I grew up near New Orleans and never heard of this before. The wing cut a house in half, injuring one girl, then the explosion killed a mother and son, throwing the father out of the house. It then hit a hotel, killing two workers and nine teenagers on vacation. The recently built terminal at MSY is partially on the crash site.
@@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043 The school group went home to Wisconsin via train, even though Delta offered them a free flight. I don’t blame them. They were supposed to go to the Mississippi Gulf Coast the next day. 😐
The sad thing is that they had two good engines on the right side that nobody thought to spool up once they knew they were in trouble and the original exercise had been failed. This was also a very dangerous exercise; United lost a DC8 aircraft in Denver doing basically the same thing...when they cut-out the two engines on the same side, the aircraft veered off the runway and struck a hangar, killing the trainee and check-crew. Thank God they have simulators now that can duplicate these situations on the ground rather than having to practice them in real airplanes.
Nooo!! I was seriously hollering at my phone when the airspeed indicator started dipping below 160. All those lives lost, crew and on the ground..all those accumulated flying time hours.😩 Also, it’s like parenting; it just doesn’t really work, being a friend to your child. These pro pilots just got too chummy with one another, I guess. Allec, you have a great knack for presenting aviation mishaps I’ve not seen before. Thanks, you do a great job!
Yep, when the bank angle increased, they should have powered up Engines 1 and 2 again and tried to level off, but it may have been too late by that point.
Agreed. That 'too chummy' relationship may have been partly the result of these guys being military flyers together. A surmisal on my part but back then Id guess prob 85% of Airlines recruited from the service. That would explain the Check Captains to Trainee's fatal overconfidence in each other that cancelled out what they together left undone: timely corrective (lifesaving) inputs ! RIP to all the victims...
Reminds me of the Royal Australian Air Force 707 crew practicing double asymmetric failure below five thousand feet, lost control and killed all on board. Apparently Boeing said at the time that no 707 had ever been lost due to a real double asymmetric engine failure but that a few had crashed practicing for it.
There was an additional factor in that crash. The instructor had also disabled the rudder boost which was totally against the flight training manual. There was no way the pilot was going to be able to keep the aircraft straight with only manual application of rudder. The stupidity was that as the RAAF was by then the only operator of the 707 in Australia the manuals had become confidential documents. However, if the RAAF had bothered to consult the QANTAS training staff at Sydney, who had operated the particular aircraft, they would have informed them that disabling the rudder boost and then simulating a double engine failure on the same side was going to end in tears. It was crashes like these that led to mandated simulator training where the only thing going to get hurt was the ego.
3,000 ft over bay in Melbourne - x 2 out same side - trainee MAINTAINED CONTROL, THEN Check Captain disabled RUDDER HYDRAULIC BOOST = rapid roll initiated, inertia took over as nose pitched = typical non-recoverable in swept wing type. ADF at time in critical state of enforced early retirement = whole experienced cadre instructors lost - replaced with dipsh*its. ..SEVERAL additional near fatals - including "incident" of disintegration of N22 Nomad at RAF Tindal (miraculous survival both crew, idiot + trainee) signalled end of N22 in ADF completely.
@@peterlovett5841 Agree, and i have seen many ego's hurt at the FFS. The major difference is: "Let's have a cofee before continuing". (Only now 20 years later i understand what an asshole i must have been)
I was in 6th grade in New Orleans when this accident occurred. A classmate of mine named Greg Watson, whose father was the Check Airman, Maurice Watson. Another student at Hazel Park Elementary, Shelley Whittington, was the young lad killed along with his mother. Small, sad world that evening. If memory serves me correctly, the crash occurred on the second leg, or second takeoff and landing to a full shop.
The sad thing about all these landing mishaps is that when things start to go wrong everything happens in seconds or even fractions of seconds, giving the pilots very little time to react..it only takes a split second to go from alright to catastrophe, faster than the pilots can think.
@@michaelmccarthy4615 not very useful once the autopilot is switched off and landing is being hand flown. It’s frightening just how fast it goes from normal to catastrophic once things start to go wrong.
@@virginiaviola5097 the only thing frightening is how many years will go by before the world accepts autonomous flight ✈️ in all its incredible and wonderful abilities. The future is now ...
As someone who works night shifts fairly routinely, I can assure you, the "new to a night shift" person doesn't adjust to it over a week. Those "rest periods" during daytime? You really do not sleep well, if at all. Sleep is just not "going unconscious". It is a rhythmic physiological process that clears you brain of metabolic wastes. That "brain fog" of sleep deprivation cannot be "cured" by coffee, you will still have issues with decision making irrespective of how alert you are.
Ever tried swing shifts? I worked for a company that had its employees on rotating shifts, one week days, one week evenings, one week nights, then repeat. This is literally torture on your body mind and soul.
I agree with you all. I worked night shifts for 13 years straight and it was absolutely torture on my mental and physical well-being. I developed heavy dark circles and bags around my eyes that would never go away and it also lowered my self esteem/confidence. I left nights over a year and half ago and I met up with an old work colleague last week, who I hadn’t seen since January 2019. Soon as he saw me.. he gave me a hug and said “Wow.. your dark circles around your eyes have gone! You look so much better and healthier bro!” And you can imagine how I felt hearing such a thing! I found a better job working during the days and my confidence has shot back up! It even affected my dating life as it zapped me off confidence! I will never go back to nights again and if you still work nights.. try to find something better to work during the days! I sacrificed so much of seeing the sun whilst I was asleep during the day.. never again!
@@starboy5888 Sleep is so important. Sunlight is so important. I’m glad you’re back to days. Did you know that sunlight is needed for your body to convert cholesterol into vitamin d?
Seems truly sad that a simulation leads to deadly error? Could they not have tried the 1 engine out landing first? then graduate to two out? what a waste...
@@dwightdancy5163 Indeed Dwight - see the date here in this 'Real World - Actual Flight' simulation was 1967 ? Tragic events like this LED to the development of advanced computer run, gimbal mounted realistic (ground based) safe simulators. I quite believe that back in the first 2 decades of Airtravel develooment, the airlines just lacked these simulators in either quality or quantity - so they elected to use Real Airliners - with tragic results as this illustrates. But these tragedies gave impetus to the development of simulators which today SAVE lives. Yet, real world test accidents still occur: For example see the Air New Zealand Airbus crash in France that occured over the water claiming (from memory) all 6 or 7 pilots and plane. ruclips.net/video/70gRGNLG2c0/видео.html Absolutely tragic event - God rest their Souls. They say the amazing progress of Aviation safety is written in blood, and benefits many millions unawares.
There's a reason the instructor is that and the trainee is that. One doesn't have the experience. That check captain messed up, straightaway. Killed lots of innocent people... so sad. Nice video, Allec... :)
OH MY! The Summer of Love. 1967 was my best year ever. I got my driver's license, met my future hubby of now 51 years and was having a blast in high school. I bet I heard of this but paid little attention. 16 years olds have many things on their minds and news was not one of them. I do remember whenever there was a crash someone would say there would be two more in pretty close following. It seemed they came in threes.
I just found an article regarding this crash and most of the 13 victims on the ground were 17 years old, with 13 being the youngest. However, as much as I want to give the link here, the website where I read it is not safe to visit. It's from the website called neworleanspast.
The personal relationship and perceived equal status is important as you noted. If the Instructor intervened physically, he knew it would be an automatic failure.. Uncomfortable doing all thr paperwork and having to deal with all the gossip behind his back. I'm sure it still happens.. But now they crash a sim.
Anybody can mistakes.. Yes of course. But not here, otherwise why were there Instructors and inspectors on board. To make sure they got corrected and not let this happen. It's not a tractor trailer where you can stop and correct. These things fall out of the sky and kill people on the ground and it happened here. What a waste. They should perform these trainings at either military bases or airports with no residences near by.
I was a tractor trailer instructor for both a school and a trucking company and besides having to take more tests then just a instructor for a school I also took extra test for the company and one thing that I had to remember was never to buddy up with the trainee because of exactly what happened with this incident, I even had a student who was a ex-playboy bunny and yes she passed her test with flying colors and was hired by UPS ! She became a excellent driver but I always put what was important first ! I imagine airplanes are way more demanding, I feel so bad for all who lost their lives ! RIP !
I know next to nothing about planes or flying them, but I found your videos and was so interested in them that you got me reading articles about these incidents and trying to learn how planes work. It is so intriguing reading about how some pilots successfully dealt with strife and frankly I have a newfound respect for how dedicated pilots have to be, cause it is something everyone who flies passenger with trust in their pilot takes for granted. Thank you for shining light on how disasters come to pass and thus showing just how many others don't make those mistakes!
