Atheist Experience 22.48 with Matt Dillahunty & Geoff Blackwell
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- 35:50 Jonathan: AZ: Morality, Chess, Well-Being
1:01:35 Sean: Fort Bragg, NC: Weak vs Strong Atheism, Probability of God’s Existence
1:20:45 Jacob: WA: Evidence, Burden of Proof, Arguments from Authority, God’s Manifestation
1:56:25 Gerry: Seattle, WA: Christian ACA Member’s God/Devil Visions (possible troll)
2:16:50 Ronald: Houston, TX: Getting Through to Religious Parents
2:29:20 Jesse: NY: Is It Worthwhile to Talk To Family About Religion?
The Atheist Experience episode 22.48 for December 2, 2018, with Matt Dillahunty and guest Geoff Blackwell. American Atheists.
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The Atheist Experience is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
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“I had an experience with God that I know was God but I’m not sure it was God and I may have been drugged.” Sounds legit.
😂😂
And the devil definitely was trying to run me over, but it could’ve been a guy trying to harass me.
It would be very strange for an atheist to say to Jesus "don't look at me, I'm unworthy, I'm dirty". That sounds like something a believer would think of an atheist, not what an atheist would think of themselves.
@Anemo R indiNredi
@Anemo R indianresipe indianresipe0
@Anemo R zr
@A Light in the Dark
"Devout atheist" 😆 Praise Darwin! Hitchens be with you! 🅰️ 🙏
Too true. He fell in to the American version of White Jesus... lol Jesus wouldn't have had blond hair. Any of you should check out .. Derren Brown: How to convert an Atheist. He takes a real atheist and brings them inside a church... uses verbal cues, and gives them a god experience. Converts the atheist right there on the spot by making them feel the presence of god. It's simply amazing and just shows how any rational person can be fooled in to believing in god. No drugs or mental disturbance needed.
Amazing how a former white atheist in America had visions of Jesus with blonde hair.
That's how we know your visions were just visions.
@Samurai Jack Not necessarily. Maybe he discovered he had a black grand grandfather? That would make him not white, because whiteness is very divisive like that.
@Samurai Jack Sure, the very concept of "whiteness" is nonsense, but tell that to the nazis. Or rather, join me in telling that to the nazis.
Most white Christians are unwilling to accept the fact that Jesus was a Middle Eastern man
@Samurai Jack Oh you have nooo idea how disappointed you will be... And I mean, even if they were all dead, their definition of whiteness is the one that stuck. So most modern white racists hold to it, even if they (ostensibly) aren't nazis themselves.
You know all of these near death experiences, visions of Jesus, etc aren't real when people's stories don't match up.
If two people claim to see heaven or Jesus, then both of their descriptions should match. But they never do.
Then the whole Jesus thing. Really, a 2,000 year old dude from the middle east had blonde hair? Okay, I'm sure that happened. Love that old meme of how the only miracle Jesus ever did was being a white man in the middle east.
I've seen some really light skin middle easterners, but that's not the norm.
Gerry in Seattle.
With all compassion. Seek therapy.
Yes, therapy. Matt was doing kind-of the opposite by being such a binary-thinking simpleton towards Gerry - "You thought it was the Devil and now you think it was just a guy". Clearly what Gerry meant was it wasn't a Devil with horns and hooves, it was a guy he felt was the embodyment of the Devil. That should have been utterly easy for Matt to understand.
But yes, clearly Gerry's been programmed with Catholic fear fantasms, very likely as a young child, the poor chap. Best wishes to him.
Alexander LegisNonScriptae
Gerry needs a good slap!
@@larjkok1184 Your comment made me laugh.
@@stupidtreehugger" Lithium will clear that right up" Larry flynt.
@@larjkok1184 It would be difficult to not say "get a fucking grip" after the slap.
Jacob is halfway to atheism. Keep listening, reading and watching, Jacob, and you’ll find your way free of religious indoctrination. 👍
Jacob of Washington is an Atheist... it’s written on his heart. He just doesn’t know it yet
@Shane N I was thinking that myself. He certainly seems to be struggling with the reasons that he believes in God. Based on what he's saying he was brought up to believe in young earth creationism so he's made a bit of progress to break from that. It often takes people a long time to break from these ideas altogether.
I have hope that Jacob will call in and be a number lower on the 1 out of 7 Richard Dalkins scale.
Sounds to me like the fear caused by his early indoctrination is what’s holding him back.
@@josephcampisi5401..exactly..for most religious people this is what keeps us fr leaving the idea of God.
@@shookreeseeree4 Yep! This 1000%. I'm a former theist, and in some religious sects, there is a lot of fear and indoctrination you have to cut through in order to find the truth. Jacob is a very brave man for seeking out answers to the nagging questions from his religious indoctrination.
