Excellent video Marc! As a longtime Minwax woodworker, you've convinced me to branch out a bit. Another note on the Bloxygen, having a can around is an easy solution, but there's other alternatives that most shops already have on hand. Welding gas from either Mig or Tig is straight argon or an argon/CO2 mix. Propane is also heavier than air, and a quick burst from an unlit torch does the same thing. You can also make your own CO2 dirt cheap with a little baking soda and vinegar - let it bubble a bit in a separate container, and then pour the invisible gas into the can.
I always love your tests and shootouts! I think I trust your opinion and viewpoint on these things more than anybody else when it comes to woodworking.
The Wood Whisperer this would make a great annual series follow up. It would be great to see how these hold up year after year. Especially clarity, yellowing and if the finishes hold together.
You must be a psychic fortune teller, Marc. As I was watching your video, I was asking myself how easily would the damage be to repair, and then you went and showed exactly that. Bravo, sir. You are still the master.
I used the ARm R Seal on a cherry wall shelf with 2 drawers. I loved the way that it brought out the characteristics of the grain and gum pockets without bloching. The reflection was also really cool. I loved it. Usually I shellac everything.
I think the Minwax & Arm-R-Seal are the real winners here, imho. Just a nitpick on sanding between coats, regardless of the finish being applied, this is just me, but just after vacuuming off the surface, I immediately wipe it down with a well wrung out damp cloth, ( I use the H/D cotton blue ones, available most everywhere. ) It never fails to amaze me just how much dust was still on the wood's surface after vacuuming! Then & only then, the next coat gets applied. This is by far the best comparison test I've ever seen, well done Marc! I very recently finished up laying down 7" white pine shiplap ( 70 sf. ) horizontally on my workshop walls, 41" down from the above floor joices leaving a 1/8" gap above my 30" tall workbenches. I have on hand 3/4's of a qt. of Minwax oil based Clear Satin Poly & I plan on applying my 1st & only coat, hopefully, on a small section off by itself to see how it looks. I have never used the Minwax Wipe On Poly, but I will have a go with this product in all eventualities! Thank you for the excellent presentation btw, Bill on the Hill... :-)
I know this is NOT relative to your "Wiping Varnish Shootout" video, but recently, while searching for info on Poly over Shellac, I found your 2010 waxed/dewaxed under poly video and it was exactly what I was looking for. And now I feel I can comfortably put a poly coat OVER my dewaxed spray-on shellac. THANKS, very much!
Thank you for your help with choosing a good finish. I don't do fine woodworking projects but the stuff that I do I want to look good. Thank you for your time. I did get the help I needed to select a good finish. One of my old timer friends once told me that if you put the lid on tight and store the can upside down the content doesn't seal off the top. But the harden layer when upright and open is then on the bottom of the can.
Time for a little geek info: One thing to note is that Waterlox is a phenolic resin mixed with tung oil the other two are a polyurethane. There is a third type which is an alkyd varnish but is more expensive and difficult to find. The polyurethanes have always been known for their great abrasion resistance, increased hardness, (think tungsten carbide which is subject to chipping) and thus have been traditionally used on floors. The phenolic resin and Tung oil finish that Waterlox uses is known to be "tougher" (Think O1 tool steel which you can lap to a really sharp edge, will flex and not chip, dulls faster) it is also easier to rub out the final even finish which is not easily done with polyurethanes. Not to be the the experiment critic... but I found it interesting that Marc decided on using veneered plywood rather than solid wood for testing purposes... I do believe that this automatically puts the Waterlox at a disadvantage because by nature the phenolic finishes are to be absorbed much deeper into the wood than polyurethanes and provide a type of flexible backbone to the fibers of the wood. This is why you saw the wood absorbing so much more Waterlox in the demonstration. Now if there is only 1/42" of an inch of veneer for the phenolic resin to absorb into then a barrier of adhesive between the veneer and substrate this may prevent the Waterlox from performing the way it was meant to perform which may have been why the Waterlox sealer failed the first water test which it really should excel at... Theoretically in summary Waterlox will not nearly have the scratch resistance of polyurethanes such as arm-r-seal but when they do occur they should be less noticeable and more easily repairable than an equivalent scratch on poly. What this test showed was how each of these finishes performed on plywood but not wood but that might just be splitting hairs. These are great videos and are a tremendous contribution to the woodworking community. I recognize the amount of time and effort that goes into putting these together so thanks and keep up the good work!!
+Aaron Carter thanks Aaron. Just to address your concern, finishes don’t really absorb as deep as people think they do. Most of the time it’s a “skin-deep” penetration. Even though I used plywood, the Waterlox took more coats to achieve the same finish quality as the others. So the veneer was absorbing plenty of finish and probably took up as much as solid wood would have. If solid wood actually absorbs MORE of the stuff than this plywood did, I’d call that a total fail simply because you’d have to buy 2-3 times as much finish just to get a decent appearance. So I can't say for sure because I didn't run the tests, but I have no reason to believe the Waterlox would have done any better on a solid substrate.
The Wood Whisperer Thanks for the response. That is fair enough, I mean I will have to pull out the ol' electron microscope and take a peek at some cross section of each finish to confirm... Haha I just hope cremona is getting some of that GF kickback money. Jk
Very helpful comparison! My compliments on VG production values, and that you don't drag in irrelevant "funny" video clips afflicting so many of other sites.
I only use Minnwax Wipe-On poly. It protects very well from water stains because it is polyurethane. I need to apply many coats (up to 8) for a glass like surface but it goes on very quickly. My method is sand to 120 grit, apply three coats at least 3 hours apart then sand with a 220 grit 3M sponge. You'll know it's dry when the dust is a fine white powder. I find this works best as sanding after the 1st and second coats still has fibers sticking up. Thee coats pretty much locks the fibers in place and sanding removes them. The fourth coats glides on smoothly. After I sand, I use ethanol to wipe up dust because mineral spirits can take a while to dry and it stinks. Depending on how rough the surface is after 4 coats, I may or may not sand until prior to the last coat, where I sand with a 3M 320 sponge. The final finish looks like sprayed lacquer but much tougher. Tip: To minimize fiber from giving a very rough feel after 3 coats, apply the Wipe-On poly perpendicular to the wood grain or in a circular motion with an all cotton rag. This seems like an issue more with plywood veneers than solid wood. Some synthetic rags are like microfiber cloth and it grabs wood fibers like crazy, making application of the first few coats difficult and could leave rag fibers in the coating.
