"Hey guys. Recce Randy. Day 100 of owning Knights. I have resorted to eating rats, and drinking my own piss. Rifle is still sick though. One day I'll be able to buy ammo. Can't wait."
I'm a 21 year retired Marine & worked 11 years for Knights in Gun Assy and on the range assisting the Shooter and 30 year retired Marine ( "The Gunny"....Chuck ).....The most respected man in the plant. He shoots like an animal & has fired millions of rounds qualifying the guns marked for the military M110 SASS & other variants, as well as for the 15"s & 16's. The man knows his shit. He was a career Armor in the Marines and nobody knew the overall product like he did ,or could shoot better than he could. And best of all....He was the Best & Honest & Hardworking Man I ever knew, next to My Dad. I loved working there but had to end my stay for health reasons. We were all like family. Our hearts went into these guns but there were definitely problems in the management department which did cause QA issues through bad calls made by management & QA not communicating well with each other....They had big communication problems between QA & top management. Could be a much greater product if QA/management problems were solved. Certain bolt carriers on the 15's were vendor made and absolute crap. They took some gunsmithing on the part of Assemblers just to get them to function....junk. Production standards were sometimes waved as a result of many out of spec parts being rejected by the Assemblers but placed back in supply by QA....Bad & useless practice....Slowed production down. The SASS & all 308 variants are pretty awesome and reliable and so were variants of the 15's that did not use vendor parts. I also worked with their trigger man, also responsible for returned repairs....It's slow because he was the only one doing it and was our soul trigger man with tons of triggers to take care of...When he had the time for those repairs, he was very quick to respond & did excellent work....Probably the longest working man in the plant next to Reed Knight. We referred to Him as Reed's Son, since Jim was there from the old days at Vero Bch. I miss my fellow military co workers and the job. Mike the Uppers Guy is AWESOME & A GREAT GUY. It was really fun & satisfying working with people like him. We were Family & Proud & determined to put out the Best Product we could, given the constant battle with QA waving specs & a few substandard production practices that sometimes plagued our quality due to a few who were not very good at their jobs. But I guess this happens in all big companies. Overall...I Loved Knights & it's mission for the military & especially for the AWESOME PEOPLE I worked with...Both Military & Civilian....GREAT PEOPLE. My layman's opinion, after much first hand experience with building & shooting....with regard to cost.... they are overpriced & rely more on name recognition to justify it. To me, the Propriatory stance was designed to create a "Special" status for their guns in order to create a cult following & set them apart from others. It has worked for the most part. I've owned lots of guns but never bought a Knights at even the employee discount because they are too over priced IMO.
Had an old Bushmaster XM15 as my first AR over a decade ago. I replaced it with a Lancer L15 that has a carbon fiber handguard and a right-handed blot release. I'm very happy with it 👍
@@swingnamiss8130LMT is fantastic. If I could find a LMT SPECWAR in stock I’d buy it in a second over a KAC CQB, and a 14.5 SR-15 e3.2 is my main squeeze.
@@TerminalM193 in a 1.5 hour drive I can swing by Griffin Armament and Vortex. BCM is just up the road a ways and just passed that is Henry Arms .Just moved from Florida couldn’t find a Knights and didn’t want a Kel Tec
@@kevmoful Hell yea man! Griffin is definitely on my AR bucket list. It's probably going to be the company I go with after I finish building out my LWRC piston rifle. It's pretty much completed, just waiting on a hux can & new stock, "can't decide what stock to go with this time". BCM is also on that bucket list I spoke of but much further down the list.
So, I was a weapons mechanic In a SOF unit a few years ago. I hate working on KAC rifles and KAC parts. With the M110 program by contract we were limited to what we could work on with the M110. Every part that we could work on and replace constantly broke. We had more lemons than oranges when it came to Bolts in fact. I get it its .308, but if I have lugs breaking around a thousand rounds on a $10K rifle that people are quite literally trusting their life to that is insane. There is budget build AR-10s with higher round counts before they need to be cleaned. The biggest problem was having to send guns with the help of TACOM back to KAC for repair because we are not allowed to do a simple barrel swap. I had 6 weapons that the sniper detachment had to deploy without because it took KAC a little less than a year to get the rifles back with "new barrels" (they had been used). With the signing of the renewal of the M110 contract they had finally addressed the poor-quality metal used for the bolts. At this point I think enough people in TACOM and USSOCOM finally noticed the problem and developed a contract to replace it with HKs version. The coolest malfunction I ever saw was a range call from a team to go inspect a KAC rifle that fired without an operator pulling the trigger. This was actually pretty dope. The rifle would fire a round by itself every couple of seconds. My conclusion is KAC has a combination of high end, mid-tier, and low-end parts. That combination does not work out with tolerance stacking and key components to fail. The poor customer relationship on civilian and DOD sides speaks for itself. There are probably really good people that work there, and these things are unfortunately out of their hands. I’m just happy I never have to fix a KAC product ever again.
That is really interesting, thanks for sharing. What was your experience like working with Heckler and Koch rifles if you don't mind me asking? Did you find the HK stuff to be of better quality and reliability than the KAC stuff you worked with?
@@k7j007 with HK it honestly depends on the platform. 416 is solid. MP5s honestly don't have enough fire power to hurt themselves. The plastic frame can break and the FCG rarely does have issues but some of the springs tend to break. The G3s do see wear issues in the rollers. In terms of customer relations HK is only a little better and the CQ/QA is better.
I know people who compete regularly who are nearing the 100k rounds a year. I guess if you shoot regularly, take classes, and do a few USPSA matches a month this is not at all un-realistic.
i never got a knights because of the proprietary parts but i also bought LmT because of theirs lol. lmt is the way to go. buy an upper and 2 barrels and your good for a looooong time
If I cant hot swap shit out or tinker, its not for me. Theres a lot of really cool stuff out there that is proprietary, but I can't accept being without my rifle for however long it takes to fix - if the company even exists any more. (not likely the case with knights but has happened to others.)
I think knights makes cool stuff and I would definitely buy one if I had enough money for it to not feel expensive. The problem I have with knights is simply that it’s too similar to a regular AR15 for me to justify it having several proprietary parts that I can’t fix myself. I would rather buy a SCAR 16 or an MCX or something else if it’s going to have proprietary parts because those guns are more different to me, and more interesting. The only exception I have with knights is the m110 with the suppressor, that’s a cool gun and I would definitely drop 30k on it right now if I had the money.
I can never find a KAC upper for or on sale. It's doggy doo-doo. I was gifted an SR-15 lower, so I'm trying to complete the build. Currently, I'm running a URGI upper. Should I run an LMT upper instead?
There's two for sale at adelbridge in San Antonio tx. A 14.5 and a 10.5. Both new. The price on the 14.5 is about 2400 before sales tax. They have a website as well.
KAC just dislikes their customers. Put more friggin products out more than once a year. I have the mod 2 E3 14.5" on a mars-l lower and the thing is fantastic. Knights is just full of themselves. Living off their rep and military contracts from years ago. there's companies that have surpassed them yet they don't seem to understand or care. It would be nice if you could find their uppers, accessories, etc but they're fucking impossible to find for the most part unless you deal with the raping on gunbroker. LMT, Sig, FN, Daniels etc are just as good if not better, especially LMT. For the bullshit you go through with KAC, just buy other brands
@@johncharnley2877 Of course. There's globalist stooge companies in the 2A community for sure. Ukraine has zero chance of winning this fake war but send more weapons just to keep the murder / destroying machine movin baby. Profits above everything else. I stand with Russia 110% anyway so keep it up NWO bureaucrats. Sig hopefully won't be another KAC but we'll see about that
@@TerminalM193LWRC is one of those better companies it appears. I do not own anything by them But their top end weapons are certainly Kac-ish price wise. I want their SMG-45 but not for 3k
@@Kipdeisel So far I've stuck with their "IC" Rifles. I have 2 ic-di & 1 piston and love them more than any other rifle I've owned. You can find amazing deals on their IC DI rifles of any size and during memorial day and black Friday/ cyber Monday you can find some insane deals on their piston builds.
