MAN, do the Frisches know their machining doo-doo! It's So Cool to watch an expert in their field put all that knowledge & experience into practice! THANKS, Eric/Brian!
Wow Eric you got to go to Hendricks? Nice, I used to work there!!! I used to eat lunch and watch the pit crews practice. xD With the Haas CNC's literally let em rip, sunrise to sunset.
yes, taps have that little divot in them for exactly that purpose, there are actually bearing tools you can chuck into the mill that spin like the livecenter on a lathe, so you can put some pressure on the tap as you spin it in.
Eric your videos are getting better and better, I have an associate degree as an auto tech when I was In the university we didn't go through parts this detailed, so thanks for more information it's good to know stuff like that I hope it will help me when I become a master tech. Thanks for providing the best videos on RUclips highly appreciated
Something about watching those threads being tapped was very satisfying, I don't know why that is but they just went in so smoothly and completely straight on in there with that awesome trick he used with the bit on the milling machine. He does great work and i'd take machinists using the old school ways with their techniques and tricks any day of the week over computer programmed machined stuff, it just doesn't have the soul an engine has when put together by the hands of an old-timer vs a computer. At any rate I wanted to add more but I tried keeping this as short as possible and these are my thoughts/opinions. With that said please don't bash what i've said telling me that the other way of doing this is the most accurate and correct way and any other way is wrong, like i've said it is an opinion of me and only me. I appreciate everyone else's opinions and their views on engine builds/assembly. Thank you EricTheCarGuy for all the videos you post helping people I've been watching you since the beginning, freezing in your first shop and filming how to videos even though it must've been miserable and you didn't have to do it, you didn't have a big following base yet but u still made the videos to help people even though it would take double the time to get you work done and there wasn't any incentive other than helping others. You deserve something for that, it seems that financially it has been positive, compared to i'd say half of youtubers you actually truly deserve greatness. I wish you nothing but the best. !!!
Most of Europe has the same practice, and even in US, proper machinists own three set taps. But hey, not everyone can be perfect, and so the myths that you break taps like crazy exist.
At work I sometimes use the taps build for machine use by hand. They tap the thread in one cut but they are more fragile and the thread isn't as good as with the three piece set. But hey, it's quicker. ;-)
I would think their is a certain amount of gratification and pride one would get from using these older kind of machines as oppose to pushing a few buttons on a machine and walking away. And in some odd way it would probably make you a little bit better machinist and take a little bit more pride in what you do.. Interesting videos on the engine build. Keep em coming Eric can't wait to see the rest!!
Putting helicoils in the stud holes would increase their strength and they're a must if the engine is going to be stripped down regularly like a race engine
The machinist who work where I work have a fourth type of tap. They take a bottoming tap and mill away that last 1/8 inch of taper to make what they call a "Real Bottoming Tap".
Those Bridgeport J head milling machines were made from 1952 and up, and the hole in the back of taps is a byproduct of manufacturing but also helps keep it straight when in use.
thats the difference between the american "mechanic" and the german "mechanic" i'm learn Kfz-Mechatroniker in germany and we learn the difference between the thread cutters in school and many more other things that the americans only learn by doing. i'm not a hater i like the work you do! and its only a little thing that i noticed. sorry for my bad english.
More accurately, the precursors to CNCs were punch card numerical machines.I saw only one in a museum in Germany. And after that, the monster tube based ones. Big enough to barely fit in your shop. When you'd start one of those the whole sheet metal would rattle from the selector switches and cooling fans. "Those were the days..." as Jay Leno puts it.
If you go back far enough in programmed machine history it all begins with the Jacquard loom, first demonstrated in 1801. I believe the Munich museum has one on display. It too used punch cards, but they were about 1/2 inch thick and were chained together.
Hey Eric if your interested in machining Abom here on RUclips has some awsome content. Also, he mostly does tool stuff lately, Ave on here has some very good explanation on things like taps and the such.
