EEVblog
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- A look at the new Rohde and Schwarz NGP800 800W system power supply. Teardown and a brief play around.
Subscribe on library: lbry.tv/$/invi...
Forum: www.eevblog.co...
EEVblog Main Web Site: www.eevblog.com
The 2nd EEVblog Channel: / eevblog2
Support the EEVblog through Patreon!
/ eevblog
AliExpress Affiliate: s.click.aliexpr...
Buy anything through that link and Dave gets a commission at no cost to you.
Donate With Bitcoin & Other Crypto Currencies!
www.eevblog.co...
T-Shirts: teespring.com/s...
Waiting for Dave to find one of these in the garbage room, brand new in box.
The box looked like it came form the garbage room (see twitter). I actually forgot to include the unboxing part of this at the start, d'oh.
That would have been an awesome troll. Like if he showed himself picking them up in the trash room, still in the box they were delivered in.
He won't soon my lease starts in a month and a half
It’s April first soon. 😇
Golly, I'd give my eyeteeth for Dave's dumpster finds over an ordinary year.
We had a shiny moment of no start-up time in history, right between "wait for the tubes/valves to heat" and "wait for system to boot"....
Yeah! That correlates with: "No markings on buttons and levers (like Fritz Langs "Metropolis" technics) = only for experts
to "names on every key and keys on keyboards with LCD screen on them" = for erveryone
to swipe gestures and multi clicks today = ??? !
Aviram Iancovici You brought it nicely to the point. These days are gone forever 😔
I'm not exactly sure why I watch your channel, because I have no idea what you're talking about 95% of the time, but for some reason I really enjoy your videos. I have managed to glean a little bit of knowledge from you, however. Thank you for that.
The thing I love about this channel -- the most, actually -- is that I get to see and get a nice little two-dollar tour of bench equipment I'll never be able to afford and will never hope to have. Yet, the channel also shows off the bargain equipment that I can afford and make use of, too, from time to time. Lovely stuff as always. Many thanks.
Looks orange to me Dave. I mean, that’s clearly orange.... might want have those old mark one eyeballs checked Dave
I’d hate for you to mix up the green and red wires!
*insert ‘lethal weapon’ disarming bomb scene*
To be fair, eyes often don't match cameras for colors
And eyes sadly don't have a bunch of settings to mess up for white balance, color correction, lol
True. Was just a suggestion. It’s up to him if he thinks he needs to be concerned
@@tinnturps Yeah I get ya. Just adding my 2c
Yeah, I agree. Channel purple/cherry however...
Colorblind here: channel 1 matched the color okay enough for me. The problem is channel 2 and 4. Almost Identical colors for me :)
Achromatopsia here. Same as you! For me, the channel 1 on screen and on the supply were identical, but channel 2 and 4 are a problem.
Same for me, Red-Green specteum will make lots of problems IMHO
I used to make video games and we ran into these color design issues all the time. Just imagine making a match-3 puzzle game with lots of colors and then me bitching about that I couldn't play the game because the colors were all the same. Yes that resulted in more than one fight: they had to uglify the game, or I had to accept that I couldn't play it correctly. But luckily in the end we always found a compromise. I guess they didn't have a color blind in the design team at Rohde and Schwarz :)
Good design shouldn’t rely only on color, it’s easy enough to add different brightness instead of just changing the hue. Add symbols to different channels like a circle a triangle square etc, or maybe stripes idk lots of option for the design team, it’s their only job... I’m not colorblind tho but I always have color blindness in mind while making design decisions
@@victornpb Same for me. Not color blind, but always thinking about it. For instance, al indicator LEDs on front panels are coloured, but also positioned in such a way that without the colour information, you do not lose any functionality. and I NEVER use dual colour LEDs if I can avoid them (which so far is always).
OMG up to $9,000 AUD for that sucker. I'll stick with my first-year-apprentice-built power supply for now.
chillzwinter
Yep. I used XE.com and nearly died. Although any thousands of Euros is always a lot of of Aussie bucks.
The old Pacific Peso (AUD) has taken a beating recently, vs US$. Almost not worth buying anything at the moment.
Choose between car or powersurply
chillzwinter : correct. Or you could get a nice little Siglent for a couple of hundred. $$. I wish you well Sir.
not worth it. i would pay only 200 Aud for it
28:25 I was screaming, "Push it in. Push the knob in. Please post the knob in!" LOL
When in doubt, push your knob in.
