Closeted Atheist in Christian nation. I Love and watch the show from Zambia. I have a resolution to save money for an international call and call in. You guys are reaching more than you know
That's sad if you have to save up money just to try and call them. Maybe you could join the Discord and talk to some people for free there. Not sure if the hosts are ever on there but you could always send an email as well.
I just wanted to say I went to my dads funeral today and right on cue the pastor said "Jim had his reservation set for heaven, do YOU have your reservation set? I am sure hed love to see you there, we have pamphelts in the lobby with a way you can contact our church and talk to a pastor" I almost walked the fuck out...
I would've walked out, and maybe waited for family and friends, or just hooked up with them at the reception. I also would've scolded the minister for proselytizing at my father's funeral service.
@@johnbell6114 Me and my gf are the only nonbelivers in a mass of hardcore believers. It was not a fun or welcome experience. Especially since my dad remarried into this weird ultra religious bunch. Just a total disaster of clueless people.
@@mischarowe I was making a bit of a joke. The vast majority of parents have told a child something like “stop running, you’ll fall over”, and how many children have carried on running until WHAM! But seriously everyone should see the flaw in that comment, because we were all children once. It would be extremely concerning if there was a child who believed everything they were told. It would set them up to be dangerously gullible, and get taken advantage of.
I tended to be that way as a kid. But I knew TONS of kids, especially at church, that didn't buy it for a second. Come on Andrew. Is he blind or just dishonest?
@@KevinChantal I had a similar moment. One day I lost my wallet or keys so I prayed to God to help me find them. Immediately after I prayed I said "Why does it feel like I'm just talking to myself?....Because I probably am." That was a big "oh shit" moment for me. I was still religious/spiritual for a few more years after that but it was a pretty big seed of doubt for me.
@@DrKlausTrophobie Read one of those audio books of it. That's what I did. It was still a pain in the ass to get through though especially in books like Numbers.
I spend more time shopping for my dog than for myself. And dog food? It ain't cheap. Toys? Vet? Same. My dog definitely is not a slave LOL And that just material part. Time spent petting her, playing with her, cleaning after her? If anything, I'm here to serve *her* needs. But that's OK - her joy when I'm coming home from work, her trust and love is more than enough to repay any debt.
Andrew, I was such a child! Raised in a Christian household, going to church, sunday school, a Christian primary and secondary school. And yet, I never believed, and from the age of 10 was aware that I was a non believer. I started to refuse to sing a long in church and annoyed most ministers during bible study with questions and discussions. My mother came from a very religious family, and yet none of her 8 brothers or sisters became religious.
I stopped believing when I was 12 from reading the Bible. I didn't know anyone who didn't believe so it took a lot of courage for me to go my own path in the closet.
@@melchior2678 theists: “I don’t know, therefore god.” Atheists: “All god claims either directly contradict all observable reality, or describe something there is zero evidence for in the known universe. Therefore I see no reason to think a god or gods exist until evidence indicates this.” Agnostics: “Meh. Maybe something completely without evidence or logically contradictory exists. Dunno.”
I'm glad they gave Andrew enough time to get to that "I'm just scared" moment. That pause after "what are you scared of?"... I really felt that. Much love to Andrew, I hope you make it man. ❤
@Andrew Boettinger there's more easy access to a really good community of atheists than ever before who are ready to support you and remind you that you are not alone in this.
Shedding the fear of hell (beaten into me) took several decades. Remember, Andrew, feelings are in your mind, and not necessarily caused by real things.
They actually may have. A lot of the terms that religious apologists use are geared towards keeping their "flock" on religious sites when they try to research. Leads to their research never getting beyond AiG or other "sources".
Most don’t know HOW to do proper research. Even for those that do, religious topics tend to be a massive blind spot for most believers. Even those who are more skeptical in regards to most other ideas they are confronted with daily overlook the evidence against their own religion, though those people are often steeped in indoctrination.
I have been becoming more of an atheist as time progressed over the past few years (basically meaning I've become more hardened in my convictions), but I can't say that it's really the result of research, because it's not really something that you can research. It's more like I've been listening a lot to atheists and agree with so much of their philosophies.
Old video but this first caller is so much of me, I held on to catholicism for so long due to an intense fear. I lost sleep crying because I thought I was "a bad kid" all I wanted to do was the right thing but was constantly terrified. The only peace I had was gained when my stepfather arrived and switched us to an assemblies of God church. I realized the fear was absured and it was demonstrated to me clearly that it was all a load. My heart goes out to fearful theists. No one should live with this.
A much more substantive talk than usual. Those of us raised on fear can find it almost impossible to stop fearing this god's wrath. I feel for the caller.
@@jamessmith1845 it’s nice of you to say that, but I’m not his counselor. The lack of self reflection was annoying. It wasn’t that he was scared it’s that he thought it was weird not to be afraid of his imagination.
One of my best friends is a trans woman (but uses they/them currently). We met in college when they were living as a man. The first time they EVER did anything fem it was them painting their nails when they came over to hang out one day. I saw it when they walked in and didn't even think before saying "dude, your nails looks awesome". A couple weeks later they came over in a dress, I couldn't imagine ending a decades long friendship over something so silly and arbitrary as gender, they're still one of my best friends, and even came to my wedding in a beautiful dress! Those of you who hate my friend and people like them, can I ask why? How does my friend wearing a dress vs pants change them for the worse?
The irony is that the people it bothers are always crying about their rights, yet somehow they can't get over the fact that a trans person can have rights. These same nutbags that want freedom of religion are against abortion because it goes against THEIR religion. So much hypocrisy.
@@RaveyDavey It depends on how you look at it. The sex they got assigned at birth was male and nothing will ever change that. Then the question is "will they always be male". Well, it depends on what you mean at that point. Their sex won't change, because we're not able to change someone's sex at this point in time. That's not to say a trans woman is the same as a cis man. A trans woman can take hormones and take surgeries, among other things, to make themselves more feminine. If you look at the brains of trans woman, they'll look more like cis women brains than cis men brains. So to say that trans women are men is ignoring scientific evidence, unless maybe if you're purely talking about sex and not gender.
Andrew I was 8 and a Priest came into my religion class and started talking about original sin. I looked around at the other kids to see if they were actually buying into the nonsense. It was clear that inheriting someone else’s sin was a manipulative move to control people. I never believed in any religion ever. Not for a second! Sorry Andrew you have to think for yourself.
I believed when I was very young but around 10-12 I started to doubt. I figured it out despite being surrounded by indoctrination. I was raised orthodox and as a child decided to not believe what I was being taught… because like you said, it was obviously false
@@friendo6257 i was lucky, when i was a child, not one of the people around me claiming to be christian acted christian, now i have a saying, the ony way to be a good christian is to be atheist.
Hearing Andrew letting go of arguments and justification for a god's existence and finally admitting that he's just scared is as relieving as it is heartbreaking.
To be fair that is where he started. We need to have empathy. Christians have been brainwashed from birth by their families, their peers,their culture, their schools, their politicians, in America even by their money.. it must take a lot of strength to break free. This guy has nearly done so and need advice about how to get rid of his vestigial fear. Instead of helping Matt goes into his usual blend of logic chopping, interruption, insult and refusal to listen.
@God's Servant possibly true. But religion is the most common form of brain washing. I suspect that more than half the world’s population have been duped into the idea that there is a magic person in the sky. When we grow up we stop believing in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. I sometimes find Myself doubtful whether people REALLY believe the religious stuff or if they are just clinging on to a belief in the same way that a child tries to cling on to the possibility of Santa for some time after they are really sure he is fiction.
@God's Servant I don’t think your chicken sandwich idea holds up. For a start it might actually be unite a good chicken sandwich. Secondly we probably wouldn’t be convinced on faith. We would want evidence. Thirdly that evidence could easily be obtained. Fourthly, and this goes towards answering your point about whether religion is the most common form of brain washing, fewer people over history have been exposed to the idea of the chicken sandwich. While I accept that there is an element of conditioning in some advertising I think it falls short of brain washing. However, most of humanity grows up in cultures which accept, promote or insist on religious doctrines. In the USA no presidential candidate would dare to admit he was atheist. The money bears the words “in god we trust”. In the Uk there mus be a daily act of worship in schools In many Arabic countries the legal system is based on religion. All over the world children are taught the stories of their country’s religion almost from birth.. in many countries dire punishments are promised, in this world and the next, for disobedience or disbelief. At least the chicken sandwich probably exists
@God's Servant Jesus is part of the holy trinity. Along with god and the Holy Ghost he is integrally part of god. Tat is what I understand of the theory of it. He is god. As such he must take some responsibility for expecting Adam and Eve to behave themselves BEFORE they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, for genocide in the flood and in Sodom and Gomorrah, for his acceptance of slavery, for the unequal miseries that his imperfect world inflicts on his imperfect human creation, for brain cancer and earthquakes, for his insistence that we worship him , for his willingness to condemn us to everlasting torture if we don’t. Pretty monstrous I would say.