Unless Gerry is a troll, he probably requires some guidance to resources. If he is ill, he should be handled by a professional. Having a logical battle with him is counterproductive.
To argue with an intellect, sent a fool. Stubbornness surely will bring the worst out of everyone.
Poor Gerry has clearly been taking a shot every time Matt says, "at the end of the day." Great way to get hammered.
AllGodsMyth lmao 😂
Or "here's the thing".
Or "so hhhwhat?"
Or everytime Bkackwell says "Uhmmm"
At the end of the day he get drunk, though.
Gerry said “I was strapped to a gurney...”
He then followed this up with saying that when he thought he was going to see Jesus “I covered my face...” You can’t cover your face if you’re strapped to a gurney.
You can do all sorts of things in your mind when you’re drugged up on something like morphine.
I hallucinated that I had visited everywhere in the universe, every planet, asteroid, sun etc. funny thing was that’s not even what I hallucinated/ dreamt. I had thought I was flying and there was color everywhere. And when I was coming around my brain interpreted flying and seeing colors, as visiting everywhere in the universe.
The difference is I recognise it was an hallucination. Someone else might actually believe they had really done it. In some sort of spiritual sense, like astral projection or a vision from god etc.
@@JarlGrimmToys morphine doesn't really make you trip like that, its not a hallucinagen.. coming from an ex opiate addict
Don't presume arms included inside strap. Standard emt procedure would be to secure torso. And wouldn't be to constrain their limbs. Yes, if drugs they might figure go forsafety/no obstruction in ambulance. But only maybe.
@@JarlGrimmToys ok but he literally said he was strapped down then said he covered his face. If it was just n his mind maybe he woulda mentioned that? The dude is so full of shit!! “I don’t know what it was but it was jeeeebus” gimme a break. Dude is convinced by really a stupid shit. He’s a simpleton. He doesn’t even know what a friggen atheist is. Typical ridiculous simpleton who’s making really really bad arguments and claims
@@brucebaker810 ok let’s not assume he was actually strapped down then.. everything else he said was just utterly ridiculous! Very simpleton thinking this guy has..
Matt is a student and a teacher and he ain’t afraid to show that. Love this guy 😎 Dilly Dilly
It sounds to me like Gerry went through a traumatic experience that spurred on a psychological delusions, and the poor guy is still suffering from an experience he can't understand even now after his mind seems to have recovered.
"His mind seems to have recovered"🤣.
Not quite. I'd say he has a lot of recovery ahead of him.
He is experiencing tremendous amounts of cognitive dissonance and is thus having hard time putting these things into coherent sentences. He most likely is having rough time handling them inside his head.
Psychiatric drugs cause brain damage.$$$ just like religion.
"In my lifetime, I've never seen nature go out of her course. However, during this time, millions have lied and suffered hallucinations. So I assume that it is millions to one, that the person asserting a miracle, is lying or hallucinating." - Thomas Paine
Thomas Paine: a patron saint of Reason. :-)
First call @ 35:50
Thanks - I only watch for the calls so that saves me time. Atheists chatting about how religeon is screwing up the world is not that interesting.
Since a couple of months, every call is time marked in the description of the video.
@1999 That's good - and I dont think the show should just be about calls. But I dont tend to have much time to listen and I find the calls more interesting than the rest of the show.
thanks andrew 35 minutes in wow
Doin the lord's work!
Gerry is now nominated as the reason we don't smoke crack. I can't believe Matt let him finish his story.
LMFAO
He kept going and going and GOING
I'd be skeptic of anybody that begins by stating " I always tell the truth"
Scarface I always tell the truth even when I lie
Carlitos Darwin
I'm always skeptical of people that end their sentence with "I always tell the truth"
Red flag statement to me too.
When their religion is founded on lies and deception, it seems perfectly in line for the followers to lie and deceive.
@@vancedhex2856 100% and I'm speaking from personal experience. I used to sound like many callers and theists in the comments. It wasn't until I became completely honest with myself, humbly had no choice but to admit that I don't really have "the truth" and all the answers. I had to admit that I simply don't know for a fact the bible is true no matter how much I believed. I couldn't deal with cognitive dissonance anymore, and I couldn't accept the bible's hypocrisy/contradictions, nor could I respect or worship a narcissistic god who inspired that corrupt immoral book. I think many believers model themselves after a narcissistic deity without even realizing it as well, other than being dishonest.
Rando: Is this an actionable situation?
Geoff: Deoffinitely.
djiiiizes, why do I find this funny
Jacob is another prime example of how hard it is to get rid of irrational brainwashing.