Hi Marc, I just watched this. Still very relevant despite the time that has elapsed. You are good at what you do and I'm glad you can support your family doing it.
The first gallon of Arm R Seal I ever got skimmed up within a few months between projects. It was in the plastic gallon container with screw on lid. I couldn't believe it. I think I will go back to the Arm R Seal now that I know about the Bloxygen. Thanks Marc.
Arm-R-Seal Satin is my go-to nowadays. Less sticky to apply than the Minwax Wipe-On Poly, heavier duty than Watco Danish Oil. The color is amazing. It made a toybox I built out of Douglas Fir just glow. Really hard to screw it up.
What a great video. Well edited, information dense, yet perfectly easy to follow, and good comparison of products. I learned a lot in very little time. Even the Bloxygen ad was well explained and made me want to buy the product. I built a dresser and bookshelf from red oak plywood, which I finished with Minwax. I built a night stand with the left over plywood, which I will try finishing with Arm-r-Seal. Thanks again for the video.
Thank you for this video. I have recently refinished my cherry dining table. Strip it the citri-strip. Initially I applied waterlox sealer, four coats, it seamed very glossy, almost like marine varnish and I could not get rid of the shadow scratches from the 600 grit used between coats. I let it dry for a month then rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and wool lube, it looked nice but could still see scratch marks. I love the clarity of waterlox but I think it is too soft. I stripped it again and am now on my 3rd coat of Arm R Seal Gloss. It is coming together nicely. Unlike the review I actually think I have less build with Arm R Seal, the wood looks more natural and I can see the rings in the grain, which I like. May do one more coat of gloss to really smooth it out, knock it down with a white pad then add a top coat of satin. I use foam brushes because I always get streaks when I wipe any finish on. The other huge difference in the products is the smell, waterlox is overpowering when it is setting up, Arm R Seal has a kind of walnut oil smell.
Great video Mark! I have always been told G.F. was the best and you just proved it. You are a great source of woodworking knowledge, please keep it up!
Marc, this has to be one of your best videos! Really enjoyed you giving your opinion. Im sure most of us like myself use minwax from walmart because we are broke and have mouths to feed. I had no idea there were other finishes out there and look forward to trying new ones now! Your editing skills on this video where top notch... Few will probably realize you spent many many hours editing this... It came out awesome dude. -Brian
This was awesome.....I always thought the General Finishes Top Coat would be more expensive. Thanks for the tip on Bloxygen. I don't work with wood that much but in the future I can probably avoid buying new over and over. Thanks again for keeping in in the "Tip Loop".
This is a very thorough, clear and amazing demonstration. I'm a beginner and your video really is a significant help to my knowledge about finishes. Thank you!
Another good and informative video. But believe it or not, I got the most usefulness out of the in-video ad for Bloxygen. Really cool-looking stuff. I'll definitely have to pick some up.
Marc, It doesn't matter that your tests were not conducted according to high scientific standards. You did exactly the same thing any of us would likely do if we were going to compare and contrast products. None of us is geared up for running an experiment with lots of samples and analyzing them with high tech diagnostic apparatuses. Thanks a lot, Russ(Mid-Michigan Woodworker's Guild, mmwg.org)
Been looking at which finish to use and found this video again. I have watched it a few times now, depending on what I am wanting to do I keep coming back to it for info. Thank you for making a great, informative video.
Thanks for getting back...I was hoping to use the Matte over some new spar varnish on Adirondacks to create that kind of finish...I will call the Epiphanes folks tomorrow...I am hoping to use it...
Wow, tons of really useful info in this one. Arm-R-Seal has been my go-to for a while, but it really seems like the differences are pretty small. Thanks, Marc!
Very thorough methods. You are now the FinishWhisperer. Thanks! The only regret i have is something you have no fault in. In the Netherlands, its other products, brands, names etc. I just hope some Dutch woodworker would do something similar, or collab with me to get it done. No time to go it alone here. That bloxygen is cool. The search is on!
Marc, you are one creative son of a gun! But man this was pretty scientific in my opinion. Hypothesis aside you began with baselines and made comparative results as evidenced by observation and under the same controlled conditions. You have videos and documented data. Doesn't get more scientifically practical than that. To the wood working world this is very scientific since the average joe will not do this. The wood whisperer: where science, technology and education meet. Thanks for everything you and Nicole do.
And...this is why you're my favorite woodworking content creator. Always bringing extremely helpful and practical information yet keeping it entertaining. In my opinion, a general all purpose well rounded finish is Arm-r-Seal. Like you said, there may be specific instances where you'd use Waterlox. You did a great job of capturing the images and angles of the surfaces. It's very difficult to accurately replicate what you see in person. It would be great to see a similar durability test of water based finished as well. But I know that not everyone likes the look of a water based poly.
Great comparison. I usually use pre cat lacquer for most things now. But sometimes customers want something extremely glossy and that's when I'll choose a wipe on varnish. The only thing I do differently is, I spray the final coat via hvlp
I put waterlox on my kitchen countertops, and bathroom vanity. Anytime it gets wet baking soda on it, it leaves dark spots. Not sure why. But, I don't plan on ever using it again. As I use baking soda a lot for cleaning.
I can only imagine how many times you've said "Pencil lines on the surface help me gauge my sanding progress" or a similar statement. Admittedly after watching your videos I do it now too. Thanks for the tip over the years lol
Huge thank you fir this video, Marc. Totally love how thorough your test program was and the way you presented the results was clear and precise. Simply outstanding.
Excellent comparison. As a side note, I bought a bottle of Bloxygen about 2 years ago and then forgot I had it. Gonna have to stick it out in plain view so I'll actually use it next time I open a can of something.
