Here's my kinda weird build for a gnomish artificer: the rigger, or drone swarm artificer. He's an artillerist artificer with a homunculus servant, so that's two minions on the field. When I hit 5th level I'll take the magic initiate feat to get the Find Familiar spell. That gives me a total of three remote minions woth various functions.
@@locusofintentYes though I've seen some DMs say they don't allow it because "you can't use your infusions for scrolls and the tattoos are basically scrolls but better. "
@@Nyundaa Those DMs need to stop being killjoys. Not allowing something that's creative and plausible, simply because of a technicality via your interpretation. That's just bad manners.
I would like to add that if you’re a small race, mounted combatant is awesome for a batttle smith. At level 10, you could infuse your steel defender with winged boots, giving yourself an awesome mount to ride and chase after your flying target.
A thing you could ad to the ranged alchemist is Tavern brawler and perhaps even a multiclass into rogue thief for fast hands. This way you can start tossing acid vials/alchemist fire in your bonus action. Works also with sneak attack/sharpshooter and archery.
Umm... you misspoke I believe Guardian Armorer - Thunder Gauntlets - if you hit the baddy has disadvantage on anyone who ISN'T you... they don't have disadvantage on you As written: Each of the armor’s gauntlets counts as a simple melee weapon while you aren’t holding anything in it, and it deals thunder damage on a hit. A creature hit by the gauntlet has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other than you until the start of your next turn, as the armor magically emits a distracting pulse when the creature attacks someone else.
As for the artillerist recommendations, i had build a bardificer who was a rock and roll style of character. He called himself the roaring demon, where the only thing that were more fire than his verses were the flames he commanded. He wielded a magical version of an electric guitar that would launch his missile-type spells from the end, which served as his focus for both classes as well as his future Arcane Firearm. If you have played No Straoght Roads, think of Mayday’s guitar. His Eldritch cannons would double as his sound system as well as his standard turrets, making for cool pyrotechnic displays as well as the Protector Cannom being related to the bard aspect of him. I went with lore to not only extend his skill set as well as access some other utility magical secret spells.
For the guardian armorer i use a complete diferent set of feats. Tough for increase a low pool of Hp (d8s). Movile to avoid oportunity attacks and increase reach through the battlefield ,and heavy armor master to decrease damage taken.
If your DM allows you to change feats, Heavy Armor Master is a fantastic feat at low levels (which honestly should scale with PB). If you're looking for defense for a higher level swap, there's good ole Resilient (Wisdom).
@@AnaseSkyrider it's good at high levels too. I don't know many creatures that do magical BPS. And I would just house rule that if you have magical armor then it would apply to magical BPS. And a flat 3 negation adds up.
@@dragonhearthx8369 The problem is that damage die and bonuses to damage scale way faster than multi-attack does, so the relative damage reduction it provides goes down very quickly with levels. PB-scaling, or adding magic armor bonuses to the reduction, would be good improvements, though.
Hey man speaking of artificer, I’ve always wanted to see if there was a viable build for artificer/rogue multi class. Having a higher level artificer and maybe 3 levels in rogue. Using the artificer magic items to support your stealth and rogue abilities. I’d love to see your thoughts on this
I'd personally have a lot of fun with three levels of Thief Rogue so I could use my bonus action to douse someone in oil and then use fire damage on them :P I don't know of a combination that has a crazy synergy, but there are useful tools to gain. I have an article about Artificer multiclassing ideas that talks about how Artificers can gain a lot from dipping one or two levels into Rogue. Artificers can also gain some fun options from three Rogue levels for the subclass. (www.flutesloot.com/artificer-multiclassing-dnd-5e/)
For a Rogue multiclass dip, the two biggest questions a player has to ask themselves are: 1. Is the adventure going to Level 20? If not, how high is it going? 2. If you're going to Level 20, then are you willing to lose out on your later abilities, as an Artificer, in exchange for the skills/abilites you'd pick up from multiclassing? To give you a side by side comparison, here's what you'd lose multiclassing 3 levels of Rogue: ...Loss of one Level 5 Spell Slot for Artificer ...Loss of an ASI at Level 19 as an Artificer ...Loss of Soul of Artifice at Level 20 ...Loss of Magic Item Master at Level 18 And for going Rogue, here's what you'd pick up: ...Light Armor prof. (swap for a Tool) ...Thieves' Tools prof. (swap for a 2nd Tool) ...one skill from the Rogue skill list ...Thieves' Cant ...Sneak Attack (to a max of 2d6) ...Skill Expertise in 2 skills ...Cunning Action ...Rogue subclass of your choice ...The Steady Aim Optional Rule (if the DM allows it) And so, here're my takeaways: A. The Artificer's base class abilities are severely rear-loaded. Many of the best abilities with the Artificer stem from levels 18 through 20, as I noted above. B. If the adventure you're running in is a module, then that module probably has a level cap, which will often be in the low tier 3's (sometimes high tier 2). In these instances, it may be worth it to you to multiclass out, but the caveat to that is that it also depends in-part on your Artificer specialty, and in-part based on who else is in your party. In the case of the Armorer, if you're planning on mainly being an artificer, then I wouldn't multiclass out until after level 5, which is when you get extra attack. As for Rogue subclasses in specific, the Arcane Trickster is a slam dunk here. The biggest hinderance normally to an Arcane Trickster normally is their typically low Int. Score. In the case of the Artificer, however, that's not really a drawback at all here. Mage Hand Ledgermain grants some neat stuff here, plus you get 2 extra Wizard cantrips (which the Artificer badly lacks), and 3 extra spells (two of which must be Illus./Ench.). As an alternative to the Arcane Trickster, the Soulknife would be a runner-up due to their abilities, and their Psionic Dicepool scaling with your PB. TL;DR: In a module where the adventure ends at high tier 2 or low tier 3, and in a party where Rogue skills are lacking in any way or form, I'd say pick up Rogue for Arcane Trickster. (Maybe the Soulknife.)
3 levels of rogue for thief subclass really sounds interesting combo for alchemist honestly. Not for traditional thief things, though you would be decent as a backup rogue once you get expertise with tools, but for the fast hands feature which lets you use items or sleight of hand as a bonus action. Using potions or even healing kits without giving up your main action, extra useful with the healer feat either to pick up an ally or double heal with cure wounds.
@@Kolohe_Senpai, you're correct on that, and that can be done. A multiclass half-elf Artificer (armorer)/Rogue (arcane trickster), operating on a 5/15 build split build, favoring the Rogue, could spike the Sneak Attack damage through the roof. Feat progression would most likely include: Elven Accuracy, Fighting Initiate: Archery, Sharpshooter, and maybe either Lucky or Elemental Adept (Lightning). A variant on this idea is 5/2/1/12 split build of Artificer (Armorer) 5/Wizard 2 (Chronurgy) 2/Fighter 1/Rogue (Arcane Trickster) 12. Same feats apply as before.
Duel wielder is worth considering for Armorer because the effect of the gauntlets is uniquely good and it might be worth tagging the debuff on multiple enemies, even if you aren’t able to use a shield or do ability score damage on the extra attack.
That's a good point where it may be worth tagging multiple enemies without juggling a shield. After all, shields require an action to equip, so it's good to find other things to do when equipping a shield isn't a desired use of time.
I like telekinesis on an infiltrator armorer, you end up with a fun bonus action and mage hand is awesome non combat utility. First, you can push the person you want to shoot if they are in your melee range to remove disadvantage. 2nd you can pull any downed friends out of melee range if someone needs to touch heal them or force feed them a healing potion. 3rd, with Tasha's Caustic Brew and/or bonefire you can push/pull enemies into some fun area effects you put down. If you have a druid with you with thorn whip (they can also have some fun area of effect spells to boot) and your front liner has sentinel, all the more throwing them through stuff fun and your front liner is sticky so they have a hard time reaching you. Outside of potentially 1 area of effect cast at the beginning (if your ally doesn't first or there isn't something to begin with) you are still shooting away at your enemies as per usual, so it works well for me in this kit. Toss in a Fey Touched at some point so when they do get to you and you can't position well to keep ping ponging them through it, you blink to a different spot and the fun begins a new. Sharpshooter and lucky are nice other feats, I like to have extra spells too though, so from there, if I am playing this way, it depends on party composition.
Fantastic ideas! Telekinesis is a fun feat that received a lot of hype when it came out, but it hasn't been utilized as much as Fey Touched, at least as far as I can tell.
Not sure if this has been said. But you need the 2 weapon fighting style AND the duel wielder feat to use the thunder gauntlets. Although I think a homebrew rule saying that the gauntlets are light and you get the 2 weapon fighting style when you get this subclass is perfectly fine.
For Guardian Armorer, Shield Master has proven to be a pretty nice choice, add the Enhanced Defence infusion to you're shield and you have a min. +4 on your DEX saves.
I agree, Shield Master is a great bonus for Armorer. Last session I got the shove to prone Athletics check to work (nat 20) against a in flight dragon (Enlarged gnome + campaign specific item Enlarge stacking FTW).
I'm a solid fan of picking up magic initiate for an artillerist the extra cantrips are very useful as most of the time I end up just using cantrips once I run out of spells also find familiars very useful
I kinda wonder if building with Int as your main stat is a trap for artificers--we don't usually build other half-casters around their spell casting stat, like rangers usually go wisdom and paladins strength. Part of the problem is that unlike Hexblade with Cha, you can't use Int for weapon attacks on artificer until level 3. I tried a Dex based Infiltrator armor build and it worked pretty well, just taking spells that don't require saves or attacks and instead boost yourself, like Spiderclimb. Toss on a level of fighter for archery style, a level of rogue on a goblin for hide advantage (or 3 levels of rogue Scout on an elf/half-elf with Elven Accuracy), and Sharpshooter and you can do pretty well. Part of the problem with artificers is also that they do not get fighting styles and have only d8 hitpoints, so they have the martial combat weaknesses of full casters, and the low spell slots of half-casters.
