambling about?
@@blackriver2531 Do you genuinely want someone to explain gender dysphoria to you, or are you just posting to feel good about yourself?
All the best to you, Honesty Project. I realize that it is often very, very hard for those who talk about detransitioning because they wind up being denounced and bullied by horrible “activists”...but I pray that some day you will share your story so that more truth gets out there...
I just want to listen to Helen’s thoughts about everything. She’s so sharp as well as down to earth.
Another great interview but I will take exception to one point that was repeatedly made, that this is not about individual trans people but rather about trans activism.
In some cases, particularly in the area of women’s sport, it is absolutely about the individual.
Let me be absolutely clear, Lauren Hubbard is a reprehensible individual and should be called out as such.
Lauren Hubbard is not reprehensible because of his belief that he was born in the wrong body but because he knowingly leverages trans activism for personal gain at the expense of others
And how do I know that Lauren Hubbard is a reprehensible human being? By simply employing the adage that Helen Joyce uses in this interview, By his works shall Ye know him.
Lauren Hubbard cynically uses trans-right as both a club and shield for personal gain.
A decent human being would acknowledge the unfair advantage that 40 odd years of natural testosterone gives them against their biologically female competitors.
A decent human being in Lauren Hubbards position, would be petitioning and advocating for a specific trans-category in sport like weightlifting, rather than cynically using the trans movement to achieve a level of success in sport that they never would have been able to achieve on their own merits.
A level of success predicated on not only destroying but on fundamentally invalidating the years of effort and sacrifice that female athletes make to be able to compete at an Olympic level.
That is what makes Lauren Hubbard a reprehensible human being and the fact that so many people are unwilling to specifically criticise individuals like Lauren Hubbard, simply because they identify as trans, is a huge part of the problem.
Well said!
@@That-Bond-Babe Stephanie Barrett's Wikipedia entry has been flagged for deletion. According to the revision history, references to trans had been edited out. This dishonesty on Wikipedia has been called out by James Lindsay regarding woke issues.
Also most transwomen consider themselves trans activists. The ones who “just want to live their lives” are few and far between. Most live on social media attacking women.
Certainly a number of famous reprehensible individuals should be named and shamed in this.
What's funny is that Lauren Hubbard couldn't even register a score in the final due to dropping the life.
Helen Joyce is the woman this movement has been waiting for. I'm 20 minutes into this and she's been deadly throughout
amazon tried to get rid of her book, the censorship is unreal!
Isn't she an absolute G?
I'm just 3 minutes in and I already expect that :D
@@womenbio7731 can you give me the source of that information please!
She’s the James Lindsay of gender... both mathematicians :)
The most precise and intelligent voice I've heard on this.
That actually makes a lot of sense. Computers and mobile phones have only just become popular in the the last 30-40 years, it's a weird coincidence that there's been a massive spike in people claiming to be trans
This is as mad as letting colour blind people choose whichever way they want to see the traffic light signals and act accordingly.
But as Abagail Shirer says 'the chaos is the point'.
this is a terrible analogy.
@@deefjohnholler I get what he’s saying but I don’t think colorblind people see green as red and red as green. The idea I think he’s aiming at is that we have to base our systems of communication, our laws, rules and standards on what objectively exists. If we base them on the subjective, they can only self-destruct.
Abigail Shrier, I’m sure you mean. She’s a gem.
Chaos is a ladder
Traffic signals aren't incomprehensible to color blind people wtf are you talking about? What's that have to do with the scientific reality that Trans people are valid?
This woman is courageous and should be celebrated not vilified. Clarified this crazy issue for me. A corrosive postmodernist contagion.
My consistent response to the “binary, gender fluid” people who want to be called “they/them”, is aaaaaarrggh you mean there’s more than one of ‘em!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Demi Lovato talking to Alok (who tweeted that little white girls are kinky, what the fvkk) to validate her existence and stay relevant made me want to be straight so as a gay man I am no longer put in a box with individuals like them.
Virtually all people are ‘binary.’ They feel their gender as men or women.
@@j_freed Facts don’t care about feelings.
@@MFRUclips683 I kinda feel that. I dont want anyone speaking for me nor do I wish to have someone represent me. Im not militant nor activist. Im pretty peaceful and I dont have a lot of truly whack ideas. Im fairly smart, introspective and ask all the same questions as the rest of the world, you have to or you fail to see things as they are. I dont care much for haters of anything. But I dont like people exploitiong others and me being towed along for the ride. I am proud to be trans, it really is a privilege to me, but I am not proud of all trans people. Same for all persuasions, sexes and religions really. Best of Luck to you!
Push back against everything trans. Bruce Jenner feels like a woman, whatever that means. To me, committed to objective reality, he is still Bruce. How I address him is my business.
My issue with pronouns is that someone else's whims do not get to dictate the words that come out of my mouth. Your speech should not be controlled by anyone but you.
Your speech isn't being controlled though. Don't like someone's pronouns? Don't use them. Call them by their name. Or don't talk to them at all. Is this like a constant problem for you though? Like how many times a day are you confronted with using pronouns that you believe are incorrect? Is it like, once or twice daily, or constantly. Or is it like never, and you just want to complain about something :)
@@richwilliams2301 thats actually not true. In canada they are now considering into putting it as a hate crime for not using right pronouns. You get blocked on twitter and cancelled for refusing to call a trans a woman .
