Actually there is a naming scheme for celestion speakers. G stands for guitar the 12 refers to the size 12". The next letter refers to the size of the magnet or at least most of them do: L: Light 20oz S: Small 28oz M: Medium 35oz H: Heavy 50oz K,T, etc. have no particular meaning. Last number indicates the power rating of the speaker in watts. So for example G12M25 stands for a guitar speaker with 12" diameter medium size magnet and a power rating of 25W. A lot of misconception comes from forums and people calling models by the wrong name. For instance the term greenback just refers to the green plastic cap on the magnet same goes for cream and blackbacks. The two most important models in the greenback series are the G12M25 and the G12H30. Both speakers were originally released as G12M20 and G12H25. Celestion increased the power rating on both speakers in 1967/1968 by 5 watts. The G12M20 is now avaiable in the heritage line by Celestion. To make it even more confusing both speakers were avaiable with different resonance frequencies: lead spec in 75Hz and bass spec in 55Hz. Marshall used G12M25 (75Hz) in the 1960 cabs. G12M25 (55Hz) came in the 1982 cabs and the 1935 cabs were loaded with G12H30 (55Hz) speakers. Marshall never used a 75Hz version of the G12H30. Creambacks and Blackbacks are the same as Greenbacks with one exception beeing that Celestion had changed the supplier of cones for the Blackback series. In 2012 Celestion released new models in the Creamback series the G12M65 and the G12H75 these should not be confused with the original Creamback series made in the 1970ies. The G12-65 is a different speaker that should not be mistaken for the G12M65. The G12-65 is also not a part of the creamback series same thing with the G12H30 Anniversary which is also not a part of the creamback series.
Your channel is literally the best. Any time I end up with a random question about how things work, I end up seeing you have a video about the EXTREMELY SPECIFIC thought I ended up having. It’s almost creepy. And nobody else explains so in depth and easy to understand.
I was concerned that this would be from a metal or prog rock perspective but I was wrong. This was a very neutral perspective, thoughtful, thorough and not overly detailed description of the Celestion catalog. As I someone shopping for an upgrade in speakers, thanks!
There's one more often overlooked aspect of speakers is their SPL dispersion pattern. Celestion's are fairly directional, and on axis sound is not only much louder but contains progressively more high frequency signal level. It's usually a product of cone angle, cone material (grain and density) and suspension interplay (spider to edge). It was utilised with bevel front quad boxes widening the pattern vertically, so flat front boxes can sound comparatively more dull depending on how live the room is. Great video too, now found, subbed.
Now you've gone and done it! Off I go with a screwdriver in hand to open the backs of my cabinets, you've tricked me into learning something again! :) Thank You, :)
OK, as it turns out my Hartke 4x12 has 4 G12L (35 watt @8 ohms between them) speakers and my Orange 1x12 has a Vintage 30 (60 watts @ 16 ohms) speaker. Interesting thing is that if I'm actually in the same room playing, I prefer the Hartke's sound and feel, but when I isolate the cabinets and monitor via an sm57 and my studio monitors the Orange cabinet is my favorite. It may be no surprise to you more experienced folks but for me it was a light bulb moment and the beginning of this video more than eludes to the reasons why. Also there was a huge spider in the 4x12 cab and I learned just how fast I am when in retreat, LOL Killer video Ryan, Thanks :) \M/
This should have been titled myth busters! Excellent video. I have been on this journey for decades. Hope more guitarists spend more time, effort and money on their rigs v buying another guitar. Really enjoy your channel and continuously learn something new.
I, like I’m sure many of your viewers have large stacks, but the need for smaller practice amps. I have two 100 watt marshal half stacks running in stereo, but for practice have a number of small amps. Recently I took a budget amp, a Vox vt40. Changed the speaker from the 5ohm stock to an 8ohm celestion gold 40 watt, along with switching out the 12Ax7 to a shop selected triode-balanced Tungsol. Really turned a basic modeling amp into a fairly creamy sounding practice amp -and IMPORTANTLY at wife friendly volumes. 😁. Love your channel 👍
Great video bud! I really dig your no bullshit approach. You are BY FAR the most useful source on YT for budget metal recording. Well done sir! I've been a Vintage 30 guy for as long as I've known what a Vintage 30 is. In the last year or so I've been getting a little bored of my tone, but I also didn't want to completely change my sound, so I went on the hunt for something to blend with the V30. I did a bunch of research and figured I'd be trying different combos for a while, but the first speaker I got ahold of was an Eminence Swamp Thang, and it was an INSTANT match made in heaven. I've never heard this level of chunk from rhythm tones, and even my cleans sound infinitely better. Can't speak highly enough of this combo.
@@jaychen2000metal All 3 different. My thoughts are the T-75 is pretty bright in the treble frequencies. V30(complicated there too Cuz there’s UK made V30s, the Mesa voiced V30 and the Chy-Nuh made V30s) but in a nutshell the V30 is overall smoooth all around. The Mesa voiced has an upper midrange frequency spike to it. Chy-Nuh made are just kinda shitty soundin imo. Greenback is a smoother mellow sound. Not real bright, has more to the midrange to lower mids
@@Mike_HuntizWet I ended up going with 2 WGS reaper 30 watts and and 2 WGS Retro 30's which are 50 at least. Very nicely balanced tone with the Reaper. Retros have more of a 3.2k area bite to them. Might eventually switch out the Retros for Eminence DV-77 just because some say it's the best metal speaker now but gonna hard to beat the Reaper imo
My 1960B from the '90s with T75s sounds awesome, very smooth and balanced. My 1960A from the 2010s also has T75s, but is harsher, possibly beacause the speakers aren't as broken in. They sound great together, but I'd pick the B if I could only keep one.
Put the B cabinet on top of the A and you'll hear it sound like the slant. The B doesn't project to your ears so your missing the kids mids and highs, as they slam into your thighs.
@@one1sol The b cab sounds different to the a cab because of cabs themselves not so much where they are stacked. An A and a B will sound drastically different in the room in the same spot.