Well, I did not see/....? any kind of vacuum in machine shop, when they did new threads...., they don't use vacuum to clean out those little chips??? just wondering......a lot....
I knew there were three taps to each thread created, starter/mid/plug, but i didnt think about using the dimple for centering, clever :-D The old plug tap was allways good for the blind holes. Also the taps people use are not professional types, so the thread can be a bit too loose, thank god for locktight red :-D
zx8401ztv sadly this was one of the first things I learned when I was being taught the hows and whys of machining right after don't were gloves, have any piece of clothing, jewelry, or hair, near spinning objects.
Yes the gloves can be really bad, just depends on what you're doing. On drills and lathes they are a no no :-(. Wearing protective glasses is a hazard that most people forget (untill something hits them in the eye), hopefully its a free lesson with no damage. Taps and dies was something i learnt at school, it just made sense to use 3 taps, or create a thread on a bar with an adjustable die. Set it to slightly too big and after the bar thread is cut, then test it with a sample nut, if too tight then adjust the die a little and chase the thread untill its a good fit. The sad thing is generic taps and dies are sold in kits with one tap per size and solid die, you can create a thread but its loose and crude. Sorry for woffling :-(
I thought installation of screw-in rocker studs required first machining down the height of the rocker stud mount pad in the head to account for the base hex of the screw-in stud? Did that happen to these heads?
AnthonyH a jakobs chuck is perfect for drilling we even use them on our cnc machines (just not the keyless variaty). Nothing to write home about but basically if it's good enough in respect to the tolerance why bother with anything else. Machining in general is really all about things being just good enough for the application/customer requirements, production time per part, and cost or at least this is what has been drilled into my head.
Why didnt he just test the first hole, have all the settings etc, and just drill all of them then tap? Seems to be alot of extra work changing the stuff (And time!) to just drill one hole, tap it, put in the drillbit again so on? Considering the rest of these videos, some of them isnt that ''serious'' fixes.
My best guess would be so that he could center the tap exactly where he drilled the hole. If he drilled down the line, then came back across to tap, he'd have to recenter each hole and hope he had it lined up just right. Or, as Sam Johnson said, he did it this way to show us a couple examples. :)
Carsten Langbo Better practice would be to put the tap in the drill chuck and power tap the hole instead of fumbling around with centers and tap handles....The keep it simple stupid (KISS) method.
Not if you calculate the depth and know where the bottom is in relation to the scale on the quill. That's what the on off switch is for. Reverse it out of the hole. I've done it hundreds of times...beats the heck out of fumbling with a tap handle and center..
I wonder why people still use normal taps in soft materials like aluminium. There are machine taps that do all the cutting those three taps do, so it saves considerable time using them. Plus, there are special ones that are ground down at the tip so you can cut threads down to the bottom of the hole. Or you can grind them down yourself. Can anybody educate me on that? About that CNC discussion: Nobody uses a CNC for that because you needed to measure everything precisely (!), write a program, fill all the different chucks and indicate the tool positions, indicate the part on the CNC, test the program and then run it. And "running it" for the first time means standing next to it with your hand on the emergency stop button in case something goes wrong. So doing it the "oldschool" way is faster and more precise in most cases. The only time you can save time is the second run for the second head on a V type engine. If you had to do 20 heads, this would be a different story :)
BavarianMonkey agree with the faster and cheaper for a very small and simple run but as to how indicating material on our cnc mill we have a probe that will get your x,y,z, and center in about 5 minutes if you run the machine manually (manual drift for those who don't know), and maybe 1 minute if you write the program (we use hieden heim on a dmg mori) as to acuracy it all dependes on the machine but 9 out of 10 cnc hands down imo less human error but it would really all come down to the operator
kurupz aaah yes, I completely forgot about those 3D ruby (?) ball probes. With something like that, indicating the tool is a lot faster than doing it manually. But the whole measuring and programming stuff stays the same. I wonder if there are drawings of those heads out there. With a drawing of course the programming is only a few key presses - it it the measuring that takes a lot of time, not the "go x mm, drill hole y mm deep, pull out, go x mm...." :)
BavarianMonkey wouldn't need a drawing just program the block form(for simulation purposes could be a giant square tbh) and the drilling and tapp locations would take max 30 min. Then all you need to do is edit the locations and blockform for different engines I just would program linear movements on the z axis cautiously and not make 3 axis movements close to the work piece. Editing the speeds, feeds, and tool on the tool call is simple enough and viola now you have a program for every engine you have worked on. You can use hole centering (with the probe) to find the location of each hole if it was deemed necessary and\or quicker btw ball probes can be made of ruby, silicon nitride, zirconia, ceramic or tungsten carbide and possibly some more idk. But ruby is the standard.