I sold some of my rifles to get both the 11.5 and the 14.5 KAC uppers. At this point i could not be happier. My process is if I don't shoot it has to go. But with my Knights depending on what I am doing that day, one of them is coming out. I don't get gas to the face when they are suppressed. Even though they get extra dirty due to being suppressed they just keep going. (My OCD makes me clean them often) The accuracy is unreal when I use 77gr. So I really don't have the urge to get another rifle as I am happy with what I have.
Back in the day when I was getting into the scene I had the budget and I would have bought Knights exclusively. Knights was not available so I had to go a different way.
I can't afford it. But I handled their 110's in the Army very briefly. The quality is second to none imho. The price is high because the military buys most of their stock and the demand civilian-side is high. That means it's either a meme or it 'Just works'. From handling it and talking with guys that have used their products, it is in the latter category. At least theoretically, I think a lot of the proprietary modifications are smart. I'd say from watching gun jesus and a few other guntubers talk about their company, I also think they're the real successor to Armalite in how they do things. I just hope that they don't go Colt's route of only military. Which seemed to be the death knell for Colt's creativity and management. When that well runs dry, they better have a good backup.
I feel ya man! I love the Hodge guns and spent 3 years just building a 12.5 upper and just finally last week got my hands on a complete mod 1v2 lower and a mod 2 C-405 ambi lower. Now I have everything for the c-405 to make a 14.5 rig except the c-405 stripped upper. Who knows how long that will take. I plan on getting one of the Knights 11.5 rigs but who knows.
I think the 11.5 knights is the perfect rifle for what I do I would like to get a hodge in the future for more gas gun stuff seeing the legitimate gains in muzzle velocity and accuracy with the hodge stuff sells me
When I bought my stuff most uppers were 1775 and could be had decently regular at the price seems as if there has been some price changes in the last two years that I wasn’t aware of
They raised the MSRP in the last year or so but it's not super unreasonable. There are still deals to be had on the secondary market if you're patient. I wouldn't pay a dollar over MSRP for anything Knights unless you are a collector or weird.
@@computer_carnivore yeah not paying over MSRP is obvious, I'm just saying that MSRP has raised. And lowers are basically not a thing unless you buy a complete factory rifle but they're not fully ambi anyways so only hype beasts need them.
Knight's has designed and produced some cool products over the years but as far as ARs go, I've never seen any Gucci AR do anything a plain old milspec FN or Colt won't do. I just don't see any extra on-target performance that you get for the extra money.
Agreed. So long as the receivers are 7075, milspec, and handguard is a solid proven one, you throw in a quality barrel, BCG and fire control group and the differences between that and a KAC really show the diminishing returns of the KAC. I run an SLR Receiver set with JP SCS Buffer Spring, Mid Length SA Piston system, Geissele SDC flat face trigger, Criterion Barrel, Radian CH, Radian Safety Selector, B.A.D. bolt catch, BCM Mod3 grip…. It’s a Frankenstein but it’s very accurate and reliable. I’d put it up against a KAC any day. Quality parts from quality companies, tuned recoil system, etc… for about $700 less than a KAC. I’d argue a better value for what you get, but some would say the better value is the one that keeps its value, and KAC has an excellent resale value that you can’t argue with. It’s a collectors item but it’s functional and it’s quality. Performance has less to do with the price than the reputation/name IMO. I see it the same way as Noveske or Radian’s full builds, or even just their upper builds. For Radian, before tax, Charging handle is $125 retail, Shilen barrel $480 retail, Enhanced BCG is $210 retail, Upper and handguard are $770 (even though we’re technically getting an extra charging handle buying it separately), unknown gas block and gas tube so we’ll just say $100 covers that, and a Dead Air Flash Hider at $84. So when you piece it all together, it’s about $200 less than the fully assembled upper receiver, but holy crap, $2k for an upper is absurd when LMT, PWS, Cobalt Kinetics, Daniel Defense, LWRC and CMMG exist. Sure, the proprietary handguard to receiver lock up is nice and looks cool, shiren barrels are good (although I also think they’re overpriced), but $2k for a non-adjustable DI upper? It’s prestige pricing. Higher price to give consumers the impression that it’s high value. It appeals to consumers who are interested in projecting an elevated status. Again, not to say they’re not good, but they’re not THAT good.
Very nice setup! I for one appreciate your message, so I didn't take it as a rant. My only problem is, I like too many brands, so it sucks to be on a very limited budget.
I've spent a ton of money on AR15s and guns in general and I own zero Knights guns. Reason being--it seems the civ market mostly gets guns that were rejected from their contracts. I say this because of the very pervasive issues with the finishes on KAC guns. Guns with dents and dings being shipped out to civilian customers. It's ridiculous. I own one KAC product--a 3 prong flash hider. It has a very, very noticeable burr that shouldn't have made it out of their factory but it did. Look around online and you will see these types of issues are very common with KAC. Then, you will find their CS is extremely bad and often times they seem to want to blame the end user even when it was clearly something that made it past their QC. I don't care for expensive products with bad finishes and shitty CS. KAC is high on their own farts. I'm not that big of a fan of Hodge but say what you will about their product(its nice, just kinda meh imo) but if you have an issue with a Hodge product you can literally get in touch with Jim himself pretty easily and he'll take care of you and I have even heard he'll spend hours on the phone just having an autistic conversation about the AR. Reed won't do that lmao.
Same. Multiple 6 figures worth of guns and own no KAC. They are the American H and K. They hate civilians and just use them to dump all their trash/contract overruns. Their fan base is in an abusive relationship and is oblivious to it. Old friend did a preorder with them a decade or so ago and I ended up having to deal with it because he got deployed by the time they got around to actually cobbling together a civilian rifle.
Great video. I did not know Knight's Armament ARs are proprietary. This is not for me. For background, I'm a gun instructor that uses these guns to train beginners and I run tens of thousands of rounds through Palmetto AR-15s every year. I need everything mil-spec with ample supply of parts so I can fix things when they break really fast. Money is not the issue. I make money with the guns. I make more money with Palmeto's that are easy to fix. I change the trigger groups and bolts every 8,000 rounds. The barrels are good for 22,000 rounds. If one gun happens to go down, I just picked up another cheap one and keep going. Lots of cheap guns is more useful and profitable than a few expensive ones. I use Glock gen 3 for the same reason.
Thanks for sharing. That is very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, Im asking out of genuine curiosity. why would the trigger groups need replacing? I understand that trigger and hammer springs wear out like any spring and would need replacing, but does the trigger shoe, hammer and disconnector also wear to the point of potential failure after so many rounds? Is it just wear on all the points of contact between the parts that could lead to reliability and or safety issues, or do parts outright fail? I apologize for the long winded reply/question but thanks in advance for your insight.
Im currently in a toss up between a kac cqb a lmt specwar and a 11.5 urgi to throw on my mars l lower. Can get the urgi for like $700 less then both of them. Not sure if it’s worth it. I can afford it but that’s a magnifier and mount for my t2. Never shot a kac or lmt before as pretty much only have had colts and bcm’s
I’ve seen plenty of contractors and such over the years . I am not one just an enthusiast. Never seen one use a knights . Noveske, colt, and Larue were the most popular back then.
I’ve got some great KAC stories if you’d like to hear them. I’ve worked with their CS more than one time. I’ve got some great stories and some horror stories with them. I have a mod2 CQB, mod 2 carbine, mod1 16”, sr16 and a legacy rifle. I had issues with the CQB mod2 and the Sr16 (wouldn’t even run out of the box). Jack was AWESOME. Some of the other people that work there were… interesting.