I started a Armorer Artificer last week, we started at level 7 because the old group we played had that level. As the first Feat I choosed Fey touched, for the sole reason that it generally fitted to the character since he's a Harengon and since Harengon came originally from the Feywilds I just saw it as fitting. What we already know is that we will never grow higher than level 12 until the end of the campaign. So I can only choose 3 times if I want a Feat or an ASI, rn my Int is at 18 through one point from Fey touched and the plus 2 you could set wherever you wanted since the races don't have fixed values anymore. I do want to get Int to 20 so I at least need one ASI. Other Stats are: (Standard Array) Strengh 8 (but I don't have a negative midfier because of Stone of good luck) Dexterity 12 Constitution 14 Intelligence 18 Wisdom 14 Charisma 10 Have to see what I'll take for the last Feat/ASI, the role my character plays is Tank so mostly as Guardian. So he is a 3 foot small Ironbunny xD
Another good feat for the Artificer is from its source book. Aberrant DragonMark. :+1 con is welcomed on any caster, and with 2/4 of the subclass martial capable, a nice increase in HP. Being able to pick up a cantrip and 1st level spell from the sorcerer's list that acts like pact magic (short rest recharge) is very useful. Nevermind the optional rules nonsense you can abuse 😁 Speaking of Warlocks, I also picked up Eldric adept, and played it off a " bionic infusion"
With the newest Critical Role book, Tal'Dorei Reborn that came out. Remarkable Recovery feat is amazing; especially, after you reach level 10. Take the Replicate Item Infusion and choose Periapt of Wound Closure. Every time you get knocked down on your turn you get up again. 'Tubthumping' Song by Chumbawamba becomes your theme song.
Gift of Alacrity!!! Ooo!!! I haven't heard of this amazing spell thank you. So what I was thinking until I watched this was talking Alert then Fey Touched & Magic Initiate to grab Eldridge blast and hex. But alas if my bonus action is in conflict... The Alchemist never sat right with me. I never looked past level 1 simply because if I were a mad scientist I couldn't have a clue about engineering I'd be a chemist. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd want to play just a chemist and I'd forgo a lot of options making my character unless the first 3 levels. And so I'd just assume play a character with an alchemy kit and take Tavern brawler to throw my chemicals fairy well. LOL Maybe use a rogue build instead. But thanks for the insight. Oh and I'm going with a Tabaxi-kitsune. I love Rocket from Gardians. This is my dnd version.
Gift of Alacrity is a solid spell option for Fey Touched! Those feats all sound great. Playing as Rocket sounds like a good time! Btw, I have a video all about the Thief Rogue and playing it like an alchemist that you may enjoy for brainstorming your character: ruclips.net/video/WXr-CL-8gjk/видео.html
Guardian Armorer might want Mobile feat to be able to hit multiple targets with Thunder Gauntlets giving multiple targets disadvantage without getting hit with opportunity attacks.
No feats on my artillerist yet but plan on fey touched and resilient (wisdom) at 12 and 16, assuming the campaign makes it that far. Get a +1 to wisdom as a result and saving throw proficiency, can't complain.
Armorer Experience: I went from level 1 to being level 14 with Dual Wielder and I have some opinions. With 27 AC at level 14, the 1 AC point just isn't worth the Feat slot, unless you're planning to keep your AC under 24. Most attacked got around a 23 at highest, or if it did hit me, it was criticals or 30+ on a roll.
A really good pick for Infiltrator Armor Artificers is Medium Armor Master because you can get up to an AC of 20 with the right infusions and a shield and have advantage add stealth checks
Yeah, it turns regular Stealth rolls into advantage with the Arcane Armor and it gives +1 AC if you have 16 Dex. I don't think I'd pick it over other options, but I see the appeal. I'd be tempted if my party enjoyed sneaky tactics.
@@FlutesLoot OMG I'm so surprised you reacted even when the video is 3 months old. But I have used this on a Armor Artificer 3 Scout Rogue 5 build of main because sneak attack works on the Lightning Launcher form the Infiltrator Armor. It as a lot of synergy. I was a WInged Tiefling so I could fly with Medium Armor. So I made Medium Armor the best it could be. I hope you like the more info I gave here.
Waiting to play an Artificer. but i think the battle smith can definitely benefit from mounted combatant feat if your small. also consider how the infusions can be pros/cons for certain feats. reminder of prerequisite for fighting initiate proficiency with martial weapons. [armorer weapons count as simple]
I haven't really looked through feats I'd want for my gnome alchemist except for magic initiate (choosing the artificer spell list). Not for the 1st lv spell. Just for the extra cantrips, because 2 until level 10 is ridiculous for a utility character. You're already a half caster, so let them pick a few offensive cantrips to go with their mending/etc. It's not like they'd be doing much melee damage when they run out of slots.
I feel War Caster is a waste on Artificer. They already have constitution proficency and there are only a few spells on their spell list where it would be very bad if concentration was broken. And honestly maintaining concentration is like driving, yes it helps to have all those safety features but safe driving (play) is going to have WAY more impact on whether it is maintained or not. Of course you could be recomending it for "perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or shield in one or both hands", but that isn't a huge issue either for the Artificer. Your infusions can be your focus and many do not require a hand to hold (armor or jewelry). And with the free action it is easy enough to get a hand free or get a weapon when needed depending on whether you are doing a weapon attack or spell.
Alchemist/Artillerist: Gift of the Chromatic Dragon for con-free extra damage, Battle Smith: Gift of the Metallic Dragon to protect your SD, Gift of the Gem Dragon, for all of them, reflavored as a small explosion. BTW, what´s your opinion on taking a Feat not for the character but for your Steel Defender (Mobile, Sentinel, Charger, or even Chef, Healer, etc.)?
I need to wrap my head around the new Fizban's feats. I didn't commit them to memory because they didn't seem worthwhile at the time that I learned of them, so I forget about them. Oooo I'd happily negotiate with my players to allow "pet" feats. I specifically want to see the Steel Defender function as a Pez dispenser with the Chef feat.
Just to mix it up a little from always taking crossbow expert, for a ranged battle smith, I like to use repeating shot crossbow and then take martial adept with the bait and switch/distracting strike maneuvers. Just a little flavor besides crossbow expert.
I like Repeating Shot, especially since it enables a ranged attacker to use a shield while making ranged attacks! Maneuvers are fun; I wish the feats gave maybe one more Superiority Die.
Planning on playing a Tortle Battle Smith subclassing into either Bladesinger or School of War Wizard(for maybe 4 levels but at least 2 levels). Leaning more toward School of War since I plan on using a shield and like improved initiative, I know I could get more AC through Blade Song then I could with a shield but the Performance proficiency doesn't feel right for the character. The feats I was looking at were Skill Expert, Observant, and Telekinetic. For Skill Expert I would raise Int, gain proficiency in Athletics, and expertise in Perception(this is for this character but the feat is flexible so any choice is great). Observant is a nice feat that can work in any game. Telekinetic is nice to open up a cantrip slot, the best way to break grapples, and can be used to set up an enemy by messing with their positioning regardless of its size(not sure if you can knock a creature prone with this but if you can it is fantastic for anyone). Not sure the order I want to take.
@@FlutesLoot What is your take on Telekinetic? It does say you can take the shove action which normally you knock a creature prone but it doesn't say anything other than moving someone/thing 5 ft. It would make a huge difference if you could knock someone/thing prone, one of the reasons why I was looking at Shield Expert before I learned about the ruling change. I am toward Telekinetic but I actually haven't even joined a game so its still an idea.
@@jettblade Telekinetic can only do what it specifies, so it can only push someone away or pull them towards you by five feet. It's not a shove attack, it's a unique shove mechanic of its own. In short, it can't be used to shove a creature prone like a shove attack can. As for what I think of it, I love the Telekinetic feat. It's fantastic for spellcasters who aren't using their bonus actions already.
@@FlutesLoot That's what I thought, just needed a little clarification. I think still might end up taking it first because it just opens up more options which is never a bad thing to have as well as getting an half ASI.
New to D&D. I've been both a player and a DM for about a grand total of 8 sessions all together in the last few months. I refuse to use lucky personally. Like I won't ban it, but I told myself none of my characters will ever have it
I thought your name was Flute Sloot at first, and that resonated with me waaaaaaay more lol. Was thinking of a magical chef? Along the lines of Long John Silver from treasure planet meets Julieta from Encanto. Alchemist with Chef, poisoner, healer, fey touched? But not in that order.
Hahahaha we've had a few people gravitate to Flute Sloot. Missed opportunity on our part, lol. A magical chef sounds like a fun concept for an Artificer. Those feats line up.
A trick I have used after the flip on shield master to only after the attack. I took tavern brawler to use my shield as an primary improvised weapon and using a short sword in the off hand this way I could lead with an attack action shove. In this I think a few things could happen with dual weirder first upgrading to a long sword for 1 extra average damage the 1 AC because the shield is am improvised weapon and lastly it states you may draw or stow 2 weapons would that get around the action dawn shield
A good one for Armorer is Magic Initiate (Wizard) for some cantrips and the Shield spell, assuming your DM doesn't follow the tediously strict RAW which requires you to have a spellcasting feature that lets you cast Wizard spells to use spell slots on them.
Strixhaven initiate can get you shield (if youre allowed to use it), it's basically the fix magic initiate needed. It's what I'm currently planing for my armorer at my next level up
@@EdsonR13 I feel like if your DM is allowing you to use a feat meant for people going to interdimensional mage school, they'd let you just use Magic Initiate in the same way all the other feats do. My DM thinks based on the wording that you LEARN the spell, so you can cast it, end of discussion. However, after a PC died to a crit that I couldn't nullify with Silvery Barbs because I spent up to 10 rounds failing to make a WIS save against an incapacitating effect... I'm thinking Resilient (Wisdom) might be more important.