Great comparison; I recently used the Arm R Seal, really like it, & was surprised how little color it has which could be a bonus on light colored woods.
Thanks for doing this comparison. I'm making birdseye maple veneered bookshelf speakers that will be framed with chamfered strips of bubinga. Those corners are going to be a trick... I've been searching for a finish that adds more color and pop than say a water based poly, but I've been trying to stay away from any drastic yellowing or ambering of the maple. I picked up a can of Waterlox and while it looks great, it turned out to add more amber than I'm looking for. Testing out satin Arm-R-Seal next, fingers crossed. And thanks to you and your sponsor on this one, I ran out and picked up a can of Bloxygen after I bought that expensive quart of Waterlox!
The acetone treatment left a pretty cool pattern on the Waterlox sealer. It might be interesting to fill the exposed grain with a coloured wax then go back over with another topcoat
Next time you do a comparative review of finishes try to include a review of stand oil - I would be curious to see the results. For your viewers, stand oil is purified linseed oil heated to 500 degrees in a vacuum for 24 hours and has no chemical dryers like boiled linseed oil. The result is a very clear viscous, waterproof and tough finish that doesn't yellow. It is "one of" the ingredients in Tru-oil (Tru-oil is not pure stand oil). It's used mostly by artists and retails for about $14 for a 16oz bottle in artist's supply store. Keep up the good work.
Thanks. Quick question 0:13 Minwax wipe on poly, is it safe to have prolong or repeated bare skin physical contacts with the finish once dried ? In other words, is the dried/cured finish poisonous/cancerous to bare skin physical contact ?
+EvanAndKatelyn it's still very rough at this point. I'll refine it a bit more when I have time. But it's an excel spreadsheet so feel free to modify it to your liking.
FYI, I changed the link to an actual live Google spreadsheet. Feel free to download it to your computer if you wish. I added some color coding to denote "best" and "worst" performance where applicable. Some test can't be interpreted simply as best and worst so those get no color. This should help.
Awesome, that's a great idea! That way the document is always up to date :D I copied and edited it some and emailed it to your marketing address in case you were interested. Just a few cosmetic changes really
Great video comparison. Even though I'd already made my choice and applied the finish, this video helped me to feel good about my pick for the long run.
5 Stars for a well thought-out and useful experiment. I have used the Minwax product, but I am going to give the General Finishes a try now too. I didn't believe it when you said argon was heavier than water vapor, so I looked it up. You were right!
In the extreme low humidity, high temperatures of Chandler , Az, I had considerable difficulty working to a wet edge on a large dining table top using Minwax. It just dries so darn fast
Mark, nice job of doing the finish comparison! I have used Min Wax for years as a wipe on finish with good results, but will give Arm R Seal a try in the future. Welcome to Denver, enjoy your videos!
Thank you. We are a small, made in the USA company, and sponsoring this was a reach for us. Marc's fans, however, are great and the response has been excellent! I hope you'll see us more!
Thanks, Marc! Great comparison. I've used the Minwax and Arm-R-Seal products (satin, in both cases). Both worked great, but I prefer the Arm-R-Seal. It added less color to the finished project and seemed a little easier to apply. Just for fun, I may try a Waterlox product next before I settle on a favorite.
I'm about to buy Waterlox sealer VOC for a solid Walnut door for my laundry room. Heard to use the WL sealer for at least 3 coats then the final finish coat do the Waterlox Satin finish. I'm definitely not looking for glossy on my door, and most definitely not on the island top once we order it. I stained my walnut last night with General Finishes American Walnut, so by the time I get working on the Waterlox, it would already be 24 hours. Thanks for posting the comparisons. If this finish works out, I will do the same on a large island Walnut countertop once we purchase it.
The Waterlox Satin Sealer is not meant to be used alone, but in conjunction with the Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish (The directions on Waterlox Satin Finish state this). You may have not gotten an accurate representation with the Waterlox because of that.
Thank you for making this video! As a wood working newb, understanding finishes has been one of the hardest pieces of the puzzle. I think I might need to buy a book on finishes next...🤔 PS - Including the prices was incredibly valuable. Love tangle details like that.
Well done and the best one for me is a can of Minwax semi and satin which I got for free as the person was going to take it to recycle. One thing not covered is if you run out of one and happen to have another can of something different can you put one on top of another?
Love the Bloxygen, saves me a ton of money. Just be sure to write "NOT EMPTY " on the can. My wife thru out a new can because it feels empty. It works as advertised.
I think seeing these real world tests side by side were fantastic. I just finished a table last night with a final coat of Arm-R-Seal so I was interested to see how it compared. Good news as you say....they are all pretty good, and for me I used the least expensive product....which is not nearly as inexpensive as it was 6 years ago. :-(
We had to replace our flooring with t&g pine flooring. I really don’t want to use polyurethane because it chips and you have to sand all of it to repair.. so we are thinking waterlox but they say to do 3/4 coats and then Top coat...pretty expensive. So is arm r seal similar to waterlox? Is urethane the same as poly? I really don’t want blotching like the waterlox did to the birch.
Question I’m a homebrew as well as a woodworker. I have a ample amount of Co2 gas for force carbonation of beer. I often use the gas while transferring beer to create a blanket on the bottom of the keg to prevent the beer from oxidation seeing that Co2 is heavier than air. Could I use Co2 as a blanket for my oil based finishes?
I’m making big bass marimba bars (percussion instrument that will be struck thousands of times with a medium-hard mallet and will vibrate like crazy over and over and over). Traditionally they finished with oils and waxes, though I want to experiment with other stuff. For my experiment phase-in order of best to worst-can you please suggest/brainstorm what you think might work out for coating/sealing wooden bars that will be taking a lot of inherent abuse? With all the beating and vibrating, for instance, might shellac or lacquer or polyurethane or wood hardener or a wiping varnish, or an acrylic poor be too brittle, resulting in getting rattled and crushed to death and breaking apart microscopically over time? Also consider which finish would be the most scratch resistant. (Bars will be stored in stacks and slid against each other with the potential of dirt and sand bits in between. Thanks for brainstorming with me 👍🏻
Thanks for the comparison review, Mark, very informative. One thing I would add is that Waterlox is food safe after curing, so you can use it on salad bowls, etc.