It's the best bolt, bolt extension, and barrel in the business. Travis Haley has gotten 80k+ rds through a gen-1 E3 bolt. That, alone, makes it top tier. Top Tier really only is LMT and KAC; only two companies that can get a bolt to last past 50k rounds with regularity. Also, I have not met more than a handful of people who have ever broken even a garbage 9310 bolt, much less a C158 standard bolt.
@@Recce_randyI guess the hand guard lock up on cobalt is pretty cool but besides that, it doesn’t seem to have anything special. Am I wrong? Just interested in the nuances as to what actually makes a rifle high end.
I’d say fit and finish the hodge barrels even though I’m pretty sure they’re fn have notable increases in fps for their length and are gassed extremely well the cobalt lockup is nice and hodge pretty much has the best rails knights I would consider one of the nicest off the rack rifles but suffer the same qc and overgrazing issues as most they will always function well but the hodge and cobalt guns I’ve shot are super smooth I’d say it’s a fine line honestly
thanks for the video. i liked it but please don't do the "tsschk tschk" mouth sucking thing in your next video. Did you cerakote that SR-15 or is that the factory taupe?
The proprietary crap aside at the end of the day it's all 6061, 7075 and 158 materials more than likely machined on the same machines and there's fools born every day that's willing to pay 5X for the same materials the cheaper manufacturers are using. Kydex is Kydex, Cordura is Cordura, 7075 uppers are 7075 uppers, it's all the same except for the company logo.
Most AR15s are just that AR15s to me just a tool and they all perform the same to me my cheap AR15 shoots the same if not better than my work Army issue M4, people get to wrapped up in this instead of trigger time
Whole lotta PSA gang shit. Freedom upper and mil spec lower, threw on an afg, light, and pop up rear to go with the gas block front sight. Lower was gift, upper was l79 all in all I have 300 in it and I'm proud. It's my bedside AR. I'm also putting together an Aero upper and BCM lower. Aero bolt, and Warhammer charging handle. The right sales should bring her to About 1200. Still I feel like PSA is where everyone should enter as far as building and learning. You can beat them up and use them as a baseline to create what you wanna fight with.
Just like Pepperidge Farms...I remember when armalite, bushmaster & colt were the best AR companies....then, a decade later, Noveske, LaRue and lwrci were considered top tier.
@@terrarecon Only if you are going by brand name based on RUclips videos where people justify their purchase. If you’ve used most of the high end brands extensively, it is no longer subjective. Look at the piston system, the improvements of the bolt and bolt carrier that go far beyond any other manufacturer. Then look to the innovation of their 100% ambi lower receiver and then the extent gone to increase durability, reliability and finish. Sure, a person my like one brand more than another but, they are usually wrong.
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood Your original statement alone makes my point valid. You say LWRC is the best, that is your subjective position on the brand. I also think they are excellent. I do not however, think they alone are the best.
I've bought the cqb and the 16 uppers for msrp and I'm a fan.They have been reliable, they shoot with decent ammo 1.5 moa for me and they are lightweight.I have guns that are sub moa but for me these are my more enjoyable rifles to shoot.
The secondary market on KAC is insane. Helping my buddy source parts for a Mk12 mod 1 and the 12" FF RAS is super hard to find right now and the cheapest one i jave found is $1400. They do make cool shit and think they have the coolest name for a firearms company and the best roll mark.
Nothing any other $2000 and up rifle cannot do. Limited civilian availability is the only thing that makes it desirable, beyond that the mystique crashes. Plenty of other manufacturers that make the same quality rifles and actually put time into making the finish presentable. Especially if one is shelling out that much money.
$1700 for the upper however comma, -$350 for BUIS, $100 Ambi charging handle, -$100 muzzle device, -$50 H2 buffer and spring, and -$40 for pic rail section. More like $1,150 for a E3 design bolt on a KAC upper. I'd say that's a good deal
Very well said sir! I played with a buddies Knights rifles for a bit but I went with a factory HK 416. KAC is a good company that makes good rifles, I do think they are overhyped sometimes, but well worth the MSRP. I find that most people who talk about a company / rifle on internet forums have never owned or actually shot the thing they trash on. Had soooo many people tell me the 416 could only run "premium full power" ammo...I guess the dude making 2012 Tula had a monocle and top hat on or something 🤷♀
I know not everyone likes Radian because of the cost, but between the barrel and the overall design I think it’s far better than a KAC. A KAC, as you said, is pretty much a mid level AR at a high level cost. I see no reason to buy one. I can afford one, but if I’m spending that much money on an AR I’m buying something that is innovative in some way.
I was thinking of getting a knights, but then I found a DDm4a1 riii at a local gunstore for $1,200. A guy had it on consignment there and only shot around 200rds through it, but wanted money instead of the rifle.
Besides rarity, I just can’t see how a KAC or even an LMT would be worth it over an LWRC. I feel like those two brands are the literal definitions of “Diminishing Returns”
I have a KAC SR-15 and an LMT Specwar but prefer the latter. It's cheaper, the parts aren't proprietary, and it's full ambi. I love my knights' rifle but if I could only have one I'd stick with LMT.
@@songodan45 For reference I have a 14.5" SR-15 and the specwar does feel a little front-heavy for its size but it's definitely manageable. It's probably due to the heavier profile barrel on the LMT but if it's really an issue then barrel dimpling is always an option.
Amazing shoutout to Joe (Bruiser). Definitely have an amazing source in him. Id much rather grab an lmt or lwrci or adm vs a knights. Heard knights has poor customer service too so that was the kicker for me
If I’m going with the Gucci brands I’d probably go with the LMT MARS. I like KAC don’t get me wrong but I like having a standard bolt catch/release on both sides. I dont mind using the mag release button to lock the bolt back but I’d rather have the regular way of doing it and be the same on both sides. Then again I’m not kicking a KAC outta bed either😂
I honestly love blackout defense. They make SUPERB rifles and make almost every part. Also their barrels are ridiculously accurate. Also I love my LWRC.
KAC rifles are elite IMO but to see the product separation you need to be a high volume shooter. It’s very rare to hear of bolt breakage, shot out barrels as in above 1.5 MOA, gas system failures etc.
Palmetto will probably put all this companies out of business, in next 10 years. Palmetto Sabre line handled more in full auto then any other manufacturer. Biggest problem with palmetto is QC , which I believe will be fixed. But hey if Boeing cant build a decent plane , who can blame Palmetto if one gun from 5000 has canted sights.
500 rounds is all the KAC barrel can handle before it explodes. That's just sad. Even an $88 Ballistic Advantage barrel lasts longer with very similar accuracy
My KAC was broke dick and had to be returned. I sold it because the proprietary tools and lack of parts availability. I really like LMT, Radian, Cobalt and others in comparison to the KAC.
Proprietary parts are for novelty guns. Unless you go ahead and buy a half dozen of them for backup… expensive. A milspec rifle has available parts for days. They are only slightly inferior if at all, but they are relatively inexpensive. I’d rather have two milspec rifles, than one high dollar rifle with proprietary parts. You can also take that extra money and buy a quality sight, WML, sling etc. Just my opinion. Thank you for yours.
I really like KAC, I even came up with the idea of the company slogan, but I buy parts from Midway USA when they have them, or Operation Parts... I know now that if they have something in stock, from KAC buy now!
It’s more so that they are hard as hell to find or attain even if you have the money. Then to make matters worst if you need a simply part its like you’re completely out of an expensive rifle until you’re able to get the part. So for that alone its not practical the choose it unless you know someone in the company that can help you attain stuff you need. kAC is more like a company that’s geared towards contracts, the civilian market is a waste of time for them.
