Will 50/50 Acetone & ATF Break Loose Rust?| Engels Coach Shop
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2024
- My experiment, from your suggestions, to find out if 50/50 acetone and automatic transmission fluid works as a penetrating oil. I constantly deal with rusted, frozen metal parts and want to find good approaches to a never ending problem. Is this the answer? Thanks for coming along.
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Ive been repairing fire hydrants for 36 years. HEAT is your best friend!
Nice!
Didn't know that was a job... 36 years on the job, you must like the work.
it cannot be stuck if it is melted :)
Aye! Liquids move.
Is the brass threaded rod he's using as a drift from hydrants?
The paradox of fire hydrants ... they need fire; they extinguish fire.
I learned a technique in ship yards . Heat the stubborn bits up not as far as cherry but good and hot . Then sprinkle water on the inner part. The point is to expand the outer part and contract the inner . Any bit of movement is the beginning of a win. Just my 2¢.
I've been wondering why no one mentioned cooling the inner part (shaft) either by pouring water or putting wet rags on it. It's the difference in temperature that is important, except for burning out the rust as Dave explained.
My father-in-law taught me this, but it has the effect of tempering the steel, so on something that can't be brittle, like an axle, it's not a good plan
@@tntpfs using mild heat was the idea .
@@tntpfsjust heat it back up and let it cool naturally if you think you've hardened it.
The problem with that is that you can't put a lot of force on hot metal as it's in a weakened state. I heat the shaft to cherry which causes it to expand against the bore. Then let it cool and shrink away from the bore. That movement is usually enough to break the rust bond. Application of oil is 10x more effective after the parts have been heated and cooled.
I think they are suggesting you go ahead and apply the solution to all of the rusty joints you see before you even start disassembly. If I have something I know is rusty and know I’m going to take apart I’ll start lubricating them a few days before I get to them.
What i thought too. Acetone on a hot surface makes it evaporate and do nothing.
I am a retired Industrial Salesman. I covered the entire State of Maine calling on all types of Industry for more than 25 years. One of my product lines was a line of Maintenance Chemicals and yes you guessed it, one was Penetrating oil. I tried to put WD 40 out of business but they probably ended up selling more as a result. We had a pretty decent product, but in the end the Customer usually stuck with what he used first, what ever that product was. I had a lot of my customers using my product also, but I couldn't convince everyone to use it. Here is a couple of stories you will get a kick out of. One potential customer asked (after my presentation) does your product stink? I replied no Sir, there is no offensive odor at all, why do you ask? The customer replied, "well if it doesn't stink, it won't work". He won that one! One thing about heat, there is no recipe, heat is heat and the results are mostly immediate which you have proven. Penetrating oil needs time, some people have it and some don't. Case closed! Great videos and you do marvelous work and education. Joe
Another Mainer here Joe……04062!
About an hour North of Bangor checking in here.
If I had to guess, I would say that you sound like the ZEP guy. lol
Morning Dave & Diane, Heat it the only solution (no pun intended) that will work 100% of the time for commercial requirements. As you said about time, If you have a month to spare and soak the object it might work. Expanding and contracting the item, especially if its cast ont mild steel will crack the bond. I wondered about heating g and putting a penetrating oil on as well ? As the oil burst off and leaves carbon behind adding to plugging the thing up? Well you have confirmed my theory anyway, penetrating oils don't work on stuck metal parts.
Regards Richard 🇬🇧
I didn't sell Zep but they had a lot of products in my area. Good products also. Zepreserve and Zep 45 come to mind.
@@bigbossimmotal
WD40 is the scourge that keeps on coming back into all forum threads and rarely do I go into some weekend warrior's garage and not see at least one big bottle of it. There are virtually dozens of purpose-made products that outshine WD40. WD40 is a water displacement formula that was made for when gasoline-powered airplanes used distributors. Spray that in the cap and your moisture issue is gone. Since then it has been used on everything and the cure for leprosy. It's cheap and discounted heavily in bulk. It's not a rust penetrant and not even a good lubricant. Quit supporting that hapless industry and buy better products. It's a little better than nothing or spit.