Totally agree with you thesis on this one. I put a 1983 G12-65 into my classic 30 and now everything sounds great out of it. Using a podxt I was gifted and the well broken in nearly 40 year old speaker makes most of the xt sims sound a lot better. The newer ones that were added in the update in sound very good but the older models still have that lo-fi shite distortion and the speaker can't save that.
Great vid! I am one of those G12T75 weirdos. I run a JCM 2k Dsl 50 through a 412 1960A cab. These are British made and purchased originally in 1995. They scream and bludgeon all the 90's grunge your little heart desires. From Thayil to Cantrell, Navarro to McCready, all bases are covered. Love them for this niche. I'm interested in blending them with V30's, just wish I could hear a good mix first.
Wow, your knowledge blows me away. I liked the part about speaker bias, its so true--not all vintage 30s are created equal. Same with any type of speaker. A broken in speaker sounds different than a new one. Different runs sound different, ones made in different years sound different. Plus did you know there are chinese made celestion speakers now....and they sound different than the normal ones. A chinese vintage 30 is dif than a regular vintage 30, even though they are made to same specs. Vintage 30’s in an orange cabinet will sound different than vintage 30’s in a peavey cabinet just because of the different materials and wood.
Once i heard the vintage 30 speaker i was sold , it too my ears is the sound i want ! I tried a cream back G 12 M which is good but cuts the mids a bit too much for my bright tube amp but has extended low bass frequencies which are good ! Eminence has many speakers but the Redcoat models distort unlike any amp sound and did not sound natural or familiar as only the Legend series comes close to natural ! Celestion nails natural sound to my ears ! The celestion 70/80 8 ohm model is way to bright for my Laney Vintage 30 amp but the lack of room forbids changing it with any other 12" speaker made that is good !
Could you do a video on trying different speakers in various cabinets? Seems to only be a few videos on this that actually demo it well. You seem like the right guy to address this in its entirety. Thanks.
Not the modern 90 watt models, they are supposedly closer in construction to a Classic Lead 80. The Black Shadow name has been used with a lot of Mesa speaker models over the years, even those from Electro Voice.
The magic is that even the exect the same speakers depending of enclouser you put them can sound so totally different!!! The best example which comes to my mind is standard Marshall 4 x12 cabinet for Marshall JCM 800 and standard Marshall 4x12 cabinet for Marshall Major. Those cabs sound so different but they use exectly the same speakers!!! Post scriptum: There was a valid experiment on RUclips when a human uses exactly the same speakers and put them in to different enclosures and they sound so totally different.
Awesome vid - super helpful to understand what's what. Funny that the speaker IR that caught my attention most for use with my JCM900 is a Marshall 4x12 loaded with T75's. I must just try blending with a V30 like you mentioned and see how I like that :)
Hats off to that Black Shadow sound. Doesn't get any better than that when paired with a Les Paul sporting medium output passives running into a cranked Marshall voiced amp. The Egnater branded CL-80 copy (Celestion Elite 80) is an underrated speaker. It's clear, indistinct, and reproduces lows in a very pleasing way. Its biggest weakness: can be ear fatiguing even at fairly low volumes, especially new, depending on what head it's paired with. Nice thing about Elite 80s is how cheap they are used, usually only fetching about 25 bucks or so.
So, you can use a multi meter to figure out the ohmage of your cab. Set the meter to ohms, obviously. Plug in a speaker cable to the cab. Black to sleeve and red to tip. Your ohms will pop up on the meter. Also, some power amps are auto switching. My Rocktron velocity power amp switches automatically and will run different ohms on each channel if need be. But yes, generally you want to make sure everything matches. I use two V type in my 2x12 cab. They are really good for modern metal..
I just put some v30s in my marshall 1960a 4x12 along with the g12t75s. Figured after all this time i should own some v30s lol. I was lookin at some eminence to
Check out the Fryette/ VHT P50E speaker. Great clarity and punch. After using just about every speaker out there I find the P50E my go to speaker for live and recording. They stay tight with low tunings and have a very detailed mid range and not harsh high end. Every amp head I've plugged into them sounds better in every respect. So I basically gave away my Marshall cab with V30s/ T75s. Highly highly recommend if you want to hear clarity in each note. \m/
I love VHT/Fryette gear. Do the P50’s sound good in other cabs and with other amps? Cuz the P50 Fatbottom cab is a must for a VHT/Fryette amp. Especially the Pitbull line
@@Mike_HuntizWet the p50es are great for any amp. Ive used them with pitbulls, EVHs, mesa dual rec, peavey xxx and 5150 block letter, hughes and kettner coreblade, Diezel D-moll, Marshall mode4/ valvestate- pretty much all of them the p50e enhances the clarity and mid punch. They sound better in oversized cabs vs vht- like mesa recto or Marshall mode4. Switching between front mounted and rear loaded will yield different low end results. Standard vht cabs are excellent cabs tho and are tuned well for the speakers.
@@danomnihility2453 Maybe I need to tweek some knobs then. Cuz my P50 Fatbottom only sounds good with my Pitbull Ultra Lead. None of my other amps are all that impressive through that cab. The Ultra Lead sounds phenomenal through the Fatbottom and sounds fair to decent through other cabs i have
@@Mike_HuntizWet the difference may be guitars/tuning as well- I play primarily baritones in drop A. Depends on the amp- might use an od upfront like the precision drive or tight drive. Im mainly after clarity in the mids for the tuning / increased clarity in the amp distortion characteristics. So I guess it depends on what ones goal of tone may be. Sometimes I'll run the vht along with a v30 cab but always end up unplugging the v30 cab for the harshness it produces with my settings and amps. Also room/garage could be a factor.
A V30 shootout is one of those ideas I've been dying to see through. I would like a few additional speaker samples and a Dynamount or isolation cabinet to obtain more scientific results though.
I don't know, if I got the oppinion wrong. But, in fact the special designed V30s for Marshall and Mesa do exist. They do have different production numbers, than the regular ones. I do own a Mesa 4x12 and the production code on these 8Ohm speakers says T4335 and the regular ones are T3903 for a british made V30 at 8Ohm, T3903A for its chinese version, T3904 for british V30 at 16Ohm. They are definitely voiced a bit different. I experimented with speakers within my Mesa cab, so I found out, that it really is the case.