@@sabyisme If you are refering to C-16, that's not what the bill was aiming to outlaw. It was malicios and intentional misgendering. Think of a person following around a transman and yelling out 'Hey girl, Miss... hey everyone look at this girl who thinks she's a boy." Having said that, I don't agree with laws that compel speech, so C-16 does make me a bit uneasy. However, you can just not use any pronouns.
@@richwilliams2301 yes it is controlling my speech and everyone else's. By telling me what words I have to use and what words I cannot use. No this is not a problem that I personally have in my life everyday. I'm speaking in general terms. And you darn well know that. Having another person's whims make me have to police my own speech so that I say the right thing or that I don't say the wrong thing is controlling my speech
@@snowps1 People control your speech all the time under that metric, when they tell you to call them by their given name. You are controlling everyone's speech by tell them that you insist on being called Chris. You are controlling everyone's speech by telling them that they cannot call you Christine. And I'm sorry, but if this isn't a problem that you actually face in real life, then it isn't a problem period. You are just creating hardship were none actually exists. Sadly this isn't the case for Transpeople. They are simply looking for a little compassion, and are simple asking that you not be a jerk to them. It isn't more complicated then that.
Debating these ideas is like being stuck in the intellectual equivalent of a George Romero film....you can beat each zombie easily enough,but they just keep on coming....
Perfect description.
Beautiful illustration.
Endless waves, exactly.
Here's the theme tune - ruclips.net/video/jW6D_1dJIH0/видео.html
😂😂😂That's the best analogy I've heard. But I keep going like a Negan boss getting cancelled and banned here there and everywhere whilst always providing research & remaining respectful for making basic statements of fact. Like biological males are stronger having gone through male puberty on Reddit's r/nursing despite being a nurse practitioner for 30 years and having worked in London's Charing Cross gender clinic. Lifetime ban without so much as one warning.
And I believe that this may be Helen's best interview now, all elicited because of Brendan's spot on question about the place of misogyny in this movement.
100% I'm so impressed with both of them.
I'm half please that Lauren Hubbard didn't even make the cut in her Olympic debut but half disappointed. If he'd have won more people would have become aware of this utterly preposterous situation🤔
I had no doubts whatsoever that he would fail, it was always going to be about paving the way for the next cheat and supporting the ideology.
She obviously threw it for the cause.
She’s paving the way for other mediocre trans people to be celebrated in female sports competition. It’s stunning and so brave. Even when they lose they still win… 🏆
@@j_freed Agreed
@@j_freed Well apart from him being a she.
I am Trans. And l feel that Trans women should not take part in generic women's sports. It has its own advantages that is, l feel not fare. Let Trans women have their own sports. ie Against other Trans women. Problem solved. There would no advantage.
And stay out of women’s spaces.
I am so often reminded of the Momentous Trends of the 1980s. Remember Repressed Memory Syndrome? It was being used to explain everything. People were prosecuted, families destroyed when unscrupulous therapists led the emotionally vulnerable to seize it as the explanation for their problems. Multiple Personality Disorder? For a while it was everywhere, it was all the rage, it was getting more and more common, until psychiatrists realized that it wasn't. Repressed Memories and Multiple Personalities (Disassociative Disorder) do happen, but they are not the universal diagnoses as they seemed some 35 years ago.
This Gender Identity madness will go the same way. It does exist, the Gender Dysmorphic are real, but not nearly so common as today's activists insist. And it is too often used to explain emotional problems that nearly always have other explanations. As was mentioned in this interview, some 10-15 years from now people will look back and say "what were we thinking?" as we have done with Lobotomies, Repressed Memories, and Multiple Personalities.
You've got it wrong: child victims of trauma DO repress memories, especially of abuse committed by the people they are deeply dependent upon (usually parents). What was debunked was the "False Memory Syndrome," a hoax which was invented by the parents of an academic psychologist, Jennifer Freyd, because she dared to out her father as a sexual abuser, and he and his wife wanted a way to discredit her. (In fact, she wrote an excellent book about memory repression: "Betrayal Trauma: The Logic of Forgetting Childhood Abuse.") The phenomenon of repressed memories is not controversial among those who know anything about child psychology or trauma; children who are being abused and/or neglected are not at liberty to live with the knowledge that those they are deeply dependent upon are cruel, self-absorbed and/or dangerous. What's fake is the idea that therapists are/were "implanting" these ideas in patients' minds.
I am always sad when Helen does an interview and it reaches the end. It's like that feeling after you finish a beloved book or when a favorite TV show ends. I could listen to her forever b/c she is always saying something I've either never heard before (and I've listened to a LOT of vids on this topic!) or have not heard expressed in such a thoughtful, articulate way. She presents such cogent arguments and explanations of what is happening! Thank you for the great interview! You asked good questions, too!
