This is a really cool idea but three problems come to mind. 1) It seems like you are going to generate A LOT of eddy currents causing lots of heating. 2) I am not sure that there are permanent magnets around that won't gradually degauss under so much alternating magnetism. 3) The system is in an unstable equilibrium for radial forces. If the steel ring or the center gets a little bit to one side, it is going to start preferentially pulling in the direction creating torque on the shaft that is going to increase the friction in the shaft bearings or twist the shaft out of alignment.
Use of ceramic insulators and the integration of a heat exchanger system where the heat generation could be put to use elsewhere. Maybe. An interesting aspect would be if this could be used in reverse, to exchange the torque of a perimeter driven motor for rpm at the inner diameter of the motor... ie; the characteristics of perimeter driven motors such as those used in some marine applications to transfer their more efficient propeller design (outer edge forms the motor hub and no central ‘hub’ is required for rotational drive)
You can use a paired arrangement working as a conical bearing, or you can make the same thing but in a radial arrangement, if the application includes strong radial forces.
Have they (or you, if this is your invention) considered using the magnets in a Halbach array to minimize wasted magnetic field on the outside of this array? Theoretically, this should make the system work even better.
man.. eddy current effects, remagnetisation losses, thermal management of the losses etc.. guys please- magnomatics just had the perfect moment of feeling they have discovered something important.. and you've just ruined it :P
But how do you choose the gear ratio? Is it determined by the ratio of the total number of steel slabs inserted in the middle ring and magnetic poles in the outer structure?
Hello, Nice work. What is the maximum torque you think you can produce out of a magnetic gear? What would be the weight of that magnetic gear? Regards, Sam
I can see lots of negative comments below here but I can assure those people that this works and is in production. I should know, they are one of our customers.
Acredito plenamente que este será o processo aplicado, não só nos transportes do futuro, mas também como gerador de grande energia elétrica. Com a grande vantagem de não existir desgaste entre as peças que se movimentam através do campo magnético gerado entre elas. Aposto no seu desenvolvimento.
very good points friend but remember gears work on a pressure angle of like 22deg this computes to massive power loss also gears are actually cams that slide just a bit causing friction, believe it or not the eddy currents would be minimal with lamination techniques at low rpm. this is after all a concept vid they would add more details during D&R like cooling finns or fan blades for cooling but again you make some dam good points gears aint what you think i was amazed wen i read a book on it
i don't fuly anderstand, how can you change the output speed? are you using electricity, to alter the magnets to the speed and force you want to extract?
An interesting idea. I wonder if they could use similar approach to recreate simple dual input planetary gearbox with motor(s). Imagine how would it be - planetary gearbox which also is an electic motor with two independent rotors, affecting output shaft.
Can this be used to go from high rpm to lower rpm with a higher torque output like lets say an aircraft engine. vibration of changing engine rpms would be way reduced and if possible no more sprag clutches would be needed for 2 engine powered aircraft like the Chinook.
They seem to have given up on the ideas to use it as a gearing system though, and focused more on its ability to function as a sort of mechanical "battery" instead. Perhaps they should update this vid a bit. ;)
Nobody is talking about the problem of pushing something, the magnet is only so strong, at some point the magnet can not move forward with any amount of propulsion given.
+FOAD RIGHTNOW The alternating magnetic field creates eddy currents in the steel, and the fact that they're using only permanent magnets means the axis of rotation would be unstable unless every single part was machined and assembled perfectly. Melting steel and huge vibrations must have rendered this device useless.
TheSmileyFacedPizza Good point. So essentially you're saying it would act like an induction coil, correct? But surely they would have foreseen that, wouldn't you think?
TheSmileyFacedPizza So true. The video sure looked polished and professional enough to suggest that the makers of it knew what they're talking about, though.
FOAD RIGHTNOW Well, it's not exactly hard to make CAD models and have smooth, confident commentary over it. I could make a CAD model of a typical room heater and explain how sending an electrical current through the oil causes it to lower in temperature, cooling down the room, which creates a heat vacuum to draw in warmer air from elsewhere. But that's obviously not what would happen.
I'm MISSING SOMETHING , how does this magnetic gear ratio changer give a constant torque , ratio , or use, if only magnets and a steel section separated by air , are used , are you turning a very small display ?
i feel as tho this would work much better as a clutch in sorts. but at a certain % of engagement. similar to torque converters in cars. i dont understand how this could could hand any realistic amount of torque for machinery or vehicles
you say "no friction". you are planning to fix shafts with magnetic field. how much energy is required to hold shafts tight? you know that magnets does not stay magnetized forever. you have to pass current. also too high magnetic force, to hold shafts tight, can affect other parts of the total machine. how do you plan to prevent that?