I’ve tried an array of Celestion speakers, a few Eminence & WGS too. K100 2x12 s’ok not great T75 2x12 ohh gawd no Lead 80s 2x12 wasted money V30 2x12 it works 70/80 2x12 s’ok for a budget Hot 100 2x12 on the fence V30 + Creamback 75 Loving it! V30 + WGS retro 30 awesome V30 + Eminence Man O War pretty decent Eminence Swamp Thang 2x12 ohh shit 👍🏽 Eminence ST + Tx Heat 2x12 nice! I still have all these speakers and experiment time to time with sounds, tedious but enlightening.
Great video as always, perhaps another at some point to cover the celestion F12-X200? Curious to see if it lives up to the hype for the modeling world. I think it's also like 200 watts. Would be sweet if it actually worked as advertised
Mesa Boogie Black Shadow 90 watt speaker is perfect for open back cabinets. I have a Mark V combo that has that speaker in it and it sounds awesome. Blows away the other guitarist 4x12 1960's marshall cabinet.
Great informative video...so my oversize blackstar 112 cab with 70/80 isnt that bad...getting tired of so many comments on speaker videos saying it's not as good a a vintage 30....while they have a 5000 amp and 9000 gibson custom shop criticizing someone's affordable combo amp and epiphone guitar...
I have a combo amp that’s 40 watts The speaker is 75 watts I have the option to use an extension cab I have a cab that has a 25 watt speaker Will it damage that 25 speaker? Or will it be fine considering it’s paired with a 75 watt speaker
Man they raised the price on them Chinese Vintage 30’s by like $60, I decided to go with warehouse speakers instead for my latest build, they sound great.
Going into this video, I thought I was going to have to get a 12x12. Good to know my 2x12 is fine. Also thanks for recommending the Captor. I can now push my Revv 100P to noon volume without dying. Is there an audio system (Waveout?) and sample format bit (24 bit?)/hz sample rate (44100 Hz?) for the amp dry line signal? I connected the Captor Line to a Scarlett Solo Line and I got a constant flatline in Reaper. I could hear the signal in the Captor and the volume ring on the Solo was either red or green. Thanks.
I got it to work in Reaper. I reset to default and put on direct monitoring. You were right about using the Captor as an attenuator 1st. It never hurts to have extra options though. Thanks once again for the information.
I recently bought a Black Star HT1r MKII combo 1w amp, the 8" combo speaker probably sounds as good as an 8" speaker can sound in such a small enclosure, so..l bought a HT112 ext cab to run to, it came with a 50w Factory Blackbird speaker which l believe is made for them by Jenson.. being only a 1watt power supply would it make a huge improvement to buy a blue 15w Celestion to put in it? It's a $$$ upgrade but l think it will drive a 15w speaker better than the 50w speaker.. l play hard rock mostly (Skid Row, Tesla, STP, Nirvana) and if you agree it would make a really worth while desireable tone difference, which ohm would give me the widest response? 8 ohm or 16 ohm?I'm at work and not sure which is recommended for that amp.. just looking to get all l can from this at home practice amp..and one other thing.. will there be a noticable difference once it's broke in?? I have a Scumback in my HT40MKII and Jim says he breaks them in..l don't know what it sounded like before but it's incredible the difference from the Eighty/70 that came in it..THANKS A MILLION FOR YOUR INFORMATIVE VIDEO!!
Been thinking on building a 212..have listened to a bunch of comparisons. Thinking on putting a Seventy 80 with a V30. Love my classic tones, but also love the modern metal tones as well. Any thoughts, tips/input?
What is the G12H 30 Anniversary... an anniversary of? Also, why does it sound like a brighter Vintage 30? I’ve got the 75 and 55 hz versions of the H Greens and it doesn’t sound anything like those or any other greenback.
It's funny that you say we won't see the0 Celestion V-Type speakers in a Marshall JCM style cab cause the studio classic 2x12 from them is loaded with V-Type speakers
setting your head to 16 for an 8 ohm load sounds AWESOME.... for a little while. not recommended. but man does that sound cool. i wouldn't call the v30 versions a theory. orange and mesa have their own branded v30's. there's a very unpopular speaker that came with the jcm2000 cab. Celestion G12E-60. it's essentially a beefier v30. darker, deeper. and less annoying to compensate for how annoying that amp was. k100's are incredible mixed with v30's. my custom cab is 2x k100 and 1x v30. absolutely crushing combo. if you're interested in trying some 70/80's, i've got a pair you can borrow.
@@Mike_HuntizWet personally I have a Chinese one in my cab. I’ve got IR’s for basically every v30 loaded cab imaginable. Some of which in the same cab designated by year. Side by side there’s a difference, but in the clamor of a mix you aren’t going to notice much. It’s nothing you couldn’t EQ out. Realistically I’d like to have v30 from both places and v60 and v70 all in the same cab. Sweep a mic around and see what sounds best that day.
@@xsonicassassinx I actually have 1 older UK made V30. 2 Mesa voiced and 4 Chy-Nuh made. I did a comparison in a older Krank 112 and to me all 3 were noticeably different. But you’re right, in a mix it wouldn’t matter if even noticeable
I looked your video twice, I love your video!! you explain really well!! I have a huge huge question and maybe you could help me in my quest of sound. I'm playing rhythm guitar in my hardcore/beatdown band And I'm playing on a Peavey 6505 ( not the + ) and I'm looking for a great and rich sound. I wanted to know if it would be great to have a 4x12 cab with a pair of V30 and a pair of GT75 ? And how to mix them? _ 2 V30 on top and 2 GT75 on the bottom? _ 2 GT75 on top and 2 V30 on bottom ? _ or in X like the upper side one V30 on left and one V30 on right and on the bottom side on GT 75 on left and one GT75 on right? What do you think about that? Or should I simply use only 4 V30 ? I'm really lost in my quest of sound and a little help could be perfect Thanks a lot and greetings from Belgium !!!!
The X pattern using V30s and T75s is one of my favorite speaker cab sounds of all times. One of the Bogner Uberkabs and the matching cabinet for the Randall satan uses that configuration to great success.