@@AnaseSkyrider do they also let you choose the spellcasting ability like stixhaven initiate? That's a lesser talked about issue with magic initiate that newer feats have fixed as well, not so important for the shield spell but still good for other spells
@@FlutesLoot honestly same, but i can only assume it does to balance out multi attack since i think every class that gets access to it (before fighter initiate was added to the feats) gets a few instances of multi attack. It'd be nice if there were a couple subclasses centered around dual wielding so it didn't take a bonus action but it'd likely have to go on classes that don't get too many uses of multi attack or fighter with their action surge.
@@shadowgarra360 I agree. This is one reason the Beast Barbarian is a great option to me. It makes two-weapon fighting more viable than it is for other characters. If I were to rework it in some way, I like Treantmonk's take on it. I also might make the feat for it allow the off-hand attack to be part of the attack action without requiring a bonus action.
For the Armorer specifically, here're some feats that may be worth exploring: Lucky Eldritch Adept (Devil's Sight) Metamagic Adept (for any two between Quicken, Distant, Transmute, or Subtle) Magic Initiate: Wizard (2 cantrips + either Find Familiar or Shield) Skill Expert Telekinetic Fey Touched Shadow Touched Alert Keen Mind (esp. useful for drawing schematics & designs, as well as forcing the DM to remember events from previous sessions) Observant (passive Perception and Investigation bumps are helpful) Notes: 1. Prodigy (Human, Half-Elf, or Half-Orc) and Elven Accuracy (Elf or Half-Elf only) are generally only good for Half-Elves. Unless you're a Half-Elf, I'd steer clear of these two feats. 2. Sharpshooter is situationally good, but that "locks" the PC into the Infiltrator variant as well as ranged combat. 3. As for CBE, that's actually a trap here; the only thing CBE nullifies for the Armorer is the "up-close disadvantage" aspect of ranged attack in melee. The other two abilities of CBE (the loading properties issue and the BA attack via Hand X-Bow) either can be solved with an Artificer Infusion (Repeating Shot), or don't apply to the Lightning Launcher at all. 4. Elemental Adept (for Lightning or Thunder) can be helpful, but, it does come at the cost of being "locked in" to one variant of the Armorer over the other, and the Armorer's key here is versatility. 5. Medium Armor Master could be helpful for Stealth approaches involving the Infiltrator variant, but this, at best, only negates disadvantage for Stealth while wearing Heavy Armor. If the PC doesn't want to be locked into wearing only Medium Armor at best, then it's not worth it to pick up this feat. 6. Picking up Find Familiar for Magic Initiate: Wizard, in conjunction with the Homunculus Servant Artificer Infusion, as well as Replicate Magic Item (Bag of Holding x 2), can create a short-ranged (10 ft. max) doomsday scenario as a last-ditch option. This can be game-breaking, and can be done as early as level 2 with a Variant Human with the aid of a hired NPC or another party member. (If you're otherwise not trying to break the game, I'd take Shield instead, since Armorers don't get it normally.)
@@FlutesLoot, when it comes to feats for the Armorer, I've found that feats that lead to specialization in a particular style of play tends to pigeonhole the PC and hamper the overall effectiveness of the Armorer subclass. Which reminds me: for Magic Initiate Wizard, Silvery Barbs is also a fantastic option to consider in place of Shield (unless the spell is banned or strongly-nerfed at the table). Kind of goes without saying, but it's pretty nutty. As for multiclassing with the Armorer Artificer, there's a couple routes to work with, but it's also partially dependent on whether or not the adventure goes the full 20 Levels, and partially dependent on who's in the party (as well as what role they fill). The issue with the Artificer, as a class, is that it's heavily rear-loaded, and so if the adventure expects to end at high tier 2 to low tier 3 play, multiclassing at that point might become a viable option (but not until after Artificer Level 5, when the PC gets extra attack). The key to maximizing multiclassing here is to either have a good Dex., which isn't hard with Point Buy, or to stay within Int. For PC's with a good Dex. (13 or higher): Fighter... Eldritch Knight or Echo Knight. Eldritch Knight for Infiltrator and all-purpose mains, and Echo Knight for Guardian mains. (We already have a high Int., why not maximize & leverage its use?) Rogue... Arcane Trickster or Soulknife. The psi dice from Soulknife can be helpful with skill checks, and limited teleporting is usually helpful too. But Arcane Tricksters make use of Int., just like the Eldritch Knight, and there's too many good Illusion/Enchantment spells to ignore, like Silvery Barbs and Sleep. For PC's with a bad Dex. (12 or lower), or for PC's that want to stay SAD, the following Wizard subclasses seem promising with a 2 level dip: Chronurgy (Chronal Shift + Temporal Awareness) & Divination (for Portent), mainly. War Magic is, oddly enough, a bit of a trap due to "Flash of Genius" at Artificer Level 7, and due to Artificers having the Shield proficiency already. Concurrently, Arcane Deflection would only be useful for help on saving throws, and subsequently, also conflicts w./the Shield spell. (I could see Arcane Deflection being used in place of Flash of Genius in an emergency situation specifically involving saving throws, in case the PC is out of uses for Flash of Genius for some reason, but that's about it.)
Late to the party, but i was wondering what are your thoughts about a Tortle artificer? Is there a viable build for that? I’ve recently been obsessing about making a tortle artificer and have scoured RUclips in the hopes of finding a specific build but to no avail. Would really love to hear your insight.
Haha I think the only Tortle Artificer I'd be interested in would be if the DM let me treat the shell as the Armorer's special armor so I could augment my shell.
I wouldn't bother with Crossbow expert on the ranged Battle Smith, The benefits of Crossbow expert are bonus action attack, no reload, and fire in melee. Battle Smith already has two of those three.
Since you mentioned metamagic adept, i was wondering how you'd rule storing metamagic modified spells into the spell-storing item. would you allow it? reasoning why? agreed with most of your feat choices except those bonus action heavy feats you picked for battlesmith like crossbow expert.
My gut reaction is to allow the metamagic to be included in the spell storing item, but I'd have to think about it. I think it sounds fun for the players. And fair enough! Are there better uses for the bonus action that I'm missing for Battlesmith?
@@FlutesLoot yeah stuff like twinned enlarge/reduce is fun. for the battlesmith bonus action economy, aside from spells, you also have the steel defender commands.
@@TheRobversion1 ah that's right. I guess I prefer to have the Steel Defender stick around in front of me, but I haven't played that subclass yet. Maybe I'd change my mind if I did.
@@FlutesLoot one of my fave tactics on my steel defender is to: round 1: bonus action: command steel defender to grapple round 2: bonus action: cast sanctuary on the steel defender free action: steel defender dodges and drags enemy around
It frustrates me when someone says "your not technically holding/wielding the thunder gauntlets." Why? Because so long as you make a fist you technically are! If you were just wearing a normal pair of gloves and someone tries to pull them off, they won't be able to, unless you leave your hand slack. Why? Because you are NOT holding on. Should you however clench your fist, they will be unable to pull them off. Why? Because you are now HOLDING ON to them. You have a portion of the objects within your clutches. There are no "if's" about it. The dual wielder feat absolutely applies to the thunder gauntlets. 🤨😮💨😒 P.S. I don't think it would work with a shield though. Because, if I recall correctly🤔, the thunder gauntlets specify you need to NOT be holding anything else with them in order to use them as weapons.
Dual wielder still seems like a trap here. "Each of the armor's gauntlets counts as a simple melee weapon *while you aren't holding anything in it* " You wouldn't get any of the benefits of dual wielder while wielding a shield. If you want to forgo the shield to get a bonus action attack it works but it still doesn't feel like it's worth the feat
I noticed during the Infiltrator Armorer you kept saying Hand Crossbow, which Armorer isn't proficient in cuz they got heavy armor, so you would need or want a way to get proficient in that weapon
I always confuse the light crossbow and hand crossbow in my memory. Thanks for pointing this out. Anyone who wants to use a hand crossbow as an Armorer will need to multiclass or otherwise gain proficiency with martial weapons or the hand crossbow at least.
I always wonder when people recommend Fighting Initiate (which I would love to take, but probably need to take a 1 level dip into fighter for the same result) for an armorer artificer, where do they get the required Martial Weapon Proficiency for this feat? I can't find this proficiency anywhere for an artificer. Or do people just miss or ignore it?
I can't speak for everyone, but for me, I've gotten so used to ignoring little requirements like that with those I play with that I forget the requirement exists. To me, requirements on feats feel frivolous after all these years. I recognize that I make mistakes due to this bias. I'd prefer to be correct by the rules, but I have my blind spots :P I can correct my article!
@@FlutesLoot Awesome. Tbh, if I wouldn't currently play an (armorer, even though we just reached level 2) artificer that is going the ranged route, I wouldn't have caught that. I was planning on taking 1-3 level in Fighter, which my DM doesn't like (He currently decided to add things, so we can play until level 20, so taking Fighter levels could hinder me), maybe I can get him to ignore that prerequisite.
I don't like a hand crossbow for an Infiltrator Armorer. You need one hand for your spellcasting tool, so you've only got one hand free and I'd rather have a shield. Instead seriously consider the Homunculus Servant infusion. You use your bonus action for it to very reliably do a small amount of force damage. It can hold a lantern or torch for you. It can use the help action or use objects. With an intelligence of 10 it's smarter than some of your party members. And it's great for fluff because you can customize your construct look like anything you want, not just a clockwork animal like the pictures imply.
That's a great note on the Homunculus! If a player would rather not invest a feat or two for a bonus action and Sharpshooter damage boost, the Homunculus can fill that bonus action for a bit more damage. For the Infiltrator Armor, Armorers can use their armor as their spellcasting focus. Do they need a free hand? You can use the Repeating Shot Infusion so you can use a hand crossbow while still wielding a shield.
@@FlutesLoot Oh, you're right. Normally you don't need a hand, but my DM gave me an All Purpose Tool +1 that is too good not to use. That thing is OP: +1 spellcasting focus, an extra cantrip, plus it can turn into any tool and you are proficient in that tool (double proficient after level 6).