Its funny really as on most reviews Dave always tests encoders for rotary and push operation, surprised he initially missed that.
25:30 Looks close enough to orange on my screen. In fact in my photoshop screenshot it become RGB-140 , 115, 61 whereas real orange is 255, 165,0 ; so perhaps it needed a little more red, a little more green, and a little less blue, but then the yellow is equally off at RGB-168,166,111 where it should be 255,255,0.
I was thinking the same thing. Looked orange on my screen as well.
Needed *a lot more* red, a little more green, and less blue.
The real issue is that for channel 2 they use black text on a blue background on the UI, but white text on a blue background on the panel. Hopefully fixed in the next firmware update!
@@JonathanRockway Similarly with purple. Definitely not WCAG2.0 AA-level accessibility compliant.
If I had to guess, the colors are probably RAL-colors.
31:06 35:03 Dave please use the arrows on the right ">" of the menus to acces advanced options!
Right Arrows in User Interface shows by taping that menu, you can go in, deeper!
it's so awesome seeing a pretty complex machine like that and all of it's components working together correctly
At first I was like "Oh, I built my own but it's pretty limited. Maybe I'll finally get a professional unit.", but then I was like "Holy SH!T that bastard is expensive!"
That Riden he reviewed a few months ago is pretty nice for the price. There's cheaper ones out there too, but with less features.
Way too expensive.
The little power supply modules Dave reviewed a while back are fantastic! I have the DPS3003, combined with an old transformer, bridge rectifier and a cap, and can supply around 26 volts at 3A! Never had a problem with it. Could even put 2 of those in a box to get dual channel.
Good design and manufacture. Usually not cheap, but usually worth it, if you need more than a hobbyist needs.
$6k!
It's nice when you get 5,000 USD equipment to play around with when you didn't even ask for it. But then, I am sure Dave's recommendation is worth every cent of it.
I'd like to see some outout noise while under load tests as I'm an old fashioned linear " Cor look at the massive toroid transformer " type .
"I'd love a pro power supply"... sees price... "Ah I love my Riden rd6006 - it'll do me like forever"
For those playing along at home. Conres has them (NGP814) in-stock, for sale right now, brand new on their Ebay store......FIVE GRAND!!!! WOOOOOO CHILD!!!!
Oh man I love the look of this. And it's R&S! Signal path would also like a look at this. Thanks DJ! Edit - Just finished watching. wow. what a unit. In love.
Great PSU, Great video! I got really envious. I'm all set up regarding PSUs for now, next item on my shopping list is a Keithley DAQ6510, but good to know this beauty. Thanks for sharing Dave.
Try connecting a 200W DC brushed motor to it, and watch it destroy itself from the inductive spikes.
That RJ45 cable.... somebody was like "oh shit, we need to add Ethernet, but no time to redesign boards :D".
"No one told us there was an Ethernet interface. We will have to use a standard cat5 solid cable... no time to do a custom cable"
@@gorillaau Better solution is no cable at all, but wizbang PCB route :)
@@xDevscom_EE True. But probably too late in the design process to rectify that design issue.. or note it and move on to a bigger fish.
Might also have done that to keep from getting sm noise imposed into the network. I have seen this a few times in devices. That need to meet very high emi standards.
I would suggest it was deliberate, to maintain as many twists in the Ethernet pairs for as long as possible.
Wondering about the longevity of that adhesive tape that is sticking everything to the heatsinks...
Chincy, isn't it? This thing is a SMPS @ $3250. Notice Daiyve fobbed off on showing us the noise floor and ripple on this thing.
Dave please do a complete review on this PSU.
Sorry but the number of people who that would be of real value to would be quite small.
@@EEVblog That's a bit of a dodge, Daiyve. Afraid to show the noise this thing produces?
@@EEVblog Uh C'mon Dave, everyone enjoys watching your detailed reviews.
@@EEVblog I'd be interested. Some of my applications actually need something like this device.
You will have to play around with it more, but my guess on the safety limit settings is how high the user can set things on the front panel without coming back into that menu.
I like the modular design of this board. No space constraints and it is nice.
i really do like the fact that it comes with 2 32v 20A channels and 2 64v 10A channels, i find it very annoying to track 2 channels and bust out the special cables for when i want to work with 48v devices
The older ones (HMP series) do have "auto remote sensing" if you wanna call it that way. They have a resistor inside between the output- and sense-terminals (something in the range of 1~10kOhms). If you don't plug in anything to the sense terminals, that resistor just feeds the voltage straight from the output terminals into the voltage feedback. But as soon as you plug anything into the sense terminals on the front or back - which will have a resistance signifincantly lower than 1k - that will "override" the resistor, so then the voltage from the sense terminals will be fed into the voltage feedback.
