I refer to them as the "pringles-stack". First heard them 2 years ago at a Alexander Knappe Konzert in Berlin. I was blown away and had a chance to hear it up close as i was the hired photographer for this gig.
I think another reason it has staying power is simply, how much it sounds like a clap sample. Like, for me, when I see it on video, there's still this weird disconnect. Like, if I had no video. I would honestly maybe have guessed that a sample pad or something was used. Like, it sounds freakin' identical, which is like super wild.
ppl do that when they are excited to share something and cant contain their emotions @@jjmarcos i like it tbh, like it sets off a bright colourful tone to the readers, no need to police
Acoustic obsolete: as long as real humans live and breath on this earth, at least to my taste more clear with robot resistance now than ever, there's nothing like real drums and metal cymbals. I'd only ever go as far with digital to have a small palate of other sounds that would take a big truck to haul all of the other instruments, in the midst of a fully functional prog jazz rock kit.
Djent / math metal drummers have been UNIVERSALLY using stacked cymbals for good 2 decades, because they needed staccato cymbal accents for polymetric rhythms.
Listening to this video at work and I got super inspired on how to incorporate the stack into a rhythmic idea I've been messing with for a while? Totally awesome! Realizing I have to wait 9 hours until I'm with my drums to try it? Not awesome. Good stuff as always Nate!
Good to see Jharis Yokley clips, he's an amazing drummer and his YT channel is great. He comes across as a lovely bloke and it's always refreshing when an absolute beast shows themselves struggling with an exercise or pattern
Thanks, I've always wondered what it was called. I saw Herbie Hancock in concert the other week and his drummer, Jaylen Petinaud, played the stack extensively.
My stack is a few cymbal bells cut out of cracked cymbals. Theyre different sizes nested together mounted on a Gajate foot pedal bracket and I play w my left foot. Much smarter way to do it because it frees up your hands. Pluse you can mess with where you place the clap , like on the beat or behind to get that authentic placement.
It has completely changed how we play drums… for now. I think we will eventually reach “peak stack” and then it will fizzle out. It won’t die but I think it’ll become more niche for sure. Like how Eddie Van Halen revolutionized guitar playing for whole musical era with tapping and completely changed the evolution of the instrument. Then in the 90s, it became passé
I'm watching this from more of a general musician's perspective (drums are my least accomplished instrument) and what I'm seeing and hearing with these stacks is a hybrid of latin percussion (like you did the obvious clave in your example) with an understated, laid back hip hop vibe. Reminds me of 90's ?uestlove bringing a chill beat to a jazzy rap. because you're creating space for the vocals or the horn solo or whatever. Is this the only way to accomplish this? No, but the concept is comfortable to the modern American drummer to have a muted cymbal stack that takes some of the finesse of the perfect rim shot flam at low volume away and makes that more accessible. And yeah you get the snare + clap result that kinda lingers on the brain until you get to the next bar. Its always there, its easy to play, you can make one yourself from some beat up cymbals.
Im glad to see this video. I saw a video likening this new craze to when drummers were using those wooden things on their snare and cymbals. Which I still see but definitely has fallen from popularity. But the guy kind of wrote the stack off as a fad. A big difference here is youre likely to use something more or longer that you paid 200-400 dollars for than a doo-dad you bought for 20 bucks This is more on the lines of the china addition which is definitely more of a metal thing but is still going strong. I actuallly think these stacks scratch the itch of a china without sustain. I could see metal drummers using this like that. Some of the beats I hear with the stack resemble like a metal breakdown but in a jazz and funk setting
Fantastic video per usual. I’ve been waiting to see a Chris Dave video here for awhile, but not from the drunken/broken beats angle, but his use of textures. I know Rick Rubin quoted that he was the best drummer he has ever heard, which is a huge statement from a producer of that scope, and I couldn’t agree more. Dave’s use of single strokes on the cowbell going into backbeats, his use of buzz rolls on bongo drums between hits, and his use of unconventional cymbals need to be studied, never seen anyone do that until him.
in 2003 my band supported French Toast, which had members of Fugazi in. James Canty and Jerry Busher. I used their kit, and one of the cymbals was a stack of damaged cymbals several layers deep and with the bottom ones corroded with age. I'd never seen it done before, but it made sense and sounded good.
No not revolutionary, but this doesn't mean i don't enjoy the content and your modern history and transcriptions. Interesting points, but the drum set itself was invented out of economics lets pay one guy for doing many guys jobs, also not sure if you remember the early sets had a bunch of weird stuff on them from all kinds of percussionist kits on them. Also, over the years last 50 of mine I have had a lot of weird do-dads sound makers on my kit and made all kinds of off kilter grooves using them for tunes i write or just for fun on copy tunes, as I'm sure many others have as well. As technology evolved so has all the additions. Look at Bruford ride Octobon type of toms instead of having a hi-hat or ride cymbal in the 90s etc. Either way i still like the trouble you have gone to for all this stuff etc. Interesting points and nice modern examples. I don't play much of any of this type of stuff and probably never will but it doesn't mean i don't respect it and enjoy your input. So thanks for all of this detail and input! All the stuff is valid and can seep into all over our playing one or the other ;)
? Gadgets on kits have never really changed the manner of how we play, apart from the clap stack! Which is what nate is getting at. And it's definitely revolutionary in addition to different approach to beats.
