How Lithium-Ion Super Capacitors Work (Lithium Hybrid Supercapacitors & More) | Part 1
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- Welcome to Keon's Lab!
In today's video I not only unveil the BIGGEST Lithium-Ion Hybrid Super Capacitors you have EVER seen, but go in-depth to show the difference between the various generations of Lithium-Ion & Lithium-Ion Hybrid Super Capacitors vs EDLCs, and how they compare to Lithium-Ion Batteries.
We'll be exploring topics like Lithium-Ion intercalation, reduction-oxidation reactions (REDOX), as well as the differences between electrostatic vs electrochemical means of energy storage and how they relate to this exciting new technology!
Join me on this exciting journey into the world of next-generation Lithium Super Capacitor Technology! I'm proud to be the first channel on RUclips to present these MASSIVE Super Capacitors, where for the first time, Lithium SuperCapacitors have become so big they've finally crossed into kiloFarad territory!
Let's be among the first to pioneer inventions designed to utilize these amazing new devices in ways never seen before!
Welcome to Keon's Lab. And I'm SO glad you're here!
Links:
Wikipedia - Pseudocapacitors: en.wikipedia.o...
BatteryPowerOnline - Dendrite Growth in Li-Ion Batteries:
www.batterypow...
Wikipedia - Faradaic Current:
en.wikipedia.o...
Wiley Online Library - Definitions of Pseudocapacitive Materials:
onlinelibrary....
Wikipedia - Lithium-Ion Batteries:
en.wikipedia.o...
Chapters Coming Soon!
I mispronounced the word ‘Faradaic’ in this video. It’s not pronounced “Faraidic” it’s pronounced ‘Fa-ra-day-ick’. Sorry about that.
I would define either a "capacitor" or a "battery"/"storage cell" by looking at their discharge curve. Under load, a battery's terminal voltage would tend to maintain near maximum until near the end of it's capacity at which time it would drop off towards zero. A capacitor tends to drop off immediately towards zero in a curve virtually the reverse of a battery's discharge curve.
It depends on the battery chemistry, different discharge curves for different materials.
Capacitors store energy as a static charge.
Batteries store energy as a chemical potential energy.
100C is no joke
I know right!! It’s absolutely insane given the volume of each cell. So many possibilities…
You provide interesting information. I hope you can give spicy examples along with the dry numbers. You ditched 36h of work? Don't be so hard on yourself. I also watch Tom Stanton ,Big Clive, Diodegonewild and Electroboom. Greetings from the Netherlands.
Greetings from Canada!
I’m working on creating graphs and collecting the raw data comparing lithium batteries to these cells as well. I’ll also be incorporating them into some really cool applications/inventions.
The reason I ditched so much work is because there were too many cuts and it wasn’t really pleasant to watch, but it served as good video editing practice.
My future sort of relies on this channel being successful so I have to give it my all and then some. But it’ll result in some of the coolest video topics in the near future that I’m sure many will find VERY interesting.
Thank you so much for watching!
All brilliant channels. I watch um all too. I'm New to electronics and love it so much. I learnt so much from diode gone wild. He explains every component on the board and how it's reacting to others.. 👍🇮🇪😊
The tram he is talking about is a trolley, the thing that used to roam the city streets as a people mover. Looks like a mix of a bus and a train and a horse drawn wagon. Has a little antenna that goes up to wires above the road that give it power. It generally moves on a track on the road, and yes, they used massive capacitors to store energy to keep it moving when transferring from cable to cable.
That is SO awesome!!!
Excellent work!
Thanks!
great input thank you somuch
You’re very welcome!
Good info.
Thanks!!
Is there a simple way to parrell wire a S cap bank to discharge at high current but charge slowly. Id like to use supercaps for heavy amp draw with car audio amplifiers.
Of course!
That’s actually exactly what my next video on these is going to be! 😁 I’ve been designing, prototyping, and testing ultra high capacity parallel supercapacitor banks since the summer of 2022.
Stay tuned for it, and thank you so much for watching!
@@KeonsLab AWESOME!!
Just saw your RUclips short on these.. had to take a look.. will these have more charge discharge cycles than a normal battery ❓
😊🇮🇪🙏
Great question!
According to everything I’ve researched so far from some pretty reputable sources, yes they should last for significantly more charge/discharge cycles compared to a standard Li-ion battery, with the trade off being that while the energy density is quite a bit lower on the Supercapacitors, their charge and discharge rates are significantly higher.
Since I’m also wondering the same thing about how the specific cells from the video compare to lithium batteries as far as the # of charge cycles go,
I’ve recently begun the process of using my discharge tester and power supply to charge and discharge both types of cells on a regular basis and documenting everything in a spreadsheet to hopefully get a more concrete answer. I hope this helps
Damn i was charging these with 5 volt via a usb cable, how much damage i do after 1 charge cycle? The meter read 4.6v at 1A. I thought it would be fine to go over a little to speed up the charge time? How bad is overvolting this things or under volting?
Oh, you should never use that cell ever again and discard of it appropriately.
I hate to be firm with my comments but there’s an inherent risk involved with lithium cells that is made exponentially worse when they’re misused.
I’m assuming you’re newer to this stuff which is awesome :) and I don’t want to upset you, but connecting any kind of battery/hybrid cell directly to USB power for charging with no form of protection is extremely irresponsible and potentially very dangerous.
To answer your questions though:
- After even one charge cycle at 5V, the cell is already damaged and no longer should be used.