I'm sure Mrs. EEVblog has one of these at home - a happy love life is key and if a power supply is what turns Dave on, that's just fine 😷
My impression from this video is that at R&S, MBAs are trying to cut costs at every corner, and the engineering department is fighting them tooth-and-nail. Prime example in the cables being soldered to the boards. Sure, most certainly it doesn't affect performance, but detracts from the "perfectly engineered" feeling. Maybe for a few tens of dollars in cost reductions in a many-thousand-dollar device.
Response to a pulsed, resistive load would be interesting. And values of the output capacitors. And actual response time of current source.
color must have fallen out of daves eyes downunder.... i have no problem seeing the difference...
Manufacturer's rarely consider red/green color "blindness" that many males suffer from. Yellow & Blue, OK. Red/Green/Brown/orange, not good choices.
@@NeverTalkToCops1 ..... Indeed, one in seven males. (Passed on by the Mother I believe).
You can no longer (for a number of years now) have a label when broken, voids the warrantee, in the USA. You’re allowed to open your own equipment and still have the warrantee. Even if it’s imported, and has the sticker, it’s not valid here.
Put your mouse over the timestamp, close your eyes and click ^^ 5:23
What's the difference between a choke and an inductor?
I know a choke filters out noise & an inductor stores electricity. But other than that, is there a difference?
I think I’ll need to check Dave’s dumpster to see if there are any old power supplies he didn’t need anymore :)
The closed caption option is absolutely hilarious translating Australian slang haha.... Gorgeous looking piece of gear....
I would've left the screen protector on. It would be really annoying to get the display all scratched up on such an expensive piece of equipment.
something about top-end circuit boards that just look so CLEAN
20:09 could be a dual half-bridge LLC resonant converter due to the wide output voltage range.
Well I do love a coincidence.
I was watching this exact video on youtube when I got an email from Element 14 telling me that I had won one of these power supplies in a competition they ran a few months back. Due to Covid lockdown shipping to me was delayed, but it turned up tonight,
Packaging looked as though it had been on the loosing end of an All Black ruck ( You know that look when we have beaten the Aussies yet again :-) ), but the power supply is in mint condition and truely a thing of beauty.
4 channels of DC power supply niceness.
I would be a bit dubious about using standard banana plugs for 20A outputs. Even if R&S spec'd super high quality sockets they could be quickly ruined at 20A output by a lower quality banana plugs generating excess heat. The output socket pairs would be better laid out horizontally rather than vertically as this would facilitate easier routing of heavier output cables.
One of your spare ones wouldn't be bored here in Denmark.
I could really use one for refurbishing/renovating my JVC HR-S5000 Super-VHS machine and for observing what impact the (hopefully minimal) ripple from a R&S has on the video circuitries, compared to the original JVC Power Supply Unit.
Do you know why it is taking so long to boot? Self-tests? Booting a bloated OS?
Dave the Power side on the Ethernetcable is the POE - that means if you don't have a AC Powercable connected so you can get the full 800Watt Power over the POE (Power over Ethernet cable) too. - That was only a joke :-)
It's just a pity it's switching supply. Real transformers (like they used in the previous models) last 5,000 years. With these switching turds you have to be lucky to get 5. Also, don't know why they rely on just the adhesive for the switching components to make contact with the heat sink. After a couple of years, when the glues dries out, they will be just 'flapping in the breeze' without cooling.
Even I'm a R&S fanboy (their scopes are absolutely amazing), I don't get the vibe with this supply.
We should buy the HMP-models while they're still available...
What an amazing and satisfying design. lovin' it.
Dam Dave wish you hadn't edited out the ten minute rant on resonant converters! I for one would have loved to hear it, and I'm sure to not be the only one! When it comes to the EEVblog there's no such thing as a video that's too long!
This looks very nice, it's on the shortlist as soon as my vintage Thurlby PSU gives up!
Nice to have a video overview of the inside, but after listening to this video I will watch EEV videos without sound, if any.
so how is working? a pfc stage and 4 separate smps ? the main mosfet is like 100v rated... or there is a supply for like 64v and then small dc-dc converters transform to individual channels?