@Andrew Boettinger I'm in the same boat. I could relate so much to your call because I keep going through all those mental hoops the same way you did, and end up just admitting that I have no reason to believe but Im scared of the "what if" scenario, and I don't know if that will ever go away. Stay strong brother, let's hope we get through this.
Sam, when people didn't know what caused lightning, they came up with gods doing it. That's supernatural. Were they correct? When they thought epilepsy was caused by demons, were they correct?
Devils Advocate: Well no but you can’t prove it’s not supernatural! I mean no one REALLY knows where lightning or epilepsy come from. I mean I don’t think those things could possibly be natural! You could be believing a lie! Do you just believe it because other people say so? Can you think for yourself? You don’t really know if scientists are telling you the truth! Thinking lightning is natural is crazier than thinking lightning is supernatural!
Devils advocate is supposed to present a stalwart version of the opposing argument, not throw out random relativistic claims about knowledge. We do know where lightning and epilepsy come from, but assuming we didn’t, being a kind of atheist in regard to people pretending to know how it was created without any evidence still would be the most intellectually honest position.
"Kids only believe what they're told" Can't say I ever believed what my parents told me about christianity. And at the ripe old age of 12 I turned to my mom one fine sunday morning and told her I didn't want to go to church anymore.
Andrew PA: I was kicked out of Sunday school for asking uncomfortable questions ... according to my mother, I did not believe in god from I was about 3 years old. She says I never believed, but I expressed that I did not believe from the moment I had concepts to express it, despite growing up in a Christian family.
Arden is really awesome. I hope she comes on again. She works really well with Matt. This episode was Zen Matt and I think the team of him and Arden might've helped that happen. This was a pretty chill video to watch. Thanks for the hour and a half distraction from life. :)
My impression is that what he was getting at is when one has spent your life believing something adamantly, how is it not painful or difficult to walk away and not be somewhat still gripped or impacted by those beliefs. My answer to him would have been, I have heard very few atheists who have ever said that it wasn't difficult. Matt is the exception. When he talks about leaving the faith, it sounds as if it was a light switch for him. One moment he believed adamantly and the next moment he didn't, and it was all fine. I struggle to believe him when he says this; I wonder if it's what he tells himself. After all, beliefs are something that physically alters our brains and our body chemistry. They impact the essence of who we are. Changing them is almost universally a difficult process. This is one of the things that confuses me about Matt because he will insist it was a simple thing for him only saying it's difficult after his co-hosts mention that it is difficult. It sort of reminds me of watching people who have narcissism or antisocial personalities trying to relate when people have emotional ties to other people. It's not something they feel or have ever felt so they can't relate.
I love that Robert proved at the end of the call that this was not about intellect for him despite bringing that type of argument. When his position was exposed as unsupported by sound logic he closed his ears and ignored good epistemology in order to keep his belief. That's an emotional reaction. Not an intelligent one
Obvious he was on a script. And then when asked to give his OWN thoughts off script, he stumbled out of the conversation like a fall-down drunk trying to leave a bar. And the best thought he had was " you're not speaking the language of religion" . No shit. Matt was speaking the language of reality. A language Robert is obviously not fluent in.
He’s in good company. William Lane Craig even admits his belief is warranted without reference to evidence or argument. (This also makes his professional career merely self-justification, and otherwise a complete waste of time.)
@@ooloncoluphid1942 I never understood why people think that guy is smart. Not a single one of his arguments is something I would expect from anyone over 15 years old. His debate with Dr. Carroll was particular useful in reinforcing this thought.
I think Robert’s thinking though the call was… Give an irrelevant backstory. Give a quote. Make an assertion. Give a quote. Give a quote. Make an assertion. Mumble the “agree to disagree” cop-out. Realise you’re wrong but sign off like a clown.
But around minute 18 I fear he starts to lose . . . patience? compassion? and I feel for the young man who called. Although a few minutes later Matt seems to recover the Zen.
Listen. If that guy is now going to be afraid of the boogie monster, he’s likely to be afraid of anything anyone would propose to him anyway. Matt’s logic was totally sound. His brain wasn’t picking it up though.
@@HarryNicNicholas The human body contains about 30-trillion cells, it also contains around 35-trillion bacterial cells....you're more "not human" than human ;)
Hell used to bother me after I realized the big lie. They drill that in deep, the bastards. Then one day I realized I don't fear Thor's hell. Yahweh's hell never bothered me for a second after that. Hells die with their god.
as soon as i no longer believed in the god i no longer believed in his hell. no god, no hell. I don't really understand how one could no longer believe in the god that created said hell but still believe in the creation.
@UCZmM1lqK1ZvtIgQrYSoTtOw Evolution is a fact numbskull. That's why it hasn't been overturned in over 150 years and even Christian biologists support it. Look up Dr Francis Collins who was the head of The Human Genome Project and is a Bible-believing Christian. You must be an American due to your woeful education.
@@walnutoil100 You must have been born without any sense of shame. Your trolling has been completely debunked to the point you’ve been reduced to having a meltdown tantrum so many times that we’ve all lost count. The fact that you’re willing to keep showing your face here is totally embarrassing.
Jesus could magic up wine, and a bunch of bread and fish, in a time when we have very detailed histories of Alexander and Julius Caesar, the "All-Knowing" god didn't think to make Jesus do this in Rome with about a million people watching at the Circus Maximus?
To Hank: watch the documentary 'Botany of desire' it talks about how plants have used humans (manipulated them with sweet scents, vibrant colors, fruits, etc.) To get across the world. Kinda like how apple trees have managed to get nearly everywhere on the planet.. where people are at least.
You should look into fungi! They may just be the true rulers of the world, they even control the plants! I myself may be wrong, but first I need to learn more about viruses. They are some insidious little bastards!
@@Bob-of-Zoid The latest National Geographic magazine has an article about Viruses and how they fit into all life. You might be interested in reading it.
If I may observe gently, your language about plants using people or trying to spread their range is misguided assignment of agency. Evolution has no goals or plan or desire, other than replication.
@@livi6440Which claims were that? I mean, I'm pretty sure that it's happened because nobody is ever right about absolutely everything all of the time. I'm still curious about the claims she's made.
@@dmitrirozhenko7841 that's a 'thinking word'. It means she's taking the time to choose her next words carefully, and I, for one, will do my best to NEVER fault someone for taking extra time to be sure they are communicating as best they can.
@@deenman23 I'm gay, so i'm attracted to men. Arden is a trans woman. Men who are attracted to trans women are straight or bi. There is a reason that on most porn sights trans women porn is a sub genre of straight porn, not gay porn. Keep your ignorant hateful bullshit to yourself.
@@deenman23 bullshit. You were intentionally misgendering Arden and ignorantly stating that men who date trans women are gay. Like I said, I am gay. Gay men like other MEN, not trans women. I sincerely doubt you were complimenting them and I'm pretty sure you know that
Andrew if you are reading this ……I was raised in a southern baptist church but by age 10 or even younger, I struggled to believe their teachings. Not sure I ever believed it. The fear of hell part was the real trick. Took time to not be terrified of such.
I don’t believe him, full stop. He lives in a country that is pretty much 50% atheist, but gives the impression he’s never had this conversation…. I’m not buying it.
Andrew, I went to church every Sunday when I was a kid and thought all of the Bible stories they were teaching us were bullshit but I was too shy and introverted to question any of it. All these stories sounded stupid and implausible.
I'm glad I came across this video. I'm an atheist - and very embarassed to say that I have a fear of hell. I know, it's totally irrational, not reasonable and not logical. Yet, I can't quite shake my fear of going to hell. The funny things is, I was raised as a very mainline liberal Protestant, and my parents didn't drill this fear into me (though my mother never quite overcame her southern Babtist roots and did definitely beleive in hell). So, to the caller Andrew: you're not alone, my friend.