12 years later, this has not been manufactured and is still not available for any practical use. Maybe because the magnets, even though they spin slower, don't add any torque before slipping.
+kf160k160 They aren't difficult to think about really: 1. 'It has no wearing parts, and therefore does not require oil lubrication'. False. The mere fact that it has an input and output shaft suspended away from a casing means that you have two points of wear and lubrication requirement: the input and output shaft ball bearings. 2. 'No friction". There may be no friction between the actual ratio reducing element, but, again, the bearings at each end create friction. This may well be a good idea, but this video makes it sound much better than it is.
wait if the magnets spinning induce current in the steel bars, which further produce eddy currents. wouldn't this be a counter for and electric motor working with this as a variable transmission. i mean high torque is at 0 RPMs not 10000
sounds good but as per the presentation the speed reduction ratio is fixed and cannot change. If only it could switch ratios the it could have been used in electric cars :)
@@paulsutton5896 I hear, with eBikes, hub motors, where there's no gearing, tend to burn out more often than mid-mount motors, where they can benefit from the bike's gearing. Hub motors _can_ do it without gears, but should they? Driving uphill is sometimes unavoidable.
@@rmarbertin8131 Well. There are, no doubt, many bright people constructing vehicles with all sorts of ways of overcoming the inherent "gearing" problems. The big problem for evs remains the battery, of course. But why not gears, with magnetic clutches? it will be interesting to see what designs present themselves.
@@paulsutton5896 sure, but on the other hand, Planned Obsolescence is a thing. It is incumbent upon us to be smart shoppers, and not buy a car from the company that will have you burn your motor out for not living in flatland.
Bullshit on the "no wearing parts" part. Magnetic components involved start to get misaligned in their fields. Causing a magnetic form of decay in capability! More efficient, Yes. Yet not forever let alone longer lasting then a well adjusted set of high heat tolerant/stress gears.
If you want to get the plans to convert your car to HHO Go to Google and Search for: *"Top HHO Gas Car Research"* Click the First Result (Skip the Advertisement)
Actually, it's two basic DC motors stuck inside one another. One minor issue is that if a magnetic field gets too close, it might a cause a skip, stutter, or drop in speed in another wise stable system.
![BRASIL vs. PERÚ [4-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tbyOJKXfQnI/mqdefault.jpg)
This is a really cool idea but three problems come to mind.
1) It seems like you are going to generate A LOT of eddy currents causing lots of heating.
2) I am not sure that there are permanent magnets around that won't gradually degauss under so much alternating magnetism.
3) The system is in an unstable equilibrium for radial forces. If the steel ring or the center gets a little bit to one side, it is going to start preferentially pulling in the direction creating torque on the shaft that is going to increase the friction in the shaft bearings or twist the shaft out of alignment.
Well u can wrap it ina vacuum for no heat
@@ununius7436the heat source wouldn't go away, the cooling would.
Use of ceramic insulators and the integration of a heat exchanger system where the heat generation could be put to use elsewhere. Maybe. An interesting aspect would be if this could be used in reverse, to exchange the torque of a perimeter driven motor for rpm at the inner diameter of the motor... ie; the characteristics of perimeter driven motors such as those used in some marine applications to transfer their more efficient propeller design (outer edge forms the motor hub and no central ‘hub’ is required for rotational drive)
You can use a paired arrangement working as a conical bearing, or you can make the same thing but in a radial arrangement, if the application includes strong radial forces.
Jct: Wow, no friction! Brilliant new engineering! Hope they make lots of money with this one. They deserve it.
2019 were are we at.
but whats the magnetic coupling/total system efficiency?
What is your tactic for displacing heat? I'm sure phenomenal amounts are generated.
no friction=no heat
@@H3c171 but there is induction
@@umuraydin4337 oil cooling？
@@H3c171 what about air friction? or current induced heat?
Have they (or you, if this is your invention) considered using the magnets in a Halbach array to minimize wasted magnetic field on the outside of this array? Theoretically, this should make the system work even better.
Looks good on video. Now need a prototype!
man.. eddy current effects, remagnetisation losses, thermal management of the losses etc.. guys please- magnomatics just had the perfect moment of feeling they have discovered something important.. and you've just ruined it :P
But how do you choose the gear ratio? Is it determined by the ratio of the total number of steel slabs inserted in the middle ring and magnetic poles in the outer structure?