Ive shot my buddies knights. I have to say i was extremely unimpressed. For one, his gas wasnt actually sealed properly. Knights wants a bunch of money to fix it. With his rc2 mini, it was quite unpleasant to shoot. I have a daniel m4a1 with a hux 5.56k flow. The flow through suppressor is so much better at gas regulation than anything you can do to the gun. The most well gassed guns ive shot with normal suppressors just straight up suck compared to my m4+hux can. I work at a gun store, and in a year ive seen 2 knights guns. They are just unobtainium. The first was my buddys, and the second was a transfer. The wobble between the upper and lower on the transfer was pathetic, and both were factory kac parts. Im not one to harp on a tiny bit of play between upper and lower, but this kac rifle was the most play ive felt between any upper and lower on any ar ive held. And ive held a lot of ars. Almost comical amounts of movement. The secondary market, the lack of availability, the price, the crappy warranty and customer service, for an ar15 that for all intents and purposes shoots like any other nice ar15. I wrote off kac as a brand long ago lol.
I feel the same about the people who hate on the SCAR platform. I love my SCAR 16 and 17. I haven't shot an SR-15 or 25 yet, but someday I'll check them out. I feel there's a lot of similarities of responses SCAR and KAC owners get.
I love the KAC stuff. It is all entirely too expensive. The proprietary components are a huge NO for me! I didn't say they were bad, I just don't like being stuck with ONLY that product. Also @ Recce Randy......what companies do you think are high end? And why??
Fuck no. $288.75 MSRP for an ambi safety selector??? (Bauer Precision has them in stock right now for $274.31). And it’s a shitty ambi safety selector at that. And this has nothing to do with me not being able to afford it or not being willing to spend $2500 on a rifle, because I can, and I have… Hell, my dedicated suppressed 12.5” middy build has well north of double that into it after optics, mounts, LAM’s, the can, etc.. I just got a waaay nicer and better performing gun for my money than any SR15 I’ve shot… It’s not even close, tbh.
why I don't like Knights Armament ARs: >price >proprietary parts >gimmicks (dimpling and fluting are pointless. Accuracy International, Shilen Barrels, and Applied Ballistics all did tests showing that, at best, fluting and dimpling did not improve the heat dissipation characteristics of barrels) Modern ARs are like legos. If you do a few hours of research and labor you can build something almost as good as KAC, Radian, or any other high end manufacturer for a lot less money.
A major point in having an ar15 is parts availability and compatibility. Having a proprietary system defeats any reason for making an ar15 pattern rifle.
Knights makes cool guns, but there are other brands on the market that do things a little better than KAC. LaRue makes the same quality rifles at a lower price point. Noveske and Radian make higher quality rifles for the same price point. LMT makes the same quality rifle as KAC, but they are more modular, and H&K makes rifles that everybody else wishes they did.
Yea bcm had a rifle go 50k rounds before they did anything to it also and it’s 1500 bucks. I know people love kac and I love them also but bcm rifles are just as good
If KAC released products and didn't run their company like a limited run hype thing I would pay their prices. KAC and their fanboys is the equivalent to sneaker 'drop culture' resellers. I'm not camping out or setting up buy bots to snag at retail, and I sure as shit am not paying reseller prices. At the end of the day I go with frankenbuilds and splurge on 'gucci' barrel, BCG, trigger, and handguard. Beyond that, the AR is 'America's Rifle' mainly because anyone can assemble and change parts with literally nothing more than an armorers wrench and some time. Not to mention parts compatibility between brands. The KAC model undoes most of that.
All the same to me, its a tool, trigger time is the best investment the equipment really aint gonna be the end all be all, my work army issue M4 aint any better than my cheap AR15
Not having the capability to service your rifle in the field, if something breaks is a no go for me especially a bolt regardless of MNFG shit breaks and wears.. guess that's why I'll stay on the BCM train
"Hey guys. Recce Randy. Day 100 of owning Knights. I have resorted to eating rats, and drinking my own piss. Rifle is still sick though. One day I'll be able to buy ammo. Can't wait."
😂
Or you could just not be poor
Wonder who's fault this is?
wow, coping much?
Yeah man I’m definitely struggling out here
I'm a 21 year retired Marine & worked 11 years for Knights in Gun Assy and on the range assisting the Shooter and 30 year retired Marine ( "The Gunny"....Chuck ).....The most respected man in the plant. He shoots like an animal & has fired millions of rounds qualifying the guns marked for the military M110 SASS & other variants, as well as for the 15"s & 16's. The man knows his shit. He was a career Armor in the Marines and nobody knew the overall product like he did ,or could shoot better than he could. And best of all....He was the Best & Honest & Hardworking Man I ever knew, next to My Dad. I loved working there but had to end my stay for health reasons. We were all like family. Our hearts went into these guns but there were definitely problems in the management department which did cause QA issues through bad calls made by management & QA not communicating well with each other....They had big communication problems between QA & top management.
Could be a much greater product if QA/management problems were solved. Certain bolt carriers on the 15's were vendor made and absolute crap. They took some gunsmithing on the part of Assemblers just to get them to function....junk. Production standards were sometimes waved as a result of many out of spec parts being rejected by the Assemblers but placed back in supply by QA....Bad & useless practice....Slowed production down.
The SASS & all 308 variants are pretty awesome and reliable and so were variants of the 15's that did not use vendor parts. I also worked with their trigger man, also responsible for returned repairs....It's slow because he was the only one doing it and was our soul trigger man with tons of triggers to take care of...When he had the time for those repairs, he was very quick to respond & did excellent work....Probably the longest working man in the plant next to Reed Knight. We referred to Him as Reed's Son, since Jim was there from the old days at Vero Bch.
I miss my fellow military co workers and the job. Mike the Uppers Guy is AWESOME & A GREAT GUY. It was really fun & satisfying working with people like him. We were Family & Proud & determined to put out the Best Product we could, given the constant battle with QA waving specs & a few substandard production practices that sometimes plagued our quality due to a few who were not very good at their jobs. But I guess this happens in all big companies. Overall...I Loved Knights & it's mission for the military & especially for the AWESOME PEOPLE I worked with...Both Military & Civilian....GREAT PEOPLE. My layman's opinion, after much first hand experience with building & shooting....with regard to cost.... they are overpriced & rely more on name recognition to justify it. To me, the Propriatory stance was designed to create a "Special" status for their guns in order to create a cult following & set them apart from others. It has worked for the most part. I've owned lots of guns but never bought a Knights at even the employee discount because they are too over priced IMO.
Out of the military level Gucci brands I went LMT as opposed to KAC, simple as that. Also, right handed bolt catch is a must for me
Had an old Bushmaster XM15 as my first AR over a decade ago. I replaced it with a Lancer L15 that has a carbon fiber handguard and a right-handed blot release. I'm very happy with it 👍
i hear NZSAS ran LMT Mrp's, are they as good as an SR15 build wise?
@@swingnamiss8130LMT is fantastic. If I could find a LMT SPECWAR in stock I’d buy it in a second over a KAC CQB, and a 14.5 SR-15 e3.2 is my main squeeze.
I have a NZR MARS L, gun is fantastic
LWRC
$2500 bucks?!? Where in the HELL are you finding complete knights for that price? I'd pay that IMMEDIATELY if I found such a deal.
I’ve literally seen damaged knights uppers for around that much . I don’t get it personally, I like Griffin Armament. It’s local and obtainable.
@@kevmoful That's the same reason I've become a huge fan of lwrc. Very local and have impressed me more than my DD.