@@19tet Pretty soon you will be add all this prepared snare drum/tom stuff where you put another object on the drum to get new sounds. Lots of that happening these days too. They used to call this prepared piano no Pianos a long time ago, but now drummers are having fun too.
I think the innovation is actually the drive to bring electronic sounds back into the acoustic realm on the kit. Clap stacks and other stacks, as well as other drum adornments are mostly trying to pull in sounds from hip hop, techno and dnb. The clap stack is just the one that has sort of proliferated the most (and looks the most striking)
Electronic music rediscovered the primal "clap" as a rhythm instrument for use alongside any other trap kit instrument, which then inspired the commercial reproduction of a one-handed acoustic clap sound with more volume and cut. But the acoustic idea and use long predates the first commercial product.
Stacks has been a thing since late 90’s early 200’s where I’m from.. we love stacks in West TN .. especially when they cracked👌🏾 the different sounds u get
If it was one of your heroes it wouldn't be an ambiguous talk about the origin it would be a direct praise of your "hero" drummer. We need to start being honest about this and the actually reasons behind the manufacturing of the history of its inception.
@@sofab1974 Trevor I meant no offense. I was trying to tread lightly because of the sponsor issue but I should have included a mention of your name. It’s only due to my being sketchy on the details of the origin story and wanting the focus to be on how drummers have adapted the invention rather than the invention, and not out of any desire to exclude your name, that I made the oversight. I should mention I’m flattered that you discovered my little channel. If you’d ever want to tell the story in an interview I’d be honored to have you on my podcast. I wouldn’t presume you have the time or inclination though. Either way, didn’t mean to offend.
I would be curious as to how you approached them... " Here's what I'm looking for, is this possible?" They must have sent prototypes ? It's all interesting to me. And thank you...
I think the stack only imitates the tonality of the clap sounds. IMO the reason the clap was so popular is that it had a wide stereo field with multiple delays eg like a crowd clapping. Except for the later sample at the end where the rim shot and stack were played at the same time, I don't think it really accomplishes the effect. Though the multiple cymbals reverberating off each other may have a somewhat of a single channel multi-hit which would be useful for recording.
I have yet to play one of those stacks…. But I think stacks overall have changed the way the world plays drum kits. Like auxiliary hats have been a thing, but it seems like it’s only been since around the early 2000’s that people started stacking cymbals that weren’t intended to be stacked. And from that came companies making cymbals designed to be stacked such as those. Another super popular combo is some kind of China paired with a trash crash. I totally dig the whole idea as it allows for making good use of cracked cymbals, plus it’s fun to have a weird acoustic sound to play around with.
I feel like i have a phd in stack now. I think when something gets adopted like stacks have it is like introducing something into the evolutionary history of drums like a mutation does in nature. Humans are going to explore the shit out of it too, it might evolve out but for now its dominating the drum set.
It wasn't a stack. It was a Zilco cymbal he found in the trash. Someone bent it 90˚, presumably so it would fit in the trash can. Sad thing is, after it finally fell apart, he sent Paiste a copy of Red and asked them if they could make a cymbal that sounded like it, and they ignored him.
@@jc3drums916 I know it wasn't a stack, hence my naming it "paleo". There's a similarity on the sound too, which is another reason for my mention of it. It's really cool that people are making these now. I recognize that I didn't mention it not being a stack either, sorry for the misunderstanding caused by my halfassed sentence (also pardon me for any grammar mistakes).
Interesting… Would love a vid on the history of them. Who invented them? How are they made, why do they look melted? Earliest use? Who popularized them and when? How did their use evolve, and by who? What's the timeline?
I believe the first commercial release of one of these was the Istanbul Agop Clap Stack, designed with Trevor Lawrence Jr. I remember Zildjian took a fair bit of slack (smack?) when they came out with their own ‘Trap stack’, without crediting the original at all, but since then it seems that most cymbal companies are producing their own versions.
The irony! A ‘natural’ thing designed to mimic the sound of a drum machine! Anyway, about 20 years ago I acquired an Engelhart Ribbon Crasher. It does something similar. Not identical though; if the sound you’re after is that old drum machine sound, this ‘smack stack’ is the better option.
I'd argue that stacks are really not that innovative, but add a texture that has been integrated into acoustic drum players. Hi-hats were actually a mechanical device and was a new instrument all by itself and was definitely innovative. Interestingly enough, I believe it is actual drum machines that caused new playing styles for acoustic drumming in the modern context. For example, the hi-hat pattern in the techno funk song "You're In My System" by the illustrious 80's/90's techno funk duo Mic Murphy and David Frank of The System. That pattern made me think and play in ways I never thought about. Or The Time's "777-9311" hi-hat, originally programmed on a drum machine by Prince himself legend has it. Drum machines altered acoustic drumming forcing drummers to innovate replicating those rhythms. Drum machines just simply didn't add a texture like stacks have, they altered the trajectory of popular music drumming causing the creation of a whole new style of acoustic drumming. Be well this day. E
Who gets credit for the first stacked cymbal? Not upside down splashes over ride bell, not secondary hats, like a proper stack. I know I was messing with them in the early and mid 2000's but I have no idea where I got the idea from, probably some gospel chops video. It'd be nice to give credit where it's due.