The world saw pictures a few years ago of ''the world's tallest 12 year old'', who just happened to be a ''Syrian refugee'' at a Swedish primary school. The media coverage of the story was overwhelmingly positive, telling heart-warming stories about how this very tall and somewhat unshaven 12 year old was bedding in, so to speak, among his new classmates.
Why would you be shocked by the same world applauding photos of obvious men claiming gold medals in women's events?
19:32 They dont understand the irony. They arent able to see the straight line that runs through all these ideas. Sadly, walking back their ideas means accepting some bitter truths about reality that most feminists cant do.
The inability of our society to speak the truth will be our undoing. It’s infuriating.
Infuriating is right. I’ve been explaining these issues with my family and friends, bringing awareness. It truly is, as she puts it, “a war on reality.”
I saw that picture, and flashed back to how I felt at age 12 -- a tiny, skinny girl -- and I couldn't imagine how creepy it would've been to have to share a class with that MAN. It's unfair to the girls AND the boys who really are 12.
Sweden is extremely feminist. I think they're kind of like a canary in a coal mine. I wouldn't want to live there, and I pray for the Swedish children and the refugee children who really are CHILDREN.😞🙏🏽
@@zxyatiywariii8 Just remember its feminism that has unironically caused all this.
Every trans woman is a biological woman until the day their oncologist sits them down and tells they have prostate cancer .
😆
Reality bites.
But part of hrt literally includes prostate cancer medication? Trans women don't get prostate cancer. And biological women can have a prostate as well. Are you bad with science?
@@blackriver2531 I think you are referring to the Skene glands in women, it’s extremely rare to ever become cancerous ( 0.003% ) . Technically you might want to call it a prostate because it produces PSA hormones but it almost exclusively rises with breast cancer . It’s function is not the same as a male prostate .
@@mrdiavel4807 wtf are you talking about? Cause I'm not a terf so no go
Freedom is Slavery. War is Peace. Ignorance is Strength. Quitting is Courage. Trans Women are Women.
This is an excellent adjunct to Helen's book. Research shows that even individuals assigned male at birth who undergo legal and sex reassignment involving hormonal treatment and surgery have the same male pattern of criminality as natal males. That's not including the self-identified transwomen. The safety and welfare of adult human females needs to be prioritised over the feelings of men who claim to identity as women.
Look up, "Female MMA fighter gets head crushed by trans gender competitor." To understand not just how rediculous this is, but, how brutal this farce is.
Fallon Fox almost killed that woman. Ruined her career and almost her life.
@@romeovoid7276 is it true that Fallon Fox concealed the truth about being trans, pre fight?
@@lynnebarnes3840 I don't believe so. Fox was given a license to fight by the Florida Athletic Commission, over the objections of her competitors. The woman's name is Tamikka Brents. The fight with Fox was her last.
@@romeovoid7276 I heard Joe Rogan's opinion on that fight and he was appalled. It crystalized his view on the trans issue. He said it was just a man beating the shit out of a woman, he was disgusted.
Loved listening to this podcast. I think we should leave children to be themselves. No drugs or surgery until they are over 21 and make a well researched decision themselves.
Normal people need to stop being scared of getting called names.
If a giant man winning gold while two women look on perplexed didn't do it. If a man being put in a women's prison where he attacks women didn't do it... Then nothing will. We're doomed.
haha cary grant - did you see the sky arts urban myths episode? can recommend.
As a New Zealander, and a person, the whole Laurel Hubbard thing is shameful. What the actual fuck? Just as well he/she bombed in the actual event.
"a distinction without a difference"
That is very profound.
I hope I remember this for future reference.
Laurel Hubbard getting into the Olympics was I believe a stunt to make people believe that tans should be allowed in the Olympics, or into female sports. Laurel threw his/ her chance. Also Laurel Hubbard is a very clever person and was part of the olympic committee for weight lifting in New Zealand, before he transitioned, so knew exaclyly what he was doing - his father was also very influential in New Zealand. It's all been very tactical from their position
I agree. I've been comparing two people -- Simone Biles when she failed her vault, and Laurel when "failing" that lift.
Simone's face was absolutely appalled/disoriented/"lost" -- just like she said she'd gotten lost in the air (which happens sometimes in gymnastics, I've been there).
But Laurel gave a blithe finger-heart to the cameras and pranced off. I think Laurel intentionally "lost".
Most excellent woman!!!
The only thing that I would dispute is the argument that men don't need male only spaces. There are times when men want to talk freely with other men in a single sex space, as this allows them to behave in a way that is often not possible when females are present. Feminists have spent the past few decades getting rid of these spaces, seemingly out of spite, whilst they promote female only spaces.
Men don't *need* single sex spaces because women don't pose a safety threat to men the way they do to women. They may be uncomfortable, but that's as far as it would go. If a woman were to go to a male bathroom, she would be in more danger. The reason feminists protested against single sex spaces like "gentlemen clubs" and others is because that's where many important decisions in politics were made, excluding women, not your delusional idea that they're just "spiteful c**ts"
What? Women can't go into men's bathrooms, locker rooms or sports so what are you talking about.
This woman is amazing!!! I love her
I was good friends with my father and really got to know what men are like so I was never fooled by any attention men paid me when I was younger. I am much older now and men are still interested in me and I still know what they are like and have never found one I want to marry after knowing them for a while.