btw I prefer not to use standard drill cycles because I can manually program the pecking and it wont take any longer(for me im slow with all the cycle functions), then label set and label call and that's basically a drill cycle. Mind you this is only on hieden heim I don't know any other controllers yet
I know your not a machinist but the fact that you did not know the difference between a starting and bottoming tap is somewhat startling. I think I was taught that before I knew the answer to 2+2..
They are more durable, are stronger for both tensile (studs) and bending (studs and rocker arms) forces. His engine seems to use an aftermarket cam that might have more lift (on the cam lobes) and he could be running higher engine speeds (RPM) as well. If he uses bigger valves, those are (in most cases) heavier. In order to maintain valve control and prevent valve float, you need heavier springs that take more force to compress and open the valve. So if you increase valve size and/or cam lift and/or valve lift (based on the rocker ratio) and/or engine speed, you need to make everything in the chain between the cam lobe and the valve itself more durable in order not to break and screw up the engine.
That tap follower is not really good choice. Put the machine in back gear and just power tap to get the tap started and finish off by hand. Any skilled machinist can do this without going to far. Yes i know its a blind hole but this is how i do it and i am no machinist.
Starter, Plug and Bottoming tap? Rocker shaft? Stud girdle? holy shit, there's a lot to learn from Kevin
damn Eric you're really educating us on that engine block
That was the plan.
Learning so much on just how insanely technical engines really are. Thanks!
MAN, do the Frisches know their machining doo-doo! It's So Cool to watch an expert in their field put all that knowledge & experience into practice! THANKS, Eric/Brian!
Wow Eric you got to go to Hendricks? Nice, I used to work there!!! I used to eat lunch and watch the pit crews practice. xD With the Haas CNC's literally let em rip, sunrise to sunset.
Nice! I've also been to Penske as of last September.
I am really liking the machine shop videos. These guys are good.
yes, taps have that little divot in them for exactly that purpose, there are actually bearing tools you can chuck into the mill that spin like the livecenter on a lathe, so you can put some pressure on the tap as you spin it in.
Have to say eric this channel has the best video and audio of any i watch, great job brian.
Thanks. We work hard on our production values. It's nice when they're noticed.
Wow camera 🎥 man Brian that's a serious microphone 🎤 I could literally hear the threads getting cut hhhaha
Eric your videos are getting better and better, I have an associate degree as an auto tech when I was In the university we didn't go through parts this detailed, so thanks for more information it's good to know stuff like that I hope it will help me when I become a master tech. Thanks for providing the best videos on RUclips highly appreciated
You got it right, Eric. The Bridgeport was a manual CNC machine.
Something about watching those threads being tapped was very satisfying, I don't know why that is but they just went in so smoothly and completely straight on in there with that awesome trick he used with the bit on the milling machine. He does great work and i'd take machinists using the old school ways with their techniques and tricks any day of the week over computer programmed machined stuff, it just doesn't have the soul an engine has when put together by the hands of an old-timer vs a computer. At any rate I wanted to add more but I tried keeping this as short as possible and these are my thoughts/opinions. With that said please don't bash what i've said telling me that the other way of doing this is the most accurate and correct way and any other way is wrong, like i've said it is an opinion of me and only me. I appreciate everyone else's opinions and their views on engine builds/assembly. Thank you EricTheCarGuy for all the videos you post helping people I've been watching you since the beginning, freezing in your first shop and filming how to videos even though it must've been miserable and you didn't have to do it, you didn't have a big following base yet but u still made the videos to help people even though it would take double the time to get you work done and there wasn't any incentive other than helping others. You deserve something for that, it seems that financially it has been positive, compared to i'd say half of youtubers you actually truly deserve greatness. I wish you nothing but the best. !!!
