Why Didn’t They Believe Me w/ Dr. Ingrid Clayton - Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 4 апр 2023
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Dr. Ingrid Clayton's stepfather lacked empathy and would occasionally manipulate Ingrid with gifts. Brutal realizations come to light as her stepfather reveals his true feelings for her. Ingrid's toxic upbringing led her to having relationships with toxic men. Listen to part 2 of Ingrid's story and hear how she started taking steps on turning her life around, getting a PhD, writing a book, defending herself and saying no to every request from her parents.
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Guest Bio:
Ingrid Clayton, Ph.D., is a clinical psychologist and author. Her recent memoir is Believing Me: Healing from Narcissistic Abuse and Complex Trauma. She is a contributor to Psychology Today where her article, “What is Self-Gaslighting?” is considered an Essential Read. Ingrid has been interviewed for countless publications and podcasts including Women’s Health Magazine and The Healing Trauma Podcast.
Guest Information:
Ingrid Clayton’s Instagram - @ingridclaytonphd
Ingrid Clayton’s Facebook - Ingrid Clayton, PhD
Ingrid Clayton’s website - ingridclayton.com
Ingrid Clayton's Book - Believing Me
This podcast should not be used as a substitute for medical or mental health advice. Individuals are advised to seek independent medical advice, counseling, and/or therapy from a healthcare professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issue, or health inquiry, including matters discussed on this podcast.
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Narcissists are everywhere and these days it seems like everyone has at least one in their lives! Dr. Ramani Durvasula, a licensed clinical psychologist, will help you spot red flags and heal from the narcissist in your life. Every Thursday, we will hear first-hand accounts from people who know this territory the best, the survivors.
New episodes weekly on iHeartRadio.
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I would like to hear Dr. Ramani’s story.
ME TOOO!!!
Me too
Me too
ME TOOOOO
Yes, please!
Very interesting and helpful. Here I am 73 years old trying to heal.
Dr Ingrid, your story has touched me so deeply. I've been laying in bed with a pounding migraine, just paralysed and weeping as I listen.
Rewinding segments to just let myself hear you say certain things again and let me know you really did. You assign names to things I have felt and couldn't name, I actually find myself repeating some of those names, calling them out loud for fear that they might evaporate and no longer exist. Saying them so they can stay.
I feel like I can now confidently say it's all been real. The things that happened to me were not imagined, or made up. It's incredibly sad and also intensely freeing at the same time, to know it's been real.
I'm sorry so you had to go through all of this. I see a reflection of your pain in myself, I cry when I hear your voice break. And I know that if you can grow through and overcome, I can too.
I'm proud of you for coming up stronger, overcoming and using it as a healing tool for so many whom you do not even know.
Dr Ramini, I love how you emphasize the danger of holding hope in certain situations. It's a gift from God to have you here, giving people a platform to give voice to our realities. Teaching us to understand, making us see that it's possible to grow through and past it. To love and accept ourselves. Take back ourselves from our past and from our predators. Stuff that makes life literally worth living.
As you give your guests validation, as you give them respect, explanation, you give these things to me also. And it's been healing to my soul. I feel knots loosening in places deep down. I'm just in bed weeping and simultaneously grateful.
I appreciate you two brave, wonderful and intelligent ladies. Much love from Cameroon.
@mayenn2006 what a lovely sentiment and I agree. You have a gift with words, keep writing! You have a voice.
As I listen, I feel like I'm in church... Yes-ing, amen-ing, and yelling "preach it!" Oh that I could have heard this 30 years ago!! Thank you both for the truth-telling work!!
narcissists are such terrifying people
Horrifyingly so. 😢
Seriously, why do we even need to be married or have a relationship. I have been single for over 10 years and I have been the happiest 😂
That's your truth. Not everyone's.
Get a cat ❤ Trust me it makes all the difference.
This story is making my recovery, journey even more eye opening. Currently trying to leave a second (this one is covert, however) narcissistic marriage. Her story is a mirror to mine in so many ways I had to stop several times while listening to catch my breath. So glad I listened. Thank you from the bottom of my heart and solar plexus. 💛
36:06 That is sad beyond words. NARCISSISTIC ABUSE IS A CRIME!!!
Your Mom does not have the capacity to face up to the fact that her life was a lie!!!