Loved the call with Jacob, especially by the end. I think he's honestly thinking about it. He was a good caller, kind person, and it's real real hard to tear off that leach of religion. I hope he calls back and maybe is more ready to look at his preconceived notions.
His call made me so mad because he knows he has no reason to believe and knows the only reason he believes is because he was forced to. He is dishonest whether he means to or not, and that is so fucking sad.
He’s not being honest with himself in the call and it’s annoying that we all see it and knows it and no one calls him out on it
Gerry sounds like he tried to beat up the paramedic thinking he was Jesus.
Gerry sounds like he received a head injury, and is having trouble ignoring the emotional signals that he is receiving every time fear spikes his adrenaline.
Nah he's just a liar
I'm cracking up watching Geoff and Matt's composures as Gerry goes on and on.
If Gerry isn't a troll he should speak with a therapist. I worry for the guy :(
He's in a state of psychosis, likely drug induced. My roommate has been there and I've seen it all too much. He needs help.
That or a psychiatrist. I had a sleep paralysis episode very similar to his experience. My beliefs were shaken but I ultimately ruled that lack of sleep and prescription drugs were the cause.
These shows are getting weirder all the time. First you have philosophical discussions with arguments for morality and vague issues of what constitutes belief, then a complete maniac raving on and on without reaction. That last caller needs therapeutic help.
I personally blame the Suns shifting magnetic poles, The decrease in Sun Spot activity, Man made climate change, broadened cellphone reach, An increase in the median ability of reading and putting in numbers into Phones, unprofessional Media Outlets which are to busy to do the usual scare work that keep such people sedated. The current Presidents of the USA, Brazil, France, Saudi Arabia and Russia with the exception of the Russian President Vladimir Putin ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wouldn't really make any sense blaming him for something like this.
Honestly 2020 has some occult/astronomical connotation's and this is just the build up for it. Silly Plebs not believing in Cthulhu ccc... (∩｀-´)⊃━☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟCthulhu Fhtagn! And don't forget a Cthulhu fhtagn! a day keeps madness at bay
@zempath -Weak
This comment aged spot on...2020 is a complete shit show.
Matt's reaction to Gerry's story: PRICELESS 😃😃
Ummmm.....Gerry, dude....you need your psych meds! See a physician, quick!
I believe he started the story with “I was strapped to a gurney” so it might be he needs less meds, not more. Though that could have been part of the delusion, and not the origin of it. To be honest, I lost track of the ramblings after half a second.
Well he said he was actually on drugs. And hallucinations can really mess you up if you are not prepared for them. They feel very real.
That aside though. I am really thrown off by the fact that he says "you are not gonna believe this, the devil was driving a ford, Harley Davidson type truck." It's like, no dude the unbelievable part in your story is the Jesus and the Devil part. If I believe that you actually saw the devil then trust me, I am with you on the damn truck as well! I'm sure that if the devil exists he's got style xD
Satan drives a Ford... What the fuck dude hahaha
Akos Sam
It is rather strange that the devil needs a method of transportation, come on Gerry. Could it be that your brain is producing images that you’re already aware of the same way that Muslims see allah because that’s what their brains have heard about before. Why is it that his description of devil in a truck makes me think of Mad Max. The devil on the side of the road that was a homeless guy, uhhh wasn’t that the last scene in Bruce Almighty?? What it sounds like is a bunch of movies that the caller has seen and he’s making his own stories out of them. Probably a lot like how the buybull was written.
That guy is either on some serious drugs, or is bullshit. Or maybe both.
Knock Knock. . . . .Who's there?
It's Jesus, let me in. . . . . Why?
So I can save you. . . . . .Save me from what?
From what I'll do to you if you don't let me in!
Dammit for a second I thought he was going to say the devil rides a Harley, that would have been awesome!!
If I was the devil I'd want a motorbike that went round corners properly & turned fuel into something except noise.
@@bnipmnaaBig woop. Oh yeah, oooh!! 😂❤🎉.
Hey Matt! I usually just listen to the show via podcast, but... you’re lookin’ TRIM, buddy! Great work!
Caller “Gerry” seems like a pretty clear case of a person with schizophrenia.
agree
You shouldn’t be diagnosing people based on a phone call. At the very least it’s unprofessional.
@John John agreed.
@VC1 I understand what you are saying and I know how he comes across. He's clearly had some sort of an experience. I can sympathise with that to an extent because I've had powerful personal experiences myself (I used to be a practicing pagan with polytheist leanings). Those experiences seemed very real to me at the time. It's only later when I started to do some research that I realised how unreliable personal experiences can be and that those personal experiences I had were almost certainly not real.
Nothing was clear about Gerry.