I really like the amount of pride in this build.... Eric, this is gonna be awesome..
loving the inside bits of the machine shop XD
these guys look like they love engines
In Germany we use to have a three piece set of tap for cutting threads by hand.
Martin Born Good Ole German engineering
Most of Europe has the same practice, and even in US, proper machinists own three set taps. But hey, not everyone can be perfect, and so the myths that you break taps like crazy exist.
At work I sometimes use the taps build for machine use by hand.
They tap the thread in one cut but they are more fragile and the thread isn't as good as with the three piece set.
But hey, it's quicker. ;-)
Hi Martin - at 04:32 the machinist mentions starting, plug and bottom taps, which the common name (in US and UK, at least) for a three tap set.
man at the beginning you can just see this "Just shut up and let me do my shit" look coming from Kevin as Eric starts explaining the video.
I use spring loaded center punches for that little hole on the back of the tap. It is more helpful on manual lathes but still works on mills.
can't wait to see this thing rip!
Brandon Schneider me too
ruclips.net/video/UADOHm6-BJc/видео.html
those bridgeport mills are atleast from the 40's, one a lot like that was in my high school metal shop in CT and had a date code on it around the 40s
I would think their is a certain amount of gratification and pride one would get from using these older kind of machines as oppose to pushing a few buttons on a machine and walking away. And in some odd way it would probably make you a little bit better machinist and take a little bit more pride in what you do..
Interesting videos on the engine build. Keep em coming Eric can't wait to see the rest!!
I'm loving this series of videos, hope there are a lot more. SOO much learning! Love it.
the little divet in the tap I think was to center the tap when it was being cut in the first place.
Bridgeport mill. Scoocum
AVE refrence :)
Clapped out old bridgeport
miho999 still beter than new junk...
skookum as frick!
glad to see ave growing, that chap is amazing!
Is it just me or does Kevin sound a lot like John Goodman?
A little, yes.
He looks and sounds like the guy from Heroes with the suitcase full of pennies.
I've been thinking the same thing all along.
Putting helicoils in the stud holes would increase their strength and they're a must if the engine is going to be stripped down regularly like a race engine
The machinist who work where I work have a fourth type of tap. They take a bottoming tap and mill away that last 1/8 inch of taper to make what they call a "Real Bottoming Tap".
From what i understand, the "divet" on the end of the tap is simply cut for a live center during the manufacturing process, i.e. a center on the lathe
Those Bridgeport J head milling machines were made from 1952 and up, and the hole in the back of taps is a byproduct of manufacturing but also helps keep it straight when in use.
Yep, Drill straight, Tap straight.
Drill straight, tap crooked, break tap!
Cool to see another Bridgeport although this one looks different to AvE channel's clapped out monster.
Bos Hagedash The old, clapped out Bridgeport!
He does not look too happy about being recorded lol
thats the difference between the american "mechanic" and the german "mechanic"
i'm learn Kfz-Mechatroniker in germany and we learn the difference between the thread cutters in school and many more other things that the americans only learn by doing.
i'm not a hater i like the work you do! and its only a little thing that i noticed.
sorry for my bad english.
loving these videos
More accurately, the precursors to CNCs were punch card numerical machines.I saw only one in a museum in Germany. And after that, the monster tube based ones. Big enough to barely fit in your shop. When you'd start one of those the whole sheet metal would rattle from the selector switches and cooling fans. "Those were the days..." as Jay Leno puts it.