From my past 3 years of experience Waterlox sealer is the best for darker wood but it yellows too much for my taste for any lighter wood (maple, ash, white oak), Arm-R-Seal is good for lighter wood.
I'm building a Cedar porch swing and it's going to be catching all the afternoon sun. I live in Central N.C. some the weather is changing buy the hour almost. I want to keep that beautiful Cedar color, but at the same time I want the best protective finish from the sunlight and the blowing rain, what would you choose....someone said use a Marine Spar varnish, but I just don't know....any info you can give would be helpful.
Question: On a raised letter sign (non-smooth surface) can I apply a second coat of varnish without sanding if I apply the second coat before the first coat dries?
I'm curious what you define as "standard hand pressure" for writing. Maybe I'm just super gentle when I write, but I've literally never left an impression in wood after writing on it.
Thanks so much for the video. You know how long I had to look to find someone to talk about how writing indents ruin a finish? Forever. Is there a finish of choice for a tabletop to give the best protection from writing indents?
Very good video! I especially liked the end when you repaired the damage with sanding and another coat. I have used Minwax for many years and it works very well. Last summer, I tried Watco wipe-on poly and it was awful. The cans used by Watco are the push-twist type and that is also a negative because resealing is not a guarantee.
My counter tops are live edge pine. I don't know what finish was used but it is peeling, if you sit anything you get raised rings. I even have some mildew where a water pitcher leaked through a towel, I love my counter tops but don't know what to do now and I have to be able to use my kitchen. I am guessing I will have to sand and reseal, any advise? Thanks
Mostly from watching this vid, I got into Arm-R-Seal. It's incredibly durable, beautiful, and it can be wiped on, yet only really needs 3 coats. The can also lasts for years after opening without solidifying - no fancy spray aerosol Bloxygen needed. I just opened a half-used quart can that is about 2 yrs old and it looks and acts like new. Someone (ahem) did spill some nail polish remover on the teak table and that definitely damaged it, but reparable. Not sure what could beat it. Sure seemed like the clear winner in these tests. Only thing is it's not very fast drying.
Hi. I mistakenly used Polyacrylic instead of water based polyurethane on a butcher block counter top (Lowe's had it sitting right next to their oil based polyurethane). Now, months later, the paper from boxes, like cereal or popcorn, sticks to the polyacrylic. I then have to scrape the paper free. How can I fix this?
Mark thank you so much for this video. Finishes are tough to decide. I'm Def gonna try armer seal And a cool trick I learned is to save spray can tips : After I use one I take off the cap and put it on a can of wd40 and squirt it a few times. works like a charm. them I mark the can with blue tape to remind myself #1 it's used and #2 to remind me to spray it into a garbage can first to get rid of the wd40 left in the tip. thanks again
Very useful technique for clearing out tips. I personally use Mohawk's No Blush Plus Retarder (basically just a can of solvent) because it's what I have on hand. And, yes, always spray away from the piece first. In addition to clearing out your solvent, it gives you a good chance to notice that maybe you didn't clear out the tip, and you've got a bunch of crusted on finish to clean off if you don't want splatter all over your project.
I understand this was intended to test these specific products as they stand alone.... Given what we know was coming with the birch, one could simply first seal the birch with a 1/2lb cut of blond shellac. Given that some of these are poly based - its probably best to go with dewaxed shellac. The Waterlox sealer - wants to seal that birch, in this case perhaps to a fault. I've used waterlox sealant on some objects I turned in Cherry- no blotches
I’m about to make a dinning table with the shou Sugi ban method with a pretty heavy burn. Can decide what top coat to use. I’m leaning toward the arm r seal but I have no experience with any of them. I’ll have a rough grain texture on the surface and something that would level it off would be nice but not nessecary. I don’t want to go with epoxy. In your experience is there one better suited for this use?
Excellent video Marc! As a longtime Minwax woodworker, you've convinced me to branch out a bit.
Another note on the Bloxygen, having a can around is an easy solution, but there's other alternatives that most shops already have on hand. Welding gas from either Mig or Tig is straight argon or an argon/CO2 mix. Propane is also heavier than air, and a quick burst from an unlit torch does the same thing. You can also make your own CO2 dirt cheap with a little baking soda and vinegar - let it bubble a bit in a separate container, and then pour the invisible gas into the can.
I always love your tests and shootouts! I think I trust your opinion and viewpoint on these things more than anybody else when it comes to woodworking.
+Make Something Thanks David!
The Wood Whisperer this would make a great annual series follow up. It would be great to see how these hold up year after year. Especially clarity, yellowing and if the finishes hold together.
That's a lot of tests and a lot of effort. Thanks for this video Marc.
You must be a psychic fortune teller, Marc. As I was watching your video, I was asking myself how easily would the damage be to repair, and then you went and showed exactly that. Bravo, sir. You are still the master.
I used the ARm R Seal on a cherry wall shelf with 2 drawers. I loved the way that it brought out the characteristics of the grain and gum pockets without bloching. The reflection was also really cool. I loved it. Usually I shellac everything.
I think the Minwax & Arm-R-Seal are the real winners here, imho. Just a nitpick on sanding between coats, regardless of the finish being applied, this is just me, but just after vacuuming off the surface, I immediately wipe it down with a well wrung out damp cloth, ( I use the H/D cotton blue ones, available most everywhere. ) It never fails to amaze me just how much dust was still on the wood's surface after vacuuming! Then & only then, the next coat gets applied. This is by far the best comparison test I've ever seen, well done Marc!
I very recently finished up laying down 7" white pine shiplap ( 70 sf. ) horizontally on my workshop walls, 41" down from the above floor joices leaving a 1/8" gap above my 30" tall workbenches.
I have on hand 3/4's of a qt. of Minwax oil based Clear Satin Poly & I plan on applying my 1st & only coat, hopefully, on a small section off by itself to see how it looks.
I have never used the Minwax Wipe On Poly, but I will have a go with this product in all eventualities!