Jacob was the most honest when he said that he believes because it was what he was taught. This is the reason that most Christian's believe. And it most often begins in childhood when they are the least critical and the most vulnerable. As with Jacob, it becomes the default position in adulthood. And if he is unable to challenge that position sufficiently, then he will pass on that belief to his own children in a similar way. This is one of the most unintentionally insidious characteristics of religion. I once heard a mother proclaim proudly one Sunday how her four-year-old son had that morning in church "invited Jesus into his heart". It was an utterly meaningless thing to a four-year-old, but the indoctrination had begun.
I don't mean to poke fun, but the one caller Gerry is almost certainly a paranoid schizophrenic. His stories are damn near perfect examples of both religious delusions, and paranoia induced delusions. Schizophrenics have eradic thought processes, jumping from one thought to another, often contradicting themselves. They desire to maintain delusions, especially religious delusions; So the story changes every time he retells it, adjusting details as necessary to make the story seem more compelling, or more credible.
He first describes his experience as witnessing the *voice* of God, but when he tells the long version of the story he doesn't actually describe having heard a voice. In fact he specifically says that he wouldn't even look at the man he believed was Jesus. Meaning that the only piece of evidence he based this off of was "feeling a presence". "Presence" isn't a sense lol. This delusion probably formed almost entirely as a result that he refused to look at the person. If he had looked up he'd have realized that either no one was there and feeling was a type 1 error, or that it wasn't Jesus. But because he never looked up to check, this delusion was never disproven to him.
His story about the devil is a similar case, except I'm not sure which version of the story, if any, is actually true to what he believes he experienced. He could very well have hallucinated, believing that some guy in traffic was the devil. But when Matt asked him to clarify he completely reversed his story, and admits that it was just a normal guy. Hard to tell whether he exaggerated the story to begin with, making up that he actually saw the devil in the flesh when it was really just a feeling, or if he said "it was just a normal" guy because he realized that Matt would think he was crazy if he says he saw the devil (and heard voices). Poor guy needs help. I hope his family sees this video.
his call was very sad to me
I agree that he has a serious mental health problem. I always feel empathy for the hosts when people like this call in. The hosts are not equipped to deal with issues like this. It's difficult to listen to, and they want to be sensitive. The best thing is to end the call as quickly as and respectfully as possible.
@1999 Did I not say "ALMOST certainly"? I explicitly qualified the possibility that he was not. I didn't say "Certainly", so I'm honestly kind of baffled by your question about how I ruled out those other possibilities. I never claimed I did. All of those things are possible. Trolling probably being the most probable of the bunch. But the symptoms he displayed, supposing he is being genuine, fill virtually every qualifying characteristic in the DMS guide for diagnosing schizophrenia. That can't be confirmed via phone call of course. All psychiatric diagnoses require face to face evaluation. Hence the "ALMOST" in my "Almost certainly".
@1999 Don't want to overstate my qualifications but I'm a student of the field, yes.
when i hear someone say "i am an extremely honest person" my bullshit detector starts a ringin'. It's like a death flag in a horror movie.
Jacob doesn't know what he believes and doesn't know what it would take to prove why he believes.....but then believes in a god that even he admits is unbelievable.
Ah the dangers of religion and blind faith!!
I love that Matt seems to be taking feedback seriously, and is actively trying to improve his recent attitude. It is once again a pleasure to listen. Great show!
Yes I noticed too. No swearing and no cruel put downs, insults, rants. He really has polished up his act. I think he has realised that as a frontman for atheism it is important to polish the presentation - as apologists will point to his unstable ways to the disadvantage of atheism. He doesnt need to do that anyway as he never lets anyone get away with anything, unlike Tracey and some of the other guys on the show.
Stuart I love his you’re done rants it cracks me up
When hasn't been a pleasure listening to him?
No I prefer the hardcore Matt. This is why people watch the show.
Jacob, consider this, it was your conscience telling you, ...not a God.