I’m 72 now and listening to this podcast has been my story in so many ways. Add another layer of sexual abuse by a grandfather and uncle before I was 6, by babysitters and then date rapes in college. I too am a recovering alcoholic and also member of alanon. I’m looking forward to reading Ingrid’s book. ❤
You are the first person I’ve ever heard say you were abused by a grandfather and uncle. My daughter was abused by a grandfather and uncle and I feel so alone in the experience not knowing. It was only after years did I realize my dad ( her grandfather ) abused me too because I forgot the trauma for many years. My heart goes out to you. Thank you for being brave enough to just say those words
🤗🤗🤗💕💕💕
Living with my mother is like living in a yacht that is caught up in a storm every five minutes. When the yacht calmed down for like five minutes. I was always waiting for the next storm. I couldn’t keep my equilibrium. Until I learned at the age of 38 years old that I had to leave the yatch. I was never going back in that yatch over again. Five years later, she reached out to ask for money. I confronted her about her abusive behaviour. She literally played victim and blamed me and called me evil once again. I was shaken and I knew that I couldn’t do this anymore. I am not her Saviour. Peace be still. God help me navigate this world as I have three beautiful children. ❤❤
Our children are such a gift. I have two children. Being a mother has been my greatest teacher- the non negotiable things, stuff you wouldn’t even dream of thinking never mind doing- it’s like we were brainwashed as kids..
People with most empathy and compassion end up in such relationships. U could hear how she thinks abt others how much empathy she has and this was her experience.
Narcissists target empaths. I should know.
The more I hear, the more I listen, the more I learn- I am still a walking mess.
Talking about dropping hard pills to swallow. Thank you Ladies/ Doctors for your Voice & Wisdom 💚💚💚
Please don't feel you are a walking mess. Take time. Talk. Journal. Feel...it may take time to process and make progress in your healing x
@@emmas3716 Thank you so much for responding Emma. Stuff/situations/life hurts so much. And just when I thought I was getting it, just because I was strong enough to finally leave and separate from my 30 years of Marriage, and being by myself has brought so much Peace & Serenity to my brain and thoughts. Then to realize from my work environment and the drugs, homelessness, mental illnesses in the world, the healing, awareness, helping lost souls when they want it, and when we can do what we can…… is a big issue. Then to get guilt tripped not only from my Spouse from walking away, but the dumb questions from people in general and their perceptions of judgment, where I had to learn quickly to stand up for myself and speak what I believe and not what society expects me to. I don’t know, I am just so elated and thankful for this thriving community and to break free from the “snake oils” of the world, that just didn’t feel good to me, like something just ain’t right. Thanks again Emma
@@Strengtheningselffirst2 Emily, I can tell you from my own experience, (the first relationship I had, many years ago) was highly narcissistic and I was made to feel, in big ways and little ways, like nothing, and when I ended it, the guilt and shame heaped on me was overwhelming. Even to this day, people associated with him give me the cold shoulder, yet I was the one abused. And I went back for 18 months just to be abused more, just so that he could feel in control again and have the final say. I felt so ashamed of that situation for so many years, that I just buried it, and ignored the haters. But speaking out is important, it throws light on the truth and I believe helps healing all around. It's difficult though, which is why it helps to pace yourself. Maybe try with gentle reminders to your ex abuser and to those around him, exactly what went on. Not in all the details, but generally. I started just with the obvious stuff, no commitment, no ring, not living together. Good enough to sleep with for five years, but nothing else. His response was that he was just about to propose. He wasn't. He told me he didn't believe in marriage, and whenever I mentioned it, batted it away. He was a covert narcissist who needed to believe he was a good guy, and for others to believe it too. Call it out. You are stronger than you know x
@@emmas3716 Wow, Thank you for this beautiful detailed information. I can relate exactly to what you are saying, for real. I know excuses are made for the weak and incompetent according to some, but I am trying to come out of my shell as I can lose my life, no joke. But now, I don’t even care anymore and refuse to walk on eggshells just because we must protect peoples status of good doing. I don’t want to tarnish his accomplishments. But it is hard to talk about sabotage and trying to kill me and the inappropriate sex acts, with my loved ones. Thank you for the encouragement. Being a victim of child abuse was much easier and raised with no birth mother and father. But this relationship crap was insane. (Smile)
I will start back writing as you suggested journaling. ✔️✔️✔️
@@Strengtheningselffirst2 I am too a victim of sexual abuse as an adolescent. Maybe that wires us to tolerate these relationships in the first place. I fully hear what you are saying about disclosing embarrassing details like the inappropriate sex acts and violence. Have you ever tried talking in a car with someone. I know it sounds weird but sitting side by side is less intense than taking face to face. Maybe just say how it made you feel. A good tip is to say how it made you feel first rather than just straight to ' he did this ' which can sound accusatory. For instance, I felt so demeaned and objectified by him, then why and how (but only if you want to) or I felt so frightened, trapped and helpless, and then why and how. If you can talk about the shame. I started admitting, only recently, how ashamed the way I was treated made me feel. It's hard. We all have pride, as human beings, but even admitting to feeling ashamed can be so empowering, because once you do, you are giving it back to it's rightful owner ❤️🇬🇧
I just bought the book and I cannot be more related with Dr. Ingrid - My mother never believed in me too until today! I decided to walk away from her life too and the guiltless is unbearable!