This all seemed a bit light hearted from the start, the use of the word Bud showed a lack of respect for each other. Perhaps that how it was then & it wasn't taken too seriously. Great production once again, thanks.
There seems to be a lot of conjecture around how 'chummy' they were with eachother, for all we know it had no bearing on the accident and neither of them realised the error
Yes, the word "bud" sure can seem disrespectful. The pilots might have been friends, but in today's world, I have heard teenagers speaking to middle aged men often say "hey bud", sure can be perceived as a slight. .. Language is important.
This accident was a huge marketing tool for my old employer (Evans & Sutherland). E&S was the first company to sell wide-body flight simulators, and orders started rolling in soon after this incident. The "Energy Crisis" of 1973 only helped to seal the deal. As my old boss told me back in 2000 (he had been with the company since its beginning), these two events basically gave E&S a "license to print money."
I did not know E&S did build flight sims. they made excelent visual systems though. I think the first sims where made by the Link brothers, but there where many companies that builded FFS later.
Oh my heart bleeds for you, I flew on a fully loaded stretch DC-8, middle seat, from Travis Air Force Base in Northern California to Saigon in 1968 with no meal service and only water to drink.🙄
Oh, really? And you're attributing the, "Cramped" condition to the type of aircraft, which had the standard single aisle, six seats across configuration? Was it possible that the operator thereof decided to reduce the space between rows of seats in order to accommodate more passengers? DUH!
The 'too chummy' relationship may have been partly the result of these guys being military flyers together. A surmisal on my part but back then Id guess prob 85% of Airlines recruited from the Services. That would explain the Check Captains to Trainee's fatal overconfidence in each other that cancelled out what they together left undone: timely corrective (lifesaving) inputs ! RIP to all the Victims.
Your simulated sound is dead on. Loud and shrill like 707s & DC-8s were. I was only a kid back then but I remember this crash. They should never have done training flights at night over populated areas like that. The loss of all those lives on the ground should tell them that.
I don’t remember hearing about this crash before but I’ve flown in and out of that airport dozens of times. As the video showed the plane taking off I was thinking why would Delta have a training flight THERE? Unless you were practicing how to crash without hitting a residential area
Another horrible tragedy caused by a "training flight" was PSA 182. Why a hooded (blind, essentially) Cessna pilot would be training in a heavy airline traffic Airport area is beyond me. Training flights ages ago were on uncontrolled grass strips in the middle of nowhere. Why that changed is a mystery.
@@NickDalzell I remember PSA 182 like yesterday. The crash was bad enough but it could have even been worse if it hit a school or any place of large gathering. In Arizona where I'm from at least there is a lot of desert away from populated areas that they can do training flights.
Not only that, duty time was different as rest periods were and simulators were not that fancy in those days....not very popular...CRM wasn't even a word at the time and all that added up. Six guys on board and between engineers, captains, co-pilots and instructors no one was really paying attention to what was happening, no one was monitoring properly and taking the necessary actions....so sad.
And that's what's great about today's simulators. I wonder how the deaths on the ground were justified or if that type of training was taken elsewhere.
Truly tragic. My grandpa was one of the engineers on that flight, but I obviously never got to meet him. Thank you for the in depth look! I’ve recently been scrounging around for information about the crash, and the simulation was amazing.
What often happens is that they build the airport way out in the middle of BF Egypt and for one reason or another, it attracts business to the area and that draws people. I looked at images of MSY when it was first built. The nearest houses were miles away. The same thing happened to the two nearest airports to me that handle commercial traffic
Considering this was before motion sims, training was done in the jet. I've watched Delta do trg at MEM many years ago and seen smoke pouring out of one side. Hindsight is always 20/20 but it seems unbelievable that the LCA didn't give him back the other 2 engines and go do it again. I had the accident report of this in the late 60s and wondered the same then. Considering that even today in modern sims you are still not allowed to take a botched maneuver all the way to a crash. We were always told it's not good for the sim and the sim instructor would freeze the motion and tell you "let's go do that again".
@matchpoint Nope, I retired from another airline but nonetheless when the LCA sees that the pilot has exceeded the required parameters for the maneuver and making no progress correcting them then it's time to stop regroup and try again. You don't let it continue until you die.
@matchpoint Disregarding smaller GA accidents the mentality of that time was to load you up with problems to the breaking point. Case in point, when I got my ATP I was using a KingAire C-90. The designee had me fly an engine out approach to a back course loc using partial panel instruments. I managed to pull it off but looking back by today's standards it was silly. If you read Fate Is The Hunter by Ernest Gann there's a moment when he's flying a very difficult approach and the instructor starts lighting matches and putting them in front of his face to simulate a fire.
As to not crashing the sim - it depends. Newer sims have better logic to prevent abuse of the sim. In some cases letting the student crash is rightly considered negative training, in others it serves to underscore the impact of poor decision making. Certain LOFTs would be a good example - I’ve watched crews make a series of bad decisions, progressively painting themselves into a corner (I even tried to help them and give them an out), but they stubbornly stuck with their bad plan. They crashed because they created their own bad situation (which could have still worked), and then lost control during a low visibility, high crosswind landing (dust storm at an airport the LOFT was never intended to take them to). I felt that they had earned that one on their own. It made for a sobering but good debrief. As to not giving him back the two idled engines - I 110% agree, that was unforgivable. You never let a trainee take you somewhere you are 110% certain you can recover from if they mess it up.
@@bradcrosier1332 Not sure how much newer they are now than when I retired in 2012 but I'm sure they haven't been replaced. Maybe it was trg. dept policy to freeze the sim before a crash. not sure how crashing would be any more sobering. You can bet you're going to do the maneuver again. doing it again isn't terrible but a 3 rd time is.
@@robertvaughn6646 - It does depend on the sim vintage and manufacturer. Most of the sims I was in were less than a decade old. Again, it depends on what your training and the trainees level of awareness of what they are doing. In some cases there is a significant benefit to letting events run their course. Again, I’m not talking about one V1 cut, or someone in at the beginning of initial - but if you paint yourself into a corner on a LOFT, yes. And in that case it’s not just rest and do it again, it’s you’re done - consider what your next of kin are going to see in the media. Are you happy with the decisions you made? I’m not talking about training maneuvers (which is usually the least of our problems), but rather judgement and decision making. If I were in the sim watching the scenario in the video evolve (with an LCA in the right seat doing training as in the video) - I would ABSOLUTELY let them red screen, then sit there in silence for a minute or so before asking the LCA _WHY_ they thought their course of action was correct - since they just killed everyone on board with their inactions.
Interesting that my very first flight on a Delta DC-8 was from New Orleans to Atlanta back in mid 1975, for our class (DECA) trip to south Florida for the national convention near Miami.
Back then, there were no sims in which to do this training, Delta lost three jets on training flights, a CV 880 on ATL, this DC 8 in MSY, and a DC 9 in Dallas. If I remember correctly, the cause of this accident was the failure of the engineer to turn on the rudder boost, or rudder boost failure. A couple of errors in the film, TO was made with the flaps set to full, should be 15, and the two engines were cut right after takeoff, it would have crashed right away. This aircraft crashed into a motel while a bunch of school kids were staying there, sad.
Hi! Another great video! I am always anxious for the new ones- I am watching reruns, patiently waiting for the next new one...and the next...and the next.........☺
This was truly a very fine and informative video Mr. Allec and it goes to show us that even very experienced pilots can make mistakes. It's heartbreaking that not only were the pilots and engineers killed but also innocent people on the ground. Thank you for continuing to give us these videos I realize you work very hard on them.
Another great video, thanks! I don't know if you go back as far as World War 2, but if so, there are a couple of stories you might want to look at, when Army Air Force bombers crashed at two different locations in or near Memphis TN, a few weeks apart in the spring of 1944. A B-24 crashed near the town of Millington, north of Memphis, close to an ammunition plant. The one survivor was, I believe, the tailgunner who bailed out. There was also a B-25 which crashed into a midtown Memphis neighborhood, narrowly missing a school and several businesses before striking a house, killing the crew and four people in the house. Thanks again for another interesting video.
There were many military crashes in the US during WW2. Here in rural Iowa, we had a neighbor who was a pilot of a B-25. On a practice flight he buzzed his parents home about 3 miles away but got too low and left the tail in a tree top. They tried to gain enough altitude to bail out but never got over 200 feet. Crashed in a field and burned. 6 killed.
@@MrTruckerf Yep, people don't realize how often that happened during the war. The B-25 story here in Memphis is similar in that two of the three men on board were from Memphis...the third was from Dallas. Witnesses thought the pilot tried to avoid crashing in a neighborhood, but that's speculative, since reportedly there was no communication with the plane's crew immediately before the crash.