I wonder if the nature of the drum kit, i.e., a collection of instruments that's a pain to transport and setup, ultimately confines us to always return to a basic setup? I've tried adding various cymbals, drums, percussion, electronics etc. over the years but I always end up getting annoyed with having to carry an extra drum or cymbal stand. In the end it always comes down to a pragmatism for me, what do I need and what can I do without.
Stacks can give more textures to what you're playing but I don't think they're really revolutionary because they don't ultimately affect the rhythm you're playing and that's the whole point of percussion
I was stacking cymbals back in early 2000’s after seeing Billy Ward do it at the MD Festival. Plus before the stack setup the clap sound was being done with electronic equipment. Nothing new at all.
you know, doesnt the backbeat kinda come from black spirituals/gospel music? like so the stack claps are kinda going full circle, by using it as a back beat application?
sure. I mean, black spirituals underlie a LOT of american music, from jazz to blues to rock to hip hop. So you could argue that "clap" is pretty fundamental to the way we play drums writ large.
Stacks are not new. I remember seeing them in the 80s. First time I saw one, it was a splash on a crash. Today's stack is a phase. 10 years it will be the "stack years".
I don't think so. It allows a drummer to clap with one hand and no change in technique. Clap sounds are pretty universal and primal. Unlike the cowbell.
It's just another tool in the arsenal that is a drumset. The tool is not innovation in itself, the drummer then innovates or is inspired to do so. I would argue that the real "evolution" is due to the cross-pollination between electronic, digital mediums and the acoustic and analog means. Personnaly the more i learn about drums and music the more I realize that in terms of technical applications its all been done before , imagination and our desire to communicate with music is the only true creative freedom and currency we have.
@@8020drummer tbh I didn't watch much of the video, so I didn't stick around for the final argument /thesis, I'm not surprised we reached a similar conclusions though. You have dedicated years to the craft and even create content that celebrates and encourages the human( creative and others) aspect in drumming in all its imperfections and constant revisions. I would've been a bit shocked if you would've just jumped into the bandwagon of "this new fad/tool/lick changes everything" , with all the first hand experience you have about drumming and it's community. I meant no disrespect, appreciate the content and philosophy.
Not even a single mention of the pioneer drummer and manufacturer that invented the damn thing. I usually love Nate’s videos, Especially the interviews so the fact that there’s no interview or at least honorable/morally respectful mention is absolutely disheartening.
Dudes it was not invented in 2018. It was commercialized in 2018. Who invented the hi hat? Why don't we give homage to that person amidst all the copycats and pretenders?
:34 Honestly, I thinks it's most of the time you're playing. I'm not even saying it's wrong, I just don't like the sound. "Bouncing" may not be the best way to describe what I'm talking about, but heel up on a higher tuned kick often sounds distracting/not great to me (because of the beater spending a little time on the resonating head). I'm not a heel down purest or anything- burying the beater into a floppy low rock kick often sounds pretty good to me
@@sawdustcrypto3987 I think you’re wrong. I’m not planting the head in the beater even a little. What you’re hearing might just be an artifact of the head or the beater, or the mic. I worked very hard to eliminate vibration and extra bounces. After your comment this is a little obsessive but I reviewed all the footage in the video to make sure I wasn’t wrong.
Smack sounds been around forever. I love meinl cymbals, but I never got a stack. In fact I may the only one who doesn’t care for it. Any one else not mesmerized the meinl stack?
I mean, if you could make a primal clap sound with one hand without having to learn a special and difficult technique while keeping the other hand free to make a bunch of other sounds, wouldn't you? Or would you tell the band to hire a professional clapper?
I see a lot of people flocking to these novelty items. It's been happening for years. These stacks probably won't become ubiquitous in an enduring way, universally. Your average Foo Fighters, or even older rock guys in their 60, might not have any interest. But, for the more conformist crowd, it might. It feels like these guys all want to sound exactly the same and play the same types of styles, grooves, etc, etc. So, in that community, I could see a scenario where, yes, it COULD become a mainstay, but I seriously doubt it. The popular drummers will move on to something else, start like suspending drums from a ceiling, or using an actual toilet for a throne. If all the cool kids who play tappy-fast say it's cool, the next trend will be born.