It would be nice if that user-defined button would light up when whatever it's controlling is toggled on (for the functions that toggle). Seems like that would have been a fairly simple thing to build in to it.
how it is extremely fantastic when they soldered the fuses on the main board? i couldn't believe that sorry.
They also glued the power transistors to the heat sink. Not good enough for a +$3000 power supply.
£4200!!!!! I think the most expensive board I've had on my Rigol DP832 was a measly £1800. Love that touchscreen, really well laid out.
Hi Dave, Thanks for posting. As for the power supply
it's no doubt it is good as usual, but I have some notes on how to design of it
1. This design makes the possibility of maintenance difficult, meaning that it is not easy to service in the event of a problem, because in this case you must disassemble the whole device and remove all jacks in order to perform the maintenance process.
2. In fact, I am surprised that they installed the parts on the coolers and did not install the parts with screws or part screw in bracket to secure the parts right.
Thanks god bless
With built-in WiFi you should be able to control it from any PC over the internet, could be useful for remote control and monitoring
I'll have to see if it's got a built in web page, that would be cool.
@@EEVblog - All hi-end test equipment today come with an embedded web server
Fantastic craftsmanship in the inside.. looks like a very high end audio amplifier..the likes of Burmester, MBL, T+A, darTZEEL, Avantegarde..and the name goes on.
The overvoltage protection in a respectable power supply does little more than that. It should have a "crowbar circuit" i.e. a transistor or a thyristor that puts a short circuit across the output terminals. That is needed to protect connected electronics from a situation when, say, it's powered from multiple power rails and high voltage is leaking from one rail to another.
So does the delay option mean that as your adjusting the voltage it won't change live until you're done?
I desperately need one like this, but man it's a lot of money.
"A bit of a premium". 5000 dollars almost for a power supply ?
I wait a few months until they are available in special bundle like the scopes.
But wait... Haven't got one of those, still too expensive 😀
I wish they had fit in a few more buttons. Making the screen a bit smaller in height and adding a row of buttons to access specific functions below it might be nice.
I feel like the power supply's that I have wouldnt measure 3mV off at open circuit and 1mA off at open. Is there a calibration procedure?
Power supplies, you can never have too many of 'em, even if you wind them yourself!
That internal ethernet cable should probably be STP to prevent internal noise affecting the networking..? Cool device.
Odd: They re-arranged the layout of the four panel connectors for each channel compared to the HMP4040 you reviewed a while back. Not just rotated, but the red and blue are effectively reversed. So if anyone wanted to be clever and make a little 4mm to terminal post adapter board, they would have to be different for each model! Have a look. Duh. Not that anyone with a $4K power supply is probably very worried.
There's a lot of computing power in what is essentially a variable voltage supply. An Freescale i.MX6 1.2 GHz ARM Cortex-A9 processor (not sure which model, could even be multi-core), 512 MB of DDR3 RAM and 4 GB of flash storage. I bet this thing runs some form of Linux on it. That would explain why it takes quite a while to boot.
That PIC32 is an 32-bit MIPS MCU and there's two of them by the looks of it, one on each two channel module.
The GUI should need some polishing still... Maybe just the video, but in the menu, the white text over the greenish-blue background seems badly visible. A little bit more spacing between the buttons on the numpad would make it nicer... Please add colors. Number/arrow/button groups could have a different color.
The number input screen really shoud have remain shown while turning the knob. It looks very distracting that it disapperas. Maybe there should be an "123" or so icon near every number, and if you press that, it will bring the numpad up, if you just press the value, you could select it for changing just via the encoder.
Maybe the numpad should be made smaller to fit all the channel info beside it (for the channel you are editing, to see what other values changing, current, power, CV/CC...)
I would add an Apply and an OK button on the numpad screen, the Apply would set but keep the window open to allow another setting, the latter would set and dismiss the screen (as used to on computers).
It's not a software thing, but would be nice to see some more hardware controls. A cursor left/right near the encoder would be a bare minimum, and output on/off for every channel (keeping the existing synchronized on/off button).
Love it! Wish I could afford it for my home lab.
If you have too many power supplies Dave, happy to take one off your hands, thanks mate.
Beautiful! I need to, eventually, get a proper bench/rack supply... Currently I am running my homebrew ATX-PSU-based one which does great for most things but, occasionally, I could use some more amps from the variable output. I THINK I can re-work the wiring someday but I think I should probably just snag a good pre-owned unit, maybe an old HP? Any suggestions on model?