I found another channel did a video of this crash, but with a narration as Allec has tried in the past. Didn't care for it a bit. Keep doing these videos how you're doing them Allec, you do a great job!
I LOVE Flying [I have since I was 5-years old] & I've flown in all manner of aircraft! At 60 years young, I've flown all over the world & vividly remember my first flight (w/ my Maternal Grandad!) SAV-ATL was on 1971 on a Delta DC-8. The flight had to circle/pattern around Atlanta/ATL for just over 1-Hour ~ it was a GIFT FROM HEAVEN For ME..!!! My Grandad slept the entire time. Yep, Grandad's ARE Like THAT! Right? :-) God Bless ALL American PATRIOTS...!!!!
I was going to say congratulations, you made it but I now notice your comment is 1 minute old. So … good luck. I’ll keep an eye on the news for any crashes.
Update: There is a million aircraft flying in Chicago right now, so they put us on what is called a “ground stop”, which means I’m gonna have to wait another 45 minutes before takeoff.
I flew into Chicago to catch a connecting flight. I have vowed to never set foot there again. A huge storm had just moved through and it was utter chaos.
I don't understand how 2 pilots with a combined 38,000 hours in the air can forget how to land an airplane. Instead of pushing the throttles up the captain raises the nose. Did he forget which is which?
I was only 10 years old when this crash happened, but even as a kid, accidents like this you don't forget, especially when you live in one of the near-by suburbs. This was the worst plane crash in the New Orleans area (actually Kenner) until the 1982 Pan Am Flight 759 disaster, which also occurred in Kenner, La., where the airport is located. Addendum- There actually was another serious plane crash that occured outside New Orleans in 1964, look up history of Eastern Flight 304. The plane crashed into Lake Pontchartrain, closer to the Mandeville side of the lake, killing all 58 on board. There is even a 2/25/14 story from the Times-Picayune that takes a look back at the history of the disaster.
There s big diferencie in sim and real life trainning. The are still Flight trainning in some countries on real life emergency procedures. Even on the US.
Man, something where justa little more rest and authority would've more likely made the difference. What a shame.......Good job with the video tho my friend 👍
You don't drop the flaps down that low on two engines. And you don't continue with a doomed approach. You abandon the training and save your and others' lives by powering up the idling engines again. Atrocious.
Well done Allec sir. Another Great AiR Disaster Video. Very horrifying to see that all on board (+ the 13 on the ground) were killed because of the small rest period from Captain Morton. With the fatigue of the pilots, the plane crashed. Very horrifying. RIP to all on board who died.
I flew DC-8's for many years. On a two engine approach you're committed to the runway when the gear comes out. Any four engine jet doing a two engine approach is an energy management exercise. If you get slow and start having to add power it can go awry quick. A go around had to be executed by 500 ft. Back when this accident happened and jet fuel was 10 cents a gallon all training was done in the airplane.
I was living in NOLA back then and remember it well it went down in Kenner not too far from the airport and went through many houses then crashed into a Hotel that was near the end of the runway.
Great report! Did they ever find the Check Pilots clipboard and determine what the final grade was, along with the weak points? And what did the FAA guy onboard jot down in his notes?
My mother was the pbx operator that night at the Hilton inn when that happened i didn't get any sleep because of all the lights we lived close to the airport
HEY ALEC, HOW ABOUT A VIDEO ABOUT THE BOMBING OF UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 629? On November 1st, 1955, United Airlines flight 629 (AKA "Mainliner Denver"), a multi stop flight starting in New York with stops in Chicago, Denver, Portland, and ending in Seattle took off from Denver's Stapleton Airport. The plane was a McDonnell Douglas DC-6. About 16 minutes after takeoff, the plane heading north began turning to the west. It was approaching the town of Longmont when a massive explosion blew the plane apart! Fiery pieces of aircraft and luggage fell and littered a sugar beet field. All 39 passengers and 5 crew members were killed. (The youngest victim was a toddler traveling with his mother to visit his father, aU.S. military officer in Japan). At first, the horrible incident was believed to be an accident. But, as investigators examined the pieces, they found the evidence showed the explosion came from a small point of origin. They also determined the explosion was too powerful to have been from a fuel tank. Chemical tests showed residue of dynamite was on various pieces. The FBI began questioning family members of the victims. One man, John Gilbert Graham, the adult son of passenger Daisy King kept coming up as suspicious. Soon, the investigators pinpointed the origin of the explosion. It came from the suitcase of Daisy King! The FBI also learned of a pending Life insurance claim filed by Graham. He had purchased the travelers life insurance policy from a vending machine at Stapleton Airport. The FBI arrested Graham, and after hours of interrogation, he admitted to planting the 20+ sticks of dynamite in his mother's suitcase. He explained he held resentment toward his mother from childhood when she abandoned him at an orphanage. Graham was tried for 44 counts of Murder. He was found guilty, and sentenced to death. On January 11, 1957, He was executed in the Colorado State Prison Gas chamber.
I have done many many many of the same exercise on the FFS and recognize the situation. What struggles me is the shear amount of experience which would make this kind of training almost a formality. It's just not difficult, but one needs to be verry precies on a jet like this one. The remark, "keep the ball in the middle" certainly should not have been mentioned and shows in an early the pilot flying had the situation not under control (given the experience almost imposible). What strugs me again, is the fact that the training captain did not intervene. yes it might agrivate the PF but they still would be alive. Also keep in mind both left engines where just idling, and when the situation got bad could have been opened up. As Alec states, it is verry likely both pilots suffered from fatique. btw: it is unclear to me what both pilots did fly before the DC-8, this migth be relevant.
I think the video pictures Flaps 35 during the takeoff. The normal takeoff flap was 25 degrees for most airlines. When we picked up a DC8-51 from Delta in 1977 they used 15 degrees. The video shows a simulated #1 Engine failure at V1 which would be a normal training practice. The video then shows a simulated failure of #2 Engine a few seconds later. That would never be done and nothing in the accident report said it was done. I could see the check airman failing a second engine at pattern altitude and the flaps selected Up. Different airlines have different procedures but most places I flew the DC8 there was a commit height before landing flaps were selected. The manual I still have said it was 200’-400’ AGL for landing flaps, but flaps 25 was recommended with sufficient runway. The check airman caused the crash by selecting landing flaps at 650’ and not informing the trainee.
@@5roundsrapid263 same, i was really surprised. so there are three crashes for nola. this one, the lake, and the wind shear on takeoff from the airport. any others you know about? tks for your response.
@@karronlaneNOLA A flight lost both engines in 1988. It flew into a storm, and hail destroyed the fan blades. It was going to ditch in the river, when the pilot saw a long grassy levee. He landed it, and everyone survived. It was right in front of the NASA Michoud facility!
I live near and have worked at moisant. This one is largely forgotten. And so is eastern airlines flight 304, another DC-8 that crashed into lake ponchartrain in February 1964
I remember this accident. I lived only 3.5 miles from the airport at the time of the crash. The aircraft hit the back of the Hilton Hotel. There was also some one on the aircraft that was connected with the investigation of President Kennedy’s assignation. If I remember right he was a witness about to testify.
My late father, God rest his soul, was a pilot. He always said it: the most dangerous thing you can do behind the stick is fly low and slow. Because then you have neither a cushion of recovery altitude nor a cushion of recovery speed. (Which, BTW, has much to do with why there have been so many airshow crashes over the years.) Here's a crazy idea: why not practice landings with multiple engine failures at 12000 feet instead of at 2000 feet? Just saying...
As a non-pilot, I just don't understand how pilots can let the airspeed drop so precipitously and not put on power. Even if it is to end the simulation and add power back to the idled engines for a go around. But inattention to airspeed seems to be a problem that occurs in some crashes.
As a private GA pilot, I agree. All that needed to happen was for either pilot to have “taken charge” and added power to the idled engines. But deference and passivity is a human condition that has lead to many fully functional aircraft being flown into the ground. Exact same as the Teterboro Learjet accident Allec posted recently..
Overload and fixation on other things is how it happens. This is especially true if the crew is fatigued. Flying a plane is easy for a professional crew, until it isn't. Then it can get very busy and very difficult really quick. What a crew does in those critical moments makes all the difference whether it be by luck, skill or both.
@@jonesjones7057 I can understand that. But this crew in particular was practicing a reduced power landing and was aware of the unusually low airspeed and still didn't do enough. I guess you just have to have some experience in the seat to understand.
Never and I mean never turn into a failed engine or worse two failed. That is a down on any type ride and should not be allowed in any context except at a safe altitude to show what not to do. Not a Bob Hoover routine. Could not believe what I was seeing.