Drum machines get invented and the CB pinnacle of drum machines hits when they can use real sampled drum sounds ,.. real drum kits evolve to where they can sound like old crappy drum machines haha
.im so confused why you don't call these what they are called everywhere else. a clap stack. if you go online and look to buy one. they are always called a clap stack. ive literally never heard them called anything else until this video. just annoys me because new drummers are gonna look for these things and not beable to find them and just be misled a little in general. Then you start just using the word stack. as if this is the only stack out there. which also seems a little deceiving for a new drummer. since the possibilities with stacks are endless. and this is just one kind of stack. no big deal im just confused as to why, is there some reason you didn't call it a clap stack? If i missed something in the video that explains why then i apologize,
OK i see where meinl calls them a smack stack instead of a clap stack. they are literally the only company that does though. ofcourse thats the brand of cymbals your playing, so i kinda understand now,
Sounds pretty aggressive sorry you feel so threatened by an old man. Just an old man's perspective on history. I'm happy for you young guys that get to work on new things, mainly don't think new surfaces are life changing. Just like I don't think prince or Michael Jackson are geniuses. Another perspective to ponder.. I'm good with change go for it... fun to learn new things for sure
You can make ambiguous videos all you want and try to minimize the Innovation of THE CLAP STACK which was the originator of this cymbal. Your company Meinl copied it and that's fine so have many others. But stop trying to rationalize and minimize the original invention. A Black Man came up with this idea and you can't seem to admit or be historically accurate. Clap sounds have been around for years. the decision to adopt this sound For drum set was not done until the Original Clap Stack came out in 2018. STOP TRYING TO REWRITE HISTORY.
@@DastardlyInfallible maybe I’m wrong? I just remember seeing Zildjian promote their version and getting absolutely roasted for it haha. It felt like it was fairly recent but I’m not positive either
Yeah! Don't get me started on all those pretenders and copycats who shamelessly stole the idea of the hi hat! We all owe Barney Walberg and Papa Jo Jones apologies.
A clap sound playable one handed and without any significant change in technique is more than a fad. Its been around since the 80s at least, despite its more recent commercialization.
Yeah a stack of alloy that cost an arm and a leg. Dumbest thing ever created in my opinion. How the hell can they justify the cost of this junk that doesn’t even ring or has any tonality whatsoever. Stupidest cymbal ever made in my opinion. Shouldn’t cost more than $50 honestly. It’s not made any special way at all. I been to the manufacturer and I’ve seen it been made. It’s insane that people are dumb enough to spend the money on one of these garbage pieces of alloy
I prefer the Paiste PST X version. Gives me a lot more versatility. I can arrange it as hats plus flanger crash, or flanger stack plus crash, or any combo. 14" doesn't take up much real estate. Didn't cost much.
the slight difference each time you hit the stack gives a nice production advantage over a digital sample which quickly becomes repetitive
I refer to them as the "pringles-stack". First heard them 2 years ago at a Alexander Knappe Konzert in Berlin. I was blown away and had a chance to hear it up close as i was the hired photographer for this gig.
I'll forever see Pringles now. And I'm cool with that.
I think another reason it has staying power is simply, how much it sounds like a clap sample.
Like, for me, when I see it on video, there's still this weird disconnect. Like, if I had no video. I would honestly maybe have guessed that a sample pad or something was used.
Like, it sounds freakin' identical, which is like super wild.
I think you are spot on. The clap is a very, very primal and universal percussive sound.
good point, but you use 'like' too much. It's a bad habit.
ppl do that when they are excited to share something and cant contain their emotions @@jjmarcos
i like it tbh, like it sets off a bright colourful tone to the readers, no need to police
I like the concept of stacks. Acoustic methods of expanding the audio palate without electronics is one of my mid life obsessions.
Acoustic obsolete: as long as real humans live and breath on this earth, at least to my taste more clear with robot resistance now than ever, there's nothing like real drums and metal cymbals. I'd only ever go as far with digital to have a small palate of other sounds that would take a big truck to haul all of the other instruments, in the midst of a fully functional prog jazz rock kit.
Best shit ever
Djent / math metal drummers have been UNIVERSALLY using stacked cymbals for good 2 decades, because they needed staccato cymbal accents for polymetric rhythms.
And guys like Bozzio and Weckl have been using stacks for twice as long as that.
did they sound like this? dont stacks come in varieties of shapes sizes n produce different sounds?
Listening to this video at work and I got super inspired on how to incorporate the stack into a rhythmic idea I've been messing with for a while? Totally awesome! Realizing I have to wait 9 hours until I'm with my drums to try it? Not awesome. Good stuff as always Nate!
Good to see Jharis Yokley clips, he's an amazing drummer and his YT channel is great. He comes across as a lovely bloke and it's always refreshing when an absolute beast shows themselves struggling with an exercise or pattern
Thanks, I've always wondered what it was called. I saw Herbie Hancock in concert the other week and his drummer, Jaylen Petinaud, played the stack extensively.
@@elsongs cool, and what a privilege.. Would love to see Herb!
My stack is a few cymbal bells cut out of cracked cymbals. Theyre different sizes nested together mounted on a Gajate foot pedal bracket and I play w my left foot. Much smarter way to do it because it frees up your hands. Pluse you can mess with where you place the clap , like on the beat or behind to get that authentic placement.
I really got a lot out of this....THANKS A BUNCH, MAN!