The problem is , it startet with us being polite and using their language and look where we are now. We have to fight for rights we tought obvious. Don`t use their mandatory language!
@ Helen Joyce.
I have beside me a Concise OED, which says it was revised in 2008. So a workaday dictionary.
It does have the word 'transexual' and 'transgender', but the transgender entry refers the reader back to transexual.
.
But it does not have...
Transphobia
Cisgender (or cis).
Non-binary
Misgender
Deadname.
Trans (as a verb)
Trans (as an adjective)
.
That was in 2008.
.
But just 13 years on, if a cisgendered woman deliberately misgenders a non-binary person, or deadnames them, they can be tossed out of a job or organization for transphobia..
But that was the medieval period! (I was born in Palaeolithic, fyi)
Very well said.
Re. the “rights” issue…”transpeople” (which isn’t actually a state of being it’s a process/experience not a material reality like being black or gay…yes some people have gender dysphoria but that’s a mental health condition that would be protected in the same way as any other psychological illness) have all the same rights as everyone else already…any illegal acts against people who identify as something other than who they are in reality can use the judicial system just like the rest of us…the problem is that a lot of people that claim they were “discriminated against” for “being trans” aren’t able to demonstrate how their treatment was actually related to the “trans” and often it’s related to their violations of laws/rules that everyone else is expected to follow.
Riveting, impossible to put down page-turner. A must-read for anyone and everyone. The most important book of the decade. This ideology is a public health menace that's got to be stopped.
Thank you Brendan for arranging the interview - and Helen. Another excellent discussion. I've bought the book.btw.
Possibly the most based title for a podcast this year. Love it.
This use of "based" is something I have seen a few times very recently.
This is an adjective (in its use) now, is it?
What's the basic meaning?
Thanks.
@@staninjapan07 It's quite old net slang, but the lefites are trying to appropriate it in order to ruin it for everyone.
Based is to be so strong in your convictions that you can not be dissuaded or knocked from your base.
It also means speaking your mind and sharing the hard, cold facts no matter what.
Such as "troons will never be w0men". Based statement.
@@burntreynolds1068 OK, thanks for that.
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities , can make you commit atrocities.......
These activists are deeply narcissistic .
Mass derangement enabled through institutional capture and misplaced politeness.
Joyce speaks of a "female space." I agree, we all need our "space" at some point. And men have been yielding their "space" for generations now--a place were "guys" can just be "guys." It used to be work, but women need jobs too. We had gyms for awhile, but women entered those too. And so on down the line.... "male space" pretty much doesn't exist anymore. And it's creating stress. Regardless of anyone's opinion about it, "guys" like to interact differently than women. Our behavior is the way we like it, meaning we like to insult each other, tease each other, make rude comments in each other's company, tell politically incorrect jokes, etc. It's how we release the tensions in life. To outsiders this is "toxic," but it's not meant for outsiders just ourselves. Trash talking each other doesn't mean we're not inclusive. You're not excluded because of your identity, but because you can't take a joke or have a laugh at your own expense. It's the weakness that's excluded, not the identity (or politics or whatever). If you can "take it" without taking it too personally, you'll be included. And if you can dish it back, you'll be respected.
If women can have "female spaces" without men around, where they can trash men mercilessly without restraint, then men need similar spaces as well.
I now await the litany of (intentional) angry misinterpretations of my post...
You do realise is that when women speak of women only spaces, they are talking about bathrooms, changingsrooms, ect. For men these spaces are also men only spaces.
"If you can't look at laurel hubbard, if you can't look at women's jails, if you can't think it's obvious that you wouldn't allow males into the women's changing rooms at top shop, what is it that wakes you up?"
Nothing. It's over. The only thing that will convince the dialecticists is one of them writing an essay about Freud and symbolism that convinces them, somehow, that the past 30 years worth of "developments" in their field are all worthless and need to be rolled back.
So much respect and appreciation for Dr Joyce.
“Mediocre men beat even the best women [in weight lifting sports] (56:50)”
I am inclined to think that is true. I was homeschooled and raised in a rather sheltered environment. One time, when I was 20 years old, I was goofing off with my friend Matt; he playfully grabbed my arm quite suddenly. I had hardly been touched by a man past the age of puberty before. I will never forget the shock to my system at the strength of his arm and grip. He wasn’t a particularly built or athletic man at all. My mind quickly made a mental note: men are far stronger than me. Certainly, one could say I could have been fitter at that point in my life, but the feeling I had that day was deeper than simply “I am not strong enough” or “I need to workout.” It was a substantial difference between my physical makeup and his.
I love listening to Helen. I love how bold and harsh she is at times.
15.20 = 100% true. Young women do not get it, because they have grown up in a world where the battle for women's rights have mostly been won and they don't understand what they would be losing.
I stand with Helen Joyce and JK Rowling et al.....
Pronouns - she misses the point. There are moments when everyone in the room knows the trans person - and thoughfulness is required. But in a larger space, there are people who don't know the trans person - and using third pronouns causes miscommunication to occur. And when miscommunication occurs, then people can lose their jobs, or money, or their chance of promotion. Things can happen that are worse than having one's feelings hurt So one cannot mandate gender pronouns because they are very situation-specific. They have to be left to individual conscience and situation.