Similar thing happened in Atlantic City International Airport in my wonderful state of New Jersey it was in the sixties as well it was a n 07 I believe
Hi,can you do Malaysia airline MH653 crash in 4 Disember 1977 Aircraft type:Boeing 737-200 Fatalities:100 people Crash site:Tanjung Kupang,Johor, Malaysia. Cause:Hijacking Reason of hijacking:unknown Hijackers:unknown This crash remains a mystery I hope you do it 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@kirilmihaylov1934 Well, In the evening of 4 disember 1977,MH653 was schedule to fly from Penang internasional airport to Subang internasional airport (Now being called as Sultan Abdul Aziz Shah airport). Just after 7:24 pm,MH653 depart from Penang internasional airport.In command is Captain G.K Ganjoor and First officer Kamaruzaman Jali.The flight is carrying 100 people.73 people are Malaysian while the others are foreigner. While on approach to subang,the flight had been hijacked by a group of hijacker.The Hijackers tell the captain to cut the radio but captain had already declare an emergency. Knowing about the captain action,the hijacker tell the captain to fly to singapore.The other flight on the runway waiting the MH653 to land is curious then ask 'what is your problem?'.Captain G.k Ganjoor tell to the controller 'we had hijacker on board!!''.The controller want fight 653 to land at subang,but captain G.K Ganjoor rufuse and said ' We are proceeding to singapore' And then 40 minutes later,the flight is crusing altitude at 21000 feet over state of johor.There's a argument between the hijackers and the flight crew.The hijackers are angry because the captain had expose their location where they want to go. And then the flight crew contact the singapore approach controller to guide them to land at Paya Lebar internasional airport. The approach controller then give clearence to decend to flight level 15000 feet.Then captain then replied 'Cleared to 15 thousand feet,MH 653'.Two second later, two gun shot sound can be hear in the radio before the controller lost radio contact of the flight. Fearing the worst scenario,the controller then declared an amergency that a plane had been missing over Tanjung kupang,Johor,Malaysia. Meanwhile,villages from nearby Tanjung Kupang tell to the police officer at local police station that they heard a explosion coming from the swam area.The police also been informed that there's a plane that missing over tanjung kupang. The police and rescue team then conducted a search and rescue at the swam area when they found the wreakage of MH 653.The flight crash nose first to the ground and all body of the passengers are cannot being undentified. There's many thories about the hijacking.But all of them cannot been comfirmed. The reason of the hijacking and the indentity of the hijackers still remains a mystery.
They couldn’t have achieved a worse result by giving it a go. Air New Zealand lost a DC8 in the 60s in a similar training accident. This is why they now have simulators.
That was the point off the simulation. No power in two engines. But the check pilot should have called it off when it appeared things were going bad. He failed to do so.
@@SMaamri78 Yeah, if it looked like it was getting too dangerous I'd have gone ahead and powered up engines 1 & 2 and used the controls to level off. But at some point it becomes too late to save the plane.
At some point, the Instructor Pilot has to say "EFF this, training is over, this is real life and cob the power on the two "dead" engines and try again. Also, turning into TWO "dead" engines??
Exactly what was on my mind, when the speed dropped under 160, captain in fact failed the test. Full power on left engines and get the hell out of it anx try again.
Way back in WWII Jimmy Doolittle showed the USAAF that you can turn into the dead engine(s) as long as you have sufficient airspeed. I have a lot of experience landing 4-engine jets on 3 engines and on 2 and 1 engines in the simulator, as well as observing others, and I don't remember anyone ever saying don't turn into the dead engines. What I do remember is everyone paying very close attention to airspeed and energy management.
I love your channel. It’s fascinating and you do a terrific job. Two requests if you don’t mind: 1) Would you consider making titles that don’t reveal or suggest the outcome of the flight? Some don’t but some do. I would prefer to find out as I watch. 2) Is there any way to make it so that no comments appear unless someone clicks to see the comments? Very often, the one featured comment that is displayed (I don’t know if it’s because it’s the most popular or just the first one) is a spoiler that gives away the outcome of the flight. It would be nice to be able to watch without already knowing from the start what happens at the end.
"... it is obvious that his actual rest period was minimal." This is a great example of a bad sentence from a writer who was trying to sound smart instead of trying to write a clear sentence. It should have been "... it is obvious that he hadn't gotten enough sleep." It is almost always true that if you can rephrase something with simpler, clearer words, you should rephrase it with simpler, clearer words. Do not try to sound smart because you will fail.
9 of the 13 people killed on the ground were high school girls on a field trip, staying in a hotel.
RIP to all.
So incredibly sad.
OMG that is horrible.
I grew up near New Orleans and never heard of this before. The wing cut a house in half, injuring one girl, then the explosion killed a mother and son, throwing the father out of the house. It then hit a hotel, killing two workers and nine teenagers on vacation. The recently built terminal at MSY is partially on the crash site.
good nfo, thank.
Can you imagine the horror those poor people went through and yet how miraculously the others were spared. Ya just never know...!
@@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043 The school group went home to Wisconsin via train, even though Delta offered them a free flight. I don’t blame them. They were supposed to go to the Mississippi Gulf Coast the next day. 😐
@@5roundsrapid263 i can appreciate that :-(
@@5roundsrapid263 • What karron lane said. 😞
The sad thing is that they had two good engines on the right side that nobody thought to spool up once they knew they were in trouble and the original exercise had been failed. This was also a very dangerous exercise; United lost a DC8 aircraft in Denver doing basically the same thing...when they cut-out the two engines on the same side, the aircraft veered off the runway and struck a hangar, killing the trainee and check-crew. Thank God they have simulators now that can duplicate these situations on the ground rather than having to practice them in real airplanes.
It happened fast - there wouldn't have been time get the other engines started.
@@TheHaratashi, probably true... Those old engines needed a long spool-up time.
Nooo!! I was seriously hollering at my phone when the airspeed indicator started dipping below 160. All those lives lost, crew and on the ground..all those accumulated flying time hours.😩
Also, it’s like parenting; it just doesn’t really work, being a friend to your child. These pro pilots just got too chummy with one another, I guess.
Allec, you have a great knack for presenting aviation mishaps I’ve not seen before. Thanks, you do a great job!
Yep, when the bank angle increased, they should have powered up Engines 1 and 2 again and tried to level off, but it may have been too late by that point.
Agreed.
That 'too chummy' relationship may have been partly the result of these guys being military flyers together.
A surmisal on my part but back then Id guess prob 85% of Airlines recruited from the service.
That would explain the Check Captains to Trainee's fatal overconfidence in each other that cancelled out what they together left undone: timely corrective (lifesaving) inputs !
RIP to all the victims...
@@psalm2forliberty577 • I believe you are spot on - when they realized it it was just too late for recovery. Yes, RIP to all who perished..
You were hollering at your phone? Do you yell at the movie in a theater too?
@@SpicyTexan64 • No.
Reminds me of the Royal Australian Air Force 707 crew practicing double asymmetric failure below five thousand feet, lost control and killed all on board. Apparently Boeing said at the time that no 707 had ever been lost due to a real double asymmetric engine failure but that a few had crashed practicing for it.
There was an additional factor in that crash. The instructor had also disabled the rudder boost which was totally against the flight training manual. There was no way the pilot was going to be able to keep the aircraft straight with only manual application of rudder. The stupidity was that as the RAAF was by then the only operator of the 707 in Australia the manuals had become confidential documents. However, if the RAAF had bothered to consult the QANTAS training staff at Sydney, who had operated the particular aircraft, they would have informed them that disabling the rudder boost and then simulating a double engine failure on the same side was going to end in tears. It was crashes like these that led to mandated simulator training where the only thing going to get hurt was the ego.
3,000 ft over bay in Melbourne - x 2 out same side - trainee MAINTAINED CONTROL,
THEN Check Captain disabled RUDDER HYDRAULIC BOOST = rapid roll initiated, inertia took over as nose pitched = typical non-recoverable in swept wing type.
ADF at time in critical state of enforced early retirement = whole experienced cadre instructors lost - replaced with dipsh*its. ..SEVERAL additional near fatals - including "incident" of disintegration of N22 Nomad at RAF Tindal (miraculous survival both crew, idiot + trainee) signalled end of N22 in ADF completely.
@@peterlovett5841 Agree, and i have seen many ego's hurt at the FFS.
The major difference is: "Let's have a cofee before continuing".
(Only now 20 years later i understand what an asshole i must have been)
@@pascalcoole2725
Don’t be so tough on yourself; once an asshole, always an asshole.
@@christopherbatty3837 ADF?
I was in 6th grade in New Orleans when this accident occurred. A classmate of mine named Greg Watson, whose father was the Check Airman, Maurice Watson. Another student at Hazel Park Elementary, Shelley Whittington, was the young lad killed along with his mother. Small, sad world that evening. If memory serves me correctly, the crash occurred on the second leg, or second takeoff and landing to a full shop.
