Some Dive sessions to check out: ruclips.net/video/nuPjU7lRTDo/видео.html ruclips.net/video/UpaHOmDzhuM/видео.html ruclips.net/video/mVnkxQXPQpI/видео.html
what would you say is easiest dive tank to learn/pick up? i been hearing winston and ive started to try him even though im in silver ranks, close to gold, but i restarted my ow grind earlier by picking up doom
This is so incredibly helpful for me. I’m a doom main (gold/plat) and when I have a night of bad games, I can almost always go back and catch myself “cheating” for hours on end.
This concept really clicked when i watched a t500 doomfist play doom attacking on havana. So much of the game he was just taking aggro living in the backline but never fully committing until a vital cooldown or something was used.
To me, there's an extra dimension. As a Zen player, I've learned to generally play outside the range of winstons first jump (obviously this is not always possible, and there are also times where you have the means to handle the dive anyway, or the winston doesn't have enough help), I imagine this applies to a certain extent to other supports, particularly the less mobile ones. The point I'm making is that when a Winston sets up by e.g., jumping to a nearby high ground, it can have the effect of forcing the enemy backline to play more cautiously. As they say in chess, sometimes the threat is stronger than the execution
We have a term for this in the FGC called “skipping neutral”. Usually this is more so a term for a move or characters attribute to skip neutral, but it can also be used to describe inability to pressure an opponent into your win condition due to the inability to (whether through arrogance or genuine lack of understanding) properly play the steps in neutral to whittle the enemy into your win condition and therefore giving them less options for escaping said win condition.
GM dps and collegiate player here It can be a bit hard if the enemy is hard countering you on Road (Hog, Bastion, Torb, etc.), but my Winston and when I play Winston (off role) as a GM DPS player usually comm ‘soft engaging’ to bait enemy cds first or to stage favorably before hard diving Simply letting your DPS know what phase your in, when you’re going in, and when you’re out will be 95% of the necessary comms as tank leadership from my experience
i really needed this video spilo i have about 300 hours on winston and the concept of staging is still a very hard thing to do and i find myself cheating ALOT. THANK YOU!
I don't play a lot of tank (and whenever I do I usually jump right into the backline), so this is really eye opening. A sad thing tho is often when I play support, enemy tanks can get away with just jumping at you bc no one punishes them.
You ever wanna dive in but know you can't dive the Kiri cause she can Suzu and TP (can literally be rewarded for playing out of position.) you can't dive the Bap cause he'll just Immortal and Amp, you can't dive the DPS cause the Supports can just heal bot or immortal and you'd waste all of your CDs, and there's no point in trying to kill the Tank cause they would just be a brick wall of heals........and I'm just like damn how do I work around these 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃 I genuinely have no clue other than to just try to power through all of it and hope someone makes a mistake
Making them use cooldowns and split their attention can win you fights if your team capitalize on it. Yes I know it's not as fun as getting the kills but sometimes that is the right play.
Your job as a tank is to threaten kills to 1. force attention + 2. force cds, at which point your next cycle of pressure should in theory secure kills. It's the same loop of pressure that's been part of the game since launch. Heroes like Bastion/Illari are difficult at punishing you on your first cycle, but dive heroes are still playable (and will likely be quite strong next patch). Some stuff is dumb, but as usual with OW2, 90% of your struggle is simply a skill issue... and that's exactly what this video should help with.
“Can literally be rewarded for playing out of position” ??? No, she just doesn’t get punished as hard. TP and suzu allow her to not DIE for being out of position, but being out of position forces you to use those cooldowns which THEN makes you vulnerable. Having better positioning means you’re better able to avoid having to use those cooldowns (at least selfishly) and that much harder to punish.
Before I watch this vid. I have learned to jump DPS or Support with Winston in this manner. Find any of them isolated, being, aggressive. Use his bubble to isolate an aggressive tank from his support or DPS. You can cover up DVAs ult and protect your team. I also use his bubble and place it between my team and the enemy team like a giant shield. And give my team a head start on shooting and giving the other team damage.