I was fired because I sent an email to my boss. I used feminine pronouns because she is a woman. She was highly offended because she identifies as a male. She uses only male pronouns. But she is pretty and dresses like a beautiful girl!! She defined her desired pronouns and I refused. I was immediately fired.
How is a man who self-defines as a woman different from an anorexic who believes s/he is fat and ugly? They both exemplify an underlying psycho-physical 'disconnect'. Does kindness require indulging an individual's personal fiction? There are greater societal harms that come from the slippery slope denial of truth and reality.
My concerns are that I’ve met a middle-aged “man” who was in the process of transitioning and he was terrified. He has a wife and family and he /she and his wife are not splitting up, they want to remain as partners. I wasn’t clear about whether he/she was still attracted to women in general.
Someone like this person who was in their forties had to dress as a woman for at least a year before they were allowed to have the surgery . I don’t remember whether he/she was allowed to take the hormones at that stage, (my memory is foggy on this), but she (out of respect for the very decent person she seemed to be) looked like a transvestite and she would hide away in the corner of the room clearly out of fear. If people are found out to be transgender they are attacked and killed at the highest rate out of all minorities. I don’t understand how anyone whose brain has not completed it’s development (between age 24 and 26 is the current scientific estimate) can be given hormones or surgery for the purposes of sex-change.
Actually, being transgender makes you one of the safest demographics.
I cannot comment on one particular person but maybe they are agm - basically it's their sexuality.
Excessive consumption of internet porn and zero quality time with his better half who has probably gone pretty cold to all the perversions being proposed as bedtime activities. Just my $0.02
Sometimes they’re killed because of the lying which is still terrible but that’s why I refuse to say “trans women are real women” it can lead to dangerous situations
My pronouns are 'I', 'me' and 'my'.
That's how English grammar works.
You have failed to understand what it is all about. English first-person (I & me) and second-person (you) pronouns are not gendered (they are in some languages). The pronouns in question are the third-person ones -- he/him, she/her, and the possessive pronouns his & hers (plus the possessive adjectives his & her). You don't address people with gendered pronouns -- you is "you" no matter which sex/gender you are: you REFER to them with gendered pronouns when talking about them to someone else -- "he did that/she said that etc. etc.
@@DieFlabbergast That's their point. 'My' pronouns are 'I' 'me' and 'my', the others belong to the people using them.
@@unrealdev5178 Aha. Good point.
@@DieFlabbergast You seem to misunderstand the word "my". 'My' pronouns are the pronouns I use for myself. So they are my pronouns.
So what I suggesting at a second level is that chosen pronouns are a load of b*ll*x not worth a tinker's f*rt.
Oh darling, proper grammar is so 1990’s.
Pronouns are Newspeak. The more we use them the more they use us.
I have sympathy for anyone experiencing distress about their gender (and I ask this question with respect) but how can anyone really know that their feelings about their gender are “wrong”? I’m female (and straight) but I feel like my mind is just consciousness and I’d still be ‘me’ if I was in a male body. I feel like maybe young people are looking for a feeling of mind/body congruity that probably doesn’t exist for anyone. Like people in their 80s probably don’t feel like they’re 80 in their mind but they just get on with life
Hi. Im trans femme. I have Gender Dysphoria. I am trying to be open and honest and in good faith here as you asked with respect. How does one ever know anything? Do you know you see orange the same as I do or do we all agree a certain feel works. And then theres the colour blind who are still capable. I am different and I dont not speak for others, only myself. I have known as far as my earliest memory. You may or may not believe the following, as is your right but you will see I stand to gain nothing but criticism for saying it, in past lives and reincarnation. Its on the weird side for some but absolutely exists and science has to agree, unpopular opinion. Matter cannot be made nor unmade only transferred. So all that ever is, was or will be comes from the same matter so given everything is just energy materialised ( atomic stucture and then go smaller... string theory etc ) it only comes to reason we share the same essence. We are all female at first then we are hit with a protein chain that changes and triggers the male hormone sequence into action. Heres the hard to believe part, I remember this moment. It felt bad. And it is a recurring dream for as long as I can remember. I have tried my best for the last 50 years to live as most of you all would have me do and to tell you the truth, it sucked. Badly. Suicide is a common thought. It is a common attempt. 42% of TG people try to commit suicide. Something like 10-15% of those try again and are successful. ( these figures are not extremely accurate, but very close, shooting from memory here sorry ) I got done with my attempts about 6 weeks ago. I am now on HRT. I am married. I am monogamous. I am an addict in recovery. I have mental health problems as a result of what I said as a child and the reaction of my father. I'd ask if you have ever had a rifle put to you for saying how you feel. Then think of that as a child. Later in my teen years after my parents had split my father had moved in down the road in an apartment complex unbeknownst to us. He stalk us. he set in motion the mental health issues. Amongst other problems. I have asked all the same questions as all the folks here. I have to to understand who I am and what I am. I can tell you one thing from my experience. I am a little on the hippy side so I put it to the universe on my 50th that if I am to do this I need a sign. I asked my wife one night when she was sitting on the couch why she loved me. She said I was beautiful, inside and out. I said when you look into my eyes what do you see. She said she saw me in there, hiding. I lost mu shit and came out. The universe rules again. I slowly started to research and see more for myself rather than listen to everyone else. I once again said to the universe, if this is right