I absolutely agree, I feel like this year especially I've been seeing the clap stack everywhere in funky fresh beats
It has completely changed how we play drums… for now. I think we will eventually reach “peak stack” and then it will fizzle out. It won’t die but I think it’ll become more niche for sure. Like how Eddie Van Halen revolutionized guitar playing for whole musical era with tapping and completely changed the evolution of the instrument. Then in the 90s, it became passé
Tapping is kind of almost a "standard" technique now.
I'm watching this from more of a general musician's perspective (drums are my least accomplished instrument) and what I'm seeing and hearing with these stacks is a hybrid of latin percussion (like you did the obvious clave in your example) with an understated, laid back hip hop vibe. Reminds me of 90's ?uestlove bringing a chill beat to a jazzy rap. because you're creating space for the vocals or the horn solo or whatever. Is this the only way to accomplish this? No, but the concept is comfortable to the modern American drummer to have a muted cymbal stack that takes some of the finesse of the perfect rim shot flam at low volume away and makes that more accessible. And yeah you get the snare + clap result that kinda lingers on the brain until you get to the next bar. Its always there, its easy to play, you can make one yourself from some beat up cymbals.
Nice video Nate I definitely appreciate your knowledge and research you bring to the subject of drumming.
Im glad to see this video. I saw a video likening this new craze to when drummers were using those wooden things on their snare and cymbals. Which I still see but definitely has fallen from popularity. But the guy kind of wrote the stack off as a fad. A big difference here is youre likely to use something more or longer that you paid 200-400 dollars for than a doo-dad you bought for 20 bucks
This is more on the lines of the china addition which is definitely more of a metal thing but is still going strong. I actuallly think these stacks scratch the itch of a china without sustain. I could see metal drummers using this like that.
Some of the beats I hear with the stack resemble like a metal breakdown but in a jazz and funk setting
Fantastic video per usual. I’ve been waiting to see a Chris Dave video here for awhile, but not from the drunken/broken beats angle, but his use of textures. I know Rick Rubin quoted that he was the best drummer he has ever heard, which is a huge statement from a producer of that scope, and I couldn’t agree more.
Dave’s use of single strokes on the cowbell going into backbeats, his use of buzz rolls on bongo drums between hits, and his use of unconventional cymbals need to be studied, never seen anyone do that until him.
Purple is a good color on you. Thanks for all the videos, you've made me a better drummer.
in 2003 my band supported French Toast, which had members of Fugazi in. James Canty and Jerry Busher. I used their kit, and one of the cymbals was a stack of damaged cymbals several layers deep and with the bottom ones corroded with age. I'd never seen it done before, but it made sense and sounded good.
In Dallas they are known as a Sput Stack.
I bought Max Stax right when they came out and promptly sold them when I realized I had no concept lol
Your ideas on the smack are sounding great 💪
No not revolutionary, but this doesn't mean i don't enjoy the content and your modern history and transcriptions. Interesting points, but the drum set itself was invented out of economics lets pay one guy for doing many guys jobs, also not sure if you remember the early sets had a bunch of weird stuff on them from all kinds of percussionist kits on them. Also, over the years last 50 of mine I have had a lot of weird do-dads sound makers on my kit and made all kinds of off kilter grooves using them for tunes i write or just for fun on copy tunes, as I'm sure many others have as well. As technology evolved so has all the additions. Look at Bruford ride Octobon type of toms instead of having a hi-hat or ride cymbal in the 90s etc. Either way i still like the trouble you have gone to for all this stuff etc. Interesting points and nice modern examples. I don't play much of any of this type of stuff and probably never will but it doesn't mean i don't respect it and enjoy your input. So thanks for all of this detail and input! All the stuff is valid and can seep into all over our playing one or the other ;)
? Gadgets on kits have never really changed the manner of how we play, apart from the clap stack! Which is what nate is getting at. And it's definitely revolutionary in addition to different approach to beats.
pringles revolutionised potato chops too ngl
who here has said that @@ascotalexanderbruce
@@19tet Pretty soon you will be add all this prepared snare drum/tom stuff where you put another object on the drum to get new sounds. Lots of that happening these days too. They used to call this prepared piano no Pianos a long time ago, but now drummers are having fun too.
Jojo Mayer and few other were doing this shit ages ago with the Sabian Chopper.
Most iconic "clap" beat Imho ist the "Kush Groove". or otherwise known as Sucka MCs by RUN DMC.
I think the innovation is actually the drive to bring electronic sounds back into the acoustic realm on the kit. Clap stacks and other stacks, as well as other drum adornments are mostly trying to pull in sounds from hip hop, techno and dnb.
The clap stack is just the one that has sort of proliferated the most (and looks the most striking)
Electronic music rediscovered the primal "clap" as a rhythm instrument for use alongside any other trap kit instrument, which then inspired the commercial reproduction of a one-handed acoustic clap sound with more volume and cut. But the acoustic idea and use long predates the first commercial product.