@@FlutesLoot yes. Couple it with a flying homonculus carrying flame thrower or protector canon and you have a serious front liner that despite only a single attack can get a boomingblade attack from action and can often get a second booming blade attack on reaction (each of which procs crusher for 5 ft movement away from your character and possibly causing enemy to make decision to move and proc boomingblade second damage) and bonus action activation of flame thrower or protector canon situated on the map via homonculus flight (as situation calls for).
I'm playing an autognome artificer in Spelljammer for my first campaign ever. I'm not sure if I should take a feat now that I've hit level 4 (if my DM allows it), or if I should take the opportunity to bump my Int on up from 16 to 18. I took Keen Mind at level 1 to get it to 16 from the jump, and I figured always knowing what time it is and which way is north would be appropriate for an android spelljammer pilot or navigator (I ended up being the pilot). I really want to take advantage of being a little robot and convince my DM to let me build the focus that will become my Arcane Firearm *into* my autognome's arm, so I can swap it out for my regular hand in combat and fire off spells like it's Mega Man's megabuster. I assume I'd want a wand for this, but can you recommend a more appropriate focus? Right now, I'm just using a screwdriver from my Tinker's Tools as a focus. Beyond that, I want to lay down walking turrets and provide support like an engineer in TF2, as well as the occasional heal. I can't attack with my Homunculus Servant in the same turn as with an Eldritch Cannon, but I can use it to remotely heal somebody with Cure Wounds.
Whether to take +2 to Int or a feat is up to you and what you want to achieve. If you want a statistical boost, take the +2. If you want some cool tricks and a slight boost for now, something like Fey Touched is great. There are other feats that could fulfill a niche depending on your interests. Maybe you can use something like a lens as a focus to go for the Mega Man buster feel. You could also apply parts from machines as you go and adapt those for tool focuses, like how Mega Man steals boss abilities.
I have a maverick artificer He is trying to give reason to law of attraction He was raised by shaman and metal is the only way he can bring such thing that is reason So my dm is getting Helania’s guide, which has magnetic spells and creatures So he will using magnetism like how the planet uses it To protect us from radiate particles from the sun So a nova force field A spiritual magnetic artificer I potentially plan on giving my character infernal constitution to resist the elements so that it doesn’t interfere with his powers
Sorry man, if your recommending a feat ( duell wielder) that is complety on DM's discretion it soulden't be on the list. Think of any DM that would allow you to wield the shield and attack with the same hand. Goes against the rules as written
You're right, I shouldn't include that recommendation. Even if a DM is ok with it, it's a can of worms for any character with claws or other natural weapons. I do think it's worth considering for an Armorer to use Dual Wielder to gain a bonus action attack, but not stacking it with shield shenanigans. I only recommend Dual Wielder in very specific instances like this, though I haven't run the DPR calcs on it yet.
@@FlutesLoot, the TL;DR on Dual Wielder is that it's bad, especially for the Armorer. Even if Dual Wielder is allowed in the case of the Thunder Gauntlets, this locks the PC into the Guardian variant by default, as the Infiltrator's Lightning Launcher is a simple ranged weapon that the PC only gets one of. (You can't dual-wield a simple ranged weapon, much less one that's attached to the PC's armor, and the Launcher is also the key to damage for the Infiltrator variant.) Further, the PC won't be able to use a shield while dual-wielding, unless the PC's race lets them have more than 2 arms. And most PC races (that I know of) don't have more than 2 arms. Finally, this route also badly hampers spellcasting while in combat, due to Somatic components being compromised while dual wielding (unless the DM hand-waives that rule).
@@simondiamond9628 thanks for your input. On your last point, it's actually pretty easy to "juggle" a weapon and/or other item with Dual Wielder. In this case, the armor is the weapon, so freeing up hands for somatic components of a spell is simple to do. Are you seeing a hindrance to that process that I'm not picking up on? To your first point, my intent was to lock into one of the armor options since the Armorer is often considered pretty weak. I wanted to see if I could make it shine a bit by specializing.
@@FlutesLoot, thanks for the response. Re. my first point, I can understand the desire to move towards specialization, since some in the community would consider the Armorer weak (which it's not). Those people, in my opinion, have probably not played a Mountain Dwarf Artificer using TCoE's variant rules. :) As to my second point about the Dual Wielder feat interacting the Guardian model, the TL;DR is that this is an RAW vs. RAI interpretation of the feat, as it pertains to the Guardian model, which will require further clarification from Mearls/Crawford, et. al. I'll explain as briefly as I can: 1. The weapons in question (the thunder gauntlets) are not held or "wielded" in a way which the Dual Wielder feat verbiage requires. Even though the gauntlets are weapons as listed (simple melee weapons), in actual practicality, they moreso function like a pair of Cestus or Boxing Gloves (e.g., punching gauntlets). 2. Based on RAW, the Dual Wielder feat refers to *wielding* weapons within your hand (and not necessarily the hand itself), but the feat itself, based on my reading of it, only lets you use these weapons in conjunction with the rules related to Two Weapon Fighting. Further, the rules for two weapon fighting specifically refer to you physically *holding* the weapon, and to the best of my knowledge, wearing a weapon doesn't explicitly count. (You aren't really technically holding a pair of gauntlets or gloves in your hands, as much as you're wearing them, like cestus or boxing gloves.) As a side point, the oracle text from the writers of 5e do often involve ambiguous wordings when it comes to their rules, from time to time, due to the sake of brevity. And it's one of which I can totally understand; few people naturally would want to sit down with a 500+ page rulebook that explicitly details "corner case" scenarios, especially ones detailing every single nook and cranny about a particular skill or ability. It would get exhausting, and WOTC is already pumping out loads of content between 5E and Magic: The Gathering related content. (Almost enough content to rival Disney Media Group if you ask me, but that's besides the point.) TL;DR: Since this is an RAW vs RAI matter, I would say further clarification from the team would be helpful on this matter, though DM's in private games may hand-waive this issue in the interests of "rule of cool", which is well within the DM's purview. Private games are, after all, privately attended. This being said, I generally foresee this issue like this coming up at a 5E A.L. game, where decisions from DM's are based explicitly on RAW, which is where my perspective is ultimately coming from. I can also foresee this being an issue in private games where DM's are hardliners for RAW as opposed to RAI. In the future, if Mearls/Crawford, et. al., rule as you suggest in a future Sage Advice posting, and/or via Twitter, then I'm willing to stand corrected. But so far, I haven't seen anything from them that explicitly supports this direction, as per RAI. Hope this clears things up. Again, if I'm wrong, I'm happy to stand corrected as that would be news to me, and especially helpful in games that I DM.
@@simondiamond9628 your points are crystal clear. I promise I do consider these RAW vs RAI matters, particularly with this instance. If I didn't communicate the caveat well enough, that's on me. I wouldn't want a player to think they can 100% do something with a character and then get vetoed. Another example of me bringing this Dual Wielder feat up where I think I explained it better so players (including AL) will know it requires DM approval is my video on the Beast Barbarian; its claws are not held, but I explained why DMs can readily allow claws+Dual Wielder without fear of the game breaking. In fact, it enables a playstyle that is usually very ineffective compared to ranged attacks and heavy attacks when it comes to dealing damage (which two-weapon fighting feels like it should do). Thank you for the thorough input! :)
Here's my kinda weird build for a gnomish artificer: the rigger, or drone swarm artificer.
He's an artillerist artificer with a homunculus servant, so that's two minions on the field. When I hit 5th level I'll take the magic initiate feat to get the Find Familiar spell. That gives me a total of three remote minions woth various functions.
Haha I love it. Reminds me of Mysterio when he gets the drone control in Spider-Man Far From Home.
Couldn't you use an infusion to replicate a tattoo of find familiar? That would save you a feat.
@@locusofintentYes though I've seen some DMs say they don't allow it because "you can't use your infusions for scrolls and the tattoos are basically scrolls but better. "
@@Nyundaa Those DMs need to stop being killjoys. Not allowing something that's creative and plausible, simply because of a technicality via your interpretation. That's just bad manners.
I would like to add that if you’re a small race, mounted combatant is awesome for a batttle smith. At level 10, you could infuse your steel defender with winged boots, giving yourself an awesome mount to ride and chase after your flying target.
That sounds like a lot of fun. WotC really opened up possibilities by giving races a small option.
A thing you could ad to the ranged alchemist is Tavern brawler and perhaps even a multiclass into rogue thief for fast hands. This way you can start tossing acid vials/alchemist fire in your bonus action. Works also with sneak attack/sharpshooter and archery.
I love the Thief Rogue and Fast Hands
Umm... you misspoke I believe
Guardian Armorer - Thunder Gauntlets - if you hit the baddy has disadvantage on anyone who ISN'T you... they don't have disadvantage on you
As written:
Each of the armor’s gauntlets counts as a simple melee weapon while you aren’t holding anything in it, and it deals thunder damage on a hit. A creature hit by the gauntlet has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other than you until the start of your next turn, as the armor magically emits a distracting pulse when the creature attacks someone else.
You are correct, I was mistaken on that point.
I just was listening to this and was going to comment this. Glad someone else caught it.
As for the artillerist recommendations, i had build a bardificer who was a rock and roll style of character. He called himself the roaring demon, where the only thing that were more fire than his verses were the flames he commanded. He wielded a magical version of an electric guitar that would launch his missile-type spells from the end, which served as his focus for both classes as well as his future Arcane Firearm. If you have played No Straoght Roads, think of Mayday’s guitar. His Eldritch cannons would double as his sound system as well as his standard turrets, making for cool pyrotechnic displays as well as the Protector Cannom being related to the bard aspect of him. I went with lore to not only extend his skill set as well as access some other utility magical secret spells.
That's a FANTASTIC take on that multiclass combination. I might need to highlight the idea in an article.
That sounds awesome! I'm picturing the Force Cannons as a pair of speakers blowing enemies down with concussive blasts of sound.