Thank you so much for a video like this. One of my biggest pet peeves of overwatch 2 has been player refusal to acknowledge dive doesn't need to be an A > B process that necessitates a kill per engage.
i honestly just wanna know how to properly play against dive. As someone who mainly plays mercy, kiri and ana im pretzy confident on how to approach rush, brawl and poke i struggle to structure my gameplay when faced with dive. Mostly i know how to position a bit better but thats abt it ;-;
I’ve had a lot of success lately on dive tanks because I used to think I should always lead the dive (and usually I probably should) but after your video talking more about paying attention to your teammates I’ve started to wait and frontline until my other divers are staged then go. I always assumed my teammates would dive when I do but they’re just gonna go when they go most of the time so instead I dive with them. Another huge lesson I learned is never assume. Don’t assume what your teammates will do. Don’t assume those Echo stickies will hit and automatically beam. Make sure you see something before you make the decision.
If you're jumping from cover to cover or high grounds you shouldn't lose more than your mobility cooldown at best, and maybe a tiny amount of HP that should get healed up easily, so you just wait for your short cooldown to come back and continue the process.
@@penrilfake So how would you set up on, say, Durado 1st as Doomfist? There is a Mercy Soldier on top right and a Ana, Dva, Ashe on back top left angle (Dva might be on that building in the middle too). It feels like no matter where I go I'd just get shredded by the soldier and even if he doesn't he zones away/kills any support from the main cart angle. Or what about second point with a AShe/Hanzo/Widow on that back angle sorta near the door (that little corner on the high ground you can peek main from) and a Mercy+Soldier close up shooting down on cart? I basically only know how to play Dva in these situations because I can just "cheat" over and over again and not really be punished too heavily since, well, 3 seconds of matrix, but I'd rather get better at playing Doom if I could help it since I'm more mechanically proficient with him (and he's who I'd be getting valuable practice on).
I have a question, because normally when I try to take angle to get a good dive on Winston the other tank just walks forward and kills my back line, so how am I able to keep the tank from walking while also setting up for engages
Cut off the enemy tank's healing with your bubble as much as your threat of killing or executed killing of the enemy healers. Sometimes you do just get really really bad teams that can't 1v4 a tank with no healing, though.
Setting up sooner than you think you should helps. You have the mobility advantage over a brawl tank walking on your backline, so you should have time to set up before that happens.
Any advice or good videos someone can direct me to on how to deal with poke as rein/ brawl? Had a rough game where the enemy had full poke and I felt like i couldn't do anything...
That's what I do a lot. Because it works most of the times and my timing and awareness are great. But there are some people who don't just let me jump onto them and usually I swap to a more defensive tank which works but I rely more on my team. So using this video as a reminder I will try a different approach when faced with a better enemy team. Thanks Spilo :)
Dps is the same thing. Not taking off angles before dives. Support would be the same as well but also you have to make sure your fellow divers are high enough HP to follow up.
Amazing. The best thing in the year, for me, and talking about OW2, was to discover your content :D helps a lot. I knew the best thing was looking for pro content instead of diving into a TikTok circus xd This decision is paying off!
What would you say about cheating with sigma? I often directly walk past the enemy tank (if its not a rein, hog, or anyone else deadly at close range) and then just shoot the enemy backline from the enemy frontline and it usually works out
Can’t watch the video right now but if you’re under gm and hard stuck and struggling with playing dive,understand securing kills right away isn’t always optimal. You have to gradually pick at their resources and then plan a kill
The enemy dive tank never has a hard time because my tank will never turn around, they'll just keep shooting the double pocketed soldier on the payload.
It's funny cheating is exactly the thing I hate about playing against Sombra. She never has to work to setup an engage she just goes invisible and skips the staging process all together. The counterplay being shoot the air doesn't help either.
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Some Dive sessions to check out:
ruclips.net/video/nuPjU7lRTDo/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/UpaHOmDzhuM/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/mVnkxQXPQpI/видео.html
what would you say is easiest dive tank to learn/pick up? i been hearing winston and ive started to try him even though im in silver ranks, close to gold, but i restarted my ow grind earlier by picking up doom
@@alanwiseman3235Winston, least mechanic heavy
This is so incredibly helpful for me. I’m a doom main (gold/plat) and when I have a night of bad games, I can almost always go back and catch myself “cheating” for hours on end.
This concept really clicked when i watched a t500 doomfist play doom attacking on havana. So much of the game he was just taking aggro living in the backline but never fully committing until a vital cooldown or something was used.