Stacks has been a thing since late 90’s early 200’s where I’m from.. we love stacks in West TN .. especially when they cracked👌🏾 the different sounds u get
@@kazzd58 this is true but the particular stack I’m referring to wasn’t a thing until Trevor Lawrence invented it. At least commercially.
If it was one of your heroes it wouldn't be an ambiguous talk about the origin it would be a direct praise of your "hero" drummer. We need to start being honest about this and the actually reasons behind the manufacturing of the history of its inception.
@@sofab1974 Trevor I meant no offense. I was trying to tread lightly because of the sponsor issue but I should have included a mention of your name. It’s only due to my being sketchy on the details of the origin story and wanting the focus to be on how drummers have adapted the invention rather than the invention, and not out of any desire to exclude your name, that I made the oversight. I should mention I’m flattered that you discovered my little channel. If you’d ever want to tell the story in an interview I’d be honored to have you on my podcast. I wouldn’t presume you have the time or inclination though. Either way, didn’t mean to offend.
I would be curious as to how you approached them... " Here's what I'm looking for, is this possible?" They must have sent prototypes ? It's all interesting to me. And thank you...
I think the stack only imitates the tonality of the clap sounds. IMO the reason the clap was so popular is that it had a wide stereo field with multiple delays eg like a crowd clapping. Except for the later sample at the end where the rim shot and stack were played at the same time, I don't think it really accomplishes the effect. Though the multiple cymbals reverberating off each other may have a somewhat of a single channel multi-hit which would be useful for recording.
Another cool way to make a clap sound on an acoustic kit: crosstick flam
I have yet to play one of those stacks…. But I think stacks overall have changed the way the world plays drum kits. Like auxiliary hats have been a thing, but it seems like it’s only been since around the early 2000’s that people started stacking cymbals that weren’t intended to be stacked. And from that came companies making cymbals designed to be stacked such as those. Another super popular combo is some kind of China paired with a trash crash. I totally dig the whole idea as it allows for making good use of cracked cymbals, plus it’s fun to have a weird acoustic sound to play around with.
0:36 dancin like a moon gel!!
I feel like i have a phd in stack now. I think when something gets adopted like stacks have it is like introducing something into the evolutionary history of drums like a mutation does in nature. Humans are going to explore the shit out of it too, it might evolve out but for now its dominating the drum set.
Bill Bruford used a paleo version of this, by accident, on the Red album with King Crimson and as far as I know, on tour with Gong
It wasn't a stack. It was a Zilco cymbal he found in the trash. Someone bent it 90˚, presumably so it would fit in the trash can. Sad thing is, after it finally fell apart, he sent Paiste a copy of Red and asked them if they could make a cymbal that sounded like it, and they ignored him.
@@jc3drums916 I know it wasn't a stack, hence my naming it "paleo". There's a similarity on the sound too, which is another reason for my mention of it.
It's really cool that people are making these now.
I recognize that I didn't mention it not being a stack either, sorry for the misunderstanding caused by my halfassed sentence (also pardon me for any grammar mistakes).
@@jc3drums916 doesn't matter whether it was technically a stack but whether it was used in a similar capacity.
I prefer a flat stack but I enjoy the grooves people come up with with the bent stack
5:04 lol in a way its good since it could force you to switch to openhanded playing
Interesting… Would love a vid on the history of them. Who invented them? How are they made, why do they look melted? Earliest use? Who popularized them and when? How did their use evolve, and by who? What's the timeline?
I believe the first commercial release of one of these was the Istanbul Agop Clap Stack, designed with Trevor Lawrence Jr. I remember Zildjian took a fair bit of slack (smack?) when they came out with their own ‘Trap stack’, without crediting the original at all, but since then it seems that most cymbal companies are producing their own versions.
That said, their existence and use long predates their commercial "invention"
The irony! A ‘natural’ thing designed to mimic the sound of a drum machine! Anyway, about 20 years ago I acquired an Engelhart Ribbon Crasher. It does something similar. Not identical though; if the sound you’re after is that old drum machine sound, this ‘smack stack’ is the better option.
I'd argue that stacks are really not that innovative, but add a texture that has been integrated into acoustic drum players. Hi-hats were actually a mechanical device and was a new instrument all by itself and was definitely innovative. Interestingly enough, I believe it is actual drum machines that caused new playing styles for acoustic drumming in the modern context. For example, the hi-hat pattern in the techno funk song "You're In My System" by the illustrious 80's/90's techno funk duo Mic Murphy and David Frank of The System. That pattern made me think and play in ways I never thought about. Or The Time's "777-9311" hi-hat, originally programmed on a drum machine by Prince himself legend has it.
Drum machines altered acoustic drumming forcing drummers to innovate replicating those rhythms. Drum machines just simply didn't add a texture like stacks have, they altered the trajectory of popular music drumming causing the creation of a whole new style of acoustic drumming.
Be well this day.
E
What is the size of the stack you're playing?
Thanks in advance.