One thing I'll say for the G12T-75 is that its a resilient son of a bitch. I punched a hole in the mesh of my cab with my guitar's headstock and perforated the cone of one of the speakers. Somehow it still works fine. Obviously I missed the dust cap and any crucial components, but I was recording a while back and decided to mic up my torn speaker to see how it sounds isolated from the other speakers and it sounded... normal. No farty flubbyness, at least none that was perceptible to the human ear. Probably some sort of negligible effect on the frequency response but I'm not anal enough to run those sort of tests. The torn speaker is diagonally opposite to the speaker I prefer to mic anyway, so I ignore it and it's business as usual. Was planning to sub in a couple of vintage 30s but the novelty of this speaker chugging along like nothing happened keeps me procrastinating. I think I actually might be sentimentally attached... like it took a bullet for me or something.
I just got a Diezel 212 G12K100 loaded. They seem good. Kind of a flat, almost boring tone. Experimenting now with combinations. A G12K100 with others. So far the combo with an older UK made V30 is nice. With a Mesa voiced V30 was ok. But that speaker has a pretty dominant upper midrange spike and it didn’t seem to blend well with the K
It seems you are somewhat confused about the difference between peak power and RMS power. Take for instance the time factor of peak compare to the safer power measurement to go with RMS. A cynic might think that manufactures changed to quoting peak performance from RMS because peak will always be the greater value in watts.
Best cabs I've ever had were selfmade 12''/15'' with Eminence Kappas (if my memory doesn't trick me) ... until they got stolen right out of my storage unit. But they went extremely well with 90s Hybrid and Solid State Amps.
Hi) i have a question on speakers. A have legend v12 and if i stand in front of it the sound is really wierd. its fizzy, lacks low end. And whats most annoying - the "grain" (or texture) of overdrive becomes unpleasant. But it sounds really nice if i stand 30-50 degree off axis( 1.5-3 meters to the left or to the right from speaker). I dont run my amp very lound, maybe thats the reason?
Am I trippin' or is the video out of sync from the audio @ 03:42? The next video segment (after it cuts to an image) comes back into sync... but for a while here, it's causing my eyes to bug out!
G12T-75 is the speaker you will hate the most IF: - You play alone at home; -You play in a 2 guitar band, and you're not the guy using it. It litterally annihilates you in the mix, even if you use the fancy V30
Cool video, I suppose... Looking through all the "REPLY"s here, I see nobody revealed why the 12" G12M Vintage 30 is designated as "30". My little 2c: 12" = 30cm, hence [Celestion (Vintage 30cm)] manufactured in China. 🙁
Sure, though what exactly is the "true" number is surely a subject for debate. Is it X% of RMS, X% of peak power, or power output at X% of harmonic distortion at Y frequency? Every manufacturer will have their own perspective on this. All of these speakers can probably handle a fair amount more power than advertised, but I would be more inclined to heed Celestion's number for the sake of consistency.
@@PlagueScytheStudios that, and if they just slapped an arbitrary number just to one up and make their stuff sound more exclusive, then its probably better to be safe than sorry.
the G12 m Creamback is not the speaker you are thinking of. you are confusing it with a different speaker called the g12 65. confusing I know because the names are so similar, but they are not the same. the creamback and the g12 65 sound quite different. the g12 65 was discontinued for a time but is now part of celestions heritage series. the g12 65 is the speaker you hear on ride the lightning, master of puppets, and justice
I was surprised that in 38 minutes I didn't learn a single thing other than the unsupported opinions of the host. There wasn't a single example of the actual speakers themselves. All I heard was the narrator's voice and finally some sort simulation.
Actually there is a naming scheme for celestion speakers. G stands for guitar the 12 refers to the size 12". The next letter refers to the size of the magnet or at least most of them do:
L: Light 20oz
S: Small 28oz
M: Medium 35oz
H: Heavy 50oz
K,T, etc. have no particular meaning.
Last number indicates the power rating of the speaker in watts.
So for example G12M25 stands for a guitar speaker with 12" diameter medium size magnet and a power rating of 25W.
A lot of misconception comes from forums and people calling models by the wrong name.
For instance the term greenback just refers to the green plastic cap on the magnet same goes for cream and blackbacks.
The two most important models in the greenback series are the G12M25 and the G12H30. Both speakers were originally released as G12M20 and G12H25. Celestion increased the power rating on both speakers in 1967/1968 by 5 watts. The G12M20 is now avaiable in the heritage line by Celestion.
To make it even more confusing both speakers were avaiable with different resonance frequencies: lead spec in 75Hz and bass spec in 55Hz.
Marshall used G12M25 (75Hz) in the 1960 cabs. G12M25 (55Hz) came in the 1982 cabs and the 1935 cabs were loaded with G12H30 (55Hz) speakers.
Marshall never used a 75Hz version of the G12H30.
Creambacks and Blackbacks are the same as Greenbacks with one exception beeing that Celestion had changed the supplier of cones for the Blackback series.
In 2012 Celestion released new models in the Creamback series the G12M65 and the G12H75 these should not be confused with the original Creamback series made in the 1970ies.
The G12-65 is a different speaker that should not be mistaken for the G12M65.
The G12-65 is also not a part of the creamback series same thing with the G12H30 Anniversary which is also not a part of the creamback series.
Thanks!
All correct except one thing: not always the number indicates the wattage like in the case of the v30 that is actually a 60w
Interesting
Your channel is literally the best. Any time I end up with a random question about how things work, I end up seeing you have a video about the EXTREMELY SPECIFIC thought I ended up having. It’s almost creepy. And nobody else explains so in depth and easy to understand.
I was concerned that this would be from a metal or prog rock perspective but I was wrong. This was a very neutral perspective, thoughtful, thorough and not overly detailed description of the Celestion catalog. As I someone shopping for an upgrade in speakers, thanks!
Ryan, you deserve so many more subscribers. Your content is among the absolute best on RUclips! Thank you for the incredible information man!
There's one more often overlooked aspect of speakers is their SPL dispersion pattern. Celestion's are fairly directional, and on axis sound is not only much louder but
contains progressively more high frequency signal level. It's usually a product of cone angle, cone material (grain and density) and suspension interplay (spider to edge). It was utilised with bevel front quad boxes widening the pattern vertically, so flat front boxes can sound comparatively more dull depending on how live the room is.