For the guardian armorer i use a complete diferent set of feats. Tough for increase a low pool of Hp (d8s). Movile to avoid oportunity attacks and increase reach through the battlefield ,and heavy armor master to decrease damage taken.
Sounds solid to me!
If your DM allows you to change feats, Heavy Armor Master is a fantastic feat at low levels (which honestly should scale with PB). If you're looking for defense for a higher level swap, there's good ole Resilient (Wisdom).
@@AnaseSkyrider it's good at high levels too. I don't know many creatures that do magical BPS. And I would just house rule that if you have magical armor then it would apply to magical BPS. And a flat 3 negation adds up.
@@dragonhearthx8369 The problem is that damage die and bonuses to damage scale way faster than multi-attack does, so the relative damage reduction it provides goes down very quickly with levels. PB-scaling, or adding magic armor bonuses to the reduction, would be good improvements, though.
Hey man speaking of artificer, I’ve always wanted to see if there was a viable build for artificer/rogue multi class. Having a higher level artificer and maybe 3 levels in rogue. Using the artificer magic items to support your stealth and rogue abilities. I’d love to see your thoughts on this
I'd personally have a lot of fun with three levels of Thief Rogue so I could use my bonus action to douse someone in oil and then use fire damage on them :P
I don't know of a combination that has a crazy synergy, but there are useful tools to gain.
I have an article about Artificer multiclassing ideas that talks about how Artificers can gain a lot from dipping one or two levels into Rogue. Artificers can also gain some fun options from three Rogue levels for the subclass. (www.flutesloot.com/artificer-multiclassing-dnd-5e/)
For a Rogue multiclass dip, the two biggest questions a player has to ask themselves are:
1. Is the adventure going to Level 20? If not, how high is it going?
2. If you're going to Level 20, then are you willing to lose out on your later abilities, as an Artificer, in exchange for the skills/abilites you'd pick up from multiclassing?
To give you a side by side comparison, here's what you'd lose multiclassing 3 levels of Rogue:
...Loss of one Level 5 Spell Slot for Artificer
...Loss of an ASI at Level 19 as an Artificer
...Loss of Soul of Artifice at Level 20
...Loss of Magic Item Master at Level 18
And for going Rogue, here's what you'd pick up:
...Light Armor prof. (swap for a Tool)
...Thieves' Tools prof. (swap for a 2nd Tool)
...one skill from the Rogue skill list
...Thieves' Cant
...Sneak Attack (to a max of 2d6)
...Skill Expertise in 2 skills
...Cunning Action
...Rogue subclass of your choice
...The Steady Aim Optional Rule (if the DM allows it)
And so, here're my takeaways:
A. The Artificer's base class abilities are severely rear-loaded. Many of the best abilities with the Artificer stem from levels 18 through 20, as I noted above.
B. If the adventure you're running in is a module, then that module probably has a level cap, which will often be in the low tier 3's (sometimes high tier 2). In these instances, it may be worth it to you to multiclass out, but the caveat to that is that it also depends in-part on your Artificer specialty, and in-part based on who else is in your party.
In the case of the Armorer, if you're planning on mainly being an artificer, then I wouldn't multiclass out until after level 5, which is when you get extra attack.
As for Rogue subclasses in specific, the Arcane Trickster is a slam dunk here. The biggest hinderance normally to an Arcane Trickster normally is their typically low Int. Score. In the case of the Artificer, however, that's not really a drawback at all here. Mage Hand Ledgermain grants some neat stuff here, plus you get 2 extra Wizard cantrips (which the Artificer badly lacks), and 3 extra spells (two of which must be Illus./Ench.).
As an alternative to the Arcane Trickster, the Soulknife would be a runner-up due to their abilities, and their Psionic Dicepool scaling with your PB.
TL;DR: In a module where the adventure ends at high tier 2 or low tier 3, and in a party where Rogue skills are lacking in any way or form, I'd say pick up Rogue for Arcane Trickster. (Maybe the Soulknife.)
3 levels of rogue for thief subclass really sounds interesting combo for alchemist honestly. Not for traditional thief things, though you would be decent as a backup rogue once you get expertise with tools, but for the fast hands feature which lets you use items or sleight of hand as a bonus action. Using potions or even healing kits without giving up your main action, extra useful with the healer feat either to pick up an ally or double heal with cure wounds.
Fun fact sneak attack works with infiltrator lightning so that’s something that can work
@@Kolohe_Senpai, you're correct on that, and that can be done.
A multiclass half-elf Artificer (armorer)/Rogue (arcane trickster), operating on a 5/15 build split build, favoring the Rogue, could spike the Sneak Attack damage through the roof. Feat progression would most likely include: Elven Accuracy, Fighting Initiate: Archery, Sharpshooter, and maybe either Lucky or Elemental Adept (Lightning).
A variant on this idea is 5/2/1/12 split build of Artificer (Armorer) 5/Wizard 2 (Chronurgy) 2/Fighter 1/Rogue (Arcane Trickster) 12. Same feats apply as before.
The artillerist really opens up the shield master pistol combo which allows you to shove & shoot.
Great idea!
Duel wielder is worth considering for Armorer because the effect of the gauntlets is uniquely good and it might be worth tagging the debuff on multiple enemies, even if you aren’t able to use a shield or do ability score damage on the extra attack.
That's a good point where it may be worth tagging multiple enemies without juggling a shield. After all, shields require an action to equip, so it's good to find other things to do when equipping a shield isn't a desired use of time.
Or you can search for a flying shield.
First video I’ve seen of yours, it was very fresh and new. I like your take on the class and your break down and explanations.
Thank you very much! I'm always glad to hear I provided fresh content.
I like telekinesis on an infiltrator armorer, you end up with a fun bonus action and mage hand is awesome non combat utility. First, you can push the person you want to shoot if they are in your melee range to remove disadvantage. 2nd you can pull any downed friends out of melee range if someone needs to touch heal them or force feed them a healing potion. 3rd, with Tasha's Caustic Brew and/or bonefire you can push/pull enemies into some fun area effects you put down. If you have a druid with you with thorn whip (they can also have some fun area of effect spells to boot) and your front liner has sentinel, all the more throwing them through stuff fun and your front liner is sticky so they have a hard time reaching you. Outside of potentially 1 area of effect cast at the beginning (if your ally doesn't first or there isn't something to begin with) you are still shooting away at your enemies as per usual, so it works well for me in this kit. Toss in a Fey Touched at some point so when they do get to you and you can't position well to keep ping ponging them through it, you blink to a different spot and the fun begins a new. Sharpshooter and lucky are nice other feats, I like to have extra spells too though, so from there, if I am playing this way, it depends on party composition.
Fantastic ideas! Telekinesis is a fun feat that received a lot of hype when it came out, but it hasn't been utilized as much as Fey Touched, at least as far as I can tell.
Not sure if this has been said. But you need the 2 weapon fighting style AND the duel wielder feat to use the thunder gauntlets.
Although I think a homebrew rule saying that the gauntlets are light and you get the 2 weapon fighting style when you get this subclass is perfectly fine.
The Fighting Style only allows for more damage, it doesn't improve usability as the feat does. It's certainly nice to get both.
For Guardian Armorer, Shield Master has proven to be a pretty nice choice, add the Enhanced Defence infusion to you're shield and you have a min. +4 on your DEX saves.
Fantastic! I'm glad it works for you.
I agree, Shield Master is a great bonus for Armorer. Last session I got the shove to prone Athletics check to work (nat 20) against a in flight dragon (Enlarged gnome + campaign specific item Enlarge stacking FTW).
@@khuri9030 noice!
I'm a solid fan of picking up magic initiate for an artillerist the extra cantrips are very useful as most of the time I end up just using cantrips once I run out of spells also find familiars very useful
Solid choice
I kinda wonder if building with Int as your main stat is a trap for artificers--we don't usually build other half-casters around their spell casting stat, like rangers usually go wisdom and paladins strength. Part of the problem is that unlike Hexblade with Cha, you can't use Int for weapon attacks on artificer until level 3.
I tried a Dex based Infiltrator armor build and it worked pretty well, just taking spells that don't require saves or attacks and instead boost yourself, like Spiderclimb. Toss on a level of fighter for archery style, a level of rogue on a goblin for hide advantage (or 3 levels of rogue Scout on an elf/half-elf with Elven Accuracy), and Sharpshooter and you can do pretty well.
Part of the problem with artificers is also that they do not get fighting styles and have only d8 hitpoints, so they have the martial combat weaknesses of full casters, and the low spell slots of half-casters.
It's an interesting idea! Artificers can certainly survive on lower Int.
I started a Armorer Artificer last week, we started at level 7 because the old group we played had that level. As the first Feat I choosed Fey touched, for the sole reason that it generally fitted to the character since he's a Harengon and since Harengon came originally from the Feywilds I just saw it as fitting.
What we already know is that we will never grow higher than level 12 until the end of the campaign. So I can only choose 3 times if I want a Feat or an ASI, rn my Int is at 18 through one point from Fey touched and the plus 2 you could set wherever you wanted since the races don't have fixed values anymore.
I do want to get Int to 20 so I at least need one ASI.
Other Stats are: (Standard Array)
Strengh 8 (but I don't have a negative midfier because of Stone of good luck)
Dexterity 12
Constitution 14
Intelligence 18
Wisdom 14
Charisma 10
Have to see what I'll take for the last Feat/ASI, the role my character plays is Tank so mostly as Guardian.
So he is a 3 foot small Ironbunny xD
For the Mad Scientist, I’d use Shadow Touched instead, plus, I’d use the Reborn lineage and the “Simic Scientist” background.