In my 70s now and worked on my cars for all those years in the rust belt. The heat wrench is to only tool to get things moving, once it's a bit free, penetrating oil helps with the galling.
That's the way I do it, heat gets it started and moving and then penetrating oil does the rest of the job!
I was a Millwright for a 40 years and we always used Kroil. When we couldn’t get it we used diesel mixed with ATF.
But the Polish Hot Wrench was always the closer.
Love that stuff, ain't anything that works better, IMHO. Love the smell of Kroil!
Yep I agree. Bust out the gas ax.
Had a part on a lathe that the first owner had tried to unstick it , I soaked it for a week with Kroil an it broke loose .
@eSlayerHonestly, I've tried about a half-dozen or so rust penetrants over the decades in my shop including 'the great' Kroil. I haven't found that Kroil works any better than PB Blaster in any application or against even old cans of Liquid Wrench for that matter. And acetone/ATF is as good as any of the store-bought solutions.
@@TheReal1953 To be fair, I can believe that. Kroil's the one I've used most faithfully, so my sample size with other brands are definitely smaller.
I've used ATF/Acetone 50/50 for many years, and when it is too slow, heat works with it too. The acetone gets in nearly everywhere and carries the ATF with it, but completely rusted closed will need heat for expansion. Each time I have to free up a fastener, it reminds me to add anti-seize to its replacement so that the next person doesn't have the same problem. Enjoy your channel, thankyou for your efforts and pls keep educating and entertaining.
I too have been using the 50/50 mixture and has always worked for me.
when I was younger, I was reminded that the "next person" might be me. Now that I am 70, I just take pity on the next poor bastard and keep doing it to last as long as possible. (lube or anti-seize)
I have always used the Mexican Speed Wrench (Torch) and always only heated one half or less of the stuck piece so as not to expand the shaft. Quick (Rosebud) application of heat. That is a delicate casting you would not want to break but after heating in other situations, banging the shaft vertically on a large Hardwood block might work better than the Brass Punch. More inertia.
There are many ways to do things, what works is the best one. Those Induction Heaters are very impressive.
In Sweden there is a half fictional thing called the AGA-wrench. As the company AGA is the main supplier of welding gases here in Sweden it is nu surprise that AGA-wrench means HEAT!
Hand me the gas wrench please
"gas-axe" is a similar euphemism here in Australia. (Meaning an oxy-acetylene torch.)
@@MichaelKingsfordGray Same here in the States, gas-ax is a cutting torch.
After reading all of the replies, and observing that 80% of them ratify using heat. I have a question. I'm a lifelong carpenter/woodworker, not a metalworker encountering rusty/frozen components all that often. But when I have, I always assume that adding a lot of heat, will also create a good amount of expansion. So I've always let the components fully cool, before adding force. I'd be curious to know what the rest of you think, on the necessity of my "extra" step. It always seemed like an application of physics, by my understanding.
@@woodfella21conventional wisdom is to heat the part up and let it cool off because the expansion and contraction cycle can break the rust free and you stand less chance of injury from the hot part and less chance of bending or damaging the part when it has gone back to its normal temperature. But some really f'ed up parts won't do anything until you wrench on them while they're still hot and more flexible / looser from the differential expansion and contraction.
Just imagine how clever auto makers are to get their cars to rust away to dust in ten years.
It's called planned obsolescence.
Different strokes for different folks 🤔👍♥️
@@MrChrissy1r not even close, most rustbuckets happens for one of 2 reasons:
-the owner just didn't take particular care of the vehicle
-the vehicle spent a lot of time on the road in winter (salted roads)
the former is pretty self explanatory, a large number of people just don't take good care of their vehicles these days, leading to lot of early issues that could be easily avoided by following basic recommended maintenance in the owner's manual
the latter is more present today as way back in the early days of automobile, it wasn't done as much (if at all) so old vehicles that survived to us in good order because of that or they stayed off the roads during wintertime didn't suffer from the action of salt, which is a helper to rust (which is also why cars in coastal areas suffer more from rust than further inland)
of course doesn't help that moder auto making practices tend to use thinner steel stock to make the panels, instead using shaping to create rigidity, so any rust will eat through quicker than in a thicker skinned vehicle
steel made to tasty for rust mites.
