I play professionally as both a bassist and a drummer. Most musicians don't understand the drums or can speak "drum language" to them. It's the reason why a lot of drummers are in their own world, separate from the rest of the band. A lot of musicians also don't know what to look for or listen for with a drummer and it might take time to just find out if things feel right, or not. A lot of the advice in this video is about basic professionalism. Don't be a jerk. But specifically, what I look for in a drummer is someone with a solid feel who shows he understands the various textures of each part of the song and applies appropriate and tasteful accompaniment. Then I know I'm dealing with a musician, not just a guy who plays drums.
Yes. I have an example. A few times, I've been asked to "speed up" a tune that was actually at a proper tempo and, just to check, have changed the high hat from quarter notes to eighths, or eighths to sixteenths and gotten the reply "Yeah, that's it...faster".
I've found that less is more to be the way to more gigs. Show up with a small kit, small ego, don't overplay, know your stuff and be chill and once several bands get to jam with you and have that good experience your phone will ring and ring. Especially if there are a lot of loud drummers with giant kits in your town. Also, with a smaller kit you can get in and out pretty quickly making it possible to play multiple gigs in a day
One gripe with the drummer comment. The bassist wants a sensible amount of gear set up, but when you do a trio gig, he wants more than just 2 cymbals so he doesn't have to hear the same cymbals the entire gig. You can't have both, dude. As a gigging drummer, I don't care how a bassist feels about my cymbal array and amount; if you can't lock with my pocket then you suck as a bassist regardless of your chops. The only thing that matters between bassist and drummer is locking in together. PERIOD.
His comment was actually to be tasty with it weather there are two cymbals or bunch including a China and splash. He just said he doesn't wanna hear the same crash over and over every phrase. This means learn to switch up the sounds you are making or where you play them. Just different things to be aware of depending on the set up you choose
A quick story about playing different genres. I'm a classically-trained clarinetist and pianist, but I play contemporary styles of music, too. I play keyboard in a few local bands. One of those bands plays a combination of ska and top 40 material to play at restaurants and other venues. But one day we were approached by a local singer who does country music to ask if we could be his backup band (the gig paid $100 each), so we agreed, learned the music, and backed him up. That would have been a good enough lesson, but a few weeks later when we were at one of our regular gigs at a pizza place, a guy comes up to us, offering us a tip, but asking if we play any country songs. Well, sure enough, we had just backed up a country singer a few weeks before so we were able to pull out one of those songs and play it to get the tip.
Yes owning a trailer and also possibly a van #1 needed musical characteristic to be in a band. lol I really enjoy running "Front of House" for a band. Even bands that kinda well, you know suck as long as they can pay ya. lol
Playing drums as a backup for a big artist "X", someone commented "X sang like never before this time" and it's one of the best compliments to me I could have ever heard. During rehearsals I noticed that the songs were too fast and he wasn't completely comfortable, so I tried to lower the BPMs a little compared to how they were playing them before. Being a music with many changes and no clic, for me it was quite difficult and I didn't have room to show off, but the final result was undoubtedly better. Nobody cares but I feel better :)
Sure we care, that is why we are reading the comments. Good stuff, everyone on the floor must have felt the same even at the time if they were used to playing it faster and just went with it.
@@streamofconsciousness5826 I mean nobody in the audience cares about me or my skills, they're there for the big name and that's part of the job. Playing drums sometimes means that if you're there and nobody noticed it's probably a good thing.
As a new drummer, I get weigh all comments and lear. From them. One thing I have lustened, read, it is Experience, doing the homework, the practice is vital for the integrity, a d do ones best not to embarrass oneself & others. This makes want to practice that much more. Thank you musicians😊❤
No Pay, No Play unless otherwise agreed to before the gig. In NYC, I have always asked, point blank, how much this gig pays. Up front. No codependency or avoidance language. Get the money conversation out of the way immediately. I have never had an issue with money since the 80s due to having a straightforward, forward, honest conversation right from the beginning.
There’s something to be said for muscle memory. I don’t bring every drum I own to a gig but I always bring my double kick even though I’m playing mostly blues rock stuff. I always believe in practice like your performing. Having my double kick slave pedal in place saves me messing around with my HH stand to get the right position even if I almost never use it. If my kit isn’t set the way I’m used to I can’t flow naturally or I’m having to concentrate on hitting the kit the right way instead of focusing on groove and feel. I’m definitely not the greatest drummer but I’ve been regularly gigging for a few years.
That's cool. I thankfully had my double kick (Tama) with me that I didn't always use or need, but the main spring decided to give up tension 3 songs in. I played the rest of the set, (and again set 2 ) sidesaddle, using the left pedal to get me through until I fixed it. 20 years, and it was the first time it ever broke. I learned one other thing too, the bass drum isn't very loud, with the left beater!
Great stuff Ryan - very informative. I am a full time keyboard player/occasional bass player, at age 60 - retired from my day job of almost 30 years... and I TOTALLY was in sync with EVERY point you made, excellent.
I played (for a short time) with a rock band with a drummer who was a percussion teacher at a local high school and who over-played like crazy, every song was like a drum solo, the rest of the band was good. I had spent some time in Nashville playing, road work, sessions, record deal etc and one day this drummer asked me if I thought he would do well in Nashville. I said “well first thing, you’ll have to cut off one of your arms”.
A touring guitarist told me his 2 out of 3 rule. He doesn't take his guitar out of its case unless he is going to 1/Have Fun, 2/ Learn Something, or 3/Get paid.
Ya, nice one! In the video the talked about "What to expect from another person" - but this one covers "What do I expect from a gig". Love the idea. I have some other ideas, but they may pay into these categories - doing a charity thing without payment --> is maybe 1) fun or 3) a different kind of payment. Or playing a private gig for a friend - same thing. Yeah, I think it's a good idea ... thanks for sharing! Keep rockin!
I used to intentionally bring less toys than needed back in the day of the big double bass rock kits. It was a challenge to play 40 rock songs on a 4 piece and it makes you a better player. That could very well have been one of the best things I ever did early on as a drummer for my own development
My last touring gig a few years ago was as the bassist with the Motown group The Miracles. The band’s musicianship was off the charts good and these guys were all 3 - except the drummer. The drummer was amazing but he was constantly late for rehearsals, flights, etc and would literally roll up to rehearsals forgetting to bring his entire kit. His entire personal life was a disaster. But he was a great great player and really fun to hang out with so we put up with him! I spent years in the LA studios and most of those guys I played with had all 3 going for them. Total pros.
Good conversation, appreciate you posting this. One important thing I've learned over the years (and especially learned when I started learning to play a bit of bass, and really listen intently to the bassline on recordings), Is that so much of the funk and the groove in a pop/rock/r&b setting comes from the bass. Holding down a simple back beat while the bass player dances around In the space and adds syncopation...to my ears that is a beautiful thing.
Self taught Bass Player of 40 years here.. many bands ,100's of gigs thru the yrs along my journey..... I thank you for this kind of Vid.. I am a believer that You can never know to much , and you shud never stop learning.. now after your video , I know more and i also learned alot.. I thank you for this.. Great Video.. Great Info... TY,, and of course... 🤘Keep Rockn!!
@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 I understand what the quote means. I'm saying Moonie did both. That guy could start a fill in between beats in an odd spot and land it perfectly in time. His style was uniquely his own and he was an animal. A complete and utter showman. His drumming also added layers and textures to the music, all perfectly in time. He played to the guitar and vocals as much as he did to the bass. He wasn't just the drummer, he was the lead drummer. As were they all on their instruments in The Who.