Seems to me most religious people (like Andrew), deep down, are aware their beliefs are totally irrational, and yet they still cling to them because it gives them some sense of comfort, eases their fear of mortality, or gives them a sense of superiority.
While I think that’s possible, I don’t think it’s a particularly useful argument. Theists often use the exact same statement toward atheists. IE: “Deep down you know god exists but just deny it.” Claiming to know what’s in someone’s mind better than they do is kind of a dead end.
@@MrShigura Can't disagree, I could not say it's true of all people, but I do think most (or a fair number? I don't know) religious people realize that their belief is based solely on faith and hence is irrational.
@@MrShigura _> Theists often use the exact same statement toward atheists_ They use lots of statements without any good reason, pretty much like parrots. That doesn't make the statement itself invalid when used properly, i.e. to describe theists accurately.
Yet, it is totally rational to believe you are the opposite gender. Go Alana McLaughlin! You choked out that biological woman in MMA and we are all so very proud of you! I could not help but notice McLaughlin's "End Trans Genocide" t-shirt even though most trans people are killed by their lovers and not conservative hetero people. Now we just need to end oppressive domestic abuse laws for true equality.
@@Conserpov Except the reason it’s invalid is it relies on the idea that you know what is in someone’s mind better than they do. If that’s an unsupportable position to argue from, that applies regardless of which side is using it.
I really like how hard Matt went in on Andrew, but pulled back the reigns. I thought we were destined for hanging up, but instead it sounded like great breakthrough. Arden is a good balance for Matt!
Thanks for your comment. I'm glad I saw it. It made me go back and listen to the rest of the call after getting frustrated with Matt's harshness. Arden's compassion was nice and helpful, I think.
@@twelvesmylimit I feel you - it's always hard to listen when Matt has started to get frustrated/lose patience when it's so clear (to me at least) that there's just a communication issue or something similar going on, but the other person does still appear to be an honest interlocutor. I don't blame Matt, after so many years of dodgy theists, but sometimes he definitely jumps the gun... :'S
13 years later and I am still scared of airplanes noise when it's too early in the morning, because my sunday school teacher used to say that we would hear many airplanes when the second coming would happen.
They don’t treat us like slaves, they are very loving animals if you treat them the way they should be treated. Feed them well, give them a lot of attention and they are great animals.
@@friendo6257 Not sure if that's the case, the more I listen different calls, the more I start to understand, that it is not so easy topic as some of us think it is. Even while listening, it's not always easy to put the puzzle-pieces together, if you catch my drift. Some people need more time to analyze and think things through. Andrew just seemed to have shit-ton of questions and no-one to answer them. And while he tries to put the corner-pieces together Matt throws more pieces to him, so he can get his puzzle together, but it's hard to complete this sort of puzzle with limited time. :)
Fear of hell was a hard thing to leave behind, even though I'm convinced I was brain washed. I'm so glad it doesn't trouble me anymore. Can I get a high five> lol
Hank: Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” So god not only condones slavery of people, but gives us the right to do what we want with the other animals of this world. You can’t have it both ways Hank . . .!
God can do anything including putting Hell in a magical dimension outside of normal space and time, is what they would say, if they bothered to even think about it.
Great episode…. One of the best! I love Rivalod… I think he’s an honest interlocutor. He’s coming from a place of darkness and he’s slowly realizing. I love to hear that. Whatever it takes for him to come out of the darkness, I support him and will be patient. I think one day he’ll recognize that you don’t need to believe in anything without evidence.
Is there a first action from god? Yes = So before his first action he/she/it was doing nothing? No = So that means there are infinite actions until he created the universe so he will never reach the action of creating the universe
Sam's argument about supernatural simply repeats all of human history. Things like lightning, thunder, earthquakes and volcanoes were deemed "supernatural" because the people at the time could not explain them any other way. Sam is doing the exact same thing.
I don't know if anyone else had a vision of a bride with that white chair around her head? It just evoked that vision when video started, just curious lol
Robert was to weak minded to hear Matt point out how ridiculous his epistemology is. He was like a 5 year old who puts their fingers in their ears when they don't hear something they disagree with.
While the child analogy fits, Christianity glorifies having "faith like a child" Even when I was a believer i felt that was an odd thing to say. More so now.
domestic animals have entered into a symbiotic relationship with humans. Most animals are not domesticated. But for those that are, they get a lot out of the relationship - food, protection, housing etc. It's not slavery.
I’m happy to have genuine conversations with anybody questioning religion. Not interested in trolls or those who want to push the validity of religion. Why am I qualified to speak? Because there is a difference between those who have never been indoctrinated and those who were. Andrew says he doesn’t believe, but is still hanging on to the hell idea. There is a huge difference in one’s ability to analyse the story from a never having believed point of view.
Matt nailed it, in my case at least. As a child, I was taught to be a born again Christian. Attending Sunday school, I was told to read the Bible. I did so. I came back to Sunday school with a multitude of questions. Each week, I challenged what they teaching. I was told not to come back until I listened to their lies. My path for truth began. Do not blindly follow someone simply because they are an authority. You want to know The Bible, read it yourself and stop listening to what others claim it to say.
It's that "if" there's a god, the god could only convey what's good for me "after" I'm dead. If I can only discover what god says after I'm dead, then what a waste of this life, even if god exists there. I have "flatlined" more than 6 times in my life. I can understand that those who have done the same have interpreted their experiences in the ways that they do, but honestly I see no evidence of a god there. I see massive evidence of misinterpreting an experience of near death. There's even a "collective" memory of those who experience near death repeated amounts of times. It saddens me to watch people waste their lives over this concept It breaks my heart. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
"Better"? The entire history of man is scarcely noticeable compared to the reign of the dinosaurs. Which itself is a blink in the non-eyes of the era of single celled organisms.
I don't think that's completely true. We'll be timestamped in the crust with the artificial plastics, and some satellite debris in space should be safe from erosion
I love how level headed and rational Arden is. She is great at summing up the situation succinctly. Matt, of course, great as always. He seemed super chill in this one, mind you I'm only up to the second caller.
hell is just a threat, anyone who feels the need to threaten you doesn't deserve your attention. if god can't be reasoned with, if you can't say to god "hang on a moment, let's talk about this" he is a threat to humanity.
Rivalod is comfortable having a God determine his life's purpose but not a human doing it, despite having a human tell him what the God he can't demonstrate wants for his life.
I know that many cats are like this, but my Matilda is not. She tries, but because she was raised by my dog, she has more respect.😆 we have more of a partnership, actually.
Your Matilda reminds me of my Weeblz 😅 I never cared for cats until Weeblz entered my life. He only lived 2.5 yrs, but it was literally two and a half years of Weeblz making me laugh until I cried every day of the week. He was the only cat I've ever known to respect.
My wife is still struggling with notions of hell. Her Baptist father did that to her over many years. She is showing signs of independent thought and disconnecting herself from the indoctrination. But it doesn't fully go away. These people have done major damage and they will never realise just how much damage they did.
Andrew-people aren’t indoctrinated overnight & they’re not “unindoctrinated” overnight either. Give yourself time to get deprogrammed, you’ll get there.
Andrew’s call is another way of arguing Pascal’s wager. If there is no good reason to believe in God why then should we believe all the alleged trappings of that God, such as angels, Hell etc.
Andrew... if when you grew up and learned that Santa doesn’t exist would it be reasonable to believe that if you hung a sock on your fireplace mantel you’d find coal in it?
Andrew's call was not arguing pascals wager. Andrew's call was someone who's coming to grips with escaping indoctrination and honestly trying to cope with residual fear. Andrew admitted that he is just scared. He called for help.
@@jamessmith1845 you really didn’t pick up on it. If a former Christian reaches a point where they question God’s existence how could they still believe in Hell? It’s totally irrational. God’s existence is the essential foundation for every single doctrine taught in Christianity. How could one claim they have given up their belief in God yet be concerned about going to Hell? If this is really the case then the individual hasn’t made up their mind regarding God. To play it safe maybe it’s better to hedge you bet. For one who truly has given up God means they’ve had to cross the Hell hurdle too. Because Hell is the one and only reason why one should believe in God. The deck is stacked.
14:36 I actually was repeatedly kicked out of Sunday school because I didn't just ask questions but would explain to them how it made absolutely no sense.