They are not clever, the owners of the car are just ignorant. If you use cavity wax, oil, grease etc on the underside, nooks, crannies of the auto it will last 70+ years.
Heat always works. My greatest success is from heating things up good and then while hot I hose it down with whatever penetrating oil I have at hand.
Not a scientist but have been involved in the supply of metals so here's what I do know.
Most metals are a made using heat to process (don't quote me it's been decades) Aluminium processed at around 600 deg C
Stainless Steel at about 1k - 1.5k deg C
When heated most processed metals expand
Now here's the way I'd try to remove. Heat the outers (hubs) but after removing heat cool the bars. Whilst heating the whole surrounding area will increase (hub & bar) in size - to gain from using heat the bar's heat needs to be reduced.
Yes most lubricants will assist but they need to be able to penetrate the gap first and if there's no gap there's no assistance.
When Mr Engel first heated he used the lubricant (which is cold) almost on the bar (through the oil hole) then oiled the bar next to the hub (again cold lubricant). But when excessive heat is used to cool the bar excessive cold must be used otherwise it just burns off/evaporates.
Happy to be challenged
As a mechanic in the rust belt I always seem to try the less drastic methods first and have occasionally had limited success, but if I am in a hurry or can't afford to drill and tap and new hole or whatever I go straight to heat as well. If it fails to come apart after heating it the part was going to break anyhow in my opinion. Lol
Bring on the heat so you can get done and go eat. Great job Dave. No doubt that you know what you're doing but someone always thinks they have a better idea. Stay safe and keep up the great videos and the fun you have around there. We appreciate your projects that you share with us. Fred.
Wow, how much calm and competence you convey 😊
I spent many years in paper mills we tried every kind of penetrating oil out on the market, but the only one that was proven to work has always been HEAT !!! Basically all the penetrating products on the market are snake oil. They help once the rust bond is broken but do not penetrate. You proved it on your shaft where the tapper key is was dry no lubricant got anywhere near it. Another great video Dave sure you’re going to get back lash but proof is in the pudding.
people buy the snake oil because of television commercials. they seem to forget everything on television is a commercial trying to get your money.
yeah I think penetrating oils are one of the biggest hoax ever. Because people need to believe in something that can help. It's a religion :-)
I'm with you on the heat method, I didn't have the time when I was working. Can you imagine what the foreman would have said if I wanted to soak it for a week.
As I have seen it (I am a mechanic with 40 years experience) heat works on the principle of expanding material with heat and, in appropriate cases, shrinking by cooling. In the case where a stud or shaft is seized within a large mass, such as an engine block, heating won't work because expanding the block will actually tighten the hole. If the hole is near an edge of the block, heating only that thin edge could work. It should be noted that when a metal is very hot, it is weaker and could shear. Many times heating and then cooling very quickly (quenching) can break the hold of rust.
Meh I've heated studs and bolts and stuff in engine blocks and freed them up. It isn't ideal, or easy but it's possible.
Hydrochloric acid about 35 per cent to 65 percent water does a fairly good job at cleaning cast iron and mild steel. I am waiting an occasional to try it on some things like the stuck bolt syndrome. I've used it at a 50/50 ratio for quicker results. Acid can be mild or too potent either case plenty common sense caution with safety is a mandatory requirement or 😢😢😢
Dave, this was one of those de javue moments when you have been so focussed on getting something loose that when you finally have success you turn around but can’t find your way out because of the smoke, I agree heat is your friend with rust, in NZ we have a lot of old stationary engines that get restored and often they are seized solid pistons in barrel etc. One method to free them up is to drag the engine outside ,build a big fire around it and let the fire burn all night, in the morning when it is cool the piston just drops right out and often does not damage the rings. Seems to work.
I came to the same conclusion back in the 60's and haven't looked back! Thanks for posting and take care!
As a millwright, the only difference in the application of heat we use is to heat a specific line parallel to the shaft. This makes the heated material act as a wedge and spread the hub apart to free it from the shaft. Mostly use this approach on steel, NOT cast iron. Cast iron may shatter or ceack drom the uneven heating.