Same
Lack of validation has been my life-work. Enjoyed this particular podcast. Both of my parents, which are deceased, consciously chose not to see me even while passing under the shadow of death. Why? In my opinion: they chose not to see me for standing up to them. They wanted to keep me small, invisible. As my youngest brother said to me: “you’re dead to me,” he just didn’t know that I grew up dead. Dead to myself.
Very glad you were able to stand up to your parents. They sound awful. I hope you can heal from this experience.
@@brynne77 Thank you 🙏🏽 for this validation because growing up with my family was horrible.
I definitely sympathize and you're very welcome.@@phabulous1614
Ingrid thank you so much for your honesty. It helps to see that others have gotten through to the healing side of trauma. Still struggling but mostly find hope in Dr. Ramani's podcasts.
listening to this, all I can think is wow. I identify with this. Thank you so much for this fantastic podcast. So enlightening.
I so agree...
14:16 This makes me wonder if a lot of people are compulsively documenting their lives (selfies included) to try to make themselves feel like their lives are ok ..when they're not😢
That primitive feeling that if people approve of me then that means they like me and that means I’m safe. Wrong! We’re wired to Team up and sometimes we start by seeking approval so people accept us (finally). We need to approve of ourselves and believe in ourselves first, love ourselves first. That’s hard to impossible if we come from a disapproving family of origin.
I think this is so true with a lot of people. I subconsciously wondered, but this puts my suspicion into focus.
@@karriekeller5541it’s a really good question and then the risk of social discarding at a time of vulnerability. Happens with adult bullying including workplace bullying and associated mobbing. For people of a certain age - Social Media is integral to their lives. This type of snubbing can leave them at high risk of suicide.
This is probably the most amazing podcast I have ever listened to ❤
having you two gorgeous women talking about this heartbreaking topic is so powerful. Thank you.
I also bought my own engagement ring. Because I was tired of people asking me where my ring was when I said I was engaged. 😢
So thankful for being introduced to Dr Clayton 💕
Thank you both! 🌻
Thank you so much. This has me feeling compelled to share my story , because of what Ingrid said in the beginning -- something about how she felt hesitant to share her story, even with Dr. Ramani out of concern of ... I'm not sure if not being believed, b/c of certain parts she played in this thing.... Only half way through, but it's that shame that keeps the actual survivors who have been victimized b/c of the nuanced details that victim-shaming / victim blaming enablers use to pick you apart.
Ingrid also said she presented as very articulate, and thought it made therapists or other people, friends, to think she wasn't falling apart. Just today somebody told me, "oh you're good, you're very articulate" .... I can so resonate.
Narcissism is its own animal, for sure.
Thank you so much. It's even what's kept me from participating in your healing program, though I signed up.
I have taken accountability for my past addictions, and of course it only made the complex trauma that much more complex and a seed of truth that the malignant narcissists (parents, is where it began), to justify their actions and bulldoze any boundaries, couching their behaviour in concern or love... That is not love. That is *their* insatiable obsession for power, dominance, control and complete and utter lack of empathy. I identified with their projections.
I truly believe, while my addiction was maladaptive, it kept me from taking my life. This is the fight of my life. The fight for my life. And I know not everyone makes it. My sister didn't. My aunt didn't.
These are the malignant parents that fight over a coffin. The ones that exploit you as an adult in your most tender, painful moments. The ones that triangulate and gaslight, etc. The ones that *need* someone to abuse like a person needs air.
Everyone crowds around them, while the victim suffers alone, in terror, suffocating.
Then, I saw what I could not un-see. They overplayed their hand and lost control.
And, I concluded that *I* was fundamentally defective, flawed, unlovable and all the rest. That I am somehow destined to live and die alone.
I can just resonate so much. Thank you. 🌈💛🙏
My ex narc moved a woman in with him while I was away going to court for my kids when he told me I laughed and said okay send my stuff. He gasped, it was very satisfying
😀👏👏👏
My mother was not only co-dependent, but a narcissist as was my father. She used to always say, "Ask not what your family can do for you, but what you can do for your family." It's a quote of President John F. Kennedy. What she was really attempting to convey to her children was that her children were born to care for her needs, not so much the other way around.
What an annoying rewrite of that quote!! But im sure annoying is an understatement 🙏🏻
@@annastone5624yes- another was the 10
Commandments- except without the rewrite “ Honour thy father and thy mother” 🤯
Thank you for making space for Ingrid to share her story.