Thank you for the excellent presentation btw,
Bill on the Hill... :-)
I know this is NOT relative to your "Wiping Varnish Shootout" video, but recently, while searching for info on Poly over Shellac, I found your 2010 waxed/dewaxed under poly video and it was exactly what I was looking for. And now I feel I can comfortably put a poly coat OVER my dewaxed spray-on shellac. THANKS, very much!
Thank you for your help with choosing a good finish. I don't do fine woodworking projects but the stuff that I do I want to look good. Thank you for your time. I did get the help I needed to select a good finish. One of my old timer friends once told me that if you put the lid on tight and store the can upside down the content doesn't seal off the top. But the harden layer when upright and open is then on the bottom of the can.
Excellent work Marc! Thank you all for the support.
Time for a little geek info: One thing to note is that Waterlox is a phenolic resin mixed with tung oil the other two are a polyurethane. There is a third type which is an alkyd varnish but is more expensive and difficult to find. The polyurethanes have always been known for their great abrasion resistance, increased hardness, (think tungsten carbide which is subject to chipping) and thus have been traditionally used on floors. The phenolic resin and Tung oil finish that Waterlox uses is known to be "tougher" (Think O1 tool steel which you can lap to a really sharp edge, will flex and not chip, dulls faster) it is also easier to rub out the final even finish which is not easily done with polyurethanes. Not to be the the experiment critic... but I found it interesting that Marc decided on using veneered plywood rather than solid wood for testing purposes... I do believe that this automatically puts the Waterlox at a disadvantage because by nature the phenolic finishes are to be absorbed much deeper into the wood than polyurethanes and provide a type of flexible backbone to the fibers of the wood. This is why you saw the wood absorbing so much more Waterlox in the demonstration. Now if there is only 1/42" of an inch of veneer for the phenolic resin to absorb into then a barrier of adhesive between the veneer and substrate this may prevent the Waterlox from performing the way it was meant to perform which may have been why the Waterlox sealer failed the first water test which it really should excel at... Theoretically in summary Waterlox will not nearly have the scratch resistance of polyurethanes such as arm-r-seal but when they do occur they should be less noticeable and more easily repairable than an equivalent scratch on poly. What this test showed was how each of these finishes performed on plywood but not wood but that might just be splitting hairs. These are great videos and are a tremendous contribution to the woodworking community. I recognize the amount of time and effort that goes into putting these together so thanks and keep up the good work!!
+Aaron Carter thanks Aaron. Just to address your concern, finishes don’t really absorb as deep as people think they do. Most of the time it’s a “skin-deep” penetration. Even though I used plywood, the Waterlox took more coats to achieve the same finish quality as the others. So the veneer was absorbing plenty of finish and probably took up as much as solid wood would have. If solid wood actually absorbs MORE of the stuff than this plywood did, I’d call that a total fail simply because you’d have to buy 2-3 times as much finish just to get a decent appearance. So I can't say for sure because I didn't run the tests, but I have no reason to believe the Waterlox would have done any better on a solid substrate.
The Wood Whisperer Thanks for the response. That is fair enough, I mean I will have to pull out the ol' electron microscope and take a peek at some cross section of each finish to confirm... Haha I just hope cremona is getting some of that GF kickback money. Jk
Very helpful comparison! My compliments on VG production values, and that you don't drag in irrelevant "funny" video clips afflicting so many of other sites.
I've always been a fan of Arm R Seal semi gloss, simple shellac and wax, or oil and wax. This was a good video comparison Mark.
I only use Minnwax Wipe-On poly. It protects very well from water stains because it is polyurethane. I need to apply many coats (up to 8) for a glass like surface but it goes on very quickly. My method is sand to 120 grit, apply three coats at least 3 hours apart then sand with a 220 grit 3M sponge. You'll know it's dry when the dust is a fine white powder. I find this works best as sanding after the 1st and second coats still has fibers sticking up. Thee coats pretty much locks the fibers in place and sanding removes them. The fourth coats glides on smoothly. After I sand, I use ethanol to wipe up dust because mineral spirits can take a while to dry and it stinks. Depending on how rough the surface is after 4 coats, I may or may not sand until prior to the last coat, where I sand with a 3M 320 sponge. The final finish looks like sprayed lacquer but much tougher.
Tip: To minimize fiber from giving a very rough feel after 3 coats, apply the Wipe-On poly perpendicular to the wood grain or in a circular motion with an all cotton rag. This seems like an issue more with plywood veneers than solid wood. Some synthetic rags are like microfiber cloth and it grabs wood fibers like crazy, making application of the first few coats difficult and could leave rag fibers in the coating.
Excellent set of tests. Sponsored products usually annoy me but this is pertinent and useful and I appreciate that. Thanks Mark
It was either that or a mattress ad. :)
Marc - No mattress ads please, so many woodworkers have sold their souls to Casper lol.
Hi Marc, I just watched this. Still very relevant despite the time that has elapsed. You are good at what you do and I'm glad you can support your family doing it.
This video was LOTS more informational than I thought it was going to be. Excelllent!
What an EXCELLENT, practical evaluation of wipe-on finishes! And your commentary was clear and informative... THANK YOU!
The first gallon of Arm R Seal I ever got skimmed up within a few months between projects. It was in the plastic gallon container with screw on lid. I couldn't believe it. I think I will go back to the Arm R Seal now that I know about the Bloxygen. Thanks Marc.
Arm-R-Seal Satin is my go-to nowadays. Less sticky to apply than the Minwax Wipe-On Poly, heavier duty than Watco Danish Oil. The color is amazing. It made a toybox I built out of Douglas Fir just glow. Really hard to screw it up.
Thank you for the practical advice. Your extra efforts to find “real world” damages saved me some valuable time.
What a great video. Well edited, information dense, yet perfectly easy to follow, and good comparison of products. I learned a lot in very little time. Even the Bloxygen ad was well explained and made me want to buy the product. I built a dresser and bookshelf from red oak plywood, which I finished with Minwax. I built a night stand with the left over plywood, which I will try finishing with Arm-r-Seal. Thanks again for the video.