Yea I would argue that, though Mr. Bruford almost certainly didn't understand Moonie's playing, it certainly fit within the confounds of that quote. Always meaning something, even possibly at the expense of making it work... And considering how similarly Jamie Muir played to Moon, maybe Bruford Did have some appreciation for his "pushing the boundaries of music". And he seems to have appreciated Moon more than his other contemporaries like Ginger Baker.
I was brought up as a rock drummer, but one of my best gigs was in a country band. Since then, I've played country, rock, jazz, and show tunes. Now I play drums on my own music.
I have only played a few dozen gigs as a drummer, but here's my 2 cents... For drum kit, use the smallest you can get away with, but add 1 or 2 things that can be clamped on or added somehow (doesn't need its own stand) that will make your kit look and sound as musical as possible (within both style of music and TASTE, of course). Small doesn't have to mean basic and boring. Extra percussion (maracas, spiral stackers, bells) can help fill in some gaps. Know the numbers for your footprint and have that exact size of rug cut out. Practice setting up and getting off the stage quickly. Little things can make a difference, for example, replace the lug nuts with the clamp-style for your cymbals. Before you go up, assemble as much as you can off-stage if you are part of a lineup. Get off quickly and help the next band if you have time and they could use it. Invest in a good IEM system. Install an XLR port in your bass drum and have a mic in there. Have some XLRs and lollipop mics you can hang on the guitar cabs. If you handle your own monitoring, it will be appreciated all around. Removing wedges makes the FOH sound better and makes their job easier. This might seem like overkill for small gigs, but I am always glad when I go through the trouble. I will play better for it if it sounds better to me.
As a drummer I play with in ears and a click. Depending on the venue it's either or. They can run my in ears or they can run my click but not both. If I can't run in ears then I just forgo the option to run a click and just run it to my in ears straight from my phone which is where my click is and just use their wedge monitor. It's great though when they can accommodate both with an incredible drum mix.
I’m a drummer and I learned early in my life most of the things you mentioned. I find this to be spot on information. I’ve been blessed to work with great players and great people. I love your outlook on the gigging process. I love how you describe the gigging musician. I play country right now but I have played many genres because my drum instructor taught me to be prepared for all music or I might never get a gig. He was right. By the way I enjoy any music when I’m working with great players. Thanks for your solid advise. This interview rejuvenated my belief and energized me for tonight’s gig. Excellent 😊
Such a great conversation and insight into what makes a band work and our lives pleasant. I'm not a musician, but provide the sound for a number of our local bands and as such get to work with a lot of great people. Love the 2 out of 3 rule. But, generally we have a great bunch of people in the gigging music industry and I'm sure most of us wouldn't want to change what we do. Thanks for the video, looking forward to the next one.
I loved to gig when I was younger, focused on studio work as an older musician. Life on the road is not easy on a family man. Got the call from my wife in 2004 that my first born had taken their first steps. I was in Denver and the family was in Atlanta. Kids treating me like a stranger when I was home. Three months out sometimes, missed a lot of special events with the people I was trying to support. Income was also feast or famine, it takes a special kind of person and an understanding wife. With that said, can’t imagine doing anything else for a living.
I never had trouble scaling down drums, can play most anything with 1 or 2 toms and single kick, however i always agonize over cymbal selection. To make myself(and everyone else) happy what i do now is setup 3 stands only, and an extension off my HH for splashes. In between sets, i quickly swap out High Hat tops, splashes, different crashes, chinas, and rides on those same 3 stands. Over 3 sets, this allows me to play just about my entire cymbal arsenal, and keeps things fresh and creative, and my sound and playing varies a bit depending on the inspiration of the setup.
As a younger human, I was the drummer in 3 local bands. I had pro gear, a great attitude, was fun to hang with, and also did a lot of the bookings n stuff. Notice I didn't say I was good. 😂 I was solid & played to a metronome all of the time. All of this worked in my favor, even though I wasn't the best drummer in the valley. OH... I was also always sober at practice & gigs.
I can tell you're both great musicians by the truth with which you speak and the absolute lack of ego present in your conversation. Thanks for this talk. You got a new subscriber from it. All the best.
Awesome video, brother! I’m 47 and haven’t played live in over 20 years, so this was packed with great insights. I just joined a Rush cover band, and while I doubt I’ll be leaving much of my kit at home for that kind of gig, I still really appreciated the conversation and the peek into the mindset of regular gigging musicians. Liked and subscribed!
I really enjoyed this banter! I will strive to be a 3 out of 3 (or an 'A' game player) - thanks for your help! Playing my first gig in 40+ years on New Year's Eve, I'll be 71 (bassist) - it's gonna be EPIC!
Lol, there's a drummer that I loved playing with. Good pocket, great energy, and a fun hang but he'd always be the last one to show up, get dates mixed up, forget a snare, etc. Always something but he had two out of three. 🤣🤣🤣
This was great! I have learned to be prepared and pare down to what you need on gigs. I play part time (side job) in a cover band, and always have great respect for bass players.
here's my idea . The band is a Bus drummer drives the bus, Bassist paves the road for the bus. Drummer obeys the speed limit ALWAYS Bassist makes sure he smooths the road to insure no speed bumps or pot holes. Drummer keeps the Bus moving steady and not speeding up or slowing down all the time. Bassist must know the road map ! and ensures the bus make it tothe destination never hits the ditch.
What an awesome interview. Love the 2 out of 3 rule. I'm an "average at best" drummer not earning anything at it but the guys I play with keep saying how good I am. Not letting it get to my head but I'm able to compromise on the "what, where, how much, etc", play a small but effective kit and use a click to make sure tempo is accurate. Some might consider it cheating (click that is) but it's like turning on cruise control allowing everyone else to play the tune at the right speed including lyrics. Also, did I say I'm a "average at best" so my meter isn't perfect either...LOL! Thank you for posting this. Subscribing to the channel.
Hey Marc, I am a drummer and read your comments. Maybe you can help me. My meter is " ok " I guess, but I always look to improve it. I used metronomes that have helped over 60 years of drumming. BUT, technology totally, well I am still at the bus stop, and the bus is 3 towns past me. Way behind. So, on some tunes that I struggled with that my band plays, I could never find out what the correct bpms are. When I try to match the recordings to my metronome, it seems to change and I am always wrong. Please help, what does use a click mean, logistically for gigging? I have recorded in studios that simply put it in my headphones, but what equipment would I buy for that, and where can I find the correct tempos? Btw, my band plays classic rock. Thanks
@@steverichdrummr Tama Rhytm track is a drummers best friend. Easy to use made for drummers for both rehearsel and live performances. Just make sure you get good earphones so you can hear the click. A game changer for me.
@@steverichdrummr Hey Steve. Like Robert mentions, the Tama unit I'm sure is great although I've never used it. TBH, I use an app on my phone called Metronome Beats Pro. I chose to pay the 1 time small fee at the beginning because then I get access to building setlists. I use a website called "Find the BPM" to figure out what the original tempo is. From there, sometimes the band wants it a little faster so easy adjusment. If you're able to comment on the RUclips video, I'm sure you can do these things... . Good set of earphones helps but again, I use my regular bluetooth earbuds and adjust the volume. Probably helps I play an acoustic kit that's been converted to electronic with mesh heads so my quieter. Getting used to the click with a band was the biggest adjustment but once I did, loved it. Let me know if this helped and if you have any other questions. Cheers
I’ve only been in garage/living room bands, and finding a drummer who could play AND owned a kit was always as far as I/we got. Last time out a friend and I were about to put a drummer wanted ad out there when we lost our rehearsal space. We had to give up our rock n roll dreams. Too much gray hair and real life got in the way. Still have my gear, never have time to even noodle around. Rock on!