This section of a paper I just wrote for a metaethics class may help Jonathan:
To suggest that a subjective moral system is “dangerous and subversive of morality” is to say that, in the case morality is entirely a system of hypothetical imperatives, then there is no desire-independent reason an agent has to be moral. A colloquial rebuttal might be: “Well morality is completely subjective then; if people don’t have a desire-dependent reason to act morally then they don’t have to, just like if I don’t have a desire-dependent reason to wear clothing in public, I don’t have to. If morality has any meaning, some things must be morally right or wrong regardless of subjective desires”. In other words, a desire-independent reason to act morally must exist if morality is to have any value. What could produce a reason for acting external to the subjective desires of an individual, other than an entity with absolute moral authority? (Jonathan would say this is God). It follows that without some external reason to act morally independent of both desire and rationality, we are justified in claiming morality is at some level subjective. Why is it that some philosophers (and Jonathan) posit morality as meaningless without this external reason for acting morally, despite there being no evidence for such an external reason to exist? The default position should be to not accept the existence of external reasons for acting until such time as they have been demonstrated to exist. We only have evidence to support that reasons for acting are internal in that they are desire-dependent. We must then assume that morality is a system of hypothetical imperatives dependent entirely upon these subjective desires, until such time as we can demonstrate the existence of an external reason for acting morally. However, objective moral systems can arise out of subjective desires. Given an agreed upon subjective basis for evaluating the moral rightness or wrongness of actions (take wellbeing as this basis), we can then evaluate any given act to determine whether it is objectively right or wrong. It is certainly true that there is no external, objective reason to value wellbeing without making a circular appeal to wellbeing. Any agent who lacks this desire will have no reason to act morally. However, we could say the same about health, that an agent who does not desire to be healthy would not have reason to act in a way that maintains or increases their health. Yet the fact remains that drinking cyanide would be objectively detrimental to their health regardless of their desire, and failure to adopt health as an end in no way impacts the truth of this claim. Would we then call health subjective and thus meaningless because there are no external reasons for acting to increase health independent of one’s own subjective desire? Certainly not, and for this same reason morality is not meaningless simply because there are no desire-independent external reasons for acting morally.
Why then would an agent without an externally imposed absolute morality still act morally? We could assume that humans have developed certain evolutionary advantageous tendencies like altruism that give rise to consistent moral beliefs, which would solve the problem through some sort of biological imperative. Or, in the case that humans only care about their own self-interests, that moral tendencies like altruism can be reached through purely selfish reasons. We can begin with the simple observation that people act to fulfill subjective desires, and that a desire common to most humans is increasing their own wellbeing. If humans did not value their own wellbeing, they would not exist as a species. If it is the case that an agent wants to increase their own wellbeing, and they believe that the best way to increase their own wellbeing is by increasing the wellbeing of those around them, then an agent has reason to act altruistically to increase their own wellbeing. Concerning the motivation for acting, altruism can act as an end goal if there is no perceived reward to the agent taking the action. Altruism becomes the desire, regardless of the underlying biological cause of the desire. This makes the strong case that given people realize that externally imposed absolute morality does not exist, they would still have reasons to act morally, and thus the moral systems that we have in place would remain unscathed. It seems then that those philosophers concerned with the “subversive nature” of a subjective basis for morality have no ground to stand on, as they consistently fail to demonstrate the truth of their own claims from the very start and fail to account for objective moral systems which can arise out of subjective desires. In the case of Jonathan, he can SAY that without an absolute moral foundation all morality is just a matter of opinion, but that is an absurdly reductionist point of view that doesn't stand up to even the most basic of scrutiny.
ALL moral systems are subjective. It's just that some also wish to be authoritarian. Until one can prove there's a moral law giver....merely claiming your system comes from one does not make it objective. It's still just another subjective system that is preferred for one's own reasons...which invariably include the desire to impose your system upon others rather than reason with them. Whatever problems there are to solve with respect to subjective moral systems exist for all moral systems, including those supposed to be objective but are at the bottom....subjective like all the rest.
Gerry had to be the most interesting guest to date 😂😂 I’m convinced he was medicated before and after his accident and also during the call
If anyone knows who Gerry is, recognizes his voice, anything... please get him some psychiatric help NOW. He's obviously had a psychotic break and needs help. =(
I was thinking the same goddamn thing! If the next mass shooter is named Gerry, I am gonna shit my pants!
Good job with first call. Really nails it down well. Caller had nowhere to go with his sky daddy morality
I like how they just sit back and allow Gerry to ramble about his psychotic breaks for several minutes before saying anything
1.09. I note that Matt is being much more careful these days and I like it. When he says he is not convinced that any of the gods he has been presented with exist - and that he does not hold a position on any gods he has not been presented with. That really covers the possibilities. Theists now have to come forward with additional definitions so they can be considered one at a time which places all the obligations on them. All atheists have to do is sit back and look at the evidence for every defined god presented to them and decide whether any meet their burden of proof.
The Atheist Experience is my new church now....though the word church is used ever so sarcastically. Thanks for all your work and believing in yourself
Daniel, I think it's nice that a person finds their group. I'm a Christian but don't go to any church. The reason is, on various topics, they don't reason. Some points they do and some they refuse. I've given up trying, although I wished it could have been.
You don't have to answer this and I mean it, but what reasoning do you see with this group? I mean, like Hitchens, I could see why he would bitch about certain religious aspects and people and I agreed with a decent amount of what he said, but it reaches a point that bitching does not answer certain questions.