Mr. Engel, you have many decades of experience. I would trust your judgement above mine or anyone elses. Love your work and hope someday to meet you in person!
The project farm (a youtube channel) did quite a number of tests on penetrating oils. What I took away is that it really doesn't penetrate much. He tested many brands and the acetone/atf mixture. If you can get the part to turn a little, I think the penetrating oil helps. Other than that, I'm not sure it does much. Heat always works. However, I still spray rusted fasteners with penetrating oil and hope for the best.
Todd broke it down and penetrating oil improved it by about 10% Heat was 50%. So heat is about 5 times better than penetrating oil.
I have never had the guts to go to red heat. That is probably why my vocabulary is so complete.
Penetrating oils work if you can soak overnight but if you want it off now get the torch. We use to have a 5 gallon bucket half full of kerosene that we’d throw things into to soak overnight if they fit in bucket
Nah not even then. Once rust has created a hermetic seal nothing material is going to get in there. Then you need to attack on the atomic level. Heat will penetrate. The oxide has the oxygen it needs to burn too. So you don't need to worry about getting that in there because it's already there.
I bought a bucket full of c clamps at a yard sale. It still had rusty water up to the top. I dumped it and filled it with used motor oil and diesel. It sat for a week and i still had to get the torch out for the larger clamps. The rust is simply larger than the steel it used to be. It forms a seal that has to be broken before any lube can penetrate the space. Heat will expand the parts and crack that seal.
Since I have been watching your videos religiously you have saved me SO much time, effort, and money!
One day, this knowledge will come in handy in my life. One day.
Heat is a great friend, but
because i have no tools to heat at very high temperature , i use electrolisys when the size of the piece fits in large bucket.
Of course it takes several hours but it solve the problem in most cases.
Ciao from Italy to all of the followers of this educational channel
Electrolysis or chemical rust removers, either acid-based or Evapo-rust type, are the only way to remove rust, short of abrasives. It's hard to use abrasives on a rusted in bolt.
From experience fumes from PB Blaster are very toxic.They made me take a trip to the emergency room some years ago.Do not use heat with Blaster.I really enjoy your videos keep em coming.
Interesting, but the problem is that penetrating stuff does not and cannot "loosen" the fretting rust that has grown between two parts. This rust physically occupies more space than the gap that moisture originally used to get between your parts, thus forming a very tight binding of the parts. Also, rust is much harder than the parent steel or iron, is crystalline in structure, and is unlikely to simply erode away with rust dissolving stuff. Heat, on the other hand temporarily expands the parts, and thus breaks any bond between crystal rust and original steel or iron parts, allowing movement to be judiciously commenced. This essentially grind rust against rust into powder. Of course in some situations the amount of rust is really thin, and any rust has yet to form a tight complete non porous binding layer, and penetrating stuff can indeed facilitate movement. Generally, however, heat is the only answer. Could be wrong of course.
An excellent description of why penetrating products are unable, in extremely rusted situations, to do any good. Cheers from Australia.
agree ! good explanation, have the same thinking not one product is capable of breaking rust bond
I think the penetrating oils work, with "time". Being a woodworker, I am mostly dealing with rust when I'm repairing or renovating an old machine. So I'm not in a hurry, and don't want to harm a casting or de-temper some part. But yeah, if you are in a hurry, that is, you want it off today. Heat seems to be the major ingredient.
Heat, obviously, does 2 things: burns the rust and expands the outer metal piece; which also breaks it loose and then it's bigger as you get it to move.
Now if you add Kerosine and mineral turpentine, with your acetone and ATF, all in equal parts, you will have Ed's Red and you have an allround rust breaker, lube and preservative. I love the stuff.
I still reckon you'd benefit from spraying everything with penetrating oil right at the start of the project. By the time you get to a lot of what needs to come apart it will have had time to penetrate.
At a certain level of rust nothing is going to penetrate. That's just the nature of the beast. Not in a day, a month, a year, or ever. The seal is just too good. But below that level of total seal then penetrating oils can have an effect.