I needed this, I've been working hard on bass for the last 10 years. At 61, doing quite a few fill in gigs for some local cover bands and doing lots of songs at the Big Beaver Studio. This video validated all my hard work and persistence. I'm out there doing stuff and getting paid.
Fantastic glimpse into the world of playing gigs and being a professional musician in all aspects. I'm a pretty new drummer, really only in it for my own enjoyment, so I "likely" won't ever play a gig. However, this discussion series is of great value to me. First, I may one day end up on a tiny, dark stage in the corner somewhere, but more importantly, I have a bunch of friends who are awesome professional musicians and this helps me understand so much more what they have to do, go through, and endure as they entertain the masses. Looking forward to the next video in this series!
Love this video covering the "soft-skill-side" - most musicians 1) don't understand this or 2) doing this subconsciously. On most points I just thought "Yeah, exactly!" and there were also some things I said "Nice one, need to think about it!" Best video I've seen for weeks on youtube. Was also fun to watch you talking. So this video get's 3 out of 3: 1) You're good on content and presentation, 2) you've been prepared or did the video-job done great and 3) you raised my sprit, was fun watching you. Will share with other friends / musicians and check out your channel. Thanks for doing this video! best regards, Stefan
Hi Stefan. Thank you so much for watching, sharing, subscribing, and commenting! I'm grateful that you found some value in it. I'm mostly just talking about things that I have seen many times with students and less experienced players. See you on the next one.
That bonus tip just absolutely cracked me up! Just flip off the snares lol I remember forgetting to flip off my snares and sneaking back up from behind the stage to turn them off then hiding behind the kick drum until the next break to avoid disturbing the show any more than I had to.
Love that 2 out of 3 rule and have experienced it myself already. And guess what one of the forst things I learned on the drums was: To turn of that snare... Many thanks to Ryan and you for these insights!
@@CommonSenseMusician I was told to turn off the snare whenever it´s not in use. So it won't rattle and annoy everyone but it also takes the tension off. And that also makes sense in a long term.
8:00 I have a John in my life. Such a mess with remembering to message back and so chaotic. But suuuuch a joy of a human being and a gorgeous player, I'll happily take on the extra mental overhead of keeping him organised if it means I get to play with him
I play in a 7 piece Allman brothers, tedeschi- trucks Derek and the Dominoes cover band and bring whatever fits the stage. If there’s room for my riser I use it. I’ve always said that I play for free and get paid to travel
Very useful advice, esp for an old basement drummer in his 70s! Thank you. Will hone my 2/3. And figure out how to do the meet & greet. I'm a few decades behind...
As a Hoosier who lives right down the road from Purdue Fort Wayne, I hope to see you at a gig sometime. You seem to be someone I would want as a neighbor. Safe travels!
Hello from France ! I'm a young drummer and I'm a 2/3 guy, still need to work on my click to be able to improvise on it. I already know and apply most of the points of your video and discover some things about money. So thanks for your content, it makes me want to always get better at music !
Thank you for this conversation, fantastic content and a very humble person, great dude. Keep on bringing working guys to your channel, the community enjoys every minute.
Yeah, I agree that there is a different mentality for your band versus hired player. If I am doing original music, I will make my set one way (maybe complicated), but if I'm in a set situation, I will bring the bare minimum.
I nailed two out of the three things needed to keep a gig. I was never a great drummer so I tried to make up for it in every way I could. I never got beyond the entry level cover band stage but I have what it takes to be processional and do my part. However, the inability to deal with mediocre musician's egos was not one of my skills so all I can do is listen , love and learn from the sidelines :) This was a great video for me because I already know all these things and they seem like common sense/ common knowledge.
I started out playing drums as a teenager, bringing alot of gear. Later i realised i can play the same things with less gear, you just need to know how the drums work, how they sound when hitting the cymbals in different spots. Same musical effect can be achieved with a small kit as with a big kit.
Great stuff! Definitely going to try and use that bit about doing a favor rather than play for not much bread. It just feels better when you've been able to do that for someone. And, the other part about having a threshold for how much of that stuff you're willing to do... setting boundaries. What a smart way to frame it. I hope there's more convos like this one on your channel. Just stumbled across this one scrolling my feed. I have a channel too, EmergencyDrummer. Cheers!
Regarding “Making it or not”, I’ve been a working local musician for 55 years. I learned early that being the big star means, you’re either the writer of a hit song or a singer who’s been discovered. Since I play cover songs and sing, I’m happy playing and singing and have had no expectations for anything else. I get paid a reasonable rate and love doing it.
Great conversation. It’s not even brutally honest, these are facts that every musician ( not just drummers) should be professional meaning being prepared, reliable , respectful and being a team player in order to have an awesome gig or show. In terms of talent fee just ask the person who hires you in a respectful manner and when you say yes to the gig then commit to it. Other than my opinion Ryan nailed those pointers and tips.
Great interview…. Gigging drummer for 20 + . My drums are my family….certain gigs require certain « family members « with you, according to the gig style & the room. On time ; quality gear
I play bass. I love how this is back and forth. I love the "two out of three" rule. Be a good hang is the most important. If you nail that you have a chance without the other two while you are learning. It is the most important rule. A reliable shredder will not last unless that person is booking the gigs, or the rest of the band is insecure.
As a drummer myself, I understand that a good drummer will have, above all else, a solid pocket groove and also an understanding of dynamics, only playing what the song needs, and a less is more attitude. Many of you will agree, in theory. But some of the greatest drummers on the rock side who embody these qualities are often the most overlooked in the "greatest rock drummer" lists. Drummers like Charlie Watts, Ringo Starr, Nick Mason, and Phil Rudd. All masters of the solid pocket, less is more style. It's the flashy drummers that overplay and stand out that get all the attention. That's why so many drummers try to emulate them.
I agree with what they said. Mostly. I’m a bassist. I play with a few drummers who have a great pocket. Brings the kit that the music/venue would support. I never criticize my fellow musicians. Most musicians especially drummers know what the gig is and bring what is needed. Especially if there are a lot of stairs. My pet peeve is the musicians noodle around during soundcheck. And after when the house music is on before the show starts or during break. I think you should set up have mini test of your instrument then off stage until it is time to start. No playing while break music is playing. Side note. Players should know their parts as best as possible. Do not play the same part as the bass player etc. unless it’s on the recording. Including keyboards Especially guitar players.
Entry level drummer here. I'm not showing up to satisfy anyone's ego. I play for fun. Let's have a laugh, let's get the folks up and dancing. Audience only knows a good time. Dont have to play perfectly , they will identify the tune and fill in the blanks, if the band is getting along. They can sense it. BTW, our university jazz alumni just did a wonderful jam session with 2 whole cymbals on the kit. And yes it was tasty.
I have played Professional Drumming in younger days travelling all over the country and parts of Europe.. .I also got a Full -time job at the age of 36 at a Transportation co. ( Buses) I love the analogy with the Bass / Drummer How they relate to the Band !! He is absolutely correct !!
Great conversation here. Another real challenging gig is being on a cruise ship contract. Aside from living in the same place you work with virtually no days off, you’re extremely if not completely limited on personal gear, you play with different people all the time, you have no schedule; if you’re needed to sub for someone you get the call and are expected to be dressed and present within 10 minutes with absolutely no idea of what genre the set is. Often playing 4 times in one day. Not only that but what really threw me was the amount of sight reading we did, with zero rehearsal, day in and day out. You learn to fit in. But you never get to “go home” after the night. Finding space and time to actually practice is incredibly frustrating too. You’re also elbow to elbow with all different nationalities, sometimes language barriers…. so you just have to speak the universal language of music and make it work. When you’re playing, you smile and if the guests dance and tap their feet….. it’s a good set.