Great video too, now found, subbed.
Now you've gone and done it! Off I go with a screwdriver in hand to open the backs of my cabinets, you've tricked me into learning something again! :)
Thank You, :)
OK, as it turns out my Hartke 4x12 has 4 G12L (35 watt @8 ohms between them) speakers and my Orange 1x12 has a Vintage 30 (60 watts @ 16 ohms) speaker. Interesting thing is that if I'm actually in the same room playing, I prefer the Hartke's sound and feel, but when I isolate the cabinets and monitor via an sm57 and my studio monitors the Orange cabinet is my favorite. It may be no surprise to you more experienced folks but for me it was a light bulb moment and the beginning of this video more than eludes to the reasons why. Also there was a huge spider in the 4x12 cab and I learned just how fast I am when in retreat, LOL Killer video Ryan, Thanks :) \M/
This should have been titled myth busters! Excellent video. I have been on this journey for decades. Hope more guitarists spend more time, effort and money on their rigs v buying another guitar. Really enjoy your channel and continuously learn something new.
I didnt realize how much I love the T75 until recently, it's just amazing
I, like I’m sure many of your viewers have large stacks, but the need for smaller practice amps. I have two 100 watt marshal half stacks running in stereo, but for practice have a number of small amps. Recently I took a budget amp, a Vox vt40. Changed the speaker from the 5ohm stock to an 8ohm celestion gold 40 watt, along with switching out the 12Ax7 to a shop selected triode-balanced Tungsol. Really turned a basic modeling amp into a fairly creamy sounding practice amp -and IMPORTANTLY at wife friendly volumes. 😁. Love your channel 👍
I love how in depth this video goes.
Great video bud! I really dig your no bullshit approach. You are BY FAR the most useful source on YT for budget metal recording. Well done sir!
I've been a Vintage 30 guy for as long as I've known what a Vintage 30 is. In the last year or so I've been getting a little bored of my tone, but I also didn't want to completely change my sound, so I went on the hunt for something to blend with the V30. I did a bunch of research and figured I'd be trying different combos for a while, but the first speaker I got ahold of was an Eminence Swamp Thang, and it was an INSTANT match made in heaven. I've never heard this level of chunk from rhythm tones, and even my cleans sound infinitely better. Can't speak highly enough of this combo.
Swamp Thang is a great speaker...don't get me wrong but it has way too much bass for my tastes. V30 is infinitely better imo but to each his own.
I'm just gonna say, I'm very glad, that I'm subscribed to this channel.
I have G12T-75 in a 1x12 semi open, and a Emmenance X1200 Soldano also in a1x12 semi open. They sound great.
I've only recently subscribed to your channel. I'm learning the kinds of things that I've not found elsewhere on YT. Keep in comin'.
Very wise quote - "Jamming sounds is different than the recording or live one" I cannot agree more.
T75s are KILLER!
Tonal differences between them v30 and greenback?
@@jaychen2000metal All 3 different.
My thoughts are the T-75 is pretty bright in the treble frequencies. V30(complicated there too Cuz there’s UK made V30s, the Mesa voiced V30 and the Chy-Nuh made V30s) but in a nutshell the V30 is overall smoooth all around. The Mesa voiced has an upper midrange frequency spike to it. Chy-Nuh made are just kinda shitty soundin imo. Greenback is a smoother mellow sound. Not real bright, has more to the midrange to lower mids
@@Mike_HuntizWet I ended up going with 2 WGS reaper 30 watts and and 2 WGS Retro 30's which are 50 at least. Very nicely balanced tone with the Reaper. Retros have more of a 3.2k area bite to them. Might eventually switch out the Retros for Eminence DV-77 just because some say it's the best metal speaker now but gonna hard to beat the Reaper imo
I agree with the gt75s and vintage 30s in a 4x12 cab criss crossed. Sick
Good vid. I just finished a 24x30x12 cab. Deciding on which two 12's to load into it.
My 1960B from the '90s with T75s sounds awesome, very smooth and balanced.
My 1960A from the 2010s also has T75s, but is harsher, possibly beacause the speakers aren't as broken in.
They sound great together, but I'd pick the B if I could only keep one.
Put the B cabinet on top of the A and you'll hear it sound like the slant. The B doesn't project to your ears so your missing the kids mids and highs, as they slam into your thighs.
@@one1sol The b cab sounds different to the a cab because of cabs themselves not so much where they are stacked. An A and a B will sound drastically different in the room in the same spot.
Totally agree with you thesis on this one. I put a 1983 G12-65 into my classic 30 and now everything sounds great out of it. Using a podxt I was gifted and the well broken in nearly 40 year old speaker makes most of the xt sims sound a lot better. The newer ones that were added in the update in sound very good but the older models still have that lo-fi shite distortion and the speaker can't save that.
Great vid! I am one of those G12T75 weirdos. I run a JCM 2k Dsl 50 through a 412 1960A cab. These are British made and purchased originally in 1995. They scream and bludgeon all the 90's grunge your little heart desires. From Thayil to Cantrell, Navarro to McCready, all bases are covered. Love them for this niche. I'm interested in blending them with V30's, just wish I could hear a good mix first.
I think you said once you are a Mechanical eng. like me. But your electrical knowledge is impressive.
I use K100s and Vintage 30s. Great combo. K100s are more low end and V30s are all mids.
That was very clarifying! Thanks a lot!
so kool man dude that intro with the song material thats awesome
at 2:10 you explain why you need an IR loader, did you mean a power soak?
Think its both
Congratulations on this great video. Lots of doubts cleared up
V30 paired with classic lead 80- unbeatable
Wow, your knowledge blows me away. I liked the part about speaker bias, its so true--not all vintage 30s are created equal. Same with any type of speaker. A broken in speaker sounds different than a new one. Different runs sound different, ones made in different years sound different. Plus did you know there are chinese made celestion speakers now....and they sound different than the normal ones. A chinese vintage 30 is dif than a regular vintage 30, even though they are made to same specs. Vintage 30’s in an orange cabinet will sound different than vintage 30’s in a peavey cabinet just because of the different materials and wood.