This is so close to a mirror of my life. Even down to taking me out of town and my mother left to go to a funeral out of state. But it was only a day and a grooming tactic. Always flirtatious and inappropriate comments. Same age. I cut ties with my mother two years ago. I spent years pretending to like them.Every time I was kind to them, I felt betrayal to myself. Self Anger in every way. I had to leave and move away. He literally worked hard and did a smear campaign to everyone who is supposed to care about me. I even told my mother she believes him and all his lies because if she didn’t, she would have to do something about it or sit in it and hate herself. Instead the fog and spell she lives in is survival and got worse. She built him up even more. I can’t say his name or address him with the word father whatsoever. So familiar when I hear your guest voice crack trying to keep from crying when talking about her loss and grief of how painful it still is. So resonated with me when she said how incredibly hard it is to accept that this person whom you are supposed to have a deep connection with seems so unnatural. This is a gift for me today. Thank you. I don’t believe in coincidences. I’ve been working thru this the last ten years and it still pops up and affects me. I too have tried everything. I have healed a lot in self care. And the huge self care started with cutting ties. It’s taken a long time to stop feeling guilty to this day. You are taught not to put yourself first. However they do.
Yes. Completely.
We are taught not to put ourselves first yet, as you say - they do. Always !
@@NO-ib1ipyes
Why doesn't anyone point out that her mother is narcissistic, too. And her stepfather "confessed" to her because he hoped he could get her to run away with him. Love bombing her into it by describing his feeling for her as so extremely strong etc.
I'd agree, her mother is probably covert
@@bereal6590I wondered about Woody Allen and marrying Mia Farrow’s daughter. She was about 22, I think. I thought it was all extremely wrong- someone said- No- i was shocked. Then another said, Mia adopted her only, Woody was never her stepfather and he and Mia never lived together. Mia is hugely problematic and caused a fake sexual abuse story with another of her children. This story about the false allegations were also said by one of the children when they grew up. And that Mia was a nightmare. It is easy for me to believe this adult child. There is too much to lose by going out on a limb, making stuff up for the sake of it as those who never experienced dysfunctional families are thinking in very simplistic ways. That being said. Woody Allen dating and marrying his ex partners adopted daughter, who he knew from when she was a child and throughout the years of his relationship with her mother is all wrong. It is a boundary violation.
'I was endowing my mother with the capacity she didn't have', I hear that. I did the same. When it hit that she was not who I'd made up in my head in took me decades and ultimately severe illness to finally see it. I couldn't face the hurt. To anyone going through this, it does get easier, the grief does dissipate and you don't have to forgive. Just understand it, let the grief wash through you and believe me it will get better. Clarity, relief growth and self love increases. You don't need her to love you, you need to love who you are and inter does come✌
My two favorite psychologists in a Part 1 and Part 2 Podcast!!!!
11:10 oh my God in Heaven
... Me all over!!
The Being Chosen Thing!! Worthy of being committed to. Chosen.
Thank you 💜
My god her story is so similar to mine. The essentially buying my own engagement ring.. and that being a microcosm for the workings of our entire relationship and for your marriage, the being the one working when he refused to, coming home to him passed out on the couch, wishing my mom had chosen me. Her not believing my abuse, my absent father, a lot of similarities. Wow. I'm only a quarter of away through this second episode. But thank you.
I have watched Dr. Ingrid’s videos, and I have read her book. Listening to this interview, guided me to clarity about some of the treatment that My mother gave me that I couldn’t make sense of before. Thank you both so much for your insight and honesty.
Wow everyone’s stories really are the same and yet still unique
At minute 20-25 when Ingrid didn’t want to read the narc book or put a diagnosis of narcissism on the whole mess is because she did not trust herself. She did not trust hat what she really knew was real was really really the truth. I live this. I see it all and I tell the stories but then I back down from saying it’s narcissist abuse because….would anyone believe me? would my therapist think I was crazy to think I could diagnose my own situation?? I didn’t believe me. BUT now, having read her book Believing Me, I do believe me for the first time in my adult life and I’m 68. Miracle!!!
Fawner here... This is exceptionally powerful for me, and I'm overwhelmed with the relatability of her experiences. I see myself so clearly in story; the parallels are mind blowing.
Hope, even if it's just a whisper of hope, is the lifeline I'm clinging to, and i found it here.
Thank you so much...
These women are so wonderful and bring so much heart and help to others and I'm so sorry that you Ingrid have gone through this. When I was a kid, some guy wanted to touching me and said dirty things, and my mom wouldn't react. I don't want to demonize her, she was scared. Some people don't react, thinking it will solve the problem, but they are not aware that leave a bigger one. This is their nature. That's just one of the situations, many others gave me avpd and ocd - a big fear which I'm still struggling with, so I understand how much these things affect us when those closest to us, cannot provide the sense of security we desire. It changes your mind and perception, and you take on a new personality. I think that when you start looking at your sadness as something beautiful, it should be a moment when you should know that what you went through was a trauma
Their misbehavior doesn't have to dictate my value...I'm still learning. Thanks very much 😊
Excellent podcast. It's time we focused on the recipients of abuse and that narcissistic toxic parents ruin lives. Amazing how they think and will tell you they were great parents. It's psychological warfare
Thank you Thank you Thank you
❤
Holy smokes. I had my journals stolen, and my poetry re “quoted” at the dinner table. I thought I was the only person.