Thank you for this video. I have recently refinished my cherry dining table. Strip it the citri-strip. Initially I applied waterlox sealer, four coats, it seamed very glossy, almost like marine varnish and I could not get rid of the shadow scratches from the 600 grit used between coats. I let it dry for a month then rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool and wool lube, it looked nice but could still see scratch marks. I love the clarity of waterlox but I think it is too soft.
I stripped it again and am now on my 3rd coat of Arm R Seal Gloss. It is coming together nicely. Unlike the review I actually think I have less build with Arm R Seal, the wood looks more natural and I can see the rings in the grain, which I like. May do one more coat of gloss to really smooth it out, knock it down with a white pad then add a top coat of satin. I use foam brushes because I always get streaks when I wipe any finish on.
The other huge difference in the products is the smell, waterlox is overpowering when it is setting up, Arm R Seal has a kind of walnut oil smell.
That was very well done. Great follow-through on the topic, all the way to repairability.
speedrrracer
that was the perfect climax to the shootout!
Science man, freaking science. I love it. Great comparison Marc. Thanks for taking the time to put this out.
Great video Mark! I have always been told G.F. was the best and you just proved it. You are a great source of woodworking knowledge, please keep it up!
Marc, this has to be one of your best videos! Really enjoyed you giving your opinion. Im sure most of us like myself use minwax from walmart because we are broke and have mouths to feed. I had no idea there were other finishes out there and look forward to trying new ones now! Your editing skills on this video where top notch... Few will probably realize you spent many many hours editing this... It came out awesome dude. -Brian
Appreciate that Brian. Yeah, the editing on this one kinda sucked! Several times I asked myself, 'What the hell am I doing?!" haha
Thank you for persevering and sharing the results with us, very much appreciated.
This was awesome.....I always thought the General Finishes Top Coat would be more expensive. Thanks for the tip on Bloxygen. I don't work with wood that much but in the future I can probably avoid buying new over and over. Thanks again for keeping in in the "Tip Loop".
Excellent, excellent, excellent! You are very well spoken and you could probably talk about anything and make it interesting. Thanks!
This is a very thorough, clear and amazing demonstration. I'm a beginner and your video really is a significant help to my knowledge about finishes. Thank you!
Another good and informative video. But believe it or not, I got the most usefulness out of the in-video ad for Bloxygen. Really cool-looking stuff. I'll definitely have to pick some up.
Marc,
It doesn't matter that your tests were not conducted according to high scientific standards. You did exactly the same thing any of us would likely do if we were going to compare and contrast products. None of us is geared up for running an experiment with lots of samples and analyzing them with high tech diagnostic apparatuses.
Thanks a lot,
Russ(Mid-Michigan Woodworker's Guild, mmwg.org)
Been looking at which finish to use and found this video again. I have watched it a few times now, depending on what I am wanting to do I keep coming back to it for info. Thank you for making a great, informative video.
Thanks for getting back...I was hoping to use the Matte over some new spar varnish on Adirondacks to create that kind of finish...I will call the Epiphanes folks tomorrow...I am hoping to use it...
Wow, tons of really useful info in this one. Arm-R-Seal has been my go-to for a while, but it really seems like the differences are pretty small. Thanks, Marc!
Very thorough methods. You are now the FinishWhisperer. Thanks!
The only regret i have is something you have no fault in. In the Netherlands, its other products, brands, names etc. I just hope some Dutch woodworker would do something similar, or collab with me to get it done. No time to go it alone here.
That bloxygen is cool. The search is on!
Marc, you are one creative son of a gun! But man this was pretty scientific in my opinion. Hypothesis aside you began with baselines and made comparative results as evidenced by observation and under the same controlled conditions. You have videos and documented data. Doesn't get more scientifically practical than that. To the wood working world this is very scientific since the average joe will not do this. The wood whisperer: where science, technology and education meet. Thanks for everything you and Nicole do.
And...this is why you're my favorite woodworking content creator. Always bringing extremely helpful and practical information yet keeping it entertaining. In my opinion, a general all purpose well rounded finish is Arm-r-Seal. Like you said, there may be specific instances where you'd use Waterlox. You did a great job of capturing the images and angles of the surfaces. It's very difficult to accurately replicate what you see in person. It would be great to see a similar durability test of water based finished as well. But I know that not everyone likes the look of a water based poly.
Well done! I've questioned myself so many times when using this type of product. I appreciate the work you do and the videos you share. Thank you!
Great comparison. I usually use pre cat lacquer for most things now. But sometimes customers want something extremely glossy and that's when I'll choose a wipe on varnish. The only thing I do differently is, I spray the final coat via hvlp
I put waterlox on my kitchen countertops, and bathroom vanity. Anytime it gets wet baking soda on it, it leaves dark spots. Not sure why. But, I don't plan on ever using it again. As I use baking soda a lot for cleaning.
I can only imagine how many times you've said "Pencil lines on the surface help me gauge my sanding progress" or a similar statement. Admittedly after watching your videos I do it now too. Thanks for the tip over the years lol
Good comparison with the products, but don't the Waterlox sealer and topcoat get used together? It seems unfair to separate them like that :-)
Beautiful comparison. Thank you very much! I especially love the focus on the needs of the project as opposed to biased fanaticism.
Huge thank you fir this video, Marc. Totally love how thorough your test program was and the way you presented the results was clear and precise. Simply outstanding.
Excellent comparison. As a side note, I bought a bottle of Bloxygen about 2 years ago and then forgot I had it. Gonna have to stick it out in plain view so I'll actually use it next time I open a can of something.
Great comparison; I recently used the Arm R Seal, really like it, & was surprised how little color it has which could be a bonus on light colored woods.
outstanding outstanding outstanding!!. Such a great thorough and fair test. Thank you for putting this out there!!!
Thanks for doing this comparison. I'm making birdseye maple veneered bookshelf speakers that will be framed with chamfered strips of bubinga. Those corners are going to be a trick... I've been searching for a finish that adds more color and pop than say a water based poly, but I've been trying to stay away from any drastic yellowing or ambering of the maple. I picked up a can of Waterlox and while it looks great, it turned out to add more amber than I'm looking for. Testing out satin Arm-R-Seal next, fingers crossed. And thanks to you and your sponsor on this one, I ran out and picked up a can of Bloxygen after I bought that expensive quart of Waterlox!