Once i heard the vintage 30 speaker i was sold , it too my ears is the sound i want !
I tried a cream back G 12 M which is good but cuts the mids a bit too much for my bright tube amp but has extended low bass frequencies which are good !
Eminence has many speakers but the Redcoat models distort unlike any amp sound and did not sound natural or familiar as only the Legend series comes close to natural !
Celestion nails natural sound to my ears !
The celestion 70/80 8 ohm model is way to bright for my Laney Vintage 30 amp but the lack of room forbids changing it with any other 12" speaker made that is good !
Could you do a video on trying different speakers in various cabinets? Seems to only be a few videos on this that actually demo it well. You seem like the right guy to address this in its entirety. Thanks.
I love the black shadow in the Mesa Lonestar series.
Isnt the mesa black shadow just a rebadged vintage 30 ?
Not the modern 90 watt models, they are supposedly closer in construction to a Classic Lead 80. The Black Shadow name has been used with a lot of Mesa speaker models over the years, even those from Electro Voice.
The magic is that even the exect the same speakers depending of enclouser you put them can sound so totally different!!!
The best example which comes to my mind is standard Marshall 4 x12 cabinet for Marshall JCM 800 and standard Marshall 4x12 cabinet for Marshall Major.
Those cabs sound so different but they use exectly the same speakers!!!
Post scriptum:
There was a valid experiment on RUclips when a human uses exactly the same speakers and put them in to different enclosures and they sound so totally different.
Awesome vid - super helpful to understand what's what. Funny that the speaker IR that caught my attention most for use with my JCM900 is a Marshall 4x12 loaded with T75's. I must just try blending with a V30 like you mentioned and see how I like that :)
Hats off to that Black Shadow sound. Doesn't get any better than that when paired with a Les Paul sporting medium output passives running into a cranked Marshall voiced amp.
The Egnater branded CL-80 copy (Celestion Elite 80) is an underrated speaker. It's clear, indistinct, and reproduces lows in a very pleasing way. Its biggest weakness: can be ear fatiguing even at fairly low volumes, especially new, depending on what head it's paired with. Nice thing about Elite 80s is how cheap they are used, usually only fetching about 25 bucks or so.
i jist picked up a 1985 mesa S.O.B. with a black shadow. wow is all i can say.
Yes, please make a video that explores other speaker manufacturers :)
I really like the V-Type myself!
So, you can use a multi meter to figure out the ohmage of your cab. Set the meter to ohms, obviously. Plug in a speaker cable to the cab. Black to sleeve and red to tip. Your ohms will pop up on the meter. Also, some power amps are auto switching. My Rocktron velocity power amp switches automatically and will run different ohms on each channel if need be. But yes, generally you want to make sure everything matches. I use two V type in my 2x12 cab. They are really good for modern metal..
I have a 90's JTM30 with (stock) an Ipswich made Heritage G12 . It's clean sound is lush.
I just put some v30s in my marshall 1960a 4x12 along with the g12t75s. Figured after all this time i should own some v30s lol. I was lookin at some eminence to
Check out the Fryette/ VHT P50E speaker. Great clarity and punch. After using just about every speaker out there I find the P50E my go to speaker for live and recording. They stay tight with low tunings and have a very detailed mid range and not harsh high end. Every amp head I've plugged into them sounds better in every respect. So I basically gave away my Marshall cab with V30s/ T75s. Highly highly recommend if you want to hear clarity in each note. \m/
I love VHT/Fryette gear. Do the P50’s sound good in other cabs and with other amps?
Cuz the P50 Fatbottom cab is a must for a VHT/Fryette amp. Especially the Pitbull line
@@Mike_HuntizWet the p50es are great for any amp. Ive used them with pitbulls, EVHs, mesa dual rec, peavey xxx and 5150 block letter, hughes and kettner coreblade, Diezel D-moll, Marshall mode4/ valvestate- pretty much all of them the p50e enhances the clarity and mid punch. They sound better in oversized cabs vs vht- like mesa recto or Marshall mode4. Switching between front mounted and rear loaded will yield different low end results. Standard vht cabs are excellent cabs tho and are tuned well for the speakers.
@@danomnihility2453 Maybe I need to tweek some knobs then. Cuz my P50 Fatbottom only sounds good with my Pitbull Ultra Lead. None of my other amps are all that impressive through that cab. The Ultra Lead sounds phenomenal through the Fatbottom and sounds fair to decent through other cabs i have
@@Mike_HuntizWet the difference may be guitars/tuning as well- I play primarily baritones in drop A. Depends on the amp- might use an od upfront like the precision drive or tight drive. Im mainly after clarity in the mids for the tuning / increased clarity in the amp distortion characteristics. So I guess it depends on what ones goal of tone may be. Sometimes I'll run the vht along with a v30 cab but always end up unplugging the v30 cab for the harshness it produces with my settings and amps. Also room/garage could be a factor.
@@danomnihility2453 What amp(s) you runnin through the P50’s?
Are they in a Fatbottom cab or something different?
I have everything go through a Yamaha P.A. System, it always sounds amazing 😉🎸🇨🇦
Hey Brotha, this type of comparison would be awesome for the Peavey combos and heads of the 80's.
Comparing British v30 to China made would be a nice idea.
A V30 shootout is one of those ideas I've been dying to see through. I would like a few additional speaker samples and a Dynamount or isolation cabinet to obtain more scientific results though.
and then there's also the "special" V30smade for certain brands
@@PlagueScytheStudios Fuck yeah! Looking forward to that. In depth comparison would be first on RUclips I think.
made in china is not good and wont last
afaik there is no difference whatsoever
would like to hear more on Thiele parameters for cabinets and matching speaker Q to right cabinet volume choices
I don't know, if I got the oppinion wrong. But, in fact the special designed V30s for Marshall and Mesa do exist. They do have different production numbers, than the regular ones. I do own a Mesa 4x12 and the production code on these 8Ohm speakers says T4335 and the regular ones are T3903 for a british made V30 at 8Ohm, T3903A for its chinese version, T3904 for british V30 at 16Ohm. They are definitely voiced a bit different. I experimented with speakers within my Mesa cab, so I found out, that it really is the case.