That escalated quickly.
The sad thing about all these landing mishaps is that when things start to go wrong everything happens in seconds or even fractions of seconds, giving the pilots very little time to react..it only takes a split second to go from alright to catastrophe, faster than the pilots can think.
Good thing computers are able to process situations at the speed of light.
@@michaelmccarthy4615 not very useful once the autopilot is switched off and landing is being hand flown. It’s frightening just how fast it goes from normal to catastrophic once things start to go wrong.
We will never know when a bad accident would happen to us
@@virginiaviola5097 the only thing frightening is how many years will go by before the world accepts autonomous flight ✈️ in all its incredible and wonderful abilities.
The future is now ...
As someone who works night shifts fairly routinely, I can assure you, the "new to a night shift" person doesn't adjust to it over a week. Those "rest periods" during daytime? You really do not sleep well, if at all. Sleep is just not "going unconscious". It is a rhythmic physiological process that clears you brain of metabolic wastes. That "brain fog" of sleep deprivation cannot be "cured" by coffee, you will still have issues with decision making irrespective of how alert you are.
Ever tried swing shifts? I worked for a company that had its employees on rotating shifts, one week days, one week evenings, one week nights, then repeat. This is literally torture on your body mind and soul.
Absolutely. It should be illegal.
I did night shift for a few years. It took me about a month or two to adjust.
I agree with you all. I worked night shifts for 13 years straight and it was absolutely torture on my mental and physical well-being. I developed heavy dark circles and bags around my eyes that would never go away and it also lowered my self esteem/confidence. I left nights over a year and half ago and I met up with an old work colleague last week, who I hadn’t seen since January 2019. Soon as he saw me.. he gave me a hug and said “Wow.. your dark circles around your eyes have gone! You look so much better and healthier bro!” And you can imagine how I felt hearing such a thing! I found a better job working during the days and my confidence has shot back up! It even affected my dating life as it zapped me off confidence! I will never go back to nights again and if you still work nights.. try to find something better to work during the days! I sacrificed so much of seeing the sun whilst I was asleep during the day.. never again!
@@starboy5888 Sleep is so important. Sunlight is so important. I’m glad you’re back to days. Did you know that sunlight is needed for your body to convert cholesterol into vitamin d?
Boy when I saw the after dark, missing half your engines training flight Im like:
'What could POSSIBLY go wrong here ?!
Everything unfortunately..and it did
Seems truly sad that a simulation leads to deadly error? Could they not have tried the 1 engine out landing first? then graduate to two out? what a waste...
@@dwightdancy5163
Indeed Dwight - see the date here in this 'Real World - Actual Flight' simulation was 1967 ?
Tragic events like this LED to the development of advanced computer run, gimbal mounted realistic (ground based) safe simulators.
I quite believe that back in the first 2 decades of Airtravel develooment, the airlines just lacked these simulators in either quality or quantity - so they elected to use Real Airliners - with tragic results as this illustrates.
But these tragedies gave impetus to the development of simulators which today SAVE lives.
Yet, real world test accidents still occur:
For example see the Air New Zealand Airbus crash in France that occured over the water claiming (from memory) all 6 or 7 pilots and plane.
ruclips.net/video/70gRGNLG2c0/видео.html
Absolutely tragic event - God rest their Souls.
They say the amazing progress of Aviation safety is written in blood, and benefits many millions unawares.
There's a reason the instructor is that and the trainee is that. One doesn't have the experience. That check captain messed up, straightaway. Killed lots of innocent people... so sad. Nice video, Allec... :)
He couldn't possibly have slept much in the short rest breaks he had, he must have been exhausted 😕
What kind of crazy work/training schedule is that? You'd think they'd want pilots to be well rested and alert.
Yeah, let's work pilots to death literally
OH MY! The Summer of Love. 1967 was my best year ever. I got my driver's license, met my future hubby of now 51 years and was having a blast in high school. I bet I heard of this but paid little attention. 16 years olds have many things on their minds and news was not one of them. I do remember whenever there was a crash someone would say there would be two more in pretty close following. It seemed they came in threes.
I just found an article regarding this crash and most of the 13 victims on the ground were 17 years old, with 13 being the youngest. However, as much as I want to give the link here, the website where I read it is not safe to visit. It's from the website called neworleanspast.
Apparently a group of high school seniors were in the hotel on vacation. 8 girls died in the fire, and had gotten in the shower to survive. Sad.
@@5roundsrapid263 didn't know about this
@@KyoushaPumpItUp bad thing happened yes.to die at 13 or 17
@@5roundsrapid263 Truly sad. There were so many plane crashes in those days.
Trainee to check airman "We're crashing!" Check airman to trainee "Check." Somebody forgot what their primary job was...
nah it's cool, we crashed a bunch in the simulator before!
The personal relationship and perceived equal status is important as you noted. If the Instructor intervened physically, he knew it would be an automatic failure.. Uncomfortable doing all thr paperwork and having to deal with all the gossip behind his back. I'm sure it still happens.. But now they crash a sim.
Almost 17,000 of flight time and he forgot to account for the drag from the flaps. Wow.
Landing gear too.. You’d figure it would be instinctive to add power at their deployment. Fatigue and complacency.
anyone can make mistakes, no matter how expiernced you are
Anybody can mistakes..
Yes of course. But not here, otherwise why were there Instructors and inspectors on board. To make sure they got corrected and not let this happen. It's not a tractor trailer where you can stop and correct. These things fall out of the sky and kill people on the ground and it happened here. What a waste. They should perform these trainings at either military bases or airports with no residences near by.
@@ibrahimf.1619 dude this is the 90s
they dont do training over the city anymore
@@darkendchat7882 This is the nineties?
So it came out in the narrative, but I was going to say, at some point the guy in charge has to say, "My aircraft."
And on the next day, God said, “let there be simulators for engine out training”
Let there not be flight, and there was not flight? ;)
Oddly enough, a simulator was hit by a crashing plane a few years ago, and both sets of pilots died. Bizarre.
@@5roundsrapid263 what a stupid comment
@@kirilmihaylov1934 that was a great comment , even a real sim pilot can die on the job by accident
@@coca-colayes1958 how can he die when that's only a simulator
I was a tractor trailer instructor for both a school and a trucking company and besides having to take more tests then just a instructor for a school I also took extra test for the company and one thing that I had to remember was never to buddy up with the trainee because of exactly what happened with this incident, I even had a student who was a ex-playboy bunny and yes she passed her test with flying colors and was hired by UPS ! She became a excellent driver but I always put what was important first ! I imagine airplanes are way more demanding, I feel so bad for all who lost their lives ! RIP !
I doubt that very many women transitioned from Playboy Bunny to truck driver! She could deliver my package anytime! Great story.
I know next to nothing about planes or flying them, but I found your videos and was so interested in them that you got me reading articles about these incidents and trying to learn how planes work. It is so intriguing reading about how some pilots successfully dealt with strife and frankly I have a newfound respect for how dedicated pilots have to be, cause it is something everyone who flies passenger with trust in their pilot takes for granted. Thank you for shining light on how disasters come to pass and thus showing just how many others don't make those mistakes!
The relationship between trainee pilot and instructor/check pilot was not an unusual situation.
This all seemed a bit light hearted from the start, the use of the word Bud showed a lack of respect for each other. Perhaps that how it was then & it wasn't taken too seriously.
Great production once again, thanks.
I disagree. I think they respected each other a bit too much and the word “bud” showed they didn’t take the serious nature of the training seriously.
There seems to be a lot of conjecture around how 'chummy' they were with eachother, for all we know it had no bearing on the accident and neither of them realised the error
Yes, the word "bud" sure can seem disrespectful. The pilots might have been friends, but in today's world, I have heard teenagers speaking to middle aged men often say "hey bud", sure can be perceived as a slight. .. Language is important.
This accident was a huge marketing tool for my old employer (Evans & Sutherland). E&S was the first company to sell wide-body flight simulators, and orders started rolling in soon after this incident. The "Energy Crisis" of 1973 only helped to seal the deal. As my old boss told me back in 2000 (he had been with the company since its beginning), these two events basically gave E&S a "license to print money."
It was money well-spent.
I did not know E&S did build flight sims. they made excelent visual systems though.
I think the first sims where made by the Link brothers, but there where many companies that builded FFS later.
Flew on a DC8 once from Copenhagen, Denmark to Oslo, Norway. Most cramped flight ever. Especially since we flew on a 747 from Los Angeles to Denmark.
How long were you cramped, 45 minutes or so??