If you go back far enough in programmed machine history it all begins with the Jacquard loom, first demonstrated in 1801. I believe the Munich museum has one on display. It too used punch cards, but they were about 1/2 inch thick and were chained together.
6:54 Yes Brian, he's got large hands....
Hi Eric, when are going to see that beautiful machinery running?
Smart dude!
Hey Eric if your interested in machining Abom here on RUclips has some awsome content. Also, he mostly does tool stuff lately, Ave on here has some very good explanation on things like taps and the such.
Well, I did not see/....? any kind of vacuum in machine shop, when they did new threads...., they don't use vacuum to clean out those little chips??? just wondering......a lot....
I knew there were three taps to each thread created, starter/mid/plug, but i didnt think about using the dimple for centering, clever :-D
The old plug tap was allways good for the blind holes.
Also the taps people use are not professional types, so the thread can be a bit too loose, thank god for locktight red :-D
zx8401ztv sadly this was one of the first things I learned when I was being taught the hows and whys of machining right after don't were gloves, have any piece of clothing, jewelry, or hair, near spinning objects.
Yes the gloves can be really bad, just depends on what you're doing.
On drills and lathes they are a no no :-(.
Wearing protective glasses is a hazard that most people forget (untill something hits them in the eye), hopefully its a free lesson with no damage.
Taps and dies was something i learnt at school, it just made sense to use 3 taps, or create a thread on a bar with an adjustable die.
Set it to slightly too big and after the bar thread is cut, then test it with a sample nut, if too tight then adjust the die a little and chase the thread untill its a good fit.
The sad thing is generic taps and dies are sold in kits with one tap per size and solid die, you can create a thread but its loose and crude.
Sorry for woffling :-(
I'd say that mill is worth more than your Fairmont Eric :D
I see taller valve covers in your future Eric need enough room to clear that stud girdle
Damn, I love engine so much haha
I thought installation of screw-in rocker studs required first machining down the height of the rocker stud mount pad in the head to account for the base hex of the screw-in stud? Did that happen to these heads?
+Roger Mason
Depends on the installation.
It is all about the valvetrain geometry and the selected valvetrain components
Just listening to the video intro, I thought John Goodman in the video.
I personally would've just drilled it out to 1/2" then put silicone around the stud.
Awesome sauce!
Hmmmm you gave me an idea.
Walter White didn't die, he just became a machinist.
amazing vid!
eric q i have a 2000 ford 5.4 engine do u have a video on replacing head gasets
What angle does the head set at to cut the guide bosses
Ayyy I live in Connecticut! lol
Jacob's chuck on a Bridgeport mill? why tho
ChrisHallett83 Jacob's MADE IN CHINA I just bought a new one last week and discovered that.
AnthonyH a jakobs chuck is perfect for drilling we even use them on our cnc machines (just not the keyless variaty). Nothing to write home about but basically if it's good enough in respect to the tolerance why bother with anything else. Machining in general is really all about things being just good enough for the application/customer requirements, production time per part, and cost or at least this is what has been drilled into my head.
Why didnt he just test the first hole, have all the settings etc, and just drill all of them then tap? Seems to be alot of extra work changing the stuff (And time!) to just drill one hole, tap it, put in the drillbit again so on? Considering the rest of these videos, some of them isnt that ''serious'' fixes.
I think that the video would have been way long. He just did one for our benefit. Peace. Sam.
rambon1234 well.... This way he can center the drill and use the mill as guide for the tap without centering it twice
My best guess would be so that he could center the tap exactly where he drilled the hole. If he drilled down the line, then came back across to tap, he'd have to recenter each hole and hope he had it lined up just right.
Or, as Sam Johnson said, he did it this way to show us a couple examples. :)
Carsten Langbo Better practice would be to put the tap in the drill chuck and power tap the hole instead of fumbling around with centers and tap handles....The keep it simple stupid (KISS) method.
Not if you calculate the depth and know where the bottom is in relation to the scale on the quill. That's what the on off switch is for. Reverse it out of the hole. I've done it hundreds of times...beats the heck out of fumbling with a tap handle and center..