Oh absolutely. All 3 are noticeably different
I’ve tried an array of Celestion speakers, a few Eminence & WGS too.
K100 2x12 s’ok not great
T75 2x12 ohh gawd no
Lead 80s 2x12 wasted money
V30 2x12 it works
70/80 2x12 s’ok for a budget
Hot 100 2x12 on the fence
V30 + Creamback 75 Loving it!
V30 + WGS retro 30 awesome
V30 + Eminence Man O War pretty decent
Eminence Swamp Thang 2x12 ohh shit 👍🏽
Eminence ST + Tx Heat 2x12 nice!
I still have all these speakers and experiment time to time with sounds, tedious but enlightening.
Vintage 30 on my BadCat... love it
Damn. Great channel.
I have been super interested in the V-type/A-type lately.
I own a Fender Bassbreaker 2x12 with two V-Types and they're great sounding speakers, They have a real voice to them.
Great video as always, perhaps another at some point to cover the celestion F12-X200? Curious to see if it lives up to the hype for the modeling world. I think it's also like 200 watts. Would be sweet if it actually worked as advertised
Mesa Boogie Black Shadow 90 watt speaker is perfect for open back cabinets. I have a Mark V combo that has that speaker in it and it sounds awesome. Blows away the other guitarist 4x12 1960's marshall cabinet.
A sound comparison would be good.
Sooo true. Very good informative video
Great informative video...so my oversize blackstar 112 cab with 70/80 isnt that bad...getting tired of so many comments on speaker videos saying it's not as good a a vintage 30....while they have a 5000 amp and 9000 gibson custom shop criticizing someone's affordable combo amp and epiphone guitar...
the best speaker is the one that sounds best to you - i've been digging the G12T 75's over the V30's lately because they sound better to me
I have a combo amp that’s 40 watts
The speaker is 75 watts
I have the option to use an extension cab
I have a cab that has a 25 watt speaker
Will it damage that 25 speaker? Or will it be fine considering it’s paired with a 75 watt speaker
Man they raised the price on them Chinese Vintage 30’s by like $60, I decided to go with warehouse speakers instead for my latest build, they sound great.
I been thinking about Reapers
Going into this video, I thought I was going to have to get a 12x12. Good to know my 2x12 is fine. Also thanks for recommending the Captor. I can now push my Revv 100P to noon volume without dying. Is there an audio system (Waveout?) and sample format bit (24 bit?)/hz sample rate (44100 Hz?) for the amp dry line signal? I connected the Captor Line to a Scarlett Solo Line and I got a constant flatline in Reaper. I could hear the signal in the Captor and the volume ring on the Solo was either red or green. Thanks.
I got it to work in Reaper. I reset to default and put on direct monitoring. You were right about using the Captor as an attenuator 1st. It never hurts to have extra options though. Thanks once again for the information.
I recently bought a Black Star HT1r MKII combo 1w amp, the 8" combo speaker probably sounds as good as an 8" speaker can sound in such a small enclosure, so..l bought a HT112 ext cab to run to, it came with a 50w Factory Blackbird speaker which l believe is made for them by Jenson.. being only a 1watt power supply would it make a huge improvement to buy a blue 15w Celestion to put in it? It's a $$$ upgrade but l think it will drive a 15w speaker better than the 50w speaker.. l play hard rock mostly (Skid Row, Tesla, STP, Nirvana) and if you agree it would make a really worth while desireable tone difference, which ohm would give me the widest response? 8 ohm or 16 ohm?I'm at work and not sure which is recommended for that amp.. just looking to get all l can from this at home practice amp..and one other thing.. will there be a noticable difference once it's broke in?? I have a Scumback in my HT40MKII and Jim says he breaks them in..l don't know what it sounded like before but it's incredible the difference from the Eighty/70 that came in it..THANKS A MILLION FOR YOUR INFORMATIVE VIDEO!!
Been thinking on building a 212..have listened to a bunch of comparisons. Thinking on putting a Seventy 80 with a V30. Love my classic tones, but also love the modern metal tones as well. Any thoughts, tips/input?
I'd appreciate a video on mic placement on the t-75. I just could never get it right.
I really wanted to try the Celestion Lynchback! But, they are hard to find now.
I HAVE 4×12 / 65W & 2×12/25W AND IT GOOD TO GET HER AND IT LOUD HI AND LOW AND MED IF I NEED IT , GOOD INFO***
Having samples of these instead of descriptions would be ideal lol
I got my cheap-0 bugera 333xl 2x12 with 1 sheffeild 1230 and 1 clestion lead 80 12 sounds great for my ears. People sleep on the sheffeilds dunno why
What is the G12H 30 Anniversary... an anniversary of? Also, why does it sound like a brighter Vintage 30? I’ve got the 75 and 55 hz versions of the H Greens and it doesn’t sound anything like those or any other greenback.
It's funny that you say we won't see the0 Celestion V-Type speakers in a Marshall JCM style cab cause the studio classic 2x12 from them is loaded with V-Type speakers
setting your head to 16 for an 8 ohm load sounds AWESOME.... for a little while. not recommended. but man does that sound cool.
i wouldn't call the v30 versions a theory. orange and mesa have their own branded v30's. there's a very unpopular speaker that came with the jcm2000 cab. Celestion G12E-60. it's essentially a beefier v30. darker, deeper. and less annoying to compensate for how annoying that amp was.
k100's are incredible mixed with v30's. my custom cab is 2x k100 and 1x v30. absolutely crushing combo.
if you're interested in trying some 70/80's, i've got a pair you can borrow.
Which versions of those speakers you having good luck with?
Chinese made? UK made?
Mesa voiced V30?
@@Mike_HuntizWet personally I have a Chinese one in my cab. I’ve got IR’s for basically every v30 loaded cab imaginable. Some of which in the same cab designated by year. Side by side there’s a difference, but in the clamor of a mix you aren’t going to notice much. It’s nothing you couldn’t EQ out. Realistically I’d like to have v30 from both places and v60 and v70 all in the same cab. Sweep a mic around and see what sounds best that day.
@@xsonicassassinx I actually have 1 older UK made V30. 2 Mesa voiced and 4 Chy-Nuh made. I did a comparison in a older Krank 112 and to me all 3 were noticeably different.