The great Ryan Tilby… rock on, and thanks for the tips. Folks, don’t question tips from a pro who has been on every kind of stage for thousands of gigs. It’s true too and I might add that if the hang is that awful on tour, it might overshadow chops and dependability. All three things play a part.
I have always only taken what I need. Never more or less. I let my drum setup, tuning sound & how I play talk for my level of being an amateur drummer. & I can honestly say I’m good enuff to play & I do hold on to my bands & the gigs. On time & play what the song needs with the band.
Bass player here. Semi-related gripe for other bassists. Stop smacking the strings on 2 and 4 unless you’re playing without a drummer. I get it, you’re feeling the groove. But good drummers adjust where they place their snare hits. If he parks it behind the beat and your smack is ahead or on it, all we get is slop. 2 and 4 is his job. Don’t try to do it for him. End rant
Great conversation Great inf, agreed 100% , im a drummer from very long time (47), now im basically recording for a Band and i Love it arts are not sports in my humble opinion nobody is "the best" , here's nor a competition, what you do is unique and come directly from your Soul and your Heart, there's no way to challenge that, same as u can tell a kid that his drawing isnt good enough or worse than others if he or she really is really talented on that or any other art
Lot of hate on the monsterkit for obvious reasons. But there are really shows where it adds a dimension to the whole show. Big powerful songs like Diana Ross's, or in the air tonight by Phil Collins, getting that Epicness from having 5+ toms makes it sound bigger for me.
Thank you! Nice flow, content flying along 😊 I've been a pretty busy, touring drummer at different times but started having seizures in my 20s so obviously I'm not driving anymore. It's really hard, but I've been in some more bands and recorded, etc. Only one seizure onstage after yrs with it. I try to be clear up front (and fun+cheerful heh) that I'm sick and can't drive, and I can get myself to gigs, have a good network, but a ride w'gear from a band is 500x easier for me. I do what I can, and I've gotten myself to a lot of gigs since this started. Just a bit limited in my resources for last-minute gigs, outta town etc. without transp. Maybe I shouldn't be trying so hard LOL. I can't seem to be up-front enough about it, but people do ask me to play for them. I just dont want to confirm a gig without knowing if/if not-a-ride. I dont need a ride for every gig, but knowing which route I'm taking is a universal difference for me. People can be very generous, texting me the night of a gig to offer a ride, but I might have already paid an old bandmate $100 and spent many hrs being responsible for it... I'd like a working relationship given my health problem, but maybe its out of the question ✌️🥁
Whoa! That's a huge challenge to overcome, and it sounds like you're making it happen successfully. I'm sure it has made you into a better communicator and negotiator. Very, very cool. Thanks for the comment, and for the kind words. Cheers and happy drumming!
The 2 out of 3 rule seems fair to me and takes some of the pressure off. Hey, if you have 2 out of the 3, you get to stay in the game. We'd all like to be 3 of 3 all of the time but 2 out of 3 still works. I like it.
I got wisdom from it wise man I'm a drummer part of me but not the only thing going but on top of the list my soul my life I'm 68 thru all the highs and lows of my life I listen to music everyday I play by ear as some musicians say
Drives me nuts at small clubs when drummers set up right in the middle of a tiny stage, especially when they know where you stand next time their kit. Thanks for the 6 x 12 inch spot on the floor where I can put my amp! And I’m going to stand where???
I encouraged my son to have bass lessons at school and he could learn to play guitar in his spare time from the theory he would get. He is, 20 years later, never out of a job. Our drummer whilst backing me on acoustic once played on a cardboard box with a twig he broke in half and I never noticed. I guard him closely as he is sought after.
I was stoked about a large kit at gigs when i was about 12, but I learned pretty quick it was overkill…that was early 80s when concert toms ruled, so 6 toms was acceptable.
I started playing in the late 80s, and massive kits were still very much in style. Especially in the hair bands that I was listening to! Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comment!
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I play professionally as both a bassist and a drummer. Most musicians don't understand the drums or can speak "drum language" to them. It's the reason why a lot of drummers are in their own world, separate from the rest of the band. A lot of musicians also don't know what to look for or listen for with a drummer and it might take time to just find out if things feel right, or not. A lot of the advice in this video is about basic professionalism. Don't be a jerk. But specifically, what I look for in a drummer is someone with a solid feel who shows he understands the various textures of each part of the song and applies appropriate and tasteful accompaniment. Then I know I'm dealing with a musician, not just a guy who plays drums.
Yes. I have an example. A few times, I've been asked to "speed up" a tune that was actually at a proper tempo and, just to check, have changed the high hat from quarter notes to eighths, or eighths to sixteenths and gotten the reply "Yeah, that's it...faster".
I've found that less is more to be the way to more gigs. Show up with a small kit, small ego, don't overplay, know your stuff and be chill and once several bands get to jam with you and have that good experience your phone will ring and ring. Especially if there are a lot of loud drummers with giant kits in your town. Also, with a smaller kit you can get in and out pretty quickly making it possible to play multiple gigs in a day
only very skilled slap bassists understand us..
When I first started playing a lot of gigs, I'd get, "Wow - a drummer who actually listens!" Still probably the best compliment I've ever gotten.
BINGO🤘🏻💪🤘🏻💪👍👍
One gripe with the drummer comment. The bassist wants a sensible amount of gear set up, but when you do a trio gig, he wants more than just 2 cymbals so he doesn't have to hear the same cymbals the entire gig. You can't have both, dude. As a gigging drummer, I don't care how a bassist feels about my cymbal array and amount; if you can't lock with my pocket then you suck as a bassist regardless of your chops. The only thing that matters between bassist and drummer is locking in together. PERIOD.
Thanks for not having to write this out my self! 💪
His comment was actually to be tasty with it weather there are two cymbals or bunch including a China and splash. He just said he doesn't wanna hear the same crash over and over every phrase. This means learn to switch up the sounds you are making or where you play them. Just different things to be aware of depending on the set up you choose
It’s a fair point. Locking the time always has to come first. Thanks for the comment!
Yes. My other pet peeve is if the Drummer has poor tempo, especially keeping slow tempos.
More Tom’s for drums is my art to the world
A quick story about playing different genres. I'm a classically-trained clarinetist and pianist, but I play contemporary styles of music, too. I play keyboard in a few local bands. One of those bands plays a combination of ska and top 40 material to play at restaurants and other venues. But one day we were approached by a local singer who does country music to ask if we could be his backup band (the gig paid $100 each), so we agreed, learned the music, and backed him up.
That would have been a good enough lesson, but a few weeks later when we were at one of our regular gigs at a pizza place, a guy comes up to us, offering us a tip, but asking if we play any country songs. Well, sure enough, we had just backed up a country singer a few weeks before so we were able to pull out one of those songs and play it to get the tip.
Nice. I love this story!