@@TerminalM193 in a 1.5 hour drive I can swing by Griffin Armament and Vortex. BCM is just up the road a ways and just passed that is Henry Arms .Just moved from Florida couldn’t find a Knights and didn’t want a Kel Tec
@@kevmoful Hell yea man! Griffin is definitely on my AR bucket list. It's probably going to be the company I go with after I finish building out my LWRC piston rifle. It's pretty much completed, just waiting on a hux can & new stock, "can't decide what stock to go with this time". BCM is also on that bucket list I spoke of but much further down the list.
Great video I have an upper but no lower so I put it on a seekins lower working fine for me thanks for your insight good stuff
So, I was a weapons mechanic In a SOF unit a few years ago. I hate working on KAC rifles and KAC parts. With the M110 program by contract we were limited to what we could work on with the M110. Every part that we could work on and replace constantly broke. We had more lemons than oranges when it came to Bolts in fact. I get it its .308, but if I have lugs breaking around a thousand rounds on a $10K rifle that people are quite literally trusting their life to that is insane. There is budget build AR-10s with higher round counts before they need to be cleaned. The biggest problem was having to send guns with the help of TACOM back to KAC for repair because we are not allowed to do a simple barrel swap. I had 6 weapons that the sniper detachment had to deploy without because it took KAC a little less than a year to get the rifles back with "new barrels" (they had been used). With the signing of the renewal of the M110 contract they had finally addressed the poor-quality metal used for the bolts. At this point I think enough people in TACOM and USSOCOM finally noticed the problem and developed a contract to replace it with HKs version. The coolest malfunction I ever saw was a range call from a team to go inspect a KAC rifle that fired without an operator pulling the trigger. This was actually pretty dope. The rifle would fire a round by itself every couple of seconds. My conclusion is KAC has a combination of high end, mid-tier, and low-end parts. That combination does not work out with tolerance stacking and key components to fail. The poor customer relationship on civilian and DOD sides speaks for itself. There are probably really good people that work there, and these things are unfortunately out of their hands. I’m just happy I never have to fix a KAC product ever again.
That is really interesting, thanks for sharing. What was your experience like working with Heckler and Koch rifles if you don't mind me asking? Did you find the HK stuff to be of better quality and reliability than the KAC stuff you worked with?
@@k7j007 with HK it honestly depends on the platform. 416 is solid. MP5s honestly don't have enough fire power to hurt themselves. The plastic frame can break and the FCG rarely does have issues but some of the springs tend to break. The G3s do see wear issues in the rollers. In terms of customer relations HK is only a little better and the CQ/QA is better.
I don’t shoot that much and proceeds to say that he shoot 10 to 12k rounds a year lol.
Lmao right. Only a cool 5-6k every year on ammo alone nbd
Fr 😂 cant imagine going through 1k rounds a month for a year and still say “i dont shoot that much”
I know people who compete regularly who are nearing the 100k rounds a year.
I guess if you shoot regularly, take classes, and do a few USPSA matches a month this is not at all un-realistic.
i never got a knights because of the proprietary parts but i also bought LmT because of theirs lol. lmt is the way to go. buy an upper and 2 barrels and your good for a looooong time
If I cant hot swap shit out or tinker, its not for me. Theres a lot of really cool stuff out there that is proprietary, but I can't accept being without my rifle for however long it takes to fix - if the company even exists any more. (not likely the case with knights but has happened to others.)
I think knights makes cool stuff and I would definitely buy one if I had enough money for it to not feel expensive. The problem I have with knights is simply that it’s too similar to a regular AR15 for me to justify it having several proprietary parts that I can’t fix myself. I would rather buy a SCAR 16 or an MCX or something else if it’s going to have proprietary parts because those guns are more different to me, and more interesting. The only exception I have with knights is the m110 with the suppressor, that’s a cool gun and I would definitely drop 30k on it right now if I had the money.
Did you have the cerakote? If so, what is the cerakote number?
I can never find a KAC upper for or on sale. It's doggy doo-doo. I was gifted an SR-15 lower, so I'm trying to complete the build. Currently, I'm running a URGI upper. Should I run an LMT upper instead?
Run what makes you happy the lmt stuff is nice as well
Run what you have man! Til it dies. Then get another upper
There's two for sale at adelbridge in San Antonio tx. A 14.5 and a 10.5. Both new. The price on the 14.5 is about 2400 before sales tax. They have a website as well.
I’ve got like less than 300 rounds on a mod 2 16 inch upper. Any interest?
I have a 14.5 mod 2 with a surefire 3 prong p/w I'd maybe part with
KAC just dislikes their customers. Put more friggin products out more than once a year. I have the mod 2 E3 14.5" on a mars-l lower and the thing is fantastic. Knights is just full of themselves. Living off their rep and military contracts from years ago. there's companies that have surpassed them yet they don't seem to understand or care. It would be nice if you could find their uppers, accessories, etc but they're fucking impossible to find for the most part unless you deal with the raping on gunbroker. LMT, Sig, FN, Daniels etc are just as good if not better, especially LMT. For the bullshit you go through with KAC, just buy other brands
@@johncharnley2877 Of course. There's globalist stooge companies in the 2A community for sure. Ukraine has zero chance of winning this fake war but send more weapons just to keep the murder / destroying machine movin baby. Profits above everything else. I stand with Russia 110% anyway so keep it up NWO bureaucrats. Sig hopefully won't be another KAC but we'll see about that
LWRC does everything KAC does but for cheaper.
@@TerminalM193LWRC is one of those better companies it appears. I do not own anything by them But their top end weapons are certainly Kac-ish price wise. I want their SMG-45 but not for 3k
@@Kipdeisel So far I've stuck with their "IC" Rifles. I have 2 ic-di & 1 piston and love them more than any other rifle I've owned. You can find amazing deals on their IC DI rifles of any size and during memorial day and black Friday/ cyber Monday you can find some insane deals on their piston builds.
@@TerminalM193 Gotcha. I'll keep my eyes open when the time comes
I sold some of my rifles to get both the 11.5 and the 14.5 KAC uppers. At this point i could not be happier. My process is if I don't shoot it has to go. But with my Knights depending on what I am doing that day, one of them is coming out. I don't get gas to the face when they are suppressed. Even though they get extra dirty due to being suppressed they just keep going. (My OCD makes me clean them often) The accuracy is unreal when I use 77gr. So I really don't have the urge to get another rifle as I am happy with what I have.
what height does your optic sit with the micro S mount
Back in the day when I was getting into the scene I had the budget and I would have bought Knights exclusively. Knights was not available so I had to go a different way.
Being in fl and able to go shop by dealers local to knights helped me alot
I can't afford it. But I handled their 110's in the Army very briefly. The quality is second to none imho. The price is high because the military buys most of their stock and the demand civilian-side is high. That means it's either a meme or it 'Just works'. From handling it and talking with guys that have used their products, it is in the latter category. At least theoretically, I think a lot of the proprietary modifications are smart. I'd say from watching gun jesus and a few other guntubers talk about their company, I also think they're the real successor to Armalite in how they do things. I just hope that they don't go Colt's route of only military. Which seemed to be the death knell for Colt's creativity and management. When that well runs dry, they better have a good backup.
Please a video update on preferences, nuances of the 2 slings Lunar Concepts & the one in video, thanks!
I’ve got a video on the two slings a couple of videos back
What's the light mount you are using to get that 12 o'clock position?
It’s the surefire pro pic rail mount
all i want to know is what the f is on the end of the handguard? is that some kinda of suppressor shroud? a shoulder thing that goes up?
Modtac suppressor cover it’s neat but kinda expensive
How do you like the Huxwrx Flow? Trying to compare them to a SilencerCo Velos.
I like the flow so far not a fan of the cleaning schedule but it is what it is I have no experience with the velos
As someone who has limited experience shooting both, the Velos sounded better to me and it was on a shorter barrel than the flow 556k.