I know Dave is a Montanan, but with all his well-earned skepticism you'd think he was from Missouri, the "Show Me" state. My vote for the best method is HEAT & BEAT!
Love the videos!
I grew up three doors down from his parents house, he is about the age of my parents, my mom grew up four doors down from him
I helped an old timer loosen the pivot on a farmers dump truck bed. Both the sleeve and shaft were steel, not cast. They were engaged about 10 inches. It took much heat follower by dousing with water. It took heat and shock any times.
I think I'm going with you on using heat. It has convinced me with your demonstration!
My dad was a mechanic. As a child I distinctly remember the smell of Liquid Wrench in an old wooden cabinet in the garage. I never tried using it, but I'm positive I could identify it by smell to this day, and I'm 77 years old. Thanks for reminding me of my childhood!!
I had an old friend 80 years old he restored old machines like you do he would go out after a long rain drizzle maybe two days that is when he would remove parts so water was the best! Put it in a 5 gallon pail of water over night!
Boiling water actually works surprisingly well. The problem is it's so rare to be in a situation where you actually have loose parts you can stick in it.
I’ve always found that the bigger torch and bigger hammer 🔨 method
works best . LoL 😂
When working with antique cast parts that are no longer replaceable, the smaller vs larger hammer is best to reduce the chance of cracking a rare part. A little here and a little there tends to prevent that yet takes more time and patience but the end result is more controllable.
Good on you Dave for giving your viewers suggestions a crack. Personally I would have thought Acetone would dry the joint out despite the oil. Heat is your best friend!
I agree with your assessment of penetrating oils, it's a bit of an oxymoron. If there is a passageway for the oil to migrate, it will help. If it's watertight with rust, you're going to need heat. The mixture of acetone and ATF is likely similar to most commercial products, a lightweight oil coupled with a strong, thin solvent. Add some kerosene and mineral spirits to the mix and you have a home brew bore cleaner for firearms that is widely used (Ed' Red). Any oil works ....once you've broken the rust bond.
Heat is the great leveller - nothing beats it. Been doing this stuff all my life, now I’m 76, never found anything that works as good.
Hi, same here totally agree.
I live in the rust belt. Loctite is not needed. Most of the time if I taking a part off under a car the torch makes all penetrating oil work. The next time is easier because I used anti seize. Probably the only thing that will "creep" between seized parts is Evaporust if you have the time to wait. That might be a long wait.
My grandfather used to use vinegar on rusty parts a few hours before messing with them... given enough time vinegar will completely dissolve rust, but over shorter periods will still break down and loosen rust. After a few hours he'd spray a little oil and things would usually come apart pretty easily. He used "cleaning" vinegar which is usually 20-30 percent, not the 5 percent stuff you cook and make dressings with.
Most strong acids will dissolve rust. Sulphuric, for example.
The trouble is that they also etch the base metal! That the rust is consumed more rapidly than the steel is because of its porous nature.
Phosphoric acid does it as well but then create iron phosphate that neutralizer rust. This is used in car body work in hallow parts
Acetic acid attacks the rust but the result may be an insoluble iron oxide -acetate. It still may work since the solid rust will become a loose powder. But citric acid is better, since the iron citrate is soluble in water. It is great for removing rust from exposed surfaces.
@@MichaelKingsfordGray Indeed, so one must use a small quantity of acid and/or remove and rinse the part as soon as bubbles appear. (The bubbles are hydrogen that is formed when the acid reacts with metal instead of rust.)
An acid of some sort is the only liquid that makes sense to me. Penetrating oil does not penetrate solid rust and even if it did, all you would have is oily solid rust still.
After watching, I would always use heat. I don't have the patience to play with things when I want to get the job done. Thank you for the experiments it teaches me a lot.
When using acetone/ATF you have to use synthetic ATF, it is a much smaller molecule and tends to creep better.
😂 come on already!
Its always a thrill to finally see a stuck part start moving! I'm a little limited on the extent of heating, and severe solvents like acetone, I can use on painted and decorated antique sewing machines, but use heat whenever I can once I've determined Kroil isn't working. One particularly frozen solid handwheel finally came loose once I dribbled some Evaporust into the joint and waited an hour.