I was dependable and I had a trailer to haul the gear. Those 2 qualities kept me in the band lol.
the trailer did nt hurt better yet own the pa
Yes owning a trailer and also possibly a van #1 needed musical characteristic to be in a band. lol I really enjoy running "Front of House" for a band. Even bands that kinda well, you know suck as long as they can pay ya. lol
I did a mime of a certain person talking to another saying, “OK, he’s not the best but he has a van and a good PA system…”
Playing drums as a backup for a big artist "X", someone commented "X sang like never before this time" and it's one of the best compliments to me I could have ever heard. During rehearsals I noticed that the songs were too fast and he wasn't completely comfortable, so I tried to lower the BPMs a little compared to how they were playing them before. Being a music with many changes and no clic, for me it was quite difficult and I didn't have room to show off, but the final result was undoubtedly better. Nobody cares but I feel better :)
Sure we care, that is why we are reading the comments.
Good stuff, everyone on the floor must have felt the same even at the time if they were used to playing it faster and just went with it.
@@streamofconsciousness5826 I mean nobody in the audience cares about me or my skills, they're there for the big name and that's part of the job.
Playing drums sometimes means that if you're there and nobody noticed it's probably a good thing.
As a new drummer, I get weigh all comments and lear. From them. One thing I have lustened, read, it is Experience, doing the homework, the practice is vital for the integrity, a d do ones best not to embarrass oneself & others. This makes want to practice that much more. Thank you musicians😊❤
My unfulfilled dream was to be a musician, and I love hearing musicians tell stories about their craft.
what's stopping you from starting?
@@terrat3048 Never too late. Even if it's never more than jamming with your buddies & drinking beer in the garage, it's a helluva lotta fun. 👍
What a great conversation between two clearly seasoned professionals.
No Pay, No Play unless otherwise agreed to before the gig. In NYC, I have always asked, point blank, how much this gig pays. Up front. No codependency or avoidance language. Get the money conversation out of the way immediately. I have never had an issue with money since the 80s due to having a straightforward, forward, honest conversation right from the beginning.
Yup ask right away I did alot of gigs in the village always ask if they don't say
It's staggering that people even consider playing before they've had this conversation. If you're doing work, make sure you get paid!
BINGO! Same here! Former long-time NY musician.
@@calvinwilds46 Exactly! if they don't say the pay it probably means they are not paying at all or paying really low. No bueno! No thanks!
@@Nagroddy facts
There’s something to be said for muscle memory. I don’t bring every drum I own to a gig but I always bring my double kick even though I’m playing mostly blues rock stuff. I always believe in practice like your performing. Having my double kick slave pedal in place saves me messing around with my HH stand to get the right position even if I almost never use it. If my kit isn’t set the way I’m used to I can’t flow naturally or I’m having to concentrate on hitting the kit the right way instead of focusing on groove and feel. I’m definitely not the greatest drummer but I’ve been regularly gigging for a few years.
That's cool. I thankfully had my double kick (Tama) with me that I didn't always use or need, but the main spring decided to give up tension 3 songs in. I played the rest of the set, (and again set 2 ) sidesaddle, using the left pedal to get me through until I fixed it. 20 years, and it was the first time it ever broke. I learned one other thing too, the bass drum isn't very loud, with the left beater!
Great stuff Ryan - very informative. I am a full time keyboard player/occasional bass player, at age 60 - retired from my day job of almost 30 years... and I TOTALLY was in sync with EVERY point you made, excellent.
I played (for a short time) with a rock band with a drummer who was a percussion teacher at a local high school and who over-played like crazy, every song was like a drum solo, the rest of the band was good. I had spent some time in Nashville playing, road work, sessions, record deal etc and one day this drummer asked me if I thought he would do well in Nashville. I said “well first thing, you’ll have to cut off one of your arms”.
I'm working on another video interview with a guy who spent a decade in Nashville. You're speaking the absolute truth. Thanks for the comment!
lol thats great i cant stand drummers like that,,ya lay it down ,,ya put the fills in where they belong,,and dont speed up
A touring guitarist told me his 2 out of 3 rule. He doesn't take his guitar out of its case unless he is going to 1/Have Fun, 2/ Learn Something, or 3/Get paid.
Ya, nice one! In the video the talked about "What to expect from another person" - but this one covers "What do I expect from a gig". Love the idea. I have some other ideas, but they may pay into these categories - doing a charity thing without payment --> is maybe 1) fun or 3) a different kind of payment. Or playing a private gig for a friend - same thing. Yeah, I think it's a good idea ... thanks for sharing! Keep rockin!
Just another guitar hero…
I used to intentionally bring less toys than needed back in the day of the big double bass rock kits. It was a challenge to play 40 rock songs on a 4 piece and it makes you a better player. That could very well have been one of the best things I ever did early on as a drummer for my own development
My last touring gig a few years ago was as the bassist with the Motown group The Miracles. The band’s musicianship was off the charts good and these guys were all 3 - except the drummer. The drummer was amazing but he was constantly late for rehearsals, flights, etc and would literally roll up to rehearsals forgetting to bring his entire kit. His entire personal life was a disaster. But he was a great great player and really fun to hang out with so we put up with him! I spent years in the LA studios and most of those guys I played with had all 3 going for them. Total pros.
That was very fun to read. Thank you for watching and for the comment!
Good conversation, appreciate you posting this. One important thing I've learned over the years (and especially learned when I started learning to play a bit of bass, and really listen intently to the bassline on recordings), Is that so much of the funk and the groove in a pop/rock/r&b setting comes from the bass. Holding down a simple back beat while the bass player dances around In the space and adds syncopation...to my ears that is a beautiful thing.
Very well said!
Thank you for the encouragement...if you're out there doing it, you're doing it.
Self taught Bass Player of 40 years here..
many bands ,100's of gigs thru the yrs along my journey.....
I thank you for this kind of Vid.. I am a believer that
You can never know to much , and you shud never stop learning..
now after your video , I know more and i also learned alot..
I thank you for this.. Great Video.. Great Info...
TY,, and of course... 🤘Keep Rockn!!
Drummers are preoccupied with making things work rather than making them mean something that’s why they don’t stand out -Bill Bruford
Keith Moon would disagree with that sentiment 😂
@@michaeldeloach838 Theatrical vs Time
@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777
I understand what the quote means. I'm saying Moonie did both. That guy could start a fill in between beats in an odd spot and land it perfectly in time. His style was uniquely his own and he was an animal. A complete and utter showman. His drumming also added layers and textures to the music, all perfectly in time. He played to the guitar and vocals as much as he did to the bass. He wasn't just the drummer, he was the lead drummer. As were they all on their instruments in The Who.
Yea I would argue that, though Mr. Bruford almost certainly didn't understand Moonie's playing, it certainly fit within the confounds of that quote. Always meaning something, even possibly at the expense of making it work... And considering how similarly Jamie Muir played to Moon, maybe Bruford Did have some appreciation for his "pushing the boundaries of music". And he seems to have appreciated Moon more than his other contemporaries like Ginger Baker.
Go back and listen to your favorite bands. If you feel like the drums had no place in the parts you love , you're deluded.
I was brought up as a rock drummer, but one of my best gigs was in a country band. Since then, I've played country, rock, jazz, and show tunes. Now I play drums on my own music.
I have only played a few dozen gigs as a drummer, but here's my 2 cents...
For drum kit, use the smallest you can get away with, but add 1 or 2 things that can be clamped on or added somehow (doesn't need its own stand) that will make your kit look and sound as musical as possible (within both style of music and TASTE, of course). Small doesn't have to mean basic and boring. Extra percussion (maracas, spiral stackers, bells) can help fill in some gaps.
Know the numbers for your footprint and have that exact size of rug cut out. Practice setting up and getting off the stage quickly. Little things can make a difference, for example, replace the lug nuts with the clamp-style for your cymbals. Before you go up, assemble as much as you can off-stage if you are part of a lineup. Get off quickly and help the next band if you have time and they could use it.