Oh my heart bleeds for you, I flew on a fully loaded stretch DC-8, middle seat, from Travis Air Force Base in Northern California to Saigon in 1968 with no meal service and only water to drink.🙄
Oh, really? And you're attributing the, "Cramped" condition to the type of aircraft, which had the standard single aisle, six seats across configuration? Was it possible that the operator thereof decided to reduce the space between rows of seats in order to accommodate more passengers? DUH!
Wow I guess I ticked off the DC8 fan club geeks. LOL!
The 'too chummy' relationship may have been partly the result of these guys being military flyers together.
A surmisal on my part but back then Id guess prob 85% of Airlines recruited from the Services.
That would explain the Check Captains to Trainee's fatal overconfidence in each other that cancelled out what they together left undone: timely corrective (lifesaving) inputs !
RIP to all the Victims.
Your simulated sound is dead on. Loud and shrill like 707s & DC-8s were. I was only a kid back then but I remember this crash.
They should never have done training flights at night over populated areas like that. The loss of all those lives on the ground should tell them that.
I don’t remember hearing about this crash before but I’ve flown in and out of that airport dozens of times. As the video showed the plane taking off I was thinking why would Delta have a training flight THERE? Unless you were practicing how to crash without hitting a residential area
Another horrible tragedy caused by a "training flight" was PSA 182. Why a hooded (blind, essentially) Cessna pilot would be training in a heavy airline traffic Airport area is beyond me. Training flights ages ago were on uncontrolled grass strips in the middle of nowhere. Why that changed is a mystery.
@@NickDalzell I remember PSA 182 like yesterday. The crash was bad enough but it could have even been worse if it hit a school or any place of large gathering. In Arizona where I'm from at least there is a lot of desert away from populated areas that they can do training flights.
DIFFERENT TIME everybody..... training in actual aircraft was the normal FIFTY FOUR years ago....
Not only that, duty time was different as rest periods were and simulators were not that fancy in those days....not very popular...CRM wasn't even a word at the time and all that added up.
Six guys on board and between engineers, captains, co-pilots and instructors no one was really paying attention to what was happening, no one was monitoring properly and taking the necessary actions....so sad.
And that's what's great about today's simulators.
I wonder how the deaths on the ground were justified or if that type of training was taken elsewhere.
Right. That seems a very dangerous thing to be doing. Especially sad for all the people on the ground who were killed.
A saver aviation environment has been achieved, in the face of tragedies like these. Thats about the only good part of this mess.
Truly tragic. My grandpa was one of the engineers on that flight, but I obviously never got to meet him. Thank you for the in depth look! I’ve recently been scrounging around for information about the crash, and the simulation was amazing.
A residential area 700 meters in front of an approach? Wow...where do I sign?!
I once considdered buing a house 200 yards from the threshhold...... Couln't realy afford it, certainly can't now.
....and at night for further risk factors...
I once almost bought a house just in front of touch down zone. However more (richer) people took it.
What often happens is that they build the airport way out in the middle of BF Egypt and for one reason or another, it attracts business to the area and that draws people.
I looked at images of MSY when it was first built. The nearest houses were miles away. The same thing happened to the two nearest airports to me that handle commercial traffic
Considering this was before motion sims, training was done in the jet. I've watched Delta do trg at MEM many years ago and seen smoke pouring out of one side. Hindsight is always 20/20 but it seems unbelievable that the LCA didn't give him back the other 2 engines and go do it again. I had the accident report of this in the late 60s and wondered the same then. Considering that even today in modern sims you are still not allowed to take a botched maneuver all the way to a crash. We were always told it's not good for the sim and the sim instructor would freeze the motion and tell you "let's go do that again".
@matchpoint Nope, I retired from another airline but nonetheless when the LCA sees that the pilot has exceeded the required parameters for the maneuver and making no progress correcting them then it's time to stop regroup and try again. You don't let it continue until you die.
@matchpoint Disregarding smaller GA accidents the mentality of that time was to load you up with problems to the breaking point. Case in point, when I got my ATP I was using a KingAire C-90. The designee had me fly an engine out approach to a back course loc using partial panel instruments. I managed to pull it off but looking back by today's standards it was silly. If you read Fate Is The Hunter by Ernest Gann there's a moment when he's flying a very difficult approach and the instructor starts lighting matches and putting them in front of his face to simulate a fire.
As to not crashing the sim - it depends. Newer sims have better logic to prevent abuse of the sim. In some cases letting the student crash is rightly considered negative training, in others it serves to underscore the impact of poor decision making. Certain LOFTs would be a good example - I’ve watched crews make a series of bad decisions, progressively painting themselves into a corner (I even tried to help them and give them an out), but they stubbornly stuck with their bad plan. They crashed because they created their own bad situation (which could have still worked), and then lost control during a low visibility, high crosswind landing (dust storm at an airport the LOFT was never intended to take them to). I felt that they had earned that one on their own. It made for a sobering but good debrief.
As to not giving him back the two idled engines - I 110% agree, that was unforgivable. You never let a trainee take you somewhere you are 110% certain you can recover from if they mess it up.
@@bradcrosier1332 Not sure how much newer they are now than when I retired in 2012 but I'm sure they haven't been replaced. Maybe it was trg. dept policy to freeze the sim before a crash. not sure how crashing would be any more sobering. You can bet you're going to do the maneuver again. doing it again isn't terrible but a 3 rd time is.
@@robertvaughn6646 - It does depend on the sim vintage and manufacturer. Most of the sims I was in were less than a decade old.
Again, it depends on what your training and the trainees level of awareness of what they are doing. In some cases there is a significant benefit to letting events run their course. Again, I’m not talking about one V1 cut, or someone in at the beginning of initial - but if you paint yourself into a corner on a LOFT, yes. And in that case it’s not just rest and do it again, it’s you’re done - consider what your next of kin are going to see in the media. Are you happy with the decisions you made? I’m not talking about training maneuvers (which is usually the least of our problems), but rather judgement and decision making. If I were in the sim watching the scenario in the video evolve (with an LCA in the right seat doing training as in the video) - I would ABSOLUTELY let them red screen, then sit there in silence for a minute or so before asking the LCA _WHY_ they thought their course of action was correct - since they just killed everyone on board with their inactions.
Interesting that my very first flight on a Delta DC-8 was from New Orleans to Atlanta back in mid 1975, for our class (DECA) trip to south Florida for the national convention near Miami.
Back then, there were no sims in which to do this training, Delta lost three jets on training flights, a
CV 880 on ATL, this DC 8 in MSY, and a DC 9 in Dallas. If I remember correctly, the cause of this accident was the failure of the engineer to turn on the rudder boost, or rudder boost failure.
A couple of errors in the film, TO was made with the flaps set to full, should be 15, and the two engines were cut right after takeoff, it would have crashed right away.
This aircraft crashed into a motel while a bunch of school kids were staying there, sad.
Thanks for the video Allec, marvelous as usual.
1:30 so Jeter was supervising piazza? Wow Mike piazza and Jeter working together, cool
Hi! Another great video! I am always anxious for the new ones- I am watching reruns, patiently waiting for the next new one...and the next...and the next.........☺
This was truly a very fine and informative video Mr. Allec and it goes to show us that even very experienced pilots can make mistakes. It's heartbreaking that not only were the pilots and engineers killed but also innocent people on the ground. Thank you for continuing to give us these videos I realize you work very hard on them.
Another great video, thanks! I don't know if you go back as far as World War 2, but if so, there are a couple of stories you might want to look at, when Army Air Force bombers crashed at two different locations in or near Memphis TN, a few weeks apart in the spring of 1944. A B-24 crashed near the town of Millington, north of Memphis, close to an ammunition plant. The one survivor was, I believe, the tailgunner who bailed out. There was also a B-25 which crashed into a midtown Memphis neighborhood, narrowly missing a school and several businesses before striking a house, killing the crew and four people in the house. Thanks again for another interesting video.
There were many military crashes in the US during WW2. Here in rural Iowa, we had a neighbor who was a pilot of a B-25. On a practice flight he buzzed his parents home about 3 miles away but got too low and left the tail in a tree top. They tried to gain enough altitude to bail out but never got over 200 feet. Crashed in a field and burned. 6 killed.
@@MrTruckerf Yep, people don't realize how often that happened during the war. The B-25 story here in Memphis is similar in that two of the three men on board were from Memphis...the third was from Dallas. Witnesses thought the pilot tried to avoid crashing in a neighborhood, but that's speculative, since reportedly there was no communication with the plane's crew immediately before the crash.
I found another channel did a video of this crash, but with a narration as Allec has tried in the past. Didn't care for it a bit. Keep doing these videos how you're doing them Allec, you do a great job!