I feel ya man! I love the Hodge guns and spent 3 years just building a 12.5 upper and just finally last week got my hands on a complete mod 1v2 lower and a mod 2 C-405 ambi lower. Now I have everything for the c-405 to make a 14.5 rig except the c-405 stripped upper. Who knows how long that will take. I plan on getting one of the Knights 11.5 rigs but who knows.
I think the 11.5 knights is the perfect rifle for what I do I would like to get a hodge in the future for more gas gun stuff seeing the legitimate gains in muzzle velocity and accuracy with the hodge stuff sells me
Check out dwilson.mfg right now has complete mod1 uppers and lowers that are 11.5. But the mod 2 stuff is way worse than finding knights stuff.
@@Recce_randy I had a 100fps difference in velocity on my 14.5 Hodge vs my 14.5 solgw.
Also b&t is going to be selling complete Hodge guns now.
Where are you seeing 1700-1800 KAC uppers? I've seen them sit in stock but they don't go below 1900ish
When I bought my stuff most uppers were 1775 and could be had decently regular at the price seems as if there has been some price changes in the last two years that I wasn’t aware of
@@Recce_randy yeah they don't do the 1776 bit anymore lol
Well that’s lame
They raised the MSRP in the last year or so but it's not super unreasonable. There are still deals to be had on the secondary market if you're patient. I wouldn't pay a dollar over MSRP for anything Knights unless you are a collector or weird.
@@computer_carnivore yeah not paying over MSRP is obvious, I'm just saying that MSRP has raised. And lowers are basically not a thing unless you buy a complete factory rifle but they're not fully ambi anyways so only hype beasts need them.
Knight's has designed and produced some cool products over the years but as far as ARs go, I've never seen any Gucci AR do anything a plain old milspec FN or Colt won't do. I just don't see any extra on-target performance that you get for the extra money.
Agreed. So long as the receivers are 7075, milspec, and handguard is a solid proven one, you throw in a quality barrel, BCG and fire control group and the differences between that and a KAC really show the diminishing returns of the KAC. I run an SLR Receiver set with JP SCS Buffer Spring, Mid Length SA Piston system, Geissele SDC flat face trigger, Criterion Barrel, Radian CH, Radian Safety Selector, B.A.D. bolt catch, BCM Mod3 grip…. It’s a Frankenstein but it’s very accurate and reliable. I’d put it up against a KAC any day. Quality parts from quality companies, tuned recoil system, etc… for about $700 less than a KAC. I’d argue a better value for what you get, but some would say the better value is the one that keeps its value, and KAC has an excellent resale value that you can’t argue with. It’s a collectors item but it’s functional and it’s quality. Performance has less to do with the price than the reputation/name IMO.
I see it the same way as Noveske or Radian’s full builds, or even just their upper builds. For Radian, before tax, Charging handle is $125 retail, Shilen barrel $480 retail, Enhanced BCG is $210 retail, Upper and handguard are $770 (even though we’re technically getting an extra charging handle buying it separately), unknown gas block and gas tube so we’ll just say $100 covers that, and a Dead Air Flash Hider at $84. So when you piece it all together, it’s about $200 less than the fully assembled upper receiver, but holy crap, $2k for an upper is absurd when LMT, PWS, Cobalt Kinetics, Daniel Defense, LWRC and CMMG exist. Sure, the proprietary handguard to receiver lock up is nice and looks cool, shiren barrels are good (although I also think they’re overpriced), but $2k for a non-adjustable DI upper? It’s prestige pricing. Higher price to give consumers the impression that it’s high value. It appeals to consumers who are interested in projecting an elevated status. Again, not to say they’re not good, but they’re not THAT good.
Curious to hear what you rifles your think are high end and why?
The spare parts thing is a deal breaker for me. It's cool that it lasts longer but everything breaks.
Very nice setup! I for one appreciate your message, so I didn't take it as a rant. My only problem is, I like too many brands, so it sucks to be on a very limited budget.
What would be higher end than a Knights?
Hey what pistol grip do you have there on the KAC
In the thumbnail i mean, it looks a bit different in the video
Reptilia
LMT>KAC
I've spent a ton of money on AR15s and guns in general and I own zero Knights guns. Reason being--it seems the civ market mostly gets guns that were rejected from their contracts. I say this because of the very pervasive issues with the finishes on KAC guns. Guns with dents and dings being shipped out to civilian customers. It's ridiculous. I own one KAC product--a 3 prong flash hider. It has a very, very noticeable burr that shouldn't have made it out of their factory but it did.
Look around online and you will see these types of issues are very common with KAC. Then, you will find their CS is extremely bad and often times they seem to want to blame the end user even when it was clearly something that made it past their QC. I don't care for expensive products with bad finishes and shitty CS. KAC is high on their own farts.
I'm not that big of a fan of Hodge but say what you will about their product(its nice, just kinda meh imo) but if you have an issue with a Hodge product you can literally get in touch with Jim himself pretty easily and he'll take care of you and I have even heard he'll spend hours on the phone just having an autistic conversation about the AR. Reed won't do that lmao.
Same. Multiple 6 figures worth of guns and own no KAC. They are the American H and K. They hate civilians and just use them to dump all their trash/contract overruns. Their fan base is in an abusive relationship and is oblivious to it.
Old friend did a preorder with them a decade or so ago and I ended up having to deal with it because he got deployed by the time they got around to actually cobbling together a civilian rifle.
It's the same with LMT
@@TriggaTrey361 I haven't heard this as much about LMT but I haven't even really looked into it so idk. They have finish issues?
@@armorers_wrench oh yea
Great video. I did not know Knight's Armament ARs are proprietary. This is not for me.
For background, I'm a gun instructor that uses these guns to train beginners and I run tens of thousands of rounds through Palmetto AR-15s every year. I need everything mil-spec with ample supply of parts so I can fix things when they break really fast.
Money is not the issue. I make money with the guns. I make more money with Palmeto's that are easy to fix.
I change the trigger groups and bolts every 8,000 rounds. The barrels are good for 22,000 rounds. If one gun happens to go down, I just picked up another cheap one and keep going.
Lots of cheap guns is more useful and profitable than a few expensive ones.
I use Glock gen 3 for the same reason.
Thanks for sharing. That is very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, Im asking out of genuine curiosity. why would the trigger groups need replacing? I understand that trigger and hammer springs wear out like any spring and would need replacing, but does the trigger shoe, hammer and disconnector also wear to the point of potential failure after so many rounds? Is it just wear on all the points of contact between the parts that could lead to reliability and or safety issues, or do parts outright fail? I apologize for the long winded reply/question but thanks in advance for your insight.
Im currently in a toss up between a kac cqb a lmt specwar and a 11.5 urgi to throw on my mars l lower. Can get the urgi for like $700 less then both of them. Not sure if it’s worth it. I can afford it but that’s a magnifier and mount for my t2. Never shot a kac or lmt before as pretty much only have had colts and bcm’s
I love my 11.5 urgi
I’ve seen plenty of contractors and such over the years . I am not one just an enthusiast. Never seen one use a knights . Noveske, colt, and Larue were the most popular back then.
The 4t pro is the best red dot ive ever run
I’ve got some great KAC stories if you’d like to hear them. I’ve worked with their CS more than one time. I’ve got some great stories and some horror stories with them.
I have a mod2 CQB, mod 2 carbine, mod1 16”, sr16 and a legacy rifle.
I had issues with the CQB mod2 and the Sr16 (wouldn’t even run out of the box). Jack was AWESOME. Some of the other people that work there were… interesting.
It's the best bolt, bolt extension, and barrel in the business. Travis Haley has gotten 80k+ rds through a gen-1 E3 bolt. That, alone, makes it top tier. Top Tier really only is LMT and KAC; only two companies that can get a bolt to last past 50k rounds with regularity.