To me, there's an extra dimension. As a Zen player, I've learned to generally play outside the range of winstons first jump (obviously this is not always possible, and there are also times where you have the means to handle the dive anyway, or the winston doesn't have enough help), I imagine this applies to a certain extent to other supports, particularly the less mobile ones. The point I'm making is that when a Winston sets up by e.g., jumping to a nearby high ground, it can have the effect of forcing the enemy backline to play more cautiously. As they say in chess, sometimes the threat is stronger than the execution
We have a term for this in the FGC called “skipping neutral”. Usually this is more so a term for a move or characters attribute to skip neutral, but it can also be used to describe inability to pressure an opponent into your win condition due to the inability to (whether through arrogance or genuine lack of understanding) properly play the steps in neutral to whittle the enemy into your win condition and therefore giving them less options for escaping said win condition.
GM dps and collegiate player here
It can be a bit hard if the enemy is hard countering you on Road (Hog, Bastion, Torb, etc.), but my Winston and when I play Winston (off role) as a GM DPS player usually comm ‘soft engaging’ to bait enemy cds first or to stage favorably before hard diving
Simply letting your DPS know what phase your in, when you’re going in, and when you’re out will be 95% of the necessary comms as tank leadership from my experience
i really needed this video spilo i have about 300 hours on winston and the concept of staging is still a very hard thing to do and i find myself cheating ALOT. THANK YOU!
I don't play a lot of tank (and whenever I do I usually jump right into the backline), so this is really eye opening.
A sad thing tho is often when I play support, enemy tanks can get away with just jumping at you bc no one punishes them.
You ever wanna dive in but know you can't dive the Kiri cause she can Suzu and TP (can literally be rewarded for playing out of position.) you can't dive the Bap cause he'll just Immortal and Amp, you can't dive the DPS cause the Supports can just heal bot or immortal and you'd waste all of your CDs, and there's no point in trying to kill the Tank cause they would just be a brick wall of heals........and I'm just like damn how do I work around these 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃 I genuinely have no clue other than to just try to power through all of it and hope someone makes a mistake
Making them use cooldowns and split their attention can win you fights if your team capitalize on it. Yes I know it's not as fun as getting the kills but sometimes that is the right play.
You dont speed up, you slow down. Force out cooldowns first and then go in. It takes time
Its not like dive is not strong
Your job as a tank is to threaten kills to 1. force attention + 2. force cds, at which point your next cycle of pressure should in theory secure kills. It's the same loop of pressure that's been part of the game since launch. Heroes like Bastion/Illari are difficult at punishing you on your first cycle, but dive heroes are still playable (and will likely be quite strong next patch). Some stuff is dumb, but as usual with OW2, 90% of your struggle is simply a skill issue... and that's exactly what this video should help with.
“Can literally be rewarded for playing out of position” ??? No, she just doesn’t get punished as hard. TP and suzu allow her to not DIE for being out of position, but being out of position forces you to use those cooldowns which THEN makes you vulnerable. Having better positioning means you’re better able to avoid having to use those cooldowns (at least selfishly) and that much harder to punish.
Before I watch this vid. I have learned to jump DPS or Support with Winston in this manner. Find any of them isolated, being, aggressive. Use his bubble to isolate an aggressive tank from his support or DPS. You can cover up DVAs ult and protect your team. I also use his bubble and place it between my team and the enemy team like a giant shield. And give my team a head start on shooting and giving the other team damage.
LOVE YOU SPILO ❤
Thank you so much for a video like this. One of my biggest pet peeves of overwatch 2 has been player refusal to acknowledge dive doesn't need to be an A > B process that necessitates a kill per engage.
Great review, love your coaching sessions with high level players, they are the best
i honestly just wanna know how to properly play against dive. As someone who mainly plays mercy, kiri and ana im pretzy confident on how to approach rush, brawl and poke i struggle to structure my gameplay when faced with dive. Mostly i know how to position a bit better but thats abt it ;-;
All I could think of in this video is SpongeBob saying "Mrs. Puff I think I am cheating" lol
Seems obvious but it's actually a really good point that people try to skip, Good stuff.
I’ve had a lot of success lately on dive tanks because I used to think I should always lead the dive (and usually I probably should) but after your video talking more about paying attention to your teammates I’ve started to wait and frontline until my other divers are staged then go.
I always assumed my teammates would dive when I do but they’re just gonna go when they go most of the time so instead I dive with them.
Another huge lesson I learned is never assume. Don’t assume what your teammates will do. Don’t assume those Echo stickies will hit and automatically beam. Make sure you see something before you make the decision.