Invest in a good IEM system. Install an XLR port in your bass drum and have a mic in there. Have some XLRs and lollipop mics you can hang on the guitar cabs. If you handle your own monitoring, it will be appreciated all around. Removing wedges makes the FOH sound better and makes their job easier. This might seem like overkill for small gigs, but I am always glad when I go through the trouble. I will play better for it if it sounds better to me.
This is all killer advice. Thank you!
great advice bro
All good except don’t worry about other musicians mics . If you have time, help your own band on the out.
As a drummer I play with in ears and a click. Depending on the venue it's either or. They can run my in ears or they can run my click but not both. If I can't run in ears then I just forgo the option to run a click and just run it to my in ears straight from my phone which is where my click is and just use their wedge monitor. It's great though when they can accommodate both with an incredible drum mix.
I’m a drummer and I learned early in my life most of the things you mentioned. I find this to be spot on information. I’ve been blessed to work with great players and great people. I love your outlook on the gigging process. I love how you describe the gigging musician. I play country right now but I have played many genres because my drum instructor taught me to be prepared for all music or I might never get a gig. He was right. By the way I enjoy any music when I’m working with great players. Thanks for your solid advise. This interview rejuvenated my belief and energized me for tonight’s gig. Excellent 😊
Great conversation, from a drummer for 30 plus years!
Such a great conversation and insight into what makes a band work and our lives pleasant. I'm not a musician, but provide the sound for a number of our local bands and as such get to work with a lot of great people.
Love the 2 out of 3 rule. But, generally we have a great bunch of people in the gigging music industry and I'm sure most of us wouldn't want to change what we do.
Thanks for the video, looking forward to the next one.
Thanks for watching, and for the great comment!
I loved to gig when I was younger, focused on studio work as an older musician. Life on the road is not easy on a family man. Got the call from my wife in 2004 that my first born had taken their first steps. I was in Denver and the family was in Atlanta. Kids treating me like a stranger when I was home. Three months out sometimes, missed a lot of special events with the people I was trying to support. Income was also feast or famine, it takes a special kind of person and an understanding wife. With that said, can’t imagine doing anything else for a living.
Such a critical insight. Thank you.
I never had trouble scaling down drums, can play most anything with 1 or 2 toms and single kick, however i always agonize over cymbal selection. To make myself(and everyone else) happy what i do now is setup 3 stands only, and an extension off my HH for splashes. In between sets, i quickly swap out High Hat tops, splashes, different crashes, chinas, and rides on those same 3 stands. Over 3 sets, this allows me to play just about my entire cymbal arsenal, and keeps things fresh and creative, and my sound and playing varies a bit depending on the inspiration of the setup.
That’s a great idea. Gonna have to try that! Thanks for the comment!
The lack of limitations is the enemy of creativity - good rule for drummers to follow. It isn't about how big your set is.
Most of the audience doesn't discriminate between all those cymbal sounds. I can get a million different sounds out of my ride alone...
As a younger human, I was the drummer in 3 local bands. I had pro gear, a great attitude, was fun to hang with, and also did a lot of the bookings n stuff. Notice I didn't say I was good. 😂 I was solid & played to a metronome all of the time. All of this worked in my favor, even though I wasn't the best drummer in the valley.
OH... I was also always sober at practice & gigs.
One of the best gigs I ever got was because, “You never show up drunk.”
I can tell you're both great musicians by the truth with which you speak and the absolute lack of ego present in your conversation. Thanks for this talk. You got a new subscriber from it. All the best.
Awesome video, brother! I’m 47 and haven’t played live in over 20 years, so this was packed with great insights. I just joined a Rush cover band, and while I doubt I’ll be leaving much of my kit at home for that kind of gig, I still really appreciated the conversation and the peek into the mindset of regular gigging musicians. Liked and subscribed!
Thank you!
Your axe addiction is on you man. When I was a bass player I had 1 bass, 4 strings and 3 tuners, plus 1 tiny visegrip.
I really enjoyed this banter! I will strive to be a 3 out of 3 (or an 'A' game player) - thanks for your help! Playing my first gig in 40+ years on New Year's Eve, I'll be 71 (bassist) - it's gonna be EPIC!
That is AWESOME! Congrats!
Lol, there's a drummer that I loved playing with. Good pocket, great energy, and a fun hang but he'd always be the last one to show up, get dates mixed up, forget a snare, etc. Always something but he had two out of three. 🤣🤣🤣
Hey, we got alot of gear to move compared to most musicians, but forgetting a snare is wild haha😂
@@WizardosBoz Yeah he was pretty lucky that I knew someone ten minutes away that was cool with me coming by and borrowing it.
This was great! I have learned to be prepared and pare down to what you need on gigs. I play part time (side job) in a cover band, and always have great respect for bass players.
Thank you! Great helpful conversation full of important observations on typical issues and scenarios...., and I agree, the best strive for 3 out of 3
Endorse each and every word. Cheers, gentlemen.
here's my idea . The band is a Bus drummer drives the bus, Bassist paves the road for the bus. Drummer obeys the speed limit ALWAYS Bassist makes sure he smooths the road to insure no speed bumps or pot holes. Drummer keeps the Bus moving steady and not speeding up or slowing down all the time. Bassist must know the road map ! and ensures the bus make it tothe destination never hits the ditch.
I like it!
Thank God for Cruise Control in vehicles. If there was only one for drummers as well. lol (and don't say "Drum Machine". lol)
@@johannjohann6523 most vehicles carry a drummer in the trunk
@@johannjohann6523cruise control is great until you hit black ice. How this relates to the analogy I don’t know, random jam band moments on stage?
What an awesome interview. Love the 2 out of 3 rule. I'm an "average at best" drummer not earning anything at it but the guys I play with keep saying how good I am. Not letting it get to my head but I'm able to compromise on the "what, where, how much, etc", play a small but effective kit and use a click to make sure tempo is accurate. Some might consider it cheating (click that is) but it's like turning on cruise control allowing everyone else to play the tune at the right speed including lyrics. Also, did I say I'm a "average at best" so my meter isn't perfect either...LOL! Thank you for posting this. Subscribing to the channel.
Hey Marc, I am a drummer and read your comments. Maybe you can help me. My meter is " ok " I guess, but I always look to improve it. I used metronomes that have helped over 60 years of drumming. BUT, technology totally, well I am still at the bus stop, and the bus is 3 towns past me. Way behind. So, on some tunes that I struggled with that my band plays, I could never find out what the correct bpms are. When I try to match the recordings to my metronome, it seems to change and I am always wrong. Please help, what does use a click mean, logistically for gigging? I have recorded in studios that simply put it in my headphones, but what equipment would I buy for that, and where can I find the correct tempos? Btw, my band plays classic rock. Thanks
@@steverichdrummr Tama Rhytm track is a drummers best friend. Easy to use made for drummers for both rehearsel and live performances. Just make sure you get good earphones so you can hear the click. A game changer for me.
@@steverichdrummr Hey Steve. Like Robert mentions, the Tama unit I'm sure is great although I've never used it. TBH, I use an app on my phone called Metronome Beats Pro. I chose to pay the 1 time small fee at the beginning because then I get access to building setlists. I use a website called "Find the BPM" to figure out what the original tempo is. From there, sometimes the band wants it a little faster so easy adjusment. If you're able to comment on the RUclips video, I'm sure you can do these things... . Good set of earphones helps but again, I use my regular bluetooth earbuds and adjust the volume. Probably helps I play an acoustic kit that's been converted to electronic with mesh heads so my quieter.