Also, I have not met more than a handful of people who have ever broken even a garbage 9310 bolt, much less a C158 standard bolt.
What do you consider to be a high end Ar? Genuinely asking.
Hodge or cobalt
@@Recce_randyaren’t hodge and cobalt pretty much just basic ARs with really tight tolerances and well gassed?
@@Recce_randyI guess the hand guard lock up on cobalt is pretty cool but besides that, it doesn’t seem to have anything special. Am I wrong? Just interested in the nuances as to what actually makes a rifle high end.
I’d say fit and finish the hodge barrels even though I’m pretty sure they’re fn have notable increases in fps for their length and are gassed extremely well the cobalt lockup is nice and hodge pretty much has the best rails knights I would consider one of the nicest off the rack rifles but suffer the same qc and overgrazing issues as most they will always function well but the hodge and cobalt guns I’ve shot are super smooth I’d say it’s a fine line honestly
And in a world where i can get a Armalite tac16 308 ...or a tac 20 for $1299...this can never be worth it 😂
When I hear someone bash Knights I instantly think they’re either a novice or can’t afford one
thanks for the video. i liked it but please don't do the "tsschk tschk" mouth sucking thing in your next video. Did you cerakote that SR-15 or is that the factory taupe?
The proprietary crap aside at the end of the day it's all 6061, 7075 and 158 materials more than likely machined on the same machines and there's fools born every day that's willing to pay 5X for the same materials the cheaper manufacturers are using.
Kydex is Kydex, Cordura is Cordura, 7075 uppers are 7075 uppers, it's all the same except for the company logo.
Most AR15s are just that AR15s to me just a tool and they all perform the same to me my cheap AR15 shoots the same if not better than my work Army issue M4, people get to wrapped up in this instead of trigger time
PSA broke boy AR squad 🤘🏼
Whole lotta PSA gang shit. Freedom upper and mil spec lower, threw on an afg, light, and pop up rear to go with the gas block front sight. Lower was gift, upper was l79 all in all I have 300 in it and I'm proud. It's my bedside AR. I'm also putting together an Aero upper and BCM lower. Aero bolt, and Warhammer charging handle. The right sales should bring her to About 1200. Still I feel like PSA is where everyone should enter as far as building and learning. You can beat them up and use them as a baseline to create what you wanna fight with.
Hopefully Knight’s stick to their word and cater more to the civilian market moving forward with their KS-1 series of rifles.
Let’s hope
Doubt it, it'll all be blems and overruns.
Now that GWOTs over they will....until WW3 becomes kinetic 😂
I have 1.5 SR15s. I love them, but there are other great choices out there.
My MWS is actually my favorite rifle.
Just like Pepperidge Farms...I remember when armalite, bushmaster & colt were the best AR companies....then, a decade later, Noveske, LaRue and lwrci were considered top tier.
KAC upper on a BCM lower is the money move, unless you want the full KAC ambi suite.
which Brands would you consider High End ?
HK, LMT, Radian, Knights, Noveske are all pretty high end. BCM is awesome for non proprietary parts and are work horses.
LWRC. Which are the best.
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood everything is subjective.
@@terrarecon Only if you are going by brand name based on RUclips videos where people justify their purchase. If you’ve used most of the high end brands extensively, it is no longer subjective.
Look at the piston system, the improvements of the bolt and bolt carrier that go far beyond any other manufacturer. Then look to the innovation of their 100% ambi lower receiver and then the extent gone to increase durability, reliability and finish.
Sure, a person my like one brand more than another but, they are usually wrong.
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood Your original statement alone makes my point valid.
You say LWRC is the best, that is your subjective position on the brand. I also think they are excellent. I do not however, think they alone are the best.
Kac just announced they will have the rebuild kits more available to the public. Got a email from rooftop announcing it
Knights is in my home town also a McLaren dealership on the premises
I've bought the cqb and the 16 uppers for msrp and I'm a fan.They have been reliable, they shoot with decent ammo 1.5 moa for me and they are lightweight.I have guns that are sub moa but for me these are my more enjoyable rifles to shoot.
what muzzle device is that?
Huxwrx flow 556k
Proprietary tools AND proprietary parts. Both of which are nearly always sold out or not sold at all
On an AR-15
The secondary market on KAC is insane. Helping my buddy source parts for a Mk12 mod 1 and the 12" FF RAS is super hard to find right now and the cheapest one i jave found is $1400. They do make cool shit and think they have the coolest name for a firearms company and the best roll mark.
Mid tier huh? So what would you consider high tier for around the same price?
Definitely not especially if you shoot a lot, then everything becomes wear parts.
Nothing any other $2000 and up rifle cannot do. Limited civilian availability is the only thing that makes it desirable, beyond that the mystique crashes. Plenty of other manufacturers that make the same quality rifles and actually put time into making the finish presentable. Especially if one is shelling out that much money.
There are rifles for less than $2,000 that accomplish the same thing too.
$1700 for the upper however comma, -$350 for BUIS, $100 Ambi charging handle, -$100 muzzle device, -$50 H2 buffer and spring, and -$40 for pic rail section. More like $1,150 for a E3 design bolt on a KAC upper. I'd say that's a good deal
Very well said sir! I played with a buddies Knights rifles for a bit but I went with a factory HK 416. KAC is a good company that makes good rifles, I do think they are overhyped sometimes, but well worth the MSRP. I find that most people who talk about a company / rifle on internet forums have never owned or actually shot the thing they trash on. Had soooo many people tell me the 416 could only run "premium full power" ammo...I guess the dude making 2012 Tula had a monocle and top hat on or something 🤷♀
I know not everyone likes Radian because of the cost, but between the barrel and the overall design I think it’s far better than a KAC. A KAC, as you said, is pretty much a mid level AR at a high level cost. I see no reason to buy one. I can afford one, but if I’m spending that much money on an AR I’m buying something that is innovative in some way.
I was thinking of getting a knights, but then I found a DDm4a1 riii at a local gunstore for $1,200. A guy had it on consignment there and only shot around 200rds through it, but wanted money instead of the rifle.
That's a crazy price for that rifle
@EdwardSnortin for real! I couldn't pass it up. I didn't go in there to buy a gun. I went for ammo lol. I had to pull out the charge card.
Besides rarity, I just can’t see how a KAC or even an LMT would be worth it over an LWRC. I feel like those two brands are the literal definitions of “Diminishing Returns”
Field repair kit is on tacswap just put up an hour ago
I have a KAC SR-15 and an LMT Specwar but prefer the latter. It's cheaper, the parts aren't proprietary, and it's full ambi. I love my knights' rifle but if I could only have one I'd stick with LMT.
How much of a difference in weight do you feel between the too? Do you feel like the LMT is too front heavy?
@@songodan45 For reference I have a 14.5" SR-15 and the specwar does feel a little front-heavy for its size but it's definitely manageable. It's probably due to the heavier profile barrel on the LMT but if it's really an issue then barrel dimpling is always an option.
💪LMT🤳 master race
The centurion sand cutter carrier is JuSt As GoOd! 😂😂😂 but really. I love it! They’re awesome
lol that’s one of the few times I’ll agree with a just as good statement
Who I like the Centurion stuff is there sand cutter really
Never wanted one. I’ll build my own and get exactly what I want.
Never wanted one but I watch all knights armament RUclips videos lol
Amazing shoutout to Joe (Bruiser). Definitely have an amazing source in him. Id much rather grab an lmt or lwrci or adm vs a knights. Heard knights has poor customer service too so that was the kicker for me
I lived in Vero beach. Not sure I would call that out as a positive.
lol right !
IRC is not the place to be
It knights is mid end what us high end?