If God mainly cares about humans, then why did he even bother making anything other than food/labor animals and the means to support them? Why would he put fish on the bottom of the ocean, or have predators to compete with or even attack humans?
@@truthmatters2782 So the omnipotent god created a woman, who subsequently undermines his entire creation? This god starting to sound like a Mr. Bean sketch.
@@truthmatters2782 Sure, that goes some way to explain the predators, but even YECs that claim the Fall changed animals (which is already an interpretive leap) don't argue that entirely new animals suddenly popped up just to take up space.
I know one is not supposed to comment on superficialities (e.g., appearance), but I can't stop seeing Matt's guest (Arden of Eden) as appearing in a wedding veil! Am I the ONLY weirdo who can't unsee that? (P.S. Longtime atheist, skeptic, humanist, feminist, so I'm talking strictly about a visual phenomenon. No implications should be drawn beyond that, please.)
Regarding commenting on personal appearance: The distinction I usually make is 'decision'. While I won't comment on someone's subjective quality of physical attractiveness, or their body (outside of a health/exercise context), I am happy to comment on aspects of appearance which are a result of decisions made, eg hair style/colour, clothes, tattoos, jewellery, make-up etc... :)
Sam, this week, I watched two 90 minute interviews with the renowned physicist Roger Penrose. While being one of the smartest people on the planet, he said repeatedly said, “I don’t know”.
For a second I thought Arden of Eden had a veil on her head. And I was like "wow, arent we being fancy today". But it just the white fabric of her chair 😝 😆
I'm glad you said that Matt about how maybe if a god he could reward you for not being a follower. I've been saying that for awhile now and I'm glad someone posed that as a possibility.
My mum told me a little while ago that i was kicked out from Sunday school for asking questions and saying that the bible sounds silly. I honestly do not remember it, so i cant of been very old. Even though i do not recall it i am still proud that i did that.
Closeted Atheist in Christian nation. I Love and watch the show from Zambia. I have a resolution to save money for an international call and call in. You guys are reaching more than you know
That’s cool to hear! Be safe dude 💥👊🏽
Stay safe, be strong, keep growing
That's sad if you have to save up money just to try and call them. Maybe you could join the Discord and talk to some people for free there. Not sure if the hosts are ever on there but you could always send an email as well.
Isn't there a way to connect through the internet?
@Atheist hate Free speech is it hard to not use one's brain this much?
I just wanted to say I went to my dads funeral today and right on cue the pastor said "Jim had his reservation set for heaven, do YOU have your reservation set? I am sure hed love to see you there, we have pamphelts in the lobby with a way you can contact our church and talk to a pastor"
I almost walked the fuck out...
🤦♂️ yikes
Condolences, and my sympathy for having to deal with insensitively obtuse clergy folk.
@Brad Chervel
Sounds terrible.
I would've walked out, and maybe waited for family and friends, or just hooked up with them at the reception. I also would've scolded the minister for proselytizing at my father's funeral service.
@@johnbell6114 Me and my gf are the only nonbelivers in a mass of hardcore believers. It was not a fun or welcome experience. Especially since my dad remarried into this weird ultra religious bunch. Just a total disaster of clueless people.
“Children only believe what they’re told”
I don’t think Andrew is a parent.
I'm not a parent and even I picked up on that lol.
@@mischarowe I was making a bit of a joke. The vast majority of parents have told a child something like “stop running, you’ll fall over”, and how many children have carried on running until WHAM!
But seriously everyone should see the flaw in that comment, because we were all children once. It would be extremely concerning if there was a child who believed everything they were told. It would set them up to be dangerously gullible, and get taken advantage of.
I tended to be that way as a kid. But I knew TONS of kids, especially at church, that didn't buy it for a second. Come on Andrew. Is he blind or just dishonest?
@@ifoxfirei I just think it's a deep fear for him due to being conditioned, he seems like he's open but a bit confused.
never been a child either by his logic.
Leo said "I was brought up a christian"
Leo also said "I have never read the bible"
Which makes Leo typical of all christians.
I was exactly that type of christian myself 😂 And one day I asked myself: Why are you christian?
@@KevinChantal I had a similar moment. One day I lost my wallet or keys so I prayed to God to help me find them. Immediately after I prayed I said "Why does it feel like I'm just talking to myself?....Because I probably am." That was a big "oh shit" moment for me. I was still religious/spiritual for a few more years after that but it was a pretty big seed of doubt for me.
I actually tried to read it, but i was so god damn boring...
@@DrKlausTrophobie Read one of those audio books of it. That's what I did. It was still a pain in the ass to get through though especially in books like Numbers.
@@OfficialSeth Now as an Atheist my drive to actually read it is even lower. So, no thanks.
The Crump Comic Version has to be enough. 😁
Hank-TX: This guy has never met my cat. He definitely does not do my bidding. It's the exact opposite.
My fish never made me dinner before
I spend more time shopping for my dog than for myself. And dog food? It ain't cheap. Toys? Vet? Same. My dog definitely is not a slave LOL And that just material part. Time spent petting her, playing with her, cleaning after her? If anything, I'm here to serve *her* needs. But that's OK - her joy when I'm coming home from work, her trust and love is more than enough to repay any debt.
We are slaves to our cats.
My dog looks at me with his puppy dog eyes and I just do whatever he wants.
Arden is so hott
Andrew, I was such a child! Raised in a Christian household, going to church, sunday school, a Christian primary and secondary school. And yet, I never believed, and from the age of 10 was aware that I was a non believer. I started to refuse to sing a long in church and annoyed most ministers during bible study with questions and discussions.
My mother came from a very religious family, and yet none of her 8 brothers or sisters became religious.
I stopped believing when I was 12 from reading the Bible. I didn't know anyone who didn't believe so it took a lot of courage for me to go my own path in the closet.
The God of the gaps, is like the roaches scurrying to the next hidden corner, when the kitchen lights of knowledge is turned on.
God of the Gaps: "I don't know, therefore God"
Atheism of the Gaps: "I don't know, therefore No God"
Agnostics: "I just don't know."
@@melchior2678
theists: “I don’t know, therefore god.”
Atheists: “All god claims either directly contradict all observable reality, or describe something there is zero evidence for in the known universe. Therefore I see no reason to think a god or gods exist until evidence indicates this.”
Agnostics: “Meh. Maybe something completely without evidence or logically contradictory exists. Dunno.”
@@MrShigura the way you said it doesn't exactly roll off the tounge.
Mine is better, more succinct, more quoteable, more memeworthy, more accurate.
@@melchior2678 Nope, just more moronic and simple minded.
@@melchior2678 less accurate about atheism.
I'm glad they gave Andrew enough time to get to that "I'm just scared" moment. That pause after "what are you scared of?"... I really felt that. Much love to Andrew, I hope you make it man. ❤
@Andrew Boettinger there's more easy access to a really good community of atheists than ever before who are ready to support you and remind you that you are not alone in this.
@Andrew Boettinger I feel ya bro. We're all here for you.
@Andrew Boettinger "Religions poisons everything." Truly,it does.
@Andrew Boettinger Be kind to yourself and give it time! Great call in. Best wishes!
Shedding the fear of hell (beaten into me) took several decades. Remember, Andrew, feelings are in your mind, and not necessarily caused by real things.
I like how a lot of theist's usually say "I'v done a LOT of research", and then they show they haven't.
They actually may have. A lot of the terms that religious apologists use are geared towards keeping their "flock" on religious sites when they try to research. Leads to their research never getting beyond AiG or other "sources".
They're full of shit because if they had honestly researched, they wouldn't be religious.
Most don’t know HOW to do proper research. Even for those that do, religious topics tend to be a massive blind spot for most believers. Even those who are more skeptical in regards to most other ideas they are confronted with daily overlook the evidence against their own religion, though those people are often steeped in indoctrination.
Research for them means perusing websites they agree with.
I have been becoming more of an atheist as time progressed over the past few years (basically meaning I've become more hardened in my convictions), but I can't say that it's really the result of research, because it's not really something that you can research. It's more like I've been listening a lot to atheists and agree with so much of their philosophies.
Old video but this first caller is so much of me, I held on to catholicism for so long due to an intense fear. I lost sleep crying because I thought I was "a bad kid" all I wanted to do was the right thing but was constantly terrified. The only peace I had was gained when my stepfather arrived and switched us to an assemblies of God church. I realized the fear was absured and it was demonstrated to me clearly that it was all a load.