But you’re right, in a mix it wouldn’t matter if even noticeable
I know this was about celestion 12”, but what’s your take on upgrading or changing the speakers in a combo? A combo with a 10” or even an 8”?
As a big Zakk fan too would be interested in EV demo. Also have you tried any of the new Laney pedals especially the boost and reverb. Thanks
hey any thoughts on pairing a t75 and a mesa black shadow in a 2x12 closed back?
Is this dude related to Guthrie govan?
I looked your video twice, I love your video!!
you explain really well!!
I have a huge huge question and maybe you could help me in my quest of sound.
I'm playing rhythm guitar in my hardcore/beatdown band
And I'm playing on a Peavey 6505 ( not the + ) and I'm looking for a great and rich sound.
I wanted to know if it would be great to have a 4x12 cab with a pair of V30 and a pair of GT75 ?
And how to mix them?
_ 2 V30 on top and 2 GT75 on the bottom?
_ 2 GT75 on top and 2 V30 on bottom ?
_ or in X like the upper side one V30 on left and one V30 on right and on the bottom side on GT 75 on left and one GT75 on right?
What do you think about that?
Or should I simply use only 4 V30 ?
I'm really lost in my quest of sound and a little help could be perfect
Thanks a lot and greetings from Belgium !!!!
The X pattern using V30s and T75s is one of my favorite speaker cab sounds of all times. One of the Bogner Uberkabs and the matching cabinet for the Randall satan uses that configuration to great success.
One thing I'll say for the G12T-75 is that its a resilient son of a bitch. I punched a hole in the mesh of my cab with my guitar's headstock and perforated the cone of one of the speakers. Somehow it still works fine. Obviously I missed the dust cap and any crucial components, but I was recording a while back and decided to mic up my torn speaker to see how it sounds isolated from the other speakers and it sounded... normal. No farty flubbyness, at least none that was perceptible to the human ear.
Probably some sort of negligible effect on the frequency response but I'm not anal enough to run those sort of tests. The torn speaker is diagonally opposite to the speaker I prefer to mic anyway, so I ignore it and it's business as usual. Was planning to sub in a couple of vintage 30s but the novelty of this speaker chugging along like nothing happened keeps me procrastinating. I think I actually might be sentimentally attached... like it took a bullet for me or something.
NEO creamback, my new discovery.
For some reason I find Mesa speakers/ Mesa rigs just sound dryer. Like the Arizona desert dry.
So different than Marshall. Mesa. Gotta love it.
Any use of a k100 (even an IR) for some metal would be appreciated
I just got a Diezel 212 G12K100 loaded. They seem good. Kind of a flat, almost boring tone. Experimenting now with combinations. A G12K100 with others. So far the combo with an older UK made V30 is nice. With a Mesa voiced V30 was ok. But that speaker has a pretty dominant upper midrange spike and it didn’t seem to blend well with the K
It seems you are somewhat confused about the difference between peak power and RMS power. Take for instance the time factor of peak compare to the safer power measurement to go with RMS. A cynic might think that manufactures changed to quoting peak performance from RMS because peak will always be the greater value in watts.
What are speakers though?
Best cabs I've ever had were selfmade 12''/15'' with Eminence Kappas (if my memory doesn't trick me) ... until they got stolen right out of my storage unit. But they went extremely well with 90s Hybrid and Solid State Amps.
I have a similar idea with a bass and guitar speaker. But with two twelves.
Hi) i have a question on speakers. A have legend v12 and if i stand in front of it the sound is really wierd. its fizzy, lacks low end. And whats most annoying - the "grain" (or texture) of overdrive becomes unpleasant. But it sounds really nice if i stand 30-50 degree off axis( 1.5-3 meters to the left or to the right from speaker). I dont run my amp very lound, maybe thats the reason?
Speakers sound bright when you're right in front of them. If you crouch so they're ear level, they sound even brighter
Am I trippin' or is the video out of sync from the audio @ 03:42? The next video segment (after it cuts to an image) comes back into sync... but for a while here, it's causing my eyes to bug out!
G12T-75 is the speaker you will hate the most IF:
- You play alone at home;
-You play in a 2 guitar band, and you're not the guy using it.
It litterally annihilates you in the mix, even if you use the fancy V30
Just so you'll know, the best know users of G12K-100 are Slayer.
Cool video, I suppose...
Looking through all the "REPLY"s here, I see nobody revealed why the 12" G12M Vintage 30 is designated as "30".
My little 2c: 12" = 30cm, hence [Celestion (Vintage 30cm)] manufactured in China.
🙁
You forgot the copper backs, 250watts, INSANE
Yep, I meant to mention that with the rest of the Neo speakers but forgot.
No biggy, I guess make another video later on describing those. But I also think that theres a regular one along with the neo one. I may be wrong tho
Did you consider Marshall and mesa may have printed the true numbers, or tested themselves?
Sure, though what exactly is the "true" number is surely a subject for debate. Is it X% of RMS, X% of peak power, or power output at X% of harmonic distortion at Y frequency? Every manufacturer will have their own perspective on this. All of these speakers can probably handle a fair amount more power than advertised, but I would be more inclined to heed Celestion's number for the sake of consistency.
@@PlagueScytheStudios that, and if they just slapped an arbitrary number just to one up and make their stuff sound more exclusive, then its probably better to be safe than sorry.
Yes Amp Jesus - Amen 🙏🏻
Lynchback?
V30...the 30 is 30cm....aprox 12inch...not 30watt
the photo behind you is a bit blurry... are you a skydiver?
the G12 m Creamback is not the speaker you are thinking of. you are confusing it with a different speaker called the g12 65. confusing I know because the names are so similar, but they are not the same. the creamback and the g12 65 sound quite different. the g12 65 was discontinued for a time but is now part of celestions heritage series. the g12 65 is the speaker you hear on ride the lightning, master of puppets, and justice
Wierd how the 70/80 has much more highs than the classic lead 80
I was surprised that in 38 minutes I didn't learn a single thing other than the unsupported opinions of the host. There wasn't a single example of the actual speakers themselves. All I heard was the narrator's voice and finally some sort simulation.