As usual,, "Father, knows best". Very interesting. Thank you and Mrs. Engles for allowing us to tag along. God bless.
Growing up we ended up soaking parts in the atf/acetone mixture. Was never a quick solution or applied in small amounts, we submerged the parts. Heat typically is better for most applications. Kroil works well for some applications, I use it in gunsmithing where a lot of heat is not an option.
In Project Farms test Kroil came in dead last. But the spread wasn't much between best and worst. So it was just statistical variance.
As one who often struggles to dismantle a long neglected saxophone I have many times heard the acetone ATF suggested but am yet to try it myself. PB Blaster ain't something that has worked for me. Excellent presentation.
Acetone is redundant around heat. It evaporates around 58 degrees;
The purpose of acetone in the atf is to thin the mixture and help it to penetrate further.
@@philmenzies2477 But since the Acetone evaporates almost immediately how much "thinning" is actually provided? I suspect not much in this case, perhaps more in cases were it can sit for some time before heat is applied.
I would think if you are going to use heat then use straight atf
Sometimes the best offence is a good defense. Well done my friend..
Your comment about I want it lose now is the best. We rebuilt old farm stuff and had a waiting list and we'd soak stuff for a week in drums of old oil or spray them daily with whatever the go to product was at the time . But in the end when it was time to work on it it came lose or we got the torch. Really looking forward to seeing all these bits and pieces come together .
Another great video showing us what works for you and your reasons for doing it that way. Thank you for the education.
Diane is gonna be pissed when she figures out you took her measuring cup!
Under the rim toilet bowl cleaner is the best rusted bolt buster never fails me. Busted things loose that I had no hope other than the scrap pile.
Check the label to see if it contains muriatic acid. That is probably why it works.
@chrisallen2005 most of those cleaners do
Rusting of metal is an ionic chemical reaction. All the suggested penetrating fluids, apart from toilet bowl cleaner, are organic solvents and will never react with rust.
@@millwrightrick1All I know is the toilet bowl cleaner works and the friends I told that tried it still use it.
I knew I'd find it as I searched through the comments. And here you are. I switched to acids out of desperation about 10 years ago.
More recently,
I had to drive a hardened pin out of a very rare and fragile part for my neighbor. He had destroyed his original and by dumb luck found an other one on some farm equipment site. He paid dearly to get it. And he had all but given up on it. Due to fear of destruction. Until he found out that I'm a machinist. And asked if it could be milled out.
(Usually I use the bathroom tile rust remover. Because it has a squirter in the cap. But now the tirlet bowl cleaners have one. And they smell minty fresh. )
Anyway I said I'd give it a try. Well, three days later I gently tapped the pin out and without damaging the part. I never did ask what the part was for. But it doesn't matter anyway.
Heat works great. Thanks for the video.
Well sir as one of or the only one (?) that brought forward the 50/50 mix of ATF- acetone I thank you for giving it a try, it works for me, I also forgot to mention the mix needs to be shaken at every application, that being said, I am no where near dealing with the rust you are dealing with, but, heat is the really the best go to, if its available. Once again, thanks for giving it a chance, thank you for the video and I appreciate your time that you spend on the production of them.
Have had the best luck w/ 50-50 mix of mutton tallow & nitro glycerine.
My daddy always said never use force, get a bigger hammer.
Nice Shop! Thanks for doing the Video! Enjoyed Your Presentation!
83 year old Bob in Indiana
Mounting your work vertically would have automatically increased the wicking of your lubs. I appreciate your patience which I hold as the major key to a quiet sucess of any such efforts,
You have tooooo many projects to wait a week for nuts and bolts to soak and loosen up . What works for you is the best for you. 😊
Heat and beat is always the best method
My uncle would sometimes use dry ice in combination with heat
Lived the video Thnks for your insight
We all have 'favourite' ways of carrying out certain tasks, and it is hard to define a single method. Wahatever works best for you, is the way to go. Good video as always
Hi we do not have many wagons in England, but it is great watching you repair / make things. I put oil on all parts as soon as I start the project, and repeat as they take weeks to complete, gives the oil time to work. Philip
Free-All has become my go-to standard - stupid-expensive, but it has impressed me every time I've needed it. May not be as cost-effective as some of the other methods, but for something you can toss in the toolbox for a quick-grab on an away mission, it's beat out everything else I've ever used. AeroKroil used to hold that spot for me, but Free-All kicked it off the list. (Kroil's rankings weren't helped by the series of cans I'd had that were still half full but out of propellant. Not putting up with that for ~that~ kind of $$$)
What causes cans of penetrating oil to run out of propellent is shaking them. Then you mix the propellent with the oil and spray propellent out. Shaking penetrating oil doesn't do anything for it. The mix can't go out of suspension. So try to resist the urge to shake the can and you might get a bit more juice out of the cans.