Example: To me, creation is a big deal. It's the start of it all. It's not just the start, meaning, I come to find out later that how people look at the start is how they'll generally set their pattern to look at much that follows. I have yet to come across any atheist answer about creation that makes any sense.
I can tell you why I don't go to church. Can you tell me why you like this one?
@@2fast2block
'Creation' doesn't make any sense, by definition.
It goes against all scientific evidence we have, and until a creator is demonstrated, it's no different from saying:
Pixies make flowers. Flowers exist therefore pixies exist.
Atheists don't discuss creation, we merely address it when theists bring it up. And then dismiss it for lack of evidence.
The universe exists, I'm sure you'll agree.
If you think it was created, you need to demonstrate that.
I see no reason to believe existence 'began' in any sense. Existence is.
Our universe is part ofmexistence, the way our solar system is part of our universe.
@@ricardovonkrypton8908, "Atheists don't discuss creation"
Some don't and some sure do. Most do by mocking with the word "creationist" or "creatard".
For those of you who don't want to discuss, I'd say in my opinion, your thinking is VERY shallow. Really, to not consider how we got 'all this' is ridiculous.
"If you think it was created, you need to demonstrate that."
Real science says nothing does nothing. Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the fools resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it.
"I see no reason to believe existence 'began' in any sense. Existence is."
Great, so counter the science I put with your science. No science fiction, no god of the gaps, no we don't know; give science.
@@2fast2block
You're right about the 'creatard' thing, and I don't think they get any respect except from each other.
My point was, we CAN only talk about it when a theist puts forward their god claims.
It's like when we discuss time-travel. What rules are we discussing? Back to the Future? Terminator?
The universe exists as part of reality.
I believe it exists.
But you claim that matter was 'created', and I don't believe you.
You claim reality had a beginning, and I don't believe you.
You are claiming that beginning was an act of creation, and I don't believe you.
@@ricardovonkrypton8908, "My point was, we CAN only talk about it when a theist puts forward their god claims."
Here's part of what I said, Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it."
This is the step I took when it was CLEAR creation could not have happened naturally by the science we have no doubt about.
"But you claim that matter was 'created', and I don't believe you."
"You claim reality had a beginning, and I don't believe you."
"You are claiming that beginning was an act of creation, and I don't believe you."
I have nothing to do with the science I provided in the regard if it's true or not. You're not believing me, you're not believing the science that we have no doubt about.
As I already said, "Great, so counter the science I put with your science. No science fiction, no god of the gaps, no we don't know; give science."
You have NO science to counter mine. You like living in a delusional state of mind. That is not an insult, it is a fact based on your way of thinking.
Delusional - characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.
All that being said, you do make a great atheist.
If I had a dollar for every time Geoff said "umm"...I could retire LOL!
In style.
Jacob is an atheist but he is terrified of the metamorphosis, so he clings to a mild form of theism.
I was taught the Pilgrims were great, wonderful people. I now know better and am able to change my mind.
Jacob “0n your Divine hiddenness... now where are my notes on Divine hiddenness?” Cracked me up a little. ;)
his notes were hidden
@@lastofusclips5291 bwahahahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Brilliant
Love it
Jacob was spewing some real Goobly Gop.
I really don't get why theists have such a hard time with morality without God.
In Jonathan's example, stealing from another family to keep his family alive, while the other family dies, is equally difficult on both sides. As a theist, he thinks it's wrong to steal. But because god makes it wrong at his core.
But the problem when taking about morality questions, they NEVER actually think about their situations.
As a theist he says it's wrong no matter what. They remove themselves from the situation when they think as a theist. It's an easy answer.
But if placed in that situation. Being that desperate, life and death, or not death, but seeing your family suffer. They never put themselves in that situation. If it's about me dying or them dying, I can let myself die for the good. But watching your son die will likely sacrifice your eternal soul to keep your son or family alive.
I don't think they honestly think about it. They don't think like they always ask. They call in saying, "I really can't think of a reason to not kill, or steal, or do what I want". They only say that because they already think atheist = not care. Like idiots that say they try atheism but they don't like being empty and negative and think that's what it is.
Great show this week. I enjoyed the legal conversations as well!
Jacob: "The reason I called is to learn." FART SOUND Gerry: "The devil was driving a ford harley davidson truck." Ha Ha great show guys, see you next Monday. Keep up the good work.
Sean & Jacob; There is a naturalistic presumption to everything because that's what we must live in. Until someone can demonstrate "something" else, over and above, and/or extra, we presume it's not there. Faith is just guessing. And we should only guess when there is no other choice.