Why would it be good to fuse both the live and neutral? Surely it costs more and if the neutral blows it's just going to leave a live circuit?
Power Supply review without Ripple Voltage measuring?!
Meh, it'll meet the spec.
@@EEVblog That's not scientific, Daiyve.
A dynamic test would also be nice, basically that's the benchmark for any laboratory power supply imo.
Could someone discharge a battery cell with this device ?
Is there the capability of a negative current ?
Thanks !
What is with the unconnected fpc connector on the front panel board? It looks like the biggest one on there and its unconnected? I thought this was the top of the range.
A 32bit system with its own operation system in 4GB emmc with wireless communication touch screen plus nice look having many other special features.Its main job and its name is called as a power supply.
@27:22 try pushing the knob to see it it jumps digits.
5:19 “Notice all the big cable ties”
Doesn’t mention the ferrite core chokes.
9:45 Those must be the front ends for analog control inputs. There's two more shunts behind the mains ferrite bead, so maybe 2 per each of 4 channels? I doubt these are just power rails because they lack inductors to be switch-mode and thermal design features to be linear regs. Also what would those sophisticated shunts be for? Also, that huge switch-mode thing on the right seems to be generating 4 isolated bipolar rails for all the opamps in each PSU channel.
colors seem perfectly fine here
Where's that 327 circuit again, need to whip up some more boards.
Can you review whatever R&S software makes use of the LAN connection?
Don't know if you saw that but CH1/2 are 0-20A and 3/4 are 0-10A...
6:53 Maybe they dual fuse so it can be powered by utilities where both sides are hot, like some higher voltage services are in the 'States?
The US has been 120/240 since 1984 but you're probably right about the fuses.
@@StimulatingPresence I thought the 120/240 standard is older than 1984, but I have to admit I haven't really looked at the wiring in old buildings...
@@NiHaoMike64 It is older, 84 is when the NEC officially adopted it and changed all their formulas to it.
If you did want say, 20V at 20A, could you set Channel 1 and 2 to 10V @ 20A and hook them in series? To have the voltage stack?
You talk about electronics like a poet describes a beautiful woman.
Haha true
LOL very true. I was out on a drive and got the YT notification on this vid and immediately drove back home to watch it. Dave's videos on this stuff are just the best.
So that means I'm a nerd?
I prefer the term “geek” 😀
Damn, this is one fine piece of equipment, beautiful.
It's almost enough power to cause a Resonance Cascade.
get your eyes checked the colours were in the right order - dynamite PS - clean ur draws
having HMP4040 in the lab, the UI of the NGP800 really looks a lot better. Will have to make do with what I have, I guess.
Hi Dave, would you put a LED across an output in CC mode at a high voltage and turn off and on the channel please? Or use any low current load and measure the output voltage with a scope in CC mode.
Because the other Rohde & Schwarz power supplies on your bench have a horrible slow current control.
Looks quite nice, I suppose it's just lab-grade so hence the extreme complexity and high price.
Would've liked to have seen independent modules for each channel, cheaper and easier to repair and/or enables upgrading.
This is nice gear. I would like to see a computer powered by this power supply and see how much power each connector uses. Can this power supply show combined power usage for several channels? What about over power protection for e.g. channel 1 and 2 added together?
I'm a little disappointed that this power supply seems to lack parallel/serial modes for the channels. It would be nice if you can configure channels 1/2 or channels 3/4 to work in series/parallel using built-in relays.
Hi Dave, another bobby dazzler of a video! Have you considered an endoscope style camera might help you?
"QUICK! Dave needs our latest and greatest!"
I thought pressing the knob to change the column was standard practice?
The Neutral should never be fused it's typically bonded to Earth at the breaker panel.
It's probably fused for the times when some idiot, licensed electrician installs an outlet or something with the wiring backward (which I've seen too many times). With a fuse on both wires it would still be protected when the hot and neutral are reversed.
Remember, a license doesn't mean a person is competent, it just means they paid for their tax stamp.
Where did you get that red clamp/banana plug brace for the BK precision? Thanks!
Its definitely orange on screen, but red on the device
Hey @EEVblog Dave, where did you get the red screw-terminal to Banana plug adapter for the BK Precision DC load? Do please let me know, thanks!
Custom made for me by a viewer
Oh PPS. I'm also gonna be adding a 80000uF Super cap to ease the PSU burden from the inverter's startup current spike.