Waterlox Sealer is all I ever use on my woodturnings with exotic woods. Really enhances the grain without building up a plastic looking surface.
The acetone treatment left a pretty cool pattern on the Waterlox sealer. It might be interesting to fill the exposed grain with a coloured wax then go back over with another topcoat
Topcoat, not sealer
Next time you do a comparative review of finishes try to include a review of stand oil - I would be curious to see the results. For your viewers, stand oil is purified linseed oil heated to 500 degrees in a vacuum for 24 hours and has no chemical dryers like boiled linseed oil. The result is a very clear viscous, waterproof and tough finish that doesn't yellow. It is "one of" the ingredients in Tru-oil (Tru-oil is not pure stand oil). It's used mostly by artists and retails for about $14 for a 16oz bottle in artist's supply store. Keep up the good work.
Really appreciate all your skills, tests, info, and humor.
Thanks. Quick question 0:13 Minwax wipe on poly, is it safe to have prolong or repeated bare skin physical contacts with the finish once dried ? In other words, is the dried/cured finish poisonous/cancerous to bare skin physical contact ?
Thanks so much for making and sharing the excel spreadsheet, it will come in handy! If I color coded it would you be interested in the updated format?
+EvanAndKatelyn it's still very rough at this point. I'll refine it a bit more when I have time. But it's an excel spreadsheet so feel free to modify it to your liking.
Will do, and I'll check back later to see your updated format. Thanks again!
FYI, I changed the link to an actual live Google spreadsheet. Feel free to download it to your computer if you wish. I added some color coding to denote "best" and "worst" performance where applicable. Some test can't be interpreted simply as best and worst so those get no color. This should help.
Awesome, that's a great idea! That way the document is always up to date :D I copied and edited it some and emailed it to your marketing address in case you were interested. Just a few cosmetic changes really
arm-r-seal for the win! Great video,Marc!
Great video comparison. Even though I'd already made my choice and applied the finish, this video helped me to feel good about my pick for the long run.
5 Stars for a well thought-out and useful experiment. I have used the Minwax product, but I am going to give the General Finishes a try now too. I didn't believe it when you said argon was heavier than water vapor, so I looked it up. You were right!
In the extreme low humidity, high temperatures of Chandler , Az, I had considerable difficulty working to a wet edge on a large dining table top using Minwax. It just dries so darn fast
Mark, nice job of doing the finish comparison! I have used Min Wax for years as a wipe on finish with good results, but will give Arm R Seal a try in the future. Welcome to Denver, enjoy your videos!
You continue to be the most informative and relevant woodworker this side of Cremona. 😜
Who's that?
😂
I appreciated the sponsor's advert & product as well and will check it out as its something I too can use.
Thank you. We are a small, made in the USA company, and sponsoring this was a reach for us. Marc's fans, however, are great and the response has been excellent! I hope you'll see us more!
Thanks, Marc! Great comparison. I've used the Minwax and Arm-R-Seal products (satin, in both cases). Both worked great, but I prefer the Arm-R-Seal. It added less color to the finished project and seemed a little easier to apply. Just for fun, I may try a Waterlox product next before I settle on a favorite.
Awesome video! I'm new to woodworking and have no experience with wood finishes, but learned a lot from this video! Thanks
I'm about to buy Waterlox sealer VOC for a solid Walnut door for my laundry room. Heard to use the WL sealer for at least 3 coats then the final finish coat do the Waterlox Satin finish. I'm definitely not looking for glossy on my door, and most definitely not on the island top once we order it. I stained my walnut last night with General Finishes American Walnut, so by the time I get working on the Waterlox, it would already be 24 hours. Thanks for posting the comparisons. If this finish works out, I will do the same on a large island Walnut countertop once we purchase it.
Kitchen cabinets, light stain, what finish would you use? I’m not a fan of gloss. Thanks so much!
The Waterlox Satin Sealer is not meant to be used alone, but in conjunction with the Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish (The directions on Waterlox Satin Finish state this). You may have not gotten an accurate representation with the Waterlox because of that.
Great video! I was at a crossroad trying to decide what to use on a project. Much mahalos (thanks) and Aloha from Honolulu Hawaii!
Church of Arm-r-Seal!!!
+Matthew Cremona 🙏
Keep meaning to try it out... How is the scent, being oil based?
Wordsnwood (Art Mulder) invigorating
@Matt ... That's code for "not in my poorly ventilated basement shop!!"
None of these finishes would make you very happy in a poorly-ventilated environment.
Thank you for making this video! As a wood working newb, understanding finishes has been one of the hardest pieces of the puzzle. I think I might need to buy a book on finishes next...🤔 PS - Including the prices was incredibly valuable. Love tangle details like that.
Well done Marc. You've gone above and beyond on this one. Especially loved the torture tests. BRAVISSIMO!
Thanks for the comparison test, Marc. This is great information and will definitely affect my finishing choices.
Well done and the best one for me is a can of Minwax semi and satin which I got for free as the person was going to take it to recycle. One thing not covered is if you run out of one and happen to have another can of something different can you put one on top of another?
I like the Arm-R-Seal for it's lack of yellow coloration. How to make that satin? Just light sanding or a different top coat?
Seems like the Arm-r-Seal is the best overall in terms of durability, consistency and price. Looks like the clear winner to me.
Love the Bloxygen, saves me a ton of money. Just be sure to write "NOT EMPTY " on the can. My wife thru out a new can because it feels empty. It works as advertised.
Nick, email us IronWood.Designs@pobox.com. We will replace your can under our "marital bliss" guarantee. Really.
I think seeing these real world tests side by side were fantastic. I just finished a table last night with a final coat of Arm-R-Seal so I was interested to see how it compared. Good news as you say....they are all pretty good, and for me I used the least expensive product....which is not nearly as inexpensive as it was 6 years ago. :-(
We had to replace our flooring with t&g pine flooring. I really don’t want to use polyurethane because it chips and you have to sand all of it to repair.. so we are thinking waterlox but they say to do 3/4 coats and then Top coat...pretty expensive. So is arm r seal similar to waterlox? Is urethane the same as poly? I really don’t want blotching like the waterlox did to the birch.