Plenty of ways to bring the concept to life! :)
Another good feat for the Artificer is from its source book. Aberrant DragonMark. :+1 con is welcomed on any caster, and with 2/4 of the subclass martial capable, a nice increase in HP. Being able to pick up a cantrip and 1st level spell from the sorcerer's list that acts like pact magic (short rest recharge) is very useful. Nevermind the optional rules nonsense you can abuse 😁
Speaking of Warlocks, I also picked up Eldric adept, and played it off a " bionic infusion"
That's an interesting one! I thought the chance to improve at higher levels was innovative.
I'm a noob but skilled feat. And took 3 tools has been fun. Works with all subclasses.
Nothing noob about playing how you like :)
With the newest Critical Role book, Tal'Dorei Reborn that came out. Remarkable Recovery feat is amazing; especially, after you reach level 10. Take the Replicate Item Infusion and choose Periapt of Wound Closure. Every time you get knocked down on your turn you get up again. 'Tubthumping' Song by Chumbawamba becomes your theme song.
I GET KNOCKED DOWN
Coming from an Alchemist;
Tavern Brawler
Chef
Shield Master
Medium Armor Master
Ritual Caster (Wizard)
Gift of Alacrity!!! Ooo!!! I haven't heard of this amazing spell thank you. So what I was thinking until I watched this was talking Alert then Fey Touched & Magic Initiate to grab Eldridge blast and hex. But alas if my bonus action is in conflict...
The Alchemist never sat right with me. I never looked past level 1 simply because if I were a mad scientist I couldn't have a clue about engineering I'd be a chemist. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd want to play just a chemist and I'd forgo a lot of options making my character unless the first 3 levels. And so I'd just assume play a character with an alchemy kit and take Tavern brawler to throw my chemicals fairy well. LOL Maybe use a rogue build instead. But thanks for the insight.
Oh and I'm going with a Tabaxi-kitsune. I love Rocket from Gardians. This is my dnd version.
Gift of Alacrity is a solid spell option for Fey Touched! Those feats all sound great.
Playing as Rocket sounds like a good time! Btw, I have a video all about the Thief Rogue and playing it like an alchemist that you may enjoy for brainstorming your character: ruclips.net/video/WXr-CL-8gjk/видео.html
Guardian Armorer might want Mobile feat to be able to hit multiple targets with Thunder Gauntlets giving multiple targets disadvantage without getting hit with opportunity attacks.
I see how that could be useful!
No feats on my artillerist yet but plan on fey touched and resilient (wisdom) at 12 and 16, assuming the campaign makes it that far.
Get a +1 to wisdom as a result and saving throw proficiency, can't complain.
Perfect!
Armorer Experience:
I went from level 1 to being level 14 with Dual Wielder and I have some opinions.
With 27 AC at level 14, the 1 AC point just isn't worth the Feat slot, unless you're planning to keep your AC under 24.
Most attacked got around a 23 at highest, or if it did hit me, it was criticals or 30+ on a roll.
Great note! Thanks for sharing your experience.
Enjoying this video series!
I'll keep em coming!
A really good pick for Infiltrator Armor Artificers is Medium Armor Master because you can get up to an AC of 20 with the right infusions and a shield and have advantage add stealth checks
Yeah, it turns regular Stealth rolls into advantage with the Arcane Armor and it gives +1 AC if you have 16 Dex. I don't think I'd pick it over other options, but I see the appeal. I'd be tempted if my party enjoyed sneaky tactics.
@@FlutesLoot OMG I'm so surprised you reacted even when the video is 3 months old. But I have used this on a Armor Artificer 3 Scout Rogue 5 build of main because sneak attack works on the Lightning Launcher form the Infiltrator Armor. It as a lot of synergy. I was a WInged Tiefling so I could fly with Medium Armor. So I made Medium Armor the best it could be. I hope you like the more info I gave here.
@@chrisdegen985 that definitely paints an awesome picture. I'd play that in a heartbeat!
Waiting to play an Artificer. but i think the battle smith can definitely benefit from mounted combatant feat if your small. also consider how the infusions can be pros/cons for certain feats. reminder of prerequisite for fighting initiate proficiency with martial weapons. [armorer weapons count as simple]
Ah, that's a detail I overlooked! I clearly forget about Fighting Initiate's prerequisite.
Mounted Combatant could be fun for a Battle Smith!
6:23 sadly the gauntlets need to be in a hand that isn’t holding anything. But you could still use it if you didn’t want to use a shield
I haven't really looked through feats I'd want for my gnome alchemist except for magic initiate (choosing the artificer spell list). Not for the 1st lv spell. Just for the extra cantrips, because 2 until level 10 is ridiculous for a utility character. You're already a half caster, so let them pick a few offensive cantrips to go with their mending/etc. It's not like they'd be doing much melee damage when they run out of slots.
Grabbing more cantrips can feel really good!
I feel War Caster is a waste on Artificer. They already have constitution proficency and there are only a few spells on their spell list where it would be very bad if concentration was broken. And honestly maintaining concentration is like driving, yes it helps to have all those safety features but safe driving (play) is going to have WAY more impact on whether it is maintained or not. Of course you could be recomending it for "perform the somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or shield in one or both hands", but that isn't a huge issue either for the Artificer. Your infusions can be your focus and many do not require a hand to hold (armor or jewelry). And with the free action it is easy enough to get a hand free or get a weapon when needed depending on whether you are doing a weapon attack or spell.
Alchemist/Artillerist: Gift of the Chromatic Dragon for con-free extra damage, Battle Smith: Gift of the Metallic Dragon to protect your SD, Gift of the Gem Dragon, for all of them, reflavored as a small explosion.
BTW, what´s your opinion on taking a Feat not for the character but for your Steel Defender (Mobile, Sentinel, Charger, or even Chef, Healer, etc.)?
I need to wrap my head around the new Fizban's feats. I didn't commit them to memory because they didn't seem worthwhile at the time that I learned of them, so I forget about them.
Oooo I'd happily negotiate with my players to allow "pet" feats. I specifically want to see the Steel Defender function as a Pez dispenser with the Chef feat.
Just to mix it up a little from always taking crossbow expert, for a ranged battle smith, I like to use repeating shot crossbow and then take martial adept with the bait and switch/distracting strike maneuvers. Just a little flavor besides crossbow expert.
I like Repeating Shot, especially since it enables a ranged attacker to use a shield while making ranged attacks! Maneuvers are fun; I wish the feats gave maybe one more Superiority Die.
Planning on playing a Tortle Battle Smith subclassing into either Bladesinger or School of War Wizard(for maybe 4 levels but at least 2 levels). Leaning more toward School of War since I plan on using a shield and like improved initiative, I know I could get more AC through Blade Song then I could with a shield but the Performance proficiency doesn't feel right for the character. The feats I was looking at were Skill Expert, Observant, and Telekinetic. For Skill Expert I would raise Int, gain proficiency in Athletics, and expertise in Perception(this is for this character but the feat is flexible so any choice is great). Observant is a nice feat that can work in any game. Telekinetic is nice to open up a cantrip slot, the best way to break grapples, and can be used to set up an enemy by messing with their positioning regardless of its size(not sure if you can knock a creature prone with this but if you can it is fantastic for anyone). Not sure the order I want to take.
I recommend taking the feat that sounds the most fun and works best with your action economy first :)
@@FlutesLoot What is your take on Telekinetic? It does say you can take the shove action which normally you knock a creature prone but it doesn't say anything other than moving someone/thing 5 ft. It would make a huge difference if you could knock someone/thing prone, one of the reasons why I was looking at Shield Expert before I learned about the ruling change. I am toward Telekinetic but I actually haven't even joined a game so its still an idea.
@@jettblade Telekinetic can only do what it specifies, so it can only push someone away or pull them towards you by five feet. It's not a shove attack, it's a unique shove mechanic of its own. In short, it can't be used to shove a creature prone like a shove attack can. As for what I think of it, I love the Telekinetic feat. It's fantastic for spellcasters who aren't using their bonus actions already.
@@FlutesLoot That's what I thought, just needed a little clarification. I think still might end up taking it first because it just opens up more options which is never a bad thing to have as well as getting an half ASI.
New to D&D. I've been both a player and a DM for about a grand total of 8 sessions all together in the last few months. I refuse to use lucky personally. Like I won't ban it, but I told myself none of my characters will ever have it
I feel similarly. I don't think I've ever picked Lucky in almost ten years playing 5e.
I thought your name was Flute Sloot at first, and that resonated with me waaaaaaay more lol.
Was thinking of a magical chef? Along the lines of Long John Silver from treasure planet meets Julieta from Encanto. Alchemist with Chef, poisoner, healer, fey touched? But not in that order.
Hahahaha we've had a few people gravitate to Flute Sloot. Missed opportunity on our part, lol.
A magical chef sounds like a fun concept for an Artificer. Those feats line up.
A trick I have used after the flip on shield master to only after the attack. I took tavern brawler to use my shield as an primary improvised weapon and using a short sword in the off hand this way I could lead with an attack action shove. In this I think a few things could happen with dual weirder first upgrading to a long sword for 1 extra average damage the 1 AC because the shield is am improvised weapon and lastly it states you may draw or stow 2 weapons would that get around the action dawn shield
I like the ingenuity!
A good one for Armorer is Magic Initiate (Wizard) for some cantrips and the Shield spell, assuming your DM doesn't follow the tediously strict RAW which requires you to have a spellcasting feature that lets you cast Wizard spells to use spell slots on them.
I think that should be the standard for Magic Initiate in modern 5e. And it's a good feat for Artificers.
Strixhaven initiate can get you shield (if youre allowed to use it), it's basically the fix magic initiate needed. It's what I'm currently planing for my armorer at my next level up
@@EdsonR13 I feel like if your DM is allowing you to use a feat meant for people going to interdimensional mage school, they'd let you just use Magic Initiate in the same way all the other feats do. My DM thinks based on the wording that you LEARN the spell, so you can cast it, end of discussion.
However, after a PC died to a crit that I couldn't nullify with Silvery Barbs because I spent up to 10 rounds failing to make a WIS save against an incapacitating effect... I'm thinking Resilient (Wisdom) might be more important.