and I am supposed to be, make it so, show me no road blocks. I looked online and found what I would say was THE doctor, President of AusPATH. I picked up the phone and dialled the number, they answered and I could have an appointment in 45mins. I shit bricks and hung up. I called back and wanted to see if I just said a random day and time if I could just get that appointment. I asked for it and I got it. The universe again. There are wait periods. Long. Long. periods. I walked in. I adore my doctor, she is all class and if god had to have a servant of the purest heart he would tap her in the first instance, she is angelic I can assure you. I got my HRT. Smallest dose. Least harm. I have now my hips shaping, I have a larger butt which I love, and I am having some chest development already. These are all wonderful things, very affirming. But for me, it is the little differences that are sublime. Ive felt things as a man. And I was trapped inside, deep cover, cant feel. My wife picked 2 rose petals and dried them out. She brought them to me and held them to my nose and said to me, Evelynn, smell these.. and I did. I have never smelt anything like it, so so very beautiful... I cried for about 20 mins, deeply. It was the first time I, ME, had ever smelt anything. It is hard to describe the feeling of imprisonment. Im not an activist. I do have my opinions and they do differ to the trans community. But I am trans, I am a woman. I feel every bit a woman. Estrogen activates smooth muscle. Males also have smooth muscle so this does get activated on a cycle while on HRT so it is possible to feel a period, just not have a period. I do do the warm and gooey thing but I am also keenly awake and aware of the world, my body and what I do. I would swap my previous 50yrs and privilege in a Patriarchal society for ridicule and the absolute privilege of having estrogen course through me over the last 60 days in a heartbeat. Not even a heartbeat. Remember, science is mutable... and it has been wrong before and it will be again. One day this lady will be proven wrong, its all her opinion anyway and carries no more than mine or yours, we just give it that weight to make the environment we live in fit with what we are taught, which is mostly lies.... free to ask if you lie, happy to answer as best I can, attacks not needed but open conversation of educational variety I welcome. I am learning also. Why do I like pockets? Why do my feet now bother me? My ribs? Dysphoria can be crippling. Im still learning just how badly... Happy to learn ya along.
I should add, if we stopped sexualising everything it wouldnt matter. The examples given here make it sound like a 50yo trans woman like myself wants to be in school change rooms. We dont. Its attempts like this that make us out to be perverts we are not. And about this era and weve gone mad, Men wore stockings first, make up, earings, dresses, so this is once again an example of we are peculiarly targeted in this century, in past times we were seers, oracles and fortune tellers. Its only in the last hundred years its been twisted to be this shit we discuss here...
@@EvelynnLenoreAngel thank you for sharing. I can’t reply to everything you have said here but I’m sorry for the tough times you had to go through and I know that genuine trans people face terrible prejudice because of perverts seeking to exploit this issue. It’s interesting to hear your perspective because I feel like I was taught my gender by my parents and wasn’t really aware of it/what it meant until I was three or so. I think if I’d grown up orphaned on a desert island from a newborn I would have not known if I was male or female.. But I am happy to identify as a woman, because (biologically) I am, even if I don’t feel strongly that way. To me it’s no more part of my core identity than my eye colour or height. Again, all said with respect and quest for understanding.. To use the orange analogy, how can you know that what you feel now is the feeling of being a woman? Could it possibly be (for example) that you are now feeling positive towards your body because it is developing parts (hips, breasts etc) that you have been attracted to all your life?
@@CrocPit thats a good question you pose and one i asked myself often before leaving it behind. If you care to learn a little of my thoughts, its hard to express so there is a song on youtube by She/Her/Hers called Gender Is Boring. It about sums up somewhat my feelings. Gender isnt sex. You align your gender with your sex and I dont. I dont know what it feels to think or feel like a woman but do you? You can compare using analogies but is it intrinsically the same? The difference in my thoughts, my motions and body are estrogen driven now, so different. I didnt think this would be such a difference. Things as old me could correlate make perfect sense now. I see bad driving and I understand. I am and always will still be male in essense, I cant change due to certain other circumstances like decided I should experience. As far as Biology? If I decided to maybe have a good chance at dying on the operating table, and had GRS I would be about bio-Identical to a CIS woman with a hysterectomy. So to me when people say that trans arent women then you discount every other woman out there who no longer has those bits and basically reduce them to the same level as trans, and that bothers me, if I wasnt feeling like a woman it wouldnt I guess but I want power for all women. ALL. not the ones we chose. What if we dont chose you? Its a slippery slope to tread when we start leaving one another behind. First they came for the.... sort of shit is already in place. I am watching it. I am living it. I am going to of my own choosing have my number tattooed. It is coming. And it wont care your opinion of me, or mine of you. BTW, I dont have one of you beyond wishing you all the best in life, its tough for all of us and I aknowledge that. Sorry, long winded again but even this doesnt get near expressing the necessary things that should be discussed here. I do try to be open to everything and am indeed curious to know if im "just a mental case" or if this is a thing. They have studies being done. We wont know for a long time im guessing but if im crazy, it feels so good and right and im not the fuckup I was before, is that a bad thing? I feel I have more to offer now than I ever did, even if its just understanding you know. Im not a shining example of anything but I am now an open and honest book, on a quest for knowledge and to know who we all are, who I am and all that jazzz......