- While it *can* be fine on specific cells (including these) to go a little bit over the recommended current for short periods for faster charging as long as it’s within the manufacturer’s specifications and within the recommended operating temperatures.
It is NEVER fine to over-volt any lithium-ion cell, battery or otherwise, more than ~150mV MAX.
You’re lucky you didn’t leave it charging for too long or else it could’ve blown the pressure vent and potentially started a fire (though these cells *are* supposed to pose less of a fire risk than traditional li-ion batteries)
I’ll make a video on proper handling of these cells, as I should’ve done when I made this video.
Now going forward I’d personally suggest doing some proper research on how to charge/discharge and handle standard lithium ion batteries before trying these out again, but in case you do decide to charge (a new cell, NOT the overvolted one) again,
here’s some basic charging/discharging guidelines to follow if you have any more of the cells:
*You’ll need an adjustable DC bench power supply for this, do not proceed without one*
- Never exceed 4.00V when charging a cell
- Never let the cell voltage go below 2.50V, undervolting will also cause damage to the cell.
- Don’t charge/discharge with a current higher than 6A (I’d suggest a 4.5A maximum)
- ALWAYS keep your the leads insulated from each other when not in use
- Always have a fuse in place if using these cells to power something (I’d recommend the ‘LittelFuse’ brand of axial quick-blow fuses)
I hope this helps. Please be careful and stay safe!
Can this technology be still called a capacitor? Can it survive with 0 volts of fully discharged for extended periods of time without degrading? Or is it just another high discharge rate Lithium cell with very low-density energy storage?
While it cannot be discharged to 0V since it’s not really using capacitance alone. Lithium Hybrid Cells genuinely do seem to be a new iteration of supercapacitor technology and not just high discharge lithium batteries in a new package. They’re a combination of EDLC supercapacitor technology and lithium ion battery technology.
I’ll have to do quite a bit more reading and research to provide a concrete answer on how exactly the two differ beyond what I covered in this video because there’s some pretty complex chemistry involved and I don’t wanna spread misinformation. I hope this makes sense.
I use Eaton HS/HSL1625-3R8227-R in place of old SRAM backup batteries in vintage devices, hybrid, 3.8V. As per specifications, minimum voltage is 2.2V, and a cell management/BMS is recommended to maintain this. These Eaton I use (I have bought 25 of them) all come charged up to ~3.1V.
I would say that most likely other Lithium Capacitor formulations/hybrids have similar limitations/recommended requirements.
There also is degradation stated in the data sheets for these, it is "Storage: (3 years, uncharged,
@@r3tr0nic interesting point about the calendar aging (degradation of the cell during storage) If I had to make an educated guess, I’d say that yes it would also suffer from calendar aging. I could be wrong, but if I’m right, I’d be curious to know how the aging differs between the battery and the hybrid supercap.
A major advantages of them is some (eg. VINATECH manufacturer) are capable of being used while charge/discharge at low (below 0°C, like -20) and higher temp >50°C.
Anyone have done meshtastic/iOT RF node outdoor enclosure with solar panel instead of using 18650/21700 lithium cell ? This could be much safer while working in larger climate regions.
Right!!? Based on what I've read about these types of cells (though I haven't tested it out myself...yet...), they're supposed to be able to deliver a pretty acceptable amount of power even in extremely cold or hot conditions.
I'm imagining a feature that I think EVs could really use where a supercap bank heats up the car's main battery pack in an extremely cold climate if the car won’t start due to the cold
They're also supposed to be much safer compared to traditional Li-ion cells when it comes to fires, since depending on the cell's chemistry and physical construction, it can be possible (in a controlled environment) for a nail to be hammered through one without turning into an incendiary device (GreatScott actually had a video where he did just that, not the incendiary part but the nail through the hybrid supercap part 😅)
However I should also note that unlike ordinary electrolytic capacitors or even EDLC supercapacitors , the term 'Lithium ion [hybrid] supercapacitor can be used to refer to a couple different variations of the cells based on electrode composition and placement, which while very similar to ordinary lithium cells, differ slightly in their physical materials, construction, and to a certain extent, their performance.
Essentially I'm trying to tell anyone reading this that Lithium cells and batteries are no joke.
I watched something earlier today about these made with sodium instead of lithium. I cant find it now.
Oh I’ve heard of those, the Sodium Ion cells I think?
Are you Vitalik Buterin ? 😂Your voice ...
Damn that’s like the 5th or 6th comment mentioning that 😂 This Vitalik guy isn’t bad or anything right?
I want a pack to cjarge my phone and use it as a battery for my phone or Laptop
That’s actually something I’ve been working on for a few months now, and the prototype is almost finished! When it’s ready it’ll be the first of its kind 😁
turnigy produces 75c LiPos these aremt a big deal.
Yeah I’m also trying to figure out what the exact difference between those high power density batteries like the one you mentioned and these supercaps are.
I think I’m close to finding an answer, but the stuff gets real complicated real quick so I need to make sure I know for sure.
Learn to use a mic😩
Were there mic pops and stuff? If so I really do apologize, I still need to get a pop filter and other mic stuff to produce good audio
@@KeonsLabNo need to apologize, just don't do it again. At the beginning of the video, the volume is muffled, looks like caught in clothing or something; good luck
Interesting, I must’ve maybe forgot to adjust my volume when editing so I lowered the gain too much or something.