Wow. I so wish that Dr Ramani hears my story one day and validate me.
My thanks to Dr. Ingrid Clayton for having the courage to share in a public place about what she has gone through with the genuine concern that others out there are probable still suffering the same. You have no idea how many people that might be helping both today and in the future too.
I’ve just heard my story. 😢
This is WHY the generational trauma is hard to escape!!!!!!! This!!! Everyone is delusional and they want you to stay in la la land!
Mine stole my journals too!
Ramani,
What do I do as a mother to help the now grown children I unknowingly (at the time) abandoned after marrying the narcissist?
Please help us parents who now have understanding.
Let them know exactly this. That you have new awareness of your past and that you are ready to listen, validate, support emotionally, etc. Hugs to you ❤ Its a huge thing to admit what you just did.
@@isabellajohnson6895that is a very helpful answer and also the adult child has a very legitimate right to righteous anger, they will never get back what was taken from then as children and teenagers. A parent with genuine remorse, and a now mature outlook will accept this with compassion for their children and for themselves. They will go do the hard therapy work themselves in the appropriate space, resources dependent. In one to one therapy or through the use of on line resources including workbooks that are for managing their own emotions. So much good material is free. And work books cost little- DBT workbooks via Amazon for e.g. They will accept their children’s feelings and position and with grace and maturity not put any responsibility onto their children to accept them and forgive them and build the relationship as they are now seeing clearly.
Vulnerability is intimacy and yes we absolutely need this in our therapists. 🙏💞
It’s wonderful to hear Ingrid..
.. but also very difficult to hear of her supportive female friends and her happy ever after. Like seeing the kid twirling, but for us, being absolutely certain, we’ll get none of that.
For those of us who’ve been through the same and an awful lot more. We don’t get the house, the husband, the kid, the career - some losses and damage are almost impossible to recover from.
I still appreciate every thing she’s shared. So great and so well explained 💖🙏🏻
That hit home. I'm a survivor of childhood abuse by my father who was a functioning drug addict and alcoholic NARCISSIST. He abused me from age 3-4 to age 23 physical mentally and some sexual acts. Then mentally from age 23 to age 30. He died of a drug overdose. He still had me in his web and I was still trauma bonded to him. I had 3 kids by age 23 with a guy my father gave permission to abuse and cheat on me. My story is long and sad. I recently divorced my husband of 9 years who emotionally, spiritually and mild physical. Is there even mild physical?? I've been abused physically by others in a worse way. My husband stayed out all night multiple times and blamed me for falsely accusing him of cheating? How dare you accuse me of cheating that hurts me to my core. I was in my car drinking alone. The first time he said was a test to see if I'd worry about him and I failed miserably 😢I know in my heart he's cheated. But because I don't have facts I'm at fault. There's so many things he's done that proves infidelity. The abuse got really bad 4 years ago but I stayed as a Christian woman I truly believed God wanted me to work on our marriage. While he continued abuse I finally called the police he got arrested I have a protection order. I got the strength to leave im on disability so financially it's really hard but I have peace of mind but can't stop believing I made the wrong choice . He owes me spousal support and is begging me to go back Because he can't afford to pay all the bills alone. I said some hurtful things in our marriage as most people do in arguments. So his excuse for treating me bad was he's bitter about the hurtful things I said. This trauma bond is the most painful thing I've been through. I'm a cancer survivor and heart attack survivor from the stress. God didn't put me on this earth to be continually abused and be a punching bag because he's "stressed out " am I wrong?? As I'm typing this I'm answering my own questions. 🙌🙏😪
So relatable. I'm still picking up the pieces of my shattered life after being raised by a covert narcissist (mother) who didn't believe me when I reported sexual abuse by my older narcissist brother even though he had been sexually inappropriate with her and had just been released from jail for auto theft and sexual assault on a teenage girl. She actually said in front of the social worker, "Your brother would never do that! How could you say that about him!"
So, I left at 15 years old to get myself safe. I went to live with my long lost father, who left never to be seen when they divorced when I was two. I was hopeful. He began grooming me. He made me feel special and eventually made his move. My world imploded when he told me he was in love with me. I froze. Other adults including my stepmother and his brother knew what he was doing. His wife, my stepmother already had one foot out the door and was probably having an affair, so she took all her rage out on me. Rather than help me, I think she was relieved to have a reason to leave him for good so she could openly be with her lover. She threw us out of the house in a rage. He took me with him and presented me as his girlfriend to all of the new people we met on a two year road trip. He doctored my birth certificate and got me a fake I.D. He kept me secluded in motel rooms, his van, his cabin in the woods. He told me to wear make-up and dress older. He lost his mind one day when I was in conversation with his work friends and spoke of junior high. After that, we didn't socialize much. I was very isolated.