@transwomen are sexist men and you'll never be a man but we live on hey...
Re: Sports. I think part of the problem is that, generally speaking, women (including intersectional feminists) are less interested in sports than men. So to many of them it just doesn't seem a big issue. I think it will only be when a really big sporting event is overturned that they'll take notice - when the fastest 'woman' in the world is male, it may dawn on them that the record will never be held by a female again. Or when a male smashes the crap out of the women's champion at Wimbledon. Something like that might (just might!) wake up the women who go along with the ideology to seem 'progressive' or 'kind' or 'on the right side of history'.
Nonsense, we care a great deal but are either ignored or abused for saying so.
Canadian Jordan Peterson has been concerned about the Canadian legislation that enforces specific speech regarding the LBGTQ+ community and language used to express identify. While the legislation itself provides reasonable changes to the Canadian Human Right Act, it is the interpretation and implementation of these changes in society that are concerning. While it is unlikely that an individual will face legal jeopardy for misgendering an individual as it would not rise to the threshold of “hate speech” or an incitement to violence against an individual or group, the social and employment impact on an individual who is deemed to misgender or undermine someone’s “gender identity journey” can be heavy. This “soft power” to bully and punish, wielded by a mass of people, the vocal and militant members of the LBGTQ+ community and their SJW allies, tends to silence other viewpoints, minimizing needed discussion and compromise, hallmarks of democratic societies, and is a significant step toward a restrictive society. It isn’t necessarily totalitarian but is it a step down a slippery slope. We are seeing the slippery slope play out in many ways in Canada and the USA, along with other western nations, right now to different degrees- both in relation to gender identify and of course, race theory. Discussions around these topics are, of course, necessary and important, and actions should be taken to address issues that are identified as essential. However, when a segment of a society deems itself justified to disrupt the entire community under the guise of making things better for all, but pose only policies that target their own needs, and threaten those who have other viewpoints, then that segment of society has lost its way.
There is no such thing as “misgendering”…it’s correctly sexing and you wouldn’t be using their “preferred pronouns” anyway if they’re staying at your house and interacting with that person directly.
I am fully supportive of Laurel Hubbard competing as a woman in the Olympics, in Rythmic gymnastics.
A bulimics dream.
Misogyny in drag…….
Damn - that is a t-shirt. Your comment stopped me cold.
if someone requires a pronoun contrary to their biological sex, I will address them as they forevermore. Neutral enough to abdicate the pitfall of either colluding or antagonizing.
They seem to be distorting normalcy. We need to protect our children and females in society.
The thought police, it's like Germany 1933.
Absolutely brilliant 👏
I realised I liked this woman was when she corrected herself and said, "I don't think we give a toss about prisoners generally."
People used to be judged by what they produced and contributed to society. Nowadays the vacuous lure of image, narcissism and the pursuit of power by leveraging whatever nonsense you can invent seems to be the fashion…….good luck with that!
This whole thing is a tragedy, in my opinion, both for individuals and for society. I feel it's like a Death Cult.
Reminds me of the skoptsy.
Priceless! The reactionaries are coming to save reality!
So we've been getting it all wrong for millennia. At last during the 2000's we've finally 'evolved'.
Utopia. All, are now fully entitled to contemplate each others' navels - sitting standing or horizontal.
What puzzles me is why there aren't similar overweaning activist movements persuing gaols on behlaf of *really important stuff* like civil rights, climate crisis - or indeed, fighting against tax evasion...
Great podcast. Informed and thought provoking. Buying your book Helen. 👏
Excellent woman.
Excellent interview by both parties. I just bought Helen's book on the back of it.
One of the very interesting things Helen Joyce describes in her book is the way the Trans Lobby is funded, ie by several international multi-billionnaires who have organized to capture the heights of our society - the Law, the Health Service, education from kindergarten through graduates to academics and university administrators, the armed forces, the Intelligence services, the police, major Corporations. This is not an organic, grass-roots movement, as for Women's Suffrage, or for Civil Rights for Black Americans in the 20th century. It is a top-down, concerted, misogynist and sexist attack on women.
This is a brilliant interview, she is razor sharp and thought provoking!
Good that the discussion quickly left the focus on women's right as if the transgender ideology only curtailed their rights.
"I don't care."
That is what I use when people, no matter what sex, gender, and race whenever someone tries to either get lower or no charge when I'm bartending. Same price for everyone. Does it make me callus? Sure, but it has me make sure no one is treated unfairly unless my boss says they can get a drink either because they're a friend of his, or the promoter will deal with it later.
Although I completely support women on this argument, I think that there's a subset of feminism which opined that sex/gender didn't exist and that men and women actually have no differences. Unfortunately, I feel that argument was taken up by trans activists
I regard myself as a decent person; someone with integrity.