I LOVE Flying [I have since I was 5-years old] & I've flown in all manner of aircraft! At 60 years young, I've flown all over the world & vividly remember my first flight (w/ my Maternal Grandad!) SAV-ATL was on 1971 on a Delta DC-8. The flight had to circle/pattern around Atlanta/ATL for just over 1-Hour ~ it was a GIFT FROM HEAVEN For ME..!!! My Grandad slept the entire time. Yep, Grandad's ARE Like THAT! Right? :-) God Bless ALL American PATRIOTS...!!!!
At the time I’m commenting, I am currently on a flight to Chicago on a United Express plane. Wish me luck that my plane won’t crash.
I was going to say congratulations, you made it but I now notice your comment is 1 minute old. So … good luck. I’ll keep an eye on the news for any crashes.
Update: There is a million aircraft flying in Chicago right now, so they put us on what is called a “ground stop”, which means I’m gonna have to wait another 45 minutes before takeoff.
I flew into Chicago to catch a connecting flight. I have vowed to never set foot there again. A huge storm had just moved through and it was utter chaos.
@@SMaamri78 interesting story
I’m now taking off. Wish me luck!!!!!!
Classic example of rudder authority loss due speed below VMC. Full power on one side and crash.
It was pilot mistake
@@kirilmihaylov1934 yes, the mistake was as described by Adam W above.
I don't understand how 2 pilots with a combined 38,000 hours in the air can forget how to land an airplane. Instead of pushing the throttles up the captain raises the nose. Did he forget which is which?
A question which can never be answered.
I was only 10 years old when this crash happened, but even as a kid, accidents like this you don't forget, especially when you live in one of the near-by suburbs. This was the worst plane crash in the New Orleans area (actually Kenner) until the 1982 Pan Am Flight 759 disaster, which also occurred in Kenner, La., where the airport is located.
Addendum- There actually was another serious plane crash that occured outside New Orleans in 1964, look up history of Eastern Flight 304. The plane crashed into Lake Pontchartrain, closer to the Mandeville side of the lake, killing all 58 on board. There is even a 2/25/14 story from the Times-Picayune that takes a look back at the history of the disaster.
There s big diferencie in sim and real life trainning. The are still Flight trainning in some countries on real life emergency procedures. Even on the US.
Yes a lot of people wil cave under pressure
Yet countries where all emergency training is in the sim have excellent safety records.
Allec..thank you.
Man, something where justa little more rest and authority would've more likely made the difference. What a shame.......Good job with the video tho my friend 👍
Two hall of famers and one future HOF'er
That's the way my mother recalled it God rest her soul
You don't drop the flaps down that low on two engines. And you don't continue with a doomed approach. You abandon the training and save your and others' lives by powering up the idling engines again. Atrocious.
How many hours do you have on the DC8 Nick?
@@philmenzies2477 0
@@philmenzies2477 How many does he need?
@@philmenzies2477 Nick's assessment is correct. No need to be snotty. 19000 hours of flight time and crashes during a training mission.
Well done Allec sir. Another Great AiR Disaster Video.
Very horrifying to see that all on board (+ the 13 on the ground) were killed because of the small rest period from Captain Morton. With the fatigue of the pilots, the plane crashed. Very horrifying. RIP to all on board who died.
I flew DC-8's for many years. On a two engine approach you're committed to the runway when the gear comes out. Any four engine jet doing a two engine approach is an energy management exercise. If you get slow and start having to add power it can go awry quick. A go around had to be executed by 500 ft. Back when this accident happened and jet fuel was 10 cents a gallon all training was done in the airplane.
@matchpoint Been retired several years. All my flying now is low and slow in my Aeronca.
I was living in NOLA back then and remember it well it went down in Kenner not too far from the airport and went through many houses then crashed into a Hotel that was near the end of the runway.
Attitude is everything.
It's no wonder they invented flight simulators. If you flunk at least you don't die with all on-board!
I think you can make Air France flight 66, it's the same thing as Qantas 32 but different kind of engine failure
Great report! Did they ever find the Check Pilots clipboard and determine what the final grade was, along with the weak points? And what did the FAA guy onboard jot down in his notes?
They did. The check captain's final entry was "Trainee pilot appears to not be factoring in the drag from the fl"
My mother was the pbx operator that night at the Hilton inn when that happened i didn't get any sleep because of all the lights we lived close to the airport
HEY ALEC, HOW ABOUT A VIDEO ABOUT THE BOMBING OF UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 629?
On November 1st, 1955, United Airlines flight 629 (AKA "Mainliner Denver"), a multi stop flight starting in New York with stops in Chicago, Denver, Portland, and ending in Seattle took off from Denver's Stapleton Airport. The plane was a McDonnell Douglas DC-6.
About 16 minutes after takeoff, the plane heading north began turning to the west. It was approaching the town of Longmont when a massive explosion blew the plane apart!
Fiery pieces of aircraft and luggage fell and littered a sugar beet field.
All 39 passengers and 5 crew members were killed. (The youngest victim was a toddler traveling with his mother to visit his father, aU.S. military officer in Japan).
At first, the horrible incident was believed to be an accident.
But, as investigators examined the pieces, they found the evidence showed the explosion came from a small point of origin. They also determined the explosion was too powerful to have been from a fuel tank.
Chemical tests showed residue of dynamite was on various pieces.
The FBI began questioning family members of the victims.
One man, John Gilbert Graham, the adult son of passenger Daisy King kept coming up as suspicious.
Soon, the investigators pinpointed the origin of the explosion. It came from the suitcase of Daisy King!
The FBI also learned of a pending Life insurance claim filed by Graham. He had purchased the travelers life insurance policy from a vending machine at Stapleton Airport.
The FBI arrested Graham, and after hours of interrogation, he admitted to planting the 20+ sticks of dynamite in his mother's suitcase.
He explained he held resentment toward his mother from childhood when she abandoned him at an orphanage.
Graham was tried for 44 counts of Murder.
He was found guilty, and sentenced to death.
On January 11, 1957, He was executed in the Colorado State Prison Gas chamber.
I have done many many many of the same exercise on the FFS and recognize the situation.
What struggles me is the shear amount of experience which would make this kind of training almost a formality.
It's just not difficult, but one needs to be verry precies on a jet like this one.
The remark, "keep the ball in the middle" certainly should not have been mentioned and shows in an early the pilot flying had the situation not under control (given the experience almost imposible).
What strugs me again, is the fact that the training captain did not intervene. yes it might agrivate the PF but they still would be alive.
Also keep in mind both left engines where just idling, and when the situation got bad could have been opened up.
As Alec states, it is verry likely both pilots suffered from fatique.
btw: it is unclear to me what both pilots did fly before the DC-8, this migth be relevant.
You can simulate a single engine out in flight, but a two engine out approach should only be done in the simulator.
This was 1967.
Always very instructive videos. Great job, Alex🙂
I think the video pictures Flaps 35 during the takeoff. The normal takeoff flap was 25 degrees for most airlines. When we picked up a DC8-51 from Delta in 1977 they used 15 degrees. The video shows a simulated #1 Engine failure at V1 which would be a normal training practice. The video then shows a simulated failure of #2 Engine a few seconds later. That would never be done and nothing in the accident report said it was done. I could see the check airman failing a second engine at pattern altitude and the flaps selected Up. Different airlines have different procedures but most places I flew the DC8 there was a commit height before landing flaps were selected. The manual I still have said it was 200’-400’ AGL for landing flaps, but flaps 25 was recommended with sufficient runway. The check airman caused the crash by selecting landing flaps at 650’ and not informing the trainee.
Nice job Alec. Just check the landing lights. They are retracted and on all the time.
Crashed into the Hilton Hotel in New Orleans (Kenner), United States while on a training flight. Of 19 fatalities 13 were on the ground
tks for the 411. this is the first time i've head of this crash. i thought it was going to be about the one that went down in the lake.
That’s horrendous. Imagine being in your hotel room, getting ready to turn in for the night... I trust they didn’t know what hit them.😩
@@karronlaneNOLA Me too. I grew up nearby and never heard about this one. The plane that went into the lake was in 1964.
@@5roundsrapid263 same, i was really surprised. so there are three crashes for nola. this one, the lake, and the wind shear on takeoff from the airport. any others you know about? tks for your response.
@@karronlaneNOLA A flight lost both engines in 1988. It flew into a storm, and hail destroyed the fan blades. It was going to ditch in the river, when the pilot saw a long grassy levee. He landed it, and everyone survived. It was right in front of the NASA Michoud facility!
I live near and have worked at moisant. This one is largely forgotten. And so is eastern airlines flight 304, another DC-8 that crashed into lake ponchartrain in February 1964
Hadn't heard of this one. Thank you for the information.
Watson, Piazza, Jeter, Posey, Morton. An All-Star lineup.