Hello, Nice work. What is the maximum torque you think you can produce out of a magnetic gear? What would be the weight of that magnetic gear? Regards, Sam
Probably something like; (magnetic force) x (leverage) - (bearing friction)
I can see lots of negative comments below here but I can assure those people that this works and is in production. I should know, they are one of our customers.
How's that going buddy
Acredito plenamente que este será o processo aplicado, não só nos transportes do futuro, mas também como gerador de grande energia elétrica. Com a grande vantagem de não existir desgaste entre as peças que se movimentam através do campo magnético gerado entre elas. Aposto no seu desenvolvimento.
Excellent concept - has enormous implications. It would help to address the life expectancy.
very good points friend but remember gears work on a pressure angle of like 22deg this computes to massive power loss also gears are actually cams that slide just a bit causing friction, believe it or not the eddy currents would be minimal with lamination techniques at low rpm. this is after all a concept vid they would add more details during D&R like cooling finns or fan blades for cooling but again you make some dam good points gears aint what you think i was amazed wen i read a book on it
i don't fuly anderstand, how can you change the output speed? are you using electricity, to alter the magnets to the speed and force you want to extract?
2020 and we still use steel spheres
Spheres? Or cylinders?
2022 and we still prefer economical and viable solutions. 😉
i just dont understand why you would use a gearbox instead of a changing input field such as n brushless motors..
Are they being manufactured, or on the market yet? What future plans for the magnet s are you trying to achieve?
So 12 years later, what ever happened to this motor? Anyone know?
An interesting idea. I wonder if they could use similar approach to recreate simple dual input planetary gearbox with motor(s). Imagine how would it be - planetary gearbox which also is an electic motor with two independent rotors, affecting output shaft.
Can this be used to go from high rpm to lower rpm with a higher torque output like lets say an aircraft engine. vibration of changing engine rpms would be way reduced and if possible no more sprag clutches would be needed for 2 engine powered aircraft like the Chinook.
Can I see a prototype please?
Animations can do any you want.
They seem to have given up on the ideas to use it as a gearing system though, and focused more on its ability to function as a sort of mechanical "battery" instead. Perhaps they should update this vid a bit. ;)
see the video: Hybrid From 1916: The Owen Magnetic - Jay Leno's Garage
Just like the Owen Magnetic car from 1916
Nobody is talking about the problem of pushing something, the magnet is only so strong, at some point the magnet can not move forward with any amount of propulsion given.
It's been over four years since this was posted. Surely there must be examples of its use today. What and where are they?
+FOAD RIGHTNOW The alternating magnetic field creates eddy currents in the steel, and the fact that they're using only permanent magnets means the axis of rotation would be unstable unless every single part was machined and assembled perfectly. Melting steel and huge vibrations must have rendered this device useless.
TheSmileyFacedPizza
Good point. So essentially you're saying it would act like an induction coil, correct? But surely they would have foreseen that, wouldn't you think?
FOAD RIGHTNOW Not everyone that tries inventing is smart.
TheSmileyFacedPizza
So true. The video sure looked polished and professional enough to suggest that the makers of it knew what they're talking about, though.
FOAD RIGHTNOW Well, it's not exactly hard to make CAD models and have smooth, confident commentary over it. I could make a CAD model of a typical room heater and explain how sending an electrical current through the oil causes it to lower in temperature, cooling down the room, which creates a heat vacuum to draw in warmer air from elsewhere. But that's obviously not what would happen.
and if you apply some torque?
I'm MISSING SOMETHING , how does this magnetic gear ratio changer give a constant torque , ratio , or use, if only magnets and a steel section separated by air , are used , are you turning a very small display ?
i feel as tho this would work much better as a clutch in sorts. but at a certain % of engagement. similar to torque converters in cars. i dont understand how this could could hand any realistic amount of torque for machinery or vehicles
you say "no friction". you are planning to fix shafts with magnetic field. how much energy is required to hold shafts tight? you know that magnets does not stay magnetized forever. you have to pass current. also too high magnetic force, to hold shafts tight, can affect other parts of the total machine. how do you plan to prevent that?
12 years later, this has not been manufactured and is still not available for any practical use. Maybe because the magnets, even though they spin slower, don't add any torque before slipping.
14 years later...
How does it work when standing up just as good?
I can see that steel melting due to induction...
I agreed. And wtf with the coil outta the magnet that didnt move? The magnet will melt too -..-'
JDEZ512 it actually cools itself
Has this been manufactured? Where are the applications? I want one!
How is this technology resistant to shocks and vibration?
Sounds promising but I like to know its disadvantages too.