That one caller that seemed so confused and distraught. He already doesn't believe. He just hasn't fully realized and accepted it yet.
Cherokee C. C., the caller Jacob? I agree. I believe he is holding it all together by wishful thinking now. I hope he is able to find some singularity of belief, purging dissonance. He seems somewhat tormented by it.
Jacob at least was honest in saying he believes in God even though he has no good reason. I hope he thinks of the courtroom analogy some more and concludes his god is not guilty of existing. If you don’t find evidence of guilt you must find not guilty.
Thank you Matt. DarkMatter2525 and yourself woke me up.
What argument(s) sparked the change? Just curious. I am an atheist since age of 18. In college, I just dropped the belief. No evidence. No demonstration. My life literally did not change one way or the other by "god not being on my side"
@@derekmizer6293 I dedicated my life to save as many people from damnation as I could. If I had the opportunity to save someone, but I failed to act, I would be responsible for their soul. I *accepted* responsibility for their soul.
I wanted to either find or create the most effective system of arguments that would become the holy grail of what I would soon learn is called Christian Apologetics. To design the most effective approach, I needed to learn every argument for and against both views. So, I learned. And, I did it. I created an effective argument. It wasn’t the holy grail, but it was effective, nonetheless.
I felt dirty, and I couldn’t shake the feeling. With everything I had learned, reality isn’t what I had believed. It was both easy to accept but painful to acknowledge. I remember the day I actually, finally said the words out loud. It seemed like everything changed colors, it was so surreal, yet clear.
What argument(s) sparked the change?
Yes. All of them. And, the humorous ridicule inflicted by DarkMatter2525 and NonStampCollector. They helped put many things in perspective.
I'm a physician and a I just listened to this recording today, about 3 months after the call. Please contact this poor guy again! I believe you were very wrong to speak to him like that.... He is very clearly confused to the point where he desperately needs to speak to a psychiatrist. I think he's in a very fragile state and may even be schizophrenic. Please act immediately. I worry about this caller.
For two hours and 23 minutes I was like, "Who is Ethan?" What are they talking to him about?? 😂😂😂
I brlieve Gerry is describing a psychotic break. I knew a schizophrenic when I was nursing who talked exactly like that about Jesus and "the devil."
Stargate series had a gem of a quote I think.
There is no absolute truth, only truth that applies.
Gerry is not right 🙄😒🤔
Someone should ask Jacob what debate he's heard where the theist made a good argument for god's existence.
The judgement depends on indoctrination. Everything seems nice and shiny when it fits your belief system.
A lot of people still don’t know the difference between “theory” and “scientific theory”. I think we should find a way to change the term we use for scientific theory seeing as it confuses so many people that are uneducated on the subject
If they won't even educate themselves on what a theory means, what makes you think they'd educate themselves on a new word for it. They'd likely just adopt that word and start using it incorrectly also.
This is much more complicated than it needs to be. It is perfectly possible to care about others and take care about others without thinking about self interest.
a guy in a truck is a revelation hahah
I think that guy needs genuine professional secular psych help
@@redpillpusher Some people that call in I feel like could really benefit from secular counseling, can be quite scary sometimes.
Dude, it wasn't just a truck, this was one of those Harley Davidson trucks, with like the nice shiny tail pipes and stupid looking step rails, and a fuckin hard shell bed cover. So yeah man this was a one off experience for this walking issue.
dedash agreed
That first guy honestly asked how is choosing who lives and dies a moral question? What the fuck man?
Gerry should not be driving if he’s having hallucinations/ visions.
Even if it’s true and he is really seeing the devil and Jesus while he’s driving. He shouldn’t be driving and Jesus shouldn’t be appearing to people while they’re driving, he’ll cause an accident.
I have to say I suspect one of the EMTs was trying to help him put an oxygen mask on or something and he was like dont come near me Im dirty Im not worthy and she was like what the fuk I do not get paid enough to deal with this shit.
I think RUclips has a way to "mute/hide" responses as well.....such as Living Waters did with my posts. I can see them on the channel I used to post the responses, but could not find them when I logged into the same video on one of my other two accounts. There's little that can be done about this, of course, but it is certainly a type of evidence that they [Living Waters] are afraid of what I was posting,...because it had no foul language at all. On some level, I consider it a "win".
A cricket metaphor from Matt 'sticky wicket, very good.
Scroll to calls : 36:00
In the 1971 movie Duel, the devil is supposedly the driver of the truck that stalks the main character throughout the movie. The truck in the movie wasn't Ford-Harley Davidson though.
Good film. Steven Spielberg's directorial debut.
"Haven't found sufficient evidence against Bigfoot, so therefore do you believe in Bigfoot?"