I wonder why people still use normal taps in soft materials like aluminium. There are machine taps that do all the cutting those three taps do, so it saves considerable time using them. Plus, there are special ones that are ground down at the tip so you can cut threads down to the bottom of the hole. Or you can grind them down yourself.
Can anybody educate me on that?
About that CNC discussion: Nobody uses a CNC for that because you needed to measure everything precisely (!), write a program, fill all the different chucks and indicate the tool positions, indicate the part on the CNC, test the program and then run it. And "running it" for the first time means standing next to it with your hand on the emergency stop button in case something goes wrong.
So doing it the "oldschool" way is faster and more precise in most cases. The only time you can save time is the second run for the second head on a V type engine.
If you had to do 20 heads, this would be a different story :)
BavarianMonkey agree with the faster and cheaper for a very small and simple run but as to how indicating material on our cnc mill we have a probe that will get your x,y,z, and center in about 5 minutes if you run the machine manually (manual drift for those who don't know), and maybe 1 minute if you write the program (we use hieden heim on a dmg mori) as to acuracy it all dependes on the machine but 9 out of 10 cnc hands down imo less human error but it would really all come down to the operator
kurupz aaah yes, I completely forgot about those 3D ruby (?) ball probes. With something like that, indicating the tool is a lot faster than doing it manually. But the whole measuring and programming stuff stays the same.
I wonder if there are drawings of those heads out there. With a drawing of course the programming is only a few key presses - it it the measuring that takes a lot of time, not the "go x mm, drill hole y mm deep, pull out, go x mm...." :)
BavarianMonkey wouldn't need a drawing just program the block form(for simulation purposes could be a giant square tbh) and the drilling and tapp locations would take max 30 min. Then all you need to do is edit the locations and blockform for different engines I just would program linear movements on the z axis cautiously and not make 3 axis movements close to the work piece. Editing the speeds, feeds, and tool on the tool call is simple enough and viola now you have a program for every engine you have worked on. You can use hole centering (with the probe) to find the location of each hole if it was deemed necessary and\or quicker btw ball probes can be made of ruby, silicon nitride, zirconia, ceramic or tungsten carbide and possibly some more idk. But ruby is the standard.
btw I prefer not to use standard drill cycles because I can manually program the pecking and it wont take any longer(for me im slow with all the cycle functions), then label set and label call and that's basically a drill cycle. Mind you this is only on hieden heim I don't know any other controllers yet
I know your not a machinist but the fact that you did not know the difference between a starting and bottoming tap is somewhat startling. I think I was taught that before I knew the answer to 2+2..
why do we install bigger rocker arms?
They are more durable, are stronger for both tensile (studs) and bending (studs and rocker arms) forces.
His engine seems to use an aftermarket cam that might have more lift (on the cam lobes) and he could be running higher engine speeds (RPM) as well. If he uses bigger valves, those are (in most cases) heavier. In order to maintain valve control and prevent valve float, you need heavier springs that take more force to compress and open the valve.
So if you increase valve size and/or cam lift and/or valve lift (based on the rocker ratio) and/or engine speed, you need to make everything in the chain between the cam lobe and the valve itself more durable in order not to break and screw up the engine.
They're stronger and the new rockers I'm using require the larger stud.
Chamfer bit for a tap guide? Nope. Just get the right spring loaded center. SMH
Otherwise, really nice.
That tap follower is not really good choice. Put the machine in back gear and just power tap to get the tap started and finish off by hand. Any skilled machinist can do this without going to far. Yes i know its a blind hole but this is how i do it and i am no machinist.
omg second 11!!!111 !!11! What do I win?
Mr Machinist is not having any of your nonsense today Eric 😑
Yeah..... lol
He's MADDD, GTFO my shop, i wouldve had your motor done a week ago.
your stupid
luke saylor lol this isnt live you idiot.
no shit its not live.
Eric likely has the motor done already. He is just uploading videos slowly to have continuous content.