............I have re-pressurized spray cans many times with compressed air. Have not had one burst yet. I'm 81+ Full trade Metal-worker worked in Mining shops for 20 years.
@@legend7ify Valid, and fair enough, but when you're 600 miles from home and the can in the back of the truck is flat, it is still a useless waste of space in the toolbox.
@@1pcfred I don't shake 'em. And Kroil is the only ones I've had that problem with.
@@Charley_Buehner that's good. I'm a can shaker myself. But when they run out then I dent the can in to pressurize it some more. I buy WD-40 by the gallon jug and just put that in a pump spray bottle. Problem solved. Aerosol cans are a rip off. When the dent don't work anymore then I'll cut cans open and pour the juice out into a jar and use a brush.
Heat always beats rust. It’s time tested. Anything else is just snake oil
Bravo! Thanks for sharing and the best of luck!
Pleasure to watch and learn. Thanks for sharing.
Ever consider using a ball-joint pickle fork for separating?
Dave, in the 70 thru 80,s I worked for a company that took chlorine from salt. This part of the plant was called Sodium. You can imagine what all metals would become. I was a welder in sodium. I used HEAT to break parts loose. That was the only way.
You are a brave man to go down that road. 😁
If I know I need to disassemble rusty parts, I let spray PB Blaster ahead of time I hit the area with PB Blaster and let it dwell as long as possible before trying to break the parts free. Often you have to shock the rusty weld with heat and then saturate the area with Blaster (or whatever) to help loosen the parts.
Since you never gave the items time to soak, you didn't really test them. Just went with the heat straight away and you already know that works. You should have plenty of frozen bits that you can soak for up to a week or more knowing that you can't get to them right away. Pre soak those bits (and maybe hit them with magic juice from time to time). Then when you get to them, you can see if heat is still needed and once apart, inspect to see how much the magic juice soaked in (if you haven't burned it out by then).
Several ATF formulations work on frozen motorcycle engines where the application of heat would be verboten. Well, at least the rosebud level of heat application. In your use case I just don't see the application of heat being avoided - but just maybe pre-soaking in magic juice "might" reduce the amount of heat you'll have to use.
Acetone & atf will need to be shook almost continuosly as the 2 do not mix willingly at all the Acetone floats on the TQF /ATF . Also the Acetone wil have evaporated well before the heat did anything the only active bit was the OIL nothing else
Lol! Acetone and ATF is about as good as powder coating. They both suck and too many sheep have fallen for them.
Hi Dave. My Dad always used heat & a couple of times liquid nitrogen to seriously cool the internal part. Stubborn parts always got heat & application of a set of pullers & a large punch.
Stay safe and well.
After 25 years as a marine mechanic in the southern US and the tropics in salt water my go to is "KROIL". It has a distinct aroma but will work (far better than pb blaster) where others won't.
I've found Kroil better the PB Blaster, but it's not as readily available. As far as letting it have some soaking time, how long have you had the item in question? I spray everything well in advance of starting any planned work. You could have sprayed everything the day you rolled it inside. It's just something you've got to get in the habit of doing. If I knew I was going to be do some weekend wrenching, I'd spray everything down on Wednesday or earlier.
I have seen men nearly come to blows over the which one is better argument.