Question I’m a homebrew as well as a woodworker. I have a ample amount of Co2 gas for force carbonation of beer. I often use the gas while transferring beer to create a blanket on the bottom of the keg to prevent the beer from oxidation seeing that Co2 is heavier than air. Could I use Co2 as a blanket for my oil based finishes?
I’m making big bass marimba bars (percussion instrument that will be struck thousands of times with a medium-hard mallet and will vibrate like crazy over and over and over). Traditionally they finished with oils and waxes, though I want to experiment with other stuff. For my experiment phase-in order of best to worst-can you please suggest/brainstorm what you think might work out for coating/sealing wooden bars that will be taking a lot of inherent abuse? With all the beating and vibrating, for instance, might shellac or lacquer or polyurethane or wood hardener or a wiping varnish, or an acrylic poor be too brittle, resulting in getting rattled and crushed to death and breaking apart microscopically over time? Also consider which finish would be the most scratch resistant. (Bars will be stored in stacks and slid against each other with the potential of dirt and sand bits in between. Thanks for brainstorming with me 👍🏻
Thanks for the comparison review, Mark, very informative. One thing I would add is that Waterlox is food safe after curing, so you can use it on salad bowls, etc.
+Scott Belleri so are all the others. They all pretty much contain the same ingredients.
+The Wood Whisperer cool, I had no idea. Thanks for the response!
From my past 3 years of experience Waterlox sealer is the best for darker wood but it yellows too much for my taste for any lighter wood (maple, ash, white oak), Arm-R-Seal is good for lighter wood.
I'm building a Cedar porch swing and it's going to be catching all the afternoon sun. I live in Central N.C. some the weather is changing buy the hour almost. I want to keep that beautiful Cedar color, but at the same time I want the best protective finish from the sunlight and the blowing rain, what would you choose....someone said use a Marine Spar varnish, but I just don't know....any info you can give would be helpful.
Can you put arm-r-seal on top of tung oil? Trying to finish a walnut bench
Question: On a raised letter sign (non-smooth surface) can I apply a second coat of varnish without sanding if I apply the second coat before the first coat dries?
I'm curious what you define as "standard hand pressure" for writing. Maybe I'm just super gentle when I write, but I've literally never left an impression in wood after writing on it.
Do you think the arm r seal would not blotch light wood, in satin or matte as well?
Thanks so much for the video. You know how long I had to look to find someone to talk about how writing indents ruin a finish? Forever. Is there a finish of choice for a tabletop to give the best protection from writing indents?
Very good video! I especially liked the end when you repaired the damage with sanding and another coat. I have used Minwax for many years and it works very well. Last summer, I tried Watco wipe-on poly and it was awful. The cans used by Watco are the push-twist type and that is also a negative because resealing is not a guarantee.
would the arm r seal not be suitable to write on then? It would get damaged if i made a desk with it? what should I use?
My counter tops are live edge pine. I don't know what finish was used but it is peeling, if you sit anything you get raised rings. I even have some mildew where a water pitcher leaked through a towel, I love my counter tops but don't know what to do now and I have to be able to use my kitchen. I am guessing I will have to sand and reseal, any advise? Thanks
Hi there , I am trying to bring my maple veneer to mohogany color . Just wonder how to do and what products without blotchy ? Thanks in advance!
Can I use Rubio on a lightly sanding live edge board? I don't need it super smooth. I just want to protect and seal it. Thanks.
what a great idea with the pencil marks could also use this with veneer, so to not go to far with sanding!
Mostly from watching this vid, I got into Arm-R-Seal. It's incredibly durable, beautiful, and it can be wiped on, yet only really needs 3 coats. The can also lasts for years after opening without solidifying - no fancy spray aerosol Bloxygen needed. I just opened a half-used quart can that is about 2 yrs old and it looks and acts like new. Someone (ahem) did spill some nail polish remover on the teak table and that definitely damaged it, but reparable. Not sure what could beat it. Sure seemed like the clear winner in these tests. Only thing is it's not very fast drying.
Hi. I mistakenly used Polyacrylic instead of water based polyurethane on a butcher block counter top (Lowe's had it sitting right next to their oil based polyurethane). Now, months later, the paper from boxes, like cereal or popcorn, sticks to the polyacrylic. I then have to scrape the paper free. How can I fix this?
Just used watco satin and minwax clear satin on a desk top. I liked the watco more
Mark thank you so much for this video. Finishes are tough to decide. I'm Def gonna try armer seal And a cool trick I learned is to save spray can tips : After I use one I take off the cap and put it on a can of wd40 and squirt it a few times. works like a charm. them I mark the can with blue tape to remind myself #1 it's used and #2 to remind me to spray it into a garbage can first to get rid of the wd40 left in the tip.
thanks again
Very useful technique for clearing out tips. I personally use Mohawk's No Blush Plus Retarder (basically just a can of solvent) because it's what I have on hand. And, yes, always spray away from the piece first. In addition to clearing out your solvent, it gives you a good chance to notice that maybe you didn't clear out the tip, and you've got a bunch of crusted on finish to clean off if you don't want splatter all over your project.
I understand this was intended to test these specific products as they stand alone....
Given what we know was coming with the birch, one could simply first seal the birch with a 1/2lb cut of blond shellac. Given that some of these are poly based - its probably best to go with dewaxed shellac.
The Waterlox sealer - wants to seal that birch, in this case perhaps to a fault. I've used waterlox sealant on some objects I turned in Cherry- no blotches
just wondering if you had considered using a conditioner before you started sealing?
I’m about to make a dinning table with the shou Sugi ban method with a pretty heavy burn. Can decide what top coat to use. I’m leaning toward the arm r seal but I have no experience with any of them. I’ll have a rough grain texture on the surface and something that would level it off would be nice but not nessecary. I don’t want to go with epoxy. In your experience is there one better suited for this use?