I am also quite naive about many things, including the subject being explored in this video and in these comments. My declaration of naïvety is not to give myself an escape route for whatever I might write, or to confer some kind of immunity to blame. It’s more that I do not have the particularly comprehensive background or knowledge about these matters that others here do. I simply don’t know very much about this.
Regardless, I still have thoughts, questions and ideas.
I do think language is very important, but not all-important.
This includes the use of pronouns (more on that later) but I even have questions about the various versions of “I identify as a…..”
I regard myself as having many identities-I’m a driver, I am a sister, I’m a citizen of my country, I’m a pet-lover, I’m retired and so on. I can also add “I’m a problem.” (Won’t go into why, because I’d quickly end up veering off the topic.)
But I’ve never thought of including, “I’m female” or that I’m a woman, until now. I don’t know why it’s never occurred to me before. I don’t know enough about “the issue” to work that out. I can make some guesses : maybe it’s because I don’t regard that as more important to me than any of my other identities, i.e. it sits on the same level as “retired,” “sister” and “pet-lover.” I’m sure that there may be other reason/s.
But I’ve come to understand that, for others, it’s the most important part out of all their identities; it supersedes all the others. For some, it’s “everything.” I do think I understand that-especially if that aspect of who they are has never been recognised. It is most important for them, even though mine is not very important to me. I “get” that distinction. I can see how there can be different degrees of importance about similar things, probably amongst most people.
And they change. Looking back, I can see that when I was working, and if I was going to list the relative values of all the different parts of my identity, my job would be much higher on my list than it is now.
So, I can at least see “where other people are coming from,” when they are talking about the importance of their sex or gender to their identity, but I can’t claim to understand it completely. I also think the idea that I’ll never fully understand it unless I myself share their experiences is a cop-out. Empathy does not require that.
I’m going to leave it at that for now. I have other questions and thoughts, particularly about pronouns, but I’m mindful of my resistance to reading long posts to the extent that I won’t even begin to read them-I just skip them and move on to the next (shorter) ones.
OMG. I’ve just scrolled up to check what I’ve written before I hit that “post arrow-thingy” and I can see that I’ve written way too much that I would ever contemplate beginning to read.
Maybe a solution to that is to write a Part 2 to this.
We’ll see…..
38:56, "Just fuck off..." Now that's an appropriate response.
I see comments get deleted…
I support feminists; I'm a 73 gay Englishman and I've seen a tremendous change in outlooks about sexuality - all kinds of sexuality - during my lifetime; I have met transgendered people - a few - and they were really, well, rather ordinary people; which surprised me; they did encounter prejudice though - constantly; I thought the other day that feminists might be showing a kind of sexism about transgendered people - especially transgendered male to female; female to male transgendered people seem to be less of a problem? Lesbians are often non-acceptable? Why?
Because biological men are crying for more attention. Seems that way. Seems like mtf are more aggressively trying to thought patrol/control.
Some feminists aren't anti-trans like this lady. She should not claim to represent all women or all feminists that's for sure. I am 18 minutes into this podcast and I've yet to hear anything compelling.
@@Protolamna I don't believe she is anti trans.
@@Protolamna No, not all feminists are anti-trans; I have read Judith Butler and as far as I can see Butler supports trans people totally; many people seem to be saying the trans 'lobby' is being too aggressive; what about the straight non-feminist lobby being aggressive? I read recently a book by Andrea Dworkin and I found the contents shocking; I asked two elderly women if Dworkin's book revealed truths about men - in their experience; both said yes; that shocked me even more. Have I been deluded or a victim of being male and being made to think within the framework of male power play - gay and bisexual and straight - I am 73 and I do think women totally equal to men; it makes no sense to think in any other way.
Englishman- you are an endangered person.
The first person I know of to suggest being a woman was merely a feeling was Judith Butler ( she called it a performance) .You're brilliant Helen but you can't hang that one exclusively on men. Foolishness is non-binary.
Excellent interview and book.
Hopefully one day Spiked will heart my comment, just like I love their content.......
Women's sport is now WOMEN'S AND EUNUCHS SPORT
The majority of these men don't remove their genitalia.
Thank you for keeping real, no one mention that lots of trance people that didn’t make it to what they were aspiring or never become women of their dreams… Tavistock lab 🧫 talking about, sadly all that called human rejects end up in confusing old semiretired neverland, lab 🧪 mistakes walking sick 🤕. I see them every day in Suffolk suffering.
The idea that humans are disconnected from their bodies is not quite true, we don't just put clothes on to cover up our intimate parts, we engage in wearing clothes to also enhance our bodies and project our individualism, the problem is some people are very bad at it and suffer negative consequences, and a lot of people are unable to realise what affect they have on the people around them, for example, it has become a fashion to wear big boots, loud coloured dungarees and badly applied make up, now that's fine but you can't expect people to take you seriously at a pro transgender demonstration when you look like Coco the clown!
I would argue that it is the attention women get and the esteem of women’s spaces that attract people who want to feel special. Why the hell would a narcissist seeking attention want to identify as a man?
Fantastic book, everyone should read it.