My heart goes out to fearful theists. No one should live with this.
Assemblies of God are truly evil
Andrew: “ Why doesn’t everyone else share my neuroses?”
Be kind. Andrew is clearly struggling with fear and it's admirable that Andrew reached out for help.
A much more substantive talk than usual. Those of us raised on fear can find it almost impossible to stop fearing this god's wrath. I feel for the caller.
@@jamessmith1845 it’s nice of you to say that, but I’m not his counselor. The lack of self reflection was annoying. It wasn’t that he was scared it’s that he thought it was weird not to be afraid of his imagination.
One of my best friends is a trans woman (but uses they/them currently). We met in college when they were living as a man. The first time they EVER did anything fem it was them painting their nails when they came over to hang out one day. I saw it when they walked in and didn't even think before saying "dude, your nails looks awesome". A couple weeks later they came over in a dress, I couldn't imagine ending a decades long friendship over something so silly and arbitrary as gender, they're still one of my best friends, and even came to my wedding in a beautiful dress! Those of you who hate my friend and people like them, can I ask why? How does my friend wearing a dress vs pants change them for the worse?
The irony is that the people it bothers are always crying about their rights, yet somehow they can't get over the fact that a trans person can have rights. These same nutbags that want freedom of religion are against abortion because it goes against THEIR religion. So much hypocrisy.
@@RaveyDavey No one is saying trans women and cis women are the same. They're just saying that trans women are women too.
@@RaveyDavey It depends on how you look at it. The sex they got assigned at birth was male and nothing will ever change that. Then the question is "will they always be male". Well, it depends on what you mean at that point. Their sex won't change, because we're not able to change someone's sex at this point in time. That's not to say a trans woman is the same as a cis man. A trans woman can take hormones and take surgeries, among other things, to make themselves more feminine. If you look at the brains of trans woman, they'll look more like cis women brains than cis men brains. So to say that trans women are men is ignoring scientific evidence, unless maybe if you're purely talking about sex and not gender.
Just a reminder: science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
Striking point..... Right on target!!!
fruit flies like a banana!
... sorry wrong joke.
religion is the reason people fly into building , the actual flying into buildings (working planes) is still science.
lul imagine still believing you can fly in space in ''insert current year''
@@deenman23 so, you are all kinds of ignorant.
Andrew I was 8 and a Priest came into my religion class and started talking about original sin. I looked around at the other kids to see if they were actually buying into the nonsense. It was clear that inheriting someone else’s sin was a manipulative move to control people. I never believed in any religion ever. Not for a second! Sorry Andrew you have to think for yourself.
I believed when I was very young but around 10-12 I started to doubt. I figured it out despite being surrounded by indoctrination. I was raised orthodox and as a child decided to not believe what I was being taught… because like you said, it was obviously false
My questioning began with the priest coming into class and try to explain transubstantiation.
@@johnaz7778 oof yeah that’s a weird pill to swallow
@@friendo6257 i was lucky, when i was a child, not one of the people around me claiming to be christian acted christian, now i have a saying, the ony way to be a good christian is to be atheist.
@@johnaz7778
Ah, ah.... Good one!!!!!!
Great job with Andrew guys. That's what this show is for. You did a great job of listening and meeting him where he was....
Hearing Andrew letting go of arguments and justification for a god's existence and finally admitting that he's just scared is as relieving as it is heartbreaking.
To be fair that is where he started. We need to have empathy. Christians have been brainwashed from birth by their families, their peers,their culture, their schools, their politicians, in America even by their money.. it must take a lot of strength to break free. This guy has nearly done so and need advice about how to get rid of his vestigial fear. Instead of helping Matt goes into his usual blend of logic chopping, interruption, insult and refusal to listen.
@God's Servant possibly true. But religion is the most common form of brain washing. I suspect that more than half the world’s population have been duped into the idea that there is a magic person in the sky. When we grow up we stop believing in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. I sometimes find
Myself doubtful whether people REALLY believe the religious stuff or if they are just clinging on to a belief in the same way that a child tries to cling on to the possibility of Santa for some time after they are really sure he is fiction.
@God's Servant I don’t think your chicken sandwich idea holds up. For a start it might actually be unite a good chicken sandwich. Secondly we probably wouldn’t be convinced on faith. We would want evidence. Thirdly that evidence could easily be obtained. Fourthly, and this goes towards answering your point about whether religion is the most common form of brain washing, fewer people over history have been exposed to the idea of the chicken sandwich.
While I accept that there is an element of conditioning in some advertising I think it falls short of brain washing.
However, most of humanity grows up in cultures which accept, promote or insist on religious doctrines. In the USA no presidential candidate would dare to admit he was atheist. The money bears the words “in god we trust”. In the Uk there mus be a daily act of worship in schools
In many Arabic countries the legal system is based on religion.
All over the world children are taught the stories of their country’s religion almost from birth.. in many countries dire punishments are promised, in this world and the next, for disobedience or disbelief.
At least the chicken sandwich probably exists
@God's Servant Jesus is part of the holy trinity. Along with god and the Holy Ghost he is integrally part of god. Tat is what I understand of the theory of it. He is god.
As such he must take some responsibility for expecting Adam and Eve to behave themselves BEFORE they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, for genocide in the flood and in Sodom and Gomorrah, for his acceptance of slavery, for the unequal miseries that his imperfect world inflicts on his imperfect human creation, for brain cancer and earthquakes, for his insistence that we worship him , for his willingness to condemn us to everlasting torture if we don’t. Pretty monstrous I would say.
@Andrew Boettinger I'm in the same boat. I could relate so much to your call because I keep going through all those mental hoops the same way you did, and end up just admitting that I have no reason to believe but Im scared of the "what if" scenario, and I don't know if that will ever go away. Stay strong brother, let's hope we get through this.
Sam, when people didn't know what caused lightning, they came up with gods doing it. That's supernatural. Were they correct? When they thought epilepsy was caused by demons, were they correct?
Devils Advocate:
Well no but you can’t prove it’s not supernatural! I mean no one REALLY knows where lightning or epilepsy come from. I mean I don’t think those things could possibly be natural!
You could be believing a lie! Do you just believe it because other people say so? Can you think for yourself? You don’t really know if scientists are telling you the truth! Thinking lightning is natural is crazier than thinking lightning is supernatural!
Devils advocate is supposed to present a stalwart version of the opposing argument, not throw out random relativistic claims about knowledge. We do know where lightning and epilepsy come from, but assuming we didn’t, being a kind of atheist in regard to people pretending to know how it was created without any evidence still would be the most intellectually honest position.
Small imps or demons cause the ionic buildup by rubbing their wings together
@@mellowtron214 I would just reverse it and say how absolutely certain are you that your God did the lightning and not some other god?
@@mikeharris5681 Ah, I always thought it was rubbing their butt cheeks together.
Matt was on fire this episode , on point every time, good examples, showed great patience, wow.
"Kids only believe what they're told"
Can't say I ever believed what my parents told me about christianity. And at the ripe old age of 12 I turned to my mom one fine sunday morning and told her I didn't want to go to church anymore.
I stopped believing at age 12 sixty years ago due to reading the Bible.
Andrew PA: I was kicked out of Sunday school for asking uncomfortable questions ... according to my mother, I did not believe in god from I was about 3 years old. She says I never believed, but I expressed that I did not believe from the moment I had concepts to express it, despite growing up in a Christian family.
Arden is really awesome. I hope she comes on again. She works really well with Matt. This episode was Zen Matt and I think the team of him and Arden might've helped that happen. This was a pretty chill video to watch. Thanks for the hour and a half distraction from life. :)
Andrew's Point boils down to Pascal's wager.
He’s also struggling to understand anything the hosts are saying.
I think he just struggles to understand how the hosts don’t fear hell anymore.
@@FullmoonPhantom-dn2sr it's hard to know what his problem is other than total mental confusion.
Imo, It's the trauma that indoctrination has done to his psyche. You can hear it in his voice that he's terrified of the thought of hell.
My impression is that what he was getting at is when one has spent your life believing something adamantly, how is it not painful or difficult to walk away and not be somewhat still gripped or impacted by those beliefs.
My answer to him would have been, I have heard very few atheists who have ever said that it wasn't difficult.