Later when I had gone out on my own, I was gaslighted and dismissed as crazy when I reached out to his side of the family. They knew what their brother had done but three aunts and an uncle shunned me. Not one of them offered any acceptance, understanding, or compassion. They wanted me to shut up and go away.
About a year after I told my mother what had happened, she began dating him again. It didn't last long, and I wasn't surprised at her behavior. She was a very weak, helpless woman.
So, Dr. Ingrid, thank you for sharing your story and insight. It helps to know I'm not alone. ❤
Your story us horrific. I hope it helps that you can tell it here and be 💯believed. This is very serious child abuse and neglect by 3 parents, your step mother included. You are a wonderful woman to have survived all this and i have immense respect for you. I send compassion to you and wish for you to have health, peace and safety in your life.
Thank you for helping me heal, for validating my story ... it is particularly helpful when I have to travel the timeline of my past to review and validate that what happened did indeed happen ... one day soon I won't have to remind myself that what happened happened ... one day soon I'll believe my story, my truth ... and one day soon it won't matter whether anyone else does ... a deep hug to those of you travelling this road, it's mind-numbingly difficult ... and some days you don't know if you'll make it ... but you are worth another step ... and then another ...
Glad it helped!
Definitely intentionality. Look good from the outside is most important. They know exactly what they are doing 😢
Major DARVO with her mother. Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. So sad
I bought her book a month ago, still working on it! ❤
As a survivor of childhood narcissistic abuse, this hit me hard. I also have all these experiences.
I’m in the same place but in the process of my second divorce!
And I totally understand your feeling of grieving that you may never have kids.
I had and have been feeling like that tbh. I’m 36 and it does come to me that who would want to marry as a twice divorcee and if I find someone I might be too late.
But I’m Muslim and I realised recently that there was a reason why God gave me these tests- going through the same things with two husbands. I realised that I was searching for my self worth from people and that’s why when they showed me a little bit of attention, it was enough for me to give them everything. I was craving the validation.
And now I’ve realised that God was teaching me through these tests that, it is only in pleasing Him that I will really feel worthy. And once I realised this, I stopped worrying about potentially not having children. God has a plan for me.
This is very moving to read. You are you, a Ray of God’s own light and totally enough as you are living and breathing each day. May you continue to receive this powerful comfort- the presence of God in your life.
Wow. Her comment about her partner making her buy the engagement ring. My father was a narcissist. He got my mother to buy her own engagement ring. This makes so much sense now.
I would feel the same way Ingrid. If I could help one person it would all be worth it. Even though hearing this stuff is hard it breaks through more layers and brings more understanding and sense of wholeness basically it makes it feel better. The better it gets the better it gets
Just wanted to add to the heap of people here validating and to say....YES - THIS. IS. EVERYTHING.
I've had a lifelong interest in true crime and for whatever reason, almost a month ago I decided to check out some cult info (not at all my story) and I fell into a rabbit hole that started with Mark Vicente, whch led to Ingrid's discussion with him on his podcast, as well as his discussion with Ramani. That is to say it was a "safe entry" of sorts for me into this topic because I never expected it to be personal.
Like Ingrid, I also grew up in Colorado with a narcissistic step-father and while there are of course some differences, the similarities are so remarkable!!! I had what I thought were unrelated traumas in my chidhood that I still believe were addressed in super healthy ways but this information about being in relation with a narcissit (and OMG FAWNING!) is revealing a major element that I didn't even realize was MIA from the whole picture until now. To say I'm grateful for the work you two are doing is vastly understating it and I'm feeling quite fortunate to be in a place in my life where I'm very excited about what more I can learn by reading Ingrid's book too. More than that, I'm already trying to figure out a way to gently navigate my way into sharing this VITAL info with many of the most important women in my life - you're absolutely correct in saying that it's needed and yet, not done/available to those with a need to know.
Feeling blessed with having had genuinely unconditionally loving people in my life, I'll also say that I've been feeling a lot of love and happiness for you both, knowing how awesome it is to be validated in simply being wholy yourself
WOW - really identify with this
- being articulate about my problems was seen as insight which was seen as breakthrough
’ ..but nothing was changing!! 🙏🏻
I've never been chosen. I'm ok if it doesn't happen in my lifetime. 😞
Neither have I. And I tell myself - as long as I choose myself, it's ok for now.
I am 54 years old man, learning only a few years ago about npd mother. She traumatized me. Since i could not fight my caregiver i did not cross her even though i wanted to speak up. I did not feel love from her. The best thing that i just learned from Dr Clayton is not being chosen by the narcissist. I am liking a woman that is hoovering me and discarding me. I can't get her out of my mind, even though i believe that she is a narcissist. I want her to choose me. I know that it would be a toxic relationship. I feel that CHOOSING myself will help me get over this woman. Btw...I am finally getting heathy from my traumatized life.