@@AnaseSkyrider do they also let you choose the spellcasting ability like stixhaven initiate? That's a lesser talked about issue with magic initiate that newer feats have fixed as well, not so important for the shield spell but still good for other spells
@@EdsonR13 No. My DM is operating on the wording, not balance.
idk dual wielder doesn't seem that bad, it just seems that its meant to specifically compliment 2 weapon fighting.
Very true. I wish two-weapon fighting were better and didn't tax the bonus action.
@@FlutesLoot honestly same, but i can only assume it does to balance out multi attack since i think every class that gets access to it (before fighter initiate was added to the feats) gets a few instances of multi attack.
It'd be nice if there were a couple subclasses centered around dual wielding so it didn't take a bonus action but it'd likely have to go on classes that don't get too many uses of multi attack or fighter with their action surge.
@@shadowgarra360 I agree. This is one reason the Beast Barbarian is a great option to me. It makes two-weapon fighting more viable than it is for other characters.
If I were to rework it in some way, I like Treantmonk's take on it. I also might make the feat for it allow the off-hand attack to be part of the attack action without requiring a bonus action.
For the Armorer specifically, here're some feats that may be worth exploring:
Lucky
Eldritch Adept (Devil's Sight)
Metamagic Adept (for any two between Quicken, Distant, Transmute, or Subtle)
Magic Initiate: Wizard (2 cantrips + either Find Familiar or Shield)
Skill Expert
Telekinetic
Fey Touched
Shadow Touched
Alert
Keen Mind (esp. useful for drawing schematics & designs, as well as forcing the DM to remember events from previous sessions)
Observant (passive Perception and Investigation bumps are helpful)
Notes:
1. Prodigy (Human, Half-Elf, or Half-Orc) and Elven Accuracy (Elf or Half-Elf only) are generally only good for Half-Elves. Unless you're a Half-Elf, I'd steer clear of these two feats.
2. Sharpshooter is situationally good, but that "locks" the PC into the Infiltrator variant as well as ranged combat.
3. As for CBE, that's actually a trap here; the only thing CBE nullifies for the Armorer is the "up-close disadvantage" aspect of ranged attack in melee. The other two abilities of CBE (the loading properties issue and the BA attack via Hand X-Bow) either can be solved with an Artificer Infusion (Repeating Shot), or don't apply to the Lightning Launcher at all.
4. Elemental Adept (for Lightning or Thunder) can be helpful, but, it does come at the cost of being "locked in" to one variant of the Armorer over the other, and the Armorer's key here is versatility.
5. Medium Armor Master could be helpful for Stealth approaches involving the Infiltrator variant, but this, at best, only negates disadvantage for Stealth while wearing Heavy Armor. If the PC doesn't want to be locked into wearing only Medium Armor at best, then it's not worth it to pick up this feat.
6. Picking up Find Familiar for Magic Initiate: Wizard, in conjunction with the Homunculus Servant Artificer Infusion, as well as Replicate Magic Item (Bag of Holding x 2), can create a short-ranged (10 ft. max) doomsday scenario as a last-ditch option. This can be game-breaking, and can be done as early as level 2 with a Variant Human with the aid of a hired NPC or another party member. (If you're otherwise not trying to break the game, I'd take Shield instead, since Armorers don't get it normally.)
Those are great notes! Artificers are complex characters that can specialize or generalize in many directions.
@@FlutesLoot, when it comes to feats for the Armorer, I've found that feats that lead to specialization in a particular style of play tends to pigeonhole the PC and hamper the overall effectiveness of the Armorer subclass.
Which reminds me: for Magic Initiate Wizard, Silvery Barbs is also a fantastic option to consider in place of Shield (unless the spell is banned or strongly-nerfed at the table). Kind of goes without saying, but it's pretty nutty.
As for multiclassing with the Armorer Artificer, there's a couple routes to work with, but it's also partially dependent on whether or not the adventure goes the full 20 Levels, and partially dependent on who's in the party (as well as what role they fill). The issue with the Artificer, as a class, is that it's heavily rear-loaded, and so if the adventure expects to end at high tier 2 to low tier 3 play, multiclassing at that point might become a viable option (but not until after Artificer Level 5, when the PC gets extra attack).
The key to maximizing multiclassing here is to either have a good Dex., which isn't hard with Point Buy, or to stay within Int.
For PC's with a good Dex. (13 or higher):
Fighter... Eldritch Knight or Echo Knight. Eldritch Knight for Infiltrator and all-purpose mains, and Echo Knight for Guardian mains. (We already have a high Int., why not maximize & leverage its use?)
Rogue... Arcane Trickster or Soulknife. The psi dice from Soulknife can be helpful with skill checks, and limited teleporting is usually helpful too. But Arcane Tricksters make use of Int., just like the Eldritch Knight, and there's too many good Illusion/Enchantment spells to ignore, like Silvery Barbs and Sleep.
For PC's with a bad Dex. (12 or lower), or for PC's that want to stay SAD, the following Wizard subclasses seem promising with a 2 level dip: Chronurgy (Chronal Shift + Temporal Awareness) & Divination (for Portent), mainly.
War Magic is, oddly enough, a bit of a trap due to "Flash of Genius" at Artificer Level 7, and due to Artificers having the Shield proficiency already. Concurrently, Arcane Deflection would only be useful for help on saving throws, and subsequently, also conflicts w./the Shield spell. (I could see Arcane Deflection being used in place of Flash of Genius in an emergency situation specifically involving saving throws, in case the PC is out of uses for Flash of Genius for some reason, but that's about it.)
Late to the party, but i was wondering what are your thoughts about a Tortle artificer? Is there a viable build for that?
I’ve recently been obsessing about making a tortle artificer and have scoured RUclips in the hopes of finding a specific build but to no avail.
Would really love to hear your insight.
Haha I think the only Tortle Artificer I'd be interested in would be if the DM let me treat the shell as the Armorer's special armor so I could augment my shell.
@@FlutesLoot
Thanks.
Yeah, from what I’ve been learning, a little homebrew is most likely the best option. 😆
I wouldn't bother with Crossbow expert on the ranged Battle Smith, The benefits of Crossbow expert are bonus action attack, no reload, and fire in melee. Battle Smith already has two of those three.
Could certainly pass on it and do fine.
Since you mentioned metamagic adept, i was wondering how you'd rule storing metamagic modified spells into the spell-storing item. would you allow it? reasoning why?
agreed with most of your feat choices except those bonus action heavy feats you picked for battlesmith like crossbow expert.
My gut reaction is to allow the metamagic to be included in the spell storing item, but I'd have to think about it. I think it sounds fun for the players.
And fair enough! Are there better uses for the bonus action that I'm missing for Battlesmith?
@@FlutesLoot yeah stuff like twinned enlarge/reduce is fun.
for the battlesmith bonus action economy, aside from spells, you also have the steel defender commands.
@@TheRobversion1 ah that's right. I guess I prefer to have the Steel Defender stick around in front of me, but I haven't played that subclass yet. Maybe I'd change my mind if I did.
@@FlutesLoot one of my fave tactics on my steel defender is to:
round 1:
bonus action: command steel defender to grapple
round 2:
bonus action: cast sanctuary on the steel defender
free action: steel defender dodges and drags enemy around
@@TheRobversion1 ah I can see that being very effective!
It frustrates me when someone says "your not technically holding/wielding the thunder gauntlets." Why? Because so long as you make a fist you technically are! If you were just wearing a normal pair of gloves and someone tries to pull them off, they won't be able to, unless you leave your hand slack. Why? Because you are NOT holding on. Should you however clench your fist, they will be unable to pull them off. Why? Because you are now HOLDING ON to them. You have a portion of the objects within your clutches. There are no "if's" about it. The dual wielder feat absolutely applies to the thunder gauntlets. 🤨😮💨😒
P.S. I don't think it would work with a shield though. Because, if I recall correctly🤔, the thunder gauntlets specify you need to NOT be holding anything else with them in order to use them as weapons.
yeah it's a pretty minor thing anyway, might as well allow it
I straight up played a Warforged Artillerist/Swashbuckler like Cayde-6 from Destiny 2. Made for pretty comedic times.
That certainly sounds like a good time!
@@FlutesLoot Indeed! Even had a homunculus that was a robotic chicken! I named him Sir since he was the mastermind of the party.
Dual wielder still seems like a trap here.
"Each of the armor's gauntlets counts as a simple melee weapon *while you aren't holding anything in it* "
You wouldn't get any of the benefits of dual wielder while wielding a shield. If you want to forgo the shield to get a bonus action attack it works but it still doesn't feel like it's worth the feat
Yeah, skip that one. I disagree with myself in hindsight.
I noticed during the Infiltrator Armorer you kept saying Hand Crossbow, which Armorer isn't proficient in cuz they got heavy armor, so you would need or want a way to get proficient in that weapon
I always confuse the light crossbow and hand crossbow in my memory. Thanks for pointing this out. Anyone who wants to use a hand crossbow as an Armorer will need to multiclass or otherwise gain proficiency with martial weapons or the hand crossbow at least.
This is a good 2GS music video
I would love to know what that means! My quick internet search did not reveal it unto me.
@@FlutesLoot
someone put this video in a playlist for some reason
@@freezinghat5688 well that's interesting :P
I always wonder when people recommend Fighting Initiate (which I would love to take, but probably need to take a 1 level dip into fighter for the same result) for an armorer artificer, where do they get the required Martial Weapon Proficiency for this feat? I can't find this proficiency anywhere for an artificer. Or do people just miss or ignore it?
I can't speak for everyone, but for me, I've gotten so used to ignoring little requirements like that with those I play with that I forget the requirement exists. To me, requirements on feats feel frivolous after all these years. I recognize that I make mistakes due to this bias. I'd prefer to be correct by the rules, but I have my blind spots :P
I can correct my article!