Matt is the exception. When he talks about leaving the faith, it sounds as if it was a light switch for him. One moment he believed adamantly and the next moment he didn't, and it was all fine. I struggle to believe him when he says this; I wonder if it's what he tells himself.
After all, beliefs are something that physically alters our brains and our body chemistry. They impact the essence of who we are. Changing them is almost universally a difficult process.
This is one of the things that confuses me about Matt because he will insist it was a simple thing for him only saying it's difficult after his co-hosts mention that it is difficult. It sort of reminds me of watching people who have narcissism or antisocial personalities trying to relate when people have emotional ties to other people. It's not something they feel or have ever felt so they can't relate.
Is it just my imagination or is Matt nicer and more patient when Arden is the co-host???
Trying to impress the porn actress? Who woulda thunk?
@@shaun374 Arden is his girlfriend. He's probably happier when she is on the show.
@@cullenarthur8879
How does everyone know this? Has he talked about this? Or is this something only her OF subscribers know about?
@@shaun374 He has mentioned it yes. I think its pretty odd but more power to them
@@WolfgangBrozart what’s odd about Matt and Arden dating?
I love that Robert proved at the end of the call that this was not about intellect for him despite bringing that type of argument. When his position was exposed as unsupported by sound logic he closed his ears and ignored good epistemology in order to keep his belief. That's an emotional reaction. Not an intelligent one
Obvious he was on a script. And then when asked to give his OWN thoughts off script, he stumbled out of the conversation like a fall-down drunk trying to leave a bar. And the best thought he had was " you're not speaking the language of religion" . No shit. Matt was speaking the language of reality. A language Robert is obviously not fluent in.
He’s in good company. William Lane Craig even admits his belief is warranted without reference to evidence or argument. (This also makes his professional career merely self-justification, and otherwise a complete waste of time.)
@@ooloncoluphid1942 I never understood why people think that guy is smart. Not a single one of his arguments is something I would expect from anyone over 15 years old. His debate with Dr. Carroll was particular useful in reinforcing this thought.
I think Robert’s thinking though the call was…
Give an irrelevant backstory.
Give a quote.
Make an assertion.
Give a quote.
Give a quote.
Make an assertion.
Mumble the “agree to disagree” cop-out.
Realise you’re wrong but sign off like a clown.
@@49perfectss It’s because he is a Doctor of Philosophistry. He has cured philosophy of the burden of relevance.
Arden is a great addition to the show...... I sincerely hope we get to hear her views and opinions in the future..... thanks Arden!
@@megalol3625
??????????????????????????//////!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matt in ZEN mode is an amazing communicator of sound epistemology 💪💪💪
Yes!!!
But around minute 18 I fear he starts to lose . . . patience? compassion? and I feel for the young man who called. Although a few minutes later Matt seems to recover the Zen.
Now you've made Andrew afraid of the monster under the bed
I actually thought that too lol 😈
Listen. If that guy is now going to be afraid of the boogie monster, he’s likely to be afraid of anything anyone would propose to him anyway.
Matt’s logic was totally sound. His brain wasn’t picking it up though.
@Andrew Boettinger you know you have worms living on your eyelashes, no?
@@HarryNicNicholas The human body contains about 30-trillion cells, it also contains around 35-trillion bacterial cells....you're more "not human" than human ;)
Hell used to bother me after I realized the big lie. They drill that in deep, the bastards. Then one day I realized I don't fear Thor's hell. Yahweh's hell never bothered me for a second after that. Hells die with their god.
To Hell with them!
as soon as i no longer believed in the god i no longer believed in his hell.
no god, no hell.
I don't really understand how one could no longer believe in the god that created said hell but still believe in the creation.
Oh so what evidence do you have God does not exist?
@UCZmM1lqK1ZvtIgQrYSoTtOw Evolution is a fact numbskull. That's why it hasn't been overturned in over 150 years and even Christian biologists support it. Look up Dr Francis Collins who was the head of The Human Genome Project and is a Bible-believing Christian.
You must be an American due to your woeful education.
@@walnutoil100 Which god ?
Gdmit Rivalod! You had 1 job, to bring the Netherlands on the worldmap. And now the whole world is thinking we are still walking on wooden shoe’s!
Speaking as someone who's not from Netherlands, I never came to the wooden shoes presumption from listening to Rivalod.
Speaking as someone who used to live just outside of rotterdam, plenty of you do wear those shoes (klompen/clogs)!!
Another week, another total lack of evidence or valid sound arguments for god. Guess he’s not sending his best? 🤔
@@walnutoil100 You must have been born without any sense of shame. Your trolling has been completely debunked to the point you’ve been reduced to having a meltdown tantrum so many times that we’ve all lost count. The fact that you’re willing to keep showing your face here is totally embarrassing.
@@MrShigura projection LOL
@@walnutoil100 Thanks for proving my point.
@@walnutoil100 No evidence that Xenu doesn’t exist, either. Going to become a Scientologist now?
@@blackhat4206 Small correction, xenu is actually the $cientology version of satan rather than god. Your point stands though.
The "God would know exactly how to convince me" is a great argument! Says it all, as far as I'm concerned. What kind of jokester god is there?
Oh, there are a lot of jokester gods to choose from... Anansi, Eris, Kokopelli, Loki, Coyote,......
@@cnault3244 Woooo \o/ Coyote!
@Steve Morris, I love that argument too. I also laugh every single time Matt says "god is playing the world's longest game of hide and seek".
Jesus could magic up wine, and a bunch of bread and fish, in a time when we have very detailed histories of Alexander and Julius Caesar, the "All-Knowing" god didn't think to make Jesus do this in Rome with about a million people watching at the Circus Maximus?
its only a good argument for rational people,christians will just say ''your just ignoring him''
Andrew: When a child refuses to grow up he turns into a fool.
Andrew isn’t a fool, he was indoctrinated. I hope he gets the help he seems to need.
er, refusing to grow up is a good thing, i didn't get where i am today by being adult.
@@HarryNicNicholas : But, where are you today?
To Hank: watch the documentary 'Botany of desire' it talks about how plants have used humans (manipulated them with sweet scents, vibrant colors, fruits, etc.) To get across the world. Kinda like how apple trees have managed to get nearly everywhere on the planet.. where people are at least.
You should look into fungi! They may just be the true rulers of the world, they even control the plants! I myself may be wrong, but first I need to learn more about viruses. They are some insidious little bastards!
Or maybe life finds a niche where it can absorb free energy.
@@Bob-of-Zoid The latest National Geographic magazine has an article about Viruses and how they fit into all life. You might be interested in reading it.
@@Bob-of-Zoid Are you also reading Merlin Sheldrake right now? 😃 "Entangled Life"
If I may observe gently, your language about plants using people or trying to spread their range is misguided assignment of agency. Evolution has no goals or plan or desire, other than replication.
Props to Hank. He actually said “ hmm I never thought of that. “. Christian or atheist this is a skill most people should be better at.
Arden has such a massively attractive mind and character. Socks knocked off... totally!
She’s dishonest af
Claims to know the unknown
He is totally attractive and virile.
@@josephpaul4548 do better Joseph.
@@livi6440Which claims were that? I mean, I'm pretty sure that it's happened because nobody is ever right about absolutely everything all of the time. I'm still curious about the claims she's made.
@@septixskeptix1107 Arden claims “puberty blockers are harmless” that’s unknown at best and have an actual list of harms at worst.
Arden has a great way with words. I'm glad she is on the show.
She says like too much
@@dmitrirozhenko7841 that's a 'thinking word'. It means she's taking the time to choose her next words carefully, and I, for one, will do my best to NEVER fault someone for taking extra time to be sure they are communicating as best they can.
I just think she's beautiful, but you're right too.
I always get ads from grifting religious outfits on this channel. Wtf RUclips.
Same here
Thank "god" for RUclips revanced... No commercials lol
lol that chair is distracting, it looks like Arden is wearing a wedding veil
I thought exactly the same! 🤣
I thought that too!
Same.
I used to think Matt’s chair was like a Darth Vader helmet. I’ll have to imagine Arden’s chair is a stormtrooper.
I swear🤣🤣🤣
I didn’t but now I can’t unsee it lol
Arden looks like she is wearing a veil.
Zactly what I thought. Is she going to announce a marriage? I thought.
Very distracting.