Very insightful of you. The attachment style gets replayed out, but knowing from our head is only part of the story. Get Pete Walker’s book healing from C PTSD. That’s the heavy sh-t put on us as kids by our caregivers. I’m at this for decades- the healing journey. I have older brothers who could never open this door. I wish you well. Pete Walker went through it all himself, in later years he trained as a therapist, he is in his 70’s now.
Thank you. And also thank you to all who comment and share stories. It really helps.
I know a young adult’s (19-21) mother who didn’t think it was a big deal that her daughter was sexually abused as a child by mother’s adult friend or a classmate. That young girl tried to commit suicide. Her grandma(her mother’s mother) invalidated her action. That young girl’s mother didn’t take any action against the abuser and is still in contact with him.Recently that young girl jumped from the window of the second floor. Broke her ribs and kore and she was now put in the mental hospital. Guess what, her mother’s mother is a highly narcissistic person. I feel more for that girl than her mother but I don’t have a direct contact with her but I feel like giving her a hug and protect her
EXCELLENT!! *I will not put myself in harms way, even if it’s not their intention* absolutely great line! Even if they have trauma etc..
Thank you for this podcast. It touched my heart and soul at so many levels. I had similar experiences throughout my life. It has opened the door further into my own healing and recovery. ❤
I see all these CPTSD people who are successful, that didn’t happen for me. I was told I was stupid my whole life by my farther and brother that I didn’t even try. I remember one time in school I actually really tried and I got 100 on a math test. I just didn’t bother with school. Later I went back and found out I was far from dumb. As far as working I can’t get along with people, most take me for a fool and use me. I have a lot of anger so they get away with things over and over and then I blow. Time to run, I became an animal because I’m so tired of getting hurt by people. Then even now people tell me over and over they want nothing to do with me but I keep trying to prove myself to them that I’m worthy of being a friend. People don’t have respect for me for some reason.
We often in our repeat our childhood relationships in effort to fix
Yeah and it is very hard to hear this. We often think we are on top of a lot.
God bless you Ingrid 🙏😢❤
They didn’t believe you because she didn’t want to believe you. It was easier to say it was a lie. But narcs don’t take responsibility for anything nothing is their fault. Deep down they must know.
This 2 part podcast will be saved and I will refer back to it whenever I need to. The nuggets of learning are incredible. I especially love the point about chemistry and how this can be a dangerous feeling for trauma survivors. Yep. I've lived through that. Now, I pray not to repeat it or to at least recognize it early when I do repeat it. Thank you from the depths of my soul for creating this episode and thank you to Ingrid for telling her story 🤗❤
Im so thankful I found this channel 💓 nobody really knows what the other person is going through 😢 💔
Dr. Ramani, have you ever considered offering monthly or quarterly virtual workshops on this material for therapists, guardians ad litems, lawyers in general, judges, teachers, school counselors, police, coaches, etc. I wonder if you couldnt get some funding to make the cost mkre accessible so that more people in power can receive some invaluable training on the dangers and enduring impacts of this type of abuse.
Very good point. There are several areas of the helping professions that are making a lot of mistakes. They just don’t get this. Or have the right information or if one has it, its not in a way they can share and therefore advocate for clients. That is if they could quote a reputable source directed at professional education.
Omg, I literally had the same experience with the book "The Body Keeps Score." I got that book over a year ago and still cannot bring myself to read it, despite feading many, many books in that period, many of them on mental health themes, a good number on abuse. I'm afraid of what I'll learn about what this really did to my body on top of everything else.
Also, I need everyone in the world to hear the part starting at 24:00 to 25:26
I stopped trying to read The Body Keeps Score There are more useful books. Babette Rothschild 7 (8?) keys to Trauma Recovery. She is interviewed on RUclips over a number of videos about this book. I hope someone sees this message!
This was so good. It is so important for us survivors to be seen and believed! Thank you Dr Ingrid and Dr Ramani.
Hi Dr Ramamani, I would like to be on your show to tell my story on dealing with a narcissist for the last 20 years of my life. We divorced 3 years ago and I think I have moved on but his irresponsibility and lack of empathy is still making my life miserable since we have 4 kids together. To this day every time I tell my story to family or friend, I just feel like the story doesn't come out a way that people from outside would even start to understand what the abuse is . May be your expertise would help me get out this frustration off my chest and help me feel a little better going forward.
I went and going through similar manners .But now I have an understanding .I always felt something g wrong with these type of people but I could not put my finger on it because of the gaslighters around me .
Thank you for this!
Amazing podcast!
Excellent. Thank YOU 🤍🤍🤍
Thank you, so helpful🙏
Glad it helped!
Truth
Why would I lie to you?
What have I gained?
I have lost all the false realities of those who cannot face the truth and broken my own heart.
The truth is painful. The path is lonely.The cost is high.
It leaves your soul weeping.
But whole.