Hodge mainly I think the kac is a great rifle but suffers the same issues as most “duty” guns over gassed and most aren’t sub minute guns
@@Recce_randy i have some lmt and giessele and they both sub minute, with a can tho they definitely overgassed
IMO Anything with a Criterion barrel assuming its assembled properly(i.e. head spaced and bedded).
@@Recce_randy Yikes Hodge is just rebranded FN
@@boygonewhoopdataZZI HAVE FRIENDS IN THE INDUSTRY.......
If I’m going with the Gucci brands I’d probably go with the LMT MARS. I like KAC don’t get me wrong but I like having a standard bolt catch/release on both sides. I dont mind using the mag release button to lock the bolt back but I’d rather have the regular way of doing it and be the same on both sides. Then again I’m not kicking a KAC outta bed either😂
I honestly love blackout defense. They make SUPERB rifles and make almost every part. Also their barrels are ridiculously accurate. Also I love my LWRC.
KAC rifles are elite IMO but to see the product separation you need to be a high volume shooter. It’s very rare to hear of bolt breakage, shot out barrels as in above 1.5 MOA, gas system failures etc.
Palmetto will probably put all this companies out of business, in next 10 years. Palmetto Sabre line handled more in full auto then any other manufacturer. Biggest problem with palmetto is QC , which I believe will be fixed. But hey if Boeing cant build a decent plane , who can blame Palmetto if one gun from 5000 has canted sights.
I have a KAC light mount, great product,
Bro go watch the golden Webb burn down on a KAC upper that shit sucked balls😂
500 rounds is all the KAC barrel can handle before it explodes. That's just sad. Even an $88 Ballistic Advantage barrel lasts longer with very similar accuracy
How much better are these then geiselle and daniel defense? Ive seen sr15s in Iraq but never used one
Prob not much better if at all honestly.
My KAC was broke dick and had to be returned. I sold it because the proprietary tools and lack of parts availability. I really like LMT, Radian, Cobalt and others in comparison to the KAC.
Proprietary parts are for novelty guns. Unless you go ahead and buy a half dozen of them for backup… expensive. A milspec rifle has available parts for days. They are only slightly inferior if at all, but they are relatively inexpensive. I’d rather have two milspec rifles, than one high dollar rifle with proprietary parts. You can also take that extra money and buy a quality sight, WML, sling etc. Just my opinion. Thank you for yours.
I really like KAC, I even came up with the idea of the company slogan, but I buy parts from Midway USA when they have them, or Operation Parts... I know now that if they have something in stock, from KAC buy now!
It’s more so that they are hard as hell to find or attain even if you have the money. Then to make matters worst if you need a simply part its like you’re completely out of an expensive rifle until you’re able to get the part. So for that alone its not practical the choose it unless you know someone in the company that can help you attain stuff you need. kAC is more like a company that’s geared towards contracts, the civilian market is a waste of time for them.
Ive shot my buddies knights. I have to say i was extremely unimpressed. For one, his gas wasnt actually sealed properly. Knights wants a bunch of money to fix it. With his rc2 mini, it was quite unpleasant to shoot. I have a daniel m4a1 with a hux 5.56k flow. The flow through suppressor is so much better at gas regulation than anything you can do to the gun. The most well gassed guns ive shot with normal suppressors just straight up suck compared to my m4+hux can. I work at a gun store, and in a year ive seen 2 knights guns. They are just unobtainium. The first was my buddys, and the second was a transfer. The wobble between the upper and lower on the transfer was pathetic, and both were factory kac parts. Im not one to harp on a tiny bit of play between upper and lower, but this kac rifle was the most play ive felt between any upper and lower on any ar ive held. And ive held a lot of ars. Almost comical amounts of movement. The secondary market, the lack of availability, the price, the crappy warranty and customer service, for an ar15 that for all intents and purposes shoots like any other nice ar15. I wrote off kac as a brand long ago lol.
Fellow KAC FL man here. I share your sentiment.
I feel the same about the people who hate on the SCAR platform. I love my SCAR 16 and 17. I haven't shot an SR-15 or 25 yet, but someday I'll check them out. I feel there's a lot of similarities of responses SCAR and KAC owners get.
I love the KAC stuff. It is all entirely too expensive. The proprietary components are a huge NO for me! I didn't say they were bad, I just don't like being stuck with ONLY that product.
Also @ Recce Randy......what companies do you think are high end? And why??
Hodge and lmt because I’ve noticed better features and qc for the money
If I could own full auto's, it'd make more sense to me to spend KAC money. But I don't, so the benefits are essentially more negatives than positives.
Your huxwrx cleared in 50 day!?!?!?!
Was it individual or trust?
Individual
Fuck no. $288.75 MSRP for an ambi safety selector??? (Bauer Precision has them in stock right now for $274.31). And it’s a shitty ambi safety selector at that. And this has nothing to do with me not being able to afford it or not being willing to spend $2500 on a rifle, because I can, and I have… Hell, my dedicated suppressed 12.5” middy build has well north of double that into it after optics, mounts, LAM’s, the can, etc.. I just got a waaay nicer and better performing gun for my money than any SR15 I’ve shot… It’s not even close, tbh.
I agree
Man I wish I had the money to say I don't shoot much and then follow it up with saying I only shoot 10-12000 rounds a year lmao. Man I want your job
I think me, you, and Ryan Fife went hunting together at Avon Park. Are you the guy?
Yeah I’m the guy
why I don't like Knights Armament ARs:
>price
>proprietary parts
>gimmicks (dimpling and fluting are pointless. Accuracy International, Shilen Barrels, and Applied Ballistics all did tests showing that, at best, fluting and dimpling did not improve the heat dissipation characteristics of barrels)
Modern ARs are like legos. If you do a few hours of research and labor you can build something almost as good as KAC, Radian, or any other high end manufacturer for a lot less money.
A major point in having an ar15 is parts availability and compatibility. Having a proprietary system defeats any reason for making an ar15 pattern rifle.
Knights makes cool guns, but there are other brands on the market that do things a little better than KAC. LaRue makes the same quality rifles at a lower price point. Noveske and Radian make higher quality rifles for the same price point. LMT makes the same quality rifle as KAC, but they are more modular, and H&K makes rifles that everybody else wishes they did.
As with many things, there are diminishing returns. Is it better than your standard ar15? Yes. Is it worth it for most people? No
Ran 5k rounds through PSA ar15, no problems, honestly in the fire arms industry a lot of this stuff is brand name bullshit
Yea bcm had a rifle go 50k rounds before they did anything to it also and it’s 1500 bucks. I know people love kac and I love them also but bcm rifles are just as good
Hk MR556 for me. KAC is another DI AR-15.
Yeah, pay the HK tax for an inferior system.
The reason I hate KAC is because I just got a LMT and can’t afford both 😂
If KAC released products and didn't run their company like a limited run hype thing I would pay their prices. KAC and their fanboys is the equivalent to sneaker 'drop culture' resellers. I'm not camping out or setting up buy bots to snag at retail, and I sure as shit am not paying reseller prices. At the end of the day I go with frankenbuilds and splurge on 'gucci' barrel, BCG, trigger, and handguard.
Beyond that, the AR is 'America's Rifle' mainly because anyone can assemble and change parts with literally nothing more than an armorers wrench and some time. Not to mention parts compatibility between brands. The KAC model undoes most of that.
Not a KAC hater.
I just don't see the point of paying so much for a weapon that's not demonstrably superior to many other AR's sold for much less.
All the same to me, its a tool, trigger time is the best investment the equipment really aint gonna be the end all be all, my work army issue M4 aint any better than my cheap AR15
Not having the capability to service your rifle in the field, if something breaks is a no go for me especially a bolt regardless of MNFG shit breaks and wears.. guess that's why I'll stay on the BCM train