She’s super cute
@@aliveby7140 take your bs some other place
@@aliveby7140 omg please shut up for everyone’s sanity
@@aliveby7140 I identify you as a delusional theist.
Love Arden, hope she cohosts more in future, I like Trans-Atlantic but it is nice to see her views on more topics.
agreed! its always cute seeing arden and his gay lover on at the same time
Really? I don't think she brought much to the debate at all... It's frustrating when the cohosts do nothing but nod and agree with Matt
@@deenman23 I'm gay, so i'm attracted to men. Arden is a trans woman. Men who are attracted to trans women are straight or bi. There is a reason that on most porn sights trans women porn is a sub genre of straight porn, not gay porn. Keep your ignorant hateful bullshit to yourself.
@@cullenarthur8879 huh?what the heck are you talking about hateful?i was complimenting them...do you see ''gay'' and think insult?ok bigot
@@deenman23 bullshit. You were intentionally misgendering Arden and ignorantly stating that men who date trans women are gay. Like I said, I am gay. Gay men like other MEN, not trans women. I sincerely doubt you were complimenting them and I'm pretty sure you know that
Andrew if you are reading this ……I was raised in a southern baptist church but by age 10 or even younger, I struggled to believe their teachings. Not sure I ever believed it. The fear of hell part was the real trick. Took time to not be terrified of such.
I think rivalod needs to be on some sort of watch list.
I don’t believe him, full stop. He lives in a country that is pretty much 50% atheist, but gives the impression he’s never had this conversation…. I’m not buying it.
Arden: "Yikes"
@@zendavesta1027 😂
Andrew, I went to church every Sunday when I was a kid and thought all of the Bible stories they were teaching us were bullshit but I was too shy and introverted to question any of it. All these stories sounded stupid and implausible.
Arden needs to come on more. She's awesome
Andrew is not listening he is looking at his computer or the narrative in his head
I'm glad I came across this video. I'm an atheist - and very embarassed to say that I have a fear of hell. I know, it's totally irrational, not reasonable and not logical. Yet, I can't quite shake my fear of going to hell. The funny things is, I was raised as a very mainline liberal Protestant, and my parents didn't drill this fear into me (though my mother never quite overcame her southern Babtist roots and did definitely beleive in hell). So, to the caller Andrew: you're not alone, my friend.
Arden is so beautiful!
Arden is on only fans if you like so much.
Seems to me most religious people (like Andrew), deep down, are aware their beliefs are totally irrational, and yet they still cling to them because it gives them some sense of comfort, eases their fear of mortality, or gives them a sense of superiority.
While I think that’s possible, I don’t think it’s a particularly useful argument. Theists often use the exact same statement toward atheists. IE: “Deep down you know god exists but just deny it.” Claiming to know what’s in someone’s mind better than they do is kind of a dead end.
@@MrShigura Can't disagree, I could not say it's true of all people, but I do think most (or a fair number? I don't know) religious people realize that their belief is based solely on faith and hence is irrational.
@@MrShigura
_> Theists often use the exact same statement toward atheists_
They use lots of statements without any good reason, pretty much like parrots.
That doesn't make the statement itself invalid when used properly, i.e. to describe theists accurately.
Yet, it is totally rational to believe you are the opposite gender. Go Alana McLaughlin! You choked out that biological woman in MMA and we are all so very proud of you! I could not help but notice McLaughlin's "End Trans Genocide" t-shirt even though most trans people are killed by their lovers and not conservative hetero people. Now we just need to end oppressive domestic abuse laws for true equality.
@@Conserpov Except the reason it’s invalid is it relies on the idea that you know what is in someone’s mind better than they do. If that’s an unsupportable position to argue from, that applies regardless of which side is using it.
I really like how hard Matt went in on Andrew, but pulled back the reigns. I thought we were destined for hanging up, but instead it sounded like great breakthrough. Arden is a good balance for Matt!
Thanks for your comment. I'm glad I saw it. It made me go back and listen to the rest of the call after getting frustrated with Matt's harshness. Arden's compassion was nice and helpful, I think.
@@twelvesmylimit I feel you - it's always hard to listen when Matt has started to get frustrated/lose patience when it's so clear (to me at least) that there's just a communication issue or something similar going on, but the other person does still appear to be an honest interlocutor. I don't blame Matt, after so many years of dodgy theists, but sometimes he definitely jumps the gun... :'S
13 years later and I am still scared of airplanes noise when it's too early in the morning, because my sunday school teacher used to say that we would hear many airplanes when the second coming would happen.
Lol I wonder where in the bible it says that
@@whispersmiththey only believe bits of the bible and even then only when it suits them
Hank has clearly never owned a cat. We supposedly own them but they're the ones that treat us like slaves.
The all-too true saying runs true: "Dogs have owners, Cats have staff."
@@RickReasonnz But...they only have the power that we allow them.
They don’t treat us like slaves, they are very loving animals if you treat them the way they should be treated. Feed them well, give them a lot of attention and they are great animals.
Andrew's "yes buts" really became aggravating following the explanations he was given.
I wasn’t listening but I have something to say
@@friendo6257 Not sure if that's the case, the more I listen different calls, the more I start to understand, that it is not so easy topic as some of us think it is. Even while listening, it's not always easy to put the puzzle-pieces together, if you catch my drift. Some people need more time to analyze and think things through. Andrew just seemed to have shit-ton of questions and no-one to answer them. And while he tries to put the corner-pieces together Matt throws more pieces to him, so he can get his puzzle together, but it's hard to complete this sort of puzzle with limited time. :)
Particularly loved the show thanks Arden and Matt, gave me a lot to think about was waiting for this post to follow it again .
Fear of hell was a hard thing to leave behind, even though I'm convinced I was brain washed. I'm so glad it doesn't trouble me anymore. Can I get a high five> lol
Hank: Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.”
So god not only condones slavery of people, but gives us the right to do what we want with the other animals of this world.
You can’t have it both ways Hank . . .!
Bacteria use us maybe they are our gods?
@@chrisharris1522
DNA controls, All Living Things ~~
@@ookeekthelibrarian
You got that right, now tell us, how do you think DNA came into existence here on Earth?...... genius
@@ookeekthelibrarian abiogenesis genius, try reading a book with facts.
When someone talks about hell, ask them what the GPS coordinates are for hell so you can investigate yourself, otherwise it's located in magicland.
At least give us a website to go to, a phone number maybe?
Or, you could tell them you have no interest in mythology
God can do anything including putting Hell in a magical dimension outside of normal space and time, is what they would say, if they bothered to even think about it.
This was one of the funniest episodes ever. The vagina montage followed by the Simon Cowell, Matt Dillahunty comparison had me literally 😂
Great episode…. One of the best! I love Rivalod… I think he’s an honest interlocutor. He’s coming from a place of darkness and he’s slowly realizing. I love to hear that. Whatever it takes for him to come out of the darkness, I support him and will be patient. I think one day he’ll recognize that you don’t need to believe in anything without evidence.
Is there a first action from god?
Yes = So before his first action he/she/it was doing nothing?
No = So that means there are infinite actions until he created the universe so he will never reach the action of creating the universe
I'm sorry, I don't usually comment on the appearance of others but I could look into Arden's eyes all day
Do you realise she wasnt born as a girl and is pre op trans?
@@jasont6287 How does that change the fact that he likes Arden's eyes?
@@jasont6287I think most commenters know that by now
*RELIGION;* _Everyone speaking for God,_
_except for God himself_
I watched this in front of my friend. It went great, he nodded in all the right places.
Andrew poorly communicated he's afraid of hell and doesn't understand how to let go of that fear cause hell still feels real.
HOW DOES HELL STILL FEELS REAL?
Sam's argument about supernatural simply repeats all of human history. Things like lightning, thunder, earthquakes and volcanoes were deemed "supernatural" because the people at the time could not explain them any other way. Sam is doing the exact same thing.
arden is a cutie!
Ya, typical nerd boy look 🤓
I don't know if anyone else had a vision of a bride with that white chair around her head? It just evoked that vision when video started, just curious lol
Spot on
Robert was to weak minded to hear Matt point out how ridiculous his epistemology is. He was like a 5 year old who puts their fingers in their ears when they don't hear something they disagree with.
While the child analogy fits, Christianity glorifies having "faith like a child"
Even when I was a believer i felt that was an odd thing to say. More so now.