OH NO NOT HARVEYFIST
_06:04__ sigma´s face lmao_
love the video, would be cool to see an example in brawl and poke as well for staging!
How do i setup a dive without losing too many resources myself?
If you're jumping from cover to cover or high grounds you shouldn't lose more than your mobility cooldown at best, and maybe a tiny amount of HP that should get healed up easily, so you just wait for your short cooldown to come back and continue the process.
@@penrilfake So how would you set up on, say, Durado 1st as Doomfist? There is a Mercy Soldier on top right and a Ana, Dva, Ashe on back top left angle (Dva might be on that building in the middle too). It feels like no matter where I go I'd just get shredded by the soldier and even if he doesn't he zones away/kills any support from the main cart angle.
Or what about second point with a AShe/Hanzo/Widow on that back angle sorta near the door (that little corner on the high ground you can peek main from) and a Mercy+Soldier close up shooting down on cart?
I basically only know how to play Dva in these situations because I can just "cheat" over and over again and not really be punished too heavily since, well, 3 seconds of matrix, but I'd rather get better at playing Doom if I could help it since I'm more mechanically proficient with him (and he's who I'd be getting valuable practice on).
Doom can generally get away with cheating on the basis of his punch. Saying this as a doom one trick myself.
I have a question, because normally when I try to take angle to get a good dive on Winston the other tank just walks forward and kills my back line, so how am I able to keep the tank from walking while also setting up for engages
Fake a committed jump and drop and bubble right behind their tank, and they are cut off from healing and your team can kill their tank
Cut off the enemy tank's healing with your bubble as much as your threat of killing or executed killing of the enemy healers. Sometimes you do just get really really bad teams that can't 1v4 a tank with no healing, though.
Setting up sooner than you think you should helps. You have the mobility advantage over a brawl tank walking on your backline, so you should have time to set up before that happens.
Any advice or good videos someone can direct me to on how to deal with poke as rein/ brawl? Had a rough game where the enemy had full poke and I felt like i couldn't do anything...
That's what I do a lot. Because it works most of the times and my timing and awareness are great. But there are some people who don't just let me jump onto them and usually I swap to a more defensive tank which works but I rely more on my team. So using this video as a reminder I will try a different approach when faced with a better enemy team. Thanks Spilo :)
10/10 thumbnail, would click again.
Also, what would "cheating" on dps/support look like?
Bastion and Kiriko :)
Dps is the same thing. Not taking off angles before dives.
Support would be the same as well but also you have to make sure your fellow divers are high enough HP to follow up.
Wallriding straight into their backline as Lucio and dying. I have experience with this one.
Gonna see if I can apply this with genji.
You cant
You absolutely can
Genji works better by playing with your tank, he can dive but only if your tank is a diving tank.
This mf and his MS Paints bro its incredible in all the good ways
Amazing. The best thing in the year, for me, and talking about OW2, was to discover your content :D helps a lot. I knew the best thing was looking for pro content instead of diving into a TikTok circus xd This decision is paying off!
Do you have any videos where you just go through all the concepts of Overwatch?
My favorite yapper
Why the proselytizing
What would you say about cheating with sigma? I often directly walk past the enemy tank (if its not a rein, hog, or anyone else deadly at close range) and then just shoot the enemy backline from the enemy frontline and it usually works out
@Spilo do you think that Dva counters Doomfist?
He answered that not even a week ago
Spilo would make you delete your account for asking such a question
@@Bleu_skythat doesn't answer the question
Is it okay to "cheat" if the enemy tank is occupied, cc'd, etc?
Can’t watch the video right now but if you’re under gm and hard stuck and struggling with playing dive,understand securing kills right away isn’t always optimal. You have to gradually pick at their resources and then plan a kill
i just played in a tournment agaisnt ego 1 in Portugal like 2 days ago
low masters doom here that got stuck. i think i just mechanically got myself to that rank on doom. because i cheat almost every single fight
The enemy dive tank never has a hard time because my tank will never turn around, they'll just keep shooting the double pocketed soldier on the payload.
EGO1 MY GOAT
Godarra (Ego1) my GOAT
It's funny cheating is exactly the thing I hate about playing against Sombra. She never has to work to setup an engage she just goes invisible and skips the staging process all together. The counterplay being shoot the air doesn't help either.
this guy thinks he's a couch
You never once explained how to play overwatch