@@FlutesLoot Awesome. Tbh, if I wouldn't currently play an (armorer, even though we just reached level 2) artificer that is going the ranged route, I wouldn't have caught that. I was planning on taking 1-3 level in Fighter, which my DM doesn't like (He currently decided to add things, so we can play until level 20, so taking Fighter levels could hinder me), maybe I can get him to ignore that prerequisite.
@@danilopapais1464 it's very reasonable to allow feats like that if a DM discourages multiclassing.
At armorer artificer how did you add fighting initiate when you doest have proficiency on martial weapon ?
Mistake
Are theres an update on artificer class that make change on proficiency ?
@@oranghutan3150 I meant I made a mistake
I don't like a hand crossbow for an Infiltrator Armorer. You need one hand for your spellcasting tool, so you've only got one hand free and I'd rather have a shield.
Instead seriously consider the Homunculus Servant infusion. You use your bonus action for it to very reliably do a small amount of force damage. It can hold a lantern or torch for you. It can use the help action or use objects. With an intelligence of 10 it's smarter than some of your party members. And it's great for fluff because you can customize your construct look like anything you want, not just a clockwork animal like the pictures imply.
That's a great note on the Homunculus! If a player would rather not invest a feat or two for a bonus action and Sharpshooter damage boost, the Homunculus can fill that bonus action for a bit more damage.
For the Infiltrator Armor, Armorers can use their armor as their spellcasting focus. Do they need a free hand? You can use the Repeating Shot Infusion so you can use a hand crossbow while still wielding a shield.
@@FlutesLoot Oh, you're right. Normally you don't need a hand, but my DM gave me an All Purpose Tool +1 that is too good not to use. That thing is OP: +1 spellcasting focus, an extra cantrip, plus it can turn into any tool and you are proficient in that tool (double proficient after level 6).
@@FacebookAunt nice!
Crusher. Polearm master, war caster with Booming blade.
Is the intent to use a quarterstaff and shield with that combination?
@@FlutesLoot yes. Couple it with a flying homonculus carrying flame thrower or protector canon and you have a serious front liner that despite only a single attack can get a boomingblade attack from action and can often get a second booming blade attack on reaction (each of which procs crusher for 5 ft movement away from your character and possibly causing enemy to make decision to move and proc boomingblade second damage) and bonus action activation of flame thrower or protector canon situated on the map via homonculus flight (as situation calls for).
I'm playing an autognome artificer in Spelljammer for my first campaign ever. I'm not sure if I should take a feat now that I've hit level 4 (if my DM allows it), or if I should take the opportunity to bump my Int on up from 16 to 18. I took Keen Mind at level 1 to get it to 16 from the jump, and I figured always knowing what time it is and which way is north would be appropriate for an android spelljammer pilot or navigator (I ended up being the pilot). I really want to take advantage of being a little robot and convince my DM to let me build the focus that will become my Arcane Firearm *into* my autognome's arm, so I can swap it out for my regular hand in combat and fire off spells like it's Mega Man's megabuster. I assume I'd want a wand for this, but can you recommend a more appropriate focus? Right now, I'm just using a screwdriver from my Tinker's Tools as a focus. Beyond that, I want to lay down walking turrets and provide support like an engineer in TF2, as well as the occasional heal. I can't attack with my Homunculus Servant in the same turn as with an Eldritch Cannon, but I can use it to remotely heal somebody with Cure Wounds.
Whether to take +2 to Int or a feat is up to you and what you want to achieve. If you want a statistical boost, take the +2. If you want some cool tricks and a slight boost for now, something like Fey Touched is great. There are other feats that could fulfill a niche depending on your interests.
Maybe you can use something like a lens as a focus to go for the Mega Man buster feel. You could also apply parts from machines as you go and adapt those for tool focuses, like how Mega Man steals boss abilities.
I have a maverick artificer
He is trying to give reason to law of attraction
He was raised by shaman and metal is the only way he can bring such thing that is reason
So my dm is getting Helania’s guide, which has magnetic spells and creatures
So he will using magnetism like how the planet uses it
To protect us from radiate particles from the sun
So a nova force field
A spiritual magnetic artificer
I potentially plan on giving my character infernal constitution to resist the elements so that it doesn’t interfere with his powers
Magma is the blood of the planet
The iron and nickel that flow in the planet makes it magnetic
So… blood magic will be needed
@@tristanderamos6455 that all sounds fun and flavorful! Nice work.
Crossbow expert not fully need as there an infusion that dose most of it.
It overlaps except for the bonus action attack, the primary reason I'd consider grabbing Crossbow Expert.
@@FlutesLoot I see
No archivist:(
What is archivist?
Arent you loosing alot of ability bonusses with all these feats? Would wanna use 2x a int and/or dex upgrade
Taking feats will result in lower stats, yes. Everyone must choose what they prefer.
artillerist , gunner feat?
Sure!
I am an artillerist i pick gun
The choice is simple! :)
Sorry man, if your recommending a feat ( duell wielder) that is complety on DM's discretion it soulden't be on the list.
Think of any DM that would allow you to wield the shield and attack with the same hand. Goes against the rules as written
You're right, I shouldn't include that recommendation. Even if a DM is ok with it, it's a can of worms for any character with claws or other natural weapons. I do think it's worth considering for an Armorer to use Dual Wielder to gain a bonus action attack, but not stacking it with shield shenanigans. I only recommend Dual Wielder in very specific instances like this, though I haven't run the DPR calcs on it yet.
@@FlutesLoot, the TL;DR on Dual Wielder is that it's bad, especially for the Armorer.
Even if Dual Wielder is allowed in the case of the Thunder Gauntlets, this locks the PC into the Guardian variant by default, as the Infiltrator's Lightning Launcher is a simple ranged weapon that the PC only gets one of. (You can't dual-wield a simple ranged weapon, much less one that's attached to the PC's armor, and the Launcher is also the key to damage for the Infiltrator variant.)
Further, the PC won't be able to use a shield while dual-wielding, unless the PC's race lets them have more than 2 arms. And most PC races (that I know of) don't have more than 2 arms.
Finally, this route also badly hampers spellcasting while in combat, due to Somatic components being compromised while dual wielding (unless the DM hand-waives that rule).
@@simondiamond9628 thanks for your input. On your last point, it's actually pretty easy to "juggle" a weapon and/or other item with Dual Wielder. In this case, the armor is the weapon, so freeing up hands for somatic components of a spell is simple to do. Are you seeing a hindrance to that process that I'm not picking up on?
To your first point, my intent was to lock into one of the armor options since the Armorer is often considered pretty weak. I wanted to see if I could make it shine a bit by specializing.
@@FlutesLoot, thanks for the response.
Re. my first point, I can understand the desire to move towards specialization, since some in the community would consider the Armorer weak (which it's not). Those people, in my opinion, have probably not played a Mountain Dwarf Artificer using TCoE's variant rules. :)
As to my second point about the Dual Wielder feat interacting the Guardian model, the TL;DR is that this is an RAW vs. RAI interpretation of the feat, as it pertains to the Guardian model, which will require further clarification from Mearls/Crawford, et. al.
I'll explain as briefly as I can:
1. The weapons in question (the thunder gauntlets) are not held or "wielded" in a way which the Dual Wielder feat verbiage requires. Even though the gauntlets are weapons as listed (simple melee weapons), in actual practicality, they moreso function like a pair of Cestus or Boxing Gloves (e.g., punching gauntlets).
2. Based on RAW, the Dual Wielder feat refers to *wielding* weapons within your hand (and not necessarily the hand itself), but the feat itself, based on my reading of it, only lets you use these weapons in conjunction with the rules related to Two Weapon Fighting. Further, the rules for two weapon fighting specifically refer to you physically *holding* the weapon, and to the best of my knowledge, wearing a weapon doesn't explicitly count. (You aren't really technically holding a pair of gauntlets or gloves in your hands, as much as you're wearing them, like cestus or boxing gloves.)
As a side point, the oracle text from the writers of 5e do often involve ambiguous wordings when it comes to their rules, from time to time, due to the sake of brevity. And it's one of which I can totally understand; few people naturally would want to sit down with a 500+ page rulebook that explicitly details "corner case" scenarios, especially ones detailing every single nook and cranny about a particular skill or ability. It would get exhausting, and WOTC is already pumping out loads of content between 5E and Magic: The Gathering related content. (Almost enough content to rival Disney Media Group if you ask me, but that's besides the point.)
TL;DR: Since this is an RAW vs RAI matter, I would say further clarification from the team would be helpful on this matter, though DM's in private games may hand-waive this issue in the interests of "rule of cool", which is well within the DM's purview. Private games are, after all, privately attended.
This being said, I generally foresee this issue like this coming up at a 5E A.L. game, where decisions from DM's are based explicitly on RAW, which is where my perspective is ultimately coming from. I can also foresee this being an issue in private games where DM's are hardliners for RAW as opposed to RAI.
In the future, if Mearls/Crawford, et. al., rule as you suggest in a future Sage Advice posting, and/or via Twitter, then I'm willing to stand corrected. But so far, I haven't seen anything from them that explicitly supports this direction, as per RAI.
Hope this clears things up. Again, if I'm wrong, I'm happy to stand corrected as that would be news to me, and especially helpful in games that I DM.
@@simondiamond9628 your points are crystal clear. I promise I do consider these RAW vs RAI matters, particularly with this instance. If I didn't communicate the caveat well enough, that's on me. I wouldn't want a player to think they can 100% do something with a character and then get vetoed.
Another example of me bringing this Dual Wielder feat up where I think I explained it better so players (including AL) will know it requires DM approval is my video on the Beast Barbarian; its claws are not held, but I explained why DMs can readily allow claws+Dual Wielder without fear of the game breaking. In fact, it enables a playstyle that is usually very ineffective compared to ranged attacks and heavy attacks when it comes to dealing damage (which two-weapon fighting feels like it should do).
Thank you for the thorough input! :)
Battle master with a pistol
Haha that's one way to play an Artificer :P
flute sloot lololol
LOL