Knowing you would turn away
possibly forever
Why would I lie to you
Except to save my soul and my sanity?
What else have I gained?
From listening to your videos I wrote this. My mother was so good at manipulating and gaslighting. No empathy. Not believed.
Well put comments. Agreed that ppl in the past confirm your feeling so u can believe yourself moving fwd.
I love how my whole life story and effects are explained without even knowing me! I am soooo reading your book Dr Clayton and I thank you so much for being so vulnerable as it has helped me incredibly!!
Thanks for supporting us!
This is amazing and has brought alot of light to my own story. I will be getting this book and seeking a trauma therapist
My relationship didn’t start with love bombing. It was down the road so becareful!
The issue i am having listening to these narcissist abuse stories is that the guest is always the victim. But what i am trying to uncover is the addiciton and the cycle that is alive inside. That i am not so much a victim but an addict. The victim is still inside. My childhood was extrenely traumatic but now as an adult i am an addict. I think identifying my addiction is more important that identifying the narcissist pattern i fall into. So like fawning is my addiction. So what do i get out of it.
Safety? Relayed abandonment? Delayed recognition of conditional love?
Unbelievable… ladies thank you from the bottom of my ❤️ !
Believing me... By Dr. Ingrid Clayton. Is that the book.
Yes. Full title Believing Me: Healing from Narcissistic Abuse and Complex Trauma
when she tells about her mother. The same thing has happenede to me. I wrote her a letter about what she has done in our family, only the good stuff...it did touched her heart i guess because she was being seen by someone. Doing everything tryimg to be perfect and just looking for new things because nothing was enough. I repeat that pattern. Until now. I just stopped.
Also when i tried to call he accountable she just said she has had a wonderful life...in total deial of the truth.
I got so mad, ungry that i just said to myself. Enough. Enougj. I have to say goodbye to this person.
So i did. Mybe it was not the vest way of doing it...i was sooo angry.
I told her she was never to see me again, that i am totally out of her life and my other progenitors life. I just say goodbye forever.
Totally acceptance that she was never going to be there and she never was. I saw she was a vicgim also and also had the hope through out all of my life that she would leave...i had that hope also when i was a child...
She never did and never will.
Radical acceptance. So painful. But now i know. And left. Finally.
Thank you for telling ypur story it was like listening to mine with different players and names...
Your courage, strength and honestly is so needed. Thank you for given the world such an amazing gift.
Always!
One of the therapists asked me about my boyfriend problem with alchool if i m sure that i did not make him to become an alchoolic . That was the last therapy session with her. Vlad(ex boyfriend) had an alcoholic father , a history in his family and he also drinks even today, 20 years later ,therefore, I am not the cause of his alcoholism.my luck that intuition saved me several times from the hands of these therapists who, in fact, don t want you evolve out of the trauma but will keep you in their chair to make money off of you with the help of guilt. Sad but real .I am a little desperate that in my city, i cannot find a good therapist on this traumas because i have the same as Ingrid and I don t see a way out .,I am trying for over 15 years and not very much result .Thank you very much for this podcast ,at list , I know that I am not alone and crazy in this shithole
This convo is so helpful. Thank you
My Dad died in July...I finally told him all the stuff she did, even though he was basically in a coma.
I saw some of this in the Mormon Church
IT IS A CHOICE.
Wow! Pattern is eerily similar to me. Now in my mid 30s thinking I’m a failure to break the generational curse/rewrite the narrative. Coerced then abandoned into being a single mom among other irreparable damages. Struggling with what’s the point when it’s all ultimately meant and done nothing good
FWIW, I also share many similarities and through my work on other traumas in my life, I did arrive to a point of knowing it's really not about being "broken." Instead, I see it as a lifelong practice or process of acknowledgement or awareness and integration. As in, this happened to me, that's why I respond to certain things in these ways and so I should question that response whenever I see it arise. My responses to things are not irreparable but they are a part of me that I need to remain aware of and take up the opportunity to explore other ways to navigate this life whenever possible, so I can create new narratives and practice new means. To be extra clear, I don't see it as a point of arrival at all either but truly a lifelong, custom-made process that I wil certainly not always be perfect in but I can always improve upon, if I keep at it.
Thank you for you're videos and podcasts I am receiving validation through you
20:16 Q: did any therapist mention the framework of narcissism/Ingrid didn’t read narcissism book or listen to audiobook; why?
20:43 A: when you know that you’re going to discover something that you’ve been aware of for so long you don’t want to experience knowing and feeling you spent so much time in a space where you weren’t living the life you know you needed and desperately wanted. The guilt of knowing you could of changed earlier on and self blame. Yet it is so difficult to move in that space because it’s like sinking in quicksand. And how can I be clinically educated and treating people who have trauma while not being able to myself? My thoughts on this and how I feel
Thank you.
Million thanks for this video. I am listening it for the second time. :)