Who gets credit for the first stacked cymbal? Not upside down splashes over ride bell, not secondary hats, like a proper stack. I know I was messing with them in the early and mid 2000's but I have no idea where I got the idea from, probably some gospel chops video. It'd be nice to give credit where it's due.
couldn't agree more, clap stack is the biggest cymbal innovation for a long long time
Who’s the drummer at 13:15? He’s very familiar but I cant quite remember
I saw the other Nate Smith yesterday and he played a stack on pretty much every song. It got tired after a while.
No mention of the creator of the CLAP STACK Trevor Lawrence Jr.
I was wondering what it was, thanks
I wonder if the nature of the drum kit, i.e., a collection of instruments that's a pain to transport and setup, ultimately confines us to always return to a basic setup? I've tried adding various cymbals, drums, percussion, electronics etc. over the years but I always end up getting annoyed with having to carry an extra drum or cymbal stand. In the end it always comes down to a pragmatism for me, what do I need and what can I do without.
Different gigs, different palettes, different kits
@@ayoungethan Sure, that's assuming you have the money and space for a bunch of setups
Stacks can give more textures to what you're playing but I don't think they're really revolutionary because they don't ultimately affect the rhythm you're playing and that's the whole point of percussion
@@TokyoScarab of course they do! I give multiple examples in the video
if it sounds like a shaker people love it... geurros to snare drums to hihat trap beats... tsch
sweet love your ideal cand what teaching hear sweet thanks
I was stacking cymbals back in early 2000’s after seeing Billy Ward do it at the MD Festival. Plus before the stack setup the clap sound was being done with electronic equipment. Nothing new at all.
@@ediot6969 just curious - how much of the video did you watch
turn the snare off and place the stack to the left 👌
Actual pancake stacks sound better to me, honestly. But it is breakfast time… 🥞
Well, at least it got crashers down to a minimum.
“No feel” Neil. Look what you’ve done. Drummers or sous chefs?
Istanbul were the inventors of the clap.stack but Mainl is super aggresve with the marketing. Again, Istanbul invented them.
you know, doesnt the backbeat kinda come from black spirituals/gospel music? like so the stack claps are kinda going full circle, by using it as a back beat application?
sure. I mean, black spirituals underlie a LOT of american music, from jazz to blues to rock to hip hop. So you could argue that "clap" is pretty fundamental to the way we play drums writ large.
"Pancake stack"? I always head clap stack.
ik u could grow the craziest wizard beard ever
You meant "Dali painting", surely... (^o^)
Stacks are not new. I remember seeing them in the 80s. First time I saw one, it was a splash on a crash.
Today's stack is a phase. 10 years it will be the "stack years".
I don't think so. It allows a drummer to clap with one hand and no change in technique. Clap sounds are pretty universal and primal. Unlike the cowbell.
Ill pass
It's just another tool in the arsenal that is a drumset. The tool is not innovation in itself, the drummer then innovates or is inspired to do so. I would argue that the real "evolution" is due to the cross-pollination between electronic, digital mediums and the acoustic and analog means. Personnaly the more i learn about drums and music the more I realize that in terms of technical applications its all been done before , imagination and our desire to communicate with music is the only true creative freedom and currency we have.
@@Sheepstealer8927 I mean I agree, but isn’t that basically my thesis from the video?
@@8020drummer tbh I didn't watch much of the video, so I didn't stick around for the final argument /thesis, I'm not surprised we reached a similar conclusions though. You have dedicated years to the craft and even create content that celebrates and encourages the human( creative and others) aspect in drumming in all its imperfections and constant revisions. I would've been a bit shocked if you would've just jumped into the bandwagon of "this new fad/tool/lick changes everything" , with all the first hand experience you have about drumming and it's community. I meant no disrespect, appreciate the content and philosophy.
So no love to Trevor Lawrence the very man who inveted the Clap stack?
Not even a single mention of the pioneer drummer and manufacturer that invented the damn thing. I usually love Nate’s videos, Especially the interviews so the fact that there’s no interview or at least honorable/morally respectful mention is absolutely disheartening.
Dudes it was not invented in 2018. It was commercialized in 2018.
Who invented the hi hat? Why don't we give homage to that person amidst all the copycats and pretenders?
Snoms! Bongos! Buggy chokes.
How are you not talking about the influence of trap? So bizarre to see this ovcious spillover from drum programming attached to gear.
@@5minuterevolutionary493 I talked about that in another video 2 years ago
All I hear in the examples is the beater bouncing on the kick head 😞
name one. With time index.
:34 Honestly, I thinks it's most of the time you're playing. I'm not even saying it's wrong, I just don't like the sound. "Bouncing" may not be the best way to describe what I'm talking about, but heel up on a higher tuned kick often sounds distracting/not great to me (because of the beater spending a little time on the resonating head). I'm not a heel down purest or anything- burying the beater into a floppy low rock kick often sounds pretty good to me
@@sawdustcrypto3987 I think you’re wrong. I’m not planting the head in the beater even a little. What you’re hearing might just be an artifact of the head or the beater, or the mic. I worked very hard to eliminate vibration and extra bounces. After your comment this is a little obsessive but I reviewed all the footage in the video to make sure I wasn’t wrong.