🤣
@@uninspired3583 don’t the Pope like touching kids
domestic animals have entered into a symbiotic relationship with humans. Most animals are not domesticated. But for those that are, they get a lot out of the relationship - food, protection, housing etc. It's not slavery.
I’m happy to have genuine conversations with anybody questioning religion. Not interested in trolls or those who want to push the validity of religion. Why am I qualified to speak? Because there is a difference between those who have never been indoctrinated and those who were. Andrew says he doesn’t believe, but is still hanging on to the hell idea. There is a huge difference in one’s ability to analyse the story from a never having believed point of view.
A word for the indoctrinated, “One cannot see the face of a mountain from inside its caves.” Chinese saying, as best as I remember.
Matt nailed it, in my case at least. As a child, I was taught to be a born again Christian. Attending Sunday school, I was told to read the Bible. I did so. I came back to Sunday school with a multitude of questions. Each week, I challenged what they teaching. I was told not to come back until I listened to their lies. My path for truth began. Do not blindly follow someone simply because they are an authority. You want to know The Bible, read it yourself and stop listening to what others claim it to say.
Matt left that first guy speechless.
It's that "if" there's a god, the god could only convey what's good for me "after" I'm dead. If I can only discover what god says after I'm dead, then what a waste of this life, even if god exists there. I have "flatlined" more than 6 times in my life. I can understand that those who have done the same have interpreted their experiences in the ways that they do, but honestly I see no evidence of a god there. I see massive evidence of misinterpreting an experience of near death. There's even a "collective" memory of those who experience near death repeated amounts of times. It saddens me to watch people waste their lives over this concept It breaks my heart. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
Thank you for such a great show!
"Better"? The entire history of man is scarcely noticeable compared to the reign of the dinosaurs. Which itself is a blink in the non-eyes of the era of single celled organisms.
All true
I don't think that's completely true. We'll be timestamped in the crust with the artificial plastics, and some satellite debris in space should be safe from erosion
Rivalod-(NL): Uses the same reasoning as many insane murderers.
He creeps me out and I hope I never meet him or anyone like him.
I love how level headed and rational Arden is. She is great at summing up the situation succinctly. Matt, of course, great as always. He seemed super chill in this one, mind you I'm only up to the second caller.
Watched from Tuscaloosa Alabama ✊🏾
I’m sorry.
hell is just a threat, anyone who feels the need to threaten you doesn't deserve your attention.
if god can't be reasoned with, if you can't say to god "hang on a moment, let's talk about this" he is a threat to humanity.
So in your reality you are allowed to dictate terms to a God
@@markburch6253 yep. why not?
@@markburch6253 "in my reality" - there's only the one reality.
@@markburch6253 so you let people push you around?
@@markburch6253How is trying to negotiate with god dictating terms? Maybe don’t put words and concepts in other ppl’s mouths
Rivalod is comfortable having a God determine his life's purpose but not a human doing it, despite having a human tell him what the God he can't demonstrate wants for his life.
41:04 He's already going out of his way to tell people he's gonna be an airline pilot
that's the mark of a true pilot, he's gonna fit right in 🤣
I Watched this for 15 minutes before I realised that Arden wasn't wearing a wedding Vail on the back of her head. 😂
LOL, I noticed the same thing. 😀
Same here
Yup 😂
She’s clearing just sitting in a white chair. What are so many of you on about?
Very good episode. Great job by the hosts. Kudos.
"The cat is the head of the household just as Christ is head of the Church."
I know that many cats are like this, but my Matilda is not. She tries, but because she was raised by my dog, she has more respect.😆 we have more of a partnership, actually.
Your Matilda reminds me of my Weeblz 😅
I never cared for cats until Weeblz entered my life. He only lived 2.5 yrs, but it was literally two and a half years of Weeblz making me laugh until I cried every day of the week.
He was the only cat I've ever known to respect.
My wife is still struggling with notions of hell. Her Baptist father did that to her over many years. She is showing signs of independent thought and disconnecting herself from the indoctrination. But it doesn't fully go away. These people have done major damage and they will never realise just how much damage they did.
Rivaldo: I am a religious fanatic and proud of it....wow
"stupidest in the village and proud of it" ...
in a conversation about "opinion" and "I believe"
During Hank's call... just me, or was everyone shouting 'Run Forest, Run' :)
Hank has never owned a cat in his life.
Andrew-people aren’t indoctrinated overnight & they’re not “unindoctrinated” overnight either. Give yourself time to get deprogrammed, you’ll get there.
It's a shame we don't sit more stringent rules for bad guys.
Thanks to the crew. Your work is noted.
Andrew’s call is another way of arguing Pascal’s wager. If there is no good reason to believe in God why then should we believe all the alleged trappings of that God, such as angels, Hell etc.
Andrew... if when you grew up and learned that Santa doesn’t exist would it be reasonable to believe that if you hung a sock on your fireplace mantel you’d find coal in it?
Andrew's call was not arguing pascals wager. Andrew's call was someone who's coming to grips with escaping indoctrination and honestly trying to cope with residual fear. Andrew admitted that he is just scared. He called for help.
@@jamessmith1845 you really didn’t pick up on it. If a former Christian reaches a point where they question God’s existence how could they still believe in Hell? It’s totally irrational. God’s existence is the essential foundation for every single doctrine taught in Christianity. How could one claim they have given up their belief in God yet be concerned about going to Hell? If this is really the case then the individual hasn’t made up their mind regarding God. To play it safe maybe it’s better to hedge you bet. For one who truly has given up God means they’ve had to cross the Hell hurdle too. Because Hell is the one and only reason why one should believe in God. The deck is stacked.
14:36 I actually was repeatedly kicked out of Sunday school because I didn't just ask questions but would explain to them how it made absolutely no sense.
“I’m not kinder than a bonobo”.
That was random! Made me laugh!
I was expecting stronger than a gorilla.
If God mainly cares about humans, then why did he even bother making anything other than food/labor animals and the means to support them? Why would he put fish on the bottom of the ocean, or have predators to compete with or even attack humans?
Well according to the bible everything is honki dori until eve listened to the talking snake.
Then the shit hit the fan and the rest is history 😱
@@truthmatters2782 So everything would have been fine if god wasn't so monumentally stupid as to put the forbidden fruit in the garden.
@@truthmatters2782 So the omnipotent god created a woman, who subsequently undermines his entire creation? This god starting to sound like a Mr. Bean sketch.
That very question is why the invention of the microscope made the church crap itself way back.
@@truthmatters2782 Sure, that goes some way to explain the predators, but even YECs that claim the Fall changed animals (which is already an interpretive leap) don't argue that entirely new animals suddenly popped up just to take up space.
0:00 - "We want the truth"
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
I know one is not supposed to comment on superficialities (e.g., appearance), but I can't stop seeing Matt's guest (Arden of Eden) as appearing in a wedding veil! Am I the ONLY weirdo who can't unsee that? (P.S. Longtime atheist, skeptic, humanist, feminist, so I'm talking strictly about a visual phenomenon. No implications should be drawn beyond that, please.)
I saw that too.
Yeah I kept on thinking it was a wedding veil too. Arden is beautiful and the long hair and the white behind her kept me thinking she was a bride.
Regarding commenting on personal appearance: The distinction I usually make is 'decision'.
While I won't comment on someone's subjective quality of physical attractiveness, or their body (outside of a health/exercise context), I am happy to comment on aspects of appearance which are a result of decisions made, eg hair style/colour, clothes, tattoos, jewellery, make-up etc... :)
Sam, this week, I watched two 90 minute interviews with the renowned physicist Roger Penrose. While being one of the smartest people on the planet, he said repeatedly said, “I don’t know”.
For a second I thought Arden of Eden had a veil on her head. And I was like "wow, arent we being fancy today". But it just the white fabric of her chair 😝 😆
Me, too. I thought it was a wedding veil.
I'm glad you said that Matt about how maybe if a god he could reward you for not being a follower. I've been saying that for awhile now and I'm glad someone posed that as a possibility.
Philosophy can't will a deity into existence
And logic can't will one out of existence
@@markburch6253 If one existed in the first place, that is.
@@J05TI true
@@markburch6253which hosts on these shows are trying to use logic to “will god out of existence”?
My mum told me a little while ago that i was kicked out from Sunday school for asking questions and saying that the bible sounds silly. I honestly do not remember it, so i cant of been very old. Even though i do not recall it i am still proud that i did that.