+kf160k160 They aren't difficult to think about really:
1. 'It has no wearing parts, and therefore does not require oil lubrication'. False. The mere fact that it has an input and output shaft suspended away from a casing means that you have two points of wear and lubrication requirement: the input and output shaft ball bearings.
2. 'No friction". There may be no friction between the actual ratio reducing element, but, again, the bearings at each end create friction. This may well be a good idea, but this video makes it sound much better than it is.
What about magnetic bearings at the ends?
These will also need to be replaced due to loss of magnetism. I'm not sure how long that would take, but materials do lose their magnetism over time.
Xander Zoolander it's a very very very very long time lol
magnets will demagnetize
What sort of bearings does it use for the input and output shafts?
Why not magnetic bearings?
might generate heat in these bars ,and excessive heat might ruin the magnets,what about slippage?in gears there is no slippage
Cool story bro. Still no real world example?
wait if the magnets spinning induce current in the steel bars, which further produce eddy currents. wouldn't this be a counter for and electric motor working with this as a variable transmission. i mean high torque is at 0 RPMs not 10000
Possible this is similar to Coral Gables technology?
You did it
perfect now how do a talk to you about makin a few for the turntables i,m making please ...Superb work !!!
really? i got a few extra rubles, ... how much for 500 hp 1000 ft/psd ???
wait wait, he said that between components there is air so there is physical contact
and just how will it stay cool?
i think i missed that....
No friction losses in the gears.
@@borismohar5707 generating magnetic fields require power and anytime power is involved, heat is too.
Is this running on a 24v system?
~ hypnotic voice oO ~ wuwu
Un reductor in butuc , cu rulmenti conici cu bile , ar produce foarte putine vibratii in comparatie cu magnetii prezentati la min 2:51
iun 2015
sounds good but as per the presentation the speed reduction ratio is fixed and cannot change. If only it could switch ratios the it could have been used in electric cars :)
we do slipping for that! they can now even be programmed
The thing about electric cars is that they don't NEED gears.
@@paulsutton5896 I hear, with eBikes, hub motors, where there's no gearing, tend to burn out more often than mid-mount motors, where they can benefit from the bike's gearing. Hub motors _can_ do it without gears, but should they? Driving uphill is sometimes unavoidable.
@@rmarbertin8131 Well. There are, no doubt, many bright people constructing vehicles with all sorts of ways of overcoming the inherent "gearing" problems. The big problem for evs remains the battery, of course. But why not gears, with magnetic clutches? it will be interesting to see what designs present themselves.
@@paulsutton5896 sure, but on the other hand, Planned Obsolescence is a thing. It is incumbent upon us to be smart shoppers, and not buy a car from the company that will have you burn your motor out for not living in flatland.
How much for two?
Air gear HERE WE COME!
dude this is soo cooool
Brilliant inventive step - well done guys!
What about all the eddy currents / power losses inside of this thing, vid fails to mention this.
$100 jillion dollars! MUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
it will bearn babyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Oh god, why the hell am I watching it?
if you would live in a world not governed by physics laws it would work fine....
Laws are man made.
@@jvon3885 those laws have surpassed age of humanity itself.
High efficiency? Prove it...
Interesting.
put it on a car axle
if you help me we can change the world for better place
high speed electric motor can be low tech to wind turbine and magnetic's no need for wind ;p
Bullshit on the "no wearing parts" part. Magnetic components involved start to get misaligned in their fields. Causing a magnetic form of decay in capability!
More efficient, Yes.
Yet not forever let alone longer lasting then a well adjusted set of high heat tolerant/stress gears.
If you want to get the plans
to convert your car to HHO
Go to Google and Search for:
*"Top HHO Gas Car Research"*
Click the First Result (Skip the Advertisement)
After which a fool and his money will part ways? ;)
I'm pretty sure that this is part of Tesla's Tower shaft
Und das soll gehen....???? Baut eins und ich kaufe es dann ab....
Kami Kaze So was gibts nicht...nur animation.
8 7/12 year
8 35/52
think magnetic core
posted over a year ago and still cant buy one, * HUMMMMMMM wonder why that is ,
They blew all their money on the presentation film, whereas they couldn't afford to make the prototype? ;)
Me gustaria...esperimentar
wheel in a wheel in a wheel .. were have i heard this before? the old bible? torah?
This is a basic dc motor.
Actually, it's two basic DC motors stuck inside one another. One minor issue is that if a magnetic field gets too close, it might a cause a skip, stutter, or drop in speed in another wise stable system.
Not my it
use non magnetic items and casing lol
lawwwl show me a prototype in action psh