I remember this accident. I lived only 3.5 miles from the airport at the time of the crash. The aircraft hit the back of the Hilton Hotel. There was also some one on the aircraft that was connected with the investigation of President Kennedy’s assignation. If I remember right he was a witness about to testify.
My late father, God rest his soul, was a pilot. He always said it: the most dangerous thing you can do behind the stick is fly low and slow. Because then you have neither a cushion of recovery altitude nor a cushion of recovery speed. (Which, BTW, has much to do with why there have been so many airshow crashes over the years.)
Here's a crazy idea: why not practice landings with multiple engine failures at 12000 feet instead of at 2000 feet?
Just saying...
Good morning to all from SE Louisiana 21 Jun 22.
Good thing flight simulators became the norm
This kind of training was bound to give death far better odds.......painful
Hey another great show,,,thanks
As a non-pilot, I just don't understand how pilots can let the airspeed drop so precipitously and not put on power. Even if it is to end the simulation and add power back to the idled engines for a go around. But inattention to airspeed seems to be a problem that occurs in some crashes.
As a private GA pilot, I agree. All that needed to happen was for either pilot to have “taken charge” and added power to the idled engines. But deference and passivity is a human condition that has lead to many fully functional aircraft being flown into the ground. Exact same as the Teterboro Learjet accident Allec posted recently..
@@65SATisfaction Allec's vid was one I was thinking about. Several incidents he has dramatized are exacerbated or caused by inattention to airspeed.
Overload and fixation on other things is how it happens. This is especially true if the crew is fatigued. Flying a plane is easy for a professional crew, until it isn't. Then it can get very busy and very difficult really quick. What a crew does in those critical moments makes all the difference whether it be by luck, skill or both.
@@jonesjones7057 I can understand that. But this crew in particular was practicing a reduced power landing and was aware of the unusually low airspeed and still didn't do enough. I guess you just have to have some experience in the seat to understand.
82ND AIRBORNE
All that experience...now everybody is Dead.
That was in 1967. FAA made a regulation making it illegal to crash airplanes. That's why since then there haven't been any crashes
Never and I mean never turn into a failed engine or worse two failed. That is a down on any type ride and should not be allowed in any context except at a safe altitude to show what not to do. Not a Bob Hoover routine. Could not believe what I was seeing.
Similar thing happened in Atlantic City International Airport in my wonderful state of New Jersey it was in the sixties as well it was a n 07 I believe
Вы гордость Ютуба ❤️вы профи
Fatigue kills, they knew that. Negligent.
Beautiful Vmc Air demo......again.....and with two good engines at idle.
I love how you still use Microsoft Flight Simulator ‘98.
Nice work Allec
Hi,can you do Malaysia airline MH653 crash in 4 Disember 1977
Aircraft type:Boeing 737-200
Fatalities:100 people
Crash site:Tanjung Kupang,Johor,
Malaysia.
Cause:Hijacking
Reason of hijacking:unknown
Hijackers:unknown
This crash remains a mystery
I hope you do it
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Never heard of it
@@kirilmihaylov1934 Many people in Malaysia also don't know about the crash.
@@muhammadidlanhazimazrin9936 what happened
They were trying to get to Singapore for some strange reason
@@kirilmihaylov1934 Well,
In the evening of 4 disember 1977,MH653 was schedule to fly from Penang internasional airport to Subang internasional airport (Now being called as Sultan Abdul Aziz Shah airport).
Just after 7:24 pm,MH653 depart from Penang internasional airport.In
command is Captain G.K Ganjoor and First officer Kamaruzaman Jali.The flight is carrying 100 people.73 people are Malaysian while the others are foreigner.
While on approach to subang,the flight had been hijacked by a group of hijacker.The Hijackers tell the captain to cut the radio but captain had already declare an emergency.
Knowing about the captain action,the hijacker tell the captain to fly to singapore.The other flight on the runway waiting the MH653 to land is curious then ask 'what is your
problem?'.Captain G.k Ganjoor tell to
the controller 'we had hijacker on board!!''.The controller want fight 653 to land at subang,but captain G.K Ganjoor rufuse and said ' We are
proceeding to singapore'
And then 40 minutes later,the flight is crusing altitude at 21000 feet over
state of johor.There's a argument between the hijackers and the flight crew.The hijackers are angry because
the captain had expose their location where they want to go.
And then the flight crew contact the singapore approach controller to guide them to land at Paya Lebar internasional airport.
The approach controller then give clearence to decend to flight level 15000 feet.Then captain then replied 'Cleared to 15 thousand feet,MH 653'.Two second later, two gun shot sound can be hear in the radio before the controller lost radio contact of the flight.
Fearing the worst scenario,the controller then declared an amergency that a plane had been missing over Tanjung kupang,Johor,Malaysia.
Meanwhile,villages from nearby Tanjung Kupang tell to the police officer at local police station that they heard a explosion coming from the swam area.The police also been informed that there's a plane that missing over tanjung kupang.
The police and rescue team then conducted a search and rescue at the swam area when they found the wreakage of MH 653.The flight crash nose first to the ground and all body of the passengers are cannot being undentified.
There's many thories about the hijacking.But all of them cannot been comfirmed.
The reason of the hijacking and the indentity of the hijackers still remains a mystery.
They could have pushed the other two thrust levers up at the onset of the loss of directional control. Hindsight is often 20/20
Naw. Those old jet engines took like 20 seconds to go from idle to real power. They probably didn't have 20 seconds.
They couldn’t have achieved a worse result by giving it a go. Air New Zealand lost a DC8 in the 60s in a similar training accident. This is why they now have simulators.
I guess thank God for simulators these days.
I still don't understand why he didn't apply rudder and max power to engine # 1 &2 to level
That was the point off the simulation. No power in two engines. But the check pilot should have called it off when it appeared things were going bad. He failed to do so.
@@SMaamri78 Yeah, if it looked like it was getting too dangerous I'd have gone ahead and powered up engines 1 & 2 and used the controls to level off. But at some point it becomes too late to save the plane.
We’ll always know WHAT happened, but never WHY?
Date Of Accident : March 30, 1967 (57 Years Ago)
When you learn to drive a car the instructor has a set of controls to intervene when danger is materialising!
At some point, the Instructor Pilot has to say "EFF this, training is over, this is real life and cob the power on the two "dead" engines and try again.
Also, turning into TWO "dead" engines??
Exactly what was on my mind, when the speed dropped under 160, captain in fact failed the test. Full power on left engines and get the hell out of it anx try again.
Way back in WWII Jimmy Doolittle showed the USAAF that you can turn into the dead engine(s) as long as you have sufficient airspeed. I have a lot of experience landing 4-engine jets on 3 engines and on 2 and 1 engines in the simulator, as well as observing others, and I don't remember anyone ever saying don't turn into the dead engines. What I do remember is everyone paying very close attention to airspeed and energy management.
Two perfectly good engines, set at idle, but neither "captain" thought to make use of them, to fly out of the problem.
SMH
I love your channel. It’s fascinating and you do a terrific job. Two requests if you don’t mind:
1) Would you consider making titles that don’t reveal or suggest the outcome of the flight? Some don’t but some do. I would prefer to find out as I watch.
2) Is there any way to make it so that no comments appear unless someone clicks to see the comments? Very often, the one featured comment that is displayed (I don’t know if it’s because it’s the most popular or just the first one) is a spoiler that gives away the outcome of the flight. It would be nice to be able to watch without already knowing from the start what happens at the end.
100% to both of your requests. I don’t want to know the outcome either.
The noob express
[edit: ironically the noobs had nothing to do with this disturbing crash]
@Morgan Brown what is a noob?
Entirely too many "rookies" on one airplane.
@@shannonrutledge8872 according to my pre-teen niece, it's supposed to be short for "newbie". Otherwise, I'd have no idea. Have a nice day.
I think if I was the FFA guy id tell em I can watch that 2 engine out thingy from the parking lot,I brought my binoculars.
"... it is obvious that his actual rest period was minimal." This is a great example of a bad sentence from a writer who was trying to sound smart instead of trying to write a clear sentence. It should have been "... it is obvious that he hadn't gotten enough sleep." It is almost always true that if you can rephrase something with simpler, clearer words, you should rephrase it with simpler, clearer words. Do not try to sound smart because you will fail.
they had a relaxed atmosphere yeah they did fuckall
Hi I am your biggest fan and your vids is nice
The public should know that some airlines treat their pilots and crew like sweatshop workers.
Allec
Have you ever heard of the may 1968 Blue Angels phantom jet crash in KC into a home .
It is a odd and puzzling tale, I was the only Eye witness
Great 👍 video. Rip Amen 🙏🏻.
"Virtue Signaling by posting RIP all over the internet while doing actually nothing to better the world.
Social media narcissism at its finest."