Getting used to the click with a band was the biggest adjustment but once I did, loved it.
Let me know if this helped and if you have any other questions.
Cheers
I’ve only been in garage/living room bands, and finding a drummer who could play AND owned a kit was always as far as I/we got. Last time out a friend and I were about to put a drummer wanted ad out there when we lost our rehearsal space. We had to give up our rock n roll dreams. Too much gray hair and real life got in the way. Still have my gear, never have time to even noodle around. Rock on!
Never say never, man! Thanks for the comment!
I needed this, I've been working hard on bass for the last 10 years. At 61, doing quite a few fill in gigs for some local cover bands and doing lots of songs at the Big Beaver Studio. This video validated all my hard work and persistence. I'm out there doing stuff and getting paid.
LOVE IT!!! Keep up the good work!
Fantastic glimpse into the world of playing gigs and being a professional musician in all aspects. I'm a pretty new drummer, really only in it for my own enjoyment, so I "likely" won't ever play a gig. However, this discussion series is of great value to me. First, I may one day end up on a tiny, dark stage in the corner somewhere, but more importantly, I have a bunch of friends who are awesome professional musicians and this helps me understand so much more what they have to do, go through, and endure as they entertain the masses. Looking forward to the next video in this series!
You never know! Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comment!
With that attitude, I do see plenty of gigs in your future. Don't give up or rule it out, you've got this.
Top notch insights on every level. Thanks very much for posting this video.
Love this video covering the "soft-skill-side" - most musicians 1) don't understand this or 2) doing this subconsciously. On most points I just thought "Yeah, exactly!" and there were also some things I said "Nice one, need to think about it!" Best video I've seen for weeks on youtube. Was also fun to watch you talking. So this video get's 3 out of 3: 1) You're good on content and presentation, 2) you've been prepared or did the video-job done great and 3) you raised my sprit, was fun watching you. Will share with other friends / musicians and check out your channel.
Thanks for doing this video! best regards, Stefan
Hi Stefan. Thank you so much for watching, sharing, subscribing, and commenting! I'm grateful that you found some value in it. I'm mostly just talking about things that I have seen many times with students and less experienced players. See you on the next one.
Very inspirational and good to listen. Great questions and answers 👏
That bonus tip just absolutely cracked me up! Just flip off the snares lol
I remember forgetting to flip off my snares and sneaking back up from behind the stage to turn them off then hiding behind the kick drum until the next break to avoid disturbing the show any more than I had to.
Great interview!!! Loved it! So informative and TRUE!!
Love that 2 out of 3 rule and have experienced it myself already. And guess what one of the forst things I learned on the drums was: To turn of that snare...
Many thanks to Ryan and you for these insights!
Thanks again for watching! YES about the snares. I teach that all the time. I’m glad he brought it up.
@@CommonSenseMusician I was told to turn off the snare whenever it´s not in use. So it won't rattle and annoy everyone but it also takes the tension off. And that also makes sense in a long term.
Makes me think of another 2 out of 3 rule for taking a gig. 1) Does it pay well? 2) Will I learn something? 3) Will it be fun?
8:00 I have a John in my life. Such a mess with remembering to message back and so chaotic. But suuuuch a joy of a human being and a gorgeous player, I'll happily take on the extra mental overhead of keeping him organised if it means I get to play with him
as an amateur drummer your two out of three rule is true at my level also....good stuff!
I play in a 7 piece Allman brothers, tedeschi- trucks Derek and the Dominoes cover band and bring whatever fits the stage. If there’s room for my riser I use it. I’ve always said that I play for free and get paid to travel
More stickers for both.. and generous extras!🥁
I really enjoyed this interview and agree w the 3/3 rule.
The cartage tip is amazing! So is 'the cap on free things'
Agreed. Adding those to my arsenal for sure.
Very useful advice, esp for an old basement drummer in his 70s! Thank you. Will hone my 2/3. And figure out how to do the meet & greet. I'm a few decades behind...
Never too late. Go have some fun!
As a Hoosier who lives right down the road from Purdue Fort Wayne, I hope to see you at a gig sometime. You seem to be someone I would want as a neighbor. Safe travels!
I'm not a gigging drummer yet, but great tips.
Hello from France ! I'm a young drummer and I'm a 2/3 guy, still need to work on my click to be able to improvise on it. I already know and apply most of the points of your video and discover some things about money. So thanks for your content, it makes me want to always get better at music !
Thank you for your comment! So glad that this video was helpful. Keep up the drumming. It sounds like you are doing great!
@@CommonSenseMusician thanks ! I think so too, my main band is about to release it's first single so I think I'm on the right way !
Thank you for this conversation, fantastic content and a very humble person, great dude. Keep on bringing working guys to your channel, the community enjoys every minute.
Thanks for watching! Very glad you’re enjoying it.
Yeah, I agree that there is a different mentality for your band versus hired player. If I am doing original music, I will make my set one way (maybe complicated), but if I'm in a set situation, I will bring the bare minimum.
I nailed two out of the three things needed to keep a gig. I was never a great drummer so I tried to make up for it in every way I could. I never got beyond the entry level cover band stage but I have what it takes to be processional and do my part. However, the inability to deal with mediocre musician's egos was not one of my skills so all I can do is listen , love and learn from the sidelines :)
This was a great video for me because I already know all these things and they seem like common sense/ common knowledge.
Great interview. Well worth the time.
I started out playing drums as a teenager, bringing alot of gear. Later i realised i can play the same things with less gear, you just need to know how the drums work, how they sound when hitting the cymbals in different spots. Same musical effect can be achieved with a small kit as with a big kit.
Great stuff! Definitely going to try and use that bit about doing a favor rather than play for not much bread. It just feels better when you've been able to do that for someone. And, the other part about having a threshold for how much of that stuff you're willing to do... setting boundaries. What a smart way to frame it. I hope there's more convos like this one on your channel. Just stumbled across this one scrolling my feed. I have a channel too, EmergencyDrummer. Cheers!
Definitely checking out your channel! There are a few more of these coming in this series, and more in the future. Thanks for the comment!
Regarding “Making it or not”, I’ve been a working local musician for 55 years. I learned early that being the big star means, you’re either the writer of a hit song or a singer who’s been discovered. Since I play cover songs and sing, I’m happy playing and singing and have had no expectations for anything else. I get paid a reasonable rate and love doing it.
Love this. Thank you for the comment.
this is the guy drummers slapped around in high school
It would be their loss if they did.
you’d have experience with that, wouldn’t you
Great conversation. It’s not even brutally honest, these are facts that every musician ( not just drummers) should be professional meaning being prepared, reliable , respectful and being a team player in order to have an awesome gig or show. In terms of talent fee just ask the person who hires you in a respectful manner and when you say yes to the gig then commit to it. Other than my opinion Ryan nailed those pointers and tips.
Thanks for the comment!
Love this! Not a drummer but great insights. Lokal Grown was an influence on us back in the day, you guys were awesome!
Oh, man! Thank you! Thanks for watching, and thanks for commenting.
Great interview!
Thanks!
Great Conversation!!!!!!! Love it!!
Great interview…. Gigging drummer for 20 + . My drums are my family….certain gigs require certain « family members « with you, according to the gig style & the room. On time ; quality gear
All the things. Great to listen to amazing musicians talk about the craft.
I play bass. I love how this is back and forth. I love the "two out of three" rule. Be a good hang is the most important. If you nail that you have a chance without the other two while you are learning. It is the most important rule. A reliable shredder will not last unless that person is booking the gigs, or the rest of the band is insecure.