Excellent new debate tactic. Thank you.
No evidence against big foot? Then bigfoot has to be real!!! Praise Jeebus
The intro music is so great, but it makes me feel kinda sad for humankind :, )
I have a sneaking suspicion Gerry was given a does of Ketamine
I think JACOB was ready to shake off his belief, but was gathering assurance that it was ok. Would love to know how that went and how he is today 2021
Morality is very simple. It's about approval.
Do you approve of it ? Do I approve of it ? Do most people approve of it ?
Do you disapprove of it ? Do I disapprove of it ? Do most people disapprove of it ?
The answers will tell you the truth.
The fuck??? They were live. Just missed it.
Gonna watch it now
Man, love the channel and Matt of course but the intro song is so cringy.
Gerry, if you were strapped to a gurney in the ambulance, then how were you able to cover your eyes?
Unfortunately, Gerry could possibly be suffering from a mental health condition, and he needs to see a psychiatrist.
Gerry had the warm feeling of drugs kicking in, while his body was coming off of adrenaline rush.
Sometimes Matt (and Sam Harris) should address the point that even though it seems commensensical to them (and many others) that wellbeing is a reasonable goal for morality, it is still the case that many (perhaps most) professional philosophers do not hold such an ethics (i.e., a majority of philosophers do not seem to be utilitarians).
a lot of it comes down to the poor definition of morality when it comes down to it. I think Sam, Matt and others should disregard calling it "morality" and instead call how we should form our ethics by "the system we should live under to promote flourishing for the group"
It is not their position that morality being tied to well being is commonsense to them or anyone.
They say 1) well being is colloquially almost always what morality is referring to and 2) Why bother talking about anything else with regard to how to live life?
It's like asking them to address the point that "even though it seems commonsensical to them that a body performing optimally is a reasonable goal for health, it's still the case that many..."
@@condorman6293 If the stuff you talk about in both points 1 and 2 cannot be filed under "common sense", then I don't know what common sense is.
@@BiznizTrademark That's a good point. I rescind that argument.
I think more important is that those philosophers also are using well being as the standard and are just discussing different methods to accomplish it. Utilitarianism is explicit in considering it, but I don't know of other moral systems not having to do with making lives better for people.
The few that don't are simply defining the word morality differently, but who cares?
All this applies to "health" too. If someone says "health" is not about the quest for optimal performance of human biological systems, then why are you even talking to them about what you think is health?
Jonathan was basically describing the Plank of Carneades situation.
that one guy with the crazy story about the Ford Harley Davidson truck LOL sad
Gerry, don't you know that the Devil prefers small British racing bikes like Norton and Triumph, not Harleys ...
Love you Matt
Is there a new improved version of LSD out there? :)
Just hypothetically here...
If there were something, say, 180- 245% better than LSD...mightn't the people who knew about it...be ordered not to tell -you- anyone about it?
Or...
OR...
Decide to mess with the minds of random YT commenters.
Matt and Geoff: sounds like a classic cartoon series :-) Matt showed incredible patience during this show. I don't think I could have lasted as long with Gerry.
Hey Gerry, that feeling is fentanyl lol, not the holy spirit. 😂
I would like to know why he was strapped to a gurney in that ambulance to begin with. Baker Act? That would explain a lot.
Why didn't you use pixies instead of big foot, mat??
Matt*
the question is, would you kill the father of a child in order to steal their food since your child is dying of starvation?
Well being is of a value, unless you do it, your wellbeing is finished. It appears that this act is moral.
No one despises you Matt.
The guy sounds like he was trying to get himself off while on the phone. Just saying. Lol
That's what I was thinking like holy shit is he edging himself as he recounts his story?
@@ZephyrusAsmodeus 😂
Jacob is like that robot from Futurama: "I choose to believe what I was programmed to believe!"
Gerry in Seattle, got ahold of some really good mushrooms.
Gerry, I suggest you cut your shroom intake in half.
I don't remember where this came from but, sometimes all you have are bad choices, but you have to choose. You make the choice you can live with.
when you're dead you don't know you're dead. all the pain is felt by the people around you. the same thing happens when you're stupid.
Priceless 😂
Funny that the " Cezare Borgia " Ikon always pops up in peoples halluciantions ... Even if JC ever existed : there are no pictures of him dating from the period he so-called walked around.
My solution, "Pass. I'm not the one deciding who lives. You're making the decision about who dies."
I was thinking about calling in. Wish I had.
Oh Gerry... Gerry, Gerry, Gerry.
The way Gery speaks is typical for schizophrenia and similar states with a weakened connection to reality. The hosts would gain from doing just a little research on the subject including how to handle it - both more gently and quicker. I feel for Gerry here.