HEAT always wins, Thanks for video
Great video. I have learned so much from your videos.Thanks Dave and Diana😊
Tuned in and learned a thing or two. Thanks
Thanks for the experiment. My Grandpa always said to put some heat to it! It has nothing to do with rust but my dad and Grandpa would always use a gas / ATF mixture to un-gel a diesel tractor in the winter time. It was a last resort but it always worked. The gas would break down the gelled diesel and the oil would add lubricant to the gas. Thanks for the video!
I'm in my 70's worked on old cars and boilers most of my life. Heat and penetrating oil. I use pb, and atf with #2 fuel. But the heat is the key! Great video. Thank you.
thank you for your videos they are very well done
At work the mechanics didn't like to use heat because of hot work permits required and all the restrictions that came into play. After years of various penetrating oils (price was no object) they found Kroil seemed to work the best. It's very expensive and the stock room would not stock it. The boss gladly paid the price out of the credit card account for our department.
Once again thanks for the video, and remember you can't beat the heat.
Thanks for the lesson
If you go and have a look at somewhere like Workshop Wednesday over at the Australian Armour & Artillery Museum where they are pulling apart rusted hunks of mechanism they are using heat almost exclusively with penetrating oil applied once things start to move. They once did use an Oxalic Acid bath to chemically remove rust from a gear box or differential but it had limited success. Nice to see the rebuilds from your shop. Thanks!
Dave, I really enjoy watching all of your videos and I truly learned so much and I'm so grateful for all that you share. Love you I've had to deal with significant corrosion especially in dealing with.
You can take this or leave it but what I have found to work so well is a high-pitched vibration to break down corrosion. What I use is a high pitch aircraft rivet gun and build various angled or special rod ends for the gun by cutting Hammer rods to the dimensions I need to get the maximum surface area to the area I want to vibrate. This is really very simple.
By utilizing the aircraft rivet gun at the various frequencies that you can adjust them to you can dissolve rust and corrosion very quickly. I have saved myself tremendous headaches and taking apart engines and drives that are assembled with nuts and bolts including studs
You can buy used aircraft rivet guns very cheaply surplus or otherwise and the various bits that fit the guns. Of course a compressor with adequate Air supply is required. It does not take much really. If you get a chance you might try this and find yourself quite surprised.
I have to agree with your initial assessment. Heat is your best bet. After years of watching my Dad experiment with different penetrating oils, he usually turned to the 'blue-tipped-wrench'
HEAT! Thanks Dave.
I'm with you, if I'm working on something I'm not waiting a week for it to soak in, I want it off now.
Regular White Vinegar has always been my go to for breaking down and removing rust.
In today's example I would have started with a bearing spreader/puller for the first part and moved over to a hydraulic press with the spreader or notched steel plates for support. In both cases I would start with a penetrant cold first and add heat if cold didn't work.
great job Dave it looks smoky in your shop
There is a "thing" floating around the interweb about penetrating oils used in a "scientifically rusted" (their quote by Machinists workshop magazine) stating 50/50 mix working the best... I have the screen shot of it. I'm skeptical as well. And have been silently waiting for this test. 100 years of mother nature rust vs scientific rust are worlds apart.
After reading all the hoop-la on the internet I tried this 50/50 mixture myself. What was immediately apparent is the acetone and ATF fluid are not compatible meaning they won't mix together and separate rather quickly. No matter how hard I tried or how long it sat it didn't seem to work any better than anything else in my shop.
I really enjoy your channel Dave!!
I’ve done enough of this to agree with Dave, heat IS the word! Penetrating fluids have their place but they a/ need time to work and often need repeated soaking and b/ are for those among us (as I was for decades) who don’t have an oxy/acetylene outfit in the corner 😉 because the little propane torch only goes so far! Thanks for the advice as always Dave!
Standing objects vertically so gravity assists fluids to travel further into joint might also influence the outcome. We do what we can with what's available, tks for trying a few things out.
I agree with your "free the part now" philosophy of heat. However, when you know rusted parts will be addressed in a week or two why not use KROIL ORIGINAL PENETRATING OIL on the joints and let it go to work for you. Maybe things will come apart easier. Regardless, thanks for taking us along your ScienceGuy experiments. Fun and interesting! 👍👍👍
Who's a good torch !! Great video, LETTE'R BUCK !!👍