As a drummer myself, I understand that a good drummer will have, above all else, a solid pocket groove and also an understanding of dynamics, only playing what the song needs, and a less is more attitude. Many of you will agree, in theory. But some of the greatest drummers on the rock side who embody these qualities are often the most overlooked in the "greatest rock drummer" lists. Drummers like Charlie Watts, Ringo Starr, Nick Mason, and Phil Rudd. All masters of the solid pocket, less is more style. It's the flashy drummers that overplay and stand out that get all the attention. That's why so many drummers try to emulate them.
I agree with what they said. Mostly.
I’m a bassist. I play with a few drummers who have a great pocket. Brings the kit that the music/venue would support.
I never criticize my fellow musicians.
Most musicians especially drummers know what the gig is and bring what is needed.
Especially if there are a lot of stairs.
My pet peeve is the musicians noodle around during soundcheck. And after when the house music is on before the show starts or during break.
I think you should set up have mini test of your instrument then off stage until it is time to start.
No playing while break music is playing.
Side note. Players should know their parts as best as possible.
Do not play the same part as the bass player etc. unless it’s on the recording.
Including keyboards
Especially guitar players.
Thanks for this, enjoyed both of your comments and conversations!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for sharing and I can say I agree with everything u mentioned...awsome
Entry level drummer here.
I'm not showing up to satisfy anyone's ego. I play for fun. Let's have a laugh, let's get the folks up and dancing. Audience only knows a good time. Dont have to play perfectly , they will identify the tune and fill in the blanks, if the band is getting along. They can sense it.
BTW, our university jazz alumni just did a wonderful jam session with 2 whole cymbals on the kit. And yes it was tasty.
I have played Professional Drumming in younger days travelling all over the country and parts of Europe.. .I also got a Full -time job at the age of 36 at a Transportation co. ( Buses) I love the analogy with the Bass / Drummer How they relate to the Band !! He is absolutely correct !!
Great conversation here. Another real challenging gig is being on a cruise ship contract. Aside from living in the same place you work with virtually no days off, you’re extremely if not completely limited on personal gear, you play with different people all the time, you have no schedule; if you’re needed to sub for someone you get the call and are expected to be dressed and present within 10 minutes with absolutely no idea of what genre the set is. Often playing 4 times in one day. Not only that but what really threw me was the amount of sight reading we did, with zero rehearsal, day in and day out. You learn to fit in. But you never get to “go home” after the night. Finding space and time to actually practice is incredibly frustrating too. You’re also elbow to elbow with all different nationalities, sometimes language barriers…. so you just have to speak the universal language of music and make it work. When you’re playing, you smile and if the guests dance and tap their feet….. it’s a good set.
I’ve never played cruise ships, but your story sounds intense. I have heard that it’s a great education in a lot of ways. Thanks for the comment!
The great Ryan Tilby… rock on, and thanks for the tips. Folks, don’t question tips from a pro who has been on every kind of stage for thousands of gigs. It’s true too and I might add that if the hang is that awful on tour, it might overshadow chops and dependability. All three things play a part.
I have always only taken what I need. Never more or less. I let my drum setup, tuning sound & how I play talk for my level of being an amateur drummer. & I can honestly say I’m good enuff to play & I do hold on to my bands & the gigs. On time & play what the song needs with the band.
Nice. Sounds like a very practical and logical approach. Thanks for the comment!
Bass player here. Semi-related gripe for other bassists. Stop smacking the strings on 2 and 4 unless you’re playing without a drummer. I get it, you’re feeling the groove. But good drummers adjust where they place their snare hits. If he parks it behind the beat and your smack is ahead or on it, all we get is slop. 2 and 4 is his job. Don’t try to do it for him. End rant
Yes that is really annoying.
Great discussion.I learned a lot watching this!
Great conversation Great inf, agreed 100% , im a drummer from very long time (47), now im basically recording for a Band and i Love it arts are not sports in my humble opinion nobody is "the best" , here's nor a competition, what you do is unique and come directly from your Soul and your Heart, there's no way to challenge that, same as u can tell a kid that his drawing isnt good enough or worse than others if he or she really is really talented on that or any other art
Lot of hate on the monsterkit for obvious reasons. But there are really shows where it adds a dimension to the whole show. Big powerful songs like Diana Ross's, or in the air tonight by Phil Collins, getting that Epicness from having 5+ toms makes it sound bigger for me.
No argument here. The megakit exists for a reason, and the players you mentioned wield it very, very well. Thanks for the comment!
Now idea who these two gents are, just stumble into this vid, but some real wisdom in here.
Thank you! Nice flow, content flying along 😊
I've been a pretty busy, touring drummer at different times but started having seizures in my 20s so obviously I'm not driving anymore. It's really hard, but I've been in some more bands and recorded, etc. Only one seizure onstage after yrs with it.
I try to be clear up front (and fun+cheerful heh) that I'm sick and can't drive, and I can get myself to gigs, have a good network, but a ride w'gear from a band is 500x easier for me. I do what I can, and I've gotten myself to a lot of gigs since this started. Just a bit limited in my resources for last-minute gigs, outta town etc. without transp.
Maybe I shouldn't be trying so hard LOL. I can't seem to be up-front enough about it, but people do ask me to play for them. I just dont want to confirm a gig without knowing if/if not-a-ride. I dont need a ride for every gig, but knowing which route I'm taking is a universal difference for me. People can be very generous, texting me the night of a gig to offer a ride, but I might have already paid an old bandmate $100 and spent many hrs being responsible for it... I'd like a working relationship given my health problem, but maybe its out of the question ✌️🥁
Whoa! That's a huge challenge to overcome, and it sounds like you're making it happen successfully. I'm sure it has made you into a better communicator and negotiator. Very, very cool. Thanks for the comment, and for the kind words. Cheers and happy drumming!
The 2 out of 3 rule seems fair to me and takes some of the pressure off. Hey, if you have 2 out of the 3, you get to stay in the game. We'd all like to be 3 of 3 all of the time but 2 out of 3 still works. I like it.
I got wisdom from it wise man I'm a drummer part of me but not the only thing going but on top of the list my soul my life I'm 68 thru all the highs and lows of my life I listen to music everyday I play by ear as some musicians say
Drives me nuts at small clubs when drummers set up right in the middle of a tiny stage, especially when they know where you stand next time their kit. Thanks for the 6 x 12 inch spot on the floor where I can put my amp! And I’m going to stand where???
True I have played with drummers that think the stage is all theirs. I like to be comfy on stage too. Damn princesses
Better communication with ur Bandmates will solve that with a quickness
Muchas gracias por esta conversación, hay mucho por aprender!
a lot of great stuff here!
Good advice for any musician/instrument
Cool interview, very insightful.
I encouraged my son to have bass lessons at school and he could learn to play guitar in his spare time from the theory he would get. He is, 20 years later, never out of a job. Our drummer whilst backing me on acoustic once played on a cardboard box with a twig he broke in half and I never noticed. I guard him closely as he is sought after.
Drummers who can improvise their instruments (and ON their instruments) have an advantage!
Love'n every minute of it!
2/3 guideline is so right on .. there's a lot of excellent musicians I won't play with bc I just don't wanna deal with them.
Excellent discussion!
Nice interview!
I was stoked about a large kit at gigs when i was about 12, but I learned pretty quick it was overkill…that was early 80s when concert toms ruled, so 6 toms was acceptable.
I started playing in the late 80s, and massive kits were still very much in style. Especially in the hair bands that I was listening to! Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comment!
WoW I’ve got the three qualitys too !
Great conversation!