Smack sounds been around forever. I love meinl cymbals, but I never got a stack. In fact I may the only one who doesn’t care for it. Any one else not mesmerized the meinl stack?
Have you tried carrying that monstrosity to a gig? 😃
Ahh, flat stacks...the drummer's answer to the question, "what's the sound of one hand clapping?"
I mean, if you could make a primal clap sound with one hand without having to learn a special and difficult technique while keeping the other hand free to make a bunch of other sounds, wouldn't you? Or would you tell the band to hire a professional clapper?
@@ayoungethan don’t the Spaniards have a device for that?
I see a lot of people flocking to these novelty items. It's been happening for years.
These stacks probably won't become ubiquitous in an enduring way, universally. Your average Foo Fighters, or even older rock guys in their 60, might not have any interest.
But, for the more conformist crowd, it might. It feels like these guys all want to sound exactly the same and play the same types of styles, grooves, etc, etc. So, in that community, I could see a scenario where, yes, it COULD become a mainstay, but I seriously doubt it. The popular drummers will move on to something else, start like suspending drums from a ceiling, or using an actual toilet for a throne. If all the cool kids who play tappy-fast say it's cool, the next trend will be born.
...How long have clap sounds been around in music...?
Drum machines get invented and the CB pinnacle of drum machines hits when they can use real sampled drum sounds ,.. real drum kits evolve to where they can sound like old crappy drum machines haha
no,.
No
.im so confused why you don't call these what they are called everywhere else. a clap stack. if you go online and look to buy one. they are always called a clap stack. ive literally never heard them called anything else until this video. just annoys me because new drummers are gonna look for these things and not beable to find them and just be misled a little in general. Then you start just using the word stack. as if this is the only stack out there. which also seems a little deceiving for a new drummer. since the possibilities with stacks are endless. and this is just one kind of stack. no big deal im just confused as to why, is there some reason you didn't call it a clap stack? If i missed something in the video that explains why then i apologize,
OK i see where meinl calls them a smack stack instead of a clap stack. they are literally the only company that does though. ofcourse thats the brand of cymbals your playing, so i kinda understand now,
No.
Sounds pretty aggressive sorry you feel so threatened by an old man. Just an old man's perspective on history. I'm happy for you young guys that get to work on new things, mainly don't think new surfaces are life changing. Just like I don't think prince or Michael Jackson are geniuses. Another perspective to ponder.. I'm good with change go for it... fun to learn new things for sure
It's just another snare really. It's nothing revolutionary, not compared to the hi hat for instance.
I hate the sound of stacks. I want cymbals that don't sound like that.
You can make ambiguous videos all you want and try to minimize the Innovation of THE CLAP STACK which was the originator of this cymbal. Your company Meinl copied it and that's fine so have many others. But stop trying to rationalize and minimize the original invention. A Black Man came up with this idea and you can't seem to admit or be historically accurate. Clap sounds have been around for years. the decision to adopt this sound
For drum set was not done until the Original Clap Stack came out in 2018. STOP TRYING TO REWRITE HISTORY.
Do you talk about hi hats ever without mentioning Barney Walberg and Papa Jo Jones?
This shameless copy of Istanbul Agop Clap stack made me lose respect for Meinl.
Yeah then Zildjian showed up like 5 years after meinl with their own haha
@@DruMarshallDrumsI was pretty sure that zildjian's agop copy came first, but now I'm not so certain
@@DastardlyInfallible maybe I’m wrong? I just remember seeing Zildjian promote their version and getting absolutely roasted for it haha. It felt like it was fairly recent but I’m not positive either
@@DruMarshallDrums I think Zildjian's came out in 2020, Meinl's around a year or two later.
Yeah! Don't get me started on all those pretenders and copycats who shamelessly stole the idea of the hi hat! We all owe Barney Walberg and Papa Jo Jones apologies.
I still think they're a fad
@@brent3760 🤣🤣🤷♂️
No, I don't give a crap about yo-yo fads.
A clap sound playable one handed and without any significant change in technique is more than a fad. Its been around since the 80s at least, despite its more recent commercialization.
Yeah a stack of alloy that cost an arm and a leg. Dumbest thing ever created in my opinion. How the hell can they justify the cost of this junk that doesn’t even ring or has any tonality whatsoever. Stupidest cymbal ever made in my opinion. Shouldn’t cost more than $50 honestly. It’s not made any special way at all. I been to the manufacturer and I’ve seen it been made. It’s insane that people are dumb enough to spend the money on one of these garbage pieces of alloy
I prefer the Paiste PST X version. Gives me a lot more versatility. I can arrange it as hats plus flanger crash, or flanger stack plus crash, or any combo. 14" doesn't take up much real estate. Didn't cost much.
just get 3 cymbals from craigslist or gumtree and shape them yourself. Not sure why you're so mad about how it sounds
Useless for anything non house/hip hop which isnt really music anyway to me so....keep your stack with your crack.
You don't think a clap sound is musically useful beyond hip hop/house? I know a lot of people who disagree.
Funk, Soul, and R&B had all used claps for danceable songs, so its not just for Hip Hop and House.